Comedown Players of the Year 2020

A bunker filled with heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler and Gregg Rosenthal bring you all of the latest news around the NFL including a new contract for Bills Head Coach Sean McDermott (6:03), Lamar Miller to the Patriots (10:06) and a trip to the new Bengals Den (13:15). The heroes recap Hard Knocks (26:36) before stating their Comedown Players of the Year and taking accountability for the players they picked last year (37:18). Patrick Mahomes last year? Dan, really?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Be Around the NFL Podcast need a soft reboot? Hey, coming,
Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL Podcast.
My name is Dan Hansas, coming to you from a
virtual room filled with heroes. Mark Sessler, right Rosenthal? What

(00:23):
is up, Bully? Maybe a soft reboot would just be like,
you know, we start dressing up more. Um, we start
disliking each other instead of like, oh, they're a bunch
of friends. No, now they're enemies. You know, it doesn't
often necessarily be well, it's like instead, it's kind of
like a marriage. At the end, you say, would you
do this all over again? I guess the question is,
would you sign up with the same you know, three

(00:45):
other people and producer equation all over again? Or would
you would you scramble it and bring it a whole
new bunch of people. I would do it all over
That's important. I would keep our current producer. I would
That's write a rap for Mark Sussler. Yeah, during a pandemic,

(01:07):
I'm re running I'm running this back. Who knows that
other combo we might be out. We're just you know,
four guys at a bar chopping it up. But what
if we became four dudes at a bar slugging it
out right, That's what I mean, is like less like

(01:28):
the personnel reboot, but more just a plot twist, plot
twist after seven. Well, that's what they do in professional wrestling.
It's like every once in a while, there's a staleness
that sets in with a fan favorite and usually what
they'll do in that realm is okay, like turn them
into a bad guy. See how that plays. So maybe

(01:48):
we just maybe not, I think we could squeeze one
more drop of a baby face version of the Around
the NFL podcast, but maybe like a full on heel
turn only one against each other, not not outward. I've
been trying that the whole time. So actually I turned
into the nice guy and you guys are all jerks
like fun Yes, no, Chris Westling today west Uh is

(02:16):
going to join us whenever you can. He's not making
it this week but this show, but maybe coming up
again soon. But it's still I got that kind of
afterglow from west being back in the mix on Monday,
So that was that was awesome and we hope to
have him back again soon enough. UM, busy show, very
busy show today. Um we have what do we have

(02:40):
to get through? Here. Oh, Hard Knocks is back. The
premiere was Tuesday night. I wrote the recap that's up
on NFL dot com right now, and we're gonna talk
about the premiere episode, uh featuring the Rams and Chargers.
Also bringing back something from last summer that I thought
was kind of a fun conversation them down players of

(03:01):
the Year. We all know that come back players of
the Year are the feel good story, and we talked
about how Alex Smith is going to have that thing
on hyper lock if he manages to hang around with
the Redskins this year. But who are some of the
players that coming off a great twenty nineteen. It doesn't
mean they're gonna torpedo and find themselves out of football

(03:25):
by next season when we're the Heel Podcast. It means
maybe just aren't gonna be quite at the level of
production that we saw a season ago. Come down Players
of the Year turn of phrase there. I like it.
I mean, the world doesn't have enough negativity in it
right now. We need to just add add on some more. Yeah,

(03:48):
I mean, I guess I'm totally and I like the idea.
We need to start getting ready for this season. It's
four weeks away. It's insane. It's time players that players
have helmets on now, they're they're practicing a little bit today.
People are like decoding really fuzzy images of Bill Belichick
walking around on on Patriots dot Com and then tweeting

(04:12):
that out as if that's great content here. But that's
where we're at right now with Rainey Camp. Alright, that
is where we're at. Very excited to get into today's show.
So let's kick it off as we always do, with
a little bit of news. Hey, and also, don't be
the guy that takes the poor potties. All right, I
went in there about threw up all I have a

(04:33):
little bit more uh social awareness that's to take a
don't take it in the poor potties. I don't even
want to give that context. I'm just gonna imagine there's
a portion of our audience that did not see the
premiere of Hard Knocks, and uh so you have no
idea what that's all about. And it's just, yeah, the
voice of Sean McVeigh, the coach of the Rams, just

(04:57):
hissing about the use of the old porta John outside. Well,
and it's basic good life advice. I mean, whether or
not you saw the episode. It kind of just works
right anywhere. Well, all right, unless you are to go
number two into in a hideously stinky porta potty with

(05:17):
no I was gonna say it, who does that act
someone in an emergency situation, like a child in an
emergency scenario? Man, Yeah, yeah, you don't do that unless
you have to. And Aaron Donald cracked that case. And
we're gonna get to hard knocks a little bit later.
The NFL films personnel, and there's thirty of them. They

(05:40):
don't have access to the buildings, so let's cut them
a little break. Let's not embarrassed them. It's a human act, Greg,
it's a human act. Dan clearly, you know, just used
the porta potty and is feeling feeling. I seek them out.
I seek them out. All right. Let's start the news

(06:01):
with the Buffalo Bills, who are really on the right path,
it seems right now, very steady h franchise with a
great roster and good leadership at the top and on
the sidelines. And Sean McDermott and they know it because
we just learned today that he was given a five

(06:22):
He was given a four year extension that will take
him through it's a six year deal, and obviously it's
one that he's earned very well. Yes, the Bills from
a pure record standpoint, and twenty three across these uh
three seasons, Uh, they haven't won a playoff game under McDermott.
But that doesn't tell the whole story, not at all.

(06:44):
Mark Well, I mean he's he's brought them to the
playoffs twice, and I think especially the first time with
the team that a lesser coach would not have been
able to uh reach the postseason. I we're fans of
Sean McDermott. I think is a group. Um he's been
on our show. We found him to be I think
surprisingly engaging, where there wasn't a huge impression that I

(07:05):
had a McDermott before. It's interesting because he came up
for so many interviews before he got that Bill's job.
And there's got to be a couple of teams who
have been now on their second plus coach at this
point thinking we could have had Sean McDermot. Well, sure,
I mean there's there's that whole mill of teams that
sort of went through the same guys. Sean McDermott is
perfect for Buffalo. I think he is a top ten coach.

