October 21, 2025 • 49 mins
Jaxon Smith-Njigba is a one-man army, the Texans offense is toast and Jahmyr Gibbs might be the best running back in the league. Those are but a few takeaways that Gregg Rosenthal and Nick Shook had on what might be the final Monday Night Football doubleheader in NFL history — Week 7 of the 2025 NFL regular season. In short, the Detroit Lions bounced back in a big way over the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and the Seattle Seahawks proved to be leaps and bounds better than the Houston Texans — a team that seems to have lost its identity on offense. All of that and more on the latest from NFL Daily!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Lions and all black blue helmets moving from right to
left after twenty two shot.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Comes up hand after good took.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
A middle bit twenty five totil to put race to
the forty.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
On the number, took fifty first side.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Forty foot race with midfield farside thirty twenty turn sel
five touchdown the Lions that scored on a touchdown run
by Trenier Gifts streaking for seventy eight yards.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
Oh, I love to hear Kevin Harlan on a Monday
night recap doubleheader, the last one of the year. And yes,
I'd love to hear a little offense on this night.
Jamir Gibbs from seventy eight yards out, part of a
twenty four to nine Lions victory over the Bucks. Yes,
(00:47):
on a Monday night that was full of defense. We're
not gonna start with the Texans and the Sea OTAs. Frankly,
the Houston Texans do not deserve it. I want better
for everyone who has stayed up late and is watching
us live. I want better for Nick Shook. It's one
thirty in the morning on the East Coast, and we
(01:08):
are gonna do this thing. And yes, we're gonna get
to Jamir Gibbs and his incredible day over two hundred
scrimmage yards. But I want to hear from you first Shook,
because I thought that was a impressive, defining defensive performance
from the Detroit Lions, a team that goes into their
bye week at five and two, and I think has
(01:30):
told us early this year, this defense, even if they
got no names we recognize in the secondary, is something
to be reckoned with.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, at this point the doubleheader, it might feel as
if that was ages ago. But I can tell you
that as the countdown ran down and we're playing all
that hype music and I'm dancing around, I had to
be filled with energy for how late this show is, right,
That's what the energy that the Lions brought to the
field tonight. They're missing guys all over the place. Taryn
Arnold not out there, Brian Branch not out there, a
number of other guys not out there. It doesn't matter.
(02:00):
We're going to see contributions from guys we've probably never
even heard of, and some key plays from a well
traveled veteran like Arthur Mallett, who makes an incredible interception,
I mean, what an inspired performance shutting down one of
the most explosive offenses in the league, absolutely putting the Buccaneers,
a team that had made their reputation through the first
six weeks on winning games in the final minute with
(02:23):
crazy finishes powered by their offense. They put them in
the bowl constrictor squeeze. They squeezed the life out of
them defensively, and they come away with a huge bounce
back when in the very friendly confines of Ford Field
to them and very hostile environment to the Buccaneers. A massive,
massive bounce back for the Lions.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Love the early comments keeping coming. Someone saying that the
Lions secondary tonight should be called the legion whom, which
I like, but I've heard it before over the years.
It's sort of been a thing over the years of
these no name defenses. And yes, I'm going to go
through some of the names because Brian Branch suspend did,
Kirby Joseph was out with an injury, and then they're
(03:03):
losing their starting three cornerbacks, so it just wasn't the
ones we knew that were going to be out. DJ
Reid of course, and Terry Arnold, but also their slot
cornerback Avonte Maddox is out for this game. So here's
who played a Meek Robinson. Who's t Harper? Is it
Thomas Harper? We got the Arthur Molette you're talking about.
(03:25):
We got white Side, Mike Whiteside making plays all over
the place, their number one cornerback, and he's been good
this year and has had an underrated career. I think Rock, Yes,
Sin actually got hurt in this game, so he left
at one point. You got Hallett out there. I don't
know who Eric Halla is, but he's making plays. You
got Lauren Strickland out there. And yes, they're going up
(03:46):
against a banged up Bucks wide receiver group that lost
Mike Evans to a collarbone injury in this game. We'll
talk more on that later, but they were just up
in the faces of the Bucks all day. And I
think you give credit to the game plan from Kelvin
(04:06):
Shephard by the Lions. You give credit to the linebackers
for the Lions who have been fantastic all year. We've
been talking about him, Jack Campbell and Derek Barnes and
Angeloni and then especially to that pass rush and Aiden
Hutchinson who puts up eleven pressures according to PFF. I
think starting to put together a Keith just with my
(04:27):
eyeball test for a defensive player of the year type
of consideration at least mid season all Pro. Those are
the more of the teams I'm thinking about now that
we're about six to seven games in just an awesome
night where the Bucks couldn't get anything going. Eight first
half drives shook for the Bucks and it took until
twenty five seconds left for them to have a little
(04:47):
mini drive to put some points on the board.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, and it was the results of the collective effort.
You get twenty pressures from your front, that's a thirty
seven percent pressure rate. That's how you knock Baker Mayfield
out of his comfort zone. He's somebody who usually deals
with well when operating within chaos, but tonight he looked
sped up the entire game. Once he lost Mike Evans,
things got that much more difficult, and the Lions' secondary
was able to capitalize on that. They played cohesively as
(05:10):
a defense. All the credit in the world to Kelvin Shepherd,
who clearly coached these guys up and had them prepared.
When you lose that amount of defensive backs, typically your
defense takes a massive step two or three backward and
you end up getting shredded by an opposing offense, especially
one of the caliber of the Buccaneers. Instead, he got
plays being made by guys like Hallett. Hallett. The only
Hallett I know is Mike Halt, the offensive line coach
(05:31):
at Toledo who recruited me when he was a head
coach at D three Heilberger University way back in the day.
I never heard of this guy before, but he's out
here making plays tonight. And again, it's a testament to
the resiliency of these Detroit Lions. They were able to
step into this game in which they should have struggled
defensively on a night when Jared Goff did not look comfortable,
(05:54):
on a night in which fourteen points in a halftime
didn't feel like enough, like they'd wasted their opportunity to
maybe bury the book and you. But no, the defense,
and we're not dealing with that tonight. We're not letting
that happen. Nine points is all the Bucks, all the
points you're gonna get, Buccaneers, and those fourteen points we
scored in the first half, they would have been enough
to win, because that's how well we're playing football right now.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Yeah, Like you mentioned the missed opportunities in the first half.
So you have a Jake Bates missed field goal during
the first half. You have a Jared Goff fumble during
the first half that killed the drive, and then you
had a fourth down fail during the first half where
they went for it and they didn't get a call
(06:34):
on a throat to Tasla, which Goff maybe overheated a
little bit, but I think it was a penalty and
they didn't call it on the rookie, and so you're thinking, man,
they should be up at least, you know, seventeen to nothing,
maybe more than that. And then the Bucks get three
points at the very end of the half on a
short drive and it did feel like, oh, man, here
(06:55):
come the Bucks again. They've done this again and again,
and I don't want to move the goalpost and justin
out how Yeah, like they're picking on the right tackle
a little bit for the Bucks. Who is a replacement
Charlie Heck. But this Buccaneers offense with those replacements put
up thirty eight points in Seattle on one of the
best defenses in the league, and for the most part,
have found a way to get it done. You mentioned
(07:16):
Baker struggling, and he absolutely did. Pressure was a huge
part of that. Let's actually listen to one of the
key stops in the first half. I love a little
Derek Barnes.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Three receivers right, one to the left, Mayfield's got it
back and looking Mayfield sidesteps, roll the left, punch once.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
Now we gonna get hits, gonna go down stack package
signed the thirty five yard line. That defense counverg stone him,
Jarrett Barnes wrapped him up and took him down.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Love that call. We always gotta get our guy Dan
Miller from w XYt on the call each and every week.
And so yeah, they were just smothering. And we'll get
to the Jamir Gibbs and what you were talking about
with GoF but I just kind of want to stay
on this side of the ball while we're here. It
was a bad game for Baker from the jump. M
(08:07):
one of the many reasons I hate the MVP conversation
everything like that. It's like it's going to change a
million times. And Baker specifically is a guy who is
streaky and you've seen a couple times this year where
he did not start off the game. Well, I'm thinking
of Week one specifically, but the Eagles game too, was
like up and down and then he finds it in
(08:28):
the end, right shook. But tonight he never really found it.
His eyes always seemed to be down kind of seeing
that pass rush. He was just a little skittish, kind
of jumping out of the pocket early. Reminded me a
little bit of the Browns Baker Mayfield. I give more
credit to the Lions than really getting on Baker, but
it was just a bad night. It happens. Great quarterbacks
(08:49):
have bad nights, and I just thought he missed a
lot of throws even when he had a chance to
make him. He wasn't getting his feet set and he
just missed a lot of throws tonight.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah. I actually texted my buddy, die hard Buccaneers fan.
I said, I don't think I've seen Baker this sped
up like this since probably the twenty twenty Divisional round
game against the Chiefs they lost an arrowhead, which was
a long time ago. But it just felt like that.
It felt like the moment suddenly was massive and as
if he was struggling with the pressure of it, which
was interesting. But I also don't want to excuse that
(09:19):
because I know that he's had a great year up
to this point. He had a rough night tonight. People
are gonna have rough nights. He's also playing without Chris
cob and he loses Mike Evans in the first half,
which then proves crucial on those fourth down attempts in
the fourth quarter when they have nowhere to go, because
that's usually the situation where he drops back and chucks
it up to Mike Evans and he makes a play.
That's just what they do. And he's also without Bucky Irving.
We talked about the offensive line missing players. They've been
(09:41):
missing guys up there and been shuffling guys around for
most of the season, so it all would make sense
that they struggled. It's just that on the primetime stage
against the Detroit Lions defense, we expect to have taken
a step or two back because they're missing guys too.
They flopped like they flat out offensively flopped all night.
I'm not saying it's a concerning sign for them long term,
but it is kind of I don't know. It gives
(10:02):
you a little bit of perspective, makes you reset, you know,
a little bit of a humbling on a night like tonight,
where you know, maybe you're not invincible. Maybe this quarterback
who operates outside of the pocket so well suddenly can't
find those opportunities to get outside of the pocket and
create with his legs, and and it just reminds us
that this is a long season and that these hot
starts can kind of level out over time when you
(10:23):
encounter these sorts, this sort of resistance that the Lions
presented tonight.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
They've had such a tough schedule on top of the
injuries that I really do think you have to think
big picture that they've managed it really well. Still ahead
in their division over you know, the Panthers and Falcons.
I feel great about them winning the division. Still, definitely
the schedule, it is tough after the buye. Relatively it's
(10:47):
like the Patriots, Bills and Rams, and so that's actually
the toughest, probably stretched in the remaining part of their schedule,
but actually compared to the teams they've faced, it's not
even as tough. And then it softens up down the stretch.
So the Lions and Bucks both talked in this game, hey,
this could be a game for seeding. We'll see the NFC.
There's a lot of good NFC teams, but I think overall,
(11:09):
big picture that they have to feel good. Unfortunately, you know,
the Mike Evans injury puts a cloud over the whole night.
Ama Abuka ends up playing in this game and just
didn't look one hundred percent. I think powered through what
was not one hundred percent in terms of his hamstring,
and he ends up with four catches on twelve targets tonight.
