October 28, 2025 • 49 mins
Gregg Rosenthal and Jourdan Rodrigue preview the Week 9 Thursday Night Football matchup between the Ravens and Dolphins. First, Gregg and Jourdan get you caught up on news from around the NFL including the Saints naming Tyler Shough their Week 9 starter (02:09), Patrick Surtain II's status (04:30), Brian Thomas Jr.'s trade potential (07:15) and more. After the break, Gregg and Jourdan tell you what is haunting people around the NFL including why penalties are haunting Ben Johnson (15:53), the Steelers defense is haunting Mike Tomlin (20:45) and the Colts are haunting Gregg (33:40). Finally, a preview of the Ravens on the road to take on the Dolphins on Thursday Night Football (41:20).
Note: time codes approximate.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome two NFL Daily. I'm Greg Rosenthal and I'm here
in the Chris Westling podcast studio. Surprised by everything about
this intro and I love it. Yes, it's going to
(00:35):
be a spooky version of NFL Daily aka the Latest
Meeting of Honkers Anonymous, myself.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
And Jordan Rodrige the Haunted Honkers.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Yeah, we're here.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
We're here in the studio and we're going to be
talking about what we're haunted by a little later in
the show. Honking Anonymous would have been the better title.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
We both like the.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Hun sounds like I'm just like a medio.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah, credit, we both you know, if we were basketball players, Jordan,
we'd both have high usage rates.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
You know, Colleen will be back, you know, I know that.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I know the schedule has been a little crazy on
the see you next Tuesdays, but I'm really excited the
next couple of weeks we have big shows planned. Colleen
back in the mix for those. And yes, QB Island
just two weeks from now, and I noticed it's been
pretty stable. If you look at the players on QB Island,
they're all playing great other than Lamar Jackson, who's been hurt,
but he's coming back on Thursday, and he's still Lamar
(01:34):
freaking Jackson. So we'll talk about the Thursday night football
game in just a little bit.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
The city is a buzz, I know, Dodgers, Glee.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
We all stayed up and watched the game electric eighteen innings.
I was telling you before the show, I went to
bed the minute that Shohan Fannie said I would like
to be asleep as soon as possible.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
A good sign. Yeah, if he says it, you should
listen to that. Man.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I was at the last eighteen inning World Series game,
so it's a reminder that doesn't mean just because you
win that one that it's going to carry over.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Let's talk some news. Let's talk some NFL.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
We have a decent amount of news right off the
top of the show. Then we'll get to that segment
and TNF. Let's start with the latest quarterback change. Tyler
Shuck will start difficult first matchup against the Los Angeles
Rams defense.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
It's been playing well lately, good pass rush.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Obviously the timing does make sense, even though it's unfair.
It's like you know, you tell children very often, life
is not fair. I don't think this changes fair to
Spencer Rattler, and yet I totally understand it.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
I think both things can be true.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Multiple things can be true. We love to say that
in here.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
This is a.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Tough draw to get for your first your first NFL start,
if you're Tyler Shuck, because as you mentioned, it's not
just that the Rams front is Front seven's playing very
very well and really aggressive rushing the past or stopping
the run really well.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
You know, they're also.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Coming off of bye week, so not only that, but
they are rested. So this is a tough draw if
you're Tyler Shuck.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
I thought he looked good when I went to rewatch
you know live. I was kind of looking at results
and thinking about the three pretty off target throws that
I think Tyler Shuck is going to have. I don't
think he's as accurate a quarterbacks as Rattler, for instance,
but I think he's going to have more high level throws.
And I thought he was relatively decisive in that game.
(03:33):
They moved the ball a little bit.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
I get it. He's your number forty overall.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Pick the Rattler things thinks, because I think he played
really well for six weeks. But looking big picture for
the Saints, I think they kind of got exactly what
they needed to out of the Rattler evaluation. I think
he earned himself a solid eight to ten years in
the league by the way he played these first six weeks,
and he's going to be a good backup for either
(03:57):
the Saints or another team, or maybe get a chance
to start somewhere else line. I think they learned that
about him, and now you find out about the second round.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
He could even become the new prime meridian for backup
quarterbos eventually in his career trajectory.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I could see it happening. I really could.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
I think he gives you enough to potentially be on
that type of trajectory.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
The weird thing is, I felt like he had sort
of a Kellen Moore governor on him the whole time,
like he wasn't playing as truly freestyling way of football.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
But he did it really well.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
And then I think he got a little too amped
up for that Caleb game and it just it just
went a little south. But he didn't even play that
that bad. It's just time to see the young kid.
Let's talk about who's not going to be on the
field this week, including Patrick Tirtan.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
He is week to week with a pex strain.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
The insiders did that thing where they were like, this
is good news. It's like, no, it's not good news,
Like that would be very painful if you had a
peck strain and he's missing games, and multiple insiders Ian
Rappaport included said he could go to IR, which is
usually a pretty strong indication. He will go to IR
at some point, I'm guessing later this week. So you know,
(05:02):
the Broncos without Sirtana, it'll be an interesting test of
a really good defense, a good secondary, but removing the
defensive player of the year.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, well, I thought that they.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
I thought Van Joseph had a good schematic plan based
on you know, missing him in and out of the
game throughout the first half before he finally left the
game for good after that first half, you know, and
we were worried about this because when I saw that
shot of him walking to the locker room, he wasn't
grabbing his shoulder. He was grabbing like right to the
outside of his armpit, which indicated that it was going
to be a pectoral issue. I think where you're relieved
(05:32):
everything's relative is that it's not torn. If it's torn, obviously,
you're just not coming back. At least there's a chance,
especially potentially activation before the postseason if he does go
on ir that this a strain or a sprain can
heal a little bit.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
But it's the safety. I thought the safety's played fine.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
The problem that they're going to have is that everybody's
going to throw at Riley Moss and try to draw
these penalties.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
And also that Jday Barron.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
We saw really good stuff from him last week, but
that hasn't really been consistent throughout the entire season.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So while I do think they.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Got really good, a really good performance in light of
the sudden changed circumstances of having your best defensive player
on and off the field repetitively through the first half,
they I thought they looked really solid and having a
whole week to plan for this. Yes, there's a drop
off without Patrick Certan, but I do think that vance
Joseph Scott some good scheme to help play around Madison.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
It's funny because Riley Moss might get targeted less now
because he's the best quarterback.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Because people see the flags flying every single time, and
they're like, still still going to try to get this
guy to to p.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I I loved Bomani Jones's take last week that the
past interference against Riley Moss at the end of that
game against the Giants was racist, that they just they
didn't believe that Riley could play such good cover. It
was a terrible call, but he's the best quarterback probably
on the team. They brought in Chris Abrams Drain for
a lot of that game, and then you mentioned today Baron,
(06:55):
which people probably haven't been tracking as much but was
a really highly thought of first round pick added to
a deep secondary. Lost the slot cornerback job pretty early
in the season to Jakwon McMillan. Hasn't really played that much,
so he might get in the mix a lot more too.
And they've got a lot of big games coming up
on the schedule, including the Kansas City Chiefs in two weeks.
Looking forward to that, we got the trade deadline coming up.
(07:16):
We did the most interesting potential trade targets me and
Nick Shook. We had a couple receivers on that list.
Check out Monday Night's show if you want that. That's
after the Chiefs Commander's recap. Brian Thomas Junior was not
on that list because we wanted to go with the
most realistic ones, and this one felt a little far fetched,
although possible interesting. Liam Cohen addressed the report from the
(07:40):
athletics Diana Rassini that Brian Thomas Junior could potentially be available.
Speaker 5 (07:46):
We have no plans on moving Brian Thomas Junior at all.
Saw something about that over the weekend, but I mean
I talked to him for a good amount of time
this morning, and it's just a reset for a lot
of these guys to come in fresh four and three
with everything ahead of us, regardless, good batter and different
(08:09):
what's happened in the first seven games. We all have
an opportunity to write a narrative. We own the narrative,
and so I got a lot of confidence in him.
I really do believe that we can turn the corner
and get better in the pass game that way.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Not a lot surprises me from the insiders.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
But when I saw that note in Diana's column over
the weekend, and she usually has some pretty good nugs
in there, I thought, where is that coming from.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
That's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
That is not what the Jaguars obviously would want out
there at a precarious point in their season.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Well in it that's why he responded that way.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Maybe, I mean sometimes coaches are two face er. Sometimes
there's different parts of the organization that have different agendas.
Either way, it got out there. You're right, it probably
wouldn't be from the Jaguars. They would not want that
to be out there. And he said he addressed it,
you know, with Brian Thomas Junior personally for a while,
but not out there for nothing. So I find that interesting.
(09:07):
It has to come from somewhere. Maybe it's other teams, China, maybe.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
A motivational tactic. I don't know.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
There's a lot of different reasons why there's a lot
of different things at a lot of different times before
the trade deadline.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Brian Thomas Junior is a second year player, though, would
he hate being traded away from UH A guy who
just throws a bunch of hospital balls in a system
that's not quite working for him? Man, if he was available,
that would be fascinating. I find this Jaguars team still
as fascinating.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Well, he's saying he's not available. He's pretty much shutting
the doors.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
He said he had no plans.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
I've heard a lot of coaches say we have no plans,
which is to me the ultimate ninety five percent. He's here,
but I can always say plans k.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Jared Goff is our quarterback right now.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Right now is even more dangerous. Se that's where you
mark it down from like ninety five percent to fifty percent.
Get a first round pick for Brian Thomas Junior. Hell yeah,
you get a first round plus. I'd still I'd still
evaluate him as like a top ten to twelve wide
receiver quote unquote asset in the league, just because of
the contract and because of his age. But it is
(10:09):
fascinating that you have to look at both Trevor Lawrence
and Brian Thomas Jr. And say they were playing better
last year.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Weird.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
There's a lot of good stuff in that. The Roger
McCrary kind of she had that Diana was circulating the
Roger McCreary reporting, and he did get traded.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
The Rams picked him up.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
The Rams needed cornerback help with a Kello Witherspoon on
injured reserve right now, they're hoping it's short term, short
ish term. It's like a twelve week recovery process for
a Kello Witherspoon, and their coverages have been really dictated
by that injury. And Darius Williams is a little banged up.
So trading for Roger McCreary was a thing that they
had to do.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Why why are the Titans just desperate to get off
useful cornerbacks? They traded him for nothing. It was a
fifth to sixth round swap. I didn't mention it very
briefly on Monday night, but I found that mystifying. I
know he's coming to the end of his contract, but
he's he's a good young player. The last good young
player they traded away was Jarvis Brownly, who immediately became
(11:05):
like one of the jets better players in the secondary.
