Chiefs-Bucs MNF Recap, Saints Fire Dennis Allen

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Nick Shook to react to the Buccaneers and Chiefs facing off on Monday Night Football. Gregg and Nick talk about the inevitability of the Chiefs, followed by a discussion on what DeAndre Hopkins brings to the Chiefs (06:28), Todd Bowles' questionable decision making through out the game (13:03), and Patrick Mahomes' injury scare and play (21:07). After the break, Gregg and Nick get you caught up on news from around the NFL including the Raiders firing their OC Luke Getsy (24:31) and injury updates for Dak Prescott, CeeDee Lamb, Christian McCaffrey, and A.J. Brown (27:55). Finally, the show is wrapped up with Ryan and Adam from the Saints Block Party Podcast to react to the Saints firing HC Dennis Allen (44:34). 

Note: time codes approximate. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is third down and one at the two yard line,
a touchdown. Walks it off and off Kareem Hunt, Pike
side Corray, he is give it time touchdown Child City.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
It's a lock off touchdown by Kareem Hunt, and the
Kansas City Chiefs stay undefeated at eight and zero, the
only unbeaten team in the National Football League. Fourteen straight
wins for the Chiefs Kingdom.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
That was Mitch Holtis of w DAF at Chiefs are inevitable,
thirty to twenty four in overtime.

Speaker 4 (00:43):
Kareem Hunt, he's inevitable. Patrick Mahomes he's indestructible. He can't
get injured. And the Chiefs in overtime. You lose that toss,
you're gonna lose. Chiefs stay undefeated. I'm Greg Rosenthal. This
is NFL Daily and Nick Shook fresh off writing up
the what we learned on NFL dot Com.

Speaker 5 (01:06):
What did you learn?

Speaker 4 (01:07):
Nick?

Speaker 6 (01:08):
I learned what I already knew about the Chiefs offense,
which that's a slow, methodical, grinded out offense. It's gonna
papercut you to death. But what I really learned is
that occasionally they can impose their will on you up
front and just run it down your throats for touchdowns
in the biggest moments.

Speaker 7 (01:27):
We saw that tonight.

Speaker 6 (01:28):
As soon as they won the toss and overtime, you
had a feeling it was gonna look a lot like
that touchdown drive in the fourth quarter.

Speaker 7 (01:34):
That's exactly what it ended up looking like.

Speaker 4 (01:36):
Yes, and the overtime drive of the Super Bowl, and
the overtime drive that haunts our producer Eric's nightmares against
the Bills, and all the overtime drives as long as
they're on offense, Chiefs fans don't like to be reminded
of that twenty eighteen NFC Championship overtime. Sorry, I thought

(01:58):
the ball control was really interesting tonight. And yes, this
Chiefs team isn't as flashy, and we're gonna get to
some new things like DeAndre Hopkins was such a big deal.
But they had the ball for eighty three plays on
Monday night the Bucks fifty two. The Chiefs had twenty
eight first downs in this game. They dominated a time
in possession forty to twenty five. We've seen that a lot.

(02:18):
But what I think is different and interesting about this
team is a lot of times these comebacks Nick have
started by running the ball. They were down seventeen to
ten in the fourth quarter of this game. They've actually
come back at some point in the game in seven
of their eight wins, and a lot of times it's
the second quarter, it's the third quarter, and they actually

(02:39):
come back by running the ball. They didn't run the
ball that well in the first half of this game,
but they had that drive when they were down a
touchdown and they just got it going. And that interior
line is just so good. And on a night where
the Bucks pass rushers I thought did really well and
I think Todd Bowles had a pretty good game plan defensively,
it still did matter that.

Speaker 5 (03:00):
The Chiefs get it done.

Speaker 6 (03:02):
Yeah, it was interesting that Bulls approach shifted, and I
understand why, because with an offense like this, you can't
blitz them to death and force them into mistakes because
they're not trying to throw the football down the field.
You kind of have to sit back and trust your
base rushes, play coverage and really worry about stopping the run,
especially in the second half. So that was a bit
of a surprise. But what was more surprising is the
fact that the Chiefs were able to still make it

(03:24):
work with that happening, and you're right. The pass rushers
for the Buccaneers did a good job, especially in the
first half, and then you get to the second half.
You know, the Chiefs only put ten points on the board,
and they look like they have for most of the season.
They're unimpressive. That it's the reason that everybody gets on
me about putting Patrick Mahomes so high. Oh, he's got
more picks than touchdowns is what they said a couple
of weeks ago. It doesn't matter because he plays within

(03:45):
this offense at an expert level, and the Buccaneers just
got a first hand experience with why he's ranked that
high because he just doesn't so well he's almost impossible
to stop. Add in Kareem Hunt, who goes over one
hundred yards, which, by the way, it's great to see
Kareem Hunt thrive relatively with the Chiefs again in a
different fashion than he used to when he was there before.
But you add that in and something they're that much

(04:06):
harder to defend, and it just puts that much more
stress on the Todd Bowles defense, and that's how you
end up with a drive like they had in the
fourth quarter that goes fifteen plays seventy eight yards, takes
eight and a half minutes off the clock. I mean
it was a death march of sorts, like they just
play by play. I'm just watching them going, oh, they're
just getting what they want in none of it's big chunks.

(04:27):
It's Mahomes on a bad ankle throwing to Travis Kelcey
on third down to convert, which, by the way, twelve
for eighteen on third down. This is how you win
football games when you're not seeing explosive This is.

Speaker 4 (04:37):
How anyone else wins football games. Twelve out of eighteen
on third down.

Speaker 7 (04:40):
What's the difference.

Speaker 6 (04:41):
The difference Mahomes is the guy is operating this offense,
which is why he should be regarded so highly even
if the numbers aren't there.

Speaker 4 (04:47):
Well, I'm glad you mentioned that he did throw three
touchdown passes tonight. So now he's finally over the touchdown
interception threshold. He's now got eleven touchdown nine interceptions. That's
an overrated stat to evaluate quarterback. It's okay to have there,
but it's not It's not the one thing you need
to look at. Look, he went eleven for thirteen himself

(05:08):
on third downs with ten first downs, three touchdowns, you know,
the only third downs that they didn't get. And it's
interesting that overtime drive just felt so inevitable. These short
passes and then the run on third and short to
finish it. That was a five minute, fifty two second
ten play drive that was actually a drive that was

(05:29):
the fourth longest drive of the night by the Chiefs.
They had three other drives that were longer. An eight minute,
fifteen play touchdown drive that gave them the lead in
the fourth quarter, a six and a half minute twelve
play touchdown drive that tied the game, and then a
couple ten plus play drives in the first half, one

(05:49):
of which went for seventy yards and a touchdown and
took over six minutes.

Speaker 5 (05:52):
So this is who they are.

Speaker 4 (05:53):
And Troy Aikman said on the podcast, just like they're
an offense that they get into third and four, they
get into third and six and if they need they
get seven and literally, as he was saying it, they
hit a first down just too easy. And Kelsey's funny.
I mean, he he had fourteen catches, tying the career
high for only one hundred yards. He's averaging like seven

(06:14):
and a half eight eight yards per catch this season,
and normally you see that kind of stat in an
old tight end and you say he's washed. But that's
just what they need and what they're gonna need in
this offense because they don't have enough explosive plays, but
they do now have DeAndre Hopkins. And just tell me
kind of what you saw out of DeAndre Hopkins. He
goes eight for eighty six and two touchdowns, and this

(06:37):
offense just feels different with him in it.

Speaker 6 (06:39):
Yeah, it does. What I saw wasn't much different from
what I've seen from him before. It's the way they
used him that was different. They were moving him around,
they were using him within the comp like the restrictions
of sorts or just the bounds of their offense. It
wasn't Hopkins going deep save for that thirty five yard
catch wud set up that touchdown. That was a masterful catch.
I mean, that's DeAndre Hopkins as we've always known him
to be, catching it in traffic two guys to set

(07:01):
up a score. But otherwise it's short passes and he's there,
he's making the catch. He wins a slant on the
goal line. It's a five yard touchdown catch that the
defender had no chance of stopping because imagine I try
to put myself in the defender's shoes in that situation.
You're one on one on the goal line with DeAndre Hopkins.
You know that for the majority of his career he's
running that fade to the back corner of the end zone.
But against these Chiefs, it's a different story. So you know,

(07:21):
the Aikman's like, you got to drive down and prevent
that slant? Well, yeah, what am I going to cheat inside?
And I'm gonna give up the fade that I've seen
him catch a million times in his career. No, I'm
going to try to react and I'm a step slow
because it's DeAndre Hopkins. So what In his first game
with them, it was quiet two for twenty nine. They
still win the game, obviously, but this was like a
bit of a coming out party within the bounds of

(07:42):
this offense in that he can still find a way
to make an impact because he's still such a good
receiver and they actually know how to use him, and
it gives Patrick Mahomes an option outside of the tight
end group because since they've suffered those losses at receiver,
they just haven't gotten much production out of receiver.