(11:30):
I think most of that was Baker missing throws, but
also maybe it's Abuka not being as explosive fighting for
things and long term. Todd Bowles confirmed after the game
that Evans is expected to miss most of the year.
Is what he said, broken collar bone. It depends how
the fracture, how big of a fracture it is. When
(11:50):
you can come back. There might be a chance that
he's back for the playoffs or something like that. We'll
have to find out. But obviously a killer moment in
the game, like it was on a what could have
been like a fifty yard catch and then he leaves
and I think the air got let out of them
there and it does lower the ceiling. I think a
little bit on this Buccaneer's offense because you just you
(12:12):
can't replace Mike Evans and it's the end of that
thousand yard streak. So pour one out to one of
the cooler streaks and obviously one of you know, my
favorite players to watch over the last decade.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, and a streak that was extended last year with
a really cool moment, you know, on the final play
of the regular season. We'll always have that as well.
But football is weird in that guys that you think
will play forever, or maybe guys that are approaching the
end of their career and you think we get one
more season with them, suddenly it can just vanish and
that is the last you hear from them. I'm not
saying that's the case with Mike Evans because I expect
(12:44):
this to be a playoff team and I think that
he will be ready, probably hopefully to come back and
contribute to them. But it is going to make the
road a little bit more difficult for them. They've proven
that they are good at overcoming these types of adversity
so far, but I do wonder, like a what where's
your breaking point? Where's your critical mass? With this? Having
Abuka on the field, was important, but he obviously wasn't
a one hundred percent. You hope that Chris Godwin's able
(13:06):
to come back soon. You hope that Jalen McMillan is
able to come back from the neck issue that he's
been dealing with since before the start of the season.
They are a very resilient bunch. It's just that tonight
it felt like it was too much, too combined with
the performance of Detroit's defense. But Greg, we cannot leave
this as a footnote. We cannot bury the lead. Jamiir Gibbs, Okay,
I mean, my god, what a night for the running back. Huh.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
He is so good that I think it's time for
who Delivered presented by Uber Eat and it's Jamir Gibbs.
You go over two hundred yards from scrimmage, one hundred
and thirty six and two touchdowns on the ground and
eighty two yards through the air on three catches, and
a few plays stand out to me, of course, you
(13:50):
know the eighty two yard touchdown, which was I think
the fastest running back has run something like that this
year in a few years on that touchdown, but also
there was an insane stop and start early in the
game in the first quarter where Servasier Dennis just flew
by him and like any mortal would have flown by him.
I was just like, everyone's got their own style, and
(14:12):
John Robinson has some crazy stop and starts, but Jamir
Gibbs has a certain sort of stop and start explosion
that's just next level to me. So there was that play.
There was the fourth down play where he just powers
through three or four defenders and I'm thinking, if David
Montgomery has the ball in this play, all respect to him,
there's no freaking chance he's gonna get that play. And
(14:34):
so you saw Jamir Gibbs on the goal line. I
think he's tougher than people think. He really can do everything,
and this game felt like it was coming for a while.
They weren't consistent all night, but he hit some really
big wow plays.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah, you're talking about the fourth and one where the
Buccaneers successfully string out the run. It was a perimeter
run and Gibbs just gets the first down sheer off
sheer Will, like just there's no reason he should be
able to clear the line the game, and yet he
does as he approaches the sideline, which kind of just
illustrates the type of night he had and the other
the goal line right you talked about. You know, he's
(15:08):
he's a violent runner, more violent than he would think
based on his build. But what really sets him apart
in those situations is his vision because there's like a
little priest that opens up there that he hits and
then he would most running back to get stonewalled there
because there's two defenders waiting for him at the end
of that little alley, and he spins right around him
and falls in the hand zone. That's what makes him special,
not only the fact that he's explosive and has incredible
(15:28):
burst and top flight speed. It was the fastest speed
reached by a ballcarrier this season. That's the stat you
were looking for, according to next Gen. But he also
has phenomenal balance and vision and when you combine all
of that as well as his ability to make a
difference in the passing game. Second play from scrimmage, he
catches a thirty yard pass, which like he's their opening
scoring drive. He can do it all. And I know
that this is the best backfield in the NFL, but
(15:50):
he is one of the best backs in the NFL too,
And both things can be true and It's a big
reason why the Lions have had so much success offensively,
even on a night again with the quarter didn't look good.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Yeah, I think they are trying to manage the David
Montgomery situation carefully. He's a guy they love, but the
offense is just so clearly not as dynamic with Montgomery
on the field. I also think it really is great
long term for Gibbs to not put too much pounding on,
(16:23):
like given tonight where it felt like he was on
the sideline too much. You know, he ends up with
twenty touches, so you're gonna have Jamir Gibbs as fresh
as possible. Like, twenty touches is more than enough. So
if you can pull that off, that's great. But ultimately
they're they're just a different team with him on the field. Hell,
let's let's listen to another Jamiir Gibbs touchdown. This was
(16:44):
in the third quarter and to me, really helped put
the game away.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
From the five of the Buccaneers. Detroit has it first
in goal golf under center Gibbs the back. This snap,
this fan handoff Gibbs nineteen is one spin ten touchdown,
five yard touchdown run by Tamir Gibbs, He's second touchdown
run Tonight, they vaults to Lians on top of the
(17:10):
Buccaneers twenty to nine, four and a half to play
on the food.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Great blocking there, And I would say that the Lions
offensive line is not what it once was. Yes, it's
more inconsistent. When they look good, they look really good.
But I don't think there is consistent play after play.
But Jamir Gibbs, to me, is better than he's ever been.
And yes, that was Who's delivered presented by Uber Eats.
(17:36):
When football makes you hungry, get game day deals on
Uber Eats, the official on demand delivery partner of the NFL.
Order now. And so I bring up the offensive line
to just kind of wrap it up here in this
game to get to what you were saying about Jared
Goff in the offense. I think the offensive line is
(17:57):
starting to affect him. And you know, he had he
had a couple turnovers tonight, a very low PFF score
which did not surprise me. Like forty five in this game,
Baker was also very low, and I think I think
that was warranted. But most of Goff's yardage came out
of you know, really wide open Aman Ross Saint Brown
(18:18):
on the first drive, and it dried up after that.
They didn't do a lot. That touchdown drive was huge
because it answered the one Bucks touchdown drive of the day,
and then the defense took over. But it does feel like,
if you wanted to be critical, took big picture. We're
seven games into this season. I think Goff's best season
in the NFL was twenty twenty three, right, you know,
(18:41):
when they got that close, that was the best their
offense ever looked. I think that was the best golf
ever looked. Gough was still really good last year, but
he was not as good as the year before. There
were more down moments, you know, he was still a
top ten quarterback excellent, but not as excellent. And then
I would say, so far this year, on balance, I
think he's taken another, you know, little step down. And
(19:05):
I'm trying to be careful how I say it, because
I still if you're ranking him, I don't know where
you have him in the QB Index. He's still somewhere
in the top ten to twelve. But I just I
just I just think their passing game production and golf
in particular, it's just like a slow it's a slow decline.
Can I Can I say that Lions fans that a
lot loud or you gotta just get crazy on me.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
No, you're fine with that. And we have three examples
that would justify that would be weak one against Green Bay,
last week, against Kansas City and today and they all
have similar themes, and that three defenses that know how
to get after the passer in a variety of different fashions.
You know, Jeff Hathley, Steves Bagnolo, and then Todd Bowles
dialing up tonight, Like the reason that he was uncomfortable
(19:47):
for a lot of the night is Todd Bowles did
a great job of scheming up blitzz at the right time,
Like he's sending you know, safeties and defensive backs from
sides where Goff never sees it coming, that sort of thing,
and it's working. And that's something that they're gonna have
to adjust to. And I think with this offensive line
having two new guys at starting positions, including a rookie
and Tate Ratledice, like you're going to get better at
that over time, but it's not going to happen overnight.
(20:07):
You're going to need the reps experience and also the
examples to show on tape to your guys, Hey, this
is what this is possible against this team or what
we faced already. How can we correct that and improve
and adjust to that so they can get better over
the course of the season. And I think that will
help GoF Golf is one of those quarterbacks though then
we know this that you have to block well for
him to really succeed and use his arm, talent everything else.
If you don't do that, and really you got to
(20:28):
build out of the running game, which tonight it worked,
but it didn't really carry over to the passing game.
In most cases, against most opponents, if you build out
of the running game, it will work because you'll balance
out the offense enough keep the defense on their toes.
They're not going to be able to anticipate and dial
up blitzes and just pin their ears back and come
after you. But in games like this, especially earlier in
the season, they're just gonna struggle. They're going to struggle
with adapting. So I think you're going to see this
(20:49):
unit get better in the back half of the season,
and Golf will probably play better. But he is a
guy that very much needs an ideal situation that starts
with the offensive line in order to reach his maximum potential.
Can just admit, now, I mean you lost, you know,
your starting center who is like a pillar of your
franchise in Frank Ragnow you're not going to be as
good and that's fine and.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
They and they might improve throughout the course of the season.
Shout out to Jonesy who says, y'all dedicated. Respect. I
mean it's late here, but it's one fifty two for Shook.
I love the energy that that he is bringing. And
the golf thing makes me think sometimes the team that
actually does get over the hump. This happens sometimes with
Patriots teams. What happened with with Colts team. It's happened
(21:30):
with you know, like the Aaron Rodgers team that broke
through and won the Super Bowl. Like sometimes it's the
teams that you don't see coming the whole time. And
to me, my biggest takeaway from tonight, and that's why
I started the show, and really from the beginning of
this season in the NFC, especially the NFC North is
I think the line's upgraded at defensive coordinator. I'm test
(21:50):
driving this take. I agreed, and I think I think
this defense really has a chance because when they get healthier,
they got Ali McNeil back. We should have mentioned that
Fat snaps tonight. He was walking back those Tampa guards
on some plays. He had a pass deflection. He made
a real impact. Al KaDee Muhammad had eight pressures.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
In this game, continues to play well.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
I just think they might have something there if they
can just get healthier on the back end, and they
should that they'll be a more complete team than the
one that made it to the NFC Championship Game two
years ago, and then certainly the one that just got
decimated by injuries. And they they're just I love this
Lion's team and I love that they're in the center
(22:34):
of the NFL. There's a question, you know, from one
of the viewers right now, who's better right now? Packers
are Lions. I'll let you answer, sir.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I don't think the Packers have put together one complete
game this year, and Matt Lafour kind of alluded to
that today when being asked about Aaron Rodgers of all things,
and their upcoming game against the Steelers, and I think
he was accurate in that they've had flashes. I think
Jordan Love hasn't put together a complete game yet, even
the forty to forty tigh Their defense, you know, was
a problem in that game. Their potential is maybe higher.
(23:02):
We have less evidence to justify that, but the Lions.
If I had to trust either team right now, I'm
trusting the Lions for the reasons that Greg just laid out,
Like Kelvin Shepperd's doing a fantastic job as a first
year defensive coordator. I wanted a joke like, so are
you saying he's like the twenty twenty six head coach
of the Tennessee Titans. At this rate may often that
they lose their coordinators. So if I trust what if
(23:24):
I trust either of these teams? The Lions right now.
Packers may have the higher ceiling, but they haven't proven
it yet.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Shepherd does give a little Robert salivibes in just.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
The little bit of I figured up on the sideline
getting in there with his guys mixing it up.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
You can just see owners seeing him on the sidelines
and he's jacked and he's fired up. So that reminds
me of Salad, just being like I want that guy.