So I just don't get what's the point of trading
if you don't get literally anything back. You mentioned IR
and injuries for the Rams. The Rams put two to
Atwell on IR, and I mentioned that in context with
something you noted how players can be traded off IR,
(11:25):
which not that interested in Atwell, who could be a
rotational piece for someone. But Trevon Diggs was placed on
IR for the Cowboys after what was reported as a
concussion and he's still in the concussion protocol. But after
a week being out with a concussion, then they placed
(11:46):
him on injured reserve, and Jerry Jones indicated that Digs
needed to be in better shape. In a press conference
after last Cowboys.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Game, Jerry Jones just said some what.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah and sorry, Look, they indicated they indicated that, look,
maybe he wasn't physically ready to be back from his
torn acl Michael Parsons, for instance, was asked about it,
and he said he thought the Cowboys really did Travon
Diggs dirty by essentially forcing him to get ready for
(12:23):
Week one when he physically wasn't ready.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
He's been on the field all year.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
And we say all this because Trevon Diggs was a
first team All Pro four years ago and then a
good Player of the year after that. He did back
up that season, and this contract in this injury has
just been fascinating, so weird and not good for the
Cowboys defense. And I do think what is I do
think the Cowboys could potentially take advantage of that rule
that you can trade players on IR with Diggs specifically.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Yeah, and it's interesting that you've seen some difference making
players move that way. A keep to lead was traded,
you know, twenty eighteen after that rule change.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
So yeah, we'll keep an eye on that, you mentioned
the PEX strain being a relief for Patrick Surtan. Unfortunately
no relief for the Bills and Ed Oliver he has
a torn biceps.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
It's a bummer.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
He's just the biggest difference maker they have upfront right now.
Joey Bosa has been okay, they're adding Michael Hoyt and
Ogunjobi into the mix, but that's a tough one because
they're very likely not going to get him back this year.
Maybe there's some scenario if they make the Super Bowl
deep in the playoffs that it becomes a question. But
barring a trade, and I think they are about as
(13:36):
likely as literally any team in the NFL to make
an eye opening trade. And I think defensive line would
maybe be their number one target.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Yeah, it's I mean it should be there down to
and listen, like Michael Hoyt's a good player, Larry Ogunjobi's
a good players, has had some really good years, but
they still they're so thin along that defensive line. It's
like Dean Walker, who's showed flashes, got some stuff to him,
showed flashes, but you can't account for depth and you
need more of it. So that's where I would say, yeah,
(14:05):
I would think the Bills are on the phones right
now trying to figure out what to do next.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, and that trade deadline is a week from today,
so we got a lot going on. Next week we'll
do some mid season content. We'll do some trade deadline recap.
It'll be fun wrapping up the news before we take
a little break.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Just some quick notes.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Carson Schwessinger, who I had as the defensive rookie of
the year so far, has a high ankle sprain. Reportedly
not a particularly bad version of that olthough I don't
think there's any great versions, and they're in a bye
so maybe he doesn't miss too much time.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
He can still go get that award. You mentioned the
McCreery trade.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Shamar Turner, who is a high draft pick for the Bears,
was getting snaps there and their defensive line rotation has
a torn acl He is out for the season.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
My Patriots signed Marcus Jones.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
We've been talking about the breakout season for Marcus Jones,
who's got a three year deal. Good business by them.
Not just great on special teams, but really having a
an awesome season at cornerback, playing better than Carlton Davis
for instance, who's you know, getting seventeen twenty million dollars
a year.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
And then the Bengals. I'm sorry to bring this.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Up, guys, but they had a player's only defensive meeting.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
So that's season's over. Stick a forking them done.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
As it turns out, you can only somewhat revive your
season when you have players only meetings but people are
either late or don't show up to them.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Well here's the thing though, the Dolphins, glad you mentioned
that they had a lot of those players only meetings,
and then they got blasted by the Browns, and from
everything I heard, no players only meetings the week after,
and then now they're back in our lives.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
All right, let's take a quick break, and when we
come back, we're going to do a segment what we're
haunted by NFL daily.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
We're festive love Halloween week. Love that it's kind of
turning into a week. Maybe that's because it was on
(16:11):
Friday this year, but there were a lot of Halloween
parties last weekend. I was in New Orleans the Halloween
Parade last weekend. Everyone was out in the quarter in
their costumes already.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
So this has been a long.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Billbo I'm being neighborhood dad and having everyone come over
before we all go out trick or treating.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
So I gotta get some.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Are you gonna wear a costume?
Speaker 3 (16:38):
I'm not gonna wear a costume.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
I was gonna say, let's not kick, let's have crazy.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
I have and I would.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
And if someone just like made it very easy for
me came up with a good idea like that I
could execute it, maybe I would do it.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
I feel like your I feel like you could come
up with some really good ideas that they would be
so niche like.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
No, I'm not into like being creative. I'm more into, like,
wear something inflatable. Inflatable like the wavy arms guy from
the car dealership.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
That was a big one.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I need this now, I need to see this.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
I got some good pictures. It's on the ig.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
The segment what we're haunted by, maybe what people in
the NFL are haunted by. It's a little open ended.
I will let you start.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Well, Ben Johnson and the Chicago Bears are absolutely haunted.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
By all the penalty Oh okay, yes.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
The penalties.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Greg sixty four penalties or five hundred and thirty three
total yards.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Twenty six of.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Those are pre snap penalties. They have a twenty eight
penalty differential on their opponents this season, and that's those
numbers are per Scott Bear and Josh Dubou and it's staggering.
Ben Johnson seems to be closer and closer to his
complete breaking point when it comes to like expressing his
(17:56):
true internal nerd rage over these penalties and how catastrophic
they've been. It's been start stop, start stop, start stop
through all of these games, and there's starting to be
like the passive aggressive comment, the fact, I mean, I'm
making a big deal over it. It's he started to crack,
I think a little bit.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Let's listen to him.
Speaker 6 (18:17):
We've been harping on it as a coaching staff, and
when it results in a loss, I think it just
magnifies the issue that was at hand.
Speaker 5 (18:25):
How was that message received by your your team leaders,
your captains, and then what actions would you like to
see them take this week to change those penalties?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (18:35):
I would like us to stay on side. So you know,
it's it's simple. Yeah, it's it's discipline. You know, I
think there is fed up with it is everyone is
in the building, and so uh they understand it's just
not what good football teams do. And I think they're
going to take ownership of it. I think we're going
to be just fine.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Mhm. It seems okay.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
I know I'm making it. I'm making a thing over
it because he's high hunted by it.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah, really, Greg, No, he is. Though it's been consistent.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
It's been since camp, it's been since OTA's it's stuff
that he was losing his GD mind over on the
practice field that still is not fixed, and he's mentioned
he's had some pretty loaded comments previous to these most
recent ones just about how like they are coaching it
the way he wants it to be coached. And there's
a little, I think continuation that maybe they're being inordinately
(19:24):
penalized by the officiating and all these things. You can't
say it out loud, obviously you get a fine, but
there's it's just it's it's a mess.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
All of the pre snap stuff, though, is like you
can only blame yourself ultimately. And it's a really interesting
point to make because I think it's so integral in
what they do, is all the pre snap motion and everything.
I thought it was really interesting. After the bye week,
he basically said, Okay, we were conservative and didn't essentially
(19:54):
run the offense I wanted to run the first month,
but now we're going to run it. We're going to
do all my stuff, and for the most most part
it led to better rushing performance and things looking better
when they did get the snap off. But ultimately, yeah,
they need that to be the bearst team they want
to be. Here's the good news. They played the Bengals,
potentially the worst defense in the league, and then they
(20:16):
play the Giants, which shockingly has the worst run defense
since at least my subscription for FDN Fantasy allows, which
is only to twenty seventeen, even worse than the Panthers
a week a year ago. So they have two of
the easiest possible matchups.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
The next That adds to him being haunted by this
because these are if the only reason that they can't
get this offense I think off the ground. Finally, for
good are the self inflicted penalties. I mean, I'm just
saying the nerd rage.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Yes, I love a little nerd rage.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Okay, I'm going to go more my own rage, but
it's about Mike Tomlin, and it's about this.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Pittsburgh Steeler defense and I think.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Sometimes it's the ghost of that steel Kurt. It's the
history of what the Pittsburgh Steelers are supposed to be.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Back in the nineteen seventies.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
But more than anything, it's the ghost of what Mike
Tomlin said just a couple of months ago in August,
Mike Tomlin said that this could be a historic defense.
I got some I got some clown calling me little
(21:37):
bro on Twitter, being like Tomlin never said that. Here's
the quote, little bro, I'm your big bro, you're my son. No,
here's Tomlin. We got to write that story. But we've
got enough talent, we've got enough schematics to do big,
big things. And when I say big things, I'm talking
(21:58):
about his story things. That's Mike Tomlin on August twelfth.
Fast forward two and a half months, and their offense
is performing better than I expected, better than anyone could
have expected. Twelfth in DVA they are more than doing
their part.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
What are they in defense? Number twenty two in.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Defensive DVOA, dead last in yards per drive allowed.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Bro get off the field.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Meanwhile, you got the Rooney family spending one hundred and
sixty five million dollars on this defense.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
That is more than.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Twenty five million dollars, more than any other defense in
the entire league.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
What's historic is how poorly they're playing.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
And I know this is especially tough for you to say,
because the offense is playing adequately, Greg and I and.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I know you want to hate. I know you want
to be a hater. I am a hater, and that's fine.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
But this, this is not just haunting but downright frightening
because you can invest this much, not just money but
personnel and draft picks and all of these.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Different Derrick Carmen first round pick this year, Keanu Benton struggling,
second round pick, and.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
It's just not looking like they look slow, they look older,
and they don't look like they're evolving.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Some of that.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
At the beginning of the year, you could blame on injuries.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
You know, Joey Porter was in and out, Junior was
in and out of the lineup, and at a certain
point Jalen Ramsey was dealing with a hamstring and all
of these different than Alex Heismith was out. You could
do that to a point, but now you're getting to
the point where there is nowhere else to look. And
Mike Tomlin is being asked about it.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Oh, he's looking elsewhere. Let's let's actually listen to Mike Tomlin.
This was This was part of his press conference on Tuesday.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
We certainly need to be better in third down, and
we've been, but it doesn't necessarily mean dramatic changes in
terms of stematics and things of that nature.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Why not.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
That was what got me in that quote from before,
was because of our schematics, because of our players, we
can do historic things. I think their players are really
good in the front. Yeah, I don't think it's perfect
in the secondary, but I think it's more about the
schematics that are the problem.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
And it bothered me.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
It's why I'm doing this segment that he opened his
press conference today talking about how frustrating it was that
they couldn't put together a complete game plan and that
the offense couldn't finish drives, that they were in third
and too long too often, and they settled for too
many field goals. And I'm thinking you're opening that press
conference with that when your defense, the one you said
(24:45):
was going to be historic, just gave up ninety something
points in nine hundred yards or sixty something points over
the last two weeks, and nine hundred something yards like,
look in the mirror, you should change the skmatics.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
They've been the same since since he got there.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Yeah, And what I think is probably frustrating to Steelers
fans right now and to you as well, Greg, is
that some of the changes that they did make in
terms of the personnel. And I do point to that
Jalen Ramsey trade or excuse me, yeah, the Jalen Ramsey
trade as one of them. Is you get some of
(25:20):
these players who are supposed to be and no, he's
not playing like vintage Jalen Ramsey, like let's just be
clear about that. But he has made splash plays. He
will have games, especially when he is I think set
up for what he's more able to do now at
thirty one years old, play in the slot and kind
of be that like tilt coverages and leverage different mathematical matchups.