Speaker 7 (07:57):
It's just been all tight end short passes.

Speaker 6 (07:59):
And now he has another guy to go to that
he can lean on consistently that will really not elevate
this offense in terms of explosiveness, but elevate them in
terms of options. Now he has other places to look.

Speaker 4 (08:10):
He was perfect for tonight. He beat He's his own
beater and that's what they need. And on one hand,
it's like, wow, we're adding another slow, big receiver to
the Chiefs offense. But he's way better than any of
the other options, like a Juju smith Suster whenever he
gets healthy. And you know, they had great chemistry in
terms of knowing what the other was going to do

(08:31):
on that play that you mentioned, and that play where
Mahomes steps into in a completely crowded pocket and throws
it despite getting hit into a window that just you
could tell the interview at halftime, Todd Bowles was so
frustrated that play even happened. How many times does that
happen in the Mahomes era where the coach is just like,
I can't believe that habit.

Speaker 5 (08:51):
All we got to do is knock down that ball.

Speaker 4 (08:53):
But it's Mahomes and for a second I was like, Yes,
this is the Mahomes we need to see more of,
like the the making actual magic Mahomes, like exciting Mahomes.
And he tried to uncork a deep pass later in
the game. I forget was that one to Watson and
I was like, Oh, the old Mahomes is back.

Speaker 5 (09:10):
But he was overthrown by four or five yards.

Speaker 4 (09:13):
But Hopkins gives a guy they can trust at a
moment where they can't trust Xavier Worthy. If you watch
that Raiders tape last week, he's just making mental error
after mental error every week. And then he starts this
game by basically giving up seven points by not knowing
where he is on the field in a wide open
touchdown steps out of bounds. Then he gets the ball
one other time, and instead of continuing forward on what

(09:33):
might have been a doomed trick play, he still stopped
his feet and tried to change directions instead of using
the speed and he might have been able to outrun
the defender. He's just not making good decisions. Those end
up being the only two targets he has in the game.
So Hopkins comes in and he gives them what they need.
They've been a bad red zone team all year, Nick,
They're twenty fifth in red zone efficiency coming into tonight.

(09:54):
Tonight four for four, Hopkins has two of them. Let's
actually listen to Hopkins is second touchdown.

Speaker 8 (10:01):
Mahomes calls an audible and backs up behind Kreg Humphrey.
Here comes the blitz, quick passes touch this side touchdown,
towns on City doorn, Ryan Hopkins on the quick cleft
side slam the second time De hop has tasted the
sweet nectar.

Speaker 9 (10:19):
What the Chase Kingdom in Zone in the Chase League
twenty three seventeen.

Speaker 4 (10:24):
The sweet nector of the episode. We're finally here, We're.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
Back, you know.

Speaker 6 (10:29):
And the defender's name is Josh Hazen there and you
can see him little stutter off the line breaks inside,
makes the catch. He fits in this offense so well
because they are so methodical. What that I liken them too,
is a bullet constrictor just squeezes its adversary to death.
That's what they do. And I think that he works perfectly.
Like you said, zone beater, find the soft spots in coverage.

(10:49):
That's what the tight ends have been doing. Now you
have another guy with a ton of experience and trusty
hands to be able to get the job done working
with you know, arguably the best quarterback on the planet.
I just can't see a way which you stop them.
If you know that the deep ball is not there
and you're going to try to play defense short, it's
still gonna be a challenge.

Speaker 4 (11:07):
What a trade and watching the DeAndre Hopkins in a
good interview after the game with Laura Ruttledge of ESPN,
I mean, he was so emotional, like we think, oh,
this is another just win for the Chiefs. But he's
been in Siberia for a while now. I mean that
those Texans teams he was on early, they were good teams.

(11:28):
He was in many meaningful games. He made the playoffs
a number of times. Was only on two teams that
actually won a playoff game, but Arizona that was a
pretty dark run. He gets one playoff game there that
the Titans, you know, as irrelevant as it gets, and
he he was, you know, almost tearing up, saying words
can't describe you know what this means to be I

(11:49):
manifested it, you know, with my mom, we talked about
this all the time, and I'm just going to stay
present in this moment, and then right after that, Travis
Kelcey's on with with Scott Van Pelt and he just says, like,
what a difference having a guy like Hopkins adds to
that locker room, especially some of the older guys like
Kelsey or even a Mahomes like that, he has so
much confidence and then seeing it's like those championship teams

(12:13):
that add a little extra player to the mix. I
had a not really well thought out tweet Nick that
the Chiefs are doing the Patriots dynasty in reverse and
they've now reached the two thousand and three Patriots team,
and DeAndre Hopkins, in my mind, in this situation, is
Corey Dillon, and they're just this team that's kind of
like slugging you out. And it's a really good defense,

(12:35):
but you know, the offense, it's getting better, but it's opportunistic.

Speaker 5 (12:38):
I don't know if this even makes sense.

Speaker 4 (12:40):
They're no longer like the two thousand, you know, seven
or twenty fourteen pages, they're now in two thousand and three.

Speaker 5 (12:46):
But however, you're gonna win.

Speaker 4 (12:47):
I really think Hopkins has some intangible qualities here that
really adds a lot to this season. Should we talk
about Todd Bowles. Were you annoyed by Todd Bowles not
going for two? They scored the game time touchdown, And yes, Bucks,
we're going to fans, the ones that are out there
like we're gonna give you some flowers. They're showing up
every every week just about this season. Given great effort,

(13:09):
they could have won this game. They get the touchdown
with thirty seconds left after a great drive by Baker.
Did you think he should have gone for two? Did
he want him to go for two?

Speaker 7 (13:19):
Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 6 (13:20):
And this is the second time that we've spent a
Monday night talking about a Todd Bowles decision at the
end of the game that hurt their team in one
way or another. Last time it was because Chris Gobin
got hurt at the end of the game they weren't
gonna win. This time, it's conservative approach, just to get
to overtime against a quarterback and a team that you
know and you just witnessed by the way is going
to methodically drive down the field and squeeze the life

(13:43):
out of you if they win the coin toss, So
you essentially leave it up to a coin toss. Not
a good call. You have momentum in your favor, you're
in Arrowhead, you're on primetime. It's wet, go for the win, Todd,
And I think that I hate to say this because
I think that the Buccaneers obviously have a good chance
to to battles for this division title with the Falcons.
But as it stands right now, when I think about

(14:04):
the Buccaneer season in full, with half of the season
to go, I think about that moment against the Ravens
where they lost their top two receivers, and I think
about tonight as the two big flash points in this
season where you're going to look back and say that
defined our years. It was the decisions made by the
coach in those moments that maybe will define our year.
And this one, you know, you have to give him
a pat on the back because I thought Liam Cohen

(14:26):
did a fantastic job as an offensive coordinator of adjusting
this offense knowing he doesn't have the verticality with those
receivers anymore, knowing Kaydotten is your best pass catching option,
and you have this three headed attack that combines for
less than one hundred yards. They each go for like
twenty ish a piece. None of them have a really
good average. One of them is strilling Shepherd two for
twenty one, like they're getting creative to stay alive in

(14:46):
the run game. But they adjusted their offense well enough
to still find success on a wet night on the
road against the Chiefs defense that has been known to
carry them to Super Bowl victories in the past. They
made it a competitive game because of Liam Cohen and
his you know, understanding of Baker mayfield strengths and how
they can still move the football. So you feel good
about that, but at the end of the day, you
still lose a game that you could have won against

(15:08):
the defending champs, against the team that's undefeated, and now
you're four and five and you're just like, man, can
we get out of our own way?

Speaker 5 (15:14):
Right?

Speaker 4 (15:15):
And how about the Thursday night game against the Falcons.
You know, it wasn't necessarily coaching decisions other than just
Kirk Cousins eating up their blitz all night. But those
these are three massive games in primetime where you really
have a chance and the margins are so slim, and
Todd Bowles is not winning on those margins, and the

(15:35):
way he answers the questions after the game annoys me
almost more than the decision itself.

Speaker 5 (15:40):
Let's listen, we.

