2025 Week 12 Recap: No One Takes the Points

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to NFL Daily, where we love a little free football.
I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the Chris Westling podcast studio,
and I'm with Patrick Claybon with all the claymates listening,
both of you. I'm with Nick Shook with all the
shook ones out there. And yes, this week twelve recap

(00:28):
is for all the NFL dailiens in our universe. What
a Sunday, an important Sunday where we finally lost Patrick
Claybon as a member of Team Analytics.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
He's done with it. No, no, no over. I just
I needed a place to go. I went there briefly. No,
we're bat, Greg, stay there.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
I've never seen Patrick as mata anything as he has
been about the fourth down decisions on this Sunday, especially
from Liam Cohen and Brian Shottenheiman.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, there were some ones that got a little bit
wiggily there. I went to a dark place, but I'm
back now. I did some research. Yes, I will get
you know again. I have hit my yelling quota now
twenty twenty five, not be yelling anymore. And we we
were gonna I have a take I'm working on when
we get.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
There, okay, and we'll give it to the people.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Let's get there. Then let's talk about one of those games.
Let's lead off with Cowboys Eagles to Jerry World forty two.

Speaker 4 (01:30):
Yards on the left hash to win the game, snapping
home forty two yard kick from Aubrey. The Cowboys have
won this football game. Butter Bubber, Butter, Butter Butters.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
I don't know when they won one.

Speaker 5 (01:47):
It's not like this.

Speaker 4 (01:49):
Forty two for Aubrey and the Cowboys win twenty four.

Speaker 6 (01:52):
To twenty one.

Speaker 7 (01:53):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
The voice of the Dallas Cowboys, Brad Sham, I'm k
r l D. He can't remember a game where they
came back from twenty one nothing twenty one seven at halftime.

Speaker 5 (02:08):
Yes, holding the Eagles scoreless in.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
The second half, and perhaps overcoming a decision that made
Patrick a little bit crazy. Brandon Aubrey with the walk off.
Let's start with Shookie here. When the Eagles are dominating
this game in the first half, I just could not
imagine a scenario where the Cowboys came back and won it.

Speaker 5 (02:31):
And they are now five to five and one.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
And the theme early in this show is the Thanksgiving
games getting a little more interesting and the Cowboys getting
to five hundred what do you think was the most
important thing that turned this game around?

Speaker 6 (02:43):
Oh?

Speaker 8 (02:43):
I mean this could spider web in a number of
different directions, just based on the fact that it's not
going to be a normal Monday morning in Philadelphia after this.

Speaker 9 (02:49):
But yeah, what was the most important thing?

Speaker 8 (02:50):
Well, I agree with you that when they were up
twenty one to nothing, I thought there's no way they're rolling.
They even checked off the most important box, which is
get aj Brown involved and throw them a touchdown pass.
Their social media teams having a field day with it.
They posted a little video of Jalen Hurts sitting down saying,
so that's what y'all wanted, huh, Except this is not
what they wanted. They didn't want you to collapse in
the second half and give away possession by fumbling a

(03:13):
part return, by giving the Cowboys a chance that they
didn't cash in, by failing to get within field goal range,
and then giving up a field goal against your hated rival.
This is a game you should have pulled away, and
instead you crumbled. And that's why it's not going to
be a normal Monday in Philadelphia.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
And I do want to get to the downside of
the Eagles at some point here, But this was an
awesome performance by a Cowboys offense who puts up four
hundred and seventy three yards twenty five first downs, and
George Pickens helps to take over in the second half,
finishing with one hundred and forty six yards and nine
catches on nine target on nine targets.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
Every single time the ball went in George Pickens' direction,
he was making a play against a secondary where there's
always an overmatch in the favor of the Philadelphia Eagles
until they come into this situation where it's Ceedee Lamb
and George Pickens and you're able to get a player
who the folks watching that game, watching previous Cowboys games,
it's tough to watch and say that George Pickens isn't

(04:09):
the best player on the field, and you get him
for a third round pick, And thanks to the nature
of the franchise tag and all that, we may never
get to see what George Pickens might actually be worth
in an open market in this situation. But it's tough
not to say the top five in.

Speaker 5 (04:24):
The league looking at you were saying he was the
best receiver.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
In the league a little earlier in terms of like
who's executing, who's making the plays that are available to
them on the field, who's finishing plays Where you see
George Pickens get loose, he steps out of a tackle,
a legitimate threat to score every single time he catches
the ball. I understand there were some wiggly moments he did,
weird things that we had fun in talking about them
in Pittsburgh. But the results speak for themselves. Greg He's

(04:51):
a spectacular football player playing some of the best football
of his career right.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Now, and he did it on a day where his
running partner Cede Lamb let the team down ultimately thre Redrops.
I believe in this game a couple of real groaners
where he's just like knocking it down like a volleyball,
and then he didn't make a catch that preceded the
brot Brian Schottenheimer decision on fourth down that you know,
first of all, Ceedee Lamb should catch that ball. It's

(05:16):
a really difficult throw by Dak Prescott into a tight window,
but it goes through Ceedee Lamb's bread basket. It's tied
twenty one. All this is late in the fourth quarter.
We've got about three forty five to go and instead
of taking a chip shot Brandon Aubrey field goal, they
go for fourth end goal I believe from the Philadelphia

(05:38):
one yard line. But they throw the ball and that
was the point where you lost your mind, and I
think analytics lost you forever.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
No, it's not that analytics lost me forever.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
I think the Dallas Cowboys called all the way back
from down twenty one to nothing.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
They had a chance to take the lead, yes, in
the fourth quarter.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
And I understand the model and the folks that Next
Gen Stats put a lot of effort into the model,
but there's some limitations there and determining what the decision
should be in a football game that is actively happening
in the moment, so the model has to make a
few assumptions. And so you go in to the Next
Gen Stats page and they're very forthcoming, very open with
regards to how things are constructed. And so I'll read

(06:16):
you guys a quote. The actual yards to go is
a clear metric to provide to the model, because you
want to know the down and distance and how that
plays into your decisions. But there's not a lot of
information that's available to the model in that moment. So
the Vegas lines are used condense vast amounts of situational
historical knowledge about the teams into a small set of
numbers to involve that decision, specifically the point spread. And

(06:41):
you know my opinion on what the goal of the
point spread.

Speaker 5 (06:44):
Is to make people gamble more, to provide.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
An opportunity for people to make a decision to gamble.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
I think that's only that small part of the NGS.

Speaker 3 (06:53):
It's a small part.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
But when we're talking about decisions that are point zero
zero nine in point zero zero four, I think in
terms of evaluating the decision, I would like a model
not to include Vegas is desired to make money on
the football game, because I know people think Vegas is
so smart and they know everything about football. They are
not making decisions to be right about the game. They

(07:15):
are making decisions to make money.

Speaker 3 (07:17):
They want. The lines are there to encourage action.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
So eventually you get to a point where you get
a line, and that's because the line is changing over
the course of the entire week because they would like
the money. The money is the priority there.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yes, So I don't know how much it goes into it.
I think you have to trust what you see and
Brian Schottenheimer has said like he hears his dad's voice
in his head and that he wants to be more
conservative with these ideas. And I think he's thinking field
position is part of it, because what happened to the
Eagles offense is part of that decision. And what happened

(07:50):
to them is they got a couple first downs, but
they end up punting from their own nineteen yard line,
setting up the Cowboys to end up going on that
game winning goal drive. I was surprised because took the
Eagles defense is that is the great unit in this game.
A the Eagles offense is struggling, so if you put

(08:12):
three points on the board here, actually I'd have a
little bit of faith that the Cowboys can stop them.
But I didn't mind the call too much to go
for it there. I'm just more kind of amazed that
everything happened down the stretch of this game on both
sides of the ball. What disappointed you the most took
like of how the Eagles finished this game out.

Speaker 8 (08:31):
Well, I felt like Patrick was heading toward making a
case for momentum for a second with like you know,
needing the context of the game to you know, kind
of make a better decision, which I was about to
be blown away by that, So thank you for steering
away from that.

Speaker 9 (08:42):
That would have just made me useless for the rest
of the show.

Speaker 8 (08:45):
I think it's just the second half lack of production,
not that it's a surprise from the Eagles offense that
has struggled mightily, and in fact, scoring twenty one points
against anybody is an achievement for them, at least as
of late. It's the fact that their defense given the
opportunity to get some stops, which they did get stops.

Speaker 9 (09:00):
There was a lot of There was a sequence there where.

Speaker 8 (09:03):
Cavante Turpin fumbles the ball in the backfield, Zach Bond recovers.
Like they made their plays defensively, but ultimately they were
not able to withstand the onslaught the offensive onslought of
nearly five hundred total yards from the Cowboys offense. That
is their only method to success is by throwing the
ball and trying to just move it through the air
as much as possible.

Speaker 9 (09:22):
That's what disappoints me. Now, they did lose some.

Speaker 8 (09:24):
Guys in this game, and then Andrew mccooba goes down
that that last drive as well and that's kind of
a bummer and explains a little bit of it. But ultimately,
if this defense is as good as we thought it
was for the last couple of weeks, they make at
least one stand in a key spot, and at minimum
this game goes to overtime, which is not what happened
to me.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
It's it's so much more on the offense and the
game changed. We didn't know it at the time certainly,
but it's late second quarter. They had like a third
and two before halftime, and then they get a false
start penalty I think on Cam Jurgens.

Speaker 5 (09:54):
It backs him up.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
They don't get the first down, and then Dak goes
on a nice drive before halftime to at least cut
the deficit. And then after that, you know, the Eagles
offense goes three and out, one first down and then
upon another three and out. Jakb Elliott misses a long
field goal. At one point, you have the fumble. It's
a little bit of everything, but ultimately, like against this

(10:15):
Cowboys defense, which does look better, you know, you got
to be able to sustain drives a little bit more
because you can't expect their defense to hold up the
whole time. It was a really magical I think Dave
for the Cowboys and for Dak Prescott. Let's listen to
his rushing touchdown which tied the score early in the
fourth quarter.

Speaker 4 (10:36):
Prescott on second down back and runs up out of
the pocket, runs to his left to the.

Speaker 5 (10:40):
Town to the five, touch.

Speaker 10 (10:42):
To his left, Summer Tift touch down, touchdown. Fuck have
them touchdown? Press Scott, you're too old to shummer fault
an extra point away from Tunning all the way back.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
That that is awesome, and it's it's a reminder. Yeah,
one team was able to run the ball well today
and that team was the Dallas Cowboys. Not that it
was like incredible. Javonte goes eighty seven yards and Malik
Davis actually had a couple of nice carries off the
bench too, but Saquon Barkley ten for twenty two and yeah,
on a day where Davante Smith goes deep and ag

(11:19):
Brown goes over one hundred yards, like we said, they
have had no running game and they fall to eight
and three and give the Rams, who will be hearing
from later in the show, a chance to take the
one seed in the NFC.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
And a credit to consummate Baald Knower Jerry Jones, as
the Wilson trade as well as the Williams trade seem
to this Dallas Cowboys defense. You go back to the
start of the season, they're inconsistency and just you know,
they get the Marvin Overshawn back, which also helps there.

(11:52):
But the run defense better, defense better overall, even though
they did get Torch deep a couple of times and
the pressure kept Jalen Hurts from stepping into throws. But
Jalen Hurts far and away the leading rusher. He had
ten more yards than Saquon and he averaged four yards
of carry. He had the most explosive run of the
Eagles offense on the day. And you know, Lane Johnson

(12:15):
being out, it didn't get it definitely wasn't going to
get better. But we saw how much worse it was
going to be against this Ebra Flu's defense. And it's
you know, over on the defensive side. You know Mkooba
gets hurt, but not just that, because he's on Turpin
coming out of the backfield on the Pickens play that
got them in field goal range on that last drive,

(12:36):
and he's running to get Turpin runs into Quinyon Mitchell,
which is how George Pickens got that open in the
first place. Just a rough situation in spots for the
defense and then for the offense. Is the entire second
half things went south?

Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yeah, it's kind of amazing where I know Jalen Hurts
can't hold the ball, but Dak and Jalen Hurts held
the ball the same amount of time tonight. And you
know which team had a higher pressure rate, Dallas Cowboys.
The Doomsday defense is back. They're in the mix at
five and one, five five and one.

Speaker 3 (13:07):
Sheok violently shaking his head at Doomsday defense.

Speaker 9 (13:10):
Not a fan, No, it'd be my Doomsday.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
I'm still you know, I'm still not forgiving Darry for
the Michael Parsons trade. But damn it, if they don't
put on a good show, would they be facing a
team on Thanksgiving? Also, coming off of victory, let's go
to the Chiefs in Arrowhead.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
So if the Colt should blitz, they do criss cross blitz.
Mahomes goes over the middle to pass.

Speaker 11 (13:33):
This didn't catch made by Worthy and a catch and
cold territory of thirty one yards. Worthy with the great
catch burning Chavarius warned the ex chief and the Chiefs
are in business at five point fifteen to go.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
In the overtime, tight to twenty.

