Day 1 Combine Standouts and Players to Watch with Nate Tice and Nick Shook

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Nick Shook to give you their standouts from Day 1 of the NFL Scouting Combine. Gregg and Nick talk about players like CJ West (02:25), Shemar Stewart (05:10), James Pearce Jr. (10:00), Jihaad Campbell (15:35) and more! Plus, the guys give you the latest update on Matthew Stafford's future with the Rams (21:05). After the break, Yahoo! Sports' Nate Tice joins the show to talk about players to watch as the NFL Combine rolls on through the weekend starting with the tight ends (32:30), followed by the defensive backs (38:45), the wide receivers (42:00) and running backs (50:20). 

Note: time codes approximate. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to NFL Daily, where we've got a little Thursday
night football from Lucas Oil Stadium. Yeah, the game wasn't played,
but we had football players doing things that matter for
the NFL. Yes, it feels like we're back on a
night recap. I got Nick Schuk, who was in the
stadium the whole day, and he's made it back to

(00:28):
his hotel room where he's broadcasting from a tiny microphone
that we ordered on Amazon twenty four hours ago so
he could join us.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Thank you, Nick Schuk, Thank you for getting that set here.
Poorly lit in this hotel room, but we're making it happen.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yeah, I'm really excited. Let's just recap this day later
in the show. Also, I'm gonna play a conversation I
had with Nate Tice looking ahead to the next three days,
who we're kind of looking at throughout the rest of
the combine. But you know, we've already got results to
talk about. Shogogy by the way, Like, what is it
like there in the stadium, Like what are you are

(01:04):
you like a stopwatch guy?

Speaker 3 (01:05):
What are you doing there for seven hours?

Speaker 2 (01:07):
I'm not a stopwatch guy? I go off the official results.
I stood up in the suite. What I really do
is watch the drills and take notes on every rep
of every player because it allows me to filter through.
And then some guys pop over time. You know, Tristan
Wurf's pops over time, the Cam Jurgens pops just insially
with the eye tests being there and seeing all the
reps and I'm taking notes and I'm putting together the
All Combined Team. And if you go back in history,

(01:29):
I've nailed some guys that people weren't paying attention to.
So check it out when it comes out next week.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
Yeah, I love.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
All Combined Team is one of the best pieces of
content we do on NFL dot Com all year. One
of the signature shook pieces. Well, then you should get going.
I mean it'd be silly if I did. Let's hear, like,
give me a standout to start with.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
All right, So tonight was defensive linemen, edge rushers, and linebackers,
and I felt, as many have said about this draft class,
the depth is in the defensive line and specifically the
the defensive tackle. We didn't get a lot of the
guys that you've heard their names because they weren't participating.
He had the two guys from Michigan. He had Walter
Nolan from Ole, miss None of those guys participated, so
we had to find some other guys, and we found

(02:11):
some other guys. My honorable mentions list for this group
is like nine players long, because I had a really
hard time choosing between them. But the two guys I
chose that will end up on the all combined team.

Speaker 4 (02:22):
Number one CJ.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
West from Indiana, who had a really good testing session.
He ran a four nine to five forty with a
one point seventy three second ten yard split, which is
very good. At three hundred and sixteen pounds, he jumped
thirty three inches. The guy's kind of an athletic freak,
and then he ran through his drills and just looked
powerful within his framework. He was controlled, he was strong.
I really liked what I saw and I could see

(02:43):
him making a difference.

Speaker 4 (02:45):
At the next level.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
The other guy in that group Tyler Williams from Ohio State, which,
as somebody who follows Ohio State passionately, is a lifelong
Ohio State fan. I knew that he was going to
come here and make a difference. I just needed to
be proven to me, and he did it in every
single drill. He had the best workout I think of
any interior defensive lineman out there. Just every rep of
every drill. You just saw it over and over again.
And eventually my notes they go from like great rep,

(03:06):
fantastic rep. You know, this is why it was good,
that type of thing. As I'm typing them along, I
get halfway through it, I'm like, God, Tyleak's the real deal.
This is exactly what I saw from him in college,
and he's crushing it. I think he did a fantastic
job tonight.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
You mentioned with Wes there, he was only the eighth
or ninth player ever at his weight to run that
fast of forty under five seconds.

Speaker 3 (03:31):
And this is why I love having you there.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
You're in the stadium because you know, you could do
the relative athletics scores and we will talk about that.
That's all really important, That's what the combine's all about.
But you're watching all the drills. I really like that.
Where do you think these two guys, if they helped themselves,
might fit in, Because you're right, a lot of the
biggest names, it was kind of a story at every
position didn't work out today. You know, Darius Alexander did

(03:56):
at the defensive tackle position, had a fast ten yard split.
Don't think he heard himself at all today, had a solidate.
Where do you think these two guys might fit in?

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, that's usually where I struggle, because you know, the
draft is kind of a crap shoot. But I think
about teams that need help stopping the run and need
help in the interior. And one of the first teams
that came to mind, even if you look at their
roster wise they do have a lot of pending free
agents is the Bengals because they got a lot weaker
up front there with the losses that they had.

Speaker 3 (04:19):
Round wise, What do you think too.

Speaker 4 (04:21):
I think Tyler.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
I think Lance had him going as high as thirty first.
A lot of people have him in the second round.
I could see him sneaking into the back end of
the first round. It's there are gonna be a lot
of interior linemen that go in front of him, the
guys I just mentioned before, so it might be kind
of hard to crack that.

Speaker 4 (04:35):
But if anything, he's a day too. Guy West is the.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
One where I'm going to have a hard time putting
my finger on because he played at Kent State. Prior
to Indian to Go flashes Alma matern Baby. But at
the same time, I think that there could be a
little bit of skepticism even though he tested really well today.
So I think he's a Round two three guy at
the top. He's not a Round one guy and could
end up being later. But I really liked his workout.

Speaker 5 (04:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
I was texting with someone about him and they said,
he's the he's a classic. Okay, let's go back and
watch a little more tape. Yes, exactly after this that
he grabbed our attention. All Right, we've already spent four
minutes and we haven't gotten to Shamar Stewart. I know
you're starting like the way that the day actually started
with defensive tackles, But to me, this is one of

(05:19):
those Shamar Stewart blew up the combine, one of those
combine performances from top to bottom, the Texas A and
M project six five, two hundred and sixty seven pounds.
He goes absolutely crazy in terms of his ten yard split,
his vertical leap goes forty inches, one hundred and thirty

(05:41):
one For the broad jump, you line it all up
and he basically had miles Garrett's workout. I mentioned the
relative Athletics score, which is something that's out there that
they do great work. Math bomb on Blue Sky check
him out of one eighteen hundred and two defense of
ends to work out at the Combine since nineteen eighty seven,

(06:03):
he came in third. I think it was Mario Williams
and Miles Garrett that are at the top two, So
that says a lot. What was like seeing that in person?
What do you think about him also as a player
after you talk.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
About the workout, Well, that's the funny thing is that
a lot of the testing is done off to the.

Speaker 4 (06:19):
Side while the other drills are going on.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
So you might catch avert, but you don't know if
your focus isn't on it unless you just happen to
look up and see it out there in the distance,
or you hear the crowd pop, you see the forty
and in the stadium it's quiet when they're running the forties,
and every once in a while somebody rips off a
time that makes everybody go ooh and I and he
was one of them. But the downside is is he
doesn't do the drills, so it just ends right there

(06:41):
and you're left wondering. Okay, and that's really the combine
process for me. Obviously, if you're measurables, and that helps
you compare to past prospects and project how well they
could play at the next level. But for me, I
need to marry that with the drills. And so when
I don't see a guy on the field doing the drills,
it feels like an incomplete review. Testing off the charts,
matching historically, sounds like he's got a significant potential. But

(07:04):
now you have to go back and look at the
tape because you didn't see the drills. Right, of course,
everybody's gonna go and the tape.

