May 7, 2025 • 31 mins
Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Jon Ledyard to get you caught up on news from Around the NFL including the Steelers trading George Pickens to the Cowboys (00:10), how Pickens fits with the Cowboys (13:10), Gabe Davis being released by the Jaguars (24:50), Dallas Goedert reworking his deal with the Eagles (27:20), and Justin Tucker being released by the Ravens (29:03).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're standing by our evaluation
of George Pickens in the draft class in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Greg Rosenthal.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
I'm here with my friend John Ledyard from Audibles and Analytics.
We had a whole plan for today's show and it
was thrown out the window when we got some rare
breaking news in May George Pickens to the Cowboys, and
no one I wanted to talk.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
To more than John Ledyard. What's going on, John?
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Not too much?
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Man.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I appreciate you having me always excited and great to
be able to talk some ball with you, especially a
big Steelers trade. Not often that we well, more often
lately that we get these involving Steelers wide receivers. So
it'd be fun to break it down with you.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Yes, it's been in my head that I overrated Pickens slightly,
had him second that year.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I believe behind a lave, you know.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Looking at Garrett Wilson and Drake London, how they've done
that was probably not the right choice, but always held
out hope.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
And he's talking to a Trailer Birks wide receiver truther.
So yeah, look.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Hey, Pickens is at least having a good career relatively,
although you'd never want to get traded for a future
third round pick going into the fourth year of your career.
Here's the trade, Okay, George Pickens and a seventh round
pick in twenty or sixth round pick in twenty twenty
seven go to the Cowboys. They send back a third
(01:23):
round pick in next year's draft that's twenty twenty six,
and a twenty twenty seven fifth round pick. That last
extra pick was interesting to me, essentially. Yeah, the Cowboys
all they had to give up was a long trade
down from the third to the sixth round in a
future draft, and they get a the Steelers get a
fifth round pick back. What were your initial kind of
(01:45):
big picture thoughts when this came down, Mine, just very
quickly was it actually makes sense for both side, and
it makes sense for me, like, I'm going to be
more interested to watch the Cowboys this year. It'll be
great for content including today. What were your thoughts.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah, the player type makes sense for Dallas. We can
talk about the intricacies of Pickens specifically and how that
all will play out no matter where he is. But
if you're just saying, oh, the Cowboys got a vertical
wide receiver who can win back shorter balls can certainly
win and contest to catch situations. We'll talk a little
bit about that and the numbers there being not quite
what they wants what they were in his rookie year,
(02:21):
but still I have hope that that can be better.
But I think the prototype makes sense for Dallas. The
question to me is just where do you consider the
risk factor? And that's to be honest with Dallas, though,
like haven't we been asking, we can't do both right.
We can't ask Jerry take the risk, go out there
and make a move, and he hasn't, and they've kind
of had been in this window where they should win
(02:41):
and they don't win, and it's so we've criticized for that.
And then he goes out and he makes the move.
And so I think from Dallas's perspective, you have to
at least see the vision for it. It's a lot
of risk, I think, and that's where I kind of
come back to the concerns just with the profile who
pickens is and where my concerns are there.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, and we'll get into that, but I think if
you look at the risk, there's a lot of things
that have to be taken into account. Number one is
his contract situation. He's entering the final year of his deal.
According to Clarence Hill, who does a good job covering
the team, the George Pickens is not looking to get
a contract extension. He quote wants to show he's a
(03:20):
top guy this year. So it doesn't sound like either side,
I'm guessing or would be that interested in the contract.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Now.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
It's going to be a wait and see in the Cowboys,
of course have the franchise tag if he just totally
balled out, and they could use it that way. So
you're paying for one year of George Pickens. But what's
the price. It's a third round pick, that's a significant pick.
I think it's interesting, and we'll start, I guess from
the Cowboys side of it. I think it's pretty obvious
the Steelers had a price for George Pickens. I heard
(03:52):
coming into the draft, and Daniel Jeremiah alluded to it
on our podcast together that he was probably gone the
second that DK metcalf trade happened. But the Steelers established
the price. I think they wanted a Day two pick
for him. They just did not get it, and so
they held on. It sounds like this trade was in
the works for a while. They felt like they had
(04:13):
this coming that yeah, they will would get their Day
two pick. It just was gonna be in twenty twenty six.
And to me, that's it's a fair price. It's like
a fair price to take a shot on Pickens, considering
it's only one round different than the pick you gave
up for Jonathan Mingo. I mean, it's a much better
value than that one. John Yeah, no doubt, and I
think that you're right.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
As soon as that trade was made for DK Metcalf,
it was Pickens was done. It was just may basically
a matter of whether it would happen before the season,
during the season, or after the season that he would
leave because there was no this was it one more
year max for Pickens and Pittsburgh. So if you consider
Pittsburgh a win now, this is a super contending team Pickens. Obviously,
there's no doubt losing Pickens is a talent deficit from
(04:57):
where they were a couple hours ago. That part is true.
That part I could agree with from a raw talent perspective,
But how the pieces all fit together and whether Pittsburgh
was actually in that sort of contending window which I
would say, and have said for quite a while that
they are not. And the best thing we can do
as an organization is recognized we actually aren't in that window,
and even though we might get the last playoff spot,
(05:17):
we actually aren't going to compete for anything, even to
win that solitary playoff game.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
And so they're not thinking that though, John, you know,
they're not thinking that.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Now though maybe right like, could that be could this
be a sign that maybe they're starting to think, Oh,
look at next year's draft and what we could potentially do.
Now they've got potentially twelve picks in that draft, so
it's a possibility. Of course, they're going to gout and
sign Aaron Rodgers, and everything I say is going to
be completely rendered moot and irrelevant at that point because
they will be leading back into the old way of
(05:48):
doing things, and I'll be frustrated again. But I do
think this is a move for the future, as well
as considering we can't have two guys that are like
this on our offense. Both guys. People will say their
strengths are redundant. That is true, but I think that's
more livable than their weakness is being redundant. You can't
have two fumble too often. Yet if two guys are
on drop passes and make mistakes as route runners in
(06:10):
terms of the spacing and understanding the construction of where
they're supposed to be on the field in relationship to
each other. Two guys one guy like that you live
for for the splash plays, the big plays down the field.
You can live with it. Two guys like that, I
just think is too much. I just think that is
a really difficult space to live in as an offense,
especially when you are hopefully at some point going to
be playing a young quarterback, whether it's Will Howard, and
(06:33):
you're going to need those pieces to be consistently where
they're supposed to be. Two guys are just they're just
that high variance and also will fight the opposing team's
defensive backs and get in the lead the league and penalties.
It's just too much to have in one room. It's
too much to have on the field at the same time.
And that was a big concern too.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, that makes sense to me.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
To me, it says nothing about how they view themselves
this year, next year, or anything. I just think they
wanted out on George Pickens. They were just not in
the George Pickens business, and they had an opportunity to
get Dk Metcalf, who is obviously a better player than
George Pickens, a more consistent, I believe leader, from everything
(07:12):
that you hear, a more you can tell me, maybe
a more willing blocker, just everything that Dk Metcalf brings you.