Speaker 12 (13:49):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Mitch Holtis on k f n Z with the heady
called noting, Yes, it was a Tarvarius word revenge game,
but the chief got their revenge in the end, twenty
three to twenty in overtime. A fascinating game. It felt
like a playoff game the Eagles Cowboys was just weird fun.

(14:14):
This felt like it could have been in January, and
I shouldn't be surprised shook in the end that the
Chiefs made the plays to win as if it was
a January game. Down twenty to nine going into the
fourth quarter, the Chiefs are driving. Patrick Mahomes needed to
win this game if they were going to win this game,

(14:36):
and they did.

Speaker 5 (14:37):
Obviously.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
It was gonna be the biggest fourth quarter comeback of
his entire career. And when Kareem Hunt fumbled the ball
in the red zone while they're going in to start
the fourth quarter, I really thought, man, that's probably it.
But you know what, Steve Spagnolo kept sending the house,
Chris Jones kept getting pressures to get the Colts off

(14:59):
the field, and ultimately the Chiefs offense which just couldn't
buy a big play all day, just ground down this
Colts defense and eventually wins it in overtime, a gut
check win. And I don't think you can overstate how
important it is to this entire Chief season.

Speaker 8 (15:18):
No, absolutely not, especially after Travis Kelsey was outspoken this
week saying that people needed to stop being selfish. This
was going to be a situation that was going to
test your you know, intestinal fortitude as a team, Like,
how are you going to overcome this adversity at home
against one of the rising star teams of the AFC
this year, one of the darlings in the Indianapolis Colts
with one of the most complete offenses in the NFL.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
How do you do it?

Speaker 8 (15:39):
You outgain them nearly two to one, very close to
two to one, You overcome early and mid early fourth
quarter turnover as well, and you mount the comeback. Which
is a prime example of why when we continue to
consider this team week by week, no matter their record
five and five now six and five, we cannot put
them to bed because they have the culture and the

(15:59):
experience is to overcome adversity in situations like that. Sometimes
they need to remind themselves that they're capable of it.
And I hate to put too much importance on a game,
but this type of comeback and then winning it in overtime,
it didn't feel inevitable. Watching from Afar might have felt
inevitable just because of the Chiefs, but it can be
the type of game that informs your team that yes,
you can do this, and it injects belief and hope

(16:20):
and optimism into the group, and it takes a little
bit of that pressure off that you're no longer now
you're slightly above five hundred, this is where the run starts.

Speaker 9 (16:28):
Let's build momentum from here.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
Well, yeah, they would have been at five and six.
And the rest of the AFC, I think, is watching
this game and they're like, come on, Colts, can you
just drive the stake through their heart? Because there were
so many opportunities to do so, and sometimes it's these
small little margins. And I'm going to go through a
few different scenarios in this game, but one actually is
late second quarter and at this point that the Chiefs

(16:53):
and the Colts are trading touchdowns for field goals and
it's fourteen to six, and it looked like I thought,
you know, the played a really good game play calling.
They were going to escape the first half with one
extra possession. Those are like the small margins and probably
go up even more than fourteen to six. They get
stuffed on a second in one type of carry or

(17:13):
second and two, something like that, and then on third down,
Spagnolo kind of Jedi mind tricks Daniel Jones into changing
the play at the line of scrimmage into a pass
on third and one at midfield, and then Jones does
pass it, but the Chiefs, they're so smart, they change
their defense back and Jones doesn't have time to really adjust.

Speaker 5 (17:34):
And they get ready back people out out.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
Of the box and they stop them and Stike and
then decides to punt, and it's around midfield, and that
started a trend of Shane Stike and punting on fourth
and short. He punted two different times in the second
half on his own forty on fourth and three, and
I think you know both the models and Patrick Clay,
but I would probably defend that decision. I thought, with

(18:00):
the way the game was going, I would have liked
to see him go for I think less forgivable to
me was punting on fourth and four from the Chiefs
forty five yard line with five thirty six to go,
you're on the other side of the fifty.

Speaker 5 (18:13):
You're up at that point a field goal.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
And that sequence, to me was so telling because whether
you give credit to the decisions or more importantly the players,
the Chiefs were just not allowing the Colts offense to
do anything. And you get the ball at midfield, up
three with about six minutes to go, you should just
win that game, and they go three and out. And
the Colts defense had been kind of bailing them out

(18:35):
over and over again, just bending and not breaking, and
eventually they did break.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
And it also the aggressiveness not just from Shane Steichen
what you would have liked to see in those situations,
but on Daniel Jones in the plays before those situations,
because on that fourth and ultimately four, Doms throws short
of the sticks to get his third and ten and
they get a six yard completion. They're to Michael Pittman Junior.
And it's a trend it went for most of the

(19:01):
second half where the Colts would be in great situations,
there will be incomplete passes on third down. Ultimately they
go five of sixteen on third down in this game
where they have the opportunities. But you see the Kansas
City Chiefs lose to the consummate twenty twenty five rock
fight team in the Denver Broncos. And when they get
in a rock fight that's not against the Broncos shootout.

(19:25):
I will favor the Colts and Dimes every single time.
But as the score remained low in this game, it
seemed more inevitable. And you mentioned the Kareem Hunt fumble,
it could have been even worse. It could have been
even more of a like overtimes not in question if
Kareem Hunt doesn't put that ball on the turf, and
the Chiefs just win this second half running away.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
No, And the game starts with Laatu Latu having his
third interception of the year put him on the Pro
Bowl ballot as a cornerback.

Speaker 5 (19:51):
Forget it.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
I mean he's got more than he's a cover edge
a lot of like the top players in the league.
And he picks off Mahomes, tips it in the air
to himself and they score or a short you know,
three yard touchdown drive right after that.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
So one of their two scores that they got two
touchdowns right on a.

Speaker 5 (20:08):
Play to play basis.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
The Chiefs look like the better team thirty three first
downs to ten ninety one offensive plays, and yet like
the thing that stands out to me shook is the
Colts had no pass rush whatsoever. They missed a Forest
Buckner so well, And I actually thought it was a
pretty uneven game from Patrick Mahomes. He goes for three
hundred and fifty yards. He ultimately makes the winning play

(20:29):
there in overtime. But I think Tony Romo is usually
pretty forgiving, was noting how he's getting off his receivers
awfully quickly, and there's some numbers out there where they
are just not doing anything against man coverage this year
or in this game, he's eating up zone and when
they went to man today with Tarvarius Warden Sauce Gardner,
like they were not getting any production and so they

(20:51):
really had to work for it. Kareem Hunt had thirty
carries in this game for one hundred and four yards.
He's stuck with the run in part because Mahomes was uneven.
And yet you know, they made it happen, Mahomes and
Chris Jones, especially in the.

Speaker 8 (21:02):
End, and it's indicative of something that Mahomes has battled
a few weeks now, and I think it really came
to a head against Denver, a game that he just
always felt like. It looked to me like he was
always uncomfortable in that game and just didn't really know
where to go, which is very uncommon for him. He's
one of the best play extenders and somebody who makes
something out of nothing in the NFL, and to have
that kind of carry over into an uneven game today

(21:24):
against a quality opponent doesn't surprise me at all. What
does surprise me that the Chiefs were able to commit
to the run and break a one hundred yards with
a thirty carry performance from Kareem Hunt, because this is
a Chiefs team that has not been able to run
the ball consistently for most of this year. Safer when
you get inside the five or the ten, you just
handed it off the Hunt and he runs a couple
of guys over and gets it to the end zone.
So that's encouraging to me. But I also pivoting kind

(21:45):
of back to the Colts here for a second. We
give the Patriots a lot of stuff because Okay, well
they're unproven, like who have they played?

Speaker 11 (21:53):
Right?

Speaker 9 (21:53):
We don't know about them?

Speaker 8 (21:54):
Why don't we say the same thing about the Colts
because this is one of those examples where you look
at them and you go, you need Daniel Jones to
make a play, you need Jonathan Taylor to have a day.
Sixteen Carriacs for fifty eight yards is not a day
when compared against the rest of Jonathan Taylor's season. How
much do you trust this Colts team because they're going
to be in a situation like this in the playoffs.

(22:14):
This is a test and I think if anybody was
looking for a reason to be confident in them, they
failed that test today.

Speaker 5 (22:20):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
There were so many opportunities for them to win and
to show that they were like a difference making offense,
and they started out that way in terms of like
the play calling, but ultimately that sequence I mentioned where
they get the ball at midfield with a chance to
put the ball away, like Jonathan Taylor doesn't even get
the ball. And it's worth noting like Jonathan Taylor and

(22:43):
their running game like wasn't that effective overall today and
including in short yard situations. So it's like you're kind
of damned if you do, damned if you don't. The
offensive line had a bunch of penalties, like they had
their chance to kind of stamp themselves and now they
didn't do it.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
You saw a flash of it where there was a
play I believe in the second where Quentin Nelson is
pulling around.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
Gets a great block.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
They get a great seal on the edge as well,
and Jonathan Taylor goes down the sideline and you almost
needed the Colts. The Colts needed Jonathan Taylor to have
that signature like huge home run hit a run where
that's Those are the big plays on the offense at
this point where the Chiefs were able to, you know,
keep a lid on Alec Pierce and we want like, well,

(23:24):
maybe Dimes gets involved in the run game. He had
a first down scramble, but he's not moving like proham
Dimes in the run game. I know it's it's November,
and he just looked a little clunky moving around. I'm
sure he's you know, the Chiefs defense was beating him
up as well.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
I don't think he's one hundred percent because he's he
was questionable on the injury report, and he was moving
around and he's stuck in the pocket and made some
really good throws to start this game out including the
first touchdown that that he threw, which I thought was
an incredible example of him staying in the pocket. But
he did give the Chiefs a couple of chances to
pick the ball off in this game too, they just

(24:00):
didn't take advantage. And then look if the Chiefs do
turn this season around, circle back to about three minutes
left in this game. They had a fourth down and
it felt like not season to go. But it was
a big moment and Rashi Rice, if you're watching on YouTube,
you'll see Rashie Rice makes a nice catch after Mahomes,

(24:20):
you know, drops back to pass. The throws like a
little bit high. And I've been getting on Racei Rice
for not really making plays this year. He did have
a good game today. After one misplay early, then goes
eight for one forty one big time play by a
big time play.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
You could almost say it was a one handed gram
the way he had to reach up and stab that
where it would have been a nasty Mahomes miss. If
that goes to the turf would have said, hey, that
would have been a tough catch for Rashee Rice instead,
first down and now they can't they can't be killed
at the zombie Chiefs.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
They are, and that sets up a beautiful Thanksgiving matchup.
They're six and five. The Cowboys are five to five
and one and both very intriguing. Meanwhile, this cold it's
lost Somewhere Texans fans are at home cheering for the Chiefs.

Speaker 13 (25:05):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
Somewhere, Jaguars fans will get to them. We're cheering for
the Chiefs and could make it very interesting atop the
AFC South. All right, let's go from that Thanksgiving game
and set up the next one. Yes, the Detroit Lions
are hoping for an easy Sunday and they did not
get one.

Speaker 14 (25:22):
Here come the Lions now opening possession of overtime golf
up under center turns.

Speaker 3 (25:28):
Gives to Gibbs. Gibbs had to.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
Take the.

Speaker 4 (25:34):
Get up?

Speaker 5 (25:37):
Who cut down?

Speaker 12 (25:38):
Detroit Lion?

Speaker 3 (25:40):
W off shand up stand up?

Speaker 14 (25:44):
Sexting hoards sremire gives to the House.

Speaker 3 (25:48):
No, the first play from shrimmaging over time.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Why didn't you know?

Speaker 8 (25:54):
You know?

Speaker 5 (25:58):
He can't? Ah?

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Wow, my good Oh put that on the Call of
the Year list. I don't know if we've been doing
one this year. We should now Jamir Gibbs does it again.
Two hundred and nineteen yards on the ground on only
fifteen carries. He scores three touchdowns on the day. For
you fantasy owners, he adds eleven catches. It's the Jamir

(26:23):
Gibbs offense. He is the best pound for pound player
in the NFL. Like Ali Connelly was saying on our
Saturday show, check that out. The Lions survive all time
Jamis Winston game in terms of entertainment value and win
thirty four to twenty seven in overtime. And yes, they

(26:45):
had to stop Jamis Winston because of the overtime rules.
That touchdown did not end the game on a drive.
While we're here, let's actually listen to another Dan Miller
call because it was another big time player ending the
game for the Lions.

Speaker 5 (27:00):
Fourth and five with the Lions get to stop here,
this game's over. Winston's gonna work out of the gun.

Speaker 14 (27:06):
Four across the food for Detroit long count play clocket three.

Speaker 3 (27:12):
There's the snap to Winston.

Speaker 14 (27:14):
He's back on fourth down looking pressure.

Speaker 3 (27:16):
Cut the ball.

Speaker 14 (27:19):
Games this tall gamell games, Hey notch, it comes up
with a sack.

Speaker 12 (27:24):
Get out of here, poys, go to the locker room.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
This game's over.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
Ah, that's another great call and uh, I do love
a Lomas Brown just screaming in the background.

