2025 NFL Week 9 Early Games Preview

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Jourdan Rodrigue and Patrick Claybon to preview the early window of Week 9 action starting with the Vikings at the Lions (01:50) followed by Colts at Steelers (10:25), Broncos at Texans (17:10), Bears at Bengals (24:45), Falcons at Patriots (32:15), 49ers at Giants (40:15), Panthers at Packers (46:47), and Chargers at Titans (54:04).

Note: time codes approximate. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're ready to have a
dialogue about a conversation. I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the
Chris Wesleyan podcast studio with Patrick Claibahn and Jordan Rodrieg.
It's Preview Day.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
That's Preview Day.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
What is that dialogue going to be about? Patrick?

Speaker 2 (00:22):
That dialogue, that conversation is going to be about the
conversation and dialogue that leads to the farcical nature of
the MVP of world. And I think we should start
that dialogue on Sunday.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Greg, Okay, So that's a good tease, Yeah, where we
start deciding who is in the conversation and then yes,
boot them out while a little early.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
While also highlighting how, you know, insane of an idea
that is, but we need to do it.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
My thing, it was more in terms of the conversations,
like everyone can't be part of the conversations. Also, so
early it is meaningless. Let's like see what's up around
ten or eleven or twelve weeks. But this show, I
try to make it a democracy. So I think we
should have this. We should have this show starting on
some I'm into it.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
I love a conversation, but not a full show, just
to see if Patrick we're geeking out over all the
all the ways we could have said conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
There's a lot. There's a lot of people that would
be in it. We'll talk about a lot of them
today if you weren't with us last week. We changed
the game and we broke it up between early games
and then late games and primetime games, and it was
a popular change. So it is sticky. Yeah, And I
gotta say, for once, the early I think the early

(01:36):
slate is better overall. It's it's pretty spicy. This week,
it's best one we've had in a few weeks.

Speaker 4 (01:40):
I think they're all beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
We had a statistically significant number of blowouts last week,
so hopefully of the early and late do look better
than they did in a weekend. Let's get to the
beginning here, the Minnesota Vikings with JJ McCarthy going on
the road to take on the Detroit Lions and that
legion of whom in the second I love that nickname.
The Lion's favored by eight and a half points, the

(02:03):
over under is forty eight, and have Kevin Burkhart and
Tom Brady will be there to see this game. How
the Vikings look with JJ Gregg.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
That's an impossible question to answer. I listened to Kevin
O'Connell on the way into work. I thought he was
not reflective exactly, but much more understanding with the media
in terms of all their questions of what happened to
Carson Wentz. And you know he's ready to move forward.
The problem is the maybe number one story of the

(02:34):
season is the Lion's defense. I actually think it might
be the most important thing we learned in the entire
first eight weeks of the season, and that the Lions
defense looks super Bowl worthy in a way that I
didn't expect. And this week I tried to dive deep
and like figure it out with the numbers and players
and every and I don't think there's that much like
special sauce to it other than basics, like they have

(02:56):
the fewest penalties in the league, for instance, they are
one of the best tackling teams in the league, so
they're pretty mid range in terms of blitz. Obviously, Aiden Hutchinson,
who became the richest according to guarantees non quarterback in
the NFL on Wednesday, is a huge, huge part of it,
as as big a difference maker as you could ever

(03:16):
hope for coming off of an injury. But other than that,
I think it's just like good fundamental play. And maybe
I should have led with hutch because that's a big deal,
signing that big of a contract this early in the
contract because he had a year and a half left
to go.

Speaker 3 (03:29):
Yeah, it's incredible the amount of money the Detroit Lions have,
not all of it guaranteed, but have.

Speaker 4 (03:35):
At least dedicated to their core of this team.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
It's almost a billion dollars, and I just think it
shows again when they believe in their guys and Brad
Holmes he signs guys this way, he drafts this way.
When they believe in their guys, they go all in
on their core. And I just think that not only
is this really a cool thing for Adon Hutchinson after
everything he came back from injury wise, and you could

(03:59):
tell so much of what he's done this year has
been so emotional for him in returning, especially playing at
home in front of those fans who you've.

Speaker 4 (04:08):
Mentioned this before.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
Greg are an extension of that defense in a big
way and are legitimately a factor in an edge. It
just all this energy in this group feeds off of
each other, and I think having that emotional lift and
then that commitment to Aiden Hutchinson says a lot about
where this team is.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
Would we have a Defensive Player of the Year conversation
as part of this because I feel like he's in
the conversation. But why am I doing it now?

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Well, yeah, you're doing it the part we got him.
The most important part of the conversation that we were
going to have is to highlight the absurdity of it. Okay,
but I also think about the Aiden Hutchinson deal is
a signal to a lot of players and teams around
the league that it's not against the rules to do this,
Like you can sign the guy and it's not violating
some sort of prime directive. I understand that people are

(04:53):
reluctant to give money early on, but you can save
yourself from consternation and drama and maybe.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
Trust, so you can do it during the season. Wasn't
that the whole thing the Bengals, Well, they don't. They
don't like negotiating during the seasons, Like why not.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
What else are you doing? These guys have to play
football during the season.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
They're busy. Okay, that's a conversation.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
You can have how much money would you like to make? Oh?
This much? Okay, here's this, But I think right when
looking back at what Kelvin Shepherd in this defense have
done in the past few weeks, like maybe I don't know, Like,
am I looking at Jake Browning a little bit differently
after what the Lions did to him? Like is it
Baker falling off? Or was that just this this Lion's

(05:29):
defense causing all sorts of problems to a hurt team,
Like they continue to do this and I'm worried because
the now I'm doing it too. The JJ McCarthy conversation
has just been this ever last oh Carson Wentz been
How bad is JJ McCarty, Like, let let the guys
start a few games, but now he has to do
it against this defense that has so many different looks
that's so good in man coverage where I'm I'm concerned.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
And they're getting healthier too. Terry On Arnold was back
fully practicing. Avante Maddox was also back with you know,
he's play starter snaps for them. Taylor Decker is expected
to play. Brian Branch is back from suspension, and they
say is even more motivated than ever. I know you're
excited about that, not so sure about Kirby Joseph, but

(06:13):
either way, overall, good news for the Lions defense and what, yeah,
is going to be tricky. We'll see how the Vikings
are up front. Brian O'Neil, Christen Darisa weren't out there
when we last saw them, and Ryan Kelly will be
out for this game, still on injured reserve, and that's
a huge problem if they don't have their guys back.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
Yeah, the Lions can rush for and have all season,
and certainly it's being more effective than ever, especially with
Aiden Hutchinson playing at this level. And it also has
allowed them, to your point, Greg, to play more man
coverage even as decimated as they were and getting healthier now,
but as decimated as they were in the secondary.

Speaker 4 (06:50):
To me, that's first of all.

Speaker 3 (06:51):
That's players buying in and obviously players go out and
execute and.

Speaker 4 (06:54):
Do all of that.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
But that's really good coaching to me too, is being
able to stay that aggressive of not having to take
your foot off the gas pedal and play outside of
your specific identity. That's good coaching. That's player by and
and Kelvin Shephard is do an incredible job. I think
it's one of the hardest places for a quarterback to
play in general. And then this is a rookie who's

(07:15):
had a second year player but might as well be
a rookie who's had one outstanding gamer quarter right, and
then has been really up and down otherwise and coming
off a high ankle sprain and coming off a lot
of drama around the team and the flip flopping of
the quarterback, and there's not someone behind Max Brosner to

(07:35):
even be an emergency quarterback.

