January 6, 2026 • 23 mins
Gregg Rosenthal and Jourdan Rodrigue react the Ravens firing HC John Harbaugh. Gregg and Jourdan discuss the effect the move will have on this year's coaching carousel (02:30), the Ravens making the move at this time (08:50), possible options to replace Harbaugh (13:00) and more!
Note: time codes approximate.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're always ready for an
unexpected podcast. I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the Chris Wesley
podcast studio with Jordan rod Rieg, the same woman who
just twenty minutes ago left the studio to get ready
and move on with the rest of her day. And
then we called her back because I first learned from
(00:27):
your text that John Harbaugh has been fired as head
coach of the Baltimore Ravens. That comes from our insiders
at NFL Network and many other places, and so we're
going to do a show, a quick one about this.
You will also have our great See You Next Tuesday
show popping up in your feed on Wednesday, where we
(00:49):
go through some awards and some holiday cards, and that's
fun too. But man, John Harbaugh, there just aren't many
coaches in this history recent history of the NFL that
it's stayed in the job that long. He's the second
longest head coach in terms of tenure in the league.
But he's been the head coach of the Ravens for
(01:09):
eighteen of their thirty seasons. They've only had three coaches.
Marcha Broda had a couple of years and it was
Brian Billick, who won a Super Bowl. John Harbaugh won
a super Bowl. But it's been a while and they
decided this was the time to do it. I'll let
you start anywhere that you want.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Jordan, Well, we had thought that this was a really
genuine possibility.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
We've been banging this drama on NFL daily for a while.
That the timing made sense.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
The timing of it made sense.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
You have made the great point multiple times, Greg that
because the Ravens are a well run organization and that
they're a good team, that to look at the stall
outs that seem to happen to this team over the
last couple of years and the lack of playoff runs
and all of those things, that change was necessary. And
(01:58):
I think it's also true, and I know that our
friend Daniel Jeremiah believes this as well, that wherever John
Harbaugh goes next is going to have an incredible ripple
effect across the entire NFL. Even teams that currently have
head coaches employed may think long and hard about this.
(02:18):
And also that whoever the Ravens go with next, the
process is sure to be thorough and they want somebody
there for the long term.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
All great points. Let's start about the impact around the league,
because I do think that Harbaugh was the missing piece
for this news cycle, and there were six openings before
and people thought it was going to be less of
a year. Mike McDaniel in Miami feels like the obvious
guy who could be in trouble because they might be
(02:50):
a team that would want to go after John Harbaugh.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
There are two where there's smoke. There's fire flares.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
For me, you know when the hair on the back
of your neck starts tingling a little bit. And these
are the two for me. One that the team has
not definitiatively come out and said or stated that Mike
McDaniel is staying right, and we also have learned since
that he's not going to be taking a huge role
in the GM interviews to this point. The second was,
(03:21):
you know I reported this, ESPN initially reported this, and
I confirm this this afternoon via source that Chad Alexander,
the assistant general manager of the Jim Harbaugh led Los
Angeles Chargers with under former Ravens assistant Joe Hortizy, he
(03:42):
will be interviewing for the Miami Dolphins general manager position.
So if we're going to do the Windy pointing.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Yes, a little.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
What's going on in Miami?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
To me, the red flags point toward, first of all,
the Dolphins, I think rightfully going through all of their
options here, which is if Mike McDaniel stays in place
as the head coach. I think it's fair to say
that's a big if at this point. With Harbaugh loose,
then they are looking at three candidates who he has
(04:13):
worked with previously in San Francisco. Among those three, I
believe Josh Williams to be the favorite. Now they're also
looking at other candidates including are our guy Alec Hallaby,
who we have a great deal respect for on this show,
assistants Caama, the Philadelphia Eagles, and John Eric Sullivan, who
is an executive in Green Bay. At this point, so
(04:36):
to me, this Miami Dolphins team is doing a lot
of what ifs and research with the opening of these interviews.
Chad Alexander was not included in the initial announcement of
candidates that the Dolphins were going to bring in to
be interviewed by the team. This leaks out today this morning,
(04:57):
just an hour before it leaks that John Harbaugh has
been fired by the Baltimore Ravens. Chad Alexander spent twenty
years with the Baltimore Ravens.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Well, it's just funny how many connections there are and
how Michigan is at the center of all of it,
because I think the timing of it, that it didn't
take that long to happen, that it was not announced
as a mutual partying of ways, at least by Tom Pelsero,
Mike Garrifolo, just to name our guys. NFL network was
(05:27):
announced as a firing. The Ravens didn't want to wait
around either, and you just kind of again start connecting
to that Jesse Minter is going to almost certainly be
a candidate in Baltimore because of his history there, Yes,
potentially in Las Vegas, who knows, maybe in Miami Stephen Ross,
(05:48):
who has really strong ties to Michigan, and obviously John
Harbaugh and Jim Harbaugh and you're talking about Chadlott Alexander.