Speaker 3 (07:07):
The tape wasn't good. I mean again, four and a
half sacks.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
Depending on who you talk to, you can see the
promise there, but he definitely didn't show the sort of explosion.
And it's the type of draft prospect that we end
up talking a lot about. So this will be our
first Samar Stewart conversation again. One five to eight ten
yard split, which is just outrageous exercize, It's it's crazy
in a four or five ninety four and a half

(07:32):
sacks doesn't tell the whole story.

Speaker 3 (07:34):
Talking to more people like the tape isn't great.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
He looks like a guy who just doesn't know really
how to play football yet, And there's been guys like this.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
Rashan Gary is one that.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
Obviously, Javon Walker a couple of years ago is in
that category.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
But the ones I've spoken to.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
And people that I trust too like his tape's rougher
that he has even more to go. So it is
going to be an incredible projection. But Jeremiah had him
in his top twenty five coming into this week. I
think he was twenty first. That's already expecting him to
test well. But now you know, you got Buger McFarlane
saying he might go number one overall and people thinking, okay,

(08:16):
this might get him into the top ten. So he'll
be a fascinating conversation where he's just crazy athletic, which
you saw today, but the tape doesn't really match up.
Can you be patient enough? I don't know if you
have a gut feeling on him off the bat or
you gotta wait.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Well, I mean, if you want to comp with the
Mario Williams career. Mario Williams was the shocking pick that
went ahead of Reggie Bush when everybody thought Reggie Bush
was a slam dump in that draft, and over the
course of his career he had a solid career, but
he never quite lived up to the initial expectation that
comes with being a number one overall pick. It's hard
to hold another player to that standard of that expectation.
And I also think that miss is pretty good. Yeah,

(08:53):
and the situation at Texas A and M it's hard
to evaluate because they had so much turnover. You know,
he ends his career with Mike Elko as the head coach.
Brier was Jim both Saure. It was a program that
had just across the board not lived up to expectation.
They put together legendary recruiting classes and did not produce.
So I don't want to hold that much against him.
Having said that, spending a top five pick on a
player with that potential athletically, but the lack of proof

(09:13):
on tape is a massive risk.

Speaker 4 (09:15):
So it's gonna take.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Somebody with the big stones to go up there and
do that if they feel that confidently about him. This
is also why we have pro days and everything else.
So the process is not done.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, tonight, we'll just focus on on the combine stuff.
Although I will say if Mario Williams went seventh, that
was a good pick.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
He had a good career.

Speaker 4 (09:32):
Yeah, he was a good player, just first in that job.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
He just was a bowl. It was just a bold
number one overall pick. For instance, he's Trevon Walker is
not on pace to have as good a career nearly
as Mario Willims.

Speaker 5 (09:45):
And to give me.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
Another students, and yes it's the pick, give me another standout,
all right.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
So we're gonna go away from the defensive interiors since
we already did that, We'll go to edge. Interesting group
because a lot of different archetypes. James Pierce laid it
out with a four four seven forty that immediately grabbed
the attention one five to six split, and that's kind
of what put him on everybody's radar a little on.
Even in the drills, I will say started well, handled

(10:12):
the bag drill, well, wave drill.

Speaker 4 (10:14):
Not as good.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
You get into some of the later stuff and you're like, Okay,
I can see it. I can see it as a
guy who is going to be an edge rusher who
has the athleticism to drop back and covered occasional. If
you're gonna disguy's blitz is that type of thing, send
a sim pressure, that sort of thing, But when it
came to athleticism and body control, he passes flying colors.
In my opinion, he looked like the guy that you
know fits in there. The comp is going to be

(10:36):
hard because he doesn't quite fit body wise to some
of the guys that like a lot of people are
probably gonna compare it to Brian Burns. He's not quite
as long as him. But if you're looking for a
similar archetype, I guess that's your fit.

Speaker 4 (10:48):
But he's He's somebody who define stood out to me.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
He'll end up on the team as well, and then
landon Jackson, who's a lot different. But the tape really
I love the tape. His physicality, the way he's able
to from Arkansas, yes, from Arkansas, who he's able to
play through blocks and make tackles, that type of thing,
I thought he crushed it. Athleticism on full display, fluids,
smooth in motion, just look like a natural, and a
lot of these drills. I'm really excited to see what

(11:11):
happens with his career, just because he's somebody who got
on my radar with his drills. Tonight, and I would
love to see if he lands in the right spot,
if he can.

Speaker 5 (11:19):
Make a difference.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Well, it's funny because the drills more correlate to the football,
and Pierce is similar, I think to Schmar Stewart, and
I think there's a lot of guys in this draft
where a lot of mock draft love, a lot of
good measurable stuff, not necessarily great tape. You hear some
frustration from Pierce that you're expecting this explosiveness and it

(11:43):
doesn't totally show up on tape. His vertical actually was bad. Yeah,
it was thirty one inch lego, straight up bad. So
that's interesting because most of the other numbers, and you
said the drills look good too, most of the other
numbers were great, and he was still on the higher
end of the relative athletics score, but not as crazy
complete an athlete as land and Jackson, for instance, and.

Speaker 4 (12:05):
Not as complete a workout on the field either.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Really okay, and yeah, the vertical for Landon Jackson actually
was even higher than Jamar Stewart. He went forty and
a half inches, which is just crazy for a guy
that big kind of seen as like a second round
type of pick. But helped himself. Today, give me someone
else that you liked that there too, We'll.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
Move to linebackers. Actually know it will stay on edge
real quick, because there was a guy who almost made
my team and I had to end up putting in
monounorable mentions. David Walker from Central Arkansas. Central Arkansas. So
this guy lower ceiling in terms of pure physical ability
and potential, Like you can see the limitations and why
he ended up at a Central Arkansas instead of like
a major power for school. But at the same time,

(12:46):
he went through every drill with polish of a guy
who's played a lot of football and understands his body
and how to use it. It wasn't until like his last
rep that he even made a mistake. Every other drill
prior was just like a fundamentally sound, very controlled rep
where I just kept writing in my notes as I
went through the list, I was like, God, there's another
good ref of him. Gouh, there's another good ref of him.
Like he's, like I said, lower ceiling player in terms

(13:08):
of physical potential, but just was so sound that he
landed on my radar. I had a ton of honorable
mentions with this group as well. I thought Jordan Birch
from Oregon had a pretty good day. Jack Sawyer, for
the most part, had a very good day. You can
tell very much that he is the edge guy that
he played at Ohio.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
One note on him, though, he was in the third
percentile for his arm length, which it's like it's arm length.
But I forget who the other comps were, but they
only found like two players that even had reasonable NFL
careers yep, with that short arm. So that's it's funny,
and it's a theme of this draft if you're just
starting to catch up. And I'm including myself in that,

(13:45):
there are so many different opinions on all these guys.
Jack Sawyer is a guy who some people have close
to the first round. Other people will think he's a
Day three prospect.

Speaker 4 (13:53):
I wouldn't spend a first round pick on him.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
Right, No, But I'm saying like some people think like
he's barely barely draftable. I think some of these guys
were talking about Pierce Shamar Stewart. There's going to be
huge ranges of guys. What before we leave the lineman,
I did want to mention Donovan at Zaraku of Boston
College because I think he was a guy that came
in people wondering how the athleticism would be because his

(14:15):
tape is quite good and he really seemed to check
off boxes. Was in the eightieth percentile for relative athletics score,
and so he's someone where it's like, maybe there's questions
because the tape is good, and he showed that that
he's a good enough.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
His drills were good too. He was in my honorable Mentions.
I want to fit him into there as well. It
wasn't great one hundred percent consistent, but you could see it.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
That's great.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
And Derek Harmon, the interior guy from Oregon, only ran
the forty kind of a borderline first rounder, but he
did run the forty fast. And then Princely Uma Mayan,
what do you think about him?

