October 4, 2025 • 30 mins
Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Ollie Connolly of The Read-Optional in London to share what teams and trends have surprised them so far this NFL season. They discuss Drake Maye and the Patriots passing game (1:39), troubling Packers trends (12:00) and Sam Darnold excelling in Seattle (20:00).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're still getting over Nick
Benito sacking us earlier this week.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I am Greg Rosenthal.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
I am here in the Talk Sports studios talking to
one of my favorite analysts in the game. Yes, it's
an extra show. We're here in London. I wanted to
have Ali on more than once. Allie Connolly, Welcome, and
I love the fact that you are no longer really
on Twitter or any social media, so you have no
idea what I'm talking about when it comes to Nick Benito.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I only know through listening to this show. Getting out
of the takest fit is fun. You getting burned by
the quickest play off the ball in the NFL is
one of the highlights of my season.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Totally burned. And the sad thing is I talked him up. Okay,
I gotta get over it, but just people just keep
bringing up. So Allie Connolly runs one of the best
substacks and podcasts in the game, The Read Optional Go Subscribe.
It is the best, most in depth if you're really
into football podcasts out there with John Ledyard and Ali
(01:12):
also writes these great pieces as part of the substack.
So we're going to go over just four weeks in
back and forth, just some surprises, and we only have
a little bit of time here, so let's just get
going with it.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I'll have you start.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
The number one surprise to me is the efficiency of
the Patriots passing game. I've had high expectations as the
McDaniels may polish it, but this has exceeded my expectations.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
How excited are you feeling?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Are you just sucking up to me knowing I'm a
Patriots fans going with this as you're like your first thing.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
No, it's kind of a pad in the bag because
I did mean as pod in the offseason, I did
the quarterback draft while you picked for the next three years,
and I think I took Drake May like fourth overall.
I was kind of having an out of body experience,
and I think I took him full. So I'm trying
to rev my own, you know, crank the juice.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Of Josh McDaniels has done a really good job watching
them every week. That just looks like, oh yeah, this
looks like a highly schemed offense that knows how to
get receivers open. What have you seen that he's done
to help Drake May?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Specifically, the thing that really stands out is how expansive
it is, how sophisticated it is, how much new stuff
there is every week. And I thought, when McDaniel's got there,
it's really this fusion of here's all the glorious stuff.
When we're in the passing game, it's all the Brady goodness,
and then in the wrong game, I'm going to take
all the camstuff I around from twenty twenty and it's
the first time micro as a coach, I've been able
(02:35):
to fuse those two ideas together. But the volume and
the amount of different patches every week, that's not something
I kind of associated with. Drake maker me into the season,
I thought maybe he would be a little bit overwhelmed
by all the bradiness of the passing game and it
would take maybe two years of the partnership to really
tap into everything. So they mount they put on his plate,
(02:57):
and how successful and how effortless. A lot of it
looks for me guy all wide open, to be fair,
but the effortless of him running the whole operation stands
out to me.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
He's so young and the Drake may believers in the
draft of which you were one. Nate Tice was certainly
one always thought he should have gotten more credit for
how he read the field, like how smart he was.
How is that showing up, because there are moments still
like that, the turnovers as well as he played in
(03:26):
the Pittsburgh game. Other than the turnovers, like there are
plays where he fritzes out a little bit. What have
you seen in terms of him having that balance of
like being that incredible athlete and just.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Doing kind of what McDaniels wants him to do.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
I think you're just gonna have to live with that
being two Also boneheaded plays a game, but that's down
from the five to four that was in good weeks
last season, and furth long than I thought he would be.
Everything is just so fast with him so quick, the
decision making, knowing where to go with the ball. His
eyes are never in the wrong place. Now every makes
a good decision. Once he gets the is kind of
(04:02):
a different conversation. But he knows immediately what to attack
and does it really quickly. And that's just not what
was happening last season. I mean, it was a mess
anyway all through last season, behind the scenes, obviously on
the field. I just I'm surprised he looks so comfortable,
and I'm surprised how much they've put on his plate.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Solely, I'm excited that he gets a national stage against
the Bills defense it's not playing that well.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
I think that could be a fun, high scoring game.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I do like there is part of me that is
watching it and can't quite believe that a very effective
offense exists in the year twenty twenty five in the
NFL without a great offensive line in particular, and with
Hunter Henry probably as the key like pass catcher on
the team. Like it's Hunter Henry, it's Digs a little
(04:52):
bit now, but like the offense kind of goes through
Hunter Henry, and this is an effective way of like
doing business.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
The offense goes through May.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
His threat as a downhill runner makes them essentially plus
one in every area in the field because people are
terrified of him running downhill and they've flashed that early
on with some of the option games stuff, and so
it just broadens the field for every defense. And so
you get why it's Hunter Henry who is not quick
off the ball wide open eight yards down the field
(05:21):
basically every other play. So I think that you're seeing
with May this like force multiplying effect that the really
great ones have, and it's just strange to see guys
that open when the talent is not all the way there.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
And the connection with.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Digs Now from last week in particular, I think that's
really ramping up. They have great chemistry. May may already
be on the three best back shoulder throw guys in
the league. That's actually a pretty short list at the
moment because Aaron's not throwing them so well in more
these days. But he just feels like the complete full
field threat individually the way you get with the really
great ones Alan Lamar, and it's just you get the
(06:00):
consistent that One of the things I do love the
grendular things about him. He's such a power thrower, and
you love recognizes when he has to take pays off
the ball. Everything about him slows down, like you can
see him thinking, oh no, I've got to be really
slow on this one. Josh has told me I got
one to and I hit the checkdown, and he just
seems bored of the easy stuff, but he actually he
gets to and does the easy stuff. Compared to when
you watch sometimes Daniels and particularly Caleb, it's like they're
(06:23):
just not interested in the easy work.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
They want to do the really difficult stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
If we just clipped that last forty five seconds and
sent it to Bill Simmons, he would have you.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
On his podcast. So we need to do this.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
We need to sell some subscriptions while you're here. We
only have so much time, you know, together. How is
the Will Campbell experience in your mind so far? Some
good run game reps for sure. To this untrained die, the.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Run game reps are legit, and getting him out into
space is like a prominent part of the offense that
there is a shelf life on that stuff. I alway
thinking about this with Penny Sewel, where they'll have three
or four plays a season where it's all out in
space and it's usually like Sunday night football or a
primetime game, and so I think people believe that's like
a core element of the Lion's offense when it's like, really,
that's four or five plays a season and he's just
(07:11):
a complete freak and ninety percent of his work is
doing the dirty offensive line work at the highest level
you can in the league. With Campbell, I still have
real concerns about absorbing knock back power and not even
against a Jared ver So, the truly great power rush.
I just don't think you can quite sink and bend
the way the real great ones can to absorb power,
and so it's more of a finesse game at Bradbury's
(07:34):
been really good inside talk about surprise of the season,
having like a quality center and a league where there's
like three good centers at the moment, that's been a surprise.