Timing matters here, and the Ravens might not have wanted
to wait a long around too long because some of
the people that they want to talk to mentor specifically,
you know, they don't want him to take a job elsewhere.
(06:08):
And similarly, like the Dolphins are getting there ducks in
a row for many different possibilities. Yes, the interesting part
about all this is there's no guarantee that they can
close that deal and get John Harbaugh because he could
have interest from other organizations. Giants reporters have more or
less reported and hinted around in the last day or
(06:30):
two that if Harbaugh were to become available, that he
would be a person that they would want to talk to.
Who knows if another Michigan connection, Tom Brady would want
to talk to John Harbaugh in Las Vegas. So Miami's
in a really interesting situation where like there may be
they're like, well, if we're ranking the options, McDaniels, maybe
(06:51):
two or I don't know if there's someone else, like
a three behind Harbab, But we got to see if
we can get Harbaugh first. And it's it's all going
to be fascinating over the next cuple weeks. And Frankly,
even though you know, I'm not happy for a guy
to lose his job, but I'm kind of happy because
I wanted to see another coach with Lamar Jackson number one.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
That's why I think it made sense.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I just think you had to find another coach from
its way, and then number two, it's going to be
good content like a lot of back room trading.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
There's like a lot of doation hiring Macnation.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Right because this is this is a situation where John
Harbaugh one hundred percent, even in ways that Jim Harbaugh
did not possess when he was looking into rejoining the NFL,
John Harbaugh has the cat bird seat here. John Harbaugh
will have multiple franchises where they currently have a game.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
For God, Gavin wouldn't hire.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
People were a little off put by by by all
of that.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
And but now John Harbaugh will not only have the
open jobs, a couple of the open jobs coming after him,
but also potentially jobs that aren't quite yet open and
coach and teams who have been considering possibly making a
change at head coach. For while, I think this is fascinating,
it puts Kevin Stefanski, previously considered maybe the top candidate
(08:06):
on the job market this cycle, it puts him down
a rung in terms of the potential. You might see
teams like the Arizona Cardinals step up, by the way,
who currently have in their employee a coordinator who once
worked under Kevin Stefanski Andrew Petsing and runs an offense
that it's very clear the GM likes and wants and
(08:26):
wants to run, and perhaps a change at head coach
and play caller is something that comes into play there
for the Arizona Cardinals. This entire where I don't know
that the Cardinals would have had a shot at Stefanski previously.
This all come this changes so much about this cycle
so early on in the cycle.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
It's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
I think you're right that the ultimate ending of all this,
and the biggest news to come from it, is that
Jacoby Brissett will continue king mate, you know, with you know,
reuniting with Kevin Stefanski in Arizona. But all that all
could happen. Let's kind of go back to the Raven
side of it. So it's obviously a seismic decision the
(09:06):
Ravens when they fired Brian Billick. I know he's coming
off a bad year, but he had won a Super
Bowl not too you know, far in the distant past,
and had had a lot of success there. I think
had a really good sense of when the right time
was to fire him. They were so close to firing
John Harbaugh, according to all the reporting that was happening
(09:29):
around the time that Lamar Jackson first got into the lineup.
He had a five and eleven season, he had an
eight and eight season, And I believe during Lamar Jackson's
rookie year, you know, he takes over a team with
a losing record, he helps it. John Harbaugh puts his
arms around Lamar Jackson in a really productive way.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
They turn it around. In the short term.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Harbaugh gets one more year and that turns into a
really long and successful run with Lamar and Harbaugh together.
They didn't win much in the playoffs. They won four
games in the playoffs. They never won back to back
games in the playoffs. They made one AFC championship. Harbor
had started out his career winning a lot of games
in the playoffs. I think it's a little unfair to
(10:12):
just go off of that, and they are coming off
a thirteen win season, a twelve win season before this
eight and nine. I just think if you look at
everything he did there, it just felt a little stale,
like they kept replacing the defensive coordinator over and over
and over and over, and he's not a guy who
is providing schematic advantages and it just felt like a
guy who had unmassed so much power within that building.
(10:36):
And yet I think they're an organization that wants to
be front office run down from a strong ownership to
a really strong front office GM. Eric DeCosta has done
a good job. He's not going anywhere. To me, the
real strong people in this organization are Ozzie Newsom and
then Eric DaCosta, and so I think ultimately, as much
as they want to coach to come in and be
a part of this team for the next decade plus,
(10:58):
that they would feel come sortable because they have such
a strong organization in place. And that's why I've seen
a lot of Ravens fans be like, good luck trying
to find someone better than him, or I think trust
in your organization that sometimes great things end.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Yeah, you know, it's like it's a great marriage. It
was a great professional partnership, and it was it was
eighteen freaking years. That's a long time.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Because of the strength of the front office.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
And it's not just the GM, it's also the tenure
of the executive assistants who work right under the GM.