(07:27):
I really do. I think he does certain things really
spect his special quality is coaching up the secondary defensive backs.
That's translated to Buffalo. They were the only team in
the league last year that didn't allow a deep passing touchdown.
That's not a coincidence. That's the fingerprints of Sean McDermott.
I love his match with Brandon being they had a
lot of coach GM in fighting for years and there,

(07:49):
and we knew somethings that you know, maybe wouldn't have
been reported that we heard that was sort of on
the border being shocking of how dysfunctional the team was.
And they have removed that dysfunction and success comes. And
so I really think that this was a no brainer
move for a team heading in the right direction. He's
one of the most powerful coaches in the NFL because
because I because I kind of think like Pete Carroll

(08:11):
in Seattle and Belichick and read he his say I
think matters most in personnel. Bean's executing it. Look, there's
a lot of work that goes into being a GM,
but it's McDermott's team. It's cool to see. I mean,
you know, I like the idea of some coaches that
have some leeway. Look, if Josh Allen has a stink
bomb season or whatever, and they have to find another

(08:32):
quarterback at some point, it's like, I like the idea
that they're committed to this coach because they should be.
They've been a top five defense two years in a row.
According to football outsiders. That's tough to do. They're actually
projected to be the number one defense in the NFL,
I think by football outsiders. He's made good hires, which
is really important, including being frankly because you know he
was involved in that higher uh, he was involved in

(08:54):
hire Brian Dable, not a guy a lot of people wanted,
who I think has done a really good job. The offensive,
which was a problem it wasn't just defensive, is stable now.
Um so I love it. And I think the more
teams that have a little stability, the more they can
have an identity. We're at a point right now. Bill
O'Brien is one of the longest tenured coaches in the league,
and he's like in the top five or six, I

(09:15):
think six or seven. I mean, that's that's how much
we churned through these coaches. And I really do think
McDermott normally will be there at the end of this
contractor it has a good chance. Normally i'd be skeptical,
but this is a guy I can really see lasting
that long. In other news, the New England Patriots have
added a player to their backfield on offense. Lamar Miller

(09:36):
familiar name, has signed a one year deal with the team.
Miller blew out his A C L and M C
L a year a year ago last year. Boy, my boy.
I have always liked Lamar Miller, but I liked him
more when he wasn't almost thirty with a blown out knee.
I don't know what he's at at this stage of
the game, but you know, it's a good little insurance

(09:59):
signing for the Patriots who lost Brendan Bolden to the
COVID nineteen opt out and Sony Michelle who had foot
surgery in May. It's unclear he's on the populist right
now what his availability is, and he could end up
pup pupulist guy come week one, which would take him
out of action for six weeks, which makes Lamar Miller

(10:19):
a nice guy to have in your building if he
could still play the guitar. You. Yeah, you famously picked
him a few different times for making the leap one
of the I think the only two are three times
making a leap guy. Um. I think Michelle. Sony Michelle,
which who we haven't talked about on this podcast, is
in is in some trouble. It sounds like he might

(10:40):
not be ready for the start of the season. There's
a lot of buzz in New England about Damien Harris,
a second year third round pick who people liked in
the off season last year, then he got hurt right
before the season as kind of the the latest Patriots
running back who gets taken last in fantasy leagues but
winds up kind of being the closest thing they have
to the guy. But who knows, maybe it'll be Lamar

(11:01):
Miller like that. That's crazier. Things have happened than that
too in New England. Well, I mean Damian Harris. Last year,
whispers were generating that maybe Sony Michelle wouldn't be the
lead back because of Harris, and you know that didn't
come to fruition. I just would say, if you're running
back looking to revive your career, you're not gonna go
there and be a lead back. Necessarily they don't really
seem to operate that way of late. But what a

(11:22):
great place to go is a running back, Bill Belichick. Uh,
could we've said it before? It could turn one of
us into a six yard Russier in that in that offense,
maybe no more than that for the three of us
be a running team. Cam Newton, I think I think
they're gonna be a big time running team. Whether that
works or not, we'll see or yards did him? You
know that's true. Supposedly someone noticed that again they're like

(11:47):
looking at these grainy videos and Patriots dot Com that
Cam Newton was like fourth in the rotation, behind someone
behind their undrafted rookie that's in so you know, hey,
he's got to move up the depth. Churt Sessler speaking
Damian Harris, I'm gonna share a little later in the show,
what are come down? Players of the year predictions were
from last summer. But you were, you were, You had

(12:08):
your eyes on Sony Michelle a year ago as a
guy that could be on the fade with Damian Harris
on the rise. You might have missed that by one. Well,
that's that's a move of mine, like to to usher
a prediction that's utterly wrong. But then the year later
it becomes wasn't wasn't wrong? I mean Sonny Michelle. Well,

(12:28):
I guess the numbers were Damian Harris as the reason
that the numbers are about the same, but no one
but that's based on that one's gonna be like, hey,
you know when when I grow up, I'm not I'm
not gonna be like, hey, you really missed out on
that two thousand nineteen Sony Michelle season. Not a lot
of it. I think to Dan's point that the prediction
was not a home run, but now it's like closer

(12:49):
to a home run. And uh, up next to the
news and I'm really bummed that West isn't here because
I think he really would have appreciated this, perhaps been
perplexed by it, maybe been angry about it. But yes,
we know all about what are some of our our
annual team fan clubs. Of course, last year we had
the fish tank, got the Grievance Nest. We could go

(13:12):
there less in my opinion, if we needed to the Titans.
The Titans. Ever, no, we didn't know that. I believe
this year and I feel free to chime in with
your thoughts, but this year, let's unveil the Bengals Den.

(13:38):
My son like this. He spends literally hours a day
pretending he's a tiger and just like biting people around
the house. So this is gonna be a big fan.
I'd have that checked out Greg personally, but it sounds engaging. Yes,
the Bengals Den where we study the Cincinnati football franchise
a team on the rise. Let's go through some news items.