Speaker 7 (15:41):
Want to get it to overtime. With the white conditions
on the field, we felt like we had to go
on overtime instead of go for two. So we had
our shots. You know, we lost the game the day
advice you have to go for two, what was no?
We went for one. We took our shots, We had
our chances all game. We just lost the game. It
didn't come down today. It kind of did. It kind
of did, like I kind of.

Speaker 6 (16:01):
It never comes down to one play, but you had
the chance to win the game right there.

Speaker 4 (16:06):
Okay, So that whole sequence was both impressive and frustrating.
First of all, half that drive was just Baker Mayfield
throwing out routes to Sterling Shepard. Shepherd made a couple
of great catches. Mayfield's timing was really good all night.
I've been critical at times of Baker this year. I
thought Liam Cohen, as you said, called a really good game.

(16:28):
I thought he out coached Spagnolo. Yeah, it's crazy because
the Bucks got way more quarterback hits. They sacked Mahomes
four times without blitzing, and the Chiefs blitz quite a
bit more. Didn't get a lot of pressure on Baker
and there were open receivers and they moved the ball
pretty well. Now, it wasn't evenly played game, like I said,

(16:49):
like the Bucks defense couldn't really get off the field either.
They were just dying a slower death. But they did
a really good job of coaching. And I think Bowles
just hasn't realized this is an offensive team.

Speaker 5 (17:01):
Go look at the DVA.

Speaker 4 (17:03):
Sign up for the FDN subscription over there at FTN Fantasy.
The DVA tells you they're the twenty seven defense in
the league and they're the number eight offense in the league.
And oh yeah, well they don't have Chris Godwin and
Mike Evans.

Speaker 5 (17:18):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
They look pretty good the last two weeks. They just
played quite well against the top five defense. This is
not just about those receivers now. They'll be much better
when Mike Evans returns. Unfortunately, they're not going to get
Godwin back. But Kate Otten's making great catches in the
offensive line. At this point, There's no way I could
come up with five offensive lines that are better right
now than the Bucks. They weren't perfect tonight, but they

(17:39):
play well together. They have enough high draft picks. Everyone's
playing well, and so embrace being an offensive team. There
were three spots in this game where he didn't go
for a fourth down conversion or could have been more aggressive.
Two fourth down conversions in the two point so right
before halftime, there's a fourth in four around midfield.

Speaker 5 (18:01):
It's thirty seconds left.

Speaker 4 (18:02):
You're in that in between where you don't want to
give the Chiefs a chance, but maybe have a little
confidence because you're not gonna win just punting the ball away.
And they punt the ball away second half, they they
don't go for it on fourth and two.

Speaker 5 (18:15):
They're at their own thirty eight.

Speaker 4 (18:16):
I know that's hard for Todd Bowles to like wrap
his mind around in the year twenty twenty four. But
they punt it away and the Chiefs are back on
that thirty eight yard line on their way to scoring
a touchdown, you know, eight or nine plays later.

Speaker 5 (18:29):
It takes them a while, but they get there. They
score a touch on.

Speaker 4 (18:32):
You're probably not gonna stop him anyways, go get the
two yards.

Speaker 5 (18:35):
I promise you can do it.

Speaker 4 (18:36):
And then at the end of the game I understood
them not going for two a little bit more, only
because Todd Bowles had already botched the situation by taking
a time out when they got to the one yard
line on first and goal, and Troy Aikman was all
over this. You gotta let the clock run there. You
just gave them Homes a whole extra possession. If the
clock is running there and they end up running that

(18:57):
play on second down, let's say with like ten seconds left,
then I'd feel more comfortable going for two. You know
that the Chiefs probably aren't gonna score anyways, it's even
more worth the risk. One thing that you worry about
going for two is that you can get the two
and still lose the game with thirty seconds left, So
you're almost in between a rock and in a hard
place either way. Like, I just don't think it's playing

(19:19):
to your strengths, and so it's just very frustrating. And
everyone apparently who knows the Bucks better knew he was
never going to go for two there. Ryan Fitzpatrick tweeted
it out like with two minutes before they even got
to that point, there was like, there's no way Todd
Bowles is going for two.

Speaker 6 (19:33):
Yeah, And that's my concern with them going forward to
is that this is a defensive minded coach for the
defense that doesn't stack up. So for him to force
himself out of his traditional ways, which is all right,
let's tie the game and lean on the defense. You
can't do that when your strength is your offense, like
you just said, and not going for two there. I
don't care if there was thirty seconds left, there was
five seconds left, because this Chief's offense, while it's Patrick

(19:54):
Mahome still back there, have not shown the explosive verticality
of previous years. And yes they had three timeouts, but
it was a wet night and essentially what you end
up doing is forcing them into a position where they
have to try to get within Harrison Bucker's range on
a wet night, like the field goal is not guaranteed,
no matter how good of a kicker he is, so
take the chance, go for the win instead of leaving

(20:16):
it up to a coin flip flipping in overtime, which
obviously they ultimately lost.

Speaker 4 (20:20):
The two worst drives of the night by the Chiefs
were the last two in regulation, where they get Breing
out twice, once to give the Bucks a ball back,
and once again Baker played well, got that excellent touchdown
drive and then they get it back with twenty seven
seconds left. And man, first of all, the Bucks did
the thing where they just kicked it and gave them

(20:40):
ball at the thirty. I'm annoyed by that each and
every week. But Mahomes almost threw the ball away there
a couple times. One time into one. Will Winfield almost
made a great play on the ball, could have intercepted it,
and the Chiefs undefeated season would be over. But it's
not over, partly because Patrick Mahomes is doing crazy things
like creating space as he does, drawing defenders up to

(21:04):
come after him in the red zone, and then throwing
a touchdown to some i JP run on a play
that he got injured. Let's listen to the call and
then we're gonna listen to Patrick Mahomes talking about the injury.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Right after that, Hopkins goes your motion left or right,
tight wing right side Mahomes on.

Speaker 5 (21:24):
Third down and goal to go.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Now we'll scramb up on to the right side.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
Now a Flipford light, Bennett's cart touchdown.

Speaker 9 (21:31):
Kansas City and Mahomes is down. Mahomes is down on
all fours as he flipped the ball for to samajp
Ryn for a touchdown Kansas City, but at what price.

Speaker 10 (21:45):
I was obviously running for the goal on was about
kind of committed to running the football and at the
last second saw samaj and so kind of awkwardly rolled
ankle a little bit. Definitely scary. I think it hurt
more just because its the same ankle I roll last
week me a little bit. But once I kind of
took my breath and kind of calmed down a little bit,

(22:05):
end up being not too bad and we're able to
go in there, kind of get the respat and go
back on the football film.

Speaker 5 (22:10):
Shout out to Eric H.

Speaker 4 (22:13):
Roberts buying the glass having a great week after this
Dodgers championship. I mean that we didn't plan that ahead,
that you're going to do those two in a row.
He gets the injury talk during the show that that
was like that was like him being Mahomes flipping the
ball at the last second to Sam a JP Ryan.

Speaker 5 (22:28):
So thank you for that, Eric, good.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
Job, And yeah, I guess Mahomes he's just he's indestructible.

Speaker 6 (22:33):
Nick, Yeah, you know, it's it just takes me back
to the Super Bowl a couple years ago when he's
got this bad ankle. Everybody's worried about his ankle, and
then all of a sudden, he takes off for a
long run. You know that how we know how that
game ends, you know, the holding call in the field goal
and everything else. It's just like, this guy can be hobbled,
and he can have foot issues going into games. He
can have ankle in issues going into games. And that's

(22:53):
you know, you roll the inside of the ankle. It
kind of freaks you out because it's an unnatural movement.
And yet he just bounces right back and lead. There
was a sequence in the next drive where he scrambles
forward and I'm like, oh God, he's gonna run on
that ankle, and then he immediately finds Travis Kelcey for
a first down. And I'm just like, man, this guy.
Whether he's an indestructible or superhuman, I don't know, but

(23:13):
I would hate to be coaching defense against him.

Speaker 4 (23:16):
Yeah, And he's playing better, and it's okay to say
that Patrick Mahomes can play better. These guys aren't just robots.
Hall of famers, the best of all time. Tom Brady
has good games, bad games. There's ups and downs within
all of his seasons and throughout his career. The last
two weeks leading into this game I thought were probably
the best two games of his season, maybe Week one

(23:37):
against the Ravens, and then this was another excellent game
by him too. So I think Mahomes was playing at
a lower level even if he shouldn't have been. I'm
not saying he should have been ranked that low on
QB Index, but I do think he's playing better now
and that's great news for Chiefs fans, as if they
need more. All right, let's take a quick break. We're
gonna do some news. Oh yeah, Denis Salad got fired today.