But Campbell specifically, I still just like sometimes you get
in your gut, I'm like, I think he could be
a really really gifted guard and you could unlock more
in the offense with him at guard than just trying
to force tackle. Because you took him at a premier
(07:54):
spot in the draft.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
My hope was just can he be Anthony Costanzo, Not
the same style, but like that level of player Bernard Rhymean,
that'd be fine.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I'd be fine, But I think he could be Joe Toney.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
God, that's fair, Okay, my first surprise, and I'll speed
it up. It's kind of the teams that are bad
at rushing the ball, so it's like the whole offseason, it's.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
The year, you know, now where everyone's going to run and.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
It's like maybe the defenses were more ready for that
than we think. First of all, and then it's specifically
the teams that are bad at it. Some of them
are injuries. The Buccaneers being this bad largely because of injuries.
The forty nine Ers, I'm not sure I'm going to
give them that big of a pass. They actually kind
of have their group back. They're one of the worst
(08:39):
running teams. The Cardinals are one of the worst running
teams in the league. And then if you look at
the teams that go heaviest twelve personnel. Everyone loves talking
about twelve personnel, the extra tight end on the field,
and it's up.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
A few percentage points.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
If you look at the teams that are the heaviest,
they're almost uniformly the worst running teams in the league
right now, which I find interesting. So the Browns are
in that mix, the Bears are in that mix, the Cardinals,
the Ravens are in that mix. The Packers are surprisingly
bad running team. They're not as much twelve I don't
think that the Chiefs are another team. Like to me,
(09:16):
I'm just grouping all these teams together and curious what
you think about. Like some of the teams specifically and
why these running games aren't working.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, they each have their own particular challenges.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
I think something that's important to note is if you
just isolate the run game as a standalone in twenty
twenty five, it's really difficult to rip something away from it.
If you don't bring you almost need to combine like
wors success rate with play action explosiveness because they're only
investing in the rung game to such a degree to
hit play action explosives to make it look, smell, feel
(09:47):
like they really intend on running the ball, and particularly
in twelve, to try and get some of the mismatch
stuff by getting a shall linebacker on the field. So
it's like when you see the Sea Oaks run game
figures the pretty poll for a team that have brought
in Clint Kuba, can you expect to be a very
good rushing team. But they are hitting chunk plays all
over the place, specifically because they're in a formation, in
a set, in a look that is telling you we
(10:09):
want to run the ball. So as long as your
investment you get the payoff in the play action game,
that to me is like perfectly fine. It's if the
play action game is poor and the wrong game is poor,
You're in trouble. And it's not the having a good
running attack alone creates the play action game, but it's
do you have enough variation, enough different looks in the
way you tried to run the ball. If you're to
(10:30):
silid as we do one thing, we are a wide
zone team, that's trouble. That's trouble for everyone. If you
have a really varied rung game and it's just pretty poor,
which is what the books have, you can at least
get to the play action shots.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
So maybe the Packers would be an example of like, yeah,
it's not totally clicking, and injuries are certainly a big
part of that, but it is setting up like formationally
what else we're doing.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
The pack is in particular, it's tough. Fine.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Lafloor is like a demigod of my life. I love
Matt Lafleur, but he he's after Sunday night, even a
clock management. He's put together some pretty ropie game plans
by his standards. I think if you gave him some
truth serm, he would say, that's not some of my
best work.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
The game plan against.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
The the Browns in particular was like a Hall of Fame,
bad one for him, which I'm sure he would want back.
So I think there's as much as that has gone
into it, Like this situational play calling is pretty poor.
The game planning against the opponent as not being like,
let's attack a weakness. It's like, we're just going to
do what we do, and that's just never been the
way he's rolled.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Maybe a team that will benefit from the week off,
yeah right now, but yeah, like I don't know, just
see like just seeing like the Cardinals make no sense
with a running game this bad to me. It feels
like they're a little dead on arrival. If that's the case,
the forty nine ers feel a little I know they're
three and one, they'll figure it out if they get
(11:53):
everyone healthy, but they feel a little dead. While we're
talking Packers, I'll just throw out my second one too,
which is that like the Packers didn't get a win
in a two games sample against the Browns and the Cowboys, Like,
I know you had them winning the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
I believe.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
I think you had them winning the Super Bowl before
the Michael Parsons Jakes.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
I mean, and I've done that now for like three
years in Okay, so I'm just going down with the
ship until it's proven correct.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Like what how did that happen?
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Like?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
What do you think about these last two weeks?
Speaker 3 (12:22):
The last two, like I said, the Browns one being
so many penalties and just a pretty poor game plan
on offense against a team that can only really score
ten points in a game on offense is a bad one.
The Cowboys one being the clock management. They're going up
against maybe the most cohesive offense in the NFL, and
it shows maybe some of the concerns with the Packers
defensively for the fun and joy of all the creativity
(12:44):
on the back end and having microing those guys up
front of the creativity in the in the pressure game
when it's just one on one third down, who's got
the best players? I still don't know if they stack
up with that, And that's where I would get consumer. Okay,
if they have to go into the link in the
playoffs and it's third down and they've got aj Brown,
what are we actually doing?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Who do we put on Dallas?
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Gotta to figure that stuff out, So that'll be my
concient but I still think the underlying profile of what
they do explosive plays against good teams being able to
create pressure with full So that's like the Super Bowl profile.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah, I'm not too worried. I think they would have
been my Super Bowl pick. I had the Lions, and
I wasn't gonna just change it. Like I'm not. I'm
not worried about the Packers because of those two games.
But when I was thinking, like, what was the most
surprising thing that happened like that, that pretty much was it?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Right now?
Speaker 1 (13:33):
You said something interesting there though, that the Cowboys were
the most cohesive offense potentially in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Is that is that on your list?
Speaker 3 (13:39):
No? Can we talk about that too, Like my guy
Clayton Adams goes in, they ultimately have the best run
game in football. You go look at the Codinals run
games not looking so pretty.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So you say cohesive like you're talking about the marriage
of the passing game and the running game, because I've
talked a lot about how just watching Dak I don't
know if you like, I think.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
He's been the best quarterback in the league this year.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
If I had to choose one, it's tough to choose,
like to not choose Josh Allen. So whatever, you're just picking,
like two amazing quarterbacks. But that's I love watching the
style of that Dak plays like. But we haven't talked
a lot about the running game, Like what have you
seen in terms of the running game and how that
works with.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
The passing game?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yeah, it's they do everything and they were not a
very good gap oriented base run team basically ever since
Dax being that, it's always been zone and kicking and
going and stretching the field and then he would boot
out then and then when Dak's legs started to go
and he stopped using the legs, it was no longer
even effective. No one respected the boots out to the now,
(14:42):
they've got Clayton Adams, as we mentioned, who is the
go to guy for like you want to build a
power spread system at downhill running attack system. He's the
one guy in the league right now and has been
honestly for three full seasons. And you see the impact
on the Cardinals when he left. The thing I just
love about them is there's a rhythm to create off
the one you just feel in your bones when it's
like this thing rolling down a hill where it's like
(15:03):
they just feel like a freight train. The rhythm they
have in and out of the huddle, bouncing between the
wrong game to play action. How it all ties together
to Duck, you know, drop back game from an assented
to Duck seeing the field and spreading it around. They've
been able to marry up like him wanting to be
paid to Monning with him accepting like, well, there has
to be some movement emotion in this offense pre snap,
(15:26):
which he's just never really allowed since kellam Moole left.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I don't think people.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
And I would include myself in this, have really wrapped
their minds around the fact that they just put up
forty on the defense going into the week that I
would have said was the best defense in the league.