Speaker 5 (27:35):
I believe that was him shook.

Speaker 15 (27:38):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (27:39):
Look, they needed this.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
You cannot slip up to the Giants the way things
are crowded in that division.

Speaker 5 (27:44):
What did you think about how hard it was for
the Lions to win this game?

Speaker 8 (27:49):
I think that the visceral nature of those two calls
explains it all for the Lions today, because you're absolutely right,
this is a game that they cannot afford to slip up.

Speaker 9 (27:58):
They couldn't let this one get away.

Speaker 8 (27:59):
They couldn't affor falling to six and five, and they
shouldn't because it's the Giants, a team that hasn't won
in ages, a team that's playing Jameis Winston at quarterback.
You should be able to make him make a mistake
or two because that's what he's known to do. Instead,
Jamis has one of his best days that anybody's gonna remember.
He catches a touchdown pass and it wasn't just catching
in the end zone. It's a catch and run. The
Lions in the fourth quarter had to find themselves just

(28:19):
wondering how did we get here? And it took a
great effort for them just to get into field goal
range to send this to overtime. It was a tough
game for them through all four quarters despite Jamir Gibbs
having such a great game, and felt like the rest
of the offense really couldn't figure it out. Defense couldn't
stop Jamis, who made a bunch of big plays until
Jamiir rips that one off in overtime.

Speaker 9 (28:38):
A sixty nine yard run.

Speaker 8 (28:40):
Two touchdown runs accounted for one hundred and eighteen yards
of his two hundred and nineteen total yards. He was
the guy for this team and that's why once he
got in the end zone, that was the first time
Lions fans could think, oh my god, we may actually
avoid disaster right now.

Speaker 9 (28:53):
And it's all because of the guy in the backfield
with Gibbs in the back of his jersey.

Speaker 3 (28:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
They were down twenty seven seventeen after Winston passed the
gunner Olshefski he or passed from gunner Olshefski and then
immediately Gibbs response, so they're down ten points in the
fourth quarter, Gibbs responds with a forty nine yard touchdown
run that is epic, like all time great Barry Sanders

(29:18):
Hall of Fame type stuff, just putting the team on
his back.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
Yeah, and he's finishing those runs.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
There was the He also almost had another long touchdown
run in the second half where the Giants are able
to get him out of pounds inside the five, and
all that did was delay the Jumior Gibbs touchdown reception
where he catches the ball and extends to get across
the pilot. Just a great game from Gibbs where you wonder.
You look at the numbers and Jamior Gibbs is averaging

(29:44):
fourteen yards to carry and it's like, how how is
this possible that the game goes to overtime when your
best player on offense is averaging fourteen yards to carry.
That's because they couldn't stop Jamis in the first half.
He had two hundred passing yards and two touchdowns in
the first half, like Wandell rob and was almost a
fantasy wide receiver one purely off of what he did

(30:05):
in the first half. It was so much offensive success
where it's like, why have we been keeping the Jamis?
And Mike Kafka wrapped up Also, Yeah, every Giants game
could have potentially.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
Been like this, but instead we got the twenty twenty five.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
Oh, it goes back to what I've been thinking ever
since Dark came in and Winston. It's like Dable in
this entire organization deserves everything they got for starting Russell
Wilson in the first place. There was a lot of
evidence that Jameis Winston was a much better quarterback entering
twenty twenty five than Russell Wilson. And in Wandale, Yeah,

(30:38):
had one thirty five before halfter, What did he You
didn't like my Russell Wilson Bury all there?

Speaker 8 (30:43):
No.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
I was reminded that there was another team that was
up three in the fourth quarter late with a gold
to goest situation and eschewed the field goal, ultimately leading
to the loss.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
And that was a decision by Mike Kafka.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
They were up twenty seven to twenty four, they had
a fourth down end goal, and they had an incomplete pass,
so Detroit didn't have to use use their timeout. Molik
Neighbors is watching from home and sends out this, Sometimes
I think they'd be making us lose on purpose, because
there's no way you throw the ball instead of running
it to make them burn two timeouts. Then you don't

(31:16):
kick the field goal. They have to go down and
score football common sense? Am I missing something? That's what
Melik Neighbors said during the game.

Speaker 5 (31:23):
I love that he posted that, and I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
You got the tweet you sureing it while READI itt no,
but you left out the four slammers that he put
behind football common sons exclamation point four times?

Speaker 5 (31:38):
Am I missing something? And you're right.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
That drive for the Giants ended with what under three
minutes to go in the game, and it ends up
being a Jake Baits. It took the Lions that long
Jake Baits fifty nine yard field goal, or else they
would have lost that game.

Speaker 5 (31:58):
And yeah, that was an unconventional decision.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
I do think the kickoff rule, right or wrong, is
playing a pretty big role in the coach's decisions to
do this, because they're thinking, Okay, if we hit the
field goal, we're up six, but the kickoff is probably coming.

Speaker 5 (32:16):
Out to the thirty to thirty five.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
That's like thirty yards of field position, whereas in the
past that would have been maybe twenty.

Speaker 8 (32:23):
You don't like it, sh I push back against that
because you still have to force that team to go
down and get a touchdown. And what's the role the
worst place to be is up six in a game
because you could still lose and you know they have
to go get a touchdown. That's fine because in this
game the Lions were struggling to do anything outside of
Gibbs ripping one off. I would trust my defense in
that scenario and kick the three go up by six,
so you don't run the risk of Jake Baits hitting

(32:43):
the game tire, which, by the way, the one he
may decided to overtime just barely snuck in there. Imagine
if you're up six and they had to fight just
to get into position there. So I disagree with that,
but I do I agree with what you're saying overall
because field position I think plays a big part in
a lot of these decisions, but in this one specifically,
you kick the field goal, you take points every time.

Speaker 9 (33:00):
But that's not with the benefit of hindsight.

Speaker 3 (33:02):
But it's also not just the fourth down decision on
the incomplete pass.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
There was the second down decision to throw the ball
at all that stopped the clock after the Lions had
called a time out.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
I think that's the one that bothers Malik Neighbors and maybe.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
Me the way the wide open throw that Jameis Winston missed.
I mean, I can't kill that. That just he missed
the throw, which is a very unfortunately kind of like
Jamisy ending because he was incredible in this game. Can
we can we at least listen to the receiving touchdown?
This is one of the plays of the year.

Speaker 16 (33:38):
First in Canada, Detroit thirty three pistol formation. Singletary's the
back behind Winston. Winston pumps his right leg, takes the
snap play faith. They run an end around for Rowshwsky.
Who's gonna throw it?

Speaker 3 (33:49):
He does throw it down the up sideline for whisks.

Speaker 5 (33:51):
Oh he's as mayor James for the touchdown.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
Holy cow, Oh do you.

Speaker 10 (34:00):
Want to touch step at people Jameis Winston.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
Oh my goodness, that's Bob Popa, Oh my gosh, a
w fan and Carl Banks. The transition to the celebration
in front of the camera. Put that on the Jamis
Winston Hall of Fame reel.

Speaker 5 (34:18):
That's beautiful.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
The famous dual sport athlete at Florida State, who at
quarterback is one of the more awkward movers in NFL history,
somehow gets past the line of scrimmage, shook and turns
into an exciting athlete where Derek Barnes has the worst
rep I've ever seen him have.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
Jamus not only adjusted.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
To the football but stiff arms Barnes, steps out of
it and goes into the end zone.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
Ay.

Speaker 8 (34:41):
I saw some shades of Plaxco Burst there on that catch.
I mean, just boxing out the defender and breaking the
tackle adjusting to it in mid air. When el Shewsky
stepped up by the way because he had to step
up into a pocket, that just became a pocket in
the middle of the play. I thought, there's no way
he's throwing at the Jamis downfield. And then he lets
it go and I'm like, oh my god, Jamis is there.
And as soon as he boxed him out, that's when
I was like, oh, this is amazing. The broken tackle

(35:03):
was the cherry on top. I had the celebration. You're right,
Paul fam reel right. And that was the second trick
play that worked for them. They had a throwback pass
to Jamis earlier that he had for a touchdown to
Wandale Robinson to open the scoring.

Speaker 9 (35:14):
Wild Day.

Speaker 5 (35:15):
Yeah, that was a thirty nine yarder from Jamis.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
There was a third and ten from his own end
zone where he throws it totally under fire a ball
that I thought might have scraped the top of the
dome and it goes to Isaiah Hodgens complete down the field.
Just amazing timing, Hut spot everything and talent out of
Jamis and Hodgens there and then he has a third

(35:40):
and seventeen later in that drive. So I disagree with
you both after hitting those plays. You know, Jamis didn't
execute on the play on the goal line, but you
have a guy open on the goal line, you could
go win the game right there. And Nick use the
phrase trust your defense with the two twenty twenty five Giants.

Speaker 5 (35:58):
Defense, I'm never trusting defense. They just lost. They just
lost me.

Speaker 8 (36:02):
They can get after Jared Goff. You know Brian Burns
a little on that last drive. Brian Burns did go
take a breather, So maybe maybe you're right.

Speaker 5 (36:09):
And yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
The Gibbs day as great, like they have really leaned
into playing him more forty eight snaps to twenty two
for Montgomery. And I know he hit those two big
plays and that's like most of his yard, but he
had a seventy five percent success or seventy seven percent
success rate on his fronts today, so it was not
even just the long ones. Put that man in whatever
conversation you want, offensive player of the year, I guess,

(36:32):
and I'm glad because if if the Lions had lost
on that play to Jamis Wins, I think you just
have to eliminate them from playoff contention.

Speaker 5 (36:42):
I just think your season's over. Wow, you just have
to go home. So it's a good thing.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
Like a rule, it's just a new rule.

Speaker 5 (36:47):
They're seven.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
And man, this NFC North, like all the teams are
a little bit flawed and really have no idea. Who's
going to go out on top. Let's talk about another one.
After this break, you will go to lambeau Field.

Speaker 17 (37:12):
It is second down and goal to go inside the
one yard line. Love under center, Wilson alone back. They've
got a wing set up in the right side, and
Love takes hand off up the middle.

Speaker 11 (37:23):
It's Wilson to the endside, touch down, and the Packers
cash in and take US sixteen.

Speaker 5 (37:31):
To six lead.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
Emmanuel Wilson, Congratulations to that young man. Congratulations to the
people who picked him up in fantasy and just played
him right away. Congratulations to the Green Bay Packers who
are seven three and one. They destroy the Minnesota Vikings
twenty three to six in a game where it felt

(37:55):
like the Vikings were not getting into double digits. Shook
if you gave them another sixty minutes of play.

Speaker 9 (38:02):
Yeah, you're asolutely right.

Speaker 8 (38:03):
In fact, it was so apparent that they weren't getting
into double digits that Matt Lafleur, perhaps uncharacteristically just leaned
on the run in the second half, played as conservatively
as possible, just run heavy, not taking any chances, settling
for field goals, just slowly building that lead because he
watched his defense dominate JJ McCarthy and the whole Vikings offense,
especially in the second half. By the end of this game,

(38:26):
the Vikings they had ten total net yards in the
second half ten. At one point in the fourth quarter,
they were at negative eleven. They were being outgained something
like one forty to negative eleven. Complete domination started with
the Packers defense, and the offense was able to just
ride the ground game. Didn't need Jordan Love to be
a hero, and they were able to ride the ground
game without Josh Jacobs because of Emmanuel Wilson. Great day

(38:46):
for him with a career high one hundred and seven
and two touchdowns and a feel good win for the
Packers who have to really like what they're seeing from
their defense.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
Yeah, the defense has taken over against some lackluster offensive competition.
We'll get to the Jj McCarthy of it all, But
what did you see out of the defense in terms
of averaging or only allowing two point two yards per
pass play on the vikings and then picking them off
a couple times late.

Speaker 8 (39:11):
I saw a very consistently collapsed pocket and some of
it had to do with JJ holding onto the ball
for an extra beat, which we know that's typical of
him so far in his pro career and dating back
to when he was at Michigan as well.

Speaker 9 (39:22):
But it was a pass rush that came at you
from every angle. It wasn't just Micah Parsons. It was
Rashan Gary, it was Devonte Wyatt.

Speaker 8 (39:28):
They were game wreckers coming from all different directions, and
especially after you know there's a bit of a shuffle
on the offensive line, like it just gets worse and
worse for McCarthy and the entire offense.

Speaker 9 (39:38):
But they just had no hope.

Speaker 8 (39:39):
They were backed up inside their five at one point
and McCarthy twice had to run forward just to avoid
getting sacked for a safety. It was complete dominance and
it wasn't just one guy. Parsons obviously does a big
part of it, but this is a complete defensive unit
just imposing their will in Minnesota.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
Before before I moved to the JJ Videll actually just
how did Jordan Love look like health wise? Is I
did not have eyes on this too much, and it
just felt like maybe that was part of the decision
making with all the running too.