Speaker 4 (07:37):
I mean, it's it is.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
The stakes are extremely high for JJ McCarthy in this game,
for Kevin O'Connell, and for the entire team building infrastructure of.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
What they did sign your boy. Though the wolf Pack
is back, the wolf Pack is John Wolford, let's go.
But Kevin O'Connell did say it's going to be Brosmer
as the backup.

Speaker 4 (07:53):
That's true.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
I did I actually miss that. That's awesome new. I
think that's great. Bane and John Wolford are very similar people.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
They're back together again, and reading between the lines, it
does sound like Darrisatt and O'Neill could be back for
this game. The problem with darricize. And this is why
it's such a gift that in Hutchinson is playing so well.
Is he hasn't looked all the way back necessarily, He's
been struggling to get through games, maybe not who he
is exactly, and they need everything to get This is
as tough a matchup as possible because Dan Campbell kind

(08:22):
of owns Kevin O'Connor. Oh, it's a problem when when
you're in a division against a team that you can't beat.
And the Lions have won this game five straight times,
including one time where it was during that late season
surge where the Lions were climbing out from under five
hundred and the Vikings were very good that year. They
beat them then too, and they've swept them the last
couple of years. Most of the games have been close.
It was not close if you remember in Week eighteen

(08:43):
last year in a big spot. And I think it's
partly because Jared goff in this offense picks on the
middle of the field, and the Vikings defense, which does
so many things, hasn't really slowed down Jared goff in
this running game over the year.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, still blitzing at a very very high rate, but
in terms of generating pressure when they blitz. They're number
twelve there and we're used to seeing them the top
two or three, And you start to wonder, like, is
this like veteran defense with Brian Flores where they have
all these different looks. Have have people gotten enough looks
at it at this point with this particular group of players,

(09:17):
or you know, is age making its way into the
circumstances where you start to wonder, here's here's the week
for it. Yeah, eight and a half point favorites for
the Lion.

Speaker 4 (09:30):
Think part of it.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
They're allowing so many explosive plays upfront on defense, the
explosive run plays. Specifically, they invested in this defensive line
and we mentioned this, We talked about this a couple
of weeks ago.

Speaker 4 (09:40):
This is a problem.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
The Lions are not only explosive in the run game,
but they're fast in the run game. This is if
they can run the ball effectively against this Vikings group,
they are in trouble.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah. One last note on those contracts from our expert
producer slash former researcher Drew Christensen. The Lion have made
twenty two contract extension since twenty twenty four. One of
only two teams that have more than fifteen them and
the Texans are far and away the teams that have

(10:11):
locked up a young corps for the long term more
than anyone. And yeah, some huge money deals in there.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
Congratulations again to eight hutches and well deserved a great
comeback season for the Edge in Detroit. Let's go to
another comeback team. The Indianapolis Colts are three point favorites
on the road at Pittsburgh the over under his fifty
and a half iron Eagle and JJ Watt. They're on
the calls. Steelers coming off of a loss in the
Rogers revenge game, Dimes in Company just coming off of

(10:42):
still being good, Jordan, another win for Dimes and company.

Speaker 4 (10:45):
Do you feel yes?

Speaker 3 (10:48):
First, first, and foremost Yes, Thank you Yoda, because do
you feel when do you feel? That's the conversation, because
the Colts offense is a freaking wagon and the Steelers
the defense is old and slow, and they're allowing a
lot of mistackles and they're not containing, and they're not
make creating plays, and they can't rush the quarterback and

(11:08):
they can't you know, it's all these things that we
expected them to do. Greg, I'm ranting on your behalf
because I know you got a good rant out earlier
this week about the Steelers defense and the amount of
money committed to it, which is absolutely astounding relative to
its production. This is a mismatch game all over the field.

Speaker 4 (11:24):
You need You need.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
Probably Jalen Ramsey's best game as a slot defender to
combat not only Tyler Warren as a mismatch in the
passing game, but also Jonathan Taylor in the run game
and how they can use him not just running it
right up the gut or some of these middle and
outside zone runs, but also if they start to use
him in the screen game as a catch and run player,

(11:47):
understanding that the Steelers have been vulnerable in preventing explosives
that way.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
I do think it's a big time mismatch when the
Colts have the ball and we'll get to the Steelers,
who you know, I'm not just chalking this up as
a win necessarily oh for the Colts, But when the
Colts do have the ball, it just feels like one
of the most dynamic offenses in the league. And by dynamic,
I mean it's just so flexible and can change on
a play to play, snap to snap series, the series

(12:11):
basim versus one of the most inflexible defenses in the league,
and so that that's a problem. And the offensive line
for the Colts, who's just been maybe the best in
the league. It is a big time like step up,
Steelers up Front type of game, especially in the running
game like show show who you are, because there are
great players there and I'm I can't wait to watch

(12:33):
this game. I might I might have to take this game.
Might have to take this You should take it.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
Okay, watch watch that beloved Steelers defense that you enjoy
seeing going on with Daniel Jones. Because three players in
the Super Bowl era have had one hundred passer rating
in each of their first eight games of the season.
One of them is Daniel Jones. Any guesses on who
Kurt Warner No.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
Two MVP seasons, two mv he seasons exactly, Yeah, Lamar Jackson,
no Rogers, Aaron Rodgers he said.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
In twenty eleven, and Tom Brady in two thousand and seven.
That's the type of company that Dons has right now.
And I'm sorry to mister Jones for doubting you at
the start of the sea. I will apologize every week
if I have to because he's been so good, especially
on the run and the Steelers defenses. You guys have
both noted like the athleticisms has started to become an issue.

(13:26):
And if Tucker Craft had that game, I cannot imagine
what Tyler Warren does against the Sea.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
They can breaks out the good stuff. For Tyler Warren.
I feel like when he's at home and he's just like,
you know, got a glass, yeah exactly, and he's all right,
what do I really it's always for Warren. It's like
Warren's great, but like every time he.

Speaker 4 (13:43):
Catches Evolve in a massage chair.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah, there's like twenty five yards of space. It's amazing.

Speaker 4 (13:47):
It's incredible.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
And I you're watching, if you're Shane Steichen in that
offensive staff, and if you're Daniel Jones, and if you're
Tyler Warren, you are watching what Tucker Craft did and
you are just licking your chops at the point because
it is copyable now. I know. There was a lot
of back and forth among Packers fans and Steelers fans
earlier in the week about oh, you know Jordan Love

(14:09):
and he was just getting the ball and it was
yak plays and talker Okay, fine, great, great love that
love that for him awesome. Daniel Jones can do the
same thing, should do the same thing, and and similar
to what Jordan Love did when he was throwing the
ball down the field, He's got guys who can go
up and get it on the perimeter as well, so
they're going to attack space and particularly I thought, Greg
you brought a really good point earlier this week.