With Cavanti Turpin as their number two receiver, Gavante Williams
who's looked great but as their number one running back,
(15:51):
and massive injuries on the offensive line, like missing two
of their guys in the interior and benching they're left
tackle during that game. It's kind of a coaching masterpiece,
and I'm loving it because I was. I was kind
of high, not high, but I thought Brian Schottenheimer could
be a better head coach than he was a coordinator,
and the Adams higher and the fact that he's empowering
(16:13):
him that I think that was the worry in Dallas
was like are they going to let him.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Do this running game?
Speaker 1 (16:19):
And I guess the answer is yes, based on like
the training camp I saw. It was the biggest mismatch
in any training camp possible was the Cowboys offense versus
the Cowboys defense every day. I think it just gave
them so much confidence after that month that no one.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Could tell them anything were moving to go for the
Lions defense. Being this good this fests it asks me
a little bit shook because I thought they would be
really good by like week eighteen and around into foam
for the playoffs, and it surprises me that they've been
able to get up to speed this quickly.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
So what about them?
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Because there's not like a secondary pass rusher really other
than Aiden Hudgins, And so what are they doing that
makes it work?
Speaker 3 (16:58):
I mean, Sheffood, to his credit, has basically said, now,
I love when coaches do this, like they've been waiting
in the sidelines and the wings for like work on
their philosophy and tinkering away. Then they get put in
the big boy chair and it's like I'm gonna do
everything I think the old guy was doing wrong. I'm
going to throw everything Aaron Glenn did for the most
part and try and build my own style.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
And that's where I thought it would take.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Some time to be like this push pull tension between
we know what's successful, we've run it for years, and
then Shepper comes in and says, what we were doing
previously was pretty old fashioned, pretty outdated. You see it
now with the Jets, and it doesn't look so pretty
when you don't have Aiden Hutchinson up from We got
to be more of a pressure based team. We have
the blitz on earlier downs and he's brought them. If
you go and look at the best teams over the
(17:37):
past three seasons defensively, they all have kind of these
trigger points in terms of like early down blitz rates,
sim pressure rate, format pressure rate. They're above the threshold
for all of those best groups in the league to
get those pieces to fit into that right to wait,
they have obviously a crazy amount of talent. I just
thought that would take a lot of time before they
could figure it out. And even in Week one, it
(17:59):
was pure ego coaching from Sheppy's dropping Hutchinson on third
down and it's like, Okay, this guy's a little over skis,
it's a little bit too philosophy over the players. And
immediately it just course corrected and he's like, Okay, some
of the stuff I did was wrong.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Let's go play football.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
So you said, like a ridiculous amount of talent? What
what Brian Branch stands out obviously, and Hutchinson is just
like premier players, what are you?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
What are you seeing about? Like how they're using talent.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Kirby as well McNeil coming back the Lamar game plan,
when we do like game plans of the year, which
you probably wouldn't do, but I certainly would do set
at home.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
It is my goal if anyone from my heart is listening,
like I've been wanting to hire.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Ali Connelly for a while, and then we would do
game plans of the year.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
If you had told me off the week one when
I saw Kelvin Sheppard's game plan, which was all about
Kelvin Sheppard, which I accept and he's really articulate and
I think he's a fabulous coach, but it was all
about look at me.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
It was a look at meat plan.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
If you told me a few weeks later, he would
go against Top Monker and Lamar Jackson and undressed them.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
How would it be flawed?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Do you remember where you were when Calvin Sheppard was
traded for Jerry Hughes one for one and I don't remember, no,
and like it was kind of like we don't want
it was kind of just like a mistake trade, like whoops,
we blew it.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
And then Jerry.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Hughes went on to have like one of the most
underrated careers ever. And I bring this up roughly once
a month for some reason on this show.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Give me another surprise. I'm going back to you. The
Seahawks offense.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Okay, it was one of those ones where I could
understand the rationale of every individual move if you isolated
each move. And then when we got to the preseason,
I sat down, I looked at the death shot. I
was like, they looked like there was a quarterback and
the receiving Collux was I'm not sure the line is improved.
And then when you start seeing them play the games,
you see how every piece slots in together and everything
(19:57):
amplifies one another, particularly I think with the receip even
call Smith and Jig but go into a whole different level.
But them having kind of a security blanket middle of the field.
Guy in Cooper cub Holton being the deep threat. What
they're doing with the tight ends to kind of play
underneath than in Jig was just your three level. We
found a superstar type guy. And then Donald is just
playing unconscious conscious football.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Talk to me more about Donald, because I do get
the feeling. I think he's playing even better than he
was playing in Minnesota. He's doing the easy stuff, but
he's he's making a lot of like tough throws under pressure.
He does seem more calm when when he's under pressure
this year.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yeah, it does. Every single throw is effectively in rhythm.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
And then the one or two times a game that
he's not on rhythm, he's making Matthew Stafford throws and
there's not a single throw he doesn't believe like I
can rip it down the field. There's a there's a
great shot in the last game where it's double anything
off play action is out the hand immediately and there's
guy's at double coved and you can see him thinking,
(21:00):
if I just put it on someone's face, musk, I
can split the bull coverage and it's like okay, Buddy
sum Donald and he rips it and you can do it.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah. We were at dinner the other night with our
friend Henry Hodgson and a couple of the people from
the NFL office.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
They were like, what, what's the most surprising thing? Give
me the two minute recap of this season? So where
I couldn't think of anything. The only thing I could
think of was.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Like, I don't know, Like I don't know if two
are the good teams. Like there's like ten pretty good teams,
but I don't I don't think right now, I don't
know if there's this big separation. But in my head,
like the Seahawks are as good as any team in
the NFL right now. And then I saw this week
after that that they were number one in DVA at
(21:40):
least for now, and I was like, yeah, that kind
of checks out to me. They kind of do everything well. Yeah,
if I'm afraid that Sam d I'm gonna like forget
Nick Benito. I'm gonna be wearing my anti Sam Donald bias,
like in Santa Clara in February.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
At this rate, my only consume with them is some
of the Rung Games stuff. It is way more very
everything you would ever imagine with Clink Kuby, like the
first week was basically his dad's coal sheet plastered Uncle
the Seahawks, like he picked up the wrong copy for
the game day and I was like, uh oh. And
then I was like, okay, that is gonna run the
Kuback offense. It looked pretty good. Then everyone else in
the defensive side will say, let's go call Waite Phillips,
(22:15):
get his old plans, and we'll beat the sun, you know,
over the head that way. And all of a sudden,
now they've got this really varied rushing attack. It's not
all that effective. It does trigger some of the play
action stuff. I do have a fear that they'll just
revert into themselves and be like, the best thing we
can do is just give the ball to Kenneth Walker
and give him a chance to you know, plant and
cook and go, and just Donald is on such a
(22:35):
heater cannot sustain. But I do think they have the
best defense top the bomb in the NFL. Depth coaching talent.