Speaker 8 (40:06):
That was and there was actually a point in the
broadcasts where I think it was Greg Olsen on the
call who was consistently noting that he was handing it
off with the wrong hand oftentimes, which indicates that he
might be dealing with something. And it was an unremarkable
game from him by design, like he finishes fourteen to
twenty one four one thirty nine, but if you had
to recap that game, he doesn't play much of a
part in it. And I think a lot of it
was just built around protecting and avoiding risk, and because

(40:29):
their defense was so good, they were able to do that.
So it's something that we have to, I think, continue
to monitor especially in what has been a very up
and down season for Jordan Love overall. But on a
daylight today, it didn't really matter much, which is good
for them.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
Yeah, and they're heading into just that monster Thanksgiving game
against the Lions. This is one of the best Thanksgiving
slates we've had, just because the games are so meaningful.

Speaker 5 (40:51):
It's now that time, unfortunately, that.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
We do have to talk about JJ McCarthy, which at
this point it doesn't feel like fun. First, let's actually
let Wayne Lairvi from w R and W talk a
little bit about JJ McCarthy at least his last pick
of the day.

Speaker 17 (41:06):
Swap to the left side, Jefferson, why to the left
balentime that way as well. Safeties are high coverage. Just
saw here's the snap. McCarthy looks Fire's left side and the.

Speaker 5 (41:17):
Overthrow better sceptin.

Speaker 17 (41:20):
Evan Williams william his second game in a row with
an interception, and that will do it. Evan Williams delivers
his second consecutive dagger.

Speaker 5 (41:35):
Love a second consecutive dagger.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
We we thought about listening to Paul Allen on Minnesota,
you know, just for the kind of disappointment of it all,
but it just seemed mean and like he might be
over at that point of the game there, four and seven,
like he didn't even really have the juice to be
that sad.

Speaker 3 (41:53):
Yeah, we heard Paul on the downside last week.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
We had a chance to listen to it before the show,
and it's it's not a person who expected a different
outcome at this point, the offense struggling JJ McCarthy with
a big overstride on that overthrow to Jalen Naylor, who
you wanted that ball a little bit on the inside.
But yeah, the emotions come through from Paul, one of

(42:19):
the best in the game. But he's honest. He's honest
in the way he feels about it. It's not a
good feeling in Minnesota or I.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
Don't know if I've ever seen this, Like JJ had
a negative point sixty five EPA per play today and
before those last two interceptions it was actually negative point
four something, So it wasn't even just the turnovers. That
means every time JJ McCarthy is dropping back to pass
like they're giving up two thirds of a point, it's
just a crazy stat What like, what did it look

(42:46):
like when you're trying to isolate his play shook versus
just the Packers defense playing well.

Speaker 8 (42:51):
Yeah, I mean, that's how in effective they are as
a passing offenseve Jj quarterback. It's funny because I brought
up the Matt Laflord leaning on the run in the
second half. Kevin O'Connell tried to do that in the
first half, like more than probably he's done the entire season,
and it kept them competitive, but it also felt intentional,
as if to not throw his quarterback to the Wolves.
But if this is your starter and you want to
contend with him, eventually you're going to have to test him.

(43:12):
In the second half, they had to test him because
they were the deficit was increasing incrementally, and ultimately he
failed that test. And what you see from him is
inconsistent feet, which O'Connell has talked about trying to marry
the eyes and the feet, and you see somebody who
is not entirely confident in the decisions that he makes,
whether it's with timing, hesitating for half a beat or

(43:32):
a full beat, whether he the pockets collapsing on him.
He doesn't sense the rush, which has been an issue.
He gets his arm hit on his first pick, which
sends it flying right into the hands of a defender
for an interception, or it's just the.

Speaker 9 (43:44):
Fact that he doesn't seem like he's up to speed
with the game.

Speaker 8 (43:47):
And then when he sails that pass, that's one of
the few times that he throws it in rhythm with
obviously a very big stride. Footwork again not working very well,
but he sails it to the point where you get
the leap from Jalen Neelers if he's like, I have
no shot of getting that ball.

Speaker 9 (43:58):
This is just what we're dealing with right now.

Speaker 8 (44:00):
It's got to be so frustrating to be a Vikings
receiver right now knowing that the guy who's you know,
directing your offense can can douce makes some magic, but
the quarterback just can't make it happen.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Very difficult decision for Kevin O'Connell. I think whether to
keep playing him because he's at a like Zach Wilson,
early Zach Wilson level right now where it just feels
like maybe you owe it to the team to give
Brosma a chance for a couple of weeks and just
see it if that's any better. Let's listen to Koc
after the game.

Speaker 13 (44:30):
I still believe you know, he's he's absolutely under control.
From a play call standpoint. There's little things, you know
that happen, like a quarterback getting tripped up, you know,
on a play pass where you might have a look
at something, or you know, just maybe the dialogue in
the huddle making sure all eleven are on the same pittures.
Little things that come up here and there that just

(44:51):
continue to limit your chances of having ultimate success enough
against the good defense to go put points on the board.
But it is one of those things where I do
believe wholeheartedly that you know, it takes a driver two
of confidence building to truly cement kind of what we
want to be as an offense.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
So if their season was not over before this week,
it is now. And unfortunately they had some major injuries
in this game too. Donovan Jackson, their first round guard,
goes out late. Christian Daris saw their left tackle was
hurt during the game, as you kind of heart alluded
to in the call, and Josh Mattelis, their great safety,
was also hurt. So when it rains, it pours for

(45:30):
the Vikings. But yeah, the Packers set up a really
big one On Thanksgiving. We'll be talking about that on
Tuesday will be our Thanksgiving preview. Let's wrap up the
NFC North here with the team that was leading the
division heading into Sunday.

Speaker 5 (45:44):
Fourth one seconds snap back Rudolph pro wep.

Speaker 12 (45:48):
A complete it was better Gov. Bears are gonna win
this one. Betet down again. The Bears got their hands
up on fourth don at six and we got a Oh,
Jeff Joniak, He's on this show every freaking week. Thirty
one twenty eight. Bears survive another one, this time over

(46:13):
the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Speaker 5 (46:16):
So that's a win?

Speaker 1 (46:17):
What by three points today, two points last week, four
points a few weeks back before that, and five points
against the Bengals are a team that finds a way
to get it done.

Speaker 5 (46:31):
How did they get it done today?

Speaker 3 (46:32):
Patrick Well?

Speaker 2 (46:33):
I will call it because I thought of a name
for Dennis Allen's defense. They are the bend and break
their hearts defense from the Chicago Bears. Where it works
once again. The Steelers a mass three hundred and forty
five net yards. They outgained the Bears. They converted eight
to fourteen first downs. They got big chunk plays like
Kenneth Gainwell on a fake tush push where all the
fake tousch pushes are way more successful than the actual

(46:54):
touch pushes going around in the league. Kenneth Kennedy had
a fifty two yard or somehow didn't get in, but
they don't let him score. They let Jaylen Warren score,
by the way, so Kenny g leads the Steelers in rushing.
But you get another great Nashan Wright interception where he
almost does the same thing he did last week, where
it's a great one hand essentially interception to rob dk

(47:14):
Metcalf of a completion on the sideline. And then late
you get Montes Sweat getting the Bears an extra possession
with a strip sack. He has six and a half
sacks over his last six games. And yeah, they give
up yards, but this team is going to get the
ball from You get an extra possession or two in
this instance, and get enough to hold on and get

(47:35):
a win. In the fourth quarter against a Steelers team
with Mason Rudolph that did move the ball. They lost
dk Metcalf for a stretch in this game. He would
eventually come back. Joey Porter Junior also left this game,
which had an impact on the defense. But you get
three touchdowns from Caleb nice work with the ball.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
He did.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
End up falling victim to t J.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
Watt had another strip sack herbig jumped on top of
it for a touchdown. One hundred and fifteen career sacks
for TJ Watt. He passed JJ Watt. Yeah, famously Justin
James Watt, who played for the Houston Texans. So, Greg,
I'm going to ask you, how many sacks does TJ
need to, in your mind be a better player than
JJ Watt.

Speaker 5 (48:18):
I don't think there's a number.

Speaker 3 (48:19):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
I think what TJ would have to do is be
the one of the best players ever for like a
couple of seasons in a row. And I and it's
crazy to say that, because you're making me. You're the
one that says, oh, you don't like to compare him.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
I know, but their brothers in the stat was there.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
As I say, TJ Watt is a inner circle, first
ballot Hall of Famer yep. And yet I don't think
there's anything he could do because I think JJ Watt
is the best defensive player since I started covering football,
which is like twenty something years now, which is crazy
twenty years.

Speaker 5 (48:54):
Yeah, I think he's the best. So I don't think.
I don't think. I don't think TJ could get it
number five.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
By the way, on our top twenty five players of
the last twenty five, we know what TJ was on
that list.

Speaker 5 (49:03):
Yeah, look credit to.

Speaker 3 (49:04):
Him, just down because there's nothing he can do.

Speaker 5 (49:06):
He was like twenty one.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
He ketch big brother.

Speaker 5 (49:08):
He can climb that list, but we'll get into the
top five would be tough.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
There was nothing he could do on one of the
biggest defensive possessions because the Steelers again that chances in
the second half, there was a third down where the
Steelers secondary just releases DJ Moore to the grass. They
were trying to pass DJ Moore on Essentially there was
no defender there and so Caleb Williams hits him for
his third touchdown of the day. There's a chance though,

(49:32):
with Mason Rudolph in a comeback attempt. He hit Pat
Friarmouth for six and then got the ball back with
a minute and twenty nine.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
Seconds to go.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
But there was Jakwan Brisker on fourth down, the call
that you heard from Jony k as they fade to
black and the Bears get another big.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
Hell, let's listen to another call from Jonyack it could
that play because to me, it was typical of what
we've seen a little too often from the Steelers defense
this year.

Speaker 6 (49:53):
Third got a sixth shotgunch staff caleob Toasch thetball playing up,
but got a Steamni Scott j More Touchcot Bears Baby bearsipticably.

Speaker 5 (50:06):
I mean, there's nowhere nobody on the screen.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
It just you just see that more often, and in
a game where the Steelers had a higher success rate
passing the ball, a higher success rate running the ball,
you just see these mistakes sometimes from the Steelers defense
and they're just not as complete as you want them
to be. Ultimately, I guess we get Aaron Rodgers back

(50:30):
next week. Mike Tomlins said after the game, I thought
it might look a little different with Mason Rudolph, and
it ultimately didn't.

Speaker 5 (50:37):
Really. We did not have a wide receiver top thirty
six yards in this game.

Speaker 9 (50:40):
Shook no, and that's not surprising.

Speaker 8 (50:42):
What infuriates me with the Steelers team is you just
never get the complimentary football. You get one week where
the defense is really good, like last week against Cincinnati,
you get this week where the offense isn't great, but statistically,
they put up, you know, three hundred and forty five yards.
They're in the game, it's thirty one twenty eight to
the nyl and the defense drops the ball. And that
is why I think that they perfectly present their record
at six and five.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
Now.

Speaker 8 (51:02):
They are a near five hundred team with the potential
to put together a great performance against a good team
and challenge them, but ultimately cannot be trusted to produce
in big spots against red hot teams like the Bears,
especially on the road, which is a bummer.

Speaker 9 (51:16):
And I don't think Aaron Rodgers makes that any better
for them.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Unfortunately, Yeah, they Caleb Williams play was probably the worst
sack that he's took this year in terms of not
understanding he needed to get rid of the ball there
and spinning back. But a Bears fan hit me up
after that one was like, the difference is now the
Bears have a Caleb Williams a quarterback and he's playing
the way where immediately he responds with like a touchdown

(51:39):
drive after that. So kudos to the Bears staying atop
this division, and kudos to Ben Johnson proven all those
people wrong who said that he just didn't have.

Speaker 5 (51:49):
It as like a leader.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
Is he a leader of men? Or is he some
sort of egghead? I mean he's he might be the
biggest star in the locker room this year.

Speaker 18 (51:56):
Oh yeah, I tell you what.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
I tell you what.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
It takes a village.

Speaker 18 (52:04):
It takes a village. And I'm talking about players, I'm
talking about coaches, I'm talking about training staff, I'm talking
about everybody in this building. And here we are that
half the season and our depth is being tested. All right,
how we're gonna win this game? We got no linebacker?

Speaker 3 (52:30):
You guys so bad at I I love that they
have fun of Chicago.

Speaker 5 (52:34):
They they're doing that you make a pint.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
I'm just gonna go, uh huh, doing straight up migos
ad libs for Ben Johnson. That's how you know you
got it, man, Go Bears. Eight and three, Mama, let's
just go. Let's go to Let's go to Tennessee, Seattle.

(52:58):
Oh my gosh, this stact.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
Let's not go.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
Let's just point out the fact that the Steelers fell
to six and five today, and after having such a
big lead in the AFC North, there was a risk, yes,
that they gave up that division lead before Thanksgiving.

Speaker 5 (53:13):
The Ravels will go for it on fourth end goal.

Speaker 15 (53:17):
DeAndre Hopkins splits out wide to the right, Z eight
flowers to the left, Derrick Henry alone to the backfield.
Lamar unders center on fourth end goal from the Jets too.
The gives to Henry right side.