They are betting huge on him as a core difference maker,
and the second he was on their team, they just
were out on George Pickens because of the off the
field stuff, because maybe some inconsistencies as a player, and
(07:33):
they just waited until the moment that they got the
right price for him, and that ultimately, I think they
believe in their system enough for what it's worth. I
don't think they necessarily should that it's not going to
hurt their winning or losing ledger to get rid of
George Pickens for this year, and eventually they got what
they felt like was a fair price.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
I'd ask you, as.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Someone who is a closet Steelers fan, or maybe you're
out of the closet, I don't really know, just out there, Yeah, okay,
you're good, yes, and check out John by the way,
subscribe him on Audible's and analytics and get his great
Steelers writing, some Bucks writing, and then you get the
great podcast he does with Oli Connelly. Where were you
at with Pickens's development as a player and kind of
(08:14):
who he was after three years, because he's one of
those draft evaluations that I think almost no matter what
you say, you can say you were right three years
into his career because you've seen the ceiling plays. He
obviously is better talent wise than where he got taken
in the draft, but you've also seen the downside of
(08:34):
what people were worried about coming into the league.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Yeah, I mean one of the key aspects of this
is the fit in today's modern NFL with who George
Pickens is a player, There are no questions he catches
the ball at an extremely high level and he can
make plays in the vertical portion of the field. But
you and I know, Greg, the NFL offense asked wide
receivers to do much more than this in today's league,
especially more than ever before. If you don't know where
(08:58):
all the pieces are moving with how can dense the
league is, and how much they're bringing receivers in and
reducing their split and saying you need to play close
to the core of the formation, and if we're in
a run, you need to contribute, and if we're in
a pass, you need to know how the routes distribute,
How do the routes distribute and break up from that
point on the field. That's what teams need from their
wide receier position, especially Arthur Smith like he needs this
(09:19):
from wide receier position. If you remember back to before
the Russell Wilson, before Russell Wilson became to start in Pittsburgh,
van Jefferson out snapped, out, snapped, k outsnapped George Pickens
in a couple of games. That wasn't because Van Jefferson's
better than than George Pickens. That was because they just
simply viewed Van Jefferson as a more ideal piece for
(09:40):
the types of things they like to do in terms
of bringing a receiver close to the liner scovers. Now the
Arthur Smith conversation, we don't have time for Greg. You know,
I am very anti. I am not suggesting in any way,
shape or form. In fact, I railed against it at
the time that that was a wise way to do things.
It was not. But I'm saying that if this is
the offensive coordinator you're committed to, and other offenses as well.
You need players who are going to be able to
(10:01):
play close to the core of the formation from reduce
splits from condensed alignments, and be able to distribute their
routes from there appropriately, as well as work the middle
of the field. The struggle with Pickens is that the
things he's really good at are really valuable, but they're
only value. They're never valuable in a volume sense, like
you are rarely going to be in a game script
or a game situation in which he is getting a
(10:22):
massive volume of plays. Now, could he be developed in
something more? I'm open to that Steelers coaching, I have
been offensive coaching especially I've been highly critical of for years,
so I think it's possible. But also who he is
as a player, just knowing kind of his demeanor, in
his disposition and kind of where he wants to play,
and you know, there's just not a lot of Christmas
(10:42):
crispness and attention to detail in his game, And to me,
that's where the whole he can help into something more.
I hope, but I really would be surprised. I think
he is generally who he is. You are going to
see great things and flashes. You're going to be incredibly
frustrated at times with who he is. I don't think
he's this deva that he's painted out to be. But
I do think there's a player who is in his
(11:05):
usefulness to the league and in what he can do
in a every role, every route. Basis is really limited
in that way. Now his strengths in a better system,
and I do think Ceedee Lamb is a great compliment
to him. I think that part of it is probably
the most exciting part for Dallas. He can be effective
in that specific role for Dallas.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I think, Yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Is the fit I think in Dallas is as perfect
as it could be for George Pickens for this portion
of his career. Still just twenty four years old, just
turned twenty four in March, like has a lot of potential.
Although I did want to just stop you and ask
why don't you think he's the diva that he's painted
out to be before we move to the Cowboys fit.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
I just think he's an interesting person. I don't think
he's this He's not Deontay Johnson, where Deontay Johnson would
like get off the field and rage in the locker
room that he didn't get to Like, that's not the
kind of player we're talking about here. I mean, this
guy is just kind of oblivious more than anything, Like
Pickens kind of lives in his own world. A defensive
back slights him, he bodies like the guy in the play,
Like that's He's just kind of like a short fuse,
(12:04):
like narrow focused. Guy doesn't always sense the full moving picture.
I think he leaves a game, leaves the field after
a game, and in ten seconds is gone, like it's
just flushed, whether it's good or bad. I just I mean,
this guy didn't know that Joey Porter Junior made the
first interception of his career in the game against Baltimore
when he picks off Lamar Jackson at the ends of
one of the biggest games of the year. They asked
why the postgame presser. He had no idea. He's like
(12:24):
Joey Porter gonna pick tonight. He just was the biggest
play in the game. Like he didn't know that Mack
Canada was fired until the next day when he came
into the building, Like he didn't know that it happened
on a Tuesday. He came in Wednesday morning. He was
talking to music. I just found out when I came in.
I'm like, so, that's the kind of guy we're talking about.
I just think he's sort of it's George Pickens focus,
but it's not in like an antagonistic way at all.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
And yet, yeah, when he is in the air and
there's a defensive back in front of him and he's
trying to pluck that ball out of the air like,
he's kind of a genius. It's why I loved him
so much coming out of Georgia. There was just enough
of those plays. And maybe he hasn't developed enough as
a route runner and a separator and all that, but
there are enough of those plays that I saw that
(13:06):
and I thought, that's got to work. Unless he's a
total knucklehead, and I don't think like in terms of
like loving to play the game. He exhibits a love
of playing the game. When he's out there, he's competitive.
I think that's got to work. And I think it's
important to mention as we kind of transition to Dallas
that it has worked.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
In three years. This is what he's done.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
He's caught one hundred and seventy four passes, for almost
three thousand yards twenty eight hundred yards, so he's averaged
almost one thousand yards a season. He led the NFL
in yards per catch as in his second year as
a twenty two year old eighteen point one yards per catch.
He's averaged sixteen point three yards per catch for his career.
(13:48):
I'm not saying that he's a number one that you
build an offense around, but that's fantastic production just looking
at it from a late second round pick. And now
you go to Dallas where you're not the number one.
And now we'll get into the fit a little bit
with CD Lamb. You are with a quarterback Dak Prescott,
who I feel like I haven't talked about at all
(14:09):
this offseason, and I'm sort of fascinated what he's going
to look like now in this Brian Schottenheimer offense, and
you bring Clayton Adams over from Arizona, but it doesn't
seem like they're really, you know, making an Arizona type
of offense. But you're with a guy in Cede Lamb
that's it's so talented, and you're going to be on
the outside in theory in that Michael Gallup type of role.
But a better version of it. And you're with a
(14:30):
guy in Dak Prescott who throws a beautiful deep ball,
it's probably a better fit. And the thing it reminded
me of is the Cowboys have had some success with
getting these receivers in for the honeymoon season, and hearing
that George Pickens doesn't want to sign a contract right
now because he wants to go off, you would think
you're going to get the best version of George Pickens
(14:51):
this year, like Roy Williams way back in the day
or t O when they brought him back in back
in the day. I do think you'll probably get the
best vers version of Pickens. He's with a great quarterback
and a great wide receiver. And that's why for the
Cowboys a third round pick, even without the long term security,
I think they're trying to win this year. I think
it makes sense for them.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
If it's going to work for them, George Pickens needs
to get back to being the best, like above the
rim contested catch receiver in the NFL. That's really the path,
because I would be just shocked if all the rough
edges of his game ever round out. But they don't
necessarily need that from him. You mentioned it right with
Ceedee Lamb. He doesn't need to be the number one option.
He doesn't need to be the guy you run your
offense through. He needs to be the splash play creator.
(15:33):
And the biggest way he can do that is when
he gets five targets a game, because that might be
what it is in this offense within his role. When
he gets that sort of distribution in the passing game,
can he make three of those awesome plays down the field?