It is also the scouting The tenure of the scouting
department it's the language of evaluation and team building that
take a roster and turn it into a team, into
an ecosystem.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
That is what the Ravens have been so good at.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
It is the rare, rare case of I think it's
totally fine that there's going to be an overhang GM.
I think normally, I think that's a terrible decision for
a team to make, to have, and it usually sets
a coach up for failure at least a shorter leash
or some sort of power strung in the middle of
that coach's tenure. Maybe the coach wins, maybe it doesn't.
(12:03):
In this case, this is a rare example of one
where I'm like, fine, I trust who they're going to hire.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
I do. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I think it's a case by case basis. When it
comes to that, you're right. Probably more often than not,
it's not a great situation. But if for some reason
the Buccaneers wanted to make it changes here with Todd Bowles,
like you would trust Jason light to make the next hire.
And when you think about Eric DaCosta, he actually hasn't
ever made his head coaching higher and he's not making
it in a vacuum. I think Steve a shot of
the owner is the most important voice in that room.
(12:33):
But ultimately Harbaugh was an inherited coach for DaCosta and look,
Ozzie Newsom is still there. Jesse Minter is a guy
that Daniel Jeremiah quickly suggested it's pretty easy just from
the outside looking in to connect the dots because he
was literally in the building. He also has the Michigan connections,
(12:53):
you know, spending time with John I mean Jim back
in the day, and he is one name that comes
to mind. Any others that come to mind as potential candidates, well,
this is.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
The one also where I said, you know, I think
this ends up shaking Stefanski loose a little bit for
maybe other teams. But I do think Stefanski could also
be a candidate for this because if you think about
the quarterback and maximizing the quarterback, and no, Kevin Stefanski
has not maximized the half dozen like people that they
just decide to throw at the quarterback position over time
(13:25):
under that ownership group, and with that GM, I think
that he I think he's got this type of coaching
ability still in him, and I think that his in
terms of his leadership ability and the sort of the
tenor that he sets throughout an organization when he's with competence.
(13:47):
We've seen it before. He got sucked into the Browns
black hole here, and I think he has I think
he could do it again.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
I like that offense with that quarterback, the Kubik system,
I like it.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
I think that's what it's all got to be about.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
And I've never bought that Lamar Jackson was going to
be traded this offseason.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
I still don't.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
I mean, in theory, it's possible that they could. They
could put some feelers out and see what they could get.
I just don't think they're dumb like that. It's not
the time to do it. If the time to do
it would be, let's see Lamar Jackson with a new
head coach, with a new system, with a fresh start,
and if if after a year or two of that
(14:28):
that and you might say, well the trade value will
go down a little bit. It is so hard to
find Lamar Jackson's In the three seasons previous to this
last one, he finished first, first, and second in MVP.
I mean, what are we what are we even talking
about here? I just it's in the same way that
I don't believe thought that they would maybe make a change,
(14:51):
that they wouldn't be afraid to move on from Harbaugh
now just because I think they make moves that make sense.
It doesn't make sense to move on from Lamar Jackson,
that you change the coach and you see if a
new coach can help to improve whatever it is that
you're not thrilled with Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I'm not trying to say it wasn't either or I'm
certainly like not trying to say that. But if you're
going to decide between the two, right, the GM clearly
made his decision and the ownership group clearly made their decision.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Your your colleague Diana Rossini is reporting that a key
sticking point in negotiations were Harbaugh not wanting to move
on from Todd Monkin, the offensive coordinator. I think these
after the fact reasonings come out that they might, you know,
make someone look better, like that makes Harbaugh look better.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Who knows.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
I have a feeling like if they're coming into that meeting,
they kind of know what is the likely outcome of
that meeting. But that was part of it too, and
it's something to consider that I think Monkin did a
pretty good job overall coordinator. He will be a really
popular name in the coordinator interviews, and he is getting
(16:03):
a couple of head coaching and I think he is
getting a Tennessee interview interview.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yet this the fact that this came out though, I
keep we just keep forgetting about like the Titans and
the mix on all of this too, by the way,
and there once again rearranged infrastructure.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
You know what I think though, I.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Think that that coming out is a somehow and I
can't I don't want to trace it. I don't know
where it came out from or whatever. But like that's
John Harbaugh saying Todd's coming with me, because if he's
not willing to move on from him, that's loyalty. That's
kind of saying, like Todd Monkin's coming with me wherever
I go.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
And it's painful.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
This is a guy who, like I said, had an
incredible amount of power in that building and amassed it
and maybe well did that that power? It happens anyone
that's in a place that that long, you know, is entrenched.