Speaker 5 (53:28):
He's got a holy g in touch then.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
Driven easy pasy Derrick Henry and that run. But it
was not in easy games for Derrick Henry and this
Ravens team trail that halftime, struggled with an opponent that
they would seem to overmatch on paper again, but end

(53:52):
up winning by a couple scores. Again, these games have
been consistent, Patrick, twenty three to ten.

Speaker 5 (53:58):
Does that make you feel any better?

Speaker 2 (54:01):
No, it did not make me feel better because the
concerns over the past few weeks of eight moving around
more slowly and sluggish and looking like he's uncomfortable in
the pocket. Today was the biggest example of that, in
a game where Torod Taylor had more passing yards, more completions,
and more touchdowns than Lamar, who was coming off a

(54:22):
streak of thirty consecutive games with a touchdown pass and
now there's no touchdowns in his last two games.

Speaker 3 (54:28):
You have to go back to twenty nineteen for that.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
And other than literally the Derrick Henry touchdown run which
pat Riccard comes around and blows up that side of
the field. They could blocking on that play and Henry
is able to walk in. Everything was a slog. It
was difficult. Kyle Hamilton left the game multiple times, comes
back in, which is something that you know, you grow
accustomed to Kyle Hamilton doing.

Speaker 5 (54:50):
At this point, did he finish the game.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
He didn't finish the He went into the locker room
stayed in after the game. Coach Tarball said nothing major
concerning at this point for Kyle Hamilton, which is good
news because the defense once again held the opponent under
twenty points and the offense just scratched out enough in
this sense, but the way things are currently constructed and
they're currently playing on offense where receivers aren't necessarily getting

(55:16):
a ton of separation, the time is a little You know,
Lamar had a lot of time to throw, which he
typically does because he extends plays, but his ability to
be explosive back there is a big part of holding
the ball and clearly not one hundred percent, and the
whole offense in general is not at one hundred.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Yeah, they were held under two hundred and fifty yards
against a Jets team. It's almost doing it perfectly in
terms of they're competing every week. But there are probably
some fans that wouldn't mind getting a higher draftic. They're
not embarrassing themselves. They've definitely improved on defense, especially they
hold the Ravens under two hundred and fifty yards. Now,
the Ravens have held six straight opponents under twenty points,

(55:58):
and one of them was the Rams. The rest of them,
you know, and one of them was the Bears, who
is a very good offense. They have found different formulas
to win. You're an AFC North expert, Shook, having lived
in Ohio. How are you feeling about the fact that
everyone was right? Yeah, the Ravens are going to catch
the Steelers. They've already caught them. I mean, it's a tie,

(56:20):
but they're winning the tiebreaker right now. How do you
feel about where this Ravens team is at though? With
these wins like Vikings, this Browns game, the Jets game,
even the Dolphins game, they all feel pretty similar.

Speaker 8 (56:32):
Yeah, I mean you could sound cliche and just say
a win's a win right, and that's really what matters
most of them at this point. I would like to
think that they're a team that's going to peak at
the right time, and they're just kind of building that way.
It's just that it's it's so small and increments that
there's not really like a case building that that's actually
going to come to fruition. And it starts with Lamar.
But the side that you have to be really confident

(56:53):
in is this defense. For what you just said, holding
a bunch of teams under twenty points. Ever since they
acquired a Loie Gilman, they've been able to go to
this three s ifety look that's allowed them to look,
you know, present so many different defensive looks for opposing
quarterbacks that they're just super effective in coverage. They can
do a number of different things with a personnel grouping
that is unorthodox by today's standard, even in the in
the world that we live in where everybody's prettymuch running

(57:13):
nikel defense as their base defense. And I think that
that is what's going to carry them through this period.
And you hope that eventually Lamar gets healthy enough or
comfortable enough that their offense opens back up, because it
just hasn't. And I think that when they played the
Browns last week that did not do them a favor
because they couldn't get in any rhythm in that game
because that Brown's defense was all over them. And so
it's not surprising to see them only put up twenty

(57:34):
three points and struggle in a game like this. It
was the perfect time for the Jets to turn to
Tyrod as opposed to justin Fields to give them a
chance to be competitive, which I think, you know, played
a part in this game. But ultimately, when I look
at the Ravens, I'm still very confident that they're going
to win the division. They're going to be in the playoffs,
and you hope that they peak at the right time
so you can take them seriously as a team that
can win in the playoffs.

Speaker 5 (57:54):
I just, you know, I want to look at it closer.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
But on a day where the Jets got like no
pass rush, their pressure rate is really low, and the
Ravens offense has like a very low success rate against
the Jets, little surprising thirty five percent compared to fifty
percent for the Jets. But they are in first place
and they will be playing on Thanksgiving night, against the Bengals,

(58:18):
and yes, they'll have to try to win that game
to stay atop the NFC or the AFC North. Let's
now flip over to the NFC and see if the
Seahawks could take care of business down in Tennessee.

Speaker 3 (58:31):
Third down and six slot to the New York side.

Speaker 17 (58:34):
Smith and Jigman now comes over from left to life
four man rush.

Speaker 6 (58:38):
Donald has time, gonna let it fly, got a man
jsid makes the Cats, takes the tackle.

Speaker 5 (58:43):
He's gonna back into the end zone for a touchdown.

Speaker 11 (58:47):
Shayhawks sixty three yards single coverage.

Speaker 5 (58:54):
You guys know better than that Tennessee, do they?

Speaker 13 (59:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (59:00):
It was actually one of two different times on this
day where they got Jackson Smith and Jigba singled up
on a safety and he took it to the house.

Speaker 5 (59:10):
Well, not each time.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
Eight for one, sixty seven and two touchdowns overall. Not
only did he have that that long one, he also
had a fifty six yarder in the game that did
not go for a score. Jackson Smith and Jigba has
set the all time franchise record for yards by a
Seahawks receiver in a season in Week twelve. In Week twelve,

(59:34):
you know how you always have to be like, well,
you know the season's line, like there was never a
season that was shorter than twelve games. It's ridiculous. He
is really incredible, and I'll just say it here. Patrick
score this one for the Jackson Smith and JIGBA MVP campaign.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
I think at a certain point, after after the four
i NT game, perhaps we don't we don't give these
points to Sam Donald now or if the Seahawks win,
those points generally are going to JSN.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
And Donald had an uneven game. I know the stats
look great in those I mean, every one of his
deep throws to JSN is like better than the last.
It was really awesome, like that particular throw, but the
other deep one was great too. But he had a
couple turnover where he plays in this game. He was
lucky not to get picked off a couple different times

(01:00:28):
it didn't happen, and so they got away with it.
And overall, thirty to twenty four is the final score,
and it was not as close as that would indicate.
Because Chamary DK, who might be making All Pro as
a return man as a rookie, which is pretty great
for the Titans, return another punt return. So that's one
of the Titans touchdowns. And then they had a never

(01:00:50):
ending drive at the end.

Speaker 5 (01:00:52):
Of the game.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
They ended their chance to win with a touchdown drive.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
They they did they It really did feel like they
were kind of just trying to score to make themselves
feel better. But it took forever for them to score
at the end of the game and essentially ended the game.
And if you watch Mike McCoy the interim head coaches
press conference after it, you would thought they won the game.
They were so happy, And I think that was because
cam Ward played awesome in this game. It was his
best game of the season. It was one of the

(01:01:16):
best games any quarterback has had against the Seahawks. And
if nothing else, he also led the team in rushing.
That was one reason why they were not competitive in
this game is they had Their success rate was through
the floor in terms of Tony Pollard and Tyzeri spears.

Speaker 5 (01:01:31):
But cam Ward looked great.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
I'm not sure we can really drive much else from
Titans games for the rest of the year.

Speaker 8 (01:01:36):
No, And I think that's got to be the focus
from here on out is how much progress does cam
Ward make him and Shamiri dk and, like I a
manner like the future of the team kind of worry
about the running game. I mean, I have a lot
of respect for Tony Pollard, but I also know that
the offensive line, no matter how much they've invested in it,
is just not a good group and it's not good
for run blocking. So I don't hold that against Tony

(01:01:57):
Pollard necessarily, But it's got to be all about cam
Ward because that is obviously your franchise quarterback. You spent
the number one pick on him, and you're also going
to have a really high pick again, and you don't
have to spend it on quarterback as long as you
keep him on that path. So it's really encouraging to
see him have, you know, the best game of his
season because you know, like when I do QB index,
he's always in that lower third.

Speaker 9 (01:02:16):
But I kind of want to nudge him up, and
he has like a bad game.

Speaker 8 (01:02:19):
It's just that the Titans are so bad that he
can only do so much, and so to see him
have a good game like this, it gives me a
lot of, you know, reason to bump him up, because
I think he's been fairly steady in most of his
games this season.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
I was locked into this one, and I was noting
at halftime and even going into the third quarter. They
had three points at that point, and then he missed
the throw on a screen to Spears, and I was like,
that's the first even minor mistake Kim Word has made
in this game. He was playing about a perfect game,
and yet they had three points on the board, which.

Speaker 5 (01:02:53):
I think exactly what the Titans are right it really,
but he.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
Hits a deep shot, he has another deep shot that
hits his receiver in the hands. He has a play
a dime over the middle to James Proche. They started
Van Jefferson, Chamiaradka and James Proche at wide receiver. The
leading receiver is Gunner Helm on this day, and the
coaches have been telling Ward to run more, and I
think it was a coaching point in this game because

(01:03:20):
there were many key important moments where he did run
the ball and get first downs with his legs. And
then yeah, if you're watching this game on YouTube, you'll
see this isn't a throw of the Year candidate, because
if we had cam Ward throwing the ball against his body,
across his body while going out of bounds like another one,

(01:03:40):
I think we have seven of them this year, but
there was a crazy third and nine that was just
awesome to Xavier Ristreppo, who Titans, you know, fans have
been calling for all season and they got him. He
had a lot more conventional throws in this game, but
it was nice to see the cam Ward specialist.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
Yeah, they were calling for him because it's you know,
we've it's an eligible because we do have cam Ward
fadeaway out of bounds shots, but none to Xavier or
Strepplo because that's his first career catch on that great
ball from cam Ward where it was all day. He
was pressured on forty two percent of his dropbacks. In
those dropbacks, he was nine or fourteen four one hundred

(01:04:16):
yards with a plus eleven completion percentage over expected against
a defense that has dogged everybody, including you know, the
Rams got the win.

Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
But Matthew Stafford a couple weeks ago.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
And you might have thought, okay, well, cam Ward holds
onto the ball, that's why the pressure rate. So I No,
in this game, he was getting rid of.

Speaker 5 (01:04:33):
The ball for the most part.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
Derek Hall of the Seahawks had five quick pressures on
his own. The Seahawks actually, you know, struggled other than
really Derek Hall to get like a ton of quick pressure.
But for the most part, like they were better. I
thought cam Ward like for one game, like outplayed Sam
Darnald by just a little bit. But we shouldn't give
too much credit. Seattle had a big lead in this game.

(01:04:55):
They did what good teams need to do, and they
did give the ball to Kenneth Walker a little more
or he played a higher percentage of snaps today, which
I was interested to see. He had two thirds of
the snaps and two thirds of the touches, and going
into the week, they kind of said that that was
what's gonna happen, so they might be kind of riding
ken Walker. And they ran the ball quite well today
against the Titans. So they take care of business. Only

(01:05:18):
uh three losses on the season, eight and three for
the Seahawks. Let's take a break and uh we will
be back on the other side. We have not checked
in with the New England Patriots.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
The Bengals in a two by two set set me
down in five lockoes under center the veteran quarterback with
a play fake and.

Speaker 4 (01:05:43):
A deep drop a lot of time double back kickball
for upside fifteen to ten, Come on around back over
the end zone.

Speaker 5 (01:05:51):
Let's mark as Jones.

Speaker 12 (01:05:52):
I never picked six against six and thirty.

Speaker 5 (01:05:57):
Oh boy, I don't look you up.

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
It's amazing how quickty ten fick.

Speaker 5 (01:06:01):
You needed the touchdown on offense, you needed a getoff
on defense.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
Oh that's Scott Zolek on w b Z along with
Bob Sochi. The Marcus Jones Pro Bowl season continues apace.
He also had the game ceiling pass defense on the
very last play of the game. Yes, the Cincinnati Bengals

(01:06:26):
were in it until the last play of the game,
but the Patriots escaped twenty six to twenty and Joe
Flacco and all the magic that he's brought is, you know,
come back to Earth. They don't want to pick on
him too much. But on a day where the Bengals
defense showed up, shook and got a lot of stops
in the red zone, especially on the one yard line,

(01:06:47):
the Bengals offense without Jamar Chase and then without T
Higgins late in the game wasn't up for the challenge.