Speaker 4 (14:30):
Yes, when you were ranting about the Steelers.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Let's go. That's a win for me. We don't have
like games, so that's the most I can get you. Uh.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
You did make a good point when you were talking
about how well other teams seem to know Mike Tomlin's
defensive rules and how inflexible it's been in terms of changing.
There are some coaches who can get away with that
because their dudes are better than your dudes. Robert Salah
is a great example of this. He a lot of
a lot of coaches. Offensive coaches know his defensive rules
because he's been coaching so long. But his dudes are

(14:59):
usually gonna play better than your dudes are often going
to play better than your dudes. Mike Tomlin's been able
to get away with this But if you know somebody's
defensive rules and you are an offensive minded coach, you
can start exploiting space and using those rules against them,
and you can scheme up mismatches and you can start
explore exploiting all of the voids on the field where

(15:19):
you know they aren't going to be because the rules
of the defense dictate they don't cover certain things in
certain ways where their drops aren't yadep or their you know,
their rushes are a certain way. This is such a
mismatch game from the playbook onto the field in terms
of the Colts offense and the Steelers defense. And I
would like to see more from the Steelers defense. They
do have, dudes.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
I feel like we're walking into a trap too. It
told they're going to play well. And one of the
reasons why I think they have a real chance in
this game is can the Steelers push around the Colts
defense a little bit. I think the path is there.
You look beneath the hood on some of the Colts
defensive numbers, and they struggle to get off the field.
They are actually dead last in the entire and fl

(16:00):
in plays per drive allowed, which is it's an odd
stat exactly and They've made it work with good red
zone defense and with a lot of turnovers, and DeForest
Buckner is playing outstanding right now. He's on a heater.
They also got Kenny Moore back a couple of weeks ago.
They are a different defense when Kenny Moore is out there,
So that's all helpful. But I think that the recipe

(16:23):
to beat them would be to lean on them up front.
And who better to lean on them with than Darnel
Washington and this big front and a pretty good offense.
Jalen Warren, like Jonathan Taylor put him in the you
know as he as the All Pro. Jalen Warren might
be a Pro Bowl running back right now, and so
I think the Steelers could go on some long drives
and maybe they just need to finish him a little bit.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
I agree, Jalen Warren is a Pro Bowl running back
right now. He is in the Pro Bowl.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
Greg, He's in the Pro Bowl.

Speaker 3 (16:50):
Conversation, We're gonna wear this out before we ever get
to this.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
It's only so we have to do some work on
this show. Let's get to a team coming off of
a win at home, they will have to go on
the road. The Denver Broncos just beat Dallas. Now they
go two. Who are the Houston Texans. They're at home,
but they're one and a half point favorites fresh off
of causing Mac Jones all kinds of problems on Sunday.

(17:18):
The over under is thirty nine and a half points.
Kevin Coogler and Mouse Johnston on the call, Greg, which
version of the Texans will play on this football game?

Speaker 1 (17:26):
See? I want this game too, I expect until I
see otherwise.

Speaker 4 (17:31):
Remember the show is a democracy patch.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
No, I mean I can't. I'm not gonna take them both.
They're the two of the better ones early, so you
can't have them all. Gotta spread it around. I guess
I gotta trust that the Texans offense from the first
six weeks and all of last season is closer to
what we'll see because of the opponent I keep talking about,
Like so much of especially defensive ratings, I think are

(17:58):
based on who you've played, Hello, Carolina Panthers. Like I
have to see it. Houston stand up against a really
good four men pass rush and a really creative, you know,
blitz package and everything. There's a reason why the Broncos
have not just the most pressure in the league in
terms of percentage, I think it's forty six percent. No

(18:19):
one else is even over forty Like they are far
and away the best, and they're not blitzing as quite
as much as they used to, and so I think
the route for them to win this game is to
keep improving in terms of their running game in Woody
marks that has looked better, the extra offensive lineman, and
just win a defensive game. I mean, that's how this
team is built, and I think they could potentially do

(18:40):
it that way.

Speaker 3 (18:41):
Using what he marks in the passing game as well.
They haven't had a ton of trust in him early on.
Picking up some of those protections and some of that
pressure that you have to do as a running back
is pretty tough to do as a as a young player.
But he's gaining confidence there and he had a big
catch and run that It was one of their few
explosive plays they've had all season, and it really kicked

(19:02):
off and opened the floodgates for the Texans offense last week.
None of this matters. Nothing matters on either side of
the ball for either team. If the Broncos cannot get pressure,
which I believe they will against the Texans, and everything
for the Texans offense to actually look like it did
last week, hinges on how much pressure they are allowing.

Speaker 4 (19:23):
CJ.

Speaker 3 (19:23):
Stroud was only pressured six times last week, and it
was not good pressure. They didn't they they barely hit him.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
And yet it was when I watched that game I
felt worse about them actually because I was like, man,
they had to make some incredible plays because it came
down to me CJ hitting see I disagree, difficult throws
and a ton of mistackles like Braxton Barrios just in
the first drive alone, like making diving plays, making out
standing individual plays where yes, they set it up with

(19:51):
like but that's last week. I don't think there's almost
any carryover to it. Anyways, I actually.

Speaker 3 (19:56):
Disagree with you because they got some of their timing
offense going to and c J. Strou was able to
throw in rhythm and on time. Now that is something
that bodes well for the future. And yes, they had
to make low probability plays.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
Especially Shana missed tackles and like breaking through players.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
Yeah, especially with that receivers group that they're not quite
all used to each other yet you know, they were
trying to go for Yak plays against a pretty embattled
forty nineers, event they won't be able to do the
same thing against this Broncos defense, even without has certain
this is a really, really talented defense. And so to me,
I did see enough of the Texans to offense to

(20:33):
build on, especially because like I mentioned, they were able
to get that timing and that rhythm passing game going.
And yes, some of the downfield shots especially, and some
of the low probability plays that were made, they were there,
they were open, they were schemed to be made, and
in the first half c J. Straud did miss a
couple of those throws and he hit him in the
second half, So I do think that that's a big factor.

(20:56):
But again he wasn't pressured, so that that's the hinge
point for all of it.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
And that's the difference in this Texans offense because it's
a lot like like both offenses in Texas in the
State of Texas, right, Dak's going to have those low
completion percentage throws that he's had for years, and CJ.
Shroud also does that as well. Where you've it's the
way that the offensive structure and the way the quarterback
plays where they take those chances when they get clean
pockets to throw from, except the variance there when Dak

(21:24):
has you know, things are a little muddy, he can
still be successful, not like he was against the Denver
Broncos where things went absolutely left, and that was for
an offense that was playing well. And now you're asking
this Texans line where it's like there's been two through
three games this year where CJ looks great and he's
you know, arms cross celebrating as guys going the end
zone and everything looks good. But when things do get difficult,

(21:48):
the offense completely falls apart. And it's kind of what
I expect to have.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
But so does bow Knicks. That's the good thing. Okay,
so bow Knicks this year against pressure, Now he faces
the least amount of pressure in the league, like last
week for CJ was every week for bow Knicks, and
that's key, but by far the least amount of pressure.
And that's partly because of the scheme too. It gets
the ball out of his hands.

