July 7, 2025 • 48 mins
Gregg Rosenthal is joined by NFL Network's Brian Baldinger to reveal numbers 15 through 12 of NFL Daily's Top 25 Players of the Last 25 Years. Gregg and Brian kick of this tier of players by talking about Pro Football Hall-of-Famer LaDainian Tomlinson at number 15 (0:50), followed by former Panthers LB Luke Kuechly at number 14 (10:20), Pro Football Hall-of-Famer Calvin Johnson at number 13 (22:10), and Pro Football Hall-of-Famer Joe Thomas at number 12 (32:13).
Note: time codes approximate.
Don't miss any of NFL Daily's Top 25 Players of the Last 25 Years where Gregg is joined by ESPN's Mina Kimes and Bill Barnwell, Yahoo! Sports' Nate Tice, NFL Network's Steve Wyche and Brian Baldinger and broadcasting legend Kevin Harlan to break down the best NFL players since the turn of the century.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to episode three of NFL Daily's twenty five Players
in twenty five Years. Yes, we are talking about the
best players of this century, and there is no one
I would rather talk to than Brian Baldinger of NFL Network. Baldy,
you've been covering the league this whole time. I'm going
(00:25):
back and watching some of the highlights. You're on the
Fox calls for some of these guys, and of course
you've been with us at the network, so a great
perspective that I know you'll give. And I had to
get you on a show where there will be an
offensive lineman. No spoilers yet, but there will be an
offensive lineman on this one.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
All right, well, well done. You can't have a list
without a few offensive linemen on. I know that.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Let's just get right to it.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
We're not starting with the lineman, but we are starting
with someone that I loved watching when I was starting
my career.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Out number fifteen, Ladanian Tomlinson. And the hand off to
Thomlinson left sun and he will.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Gallop into the unzone, charger fans or witnesses to history.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
The kid from Rosebud, Texas get done good.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I want to thank you for allowing us.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
To witness your greatness. Wow, what a player, what a
person we want to bring?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Y'all want to be?
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Jimps, What y'all want to be?
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Joe from the left hatch on second and four, A
little pitch pack to LT.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
He's looking at Crow George the enzone. Gates got it
cut down.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
That's why you're the greatest.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
That's why you're the greatest.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Ladaian Thomasson one of the best to ever do it.
He could run, he could catch, and heck you get
him on the move. He could throw a little bit
right there to Antonio Gates. Just an incredible career. There
was a six year stretch Baldy where he goes three
first team All Pros and three second team All Pros
mixed in there.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
And during that stretch he played.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
The running back position about as high a level as
I've ever seen anyone play it.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Well, you know, we've all got a chance to work
with them, Greg, so we know what kind of person is.
So you got to factor that into because just you
know the person, the quality of person, the team, ate
all that, but to get the god given talent, I mean,
there's so many flashback memories I remember Greg doing the
Senior Bowl his year coming out of TCU, And I
remember we were going to practice and I'm doing the
(02:30):
game for TNT. I'm walking down to practice with all
the guys, and the first person I see is number five.
It's Ladani and Thompson. I'll never forget it, Like he
just moved differently than everybody. So that like that was
my first memory visually of watching LT. Then I remember,
you know, Marty Schottenheimer was his coach for a while
(02:51):
with the Chargers, and I remember, you know, back when
veteran players, even star players used to play in the preseason. Greg,
I'll never forget like the first play of the game
of a Chargers preseason game, they flipped it to LT
and you know it was a touchback. You get the
ball to twenty yard line. He goes eighty yards off
right side, like literally eighty yards. Nobody touches them. He
(03:13):
lays the ball on the ground. Marty Schottenheimer waves them
over to the sideline says, you're done, not just done
for the day, but you're done for preseason. Eighty yards
one play. We've seen enough. Let's get ready for the season,
you know, I mean he's had a year. We had
one hundred catches in the season you mentioned, you know,
those first seven or eight years, Greg, he averaged four
(03:35):
hundred touches a year. Like you give any back in
this league over the last twenty five years, four hundred touches.
They were done the next year, Jamal Anderson, Sean Alexander
Duce mccows. So you go through a list of guys
four hundred touches, it like it really really breaks a
running back. LT just thrived on the volume of work
(03:59):
that he got, especially those first eight years.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Right, So the stats are crazy, and his first nine
seasons he scores nineteen more touchdowns than any player in
NFL history. And so that's the meat of a guy's career.
And even if you look at the whole career touchdowns
per game, only Jim Brown goes better than him. And
you're absolutely right about saying that he did it year
(04:23):
after year after year. I have to point it out
because I was in the industry at the time. He's
got to be the fantasy football go I actually went
and checked some stats and he had to be. Like
of this era, if you're giving points per reception, he
has the most fantasy points per reception of any of
these running backs by so much. It's ridiculous because you're
absolutely right, Like, usually you have a season like that
(04:47):
MVP season he had, and you mentioned what a great
person he was. He won the Walter Payton Man of
the Year and the MVP in the same season, and
you expect some sort of fall off the next year,
and then it's just like, nope, I'll just go for
another two thousand arts from scrimmage.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
He did that three different times.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
So it was the consistency and the complete game that
he had, There's no.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Question about it. And you know, just the way that
they used him. And and then you got to talk
about how he played in the postseason, whether with the
Chargers or the Jets. He played very well in the postseason.
Even after all that that that stuff isn't even mentioned
when you just look at the regular season stats. But uh,
you know, I just think that he had this. You know,
I think all of the very great athletes have a
(05:30):
different level of stamina than everybody else. Like I've played
my share of Hall of Fame players and they just
didn't get fatigued. And you know, to see a guy
like LT we could talk about all the stats. We
can all read him, greg Andr, and he's worthy of
all of those. But then you know, he didn't miss games,
and he came back to next week, and he didn't
(05:51):
get tired out there, you know, in September out there
in San Diego, whatever the temperature was. All of those
kind of things mixed in as well, and then like, look,
he was the focal point of the offense. Okay, if
you want to stop a running back, go stop him. Well,
everybody had a hard time even with that was the
focal point of stopping him because the way that he
(06:13):
was built was a big part of his success. I mean,
the size of his body from the waist down, it's
it's enormous, Like he could handle the punishment. But then
at the same time, he was built, you know, almost
like an offensive guard from the waist down on a
five ft ten frame. But then he had incredible elusiveness
(06:34):
and ability to stop and start and make people miss.
Like that was the other part. He could truck you,
but he basically made you miss and then he outran you.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
I love that you brought that up in sort of
how you first saw him move at TCU, because I
do think of the contact balance like he was very
tough to get on the ground. And I found a
quote while researching this from Marshall Folk, who I would
put right there, maybe even a little above lt And
the reason he's not on this list we're cutting it
off at two thousand. Some of his best years were
(07:05):
before two thousand, and otherwise he would be on this list.
Ladanian Tomlinson, by the way, it is the highest running
back on this list. But what Fox said that was
so interesting to me was Ladanian can do everything that
I do just as well. But the difference is if
you want to give him the ball on the inside
on the goal line situation just to run over someone,
(07:27):
he's even a little better than me at doing that.
And look, Marshall Falk believes in his greatness because he
was one of the greatest players of all time. So
for him to say that about Ladanian Tomlinson, who was
a big play waiting to happen when he got in
the open field and was so not crafty but so
precise as a receiver, for him to say that, yeah,
he had all that, but he had a little more
(07:48):
even with the power game.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
That really speaks volumes to me.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Well, what's interesting, Greg is I remember, you know, his
signature move at the goal line was to leap over everybody.
And he learned that he watched Walter Payton, you know,
so Walterver Payton is the one that went up and over.
He would protect the ball, he would go backwards over
and like I remember one day we were doing you
(08:11):
know something out in Culver City on his leap and
we had like these high pitch, like these high jump
pits out there for him to kind of emulate it
the whole thing. But his thing was, you know a
lot of guys are afraid to do that dive over
a pile at the goal line because he gets the
ball knocked out. Well, he strapped the ball to his
chest the way Walter Payton did. And you know that
(08:34):
year when he scored thirty one touchdowns, I forget the
number of runs that were touchdowns were from two yards in,
but he literally could take off every bit from the
three yard line and go over the top to score.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah, and obviously a very smart player. But everyone on
this list. It's funny because you could basically say this bout,
You're not going to get this far unless you're an
incredibly hard worker and incredibly intelligent, but he had that
feel of man. He would get on the defenders so quickly,
he would eat up that open space. And then when
he would get in the space, he could make you
move and make you miss in tight quarters. So Lorenzo
(09:09):
Neils spoke about that, his longtime full back, that they
don't they don't really play football Baldy like they did
back with Marty Schottenheimer and those Chargers teams.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Lo' neil never cared. He never cared if he ever
cared a ball one time in a season. He was
the eyes of LG so many great backs in the
history of this game. But you know those that run
with him, I mean they're still best friends, as you
can imagine. But I mean that run of those two guys,
you know, I formation, you know, lead back, all that
kind of stuff that we all kind of you know,
(09:41):
went through. We all, I mean, I played in a
number of those type of systems. You know, we don't
see much of that anymore, unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah, the Chargers that that team and aj Smith had
put together with Marty, and then even after Marty, one
of the great teams that didn't get over for the
top like Ladanian Tomlinson would do at the goal line,
didn't quite break through because of some of those Patriots teams.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
I'm glad he had that time with the Jets.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
He really enjoyed it, said that was one of the
best moves he ever made in his career. Really enjoyed
the back half of his career with the Jets, so
salute to him.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
He was a tough man to take down.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
One of the few players I guess historically that I
can imagine actually being able to tackle la Danian Tomlinson
in the open field. Is our next player, number fourteen,
Luke Keikley top ten, third five, right side Aje.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Lou Chick.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Very quiet, he goes onto the field, flips switch, won't
it tech?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
All right?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
I'm all over him. We gotta go now, hut.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Anybody know you?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Third and three?