He was like an institution. He's literally been the head
coach of the Ravens almost the entire time I've covered
(16:58):
the NFL and way more than half of the organization existing,
and so yeah, I think it hurts your pride when
when you get let go essentially and you want to
make it look as good as you can. Afterwards, that
Mike Preston article to me was I don't know if
it was a canary and the coal mine, But when
I saw that the Mike Preston article that was really
(17:19):
burying Lamar Jackson and had a little bit of they
have to make a decision about Harbaugh too, but really
positive as hey, they should trade Lamar Jackson. It did
feel like the moment where you can't imagine these two guys,
Harbaugh and Lamar Jackson coming back together. And I have
a feeling we're gonna get reporting about, you know, how
that relationship happened, and these things happen in sports, and
(17:42):
you know what I'm not.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
I'm not worried about John Harbaugh. He's gonna land on
to be fine. Just he'll be fine fine.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
I had thrown out the idea of Mike McDaniel to
Baltimore because I would like to see that. There was
a nagging part of me that was like I don't
know if the Ravens would actually do that. Is that
a Raven's type of move I don't know. I asked around,
and I he might not be the type of guy
I think they want to have a guy.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
I think he would be sick set up for success there.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
A lot of people would because I think it's a
strong organization you have Lamar Jackson, But he might not
fit the profile of the long term type of decision
that you're talking about, a guy that they want there
for the next ten to fifteen years. He might not
be like what they look for in a Raven, and
a guy like Stefan skierk jesse Minner might a little more.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
I would just say too on that point, because I
obviously I respect that opinion a lot. But I think
there are a lot of people in the league, there
were at the time and they are there are still
now who dramatically underestimate the stuff that Mike McDaniel is
made of.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Hey, now, I like that, and I agree, I agree,
but they might be some of those people in the
league that I think.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
That and no, I agree, That's what I'm saying. Yeah,
I agree, it.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Is really funny. Funny is the wrong word, But to
imagine the world where that that kick went through the
uprights the other night, it's it is do you think
Mike Tomlin would still be working for the Steelers if.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
That kick with Hey, we still have to kind of
see what shakes out for Mike Tomlin after the end
of the season too.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
I mean, like, how about Ravens coach Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
That's a joke of a thousand people just through their
phones or their TVs or however they're listening and watching this.
This is this is what we talked in our other show,
our show that's going to seem very dated now because
we recorded it previous to this.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
It's coming out Wednesday.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
Well, I will edit out any of the Raven's parts.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Eric's got it, but it it really is like.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
This, like beautiful poetry often bittersweet that football is that
it was on a special team's play. The last play
of his coaching tenure, the last shot of John Harbaugh
walking into the locker room that any person has of
his coaching tenure is him putting his arm around a
distraught Tyler Loop and showing in that moment, you know
(20:09):
the stuff he's made of.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
And I'm not wholly convinced that Harbaugh is gonna be
a great hire. I think two things can be true.
I think he can be a good idea for a
team like the Raiders or the Dolphins that.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
The concept of John Yeah, No, I think it's I think.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
He's a good higher.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
I think it's okay to point out that he's sixty
three years old, that he is a different sort of
coach where he's not bringing his offense his defense. So
it's really about the kind of building that he can create,
not just culture, but literally the highers, the coordinators, everyone
that's going to join him. And when you've been in
(20:52):
the league a long time, like the people that you
know the best are the people that have been in
the league a long time, and sometimes that works. And
I think he can bring a lot of stability. But
when he came to the Raiders, look, he was a
special team scored. I mean to the Ravens, he was
a special teams.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Coordinators casting Where you want him to go?
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Next? Where would I want him to go?
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Have a slip? You said the Raiders? The Raiders could
work continue?
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah, he you know, he gets to the conference championship
game his first year, then division Division Conference championship, wins
the Super Bowl. I mean, that is an insane run.
And I think he had a great example of what
more owners should consider, which is not taking offensive defensive coordinators.
He had a great feel of the league at that
(21:35):
time as a whole, as a special teams coordinator and
who to higher who and had and he pulled all
the right strings.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
He was kind of the perfect CEO coach. Can you
do that again? I would just say it's going to
be harder to do it a second time.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Yeah, I agree, it's going to be fun, though it is, it.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Is gonna be fun. I think I think we've said enough.
And yeah, I don't think the Mike Tomlin thing is
over necessarily either. If if he if he got blown
out by the Texans, it's gonna feel like more of
the same. And based on all the reporting, it sounds
like he might be the one that doesn't want to
enter that final year of his contract.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
So we might you know more in this space. But
thank you for not leaving the building too quickly.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
I ran back.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I was walking out and I saw it, and I
texted you in all caps first, and then I started
running back. I ran into one of our great producers
Quab and Quobs was stopped still in the hallway looking
at his phone, and I was like, we're probably gonna
do a show.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Let's go.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
We like Aaron Sorkin, walked and talked all the way back.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
And yeah, as I wasn't leaving or anything, but as
I got your text to get a call from another producer,
Jason Kleman, it's like, don't leave.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
We got to get this in the book. So we
appreciate everyone for checking us out. Like I said, we
will be back.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
On Wednesday, and it usually is a Tuesday show, but
it's a special one. We're going to be reading all
those holiday cards that we got and we're gonna be
giving out all the awards. A little bit of news,
including that the Kingsbury Fiery got some takes on that
we will see that
Speaker 2 (23:09):
M hm
Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're always ready for an
unexpected podcast. I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the Chris Wesley
podcast studio with Jordan rod Rieg, the same woman who
just twenty minutes ago left the studio to get ready
and move on with the rest of her day. And
then we called her back because I first learned from
(00:27):
your text that John Harbaugh has been fired as head
coach of the Baltimore Ravens. That comes from our insiders
at NFL Network and many other places, and so we're
going to do a show, a quick one about this.