Speaker 4 (22:08):
Bring line.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
But he's got a great line and it's a big
test for Garrett Bowles, and you know, on the right side,
like Will Anderson and Daniel Hunter just have to have
you know, a massive game when bo Nicks is pressured.
Only two quarterbacks in the league have a lower yards
per attempt than bo Knicks, and that's Jake Browning who's
long gone, and Russell Wilson, who's long gone. They still

(22:29):
barely qualify in terms of these stats. So if you
can get pressure on bow Knicks, it just hasn't worked
this year. He's coming off his best game of the
season far like they they should feel confident, but that
was a game. Again he's proven in this scheme with
all the weapons that they have, that he'll he'll make
it happen against this Texans defense though, like they're a

(22:51):
defense first team, Like Will Anderson wants to be in
a conversation at the end of the year, by the way,
you know, like these are the types of games they
just have to be absolutely special and just shout them.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
I think what's something that doesn't bode well for the
way that this I almost said Saints, but the way
that this Broncos offense kind of operates, especially with bo
Nix and Sehn Payton as collaborators here, and it's probably
I think a benefit for the Texans defense with how
aggressive they play and how frequently they are able to
make plays on the ball. Is he's throwing short of

(23:21):
the sticks on over half of his third downs. And
this Texans defense, they jump routes, They're super sticky and
aggressive in coverage, and they will play tighter than you
want to be played right and good point. And I
just think that that's a huge swing point of this
of this game because the Texans have had to score
points on defense to win some of these games because

(23:42):
the offense has looked so bad in spurts and flashes.
So I do think that this is where one of
the hinge points.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
Is looking forward to Jalen Petrie. Maybe I'll pro right now,
would he be your best nickel in the NFL? He
might be my choice.

Speaker 4 (23:57):
I can have a conversation.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
Yeah, we absolutely. I'm looking forward to this one. Nico
Collins should be back, and so they're kind of figuring
out what there. I think offense is gonna look like.
I think it's gonna be a lot of Jalen Noel,
a lot of Nico. You got Xavier Hutchinson, maybe a
little you know less of Jade Higgins and Woody Marx
in the mix. They got a chance. I'm looking forward
to this one. Let's take a break, and yes, we

(24:20):
got more good games in the early slate. For once
the early slate came through. Back at NFL Daily, I
just feel like the air has been let out of
the Bengals balloon over the last handful of days. But
you know what, as we learned with that Pittsburgh win,

(24:43):
like it just takes one win to just flip it
right back around. The question though with this Bengals Bears
game is will Joe Flacco be available? I didn't realize
that was going to be such a serious question. But
let's listen to Zach Taylor talking about Joe Flacco's injury.

Speaker 5 (25:01):
He wants to play in the game, and so kudos
to him. Man, he's been here three weeks. He wants
to play. I hetees speaking for him, but that's what
he's told me. We'll have to work through the week
to see if that's that's able to do that. It's
a throwing shoulder, it's painful. Does he need I mean,
you've seen, you've seen what he's done. Came in played
on a Thursday, you know, after three days of practice.

(25:22):
So I think if anybody, if anybody in this league
can get by with minimal reps right now, it's it's
it's him.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
It's an acy joint brain in his throwing arm. We've
seen quarterbacks have those over the years. It's tricky. At
another point, Zach Taylor said it would be fifty to
fifty if Flacco played.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
Fifty to fifty and and that's a's this point on Wednesday, Well,
he wants to play, and our friends at spot Track
or spow Treck note in that contract that's seventy five
K for every win that Joe Flacco starts. So I
would I would want to play as well against the
Chicago Bears, who are three point favorites. Jordan against Joe
Flacco's Cincinnati Bengals, the over under is fifty one and

(25:59):
a half. He is out of Archiletta. There for the call.
Are we going to see a better version of the
Chicago Bears offense against the defense that has been rough?

Speaker 3 (26:10):
And the sky would be falling in Chicago if you know,
it's that market if they don't see a better or
at least a more complete and consistent version of this offense,
because we see it in spurts and fits that this
offense really can be something and can do something. This
Bengals defense, it either implodes right away or it's a
slow implosion that is sort of happening over the course

(26:32):
of a game like it did last week. And I
would really expect the Bear the Bears to play better
than they have or at least more consistently, because I
think the ideas are there and I think the players
know what they're supposed to do. The penalties keep setting
them back. They are leading the league in penalties and
penalty yards against them, and I think it's it all
starts with running the ball. Yes, by the way, you

(26:54):
can run the ball against the Cincinnati Bengals defense, because
they are averaging. Not just they're not just one of
the words in terms of yards allowed in the NFL.
They're also allowing themselves to be blocked out of the
play on yards before contact at the sixth highest frequency
in the NFL right now, which is not good.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
I'm surprised it's not higher that that tape last week.
I finally got to it watching that Bengals Jets game.
That was a game that is part of a season
that gets an entire regime fired. That was a fiasco.
If that had been like a primetime game. It was crazy.
And they're playing these two linebackers, rookies Barrett Carter and

(27:34):
Demetrius Knight at linebacker and it is just not going well.

Speaker 4 (27:38):
Yeah, they've benched a couple of guys.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
I mean, but there they don't have any choices like
they bench Logan Wilson. He came back in and he struggled.
Those two guys are out there basically every snap and
they are getting picked on. And I think Ben Johnson
and this Bears offense can be good at like targeting
a weakness on the opposing team and you don't have
to worry about the pass rush because Trey Hendrickson still hurt.
Shamar Stewart I went and checked, does not have a

(28:01):
QB hit or a sack this year. I think he
has three total pressures. There's just there's leaks everywhere. But
to me, it's like coaching and lack of talent, like
it's it's all bad.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
And we see the coaching increase. When we've discussed Ben
Johnson and what this Bears team has done since the bye,
they have fourteen explosive runs since the that's far and
away the most in the NFL. And that since week five,
the one hundred and eighty three rushing yards a game,
and considering what Breeze Hall and Davis the backup did

(28:33):
against this Bengals defense last week, it's just hard to
not see a scenario where Chicago scores a whole lot
of points in this matchup.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
The recipe is that Joe Flacco plays close to what
he's played lately, which is incredible. By the way, I
can't believe how well he's playing. I think people are
getting a little loss. It's like, oh, Joe Flacco, like,
you know, he's turning back to the playing this one.
Did he play this well normally?

Speaker 2 (28:59):
Never played this like other than the hottest streak in
postseason history.

Speaker 4 (29:03):
It's a it's those solo dinners man.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
Really, at the very least, he is at his level
where he was during the peak of his career, which
is incredible. He was fantastic last week. Their offense is
kind of a wagon right now in terms of rushing
success rate inefficiency. They've been one of the best teams
in the league the last three weeks out of nowhere
after being the worst team in the league. So that

(29:27):
this Bears defense has its share of problems and start
the clock. I don't know if we have a sound
effect or anything. CD Deuce is back in the league,
chimes Gardner Johnson, So.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Are we starting the clock for him and DA to
have a very passionate conversation.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
I love that they're back together. Strange bedfall fellows Dennis
Allen who once traded you know John C. Gardner Johnson.

Speaker 3 (29:52):
Because but that's the thing, that's his pattern. He goes
back to teams and people that know him. He cycles
through these different defensive coaches and teammates that know him well,
and then you start the clock.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
It's all had relationships that like had to end, but man,
there was a lot of good stuff to it. So
so you come back back.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
Slide break in case of safety emergency, and then you
go to the Super Bowl. Oddly enough, like that's all right,
that's the method or C.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
I could I don't know if I could see that happening,
but I could see like the Bengals really doing well
if lack of plays because it's been a little lost
that the Bears are down their top three cornerbacks. Kyler
Gordon was put back on injured reserve. Jalen Johnson has
been out like they have major injuries. My last I
just did want to point out it is a revenge game. Quietly,

(30:40):
do you remember how Zach Taylor got in the league,
Like people would get on him a little bit because
he was friends with sem No, Mike Sherman's son in law.
That's how Yeah, he was Mike Sherman's son in law.
He was on that team, and then Mike Sherman was
at Texas A and m and Zach Taylor brought him
to Miami. This was a little highlighted because he was
on hard knocks and everything, and he ended up being

(31:02):
the quarterbacks coach with the Dolphins for a long time.
You know who was his assistant quarterbacks coach who he
elevated over and became the offensive coordinator, Ben Johnson. So
it's like, Ben Johnson, you were just handed everything on
a silver spoon. I'm going to take it out on you,
Zach Taylor.