(25:43):
And at the beginning when they when this trade happened,
it was all the sort of the running line, and
myself included was this is this is among the multiple
different gestures or signals that you're getting from this Mike
Tomlin led Steelers defense that they are going to take
another step in a different schematic direction. They are going
(26:06):
to evolve a little bit, and the production has not
matched it.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
No, And I think when he's pointing out, you know
them struggling to get off the field, it's because good coaches,
I think, know what is coming. It is a lot
of the same in man coverage, blitz type of concepts,
And if you wanted to really simplify it, I think
it's more of an execution defense. It's more about our
players are better than your players. We're not trying to
(26:35):
fool you. And it reminds me of the old uh
John McCay quote, the old Buccaneers coach when he was
asked what he thought of his offense as execution, and
he said, I'm in favorite. This is this off this defense,
it is very har executing ll not executing chop its
head off. I mean, I love Mike Tomin He's such
(26:56):
a good coach. But I think Dave Danischik has done
a good job pointing out like there's nowhere left to
point like.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
It's always blaming.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
It's always the offensive coordinator, it's always the offensive line.
And I think right now Tomlin is a big part
of the problem. All right, give me what you're haunted by.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
I think that somebody is being haunted by some previously
very strong comments.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
That we're correct made last fall.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
That is Kevin O'Connell on the Rich Eisen Show, and
he said these incredibly truthful words, I believe organizations fail
young quarterbacks before young quarterbacks fail organizations. Very true, right,
And I think credit to Kevin O'Connell for not only
speaking up something, saying something very plainly and very honestly
(27:43):
that's been an issue across the league all thirty two
for years, for decades at this point. His comments were
not and are not wrong, but they loom extra large
right now as the Vikings walk ap pretty impossible haunting
in height rope with their quarterback situation, and in light
of the Carson Wentz season ending labraam and arm socket
(28:04):
injuries and JJ McCarthy seemingly returning from a high ankle
sprain which was the reason why Carson Wentz aka the
human Shield was playing through those injuries.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
To give JJ McCarthy enough.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
Time, according to Kevin O'Connell in the organization to return
in a safe and healthy way. For me, multiple things
are true here based on all the reporting and all
on the record and radio comments and probably continued questions
and comments all throughout this week, from Kevin O'Connell, from
Carson Wentz, from everybody involved in the situation. It seems
like he was really pushing to play through this injury,
(28:43):
these multiple injuries, and that can be true, while also
teams don't protect players from themselves historically, and it's also
true that in this case, the Vikings could not really
protect the player who they have spent less resources and
invested time in, from himself, the lesser of two evils.
(29:04):
In their minds seemed to be Okay, let him play
and protect our future investment. But that's also failing a quarterback.
That's failing Carson Wentz.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Well maybe it's in the words there. He's okay failing
older quarterbacks. He just doesn't want to fail the young one.
I think you're right, and I think if you go
back to, like what could be haunting this team, it's
their off season plan. Yeah, because Carson Wentz wasn't there.
You know, they wanted to have Sam Howell. I was
forgetting that. I was like, who was their backup quarterback
(29:31):
two months ago? Was Sam Howell? You know who they
traded for that? That was a bust I think leaving
Wentz out there was brutal when you could have played
Max Brosmer last week, just at least at some point
in that particular game that happened. And so I don't
know what happened behind the scenes, but at some point
the decision was made. Carson Wentz is going to be
(29:54):
put down for the year. That might have been Carson
Wentz is like, okay, you used me. I'm good here.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
See yeah, because you can't physically play Greg.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
We literally just saw him do it, so he could
in theory, I said at the.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
Top of these comments, like everything that everyone including Carson
Wentz is saying out of Minnesota right now is he
was pushing to play through these righties. Right, So that
can be true, while also this can be a total
mess and an organizational failure. At the same time, both
of those things can be true because a player will
always want to play in an organization will nine times
out of ten not protect the player from himself.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Right, It's very rare. Both of those things are true.
Fact to the league. You don't have to like it,
fact to the league.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
But the thing is, is this franchise, because you're now
trotting out, you have two quarterbacks on the roster, JJ
McCarthy and Max Browsner.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
They're probably gonna add another guy, but it's hard.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
Because there's not a lot of people with scheme or
system familiarity. And then you're putting more resources into a
quarterback room that you already reshuffled right.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Before the start of training camp.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
You're throwing whoever's out there behind a bad offensive line
that's not playing to the level of the investment, and
some of that's injury related as well, but an offensive
line not to the level of expectation or investment, and
also a run game not to the level of expectation
or investment.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
And when you have all of that, Carson Wentz happens to.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
Be the first casualty, the first real noticeable casualty of
all of this. But you have to get this right
because you have gained the reputation through your very true
and correct actions, if with previous quarterbacks as well as
you know your reputation and your very correct words. You've
gained this reputation as a guy who gets quarterbacks and
(31:34):
is the quarterback whisper, and like to reiterate, he earned
that reputation, but it's dangling kind of precariously right now
as those words, as honest as they were, kind of
come back to haunt him and the organization because you
could argue that whether or not they got it right
with JJ McCarthy watching what happened to Carson Wentz, the
rest of the system is not succeeding around the quarterback.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
And yeah, there's nowhere to hide. I think they were
trying to set up JJ in the best chance for
success by making sure he's one hundred percent back. Look,
do I think if he had played lights out the
first two weeks of the season he would have satis long?
Speaker 3 (32:14):
I don't. I just don't.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
Yeah, well, people a lot of people are forgetting that
that he did not look good but for that one quarter, right,
and so I.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Think that was a big part of why he had
to wait to start longer. But at some point, you
know they had to play him. They they would have
been playing him. It sounds I think this week, whether
Carson Wentz was hurt or not, and it's gonna be tough.
You got the Lions and the Ravens right out the
gate for JJ McCarthy. I am curious who else they
will bring on there. But it's also an opportunity. That's
(32:42):
a great thing about the NFL. You're like one week away,
Like if they could just somehow beat the Lions, then
it's like.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
All none of this mattered.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
All that really matters is JJ McCarthy's development for the
rest of this season.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
Really, that quarter against the Bears was enough of a
wild card that I wouldn't rule I wouldn't rule it out.
He's got some gamer in him if he's feeling healthy, Like,
I just wouldn't rule it out. At the same time,
the Lions are a wagon on both sides of the ball.
And also like again this roster, this, I mean, the
defense is not playing up to the level of expectation,
the offensive line is not playing up to the level
(33:14):
of expectation. All of these things preseason that they tried
to construct in order to basically plug in and give
this quarterback like a crescendo through the course of the season.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
It's just not happening.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Bikings fans probably don't want to hear, but I'm I'm
with them, kind of where I was with Drake May
in the offseason, and like, all that matters is JJ McCarthy.
They're probably not making the playoffs this year. But if
JJ McCarthy has a positive next nine games, that's that's
kind of all that matters for the Vikings. And so
that that will start on Sunday and we'll preview that
(33:45):
game on Wednesday. Can't wait, Colts man. I have a
lot of regrets about how I evaluated the Colts.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
I'm haunted by many things when it comes to picks.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
But the over underwin totals draft, that's my baby. Hadn't
had a loss in four years of doing it. And
my number two pick this year, partly because Nick Wright took.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
The over on the Chiefs, which is looking good.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
My number two pick this year was under on the
Colt seven and a half. Not only that, a couple
of weeks ago, I flipped my pick on Game Deviut
from the Colts to the Charger. I mean, in that game,
just absolutely stupid, And there were so many reasons to
see what was coming with this Colts team. First of all,
(34:39):
that was like the most obvious everyone's piling on type
of pick. I don't want to consider myself a contrarian,
but I do find myself kind of making picks like that.
So for me to just go like a Lemming and
fall right off the cliff do exactly what Vegas wanted
me to do and take the Colts so early, like
they were going to be some sort of disaster off
based off vibes whatever was. But I should have seen
(35:01):
what was there, which is weirdly a win now team
full of incredible continuity and really good on the offensive line.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
Now, did we know Tanner.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Bordolini and you know Matt Matt Gonzales I believe he
pronounced his name. We're gonna be as good on the interior?
Probably not, but they played pretty well at the end
of last season, so there were signs there. But in
terms of the weaponry, they've all been in Shane Steiken's
system now for years. In terms of terms of their defense,
like it is a veteran group z Ire Franklin and
(35:34):
Grover Stewart and DeForest Buckner and Kenny Moore, and they
bring in Charvi Tarvarius Ward. This is not a young team,
Jonathan Taylor, Like, if this didn't work this year, obviously
they were gonna blow up, blow it up in terms
of the GM and the coach. But also I think
I sort of forgot the players that have been there
have been there for a while, and and they're good players,
and Psychen has proven he can win games without great
(35:57):
quarterback play, and so there was a lot leading up
to this season. I think that that made us just
off target. That I should have been able to see.
I should have been a seer and more than anything,
once it started happening, I really should have just trusted it.
Because I do trust it. I don't think they're going anywhere.
I don't think that means they go fifteen and two.
But I think they're the second most likely team in
(36:20):
the AFC to make the Super Bowl. And I think
the offense is going to be a wagon as you say,
all season long.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
They are, and Jonathan Taylor having this season that he's having,
I know we're too early.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
It's not even technically mid season.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
We can hand out some awards next week, so we could.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Say VP type of season.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
You could say like that he would be your Offensive
Player of the Year.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
So far, he's playing incredibly well. They're explosive, they are
getting you know, their success rate on conversions is like
some over fifty percent and then some it's incredible.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
They are. They're fantastic, and I think a lot of
what was.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
Maybe the bias that a lot of us, myself included,
came into the season with was this sense that Chris
Ballard was just going to do the stubborn thing again
and that kind of carry Shane Stikeen along in the
undertow with him in terms of sticking with Anthony Richardson
and trying to make that work because of the investment
and because of the evaluation that they had on him,
(37:20):
because the investment they had made into him.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
And that's not what happened.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
Instead, they pivoted from a decision that you know, I
think say they pivoted into the right one. Whether or
not we still know what Anthony Richardson can eventually be,
we don't, I don't think, but you can say they
pivoted into the correct decision, and they did it kind
of without that fear of embarrassment, I guess, of the
(37:45):
first decision that they had made to invest in him
in the first place. And I think that it's like
we should have just read the tea leaves with Daniel
Jones choosing to go there despite the fact that Minnesota
he had just been in Minnesota with Kevin o'can donald,
And does.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
He get credit, does ocnnall get credit for helping to
restart Daniel Jones's career or blame that they could have
just paid him sixteen million dollars.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Also could have paid Sam Donald just saying.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Right, but they could have paid Daniel Jones a backup
type of contract.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
He's sort of in between.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
But they could have paid him twenty five million dollars
less than Sam Donald and kept Daniel Jones.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
I'm gonna say I give him more blame than credit.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
Well, I'm going to say I give I give Daniel
Jones credit for going where he could see a roster
and believe it would be successful, and so like we
should have all followed Daniel Jones honestly.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
But I will say.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
I'm still stuck on you saying you're not a contrarian
like I got stuck on that at the beginning of
your comment.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
No, I said, I would.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Not want to still stuck.