(23:59):
Forgot to mention that we're going to talk to the
Saints block party guys about the Dennis Allen firing later
in the show. But we got a lot of news
and our players of the week to get to before that.
Back in a second, back on NFL Daily. And yeah,

(24:30):
the Saints changing head coaches in the middle of the
season for the first time since Joevitt was the interim
head coach. That was the biggest news item on Monday,
but it wasn't the only coaching change. We'll just put
a pin in the Saints for a minute. We'll get
to them at the end of the show. But for now,
let's do some news, all right, So right after we

(24:57):
stopped taping on Sunday night, he made some coaching changes.

Speaker 5 (25:01):
This feels so long ago at this point too.

Speaker 4 (25:03):
It's funny these items, Nick that if this happened in
the offseason, it would we'd get three days out of this.

Speaker 5 (25:08):
It would be the biggest thing to happen all week.

Speaker 4 (25:10):
And now it's like, oh, yeah, the Raiders fired their
offensive coordinator after half a season, like a first year guy.
They also fired their offensive line coach and another assistant,
Luke Getzi, is out with the Raiders. They have not
announced who their new offensive coordinator is. They're in a
bye week right now. Scott Turner, the former Panthers and

(25:33):
Washington coordinator and assistant, is on staff there and is
believed to be a strong candidate. And I've always thought
is maybe better than the consensus opinion of him, which
would mean that he's okay, because I think a lot
of people haven't been a huge fan of him.

Speaker 5 (25:49):
He would make sense to me.

Speaker 4 (25:50):
But man, I thought, this is a bad sign for
Antonio Pierce and his tenure that he's already having to
make changes, Whether these are the changes he wanted to
or whether they're you know, from above, they're making him
make the changes and get rid of Getsie this early.

Speaker 6 (26:06):
Yeah, I mean, in your first year, you're already firing
your Coordinator's not good. But then again, visually, the Raiders
haven't been a good football team. And Antonio Pierce we
talked about on the show last night, he's grasped at
straws at this point.

Speaker 7 (26:16):
A quarterback.

Speaker 6 (26:17):
He's bench garter Minshew multiple times, he lost an O'Connell
to injury.

Speaker 7 (26:20):
He puts Desen Ritterer in there. It doesn't get any better.

Speaker 6 (26:22):
So the next thing you do down the list is
all right, well, let's fire our offensive coordinator. It did
make me think once the news came down, is Luke
Getzi gonna get another OC job in the NFL because
now he's lost two within this calendar year.

Speaker 7 (26:33):
I don't think so.

Speaker 6 (26:34):
I don't think the results are there, but you got
to do something when you ranked twenty ninth and total
offense thirty second, and rushing and nineteenth and passing. Your
best stat is passing, and you've changed quarterbacks like four times.
So things are not good for the Raiders. They're headed
toward a dark place right now.

Speaker 4 (26:47):
Yeah, one of the worst rushing games of the last
twenty years.

Speaker 5 (26:51):
I think that's the main reason.

Speaker 4 (26:53):
Why they were so pass heavy on Sunday against the Bengals,
although they kind of moved the ball and were relative
effective for a decent part of the game.

Speaker 5 (27:01):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (27:02):
I don't know what anyone in Las Vegas was expecting.
They have underperformed, But considering they don't have Davante Adams
and they've had some injuries, like, I don't think they're
underperforming by that much. This this offense was was never
gonna be good. And yet it makes you worried about
Antonio Pierce this year because that could be something where

(27:23):
ownership is already getting involved and frustrated and then the
change happens right off the bat.

Speaker 5 (27:29):
So, yeah, a lot of.

Speaker 4 (27:30):
The kind of the I don't know. The national teams
are struggling right now. The Raiders are struggling, The Giants
certainly are struggling. The Cowboys season feels feels over. Dak
Prescott is gonna miss multiple weeks. According to our insider
Ian Rappaport, injured reserve is possible because of his hamstring injury.

(27:54):
Ceedee Lamb has a springed ac joint. He has a
chance to play this week. He's weak to week, which
again Michael Parsons is as well. But yeah, Gooper Rush
starting against the Eagles this week. It was already over,
but this is like a next level of over where
they're thinking, Wow, I wonder how high our draft pick is.

Speaker 6 (28:13):
Going to be.

Speaker 7 (28:14):
Yeah, rivalry or not. That's gonna be a ugly game
for the Cowboys.

Speaker 6 (28:17):
And this is a team that's just been crushed by
injuries on both sides of the ball. But they also
were pretty talent port receiver to begin with. And when
you lean that heavily on ceed Lamb and then you
lose him, and Dak Prescott actually had a decent game
before he exited with an injury. It just kind of
it just captures where they are as a team this year,
which is just low ceiling, not gonna be that good.
I don't care how good of a coaching job Mike

(28:38):
McCarthy might even do. They just don't have the tools necessary,
and now you lose your quarterback. It's not gonna get
any better anytime soon.

Speaker 4 (28:44):
No, Vac Martin isn't playing that well at guard like
the offensive line in that game, even against the Falcons.

Speaker 5 (28:53):
It's crazy.

Speaker 4 (28:54):
And you know, for once, I actually thought there's actually
some open receivers there there for Dak We were playing
the Falcons, so I guess that happens. But man, that
it is brutal because they're in a lot of TV
spots that we need to take them out of because
I do not need to watch this Cowboys.

Speaker 7 (29:09):
Team in flex going. Let's start flexing please.

Speaker 5 (29:13):
Uh More on that in a minute. There were there
was one trade.

Speaker 4 (29:16):
At least we're going to do the trade deadline spectacular
on Tuesday, but there was a trade that Broncos traded
Baron Browning to the Cardinals for a sixth round pick.
They also signed another pass rusher. The Broncos did Jonathan
Cooper to a long term extension four years, sixty million,
so that that room was really crowded for the Broncos.
Baron Browning is going to be a free agent in

(29:38):
the offseason. It's almost like they kind of are choosing,
We've got like four guys here. Browning maybe doesn't fit
our scheme. Cardinals send them a late pick. They could
certainly use some pass rush help and Browning's a talented
player who's been up and down, I would say, in
his career, but he jumps off the tape when he's good.

Speaker 7 (29:57):
Yeah, he was a highlight a couple of years ago.

Speaker 6 (29:58):
But I think that illustrates the the differences in regime
changes when you lose the coach that maybe elevated you previously,
and suddenly a new regimes in there, and you're not
that guy anymore. You're not their guy anymore, and they
got to make choices like that. All that tends to happen.
You ship him out for a Day three pick that
doesn't really amount to much, at least on the surface,
and decide to go with the guy you prefer, which
that's business in the NFL, playing simple.

Speaker 4 (30:20):
I also like it's interesting because it kind of shows
where the Broncos are, not that Browning wasn't that important
of a player for them. He's coming off an injury,
but just they're sort of in between where they're willing
to probably be buyers and sellers, like if something comes along,
they're just fine tuning their team third year. If Sean
Payton is kind of their go year, that'll be next season.

(30:41):
And I like that the Cardinals are in a place
where it's like, yeah, we need bodies, we need a chance.
We're trying to make this happen. There is a playoff
spot available for us in this NFC West. They got
a chance to do it, so they're trying to improve
their team. We'll see if they'll do it anymore. On Tuesday,
another NFC West team, the forty nine, opened up Christian

(31:01):
McCaffrey's practice window. I think we're getting Christian McCaffrey back
this week, at least according to John Lynch.

Speaker 6 (31:06):
Their GM long overdue. The forty nine Ers could use
that jolt offensively. I mean, look, this guy's in the
Cover Madden. It's one of the best players in the NFL.
I'm very much looking forward to seeing him coming back
and adding that weapon to an offense that could definitely
use him.

Speaker 5 (31:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (31:22):
Cover of Madden. Though, you know it's at a check.

Speaker 7 (31:25):
No, the curse is overblown. It's overblown. It's Peyton hell As,
that was a fan vote.

Speaker 4 (31:31):
We were in in a book off at the mall
on Saturday and my son was looking for, you know,
old video games to buy.

Speaker 5 (31:39):
We got an MLB.

Speaker 4 (31:40):
The show actually like a twenty twenty I was just like,
I got I'll get you that for some you know,
like use video games or there's seven bucks or whatever.
It's like, sure, let's get it. Anyways, I saw the
Madden They have old ass Maddens there. They had a
Madden eight with Vince Young on the cover, and I
was like, the kids don't know, and it's not a college,
it's not like coming out of college.