Speaker 4 (31:18):
You know what's kind of wild.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
I'm probably friends he wasn't.

Speaker 4 (31:21):
I would.

Speaker 3 (31:22):
I mean, it's seeming a lot of people are friends
with Zach Taylor. But it's interesting because it wasn't a burn.
I think it's it wasn't a burn.

Speaker 4 (31:30):
I think it's true.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
I think it's kind of like a sneaky way to
explain his career though, just people like him know that
Faylor Jordan has the high ground.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
I was like, I recall back to I don't think
this was about him, but Ben Johnson's opening press conference
when he took the job. He's like, I basically want
to beat all the NEPO babies in the league. That's paraphrasing,
that's basically what he.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
Said, zeroed in, target locked on Zach Taylor. The Bears
are going to score fifty points. Let's go run it
up Dan Campbell's style. Let's get to another you know,
talking about Super Bowl contenders.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
Yeah, the Atlanta.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
Falcons, no not them, are on the road at the
New England Patriots. Greg rosents All the Patriots are favored
by five and a half points. The over under is
forty four and a half. We do think Michael Pennock's
general will be back, hopefully for Falcons fans. It was
not the best cousins outing Andrew Catalan, our good friend
Charles Davis and Jason mccordy. Are there can anything slow

(32:28):
down the New England Patriots of twenty twenty five, Greg, Yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
Think this Falcons defense has shown that they can cook
up specific game plans that'll confuse you, and the offensive
line communication for the Patriots hasn't been great. Drake May,
I think is taking the fifth most amount of pressure
in the league, which you.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
Know, did those numbers go up because they played arguably
the one of the top three defensive players.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
Of our era last They certainly went up. And actually,
the Falcons have been continuing to blitz a ton all
season and it's kind of stopped working the last couple
of weeks. They really have not been able to pressure
either the forty nine ers or the Miami Dolphins. So
do the Patriots have like a good short game type
of answer? Because I really thought Raheem Morris got out

(33:13):
coached a little bit by what to and Mike McDaniel
wanted to do last week. That isn't really Drake May's game.
He likes to hold the ball a little bit, He
likes to invite that pressure before he tries to make
a play.

Speaker 3 (33:25):
Yeah, I think this could be a pretty cool another
pretty cool Drake May game. I want to ask you
your opinion. Actually, you're more plugged in I think to that, well,
certainly to that team but also to that market. I
think in some of the reporting out there, Ramandri Stevenson
was not a practice on Wednesday. Oh so kind of
wondering what your instant reaction to that is.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
Well, it wouldn't be anything until I saw the report
that the Patriots are looking for running back help from
Mike Reese at ESPN in the trade market. They wanted
edge help and running back help, and I'm thinking, I mean,
they're pretty Ramandri and Trevia Henderson. You would think that
would not be a primary position.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
So I didn't know if there was like an injury
that we hadn't seen, or something that hadn't that hadn't
been reported yet, or if you've heard of anything, or
if maybe he's on the block. I mean, I don't
know if they're But then that report kind of He's
been playing well though, yeah, and but that report kind
of counteracts it. They seem to want to put Travion
Henderson on the field a little bit more, which I
agree with.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
And he played great until then he lost the fumble
right at the end of that game. So I was thinking,
he's a.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
Patriots game without a lot of right, although it's becoming
a tradition.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
I was thinking that was a big step forward from him.
Last week he had some good pass pro reps. But
like my my most obvious reason I'm a Patriots fan
is that I checked that Trayvon Henderson pass bro reps
every week, and uh, I do want to play more obvious.
I'm just saying it is.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
The pass per reps are are a little bit sick.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
Because I wanted to see him like on the field,
and there's only it's very easy to do. There's like
seven of them every week, and they had been going
poorly and they went great last week. They made a
couple of traits. We should we should do the news
portion of the show. Uh. Kean White, a second round
pick who threw two weeks last year. I believe it
was leading the NFL in sacks little known stat. I
think four sacks through two weeks last week. Last year.

(35:08):
Was traded to San Francisco and Kyle Duggar, their safety
who got a huge contract almost immediately after their supposed
personnel chief, Elliott Wolf arrived in New England. Was traded
to the Steelers, both of them essentially for nothing for
sixth and seventh round pick swaps. So just they moved

(35:28):
up one round from the seven to the sixth. It
was basically they just gave them away. So there's two
former Patriots on that Steelers safety group, with Jabill Peppers
who started out the season there too. I don't know,
it's weird. It is weird to be Sellers just giving
away guys.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
While you're leading the division.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
Where it's Keon White. I get he was down to
being a healthy scratch and I think it was something
where he was not. He was passed by Kate Calebon
Chase on in camp and it just didn't seem like
that was working with Mike Brabel. Kyle Dugar, by all accounts,
was like accepted his demotion. He was out there for
fifteen to twenty. So they have like two safeties on
the roster. I don't get it. They're just getting rid
of all the Belichick guys. White for Marcus Jones.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
White had four sacks in those games you mentioned, Yeah,
in the other thirty two he has two.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, he's a guy who who's a pretty good interior rusher.
I love that trade for the forty nine ers. I
mean it probably only has like a thirty percent chance
of mattering that much, but if you use him as
an interior rusher, he could be fun. We should get
back to this game. Should we give the Falcons any
chance here at responding? Because I really do they seem
like a four and four type of team, you know,

(36:37):
is how I picked games. Sometimes I gotta say, the Patriots,
what are they right now? Six and two? They seem
more like a six and three. Well, I just forgot
if they had a buyer or not. This does seem
like a game to pick the Falcons just for that,
because they seem like a four and four team and
the Patriots seem more like a six and three team.
How about that.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
They're just so frustrating to me because they are so mercurial,
and you see an identity start to emerge from them
one week and then it's completely gone or easily sniffed
out by the opponent. Or they're beating their heads against
a wall trying to do the same things and getting
the same results and not adjusting or evolving the potential

(37:18):
of this defense, especially relative to expectation, is great. The
potential of this offense is great. This Atlanta Falcons team
is not meeting its potential regularly, and I think that's
very concerning and I don't I don't know if I
would pick them in any game moving forward. They're gonna
win some games, but I don't trust I don't trust
this team.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
Well, they're power hitting on both sides, and there's high
variants with that blitz rate and also with the number
of plays where they're stretching guys out trying to get
Beijon to break six tackles, are relying on Kyle Pits
in the flat to get past guys, and you know
seeing Pinnicks fire those slants in to Drake London where

(37:57):
you know the ball could go the other way or
Drake London could take it. It's it's just a high
variance team where the outcomes could be any number of things.
Like if you just watched the game in Charlotte, the
game last week against the Dolphins, you think this is
one of the worst teams in the NFL. Then we
see them against the Bills, the defense in that performance
against the Minnesota Vikings where it's like okay, like there