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Here the comments kick Lee who catched the Manning back
at the favorite blitz fit in these linebackers up inside
and Luke Keithhley just so fast.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Luke Keith Cleck.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
He reminds me of Peyton Manning.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Guy that is totally prepared, that is going to know
what's gonna happen before it takes place because he has
studied so much on.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Second down, Rombo looking to throw has time, sings it
and it's intercepted at.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
The thirty eight yard line. Keith Lee has it.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
He's gonna go into the house. It's the second pick
six of the game for the Carolina Panthers.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Luke Kickley, he was a problem.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
And Baldy, I know you're joining this series midway through,
but I wanted to let you know I wasn't thinking
about guys who accumulated stats over a long stretch. I
wanted to pick the guys who I thought were the
absolute greatest at what they did when they did it
at their very best. And to me, Luke Keighley defines
(11:53):
that it's not gonna take him off this list. To
me that he retired when he was twenty eight years
old because every single day he was in the field
in the NFL, he was one of maybe the best
linebacker off ball that I've ever seen.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
At what he did, well, let me just put it
in a nutshow for you, Greg, Like if you didn't
block Luke Keickley, he made every tackle. It was just
that simple, Like he literally took the right angle diagnosed
to play. It was as if he stood in the
offensive huddle, heard the play call, heard the quarterback explain
the play to all ten other players, and then he
went and defended the play. That's that's literally how it looked.
(12:29):
I remember, uh, I mean his last year in Carolina.
I remember his final game he didn't play is the
final game of the season was against the Saints. I'll
never forget. And I was announcing the game and I
saw him and I wasn't sure if he was playing
not playing, But you know, he had the injuries, and
you know, you know, certainly they curtailed his career. But
all I wanted. I had a show called Film Sessions
(12:51):
that NFL Films produced, and all I wanted was Luke
to come into the film room with me and explain
the game. Because when you sit down with him, I
don't know that anybody can explain the game better than Luke.
And what he sees, what he studied, how he immersed
himself in it, what he gleamed from it. I Mean,
there's an old saying that linebackers. Two old sayings that
(13:14):
are always true to a great linebacker. One, if you
know the formation, you know the play. So he knew
the formation. He basically knew the play and then it's
always slow to you know, all right, so that you
can prevent the cutback and the reverses and some of
the other things. But I mean he was very difficult
to fool, and he was very difficult to block. I mean,
(13:35):
if you're a guard trying to cut him off of
the backside, I mean you did have any chance. So
then he ruined your run game. And so then you
had to figure out, well, how are we going to
move them? How are we going to block them? Like
do we go straight at him? Because he was two
hundred and forty five pounds, he knew how to take
on a block, a lead block from a full back
or a guard, so knew how to take it on
and shed it, you know, and he was very good
(13:56):
at that part of it as well.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, in a way, he almost like broke the game
because I loved that having that Tony dungee clip in
there by the way, our producers Eric Roberts, Chris Bobona
just killing it and Chris has the biggest smile on
his face listening to Utac ball to keep it up, Baldy.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
It's awesome. But he was such I mean.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
He wasn't like a lightweight guy, but you know, under
two hundred and forty pounds. That's the only reason why
he didn't go even higher in the draft. And some
people I remember at the time, were surprised they took
Keighley that high. They said, why would you take Luke
Keighley that high when you have John Beeson who was
a fantastic player at middle linebacker, and you had Thomas
Davis who had an awesome career like an all time
(14:36):
Carolina Panther on the weak side, and they just knew
this guy was too good. And Beeson made the mistake
of he got injured during his rookie year. Kickley's on
the outside and they put him on the inside, and he.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Never moved his entire career.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Baldi every single year he was either a first team
All Pro, a second team All Pro, or the defensive
Rookie of the Year. Because yeah, that first season he
got Defensive Rookie of the Year and the next he
gets Defensive Player of the Year.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
That was twenty thirteen. I don't even think that was
his best year.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
The best year I thought was when they went to
the Super Bowl and you heard the call at the
very beginning of him making that pick six in the
NFC Championship Game of him sacking Peyton Manny. In the
Super Bowl, I know they didn't win it, but it
wasn't because of that defense. That defense led by Luke Keigley,
to me, was an all time defense that just happened
to go against another all time defense in that Super
(15:25):
Bowl against the Broncos.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Well, I mean, I think they were fifteen to one
that year. You know, Cam was the MVP. I've had
a fantastic season, but I remember going to training camp
I think it was that year, and they trained at
Watford College, Okay in South Carolina, so you know it's
you know, it's one hundred degree day out there, but
they've got Ron Rivera's got a pretty significant offense defense
(15:50):
scrimmage lined up for so I could wait him out
there and watching practice. I mean, to watch Keithley go
at it with Cam, you would have thought it was
Sunday like it was game the way that they went
at it like it just there's something about the competitive
fire of that practice that I've never forgotten. And kick
Ley drove it on defense. He was you know, you
(16:10):
saw you know, guys talking about him flipping a switch.
You know, a game day, and that's true because you
get them, you know, an hour after practice and he
was back to being it's just very reserved, very thoughtful,
insightful individual. But on the field the emotions ran hot.
But you know, to him, game day was the test
that you study all week, you do all this film study,
(16:31):
you take all these notes, and then Sunday was the test,
like let's go do something about let's go you know,
let's sho shut this run game down. But it's way
more than that. I mean, his ability to read route combinations,
to know what's going on behind him, you know, in
the passing game and you get into those passing lanes.
He might be as good, you know. I mean, there's
(16:54):
there's Ray Lewis, there's a bunch of guys, but I
mean he might be as good as anybody from that
department of under standing the passing game from the inside
linebacker spot as we see.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, I'm glad you said that, because look, he led
the league in tackles while he was in the league
by far. He was the leader who second tackles for
loss while he was in the league. But his his
play and coverage, how he could adapt to how the
NFL was changing.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Was so awesome. I actually have a clip.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Let's play when he had two interceptions against Romo in
back to back plays. The second one is just amazing.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Second and thirteen Romo. I can see you from He's
on something by Keithley. He clean signed the twenty to
the ten.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
And city end zone for another Panther defensive touchdown.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
It's a defense that forced five turnovers against the Redskins.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Thinking right up before they left off Sunday, first down
row and.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Can't play right back with another one. Can you believe it?
Back to back plays?
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah, if you're watching on YouTube, you could see Luke
Keithley what do they call in the poll, you know,
sticking with Jason Witten, a tight end running up the
seam and catching a pass over his shoulder. And if
you're looking at the time, Baldy, it's the exact same
time that ends one play, two thirty six left in
the second quarter, and the exact same time that starts
the next play. And Luke Kickley's does end in the
(18:15):
game for the Carolina Panthers.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Well, he's there's a Tampa two defense. The safeties are
widening and he's got you know, number three down down
the seam, it happens to be witting. And you know,
Romo had a great relationship with Witten and most most
middle linebackers. I mean, you pick a great one, Brian Urlacker.
A lot of guys are running that defense. But you know,
but for him to get his head around, and you
(18:38):
see that most guys don't get their head around. They
play the play blind. They run the ball if it's
being thrown, they're looking at the eyes of the receiver
and then they're defending it when the receiver goes to play.
But he got his head around and then got his
eyes on the ball before he took it away. That's
that shows you the level of coordination and athletic ability
that it took, because not guys can make that play. No.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
And yeah, like I mentioned, he got that Defensive Player
of the Year early in his career twenty thirteen. Actually
when it wasn't there wasn't like an obvious pick, and
I think everyone just looked around.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
It's like Luke Keegley is the best defensive player.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
In the league right now, even though he wasn't getting
like sacks or any like a ton of sacks. Although
he wasn't like a sneaky good blitzer when they asked
him to do that as well.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, I remember Greg Carolina went out to play the
forty nine ers. Kyle Shanahan had gotten into San Francisco.
He's running his offense with all the priest and at
motions and shifts and all that, and they ran the
ball down Carolina's throw and so it was, it was.
It was eye opening. It was what it was. And
because there was like three or four plays where they
didn't block Keekley and he didn't make the play and
(19:44):
they literally took him out of the play with the
motions and the shifts, and so I broke it all down,
and so it's like Monday, I break it down. I
actually posted it right, and how good San Francisco was
in the motions and how they moved Keekley. And so
I get a call on TUESDA and I don't recognize
the number, but it's Ron Rivera and he's like, you know, Baldi,
(20:05):
I don't usually watch your stuff, but my wife does.
And I think her name is Judy, but I might
be wrong. But anyways, he goes. My wife was watching it.
She showed it to me and she said, you should
take a look at this, you know. Ron. So Ron
watches it and he's like he's like he's starting to
pick my brain because Kickley never gets moved like that,
like that he's looking at it like Ron himself a linebacker.
(20:27):
He's looking at it through linebacker's eyes and he's now
picking my brain. What did you see that we didn't see? Like?
How did they what? What? Because he's like any coach, like,
how do we make sure this to prevent this from
ever happening again? It was so rare that literally Ron
it was forced to pick up the phone and called me,
asked me what I what I saw in the game.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Ah, that's that's an amazing story and it's true, like
seeing that would just absolutely stun you. And it's a
credit to Kyle Sannyon because I love what Tony Dundee
said that he was like a quarterback. I think he
buying the physical ability because I mean, let's not sleep
on he was just a physical beast. I mean he
had all the speed and the power when he was
tackling that you would ever want. He had twenty four
(21:10):
tackles in a single game, and Panthers coaches swear it
should have been twenty six because that was the record
at the time. They said, we got him down for
twenty six, but they had him for twenty four. It
became such a thing, Baldy. I don't know if you remember,
like watching these games, whenever anyone would make a tackle
for the Panthers, the crowd would just go lou But
it wasn't even Luke. It was just sometimes it was
(21:32):
Thomas Davis. Sometimes it was just like pick your other
white guy. It was just like they just assume Luke
Keigley made a tackle every single time.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, well, I mean it's easily done. Although you know
him and Thomas Davis, there was a pretty significant competition, yes,
about getting to that tackle and claiming that tackle. So
there was a race to the ball.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
One of the best duos of my lifetime. And yeah,
all these players, of course, the very best of the best.
As Baldy is, let's take a quick we will be
back with number thirteen, back on NFL Daily's top twenty
(22:15):
five players of the last twenty five years. This is
a man who initially was in my top ten. I
moved him up, I moved him down. No matter where
you put him, you gotta recognize he has the best
nickname of anyone in the top twenty five.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Number thirteen, Calvin Johnson.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
He left looking deep, grow into the end zone, wants
Calvin well covered.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
He goes up, He makes the cats. Why do you
kidding me? Come back?
Speaker 2 (22:43):
A drovia?