That's a football guy.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
And better phrasing no all gas, no breaks thing. Whenever
he takes a job, please.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Right, and he's and he really is awesome. I definitely
trust the Lions more at this point. I mean, the
Packers could be great, but overall, there's another team where
we're just about to talk about in Seattle that's I
think been as good or better than both of those teams.
And the difference that the Lions have over the Packers is, Man,
(24:15):
you've got the culture tonight. Tonight was a culture. You're
able to coach up and bring in guys. Some of
them have been on the practice squad, some of them
are off the street, and you're able to put them
out there. And I love what they said to Troy
and Joe that, Like they told their players like this
isn't just for us tonight, this is for you to
(24:36):
show the rest of the NFL and make a career
like no one's ever heard of you. And they went
out and did that. That's badass. Like Packers put together
wins like that for a few years, and I would
trust you more. And I to just close the circle
here on this Lions team. Second half of their schedule,
you know, they got Minnesota at Washington and then they
(24:58):
have a game against the Eagles, they have a game
against the Packers again, they have an at Rams. There's
just gonna be so many days that the Packers, I
mean in the Lions, but especially the Lions are just
right there in the center of the NFL. And I
know they didn't look great last week, and they got
to get through their game next week before they get
(25:18):
to their Bible. I think they've managed their schedule really
well too, after that first loss to get here at
five and two, and they're set up really well. All right,
Let's talk about another team that is set up extraordinarily
well that I think is played about as well as
any team in the NFL this year, although they just
(25:41):
play with their food like a little too much and
strung out our Monday night so that we're gonna be
honking late into the night. Let's go to Seattle.
Speaker 5 (25:50):
First and ten inside the fifteen looks throws flyers to
the NZEL.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
Palls.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Up.
Speaker 5 (25:59):
Let's talk over the bar is Jackson Smith and Jacoba
and flags go down because you can't do that because
he grabbed the bar and that can make the whole
goal post wiggle and get out of alignment, but the
touchdown stands the fourth touchdown of the year for JSN
(26:19):
from eleven yards out.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
It was a journey that that call, and yes, it's
it's been a journey for Jackson Smith and Jigba to
go from the supposedly safe solid wide receiver draft pick
taken in the middle of the first round to a
guy on Monday Night Football that I think said to America,
I have been the best wide receiver in the NFL
(26:44):
this year. That got them to a fourteen nothing lead, shook,
and they should have won by so much more than
twenty seven to nineteen. But you gotta give the Texans
defense a lot of credit. I think we saw four
really good defenses tonight. The Bucks defense played great too. Ultimately,
the Seahawks offense did enough to win twenty seven to nineteen.
(27:08):
And yeah, what the heck, Let's start with Jackson Smith
in Jigba, because he finishes tonight not only with that touchdown,
but with eight catches one hundred and twenty three yards,
and no one's played better than him this year, and
he's playing the best secondary in the league, and he
is getting wide open and making just terrific hands catch
every type of catch you would want to see. What
(27:30):
do you love when you're watching JSN do work? Well?
Speaker 2 (27:33):
I actually just went and checked the stats real quick
because I don't routinely check the leaders week by week.
So those of you who think I just scanned the
stats for QB in Dex, you're wrong. I wasn't even
aware that Jackson Smith and Jiggle was leading the league
in receiving. But I'm aware now, and I'm aware after
the performance that he had tonight. It's no surprise to me.
He has been Sam Darnold's favorite target. They have produced
touchdown connections like that one multiple times. That Buccaneers shoot
(27:56):
out a few weeks ago, you saw that happen. It
happened again to night, big stones throw from Sam Donald
fitting down the scene there to find Jackson Smith and Jig.
But he can trust him because Smith and jigbu came
to the NFL with a complete route tree, with plenty
of experience gained and plenty of opportunity playing alongside the
likes of Garrett Wilson and Chris Olave and Marvin Harrison
Junior at Ohio State. He was ready, and yes he
(28:17):
didn't get going right away when he was sharing the
receiving room with dk Metcalf. But guess what, you know
why the Seahawks trade Dk Metcalf because they knew what
they had in JSN and now he's proven it in
his first year without him, and Sam Donald loves him.
I know I could sit here and talk about him
for days. But what I really love about this team
more than anything is the courage that they had to
(28:38):
deviate from the roadmap that most people thought was laid
for them with Geno Smith, with the old regime that
they had. They get Mike McDonald in there in the
first year. He makes an offensive coordinator change. He goes
to Clint Kubiak and they decide, you know what, blow
it up. Let's get the quarterback that fits our offense best.
Let's take the swing and the big risk on Sam Donald,
and it is paying off. He is a her if
(29:00):
it's fit for how they want to run their offense,
not just JSN, but also how they like to build
out of the run, how they like to have the
quarterback with his back to the line of scrimmage. Darnold's
owning it. And yes they only won by eight points tonight,
but the offense is potential and their production continues to
be visible on a week by week basis. It's just
that they ran into a defense that managed to keep
the Texans in the game when they didn't deserve to
be in the game, and they get another win that
(29:22):
they deserve. Seahawks are one of my favorite teams watching
in the NFL right now, and it's for reasons like that.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
I totally agree. And if these teams that are surprisingly
dominant so far this year, Seattle entered this game number
one in Dvoa. I don't know if the Colts you know,
pass them after this week potentially, but they're the number
one offense. The thing I love about surprise teams like
this is, Okay, you get to this point in the
(29:48):
season and you're like, these teams are going to be around.
They're going to be a big part of this season.
And they're now elevated to if the Seahawks are in
prime them, if the Colts are in prime them, although
they're not much, they'll be in some big four to
twenty five spots because they're playing so well now that
feels like a big game, and can they start passing
these new tests and the Texans are not a complete
(30:11):
team they're a mess on offense, but this was a
test for the Seahawks offense, and I think they you know,
I give them a B minus C plus in terms
of their offense, but they turned the ball over four times,
like we can't go too crazy about them in this game.
But they also were facing an incredible Texans defense. And
(30:33):
it's a reminder like all these teams that are built
around defenses like you better have at the very least
like an explosive offense to complement it. The Broncos, I
know they're five and two, but they really don't. The
Vikings certainly don't, the Browns obviously don't, the Texans obviously don't.
(30:58):
So a lot of these defense first teams don't have
the type of playmaker that JSN And yes, Sam Donald is,
and you're right, I'll wear it. I can't remember being
more wrong about a take. I was very confident in
than the move from Gino to Donald being a downgrade.
(31:21):
And I'm glad you brought up the scheme because he
does fit this scheme really well. And he's taken everything
that Kevin O'Connell taught him in Minnesota and everything that
he learned there, and I think you have to give
him more of the credit because he's taken it to
another level that some of the throws he made tonight
early in the game, I know, he made a couple
of mistakes late were awesome. You don't need him to
(31:44):
be perfect, kind of like Daniel Jones doesn't need to
be perfect. You just need him to make enough difference
making plays. And these are not easy completions that Donald's
pulling off.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Yeah, but what really warms my heart watching Donald succeed
with the Seahawks this year is you go all the
way back to his days at USC and I think
about that Rose Bowl performance against Penn State, and that
was like his breakout game in college, and he made
some spectacular throws in that game. I mean, it's a
memorable one for USC fans, whether you're a Sam Donald
Finn or not. And we didn't really get to see
that in his NFL career until moments last year. But
(32:16):
he was throwing to Justin Jefferson and Jordan Edison, he
was playing behind a rock solid offensive line, they had
a good running game. You could, you know, blame it
on all those other things and not give him the
credit he's earning the credit now like he that touchdown
pass to JSM was one, but he also dropped one
perfectly in the bucket to him down the sideline later.
He makes these throws routinely from week to week. He's
making throws like this. This is the talent that always
(32:39):
existed in Sam Donald that he needed the right situation
for it to fully show. And it makes them such
an enjoyable watch, like I said, and it also just
makes me happy that somebody who has been around the
NFL for a while now was at some very low
points in New York and Carolina, was a backup in
San Francisco, only got the job in Minnesota because Jays
(33:00):
McCarthy got hurt. Is now finally getting a real opportunity,
the real faith from an organization and coming through. And yes,
I know he made some mistakes. He fumbled in the
end zone, he threw a pick down the middle that
it was a great play by Derek Stingley. They turned
the ball over four times. I don't care because he's
still making the plays and propelling this team forward. And
combined with the defense that Mike McDonald's overseeing, they lack
(33:21):
consistency in the run game, They're still one of the
most consistent in one of the teams that I believe
in the most through seven weeks now, and I've been
on this train for about a month now because I
don't think they're going away anytime soon. In a lot
of it's because of Sam Darnold.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
A lot of it, it's Sam Donald supported, it's Donald,
it's the system, It's Jackson Smith and Jigba, who I
think is just so subtle, such a good route runner,
just is so complete and is more talented than people realize.
It's a really good tackle combination in the running game
and in the passing game helping him out, although you know,
(33:54):
the running game has been a little inconsistent, and more
than anything, it's the defense supporting it at all, Like
this is a top five defense. I expected it to
be and it absolutely is, and we saw it tonight.
Before we get to that, though, you know, you mentioned
that great throw the whole shot to jsn Overamari Lassiter
in this game, and he also had a throw to
(34:15):
Cooper Cup in the first half where what I loved was,
what's he's done really well this year? Just the subtle
pocket movement to like move to his left because the
Texans pass rushers did win quite a bit tonight, and
they they pressure him almost right away and he shuffles
up into his left It's not an easy throw to make,
and he just does it very naturally before hitting Cup
(34:37):
down the field for a throw. There was a throw
in the red zone early where he gets it to
Elijah Arroyo, and Aikman pointed this out. I was thinking
the same thing too, where he gets to like his
third read so fast, and that's what he's doing. He's
generally processing really quickly. Now, there were exceptions on this,
you know day, and that one of the exceptions was
the sack he took in the end zone. Yeah, let's
(35:00):
give some love to the Texans defense and Will Anderson.
Let's take a listen.
Speaker 6 (35:06):
Donald and the gun calling for the ball.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Here's the snap.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Donald at the goal line.
Speaker 6 (35:09):
Pumping Donald in trouble and Will Anderson has him down.
The ball is out and Will Anderson has it for
a touchdown.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
Pill Sten scores the terminator. That was midway through the
third quarter. It was seventeen to six at the time.
That was Mark Vandermere on Kilt and this game just
felt like it should have been over so to go
over it there. Okay, the Texans defense scores a touchdown
(35:37):
way before the Texans offense scores a touchdown. The Seahawks
are going in for points in the first half, and
they let Cooper Cup throw a pass. Cooper Cup is
now zero for five as a quarterback shookie in his
career with one interception. I don't think they should continue that.
And you know, then they played pretty well for the
(36:00):
most part on offense otherwise in the game. But then
in the fourth quarter, yeah, had another interception with about
like five or five, you know, eight minutes to go,
rather that Stingley play that you mentioned, and so they
just kept like giving the ball away. There was another
fumble in there mixed in that I'm forgetting off the
top of my head, but it was just like they kept,
(36:22):
you know, just shooting themselves in the foot on a
night where they almost had like a safety in the
first half that should have been called, and they almost
had a defensive touchdown until they fumbled the ball. That
was the other one that I was thinking of, like
where they fumbled the ball going in for a defensive touchdown.