(38:18):
are the Falcons are a coin flip.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
And then he was Zach Robinson was asked about it
this week about like our defense is showing you things
You're not ready for and he said, we've actually been
seeing simpler looks than we've been anticipating. What an insult, which.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
Makes it find the mirror on that.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
One, but maybe kind of an insult to his players
is like more frustrating for everybody knowing, hey, we can
own these looks, we can anticipate what coming, what's coming,
but we just have to get it cleaned up. Drake
London is expected to be back at practice. They're also
talking about that. Darnel Mooney's kind of hasn't been himself
all the way back from his injury, but they think
this week now he's he's ramped up and he's ready

(38:53):
to go. Michael Pennix is expected to take the majority
of snaps, so that's a good sign. On the other hand,
they're like it on paper, it's a mismatch when the
Falcons are running the ball, which doesn't make sense. The
Patriots efens is built to stop the run. They're playing
bass defense. They're very good stopping the run. They should
be vulnerable against the pass. But the Falcons haven't been
very good running the ball. They're below average with Bijon

(39:14):
Robinson running the ball twentieth and rushing Dvoa.

Speaker 4 (39:16):
Yeah it drives me nuts. Yeah, it drives me absolutely nuts.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
This is We did a segment earlier this week about
things were haunted by and I almost knew I was
gonna get too mad if I brought up the Falcons
sort of wasting this Beajon Robinson season all. You know,
I just I can't stand it. It drives me absolutely nuts.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
Now, you got to go against Chris Tanga. I'm not
sure how you you were give him a contract.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
You were feeling like persnicketty this week. Greg, you could
give me this game and that would piss me off.
But I kind of want to watch it also, but.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
I would give it to you, give it to you.

Speaker 4 (39:47):
I hate watch it. Although I love what the Patriots are.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
Doing right now, hate watching the Falcons because they drive
Jordan nuts. It drives me nuts. Also, the punchline to
one of my favorite Pirate jokes will tell you one day.
The the San Francisco forty nine ers are on the road.
They're favored by two and a half points at the
New York Giants. The over unders forty eight and a half.
Kevin Harlan and Trent Green are on the call, and

(40:13):
it is a it's a sad one because we love
what Camps Kataboo was doing. The Giants not only have
lost Camps Kataboo, the league neighbors the injuries becoming a
whole lot. But they've still got Jackson Dark against a
forty nine ers defense and offense. Greg that had a
weird performance in Houston, still favorite about two and a half.
How do you see this one going?

Speaker 1 (40:33):
Yeah, I was watching that game and wondering, like, is
their offensive line becoming a problem. Maybe it's the matchup
that'll that'll happen, but they've had people in and out
of the lineup. Colton mckivitz was really struggling in that game.
And you know when they try to pass the ball
in this game, you do worry about that against this

(40:54):
Giants front. But then the answer to that is pretty simple,
just don't pass the ball, and just I know you
at some point, but this is the worst running defense
in the league by far. Like the gap between the
Giants and thirty first is pretty wide right now, so
it could be a CMC get right.

Speaker 3 (41:12):
I know you were like shocked about the Bengal statistic
that they weren't lower and I was like that, did
you forget about the Giants.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
They're one of the worst run defenses of the last
twenty years, at least right now they are.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
Yeah, yeah, And I also think that this is another
game where to mitigate the pass rush that the Giants
do still have available to them. You get the ball
out quickly, especially to a mismatch player such as Christian
McCaffrey in the screen game and in the little quick
outs in the flat, and you ask their defenders to
come and tackle, which they don't do well, especially in

(41:43):
the second and third level of the defense. They are
they've been so just rolling through these these corners and
trying different things. They're undermanned there. This front is still
a strength in terms of the pass rush for the Giants.
I know that there's some weird I don't want to
say weird because it's but reporting about maybe Keveon Thibodeau

(42:03):
ahead of the trade deadline and just uncertainty throughout the
entire group, and that's that doesn't bode well either, especially
when you're coming off of just like the gut punch
of losing a player who truly boyd the the entire team.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
Clearly, Skataboo is wheeling around the facility on Wednesday. According
to Brian, he can't get hard.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
Do you think it is to keep that guy in
the chair honestly, like har do.

Speaker 4 (42:27):
You think it would be?

Speaker 2 (42:28):
Yeah, that will be. The hard thing is making sure
that he, you know, adheres to the timeline and doesn't
try to go to bananas during this bounce back. But
that was it was nasty to see, but it was
great to see, you know, his teammates helping him off
the field and the fans in Philly applauding him off
the field as well. And yet the Thibodeau conversation which

(42:48):
Mike Garifolo came out and reported that you know, the
team says they have no intention of trading kve On Tipodau.
I think that would be a great time Greg to
do what the Lions did. If you want to keep
him so much, go ahead and go ahead and lock
it up.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
Yeah, I don't think that's happening. There's so many injuries
on this team. You really feel for the Giants. So
Jermaine Iluminor, who's been great as a peck strain, he's
not practicing.

Speaker 4 (43:11):
He did tell reporters he's going to play this week.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
So that's a great sign, but it's much less certain
looking negative for cord Ale Flat, who's in the concussion protocol.
Been their best cornerback. Paulson Adebo is still out of practice.
There are other big money cornerback and so like man,
that's just weakness on weakness, giant giants every o. The

(43:34):
forty nine ers need to win here.

Speaker 4 (43:35):
Yeah they do.

Speaker 3 (43:36):
They're still yeh, white baby, They're still creaking back to health.
Rock Purty may Or may not play. Kyle Shannon said
it was not a long shot. Now, Cynthia I think
puts it well in a much more succinct way than
I do. But it's really hard sometimes to tell how
truthful Kyle Shanahan.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
Is because I'm the lion liar who lies. But she
has a personal relationship with him and somehow can get
away with that, I believe.

Speaker 4 (44:00):
I think she's also a badass.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
So oh, either way, that's for sure.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
Yeah, so and then and then also it's you know,
no Brandon Nyuk, which is another problem. They're just they're
so decimated in terms of guys who catch the ball
for them that I do think this is it sort
of sets up nicely to play to what's a current
what a current team strength is. Help the line dig
in a little bit more. Don't have them pass setting
all the time they were. They had a new center,

(44:26):
They've had new centers in and out. Trent Williams looked
banged up as well against Houston. So you can solve
a lot of problems at once here and sort of
get your your team dug in a little bit more
if you just run the ball.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
And I'm wondering if it, you know, if it was
a game plan thing because the CMC volume had been
so high, if Kyle was trying to restrict CMC touches
last week. You have to go back to like twenty
twenty one Panthers for CMC to have less than eight
carries in three catches and three targets, I believe against
the Houston Texans. So maybe more a little more Christian

(44:58):
McCaffrey in this one.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah, And they just need their defense to get off
the field. Like I think this could be a good
Jackson Dart fantasy type of game. And Jackson Dart has
kind of replaced. Look, Drake may is still like he's
all that matters in New England and that that's.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
The case, and in Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
I kind of feel like for this time of year,
the rest of the season, Jackson Darts all that mattered
in all that matters for the Giants, and I've been
really impressed. He's been better than I would have expected.
And if he continues along this path, it's going to
be like a successful season in my mind for the
Giants if Jackson, if they feel like they found a
real franchise.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
Court, successful enough to save save the jobs.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
I think so. I think if Jackson Dart plays well
the rest of the year, it makes sense to keep
Brian Dable. That's my opinion.