(14:01):
Here's starting with cornerback Trey Waynes, who could be out
up to two months after suffering a pectoral injury. This
is so Bengals. I mean, it's it's tough to open
up the Bengals then in this way because this team
wouldn't spend money for years and years in free agency
and they get hand out a three or forty two
million dollar deal to Wahanes to fix up their secondary

(14:23):
and then he immediately tears his pack. So we'll see
how long he's gonna be out, but he will start
the season on the sideline. There's one of the positives.
Oh attack, it was one of the positives. You know,
I guess of this totally news list. First two weeks

(14:45):
of training camp there were no injuries because you know,
there's only like one way to get injured while lifting weights,
and that is tearing your pectoral muscle. Well, that comes
from Greg. Greg is plugged in on these matters in
the I mean, I'm start of joking, but it seems
like that's the like only way that people people heard.
It was a year ago. They lost a j green

(15:05):
in the first i think day of training camp a
year ago and that changed their entire season. And Waynes
was pretty is an interesting case because he was quite
annoyed at the Bengals. I thought that they really waited
for him to be there in person to sign his contract,
and while ninety plus percent of the league had their
contract you know, free agent contracts tucked away, he not

(15:27):
the case for him, and he called it publicly a
giant headache, and he basically said this is terrible at
one point in an interview, and like for all the
Bengals progressive, free active free agency, this was sort of
a case that made them look like the old Bengals
a little bit. And then he hits the scene to
fix one of the worst secondaries in the league from
a year ago, and uh, he's gone, you know early on,

(15:48):
that's that's not a positive on any did have this
dude Darius Phillips in the last couple of weeks of
the season. I think he played both the year teams.
He had three interceptions in about two games he played unbelievable.
One of those games they forget if it was against
the Jets and Browns. But he's gonna step in. But
it's not what you want. It's not what you want.
It's not what you want. A little Joe Girardi in

(16:10):
a big spot from Greg and other Bengals. Then news,
defensive tackle Mike Daniels signs a one year deal with
the Bengals. H thirty one years old. He's had injury
issues his last two years. But you got Geno Atkins
on the inside. If Mike Daniels could get healthy and
approach his former levels of play, you know he got

(16:31):
some cooking in there. I like Sam Harvard. Atkins wasn't
the same. But your your boy from your Europe trip,
Carlos Dunlap was a beast. Sounds stretch. He's always good,
but he was. You would think he'd be getting a
little older. Geno Atkins looks a little older. He was
not Gino Atkins um that we've come to appreciate UH

(16:51):
last year. But Carlos Dunlap was like on fire at
the end of the season when not many people were
too interested in the nineteen Bengals. And finally John Ross's
left Bengals camp to take care of his son UH.
The kid unfortunately tested positive for COVID nineteen. The child's
mother also tested positive, so Ross steps away from the

(17:12):
team UH to be there for the family. Tough situation,
but hopefully he's back ahead of week one. So that
is what's cooking in the Bengals. Dan Good Good premiere,
Guys Good premiere episode Good Up. Not a lot of
good news in the den, there is. I mean, we

(17:34):
could be answering a den of sorrow, but with we're
we're diving in and we're gonna we're just gonna hope
for the best. Okay, you never see you never see
news like you know, another calm day in the Bengals den.
You know, everything we're in great today with the Tigers
that they do more carnage to come in the Bengals
that I'm sure all right. In other news, Monday night

(17:57):
football news, you know, we love talking Monday night ball
and not even the games, the game within the game,
the game up in the booth. Done done done, done,
La la la la la la la d d d
d d d dumb dumb yagya ya ye See, people

(18:20):
only know the instrumental version. They don't know if the
one with Fox. I love. You know Andrew Marshand, he's
one of our martian he's one of our favorite media
guys out there covering all the happenings, uh in this
league of hours, our league, and he had a nice
little nugget in his mail bag. I mean, people are

(18:42):
really stepping up with these mail bags. One thing I
had not anticipated in the mail bag game was people
starting to bury, you know, little nugs of like uh
uh scoops putting scoopage of mailbags. Yeah, because the I
think we've shifted away from Hey, I'm just offering my
opinion in the mail bag too. Now you've got to
be breaking news. So now damn you've got a lot

(19:03):
of sources, and you've got media sources in house, media sources,
So you just gotta start to lean on that angle,
because I think that's the hook versus hey, look at me,
here's my opinion on someone's backfield you've gotta be dropping
some information that no one else has and I know
you can inside. Thank you, Mark, I appreciate your belief

(19:32):
in me. And yeah, I think it's kind of a
if you want to call it a wake up call
or just the challenge. I think it's the natural evolution
of things that the mail bag. Yeah, used to be
a place where you could have some fun and joke
around with the listeners or the readers and crack crack
wise a little bit and throw some football analysis in there.
But now they're Scoopidge. They're Scoopidge. And why is the

(19:52):
Scoopidge again? Here? They're scoopid bro Marcy. He's out there
in the middle of a question. Someone asks about what's
up with this new Monday night football booth, and Marshawn
says that ESPN talk to RAMS coach Sean McVeigh about
being a Monday Night football analyst. Sean McVeigh, the thirty

(20:13):
four year old RAMS coach who seems to be right
in the middle of a career that's gonna last, you know,
another twenty to thirty seven years. But no ESPN kicking
all tires, every tire in the world except for hours,
apparently says Hey, Sean, do you want to come off
the sidelines and be our Monday night football guy. It
doesn't look like that's gonna happen. But according to Marsian,

(20:35):
he was approached the guy who was like the most
like John Gruden, and it was like him in fact,
Colleen and we're gonna get to our Hot Knocks recap
in a second. But Colleen texted last night that her
belief that John Gruden or McVeigh might be turning into

(20:56):
John Gruden. Their personalities are starting to merge, and ESPN
A executives think that McVeigh could be a standout in
the booths somewhat like John Gruden. According to Marcian, so
my one thing the records under contract, and this seems
like it was never something serious, but ESPN kicked the tire.
It sounds like he listened, though, which I think is

(21:16):
like that that's intriguing. I mean, for me, if you're
you know they've they've got Levy and and and Riddick
and and Greasy in there for this season, you can't help.
I would just be thinking it's clearly had fifteen to
twenty people they really wanted more like I remember being
like a sophomore in high school and getting asked to
like a homecoming at the eleventh hour by someone that

(21:38):
I knew through my back channel information had asked multiple
other people to go to the dance and they said no,
and I said yes because I needed plans. But the
entire time, I'm thinking, this person doesn't really did not
really choose me for this event first. And it's a
hideous way to go through an experience. So it's it's
kind of tough sledding for the current m n F

(22:00):
group to have to go in there and try to
prove even their own company wrong. I think about what
they want to do in the future. Chip on the
shoulder and a little word of advice because I see
what ESPN is doing here. Seahawks general managers Johnson Schneider.
If ESPN calls you about Jamal Adams, do not even
pick up the phone, because if that gets back to

(22:22):
Jamal Adams, he will never forgive you. You You can't even
pick up the phone. If there's a call, don't pick
up the phone. Look at the call waiting, it says ESPN.
Just in the case that Jamal adams name comes up,
don't pick up the phone because you would not want
to anger him because he was as a Monday Night
football contributor. You're saying that they made after Okay, I

(22:44):
mean that's good advice. I didn't see how you can
make this about the Jets, but you didn't. Uh. And finally,
one more bit of media news. Happy trails to Dion Sanders,
who leaves our company after many a year to join barstool.