So like this game could have been like forty one
to nine in another world.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Yeah, it was a catch fumbled by Elijah Royo that
was recovered by as He's al Shire. But yeah, that's
what made the fourth quarter so painful. And maybe this
is the natural like transition point talking about the Texans
and how disgusted I am with them because oh my god,
they forced four turnovers. You gave your offense so many
opportunities an offense mind you that put you behind the
(37:06):
eight ball multiple times in the first half by turning
the ball over on downs in plus territory for the Seahawks,
Like you're you're asking your defense to carry the entire
organization on its back on the road in Seattle, and
they're doing it. They're largely doing it throughout this game.
And you get down to the one yard line and
you can't punch it in. And I would not be shocked.
(37:26):
I'm not a fan of people losing their jobs, but
I would not be shocked if they made a change
of offensive coordinator because the way that they handled the
gold to go situation in the fourth quarter, the way
that they needed a heroic throw from c. J. Stroud
to Woody Marks to even get in the end zone
in the fourth quarter later which at that point, you're like, God,
I wish they would have converted the first and goal
from the one situation, but they didn't. And the way
that they handled fourth and short earlier in the game
(37:49):
by going away from CJ. Stroud and when Nico Collins
was out on the field at that time before he
left the game, by pounding it into a brick wall
twice with an offensive line that we've known is bad,
that you've had it proven to you multiple times over
last year, and the first part of this season is bad.
It is indefensible, It is disgusting. It is criminal to
allow a team with a defense this good, that is
(38:10):
that opportunistic, to not cash in basically at all in
a game that is very winnable solely because of your defense.
It drives me insane.
Speaker 4 (38:18):
The thing that kills me is they're coming off the
bye week, and I know it's a tough matchup coming
off of bye to go to Seattle, but your offensive
coordinator had two weeks to prepare for this, Nick Cayley.
They were trying to build off some positivity they had
in the last five quarters before the bye, and they
(38:39):
got their pants pulled down, like right away, there's just
free rushers all over the place. Right away, they're throwing
screen passes to Nick Chubb and it's going nowhere, like
right away, even when CJ. Stroud would make a nice
play in the pocket, Nico Collins of all people, is
dropping a good pass that could have gone for a
(39:01):
long play. Nick Chubb dropped a pass Niko cons unfortunately
left late in the game to have a concussion check.
So that's concerning for them. But the coaching was so brutal,
and you mentioned this short yardage situation late in the game.
They only scored a touchdown in this game because they
got fourteen drives, Nick, I mean that is a preposterous
(39:24):
number of drives, including what eight in the second half.
So it just took their defense getting the ball back
to them over and over and over again, and finally
they barely got one in in what wasn't quite garbage time,
but it was two minutes left when they scored, and
it was basically over then. And that wasn't even the
(39:44):
beginning of the short yard of struggles. They had a
drive stop in the first half because they couldn't get
a third and one, and then earlier in the I
think it was the third quarter, they go back to
back trying to pick up one yard. In the broadcast,
boot is just praying and they're telling them, don't just
run it. Don't just run the same running play again.
(40:06):
They're loading up the left side. They got seven blockers
for eight defenders, and what do they do, Shuki, let's
take a listen.
Speaker 6 (40:14):
Fourth down and a yard hand off for the left side,
and he's not gonna make it. He's gonna lose yardage
inside the forty yard line. It blows up and the
Texans on third and fourth and short can't get there
and move the sticks, so they turn it over on down.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
You're the emphasis in that call that can't get there.
It's like almost guttural. That's frustration coming out because they've
watched this offense week week and you know that they
just can't. And it boggles the mind that you would
think that, oh, just because the short yard situation, we're
gonna default. They handing it off. They did this in
the goal line later too, where you're like, you're a
yard away QB sneak. I don't care how much you
(40:52):
value your quarterbacks South and I understand he is absolutely
essential to your hopes of being a competitive offense, but
you're obviously not supporting him. In any other situation, you
have one yard to get, shorten the distance between you
and the line to gain. Please just make it simple,
because right now it was miserable. I tweeted during the
fourth quarter. I was like the misery I'm feeling. I
have no dog in this fight. I can't imagine how
(41:15):
Texans feel. Texans fans feel watching this offense. It's terrible.
Speaker 4 (41:20):
They had a twenty percent success rate, by the way
on design run, so as bad as the passing game is, like,
I get why they go so pass heavy because the
running game just feels stillborn. It's it's brutal. The offensive
line strategy, which I was trying to give them the
benefit of the doubt of the in the off season
(41:41):
in Toronto Airsrie the rookie is really struggling. It's tough.
But when you watch those plays, one thing that you
see shook and you saw this on the near safety
of CJ. Stroud on what was that their first drive
of the game. Actually where he's running backwards, there's four
Seahawks converging on him. Yep, there's like no Texans blockers
(42:05):
in the field. And that's My takeaway if you haven't
watched the Seahawks defense enough. Look, the Bucks got him.
That'll happen to great defenses. Sometimes they had a bad day.
But what really gets me is just the depth. There's
just so many different types of players. DeMarcus Lawrence had
a big game. He's great boy. Mafey is a terror
(42:26):
off the edge. Byron Murphy like blowing up screens is
a very athletic defensive tackle. You know, they're still missing guys.
Devin Witherspoon wasn't out there tonight. Julian Love in the
back end wasn't out there tonight. Like they just have
different levels to Ernest Jones has been great at linebacker,
Like I haven't mentioned nu Chenna Nuosu, who's one of
(42:46):
their They just on any given play, two guys, three
guys can win. And what a great way to play
team defense.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Plus there's the potential of rookie safety nick Emon Worri,
who's starting to come around and starting to make some plays.
He looked a little loss in the first month of
this season, but I think he's starting to get his
fee underneath him. He made some plays tonight as well,
and like there was a play where Leonard Williams drops
in coverage and they throw a check down to I
think it was Braxton Burials they had lined up back there.
He chases him down in the flat look. I know
(43:13):
Leonard Williams is a freak athlete, he has been since
his days at USC, But to watch a guy of
that size move with that quickness and he was so
light on his feet laterally and make a play like that,
it was still blew my mind. And I know he's
got that potential and has had it for years. That's
the strength of their defense, and it's not when I
complained about the Texans offense. It has nothing to do
with how I feel about the Seahawks defense, because again,
(43:34):
both things canna be treat You can have terrible offensive
strategy and also be playing against a good defense. This
defense is just getting better by the week, and they're
another big reason why I think, again, the Seahawks team
is not going anywhere. They're going to be hanging around.
They're going to be a player in the NFC all
year long.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
Yep. They had six different Seahawks with run stuffs in
this game, So that's like stopped at or behind the
line of scrimmage. Like I was trying to say, it's
just it's a read the wealth type of defense. It's impressive.
They're number one in DVOA. You know, I don't know
what power rankings is supposed to judge. You know, Are
(44:10):
they the most likely team to make the Super Bowl?
Speaker 2 (44:13):
No?
Speaker 4 (44:13):
Because the NFC is so deep, I think on balanced.
If I had to choose a team that's played the best,
most complete brand of ball through seven weeks in the NFC,
my choice would be the Seahawks. Now they're in a
really tough division. They're tied three way tie with the
forty nine ers in the Rams at five and two.
(44:35):
It's obviously a really good conference with other contenders, two
of whom played tonight, and you have the defending champs.
It's wide open, but they're in that mix and hopefully
that can be some solace to Seahawks fans on a
night that will go down and Seattle sports infamy, really
(44:57):
and it'll always be this footnote that the Seahawks played
last night. If you were watching the Monday night football broadcast,
it was crazy to see the crowd shots of all
the Mariners fans that were at the Seahawks game and
just the heartbreak kind of wash over them as they
(45:18):
realized what happened in the ALCS. If you're no overseas
listeners and have no idea what we're talking about. The Seahawks,
you know, played tonight at the same time as the
Seattle Mariners, who lost Game seven, trying to make the
World Series for the first time in their franchise history,
and they gave up a three run homer in the
seventh and ended up losing a great baseball game.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Yeah, four to three. And look, as somebody who grew
up in Northeast Ohio and lives in Cleveland, I understand
the torture of watching your team lose on the doorstep
of the World Series. I understand the torture of watching
your team below a three one leading the World Series.
But Seahawks fans, Mariners fans, you're a loyal bunch. You
got a big win on the NFL field tonight. I
know it doesn't matter as much Game seven of the
(46:00):
LCS did, but you're you're a good group. You'll be
back next year, hopefully for the Mariners.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
You do feel for like real deal fans because just
one of those things I watched they've been I've been
around for a while, they've never got there. And I
think if the Lions lost, which they did in the
NFC Championship, it it's a lot like that loss. You
had a big lead, you're so close, and they have
(46:28):
the idea that if they can just make it once
even that might be enough. That would be one great
thing to celebrate, and you can't even have that.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
I watched the Cleveland Guardians get eliminated at home in
the playoffs in person each of the last two years.
And I also have one triumph in my life as
a sports fan. It was when the Cavaliers came back
from three to three to one in twenty sixteen. I
understand you're paying guys.
Speaker 4 (46:49):
I do you have to watch Troy O'Leary bash like
eight RBIs in a game five Cleveland Red Sox in
like two thousand and two.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
That maybe you do that to me when I was
a kid. Why would you do that?
Speaker 4 (47:01):
Sorry? Sorry? That was at the time one of my
favorite memories. Pour one out for uh, you know, the
big dumper in the Great Mariner season. Okay, I want
to bring up something crazy, which is that our great
producer Chris Babona put a pole up of everyone crazy
(47:21):
enough to be watching. If you're on the East coast,
it's two eighteen. Good job by you, shucky, and we'll
let you go to sleep. We put a pole up.
Who would you start your team with at wide receiver? Now?
I said that JSN has been the best wide receiver
in the league so far this season. The fact that
(47:43):
more people voted for him over Jamar Chase and Justin
Jefferson to start a team with is absolutely outrageous and
the biggest example of recency bias I've ever seen. Or
maybe you know it's just Seahawks fans.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
Yeah, because what is it? Eleven eighteen and Pacific time zone,
so we get more Seahawks fans in here. That's what's
going on. You guys are nuts. I would definitely play
Jamar Chase over him, but he's having a great year.
You got your game, recognize his game.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
I think if I was starting a franchise, he is
definitely in the top five now among receivers. The thing
is to be a great like Chase and Jefferson is,
and they're having great seasons by the way, too. You
have to do it year after year. Those guys are
first ballot Hall of Famers in the middle of their primes,
(48:35):
and so you just got to see it more for Jason.
But if he stays at this level for two more years, sure, yeah,
he's gonna be right there. We will be right back
on this show sooner than you can even imagine. Colleen
Wolf and I will be in the studio really looking
forward to that on Tuesday. And in the meantime, we
(48:58):
appreciate everyone who's stayed up with us, and everyone just
can say goodbye to double headers, Nick Schuk, maybe forever
it could be, this could be it?
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Are you?
Speaker 4 (49:06):
How will you celebrate the end of double headers in
the NFL.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
By watching one more game from this week and going
to bed? And I actually understand why they're going away. Tonight.
I think is the perfect example of why they're going away.