Speaker 4 (22:44):
Did it again?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Touchdown the true Lyons, fab Worths three Bengals. Drake got
him and Calvin went up and hauling.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
In fifty yards in a score. Jill Realms four yards away,
Johnson Stafford.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Try into the record books a single season, all the
time NFL receiving yardy to prefer I've never.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
Met a humbler, harder working after Kisley.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Outstanding player than you're sure.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Book Calvin Johnson aka Megatron, a guy where if you
just start adding up the All pros, you know, three
first team AP pros one second. Maybe not as much
as some of the other guys atop this list, but
when I thought about greatness, kind of like Keikley, even
though the career was shorter, what could you possibly do
(23:38):
with this man six five, two hundred and thirty nine
pounds and ran a four to three five. To me,
he's the definition of one in one, So I could
have put him any lower than this. What do you
remember most about Calvin Johnson's career, Baldy Well, I mean, just.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
The uniqueness of what you described. We've never seen a
guy that size, weight, uh forty times leaping ability, I've
seen a guy with that those many that that many
identifiable features, okay, and then the passion for the game,
the hands, everything that goes with it. So that's the
first thing. He led the league, if I'm not mistaken here,
(24:15):
He has led the league in I mean he had
over two hundred targets in the season, you know, when
he had caught one hundred and twenty two pass He
led the league in targets, receptions, He's led the league
in yards obviously almost two thousand, led the league in touchdowns.
He led the league in every department at one point
or another in one year or another. But I mean
he just compacted, you know. I mean he retired in
(24:37):
league thirty, and you know he did all this before
basically aged thirty. But I remember his rookie year and
I don't know, I guess I was announced the game
for Fox and there was that Lincoln Financial field and
he went up for a ball. This is the only
time he was ever I ever saw him injured. He
went up for a ball. I don't know who the
(24:57):
corner was, Sidney Brown. I'm not sure who it was,
Sheldon Brown maybe, but regardless, he goes up for the ball,
and I mean he came down right on his back,
and I mean he just laid there and I think
he only played like ten games that year, but I
don't know how many times while he was laying down
we showed the highlight. There wasn't a single person on
(25:18):
the planet that could have gone up as high as
he went up to go get that ball. And unfortunately,
when you're that big and you could jump that high,
sometimes those falls hurt. They kind of took, you know,
took a pounding on him. But you know his ability,
just like the play against Cincinnati and your b roll
right there, I mean just to out jump three defenders
right there to get the ball. There's a lot of
(25:39):
those catches throughout his career where literally you could just
throw it up and let him go get it, and
he could have taken that Moniker you know, always never
never covered that could just call Megatron mat.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Yeah, It's just like there was nothing you could do
with it. And you mentioned that that injury, and it
did slow him down his rookie but for the most
part in his career he was durable. He missed a
couple games here and there towards the back end, but
by the end, you know, he basically was playing every
game every season and he went out on top. That
does mean something to me. I'm not gonna knock a
guy that he didn't have his thirties when he was
(26:15):
the second youngest Hall of Fame player ever, when he's
racking up yards play after play. You mentioned that there
were plays that he could just make that no one
else could in the Yeah, he's jumping over guys in
triple coverage.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Let's actually watch another play.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
This is gonna be against the Green Bay Packers in
twenty fifteen.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Roun the seventeen.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
Tring and it's a touchdown right over Sam Shields.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
How about the jump he gets the left toe win.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Yeah, Watch what he does to get that left foot
down holding onto the football.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah, you got that other hand back on it. That
would have been look at him control by the nose.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
That's incredible because he just he made other NFL players
just look like regular mortals, like he was an adult
playing with a bunch of kids.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
He's megatronic. He's megatronzed from another planet, right, I mean
that he literally was and and so great nickname. It's
a great talent. You know, like the other Hall of
Famer walk In Hall of Famer and Barry Sanders. I
mean their careers were short, but in those compressed period
of time, ten for very, nine for Calvin, they were
(27:30):
the best player at their positions. It was hard to
argue that. And so over that period of time, that
was the most lethal receiver in the game. And look,
I mean Randy Moss was, you know, was that guy.
But you know Randy was at six y five, you know,
two forty. You know, he was certainly a freak athlete
in his own right. But I thought, you know, Calvin
(27:51):
Johnson's ability to take a five yard shallow cross and
turn it into a touchdown or a long run afterwards,
and that stride of his was just you know, there's
something graceful. You know, it's like watching Secretariat run. You know,
it's just something graceful about the athlete that he was
and how smooth and easy he made everything.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Look, yeah, that's a great It's a great comp for
him because I don't know what else it would be,
but at that size, Yeah, it was just kind of
a beautiful thing to watch. And those those three straight
first team All pros, and he had a second one
in there too. Was actually towards the back end of
his career. And you mentioned the record breaking season, but
I'll spell it out. It was nineteen hundred and sixty
four yards still the all time record for receiving yards
(28:33):
in a single season. He had one hundred and twenty
two catches that season, and he just made things that
felt a little impossible feel possible.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
So Baldy, it.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Wasn't even in that season that he had his three
hundred and twenty nine yard game against the Cowboys. That
game had fourteen catches, and that to me was a
symbolic of what that era was like for the Lions.
They won that game thirty one to thirty. So all
these catches that he's making, they needed every single one
of those three hundred and twenty nine yards because the
defense usually wasn't there for them, and he had Matthew
(29:06):
Stafford helping him out along the way, so it's not
like he was in a bad spot that the organization
let him down a little bit. But he did everything
that he could absolutely do to lift them up, no.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Question about it, no question. I mean, there was not
I mean, I remember Matt Millan was there as you know,
the general manager, and you know, they went through some
quirky head coaches and all that. I mean, he survived
all of that, and he was like, look, if you
wanted to defend Detroit, you had to defend Calvin Johnson.
And so that's that's what the game plan was for defense.
How do we not take Calvin Johnson out? How do
(29:40):
we how do we slow how do we like at
least limit him and could try to contain him because
we always going to get catches and we always going
to make some big catches and he's going to force
all kinds of pass interference calls and all that stuff,
you know, But how do we, you know, how do
we take care of everybody else because we know he's probably.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Going to get most his right, there's this famous screenshot
of forget who it was, whether it was the Packers
just putting three guys on him in the in the
red zone. They just were like, you can do whatever
you want, you can, but like even before the snap,
putting three guys on him before the snap, that you're
not gonna you're not gonna score on us. How did
you think he was like as a route runner and
(30:20):
as a technician, Like there was there a part of
his game that you thought was underrated in terms of
that one but or was it more just he physically
just kind of overwhelmed everyone.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
I think he physically just overwhelmed people. I mean, there's
better route runners than Calvin Johnson, but that's okay when
you have that kind of size and you can still
come out of your brakes the way he came out
of his bracey, you know, I mean, when you can
still move like that, it doesn't really matter if you
can turn guys around, because ultimately there was always separation
because of his size and his leaping ability. And you know,
(30:52):
some guys have to be great route runners because you know,
they don't have the gifted size that Calvin had or
that Randy Moss had, and so you know, he just
by lining up wherever they put him, because they moved
him everywhere. But just by lining up, you know, he
had people in their backpedal, you know, before the ball
was snapped, because last thing you wanted was to get
(31:13):
beat deep by Calvin Johnson. You give him a lot
of stuff underneath, maybe try to tackle the catch, but
you didn't want to be on the highlight reel on
Sunday night or Monday morning with Calvin Johnson, you know,
going over the top of you.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah, and some of it to me is just these
It's not just the numbers, but just the physical feats
that few people could do. He has the most career
games of two hundred plus receiving yards, the only one
that ties him his Lance all Worth. So like it's
almost like like a different generation of players. Calvin Johnson
just felt like he came from another planet. And yeah,
(31:49):
maybe not as many all pros. It's like it Antonio Brown,
who's not on this list, or too who we've already
done on this list, but when he was at his
absolute best, he also has a consecutive one hundred yard
you know game streak that no one else has. To me,
he's he's one of one. He's Calvin Johnson. And yes
he is number thirteen on the list. Our last guy
(32:10):
we will talk about with you today. Baldy is coming up.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Next, number twelve.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
Joe Thomas, with the third pick in the two thousand
and seven NFL Draft, the Cleveland Browns select left tackle
Joe Thomas, Wisconsin.
Speaker 5 (32:35):
Ten three hundred and sixty three. That's how many consecutive
snaps I had.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
During my career.
Speaker 5 (32:41):
That number ten thousand, three hundred and sixty three is
special to me in a lot of ways, and not
just because it's an NFL record, but because it shows
that I was there for my brothers ten three hundred
and sixty three times in a row. Being an offensive
lineman is all about being a servant and showing up
for everybody else. Loyalty, consistency, doing something bigger than yourself,
(33:03):
showing up for the man next to you. Those are
the values that I learned at an early age, and
those are the values that I took on.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
To the football field.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Joe Thomas with one of the most handsome busts there
in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
They did a great job with that one.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
The hairs on point and a player who won an
All Pro eight times, six times First Team, another two
times second team, was the All twenty tens All Decade
team for the Hall of Fame and for Pro Football Reference,
and that snap streak, Baldy, I think helps to fight him.
Not just that he stayed on the field, but that
(33:40):
the repetitiveness and you can explain this as an offensive
lineman to be excellent in so similar snap after snap
and the discipline that that takes.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
What impresses you the most about Joe Thomas?
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Well, before I get to the question, one of my
great regrets in life is I was offered an opportunity
that the shot you have of Joe there on the boat,
that's where he went draft day. He went fishing with
his dad, and they offered me a chance to be
with Joe on the boat fishing Draft Day with Joe.
(34:18):
And they didn't know he was going to be a
top ten pick. We didn't know which number whatever. He
was a third pick. But like I could have been
there with Joe.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
You got to be there, Baldy went. Where were you?
What were you doing?
Speaker 2 (34:28):
You know? I mean, fishing just isn't one of my
high priorities, Greg, Like, I don't know, like it could
be really boring if the fish aren't jumping in the boat.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Just like swimming with sharks, Baldy, you gotta eat more
action starts.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
So anyways, I passed up that opportunity. I regretted it.