You will also have our great See You Next Tuesday
show popping up in your feed on Wednesday, where we
(00:49):
go through some awards and some holiday cards, and that's
fun too. But man, John Harbaugh, there just aren't many
coaches in this history recent history of the NFL that
it's stayed in the job that long. He's the second
longest head coach in terms of tenure in the league.
But he's been the head coach of the Ravens for
(01:09):
eighteen of their thirty seasons. They've only had three coaches.
Marcha Broda had a couple of years and it was
Brian Billick, who won a Super Bowl. John Harbaugh won
a super Bowl. But it's been a while and they
decided this was the time to do it. I'll let
you start anywhere that you want.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Jordan, Well, we had thought that this was a really
genuine possibility.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
We've been banging this drama on NFL daily for a while.
That the timing made sense.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
The timing of it made sense.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
You have made the great point multiple times, Greg that
because the Ravens are a well run organization and that
they're a good team, that to look at the stall
outs that seem to happen to this team over the
last couple of years and the lack of playoff runs
and all of those things, that change was necessary. And
(01:58):
I think it's also true, and I know that our
friend Daniel Jeremiah believes this as well, that wherever John
Harbaugh goes next is going to have an incredible ripple
effect across the entire NFL. Even teams that currently have
head coaches employed may think long and hard about this.
(02:18):
And also that whoever the Ravens go with next, the
process is sure to be thorough and they want somebody
there for the long term.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
All great points. Let's start about the impact around the league,
because I do think that Harbaugh was the missing piece
for this news cycle, and there were six openings before
and people thought it was going to be less of
a year. Mike McDaniel in Miami feels like the obvious
guy who could be in trouble because they might be
(02:50):
a team that would want to go after John Harbaugh.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
There are two where there's smoke. There's fire flares.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
For me, you know when the hair on the back
of your neck starts tingling a little bit. And these
are the two for me. One that the team has
not definitiatively come out and said or stated that Mike
McDaniel is staying right, and we also have learned since
that he's not going to be taking a huge role
in the GM interviews to this point. The second was,
(03:21):
you know I reported this, ESPN initially reported this, and
I confirm this this afternoon via source that Chad Alexander,
the assistant general manager of the Jim Harbaugh led Los
Angeles Chargers with under former Ravens assistant Joe Hortizy, he
(03:42):
will be interviewing for the Miami Dolphins general manager position.
So if we're going to do the Windy pointing.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Yes, a little.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
What's going on in Miami?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
To me, the red flags point toward, first of all,
the Dolphins, I think rightfully going through all of their
options here, which is if Mike McDaniel stays in place
as the head coach. I think it's fair to say
that's a big if at this point. With Harbaugh loose,
then they are looking at three candidates who he has
(04:13):
worked with previously in San Francisco. Among those three, I
believe Josh Williams to be the favorite. Now they're also
looking at other candidates including are our guy Alec Hallaby,
who we have a great deal respect for on this show,
assistants Caama, the Philadelphia Eagles, and John Eric Sullivan, who
is an executive in Green Bay. At this point, so
(04:36):
to me, this Miami Dolphins team is doing a lot
of what ifs and research with the opening of these interviews.
Chad Alexander was not included in the initial announcement of
candidates that the Dolphins were going to bring in to
be interviewed by the team. This leaks out today this morning,
(04:57):
just an hour before it leaks that John Harbaugh has
been fired by the Baltimore Ravens. Chad Alexander spent twenty
years with the Baltimore Ravens.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Well, it's just funny how many connections there are and
how Michigan is at the center of all of it,
because I think the timing of it, that it didn't
take that long to happen, that it was not announced
as a mutual partying of ways, at least by Tom Pelsero,
Mike Garrifolo, just to name our guys. NFL network was
(05:27):
announced as a firing. The Ravens didn't want to wait
around either, and you just kind of again start connecting
to that Jesse Minter is going to almost certainly be
a candidate in Baltimore because of his history there, Yes,
potentially in Las Vegas, who knows, maybe in Miami Stephen Ross,
(05:48):
who has really strong ties to Michigan, and obviously John
Harbaugh and Jim Harbaugh and you're talking about Chadlott Alexander.
Timing matters here, and the Ravens might not have wanted
to wait a long around too long because some of
the people that they want to talk to mentor specifically,
you know, they don't want him to take a job elsewhere.