Speaker 4 (49:21):
Yeah, that that was a tough game to end on.
If it is over and they say it's gonna be over,
if the Endful Network ESPN deal goes through, all right,
that's too much. We'll we'll go uh, we'll go into
the night, and we will see you on Tuesday.
Lions and all black blue helmets moving from right to
left after twenty two shot.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Comes up hand after good took.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
A middle bit twenty five totil to put race to
the forty.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
On the number, took fifty first side.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Forty foot race with midfield farside thirty twenty turn sel
five touchdown the Lions that scored on a touchdown run
by Trenier Gifts streaking for seventy eight yards.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
Oh, I love to hear Kevin Harlan on a Monday
night recap doubleheader, the last one of the year. And yes,
I'd love to hear a little offense on this night.
Jamir Gibbs from seventy eight yards out, part of a
twenty four to nine Lions victory over the Bucks. Yes,
(00:47):
on a Monday night that was full of defense. We're
not gonna start with the Texans and the Sea OTAs. Frankly,
the Houston Texans do not deserve it. I want better
for everyone who has stayed up late and is watching
us live. I want better for Nick Shook. It's one
thirty in the morning on the East Coast, and we
(01:08):
are gonna do this thing. And yes, we're gonna get
to Jamir Gibbs and his incredible day over two hundred
scrimmage yards. But I want to hear from you first Shook,
because I thought that was a impressive, defining defensive performance
from the Detroit Lions, a team that goes into their
bye week at five and two, and I think has
(01:30):
told us early this year, this defense, even if they
got no names we recognize in the secondary, is something
to be reckoned with.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, at this point the doubleheader, it might feel as
if that was ages ago. But I can tell you
that as the countdown ran down and we're playing all
that hype music and I'm dancing around, I had to
be filled with energy for how late this show is, right,
That's what the energy that the Lions brought to the
field tonight. They're missing guys all over the place. Taryn
Arnold not out there, Brian Branch not out there, a
number of other guys not out there. It doesn't matter.
(02:00):
We're going to see contributions from guys we've probably never
even heard of, and some key plays from a well
traveled veteran like Arthur Mallett, who makes an incredible interception,
I mean, what an inspired performance shutting down one of
the most explosive offenses in the league, absolutely putting the Buccaneers,
a team that had made their reputation through the first
six weeks on winning games in the final minute with
(02:23):
crazy finishes powered by their offense. They put them in
the bowl constrictor squeeze. They squeezed the life out of
them defensively, and they come away with a huge bounce
back when in the very friendly confines of Ford Field
to them and very hostile environment to the Buccaneers. A massive,
massive bounce back for the Lions.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Love the early comments keeping coming. Someone saying that the
Lions secondary tonight should be called the legion whom, which
I like, but I've heard it before over the years.
It's sort of been a thing over the years of
these no name defenses. And yes, I'm going to go
through some of the names because Brian Branch suspend did,
Kirby Joseph was out with an injury, and then they're
(03:03):
losing their starting three cornerbacks, so it just wasn't the
ones we knew that were going to be out. DJ
Reid of course, and Terry Arnold, but also their slot
cornerback Avonte Maddox is out for this game. So here's
who played a Meek Robinson. Who's t Harper? Is it
Thomas Harper? We got the Arthur Molette you're talking about.
(03:25):
We got white Side, Mike Whiteside making plays all over
the place, their number one cornerback, and he's been good
this year and has had an underrated career. I think Rock, Yes,
Sin actually got hurt in this game, so he left
at one point. You got Hallett out there. I don't
know who Eric Halla is, but he's making plays. You
got Lauren Strickland out there. And yes, they're going up
(03:46):
against a banged up Bucks wide receiver group that lost
Mike Evans to a collarbone injury in this game. We'll
talk more on that later, but they were just up
in the faces of the Bucks all day. And I
think you give credit to the game plan from Kelvin
(04:06):
Shephard by the Lions. You give credit to the linebackers
for the Lions who have been fantastic all year. We've
been talking about him, Jack Campbell and Derek Barnes and
Angeloni and then especially to that pass rush and Aiden
Hutchinson who puts up eleven pressures according to PFF. I
think starting to put together a Keith just with my
(04:27):
eyeball test for a defensive player of the year type
of consideration at least mid season all Pro. Those are
the more of the teams I'm thinking about now that
we're about six to seven games in just an awesome
night where the Bucks couldn't get anything going. Eight first
half drives shook for the Bucks and it took until
twenty five seconds left for them to have a little
(04:47):
mini drive to put some points on the board.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, and it was the results of the collective effort.
You get twenty pressures from your front, that's a thirty
seven percent pressure rate. That's how you knock Baker Mayfield
out of his comfort zone. He's somebody who usually deals
with well when operating within chaos, but tonight he looked
sped up the entire game. Once he lost Mike Evans,
things got that much more difficult, and the Lions' secondary
was able to capitalize on that. They played cohesively as
(05:10):
a defense. All the credit in the world to Kelvin Shepherd,
who clearly coached these guys up and had them prepared.
When you lose that amount of defensive backs, typically your
defense takes a massive step two or three backward and
you end up getting shredded by an opposing offense, especially
one of the caliber of the Buccaneers. Instead, he got
plays being made by guys like Hallett. Hallett. The only
Hallett I know is Mike Halt, the offensive line coach
(05:31):
at Toledo who recruited me when he was a head
coach at D three Heilberger University way back in the day.
I never heard of this guy before, but he's out
here making plays tonight. And again, it's a testament to
the resiliency of these Detroit Lions. They were able to
step into this game in which they should have struggled
defensively on a night when Jared Goff did not look comfortable,
(05:54):
on a night in which fourteen points in a halftime
didn't feel like enough, like they'd wasted their opportunity to
maybe bury the book and you. But no, the defense,
and we're not dealing with that tonight. We're not letting
that happen. Nine points is all the Bucks, all the
points you're gonna get, Buccaneers, and those fourteen points we
scored in the first half, they would have been enough
to win, because that's how well we're playing football right now.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Yeah, Like you mentioned the missed opportunities in the first half.
So you have a Jake Bates missed field goal during
the first half. You have a Jared Goff fumble during
the first half that killed the drive, and then you
had a fourth down fail during the first half where
they went for it and they didn't get a call
(06:34):
on a throat to Tasla, which Goff maybe overheated a
little bit, but I think it was a penalty and
they didn't call it on the rookie, and so you're thinking, man,
they should be up at least, you know, seventeen to nothing,
maybe more than that. And then the Bucks get three
points at the very end of the half on a
short drive and it did feel like, oh, man, here
(06:55):
come the Bucks again. They've done this again and again,
and I don't want to move the goalpost and justin
out how Yeah, like they're picking on the right tackle
a little bit for the Bucks. Who is a replacement
Charlie Heck. But this Buccaneers offense with those replacements put
up thirty eight points in Seattle on one of the
best defenses in the league, and for the most part,
have found a way to get it done. You mentioned
(07:16):
Baker struggling, and he absolutely did. Pressure was a huge
part of that. Let's actually listen to one of the
key stops in the first half. I love a little
Derek Barnes.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Three receivers right, one to the left, Mayfield's got it
back and looking Mayfield sidesteps, roll the left, punch once.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
Now we gonna get hits, gonna go down stack package
signed the thirty five yard line. That defense counverg stone him,
Jarrett Barnes wrapped him up and took him down.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Love that call. We always gotta get our guy Dan
Miller from w XYt on the call each and every week.
And so yeah, they were just smothering. And we'll get
to the Jamir Gibbs and what you were talking about
with GoF but I just kind of want to stay
on this side of the ball while we're here. It
was a bad game for Baker from the jump. M
(08:07):
one of the many reasons I hate the MVP conversation
everything like that. It's like it's going to change a
million times. And Baker specifically is a guy who is
streaky and you've seen a couple times this year where
he did not start off the game. Well, I'm thinking
of Week one specifically, but the Eagles game too, was
like up and down and then he finds it in
(08:28):
the end, right shook. But tonight he never really found it.
His eyes always seemed to be down kind of seeing
that pass rush. He was just a little skittish, kind
of jumping out of the pocket early. Reminded me a
little bit of the Browns Baker Mayfield. I give more
credit to the Lions than really getting on Baker, but
it was just a bad night. It happens. Great quarterbacks
(08:49):
have bad nights, and I just thought he missed a
lot of throws even when he had a chance to
make him. He wasn't getting his feet set and he
just missed a lot of throws tonight.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah. I actually texted my buddy, die hard Buccaneers fan.
I said, I don't think I've seen Baker this sped
up like this since probably the twenty twenty Divisional round
game against the Chiefs they lost an arrowhead, which was
a long time ago. But it just felt like that.
It felt like the moment suddenly was massive and as
if he was struggling with the pressure of it, which
was interesting. But I also don't want to excuse that
(09:19):
because I know that he's had a great year up
to this point. He had a rough night tonight. People
are gonna have rough nights. He's also playing without Chris
cob and he loses Mike Evans in the first half,
which then proves crucial on those fourth down attempts in
the fourth quarter when they have nowhere to go, because
that's usually the situation where he drops back and chucks
it up to Mike Evans and he makes a play.
That's just what they do. And he's also without Bucky Irving.
We talked about the offensive line missing players. They've been
(09:41):
missing guys up there and been shuffling guys around for
most of the season, so it all would make sense
that they struggled. It's just that on the primetime stage
against the Detroit Lions defense, we expect to have taken
a step or two back because they're missing guys too.
They flopped like they flat out offensively flopped all night.
I'm not saying it's a concerning sign for them long term,
but it is kind of I don't know. It gives
(10:02):
you a little bit of perspective, makes you reset, you know,
a little bit of a humbling on a night like tonight,
where you know, maybe you're not invincible. Maybe this quarterback
who operates outside of the pocket so well suddenly can't
find those opportunities to get outside of the pocket and
create with his legs, and and it just reminds us
that this is a long season and that these hot
starts can kind of level out over time when you
(10:23):
encounter these sorts, this sort of resistance that the Lions
presented tonight.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
They've had such a tough schedule on top of the
injuries that I really do think you have to think
big picture that they've managed it really well. Still ahead
in their division over you know, the Panthers and Falcons.
I feel great about them winning the division. Still, definitely
the schedule, it is tough after the buye. Relatively it's
(10:47):
like the Patriots, Bills and Rams, and so that's actually
the toughest, probably stretched in the remaining part of their schedule,
but actually compared to the teams they've faced, it's not
even as tough. And then it softens up down the stretch.
So the Lions and Bucks both talked in this game, hey,
this could be a game for seeding. We'll see the NFC.
There's a lot of good NFC teams, but I think overall,
(11:09):
big picture that they have to feel good. Unfortunately, you know,
the Mike Evans injury puts a cloud over the whole night.
Ama Abuka ends up playing in this game and just
didn't look one hundred percent. I think powered through what
was not one hundred percent in terms of his hamstring,
and he ends up with four catches on twelve targets tonight.
(11:30):
I think most of that was Baker missing throws, but
also maybe it's Abuka not being as explosive fighting for
things and long term. Todd Bowles confirmed after the game
that Evans is expected to miss most of the year.