(23:04):
This is all over the sports media beat today and
I just gotta say, guys, and I'm curious if you're
in the same boat. I am a little bit sad.
I I'm hitting the ten year mark of my time
at NFL Media next week and I worked at Dion
Sanders the entire time he was a colleague, and yet

(23:28):
we never spoke. I'm not even sure I ever saw
hims best to ploy Well, yeah, I think it would
be news to him that well. No, And in fact,
on our network show, do you remember that I pitched
him as the ideal candidate for a last dance scenario
if we were to do that about an NFL figure.

(23:49):
I thought I would, and I tweeted about it and
with some video I thought for sure that would stage.
Um the beginnings of a friendship and uh, total dead air,
no no response at all those and we got sorry.
The closest we got I think was when we um
left a mess of like used peanuts in the special
Deon Sanders Studio like the Yeah it's a big it's

(24:12):
a big place that I've on network. But it's pretty
impressive that Dion had his own studio essentially for his
own show. But we broke in there one time. Um,
we cleaned the mess, I believe, but we were also
told never to use it again. Right. Well, I think
we called the cleaning crew to do it. I don't
think we even had enough integrity to clean it on
our own, to be honest, But well, we cleaned up.

(24:34):
We tried after ourselves, but it was messy, as I
are called. And I didn't even know if that was
Deon studio at that point. I think it was just
his own private green room during Sundays. It was his room. Yeah,
it was just his room. They eventually repurposed it. But
the other thing is we were able to access Dion's
private green room with our key cards. And then shortly

(24:55):
thereafter after that viral internet stunt gone awry. Uh you
no longer had keycard access to the room, so they
went into the system and took care of the heroes
in a big spot. So anyway, by Dan, good luck.
That's what's happening in the news. Hard Knocks time Yes season,

(25:33):
the acclaimed HBO docuseries premiered on Tuesday night. Hard Knocks
Los Angeles. It's not a criminal procedural. Let your grandparents
watch them Monday nights. It's a study of the Ramps
and Chargers as they prepare for the strangest NFL season

(25:58):
in our league's history. Um, we talked about in Friday Show.
I had that conversation with Ken Rogers, the VP and
NFL Films and the guy who's been running the show
for years that the premier episode was gonna be a
lot different. You weren't gonna see a lot of football,
And that made sense. That wasn't some narrative choice on
Tuesday Nights episode. There was no football really to cover

(26:19):
for the most part, because, um, the first week of
August for the Rams and Chargers and every other team
was getting back on the uh, just getting back to
the building and doing uh, you know, obviously the testing
UH for COVID nineteen to make sure everything was clean
and figuring out the logistics you know, you know you
want you you think about what a head coach is

(26:39):
asked to do for a team. I thought it was
interesting you're actually watching both Anthony Lenna the Chargers, but
a scene with Sean McVeigh where he is hands on
and trying to figure out how to build out this
big overhang canopy tent where he's going to hold meetings
and various walk through practices with the offense and the defense.

(27:00):
How much thought and work and cleaning and disinfecting is
going on in a constant cycle to just try to
keep your team from the absolute tragedy that would be
an outbreak that would ruin their season and potentially blow
up the NFL. So for me, Greg in the first episode,
that was what was interesting to see. How were teams

(27:22):
trying to keep the players and the coaches healthy and
then how do you balance that with actually trying to
start preparing for a season with which is five weeks away.
When they take this right, you didn't have a lot
of the same beats it. It's not going to be
as high octane, especially the first week or two in
terms of the football you're also not going to have
as much time inside the players houses for obvious reason,

(27:45):
and in going home and sort of having that features
and so on some level it was like more informational
and like less just total entertaining. But I still I
found it fascinating because I'm just I'm interested in this world.
I love football, and like this is this is what
football is right now, and I don't love this part
of football, but I am sort of fascinated to see

(28:09):
how the NFL is dealing with this as we as
we all are in different ways now we're not we're
not going to work in the same way, um, but
in many ways it makes the players and the coaches
relatable in in a different way because they're going through
some of the the same things and and you get
to see kind of what people are made of behind
the scenes to I mean, just what they're like. And

(28:31):
and as much as we've always heard about Anthony Lynn
as like a guy that just everyone will run through
a wall for like you kind of get it now
like watching him and McVeigh for that matter, to handle
this situation as grown ups as leaders and how they
are going to navigate, you know, trying to lead eighty
nine people and even more you know when when it

(28:52):
comes to their staff. Yeah, I think that I agree
with Greg. And I watched it twice, and I really,
to be honest, I just I didn't enjoy it the
first time. UM. I didn't find it to be unlike
other a lot of hard knocks vehicles. I just found
it in essential. Uh that's me. At the second time
I watched it, I had a bit of a different
take UM, and the positives For me, I it centers

(29:13):
almost entirely around Anthony Lynn, who I had been curious about. UM.
I think he along with Sean McVeigh. And I love
your note Dan about Sean McVeigh organizing how that huge
tent would be organized, because that's what you hear about
Sean McVeigh is that he's in everything, and he has
ideas about everything. He's ingenious and it's gonna be his
program from top to bottom. Were they Anthony Lynn too?

(29:33):
I think it's just that these coaches today, UM, they're
not gonna work if they don't relate to players. And
in the opening scene with Anthony Lynn jumping on a
zoom call a little bit late where you had UM,
I think was Mike Pouncey about to tell a story
that maybe you could have been a little off color,
who knows, But Anthony Lynn jumped on and said, I'm here,
I'm here, and you just saw them. Their eyes changed,
their energy changed, their head coaches there, and I just

(29:55):
think that there's a chunk of head coaches around the
league that, um, when things go bad, especially, just don't
have that grip over their players. Anthony Lynn is a
man's man. I loved Um. I'm not a big barbecue guy, obviously,
but I loved watching him barbecue with like a wedding
china spoon that his wife was a little annoyed he
was using wrapped in a napkin to base various meat products.