Speaker 8 (01:06:54):
Yeah, there was even a bad sequence in the fourth
quarter where yoshavask goes down Andrey Yoshvasco's down. The next played,
t Higgins goes down and you're like, oh man, what
else do the Bengals have to deal with. It's already
a rough day for them offensively, but you know, not
to start negative and everything. But that's kind of the
story of the game, is that their defense gave them chances.
They made it tough for Drake May and the Patriots
offense throughout most of the day, and the Bengals offense

(01:07:16):
simply couldn't capitalize. Now, that pick six that we just
played was Joe Flacco's second pick six in as many weeks,
and each of them are equally as ugly, which kind
of just captures where the Bengals offense is right now.
And in games in which their defense does show up
and their offense fails to show up or at least
do their part, that explains why they've lost both of
those games and why they're three to eight right now. Now.

(01:07:36):
On the Patriots side, you give them credit because Drake May,
they got enough done in the first half to be
able to just kind of chip away with the field goals,
but they need to look really inward here going forward
at their red zone offense, because it was bad today.
They had a sequence of nine plays, six of which
were on the Bengals one, and they didn't get any
points out of it. They went back down there again

(01:07:57):
four plays, the last one field goal because Mike Frabele
learned from the earlier go for an attempt and decided,
let's just take the points.

Speaker 5 (01:08:04):
Three points counts. Patrick.

Speaker 9 (01:08:05):
It's a good thing he took the points, because that's
what they won by six.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
It was a rage field goal decision. You look over
the camera cuts to Mike Rabel to see what he's
going to do. He's already got three fingers up and
very frustrated fashion because they it wasn't just a goal
on stop on third down end goal on the previous
goal one stand, they got a they got a holding penalty,
They gave him first and goal again.

Speaker 3 (01:08:27):
At the one, and they still didn't get it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
They had seven snaps total from the one because there
was one other one on the ensuing drive that they
got from the one. They didn't score one time. And
that's why I worry for this Patriots team, which is
ten and two but lost the left side of their
offensive line to injuries today. Jared Wilson, you know, their
their third round pick who's been playing left guard for

(01:08:50):
them and has had his shaff struggles this year, is
carted off today with an injury, and then Will Campbell
is carted off with the knee injury. He had the
towel over his head as he was carded off. It
didn't look good. We're not going to speculate at this point,
but obviously if they lose both those guys, especially Campbell,

(01:09:11):
who has stabilized that left tackle and been playing really
solid for them, they could be in trouble. Because I
saw something written about this game that's, like, you know,
the Patriots rookies have helped to change their offensive line
from embarrassing to above average this season, and now they'll
be tested, and I'm like, they're not above average.

Speaker 5 (01:09:30):
They've been bad.

Speaker 1 (01:09:31):
Will Campbell's probably been their best player at left tackle,
but they've just gone from by far the league's worst
to like acceptable in parts. But their running game has
been terrible for a reason, and it's their offensive line.
The red zone offense you mentioned today and Drake May
entering this week, has faced the second most amount of
quick pressures in the entire NFL. Only the Chargers have

(01:09:53):
been worse in terms of quick pressures. So these injuries
I think really calls into question how they going to
construct an offense moving forward.

Speaker 8 (01:10:02):
Yeah, absolutely, especially when you can't consistently run the ball.
And now you've lost half of your offensive line, so
you're definitely not gonna be able to consistently run the ball.

Speaker 9 (01:10:08):
It's just going to put more on the shoulders of.

Speaker 8 (01:10:09):
Drake May, which to this point he's been able to
handle it, and you give him credit for that, but
I think today was the first preview of what it
might look like if he's not able to handle it,
or if the road is just too bumpy for him
to find you a steady rhythm, because that's basically what
this entire offense was in the second half, him missing throws,
him being pressured and rolling out and not having time
to throw or find somebody, people not getting open. The

(01:10:30):
one time he throws a touchdown pass in the end zone,
it's a product of an offensive pass interference because it's
a pick play. Like these are challenges that they're going
to encounter going forward. If they are limited offensively, too
much is going to be on their quarterback, and that
is why you should be concerned about them. But I'm
not going to take away from the fact that the
first team to ten wins in the NFL. All right,
I'll give that that credit.

Speaker 3 (01:10:49):
Now.

Speaker 5 (01:10:49):
That's amazing. And the Bills lose earlier in the week.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
They're up a two and a half games in the standings,
a couple games in the lost column. Those games against
the Bills and Ravens like looking even more interesting coming up.
But I think they're going to have to have their
their defense step up. It's it's not just about, you know,
one side of the ball. I think they could do it.
They did get kesh On Booty back today and Ramandre
Stevenson back today and they made it work. And the Bengals,

(01:11:14):
who might get Joe Burrow back on Thanksgiving just just
to enter is massive.

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
Yes, Niggaly Booty is massive, Greg, as you know, his
return helps. As you know, a team that has relied
on explosive plays didn't didn't get very many today. I
thought there was gonna be a great opportunity with the matchup,
but as you mentioned, al Golden's defense stood strong and
the gift basket may need to go from Voxborough to

(01:11:41):
Jalen Ramsey for being involved in this situation where if
Jamar Chase is in this game because should pointed it out,
Yoshi goes down, there's no Higgins relying heavily on Mitch
Tinsley in the fourth quarter, who did have a touchdown
catch where if if Joe has more options that he's
not looking staring down the chick in the flat for
Marcus Jones to take the other way.

Speaker 3 (01:12:03):
This game is entirely.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
Different preseason superstar Mitch Tinsley. That's why you watch the
games in August, man. Yeah, and it's unfortunately we will
almost certainly won't get to see t Higgins on Thanksgiving.

Speaker 5 (01:12:17):
Jamar Chase will be eligible to be back.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
T Higgins' mom did tweet out that it that she thought,
you know, her son was okay, and by that, I
think just like feeling okay.

Speaker 3 (01:12:27):
But it would be.

Speaker 1 (01:12:28):
Surprising, you know, if he goes through the protocol quick
enough to play on Thursday night, so they'll have that
game against the Ravens. Let's go to Arizona, the game
that truly made Patrick lose his mind.

Speaker 19 (01:12:40):
They're not showing blitz, they said for here we go
to set off to throw lookie lookie fars the jeep downfield.

Speaker 5 (01:12:46):
That pole is going to be not the way, not the.

Speaker 9 (01:12:50):
Way, look the way to jack winning.

Speaker 5 (01:12:53):
It over time with another torific defensive play. All these
cardiac cats they win it again. I you win on
the roads for the jackson Bill Jaguar.

Speaker 1 (01:13:06):
They're back to being fun. Then it certainly was messy
twenty seven to twenty four in just like a connoisseur's delight.
To me, this was a delightful game. I can't wait
to watch it a little closer. Frank Frangie on wj
XL watched it extremely close, and yes, the Jaguars defense

(01:13:29):
bails out Liam Cohen and Trevor Lawrence who had four
turnovers on the day, and they escaped the desert with
a victory to get them to seven and four. But Patrick,
I do want to hear about the decision making process
late in the game and what you thought of Liam

(01:13:51):
Cohen and his fourth and one call.

Speaker 2 (01:13:53):
Liam Cohen and the Jacksonville Jaguars late in the fourth
quarter have an opportunity fourth and one to kick a
field goal and go up six late and the models,
both models, both widely distributed models, had a slim margin,
but still a margin in favor of going for it.
Liam Cohen ultimately decides to have Trevor Lawrence throw the

(01:14:16):
ball to Tim Patrick and it's incomplete with a minute
and forty three seconds to go, so instead of a
six point lead with a minute forty it is now
a three point lead, and Jacoby Brissett promptly goes down
the field. They get Chad Ryland on a kick and
the game goes to overtime.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
I got to throw at the end zone. I loved
that little game management. By the way, Jacoby Presett does
not spike the ball with about fifteen seconds left. Instead,
he runs the call there. I thought that was a
veteran move and tries to get the defense not really
ready for it. He gets a one on one on
the side. It doesn't work out, but yeah, it was.

(01:14:54):
It was a little next level. I think you got
to look at the game in front of you, and
I think that was what's frustrating you, because for the
most part, the Jaguars defense was playing pretty well in
this game, and all they had to do is stop
the Cardinals from scoring a touchdown with no timeouts.

Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
And we've seen the impact that having more of their guys.
Of course, they're missing incredible amounts of pieces, including the
guy they traded up for in the top ten of
the NFL draft.

Speaker 3 (01:15:20):
We hope to get back.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
But Devin Lloyd back in this game, who actually knocked
Jacoby Brissett out of the game briefly, but because he's
Jacoby Brissett and has his jersey in Canton, Ohio, he
summons the will to come back into the game and
be very successful.

Speaker 5 (01:15:35):
I have QB hits for Devin Lloyd.

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
He's all over the place, does everything for this defense
where I would understand trusting the defense where Josh heinz
Allen is having a solid game getting pressure, the Cardinals
dealing with injuries of their own on offense, and the
Jacks have been getting off the field. And it's one
of those very frustrating games on the Jags offense where

(01:15:59):
you get both good Trevor and bad Trevor trading places
during the game. There was one interception in the red zone.
I understand Kalais Campbell's been playing football for two hundred
and fifty years. He jumps up, tips the ball, it
gets picked off. Those types of things happen. Yes, the
other two Trevor Lawrence interceptions were downright nasty and kept
the Cardinals in the game where it's a weird dichotomy

(01:16:21):
because they had a whole lot of success running the
ball early, including with Trevor Lawrence, and late in the
game you get that interception. They come back, Trevor and
Jacoby Myers hook up on back to back plays and
get a touchdown, and it's like, yay, Jack's passing game.
Next possession is a turnover where you're just not sure
how this passing game is going to operate.

Speaker 1 (01:16:41):
I don't know what to think of this Jaguars team.
They had a design run success rate today of twenty percent.
Their running game was awful, So everyone's so mad at
the play call on fourth and one, rolling Trevor Lawrence out.
They did call a running play on third and one
in Baseil Twoton, who I think is the better short
yardage back, gets stuffed. So their offensive line is just struggling.

(01:17:02):
But that's why you just kick the field goal there.
I think because of this situation, Trevor Lawrence has not
shown you that he can be trusted. He doesn't even
have an open receiver there. I mean to watch that
must have felt so helpless for a Jaguars team. And
then you watch Jacoby Brissett do what Jacoby Brissett does
and overcome the Zebras who gave them a terrible spot

(01:17:22):
which cost them about forty seconds on the final drive
because they didn't mark it as a first down and
then they had to go for a fourth down and
instead of being able to spike the ball, it was
a whole thing.

Speaker 5 (01:17:33):
And then you know, he gets down and at least
has a chance to go win the game.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
But when I watched this ending sequence two shook, I thought, like,
Jonathan Gannon is a defense first coach, and I know
they forced some turnovers today, but they never get.

Speaker 5 (01:17:48):
The stop that they need.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
It sucks because they keep losing close games but they
never get the stop that they need.

Speaker 8 (01:17:53):
It's the story of their season, the fourth quarter woes,
and today was the fourth quarter in overtime woes. It
was a really fun game because it was very bad
and forth in the final quarter. But that's not what
you expect from your team when you have a defensive
minded coach like Jonathan Yahn. That's not what I expect.
When I look at the Cardinals week by week and
make my picks, I go, well, you know what, at
least I trust their defense, and now it's Jacoby Brissett,
so I trust him to give maximum effort and maybe

(01:18:13):
throw them into situations in which they could potentially win.

Speaker 9 (01:18:16):
But then it's the fourth quarter problem.

Speaker 8 (01:18:18):
It's you can't trust them in the final period, which
is what happened for them today. Although it was really
nice to see Greg dors get loose and move them
into field goal range. I thought I was kind of
hoping they would spike it or something, just to give
himself maybe one core shot the end zone before kicking
the field goal.

Speaker 1 (01:18:33):
But it's fine, Okay, I see what you're saying. You
could have maybe gotten two throws there, and yet well.

Speaker 9 (01:18:38):
Lined up with like sixteen seconds.

Speaker 5 (01:18:40):
I was like, bike it, come on.

Speaker 1 (01:18:42):
Okay, Okay, I think I get what he was thinking,
though I think he saw like they're a little frazzled
trying to get set up.

Speaker 5 (01:18:48):
But I hear what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (01:18:49):
And Patrick and I had a long conversation about Greg
Dortsch in the newsroom, where I said Greg Dortsch is
a championship level fourth receiver. Like if you get dorts
as your fourth receiver, you build everything out backwards from there.

Speaker 5 (01:19:05):
He can get you to the ship. So the Cardinals
at least.

Speaker 2 (01:19:08):
They have that, they have that foundational piece of a
receiving group, which is Greg Dorson is the one.

Speaker 5 (01:19:12):
And who knows, maybe the Cleveland Browns have a foundational quarterback. Okay,
I'm just little funny.

Speaker 20 (01:19:19):
Win shot out Sampson in you never know it's possible, shouting,
geto the backfield here it's a three by one. Shador
on third down, throws at Sampson to the flat Sampson
thirty five, Sampson forty, Sampson first down.

Speaker 5 (01:19:32):
He's on the raid of thirty five. Get to put.

Speaker 6 (01:19:34):
Ray's gone, Dylan Sampson touchdown, and that is a LONGUS
play of the year.