Is what he said, broken collar bone. It depends how
the fracture, how big of a fracture it is. When
(11:50):
you can come back. There might be a chance that
he's back for the playoffs or something like that. We'll
have to find out. But obviously a killer moment in
the game, like it was on a what could have
been like a fifty yard catch and then he leaves
and I think the air got let out of them
there and it does lower the ceiling. I think a
little bit on this Buccaneer's offense because you just you
(12:12):
can't replace Mike Evans and it's the end of that
thousand yard streak. So pour one out to one of
the cooler streaks and obviously one of you know, my
favorite players to watch over the last decade.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, and a streak that was extended last year with
a really cool moment, you know, on the final play
of the regular season. We'll always have that as well.
But football is weird in that guys that you think
will play forever, or maybe guys that are approaching the
end of their career and you think we get one
more season with them, suddenly it can just vanish and
that is the last you hear from them. I'm not
saying that's the case with Mike Evans because I expect
(12:44):
this to be a playoff team and I think that
he will be ready, probably hopefully to come back and
contribute to them. But it is going to make the
road a little bit more difficult for them. They've proven
that they are good at overcoming these types of adversity
so far, but I do wonder, like a what where's
your breaking point? Where's your critical mass? With this? Having
Abuka on the field, was important, but he obviously wasn't
a one hundred percent. You hope that Chris Godwin's able
(13:06):
to come back soon. You hope that Jalen McMillan is
able to come back from the neck issue that he's
been dealing with since before the start of the season.
They are a very resilient bunch. It's just that tonight
it felt like it was too much, too combined with
the performance of Detroit's defense. But Greg, we cannot leave
this as a footnote. We cannot bury the lead. Jamiir Gibbs, Okay,
I mean, my god, what a night for the running back. Huh.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
He is so good that I think it's time for
who Delivered presented by Uber Eat and it's Jamir Gibbs.
You go over two hundred yards from scrimmage, one hundred
and thirty six and two touchdowns on the ground and
eighty two yards through the air on three catches, and
a few plays stand out to me, of course, you
(13:50):
know the eighty two yard touchdown, which was I think
the fastest running back has run something like that this
year in a few years on that touchdown, but also
there was an insane stop and start early in the
game in the first quarter where Servasier Dennis just flew
by him and like any mortal would have flown by him.
I was just like, everyone's got their own style, and
(14:12):
John Robinson has some crazy stop and starts, but Jamir
Gibbs has a certain sort of stop and start explosion
that's just next level to me. So there was that play.
There was the fourth down play where he just powers
through three or four defenders and I'm thinking, if David
Montgomery has the ball in this play, all respect to him,
there's no freaking chance he's gonna get that play. And
(14:34):
so you saw Jamir Gibbs on the goal line. I
think he's tougher than people think. He really can do everything,
and this game felt like it was coming for a while.
They weren't consistent all night, but he hit some really
big wow plays.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah, you're talking about the fourth and one where the
Buccaneers successfully string out the run. It was a perimeter
run and Gibbs just gets the first down sheer off
sheer Will, like just there's no reason he should be
able to clear the line the game, and yet he
does as he approaches the sideline, which kind of just
illustrates the type of night he had and the other
the goal line right you talked about. You know, he's
(15:08):
he's a violent runner, more violent than he would think
based on his build. But what really sets him apart
in those situations is his vision because there's like a
little priest that opens up there that he hits and
then he would most running back to get stonewalled there
because there's two defenders waiting for him at the end
of that little alley, and he spins right around him
and falls in the hand zone. That's what makes him special,
not only the fact that he's explosive and has incredible
(15:28):
burst and top flight speed. It was the fastest speed
reached by a ballcarrier this season. That's the stat you
were looking for, according to next Gen. But he also
has phenomenal balance and vision and when you combine all
of that as well as his ability to make a
difference in the passing game. Second play from scrimmage, he
catches a thirty yard pass, which like he's their opening
scoring drive. He can do it all. And I know
that this is the best backfield in the NFL, but
(15:50):
he is one of the best backs in the NFL too,
And both things can be true and It's a big
reason why the Lions have had so much success offensively,
even on a night again with the quarter didn't look good.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Yeah, I think they are trying to manage the David
Montgomery situation carefully. He's a guy they love, but the
offense is just so clearly not as dynamic with Montgomery
on the field. I also think it really is great
long term for Gibbs to not put too much pounding on,
(16:23):
like given tonight where it felt like he was on
the sideline too much. You know, he ends up with
twenty touches, so you're gonna have Jamir Gibbs as fresh
as possible. Like, twenty touches is more than enough. So
if you can pull that off, that's great. But ultimately
they're they're just a different team with him on the field. Hell,
let's let's listen to another Jamiir Gibbs touchdown. This was
(16:44):
in the third quarter and to me, really helped put
the game away.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
From the five of the Buccaneers. Detroit has it first
in goal golf under center Gibbs the back. This snap,
this fan handoff Gibbs nineteen is one spin ten touchdown,
five yard touchdown run by Tamir Gibbs, He's second touchdown
run Tonight, they vaults to Lians on top of the
(17:10):
Buccaneers twenty to nine, four and a half to play
on the food.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Great blocking there, And I would say that the Lions
offensive line is not what it once was. Yes, it's
more inconsistent. When they look good, they look really good.
But I don't think there is consistent play after play.
But Jamir Gibbs, to me, is better than he's ever been.
And yes, that was Who's delivered presented by Uber Eats.
(17:36):
When football makes you hungry, get game day deals on
Uber Eats, the official on demand delivery partner of the NFL.
Order now. And so I bring up the offensive line
to just kind of wrap it up here in this
game to get to what you were saying about Jared
Goff in the offense. I think the offensive line is
(17:57):
starting to affect him. And you know, he had he
had a couple turnovers tonight, a very low PFF score
which did not surprise me. Like forty five in this game,
Baker was also very low, and I think I think
that was warranted. But most of Goff's yardage came out
of you know, really wide open Aman Ross Saint Brown
(18:18):
on the first drive, and it dried up after that.
They didn't do a lot. That touchdown drive was huge
because it answered the one Bucks touchdown drive of the day,
and then the defense took over. But it does feel like,
if you wanted to be critical, took big picture. We're
seven games into this season. I think Goff's best season
in the NFL was twenty twenty three, right, you know,
(18:41):
when they got that close, that was the best their
offense ever looked. I think that was the best golf
ever looked. Gough was still really good last year, but
he was not as good as the year before. There
were more down moments, you know, he was still a
top ten quarterback excellent, but not as excellent. And then
I would say, so far this year, on balance, I
think he's taken another, you know, little step down. And
(19:05):
I'm trying to be careful how I say it, because
I still if you're ranking him, I don't know where
you have him in the QB Index. He's still somewhere
in the top ten to twelve. But I just I
just I just think their passing game production and golf
in particular, it's just like a slow it's a slow decline.
Can I Can I say that Lions fans that a
lot loud or you gotta just get crazy on me.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
No, you're fine with that. And we have three examples
that would justify that would be weak one against Green Bay,
last week, against Kansas City and today and they all
have similar themes, and that three defenses that know how
to get after the passer in a variety of different fashions.
You know, Jeff Hathley, Steves Bagnolo, and then Todd Bowles
dialing up tonight, Like the reason that he was uncomfortable
(19:47):
for a lot of the night is Todd Bowles did
a great job of scheming up blitzz at the right time,
Like he's sending you know, safeties and defensive backs from
sides where Goff never sees it coming, that sort of thing,
and it's working. And that's something that they're gonna have
to adjust to. And I think with this offensive line
having two new guys at starting positions, including a rookie
and Tate Ratledice, like you're going to get better at
that over time, but it's not going to happen overnight.
(20:07):
You're going to need the reps experience and also the
examples to show on tape to your guys, Hey, this
is what this is possible against this team or what
we faced already. How can we correct that and improve
and adjust to that so they can get better over
the course of the season. And I think that will
help GoF Golf is one of those quarterbacks though then
we know this that you have to block well for
him to really succeed and use his arm, talent everything else.
If you don't do that, and really you got to
(20:28):
build out of the running game, which tonight it worked,
but it didn't really carry over to the passing game.
In most cases, against most opponents, if you build out
of the running game, it will work because you'll balance
out the offense enough keep the defense on their toes.
They're not going to be able to anticipate and dial
up blitzes and just pin their ears back and come
after you. But in games like this, especially earlier in
the season, they're just gonna struggle. They're going to struggle
with adapting. So I think you're going to see this
(20:49):
unit get better in the back half of the season,
and Golf will probably play better. But he is a
guy that very much needs an ideal situation that starts
with the offensive line in order to reach his maximum potential.
Can just admit, now, I mean you lost, you know,
your starting center who is like a pillar of your
franchise in Frank Ragnow you're not going to be as
good and that's fine and.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
They and they might improve throughout the course of the season.
Shout out to Jonesy who says, y'all dedicated. Respect. I
mean it's late here, but it's one fifty two for Shook.
I love the energy that that he is bringing. And
the golf thing makes me think sometimes the team that
actually does get over the hump. This happens sometimes with
Patriots teams. What happened with with Colts team. It's happened
(21:30):
with you know, like the Aaron Rodgers team that broke
through and won the Super Bowl. Like sometimes it's the
teams that you don't see coming the whole time. And
to me, my biggest takeaway from tonight, and that's why
I started the show, and really from the beginning of
this season in the NFC, especially the NFC North is
I think the line's upgraded at defensive coordinator. I'm test
(21:50):
driving this take. I agreed, and I think I think
this defense really has a chance because when they get healthier,
they got Ali McNeil back. We should have mentioned that
Fat snaps tonight. He was walking back those Tampa guards
on some plays. He had a pass deflection. He made
a real impact. Al KaDee Muhammad had eight pressures.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
In this game, continues to play well.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
I just think they might have something there if they
can just get healthier on the back end, and they
should that they'll be a more complete team than the
one that made it to the NFC Championship Game two
years ago, and then certainly the one that just got
decimated by injuries. And they they're just I love this
Lion's team and I love that they're in the center
(22:34):
of the NFL. There's a question, you know, from one
of the viewers right now, who's better right now? Packers
are Lions. I'll let you answer, sir.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I don't think the Packers have put together one complete
game this year, and Matt Lafour kind of alluded to
that today when being asked about Aaron Rodgers of all things,
and their upcoming game against the Steelers, and I think
he was accurate in that they've had flashes. I think
Jordan Love hasn't put together a complete game yet, even
the forty to forty tigh Their defense, you know, was
a problem in that game. Their potential is maybe higher.
(23:02):
We have less evidence to justify that, but the Lions.
If I had to trust either team right now, I'm
trusting the Lions for the reasons that Greg just laid out,
Like Kelvin Shepperd's doing a fantastic job as a first
year defensive coordator. I wanted a joke like, so are
you saying he's like the twenty twenty six head coach
of the Tennessee Titans. At this rate may often that
they lose their coordinators. So if I trust what if
(23:24):
I trust either of these teams? The Lions right now.
Packers may have the higher ceiling, but they haven't proven
it yet.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Shepherd does give a little Robert salivibes in just.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
The little bit of I figured up on the sideline
getting in there with his guys mixing it up.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
You can just see owners seeing him on the sidelines
and he's jacked and he's fired up. So that reminds
me of Salad, just being like I want that guy.