Speaker 5 (32:00):
Kids don't know.

Speaker 4 (32:01):
Rookie Vince Young was a good time, and like, I
totally get why he was on that cover. He was
a great time for a minute and that like people
think of him as a bust or whatever, he had
a lot of good moments in the NFL that a
lot of quote unquote busts never have. So I will
always defend rookie second year Vince Ye.

Speaker 7 (32:18):
I agree.

Speaker 6 (32:18):
Could you tell me who was on the cover of
the year before? I know you can't, but I'm going
to tell you, well.

Speaker 4 (32:23):
There were a couple wacky ones there. I'm trying to remember.

Speaker 6 (32:26):
Tell me the whacky ones came later Madden O seven.
Sean Alexander was on the cover.

Speaker 5 (32:31):
Okay, now that makes sense. He got the MVP.

Speaker 4 (32:35):
One of the more underwhelming MVPs of all time. Don't
don't come at me, Seahawks fans. Aj Brown is not
expected to miss significant time with the knee injury that
he had, according to Jeff McClain of the Philly Inquirer,
So maybe he has a chance to play this week,
although with the way this Cowboys team looks, maybe don't
rush him back if you don't need to couple other
just small injury items. The Bills sent Ken Coleman to

(32:59):
an MRI for risk injury. That that sounds a little
dicey and maybe getting a second opinion. So I don't
like that Duan Smooth, who's played some good snaps for
them as a rotational defensive lineman's going to injured reserve.
The Titans lost Quandary Digs for the season to a
Liz Frank injury. They are also hopeful that this is
the week for Will Levis to return. And then finally

(33:20):
we got some flex news. Look, I think every time
we do a flex you should flex. I should have
showed you. I should have told you this ahead of time,
because you know you got the.

Speaker 7 (33:30):
Mark under here. I mean I could take it off
if you want.

Speaker 4 (33:32):
I want to know, please, I mean we do use
you for you know, your massive sex appeal shook. But
I don't want to go I don't want to go
that far. They flex the Jets out of primetime. That's
fun because I'm thinking back to before the season, the
NFL said the Jets owe us some primetime games, and
I was thinking during this last one, I was like, Okay,

(33:52):
they vowed us enough, and they took the Jets out
of primetime in a couple of weeks. I think it
was what a Jets man. Now, I'm forgetting it was
a Jets Colts game in primetime. Yeah, you don't need
the Colts again. And they're putting Bengals Chargers. Now, the
Bengals could very easily be four and six going into
that game if they don't win this Thursday night against

(34:13):
the Ravens. But who cares. The Bengals are still going
to be in the mix at four and six. Bengals
Chargers Herbert Burrow.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
That's fun.

Speaker 7 (34:20):
Yeah, that's fun.

Speaker 6 (34:21):
A matchup of two of the brightest young talents a quarterback.
Although they've been in the league long enough tim that
I don't know if I can necessarily say they're quite
as young as they were before they feel fairly established.
Herbert's on a heater, which we discussed in yesterday's show,
and Burrow has been good all year, so that attracts
more eyeballs I think than another week of Aaron Rodgers.
And you know the saga that is the Jets against

(34:42):
the Colts team that really underwhelmed in primetime on Sunday.

Speaker 4 (34:45):
Night, right, and it'd be Rogers versus Flacco. I mean,
the Colts are I'm sure a big part of this too,
Like after seeing what they did on Sunday Night Football NBC,
it was like, no, thanks, don't want to do that again.
We don't want the Flacco Rogers like you know Ravens
Packers rematch from twenty fourteen, if that ever happened.

Speaker 5 (35:05):
I have no idea if that ever happened, but you know.

Speaker 4 (35:07):
Those two guys would be slinging it around with strong arms.
You know what time of the show it is, Nick.

Speaker 7 (35:11):
It's a great time. It's a great time.

Speaker 4 (35:14):
It's time for the Captain's Corner, presented by Captain Morgan.
As always, I'm letting you start first.

Speaker 6 (35:19):
All right, Well, we're gonna go with what might seem
like a bit of a layup pick, and it's gonna
be none other than Joey Burr. Joe Burrow for his
five touchdown performance, right, that's what is deserving of Captain's corner.
But that's not why I'm picking him. I'm picking him
because Joe Burrow threw his fifth touchdown pass of a
romp over the Raiders, and you could tell that he

(35:41):
was not at all satisfied with where the Bengals are
or his performance in the day, because he knows it's
only one win and because of the hole they dug
themselves in early, they have a long way to go.
Let's listen to his postgame speech to his teammates.

Speaker 5 (35:54):
We're traveling on Wednesday, today's Sunday. Get your bodies right,
get your minds right. It's a big one on Thursday.

Speaker 3 (36:02):
You know, he's still thinking about that play that he
and Chase didn't connect on, because he's a perfectionist.

Speaker 7 (36:07):
Even in a game that's thirty eight seventeen.

Speaker 11 (36:09):
The position they put themselves in, the mentality from now
on has to be after today's game, nine down, one
to go.

Speaker 6 (36:15):
The expression in that clip if you're watching on YouTube,
which if you're listening on podcasts, he is as stoic
as can be. He just threw his fifth touchdown pass.
He's had a great day. Not excited at all. That
expression says it all. Look, we were in a bad
spot early. It's been a very frustrating first quarter to
half of the season, and we're finally starting to hit
our stride. But guys, we cannot enjoy this with victory

(36:36):
cigars because we have so much further to go. If
you want to actually be in this race. That is
the leadership that I expect from a selection for Captain's corner,
and that's why I'm picking Joe Burrow right there. It's
funny because Greg Get reminded me I went Saturday night.
I went and hung out with my niece and nephew.
I played Nintendo with the Switch with my nephew and
I'm killing him in Mario Kart, and after like three races,

(36:56):
he just I look over at him and he's just stonefaced,
and I'm like, hey, what's wrong. He's four and He's like,
I don't want to play this anymore. That's what Joe
Burrow looked like. It struck me in that moment. So
good on Joe for leading by example.

Speaker 5 (37:08):
Great choice.

Speaker 4 (37:09):
I love the reasoning too, And yeah, that reminds me.
I didn't even mention Jack Jones, with one of my
favorite defensive players of the year, on a pick six
on Burrow earlier in the fourth quarter. So maybe he
was salty about that they had a three and out
earlier and he knows that they can't be making those
mistakes against the Ravens that they were making in the
fourth quarter, even if it felt meaningless. And that's why

(37:31):
Joe Burrow is is who Joe Burrow is. And he
also might have been annoyed because his rookie receiver let
the team down. I meant to mention this during the
recap show, and I think it's worth mentioning here because
seeing him on the bench reminded me of a clip
that was going around social media. At some point in
the game. He said something to Jermaine Burton, who's their

(37:53):
rookie third round pick, and he looked very serious saying it,
and Jermaine Burton looks serious listening to it. And then
Jermain Burton got up off the bench, and the speculation
was that Joe Burrow was like, you haven't earned sitting down.
You know, he's in street clothes, you have no right
to be sitting down during this game. Who knows if

(38:14):
that's exactly that it's actually what he said, But the
reporting in Cincinnati from Paul daaner of the Athletic in a
few places was they talked all week that they were
making Burton a big part of the game plan, the
whole team, the players. He's really matured all this stuff,
and they wanted him to kind of step into a
starting role because Yoshavas has been a little quiet as

(38:36):
the second or third receiver whatever he's going to be.
Burton's talent has been playing better. And he literally didn't
show up on Saturday for walkthrough, which is crazy, and
that always makes you a little worried. Whether there's more
to the story, We don't know. I don't want to
speculate on that, but whatever it was, he did not
show up to the walkthrough, and the way his coach

(38:58):
and his teammates talked about it out afterwards, it was
a broad spectrum of just pissed, worried, disappointed, and just
like w twof like what, we cannot trust this kid?

Speaker 5 (39:10):
So who knows, maybe he was a little salty about
that too.

Speaker 4 (39:12):
I just wanted to mention that because it's a little
interesting wrinkle of a guy that had some issues coming
into the league and now you wonder, like, are they
going to trust him again at any point because in
theory he should have a big role in Thursday nights
game if t Higgins isn't available yet.

Speaker 6 (39:27):
Yeah, I mean you're you're dealing with what every team
deals with, which is injuries at certain positions, but at
receiver especially. It's very important to this team because they
learned early in the season that they have to put
up a lot of points and the defense has kind
of come around a little bit, but they still know
they have to put up a lot of points to
win games and their backs are against the wall. So
now is not the time for you rookie to not
show up because he overslept or whatever it might have been.
Get to work on time, be a pro, and I'm

(39:49):
glad Joe Burrow is taking the lead on that.