I just think that will be the best group by
the end of the season. And if they don't need
Donald to play at this kind of level to go
and win multiple playoff games, right.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I think the game we're gonna call together on Talk Sport.
Everyone should check it out. It'll be me and Ali
and Will Gavin is a reminder how difficult it is
to build around defense in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
But the Seahawks are the perfect way to do it.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
They have a really efficient and good offense to support
that defense, like Darnold doesn't have to do everything, and
they have.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
An awesome special teams unit.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I don't know if that's going to continue all year,
but they've probably been the best special teams unit led
by Jay Harbaugh, which leads me to my last surprise.
This is more of a take than I'm just going
to throw by you and see what you think. Like,
is John Harbas still a good NFL head coach.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
The thing that I don't like about the national conversation
about John Habball is they just bundle him in as, Oh,
he's special teams guy CEO. Yeah, he's kind of fraudulent.
He sits in on every single defensive staff meeting. He
builds the game plan on defense. The defense is an abomination,
and it's not the first time it's fall off the cliff.
Last season, the communication system was an absolute mess. He
(23:48):
had to call DMPs and be like, can you figure
out how to get plays to communicate for us? Like
that's what they drafted him in to do, essentially, and
no one ever criticized him for it. And it's like, Boh,
he's not in charge of that, He's just the head coach.
Like no, he sits in every meeting his game plan
and it's falling apart two years in a row.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I think he does.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
I mean, first of all, the head coach ultimately deserves
responsibility for for everything. But yes, he's done the hiring.
He's he has a big hand in that. I think
he's an intimidating guy and people like that come across
him or are a little afraid of him in a
way that they're not of other NFL coaches. Was just
interesting because he's not like a like a burly, huge
(24:24):
form of player. But there's just it's always been on
my raidar. There's something drill, suge and vibe. There's something
under the surface there that they don't really have fighting
places to pivot now, even if they just moved on
from Zachor And I imagine we will get something where
an advisor comes in or we get like the long
athletic piece that is.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Quietly behind the scenes.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Zachol was removed from some responsibilities and Pegano's taking on
some more. I imagine that's where we're heading with the thing.
The talent has just gone now though, with all the
injuries and losing Matabuike is just brutal.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yeah, the game this week, they I think are missing
their five highest paid players.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I mean that's just like, what really can you do?
Speaker 1 (25:04):
They were they were on pay for the healthiest team
in the league last year, and now it's like the opposite.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
You can lose the talent and say, way, not as
talent as we should be. You can get lined up,
you can communicate, that's on the stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Okay, we're gonna do this game. We might have let's
let's talk. We only have a couple of minutes left.
But like I mentioned, these two defenses. I have now
drilled down a little bit watching the Browns my beloved
aiden Huntington from two lane looking good two side player. Like,
(25:38):
one thing I thought about this year is how because
you can see it on the Dallas defense and you
can see it on the Green Bay defense, that I
may be underrated. Was just I shouldn't have the multiplying
effect of a truly great one.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Great one and.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Watching Malik Collins play the best football of his life
and looking at this entire defensive line playing well around
Miles Garrett and this defense, like what what have you
seen out of the Browns defenses? Isaiah mcguireth too, I
think he kind of gets bundled in It is like, well,
Miles is great, so that helps him out. No, he
in his own right is a really effective good play.
They just have the great one and then they've got
three really good plays beside him, which is why they
(26:13):
just dominating everyone. And that's probably the most simplistic structurally
defensive the league in an era of everyone wants to
describe disguise and be creative and the coaches get all
applaudeds for that.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
It's just four guys up front mauling everyone over and
over again.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
And Alex Right is one of them. Like that watching.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
The film and you just love to see it because
this team is not great, but Miles Garrett is playing
with just an energy that is insane. It just feels
like like there's not a play. And this was against
the Lions, who have a good offensive line. There's there's
not a play that like he doesn't impact that Like
I could find maybe like four in an entire.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Game, which is which is just crazy.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
And the energy he has, like you can run away
from him, but he tracks it on the back side.
It's I'm very excited to just go watch him live,
even even if people like aren't thrilled with the lowest
over under in any NFL game this year for Vikings Browns, and.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
If he's not impacting the pocket on the play, he
impacts the play calling. They face the most screens of
any team of the last two seasons because people like,
let's just get the ball out as quick as possible,
lift the play another down, and not have him affect
things that way. It's just fun to see a defense
base a we declare, these four guys are coming, let's
see if you can deal with it, and all four
guys are really good. It's no longer just that Miles
(27:33):
is sensational. It's like they've got a lot of talent
there and they roll through. I mean, they've run about
seven deep at this point. Mason Graham's the first round pick,
and he's in the rotation more than he is like
the most impactful.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
One on one player, just so deep. I can't wait
to watch.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Him if we had if we had more time, I
would talk about how much Mason Graham was on the
ground in that Lions game.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
But I'm trying to be nice.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
The closer we get to this game, I think maybe
the Browns are actually gonna win, because how do you think, okay,
that line versus the Browns offensive The Vikings upfront versus
the Browns offensive line is such a mismatch, and Dylan
Gabriel's the quarterback, And then on the flip side, I
think it's even a bigger mess match with how banged
up the Vikings are, and it's going against Carson Wentz,
(28:19):
who's I think been okay actually the last couple of
weeks on the Carson Wentz scale. But he's gonna freak
out certainly a handful of snaps like which quarterback.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Do you think will could handle it better?
Speaker 3 (28:31):
That's a tricky one. It's just so unknown with Dylan Gabriel.
I actually think it will be good for Dylan Gabriel,
as still as this sounds full of the Browns, for
him to have a game where he looks really lost
and confused and is a bit in over his head.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I think that will actually work well. From long time.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
I'm reminded of when Jordan Love first came into a
game against the Chiefs. If you remember that one his
SPACs just blew him apaw. He did not know what
was happening in the NFL, and so Love went away
and said, I'm dedicating my life to becoming the best
guy pick up the blitz in pro football.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
And he actually did it when he came up to
face the Eagles. He torched them.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Yeah, but he had like a year to do that,
like Gabriel's is going to have to start.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
He did. But I think, you know this idea of
like saving a guy for the right defense, to right approach,
like go and see the most difficult thing, the most
complex thing, up front and learn how hard this is,
so when you face an easy one, it's going to
feel really easy.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
And then I think, just get.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Into big personnel and the same way the Steelers tried
to do and say you put your big bodies on
the field, we'll put ours on. He can move a
little bit in a way that Flacco could not. Wentz
want me is horrifying. He's maybe the worst guy to
throw out there if there's just a foreman and go
a rush because he just panics anyway.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
So if he's panicking and.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
There's seven guys back there that this could be two
four five turnover game.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I think it's going to be ugly fun.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
There's some games that are so ugly they become beautiful
and that's the game we are going to call on Sunday. Yes,
it'll be the Will Gavin of football games. Thank you
Ali again everyone check out the read optional. Was really
glad that we could squeeze in this extra show.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
It's been a great week and.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
A half over in Ireland and now the UK.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
We have one more show to go.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
We will be doing our Sunday night recap in the
Talk Sports studios.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I will be with Will and Allie.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
We will see you Sunday night.
Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're still getting over Nick
Benito sacking us earlier this week.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I am Greg Rosenthal.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
I am here in the Talk Sports studios talking to
one of my favorite analysts in the game. Yes, it's
an extra show. We're here in London. I wanted to
have Ali on more than once. Allie Connolly, Welcome, and
I love the fact that you are no longer really
on Twitter or any social media, so you have no
idea what I'm talking about when it comes to Nick Benito.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I only know through listening to this show. Getting out
of the takest fit is fun. You getting burned by
the quickest play off the ball in the NFL is
one of the highlights of my season.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Totally burned. And the sad thing is I talked him up. Okay,
I gotta get over it, but just people just keep
bringing up. So Allie Connolly runs one of the best
substacks and podcasts in the game, The Read Optional Go Subscribe.
It is the best, most in depth if you're really
into football podcasts out there with John Ledyard and Ali
(01:12):
also writes these great pieces as part of the substack.
So we're going to go over just four weeks in
back and forth, just some surprises, and we only have
a little bit of time here, so let's just get
going with it.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I'll have you start.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
The number one surprise to me is the efficiency of
the Patriots passing game. I've had high expectations as the
McDaniels may polish it, but this has exceeded my expectations.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
How excited are you feeling?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Are you just sucking up to me knowing I'm a
Patriots fans going with this as you're like your first thing.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
No, it's kind of a pad in the bag because
I did mean as pod in the offseason, I did
the quarterback draft while you picked for the next three years,
and I think I took Drake May like fourth overall.
I was kind of having an out of body experience,
and I think I took him full. So I'm trying
to rev my own, you know, crank the juice.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Of Josh McDaniels has done a really good job watching
them every week. That just looks like, oh yeah, this
looks like a highly schemed offense that knows how to
get receivers open. What have you seen that he's done
to help Drake May?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Specifically, the thing that really stands out is how expansive
it is, how sophisticated it is, how much new stuff
there is every week. And I thought, when McDaniel's got there,
it's really this fusion of here's all the glorious stuff.
When we're in the passing game, it's all the Brady goodness,
and then in the wrong game, I'm going to take
all the camstuff I around from twenty twenty and it's
the first time micro as a coach, I've been able
(02:35):
to fuse those two ideas together. But the volume and
the amount of different patches every week, that's not something
I kind of associated with. Drake maker me into the season,
I thought maybe he would be a little bit overwhelmed
by all the bradiness of the passing game and it
would take maybe two years of the partnership to really
tap into everything. So they mount they put on his plate,
(02:57):
and how successful and how effortless. A lot of it
looks for me guy all wide open, to be fair,
but the effortless of him running the whole operation stands
out to me.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
He's so young and the Drake may believers in the
draft of which you were one. Nate Tice was certainly
one always thought he should have gotten more credit for
how he read the field, like how smart he was.
How is that showing up, because there are moments still
like that, the turnovers as well as he played in
(03:26):
the Pittsburgh game. Other than the turnovers, like there are
plays where he fritzes out a little bit. What have
you seen in terms of him having that balance of
like being that incredible athlete and just.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Doing kind of what McDaniels wants him to do.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
I think you're just gonna have to live with that
being two Also boneheaded plays a game, but that's down
from the five to four that was in good weeks
last season, and furth long than I thought he would be.
Everything is just so fast with him so quick, the
decision making, knowing where to go with the ball. His
eyes are never in the wrong place. Now every makes
a good decision. Once he gets the is kind of
(04:02):
a different conversation. But he knows immediately what to attack
and does it really quickly. And that's just not what
was happening last season. I mean, it was a mess
anyway all through last season, behind the scenes, obviously on
the field. I just I'm surprised he looks so comfortable,
and I'm surprised how much they've put on his plate.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Solely, I'm excited that he gets a national stage against
the Bills defense it's not playing that well.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
I think that could be a fun, high scoring game.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I do like there is part of me that is
watching it and can't quite believe that a very effective
offense exists in the year twenty twenty five in the
NFL without a great offensive line in particular, and with
Hunter Henry probably as the key like pass catcher on
the team. Like it's Hunter Henry, it's Digs a little
(04:52):
bit now, but like the offense kind of goes through
Hunter Henry, and this is an effective way of like
doing business.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
The offense goes through May.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
His threat as a downhill runner makes them essentially plus
one in every area in the field because people are
terrified of him running downhill and they've flashed that early
on with some of the option games stuff, and so
it just broadens the field for every defense. And so
you get why it's Hunter Henry who is not quick
off the ball wide open eight yards down the field
(05:21):
basically every other play. So I think that you're seeing
with May this like force multiplying effect that the really
great ones have, and it's just strange to see guys
that open when the talent is not all the way there.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
And the connection with.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Digs Now from last week in particular, I think that's
really ramping up. They have great chemistry. May may already
be on the three best back shoulder throw guys in
the league. That's actually a pretty short list at the
moment because Aaron's not throwing them so well in more
these days. But he just feels like the complete full
field threat individually the way you get with the really
great ones Alan Lamar, and it's just you get the
(06:00):
consistent that One of the things I do love the
grendular things about him. He's such a power thrower, and
you love recognizes when he has to take pays off
the ball. Everything about him slows down, like you can
see him thinking, oh no, I've got to be really
slow on this one. Josh has told me I got
one to and I hit the checkdown, and he just
seems bored of the easy stuff, but he actually he
gets to and does the easy stuff. Compared to when
you watch sometimes Daniels and particularly Caleb, it's like they're
(06:23):
just not interested in the easy work.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
They want to do the really difficult stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
If we just clipped that last forty five seconds and
sent it to Bill Simmons, he would have you.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
On his podcast. So we need to do this.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
We need to sell some subscriptions while you're here. We
only have so much time, you know, together. How is
the Will Campbell experience in your mind so far? Some
good run game reps for sure. To this untrained die, the.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Run game reps are legit, and getting him out into
space is like a prominent part of the offense that
there is a shelf life on that stuff. I alway
thinking about this with Penny Sewel, where they'll have three
or four plays a season where it's all out in
space and it's usually like Sunday night football or a
primetime game, and so I think people believe that's like
a core element of the Lion's offense when it's like, really,
that's four or five plays a season and he's just
(07:11):
a complete freak and ninety percent of his work is
doing the dirty offensive line work at the highest level
you can in the league. With Campbell, I still have
real concerns about absorbing knock back power and not even
against a Jared ver So, the truly great power rush.
I just don't think you can quite sink and bend
the way the real great ones can to absorb power,
and so it's more of a finesse game at Bradbury's
(07:34):
been really good inside talk about surprise of the season,
having like a quality center and a league where there's
like three good centers at the moment, that's been a surprise.