That's a football guy.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
And better phrasing no all gas, no breaks thing. Whenever
he takes a job, please.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Right, and he's and he really is awesome. I definitely
trust the Lions more at this point. I mean, the
Packers could be great, but overall, there's another team where
we're just about to talk about in Seattle that's I
think been as good or better than both of those teams.
And the difference that the Lions have over the Packers is, Man,
(24:15):
you've got the culture tonight. Tonight was a culture. You're
able to coach up and bring in guys. Some of
them have been on the practice squad, some of them
are off the street, and you're able to put them
out there. And I love what they said to Troy
and Joe that, Like they told their players like this
isn't just for us tonight, this is for you to
(24:36):
show the rest of the NFL and make a career
like no one's ever heard of you. And they went
out and did that. That's badass. Like Packers put together
wins like that for a few years, and I would
trust you more. And I to just close the circle
here on this Lions team. Second half of their schedule,
you know, they got Minnesota at Washington and then they
(24:58):
have a game against the Eagles, they have a game
against the Packers again, they have an at Rams. There's
just gonna be so many days that the Packers, I
mean in the Lions, but especially the Lions are just
right there in the center of the NFL. And I
know they didn't look great last week, and they got
to get through their game next week before they get
(25:18):
to their Bible. I think they've managed their schedule really
well too, after that first loss to get here at
five and two, and they're set up really well. All right,
Let's talk about another team that is set up extraordinarily
well that I think is played about as well as
any team in the NFL this year, although they just
(25:41):
play with their food like a little too much and
strung out our Monday night so that we're gonna be
honking late into the night. Let's go to Seattle.
Speaker 5 (25:50):
First and ten inside the fifteen looks throws flyers to
the NZEL.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
Palls.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Up.
Speaker 5 (25:59):
Let's talk over the bar is Jackson Smith and Jacoba
and flags go down because you can't do that because
he grabbed the bar and that can make the whole
goal post wiggle and get out of alignment, but the
touchdown stands the fourth touchdown of the year for JSN
(26:19):
from eleven yards out.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
It was a journey that that call, and yes, it's
it's been a journey for Jackson Smith and Jigba to
go from the supposedly safe solid wide receiver draft pick
taken in the middle of the first round to a
guy on Monday Night Football that I think said to America,
I have been the best wide receiver in the NFL
(26:44):
this year. That got them to a fourteen nothing lead, shook,
and they should have won by so much more than
twenty seven to nineteen. But you gotta give the Texans
defense a lot of credit. I think we saw four
really good defenses tonight. The Bucks defense played great too. Ultimately,
the Seahawks offense did enough to win twenty seven to nineteen.
(27:08):
And yeah, what the heck, Let's start with Jackson Smith
in Jigba, because he finishes tonight not only with that touchdown,
but with eight catches one hundred and twenty three yards,
and no one's played better than him this year, and
he's playing the best secondary in the league, and he
is getting wide open and making just terrific hands catch
every type of catch you would want to see. What
(27:30):
do you love when you're watching JSN do work? Well?
Speaker 2 (27:33):
I actually just went and checked the stats real quick
because I don't routinely check the leaders week by week.
So those of you who think I just scanned the
stats for QB in Dex, you're wrong. I wasn't even
aware that Jackson Smith and Jiggle was leading the league
in receiving. But I'm aware now, and I'm aware after
the performance that he had tonight. It's no surprise to me.
He has been Sam Darnold's favorite target. They have produced
touchdown connections like that one multiple times. That Buccaneers shoot
(27:56):
out a few weeks ago, you saw that happen. It
happened again to night, big stones throw from Sam Donald
fitting down the scene there to find Jackson Smith and Jig.
But he can trust him because Smith and jigbu came
to the NFL with a complete route tree, with plenty
of experience gained and plenty of opportunity playing alongside the
likes of Garrett Wilson and Chris Olave and Marvin Harrison
Junior at Ohio State. He was ready, and yes he
(28:17):
didn't get going right away when he was sharing the
receiving room with dk Metcalf. But guess what, you know
why the Seahawks trade Dk Metcalf because they knew what
they had in JSN and now he's proven it in
his first year without him, and Sam Donald loves him.
I know I could sit here and talk about him
for days. But what I really love about this team
more than anything is the courage that they had to
(28:38):
deviate from the roadmap that most people thought was laid
for them with Geno Smith, with the old regime that
they had. They get Mike McDonald in there in the
first year. He makes an offensive coordinator change. He goes
to Clint Kubiak and they decide, you know what, blow
it up. Let's get the quarterback that fits our offense best.
Let's take the swing and the big risk on Sam Donald,
and it is paying off. He is a her if
(29:00):
it's fit for how they want to run their offense,
not just JSN, but also how they like to build
out of the run, how they like to have the
quarterback with his back to the line of scrimmage. Darnold's
owning it. And yes they only won by eight points tonight,
but the offense is potential and their production continues to
be visible on a week by week basis. It's just
that they ran into a defense that managed to keep
the Texans in the game when they didn't deserve to
be in the game, and they get another win that
(29:22):
they deserve. Seahawks are one of my favorite teams watching
in the NFL right now, and it's for reasons like that.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
I totally agree. And if these teams that are surprisingly
dominant so far this year, Seattle entered this game number
one in Dvoa. I don't know if the Colts you know,
pass them after this week potentially, but they're the number
one offense. The thing I love about surprise teams like
this is, Okay, you get to this point in the
(29:48):
season and you're like, these teams are going to be around.
They're going to be a big part of this season.
And they're now elevated to if the Seahawks are in
prime them, if the Colts are in prime them, although
they're not much, they'll be in some big four to
twenty five spots because they're playing so well now that
feels like a big game, and can they start passing
these new tests and the Texans are not a complete
(30:11):
team they're a mess on offense, but this was a
test for the Seahawks offense, and I think they you know,
I give them a B minus C plus in terms
of their offense, but they turned the ball over four times,
like we can't go too crazy about them in this game.
But they also were facing an incredible Texans defense. And
(30:33):
it's a reminder like all these teams that are built
around defenses like you better have at the very least
like an explosive offense to complement it. The Broncos, I
know they're five and two, but they really don't. The
Vikings certainly don't, the Browns obviously don't, the Texans obviously don't.
(30:58):
So a lot of these defense first teams don't have
the type of playmaker that JSN And yes, Sam Donald is,
and you're right, I'll wear it. I can't remember being
more wrong about a take. I was very confident in
than the move from Gino to Donald being a downgrade.
(31:21):
And I'm glad you brought up the scheme because he
does fit this scheme really well. And he's taken everything
that Kevin O'Connell taught him in Minnesota and everything that
he learned there, and I think you have to give
him more of the credit because he's taken it to
another level that some of the throws he made tonight
early in the game, I know, he made a couple
of mistakes late were awesome. You don't need him to
(31:44):
be perfect, kind of like Daniel Jones doesn't need to
be perfect. You just need him to make enough difference
making plays. And these are not easy completions that Donald's
pulling off.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Yeah, but what really warms my heart watching Donald succeed
with the Seahawks this year is you go all the
way back to his days at USC and I think
about that Rose Bowl performance against Penn State, and that
was like his breakout game in college, and he made
some spectacular throws in that game. I mean, it's a
memorable one for USC fans, whether you're a Sam Donald
Finn or not. And we didn't really get to see
that in his NFL career until moments last year. But
(32:16):
he was throwing to Justin Jefferson and Jordan Edison, he
was playing behind a rock solid offensive line, they had
a good running game. You could, you know, blame it
on all those other things and not give him the
credit he's earning the credit now like he that touchdown
pass to JSM was one, but he also dropped one
perfectly in the bucket to him down the sideline later.
He makes these throws routinely from week to week. He's
making throws like this. This is the talent that always
(32:39):
existed in Sam Donald that he needed the right situation
for it to fully show. And it makes them such
an enjoyable watch, like I said, and it also just
makes me happy that somebody who has been around the
NFL for a while now was at some very low
points in New York and Carolina, was a backup in
San Francisco, only got the job in Minnesota because Jays
(33:00):
McCarthy got hurt. Is now finally getting a real opportunity,
the real faith from an organization and coming through. And yes,
I know he made some mistakes. He fumbled in the
end zone, he threw a pick down the middle that
it was a great play by Derek Stingley. They turned
the ball over four times. I don't care because he's
still making the plays and propelling this team forward. And
combined with the defense that Mike McDonald's overseeing, they lack
(33:21):
consistency in the run game, They're still one of the
most consistent in one of the teams that I believe
in the most through seven weeks now, and I've been
on this train for about a month now because I
don't think they're going away anytime soon. In a lot
of it's because of Sam Darnold.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
A lot of it, it's Sam Donald supported, it's Donald,
it's the system, It's Jackson Smith and Jigba, who I
think is just so subtle, such a good route runner,
just is so complete and is more talented than people realize.
It's a really good tackle combination in the running game
and in the passing game helping him out, although you know,
(33:54):
the running game has been a little inconsistent, and more
than anything, it's the defense supporting it at all, Like
this is a top five defense. I expected it to
be and it absolutely is, and we saw it tonight.
Before we get to that, though, you know, you mentioned
that great throw the whole shot to jsn Overamari Lassiter
in this game, and he also had a throw to
(34:15):
Cooper Cup in the first half where what I loved was,
what's he's done really well this year? Just the subtle
pocket movement to like move to his left because the
Texans pass rushers did win quite a bit tonight, and
they they pressure him almost right away and he shuffles
up into his left It's not an easy throw to make,
and he just does it very naturally before hitting Cup
(34:37):
down the field for a throw. There was a throw
in the red zone early where he gets it to
Elijah Arroyo, and Aikman pointed this out. I was thinking
the same thing too, where he gets to like his
third read so fast, and that's what he's doing. He's
generally processing really quickly. Now, there were exceptions on this,
you know day, and that one of the exceptions was
the sack he took in the end zone. Yeah, let's
(35:00):
give some love to the Texans defense and Will Anderson.
Let's take a listen.
Speaker 6 (35:06):
Donald and the gun calling for the ball.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Here's the snap.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Donald at the goal line.
Speaker 6 (35:09):
Pumping Donald in trouble and Will Anderson has him down.
The ball is out and Will Anderson has it for
a touchdown.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
Pill Sten scores the terminator. That was midway through the
third quarter. It was seventeen to six at the time.
That was Mark Vandermere on Kilt and this game just
felt like it should have been over so to go
over it there. Okay, the Texans defense scores a touchdown
(35:37):
way before the Texans offense scores a touchdown. The Seahawks
are going in for points in the first half, and
they let Cooper Cup throw a pass. Cooper Cup is
now zero for five as a quarterback shookie in his
career with one interception. I don't think they should continue that.
And you know, then they played pretty well for the
(36:00):
most part on offense otherwise in the game. But then
in the fourth quarter, yeah, had another interception with about
like five or five, you know, eight minutes to go,
rather that Stingley play that you mentioned, and so they
just kept like giving the ball away. There was another
fumble in there mixed in that I'm forgetting off the
top of my head, but it was just like they kept,
(36:22):
you know, just shooting themselves in the foot on a
night where they almost had like a safety in the
first half that should have been called, and they almost
had a defensive touchdown until they fumbled the ball. That
was the other one that I was thinking of, like
where they fumbled the ball going in for a defensive touchdown.