Speaker 4 (45:46):
I think that well.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
I think what what also keeps Brian Dable and Joe
Shane is the fact that they've got Jackson Dart. You've
seen enough from him at this point to I think
sort of temper ownership a little bit.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
Yeah, you got you gotta keep it going. That's why,
That's why it's all that matters. We got eight or
nine weeks to go. But the forty nine Ers have
the worst pressure rate of any team in the entire NFL,
so he could be protected. Well, let's take one more
break where we wrap up the early games of Week nine.
The official midpoint of the season is after Monday Night football.

(46:19):
Actually nine eighteen divide it by nine.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Oh yeah, good.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
Well, back on NFL Daily and noticing looking at this
next game, we're going to talk about that. G Reg
been on a lot of Panthers games this year, just
kind of like Spirodidas is the designated Bengals guy. I
think they're just staying in Cincinnati, Spire Adidas and friends.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
Yeah, why don't we keep it so many and we'll
go to Jordan Rodrigue, a pre Alta Panthers at the
Green Bay Packers, who are favored Jordan by thirteen and
a half points. The over under is forty four and
a half. Aforementioned g Reg and Adam Amin are on
the call. The only thing I think that matters in
this game is Bryce gonna play, and so I feel

(47:13):
like that number is way too high.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
I think he's gonna play. Took all the first team
reps this week of practice so far that a little
good news, bad news sitch happening in Carolina. The good
news is they have determined that Rico Dowdell, to my
understanding of kind of the reports out of camp or
out of practice, will be the lead back. They're not
going to go with this very on again, off again

(47:38):
two back system, frustrating that really I think limited the
maximum potential of each running back. They're a week too
late of doing this, because the bad news here is
that they are missing multiple offensive linemen as they go
against the best pure pass rusher in football, maybe ever
in Micah Parsons and all so a very stout Packers front. Oh,

(48:02):
they already were missing Brady Christensen he had the ACL
or at the scunity Achilles Taylor Moten is questionable, he's
been their stalwart right tackle forever. And Cade Mays will
not be available. So this is not a great week.
Never a great week to be missing your line, but
having a quarterback coming back from an ankle injury and
also facing the Green Bay Packers defensive front.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
That's why that number isn't that crazy. And it's one
thing I've learned from Cynthia's model over the years, and
I don't think it's all that different from some of
the computer models that create these numbers. Is offensive line
injuries really make the number move, so that that could
be a factor, and I think it's baking into something
that I've thought about, which is. I don't think this

(48:43):
Panthers team is much better than they have been the
last few years. Like they've found a way to win
games against bad teams, and I think that's great, and
I think long term, like we're going to be able
to evaluate them. But when they play one of the
best teams in the league, like the Packers are in
and maybe like the Bills were, you know, last week,

(49:03):
I think they're pretty overmatched. They's still like a bottom
six or seventeen in terms of like just total talent.
But it'll be good if Brice is back.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
Well, yeah, it will be just in terms of the
way that the Carolina Panthers have been successful is moving
the ball, running the ball successfully having key fourth down
conversions in all of those wins to an extent that
I think managing to get that thirteen and a half
point gap becomes a little bit different because of the
time involved and the Packers propensity to run the ball

(49:31):
as well as the reason. Again, I'm not confident that
the Panthers would win the game. I just the number
feels like it's tilted a little bit more, especially when
the Packers one of the more willing to run teams.
Despite the way that they can be explosive in the
past game they stay committed to it. Josh Jacobs has
been very effective in the run game and the Panthers, honestly,

(49:53):
you know, we celebrated the growth and the shift and
the ability to stop the run. The Bills exposed one
thing with with the gaps, and it was not fixed
over the course of the game. James Cook would still
be running if not for the end zone being the
limit to where the plays is.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
I do think about that sequence in the offseason where
they thought they were getting Milton Williams and they ended
up signing to Shawn Wharton sort of as a consolation
price and gave him a lot of money. And he's
struggled so far for the Panther so that that change
has not worked. And yet you're going up against the
quarterback who, more than any other is asking the people

(50:30):
in this room why am I not on quarterback Island? Exactly?

Speaker 2 (50:33):
I am not asking me.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
I'm first in the NFL conversation and EPA for dropping back. Jordan.
Just keep it up and you can join your other
Jordan's soon enough.

Speaker 4 (50:43):
I know, man, how fun was that to watch?

Speaker 3 (50:45):
I just I keep thinking about what Tucker Craft just did,
and what Jordan Loved just did, and how well they're
running the ball, And I think about Tucker Craft in
a mismatch situation against like say Christian rose Boom, for example,
and some of these defensive backs who have played really
well at times but also are not really have not

(51:08):
really been huge factors in run support either or catch
and run support. I think the middle of the field
is going to be wide open all day for Matt
Lafleur to try to exploit and maximize this momentum that
they have with this tight end that seems to be
now turning into the volume one on this team the

(51:28):
way we thought maybe a receiver would.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
I regretted on Sunday night not making even a bigger
deal of what Tucker Craft just a complis because the
numbers are crazy, so let's just give him his love.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
Now.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
The third most YAK yards after catch in a game
by any tight end since two thousand and six, according
to Jacob Gibbs on Twitter, and this season, you know,
the most YAK per catch of anyone in the league,
the most overall. Like he is, that dude, But I
think part of that and I guess i'd have to
go back and really watch it. But I think part

(51:59):
of this offense becoming whole is Christian Watson. He looked
great in his first game back, and he offers something
no one else on that Packers team does. I think
he really changes the upside of this entire offense.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
Yeah, on all of the levels, right, because you see
Christian Watson in the way that these Packers receivers kind
of get siloed into certain roles and he legitimately fills
all of them in different spots where when they're all there,
because I know the fantasy evaluation of the Packers is
generally it's frustrating. We don't know where the targets are

(52:32):
going when Christian Watson is there, right, The targets are
going to Christian Watt like it. It is a constant thing.
And we saw him with a great block to spring
a touchdown as well, and I think right charting guys
in their path back from injuries, like, yes, it was
a devastating injury and it's going to take time for
him to be one hundred percent fully back, just like

(52:53):
it did with Tucker Craft last year. He was still contributing,
but now we see like when Tucker Craft is fully healthy.
How different things can be like with a full off
season to be able to come at these things so.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
Not man, he looked back, he looks so fast. It's
I guess you don't you never know. Yeah, but sometimes
the guys come back and they're clear, like Christian Diresow
right now, we mentioned just Trevon Diggs when he came back,
like you kind of don't know until you see them
on the field. And Watson. Maybe it's because if you
take ten percent off Pete Christian Watson, he's still the
fastest guy on the.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
Field, the very explosive, big fast player and the what
what did I say?

Speaker 4 (53:31):
You just have away with the words. I'm sorry. I
just like how you describe things.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Yeah, he's a large person who runs fast and to contrast.

Speaker 4 (53:44):
That big guy run fast ross Tucker's game.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
No, sorry, no, let's go over to the Tennessee Titans
where they are facing off. If Greg Rosenthal likes past
blocking reps, might I introduce him to the starting running
for the Los Angeles Chargers the past few weeks. Oh
Bannie Adell out of Troy University. The Chargers are eight

(54:07):
and a half point favorites on the road against the
Tennessee Titans. The over under is forty three and a half.
The aforementioned Ross Tucker, along with Tom McCarthy calling this game, Greg,
where we started to see things go right for the Chargers.
Are you back on yes?