But Campbell specifically, I still just like sometimes you get
in your gut, I'm like, I think he could be
a really really gifted guard and you could unlock more
in the offense with him at guard than just trying
to force tackle. Because you took him at a premier
(07:54):
spot in the draft.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
My hope was just can he be Anthony Costanzo, Not
the same style, but like that level of player Bernard Rhymean,
that'd be fine.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I'd be fine, But I think he could be Joe Toney.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
God, that's fair, Okay, my first surprise, and I'll speed
it up. It's kind of the teams that are bad
at rushing the ball, so it's like the whole offseason, it's.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
The year, you know, now where everyone's going to run and.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
It's like maybe the defenses were more ready for that
than we think. First of all, and then it's specifically
the teams that are bad at it. Some of them
are injuries. The Buccaneers being this bad largely because of injuries.
The forty nine Ers, I'm not sure I'm going to
give them that big of a pass. They actually kind
of have their group back. They're one of the worst
(08:39):
running teams. The Cardinals are one of the worst running
teams in the league. And then if you look at
the teams that go heaviest twelve personnel. Everyone loves talking
about twelve personnel, the extra tight end on the field,
and it's up.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
A few percentage points.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
If you look at the teams that are the heaviest,
they're almost uniformly the worst running teams in the league
right now, which I find interesting. So the Browns are
in that mix, the Bears are in that mix, the Cardinals,
the Ravens are in that mix. The Packers are surprisingly
bad running team. They're not as much twelve I don't
think that the Chiefs are another team. Like to me,
(09:16):
I'm just grouping all these teams together and curious what
you think about. Like some of the teams specifically and
why these running games aren't working.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, they each have their own particular challenges.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
I think something that's important to note is if you
just isolate the run game as a standalone in twenty
twenty five, it's really difficult to rip something away from it.
If you don't bring you almost need to combine like
wors success rate with play action explosiveness because they're only
investing in the rung game to such a degree to
hit play action explosives to make it look, smell, feel
(09:47):
like they really intend on running the ball, and particularly
in twelve, to try and get some of the mismatch
stuff by getting a shall linebacker on the field. So
it's like when you see the Sea Oaks run game
figures the pretty poll for a team that have brought
in Clint Kuba, can you expect to be a very
good rushing team. But they are hitting chunk plays all
over the place, specifically because they're in a formation, in
a set, in a look that is telling you we
(10:09):
want to run the ball. So as long as your
investment you get the payoff in the play action game,
that to me is like perfectly fine. It's if the
play action game is poor and the wrong game is poor,
You're in trouble. And it's not the having a good
running attack alone creates the play action game, but it's
do you have enough variation, enough different looks in the
way you tried to run the ball. If you're to
(10:30):
silid as we do one thing, we are a wide
zone team, that's trouble. That's trouble for everyone. If you
have a really varied rung game and it's just pretty poor,
which is what the books have, you can at least
get to the play action shots.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
So maybe the Packers would be an example of like, yeah,
it's not totally clicking, and injuries are certainly a big
part of that, but it is setting up like formationally
what else we're doing.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
The pack is in particular, it's tough. Fine.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Lafloor is like a demigod of my life. I love
Matt Lafleur, but he he's after Sunday night, even a
clock management. He's put together some pretty ropie game plans
by his standards. I think if you gave him some
truth serm, he would say, that's not some of my
best work.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
The game plan against.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
The the Browns in particular was like a Hall of Fame,
bad one for him, which I'm sure he would want back.
So I think there's as much as that has gone
into it, Like this situational play calling is pretty poor.
The game planning against the opponent as not being like,
let's attack a weakness. It's like, we're just going to
do what we do, and that's just never been the
way he's rolled.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Maybe a team that will benefit from the week off,
yeah right now, but yeah, like I don't know, just
see like just seeing like the Cardinals make no sense
with a running game this bad to me. It feels
like they're a little dead on arrival. If that's the case,
the forty nine ers feel a little I know they're
three and one, they'll figure it out if they get
(11:53):
everyone healthy, but they feel a little dead. While we're
talking Packers, I'll just throw out my second one too,
which is that like the Packers didn't get a win
in a two games sample against the Browns and the Cowboys, Like,
I know you had them winning the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
I believe.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
I think you had them winning the Super Bowl before
the Michael Parsons Jakes.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
I mean, and I've done that now for like three
years in Okay, so I'm just going down with the
ship until it's proven correct.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Like what how did that happen?
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Like?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
What do you think about these last two weeks?
Speaker 3 (12:22):
The last two, like I said, the Browns one being
so many penalties and just a pretty poor game plan
on offense against a team that can only really score
ten points in a game on offense is a bad one.
The Cowboys one being the clock management. They're going up
against maybe the most cohesive offense in the NFL, and
it shows maybe some of the concerns with the Packers
defensively for the fun and joy of all the creativity
(12:44):
on the back end and having microing those guys up
front of the creativity in the in the pressure game
when it's just one on one third down, who's got
the best players? I still don't know if they stack
up with that, And that's where I would get consumer. Okay,
if they have to go into the link in the
playoffs and it's third down and they've got aj Brown,
what are we actually doing?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Who do we put on Dallas?
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Gotta to figure that stuff out, So that'll be my
concient but I still think the underlying profile of what
they do explosive plays against good teams being able to
create pressure with full So that's like the Super Bowl profile.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah, I'm not too worried. I think they would have
been my Super Bowl pick. I had the Lions, and
I wasn't gonna just change it. Like I'm not. I'm
not worried about the Packers because of those two games.
But when I was thinking, like, what was the most
surprising thing that happened like that, that pretty much was it?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Right now?
Speaker 1 (13:33):
You said something interesting there though, that the Cowboys were
the most cohesive offense potentially in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Is that is that on your list?
Speaker 3 (13:39):
No? Can we talk about that too, Like my guy
Clayton Adams goes in, they ultimately have the best run
game in football. You go look at the Codinals run
games not looking so pretty.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So you say cohesive like you're talking about the marriage
of the passing game and the running game, because I've
talked a lot about how just watching Dak I don't
know if you like, I think.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
He's been the best quarterback in the league this year.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
If I had to choose one, it's tough to choose,
like to not choose Josh Allen. So whatever, you're just picking,
like two amazing quarterbacks. But that's I love watching the
style of that Dak plays like. But we haven't talked
a lot about the running game, Like what have you
seen in terms of the running game and how that
works with.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
The passing game?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yeah, it's they do everything and they were not a
very good gap oriented base run team basically ever since
Dax being that, it's always been zone and kicking and
going and stretching the field and then he would boot
out then and then when Dak's legs started to go
and he stopped using the legs, it was no longer
even effective. No one respected the boots out to the now,
(14:42):
they've got Clayton Adams, as we mentioned, who is the
go to guy for like you want to build a
power spread system at downhill running attack system. He's the
one guy in the league right now and has been
honestly for three full seasons. And you see the impact
on the Cardinals when he left. The thing I just
love about them is there's a rhythm to create off
the one you just feel in your bones when it's
like this thing rolling down a hill where it's like
(15:03):
they just feel like a freight train. The rhythm they
have in and out of the huddle, bouncing between the
wrong game to play action. How it all ties together
to Duck, you know, drop back game from an assented
to Duck seeing the field and spreading it around. They've
been able to marry up like him wanting to be
paid to Monning with him accepting like, well, there has
to be some movement emotion in this offense pre snap,
(15:26):
which he's just never really allowed since kellam Moole left.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I don't think people.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
And I would include myself in this, have really wrapped
their minds around the fact that they just put up
forty on the defense going into the week that I
would have said was the best defense in the league.