So like this game could have been like forty one
to nine in another world.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Yeah, it was a catch fumbled by Elijah Royo that
was recovered by as He's al Shire. But yeah, that's
what made the fourth quarter so painful. And maybe this
is the natural like transition point talking about the Texans
and how disgusted I am with them because oh my god,
they forced four turnovers. You gave your offense so many
opportunities an offense mind you that put you behind the
(37:06):
eight ball multiple times in the first half by turning
the ball over on downs in plus territory for the Seahawks,
Like you're you're asking your defense to carry the entire
organization on its back on the road in Seattle, and
they're doing it. They're largely doing it throughout this game.
And you get down to the one yard line and
you can't punch it in. And I would not be shocked.
(37:26):
I'm not a fan of people losing their jobs, but
I would not be shocked if they made a change
of offensive coordinator because the way that they handled the
gold to go situation in the fourth quarter, the way
that they needed a heroic throw from c. J. Stroud
to Woody Marks to even get in the end zone
in the fourth quarter later which at that point, you're like, God,
I wish they would have converted the first and goal
from the one situation, but they didn't. And the way
that they handled fourth and short earlier in the game
(37:49):
by going away from CJ. Stroud and when Nico Collins
was out on the field at that time before he
left the game, by pounding it into a brick wall
twice with an offensive line that we've known is bad,
that you've had it proven to you multiple times over
last year, and the first part of this season is bad.
It is indefensible, It is disgusting. It is criminal to
allow a team with a defense this good, that is
(38:10):
that opportunistic, to not cash in basically at all in
a game that is very winnable solely because of your defense.
It drives me insane.
Speaker 4 (38:18):
The thing that kills me is they're coming off the
bye week, and I know it's a tough matchup coming
off of bye to go to Seattle, but your offensive
coordinator had two weeks to prepare for this, Nick Cayley.
They were trying to build off some positivity they had
in the last five quarters before the bye, and they
(38:39):
got their pants pulled down, like right away, there's just
free rushers all over the place. Right away, they're throwing
screen passes to Nick Chubb and it's going nowhere, like
right away, even when CJ. Stroud would make a nice
play in the pocket, Nico Collins of all people, is
dropping a good pass that could have gone for a
(39:01):
long play. Nick Chubb dropped a pass Niko cons unfortunately
left late in the game to have a concussion check.
So that's concerning for them. But the coaching was so brutal,
and you mentioned this short yardage situation late in the game.
They only scored a touchdown in this game because they
got fourteen drives, Nick, I mean that is a preposterous
(39:24):
number of drives, including what eight in the second half.
So it just took their defense getting the ball back
to them over and over and over again, and finally
they barely got one in in what wasn't quite garbage time,
but it was two minutes left when they scored, and
it was basically over then. And that wasn't even the
(39:44):
beginning of the short yard of struggles. They had a
drive stop in the first half because they couldn't get
a third and one, and then earlier in the I
think it was the third quarter, they go back to
back trying to pick up one yard. In the broadcast,
boot is just praying and they're telling them, don't just
run it. Don't just run the same running play again.
(40:06):
They're loading up the left side. They got seven blockers
for eight defenders, and what do they do, Shuki, let's
take a listen.
Speaker 6 (40:14):
Fourth down and a yard hand off for the left side,
and he's not gonna make it. He's gonna lose yardage
inside the forty yard line. It blows up and the
Texans on third and fourth and short can't get there
and move the sticks, so they turn it over on down.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
You're the emphasis in that call that can't get there.
It's like almost guttural. That's frustration coming out because they've
watched this offense week week and you know that they
just can't. And it boggles the mind that you would
think that, oh, just because the short yard situation, we're
gonna default. They handing it off. They did this in
the goal line later too, where you're like, you're a
yard away QB sneak. I don't care how much you
(40:52):
value your quarterbacks South and I understand he is absolutely
essential to your hopes of being a competitive offense, but
you're obviously not supporting him. In any other situation, you
have one yard to get, shorten the distance between you
and the line to gain. Please just make it simple,
because right now it was miserable. I tweeted during the
fourth quarter. I was like the misery I'm feeling. I
have no dog in this fight. I can't imagine how
(41:15):
Texans feel. Texans fans feel watching this offense. It's terrible.
Speaker 4 (41:20):
They had a twenty percent success rate, by the way
on design run, so as bad as the passing game is, like,
I get why they go so pass heavy because the
running game just feels stillborn. It's it's brutal. The offensive
line strategy, which I was trying to give them the
benefit of the doubt of the in the off season
(41:41):
in Toronto Airsrie the rookie is really struggling. It's tough.
But when you watch those plays, one thing that you
see shook and you saw this on the near safety
of CJ. Stroud on what was that their first drive
of the game. Actually where he's running backwards, there's four
Seahawks converging on him. Yep, there's like no Texans blockers
(42:05):
in the field. And that's My takeaway if you haven't
watched the Seahawks defense enough. Look, the Bucks got him.
That'll happen to great defenses. Sometimes they had a bad day.
But what really gets me is just the depth. There's
just so many different types of players. DeMarcus Lawrence had
a big game. He's great boy. Mafey is a terror
(42:26):
off the edge. Byron Murphy like blowing up screens is
a very athletic defensive tackle. You know, they're still missing guys.
Devin Witherspoon wasn't out there tonight. Julian Love in the
back end wasn't out there tonight. Like they just have
different levels to Ernest Jones has been great at linebacker,
Like I haven't mentioned nu Chenna Nuosu, who's one of
(42:46):
their They just on any given play, two guys, three
guys can win. And what a great way to play
team defense.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Plus there's the potential of rookie safety nick Emon Worri,
who's starting to come around and starting to make some plays.
He looked a little loss in the first month of
this season, but I think he's starting to get his
fee underneath him. He made some plays tonight as well,
and like there was a play where Leonard Williams drops
in coverage and they throw a check down to I
think it was Braxton Burials they had lined up back there.
He chases him down in the flat look. I know
(43:13):
Leonard Williams is a freak athlete, he has been since
his days at USC, But to watch a guy of
that size move with that quickness and he was so
light on his feet laterally and make a play like that,
it was still blew my mind. And I know he's
got that potential and has had it for years. That's
the strength of their defense, and it's not when I
complained about the Texans offense. It has nothing to do
with how I feel about the Seahawks defense, because again,
(43:34):
both things canna be treat You can have terrible offensive
strategy and also be playing against a good defense. This
defense is just getting better by the week, and they're
another big reason why I think, again, the Seahawks team
is not going anywhere. They're going to be hanging around.
They're going to be a player in the NFC all
year long.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
Yep. They had six different Seahawks with run stuffs in
this game, So that's like stopped at or behind the
line of scrimmage. Like I was trying to say, it's
just it's a read the wealth type of defense. It's impressive.
They're number one in DVOA. You know, I don't know
what power rankings is supposed to judge. You know, Are
(44:10):
they the most likely team to make the Super Bowl?
Speaker 2 (44:13):
No?
Speaker 4 (44:13):
Because the NFC is so deep, I think on balanced.
If I had to choose a team that's played the best,
most complete brand of ball through seven weeks in the NFC,
my choice would be the Seahawks. Now they're in a
really tough division. They're tied three way tie with the
forty nine ers in the Rams at five and two.
(44:35):
It's obviously a really good conference with other contenders, two
of whom played tonight, and you have the defending champs.
It's wide open, but they're in that mix and hopefully
that can be some solace to Seahawks fans on a
night that will go down and Seattle sports infamy, really
(44:57):
and it'll always be this footnote that the Seahawks played
last night. If you were watching the Monday night football broadcast,
it was crazy to see the crowd shots of all
the Mariners fans that were at the Seahawks game and
just the heartbreak kind of wash over them as they
(45:18):
realized what happened in the ALCS. If you're no overseas
listeners and have no idea what we're talking about. The Seahawks,
you know, played tonight at the same time as the
Seattle Mariners, who lost Game seven, trying to make the
World Series for the first time in their franchise history,
and they gave up a three run homer in the
seventh and ended up losing a great baseball game.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Yeah, four to three. And look, as somebody who grew
up in Northeast Ohio and lives in Cleveland, I understand
the torture of watching your team lose on the doorstep
of the World Series. I understand the torture of watching
your team below a three one leading the World Series.
But Seahawks fans, Mariners fans, you're a loyal bunch. You
got a big win on the NFL field tonight. I
know it doesn't matter as much Game seven of the
(46:00):
LCS did, but you're you're a good group. You'll be
back next year, hopefully for the Mariners.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
You do feel for like real deal fans because just
one of those things I watched they've been I've been
around for a while, they've never got there. And I
think if the Lions lost, which they did in the
NFC Championship, it it's a lot like that loss. You
had a big lead, you're so close, and they have
(46:28):
the idea that if they can just make it once
even that might be enough. That would be one great
thing to celebrate, and you can't even have that.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
I watched the Cleveland Guardians get eliminated at home in
the playoffs in person each of the last two years.
And I also have one triumph in my life as
a sports fan. It was when the Cavaliers came back
from three to three to one in twenty sixteen. I
understand you're paying guys.
Speaker 4 (46:49):
I do you have to watch Troy O'Leary bash like
eight RBIs in a game five Cleveland Red Sox in
like two thousand and two.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
That maybe you do that to me when I was
a kid. Why would you do that?
Speaker 4 (47:01):
Sorry? Sorry? That was at the time one of my
favorite memories. Pour one out for uh, you know, the
big dumper in the Great Mariner season. Okay, I want
to bring up something crazy, which is that our great
producer Chris Babona put a pole up of everyone crazy
(47:21):
enough to be watching. If you're on the East coast,
it's two eighteen. Good job by you, shucky, and we'll
let you go to sleep. We put a pole up.
Who would you start your team with at wide receiver? Now?
I said that JSN has been the best wide receiver
in the league so far this season. The fact that
(47:43):
more people voted for him over Jamar Chase and Justin
Jefferson to start a team with is absolutely outrageous and
the biggest example of recency bias I've ever seen. Or
maybe you know it's just Seahawks fans.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
Yeah, because what is it? Eleven eighteen and Pacific time zone,
so we get more Seahawks fans in here. That's what's
going on. You guys are nuts. I would definitely play
Jamar Chase over him, but he's having a great year.
You got your game, recognize his game.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
I think if I was starting a franchise, he is
definitely in the top five now among receivers. The thing
is to be a great like Chase and Jefferson is,
and they're having great seasons by the way, too. You
have to do it year after year. Those guys are
first ballot Hall of Famers in the middle of their primes,
(48:35):
and so you just got to see it more for Jason.
But if he stays at this level for two more years, sure, yeah,
he's gonna be right there. We will be right back
on this show sooner than you can even imagine. Colleen
Wolf and I will be in the studio really looking
forward to that on Tuesday. And in the meantime, we
(48:58):
appreciate everyone who's stayed up with us, and everyone just
can say goodbye to double headers, Nick Schuk, maybe forever
it could be, this could be it?
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Are you?
Speaker 4 (49:06):
How will you celebrate the end of double headers in
the NFL.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
By watching one more game from this week and going
to bed? And I actually understand why they're going away. Tonight.
I think is the perfect example of why they're going away.
Speaker 4 (49:21):
Yeah, that that was a tough game to end on.
If it is over and they say it's gonna be over,
if the Endful Network ESPN deal goes through, all right,
that's too much. We'll we'll go uh, we'll go into
the night, and we will see you on Tuesday.
Host
Gregg Rosenthal
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