(06:08):
And similarly, like the Dolphins are getting there ducks in
a row for many different possibilities. Yes, the interesting part
about all this is there's no guarantee that they can
close that deal and get John Harbaugh because he could
have interest from other organizations. Giants reporters have more or
less reported and hinted around in the last day or
(06:30):
two that if Harbaugh were to become available, that he
would be a person that they would want to talk to.
Who knows if another Michigan connection, Tom Brady would want
to talk to John Harbaugh in Las Vegas. So Miami's
in a really interesting situation where like there may be
they're like, well, if we're ranking the options, McDaniels, maybe
(06:51):
two or I don't know if there's someone else, like
a three behind Harbab, But we got to see if
we can get Harbaugh first. And it's it's all going
to be fascinating over the next cuple weeks. And Frankly,
even though you know, I'm not happy for a guy
to lose his job, but I'm kind of happy because
I wanted to see another coach with Lamar Jackson number one.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
That's why I think it made sense.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I just think you had to find another coach from
its way, and then number two, it's going to be
good content like a lot of back room trading.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
There's like a lot of doation hiring Macnation.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Right because this is this is a situation where John
Harbaugh one hundred percent, even in ways that Jim Harbaugh
did not possess when he was looking into rejoining the NFL,
John Harbaugh has the cat bird seat here. John Harbaugh
will have multiple franchises where they currently have a game.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
For God, Gavin wouldn't hire.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
People were a little off put by by by all
of that.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
And but now John Harbaugh will not only have the
open jobs, a couple of the open jobs coming after him,
but also potentially jobs that aren't quite yet open and
coach and teams who have been considering possibly making a
change at head coach. For while, I think this is fascinating,
it puts Kevin Stefanski, previously considered maybe the top candidate
(08:06):
on the job market this cycle, it puts him down
a rung in terms of the potential. You might see
teams like the Arizona Cardinals step up, by the way,
who currently have in their employee a coordinator who once
worked under Kevin Stefanski Andrew Petsing and runs an offense
that it's very clear the GM likes and wants and
(08:26):
wants to run, and perhaps a change at head coach
and play caller is something that comes into play there
for the Arizona Cardinals. This entire where I don't know
that the Cardinals would have had a shot at Stefanski previously.
This all come this changes so much about this cycle
so early on in the cycle.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
It's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
I think you're right that the ultimate ending of all this,
and the biggest news to come from it, is that
Jacoby Brissett will continue king mate, you know, with you know,
reuniting with Kevin Stefanski in Arizona. But all that all
could happen. Let's kind of go back to the Raven
side of it. So it's obviously a seismic decision the
(09:06):
Ravens when they fired Brian Billick. I know he's coming
off a bad year, but he had won a Super
Bowl not too you know, far in the distant past,
and had had a lot of success there. I think
had a really good sense of when the right time
was to fire him. They were so close to firing
John Harbaugh, according to all the reporting that was happening
(09:29):
around the time that Lamar Jackson first got into the lineup.
He had a five and eleven season, he had an
eight and eight season, And I believe during Lamar Jackson's
rookie year, you know, he takes over a team with
a losing record, he helps it. John Harbaugh puts his
arms around Lamar Jackson in a really productive way.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
They turn it around. In the short term.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Harbaugh gets one more year and that turns into a
really long and successful run with Lamar and Harbaugh together.
They didn't win much in the playoffs. They won four
games in the playoffs. They never won back to back
games in the playoffs. They made one AFC championship. Harbor
had started out his career winning a lot of games
in the playoffs. I think it's a little unfair to
(10:12):
just go off of that, and they are coming off
a thirteen win season, a twelve win season before this
eight and nine. I just think if you look at
everything he did there, it just felt a little stale,
like they kept replacing the defensive coordinator over and over
and over and over, and he's not a guy who
is providing schematic advantages and it just felt like a
guy who had unmassed so much power within that building.
(10:36):
And yet I think they're an organization that wants to
be front office run down from a strong ownership to
a really strong front office GM. Eric DeCosta has done
a good job. He's not going anywhere. To me, the
real strong people in this organization are Ozzie Newsom and
then Eric DaCosta, and so I think ultimately, as much
as they want to coach to come in and be
a part of this team for the next decade plus,
(10:58):
that they would feel come sortable because they have such
a strong organization in place. And that's why I've seen
a lot of Ravens fans be like, good luck trying
to find someone better than him, or I think trust
in your organization that sometimes great things end.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Yeah, you know, it's like it's a great marriage. It
was a great professional partnership, and it was it was
eighteen freaking years. That's a long time.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Because of the strength of the front office.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
And it's not just the GM, it's also the tenure
of the executive assistants who work right under the GM.
It is also the scouting The tenure of the scouting
department it's the language of evaluation and team building that
take a roster and turn it into a team, into
an ecosystem.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
That is what the Ravens have been so good at.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
It is the rare, rare case of I think it's
totally fine that there's going to be an overhang GM.