Can he be the guy who Avere who leads the
league the average ards per catch, who is back up
near his rookie year one of the best contested catch
(15:54):
seasons I have ever seen, nineteen to twenty eight contested
situations per PNFF sixty eight percent. Since then, it just
hasn't been anywhere close. He's around. He's a little under
thirty five percent over the last two years combined in
those situations, still in just about as many situations per year,
So that part hasn't changed. But some of that is
ball placement, which will be better with Dak so I
(16:14):
do think that part will matter. Watching him obviously every snap,
I think some of it's on the quarterback. I think
some of it is. Yeah, it's hard to live that
way as a receiver in a high volume role, in
contested spots, in this role, in this offense. I think
it's going to change. So I'm with you. I think
that his best ball could easily be played this year.
I think the fit with Dak Prescott is good. The
(16:36):
questions just like, how many mistakes will there be? Penalties
fumbles are a big part of it. Drops how much
mistakes will there be in terms of focus and execution.
The lady kind of puts on your offense in terms
of how you can use him. I think might be
a factor, But overall, I do think it's exciting for Dallas.
It's just a matter of this year, what's the ceiling
for the whole team? And then you gave up this third?
(16:58):
Can it be enough? Can you get him a longer
term deal? Is that even an interest to you? Do
you want to pay two wide receivers big? If not?
Was this the right move? Those are kind of the
more existential questions I think that's surround the team after
this move.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Dallas does not do well with the existential questions. They
they they do a lot of work looking at their
old draft profiles, and being like, oh, well we can
fix them.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
We want that to work.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
I mean, they had a completely bizarre off season at
running back and bringing Javonte Williams and Miles Sanders just
like really that that's what you're going to do. But
it was the trades that caught my eye was it
was the Kenneth Murray trade and like Kyer Elam's on
this roster, right, yeah, they traded for him too.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
It's just like, well, we.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Trust our draft, you know, profile, and we're going to
just give them a shot and see if that can work.
The same thing they did with Mingo. But I think
this is an upper tier version of that. And when
I mentioned selfishly at the beginning, it makes me happier.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
It's just like I.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Want to see Dak with a chance here. This is
not necessarily a bad team. It's a it's a good
a defensive roster, it's a good quarterback. The offensive line,
if it broke right, has a chance to be pretty
good or certainly like league average and improved. That I
think they have a chance. This puts the Tyler Booker
pick maybe into like a little bit of different light.
(18:17):
Do you look at their draft any differently now? Because
like that was the debate at twelve, you would have
thought they would have taken Matthew Golden there maybe at BUKA,
that's what I thought they were going to do. And
they take Tyler Booker and they're going to be on
TV John, whether you like it or not. And I
just feel like they're going to be more entertaining and competitive,
and that's all I really care about.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
I'm not a kid.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
I agree with that. I mean again, I think that
you can quibble with the move, and you can certainly
find flaws and say like, hey, this is a risk
and we could look back and it could look bad,
there's no doubt. But again, if you don't have any risk,
like what are you doing? As there was no way
Dallas was getting out of it this offseason. If they
weren't gonna they were not going to improve unless they
took on some level of risk. You have to take
it on. So I was surprised by one thing, Greg.
(19:01):
I think it's worth pointing out they I thought they
really like negotiating wise, maybe they lost the plot a
little bit, and that where they ended up giving up
as interesting because before the draft they're offering a fourth
it sounds like it was, and that was kind of
what I heard at the time, was that Dallas and
maybe some other teams were interested in Day three they
would give up a Day three pick for pickings before
(19:22):
during the draft, but there really wasn't a Day two
pick on the table, and that's how Pittsburgh wanted, obviously,
so Pittsburgh kind of waits it out. I'm not sure
where they were at, whether they were somebody will eventually
come around, or we'll just keep them, if you know,
if we're not getting any good compensation for him. Obviously,
I think they wanted to move them, but they just
didn't want to surrender him for nothing. They end up
getting the twenty twenty six third round pick from Dallas
and a pretty a favorable Day three swap for them,
(19:44):
which surprised me. I thought they would be the one.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
That's a part I agree they to be clear, they
got a Day three swap where they moved the Steelers
moved up from the sixth to the fifth. Not a
huge deal, but I was surprised that they had to,
you know, throw an extra to make it happen.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Yeah, part was interesting to me, But either way, I
think they get end up with the Day two pick
in twenty twenty six. Now, I actually think for Dallas
they probably they clearly preferred that to giving one up
in twenty twenty five. For Pittsburgh, I actually liked the
twenty twenty six one. I mean, knowing where Dallas is
sort of in the order, maybe was favorable to them
because Dallas was was picking higher than I mean, that's
(20:20):
probably right around the range for them. Maybe they'll be
a little they hope to be a little bit lower
obviously this year. But I think for Pittsburgh that twenty
twenty six drafts specifically of positions they might need to me.
I just I wasn't as high on the wide receiver
class this year as I know some people were. I
think the cornerback class was one of the weakest in
years in terms of where it dropped off after the
top guys. So if you're looking at third round picks
(20:40):
this year, the talent at those spots, and then especially
in the offensive line, which is three position groups, I
expect the Steelers will be really interested in outside of
quarterback next year really not ideal for the Steelers this year,
and then also quarterback right next year is probably a
year that they want to be in position they maybe
make a move. So to me, the pick in twenty
twenty six is actually more valuable to the Steelers given
(21:02):
their long term whether you want to say it's goals,
I'm hoping it's goals. Whether it's goals or where they
just will be inevitably, whether they like it or not,
I think that twenty twenty six PI actually ends up
making more sense for them, and maybe more sense for
Dallas too. I am just surprised that Dallas was willing
to give that up, because I don't think there was
another team from what I've heard with was willing to
give him that kind of conversation.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Maybe by old Boss Florio helped push it along because
he wrote an article on Tuesday round Monday rather saying
Jerry Jones said during the draft, hey we've got these
big trades coming. We're working on a big trade, wait
and see it. And he writes this articles like, hey,
where's that big trade you were talking about? And it
was now in hindsight, probably always clearly this George Pickens.
(21:44):
They were probably working on it. I have a feeling
and felt good that at some point it was going
to happen. But maybe maybe he pushed it over the
goal line asking for it, like you'd be surprised how
things happen in this league quickly on the Steelers, and
then we'll get to just some other news. I'll say
goodbye to you. DK metcalf is their number one, Like
that is a huge upgrade. But man, the rest of
their receiver group is roughs. Robert Woods people are expecting
(22:06):
is like, like, I don't know if Robert Woods is
going to make that team. He wasn't able to contribute
to Houston last year. He's the contract doesn't indicate that
he's necessarily even definitely on the team. We'll see obviously
a great career, but he's at the.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
End of it.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Calvin Austin, who has been an okay role player, I
guess as like your four, Scottie Miller, Roman Wilson, their
third round pick from a year ago, who they hope
develops into a slot guy. Ben Scaronik. I mean, it's
it's rough. There are some receivers out there. Amari Cooper
is still out there, Keenan Allen is still out there there,
(22:38):
Gabe Davis is now out there. There are guys I
feel like they need to add one of those guys
just just as like another professional to give a shot.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Yeah, I remember we're talking about Arthur Smith again, and
I want to be on the record. I am not
recommending this for do not try this at home, kids,
Do not try this offense at home. However, Greg, this
is an offense that we know over the years with
other Smith he said, give me one guy to run
the off of the passing attack through, give me a
playable option at tight end. They have those two things.
The other receivers need to be able to just fill roles.