Speaker 3 (54:23):
That?

Speaker 2 (54:23):
Oh that was hesitance? Was it not?

Speaker 1 (54:26):
Well?

Speaker 4 (54:27):
It was he took bread.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
WHOA they're gonna get. I think they're going to get
to their by at six and three, and they're coming
off statistically their best performance of the Jim Harbaugh era
on offense. And I think you saw just the energy
that they played with on defense and some of the
things Khalil Max said leading into the week and the
injury that he played with that he is a force

(54:51):
multiplier for that defense. So I still have questions there.
But when Herbo is scrambling like that, and he is
been as effective as any scrambler in the league right now,
they should. They just should be a better red zone team,
which is almost their number one problem as a team
this year is being better in the red zone. And
that was like a great red zone performance, So I'm

(55:12):
hoping that reverts to the mean.

Speaker 3 (55:14):
I don't really correlate people's personal lives, especially I don't
like to do this with players people's personal lives correlating
to their play on the field.

Speaker 4 (55:23):
I don't think the two are adjacent.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
I think that football players who play at a professional
level are expert compartmentalizers and they can be a pro
and all of that regardless of what's happening in their
personal life.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
But oh, but took to week nine. What we want
to step on your point. Let's go.

Speaker 4 (55:46):
Justin Herbert's out of the house.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
Yeah, okay, okay, Justin Herbert's.

Speaker 4 (55:50):
Out of the house and in the wild.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
He's at Dodgers games, he's at Lakers games, he's with
he's I think he's dating Madison Beer.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
He's at Halloween parties. Yes, she's the common factor of
all these.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
But he's got confidence and you know what, Like he's
always been an incredible player, but you're seeing this, You're
seeing more zest for life out of Justin Herbert when
he's on the football field. And like, listen, I don't
think the two are necessarily one and one correlated. But
I love this for him. I love all of it
for him. His play on the field. I mean, he's
got he's got a little like zing to him, A

(56:22):
little bit more. He's pointing on first downs, he's running more.
He's really like lifting what this team can do when
he does. And off the field, he's getting outside. He's outside,
he's out and about. I think good for him.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
Yeah, I was saying nine weeks so we got to
the Madison.

Speaker 4 (56:37):
Ye, I was like, what's the trap?

Speaker 1 (56:40):
I'm super familiar with, you know before this.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
But I do think winning has a little bit to
do with with all of those things. Not necessarily that.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
Because I think it doesn't have to be the cause,
but they can be correlated.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
Because I'm sure Justin had left the house prior to being.

Speaker 3 (56:55):
No famously famously never left the house like famously famously.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
He's like Davant, he has the taco bell.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Inside of the house. I do think it makes us
more likely to see him not at the house, considering
his relationship status. But it's it's a it's a better team,
I think, a better version of the team that's getting healthier.
I was not kidding about Kamani Vadel in past protection
where he was like a little portable offensive lineman out
there where, considering like the issues that Bradley Boseman the

(57:26):
bad you know, it's something that they needed. And as
when Justin Herbert is making so many plays out on
the edge, it's almost like he feels more uncomfortable within
the pocket where he's not sure Yeah, out of the house,
out of the pocket. The correlations are all there, it's
all connecting. Whois Kaiser so saying where? I think, like

(57:49):
we've just seen what a breakout for Rondez guests in
the second everything is happening out outside for Justin Herbert
and company. I would like to see the operation inside
a little more succinct for long term, but if it's
working out there, it's working.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Joe All being back is the number one thing that, oh,
it's incredible. Transforms this team and maybe even more in
the running game than as a pass protection, but certainly both.

Speaker 4 (58:13):
I think it's two things.

Speaker 3 (58:14):
One, yes, having Joe All back incredible, But I think
really the transformation that you're seeing is a combination of
Joe All being back and also Ronde Gadson emerging as
a true double threat tight end so they can stay
in these heavy personnels that.

Speaker 4 (58:27):
They love to use.

Speaker 3 (58:28):
You can be in twelve the entire game if you want,
because you're getting the ability to block the way you
want to for Kamani Vidal in the run game, and
you're also able to disguise some of your passing looks,
and you're funneling a lot of those that passing volume
through the tight end who you can keep on the
field for every down.

Speaker 4 (58:46):
It's so valuable.

Speaker 3 (58:47):
It's so valuable to have that guy thriving for this
offense and for Justin Herbert, and in tandem with one
of the best offensive linemen in the NFL and Joe
All already in his young career. It's just I I'm
back in, like I believe the Chargers.

Speaker 4 (59:02):
I was worried about.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
The best team in the NFL.

Speaker 3 (59:04):
I was worried about him for a while. I still
want to see more consistency out of this defense. I
believe that can come along too, especially getting a game
like this could give them a good opportunity to get
some of them confidence back.

Speaker 4 (59:15):
I didn't say momentum confidence back.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
Winning streak.

Speaker 3 (59:18):
Yes, yeah, but I just I think I'm back yeah
on the Chargers, I am so.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
This should be, you know, a matchup. They should feel
comfortable on defense. I will say, though, that was a
very good cam Ward game last week that I don't
think not enough people saw he threw a late interception
or he threw one interception that was like that he
would like to have back. But other than that, I
thought it was his best game as a pro, very composed.

(59:43):
I think they found two dudes in too, Mary d
k and alec I o'manner. Now they might be like
a two and a three or two like whatever, but
you just found two good NFL players. And then, my god,
I feel like I'm doing a bad job because not
enough people hit me, like up on social or anything
to ask me, did you see that Tase Spears game?

(01:00:05):
Because my god, Taji Spears talk about coming back from
an injury and back with the juice. He looked incredible
last week, and that's one of the better now that
Spears is back in, moving like that running back tandems
in the league. So I actually feel like there's a
little bit of positivity there. I know it didn't show
up exactly in the box score, and the defense keeps
trading away good players and wasn't very good to begin with,

(01:00:27):
so that part of the it's bad. But I do
kind of like the difference of cam Ward the last
two weeks since they made the coaching.

Speaker 3 (01:00:33):
I think they're gonna be more of a handful for
the Chargers defense than people expect them to be. I
think they'll make it competitive, especially early in the game. Ultimately,
I think the Chargers take this.

Speaker 4 (01:00:42):
Easily, but I do.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
I like the way cam Ward has been playing, and
you at least see the vision right Like I said
a couple of weeks ago, they're trying stuff. They're seeing
what's gonna work with this team moving forward, what kind
of identity they want from.

Speaker 4 (01:00:53):
Their new coach.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Meanwhile, they asked defensive coordinator Denard Wilson about the trade
of Roger McCreary to the Rams, and he was just like, yeah,
you know, we started with with Roger McCreery and Brownlee
and Lagarious Sneed and now Sneed's on IR and the
other two are playing with other teams and those were
good players. And I was just like, oh, that was
about as like, hey, why are you doing this to me?

(01:01:16):
Guys like we're trying to win over here. Good luck
to the Titans this week, good luck to everyone playing
in the early slate. We have one more preview show.
We're going to go through all the late games in
the primetime games, so just click over to that one
right now wherever you are