All the things that Joe said speaks to a brotherhood
that really offensive linemen understand the good ones and the
great offensive lines. As a group, they all understand how
important that number was because on a lot of those teams,
they were a bad team, and they were amongst the
(35:02):
worst teams for a much of Joe's career, And it
would have been very easy to say, Okay, you know this,
this elbow is popping out of his joint right now,
I can take the Sunday off, or I could go
back to for my brotherhood. Like he'll never tell you
how many injuries he played through or played with in
order to keep that streak alive. That's number one. But
the consistency is what everybody strives. That's what repetition is
(35:26):
all about. So that when you it's you know, you
want to have that muscle memory, so that regardless of
who you're playing against, you're gonna your technique is going
to be the same play in and play out, no
matter what happens on the play, Like you just flush it,
you go to the next play. You do a consistently
(35:47):
great job, and you string together seventy great plays during
the course of the game, and that's that's the goal
of every offensive lineman. You could have sixty nine great plays,
but the one play where you give up the quarterback
sack or the quarterback hit or a hold on a
big play, that's all you think about the whole night
into the next day, is that one bad play. And
(36:08):
I think Joe took that just sitting down in the
film room with him and watching him talk through techniques.
You think you know the game, you think you understand
the game like a lot of us do, and we
work out it, we all work at it. But when
Joe explains the game to you, it goes to another
level now, and things that you might just take for granted,
(36:31):
to set the hands, the hand placement, you know, in
the run block, they aiming point. All these things that
kind of just sort of looked like they run together.
They never just ran together. To Joe, there was ultimately
a purpose and a reason behind everything he did on
the field, even though so much of the game is
(36:52):
kind of random and kind of just okay, let's just
play the play like you can't control it, but so
much of it was what happened to or practice to
prepare for those moments.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Yeah, there's something too about a guy who comes into
the league they actually have some success right off the
bat with Derek Anderson, that team that went ten and six,
and then after that it's just brutal. It's an incompetently
run franchise who happened to make an absolutely great pick
(37:25):
at number three. That was a great draft, and they
made the great choice there with Joe Thomas, but just
made mistake after mistake and it got worse and worse.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
And to show up, Baldy.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
And You've been in a lot of different NFL locker room,
some great ones, I'm sure you were in some bad ones.
I don't know, but like speak to I guess what
it meant for a guy like Joe Thomas to be
there for everyone that came through that organization over the
ten years that he's there, and have it as an
example of how to how to do something the right way,
(37:58):
no matter how much they're blowing it from above in
terms of how they're running the team.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, I'll look to Greg. I played on one to
fifteen Indianapolis Colt season miserable, but I try to do
what Joe did. What happens with the guy like Joe
is It's very easy when you're you know, one to
ten and you're just playing out the straight, it's very
easy to cut every single thing short. All week long practice, treatment, lifting,
(38:26):
you know, extra studying, well, it's very easy to cut
all that stuff short, or when the wheels fall off
during the game, to just start looking at the clock.
And I think Joe just never did any of that.
I think Joe prepared the exact thing to saying as
if they instead of being three and thirteen, they were
thirteen and three and they're going to the playoffs. I
(38:47):
don't think the preparation ever changed. And so if you're
a teammate of Joe, a young Joe Platonio, you know
some of these guys that came through Cleveland, you know,
with with Joe, like at least you got to see
what a real pro looks like and what it's supposed
to look like, and and maybe that maybe that guy
that might shut it down or not go at it
(39:08):
quite as hard, and watching Joe, maybe that makes you
want to emulate him even that much more.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
I love that you mentioned that, because Thomas's legacy to
me was a part of my thought. He's the highest
offensive lineman on this list, and you could you could
pick a lot of players. There's so many great players,
but Buttonio, I'm forgetting about who else was there that
was really great? I'll think of it in a second.
But it also struck me. Miles Garrett talked about it.
He's on this list, he's at the back end, and
(39:37):
he's a guy whose first season was ZHO to sixteen
and he he saw what Joe Thomas was doing in
that season and as an example. So that's in terms
of the way he played in Cleveland. But do you
think he's had an impact Joe Thomas, that is as
a technician to the to the players and the position
that came after him.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Oh, no question, no question. When I did a film
study with him, we went back. You know, he was
a shot putter in high school and you know his
his his kick start was basically what a shot putter does,
and he just basically took the physics of throwing a
shot put. You know, both hands were rest, are were
braced on the inside knee, his right knee, his left
(40:19):
foot was back, and it was just like he was.
We did an NFL films where we basically shot him
shooting a shot put and then dropping back to you know,
I saw, you know, one of the clips that he
had was against you know, Terrell Suggs is one of
the great pass rushers and one of the great matchups.
During his tenure as a left tackle, going against Suggs,
(40:42):
you know, twice a year, So there was a carryover
from shot putting to what he developed as a left tackle.
But I mean Lane Johnson has copied him that same
start that Lane has and his strive to be as
consistent with that start he did that Jason Peters learned
that from from there. Jordan Mylotta. Now in Philadelphia, I've
(41:04):
all basically watched Joe Thomas in the copy and that's
just a couple guys. I'm just around those guys more
frequently in Philadelphia, so I know how hard they studied him.
But I would tell anybody that if you wanted, because
I you know, you get ready for the draft, greg,
you start watching these kids and studying them like I
did Joe Thomas coming out of Wisconsin. But you know,
(41:24):
what you're looking for at any level is consistency. And
so what I'll say that if a young tackle asked
me what I think, I go, Man, your your set
has to be more consistent, like it's are changing up
all the time, you're laying you're you're not hitting the
right mark. Like you could literally put a blindfold on
Joe Thomas and he would be able to hit that
(41:46):
mark his hands, his punch, where his hands landed, what
the mark, what the aiming point was, like he rarely
ever missed. And that was a big part in the
past game and the run Dame. It's interesting like he
had this thing greg where if he was on the ground,
nobody was allowed to pick him up off the ground.
Like he couldn't get up off the ground. He had
(42:06):
to off his back, so he had to roll over
onto his numbach and then push himself up off the ground.
But you go and see it like he talked about
it and joking like he would never let anybody pick
him up off the ground, you know, like gods just
helping my guy up, like that, come up off, go
Li You're you're diving in somebody's legs and you're cutting
(42:26):
him whatever. Like he that was one of his little
pet peeves, like nobody's picking me up off the ground.
I'm getting myself up off the ground.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
And yeah, to me, he's the ultimate example of a
guy who he's talked about it for offensive lineman, he
had to eat so much, and he was he he
focused so much on his career that his study habits
of all the pass rushers and studying everything was mean.
But he talked about how how much he had to
eat and that it was it was unnatural for him,
and he was He's the He's the guy who the
(42:56):
second his career ended, suddenly three months later he he
lost like fifty pounds and he looks like a totally different, amazing,
crazy human being.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Well, that happens to a lot of guys. You can
go one or two ways. Either lose the weight or
you gain it. But most of the guys that lose
it like he did, they lose it quickly because all
the things that you know, trying to cram ten twelve
thousand calories into your body, like you got so tired
of doing it and making sure that otherwise the weight,
(43:26):
especially in training camp where you're in two days. Back
in those days, you know the weight would fall off
if you didn't gram ten thousand calories. So the first
thing you do is, man, thank god, I don't have
to overread anymore. And so just the fact that you're
not just doubling twelve thousand calories into your body on
a daily basis, your weight just naturally starts to go
back to where it should be normally. So it happens
(43:48):
to a lot of guys, and I didn't think Joe's
going to be any different than those guys.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
So only six players in the history of the NFL
made the Pro Bow. By the way that each of
their first ten seasons. It's a wild list. It's Aaron Donald,
Joe Thomas, Barry Sanders, Lawrence Taylor, and then we're going
way back to mel Renfro and Merlin Olsen back in
the sixties. So that's a hell of a list to
be on, and so is this one. I felt a
(44:16):
little out of my depth with the offensive lineman, so
I hope I did you guys proud I got Walter
Jones at the back end of the list. I have
Zach Martin because I thought we needed to get an
interior guy, and he, in terms of him compared to
other guards, felt so ahead of the game. So he's
in there around seventeen. So many other great players could
have made the list, whether it's Tyron Smith. They thought
(44:36):
about Trent Williams, your guy Lane Johnson. They all would
have been worthy too. So I hope I did your
position proud Baldy, and that you're okay with my selections.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Yeah, I'm okay with it. Yeah, I'm more than fine
with it. Mean, you know there is you know, one
particular left tackle with Baltimore Greg that you might want
to consider. I'm going to drafted. I know he's drafted
in ninety six. To know if that qualifies. You know
the fact that you know we spent the early part
of his years before the twenty five year cutoff right.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
There, Jonathan Ogden had such an amazing career even after
two thousand that he did get strong consideration. And if
you were counting him from ninety six on, he would
probably be first. I would give him to you. But
he is someone who came into the league. He was
so good right off the bat, like maybe the best
part of his career was his first five six years.
(45:29):
Although he was he was something I I it helped
me take the easy way out ball these sometimes when
they had such great years before two thousand, because it
was painful. It was like picking between children. Here to
knock these guys off. So that helped me take Ogden
off because I was like, let's give it to the
guys who were almost entirely in this center.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
Yeah, about Joe and what you mentioned about the consecutive
streak of you know, Pro Bowls for him and that
rarely you know that list that you mentioned of six
of five other guys, you know, I'm I'm not saying
that the voting is always, you know, a popularity contest,
but it's kind of easy just you know, who's the
who's the best left tackle on the best team? Like
(46:08):
you kind of go in that direction sometimes and you know,
you're O sixteen, You're really going to put the left
tackle on an old sixteen team in the Pro Bowl.
A lot of players wouldn't vote like that, But that's
the respect that he garnered. Even we know that the
team and the organization was poor for long stretches of
his career, Yet the attention that he still received consistency
(46:32):
they played at is still a sign of great respect
from from his peers and from the fans that vote,
and the coaches and personnel people that all involved with voting.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Yeah, and I tried to put a little more weight
on the on the All pros, and he dominated with
that and actually pff, which you know it's not perfect,
but it's interesting because they're certainly not caring about what
the record is or anything like that. And two of
their best four seasons of all time just by by
their total score from a tackle. Two of their best
(47:04):
four seasons ever any player, any season. We're by Joe Thomas,
just just shutting people down in a great division, by
the way, four pass rushers, So I feel good about him.