Speaker 5 (38:45):
Now.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
What I was saying was I, which is kind of
a funny thing for a contrarian to I would not
want to think of myself that way.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
But I'm I'm open, I mean.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
On the internet that I'm the contrarian exactly.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
I'm basically saying that I recognize that in myself.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
All right, one more thing that's taunting you.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Well, you know I'm an optimist, so I picked something
that is hauntingly.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
Beautiful, like a treasured spirit that's come into your life
or a treasured soul from your past. This is the
Chargers offense, specifically out of their heavier personnel groupings with
Joe alt back and activating Scott Mattlock at fullback, and
activating all of these different tight ends including Omari and
Gadson in the passing game, so you could stay in
(39:28):
the heavier personnel. Kimani Vidal twenty three of his carries,
or on his twenty three carries last week, twenty of
them were out of a heavier personnel. So that's either
with a fullback added, or multiple tight ends added, or
six offensive linemen and a fullback added in Scott Mattlock
(39:49):
Jared Patterson not on his eleven carries, ten of them
were in heavier personnel.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
This is all according to next Gen stats.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
The Chargers had two hundred seven total rushing yards, including
sixty two by Justin Herbert, who clearly feels more confident
using his legs and especially when they can block it
up for him, and especially when they've got these like
human sequoia trees up front blocking for him. Like I mentioned,
you can activate actual pass catching tight ends and stay
(40:19):
in your heavier personnels. I'm just I just got all tingly,
you know, watching it, and especially there's like a second
and six where it was all of them lined up
and Scott Mattlocke was in and they had two tight
ends and they had a running back as well as
the full back, and it was just this wall of people.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
It's everywhere. It's your league, your league right now.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Hauntingly beautiful.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
The Eagles had twelve snaps of six offensive line and
they're just using They call it a tight end, but
it was just Patrick. It's like basically just another Yeah,
it's a tight end. The Texans went nuts, cranking up
more six offensive lineman snaps in that game almost in
the rest of the season combined. Patrick Card returned for
the Ravens, who I kind of feel like is an
(41:04):
offensive lineman. So yeah, heavy personnel is happening everywhere.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
It is.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
All right, let's talk Thursday night football. Okay.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
These are two teams, the Baltimore Ravens and the Miami
Dolphins on Thursday Night Football, who are coming off maybe
the most encouraging games each one of them has had
all season long. Who, like a lot of the teams
we just talked about, were kind of haunted by backup
quarterback decisions.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Okay, maybe the Dolphins weren't, but.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
They did elevate Quinn yours one week and he made
it all the way to the Throw of the Year candidacy.
And now for some reason, Zach Wilson is back to
being the backup. But no, I really do think like
the Vikings are haunted by their backup quarterback situation, the
Giants for making the wrong one I think to start
the season, and I think the Ravens for signing Cooper
rush to seven million dollars when your boy Tyler Huntley
(41:54):
was right there all along, gets a big win last week,
and I just think there was a lot of encouraging
factors for Lamar Jackson to return to They did confirm
Lamar spoke to the media he'll be out there, kind
of a hometown game for him.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
And all they need.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
For Lamar Jackson to be successful is an average defense.
In the last two weeks, they've been average. All the
numbers would say they've been right around average and a
good enough running game, and the running numbers have been
average average success rate over the last two weeks, and
when you add Lamar Jackson to that, it becomes exceptional.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
Yeah, I am really eager to see what this will
look like because we noted this on the Recap Show
on Sunday that Todd Monkin called a better game and
this was important for him to do because there had
been reports locally of just just dissatisfaction around the building
of how it was going to that point. He called
(42:51):
a better game, and he also called a game that
you could see Lamar Jackson dropping into and elevating obviously
the quarterback position and doing so, but then also you
could see all the pieces and how they would pertain
to a Lamar Jackson led offense as well, obviously with
a huge improvement a quarterback, because this is Lamar Jackson
we're talking about. So I'm really curious to see what
(43:11):
this looks like. Having Patrick card back is sneaky huge
for them too, and activating some of the ways that
they want to run the ball and some of the
ways that they want to disguise their run.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Pass looks as well.
Speaker 4 (43:22):
And having this defense you know, moving the safeties a
little bit Alohi Gilman coming in and adding to the
group and then being able to move Kyle Hamilton a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Again, we saw this work last year. Yea.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
It's almost like, would you just want to start the
season that way. I know they were limited in personnel,
so maybe couldn't, but it's like you could start to
see maybe this Ravens team is, at least in theory
or an ideation what you're seeing them do schematically on
the field, maybe turn a little bit of a corner.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Well you can kind of like look at the snap counts.
It's as easy as that to me and see who's playing,
and it's like, yeah, Gilman's now playing every snap. And
Roquan Smith, who did not look right early in the
year and then they sat him down, and that did
seem to be one of those injury situations where it
was like, you're not helping us playing through the injury
that you have, let's sit you down. They get through
(44:10):
the by he has his best game of the season
by far. That's a massive deal. Marlon Humphrey is so
integral to what they do on defense. And then I
even noticed last week, like Mike Green has not been
that effective for them as a rookie pass rusher, but
they just need him and he basically was out there
every snap. He did have a couple splash plays. I'm
not saying he's turned the corner, but he's helped. And
(44:31):
it's interesting because I know it's just one week and
it might just turn out to be one week, but
I do think it's a tougher matchup this week against
the Dolphins, who really showed something a week ago with
a lot of diversity in their running game, certainly to
a tongue of Iloa's best game of the season. Jalen
Wattle's gone ninety five yards or more three out of
(44:53):
the last four weeks. And it might turn into just
a blip, but it was a really clean, awesome perform
by the Dolphins, especially in the way that they attacked
the running game last week. And so I do think
it's a tougher matchup than people might realize when they
look at a seven and a half point spread.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
On the road.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
Well, and I think the Dolphins would probably prefer to
not be looked at too closely because coming in as
an underdog is helping them. It has helped them but also,
you know, I think a lot of us expected this
to be an interim coach by now, possibly even you know,
interim management in the front office as well, And it's
not because these guys are getting a shot genuinely to
(45:29):
turn this thing around, or so it seems on the surface, right,
And so I feel like it's it's very interesting to me.
I actually have not spent a lot of time truly
worried about Miami's offense this year, whether it was yeah,
they still they've for years, they've had issues in the
run game. Like I won't I won't say that that's
perfect by any means.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
They need their running game to work better like it
did on Sunday, But in terms.
Speaker 4 (45:50):
Of the way to for for you, I mean a
couple real stinkers of games, but especially last few weeks
playing better some of the the vintage sort of timing
and ball handling and and just different little layers and
elements that they add for triggeration for the handoffs and
the misdirection and all of those things that's there. Jalen
(46:10):
Waddle is playing great. Not having Darren Waller obviously is
a blow, but Jalen Wattle has really been that guy
and been that player who it's almost like he's he's
just like shining a little brighter without a Tyreek Hill
also demanding some of the targets or needing some of
the targets to go his direction because of his pure
speed and ability to separate. So this has had to
(46:31):
be sort of a rebuilt on the fly a couple
of times this year. Offense, If Mike McDaniel can just commit,
just commit to running the ball, Ollie Gordon might you
might really have something in compliment with Allie Gordon.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
I think I think he's a player that should be
part of their future. Yeah, like he's a he's a
short yard, big, big, physical back. Jalen Wright got into
the mix last week, and then Devon h Chan is
great whether lined up as a receiver or.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
As a running back.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
The flip side is where I'm even more curious if
it was a one week thing or not, because they
did make some schematic changes in terms of how they
were like lining up their defensive tackles last week, and
everyone got on the falcons and you did somewhat as well.
I don't think it was about like in terms of
how much they were using Bijon Robinson. It was more
like knowing how to use him exactly, because when you
(47:17):
look at that game last week, they tried to use him.
It just wasn't working. And so is that a one
week thing? Because the Dolphins do have talented players up front.
Jalen Phillips definitely coming off his best game of the year.
I would say Zach Stealer is too, and I think
Jordan Brooks has been great all year. They do have
some players. The weakness is in the secondary, So that's
one where I want to see it more than one week.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
But that one week was enough. It really isn't one week.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
If you look at their last three or four games,
every week has probably been their best game of the season.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
Well, they're all hot seat games for everybody.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
Right, even the Browns game defensively, Like, I know they
were playing the Browns, but they gave up around two
hundred yards in that game.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
The defense was fine.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
So I'm always hopeful that we're going to have a
more interesting game to talk about on the Thursday night recap.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
But I oh, is that booth? Yes?
Speaker 1 (48:03):
I do think they showed some things last week that
at least make me think, Okay, maybe they're a little
closer to the seven to ten, eight to nine Dolphins
that maybe some people expected before the season than they
are to this total problem. The problem is that they're playing,
you know, the best offense in the league when it's healthy,
and it's and it's quite one of them, and it's
quite healthy.
Speaker 4 (48:22):
And also if it goes horribly, horribly, horribly wrong, just
a couple of days before the deadline, the Ravens might
be getting a great look at a pass rusher they
should try to make a move for and see if
that works.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Ooh, that's good, because I think Bradley Chubb is is
probably more likely to be traded, but he hasn't really
been that effective this year.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
Has a big number.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Jalen Phillips is really interesting young player who you can
think about trying to sign long term after you trade
for him. But I think the Dolphin should be trying
to sign him long term because you're always better that
second year.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
Yeah, you might be frozen though, whether you're offloading or extending,
if you don't know if you're gonna have a job
at the end of the year.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
That's a great point. So that's why a team like
the could bring them in. They could think, hey, we'll
tag them if we can't work out a deal at
something like that Thursday night football.
Speaker 3 (49:06):
I think I think the Dolphins maybe keep it close,
closer than seven and a half. Why not.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
That's it for today's show. We will be back on Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (49:16):
Are you ready?