I think normally, I think that's a terrible decision for
a team to make, to have, and it usually sets
a coach up for failure at least a shorter leash
or some sort of power strung in the middle of
that coach's tenure. Maybe the coach wins, maybe it doesn't.
(12:03):
In this case, this is a rare example of one
where I'm like, fine, I trust who they're going to hire.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
I do. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I think it's a case by case basis. When it
comes to that, you're right. Probably more often than not,
it's not a great situation. But if for some reason
the Buccaneers wanted to make it changes here with Todd Bowles,
like you would trust Jason light to make the next hire.
And when you think about Eric DaCosta, he actually hasn't
ever made his head coaching higher and he's not making
it in a vacuum. I think Steve a shot of
the owner is the most important voice in that room.
(12:33):
But ultimately Harbaugh was an inherited coach for DaCosta and look,
Ozzie Newsom is still there. Jesse Minter is a guy
that Daniel Jeremiah quickly suggested it's pretty easy just from
the outside looking in to connect the dots because he
was literally in the building. He also has the Michigan connections,
(12:53):
you know, spending time with John I mean Jim back
in the day, and he is one name that comes
to mind. Any others that come to mind as potential candidates, well,
this is.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
The one also where I said, you know, I think
this ends up shaking Stefanski loose a little bit for
maybe other teams. But I do think Stefanski could also
be a candidate for this because if you think about
the quarterback and maximizing the quarterback, and no, Kevin Stefanski
has not maximized the half dozen like people that they
just decide to throw at the quarterback position over time
(13:25):
under that ownership group, and with that GM, I think
that he I think he's got this type of coaching
ability still in him, and I think that his in
terms of his leadership ability and the sort of the
tenor that he sets throughout an organization when he's with competence.
(13:47):
We've seen it before. He got sucked into the Browns
black hole here, and I think he has I think
he could do it again.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
I like that offense with that quarterback, the Kubik system,
I like it.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
I think that's what it's all got to be about.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
And I've never bought that Lamar Jackson was going to
be traded this offseason.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
I still don't.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
I mean, in theory, it's possible that they could. They
could put some feelers out and see what they could get.
I just don't think they're dumb like that. It's not
the time to do it. If the time to do
it would be, let's see Lamar Jackson with a new
head coach, with a new system, with a fresh start,
and if if after a year or two of that
(14:28):
that and you might say, well the trade value will
go down a little bit. It is so hard to
find Lamar Jackson's In the three seasons previous to this
last one, he finished first, first, and second in MVP.
I mean, what are we what are we even talking
about here? I just it's in the same way that
I don't believe thought that they would maybe make a change,
(14:51):
that they wouldn't be afraid to move on from Harbaugh
now just because I think they make moves that make sense.
It doesn't make sense to move on from Lamar Jackson,
that you change the coach and you see if a
new coach can help to improve whatever it is that
you're not thrilled with Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I'm not trying to say it wasn't either or I'm
certainly like not trying to say that. But if you're
going to decide between the two, right, the GM clearly
made his decision and the ownership group clearly made their decision.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Your your colleague Diana Rossini is reporting that a key
sticking point in negotiations were Harbaugh not wanting to move
on from Todd Monkin, the offensive coordinator. I think these
after the fact reasonings come out that they might, you know,
make someone look better, like that makes Harbaugh look better.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Who knows.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
I have a feeling like if they're coming into that meeting,
they kind of know what is the likely outcome of
that meeting. But that was part of it too, and
it's something to consider that I think Monkin did a
pretty good job overall coordinator. He will be a really
popular name in the coordinator interviews, and he is getting
(16:03):
a couple of head coaching and I think he is
getting a Tennessee interview interview.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yet this the fact that this came out though, I
keep we just keep forgetting about like the Titans and
the mix on all of this too, by the way,
and there once again rearranged infrastructure.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
You know what I think though, I.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Think that that coming out is a somehow and I
can't I don't want to trace it. I don't know
where it came out from or whatever. But like that's
John Harbaugh saying Todd's coming with me, because if he's
not willing to move on from him, that's loyalty. That's
kind of saying, like Todd Monkin's coming with me wherever
I go.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
And it's painful.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
This is a guy who, like I said, had an
incredible amount of power in that building and amassed it
and maybe well did that that power? It happens anyone
that's in a place that that long, you know, is entrenched.