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Him and Harmon actually had similar workouts and when it
came to the drills, because there were reps where you're like, oh,
it's there, like I totally see it there, but it
was just inconsistent. It was sloppy reps here and there,
it was stubbles. It was just a lack of like
control in some of these situations that you want to
see in these on field drills. So I left a
little bit of an uneven feeling about both of them,
but I see the upside, especially with Princely when it

(15:08):
comes to the physical traits.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yeah, he looked like a little stiff, but a big vertical,
a big broad and a guy who looks like he
could be a real pass rusher, like a situational I mean,
he's got some juice on tape, and so I was
curious how he would do. All right, let's get to
the linebackers. I think I know where you're going with

(15:30):
at least one of your offe.

Speaker 4 (15:31):
Yeah, it's weird group.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
You know, looking back last year, we had Edge Cooper
in that group, and like he was one of those
guys that you compare it with the tape and you
could see in the workout where I was like, he's
going to make a difference.

Speaker 3 (15:41):
And he did.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
That guy didn't really exist in this group. The best guy,
I'm surprised. The best guy I found was Giad Campbell
from Jihad. Campbell from Alabama. I thought, you know, he
ran a four or five to two, ten to seven
broad jump and he lived up to the reputation of
guys who rely on speed. Aflows isn't to make their plays.
He also was a guy who played different spots because

(16:04):
Alabama was so deep at edge with guys like Dallas Turner.
So he's got experience doing both, which is interesting to
me because I think it's valuable as we see the
edge defender kind of morph into this ambiguous, do both
things type of role and how he could fit into
teams that might need to address both positions. Because he
looked really good in coverage. He had soft hands, he
looked like a natural back there. Yeah, but he's also

(16:24):
a guy who has experienced, you know, playing edge. In fact,
he stuck around after everybody was done and did an
extra bag drill as an edge rusher, just to kind
of show the scouts, look, I'm capable of this as well.
So he had the best workout of that group. But
a lot of these linebackers were really hard to separate.
I felt like I was watching a lot of the
same reps from a lot of these guys.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
Okay, but that's why we got shook in the building
to tell us gidd Campbell's staying late and he's doing.

Speaker 3 (16:48):
The edge rusher.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
I from my vantage boy on the couch watching on TV,
I thought he had a great day, and because maybe
it's a position where he's so clearly the best off
ball linebacker. I mean, his his athletic numbers were pretty
crazy for his weight to run a four or five
to two and all the other athletic testing scores were
eighty five ninety percent, and he has really good tape.

Speaker 3 (17:13):
Man.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
I know teams don't want to draft three down linebackers
too early, so he's he's a first round pick.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
We'll see how high he goes.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
But the fact that he's so clearly the best that
his position this year probably is gonna help him and
so so to me, he felt like one of the
biggest winners from my advantage because I.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Had to do team fits and stuff with this, and
the first team I thought about was the Browns because
they don't they may not have Jok again based on
his net issue, and if you need a guy who
can kind of be a rusher but also is rangy
and athletic to cover a lot of space like Jok
has done for the Browns, it's like the perfect fit.
It's just that where they're picking and what they need,
he's not going to be there. DJ's got him as
his twelve best prospect in top fifty right now, and

(17:52):
I toltally saw why.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
Okay, I love that LSU is Braden Swinson. By the way,
in eddres Scher, I just thought I like the way
he was moving than around.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
I mean, no scout, but I think.

Speaker 4 (18:02):
He landed in some of my notes.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
It's funny because like a lot of these guys, it's
kind of varying on notes. And then Campbell was like
halfway through, I was like, Okay, he's definitely making the team.
Like he's definitely gonna be on the list. Now I
need to figure out the rest of these guys, and
a lot of them like Swinton, like I have one
here where he's like decent rep drop ball. There was
another player out there, last name Scourton, who was going
like a million miles an hour, just completely out of
control in a couple of the drills and had to

(18:24):
kind of tone it down. But it's funny because some
of those guys were just kind of up and down.
It was a little bit hard to separate a lot
of this group.

Speaker 1 (18:29):
Okay, so that there's a bunch of the winners, we
don't need to do losers from the combine. I guess
the combine slightly was a loser because of all these
guys who are now not testing, you know, some had injuries,
some just said it was a personal decision. Jalen Walker,
for instance, who's looking like he could be anywhere from
pick two to you know, he could be top ten,

(18:52):
more of an edge rusher, but also would have worked
out with the off ball linebackers like he didn't work out,
Mike Green, Michael Williams from George. A lot of high
potential picks did not work out. And then I guess
Abdul Carter kind of you know, a downside. The last
twenty four hours, we find out that he's got a
stress reaction, and his agent, Drew Rosenhaus says he's not

(19:15):
planning to undergo surgery, that he will work out at
his pro day, and Rosenhouse even said I'm confident he's
going to go number one. I'm like, wow, how is
this these meetings going with the Titans. I don't know,
because he was the odds on favorite to go number one,
but it's just a little not not what you want.
Obviously during combine week for the potential number one overall.

Speaker 4 (19:34):
Yeah, and you know, the stress reaction in the foot
that concerns me.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
I think about like past players or dealt with footagehes
and think about like Sammy Watkins and his foot is shoes,
Like it's something that I feel like you want to
get taken care of now, as opposed to you know,
letting it all right. Well we're just gonna move on
without it. It's not causing me any pain. Well, what
if he gets worse and then that causes concern with
teams in your draft stock falls?

Speaker 1 (19:53):
You know you want well, you want to do that
pro day. That's the thing is he wants to put
up some big numbers.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
Especial because he' off that shoulder injury that was plaguing
him throout the playoff.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, and then maybe you maybe you get it after that.
But that's that's just something we'll be tracking throughout the process.
Drew Rosenhaus, By the way, big winner uh on NFL
Daily because he stopped me outside of seat almost and
said he appreciated the one on one listen.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
And so uh oh that's going to stick with me.

Speaker 4 (20:18):
Look at that feather and Greg's cap.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
There we go, before we go, just a couple of
little not even little. They usually would be leading the
show with this a couple of items from the rest
of the league that the Chiefs plan to use the
franchise tag on Trey Smith. That was according to Ian Rappaport,
I am curious. You know they did tag and trade
l Jerius Snead last year, so Greg, it's possible.

Speaker 4 (20:42):
Give me my flowers. We did it on the tag primer.
I told you they.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yeah, you know, there's different opinions, and you were right.
And Trey Smith number two on my top one on one.
He will not make it to free agency. Neither will
t Higgins, who's number one. That's usually how these things go.
And then looks Matthew Stafford. I'd put him number one
if he was a if he was just a free agent.
That's how much quarterbacks matter. A lot lot going on

(21:10):
in the Stafford world dueling reports since we've last uh taped.
Ian Rappaport uh put it out there following up on
a report was originally from Jordan Schultz that Tom Brady,
the the owner minority owner of the Raiders, you met
with Stafford at this Montana ski resort some disagreement which

(21:31):
was hashed out at a Starbucks. You guys probably know about.
I mean we're here team rap Sheet all the way.
You know, uh, who was it? Danie O'Neal put out
the the nickname for for Schultz Air Jordan, but e
r r uh just based on the reporting. Hated the reporting,

(21:55):
uh from from that from that man during the Deshaun
Watson whole thing.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
Just a lot of rough stuff.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
But anyways, either way, these guys are meeting, the Raiders
are really pushing.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
I thought it was interesting.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
Vic Taffer from The Athletic also said the Raiders aren't
interested in Darnold at are all, which might inform.