(30:15):
I just came away thinking highly of both coaches. Um,
some of the stuff in there. Uh it was twenty
five minutes in and it was all Corona, from which
I get it. I totally get it. I just am
excited to see where we go in the next couple
of weeks. I don't think Hard Knocks can be judged
off of the first episode almost ever. Um, there I
do see predictable beats heading I know we're gonna get

(30:37):
an Austin nekel Or episode. You know we're gonna get
a huge thing on basically Aaron Donald and golf and
all of it. It's all coming. But they did. I
think they had to tackle this a certain way, and
they did it. I'm glad you had that second rewatch,
Mark because you were sending off some very angry texts
last night about the premiere. Can I can I can

(30:57):
I re real quie what's going on? Like? Um I
I find one thing I'm not not gonna do again
is watch the show with Twitter open. It's it's it's
a hideous um tugging down of the experience that should
just be watched on its own for well. But it's
but even like the pressure of having to lie, I
don't know the whole thing. I just want to enjoy
it the way I wo a normal television show. It's

(31:17):
not a top ten show in my world. Um, it
is an NFL based show. It's pretty good. Always got
mixed feelings about I have mixed feelings. But when it's good,
it's really really good. And with Anthony Lynn and it
taught me about him, that's when it's really good. Yeah.
Lynn came off really well in this episode. Um, I
look forward to learning more about him. Just some quick

(31:37):
notes that I had in kind of my uh recap.
I want to go through here, Aaron Donald with a
shirt off. I want to talk shirtless dudes for a second. Here.
We'll start with Aaron Donald. Um, your boy Mark Mark
Miles Garrett to me, I thought I always thought had
the most impressive Hard Knocks body, But I don't know.
I mean Aaron Donald six and literally muscles on muscles

(32:01):
on muscles. He looks like somebody from like Conan the Barbarian,
if you remember that old Schwarzenegger movie. And he's the
greatest player in the arguably and his best player, and
like the corner could be squawking, and Aaron Donald was
just like ignoring it. He's like this huge thing that's
just in Dion's like this little fly, so why and
He's just like, get get away from me. I couldn't

(32:23):
I couldn't tell if he was like a lovable team
jester or just that guy that you hate to be
around because he won't he won't shut up. And he
felt he felt like that Hard Knocks guy, Like it
just seemed like the every Hard Knocks cast, someone to
play that role, but maybe on being too cynical. I
just it seemed like we're gonna be dealing with this

(32:43):
guy for five weeks now, hanging there Mark, let's want
a guy like that though. I mean, it's not like
they have to cast. It's real. Yeah, those people exist.
Speaking of shirtless dudes, um, does somebody want to tell me? First?
Sean McVeigh the pool scene where he says he's been
teaching his dog new tricks and all of a sudden,

(33:06):
his shirt is off and McVeigh is like, hey, make
sure you get me on camera in my pool, and
then he's saying, check out the dog trick I I
have going on. And he's throwing a football at the
dog with a basketball hoop next to him, and the
ball is just clanging off the dog's face and there's
no alley slam from the dog, there's no tipping, there's
nothing like that. And then it's you just start to wonder.

(33:26):
It was like, was this all just a ruse to
get McVeigh with a shirt off to show off the
work he's putting in the home gym across my mind?
Agree or disagree? I think it was a pleasant I
disagree with that but I'm a little worried about this.
You know, CT with this dog here, it's kind of
like air Bud. You're watching that. You know, he took
a lot of footballs off the head. I don't know

(33:48):
that it doesn't like douldn't seem like the best thing
for the dog. I think if you're Sean McVeigh, he's
obviously been putting in the work because we had a
chance to meet him in person that that one summer,
and he has jacked up from that time. He wasn't
a dainty individual back then, but I think you've got
to jump in the pool with no shirt to show
it off. He lives about ten minutes from us, uh,
and he has living life in a different way than

(34:09):
we are living. Um. That is my takeaway on Sean McVeigh.
Ten minutes in distance, but in every other way it
is a much different life. Tyrod tyrod Taylor's new look
with the big hair and the beard. That's good. I
like that a lot. Yeah, I like him a lot.
Now he just feels I don't know, there's something about

(34:30):
him though. He's got a little bit more to him. Imagine, dude,
he felt he can be um frustrating as a conservative passer,
but he always seemed like a a cool guy. Well,
we're gonna by the way, Melvin Ingram, Yeah, I don't
know if that's on your list, but he has to
be the first player ever to be in the song
credits at the end that was his own song. He's wrapping.

(34:52):
Melvin Ingram is a wild man. He is one of
the most intense players I've ever um, you know, like
seen in an interview situation. Feel like if if I
was going to pick a guy who's gonna be a
rising star out of hard knocks, he would be it.
And uh Marcus Grant of our great fantasy team here
at NFL Media. Uh like in Tyrod Taylor's new look

(35:13):
to Donald Glover Childish Gambino and that This is America
video which definitely did uh sync up with me as well.
And uh, let's see any of the thought I have.
That's about it. I'm I'm looking forward to episode two
and and more football. But I did really like the
the peek behind the curtain of how this actually works,

(35:35):
and I was I would be interested to think other teams,
the other thirty teams, what their protocols are and if
it's any different than the Rams and Chargers. Did they
learn anything from watching this? Because you know, every every
team watches Hard Knocks, every front office does. So that's
interesting to me. Is well to think about the career

(35:56):
where when they when you get fired and you walk
into your bosses, you say like you gotta be kidding me,
and then the bosses are then talking about like, hey,
I like that fire from that guy. Bring him back
to the taxi squad. Yeah, tight end. Andrew Vollert didn't
like being cut immediately. I thought that was kind of
a pretty ballsy move. And yes he did. Anthony Lynn

(36:18):
did say to the GM Tom to LESCo that he
did admire him showing emotion. But then he also threw
in a singer at the end, hold up man you
a and Antonio Gates now does it bother? Well? Sorry,
doesn't bother? And it honestly disturbed me too because I
should know this, but that Justin Herbert was born like

(36:42):
it just um to me. It was a defining low
blow to the viewer. If you're my age, yeah that
was rough. He gives me vibes from Friday Nay Light
a little bit Justin hurt m And remember Peter shre
Tiger as the official Hard Knocks Podcast. If you want

(37:02):
a real deep dive on every episode, check that out.
I believe you had Anthony Lynn on the debut episode,
so make sure you check that out wherever you get
your podcast. The Hard Knocks Podcast with Peter Schreeger. All right,
let's move on come down players of the Year in
and yeah, Greg, I see you. I know you were joking,

(37:23):
but yes, you can look at this as a negative segment,
or it could just be more a segment rooted in
keeping it real that you don't necessarily have to fall
off a cliff and be terrible. You just might not
be the same guy you were a year ago, because
sometimes it's hard to kind of stack up seasons like
that over and over again, so they just come down.