Speaker 2 (49:16):
I'm so ready?
Speaker 3 (49:17):
Honkers Anonymous? What did we call it? Honking?
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Haunted? Honkers. It's just all bad, all bad
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Time of the show, spooky, Gonna stay spooky all week
See Wednesday.
Welcome two NFL Daily. I'm Greg Rosenthal and I'm here
in the Chris Westling podcast studio. Surprised by everything about
this intro and I love it. Yes, it's going to
(00:35):
be a spooky version of NFL Daily aka the Latest
Meeting of Honkers Anonymous, myself.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
And Jordan Rodrige the Haunted Honkers.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Yeah, we're here.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
We're here in the studio and we're going to be
talking about what we're haunted by a little later in
the show. Honking Anonymous would have been the better title.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
We both like the.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Hun sounds like I'm just like a medio.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah, credit, we both you know, if we were basketball players, Jordan,
we'd both have high usage rates.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
You know, Colleen will be back, you know, I know that.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I know the schedule has been a little crazy on
the see you next Tuesdays, but I'm really excited the
next couple of weeks we have big shows planned. Colleen
back in the mix for those. And yes, QB Island
just two weeks from now, and I noticed it's been
pretty stable. If you look at the players on QB Island,
they're all playing great other than Lamar Jackson, who's been hurt,
but he's coming back on Thursday, and he's still Lamar
(01:34):
freaking Jackson. So we'll talk about the Thursday night football
game in just a little bit.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
The city is a buzz, I know, Dodgers, Glee.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
We all stayed up and watched the game electric eighteen innings.
I was telling you before the show, I went to
bed the minute that Shohan Fannie said I would like
to be asleep as soon as possible.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
A good sign. Yeah, if he says it, you should
listen to that. Man.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I was at the last eighteen inning World Series game,
so it's a reminder that doesn't mean just because you
win that one that it's going to carry over.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Let's talk some news. Let's talk some NFL.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
We have a decent amount of news right off the
top of the show. Then we'll get to that segment
and TNF. Let's start with the latest quarterback change. Tyler
Shuck will start difficult first matchup against the Los Angeles
Rams defense.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
It's been playing well lately, good pass rush.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Obviously the timing does make sense, even though it's unfair.
It's like you know, you tell children very often, life
is not fair. I don't think this changes fair to
Spencer Rattler, and yet I totally understand it.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
I think both things can be true.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Multiple things can be true. We love to say that
in here.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
This is a.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Tough draw to get for your first your first NFL start,
if you're Tyler Shuck, because as you mentioned, it's not
just that the Rams front is Front seven's playing very
very well and really aggressive rushing the past or stopping
the run really well.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
You know, they're also.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Coming off of bye week, so not only that, but
they are rested. So this is a tough draw if
you're Tyler Shuck.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
I thought he looked good when I went to rewatch
you know live. I was kind of looking at results
and thinking about the three pretty off target throws that
I think Tyler Shuck is going to have. I don't
think he's as accurate a quarterbacks as Rattler, for instance,
but I think he's going to have more high level throws.
And I thought he was relatively decisive in that game.
(03:33):
They moved the ball a little bit.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
I get it. He's your number forty overall.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Pick the Rattler things thinks, because I think he played
really well for six weeks. But looking big picture for
the Saints, I think they kind of got exactly what
they needed to out of the Rattler evaluation. I think
he earned himself a solid eight to ten years in
the league by the way he played these first six weeks,
and he's going to be a good backup for either
(03:57):
the Saints or another team, or maybe get a chance
to start somewhere else line. I think they learned that
about him, and now you find out about the second round.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
He could even become the new prime meridian for backup
quarterbos eventually in his career trajectory.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I could see it happening. I really could.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
I think he gives you enough to potentially be on
that type of trajectory.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
The weird thing is, I felt like he had sort
of a Kellen Moore governor on him the whole time,
like he wasn't playing as truly freestyling way of football.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
But he did it really well.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
And then I think he got a little too amped
up for that Caleb game and it just it just
went a little south. But he didn't even play that
that bad. It's just time to see the young kid.
Let's talk about who's not going to be on the
field this week, including Patrick Tirtan.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
He is week to week with a pex strain.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
The insiders did that thing where they were like, this
is good news. It's like, no, it's not good news,
Like that would be very painful if you had a
peck strain and he's missing games, and multiple insiders Ian
Rappaport included said he could go to IR, which is
usually a pretty strong indication. He will go to IR
at some point, I'm guessing later this week. So you know,
(05:02):
the Broncos without Sirtana, it'll be an interesting test of
a really good defense, a good secondary, but removing the
defensive player of the year.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, well, I thought that they.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
I thought Van Joseph had a good schematic plan based
on you know, missing him in and out of the
game throughout the first half before he finally left the
game for good after that first half, you know, and
we were worried about this because when I saw that
shot of him walking to the locker room, he wasn't
grabbing his shoulder. He was grabbing like right to the
outside of his armpit, which indicated that it was going
to be a pectoral issue. I think where you're relieved
(05:32):
everything's relative is that it's not torn. If it's torn, obviously,
you're just not coming back. At least there's a chance,
especially potentially activation before the postseason if he does go
on ir that this a strain or a sprain can
heal a little bit.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
But it's the safety. I thought the safety's played fine.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
The problem that they're going to have is that everybody's
going to throw at Riley Moss and try to draw
these penalties.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
And also that Jday Barron.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
We saw really good stuff from him last week, but
that hasn't really been consistent throughout the entire season.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So while I do think they.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Got really good, a really good performance in light of
the sudden changed circumstances of having your best defensive player
on and off the field repetitively through the first half,
they I thought they looked really solid and having a
whole week to plan for this. Yes, there's a drop
off without Patrick Certan, but I do think that vance
Joseph Scott some good scheme to help play around Madison.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
It's funny because Riley Moss might get targeted less now
because he's the best quarterback.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Because people see the flags flying every single time, and
they're like, still still going to try to get this
guy to to p.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I I loved Bomani Jones's take last week that the
past interference against Riley Moss at the end of that
game against the Giants was racist, that they just they
didn't believe that Riley could play such good cover. It
was a terrible call, but he's the best quarterback probably
on the team. They brought in Chris Abrams Drain for
a lot of that game, and then you mentioned today Baron,
(06:55):
which people probably haven't been tracking as much but was
a really highly thought of first round pick added to
a deep secondary. Lost the slot cornerback job pretty early
in the season to Jakwon McMillan. Hasn't really played that much,
so he might get in the mix a lot more too.
And they've got a lot of big games coming up
on the schedule, including the Kansas City Chiefs in two weeks.
Looking forward to that, we got the trade deadline coming up.
(07:16):
We did the most interesting potential trade targets me and
Nick Shook. We had a couple receivers on that list.
Check out Monday Night's show if you want that. That's
after the Chiefs Commander's recap. Brian Thomas Junior was not
on that list because we wanted to go with the
most realistic ones, and this one felt a little far fetched,
although possible interesting. Liam Cohen addressed the report from the
(07:40):
athletics Diana Rassini that Brian Thomas Junior could potentially be available.
Speaker 5 (07:46):
We have no plans on moving Brian Thomas Junior at all.
Saw something about that over the weekend, but I mean
I talked to him for a good amount of time
this morning, and it's just a reset for a lot
of these guys to come in fresh four and three
with everything ahead of us, regardless, good batter and different
(08:09):
what's happened in the first seven games. We all have
an opportunity to write a narrative. We own the narrative,
and so I got a lot of confidence in him.
I really do believe that we can turn the corner
and get better in the pass game that way.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Not a lot surprises me from the insiders.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
But when I saw that note in Diana's column over
the weekend, and she usually has some pretty good nugs
in there, I thought, where is that coming from.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
That's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
That is not what the Jaguars obviously would want out
there at a precarious point in their season.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Well in it that's why he responded that way.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Maybe, I mean sometimes coaches are two face er. Sometimes
there's different parts of the organization that have different agendas.
Either way, it got out there. You're right, it probably
wouldn't be from the Jaguars. They would not want that
to be out there. And he said he addressed it,
you know, with Brian Thomas Junior personally for a while,
but not out there for nothing. So I find that interesting.
(09:07):
It has to come from somewhere. Maybe it's other teams, China, maybe.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
A motivational tactic. I don't know.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
There's a lot of different reasons why there's a lot
of different things at a lot of different times before
the trade deadline.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Brian Thomas Junior is a second year player, though, would
he hate being traded away from UH A guy who
just throws a bunch of hospital balls in a system
that's not quite working for him? Man, if he was available,
that would be fascinating. I find this Jaguars team still
as fascinating.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Well, he's saying he's not available. He's pretty much shutting
the doors.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
He said he had no plans.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
I've heard a lot of coaches say we have no plans,
which is to me the ultimate ninety five percent. He's here,
but I can always say plans k.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Jared Goff is our quarterback right now.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Right now is even more dangerous. Se that's where you
mark it down from like ninety five percent to fifty percent.
Get a first round pick for Brian Thomas Junior. Hell yeah,
you get a first round plus. I'd still I'd still
evaluate him as like a top ten to twelve wide
receiver quote unquote asset in the league, just because of
the contract and because of his age. But it is
(10:09):
fascinating that you have to look at both Trevor Lawrence
and Brian Thomas Jr. And say they were playing better
last year.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Weird.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
There's a lot of good stuff in that. The Roger
McCrary kind of she had that Diana was circulating the
Roger McCreary reporting, and he did get traded.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
The Rams picked him up.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
The Rams needed cornerback help with a Kello Witherspoon on
injured reserve right now, they're hoping it's short term, short
ish term. It's like a twelve week recovery process for
a Kello Witherspoon, and their coverages have been really dictated
by that injury. And Darius Williams is a little banged up.
So trading for Roger McCreary was a thing that they
had to do.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Why why are the Titans just desperate to get off
useful cornerbacks? They traded him for nothing. It was a
fifth to sixth round swap. I didn't mention it very
briefly on Monday night, but I found that mystifying. I
know he's coming to the end of his contract, but
he's he's a good young player. The last good young
player they traded away was Jarvis Brownly, who immediately became
(11:05):
like one of the jets better players in the secondary.