We're about halfway through this list. It's gonna be tough
to top you, Baldy, Like I would just like to
spin the dial and just here, like press a button
(47:24):
and hear baldyse stories on all twenty five of these guys.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Well, you know, you sort of like to stuff over years,
but you know a lot of these things that just
get triggered by the conversation. Rig So I'm I'm happy
that you invited me in, got a chance to talk about,
you know, for of these great players, many of the
players I'd studied, you know, a week in, week out
on film, so they're pretty still pretty fresh in the
memory bank.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Appreciate Brian Baldinger and Yeah, he'll be all over the
airwaves for NFL Network in his podcasts in the upcoming season.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
Our next episode will be our fourth edition of.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
NFL daili's Top twenty five players in the last twenty
five years. We're going to be joined by Yacht whose
sports NFL analyst Nate Tice. There might be a certain
player that he was a ball boy for coming up
on that episode.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
We'll see you then,
Welcome to episode three of NFL Daily's twenty five Players
in twenty five Years. Yes, we are talking about the
best players of this century, and there is no one
I would rather talk to than Brian Baldinger of NFL Network. Baldy,
you've been covering the league this whole time. I'm going
(00:25):
back and watching some of the highlights. You're on the
Fox calls for some of these guys, and of course
you've been with us at the network, so a great
perspective that I know you'll give. And I had to
get you on a show where there will be an
offensive lineman. No spoilers yet, but there will be an
offensive lineman on this one.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
All right, well, well done. You can't have a list
without a few offensive linemen on. I know that.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Let's just get right to it.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
We're not starting with the lineman, but we are starting
with someone that I loved watching when I was starting
my career.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Out number fifteen, Ladanian Tomlinson. And the hand off to
Thomlinson left sun and he will.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Gallop into the unzone, charger fans or witnesses to history.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
The kid from Rosebud, Texas get done good.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I want to thank you for allowing us.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
To witness your greatness. Wow, what a player, what a
person we want to bring?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Y'all want to be?
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Jimps, What y'all want to be?
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Joe from the left hatch on second and four, A
little pitch pack to LT.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
He's looking at Crow George the enzone. Gates got it
cut down.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
That's why you're the greatest.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
That's why you're the greatest.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Ladaian Thomasson one of the best to ever do it.
He could run, he could catch, and heck you get
him on the move. He could throw a little bit
right there to Antonio Gates. Just an incredible career. There
was a six year stretch Baldy where he goes three
first team All Pros and three second team All Pros
mixed in there.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
And during that stretch he played.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
The running back position about as high a level as
I've ever seen anyone play it.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Well, you know, we've all got a chance to work
with them, Greg, so we know what kind of person is.
So you got to factor that into because just you
know the person, the quality of person, the team, ate
all that, but to get the god given talent, I mean,
there's so many flashback memories I remember Greg doing the
Senior Bowl his year coming out of TCU, And I
remember we were going to practice and I'm doing the
(02:30):
game for TNT. I'm walking down to practice with all
the guys, and the first person I see is number five.
It's Ladani and Thompson. I'll never forget it, Like he
just moved differently than everybody. So that like that was
my first memory visually of watching LT. Then I remember,
you know, Marty Schottenheimer was his coach for a while
(02:51):
with the Chargers, and I remember, you know, back when
veteran players, even star players used to play in the preseason. Greg,
I'll never forget like the first play of the game
of a Chargers preseason game, they flipped it to LT
and you know it was a touchback. You get the
ball to twenty yard line. He goes eighty yards off
right side, like literally eighty yards. Nobody touches them. He
(03:13):
lays the ball on the ground. Marty Schottenheimer waves them
over to the sideline says, you're done, not just done
for the day, but you're done for preseason. Eighty yards
one play. We've seen enough. Let's get ready for the season,
you know, I mean he's had a year. We had
one hundred catches in the season you mentioned, you know,
those first seven or eight years, Greg, he averaged four
(03:35):
hundred touches a year. Like you give any back in
this league over the last twenty five years, four hundred touches.
They were done the next year, Jamal Anderson, Sean Alexander
Duce mccows. So you go through a list of guys
four hundred touches, it like it really really breaks a
running back. LT just thrived on the volume of work
(03:59):
that he got, especially those first eight years.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Right, So the stats are crazy, and his first nine
seasons he scores nineteen more touchdowns than any player in
NFL history. And so that's the meat of a guy's career.
And even if you look at the whole career touchdowns
per game, only Jim Brown goes better than him. And
you're absolutely right about saying that he did it year
(04:23):
after year after year. I have to point it out
because I was in the industry at the time. He's
got to be the fantasy football go I actually went
and checked some stats and he had to be. Like
of this era, if you're giving points per reception, he
has the most fantasy points per reception of any of
these running backs by so much. It's ridiculous because you're
absolutely right, Like, usually you have a season like that
(04:47):
MVP season he had, and you mentioned what a great
person he was. He won the Walter Payton Man of
the Year and the MVP in the same season, and
you expect some sort of fall off the next year,
and then it's just like, nope, I'll just go for
another two thousand arts from scrimmage.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
He did that three different times.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
So it was the consistency and the complete game that
he had, There's no.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Question about it. And you know, just the way that
they used him. And and then you got to talk
about how he played in the postseason, whether with the
Chargers or the Jets. He played very well in the postseason.
Even after all that that that stuff isn't even mentioned
when you just look at the regular season stats. But uh,
you know, I just think that he had this. You know,
I think all of the very great athletes have a
(05:30):
different level of stamina than everybody else. Like I've played
my share of Hall of Fame players and they just
didn't get fatigued. And you know, to see a guy
like LT we could talk about all the stats. We
can all read him, greg Andr, and he's worthy of
all of those. But then you know, he didn't miss games,
and he came back to next week, and he didn't
(05:51):
get tired out there, you know, in September out there
in San Diego, whatever the temperature was. All of those
kind of things mixed in as well, and then like, look,
he was the focal point of the offense. Okay, if
you want to stop a running back, go stop him. Well,
everybody had a hard time even with that was the
focal point of stopping him because the way that he
(06:13):
was built was a big part of his success. I mean,
the size of his body from the waist down, it's
it's enormous, Like he could handle the punishment. But then
at the same time, he was built, you know, almost
like an offensive guard from the waist down on a
five ft ten frame. But then he had incredible elusiveness
(06:34):
and ability to stop and start and make people miss.
Like that was the other part. He could truck you,
but he basically made you miss and then he outran you.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
I love that you brought that up in sort of
how you first saw him move at TCU, because I
do think of the contact balance like he was very
tough to get on the ground. And I found a
quote while researching this from Marshall Folk, who I would
put right there, maybe even a little above lt And
the reason he's not on this list we're cutting it
off at two thousand. Some of his best years were
(07:05):
before two thousand, and otherwise he would be on this list.
Ladanian Tomlinson, by the way, it is the highest running
back on this list. But what Fox said that was
so interesting to me was Ladanian can do everything that
I do just as well. But the difference is if
you want to give him the ball on the inside
on the goal line situation just to run over someone,
(07:27):
he's even a little better than me at doing that.
And look, Marshall Falk believes in his greatness because he
was one of the greatest players of all time. So
for him to say that about Ladanian Tomlinson, who was
a big play waiting to happen when he got in
the open field and was so not crafty but so
precise as a receiver, for him to say that, yeah,
he had all that, but he had a little more
(07:48):
even with the power game.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
That really speaks volumes to me.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Well, what's interesting, Greg is I remember, you know, his
signature move at the goal line was to leap over everybody.
And he learned that he watched Walter Payton, you know,
so Walterver Payton is the one that went up and over.
He would protect the ball, he would go backwards over
and like I remember one day we were doing you
(08:11):
know something out in Culver City on his leap and
we had like these high pitch, like these high jump
pits out there for him to kind of emulate it
the whole thing. But his thing was, you know a
lot of guys are afraid to do that dive over
a pile at the goal line because he gets the
ball knocked out. Well, he strapped the ball to his
chest the way Walter Payton did. And you know that
(08:34):
year when he scored thirty one touchdowns, I forget the
number of runs that were touchdowns were from two yards in,
but he literally could take off every bit from the
three yard line and go over the top to score.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah, and obviously a very smart player. But everyone on
this list. It's funny because you could basically say this bout,
You're not going to get this far unless you're an
incredibly hard worker and incredibly intelligent, but he had that
feel of man. He would get on the defenders so quickly,
he would eat up that open space. And then when
he would get in the space, he could make you
move and make you miss in tight quarters. So Lorenzo
(09:09):
Neils spoke about that, his longtime full back, that they
don't they don't really play football Baldy like they did
back with Marty Schottenheimer and those Chargers teams.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Lo' neil never cared. He never cared if he ever
cared a ball one time in a season. He was
the eyes of LG so many great backs in the
history of this game. But you know those that run
with him, I mean they're still best friends, as you
can imagine. But I mean that run of those two guys,
you know, I formation, you know, lead back, all that
kind of stuff that we all kind of you know,
(09:41):
went through. We all, I mean, I played in a
number of those type of systems. You know, we don't
see much of that anymore, unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah, the Chargers that that team and aj Smith had
put together with Marty, and then even after Marty, one
of the great teams that didn't get over for the
top like Ladanian Tomlinson would do at the goal line,
didn't quite break through because of some of those Patriots teams.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
I'm glad he had that time with the Jets.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
He really enjoyed it, said that was one of the
best moves he ever made in his career. Really enjoyed
the back half of his career with the Jets, so
salute to him.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
He was a tough man to take down.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
One of the few players I guess historically that I
can imagine actually being able to tackle la Danian Tomlinson
in the open field. Is our next player, number fourteen,
Luke Keikley top ten, third five, right side Aje.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Lou Chick.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Very quiet, he goes onto the field, flips switch, won't
it tech?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
All right?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
I'm all over him. We gotta go now, hut.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Anybody know you?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Third and three?
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Here the comments kick Lee who catched the Manning back
at the favorite blitz fit in these linebackers up inside
and Luke Keithhley just so fast.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Luke Keith Cleck.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
He reminds me of Peyton Manning.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Guy that is totally prepared, that is going to know
what's gonna happen before it takes place because he has
studied so much on.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Second down, Rombo looking to throw has time, sings it
and it's intercepted at.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
The thirty eight yard line. Keith Lee has it.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
He's gonna go into the house. It's the second pick
six of the game for the Carolina Panthers.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Luke Kickley, he was a problem.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
And Baldy, I know you're joining this series midway through,
but I wanted to let you know I wasn't thinking
about guys who accumulated stats over a long stretch. I
wanted to pick the guys who I thought were the
absolute greatest at what they did when they did it
at their very best. And to me, Luke Keighley defines
(11:53):
that it's not gonna take him off this list. To
me that he retired when he was twenty eight years
old because every single day he was in the field
in the NFL, he was one of maybe the best
linebacker off ball that I've ever seen.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
At what he did, well, let me just put it
in a nutshow for you, Greg, Like if you didn't
block Luke Keickley, he made every tackle. It was just
that simple, Like he literally took the right angle diagnosed
to play. It was as if he stood in the
offensive huddle, heard the play call, heard the quarterback explain
the play to all ten other players, and then he
went and defended the play. That's that's literally how it looked.