He was like an institution. He's literally been the head
coach of the Ravens almost the entire time I've covered
(16:58):
the NFL and way more than half of the organization existing,
and so yeah, I think it hurts your pride when
when you get let go essentially and you want to
make it look as good as you can. Afterwards, that
Mike Preston article to me was I don't know if
it was a canary and the coal mine, But when
I saw that the Mike Preston article that was really
(17:19):
burying Lamar Jackson and had a little bit of they
have to make a decision about Harbaugh too, but really
positive as hey, they should trade Lamar Jackson. It did
feel like the moment where you can't imagine these two guys,
Harbaugh and Lamar Jackson coming back together. And I have
a feeling we're gonna get reporting about, you know, how
that relationship happened, and these things happen in sports, and
(17:42):
you know what I'm not.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
I'm not worried about John Harbaugh. He's gonna land on
to be fine. Just he'll be fine fine.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
I had thrown out the idea of Mike McDaniel to
Baltimore because I would like to see that. There was
a nagging part of me that was like I don't
know if the Ravens would actually do that. Is that
a Raven's type of move I don't know. I asked around,
and I he might not be the type of guy
I think they want to have a guy.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
I think he would be sick set up for success there.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
A lot of people would because I think it's a
strong organization you have Lamar Jackson, But he might not
fit the profile of the long term type of decision
that you're talking about, a guy that they want there
for the next ten to fifteen years. He might not
be like what they look for in a Raven, and
a guy like Stefan skierk jesse Minner might a little more.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
I would just say too on that point, because I
obviously I respect that opinion a lot. But I think
there are a lot of people in the league, there
were at the time and they are there are still
now who dramatically underestimate the stuff that Mike McDaniel is
made of.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Hey, now, I like that, and I agree, I agree,
but they might be some of those people in the
league that I think.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
That and no, I agree, That's what I'm saying. Yeah,
I agree, it.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Is really funny. Funny is the wrong word, But to
imagine the world where that that kick went through the
uprights the other night, it's it is do you think
Mike Tomlin would still be working for the Steelers if.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
That kick with Hey, we still have to kind of
see what shakes out for Mike Tomlin after the end
of the season too.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
I mean, like, how about Ravens coach Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
That's a joke of a thousand people just through their
phones or their TVs or however they're listening and watching this.
This is this is what we talked in our other show,
our show that's going to seem very dated now because
we recorded it previous to this.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
It's coming out Wednesday.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
Well, I will edit out any of the Raven's parts.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Eric's got it, but it it really is like.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
This, like beautiful poetry often bittersweet that football is that
it was on a special team's play. The last play
of his coaching tenure, the last shot of John Harbaugh
walking into the locker room that any person has of
his coaching tenure is him putting his arm around a
distraught Tyler Loop and showing in that moment, you know
(20:09):
the stuff he's made of.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
And I'm not wholly convinced that Harbaugh is gonna be
a great hire. I think two things can be true.
I think he can be a good idea for a
team like the Raiders or the Dolphins that.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
The concept of John Yeah, No, I think it's I think.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
He's a good higher.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
I think it's okay to point out that he's sixty
three years old, that he is a different sort of
coach where he's not bringing his offense his defense. So
it's really about the kind of building that he can create,
not just culture, but literally the highers, the coordinators, everyone
that's going to join him. And when you've been in
(20:52):
the league a long time, like the people that you
know the best are the people that have been in
the league a long time, and sometimes that works. And
I think he can bring a lot of stability. But
when he came to the Raiders, look, he was a
special team scored. I mean to the Ravens, he was
a special teams.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Coordinators casting Where you want him to go?
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Next? Where would I want him to go?
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Have a slip? You said the Raiders? The Raiders could
work continue?
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah, he you know, he gets to the conference championship
game his first year, then division Division Conference championship, wins
the Super Bowl. I mean, that is an insane run.
And I think he had a great example of what
more owners should consider, which is not taking offensive defensive coordinators.
He had a great feel of the league at that
(21:35):
time as a whole, as a special teams coordinator and
who to higher who and had and he pulled all
the right strings.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
He was kind of the perfect CEO coach. Can you
do that again? I would just say it's going to
be harder to do it a second time.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Yeah, I agree, it's going to be fun, though it is, it.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Is gonna be fun. I think I think we've said enough.
And yeah, I don't think the Mike Tomlin thing is
over necessarily either. If if he if he got blown
out by the Texans, it's gonna feel like more of
the same. And based on all the reporting, it sounds
like he might be the one that doesn't want to
enter that final year of his contract.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
So we might you know more in this space. But
thank you for not leaving the building too quickly.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
I ran back.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I was walking out and I saw it, and I
texted you in all caps first, and then I started
running back. I ran into one of our great producers
Quab and Quobs was stopped still in the hallway looking
at his phone, and I was like, we're probably gonna
do a show.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Let's go.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
We like Aaron Sorkin, walked and talked all the way back.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
And yeah, as I wasn't leaving or anything, but as
I got your text to get a call from another producer,
Jason Kleman, it's like, don't leave.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
We got to get this in the book. So we
appreciate everyone for checking us out. Like I said, we
will be back.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
On Wednesday, and it usually is a Tuesday show, but
it's a special one. We're going to be reading all
those holiday cards that we got and we're gonna be
giving out all the awards. A little bit of news,
including that the Kingsbury Fiery got some takes on that
we will see that
Speaker 2 (23:09):
M hm
Host
Gregg Rosenthal
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