(23:08):
That's what he wants. And so when you look at
the group, yes, I agree with you, and a vacuum
Robert Woods probably should be. Will he make it? Will
he not? Going into the season. In reality, he's probably
gonna make it. And he's probably gonna make Yeah, because
he can play condensed, he's an adult in the room,
and he can block. And those are three things that
he wants. I mean, who is his number two? Mac
Collins was the guy that he valued. Is his number two? Like,
(23:31):
that's what he wants. He wants guys who can do
that tough guy stuff over the middle of the field.
Scourneck fits that mold. They're hoping that Roman Wilson fits
that mold as well. That'll be a big question. He
barely he was hurt. Like last year, he kept getting
nicked up, so whether he can fill that role, I
was lower on him the consensus. Again, for the record,
I'm trying to explain the Steelers perspective. I don't think
there's really a great other option in the room at all.
(23:53):
Calvin Austin is a different type of player, like a
vertical threat wide receiver from the slot who I think
can replace some of the like pass obvious downs, field
stretching ability. He's a guy that actually I thought was
really similar to Jalen Nole. Since we've been talking drafts
of labor, people liking guys that the vertical threat from
the slot just running every route of full speed stretches
the field for everybody else, So at least guys that
(24:15):
can fit. Again, it's more of who can fill the
role and function in the actual offensive system, even if
they're not graded or I have no special traits at it,
rather than who's the most talented guy, and fans sort
of think of, oh pickings more talented one hundred percent?
Can the other guys just literally run what Arthsman needs
them to do better and more versatile than Pickens. Perhaps. However,
(24:35):
I would say the ceiling on that offense of structure
and idea is so incredibly low. Never tried at home,
as I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah, I mean, I just mean there's some other guys
who can play it, Like, yeah, let's get into the
rest of it. Is Gabe Davis got cut by the Jaguars,
which is quite a statement considering they owed him eleven
million dollars guaranteed this year, a total disaster of a signing.
But show did Buffalo. He could be a useful enough
roleplay as a vertical threat. He should be on a
team somewhere. And maybe that's the bet they're making, that
(25:04):
there's offsets in his contract and they'll have to pay
slightly less. But man, that was a bold statement. Like
whether it's a Gabe Davis, I don't know if Keenan
Allen makes sense. I don't know if Amari Cooper makes sense.
I just mean you are you are a dk metcalf
hamstring in jewry away from just I don't know how
you're throwing a forward pass if you're the if you're
(25:24):
the Steelers, any any thoughts on Gabe Davis now available.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Yeah, he'd be interesting, I think. I mean, when he
was in Buffalo, I feel just the verticality of who
he is as a player feels like it would be
valuable for an offense that needed that. Nowther Steelers have
a couple of those types of pieces. The type of
piece they really need is like what Robert Woods was
in his prime or you know, I don't think they
were going to take a Mechaguka, but like that type
of player and so, but again, they probably weren't going
(25:50):
to take him, even if the Bucks didn't, because they
don't really value that role in this offense. That wide
res your two roles. So it's just a value proposition,
I think to them. And so I think from their perspective,
like if this if they were going to be at
their best or most effective as an offense. Just you're
looking across the league. For get Arthur Smith, a player
like that who could block, were condensed morek the middle
of the field, make tough catches though, that would be
(26:13):
the prototype of what they'd be looking for. So I
think hoping that Robert Woods can provide that is probably
you know, not ideal. Could Gabe Davis Phil a role
could he be, you know, a piece on this team
given where their cores at? For sure, that's possible. I
think Keenan Allen's about cooked. I'm not sure i'd be
that into.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah, I agree, I agree.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I'm naming him because I'm regretting putting him in my
top one oh one at the end.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
I think he was at eighty three.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
You know, he finished the season with sub productive and
he's Keenan Allen. There's always some hope that he could
bounce back, but it's thin out there. Those players are
not easier to find. Knowing the Steelers lately, they're more
likely to wait till cut down and then sign like
Braxton Barrios from the Texans as their fourth receiver or something.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Like that, because the names come up.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Actually, yes, I'm glad you mentioned that Allen hard If
Rogers is there, his Binkie could could come with him.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
It kind of makes sense.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Joking.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
That's the thing is can can Rogers even I don't
think he could take advantage of George Pickens at this
point of his career. Just is unwilling to go deep
down the field. Can't Can he get the best at
a dk Metcalf h we'll see. I did want to
mention Dallas Goddter reportedly is agreeing to a rework deal
with the Philadelphia Eagles. The Eagles had made it pretty
clear all off season that he was potentially available for
(27:29):
a trade. Definitely, we're kind of putting the screws to him.
I believe to take some sort of pay cut. We
don't have the details on that yet, but I would
expect that he took some sort of pay cut to stay,
so that that's a win for the Eagles.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Yeah, I think it always made more sense for him
to stay, in my opinion, Like I just felt like
he's a pivotal piece when he's healthy for them, I
think because they ask him to do stuff not every
title in the league can do, and they've really developed
him they I mean, they've kind of made the monster.
And when Tucker Craft came out, I was like this,
I hope he can be Dallas Goddter, and I think
he's on that path to be that type of player.
(28:02):
But I think just what Goddard does as a blocker
in the move, how he can play from different lignements,
the fact that he can catch screen, you can line
up as a wide out and little gitially run those routes,
catch screens and be a threat, and he just he's
not dominant maybe at any one thing. Maybe I mean
at times as a blocker. When he's been healthy, there's
been some really nice stretches for him, but he's really
good at a lot of different stuff, and they really
(28:24):
need a piece like that with where they're at and
their window. It just it sort of made sense that
they found a way to stay together, and I'm glad
that they did.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah, I'm always a little dubious of on off splits
or the equivalents in football, but man, when when he
wasn't on the field, you felt that difference because it
was such a big falloff from their two great outside
receivers to not really having anyone reliable insights. So I'm
glad they worked that out. But I think it was
just they felt they felt like they couldn't rely on
him to stay on the field enough. But they got
(28:52):
through the draft, they didn't end up with a high
pick tight end, and they're they're all going to be
back there on offense twenty twenty five, which helps Jalen
hurts out a lot, and then before we go. I
just wanted to kind of close the circle. On Monday's show,
we actually talked at length about the Justin Tucker situation
and the wording that John Harbaugh had about how interesting
(29:15):
it was.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
He said, football decisions.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
If we cut Justin Tucker, it will be a football decision,
And in fact, since we talked about it, they did
cut him, And that was the most notable thing about
it for me. The quote from Eric DeCosta when they
released him. He said, sometimes football decisions are incredibly difficult.
This is one of those instances. And then the tone
of it very complimentary of Justin Tucker and how tough
(29:39):
it was to release him, and they sincerely wish him
in his family the very best in this next chapter
of their lives. And I just wanted to say, well,
I found the tone of it off putting, with the
sixteen sexual assault allegations that went into it, and them
leading with football decisions so clearly in their statement. I
(29:59):
also just I think it was a legal thing that
they do not want Justin Tucker or the NFLPA to
come after them, and frankly, I would have expected them
to bring in another kicker and potentially cut Tucker or
make them compete for his job this year anyways. And
I don't necessarily believe that the off field stuff didn't
have a factor, but that's just what they put because
they are covering their own ass. We have seen that
(30:21):
a lot in the NFL. You have covered us gloriously.
John Ledyard. I'm going to get you off to your
day because I know you're busy, but I appreciate you
stepping in at the last second and talking a little.
George Pickens to the Cowboys. The Cowboys are going to
be more interesting. I don't know if that'll be true
with the Steelers, if it's like Mason Rudolph throwing to
(30:41):
Roman Wilson.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
And We for seven. Maybe not in Toy twenty no.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
But I do expect Rodgers has got to be there eventually.