So I just don't get what's the point of trading
if you don't get literally anything back. You mentioned IR
and injuries for the Rams. The Rams put two to
Atwell on IR, and I mentioned that in context with
something you noted how players can be traded off IR,
(11:25):
which not that interested in Atwell, who could be a
rotational piece for someone. But Trevon Diggs was placed on
IR for the Cowboys after what was reported as a
concussion and he's still in the concussion protocol. But after
a week being out with a concussion, then they placed
(11:46):
him on injured reserve, and Jerry Jones indicated that Digs
needed to be in better shape. In a press conference
after last Cowboys.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Game, Jerry Jones just said some what.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah and sorry, Look, they indicated they indicated that, look,
maybe he wasn't physically ready to be back from his
torn acl Michael Parsons, for instance, was asked about it,
and he said he thought the Cowboys really did Travon
Diggs dirty by essentially forcing him to get ready for
(12:23):
Week one when he physically wasn't ready.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
He's been on the field all year.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
And we say all this because Trevon Diggs was a
first team All Pro four years ago and then a
good Player of the year after that. He did back
up that season, and this contract in this injury has
just been fascinating, so weird and not good for the
Cowboys defense. And I do think what is I do
think the Cowboys could potentially take advantage of that rule
that you can trade players on IR with Diggs specifically.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Yeah, and it's interesting that you've seen some difference making
players move that way. A keep to lead was traded,
you know, twenty eighteen after that rule change.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
So yeah, we'll keep an eye on that, you mentioned
the PEX strain being a relief for Patrick Surtan. Unfortunately
no relief for the Bills and Ed Oliver he has
a torn biceps.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
It's a bummer.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
He's just the biggest difference maker they have upfront right now.
Joey Bosa has been okay, they're adding Michael Hoyt and
Ogunjobi into the mix, but that's a tough one because
they're very likely not going to get him back this year.
Maybe there's some scenario if they make the Super Bowl
deep in the playoffs that it becomes a question. But
barring a trade, and I think they are about as
(13:36):
likely as literally any team in the NFL to make
an eye opening trade. And I think defensive line would
maybe be their number one target.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Yeah, it's I mean it should be there down to
and listen, like Michael Hoyt's a good player, Larry Ogunjobi's
a good players, has had some really good years, but
they still they're so thin along that defensive line. It's
like Dean Walker, who's showed flashes, got some stuff to him,
showed flashes, but you can't account for depth and you
need more of it. So that's where I would say, yeah,
(14:05):
I would think the Bills are on the phones right
now trying to figure out what to do next.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, and that trade deadline is a week from today,
so we got a lot going on. Next week we'll
do some mid season content. We'll do some trade deadline recap.
It'll be fun wrapping up the news before we take
a little break.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Just some quick notes.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Carson Schwessinger, who I had as the defensive rookie of
the year so far, has a high ankle sprain. Reportedly
not a particularly bad version of that olthough I don't
think there's any great versions, and they're in a bye
so maybe he doesn't miss too much time.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
He can still go get that award. You mentioned the
McCreery trade.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Shamar Turner, who is a high draft pick for the Bears,
was getting snaps there and their defensive line rotation has
a torn acl He is out for the season.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
My Patriots signed Marcus Jones.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
We've been talking about the breakout season for Marcus Jones,
who's got a three year deal. Good business by them.
Not just great on special teams, but really having a
an awesome season at cornerback, playing better than Carlton Davis
for instance, who's you know, getting seventeen twenty million dollars
a year.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
And then the Bengals. I'm sorry to bring this.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Up, guys, but they had a player's only defensive meeting.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
So that's season's over. Stick a forking them done.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
As it turns out, you can only somewhat revive your
season when you have players only meetings but people are
either late or don't show up to them.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Well here's the thing though, the Dolphins, glad you mentioned
that they had a lot of those players only meetings,
and then they got blasted by the Browns, and from
everything I heard, no players only meetings the week after,
and then now they're back in our lives.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
All right, let's take a quick break, and when we
come back, we're going to do a segment what we're
haunted by NFL daily.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
We're festive love Halloween week. Love that it's kind of
turning into a week. Maybe that's because it was on
(16:11):
Friday this year, but there were a lot of Halloween
parties last weekend. I was in New Orleans the Halloween
Parade last weekend. Everyone was out in the quarter in
their costumes already.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
So this has been a long.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Billbo I'm being neighborhood dad and having everyone come over
before we all go out trick or treating.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
So I gotta get some.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Are you gonna wear a costume?
Speaker 3 (16:38):
I'm not gonna wear a costume.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
I was gonna say, let's not kick, let's have crazy.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
I have and I would.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
And if someone just like made it very easy for
me came up with a good idea like that I
could execute it, maybe I would do it.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
I feel like your I feel like you could come
up with some really good ideas that they would be
so niche like.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
No, I'm not into like being creative. I'm more into, like,
wear something inflatable. Inflatable like the wavy arms guy from
the car dealership.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
That was a big one.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I need this now, I need to see this.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
I got some good pictures. It's on the ig.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
The segment what we're haunted by, maybe what people in
the NFL are haunted by. It's a little open ended.
I will let you start.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Well, Ben Johnson and the Chicago Bears are absolutely haunted.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
By all the penalty Oh okay, yes.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
The penalties.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Greg sixty four penalties or five hundred and thirty three
total yards.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Twenty six of.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Those are pre snap penalties. They have a twenty eight
penalty differential on their opponents this season, and that's those
numbers are per Scott Bear and Josh Dubou and it's staggering.
Ben Johnson seems to be closer and closer to his
complete breaking point when it comes to like expressing his
(17:56):
true internal nerd rage over these penalties and how catastrophic
they've been. It's been start stop, start stop, start stop
through all of these games, and there's starting to be
like the passive aggressive comment, the fact, I mean, I'm
making a big deal over it. It's he started to crack,
I think a little bit.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Let's listen to him.
Speaker 6 (18:17):
We've been harping on it as a coaching staff, and
when it results in a loss, I think it just
magnifies the issue that was at hand.
Speaker 5 (18:25):
How was that message received by your your team leaders,
your captains, and then what actions would you like to
see them take this week to change those penalties?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (18:35):
I would like us to stay on side. So you know,
it's it's simple. Yeah, it's it's discipline. You know, I
think there is fed up with it is everyone is
in the building, and so uh they understand it's just
not what good football teams do. And I think they're
going to take ownership of it. I think we're going
to be just fine.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Mhm. It seems okay.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
I know I'm making it. I'm making a thing over
it because he's high hunted by it.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah, really, Greg, No, he is. Though it's been consistent.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
It's been since camp, it's been since OTA's it's stuff
that he was losing his GD mind over on the
practice field that still is not fixed, and he's mentioned
he's had some pretty loaded comments previous to these most
recent ones just about how like they are coaching it
the way he wants it to be coached. And there's
a little, I think continuation that maybe they're being inordinately
(19:24):
penalized by the officiating and all these things. You can't
say it out loud, obviously you get a fine, but
there's it's just it's it's a mess.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
All of the pre snap stuff, though, is like you
can only blame yourself ultimately. And it's a really interesting
point to make because I think it's so integral in
what they do, is all the pre snap motion and everything.
I thought it was really interesting. After the bye week,
he basically said, Okay, we were conservative and didn't essentially
(19:54):
run the offense I wanted to run the first month,
but now we're going to run it. We're going to
do all my stuff, and for the most most part
it led to better rushing performance and things looking better
when they did get the snap off. But ultimately, yeah,
they need that to be the bearst team they want
to be. Here's the good news. They played the Bengals,
potentially the worst defense in the league, and then they
(20:16):
play the Giants, which shockingly has the worst run defense
since at least my subscription for FDN Fantasy allows, which
is only to twenty seventeen, even worse than the Panthers
a week a year ago. So they have two of
the easiest possible matchups.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
The next That adds to him being haunted by this
because these are if the only reason that they can't
get this offense I think off the ground. Finally, for
good are the self inflicted penalties. I mean, I'm just
saying the nerd rage.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Yes, I love a little nerd rage.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Okay, I'm going to go more my own rage, but
it's about Mike Tomlin, and it's about this.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Pittsburgh Steeler defense and I think.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Sometimes it's the ghost of that steel Kurt. It's the
history of what the Pittsburgh Steelers are supposed to be.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Back in the nineteen seventies.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
But more than anything, it's the ghost of what Mike
Tomlin said just a couple of months ago in August,
Mike Tomlin said that this could be a historic defense.
I got some I got some clown calling me little
(21:37):
bro on Twitter, being like Tomlin never said that. Here's
the quote, little bro, I'm your big bro, you're my son. No,
here's Tomlin. We got to write that story. But we've
got enough talent, we've got enough schematics to do big,
big things. And when I say big things, I'm talking
(21:58):
about his story things. That's Mike Tomlin on August twelfth.
Fast forward two and a half months, and their offense
is performing better than I expected, better than anyone could
have expected. Twelfth in DVA they are more than doing
their part.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
What are they in defense? Number twenty two in.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Defensive DVOA, dead last in yards per drive allowed.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Bro get off the field.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Meanwhile, you got the Rooney family spending one hundred and
sixty five million dollars on this defense.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
That is more than.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Twenty five million dollars, more than any other defense in
the entire league.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
What's historic is how poorly they're playing.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
And I know this is especially tough for you to say,
because the offense is playing adequately, Greg and I and.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I know you want to hate. I know you want
to be a hater. I am a hater, and that's fine.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
But this, this is not just haunting but downright frightening
because you can invest this much, not just money but
personnel and draft picks and all of these.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Different Derrick Carmen first round pick this year, Keanu Benton struggling,
second round pick, and.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
It's just not looking like they look slow, they look older,
and they don't look like they're evolving.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Some of that.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
At the beginning of the year, you could blame on injuries.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
You know, Joey Porter was in and out, Junior was
in and out of the lineup, and at a certain
point Jalen Ramsey was dealing with a hamstring and all
of these different than Alex Heismith was out. You could
do that to a point, but now you're getting to
the point where there is nowhere else to look. And
Mike Tomlin is being asked about it.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Oh, he's looking elsewhere. Let's let's actually listen to Mike Tomlin.
This was This was part of his press conference on Tuesday.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
We certainly need to be better in third down, and
we've been, but it doesn't necessarily mean dramatic changes in
terms of stematics and things of that nature.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Why not.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
That was what got me in that quote from before,
was because of our schematics, because of our players, we
can do historic things. I think their players are really
good in the front. Yeah, I don't think it's perfect
in the secondary, but I think it's more about the
schematics that are the problem.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
And it bothered me.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
It's why I'm doing this segment that he opened his
press conference today talking about how frustrating it was that
they couldn't put together a complete game plan and that
the offense couldn't finish drives, that they were in third
and too long too often, and they settled for too
many field goals. And I'm thinking you're opening that press
conference with that when your defense, the one you said
(24:45):
was going to be historic, just gave up ninety something
points in nine hundred yards or sixty something points over
the last two weeks, and nine hundred something yards like,
look in the mirror, you should change the skmatics.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
They've been the same since since he got there.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Yeah, And what I think is probably frustrating to Steelers
fans right now and to you as well, Greg, is
that some of the changes that they did make in
terms of the personnel. And I do point to that
Jalen Ramsey trade or excuse me, yeah, the Jalen Ramsey
trade as one of them. Is you get some of
(25:20):
these players who are supposed to be and no, he's
not playing like vintage Jalen Ramsey, like let's just be
clear about that. But he has made splash plays. He
will have games, especially when he is I think set
up for what he's more able to do now at
thirty one years old, play in the slot and kind
of be that like tilt coverages and leverage different mathematical matchups.