Speaker 9 (01:19:43):
For your Cleveland brown sixty six yards to the house.

Speaker 11 (01:19:48):
Nill at Sampson's second receiving touchdown, and for Shador Sanders
the first passing touchdown of his young NFL career.

Speaker 1 (01:19:57):
Ooh, we haven't heard from andrews Ciciliano and too long
he Andrew Nathan Zigura also on the call for wk
RK Browns win easy twenty four to ten in Vegas. Yes,
Shadar Sanders the first rookie quarterback, or maybe it's debut
quarterback for the Browns to.

Speaker 5 (01:20:17):
Win in the last eighteen attempts.

Speaker 3 (01:20:21):
Wow, it's a wild stack.

Speaker 8 (01:20:22):
You know how old I was when they had a
quarterback win his debut?

Speaker 3 (01:20:25):
Old?

Speaker 5 (01:20:26):
How old?

Speaker 8 (01:20:27):
I think?

Speaker 3 (01:20:27):
It was?

Speaker 12 (01:20:27):
Two?

Speaker 5 (01:20:28):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:20:29):
Uh No, Shouldar didn't have to do a ton of
the heavy lifting obviously on that play it's a lot
of yak. But he did have a beautiful throw early
in the game. Quin Shaw juggins with a couple rushing touchdowns,
and more importantly, the defense just dominates the Raiders. What
did you see out of shadur Nick will start there?

Speaker 8 (01:20:48):
Well, I anticipated a nasty game between two two and
eight teams, and we got a bit of a nasty game.
But what wasn't nasty was Shador. He looked better than
he did in relief last week. You could tell that
the week of preparation gave him confidence. He got the
ball out on time. He didn't hold onto it very
long except for maybe one or two plays, which is
very encouraging because that was his biggest weak point.

Speaker 9 (01:21:07):
He showed off his arm.

Speaker 8 (01:21:08):
The throw he has, it's like a fifty two yard
at Isaiah Bond That sets up a quinch on Judkins touchdown,
rolling right away from pressure, fires it on the run
over the dB perfectly puts it on Bond for the
big completion That was at that point their longest play
of the season before the Samson touchdown. So I thought
that he executed it in spots. It was uneven, It
was pretty inconsistent. The offense is still a mess, it's

(01:21:30):
still dysfunctional. They still are a low ceiling unit. But
ultimately he steadied them enough and did enough things. Made
one bad mistake on an interception that's very typical of
a rookie. So I say, decent, solid, good thing to
build on, not a nightmare, which is more than they
could say about most of their season.

Speaker 1 (01:21:47):
Yeah, and more than you can say about this Raider season.
You don't want to go too crazy on a day.
Their drop back success rate the Browns was twenty three percent,
Like they weren't consistently do it.

Speaker 5 (01:21:56):
But he did have a thirty nine yarder to Judy.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
You mentioned that play to Bond, which which is almost
a replay of the chance he had to tie the
game late last week to Isaiah Bonnie. He missed it
last week, he hits it today. Miles Garrett is doing
unspeakable things on the football field. A couple more sacks today?
Was it two forced fumbles? What is it like watching

(01:22:18):
Miles Garrett right now as a Browns fan?

Speaker 8 (01:22:21):
Well, it's interesting because you know Brown's fans in the
moment when they trade it out of two back to
five and took Mason Graham, a lot of them were
upset because they wanted Travis Hunter, they wanted the new toy.
But I think that they're all pretty happy with the
decision that they made now because Mason Graham, his arrival,
has brought this defensive line to a higher level, better
than they were when they had Zadaria Smith and Miles Garrett,

(01:22:41):
when they had Jadevian Clowney and Miles Garrett, because now
there's interior pressure that is consistent, and especially against an
offensive line that's really bad in the Raiders, I mean horrible,
worse than you would ever imagine bad. And then you
deploy Miles Garrett against that and it's like watching a
monster just feast, just do whatever he wants, just destroy
a left tackle, line up over the center and shoot

(01:23:02):
the a gap. Cause all kinds of problems for Gino
Smith make his day awful. Ten total sacks for the Browns.
Miles Garrett had three. He has eighteen eighteen with six
games to play, like he's gonna break the record.

Speaker 5 (01:23:15):
He's a little bit don't risk.

Speaker 9 (01:23:18):
I'm saying he never care. I don't care. I don't
care he's gonna break it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:21):
So Reggie White Ones had nineteen sacks through the first
eleven games of the season. That was in nineteen eighty seven.
The previous record holder Mark Gastino had seventeen and a
half sacks. And of course, yes, Garrett gets more games
to play with to try to break Michael straight Hands record.
He also had four TFLs today, so he is on
an insane tackle for loss rate two and it was

(01:23:44):
three total sacks. I only saw the two forced fumbles,
but he had another one. And yeah, this season just
can't fast enough for the Raiders.

Speaker 3 (01:23:52):
They're getting worse screct Ye.

Speaker 5 (01:23:54):
They're the worst team in the NFL. They're worse than
the Titans.

Speaker 3 (01:23:57):
It's not even close where I was.

Speaker 2 (01:24:00):
That was my thoughts because I know everybody was excited
about the opportunity to see should or play, see Miles
Garrett play against the worst offensive line that I have
ever seen.

Speaker 3 (01:24:08):
I truly think.

Speaker 2 (01:24:09):
I believe at this point in the NFL, I have
not seen an offensive line worse than this. And miles
average get off is still, you know, at twenty nine
years old, zero seven to one today, still getting off
the line of scrimmage faster than anybody. And you know,
this line is overmatched everywhere, but definitely overmatched with the
best defensive player that you know, since since JJ Watt

(01:24:32):
was doing things, since Aaron Donald was wrecking things, it's
not even close. Miles is shouldn't be on the same
field disease, guys.

Speaker 5 (01:24:40):
That's absolutely fair. So the Browns three and eight, but
they are two and zero.

Speaker 1 (01:24:44):
In Kevin Stefanski hot seat matchups, he had that one
against May McDaniel where I thought, maybe the loser gets
fired and they blew out the Dolphins, but they didn't
fire McDaniel, and then beats Pete Carroll, who is not
having much fun in Vegas. Let's go to New Orleans
where no one who was rooting for the home team
was having any fun.

Speaker 5 (01:25:05):
It's yours cousins, looking, He's gonna sil.

Speaker 6 (01:25:08):
It for Mooney, Dunhill Mooney touchdown Atlanta.

Speaker 12 (01:25:12):
Oh my goodness, there were two block Shirts back there
thought they had.

Speaker 17 (01:25:16):
Good position and Cousins dropped it in a bucket to
Darnell Mooney.

Speaker 5 (01:25:22):
Big time throw from Kirk Cousins.

Speaker 1 (01:25:25):
Oh, you can't came Kirk Cousins down for too long, Patrick,
No matter what you want to do, that's Wes Durham
on WZGC. The Falcons win twenty four to ten on
a day where, yes, their defense was the best unit
on the field. The Saints' offense only scores three points.
They get their only touchdown on a pick six right

(01:25:46):
by Kirk Cousins. Wasn't there a pick six in this game?

Speaker 5 (01:25:48):
Or am I crazy?

Speaker 3 (01:25:49):
Yeah? No, Cousins.

Speaker 5 (01:25:50):
Cousins threw a pick six, and thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:25:52):
They got the score and they had chances Greg, but
they elected to to not score him do anything.

Speaker 5 (01:25:58):
That's true. They elected to kick a field goal late.

Speaker 1 (01:26:02):
But yeah, there was a fourth down that they went
for where Taysom Hill threw the ball instead of kicking
a field goal.

Speaker 5 (01:26:09):
That didn't work.

Speaker 1 (01:26:10):
Look, we pick a lot of games throughout the course
of the season, and we're going to be wrong so often.
But for some reason, I feel like you picking the
Saints to win this game, Patrick, drove you more crazy
than any pick you made all season.

Speaker 5 (01:26:23):
Yes, you were chugging hater aide as.

Speaker 1 (01:26:25):
Kirk Cousins was piloting a two play sequence where they
got eighty one yards off of a second and twenty four.
That touchdown to Mooney was preceded by like a forty
yard screen to Beajon Robinson.

Speaker 2 (01:26:37):
Yeah, the screen came on second and twenty one because
Kirk the pressure got to the Saints get pressure on
Kirk Cousins, and it looked like typical twenty twenty five
Kirk Cousins where he wasn't sure what to do. The
pressure came, he threw the ball to absolutely nobody. The
Saints lobbying Brian Brecy arms out to the stripes where
the referees do that thing where they have the long discussion,

(01:26:58):
and then they dropped the flag out thinking the Saints
got a chance, they got a chance. They get off
the field here, they'll go back down and they're going
to score this time. No, it's a screen to Bajon
and then immediately Darnell Mooney and Kirk Cousins like dust off.
It looks like prime Darnell Mooney and prime Kirk Cousins,
where it's like, what are you doing, Saints? What are
the Saints doing it?

Speaker 1 (01:27:16):
I love I love Kirk was kind of like gearing
back to get everything into that throat, and uh, they
get a win, which you know for the season they had.
Anyone is going to feel good four and seven for
the Saints. I mean for the Falcons and the Saints fans.
After that touchdown, they all just left. If if if
you're I was watching that late in the game, and

(01:27:39):
like when they hit that touchdown to go up two touchdowns,
there's about ten minutes left, and it's not like you're
really trying to beat traffic in New Orleans, like you're
walking out of there or just the traffic's not that bad,
it's fine. Uh, but people are just like, no, I've
had enough of the New Orleans Saints and just a
sad performance. Tyler Shuck SHOOKI was the leading rusher on
the day where Alvin Kamara left the game pretty early

(01:28:01):
to injury. They had nothing going whatsoever on the ground.
Taysom went ten carries for seventeen yards.

Speaker 9 (01:28:08):
Yeah, can we end this already?

Speaker 8 (01:28:10):
I'm pretty sure we've graduated from the Taysom Hill experience
as a ball career.

Speaker 9 (01:28:13):
I think we've proven that in previous weeks.

Speaker 8 (01:28:15):
Whenever Tyler shuck, a guy who can improvise is your
leading rusher, but is not the leading rusher that you
want to run like the Titans want cam Ward to run.

Speaker 9 (01:28:24):
You know you're in a bad place.

Speaker 8 (01:28:26):
But when I look at this team defensively and I think, well,
how do you give up twenty four points to Kirk
Cousins and Darnell Mooney in the Atlanta Falcons and Bijon
Robinson helber player. But here's how Because I look at
this group of players and all I see is the
twenty ten, twenty eleven Cleveland Cavaliers, where it's Baron Davis
and Luke Harron Godi and Sean Livingston getting his last

(01:28:46):
shot at the NBA which ends up getting him a
spot with the Warriors. Like it's a bunch of no names,
this is a Saints team that is very clearly in
a transition period right now.

Speaker 3 (01:28:54):
Shout up with Luke aret Gody.

Speaker 2 (01:28:56):
I just think I would ever hear about if you
had not said his name, I would have never thought
about Luke Aeron Gody. Ever, again, my issue with the
Taysom experience today is it was all the highest leverage
plays in the game. Yeah, it was fourth and one
in the red zone and a gold to go situation.
And then yeah, let's get shuck out of here. Let's
get Taysom to come in and throw a pass. He's
zero for two through the air in this game where

(01:29:20):
it's not sneaking up on anybody at this point. When
Taysom Hill comes in, it's not, oh no, what are
the Saints gonna do. It's the Taysom Hill package in
the same Taysom Hill package, now under three different coaching regimes,
where it's the same Taysom Hill package, and let's let's
get rid of it. I don't want to see Taysom
Hill package anymore.

Speaker 5 (01:29:39):
No, I don't. It's I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:29:41):
Kellen Moore has got that special connection. He's got that
he's got that loyalty to his brother, and he just
he just keeps giving it, giving him the ball man.
Kellen Moore just not inspiring in his first Saints season.
Let's take one final break and we'll get to a
team that's been pretty inspiring all season. Yes, it's the

(01:30:02):
Los Angeles Rams. We're gonna say goodbye to Patrick Bye.
Everybody go say hello to the children.

Speaker 3 (01:30:07):
I shall Stafford the pistol has to go up and
over his left shoulder to.

Speaker 5 (01:30:18):
Catch the snap locks.

Speaker 19 (01:30:20):
One zoe is a touchdown, Devontae Adams racing underneath another.
Matthew Stafford's got twenty four yards and you can let
those MVP chants bring in again. It's one, two, three
for Matthew Stafford and Debunte's gut too. Oh, it's back

(01:30:44):
to a three store lead. Matthew to the bonte.

Speaker 5 (01:30:48):
They are sizzily, They are sizzly. You know who else is?
Sisley jav Long on KSPN.

Speaker 1 (01:30:55):
I met grunting in the background. Our friend Maurice Jones
drew the Rams. Make it a laugher on Sunday night
football thirty or to seven, Yes, if it's a day
that ends, and why DeVante Adams is scoring a touchdown
often two And this thing not only was over at
halftime thirty one to seven.