Sorry about that, John, wrap it up. We will be
back for our final show of the week. It's actually
going to go up Friday morning. That's going to be
with Nick Chuck. Very excited about that one.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Until then.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yes, the Dallas Cowboys actually given us some news to
talk about in the middle of May.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Thank you, Jerry Jones. Football's back
Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're standing by our evaluation
of George Pickens in the draft class in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Greg Rosenthal.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
I'm here with my friend John Ledyard from Audibles and Analytics.
We had a whole plan for today's show and it
was thrown out the window when we got some rare
breaking news in May George Pickens to the Cowboys, and
no one I wanted to talk.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
To more than John Ledyard. What's going on, John?
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Not too much?
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Man.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I appreciate you having me always excited and great to
be able to talk some ball with you, especially a
big Steelers trade. Not often that we well, more often
lately that we get these involving Steelers wide receivers. So
it'd be fun to break it down with you.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Yes, it's been in my head that I overrated Pickens slightly,
had him second that year.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I believe behind a lave, you know.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Looking at Garrett Wilson and Drake London, how they've done
that was probably not the right choice, but always held
out hope.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
And he's talking to a Trailer Birks wide receiver truther.
So yeah, look.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Hey, Pickens is at least having a good career relatively,
although you'd never want to get traded for a future
third round pick going into the fourth year of your career.
Here's the trade, Okay, George Pickens and a seventh round
pick in twenty or sixth round pick in twenty twenty
seven go to the Cowboys. They send back a third
(01:23):
round pick in next year's draft that's twenty twenty six,
and a twenty twenty seven fifth round pick. That last
extra pick was interesting to me, essentially. Yeah, the Cowboys
all they had to give up was a long trade
down from the third to the sixth round in a
future draft, and they get a the Steelers get a
fifth round pick back. What were your initial kind of
(01:45):
big picture thoughts when this came down, Mine, just very
quickly was it actually makes sense for both side, and
it makes sense for me, like, I'm going to be
more interested to watch the Cowboys this year. It'll be
great for content including today. What were your thoughts.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah, the player type makes sense for Dallas. We can
talk about the intricacies of Pickens specifically and how that
all will play out no matter where he is. But
if you're just saying, oh, the Cowboys got a vertical
wide receiver who can win back shorter balls can certainly
win and contest to catch situations. We'll talk a little
bit about that and the numbers there being not quite
what they wants what they were in his rookie year,
(02:21):
but still I have hope that that can be better.
But I think the prototype makes sense for Dallas. The
question to me is just where do you consider the
risk factor? And that's to be honest with Dallas, though,
like haven't we been asking, we can't do both right.
We can't ask Jerry take the risk, go out there
and make a move, and he hasn't, and they've kind
of had been in this window where they should win
(02:41):
and they don't win, and it's so we've criticized for that.
And then he goes out and he makes the move.
And so I think from Dallas's perspective, you have to
at least see the vision for it. It's a lot
of risk, I think, and that's where I kind of
come back to the concerns just with the profile who
pickens is and where my concerns are there.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, and we'll get into that, but I think if
you look at the risk, there's a lot of things
that have to be taken into account. Number one is
his contract situation. He's entering the final year of his deal.
According to Clarence Hill, who does a good job covering
the team, the George Pickens is not looking to get
a contract extension. He quote wants to show he's a
(03:20):
top guy this year. So it doesn't sound like either side,
I'm guessing or would be that interested in the contract.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Now.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
It's going to be a wait and see in the Cowboys,
of course have the franchise tag if he just totally
balled out, and they could use it that way. So
you're paying for one year of George Pickens. But what's
the price. It's a third round pick, that's a significant pick.
I think it's interesting, and we'll start, I guess from
the Cowboys side of it. I think it's pretty obvious
the Steelers had a price for George Pickens. I heard
(03:52):
coming into the draft, and Daniel Jeremiah alluded to it
on our podcast together that he was probably gone the
second that DK metcalf trade happened. But the Steelers established
the price. I think they wanted a Day two pick
for him. They just did not get it, and so
they held on. It sounds like this trade was in
the works for a while. They felt like they had
(04:13):
this coming that yeah, they will would get their Day
two pick. It just was gonna be in twenty twenty six.
And to me, that's it's a fair price. It's like
a fair price to take a shot on Pickens, considering
it's only one round different than the pick you gave
up for Jonathan Mingo. I mean, it's a much better
value than that one. John Yeah, no doubt, and I
think that you're right.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
As soon as that trade was made for DK Metcalf,
it was Pickens was done. It was just may basically
a matter of whether it would happen before the season,
during the season, or after the season that he would
leave because there was no this was it one more
year max for Pickens and Pittsburgh. So if you consider
Pittsburgh a win now, this is a super contending team Pickens. Obviously,
there's no doubt losing Pickens is a talent deficit from
(04:57):
where they were a couple hours ago. That part is true.
That part I could agree with from a raw talent perspective,
But how the pieces all fit together and whether Pittsburgh
was actually in that sort of contending window which I
would say, and have said for quite a while that
they are not. And the best thing we can do
as an organization is recognized we actually aren't in that window,
and even though we might get the last playoff spot,
(05:17):
we actually aren't going to compete for anything, even to
win that solitary playoff game.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
And so they're not thinking that though, John, you know,
they're not thinking that.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Now though maybe right like, could that be could this
be a sign that maybe they're starting to think, Oh,
look at next year's draft and what we could potentially do.
Now they've got potentially twelve picks in that draft, so
it's a possibility. Of course, they're going to gout and
sign Aaron Rodgers, and everything I say is going to
be completely rendered moot and irrelevant at that point because
they will be leading back into the old way of
(05:48):
doing things, and I'll be frustrated again. But I do
think this is a move for the future, as well
as considering we can't have two guys that are like
this on our offense. Both guys. People will say their
strengths are redundant. That is true, but I think that's
more livable than their weakness is being redundant. You can't
have two fumble too often. Yet if two guys are
on drop passes and make mistakes as route runners in
(06:10):
terms of the spacing and understanding the construction of where
they're supposed to be on the field in relationship to
each other. Two guys one guy like that you live
for for the splash plays, the big plays down the field.
You can live with it. Two guys like that, I
just think is too much. I just think that is
a really difficult space to live in as an offense,
especially when you are hopefully at some point going to
be playing a young quarterback, whether it's Will Howard, and
(06:33):
you're going to need those pieces to be consistently where
they're supposed to be. Two guys are just they're just
that high variance and also will fight the opposing team's
defensive backs and get in the lead the league and penalties.
It's just too much to have in one room. It's
too much to have on the field at the same time.
And that was a big concern too.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, that makes sense to me.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
To me, it says nothing about how they view themselves
this year, next year, or anything. I just think they
wanted out on George Pickens. They were just not in
the George Pickens business, and they had an opportunity to
get Dk Metcalf, who is obviously a better player than
George Pickens, a more consistent, I believe leader, from everything
(07:12):
that you hear, a more you can tell me, maybe
a more willing blocker, just everything that Dk Metcalf brings you.