Speaker 3 (22:13):
How interested they are in Stafford.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
So this thing is moving forward to the point where
you're like, wow, like something's gonna happen. But at the
eleventh hour, here we hear from rap Sheet and a
couple other places too with similar in Pete Schrager too
with a similar reporter that McVeigh and Stafford have talked
over the last twenty four hours and don't count out
the Rams from getting this done, and maybe the leverage

(22:36):
of it all and maybe they meet in the middle.
To me, it feels nick and I'll end my long
rant here that it's Raiders or Rams. I'd be kind
of stunned if the Giants end up getting this thing done,
and it's kind of gonna be up to Stafford on
some level, right Yeah, you.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Know, And I had this conversation with some people last night.
The fit doesn't make sense for the Raiders unless you're
Tom Brady, because Tom Brady knows one speed, which is win,
and I want to win now. But like, if you
look at that franchise, they're not just a quarterback away,
and you acquire Matt Stafford when you're a quarterback away,
can the quarterback change the picture dramatically? Absolutely, Jade Daniels

(23:14):
and Washington, But it doesn't feel like a slam dunk
that makes all the sense in the world type of fit.
Yet the pursuit is very strong, and it sounds like
we're close to that potentially happening. I also thought when
all this started that this is a bit of a
staring contest between Stafford and the Rams. You know, how
long are you know, how far are we going to
go before we figure things out, hash it out and
stay together. Also, the Rams don't have a backup plan

(23:36):
and they're in a much better position to contend right now.
Why would you just let him go? Via trade or
via that sort of situation than keep him. It just
doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. And
yet here we are.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
I think the backup plan is Aaron Rodgers and or
Jimmy Garoppolo for what that's worth. Frightening, Yeah, it's really fascinating.

Speaker 3 (23:56):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
And yet it's not just Stafford, it's Pete Carroll and
Stafford and a better front office. So they would be
trying to win right away. And we've seen teams turn
things around fast. You gave a perfect example in the Commanders. Now,
are you competing for a Super Bowl like the Rams
could potentially do? No, probably not, but you could be
winning games, and I think that's an attractive option.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
But winning yourself out of a draft position for your
successor there could be long term ramifications. I guess this
is what you tied yourself to when you hired Peek
Carol though.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
So I think the decision for Stafford and we'll see,
will be something to the effect of how much money
less do I take to play for the Rams. Like basically,
if I'm getting sixty from the Raiders and forty from
the Rams, I'm probably going, you know, like that's too
big of a gap to make up.

Speaker 3 (24:51):
I'm going to do this thing with the Raiders.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
If it's fifty three for the Raiders and I can
get the Rams to go up to forty five and
guarantee some money into year two, maybe that's close enough
for me and both sides are happy. We will see
you know, poor Eric, you know he's got to take
care of it his infant son. And we're going to
be on Stafford Emergency podcast watch Nick Chuck, thank you

(25:13):
very much. You will be on the coverage on NFL
dot Com doing this all combine team, taking notes in
the stadium all weekend.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
Good luck to you and stay healthy.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
The marathon has only begun, and I hope that I
don't have to get another plane with the flu like
I did when I left New Orleans.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
I hope that too, I had that same experience. Like
I said, we're going to talk to Nate Tye about
some players to watch for the next three days of
combine workouts.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
We'll do that right after the break.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
Okay, we are here with one of my favorite people
in the business, hell favorite people in the country.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
I'm not going to go international with him. It's Nate
Tice of Yahoo Sports.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Football three oh one check it out wherever you get
your podcasts.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
Is great to be with you, Dan, great to be here.

Speaker 5 (26:06):
Yeah, I'm sorry.

Speaker 6 (26:07):
I maybe have not a leader of the category of
countries that use the metric system. Mmmm so yeah, just
the United States, though I'm very happy to be on
the leader part.

Speaker 3 (26:15):
It's funny.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
So, okay, we we had, you know, the first workouts
of the combine. We're taping this before and we're gonna
do a preview of the rest of the week of
the skill positions and talk a little offensive line, little
defensive back. But I gotta be honest, like when we
did that, when we did the episode I did with
Tom Peli Sarah talking about like my top one oh one.

(26:37):
We had done that a few years ago, and I
almost wanted, I don't know what it says about me.
I wanted some Nate Tice criticism. I want the people
closest to me to tell me where I'm wrong. Also,
I feel like the free agents were closer to equal footing.
I mean, you're much taller than me, but when we're
talking draft in a couple of minutes, it's like, I'm
I'm learning from you.

Speaker 3 (26:58):
But this way we can go back and forth.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
Little are there any are there anyone's on the free
agent list that you thought were too high, too low
that you want to make fun of me.

Speaker 6 (27:07):
No, I'm glad you had Milton Williams very high because
I feel like, one he's gonna get really he's gonna
get paid. So that also makes you look smart. I
like your DJ Reid ranking. You had him at twelve.
I actually really like that. I think he's kind of gone,
you know, under the radar. I think he could be
a very good number two for some NFL teams.

Speaker 3 (27:22):
Agree with you.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Oh you know, this is one where I'll send out
lists and I get some feedback and I'll be like, oh,
you're probably right.

Speaker 3 (27:28):
Like I'll move up DJ read a little bit. People
love them some DJ Read.

Speaker 5 (27:32):
He's good.

Speaker 6 (27:33):
I thought Justin Reid might be a little higher. You
have a twenty six I because he's just a very
sound safety and could do a lot a lot. Well
maybe not a star, but there's a lot of teams
right now that maybe struggle on the back end because
they got at a little too cute on the back end,
and Read kind of really like makes cleans things up
in a lot of people like his leadership.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
Ste He's also a rare dude that can thrive specials.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
He's thrived and literally changed and shored up two different
defensive systems and is young. That is a combination that
is very rarely in free agency. I think I'm scarred
because I always rank safeties really high on this list
because like, they matter, and I'm ranking guys based on
how they are at their position, and it happens, right
and they just get like six million dollars and they're

(28:17):
sitting out there for two weeks.

Speaker 3 (28:18):
But you're right, justin read's great.

Speaker 6 (28:19):
No, I liked a lot of these, Like it's hard
to because there's guys that like, okay, even right now
as I'm scrolling, like Josh Myers, you have a thirty seven.
It's center for the separate packers, and I think they're
very fine with moving on from them. They they might
get creative at that position, which is kind of something TVD.
They might move Zach tom over to center, like from
right tackle, which is something to keep an eye on.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
But the best tackle in the league that Will Anderson
faced apparently according to Will, which I thought was a
cool answer.

Speaker 6 (28:46):
That was a cool answer, I know, and It made
me go, man, I got to ask that question more,
who's the best player you've played against?

Speaker 5 (28:52):
It's such a stable question. But Kevin Clark that Yeah,
it was a great Kevin Clark question.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
No.

Speaker 6 (28:56):
With Myers, though, it's like, oh, yeah, he's thirty seven,
But yeah, that's actually fair, you know. I mean just
because based on this free agency class, like he is
an above average I actually might have him over Dolmen
after Dolmen, but it's some like I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
With Falcon Center, which is who's getting a lot of buzz,
It's like a guy who was the top of the
maybe interior.

Speaker 6 (29:14):
Line because I'm scarred by the twenty twenty three Falcons
so much in my hype for them, And then I
think Dolman's play was very inconsistent that year that I
still have that, and the last year he battle a
little bit of injuries and I like him, but it's like,
if you go between him and Myers, I'm kind of like, yeah,
either pick either one. I would have them a little
bit closer, I would say for that.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
In Bill Simmons parlance, no one lost more money on
their twenty twenty three Falcon stock than you.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
You kind of went all in. You did settle it
as it was sinking.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, you stuck with it and hard and now you
still stick with Arthur Smith just a little.

Speaker 6 (29:47):
I do, I'll do, yeah, Arthur Smith. And then I
was very excited to see a little Desmond Ritterer with
the Raiders. So yeah, that was the last remnants of
that team. Yeah, they were there. It's also I took
the last three chips I had, you know, after losing
most of it on the Falcons that year, and put
him on Drake May, which is like those.