(12:29):
I remember, uh, I mean his last year in Carolina.
I remember his final game he didn't play is the
final game of the season was against the Saints. I'll
never forget. And I was announcing the game and I
saw him and I wasn't sure if he was playing
not playing, But you know, he had the injuries, and
you know, you know, certainly they curtailed his career. But
all I wanted. I had a show called Film Sessions
(12:51):
that NFL Films produced, and all I wanted was Luke
to come into the film room with me and explain
the game. Because when you sit down with him, I
don't know that anybody can explain the game better than Luke.
And what he sees, what he studied, how he immersed
himself in it, what he gleamed from it. I Mean,
there's an old saying that linebackers. Two old sayings that
(13:14):
are always true to a great linebacker. One, if you
know the formation, you know the play. So he knew
the formation. He basically knew the play and then it's
always slow to you know, all right, so that you
can prevent the cutback and the reverses and some of
the other things. But I mean he was very difficult
to fool, and he was very difficult to block. I mean,
(13:35):
if you're a guard trying to cut him off of
the backside, I mean you did have any chance. So
then he ruined your run game. And so then you
had to figure out, well, how are we going to
move them? How are we going to block them? Like
do we go straight at him? Because he was two
hundred and forty five pounds, he knew how to take
on a block, a lead block from a full back
or a guard, so knew how to take it on
and shed it, you know, and he was very good
(13:56):
at that part of it as well.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, in a way, he almost like broke the game
because I loved that having that Tony dungee clip in
there by the way, our producers Eric Roberts, Chris Bobona
just killing it and Chris has the biggest smile on
his face listening to Utac ball to keep it up, Baldy.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
It's awesome. But he was such I mean.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
He wasn't like a lightweight guy, but you know, under
two hundred and forty pounds. That's the only reason why
he didn't go even higher in the draft. And some
people I remember at the time, were surprised they took
Keighley that high. They said, why would you take Luke
Keighley that high when you have John Beeson who was
a fantastic player at middle linebacker, and you had Thomas
Davis who had an awesome career like an all time
(14:36):
Carolina Panther on the weak side, and they just knew
this guy was too good. And Beeson made the mistake
of he got injured during his rookie year. Kickley's on
the outside and they put him on the inside, and he.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Never moved his entire career.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Baldi every single year he was either a first team
All Pro, a second team All Pro, or the defensive
Rookie of the Year. Because yeah, that first season he
got Defensive Rookie of the Year and the next he
gets Defensive Player of the Year.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
That was twenty thirteen. I don't even think that was
his best year.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
The best year I thought was when they went to
the Super Bowl and you heard the call at the
very beginning of him making that pick six in the
NFC Championship Game of him sacking Peyton Manny. In the
Super Bowl, I know they didn't win it, but it
wasn't because of that defense. That defense led by Luke Keigley,
to me, was an all time defense that just happened
to go against another all time defense in that Super
(15:25):
Bowl against the Broncos.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Well, I mean, I think they were fifteen to one
that year. You know, Cam was the MVP. I've had
a fantastic season, but I remember going to training camp
I think it was that year, and they trained at
Watford College, Okay in South Carolina, so you know it's
you know, it's one hundred degree day out there, but
they've got Ron Rivera's got a pretty significant offense defense
(15:50):
scrimmage lined up for so I could wait him out
there and watching practice. I mean, to watch Keithley go
at it with Cam, you would have thought it was
Sunday like it was game the way that they went
at it like it just there's something about the competitive
fire of that practice that I've never forgotten. And kick
Ley drove it on defense. He was you know, you
(16:10):
saw you know, guys talking about him flipping a switch.
You know, a game day, and that's true because you
get them, you know, an hour after practice and he
was back to being it's just very reserved, very thoughtful,
insightful individual. But on the field the emotions ran hot.
But you know, to him, game day was the test
that you study all week, you do all this film study,
(16:31):
you take all these notes, and then Sunday was the test,
like let's go do something about let's go you know,
let's sho shut this run game down. But it's way
more than that. I mean, his ability to read route combinations,
to know what's going on behind him, you know, in
the passing game and you get into those passing lanes.
He might be as good, you know. I mean, there's
(16:54):
there's Ray Lewis, there's a bunch of guys, but I
mean he might be as good as anybody from that
department of under standing the passing game from the inside
linebacker spot as we see.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, I'm glad you said that, because look, he led
the league in tackles while he was in the league
by far. He was the leader who second tackles for
loss while he was in the league. But his his
play and coverage, how he could adapt to how the
NFL was changing.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Was so awesome. I actually have a clip.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Let's play when he had two interceptions against Romo in
back to back plays. The second one is just amazing.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Second and thirteen Romo. I can see you from He's
on something by Keithley. He clean signed the twenty to
the ten.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
And city end zone for another Panther defensive touchdown.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
It's a defense that forced five turnovers against the Redskins.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Thinking right up before they left off Sunday, first down
row and.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Can't play right back with another one. Can you believe it?
Back to back plays?
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah, if you're watching on YouTube, you could see Luke
Keithley what do they call in the poll, you know,
sticking with Jason Witten, a tight end running up the
seam and catching a pass over his shoulder. And if
you're looking at the time, Baldy, it's the exact same
time that ends one play, two thirty six left in
the second quarter, and the exact same time that starts
the next play. And Luke Kickley's does end in the
(18:15):
game for the Carolina Panthers.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Well, he's there's a Tampa two defense. The safeties are
widening and he's got you know, number three down down
the seam, it happens to be witting. And you know,
Romo had a great relationship with Witten and most most
middle linebackers. I mean, you pick a great one, Brian Urlacker.
A lot of guys are running that defense. But you know,
but for him to get his head around, and you
(18:38):
see that most guys don't get their head around. They
play the play blind. They run the ball if it's
being thrown, they're looking at the eyes of the receiver
and then they're defending it when the receiver goes to play.
But he got his head around and then got his
eyes on the ball before he took it away. That's
that shows you the level of coordination and athletic ability
that it took, because not guys can make that play. No.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
And yeah, like I mentioned, he got that Defensive Player
of the Year early in his career twenty thirteen. Actually
when it wasn't there wasn't like an obvious pick, and
I think everyone just looked around.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
It's like Luke Keegley is the best defensive player.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
In the league right now, even though he wasn't getting
like sacks or any like a ton of sacks. Although
he wasn't like a sneaky good blitzer when they asked
him to do that as well.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, I remember Greg Carolina went out to play the
forty nine ers. Kyle Shanahan had gotten into San Francisco.
He's running his offense with all the priest and at
motions and shifts and all that, and they ran the
ball down Carolina's throw and so it was, it was.
It was eye opening. It was what it was. And
because there was like three or four plays where they
didn't block Keekley and he didn't make the play and
(19:44):
they literally took him out of the play with the
motions and the shifts, and so I broke it all down,
and so it's like Monday, I break it down. I
actually posted it right, and how good San Francisco was
in the motions and how they moved Keekley. And so
I get a call on TUESDA and I don't recognize
the number, but it's Ron Rivera and he's like, you know, Baldi,
(20:05):
I don't usually watch your stuff, but my wife does.
And I think her name is Judy, but I might
be wrong. But anyways, he goes. My wife was watching it.
She showed it to me and she said, you should
take a look at this, you know. Ron. So Ron
watches it and he's like he's like he's starting to
pick my brain because Kickley never gets moved like that,
like that he's looking at it like Ron himself a linebacker.
(20:27):
He's looking at it through linebacker's eyes and he's now
picking my brain. What did you see that we didn't see? Like?
How did they what? What? Because he's like any coach, like,
how do we make sure this to prevent this from
ever happening again? It was so rare that literally Ron
it was forced to pick up the phone and called me,
asked me what I what I saw in the game.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Ah, that's that's an amazing story and it's true, like
seeing that would just absolutely stun you. And it's a
credit to Kyle Sannyon because I love what Tony Dundee
said that he was like a quarterback. I think he
buying the physical ability because I mean, let's not sleep
on he was just a physical beast. I mean he
had all the speed and the power when he was
tackling that you would ever want. He had twenty four
(21:10):
tackles in a single game, and Panthers coaches swear it
should have been twenty six because that was the record
at the time. They said, we got him down for
twenty six, but they had him for twenty four. It
became such a thing, Baldy. I don't know if you remember,
like watching these games, whenever anyone would make a tackle
for the Panthers, the crowd would just go lou But
it wasn't even Luke. It was just sometimes it was
(21:32):
Thomas Davis. Sometimes it was just like pick your other
white guy. It was just like they just assume Luke
Keigley made a tackle every single time.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, well, I mean it's easily done. Although you know
him and Thomas Davis, there was a pretty significant competition, yes,
about getting to that tackle and claiming that tackle. So
there was a race to the ball.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
One of the best duos of my lifetime. And yeah,
all these players, of course, the very best of the best.
As Baldy is, let's take a quick we will be
back with number thirteen, back on NFL Daily's top twenty
(22:15):
five players of the last twenty five years. This is
a man who initially was in my top ten. I
moved him up, I moved him down. No matter where
you put him, you gotta recognize he has the best
nickname of anyone in the top twenty five.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Number thirteen, Calvin Johnson.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
He left looking deep, grow into the end zone, wants
Calvin well covered.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
He goes up, He makes the cats. Why do you
kidding me? Come back?
Speaker 2 (22:43):
A drovia?