(25:43):
And at the beginning when they when this trade happened,
it was all the sort of the running line, and
myself included was this is this is among the multiple
different gestures or signals that you're getting from this Mike
Tomlin led Steelers defense that they are going to take
another step in a different schematic direction. They are going
(26:06):
to evolve a little bit, and the production has not
matched it.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
No, And I think when he's pointing out, you know
them struggling to get off the field, it's because good coaches,
I think, know what is coming. It is a lot
of the same in man coverage, blitz type of concepts,
And if you wanted to really simplify it, I think
it's more of an execution defense. It's more about our
players are better than your players. We're not trying to
(26:35):
fool you. And it reminds me of the old uh
John McCay quote, the old Buccaneers coach when he was
asked what he thought of his offense as execution, and
he said, I'm in favorite. This is this off this defense,
it is very har executing ll not executing chop its
head off. I mean, I love Mike Tomin He's such
(26:56):
a good coach. But I think Dave Danischik has done
a good job pointing out like there's nowhere left to
point like.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
It's always blaming.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
It's always the offensive coordinator, it's always the offensive line.
And I think right now Tomlin is a big part
of the problem. All right, give me what you're haunted by.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
I think that somebody is being haunted by some previously
very strong comments.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
That we're correct made last fall.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
That is Kevin O'Connell on the Rich Eisen Show, and
he said these incredibly truthful words, I believe organizations fail
young quarterbacks before young quarterbacks fail organizations. Very true, right,
And I think credit to Kevin O'Connell for not only
speaking up something, saying something very plainly and very honestly
(27:43):
that's been an issue across the league all thirty two
for years, for decades at this point. His comments were
not and are not wrong, but they loom extra large
right now as the Vikings walk ap pretty impossible haunting
in height rope with their quarterback situation, and in light
of the Carson Wentz season ending labraam and arm socket
(28:04):
injuries and JJ McCarthy seemingly returning from a high ankle
sprain which was the reason why Carson Wentz aka the
human Shield was playing through those injuries.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
To give JJ McCarthy enough.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
Time, according to Kevin O'Connell in the organization to return
in a safe and healthy way. For me, multiple things
are true here based on all the reporting and all
on the record and radio comments and probably continued questions
and comments all throughout this week, from Kevin O'Connell, from
Carson Wentz, from everybody involved in the situation. It seems
like he was really pushing to play through this injury,
(28:43):
these multiple injuries, and that can be true, while also
teams don't protect players from themselves historically, and it's also
true that in this case, the Vikings could not really
protect the player who they have spent less resources and
invested time in, from himself, the lesser of two evils.
(29:04):
In their minds seemed to be Okay, let him play
and protect our future investment. But that's also failing a quarterback.
That's failing Carson Wentz.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Well maybe it's in the words there. He's okay failing
older quarterbacks. He just doesn't want to fail the young one.
I think you're right, and I think if you go
back to, like what could be haunting this team, it's
their off season plan. Yeah, because Carson Wentz wasn't there.
You know, they wanted to have Sam Howell. I was
forgetting that. I was like, who was their backup quarterback
(29:31):
two months ago? Was Sam Howell? You know who they
traded for that? That was a bust I think leaving
Wentz out there was brutal when you could have played
Max Brosmer last week, just at least at some point
in that particular game that happened. And so I don't
know what happened behind the scenes, but at some point
the decision was made. Carson Wentz is going to be
(29:54):
put down for the year. That might have been Carson
Wentz is like, okay, you used me. I'm good here.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
See yeah, because you can't physically play Greg.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
We literally just saw him do it, so he could
in theory, I said at the.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
Top of these comments, like everything that everyone including Carson
Wentz is saying out of Minnesota right now is he
was pushing to play through these righties. Right, So that
can be true, while also this can be a total
mess and an organizational failure. At the same time, both
of those things can be true because a player will
always want to play in an organization will nine times
out of ten not protect the player from himself.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Right, It's very rare. Both of those things are true.
Fact to the league. You don't have to like it,
fact to the league.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
But the thing is, is this franchise, because you're now
trotting out, you have two quarterbacks on the roster, JJ
McCarthy and Max Browsner.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
They're probably gonna add another guy, but it's hard.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
Because there's not a lot of people with scheme or
system familiarity. And then you're putting more resources into a
quarterback room that you already reshuffled right.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Before the start of training camp.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
You're throwing whoever's out there behind a bad offensive line
that's not playing to the level of the investment, and
some of that's injury related as well, but an offensive
line not to the level of expectation or investment, and
also a run game not to the level of expectation
or investment.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
And when you have all of that, Carson Wentz happens to.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
Be the first casualty, the first real noticeable casualty of
all of this. But you have to get this right
because you have gained the reputation through your very true
and correct actions, if with previous quarterbacks as well as
you know your reputation and your very correct words. You've
gained this reputation as a guy who gets quarterbacks and
(31:34):
is the quarterback whisper, and like to reiterate, he earned
that reputation, but it's dangling kind of precariously right now
as those words, as honest as they were, kind of
come back to haunt him and the organization because you
could argue that whether or not they got it right
with JJ McCarthy watching what happened to Carson Wentz, the
rest of the system is not succeeding around the quarterback.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
And yeah, there's nowhere to hide. I think they were
trying to set up JJ in the best chance for
success by making sure he's one hundred percent back. Look,
do I think if he had played lights out the
first two weeks of the season he would have satis long?
Speaker 3 (32:14):
I don't. I just don't.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
Yeah, well, people a lot of people are forgetting that
that he did not look good but for that one quarter, right,
and so I.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Think that was a big part of why he had
to wait to start longer. But at some point, you
know they had to play him. They they would have
been playing him. It sounds I think this week, whether
Carson Wentz was hurt or not, and it's gonna be tough.
You got the Lions and the Ravens right out the
gate for JJ McCarthy. I am curious who else they
will bring on there. But it's also an opportunity. That's
(32:42):
a great thing about the NFL. You're like one week away,
Like if they could just somehow beat the Lions, then
it's like.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
All none of this mattered.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
All that really matters is JJ McCarthy's development for the
rest of this season.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
Really, that quarter against the Bears was enough of a
wild card that I wouldn't rule I wouldn't rule it out.
He's got some gamer in him if he's feeling healthy, Like,
I just wouldn't rule it out. At the same time,
the Lions are a wagon on both sides of the ball.
And also like again this roster, this, I mean, the
defense is not playing up to the level of expectation,
the offensive line is not playing up to the level
(33:14):
of expectation. All of these things preseason that they tried
to construct in order to basically plug in and give
this quarterback like a crescendo through the course of the season.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
It's just not happening.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Bikings fans probably don't want to hear, but I'm I'm
with them, kind of where I was with Drake May
in the offseason, and like, all that matters is JJ McCarthy.
They're probably not making the playoffs this year. But if
JJ McCarthy has a positive next nine games, that's that's
kind of all that matters for the Vikings. And so
that that will start on Sunday and we'll preview that
(33:45):
game on Wednesday. Can't wait, Colts man. I have a
lot of regrets about how I evaluated the Colts.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
I'm haunted by many things when it comes to picks.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
But the over underwin totals draft, that's my baby. Hadn't
had a loss in four years of doing it. And
my number two pick this year, partly because Nick Wright took.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
The over on the Chiefs, which is looking good.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
My number two pick this year was under on the
Colt seven and a half. Not only that, a couple
of weeks ago, I flipped my pick on Game Deviut
from the Colts to the Charger. I mean, in that game,
just absolutely stupid, And there were so many reasons to
see what was coming with this Colts team. First of all,
(34:39):
that was like the most obvious everyone's piling on type
of pick. I don't want to consider myself a contrarian,
but I do find myself kind of making picks like that.
So for me to just go like a Lemming and
fall right off the cliff do exactly what Vegas wanted
me to do and take the Colts so early, like
they were going to be some sort of disaster off
based off vibes whatever was. But I should have seen
(35:01):
what was there, which is weirdly a win now team
full of incredible continuity and really good on the offensive line.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
Now, did we know Tanner.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Bordolini and you know Matt Matt Gonzales I believe he
pronounced his name. We're gonna be as good on the interior?
Probably not, but they played pretty well at the end
of last season, so there were signs there. But in
terms of the weaponry, they've all been in Shane Steiken's
system now for years. In terms of terms of their defense,
like it is a veteran group z Ire Franklin and
(35:34):
Grover Stewart and DeForest Buckner and Kenny Moore, and they
bring in Charvi Tarvarius Ward. This is not a young team,
Jonathan Taylor, Like, if this didn't work this year, obviously
they were gonna blow up, blow it up in terms
of the GM and the coach. But also I think
I sort of forgot the players that have been there
have been there for a while, and and they're good players,
and Psychen has proven he can win games without great
(35:57):
quarterback play, and so there was a lot leading up
to this season. I think that that made us just
off target. That I should have been able to see.
I should have been a seer and more than anything,
once it started happening, I really should have just trusted it.
Because I do trust it. I don't think they're going anywhere.
I don't think that means they go fifteen and two.
But I think they're the second most likely team in
(36:20):
the AFC to make the Super Bowl. And I think
the offense is going to be a wagon as you say,
all season long.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
They are, and Jonathan Taylor having this season that he's having,
I know we're too early.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
It's not even technically mid season.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
We can hand out some awards next week, so we could.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Say VP type of season.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
You could say like that he would be your Offensive
Player of the Year.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
So far, he's playing incredibly well. They're explosive, they are
getting you know, their success rate on conversions is like
some over fifty percent and then some it's incredible.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
They are. They're fantastic, and I think a lot of
what was.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
Maybe the bias that a lot of us, myself included,
came into the season with was this sense that Chris
Ballard was just going to do the stubborn thing again
and that kind of carry Shane Stikeen along in the
undertow with him in terms of sticking with Anthony Richardson
and trying to make that work because of the investment
and because of the evaluation that they had on him,
(37:20):
because the investment they had made into him.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
And that's not what happened.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
Instead, they pivoted from a decision that you know, I
think say they pivoted into the right one. Whether or
not we still know what Anthony Richardson can eventually be,
we don't, I don't think, but you can say they
pivoted into the correct decision, and they did it kind
of without that fear of embarrassment, I guess, of the
(37:45):
first decision that they had made to invest in him
in the first place. And I think that it's like
we should have just read the tea leaves with Daniel
Jones choosing to go there despite the fact that Minnesota
he had just been in Minnesota with Kevin o'can donald,
And does.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
He get credit, does ocnnall get credit for helping to
restart Daniel Jones's career or blame that they could have
just paid him sixteen million dollars.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Also could have paid Sam Donald just saying.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Right, but they could have paid Daniel Jones a backup
type of contract.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
He's sort of in between.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
But they could have paid him twenty five million dollars
less than Sam Donald and kept Daniel Jones.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
I'm gonna say I give him more blame than credit.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
Well, I'm going to say I give I give Daniel
Jones credit for going where he could see a roster
and believe it would be successful, and so like we
should have all followed Daniel Jones honestly.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
But I will say.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
I'm still stuck on you saying you're not a contrarian
like I got stuck on that at the beginning of
your comment.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
No, I said, I would.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Not want to still stuck.