Speaker 1 (30:05):
You've got a million wins, a wide portfolio.

Speaker 3 (30:08):
You almost podcast as much as me. Your one, your one,
you know.

Speaker 5 (30:13):
Oh no, it was no, it's one. I've learned a
lot from that one.

Speaker 6 (30:16):
It was like it taught me how to like, hey,
you know, you gotta be realistic about where you have.
You have these guys tiered, but I don't even going back,
Like it's kind of great because I can go chronologically,
but like Chase Young at forty one, I don't know,
like ranking wise, where I would even put him if
I were to do a top one hundred or one
hundred and one. But he's so interesting and I thought
your write up was perfect, like kind of like the
Clowney role, like he's just gonna be a mercenary. And

(30:38):
I can totally picture him in that role a year
after you were taking one two year deals and then
being that kind of I would say secondary rusher, but
part of a really good pass rush group.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
So I hope, I hope he gets a good year.
I don't know what the word is, smarter. I think
Clowney got better and better as he got older. I
always thought he was underrated, So to me, he has
a poor man's did that be in clowny? But and
he have that sort of career because I think there's
frustrations where he's going off script a little. He has

(31:07):
signed pretty big negative plays along with all that pocket pushing.
But a fun player to.

Speaker 5 (31:11):
One, Yeah no, and that's that was the Saint's kind
of as a whole.

Speaker 6 (31:14):
A lot of guys, especially on the back end then
you know, maybe a little indifferent to tackling and everything.
And I told you just before the show, but I
love that you're one.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
Oh.

Speaker 6 (31:22):
One was Nick Chubb because I just thought that was
a great shout out. But another guy I actually cares
DeMarcus Lawrence.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
One.

Speaker 6 (31:28):
I didn't realize he was thirty three, so that's maybe
on me out though maybe he was thirty one or thirty,
but it makes sense. He's been in the week since fourteen. Uh,
he's a guy too. I always thought he's a very
good run defender as well. But he's another guy that
can like could be a nice contributor for somebody on
a one year deal, like I think kind of people
because he got hurt, is kind of just he goes
kind of goes him in my.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Top twenty at first, and then I looked at the
history of guys off Liz Frank injuries that age, and
so I just bumpedhim down there. One of my favorite
players of the last ten years. I thought he was
so underrated for a long time, and then he was
properly right. People understood that he was like hull of
very good, one of the best Cowboys.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
In the last twenty years, the most consistent defense, and
so yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
He could end up having that Kalaeis Campbell like, oh wait,
he's still really good. Oh wait, he's still underpaid for
the next four or five years. So I hope I'm wrong.
They're one of my favorite plays, all right. I want
to get to the prospects the top fifty. So good,
let's get to the prospects. So let's go in chronological order. Okay,
Friday's the defensive backs in tight ends. We haven't talked
about the tight ends at all on the show. It's
a fascinating class and I'm going to use some of

(32:33):
you know, my friend Daniel Jeremiah's rankings. I haven't seen
your big board three point zero come out yet. I'm
looking forward to that. Okay, yes, his two point oh's
out and it's crazy. He's got two in the top ten,
Tyler Warren and Colston Lovely, and then another couple in
the top fifty. So that's a that's a tight end
heavy top fifty. He threw out the grand comparison in

(32:57):
the Tyler Ward. Now just looking at this week, kind
of what are you looking for from those two guys,
assuming they do work out.

Speaker 6 (33:04):
You know what's funny is I interviewed Tyler Tyler Warren
at the Super Bowl and you.

Speaker 5 (33:08):
Know who he I don't know.

Speaker 6 (33:10):
I can't remember if the question was who he compares
himself to or who he studies. And I think you'll
like the answer, Jeremy Shockey, Yeah, which I was like, Okay,
I love that answer, and then he said Kittle was
the other one.

Speaker 5 (33:21):
And that's where some comparisons too.

Speaker 3 (33:23):
Well.

Speaker 5 (33:24):
Obviously with tight ends, it's an athletic position.

Speaker 6 (33:26):
So you want these guys to test like freaks, and
then if they don't test like freaks at USO, I'll
go okay, we got to go back because they will.

Speaker 3 (33:32):
Loveland tests like a freak.

Speaker 6 (33:33):
Yeah, he can run, you know, he has some movement
ability a lot like Laporta. I actually even think he
like his film was even slightly better than laporter coming
out of college.

Speaker 5 (33:45):
Maybe the last year's philm.

Speaker 6 (33:47):
The one thing with the Michigan guys is they all
dropped off this year and it might be the post
Harbaugh hangover. It might be Ben Herbert, their strength coach
left and now he's with the Chargers. I actually got
to interview Harbor yesterday, but out he was my strength
coach at Wisconsin, Ben Herbert, so it's like, oh, I
actually know this guy, but.

Speaker 5 (34:01):
He's had a big impacts.

Speaker 6 (34:02):
So all those Michigan guys kind of took a step
back this year, and that's why everyone's trying to gauge.
It's like twenty twenty three was great, so loved one's
included with that, and that was poor quarterback play. He
went from going with a first rounder and JJ McCarthy
to insert quarterback name here that Michigan had this year.
But Lovelin is more of a receiving only tight end,
not a good blocker in line. I actually like him
though a lot, with a maybe a Shannan team that

(34:25):
actually the offense I want him with more than anyone
is probably the Seahawks, okay, because we're getting with Kubiak there.
I picture him as that kind of tight end. My
comparison for him has been Owned Daniels from the old
Texas tight end.

Speaker 5 (34:38):
Another badger, but I've.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
Ted on Jeremiah's lessened a little rich for this kind
of play.

Speaker 5 (34:42):
That's kind of profate when for tight ends.

Speaker 6 (34:44):
For me, if you can't, if I don't project you
in line, I can't bump you too high, I look
at you more in the twenties, and that's where I
kind of I've loved one.

Speaker 5 (34:51):
Maybe in that eighteen to twenty four range.

Speaker 6 (34:52):
I haven't solidified it yet, but who knows how you'll test,
But I still think that's more and more comfortable Warren
though I get he's a little older, but the thing
is too, is that he has potential to be a
true in line why tight end which are so hard
to find, and he's a good receiver any great yards
after the catch. That being top ten might be a
little rich, I might say more as top fifteen, but
still that's splitting hairs because he is that kind of talent.

Speaker 5 (35:15):
Yeah, there's other guys too.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
I mean you say that it's tough to put him
in the top fifteen or twenty, but like Brack Bowers
is quite an exception.

Speaker 3 (35:23):
But he is an exception.

Speaker 6 (35:24):
And this is something I'm I think coaches now are
better than ever of like mitigating maybe lesser blocking tight ends.

Speaker 5 (35:32):
Ben Johnson with Loveport is a great example.

Speaker 6 (35:34):
Or Kincaid with the Bills, don't Kincaid Like these guys
are now they have learned to kind of go like, hey,
let's keep what's not making block a defensive end.

Speaker 5 (35:41):
Let's do that.

Speaker 6 (35:42):
So maybe my stock where I usually bump a guy
down because they can't do that, it shouldn't They shouldn't get
as bumped down as much.

Speaker 5 (35:47):
They shouldn't get as much of a blemish.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
On them, and people shouldn't get bumped down as much
if they have a profile like Loveland, so Loveland from Michigan,
as you mentioned player, if they've put it on tape
a year before that they're coming out. It's much like
how I view my free agency list, like if that's
already out there and there's other factors that caused the

(36:10):
year before free and Scye, no matter, it's like, you know,
he can do it. He should get just as much credit.
If anything, he was younger at that point. If it's
out there, he can do it again. Right, I'm more
of a grade the guy when you've seen them play
their best, because it shows you can do it if
you can surround him and do the best thing.