Speaker 4 (39:51):
Well, they didn't like, they said, like no contact from
him either, So that's a tough one that you don't
hear that too often at the NFL level of just
like total total no show. But he was there on Sunday,
uh ironically showed up like with pajama pants on which.

Speaker 7 (40:10):
It was a road game, he probably wouldn't have made
the flight.

Speaker 5 (40:13):
For some reason.

Speaker 4 (40:14):
I was just thinking, like, I know, it doesn't merely
matter what he showed up, but if you're gonna not
completely show up and then basically get suspent, you know,
like a soft suspension for the game on Sunday, you know,
just put on some jeans or something dress for work.
Pajama pants. My captain almost forgot. We're still in the corner. Uh,
it's just got to be the Cardinals coaching staff in general. Yeah,

(40:36):
I'm going I'm going to coaches. I'm going to multiple coaches.
This thing is is loose.

Speaker 12 (40:41):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (40:41):
Nick Rallis, the defensive coordinator of the Cardinals great game
plan against the Bears, has done a good job, I
think with an undermanned team all year. But he's getting
the nod here because he named his son Dominic Kaisier Rallis. Yeah,
he named his He named his son after Kaizier White,
one of my weirdly favorite players.

Speaker 5 (41:03):
In the NFL.

Speaker 4 (41:04):
You brought up a tough Yeah, you brought up a
tough memory for me. Mentioning the Patrick Mahomes high ankle
Sprain run that he had in the Super Bowl, because
the guy that he juked in the open field which
changed the course of Super Bowl history, was Kaizier White.
But naming your son after Kaizier wait, love that parent.
You know, who knows. Maybe they'll just call him Kaizer.

(41:25):
I don't know if he's going to go by the
middle name or the first name, but good.

Speaker 5 (41:28):
Job by him.

Speaker 4 (41:29):
And then just to spread it out, I'm going to
give Jeff Rogers, the special teams coordinator, some love too,
because some great punt coverage, some diving on the one
yard line, but especially that his players were prepared for
something that's literally never happened, at least that I've ever seen,
and it's not in its current formation where on a

(41:52):
free kick the way that the blockers are set up
is the same as the kickoff the new dynamic kickoff
ten yards apart. So this has never actually happened shook
in the history of football. Tory Taylor or the Bears
did a free kick where you punt it, but he
did a free onside punt and the Cardinals were completely

(42:14):
ready for and Tory Taylor nailed this thing.

Speaker 5 (42:16):
He hit it straight up in the air.

Speaker 4 (42:18):
It only went about ten yards forward, and everyone on
the Cardinals was like, fair catch, fair catch, and they
caught it and everyone just walked away, and the broadcast
booth like, who's ever even seen anything like that before?

Speaker 5 (42:32):
You know who?

Speaker 4 (42:32):
Had Apparently the Cardinals special teams in practice at some
point in the offseason, So good job by Jeff Rodgers
getting them ready for that moment. It was just a small,
stupid thing. I it tickled me in the moment. It's like, Okay,
I've never seen that before. I mean, sometimes you get
things you never seen before, like Saquon Barkley jumping, you know,
ass first over someone, and then you get stuff like that.

(42:53):
This was not as impressive, but it's still pretty cool.

Speaker 7 (42:55):
I feel like I've seen that in the game recently,
maybe the last couple of weeks. But I might be wrong.

Speaker 6 (42:59):
Maybe I'm just like everything's blending together at this point
in week nine. But good on him for preparing his guys.
I will say this, naming your kid the middle name
after a player definitely Trump's Nick Sirianni's award for the
defensive player who got a takeaway of his parking spot.
I think the name carries more permanence than a parking
spot for a week.

Speaker 5 (43:17):
That's fair.

Speaker 4 (43:18):
Yeah, Kaisier White, He's followed him from Philly to Arizona.
Good on the Cardinals coaching staff. That was the Captain's Quarter,
presented by Captain Morgan. It's delicious and crisp, perfect for
game day with friends.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
Spice it up.

Speaker 4 (43:31):
Visit Captain Morgan dot com to find a Captain near you.
Please drink responsibly. Now we're hitting, you know, one of
the tougher parts of the week for me, Shook, it's
my time without you. I gotta wait all the way
till to next Sunday to get back to Nick at night,
back to back nights.

Speaker 5 (43:48):
We got to get you in a midweek show one
of these weeks.

Speaker 6 (43:50):
Yeah, I mean absolutely, I'm always down, you know, But
I'll tell you what if I didn't know any better,
I think he came straight from a sales background with
the way that you just laid that on thick.

Speaker 4 (43:58):
Oh, thank you, thank you very much. All Right, we're
gonna talk a little Dennis Allen and the Saints. What
is next for this organization? What a crazy situation that
they are in moving forward? Talking with the Saints Block
Party Podcast about the Dennis.

Speaker 5 (44:11):
Allen firing after the break.

Speaker 4 (44:29):
Back on NFL Daily, Excited for this conversation. I'm not
sure how this conversation is gonna go. I'm looking across
the city of Los Angeles at my friend Adam. I'm
looking at across the country at my friend Ryan from
the Saints Block Party podcast. Yes, some of the most
frequent guests of this season. They were on and after

(44:53):
Week two when we were talking about Super Bowl aspirations
for this Saints team. They were on after Sean Payton
kind of dug about four feet of the grave for
Dennis Allen. And now we're here after Yes, Dennis Allen
has been fired by the Saints, and there's no one
I wanted to talk about this transaction with more. Adam,

(45:14):
you look too happy for another man's downfall. It's like,
I'm not gonna say it's like Marti Graf for y'all,
but it's like it's like Lundi Gra.

Speaker 5 (45:21):
It's like the day before.

Speaker 13 (45:23):
He's getting paid seven million dollars a year with a
twenty six and fifty three head coaching record. I, respectfully,
I do not care.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
I don't care, Greg, I don't care.

Speaker 5 (45:35):
Okay, when you heard the news.

Speaker 4 (45:37):
Obviously it couldn't have been too shocking coming off of
that performance against Carolina. What's your like, We've buried Dennis
Allen enough. That's not fun to do at this point.
You mentioned his record. Yeah, that's one hundred and forty
seventh out of one hundred and forty nine qualifying coaches
in terms of all time winning percentage. Now, most of

(45:58):
that was with the Raider, but he was eighteen and
twenty five with the Lions, which is not great.

Speaker 5 (46:04):
We can move past it.

Speaker 4 (46:05):
Look, this is a man who coached up a lot
of good defenses for the Saints as a coordinator, but
he's the ultimate Peter principal head coach in the NFL.
Good coordinator, bad head coach. We get it, big picture.
They named Darren Rizzy the interim. But I think there
was a lot of interesting takeaways from how this transaction

(46:27):
was messaged and some of the reporting that that's come
out about it. Where do you want to start.

Speaker 13 (46:32):
Let's start with the two biggest things I found so
interesting is that gil Benson has woken up. For the
last two weeks, she has essentially not been listening to
Mickey Loomis and what he's been telling her how the
team's doing, how he's been telling her how Dennis Allen
is doing as the head coach. And she went out
and talked to players on the side, talk to personnel

(46:55):
people on the side to get their thoughts and opinions
on Dennis Allen. It seems like she is no longer
listening to I won't say the lies, but maybe the
fluffing that Mickey Loomis was doing. And she is trying
to be an active owner because as much as she
may not be a sports person, no one who has

(47:16):
a product wants to continually have their product be seen
and look embarrassing. Losing to the Panthers, one of the
worst teams in the NFL for the last three seasons,
was embarrassing, and so she also made the call to
relieve Dennis Allen off his duties. This was not a
Mickey Loomis call. And the second thing kind of to
tie into that. The people that addressed the team after

(47:37):
d was told to the team that Dennis Allen was
let go was Foster Morrow and Darren Rizzy.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Why would the.

Speaker 13 (47:44):
NFL general manager, NFL general member of a team not
address the team when this happened.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Why would he?

Speaker 13 (47:50):
Why was he not their front, front and center of
the press conference and Darren Rizzy's out there, He's gonna
have his spot on WWL. But I don't I'm not
saying Mickey Luomits is gonna get relieved of his duties.
But there's something happening within that building on Airline Drive.
And it's just not the I believe the Dennis Allen

(48:11):
part of it is just the start of it.