They are betting huge on him as a core difference maker,
and the second he was on their team, they just
were out on George Pickens because of the off the
field stuff, because maybe some inconsistencies as a player, and
(07:33):
they just waited until the moment that they got the
right price for him, and that ultimately, I think they
believe in their system enough for what it's worth. I
don't think they necessarily should that it's not going to
hurt their winning or losing ledger to get rid of
George Pickens for this year, and eventually they got what
they felt like was a fair price.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
I'd ask you, as.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Someone who is a closet Steelers fan, or maybe you're
out of the closet, I don't really know, just out there, Yeah, okay,
you're good, yes, and check out John by the way,
subscribe him on Audible's and analytics and get his great
Steelers writing, some Bucks writing, and then you get the
great podcast he does with Oli Connelly. Where were you
at with Pickens's development as a player and kind of
(08:14):
who he was after three years, because he's one of
those draft evaluations that I think almost no matter what
you say, you can say you were right three years
into his career because you've seen the ceiling plays. He
obviously is better talent wise than where he got taken
in the draft, but you've also seen the downside of
(08:34):
what people were worried about coming into the league.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Yeah, I mean one of the key aspects of this
is the fit in today's modern NFL with who George
Pickens is a player, There are no questions he catches
the ball at an extremely high level and he can
make plays in the vertical portion of the field. But
you and I know, Greg, the NFL offense asked wide
receivers to do much more than this in today's league,
especially more than ever before. If you don't know where
(08:58):
all the pieces are moving with how can dense the
league is, and how much they're bringing receivers in and
reducing their split and saying you need to play close
to the core of the formation, and if we're in
a run, you need to contribute, and if we're in
a pass, you need to know how the routes distribute,
How do the routes distribute and break up from that
point on the field. That's what teams need from their
wide receier position, especially Arthur Smith like he needs this
(09:19):
from wide receier position. If you remember back to before
the Russell Wilson, before Russell Wilson became to start in Pittsburgh,
van Jefferson out snapped, out, snapped, k outsnapped George Pickens
in a couple of games. That wasn't because Van Jefferson's
better than than George Pickens. That was because they just
simply viewed Van Jefferson as a more ideal piece for
(09:40):
the types of things they like to do in terms
of bringing a receiver close to the liner scovers. Now the
Arthur Smith conversation, we don't have time for Greg. You know,
I am very anti. I am not suggesting in any way,
shape or form. In fact, I railed against it at
the time that that was a wise way to do things.
It was not. But I'm saying that if this is
the offensive coordinator you're committed to, and other offenses as well.
You need players who are going to be able to
(10:01):
play close to the core of the formation from reduce
splits from condensed alignments, and be able to distribute their
routes from there appropriately, as well as work the middle
of the field. The struggle with Pickens is that the
things he's really good at are really valuable, but they're
only value. They're never valuable in a volume sense, like
you are rarely going to be in a game script
or a game situation in which he is getting a
(10:22):
massive volume of plays. Now, could he be developed in
something more? I'm open to that Steelers coaching, I have
been offensive coaching especially I've been highly critical of for years,
so I think it's possible. But also who he is
as a player, just knowing kind of his demeanor, in
his disposition and kind of where he wants to play,
and you know, there's just not a lot of Christmas
(10:42):
crispness and attention to detail in his game, And to me,
that's where the whole he can help into something more.
I hope, but I really would be surprised. I think
he is generally who he is. You are going to
see great things and flashes. You're going to be incredibly
frustrated at times with who he is. I don't think
he's this deva that he's painted out to be. But
I do think there's a player who is in his
(11:05):
usefulness to the league and in what he can do
in a every role, every route. Basis is really limited
in that way. Now his strengths in a better system,
and I do think Ceedee Lamb is a great compliment
to him. I think that part of it is probably
the most exciting part for Dallas. He can be effective
in that specific role for Dallas.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I think, Yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Is the fit I think in Dallas is as perfect
as it could be for George Pickens for this portion
of his career. Still just twenty four years old, just
turned twenty four in March, like has a lot of potential.
Although I did want to just stop you and ask
why don't you think he's the diva that he's painted
out to be before we move to the Cowboys fit.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
I just think he's an interesting person. I don't think
he's this He's not Deontay Johnson, where Deontay Johnson would
like get off the field and rage in the locker
room that he didn't get to Like, that's not the
kind of player we're talking about here. I mean, this
guy is just kind of oblivious more than anything, Like
Pickens kind of lives in his own world. A defensive
back slights him, he bodies like the guy in the play,
Like that's He's just kind of like a short fuse,
(12:04):
like narrow focused. Guy doesn't always sense the full moving picture.
I think he leaves a game, leaves the field after
a game, and in ten seconds is gone, like it's
just flushed, whether it's good or bad. I just I mean,
this guy didn't know that Joey Porter Junior made the
first interception of his career in the game against Baltimore
when he picks off Lamar Jackson at the ends of
one of the biggest games of the year. They asked
why the postgame presser. He had no idea. He's like
(12:24):
Joey Porter gonna pick tonight. He just was the biggest
play in the game. Like he didn't know that Mack
Canada was fired until the next day when he came
into the building, Like he didn't know that it happened
on a Tuesday. He came in Wednesday morning. He was
talking to music. I just found out when I came in.
I'm like, so, that's the kind of guy we're talking about.
I just think he's sort of it's George Pickens focus,
but it's not in like an antagonistic way at all.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
And yet, yeah, when he is in the air and
there's a defensive back in front of him and he's
trying to pluck that ball out of the air like,
he's kind of a genius. It's why I loved him
so much coming out of Georgia. There was just enough
of those plays. And maybe he hasn't developed enough as
a route runner and a separator and all that, but
there are enough of those plays that I saw that
(13:06):
and I thought, that's got to work. Unless he's a
total knucklehead, and I don't think like in terms of
like loving to play the game. He exhibits a love
of playing the game. When he's out there, he's competitive.
I think that's got to work. And I think it's
important to mention as we kind of transition to Dallas
that it has worked.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
In three years. This is what he's done.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
He's caught one hundred and seventy four passes, for almost
three thousand yards twenty eight hundred yards, so he's averaged
almost one thousand yards a season. He led the NFL
in yards per catch as in his second year as
a twenty two year old eighteen point one yards per catch.
He's averaged sixteen point three yards per catch for his career.
(13:48):
I'm not saying that he's a number one that you
build an offense around, but that's fantastic production just looking
at it from a late second round pick. And now
you go to Dallas where you're not the number one.
And now we'll get into the fit a little bit
with CD Lamb. You are with a quarterback Dak Prescott,
who I feel like I haven't talked about at all
(14:09):
this offseason, and I'm sort of fascinated what he's going
to look like now in this Brian Schottenheimer offense, and
you bring Clayton Adams over from Arizona, but it doesn't
seem like they're really, you know, making an Arizona type
of offense. But you're with a guy in Cede Lamb
that's it's so talented, and you're going to be on
the outside in theory in that Michael Gallup type of role.
But a better version of it. And you're with a
(14:30):
guy in Dak Prescott who throws a beautiful deep ball,
it's probably a better fit. And the thing it reminded
me of is the Cowboys have had some success with
getting these receivers in for the honeymoon season, and hearing
that George Pickens doesn't want to sign a contract right
now because he wants to go off, you would think
you're going to get the best version of George Pickens
(14:51):
this year, like Roy Williams way back in the day
or t O when they brought him back in back
in the day. I do think you'll probably get the
best vers version of Pickens. He's with a great quarterback
and a great wide receiver. And that's why for the
Cowboys a third round pick, even without the long term security,
I think they're trying to win this year. I think
it makes sense for them.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
If it's going to work for them, George Pickens needs
to get back to being the best, like above the
rim contested catch receiver in the NFL. That's really the path,
because I would be just shocked if all the rough
edges of his game ever round out. But they don't
necessarily need that from him. You mentioned it right with
Ceedee Lamb. He doesn't need to be the number one option.
He doesn't need to be the guy you run your
offense through. He needs to be the splash play creator.
(15:33):
And the biggest way he can do that is when
he gets five targets a game, because that might be
what it is in this offense within his role. When
he gets that sort of distribution in the passing game,
can he make three of those awesome plays down the field?