With Cavanti Turpin as their number two receiver, Gavante Williams
who's looked great but as their number one running back,
(15:51):
and massive injuries on the offensive line, like missing two
of their guys in the interior and benching they're left
tackle during that game. It's kind of a coaching masterpiece,
and I'm loving it because I was. I was kind
of high, not high, but I thought Brian Schottenheimer could
be a better head coach than he was a coordinator,
and the Adams higher and the fact that he's empowering
(16:13):
him that I think that was the worry in Dallas
was like are they going to let him.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Do this running game?
Speaker 1 (16:19):
And I guess the answer is yes, based on like
the training camp I saw. It was the biggest mismatch
in any training camp possible was the Cowboys offense versus
the Cowboys defense every day. I think it just gave
them so much confidence after that month that no one.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Could tell them anything were moving to go for the
Lions defense. Being this good this fests it asks me
a little bit shook because I thought they would be
really good by like week eighteen and around into foam
for the playoffs, and it surprises me that they've been
able to get up to speed this quickly.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
So what about them?
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Because there's not like a secondary pass rusher really other
than Aiden Hudgins, And so what are they doing that
makes it work?
Speaker 3 (16:58):
I mean, Sheffood, to his credit, has basically said, now,
I love when coaches do this, like they've been waiting
in the sidelines and the wings for like work on
their philosophy and tinkering away. Then they get put in
the big boy chair and it's like I'm gonna do
everything I think the old guy was doing wrong. I'm
going to throw everything Aaron Glenn did for the most
part and try and build my own style.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
And that's where I thought it would take.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Some time to be like this push pull tension between
we know what's successful, we've run it for years, and
then Shepper comes in and says, what we were doing
previously was pretty old fashioned, pretty outdated. You see it
now with the Jets, and it doesn't look so pretty
when you don't have Aiden Hutchinson up from We got
to be more of a pressure based team. We have
the blitz on earlier downs and he's brought them. If
you go and look at the best teams over the
(17:37):
past three seasons defensively, they all have kind of these
trigger points in terms of like early down blitz rates,
sim pressure rate, format pressure rate. They're above the threshold
for all of those best groups in the league to
get those pieces to fit into that right to wait,
they have obviously a crazy amount of talent. I just
thought that would take a lot of time before they
could figure it out. And even in Week one, it
(17:59):
was pure ego coaching from Sheppy's dropping Hutchinson on third
down and it's like, Okay, this guy's a little over skis,
it's a little bit too philosophy over the players. And
immediately it just course corrected and he's like, Okay, some
of the stuff I did was wrong.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Let's go play football.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
So you said, like a ridiculous amount of talent? What
what Brian Branch stands out obviously, and Hutchinson is just
like premier players, what are you?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
What are you seeing about? Like how they're using talent.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Kirby as well McNeil coming back the Lamar game plan,
when we do like game plans of the year, which
you probably wouldn't do, but I certainly would do set
at home.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
It is my goal if anyone from my heart is listening,
like I've been wanting to hire.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Ali Connelly for a while, and then we would do
game plans of the year.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
If you had told me off the week one when
I saw Kelvin Sheppard's game plan, which was all about
Kelvin Sheppard, which I accept and he's really articulate and
I think he's a fabulous coach, but it was all
about look at me.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
It was a look at meat plan.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
If you told me a few weeks later, he would
go against Top Monker and Lamar Jackson and undressed them.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
How would it be flawed?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Do you remember where you were when Calvin Sheppard was
traded for Jerry Hughes one for one and I don't remember, no,
and like it was kind of like we don't want
it was kind of just like a mistake trade, like whoops,
we blew it.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
And then Jerry.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Hughes went on to have like one of the most
underrated careers ever. And I bring this up roughly once
a month for some reason on this show.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Give me another surprise. I'm going back to you. The
Seahawks offense.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Okay, it was one of those ones where I could
understand the rationale of every individual move if you isolated
each move. And then when we got to the preseason,
I sat down, I looked at the death shot. I
was like, they looked like there was a quarterback and
the receiving Collux was I'm not sure the line is improved.
And then when you start seeing them play the games,
you see how every piece slots in together and everything
(19:57):
amplifies one another, particularly I think with the receip even
call Smith and Jig but go into a whole different level.
But them having kind of a security blanket middle of the field.
Guy in Cooper cub Holton being the deep threat. What
they're doing with the tight ends to kind of play
underneath than in Jig was just your three level. We
found a superstar type guy. And then Donald is just
playing unconscious conscious football.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Talk to me more about Donald, because I do get
the feeling. I think he's playing even better than he
was playing in Minnesota. He's doing the easy stuff, but
he's he's making a lot of like tough throws under pressure.
He does seem more calm when when he's under pressure
this year.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yeah, it does. Every single throw is effectively in rhythm.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
And then the one or two times a game that
he's not on rhythm, he's making Matthew Stafford throws and
there's not a single throw he doesn't believe like I
can rip it down the field. There's a there's a
great shot in the last game where it's double anything
off play action is out the hand immediately and there's
guy's at double coved and you can see him thinking,
(21:00):
if I just put it on someone's face, musk, I
can split the bull coverage and it's like okay, Buddy
sum Donald and he rips it and you can do it.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah. We were at dinner the other night with our
friend Henry Hodgson and a couple of the people from
the NFL office.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
They were like, what, what's the most surprising thing? Give
me the two minute recap of this season? So where
I couldn't think of anything. The only thing I could
think of was.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Like, I don't know, Like I don't know if two
are the good teams. Like there's like ten pretty good teams,
but I don't I don't think right now, I don't
know if there's this big separation. But in my head,
like the Seahawks are as good as any team in
the NFL right now. And then I saw this week
after that that they were number one in DVA at
(21:40):
least for now, and I was like, yeah, that kind
of checks out to me. They kind of do everything well. Yeah,
if I'm afraid that Sam d I'm gonna like forget
Nick Benito. I'm gonna be wearing my anti Sam Donald bias,
like in Santa Clara in February.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
At this rate, my only consume with them is some
of the Rung Games stuff. It is way more very
everything you would ever imagine with Clink Kuby, like the
first week was basically his dad's coal sheet plastered Uncle
the Seahawks, like he picked up the wrong copy for
the game day and I was like, uh oh. And
then I was like, okay, that is gonna run the
Kuback offense. It looked pretty good. Then everyone else in
the defensive side will say, let's go call Waite Phillips,
(22:15):
get his old plans, and we'll beat the sun, you know,
over the head that way. And all of a sudden,
now they've got this really varied rushing attack. It's not
all that effective. It does trigger some of the play
action stuff. I do have a fear that they'll just
revert into themselves and be like, the best thing we
can do is just give the ball to Kenneth Walker
and give him a chance to you know, plant and
cook and go, and just Donald is on such a
(22:35):
heater cannot sustain. But I do think they have the
best defense top the bomb in the NFL. Depth coaching talent.
I just think that will be the best group by
the end of the season. And if they don't need
Donald to play at this kind of level to go
and win multiple playoff games, right.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I think the game we're gonna call together on Talk Sport.