Speaker 6 (36:25):
You want the greatest film to be the best film,
but you're supposed to great guys from their best and latest,
like you're supposed to.

Speaker 5 (36:31):
Look at both.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
And then Mason Taylor.

Speaker 5 (36:34):
Really like him.

Speaker 6 (36:35):
Yeah, I think Daniel had him as a top forty guy,
which is I'm going to have him kind of comparable,
Like he's gonna be easily in my top fifty.

Speaker 5 (36:41):
I really like it.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
In Arroyo, is there like anyone you're looking for this week?

Speaker 6 (36:44):
How they well both Royo is not going to work
out so which kind of a shame because I think
he would be kind of freaky. Numbers, Mason Taylor, I
want to see you know Gunner Helm from Texas as well.
You might have a big one too, But all those guys.
Also Harold Fannin from Bowling Green, who is just a
one of what have you watched him at all?

Speaker 3 (37:04):
Or noue? Yeah, I'm catching up, bro.

Speaker 5 (37:06):
So Fannin is so he let the country in receiving.

Speaker 6 (37:08):
That's tight end in the man. Numbers are crazy, they're insane.
And he runs like a duck like he is. He's
duck footed as they come, and he runs like that.
He catches everything he's He breaks the first tackle every
single time, and not just against the MAC, against Penn State,
against Texas, A and M. But I don't I like him,
but I have no idea what to make of him.

(37:29):
Like I I know he's not an inline guy. He
tries blocking though he's actually an okay blocker, but he's
not gonna be the biggest guy. So we'll see how
he runs too, because it's just like no, I think
that's what's worrying a lot of people.

Speaker 5 (37:40):
Is that he might not test really well even though.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
He's gonna run the forty like a duck.

Speaker 6 (37:45):
That's why I'm I have no idea, and that's what
I that's what I'm curious about. I think he's a
better athlete he's getting credit for because his body control.
But who knows. But that's what I think. That's why
people don't know what to do with him. But I'll
end up with him in my top fifty. But it's
just like, I don't even know what to do with him.
I but I've I've considered him a like an Alex
He's not a full back, but use him like Alcan

(38:05):
Gold or Kylie us Check where it's like you're doing
everything every which way. Not a fullback bite like that,
but just a true h tight end, you know, old
school that kind.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
Of needs to end up with like one of the
eighteen Shanahan core coaches, right.

Speaker 6 (38:18):
But now they're becoming all sem Payton like tree coaches
like that. One's kind of proliferating everywhere.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
Now it's a lot of it. Hell, he's got like
GM's over there, you know, Darren Moosey.

Speaker 5 (38:29):
With it, just like seven Champayton coaches now like, I
know that's the new.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
Tree defensive backs.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
They always fly, they're paired with the tight ends on Friday.
Are there any of the top fifty guys that you
think is especially important Will Johnson, he's eleventh from Jeremiah Michigan.
Like some questions about how how Hill tests he had
today Baron higher than I expected, kind of compared him
to to Brian Branch, Like that type of player going

(38:57):
that high he had him in his top ten is interesting.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
Who else are you looking at defensive backs?

Speaker 5 (39:03):
I'm glad he brought Will Johnson.

Speaker 6 (39:04):
Will Johnson was my player overall one in the mid
season and because I was Again he's a Michigan guy
where his twenty twenty three tape was great and then
early twenty twenty four it was kind of up and down,
but he battled injuries and now character stuff's coming out.
So like I even said this on our show, is
that he kind of has the trifecta of Combine Week.
So he's got clear his medicals, his interviews have to

(39:26):
go well, and then he has to test well. Because
some people are worried about his long speed. I cauld
believe some people were dropping him, so harshly. I'm not
gonna have him at one by still I'm going to
have him probably comfortably in my top ten because I
think his upside is.

Speaker 5 (39:38):
A true number one corner, which is so hard to find.
But he he's got to.

Speaker 6 (39:42):
Kind of prove a little bit to kind of get
back to that status, I think in the eyes a
lot of people.

Speaker 5 (39:46):
But this is kind of a fun class. I mean, Sean.

Speaker 6 (39:50):
Ravel from East Carolina, but he's not gonna do anything,
but his medicals have to clear through.

Speaker 5 (39:54):
And of course Travis Hunter, which is who's star of
all stars.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
You since the.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
Maybe it's just Jeremiah and Andrew Berry, the Browns general manager.
But I just have this feeling as we get closer
to the draft that more people are gonna think of
him as.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
A wide receiver because he's so good at that position.

Speaker 6 (40:19):
Even Matt Harmon yesterday was just like, are we sure
he's not a full time receiver because his skill his
ball skills are rare, like truly rare.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
It's just if I'm evaluating it's more reliable. Cornerbacks are
so hard to evaluate. But I guess he's not. You're
pretty sure about it.

Speaker 6 (40:36):
Yeah, No, he's he's gonna be player one because even
if he was just a corner, he's number one player on.

Speaker 3 (40:41):
The board because its size though.

Speaker 6 (40:42):
That's and that's what we're pretty bigs me at receiver too,
is like I think of how many top ten.

Speaker 5 (40:48):
Receivers have been some.

Speaker 6 (40:51):
DeVonta Smith, and what's happened with Wattle and Smith that
you're getting hurt. It's like and again DeVante's I love
Toante Smith, but he's a high end two, you know.
And and but those guys like that's what worries me
too about the reps is if people are like, oh,
we're doing both tel well and that's how he moves,
like and Odell was outside the top ten, he was

(41:12):
yeah yeah, but what happened to Odell got hurt and
so him playing both ways, that is what scared me.
Where people are getting a little ahead of themselves. Is
that like when you're that when you're one eighty five,
like weights matter, and like just like we talked about this,
I know you get on me sometimes about it, but
it really does. Like over time, that's going to add up.

(41:33):
Those hits add up, those reps add up.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
So at that point I was trying to like tackle,
running backs even exactly.

Speaker 6 (41:39):
But then all of a sudden, you're a receiver getting shot,
battling press. You know, you're not just taking a rest
out there, You're like working on those running another go.
And it's not college goes where it's eighty percent. Sometimes
it's like, no, you gotta run one hundred percent. And
if he's gonna be on the field as just receiver
or say say's corner, part time receiver, those players are
probably going to him, say you know, you know, if

(42:00):
he's on the field for twelve plays, eight of them
will probably a target to him or a touch to him,
or at least six, you know.

Speaker 5 (42:05):
So that's where I have a little worries.

Speaker 6 (42:07):
But I do still think that he's special enough that
he should get that package place.

Speaker 5 (42:11):
So it should look like Dean Wing's with the Cowboys.
That's what she'll look like. Okay, that's how I picked that.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
Well, we'll see.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
I mean, I think it'll be really interesting because I
think different teams will view him differently, so it'll it'll
exactly maybe matter where.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
He ends up.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
Because to me, Dionne, you know, you didn't make that
much of an impact as a receiver ultimately.

Speaker 5 (42:31):
Right, there was a couple of years touchdowns. It's kind
of cute. Yeah, it was kind of cute exactly.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
Maybe Cavante Turpin's receiver value, right, I always wanted them
to use more fastest player in the NFL.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
They should resign him.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
All right, We've transition to the receivers, and it's a
weird group because after Hunter, like some of the top
picks like Buca Luther Burden are more like slot guys.
Even Matthew Golden from Texas is maybe like, okay, you
can see him starting in the NFL, but it's maybe

(43:04):
more like the dependable guy. So from the outside that
these guys' profile to me is the combine is going
to be very important because you worry that maybe some
of them won't test as well.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
Like who are you looking for? You excited to see this?

Speaker 6 (43:19):
I want to see Ted McMillan run receiver from Arizona.
I love him. I'm kind of one of these are
I'm starting to ask more people.

Speaker 5 (43:26):
It's like, am I missing something here with him? And
classic big guy?