Can he be the guy who Avere who leads the
league the average ards per catch, who is back up
near his rookie year one of the best contested catch
(15:54):
seasons I have ever seen, nineteen to twenty eight contested
situations per PNFF sixty eight percent. Since then, it just
hasn't been anywhere close. He's around. He's a little under
thirty five percent over the last two years combined in
those situations, still in just about as many situations per year,
So that part hasn't changed. But some of that is
ball placement, which will be better with Dak so I
(16:14):
do think that part will matter. Watching him obviously every snap,
I think some of it's on the quarterback. I think
some of it is. Yeah, it's hard to live that
way as a receiver in a high volume role, in
contested spots, in this role, in this offense. I think
it's going to change. So I'm with you. I think
that his best ball could easily be played this year.
I think the fit with Dak Prescott is good. The
(16:36):
questions just like, how many mistakes will there be? Penalties
fumbles are a big part of it. Drops how much
mistakes will there be in terms of focus and execution.
The lady kind of puts on your offense in terms
of how you can use him. I think might be
a factor, But overall, I do think it's exciting for Dallas.
It's just a matter of this year, what's the ceiling
for the whole team? And then you gave up this third?
(16:58):
Can it be enough? Can you get him a longer
term deal? Is that even an interest to you? Do
you want to pay two wide receivers big? If not?
Was this the right move? Those are kind of the
more existential questions I think that's surround the team after
this move.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Dallas does not do well with the existential questions. They
they they do a lot of work looking at their
old draft profiles, and being like, oh, well we can
fix them.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
We want that to work.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
I mean, they had a completely bizarre off season at
running back and bringing Javonte Williams and Miles Sanders just
like really that that's what you're going to do. But
it was the trades that caught my eye was it
was the Kenneth Murray trade and like Kyer Elam's on
this roster, right, yeah, they traded for him too.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
It's just like, well, we.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Trust our draft, you know, profile, and we're going to
just give them a shot and see if that can work.
The same thing they did with Mingo. But I think
this is an upper tier version of that. And when
I mentioned selfishly at the beginning, it makes me happier.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
It's just like I.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Want to see Dak with a chance here. This is
not necessarily a bad team. It's a it's a good
a defensive roster, it's a good quarterback. The offensive line,
if it broke right, has a chance to be pretty
good or certainly like league average and improved. That I
think they have a chance. This puts the Tyler Booker
pick maybe into like a little bit of different light.
(18:17):
Do you look at their draft any differently now? Because
like that was the debate at twelve, you would have
thought they would have taken Matthew Golden there maybe at BUKA,
that's what I thought they were going to do. And
they take Tyler Booker and they're going to be on
TV John, whether you like it or not. And I
just feel like they're going to be more entertaining and competitive,
and that's all I really care about.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
I'm not a kid.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
I agree with that. I mean again, I think that
you can quibble with the move, and you can certainly
find flaws and say like, hey, this is a risk
and we could look back and it could look bad,
there's no doubt. But again, if you don't have any risk,
like what are you doing? As there was no way
Dallas was getting out of it this offseason. If they
weren't gonna they were not going to improve unless they
took on some level of risk. You have to take
it on. So I was surprised by one thing, Greg.
(19:01):
I think it's worth pointing out they I thought they
really like negotiating wise, maybe they lost the plot a
little bit, and that where they ended up giving up
as interesting because before the draft they're offering a fourth
it sounds like it was, and that was kind of
what I heard at the time, was that Dallas and
maybe some other teams were interested in Day three they
would give up a Day three pick for pickings before
(19:22):
during the draft, but there really wasn't a Day two
pick on the table, and that's how Pittsburgh wanted, obviously,
so Pittsburgh kind of waits it out. I'm not sure
where they were at, whether they were somebody will eventually
come around, or we'll just keep them, if you know,
if we're not getting any good compensation for him. Obviously,
I think they wanted to move them, but they just
didn't want to surrender him for nothing. They end up
getting the twenty twenty six third round pick from Dallas
and a pretty a favorable Day three swap for them,
(19:44):
which surprised me. I thought they would be the one.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
That's a part I agree they to be clear, they
got a Day three swap where they moved the Steelers
moved up from the sixth to the fifth. Not a
huge deal, but I was surprised that they had to,
you know, throw an extra to make it happen.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Yeah, part was interesting to me, But either way, I
think they get end up with the Day two pick
in twenty twenty six. Now, I actually think for Dallas
they probably they clearly preferred that to giving one up
in twenty twenty five. For Pittsburgh, I actually liked the
twenty twenty six one. I mean, knowing where Dallas is
sort of in the order, maybe was favorable to them
because Dallas was was picking higher than I mean, that's
(20:20):
probably right around the range for them. Maybe they'll be
a little they hope to be a little bit lower
obviously this year. But I think for Pittsburgh that twenty
twenty six drafts specifically of positions they might need to me.
I just I wasn't as high on the wide receiver
class this year as I know some people were. I
think the cornerback class was one of the weakest in
years in terms of where it dropped off after the
top guys. So if you're looking at third round picks
(20:40):
this year, the talent at those spots, and then especially
in the offensive line, which is three position groups, I
expect the Steelers will be really interested in outside of
quarterback next year really not ideal for the Steelers this year,
and then also quarterback right next year is probably a
year that they want to be in position they maybe
make a move. So to me, the pick in twenty
twenty six is actually more valuable to the Steelers given
(21:02):
their long term whether you want to say it's goals,
I'm hoping it's goals. Whether it's goals or where they
just will be inevitably, whether they like it or not,
I think that twenty twenty six PI actually ends up
making more sense for them, and maybe more sense for
Dallas too. I am just surprised that Dallas was willing
to give that up, because I don't think there was
another team from what I've heard with was willing to
give him that kind of conversation.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Maybe by old Boss Florio helped push it along because
he wrote an article on Tuesday round Monday rather saying
Jerry Jones said during the draft, hey we've got these
big trades coming. We're working on a big trade, wait
and see it. And he writes this articles like, hey,
where's that big trade you were talking about? And it
was now in hindsight, probably always clearly this George Pickens.
(21:44):
They were probably working on it. I have a feeling
and felt good that at some point it was going
to happen. But maybe maybe he pushed it over the
goal line asking for it, like you'd be surprised how
things happen in this league quickly on the Steelers, and
then we'll get to just some other news. I'll say
goodbye to you. DK metcalf is their number one, Like
that is a huge upgrade. But man, the rest of
their receiver group is roughs. Robert Woods people are expecting
(22:06):
is like, like, I don't know if Robert Woods is
going to make that team. He wasn't able to contribute
to Houston last year. He's the contract doesn't indicate that
he's necessarily even definitely on the team. We'll see obviously
a great career, but he's at the.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
End of it.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Calvin Austin, who has been an okay role player, I
guess as like your four, Scottie Miller, Roman Wilson, their
third round pick from a year ago, who they hope
develops into a slot guy. Ben Scaronik. I mean, it's
it's rough. There are some receivers out there. Amari Cooper
is still out there, Keenan Allen is still out there there,
(22:38):
Gabe Davis is now out there. There are guys I
feel like they need to add one of those guys
just just as like another professional to give a shot.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Yeah, I remember we're talking about Arthur Smith again, and
I want to be on the record. I am not
recommending this for do not try this at home, kids,
Do not try this offense at home. However, Greg, this
is an offense that we know over the years with
other Smith he said, give me one guy to run
the off of the passing attack through, give me a
playable option at tight end. They have those two things.
The other receivers need to be able to just fill roles.
(23:08):
That's what he wants. And so when you look at
the group, yes, I agree with you, and a vacuum
Robert Woods probably should be. Will he make it? Will
he not? Going into the season. In reality, he's probably
gonna make it. And he's probably gonna make Yeah, because
he can play condensed, he's an adult in the room,
and he can block. And those are three things that
he wants. I mean, who is his number two? Mac
Collins was the guy that he valued. Is his number two? Like,
(23:31):
that's what he wants. He wants guys who can do
that tough guy stuff over the middle of the field.