Speaker 5 (38:45):
Now.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
What I was saying was I, which is kind of
a funny thing for a contrarian to I would not
want to think of myself that way.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
But I'm I'm open, I mean.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
On the internet that I'm the contrarian exactly.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
I'm basically saying that I recognize that in myself.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
All right, one more thing that's taunting you.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Well, you know I'm an optimist, so I picked something
that is hauntingly.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
Beautiful, like a treasured spirit that's come into your life
or a treasured soul from your past. This is the
Chargers offense, specifically out of their heavier personnel groupings with
Joe alt back and activating Scott Mattlock at fullback, and
activating all of these different tight ends including Omari and
Gadson in the passing game, so you could stay in
(39:28):
the heavier personnel. Kimani Vidal twenty three of his carries,
or on his twenty three carries last week, twenty of
them were out of a heavier personnel. So that's either
with a fullback added, or multiple tight ends added, or
six offensive linemen and a fullback added in Scott Mattlock
(39:49):
Jared Patterson not on his eleven carries, ten of them
were in heavier personnel.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
This is all according to next Gen stats.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
The Chargers had two hundred seven total rushing yards, including
sixty two by Justin Herbert, who clearly feels more confident
using his legs and especially when they can block it
up for him, and especially when they've got these like
human sequoia trees up front blocking for him. Like I mentioned,
you can activate actual pass catching tight ends and stay
(40:19):
in your heavier personnels. I'm just I just got all tingly,
you know, watching it, and especially there's like a second
and six where it was all of them lined up
and Scott Mattlocke was in and they had two tight
ends and they had a running back as well as
the full back, and it was just this wall of people.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
It's everywhere. It's your league, your league right now.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Hauntingly beautiful.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
The Eagles had twelve snaps of six offensive line and
they're just using They call it a tight end, but
it was just Patrick. It's like basically just another Yeah,
it's a tight end. The Texans went nuts, cranking up
more six offensive lineman snaps in that game almost in
the rest of the season combined. Patrick Card returned for
the Ravens, who I kind of feel like is an
(41:04):
offensive lineman. So yeah, heavy personnel is happening everywhere.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
It is.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
All right, let's talk Thursday night football. Okay.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
These are two teams, the Baltimore Ravens and the Miami
Dolphins on Thursday Night Football, who are coming off maybe
the most encouraging games each one of them has had
all season long. Who, like a lot of the teams
we just talked about, were kind of haunted by backup
quarterback decisions.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Okay, maybe the Dolphins weren't, but.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
They did elevate Quinn yours one week and he made
it all the way to the Throw of the Year candidacy.
And now for some reason, Zach Wilson is back to
being the backup. But no, I really do think like
the Vikings are haunted by their backup quarterback situation, the
Giants for making the wrong one I think to start
the season, and I think the Ravens for signing Cooper
rush to seven million dollars when your boy Tyler Huntley
(41:54):
was right there all along, gets a big win last week,
and I just think there was a lot of encouraging
factors for Lamar Jackson to return to They did confirm
Lamar spoke to the media he'll be out there, kind
of a hometown game for him.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
And all they need.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
For Lamar Jackson to be successful is an average defense.
In the last two weeks, they've been average. All the
numbers would say they've been right around average and a
good enough running game, and the running numbers have been
average average success rate over the last two weeks, and
when you add Lamar Jackson to that, it becomes exceptional.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
Yeah, I am really eager to see what this will
look like because we noted this on the Recap Show
on Sunday that Todd Monkin called a better game and
this was important for him to do because there had
been reports locally of just just dissatisfaction around the building
of how it was going to that point. He called
(42:51):
a better game, and he also called a game that
you could see Lamar Jackson dropping into and elevating obviously
the quarterback position and doing so, but then also you
could see all the pieces and how they would pertain
to a Lamar Jackson led offense as well, obviously with
a huge improvement a quarterback, because this is Lamar Jackson
we're talking about. So I'm really curious to see what
(43:11):
this looks like. Having Patrick card back is sneaky huge
for them too, and activating some of the ways that
they want to run the ball and some of the
ways that they want to disguise their run.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Pass looks as well.
Speaker 4 (43:22):
And having this defense you know, moving the safeties a
little bit Alohi Gilman coming in and adding to the
group and then being able to move Kyle Hamilton a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Again, we saw this work last year. Yea.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
It's almost like, would you just want to start the
season that way. I know they were limited in personnel,
so maybe couldn't, but it's like you could start to
see maybe this Ravens team is, at least in theory
or an ideation what you're seeing them do schematically on
the field, maybe turn a little bit of a corner.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Well you can kind of like look at the snap counts.
It's as easy as that to me and see who's playing,
and it's like, yeah, Gilman's now playing every snap. And
Roquan Smith, who did not look right early in the
year and then they sat him down, and that did
seem to be one of those injury situations where it
was like, you're not helping us playing through the injury
that you have, let's sit you down. They get through
(44:10):
the by he has his best game of the season
by far. That's a massive deal. Marlon Humphrey is so
integral to what they do on defense. And then I
even noticed last week, like Mike Green has not been
that effective for them as a rookie pass rusher, but
they just need him and he basically was out there
every snap. He did have a couple splash plays. I'm
not saying he's turned the corner, but he's helped. And
(44:31):
it's interesting because I know it's just one week and
it might just turn out to be one week, but
I do think it's a tougher matchup this week against
the Dolphins, who really showed something a week ago with
a lot of diversity in their running game, certainly to
a tongue of Iloa's best game of the season. Jalen
Wattle's gone ninety five yards or more three out of
(44:53):
the last four weeks. And it might turn into just
a blip, but it was a really clean, awesome perform
by the Dolphins, especially in the way that they attacked
the running game last week. And so I do think
it's a tougher matchup than people might realize when they
look at a seven and a half point spread.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
On the road.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
Well, and I think the Dolphins would probably prefer to
not be looked at too closely because coming in as
an underdog is helping them. It has helped them but also,
you know, I think a lot of us expected this
to be an interim coach by now, possibly even you know,
interim management in the front office as well, And it's
not because these guys are getting a shot genuinely to
(45:29):
turn this thing around, or so it seems on the surface, right,
And so I feel like it's it's very interesting to me.
I actually have not spent a lot of time truly
worried about Miami's offense this year, whether it was yeah,
they still they've for years, they've had issues in the
run game. Like I won't I won't say that that's
perfect by any means.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
They need their running game to work better like it
did on Sunday, But in terms.
Speaker 4 (45:50):
Of the way to for for you, I mean a
couple real stinkers of games, but especially last few weeks
playing better some of the the vintage sort of timing
and ball handling and and just different little layers and
elements that they add for triggeration for the handoffs and
the misdirection and all of those things that's there. Jalen
(46:10):
Waddle is playing great. Not having Darren Waller obviously is
a blow, but Jalen Wattle has really been that guy
and been that player who it's almost like he's he's
just like shining a little brighter without a Tyreek Hill
also demanding some of the targets or needing some of
the targets to go his direction because of his pure
speed and ability to separate. So this has had to
(46:31):
be sort of a rebuilt on the fly a couple
of times this year. Offense, If Mike McDaniel can just commit,
just commit to running the ball, Ollie Gordon might you
might really have something in compliment with Allie Gordon.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
I think I think he's a player that should be
part of their future. Yeah, like he's a he's a
short yard, big, big, physical back. Jalen Wright got into
the mix last week, and then Devon h Chan is
great whether lined up as a receiver or.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
As a running back.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
The flip side is where I'm even more curious if
it was a one week thing or not, because they
did make some schematic changes in terms of how they
were like lining up their defensive tackles last week, and
everyone got on the falcons and you did somewhat as well.
I don't think it was about like in terms of
how much they were using Bijon Robinson. It was more
like knowing how to use him exactly, because when you
(47:17):
look at that game last week, they tried to use him.
It just wasn't working. And so is that a one
week thing? Because the Dolphins do have talented players up front.
Jalen Phillips definitely coming off his best game of the year.
I would say Zach Stealer is too, and I think
Jordan Brooks has been great all year. They do have
some players. The weakness is in the secondary, So that's
one where I want to see it more than one week.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
But that one week was enough. It really isn't one week.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
If you look at their last three or four games,
every week has probably been their best game of the season.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
Well, they're all hot seat games for everybody.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
Right, even the Browns game defensively, Like, I know they
were playing the Browns, but they gave up around two
hundred yards in that game.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
The defense was fine.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
So I'm always hopeful that we're going to have a
more interesting game to talk about on the Thursday night recap.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
But I oh, is that booth? Yes?
Speaker 1 (48:03):
I do think they showed some things last week that
at least make me think, Okay, maybe they're a little
closer to the seven to ten, eight to nine Dolphins
that maybe some people expected before the season than they
are to this total problem. The problem is that they're playing,
you know, the best offense in the league when it's healthy,
and it's and it's quite one of them, and it's
quite healthy.
Speaker 4 (48:22):
And also if it goes horribly, horribly, horribly wrong, just
a couple of days before the deadline, the Ravens might
be getting a great look at a pass rusher they
should try to make a move for and see if
that works.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Ooh, that's good, because I think Bradley Chubb is is
probably more likely to be traded, but he hasn't really
been that effective this year.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
Has a big number.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Jalen Phillips is really interesting young player who you can
think about trying to sign long term after you trade
for him. But I think the Dolphin should be trying
to sign him long term because you're always better that
second year.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
Yeah, you might be frozen though, whether you're offloading or extending,
if you don't know if you're gonna have a job
at the end of the year.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
That's a great point. So that's why a team like
the could bring them in. They could think, hey, we'll
tag them if we can't work out a deal at
something like that Thursday night football.
Speaker 3 (49:06):
I think I think the Dolphins maybe keep it close,
closer than seven and a half. Why not.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
That's it for today's show. We will be back on Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (49:16):
Are you ready?
Speaker 2 (49:16):
I'm so ready?
Speaker 3 (49:17):
Honkers Anonymous? What did we call it? Honking?
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Haunted? Honkers. It's just all bad, all bad
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Time of the show, spooky, Gonna stay spooky all week
See Wednesday.
Host
Gregg Rosenthal
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