(37:46):
Well maybe you guys have people that just fall off
a cliff, but mine are more come down, just down,
gradual decline, gradual decline. There you go. It's good to
bring that back up. It's already been used. Now it
finally came through for me. He took a long time
because it did. Uh, So let's let's throw out some

(38:06):
players who we see potentially un a graduate of decline.
But Before we do that, I want to um share
with you what our predictions were last year. That's fun
and also it's good too. That's accountability, you know what
I mean? I like it. Please, here we go. All right,

(38:30):
let's start with the zoo, Sir. I had Patrick Mahomes
and I said that it was I kind of likened
it to the Dan Marino situation, where you are sometimes
you just have a season that's so beautiful and so
perfect that you'll never match it again. And to me,

(38:51):
I was right. Mahomes wasn't the same player. Uh, from
a regular season standpoint, he got hurt. Of course, his
numbers didn't sniff what he did in twenty eighteen. In
the playoffs, though, he got hot and won a Super Bowl.
So me, my prediction was that he just wouldn't be
as statistically incredible as he was. So I'm taking the
w there. I mean, if someone someone told you that

(39:12):
he was gonna operate, he won the Super Bowl a
dislocated decap for most of the season. We're not counting
the playoffs. What is this like stats or something? Why
would why wouldn't we count the playoffs? He was a
top three quarterback. If I don't think he even in
the regular season, I'd say in any argument, he'd be
a top three. Do you think he was just as
good as Noything? He was just as good. He wasn't

(39:33):
just as good the offense. The Chiefs offense wasn't just
as good. But aside from the injury, maybe he came
Maybe he just came down a little bit little maybe,
but I'm saying top three, and then he won the
Super Bowl. I'm not giving it. I won't give you
a night that other players would not play through. I'll
give you a tie. I'll take the tie. I also
had a push come on. I also had Drew Brees.

(39:58):
I'll take the low and I'll take the lost on
that one. I don't think he really came down. I
believe he still Drew Brees. Uh. Claibron was on this
episode a year ago. He had Aaron Donald, which I
guess he came down, but not really still Laron Donald,
Mark Sessler, Eric Ebron, and you predicted mo Ali Cox
turning into a major factor. We don't need to mention

(40:21):
that part of it. This is also before Andrew Luck retired.
Should be noted. I had Adrian Peterson, Greg you had
Dante Fowler and Jared goth one for two there Fowler played,
well that was a hit. You know that was a hit. Yeah,
that was a good one. Matt Naggy. Nice job by

(40:42):
Claibonn's that was well done. Uh Cecil you chimed in
with the Bears turnover aggression on defense, which I'm sure happened.
Nice job, ay you Mark really swinging for the fences
here with well, you know what it's like, let's actually
give the listeners something that's going to be correct. And

(41:03):
that's what I did. I was correct twice that you
know what else can they can rely on me to
get it correct and right. And then finally Sessler Damien
Harris is going to be a bigger role chewing away
at Sonny Michelle's job. So that was last year. Now
this year, get us going, Greg Rosa, all right, I'm
going to start with with Richard Sherman and the forty

(41:25):
niners second in general, but Sherman started the leader. I mean, look,
he was the second team All Pro last year. It
was kind of amazing, and I think he will be
a Hall of Fame type guy, and I think a
Hall of Famer. I do think this little. This second
act in San Francisco was going to help him get there,
and no one thought he would be that good. I think,

(41:47):
and I think that their secondary with him as the
leader in general, really overperformed. Uh. And I look at
it and I think, if the forty Niners are going
to come back to earth a little bit, that's an
area where they can be a tacked, a tough division.
Um and uh, I think asking him to be that
good again, and asking that secondary where I'm not really

(42:09):
sure that talent is totally there, to be that good
again is a natural come down. I think he was
PFF's number one cornerbacks, so if we're to finish number two,
you would be correct. Technically, I would give you the
w on that. I mean, if he's still an All Pro,
I'm not taking it. But uh yeah, I think at
this forty Niners team that you know, the the analytics

(42:30):
like football outsiders for they think they're there's a big
reason to believe that they'll regress this year. Now, on paper,
it doesn't seem like that. There's a lot of forty
Niners fans that think that they're going to be better,
but it is true. When you improve that much in
one year. Usually you come back to the pack a
little bit, you come down, Mark Sessler, how about a
come down Player of the Year candidate? Well, I don't

(42:53):
like having to pitch this because I think his story
is awesome. But um, Darren Waller from the Las Vegas
Raiders A. He had ninety catches, a thousand plus yards
and three touchdowns last year, and I think the offense
is just changing. They they're just simply they've added more weapons.
You've got rugs in there your first round pick. Uh.
They added Brian Edwards another rookie hunter, Renfrover would maybe

(43:15):
have a larger role there. I think they're just gonna
diversify and spread the ball a little around a little
bit more. And I could see him. I don't just mean, like,
you know, eight less catches. I just think he had
a bit of a breakout season that will be tough
to duplicate for him. I wouldn't be surprised, you know,
not by necessarily a fault of his own that the
production comes down by a third. Perhaps not really a

(43:36):
fan of human interest stories, are you? Mark Well. I
opened by saying I wasn't happy to pitch it, but
nor am I a pr agency here, just like you know,
throwing out feel good stories for everyone. I don't see it.
I mean, he's a young player who looked at dynamic
last year and he's still the best receiver on that
team until until I see someone else step up. They
just had no one else really step up last year.