Speaker 12 (48:14):
What do you think, Ryan, He's one hundred percent right.
It's freshting to see that Gail Benson is alive though,
because look, she's been the owner for a couple of
years now, since Tarn Benson passed. Nobody really knew how
she would move in this situation because she hasn't had
to really make a him moves. Mickey Loomis has been

(48:36):
the defacto manager owner of the team. He's the one
that made all the move. She's been encapsulated with her circle,
so nobody really knew. You know, we were covering this
last night, you know, we're wondering what the athenastic gets fired,
and we thought, look, if he were to get fired
after this Panthers game, it would have to be a

(48:56):
Gail Benson call. Would she make that call? And she did.
She got out there and she talked to the players personally.
She went around Mickey Numas and I think that just
speaks It said so much just right there. It just
shows that there's a level of trust that's decreasing just
a little bit, not a lot, but just a little bit.
It would as far as running the organization, because Dennis

(49:18):
Alum was his guy.

Speaker 4 (49:19):
Right, So let's back it up for a second. Mickey
Loomis has been with the Saints organization since two thousand,
so he proceeds when he John Payton, he proceedes GAYL.

Speaker 5 (49:33):
Benson.

Speaker 4 (49:33):
Now you mentioned Gail Benson's only been the owner of
the team for so many years. I think Tom Benson
died in twenty eighteen. I was actually weirdly on NFL
Network on call all that week to talk about Tom
Benson's legacy. I read the book Jeff Duncan wrote about
Tom Benson just to.

Speaker 5 (49:50):
Be ready for that moment.

Speaker 4 (49:51):
So weird because they just knew I was a safe
guy and they didn't have anyone.

Speaker 5 (49:56):
Very weird.

Speaker 4 (49:58):
So she's on the team for six years, and look
they they were married since two thousand and four, so
she's been You could say she's doesn't have a sports background,
but she's been in this game for a while.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
Now.

Speaker 4 (50:10):
We don't need to get into the whole story of
how she became the owner. There were lawsuits between her
side and the and Tom Benton and his daughter from
a previous marriage and her kids, and ultimately in his
will the team was left to her.

Speaker 5 (50:30):
So she is the active owner.

Speaker 4 (50:31):
And to me, this is her first real test as
the active owner, because when Sean Payton essentially quit, the
idea was, let's just keep it rolling. Let's keep it
rolling with Mickey Loomis, Let's not upset the apple cart.
Dennis Allen as a good defense. Let's just keep it going.
And everyone decided to do that. And now the question,

(50:52):
as you guys said, was was she actually going to
make a move on her own? And I want to
read the statement that Mickey Loomis really least on Monday,
his statement read, Dennis Allen is an excellent football coach.
This season, we have had an avalanche of injuries. It
took its toll. Dennis Allen never offered excuses. He fought
each day for his organization and this team, and that's

(51:15):
what makes today disappointing. Dennis has been an integral part
of this organization's success for the better part of twenty years.

Speaker 5 (51:22):
He will be missed.

Speaker 4 (51:24):
I never heard a GM release a statement like that
that felt like he was upset. And when you're saying
that she contacted the players directly, there's been various reporting.
Nick Underhill at New Orleans Football As reported that it's
been out there in different places, New Orleans Times, Picky

(51:44):
Youn different versions of this story that yes, the players
were involved, and that's crazy, and that tells me that
Mickey Loomis is probably not long for this job. But
every Saints fan Adam tells me I'm wrong. Every Saints
Fan's like, Nope, they're never gonna get rid of Nicky.
Lomis is never gonna happen. And I think when an

(52:05):
owner does a move like this, it's a sign that
she's open to anything.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
Going on with that.

Speaker 13 (52:10):
I've heard not only was Gail Benson canvassing information for
players on Dennis Allen, I also heard that she was
canvassing information on Mickey Loomis from players, from personnel. And
when you're doing that, I'm not saying it's gonna lead
to something, but the structure, the crumbles and the fractures

(52:33):
of trust is definitely there. I kind of felt like
Mickey Loomis, to use a Game of Thrones reference, Mickey
Loomis was like little Finger to Gail Benson. He goes
just lies, job preservation, job preservation, and at some point
Sanza comes to her senses and just like no, sorry,
just completely just nerdy Game of Throne talk, but came
to her senses like no, you are not. I don't

(52:54):
want to hear it from you because I know you're
lying to me. It feels like that's in motion right
now within the team hierarchy. And going back to that
statement you just read like I was confused, was like
Dennis Allen fired or was he promoted?

Speaker 1 (53:08):
Like it's such a weird statement.

Speaker 12 (53:10):
What it was almost a defiant statement, you know, Yes,
the way it was read.

Speaker 4 (53:15):
It was and this is a defiant guy. It's a
defiant organization. Look, they stood behind Mickey and Sean Payton
through Bountygate like as hard as it as they possibly could.
Mickey Loomis and Sean Payton. Look, he was the best
man at his wedding and Sean Payton goes. They stood
behind Mickey Loomis. This is a man that helped run

(53:38):
the New Orleans Pelicans does on some levels still, but
you know, was on a more day to day level.
So it's a very fascinating organization to me in terms
of how it's running. But it was absolutely defiant and
this is a guy Mickey Loomis. For what it's worth,
we want to talk GM records forty six and sixty

(53:59):
one without Sean pay at coach. And one of the
reasons I bring all this up, and maybe this is
getting too nerdy for our listeners, but I think it's
really interesting is there is no way for this organization
to move forward to me unless it's a total restart,
because the way they've done things in terms of pushing
all that cap money into the future, and Derek Carr
has a lot of money next year, and there's a

(54:19):
lot of contracts in our next year, and there's a
lot of old players on this roster. I think it
only makes sense to start over with a fresh front
office and a fresh restart and a group that's gonna
be willing to maybe feel some short term pain. It
might be a year or two it might not be
like like some of the teams with huge dead cap
money have been very successful, including the Broncos, like right now,

(54:42):
But a team that's really willing to rip the band
aid off and to me, keeping the same guy that's
run the team Ryans in two thousand, how could that
be a fresh start exactly?

Speaker 12 (54:51):
I mean you got to make a move like will
he get fired or will he move into like another
position within the organization. I don't care, I don't care
how do they do it, but something needs to happen.
There needs to be a large organizational change. They need
to rip the band aid off. The cap nerves have
been screaming about it for years. The Saints keep like,

(55:14):
keep kicking a hand down the road, and I hate
that analysis. But to be in a situation like this
where we're picking top five looking like we're gonna pick
top five in the draft, and you seventy five million
over the camp next hit that is.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
That is just that's this terrible business, Like that's right.

Speaker 5 (55:29):
They've been spending into the bend.

Speaker 4 (55:31):
To Dale Benson's credit, they've been spending more money in
the last five six years in terms of cash than
than they actually used to back under Tom Benson. It
it's quite a history because when you think about it,
like Sean Payton helped get Mickey Loomis fired, they could

(55:53):
really write this is like some Tello novella stuff. You
know what I mean, it's all, it's all, it's all
mixed up, and look everyone's got a little egg on
their face. I went back and listened to that Week
two show just for fun this afternoon, because I gotta
admit I was looking for a SoundBite where I could
clown y'all and play something funny or myself.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
We stand by it, you know what.

Speaker 5 (56:17):
It was more composed than I thought.

Speaker 4 (56:18):
You guys went way harder on your podcast on Saint's
Black Party than on mine. That was where Ryan really
hit it when you guys talking about Kendre Miller. Kendre
Miller bay But when Adam asked, are you guys are
we super Bowl contenders or not? And Ryan answered, well,
Kendre Miller comes back healthy.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
Man.

Speaker 5 (56:43):
You know, did you say there was the best no
line in the league.

Speaker 4 (56:46):
It just as a reminder how seasons can change fast.
Because they were two and ou scoring all these points,
we thought it was maybe gonna be a Derek Carr
Renaissance instead. Derek Carr and his coach have a interesting
statistical factoid that Danna Sound's the only coach to ever
be fired in two places with the same quarterback. And

(57:08):
before the show, we were talking about, oh, the Saints
should get arch Manning in a few years, which would
be interesting. And I don't know if you know this fact, Adam.
Derek Carr this last weekend tied Archie Manning for losing
to the most organizations in the NFL thirty So I
don't know who's the thirty second. I'll have to find
out the Raiders. Okay, the cars, Yeah, the cars. Could

(57:31):
you know he could break that record at some point,
But I don't know if y'all can wait around long
enough to get arch Manning.