Speaker 4 (22:44):
Did it again?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Touchdown the true Lyons, fab Worths three Bengals. Drake got
him and Calvin went up and hauling.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
In fifty yards in a score. Jill Realms four yards away,
Johnson Stafford.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Try into the record books a single season, all the
time NFL receiving yardy to prefer I've never.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
Met a humbler, harder working after Kisley.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Outstanding player than you're sure.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Book Calvin Johnson aka Megatron, a guy where if you
just start adding up the All pros, you know, three
first team AP pros one second. Maybe not as much
as some of the other guys atop this list, but
when I thought about greatness, kind of like Keikley, even
though the career was shorter, what could you possibly do
(23:38):
with this man six five, two hundred and thirty nine
pounds and ran a four to three five. To me,
he's the definition of one in one, So I could
have put him any lower than this. What do you
remember most about Calvin Johnson's career, Baldy Well, I mean, just.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
The uniqueness of what you described. We've never seen a
guy that size, weight, uh forty times leaping ability, I've
seen a guy with that those many that that many
identifiable features, okay, and then the passion for the game,
the hands, everything that goes with it. So that's the
first thing. He led the league, if I'm not mistaken here,
(24:15):
He has led the league in I mean he had
over two hundred targets in the season, you know, when
he had caught one hundred and twenty two pass He
led the league in targets, receptions, He's led the league
in yards obviously almost two thousand, led the league in touchdowns.
He led the league in every department at one point
or another in one year or another. But I mean
he just compacted, you know. I mean he retired in
(24:37):
league thirty, and you know he did all this before
basically aged thirty. But I remember his rookie year and
I don't know, I guess I was announced the game
for Fox and there was that Lincoln Financial field and
he went up for a ball. This is the only
time he was ever I ever saw him injured. He
went up for a ball. I don't know who the
(24:57):
corner was, Sidney Brown. I'm not sure who it was,
Sheldon Brown maybe, but regardless, he goes up for the ball,
and I mean he came down right on his back,
and I mean he just laid there and I think
he only played like ten games that year, but I
don't know how many times while he was laying down
we showed the highlight. There wasn't a single person on
(25:18):
the planet that could have gone up as high as
he went up to go get that ball. And unfortunately,
when you're that big and you could jump that high,
sometimes those falls hurt. They kind of took, you know,
took a pounding on him. But you know his ability,
just like the play against Cincinnati and your b roll
right there, I mean just to out jump three defenders
right there to get the ball. There's a lot of
(25:39):
those catches throughout his career where literally you could just
throw it up and let him go get it, and
he could have taken that Moniker you know, always never
never covered that could just call Megatron mat.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Yeah, It's just like there was nothing you could do
with it. And you mentioned that that injury, and it
did slow him down his rookie but for the most
part in his career he was durable. He missed a
couple games here and there towards the back end, but
by the end, you know, he basically was playing every
game every season and he went out on top. That
does mean something to me. I'm not gonna knock a
guy that he didn't have his thirties when he was
(26:15):
the second youngest Hall of Fame player ever, when he's
racking up yards play after play. You mentioned that there
were plays that he could just make that no one
else could in the Yeah, he's jumping over guys in
triple coverage.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Let's actually watch another play.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
This is gonna be against the Green Bay Packers in
twenty fifteen.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Roun the seventeen.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
Tring and it's a touchdown right over Sam Shields.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
How about the jump he gets the left toe win.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Yeah, Watch what he does to get that left foot
down holding onto the football.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah, you got that other hand back on it. That
would have been look at him control by the nose.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
That's incredible because he just he made other NFL players
just look like regular mortals, like he was an adult
playing with a bunch of kids.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
He's megatronic. He's megatronzed from another planet, right, I mean
that he literally was and and so great nickname. It's
a great talent. You know, like the other Hall of
Famer walk In Hall of Famer and Barry Sanders. I
mean their careers were short, but in those compressed period
of time, ten for very, nine for Calvin, they were
(27:30):
the best player at their positions. It was hard to
argue that. And so over that period of time, that
was the most lethal receiver in the game. And look,
I mean Randy Moss was, you know, was that guy.
But you know Randy was at six y five, you know,
two forty. You know, he was certainly a freak athlete
in his own right. But I thought, you know, Calvin
(27:51):
Johnson's ability to take a five yard shallow cross and
turn it into a touchdown or a long run afterwards,
and that stride of his was just you know, there's
something graceful. You know, it's like watching Secretariat run. You know,
it's just something graceful about the athlete that he was
and how smooth and easy he made everything.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Look, yeah, that's a great It's a great comp for
him because I don't know what else it would be,
but at that size, Yeah, it was just kind of
a beautiful thing to watch. And those those three straight
first team All pros, and he had a second one
in there too. Was actually towards the back end of
his career. And you mentioned the record breaking season, but
I'll spell it out. It was nineteen hundred and sixty
four yards still the all time record for receiving yards
(28:33):
in a single season. He had one hundred and twenty
two catches that season, and he just made things that
felt a little impossible feel possible.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
So Baldy, it.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Wasn't even in that season that he had his three
hundred and twenty nine yard game against the Cowboys. That
game had fourteen catches, and that to me was a
symbolic of what that era was like for the Lions.
They won that game thirty one to thirty. So all
these catches that he's making, they needed every single one
of those three hundred and twenty nine yards because the
defense usually wasn't there for them, and he had Matthew
(29:06):
Stafford helping him out along the way, so it's not
like he was in a bad spot that the organization
let him down a little bit. But he did everything
that he could absolutely do to lift them up, no.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Question about it, no question. I mean, there was not
I mean, I remember Matt Millan was there as you know,
the general manager, and you know, they went through some
quirky head coaches and all that. I mean, he survived
all of that, and he was like, look, if you
wanted to defend Detroit, you had to defend Calvin Johnson.
And so that's that's what the game plan was for defense.
How do we not take Calvin Johnson out? How do
(29:40):
we how do we slow how do we like at
least limit him and could try to contain him because
we always going to get catches and we always going
to make some big catches and he's going to force
all kinds of pass interference calls and all that stuff,
you know, But how do we, you know, how do
we take care of everybody else because we know he's probably.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Going to get most his right, there's this famous screenshot
of forget who it was, whether it was the Packers
just putting three guys on him in the in the
red zone. They just were like, you can do whatever
you want, you can, but like even before the snap,
putting three guys on him before the snap, that you're
not gonna you're not gonna score on us. How did
you think he was like as a route runner and
(30:20):
as a technician, Like there was there a part of
his game that you thought was underrated in terms of
that one but or was it more just he physically
just kind of overwhelmed everyone.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
I think he physically just overwhelmed people. I mean, there's
better route runners than Calvin Johnson, but that's okay when
you have that kind of size and you can still
come out of your brakes the way he came out
of his bracey, you know, I mean, when you can
still move like that, it doesn't really matter if you
can turn guys around, because ultimately there was always separation
because of his size and his leaping ability. And you know,
(30:52):
some guys have to be great route runners because you know,
they don't have the gifted size that Calvin had or
that Randy Moss had, and so you know, he just
by lining up wherever they put him, because they moved
him everywhere. But just by lining up, you know, he
had people in their backpedal, you know, before the ball
was snapped, because last thing you wanted was to get
(31:13):
beat deep by Calvin Johnson. You give him a lot
of stuff underneath, maybe try to tackle the catch, but
you didn't want to be on the highlight reel on
Sunday night or Monday morning with Calvin Johnson, you know,
going over the top of you.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah, and some of it to me is just these
It's not just the numbers, but just the physical feats
that few people could do. He has the most career
games of two hundred plus receiving yards, the only one
that ties him his Lance all Worth. So like it's
almost like like a different generation of players. Calvin Johnson
just felt like he came from another planet. And yeah,
(31:49):
maybe not as many all pros. It's like it Antonio Brown,
who's not on this list, or too who we've already
done on this list, but when he was at his
absolute best, he also has a consecutive one hundred yard
you know game streak that no one else has. To me,
he's he's one of one. He's Calvin Johnson. And yes
he is number thirteen on the list. Our last guy
(32:10):
we will talk about with you today. Baldy is coming up.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Next, number twelve.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
Joe Thomas, with the third pick in the two thousand
and seven NFL Draft, the Cleveland Browns select left tackle
Joe Thomas, Wisconsin.
Speaker 5 (32:35):
Ten three hundred and sixty three. That's how many consecutive
snaps I had.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
During my career.
Speaker 5 (32:41):
That number ten thousand, three hundred and sixty three is
special to me in a lot of ways, and not
just because it's an NFL record, but because it shows
that I was there for my brothers ten three hundred
and sixty three times in a row. Being an offensive
lineman is all about being a servant and showing up
for everybody else. Loyalty, consistency, doing something bigger than yourself,
(33:03):
showing up for the man next to you. Those are
the values that I learned at an early age, and
those are the values that I took on.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
To the football field.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Joe Thomas with one of the most handsome busts there
in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
They did a great job with that one.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
The hairs on point and a player who won an
All Pro eight times, six times First Team, another two
times second team, was the All twenty tens All Decade
team for the Hall of Fame and for Pro Football Reference,
and that snap streak, Baldy, I think helps to fight him.
Not just that he stayed on the field, but that
(33:40):
the repetitiveness and you can explain this as an offensive
lineman to be excellent in so similar snap after snap
and the discipline that that takes.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
What impresses you the most about Joe Thomas?
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Well, before I get to the question, one of my
great regrets in life is I was offered an opportunity
that the shot you have of Joe there on the boat,
that's where he went draft day. He went fishing with
his dad, and they offered me a chance to be
with Joe on the boat fishing Draft Day with Joe.
(34:18):
And they didn't know he was going to be a
top ten pick. We didn't know which number whatever. He
was a third pick. But like I could have been
there with Joe.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
You got to be there, Baldy went. Where were you?
What were you doing?
Speaker 2 (34:28):
You know? I mean, fishing just isn't one of my
high priorities, Greg, Like, I don't know, like it could
be really boring if the fish aren't jumping in the boat.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Just like swimming with sharks, Baldy, you gotta eat more
action starts.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
So anyways, I passed up that opportunity. I regretted it.
All the things that Joe said speaks to a brotherhood
that really offensive linemen understand the good ones and the
great offensive lines. As a group, they all understand how
important that number was because on a lot of those teams,
they were a bad team, and they were amongst the
(35:02):
worst teams for a much of Joe's career, And it
would have been very easy to say, Okay, you know this,
this elbow is popping out of his joint right now,
I can take the Sunday off, or I could go
back to for my brotherhood. Like he'll never tell you
how many injuries he played through or played with in
order to keep that streak alive. That's number one. But
the consistency is what everybody strives. That's what repetition is
(35:26):
all about. So that when you it's you know, you
want to have that muscle memory, so that regardless of
who you're playing against, you're gonna your technique is going
to be the same play in and play out, no
matter what happens on the play, Like you just flush it,
you go to the next play. You do a consistently
(35:47):
great job, and you string together seventy great plays during
the course of the game, and that's that's the goal
of every offensive lineman. You could have sixty nine great plays,
but the one play where you give up the quarterback
sack or the quarterback hit or a hold on a
big play, that's all you think about the whole night
into the next day, is that one bad play. And
(36:08):
I think Joe took that just sitting down in the
film room with him and watching him talk through techniques.