Speaker 6 (43:29):
Because where people are citing separation stats without context of
their quarterback situation all that that's a whole nother conversation
but I want to see him run because I think
if he does run, well, he'll kind of like silence
a lot of people because that's the one hang up,
especially as a big guy. But I love him. I
think he's just like if he goes top five, I
wouldn't block.

Speaker 5 (43:47):
I get it.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
There's some negative whisper campaign about him, not characters so
much as just how much does he love it effort
that sort of stuff, which is very diff to parse
from because.

Speaker 5 (44:01):
I watched it.

Speaker 6 (44:02):
He tries to block, and he runs his routes one
hundred percent, so that's like even they're getting blown out,
he's like going like taking like you know, some of
the routes are just like for the love of the game.

Speaker 5 (44:10):
He's still doing it.

Speaker 6 (44:11):
So like that that's why I don't I don't agree
with some people that have been saying that, like I, yeah,
he's one that I really liked. And then so I
usually during the season will watch three games sometimes four,
and then with him, watched three games, really liked him,
had him a tot tim guy, and then I watched
three more games the last couple of weeks.

Speaker 5 (44:27):
I just bet I love him.

Speaker 6 (44:28):
Like yeah, yeah, I think he actually on our last monk,
we had the Patriots trained down and then taking him,
which I'm usually an offensive line bulk first trenches first guy,
but I think McMillan's that kind of a true number
one upside that it's fine to take that splash.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
Whether it's right or wrong.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
I feel like the insiders like stock of tech mcmill
and again Arizona wide receiver the odds on favored to
be the first wide receiver taken, but it wouldn't be
a shot, you know. I think crazier things have happened
if he slipped. I feel like people now think maybe,
at least as we're sitting here in mid February, that
he could slip a little further than the mocks.

Speaker 6 (45:08):
That's what's kind of seeing right now. Yeah, we're thinking, yeah,
I know, and that makes me feel crazy. That's what
thinks is I when I a lot of myself film only,
and then I this week is when I maybe started
actually talking to guys. Usually senior role week is maybe
start talking to teams, Hey, what about this guy? Anything
like that. And that's why where I'm like, Okay, now
I feel crazy. Now It's like, all right, who's who's

(45:29):
the West Coast scout that I know, I gotta figure
out exactly where I'm going on him.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
But too much of Patriots by the way, like.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
People have just been putting Will Campbell the attack and
this will be a big week for him tackle.

Speaker 3 (45:42):
You might have short arms. It's like Rashaan Slater had short.

Speaker 5 (45:46):
He's built like rashot while you're actually a lot.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Of people putting you know, him to the Patriots at
four and I just think Mike Rabel is making that pick.
And I think Mike Rabel's gonna want like a physical
freak and I don't know if that's that guy. And
so people it's almost like people think, oh the Patriots,
Oh yeah, they're fine on defense, they're fine anywhere. No,
they find a quarterback, and to me, they seem more

(46:12):
like a team that would take a Jalen Walker who's
a very physical freak. It's more of an edge guy
off ball or Mason gret like someone nasty like that.

Speaker 3 (46:23):
What are your thoughts of maybe like where they could be, Like, yeah.

Speaker 6 (46:26):
I had I was one that I had Will Campbell
going there for I really like Campbell and even like
with him, I'll just start with him first before addressing
the Patriots situations, because you're right, it's like they could
go Eddie Path. I'll be like, yeah, makes sense with Campbell.
I I do think he's actually got a little more
grit to him and actually is he's so smart and
that's what's really stood out to me.

Speaker 5 (46:46):
Like he's a true leader.

Speaker 6 (46:48):
And that's why I think a team like the Patriots
that needs everything, they're trying to build from ground zero,
Like he's a culture builder, and so he might only
end up being a good tackle if he stays out
of that there. Maybe not that true ele guy, but
he's more of like a tone center for everybody, and
not just his physical side, but more of like how
he goes about data, his makeup as the baseball baseball
scouts like to.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
Say, last time I heard someone like make a profile
of that of a number four pick, it was Cleveland
Ferrell with the Raiders.

Speaker 5 (47:14):
Like Campbell's tape is much better. He's stern left tackle.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
That was the moment where everyone was like hoo, and
they're like, no, he's yeah.

Speaker 5 (47:22):
That's right. No, that's a great point though.

Speaker 6 (47:24):
No, but Campbell's more in that and better athlete people
give him craft for That's why I don't think the
long the arm length is as worrisome maybe as with
other people, because his footwork is so good and his
technique so good.

Speaker 5 (47:35):
So now I really like him.

Speaker 6 (47:36):
But for it it's the context of he's my old
lineman one.

Speaker 5 (47:40):
But he would have been like, oh, lineman four last year,
you know.

Speaker 6 (47:43):
So it's like I would have been more comfortable taking
him in the teens, like that's where his real slot
should be. But because of where this draft is with
the Lion, there's a lot of good lineman. There's not
a lot of like those elite prospects, so that kind
of makes him.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
Also, it seems like a draft where maybe it's not
the best draft to have the fourth pick because there
maybe isn't that pick of difference between the fourth and
a cross pick.

Speaker 6 (48:01):
Want you want that, you want a teens pick, you
want like an early teens pick in this row.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
I got sidetracked by the Patriots as I wanted to do.
Let's go back to receivers too, because so Saturday, just
to set it up, that's the big skill position day, quarterbacks,
wide receivers, and running backs. In the time that we
have left with you, I do want to hear about
some of the wide receivers and the running backs, especially
that you're interested in why you're you're looking at them
this week specifically.

Speaker 6 (48:25):
Yeah, well you mentioned to Meca Buka and really like
him as a dirty work guy. But the thing is
Steven talking about the Patriots, they do not need another
guy that's necessarily.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
It's just everyone.

Speaker 6 (48:35):
I'm just laughing because it's like, yeah, but he Abuka
just he's a two. He's like a number two receiver,
that is what he is. But he just does everything well,
lines up inside outside, not sure how he'll test, and
that's what he might be a low four to five guy,
which again is splitting hairs. But again if he has
a big day, that's going to really help him. Burden,
I've been up and down on Luther Burn from a zoo.

(48:57):
Some people love Luthor Burg and because he's got really
good movement and like just that kind of he's bigger
than I think people realize too, like he's more more thicker,
more thicker. I speak English, but they with Burden, it's
just that it's kind of been gadgety, kind of been
only slot only always in motion, you know, to like
make sure he doesn't get pressed but I've seen him

(49:18):
beat press. It's one of those is that a can't
or won't kind of thing. But I feel comfortable where
I have him, especially I've seen him more as a
late first rounder, maybe sneak in early second type, and
I think others are kind of kind of the same way.

Speaker 5 (49:31):
I mean other than that, though, like do you have.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
Any little like mid round like te special sleepers.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
With the deep stuff.

Speaker 5 (49:40):
Xavier Estreppo from Miami. I like him.

Speaker 6 (49:43):
He's a slot only guy, but he'll probably be a
number three, but I like him as like a third rounder.
I would say, I like Will Shephard, who's not here
actually from Colorado. He was the other Colorado receiver is
that I don't know. He has some drops, some mistakes,
but he's another just ball when type. And I would
say the last one was Tory Holton from Colorado State.
Battles some injuries, but I man, his twenty twenty three

(50:07):
film is just awesome.

Speaker 5 (50:08):
Like one of them.

Speaker 6 (50:08):
I had him in my initial top fifty going into
the season. He battles some stuff, injuries and stuff, but
he's another one. Tory Holton is a guy I'm keep.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
My honest, So it's not a good wide receiver class
overall in terms of like top end talent, it's an
incredible running backs class overall. Obviously Ashton Genty's not working
out here, but a number of other of the top
fifty players from Daniel Jeremiah, Amari and Hampton from UNC
he's got him all.