Speaker 5 (57:36):
That's a while.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
Yeah, it's a while. It's a while.

Speaker 13 (57:40):
And I will say this from what I heard this
morning after all everything happened, the Saints have their eyes
set on either Detroit coordinator, which is funny because Aaron
Glenn interviewed for the job when Sean Payton stepped down
and was I was told like he blew the Saints
organization away for how like how well he interviewed sounds

(58:02):
very kind of coded. I think they interviewed him as
like a Rooney, like a Rooney check mark, and like
was like, oh, like he actually might be a good
head coach. So they're interested in Ben Johnson, They're interested
in Aaron Glenn, They're interested in Mike Drabil, They're gonna
see how it goes with Darren Rizzy as interim head coach.
Just as a fan, I'm just happy to hear those names.

(58:23):
Does that mean that they're gonna land any of those
any of those names? Who knows, But it just needs
to shift away from you. Gotta let the past be
the past, and you have to evolve, You have to
move on, and this is the first step into that.
But like we keep you keep saying, if Mickey Loomis
is part of it, it's hard to kind of let

(58:44):
go of the past when he's such a prevalent part
of the past.

Speaker 12 (58:48):
Exactly because, I mean, one of the big reasons the
Saints have such a bad sailory cap issue in the
Saints artist talented as they were, is a draft, and
a drafting has been horrible the past couple of years.
Second round pick Brian Baz who looks good, but you know,
isn't maybe hasn't lived up, you know, oh my god,

(59:09):
I mean you can go on on and on for days.
They have to take a look at what they're doing,
the way they're building this team and really start back
fresh at the table and continue to build up, you know,
from that, you know from the foundation, because right now
the foundation is just crumbling.

Speaker 5 (59:26):
It's tough.

Speaker 4 (59:27):
They're in as tough a situation as as any team
outside of Cleveland, I would say, right now in the NFL.

Speaker 5 (59:34):
But they're there.

Speaker 4 (59:34):
But things can they can change fast, like we have
we have seen in the NFL. If you get the
right coach, certainly the right quarterback, you can be rolling
in year two. So it doesn't have to be some
really long rebuild. But yeah, that Derek Carr doing that
Michael Jackson move in the end zone when we were
in the crowd in Dallas, that feels like a long
time ago.

Speaker 12 (59:54):
Dennis out after the game dropping some Kindrick Lamar lyrics like.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
Since the.

Speaker 4 (01:00:02):
Speaking of which Darren Rizzy has got a coach eight
games here, our friend Randy Chavez cut some soundbites from
Darren Rizzy. He was their special teams coach. I love
the sound of him at his press conference. Let's let's
listen to a couple answers that he had.

Speaker 11 (01:00:22):
They should be pissed off. I'm pissed off. The fans
should be pissed off. The people in New Orleans, the
people Louisiana. No one should be happy. And I think
this city deserves a winner. They know what winning football
looks like, and you know it's our job to bring
that back. You know, there's there's a bunch of different
ways to do it. I think we've been doing uh
things around here the same way for a long long

(01:00:44):
time and and maybe some are good. Maybe some are
and we can make some changes, so but there'll be
some different things that we do.

Speaker 5 (01:00:50):
For sure, we've been doing things the same for a
long long time.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
That that was good.

Speaker 5 (01:00:55):
This could be fun.

Speaker 4 (01:00:56):
I don't know if you guys remember the Joe Bitt era,
but he's given me some no vibes.

Speaker 5 (01:01:01):
I love. I love a fiery.

Speaker 4 (01:01:02):
Special Teams interim head coach, like with Dan Campbell was
the interim head coach in Miami. Like he's got to
give you guys some fun and you got the Falcons
coming up.

Speaker 5 (01:01:11):
Ryan, This was like your super Bowl.

Speaker 13 (01:01:14):
The Raider, the Raiders special teams coach for a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
He got, yeah, yeah, I've been calling.

Speaker 12 (01:01:21):
I've been calling, which my interim coach he's now because
I knew this day was coming, and he just definitely
just like it's that he coach, just getting the team
hyped up for two games, go and win to and
then lose the rest. You know what I'm saying, Like that,
that's that's fine with me. Let's not win too much here,
you know, let's not win too much here, you know,

(01:01:43):
maybe get a top five pick. I know, I know,
like I hate I hate that type of thinking, like,
you know, just losing to get picks. But look, man,
this is where we are, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (01:01:52):
But you want to win Sunday, right, this is got
to be a supper ball. It's not the Patriots Jets
game two weeks ago. That was the Patriots super Bowl.
They just wanted to drag down their rivals into the
mud with them. Tell me it wouldn't be fun. I know,
our friend Spice, Rack, Brad Spicer's out here with the
fired coach principal. He's going to be believing in your
Saints they're going to be playing hard. When I saw

(01:02:13):
some of those quotes from from Honey Badger and and
Alvin Kamara.

Speaker 12 (01:02:18):
Already players are already having Rizzy shirts. They have Rizzy shirts.

Speaker 4 (01:02:23):
Carol Granderson's putting up Instagram posts of walking into I mean,
I almost I feel bad for Dennis Allen at this point.

Speaker 13 (01:02:29):
Please don't, please don't. And here's the here's the crazy
part of it. Yes, we want to beat the Falcons,
and that's and that is huge. You know, this is
quote unquote our super Bowl. But I want to like
point out to another little thing in the Devin Rizzy thing.
And I don't I don't feel like I'm reading too
much into it. When he was asked, you know, the
teams have two young quarterbacks on the roster, could they

(01:02:51):
could they see them, like getting looks at them for
evaluation for the future, and he said, like, you know,
I envisioned Derek Derek Carr being the starter for us
on Sunday. He did not, He did not go further
than that, like it was on Sunday. So I do
think if if the season continues to go how it

(01:03:14):
has been, maybe they beat the Falcons, maybe they lose.
You know, you know, a cloud or a cluster of games.
At some point you have to see what you have
in Rattler in a better situation, with Hanger in a
better situation, because you're gonna be comparing these guys and
you're gonna compare them in grading them. How of this
upcoming quarterback class, the cam Wards, the Sanders, the quinn yours,

(01:03:38):
Because you have to know, do we need to draft
one in the top five or do we feel like
we can go BPA and maybe we could go with
what we have in the building. It's a crucial question
that they have to know going into the offseason.

Speaker 4 (01:03:49):
Man, I I don't feel like they're gonna get a
good situation for them to play with, and I don't
think either's the quarterbacks really have a chance talent wise,
makeup wise to be able to excel in the situation
to change any of the draft plans. Doesn't doesn't mean
they can't they can't be in the mix next year,
and you never know. But I have a hard time

(01:04:11):
believing no matter what Spencer Ratler does this season that
it's gonna impact their draft status.

Speaker 5 (01:04:16):
But you never know.

Speaker 4 (01:04:17):
They Sometimes things get freaky with interim head coaches sometimes
they get them winning.

Speaker 5 (01:04:21):
Maybe it'll be fun.

Speaker 4 (01:04:22):
Let's actually listen to one more Darren Rizzy sound before
we go this This one Randy Flagg didn't It just
cracked me out.

Speaker 7 (01:04:29):
Lebron can drop six dy, j R.

Speaker 11 (01:04:30):
Smith can go two for twenty one like you normally did,
and Lebron could Lebron could you know there's they're still
gonna win.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
I heard that earlier and I was I was like,
j R. Smith getting just just shots.

Speaker 4 (01:04:43):
For what I think he was saying, like the stars
can play well and but if your if your role
players aren't playing well, then it's not gonna matter. But
he sort of stumbled on it. You was talking about
Aaron Judge. But that's what I like about interim coaches.

Speaker 5 (01:04:56):
You never know what they're gonna say.

Speaker 4 (01:04:59):
They're gonna be ida trained, appreciate you guys. It really
feels like this was our our Star Wars trilogy of
the Saints. Maybe god maybe it's the Godfather trilogy because
the third one it's just like it's not going right.
But uhh yeah, we got the highs, we got, we
got an emotional loss to the Sean Payton and here

(01:05:21):
we are with big changes.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
Appreciate you guys think you're having us all in man.

Speaker 4 (01:05:27):
That's that's Ryan and Adam from the Saints Block Party podcast.
Everyone check out their show. That's it for this one.
We're gonna be back very soon. It's trade deadline if
we're gonna put up the show a little earlier. Me
and Mike Arrifolo, Jordan Rodrigue responding to all the trade
deadline So those will come up on Tuesday. And yeah,

(01:05:49):
when when the Saints are making big old changes, you
know football is back