Speaker 5 (01:31:16):
At halftime, there was not much more to play. We
just got a field goal in the second half and
we were killing time.

Speaker 1 (01:31:21):
Took because Baker Mayfield was out with a left shoulder injury.
More on that in a second, But this was a
night I don't think it would have mattered if Baker
was healthy or not. In fact, he was healthy until
they were down three touchdowns. Man, When the Rams offense
is looking good, and they've looked great in the first

(01:31:43):
quarter of these games for over a month now, it
just seems like no one can stop them.

Speaker 8 (01:31:48):
Yeah, and then you add in a pick six of
fifty yards and it's like, oh, now, you just put
that on the board as well.

Speaker 9 (01:31:54):
They do feel.

Speaker 8 (01:31:55):
Unstoppable at times, especially you know, against opponents that struggle
to give them resistance. This is not the Seahawks game,
but it is. I mean, it's another example of how
good this offense can be. Like it honestly feels vindicating.
It feels like justice has been served to DeVante Adams
for the time that he spent in Vegas with the Raiders,
because now he is in the perfect He's in football

(01:32:16):
Heaven with Matthew Stafford. They're just making beautiful music art
every weekend and we all get to sit back and
watch it.

Speaker 9 (01:32:24):
And sometimes it'sdn't blow out fashion like this.

Speaker 5 (01:32:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:32:27):
And maybe the best catch he made all night was
actually called back by a penalty, a leaping grab he
made in the second half he did have one drop.
I swear he said more drops with the Rams than
any other time in his career. But he keeps getting
it done, and the MVP conversation put it on the board.
Patrick Claibahn, wherever you are tonight, is only going to

(01:32:47):
help with Stafford getting those three touchdowns in the first
half and that drive. That touchdown that we just heard shook.
It just shows you how they can do anything they
want to do with the Rams because the Bucks are
trailing twenty one nothing. You mentioned the pick six that's
on a play where kateat and essentially drops the ball

(01:33:08):
as he's going to his knees and Kobe Durant steals
it from him. Look like he might have been down,
but by the letter of the law, I guess he
got to do a football move and Durant returns it
the other way, and so it's it looks like a
blow out early, but the Bucks finally get a touchdown
on the drive where Mayfield actually hurt his left shoulder,
but they get it to twenty one to seven, and

(01:33:29):
then literally just four plays later, it's like a three
yard run and then it's Pooka up the seam for
like twenty four yards, it's Momfield for fourteen and then
a dime to DeVante Adams. So they can be explosive
or they can turn the running game. And their success
rate was through the roof, and I think that gets
lost a little bit that the run for me, for

(01:33:50):
the Rams sets up the pass. Obviously the past is
the most important thing, but they are in favorable situation
so often because of the run.

Speaker 3 (01:33:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:33:57):
Absolutely, And it all goes back to Kyen Willy and
the role that he plays in this offense. But it's
not just that.

Speaker 8 (01:34:02):
It's the offensive line and how they've been very cohesive
this year, whether it's protecting Matthew Stafford or opening running lanes,
it's really allowing Sean mcvady get creative with how they
want to run the ball. And then beyond Kira Williams
in Blake Koram and we've enjoyed a little bit of
a difference in style. Where Korm's more of a north south,
less vision type of runner. Kyron obviously more dynamic, able
to you know, find lanes and run through them. And

(01:34:23):
I think it just fills out this offense. Like you
bring in Devonte Adams and you put him next to
Pooka Nakua. You have a very good one two receiver
tandem Kyram Williams and Blake korm solid one two running tandem.
And when it all marries together under Sean mcvay's vision,
this is what it looks like.

Speaker 1 (01:34:38):
Right in the difference this year, more than any year,
I feel like it's it's a difference making defense. So
the Rams get six quarterback hits, four sacks, seven tackles
for loss, and ten passes defense against Baker Mayfield and
Teddy Bridgewater, who you know was not Jameis Winston coming
off the bench in the second half. But Baker Mayfield

(01:35:00):
then the first half, goes nine for nineteen for forty
one yards. He has those two interceptions, one obviously not
his fault. But what shouldn't get lost is, you know,
on plays, you know, other than that interception, they were
still averaging about two and a half yards per pass
and against the pressure, I believe he was zero for

(01:35:21):
four when they blitzed him, he was like one for
five and took a sack. The pass rush was just awesome,
whether it was Verse or Kobe Turner. And then Baker
hurts it his shoulder and he didn't really show it
at first on a run and he follows it up
with a couple of nice passes.

Speaker 5 (01:35:39):
But you see him win.

Speaker 1 (01:35:40):
See after they get a touchdown, and you remember, I
believe I guess I'll put you on the spot.

Speaker 5 (01:35:45):
You remember how Baker's career ended in Cleveland, right.

Speaker 9 (01:35:48):
Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, it was. It was the twenty
twenty one season.

Speaker 8 (01:35:51):
It was after he letend of the playoffs and their
first playoff win since they'd returned in ninety nine. And
he was playing through multiple injuries that year, and the
first one was the left shoulder, which ended being a
torn laboram that didn't require surgery, but as somebody who's
torn both of his laborums and had surgery on one
of them, that surgery is not super successful anyway, and
it's not an injury that you can just like rehab away.
And he gets annoying and he gets painful and bothersome

(01:36:13):
even when you're not actively using it as you're throwing shoulder. Now,
we don't know what happened to him this time, but
he's got a history of having injuries with that shoulder,
and that's what contributed to his downfall with the Browns.

Speaker 5 (01:36:23):
It was that it was a knee.

Speaker 8 (01:36:24):
He struggled that year while playing through those injuries, and
it bumps me out for him because this team is
so banged up already. They're missing multiple receivers. Their offensive
line has been a shuffling act all year. They haven't
had Bucky Irving for a considerable stretch of time. Now,
and then your quarterback, the guy who has been basically
carrying you in most weeks and propelling your offense forward
through scenarios in which most quarterbacks wouldn't get you to

(01:36:47):
the other side. Now he's banged up. And you saw
what happened tonight. You take him out of the equation
when he's already banged up and they're just a non
competitive offense.

Speaker 1 (01:36:55):
Yeah, and look they were without Jabell Dean, their best
cornerback tonight. Bucky Irvy and who you mentioned, Hassan Reddick
was out, and you know, the Rams start a new
right tackle, Warren McLendon. They put Rob Havenstein on injured reserve.
You didn't notice any difference. That's one area where like
Hassan Reddick could possibly help. You're missing your two starting
guards from week one. I kind of forgot during the

(01:37:17):
week when I said they're only missing one guard, I
forget Cody Mock's already out for the season. So yeah,
just a lot of issues and they're falling to six
and five, and we're right back to where we tend
to be, which is the NFC South winner is probably
going to be the four seed. And yes, the Bucks
schedule gets much easier the rest of the way, but
they're out of point, especially if Baker's not one hundred percent,
where no win is going to be assured. Meanwhile, the

(01:37:39):
Rams are the one seed and in a week where
they put Hanstein, Quinton Lake, and Tyler Higbee on injured reserve, look,
they look so deep there.

Speaker 5 (01:37:49):
Tight ends were so important in this game.

Speaker 1 (01:37:52):
You know, you get Kolbe Parkinson for a touchdown, Davis
Allen gets Loose for three catches, and this is just
a really complete team. And to me, for the Rams,
it's all gonna be about weeks fifteen and sixteen. In
a five day period, they will play the Lions and
then they'll play the Seahawks on a Thursday night, and

(01:38:12):
that's gonna to me really decide whether they are the
one seed or who knows Seattle might be able to
run this table too, and it could all come down
to that Week sixteen game that's in the future. This
team is maybe the best Sean McVay team we have
seen yet, to the point where him and Stafford are
getting into it and mcvay's getting mad at like thirty
one to seven. Did you see that, where like Stafford

(01:38:35):
missed a couple throws and they're like yelling at each.

Speaker 8 (01:38:37):
Other, at which point that Matt Matthew Stafford probably shouldn't
even be in the game, Like, just take them out,
because the biggest key for me is once they get
to that week fifteen sixteen point, how healthy can you
be when you get there? That's what's most important, all right,
So they're nine and two before we leave for the day.
We did have some breaking news as we were watching
this game. Chip Kelly is out as the Las Vegas

(01:39:02):
Raiders offensive coordinator. So Patrick Claybon has been just killing
Chip Kelly week after week all season long.

Speaker 5 (01:39:10):
I feel like he was first.

Speaker 1 (01:39:11):
Maybe Pete Carroll was first, but Patrick Claybon was second,
and it felt weird that he is not on the
show for this.

Speaker 5 (01:39:17):
So we're gonna do an NFL Daily first. Jock We're
gonna call Claybon.

Speaker 1 (01:39:23):
Right now, just on my phone. I mean, he's not
gonna pop up. I never call him on the phone,
so he might not answer. We'll see if this works.
Maybe we'll even edit it out. I got to put
this thing on speaker and we'll see how this goes.

Speaker 9 (01:39:37):
Is this the first time you've called somebody while you're
not driving?

Speaker 5 (01:39:40):
Patrick? This is Greg.

Speaker 1 (01:39:42):
You are on NFL Daily right now? Are you free
to talk? You are on NFL Daily? Are you aware
that the Raiders have been watching the show and that
they have fired Chip Kelly?

Speaker 5 (01:39:54):
Tonight?

Speaker 21 (01:39:55):
You know what, Greg, I appreciate not just Tom Brady's
commitment to being an NFL list an NFL Daily note listener,
but Pete Carroll clearly the It had nothing to do
with the output, the ability UH to all to be watchable,
to be fun. This was purely reaction to our continued

(01:40:17):
conversation regarding Chip Kelly, which comes to a sad and
empty ending.

Speaker 1 (01:40:22):
Tonight, You're you are such a pro I mean, you
had that answer ready. I'm fumbling around trying to put
it on speaker. You have this thing answered before I
even get there. What did you think I was possibly
calling you about right now.

Speaker 7 (01:40:34):
Well, when you started a conversation with I am on
NFL Daily right now, my brain went to any number
of places where it's like.

Speaker 3 (01:40:44):
Recording. We finished recording the show.

Speaker 7 (01:40:46):
I'm watching Van Perino with my kids because you know,
another circumstance, it was concluded while we left the podcast studio,
and so yeah, this is this is big news, very
important news.

Speaker 3 (01:41:02):
It's Markee news. Right now.

Speaker 7 (01:41:03):
In November of twenty twenty five, Key is doing something
else for the remainder of the season, which congratulations to him,
because his previous thing was.

Speaker 3 (01:41:11):
Not going well.

Speaker 1 (01:41:12):
Yeah, honestly, it might not be the worst thing for him.
He's the highest paid offensive coordinator in the league. That
money is guaranteed, it goes on into future years. And
I now feel bad for interrupting your family time. Thank
you Patrick for chipping in as always, no thank you.

Speaker 7 (01:41:26):
Greg, and thanks to Chip Kelly for truly providing us
with something unique in twenty twenty five.

Speaker 3 (01:41:32):
It was great.

Speaker 5 (01:41:33):
Thanks see you man.

Speaker 8 (01:41:35):
Unique in the form of ten Zacks giving up to
the Browns today the first time in my memory that
I can see the Browns fire and getting someone fired
on the same day the.

Speaker 1 (01:41:45):
Raiders just keep cycling through head coaches so quickly, and
you got to think Pete Carroll, you know, is maybe
on the way out too. He had not fired a coordinator,
took in fourteen seasons during the season when he was
with Seattle.

Speaker 8 (01:42:02):
Now that he's fired two, he's fired too. To Patrick Graham,
keep an eye over your shoulder.

Speaker 5 (01:42:09):
Patrick Graham's doing the best that he can.

Speaker 1 (01:42:12):
All right, fun Sunday, I think we really crystallize what's
going on here in both conferences. It's really coming down
in both conferences. If you look at it to ten
teams for seven spots, and it's fascinating that the three
teams out right now in the AFC are Pittsburgh, Houston,
and Kansas City all at six and five, while you

(01:42:36):
know the Chargers, Jags, and Bills have the last three
spots at seven and four. We talked about the AFC
North before and then I think the same is basically
the case in the NFC. Ten teams for seven spots.
I'm including the Cowboys in that mix at five to
five and one, and we kind of have the Panthers
and the Bucks playing the roles of raven Steelers in

(01:42:57):
the NFC where just one team is getting that spot
and it's probably gotta be the four seed.

Speaker 8 (01:43:01):
It's all shaping up, shooky, it's all gonna change. It's
gonna change. I'm telling you, we're gonna get a lot
of movement in these.

Speaker 9 (01:43:07):
Next six weeks.

Speaker 1 (01:43:08):
Okay, looking forward to it. Let's get out of here
because we got another show to do soon enough. Monday
Night Football, as we do each and every week, my
parents are arriving on a plane during Monday Night Football,
was like, can we go live after Panthers forty nine
ers when the parents are a right, some things.

Speaker 5 (01:43:29):
Are more important than family.

Speaker 1 (01:43:30):
Panthers forty nine ers live on YouTube me and shook
see you then,

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Gregg Rosenthal

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