Speaker 3 (50:34):
The way up to nineteen. Big guy. I love a big,
versatile guy.

Speaker 1 (50:37):
I mean that is that is my type, going all
the way back to Ronnie Brown, who I know we
share a fondness for Trevon Henderson at thirty five, the
Ohio State back. His teammate Judkins Jeremiah is him at
thirty seven. You know Caleb Johnson he has in the
top fifty. So to me, running backs are some of
the most fun watch ahead of time, certainly one of

(50:59):
the most fun this week from.

Speaker 6 (51:01):
My favorite position to Evao, I really just like watching
a good run. It's so fun.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
Who's sort of a tights player? And also this week
you think it's important like at the combine.

Speaker 6 (51:11):
Well, Hampton all the way is a tye player, but
like this stock is couldn't get any.

Speaker 5 (51:16):
Higher right now.

Speaker 6 (51:16):
He reminds me a lot like Joe Mixon, Like that
would be kind of my comparison for a big guy
all three downs, Like I really like Hampton a lot,
Devin Neil from Cancoe.

Speaker 3 (51:25):
Mixon as a prot was just for the on.

Speaker 5 (51:29):
Just strictly on field. Yes, he was.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
Extremely problematic because of what he came into the league with,
But I remember that class which was incredible when I
studied those guys hard and thinking, man, it's McCaffrey and
Mixing are kind of one A one B for the
one field and just the violence of his cuts, and
that's a class with Kamara and Dalvin Cook. What a
fun It is funny to think back now how low

(51:53):
the NFL was on running backs to that point, where
like those guys all went in the second and third
round except for mccaffe which is crazy.

Speaker 3 (52:01):
It was way too low.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
And now it's it's not all the way back to
where you know Rockney Brown, but it'sn't a nice little area.
It's a balance where these guys actually get value to life.
Because that was crazy because those were like really great prospects.
It's not like they just happen to turn out with
great players college films.

Speaker 3 (52:18):
He went high.

Speaker 6 (52:19):
But yeah, I know, but it's some of the most
fun film you'll ever watch of any position, but that, Yeah,
I think we're getting back to where there should be
properly assessed.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
I think not quite that class, is it or is
it getting closed?

Speaker 6 (52:29):
I would say it's more it's no, it's not that
class because it doesn't have a like genty's pretty high end,
but it's more.

Speaker 5 (52:36):
Yeah, the round two town's kind of.

Speaker 6 (52:37):
Similar though, Like there's a lot of guys that could
be number one with another like at two behind him,
but like even going with Neil, Neil is like a
round I might go round two guy with him, but
he's probably just gonna just miss my top fifty or
just barely beget inside of it.

Speaker 5 (52:52):
But another three down guy that I really like.

Speaker 6 (52:54):
Not going to give him the Mollelede more cop because
I just hold that one very very that's a dear
near and dear one to my heart. But no, but
he's I just really like him. Good size, he had
a good Senior Bowl week as well, but good vision
and everything. So he's kind of my mid round guy
that I've like, I've grown a fondness for him and
Phil Anderson.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
Running back comp of all these guys of someone that
they remind you.

Speaker 6 (53:15):
Of Okay, I said all it more about Ashton Genty
reminds me of Ontario Smith.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Okay, the Wiza, I mean, you would not have gotten
taken top five, very talented, but he.

Speaker 6 (53:25):
Had first round grade. It was just the off field
stuff that managed that my dad could take me. That
was my dad's money.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
We'll always bring it back to the old school.

Speaker 6 (53:33):
Because I know, I'm I know my audience right now.
I know I know you will appreciate this. It's like
when I go on Bomadi Shell. He just has me
on to just talk about nineteen ninety eight.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
Like football, I'm trying to remember Ontario Smith, like as
a receiver, I don't as well.

Speaker 6 (53:47):
He has a touchdown against the Cowboys Week one, two
thousand and three.

Speaker 5 (53:51):
You can see it a little bit.

Speaker 6 (53:52):
It runs a little angle route on there. No, but
he Ontario was a huge recruit. I want to say,
like a Gatoray player. The year went to Tennessee. It's
kicked out Tennessee when they were pretty reckless, and at
that time goes to Oregon AND's had all this character stuff.
And then that was especially when when the league was
so much harsh on guys that smoked weed. So like
that also didn't help and then especially when you have

(54:13):
the Wizinator. But no, anyways, that's my favorite player comparison,
So do you think that is an awesome one?

Speaker 1 (54:18):
Like who do you think he'll have a particularly good
week this week of a good running back? Just that
like okay, coming out of this people maybe are a
little higher on it.

Speaker 5 (54:27):
Could be one of the Henderson maybe. Yeah, And his
tape is so he's gonna have a role in the
weak for a decade.

Speaker 6 (54:32):
Because he's such a good pass protector and you can
catch and you can take any ball to the house.
So it's like he's to me, he's not that ideal one,
but it's like I want him part of my backfield.
But he I think he's gonna run like the wind,
so he'll just kinda keep rising, rise and rising when
you could just do that, wake up and do that.

Speaker 5 (54:47):
And that's kind of how his play is.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
By the way, on a Buka who he mentioned the
Ohio state wide receiver slot guy couldn't have a higher
recommendation from Phil Wesseling, Chris Westling's brother, who is my
Ohio they whisper and he's never wrong about the Ohio
state prospect. Now, granted, they all turn out good, so
it's like, but there are some I kind of read

(55:08):
between the life.

Speaker 3 (55:09):
Some they're higher on than others.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
And he just he promises even more than Smith and
Jigba at the time, just as much. He's like, I
promise you he is gonna have a great long career.

Speaker 6 (55:21):
People sleeping on him. I just I'm a sucker for
that skill set. But he's like a better vere. He's God,
I know. But that's why I like Jalen Polk. But
it's it's that. But it's that Robert Woods tire, that
Chris Godwin's here, the power slot, that he's a Z
that can line up inside as well, and he just
does everything well.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
I trust.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Issues with everyone that was into Jalen Poke is it
makes you a.

Speaker 5 (55:44):
Male better Because there's a lot of other people that like, oh.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
Yeah, everyone liked Jalen Poke. Everyone thought that was a
great pick. I love that trade down. Don't take Lad
McConkie and get Poke. What great value. Everyone liked it.
So it's like, well, the thing with him is like
he's like a high floor you can't miss.

Speaker 5 (55:59):
I love being like I.

Speaker 6 (56:01):
Had Poking Lad next to each other on my big board.
I think I'm like thirty five thirty six thing with Ladd.
He has medical concerns which already showed up, and that's
why he didn't go as high as the people. Like
people are forgetting that his medicals are not great.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Okay man, but he' I'm not the one taking him.
I loved to he led the league when he getting
injured and like during the game and coming in and
but in the end he played the whole season and
was incredible. And so I don't want to hear about that.
He's got medical He's got to get bigger and bigger.

Speaker 5 (56:28):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
Not worried about it. That year alone was worth a
high pick. I mean he was great.

Speaker 5 (56:35):
He was I love him.

Speaker 3 (56:37):
He could be a one.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
You're you're the one in terms of prospect evaluation and
kind of putting it all together and how it's gonna
fit in the NFL. I love what you guys are
doing football three oh one check Nate Tice outs with
Matt Harmon Charles McDonald. So three of the smartest guys
in the business. Enjoy your week here in Indianapolis. He

(57:00):
sticking around. I am getting out of here, but we
will be back on a Sunday night, kind of dropping
Monday morning, almost like it's the regular season again.

Speaker 3 (57:11):
That is when we will be back.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
We will be recapping all the position groups that we
just previewed, so it'll it'll almost be like a week
one recap, except it's the combine recaps. To look for
that in your feed by Monday morning. Until then, yeah,
I think if the combine drills are over, just about

(57:33):
football is back.