(43:58):
I just think that with Rugs in there and others,
that you would want that to happen if you were
Grood and wouldn't you would you wanted to be based
the entire passing game based around your running backs in
your tight end. I don't know. I'll go with I
don't know if I want to make how broad I
want to make it. Let's start here, Ryan Tannehill, I

(44:23):
just got out of trouble with Titans Nation. I thought
we had a clean break. So don't take this as
an attack on your organization. You obviously made the right
decision giving up on Marcus Mariotta. I don't think you
made the right decision turning around and giving Ryan Tannehill
off twelve or thirteen games a four year, hundred and
eighteen million dollar deal um and when you look at

(44:45):
the money, it's almost thirty million per season. Sixty two
million and guarantees he's he's gonna be on the books
no matter what, probably for years with this team. And
you know that's he's a top ten guy now in
terms of being paid as a quarterback, and that will
be all. That would be great if if he's still
the guy he was in twenty nineteen. And I'm not

(45:07):
even gonna say, I'm not even point to Greg and
feel free to tag team this one with me. I'm
not even gonna point to the playoffs and back look,
he was already regressing in January, because I understand the
playoffs are a different beast and and Derrick Henry was
running like crazy over everybody. So they played a different
type of um game plan on some level. But I
just don't think it was sustainable. He's thirty two years old,

(45:30):
and if you look at the history of our league,
guys that don't break out within the first three years
or so, if they do have a big season, they
usually do come back to the to their old former
self more times than not. Uh maybe Towne Hills an outlier,
but last year he was fifth in passing v v o,
a first in yards per attempt UM playing in an

(45:53):
Arthur Smith offense that was perfectly suited and everything kind
of came together where Henry was a monster, the offensive
line was great. Tannehill was playing with confidence, and I
just don't know if we can expect that again. And
the worst case scenario is that he really kind of
becomes that Miami guy again, and then what does Tennessee
do They have a boondoggle on their hands at QB

(46:17):
good use a boon doggar No. I totally agree with
everything you said, and I think two things can be true,
that Dan, you'd be right about this, and that Tannehill'll
be fine, that he'll be like a top I think
that's what the Titans should hope for. He There's no
way he's gonna produce like that again. I mean he was.
He was one of the three years I would put
him in the top five quarterbacks in the NFL last

(46:38):
year for for when he played, and I would include
in that because he was efficient and he did his
job what what they asked him to do in the playoffs. Um,
but I agree. He kind of reminds me a little
bit of Alex Smith, who who had his struggles, kind
of had his breakout with hard Bough and then he
settled into a nice solid starter career, and I think

(46:58):
that's what you wanted to tighten. But I do think
that's a pretty big step, a big, pretty big come
down of where he was a year ago. I'll just uh,
I wasn't gonna do it, but I'll throw it Derrick
Henry with this too. Okay, that's what I was thinking,
Arthur Smith and Derrick Henry and just go with it.
I think it's a lot to ask that that offense
to repeat at that level again. And even if you

(47:21):
look at Henry how kind of he was a lot
um slower in terms of his production in the first
half of last season versus the second. I just think
it's hard to build an offense we're that efficient. I mean,
their play action numbers were like among the best in
NFL history. Uh and uh. I think it's tough to win,
to win that way, and so I expect them both

(47:41):
to come down a little bit. Yeah. I mean, Titans Nation,
don't come after us. It's just it's just football analysis.
It's not personal. I would imagine some of those guys
would agree though, right. I mean, they were at peak
levels down the stretch. And if you think you're gonna
get the playoff version of the Titans out of the gate,
I mean off and just doesn't typically do that from

(48:02):
year to year. You're gonna need to get better in
other ways. Their defense, you know, primary among them. Alright, Greg,
let's do another round. Oh. I thought that was like
you just want this is how one last year? Um,
I you know who I pick. I would look at.
I look at Zadarius Smith and Preston Smith who were
awesome for the Packers last year and produced twenty five

(48:22):
and a half sacks. Um, I see that coming down,
and I'll throw another guy in there. And this is
not trying to be on brand here, but the idea
that Shack Barrett's gonna go out and have nineteen and
a half sacks. We again again, Like I if my
predictions are like a year too early. I was telling
you that all last year and he proved me wrong.

(48:43):
But I just think he's a he's a good player.
But I mean it's gonna mark if you're gonna come
after Shack Barrett for another season and now we're gonna
have to track it for another season. Let's put more
numbers to this because it would be a come down
season if he doesn't have twenty sacks this year, potentially,
what do you think, I'm not doing this at eighteen, Like,

(49:04):
that's not really why are we doing this? What do
you what do you predict? What is going to s
Yeah down, you can say that's not a come down,
but that's like that's like his production from here again
that even on the big tag. Again, I'm not saying
that he's it's a safe not saying this is a

(49:24):
wash that the players shouldn't have been resigned a big problem.
It just twelve from nineteen and a half is a
pretty clear regression. No, it's kind of like Mahomes. Lat
picking Mahomes last year. I think it's fair. It's it's
a natural pick because he had like eighteen quarterbacks, he
had over fifty hurries. He was probably the most consistent
pass rush for the entire NFL. So that is a
come down. I would disagree on Zadarius smith Man. I

(49:45):
love that guy, and Preston Smith's fine. I said the
combination of the two, well, I just think you're not
going to get that out of Preston Smith didn't have
I think he was about what you would expect last year.
He wasn't A sensations and Darius Smith I think was
just unreal, and you're right, maybe he can't keep up
that production. To me, is that Arias Smith. You know,
I think our our buddy Bob mcginney had on the

(50:08):
show that he's, you know, arguably the best free agent,
you know, one of the best free agent signings in
NFL history, and I and it went, you know, for
one year, and you went through the list, and I
would say that's true. Shack Barrett is too. I mean,
the the productions that Arias Smith, that was unreal. I'll
stay away from an obvious candidate here because I did

(50:30):
the same thing with Patrick Mahomes last year. So I
don't feel the need to go into why I don't
think Lamar Jackson will do what he did last year,
because he probably won't, because again, it's the Merino eight
four Coral area where sometimes you just have such a special,
magical season that you just never match it again on
some level, even if you stay a great player, which
is kind of what I expect with Lamar Jackson. So