Everyone should check it out. It'll be me and Ali
and Will Gavin is a reminder how difficult it is
to build around defense in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
But the Seahawks are the perfect way to do it.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
They have a really efficient and good offense to support
that defense, like Darnold doesn't have to do everything, and
they have.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
An awesome special teams unit.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I don't know if that's going to continue all year,
but they've probably been the best special teams unit led
by Jay Harbaugh, which leads me to my last surprise.
This is more of a take than I'm just going
to throw by you and see what you think. Like,
is John Harbas still a good NFL head coach.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
The thing that I don't like about the national conversation
about John Habball is they just bundle him in as, Oh,
he's special teams guy CEO. Yeah, he's kind of fraudulent.
He sits in on every single defensive staff meeting. He
builds the game plan on defense. The defense is an abomination,
and it's not the first time it's fall off the cliff.
Last season, the communication system was an absolute mess. He
(23:48):
had to call DMPs and be like, can you figure
out how to get plays to communicate for us? Like
that's what they drafted him in to do, essentially, and
no one ever criticized him for it. And it's like, Boh,
he's not in charge of that, He's just the head coach.
Like no, he sits in every meeting his game plan
and it's falling apart two years in a row.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I think he does.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
I mean, first of all, the head coach ultimately deserves
responsibility for for everything. But yes, he's done the hiring.
He's he has a big hand in that. I think
he's an intimidating guy and people like that come across
him or are a little afraid of him in a
way that they're not of other NFL coaches. Was just
interesting because he's not like a like a burly, huge
(24:24):
form of player. But there's just it's always been on
my raidar. There's something drill, suge and vibe. There's something
under the surface there that they don't really have fighting
places to pivot now, even if they just moved on
from Zachor And I imagine we will get something where
an advisor comes in or we get like the long
athletic piece that is.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Quietly behind the scenes.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Zachol was removed from some responsibilities and Pegano's taking on
some more. I imagine that's where we're heading with the thing.
The talent has just gone now though, with all the
injuries and losing Matabuike is just brutal.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yeah, the game this week, they I think are missing
their five highest paid players.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I mean that's just like, what really can you do?
Speaker 1 (25:04):
They were they were on pay for the healthiest team
in the league last year, and now it's like the opposite.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
You can lose the talent and say, way, not as
talent as we should be. You can get lined up,
you can communicate, that's on the stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Okay, we're gonna do this game. We might have let's
let's talk. We only have a couple of minutes left.
But like I mentioned, these two defenses. I have now
drilled down a little bit watching the Browns my beloved
aiden Huntington from two lane looking good two side player. Like,
(25:38):
one thing I thought about this year is how because
you can see it on the Dallas defense and you
can see it on the Green Bay defense, that I
may be underrated. Was just I shouldn't have the multiplying
effect of a truly great one.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Great one and.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Watching Malik Collins play the best football of his life
and looking at this entire defensive line playing well around
Miles Garrett and this defense, like what what have you
seen out of the Browns defenses? Isaiah mcguireth too, I
think he kind of gets bundled in It is like, well,
Miles is great, so that helps him out. No, he
in his own right is a really effective good play.
They just have the great one and then they've got
three really good plays beside him, which is why they
(26:13):
just dominating everyone. And that's probably the most simplistic structurally
defensive the league in an era of everyone wants to
describe disguise and be creative and the coaches get all
applaudeds for that.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
It's just four guys up front mauling everyone over and
over again.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
And Alex Right is one of them. Like that watching.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
The film and you just love to see it because
this team is not great, but Miles Garrett is playing
with just an energy that is insane. It just feels
like like there's not a play. And this was against
the Lions, who have a good offensive line. There's there's
not a play that like he doesn't impact that Like
I could find maybe like four in an entire.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Game, which is which is just crazy.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
And the energy he has, like you can run away
from him, but he tracks it on the back side.
It's I'm very excited to just go watch him live,
even even if people like aren't thrilled with the lowest
over under in any NFL game this year for Vikings Browns, and.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
If he's not impacting the pocket on the play, he
impacts the play calling. They face the most screens of
any team of the last two seasons because people like,
let's just get the ball out as quick as possible,
lift the play another down, and not have him affect
things that way. It's just fun to see a defense
base a we declare, these four guys are coming, let's
see if you can deal with it, and all four
guys are really good. It's no longer just that Miles
(27:33):
is sensational. It's like they've got a lot of talent
there and they roll through. I mean, they've run about
seven deep at this point. Mason Graham's the first round pick,
and he's in the rotation more than he is like
the most impactful.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
One on one player, just so deep. I can't wait
to watch.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Him if we had if we had more time, I
would talk about how much Mason Graham was on the
ground in that Lions game.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
But I'm trying to be nice.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
The closer we get to this game, I think maybe
the Browns are actually gonna win, because how do you think, okay,
that line versus the Browns offensive The Vikings upfront versus
the Browns offensive line is such a mismatch, and Dylan
Gabriel's the quarterback, And then on the flip side, I
think it's even a bigger mess match with how banged
up the Vikings are, and it's going against Carson Wentz,
(28:19):
who's I think been okay actually the last couple of
weeks on the Carson Wentz scale. But he's gonna freak
out certainly a handful of snaps like which quarterback.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Do you think will could handle it better?
Speaker 3 (28:31):
That's a tricky one. It's just so unknown with Dylan Gabriel.
I actually think it will be good for Dylan Gabriel,
as still as this sounds full of the Browns, for
him to have a game where he looks really lost
and confused and is a bit in over his head.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I think that will actually work well. From long time.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
I'm reminded of when Jordan Love first came into a
game against the Chiefs. If you remember that one his
SPACs just blew him apaw. He did not know what
was happening in the NFL, and so Love went away
and said, I'm dedicating my life to becoming the best
guy pick up the blitz in pro football.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
And he actually did it when he came up to
face the Eagles. He torched them.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Yeah, but he had like a year to do that,
like Gabriel's is going to have to start.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
He did. But I think, you know this idea of
like saving a guy for the right defense, to right approach,
like go and see the most difficult thing, the most
complex thing, up front and learn how hard this is,
so when you face an easy one, it's going to
feel really easy.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
And then I think, just get.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Into big personnel and the same way the Steelers tried
to do and say you put your big bodies on
the field, we'll put ours on. He can move a
little bit in a way that Flacco could not. Wentz
want me is horrifying. He's maybe the worst guy to
throw out there if there's just a foreman and go
a rush because he just panics anyway.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
So if he's panicking and.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
There's seven guys back there that this could be two
four five turnover game.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I think it's going to be ugly fun.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
There's some games that are so ugly they become beautiful
and that's the game we are going to call on Sunday. Yes,
it'll be the Will Gavin of football games. Thank you
Ali again everyone check out the read optional. Was really
glad that we could squeeze in this extra show.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
It's been a great week and.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
A half over in Ireland and now the UK.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
We have one more show to go.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
We will be doing our Sunday night recap in the
Talk Sports studios.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I will be with Will and Allie.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
We will see you Sunday night.
Host
Gregg Rosenthal
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