Scourneck fits that mold. They're hoping that Roman Wilson fits
that mold as well. That'll be a big question. He
barely he was hurt. Like last year, he kept getting
nicked up, so whether he can fill that role, I
was lower on him the consensus. Again, for the record,
I'm trying to explain the Steelers perspective. I don't think
there's really a great other option in the room at all.
(23:53):
Calvin Austin is a different type of player, like a
vertical threat wide receiver from the slot who I think
can replace some of the like pass obvious downs, field
stretching ability. He's a guy that actually I thought was
really similar to Jalen Nole. Since we've been talking drafts
of labor, people liking guys that the vertical threat from
the slot just running every route of full speed stretches
the field for everybody else, So at least guys that
(24:15):
can fit. Again, it's more of who can fill the
role and function in the actual offensive system, even if
they're not graded or I have no special traits at it,
rather than who's the most talented guy, and fans sort
of think of, oh pickings more talented one hundred percent?
Can the other guys just literally run what Arthsman needs
them to do better and more versatile than Pickens. Perhaps. However,
(24:35):
I would say the ceiling on that offense of structure
and idea is so incredibly low. Never tried at home,
as I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah, I mean, I just mean there's some other guys
who can play it, Like, yeah, let's get into the
rest of it. Is Gabe Davis got cut by the Jaguars,
which is quite a statement considering they owed him eleven
million dollars guaranteed this year, a total disaster of a signing.
But show did Buffalo. He could be a useful enough
roleplay as a vertical threat. He should be on a
team somewhere. And maybe that's the bet they're making, that
(25:04):
there's offsets in his contract and they'll have to pay
slightly less. But man, that was a bold statement. Like
whether it's a Gabe Davis, I don't know if Keenan
Allen makes sense. I don't know if Amari Cooper makes sense.
I just mean you are you are a dk metcalf
hamstring in jewry away from just I don't know how
you're throwing a forward pass if you're the if you're
(25:24):
the Steelers, any any thoughts on Gabe Davis now available.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Yeah, he'd be interesting, I think. I mean, when he
was in Buffalo, I feel just the verticality of who
he is as a player feels like it would be
valuable for an offense that needed that. Nowther Steelers have
a couple of those types of pieces. The type of
piece they really need is like what Robert Woods was
in his prime or you know, I don't think they
were going to take a Mechaguka, but like that type
of player and so, but again, they probably weren't going
(25:50):
to take him, even if the Bucks didn't, because they
don't really value that role in this offense. That wide
res your two roles. So it's just a value proposition,
I think to them. And so I think from their perspective,
like if this if they were going to be at
their best or most effective as an offense. Just you're
looking across the league. For get Arthur Smith, a player
like that who could block, were condensed morek the middle
of the field, make tough catches though, that would be
(26:13):
the prototype of what they'd be looking for. So I
think hoping that Robert Woods can provide that is probably
you know, not ideal. Could Gabe Davis Phil a role
could he be, you know, a piece on this team
given where their cores at? For sure, that's possible. I
think Keenan Allen's about cooked. I'm not sure i'd be
that into.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah, I agree, I agree.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I'm naming him because I'm regretting putting him in my
top one oh one at the end.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
I think he was at eighty three.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
You know, he finished the season with sub productive and
he's Keenan Allen. There's always some hope that he could
bounce back, but it's thin out there. Those players are
not easier to find. Knowing the Steelers lately, they're more
likely to wait till cut down and then sign like
Braxton Barrios from the Texans as their fourth receiver or something.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Like that, because the names come up.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Actually, yes, I'm glad you mentioned that Allen hard If
Rogers is there, his Binkie could could come with him.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
It kind of makes sense.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Joking.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
That's the thing is can can Rogers even I don't
think he could take advantage of George Pickens at this
point of his career. Just is unwilling to go deep
down the field. Can't Can he get the best at
a dk Metcalf h we'll see. I did want to
mention Dallas Goddter reportedly is agreeing to a rework deal
with the Philadelphia Eagles. The Eagles had made it pretty
clear all off season that he was potentially available for
(27:29):
a trade. Definitely, we're kind of putting the screws to him.
I believe to take some sort of pay cut. We
don't have the details on that yet, but I would
expect that he took some sort of pay cut to stay,
so that that's a win for the Eagles.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Yeah, I think it always made more sense for him
to stay, in my opinion, Like I just felt like
he's a pivotal piece when he's healthy for them, I
think because they ask him to do stuff not every
title in the league can do, and they've really developed
him they I mean, they've kind of made the monster.
And when Tucker Craft came out, I was like this,
I hope he can be Dallas Goddter, and I think
he's on that path to be that type of player.
(28:02):
But I think just what Goddard does as a blocker
in the move, how he can play from different lignements,
the fact that he can catch screen, you can line
up as a wide out and little gitially run those routes,
catch screens and be a threat, and he just he's
not dominant maybe at any one thing. Maybe I mean
at times as a blocker. When he's been healthy, there's
been some really nice stretches for him, but he's really
good at a lot of different stuff, and they really
(28:24):
need a piece like that with where they're at and
their window. It just it sort of made sense that
they found a way to stay together, and I'm glad
that they did.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah, I'm always a little dubious of on off splits
or the equivalents in football, but man, when when he
wasn't on the field, you felt that difference because it
was such a big falloff from their two great outside
receivers to not really having anyone reliable insights. So I'm
glad they worked that out. But I think it was
just they felt they felt like they couldn't rely on
him to stay on the field enough. But they got
(28:52):
through the draft, they didn't end up with a high
pick tight end, and they're they're all going to be
back there on offense twenty twenty five, which helps Jalen
hurts out a lot, and then before we go. I
just wanted to kind of close the circle. On Monday's show,
we actually talked at length about the Justin Tucker situation
and the wording that John Harbaugh had about how interesting
(29:15):
it was.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
He said, football decisions.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
If we cut Justin Tucker, it will be a football decision,
And in fact, since we talked about it, they did
cut him, And that was the most notable thing about
it for me. The quote from Eric DeCosta when they
released him. He said, sometimes football decisions are incredibly difficult.
This is one of those instances. And then the tone
of it very complimentary of Justin Tucker and how tough
(29:39):
it was to release him, and they sincerely wish him
in his family the very best in this next chapter
of their lives. And I just wanted to say, well,
I found the tone of it off putting, with the
sixteen sexual assault allegations that went into it, and them
leading with football decisions so clearly in their statement. I
(29:59):
also just I think it was a legal thing that
they do not want Justin Tucker or the NFLPA to
come after them, and frankly, I would have expected them
to bring in another kicker and potentially cut Tucker or
make them compete for his job this year anyways. And
I don't necessarily believe that the off field stuff didn't
have a factor, but that's just what they put because
they are covering their own ass. We have seen that
(30:21):
a lot in the NFL. You have covered us gloriously.
John Ledyard. I'm going to get you off to your
day because I know you're busy, but I appreciate you
stepping in at the last second and talking a little.
George Pickens to the Cowboys. The Cowboys are going to
be more interesting. I don't know if that'll be true
with the Steelers, if it's like Mason Rudolph throwing to
(30:41):
Roman Wilson.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
And We for seven. Maybe not in Toy twenty no.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
But I do expect Rodgers has got to be there eventually.
Sorry about that, John, wrap it up. We will be
back for our final show of the week. It's actually
going to go up Friday morning. That's going to be
with Nick Chuck. Very excited about that one.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Until then.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yes, the Dallas Cowboys actually given us some news to
talk about in the middle of May.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Thank you, Jerry Jones. Football's back
Host
Gregg Rosenthal
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