(50:52):
I'll instead go with Michael Thomas of Saints. I will
say that Michael Thomas, there's no reason why you would
think he is going from a from a physical standpoint
fall off and not be the same guy he was
a monster. But I think the Saints are are gonna
continue to transition on offense and a year after they

(51:13):
targeted UH Thomas thirty three percent of the time. Last
year when they dropped back the path, one third of
the time, the throw was going to Michael Thomas. And
it was okay because Michael Thomas a d eight five targets.
He caught almost of the balls thrown his way. I mean,

(51:33):
the guy was marvelous and he had a hundred forty
nine records and he you know, he took fate and
UH into his own hands and got risky by breaking
that record that we're not going to talk about. But
I just think and I didn't. I'm not gonna bring
up Drew Brees either, because I think his gradual decline
has been overstated. UH. In general, I think Breeze was

(51:56):
still excellent last year for the most part at forty
years old, but with Taysom Hill in the mix there,
I do I agree that McVeigh are that Peyton is
going to continue to be cute and try to have
the offense operating in that way um with breeze off
the field occasionally. I also think that they're gonna be

(52:17):
a very run heavy team. And Emmanuel Sanders, which I
thought was the maybe the low key the best signing
team had in the offseason, He's gonna be so great
for them. He's gonna be a perfect fit. And I
think he could even end up flirting with a thousand
yards and like seven to ten touchdowns if he's healthy,
and that will just take some targets away from Michael Thomas.

(52:37):
So I don't think he's gonna have if you if
if if Sanders says that type of season. The Saints
are in great shape, but fantasy owners and Michael Thomas
might feel the sting a little bit. So this was
almost a little bit of a fantasy preview. Uh, come
down and you know it all. It was laid out
beautifully and and um with good context. But this is

(52:59):
the type of fighterade. You know that Michael Thomas feels
himself on. You know, no one is more aware the slightest,
slightest bit of doubt. He can you believe that though
of their passes. That's why I agree with you. I
think that do you want to know what the record
is by the factor there the record mark. I'll ask

(53:20):
you this one. I'll give you. I'll give you a hint.
The record is two hundred and eight targets in one
season and it was set by an NFC westwide receiver
in NT seven. Mm hmm. I was gonna Rice, right,
I was gonna go Jerry Rice until until you give

(53:42):
you another hint. Seven. You know, I'd like to bring
it back a former New York Jet Isaac Bruce, Rob Moore,
great tech mobile player two by the way back in
the day. Um, let's do a couple more. All right,

(54:06):
I'll do it quick. I know we got this all
hands meeting, you know, all NFL meeting on zoom. We
gotta get to Uh you didn't go Lamar, but I
am gonna go, mark ingram As as kind of a
representative of the entire red the Ravens rushing attack, because
I just I think what they did was so historic. Um.

(54:26):
They ran to the ball at a higher rate than
any team, you know since the Tim Tebow Broncos. They
they you know, they got more yards than any team
on the ground than any team in NFL history. They
had the highest fourth down rate in NFL history. It's
just like they're such a unique offense, and they add
Gus Edwards there, who can take away some Ingram's shine.
But I also think as as a group, Lamar is

(54:49):
like the most unique weapon there is in the NFL.
But I don't think the rushing attack can be as
dynamic as a whole. How could it be. It's just
it's asking too much. And I know they're gonna, you know,
develop things, but I think that will be maybe leaning
on the passing game a little more, changing things up
a little bit because there's only so many different kinds

(55:11):
of runs Greg Roman can come with. And I think
defenses will be a little more ready than they were
a year ago. And I and I hope that mark
Ingram has three thousand yards. But I mean I I
could see J K. Dobbins starting by mid season, if
not earlier two. I mean they went out and invested
a lot in that position. I'll give you a quick
one at wide receiver. I we all love DeAndre Hopkins,

(55:31):
but I could see his production a hundred and four
catches a year ago, thousand plus yards, seven touchdowns. I
think he's a perfect fit for them. But they run
a lot of four wide receiver. They'll use Kenyan Kenyan
Drake to catch a ton of passes. I could see
him being perfect for the team. But the numbers where
you talk about Michael Thomas. They were so reliant on
Hopkins in Houston year after year that and maybe in

(55:52):
a good way for him, it will be a little
bit different in Arizona out of the gate, especially and
after a weird offseason where he's barely worked with the attack.
His numbers that's not going that's games and four catches eleven.
You know, his numbers weren't eye popping last year. And

(56:13):
I think I'll disagree with you on that one, Mark.
I think he's gonna have a ton of targets still
even with their offensive set up, and I bet he
eclipses those numbers if he stays healthy. How it goes,
let's track that all right. That's good. Come down players. See,
we didn't bury anybody. We didn't say well, Tannehill kind
of took some heat there, but not really. We're saying cold,

(56:35):
be a top you know, an above average starter. What
more do you want? Can I be honest with you,
I think he might be one of the busts. Well,
now you've dropped a bit of a bottom on him.
But that's I kind of I guess I should have
been more clear in that. I just I don't know.
I've seen it. You've seen guys that come out of

(56:57):
nowhere in a perfect setup and have that nice year
and then revert. We'll see. I wish the best of
luck Ball Lauren, town of Hill, his wonderful wife, the
whole town of Hill clan has my support. I just
you know, let's that's what we do here, chop it up.

(57:18):
Football talk, all right, One more show this week, actually
two more shows this week. This is fun. We will
be back on Friday with a newser show where we
just get you caught up to date with what's happening
in the league, and then also will be uh back
on NFL Network on Saturday and on the digital side

(57:39):
of things Friday. It's the same show. So we're taping
a show on Friday, the return of the Around the
NFL broadcast that will air on NFL dot Com and
on YouTube on Friday and then will re air on
Saturday morning on the network. So we got a lot
of content coming your way that the trademark has left
the station. I know we're in very uncertain times and

(57:59):
you don't know what's coming next. But as far as
our workflow is concerned, the train has left the station.
No going back to the station. UM, don't even remember
what it looked like at this point. Don't feel like
we spent a lot of time there. We're not. We're
moving all right. Let's let's head out of here. Happy
birthday to the beautiful Jack Carson Hands as he turned

(58:22):
six today. And uh, this is Dan hands Is signing
off four the old Boss White Storm a mailman. I
don't know, Vicky Hollywood Still Friday,