You think you know the game, you think you understand
the game like a lot of us do, and we
work out it, we all work at it. But when
Joe explains the game to you, it goes to another
level now, and things that you might just take for granted,
(36:31):
to set the hands, the hand placement, you know, in
the run block, they aiming point. All these things that
kind of just sort of looked like they run together.
They never just ran together. To Joe, there was ultimately
a purpose and a reason behind everything he did on
the field, even though so much of the game is
(36:52):
kind of random and kind of just okay, let's just
play the play like you can't control it, but so
much of it was what happened to or practice to
prepare for those moments.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Yeah, there's something too about a guy who comes into
the league they actually have some success right off the
bat with Derek Anderson, that team that went ten and six,
and then after that it's just brutal. It's an incompetently
run franchise who happened to make an absolutely great pick
(37:25):
at number three. That was a great draft, and they
made the great choice there with Joe Thomas, but just
made mistake after mistake and it got worse and worse.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
And to show up, Baldy.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
And You've been in a lot of different NFL locker room,
some great ones, I'm sure you were in some bad ones.
I don't know, but like speak to I guess what
it meant for a guy like Joe Thomas to be
there for everyone that came through that organization over the
ten years that he's there, and have it as an
example of how to how to do something the right way,
(37:58):
no matter how much they're blowing it from above in
terms of how they're running the team.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, I'll look to Greg. I played on one to
fifteen Indianapolis Colt season miserable, but I try to do
what Joe did. What happens with the guy like Joe
is It's very easy when you're you know, one to
ten and you're just playing out the straight, it's very
easy to cut every single thing short. All week long practice, treatment, lifting,
(38:26):
you know, extra studying, well, it's very easy to cut
all that stuff short, or when the wheels fall off
during the game, to just start looking at the clock.
And I think Joe just never did any of that.
I think Joe prepared the exact thing to saying as
if they instead of being three and thirteen, they were
thirteen and three and they're going to the playoffs. I
(38:47):
don't think the preparation ever changed. And so if you're
a teammate of Joe, a young Joe Platonio, you know
some of these guys that came through Cleveland, you know,
with with Joe, like at least you got to see
what a real pro looks like and what it's supposed
to look like, and and maybe that maybe that guy
that might shut it down or not go at it
(39:08):
quite as hard, and watching Joe, maybe that makes you
want to emulate him even that much more.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
I love that you mentioned that, because Thomas's legacy to
me was a part of my thought. He's the highest
offensive lineman on this list, and you could you could
pick a lot of players. There's so many great players,
but Buttonio, I'm forgetting about who else was there that
was really great? I'll think of it in a second.
But it also struck me. Miles Garrett talked about it.
He's on this list, he's at the back end, and
(39:37):
he's a guy whose first season was ZHO to sixteen
and he he saw what Joe Thomas was doing in
that season and as an example. So that's in terms
of the way he played in Cleveland. But do you
think he's had an impact Joe Thomas, that is as
a technician to the to the players and the position
that came after him.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Oh, no question, no question. When I did a film
study with him, we went back. You know, he was
a shot putter in high school and you know his
his his kick start was basically what a shot putter does,
and he just basically took the physics of throwing a
shot put. You know, both hands were rest, are were
braced on the inside knee, his right knee, his left
(40:19):
foot was back, and it was just like he was.
We did an NFL films where we basically shot him
shooting a shot put and then dropping back to you know,
I saw, you know, one of the clips that he
had was against you know, Terrell Suggs is one of
the great pass rushers and one of the great matchups.
During his tenure as a left tackle, going against Suggs,
(40:42):
you know, twice a year, So there was a carryover
from shot putting to what he developed as a left tackle.
But I mean Lane Johnson has copied him that same
start that Lane has and his strive to be as
consistent with that start he did that Jason Peters learned
that from from there. Jordan Mylotta. Now in Philadelphia, I've
(41:04):
all basically watched Joe Thomas in the copy and that's
just a couple guys. I'm just around those guys more
frequently in Philadelphia, so I know how hard they studied him.
But I would tell anybody that if you wanted, because
I you know, you get ready for the draft, greg,
you start watching these kids and studying them like I
did Joe Thomas coming out of Wisconsin. But you know,
(41:24):
what you're looking for at any level is consistency. And
so what I'll say that if a young tackle asked
me what I think, I go, Man, your your set
has to be more consistent, like it's are changing up
all the time, you're laying you're you're not hitting the
right mark. Like you could literally put a blindfold on
Joe Thomas and he would be able to hit that
(41:46):
mark his hands, his punch, where his hands landed, what
the mark, what the aiming point was, like he rarely
ever missed. And that was a big part in the
past game and the run Dame. It's interesting like he
had this thing greg where if he was on the ground,
nobody was allowed to pick him up off the ground.
Like he couldn't get up off the ground. He had
(42:06):
to off his back, so he had to roll over
onto his numbach and then push himself up off the ground.
But you go and see it like he talked about
it and joking like he would never let anybody pick
him up off the ground, you know, like gods just
helping my guy up, like that, come up off, go
Li You're you're diving in somebody's legs and you're cutting
(42:26):
him whatever. Like he that was one of his little
pet peeves, like nobody's picking me up off the ground.
I'm getting myself up off the ground.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
And yeah, to me, he's the ultimate example of a
guy who he's talked about it for offensive lineman, he
had to eat so much, and he was he he
focused so much on his career that his study habits
of all the pass rushers and studying everything was mean.
But he talked about how how much he had to
eat and that it was it was unnatural for him,
and he was He's the He's the guy who the
(42:56):
second his career ended, suddenly three months later he he
lost like fifty pounds and he looks like a totally different, amazing,
crazy human being.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Well, that happens to a lot of guys. You can
go one or two ways. Either lose the weight or
you gain it. But most of the guys that lose
it like he did, they lose it quickly because all
the things that you know, trying to cram ten twelve
thousand calories into your body, like you got so tired
of doing it and making sure that otherwise the weight,
(43:26):
especially in training camp where you're in two days. Back
in those days, you know the weight would fall off
if you didn't gram ten thousand calories. So the first
thing you do is, man, thank god, I don't have
to overread anymore. And so just the fact that you're
not just doubling twelve thousand calories into your body on
a daily basis, your weight just naturally starts to go
back to where it should be normally. So it happens
(43:48):
to a lot of guys, and I didn't think Joe's
going to be any different than those guys.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
So only six players in the history of the NFL
made the Pro Bow. By the way that each of
their first ten seasons. It's a wild list. It's Aaron Donald,
Joe Thomas, Barry Sanders, Lawrence Taylor, and then we're going
way back to mel Renfro and Merlin Olsen back in
the sixties. So that's a hell of a list to
be on, and so is this one. I felt a
(44:16):
little out of my depth with the offensive lineman, so
I hope I did you guys proud I got Walter
Jones at the back end of the list. I have
Zach Martin because I thought we needed to get an
interior guy, and he, in terms of him compared to
other guards, felt so ahead of the game. So he's
in there around seventeen. So many other great players could
have made the list, whether it's Tyron Smith. They thought
(44:36):
about Trent Williams, your guy Lane Johnson. They all would
have been worthy too. So I hope I did your
position proud Baldy, and that you're okay with my selections.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Yeah, I'm okay with it. Yeah, I'm more than fine
with it. Mean, you know there is you know, one
particular left tackle with Baltimore Greg that you might want
to consider. I'm going to drafted. I know he's drafted
in ninety six. To know if that qualifies. You know
the fact that you know we spent the early part
of his years before the twenty five year cutoff right.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
There, Jonathan Ogden had such an amazing career even after
two thousand that he did get strong consideration. And if
you were counting him from ninety six on, he would
probably be first. I would give him to you. But
he is someone who came into the league. He was
so good right off the bat, like maybe the best
part of his career was his first five six years.
(45:29):
Although he was he was something I I it helped
me take the easy way out ball these sometimes when
they had such great years before two thousand, because it
was painful. It was like picking between children. Here to
knock these guys off. So that helped me take Ogden
off because I was like, let's give it to the
guys who were almost entirely in this center.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
Yeah, about Joe and what you mentioned about the consecutive
streak of you know, Pro Bowls for him and that
rarely you know that list that you mentioned of six
of five other guys, you know, I'm I'm not saying
that the voting is always, you know, a popularity contest,
but it's kind of easy just you know, who's the
who's the best left tackle on the best team? Like
(46:08):
you kind of go in that direction sometimes and you know,
you're O sixteen, You're really going to put the left
tackle on an old sixteen team in the Pro Bowl.
A lot of players wouldn't vote like that, But that's
the respect that he garnered. Even we know that the
team and the organization was poor for long stretches of
his career, Yet the attention that he still received consistency
(46:32):
they played at is still a sign of great respect
from from his peers and from the fans that vote,
and the coaches and personnel people that all involved with voting.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Yeah, and I tried to put a little more weight
on the on the All pros, and he dominated with
that and actually pff, which you know it's not perfect,
but it's interesting because they're certainly not caring about what
the record is or anything like that. And two of
their best four seasons of all time just by by
their total score from a tackle. Two of their best
(47:04):
four seasons ever any player, any season. We're by Joe Thomas,
just just shutting people down in a great division, by
the way, four pass rushers, So I feel good about him.
We're about halfway through this list. It's gonna be tough
to top you, Baldy, Like I would just like to
spin the dial and just here, like press a button
(47:24):
and hear baldyse stories on all twenty five of these guys.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Well, you know, you sort of like to stuff over years,
but you know a lot of these things that just
get triggered by the conversation. Rig So I'm I'm happy
that you invited me in, got a chance to talk about,
you know, for of these great players, many of the
players I'd studied, you know, a week in, week out
on film, so they're pretty still pretty fresh in the
memory bank.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Appreciate Brian Baldinger and Yeah, he'll be all over the
airwaves for NFL Network in his podcasts in the upcoming season.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
Our next episode will be our fourth edition of.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
NFL daili's Top twenty five players in the last twenty
five years. We're going to be joined by Yacht whose
sports NFL analyst Nate Tice. There might be a certain
player that he was a ball boy for coming up
on that episode.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
We'll see you then,
Host
Gregg Rosenthal
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