December 20, 2022 • 43 mins
Gregg Rosenthal and Bill Barnwell recap the Rams-Packers Monday Night Football matchup. Then, Gregg and Bill go through their 6 most improved players of the 2022 NFL season.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Bayfield is not goes Bayfield duck out wait action, I'm
the pressure by Freeld falls out, Bayfield kieks and down
it goes pressure and Preston Smith gets the Baker Mayfield
(00:21):
Another sound that were the five sacks recorded by the
Green Bay Packers against the Los Angeles Rams in twelve
Monday Night football victory. I'm Greg Rosenthal. I'm joined by
Bill Barnwell, and I'm also joined by our producer, Justin Graver,
who decided with that highlight reel to just like get creative.
(00:44):
That was his artistic rendering of this game, just going
with back sax On Baker. Do you not like Baker Mayfield,
Justin or something? No? I like Baker Mayfield. I love
Baker in Los Angeles. I just felt like I kept
looking up at the TV and he was getting sacked
in every week. I feel like it's just like a
touchdown montage, and I was getting bored of just always
doing a basic touchdown montage. So I like it. We
(01:06):
are fifteen weeks and we're getting art house, we're getting creative,
and uh, we're gonna talk about the most improved players
in the league later in the show bill. But I'm
so happy to have you here, and I'm so happy
that you can break down this game with me. And
I'm expecting like unbelievable analysis out of you tonight, But
you chose the wrong person, unfortunately. I was thinking, to
(01:29):
be honest with you. I know I'm biased, I work
for ESPN, but Joe Buck does a really good job
of building up the tension on sacks like I can
picture I can picture the pass rush closing in on
Baker Mayfield as his voice gets more and more excited.
He's really good at that. I didn't realize that until
I hurt this this clip here, So thank you justin
(01:50):
for that. And you're hitting on a point I was
thinking about tonight, which is Joe Buck does seem to
be leaning into making the game as exciting as possible. Well,
maybe it's because Packers Rams isn't the big time game
that we thought it was going to be before the season.
You know, this is a game network has probably fought over.
This was for sure, maybe the number one game on
(02:11):
the Monday and at football schedule going into this season.
Obviously not as much at stake as we expect and
not anywhere close. And so yeah, he's trying to make
it feel like a big event, and he did a
good job of it. Baker Mayfield's inclusion made it more
interesting coming into the game. Did it make it more
interesting for you, Bill during the game? No, because weirdly,
(02:35):
I think Baker Mayfield gets worse as he learns more
about his team and his playbook. You know, I I
look at what happened in that game last week, the
Thursday night game against the Raiders, which was you know,
every week feels like there's either a traumatic thing happening
to the Raiders or a a glorious season saving event
(02:56):
happening to the Raiders. Um given their losses now are
they're there and their loss in back to back weeks
in the final moments of the whole season, Bill, someone
needs to write a great oral history about this Raiders season.
If you go through it one by one, almost every
game is completely bananas. But that but that's beside the
point tonight. You're right with with the Packers and the Rams, though,
(03:18):
it felt like Baker growing more confident in the offense
gave him more pause. It felt like he was not
as confident ripping the football, and I felt like a
lot of this offense was just basically boot and him
checking it down to the underneath guy on boot and
that's there's nothing wrong at that, but it's gonna be
really hard to get the ball down the field for
(03:40):
you know, a a eighty or ninety yard touchdown drive,
doing that over and over again without a sack or
a penalty or a turnover. And we saw that happen
over and over again to the Rams in this game. Yeah,
they could not protect Baker for long he held onto
the ball. They end up with only a hundred and
fifty six yards of offense three points x yards for play,
(04:01):
and yet I for stretches. I was like, you know what,
he's ripping it. Okay, when he actually sets up and
has a target to throw to, they hit on two,
third and very long is the third and fifteen and
a third and thirteen came Makers runs, but the Rams
field beside the point. Ultimately, this is a game about
the Packers, and I was curious coming into it considering
(04:22):
the Packers remaining schedule. It's challenging, it's at Miami next week,
it's the Lions, and the Vikings said, let's we'll talk
about their playoff potential in a second. But the reason
I was curious about this game. Was I kind of
have an idea that their offense has mostly solved their
issues and it's actually a really good offense right now.
And I wanted to see if that UM opinion was confirmed,
(04:44):
and it was. They only had nine drive For me,
it was confirmed twenty seven first downs. They would have
had thirty one points if they got another couple of
yards right at the end. Uh. What do you think
about the Packers offense right now? I think they're finding
solutions that work, you know. I think they have a
little more faith in the rookie wide receivers now. And
(05:05):
I think they've gotten better, certainly with Christian Watson. And
and Doom's not coming back from his he had a
high ankle sprain, right, I mean, I'm not mistaken there
in terms of injuries. Yeah, and he was five for
fifty five tonight. Yeah, and he looked good. And Christian Watson,
of course very notably not turned around and what could
have been a a game ceiling touchdown in the final
(05:25):
couple of minutes. UM. But you know, I felt like
they were running the ball effectively. I felt like they were,
you know, making generally good decisions with the football. The
one exception was the interception on what looked to be
a bit of miscommunication between Rogers and Alan Lazard. But
this kind of felt like the old Packers, you know.
It felt like a game they dominated from start to finish.
(05:47):
It felt like a game where they were in control
on both sides of the ball, and it felt like, honestly,
the only thing missing were the shot plays, because there
were plenty of times in this game where they went
play action. Aaron Rodgers took a seven step drop and
he had all the time in the world to throw
and nobody was open. I think that's the one notable
difference between like your Packers and even this impressive, frankly
(06:12):
version of what we saw from the Packers today. That's
a good point. It was twenty degrees out there, which
we should mention. I mean, that's exceptionally. Can we talk
about the all time reverse jinxing happening during the game
when they kept they kept mentioning, that's not about how
that there only been two kicks of fifty plus yards
(06:34):
and in sub twinty degree with either Macie comes out
and is hitting a fifty five yarder, and honestly, it
would have been good for from about sixty three or
sixty four. Just an incredible kick. It was an amazing
kick and gave missed that extra point later. It's first
of the year. Yeah. They also jinx that the Rams
hadn't had a touchdown to a tight end all season,
(06:54):
literally one play before Tyler Higbee wrapped up the scoring
with a late third quarter touch down. So yeah, that
a lot of jinx is around. But you could see
on the kickoffs, especially it's degree so when people are
getting on Baker Mayfield for a deep shot to two
two out, well late in the game, hanging up there.
I think you have to count the weather here as
(07:16):
a factor. I don't know what it all means, but
I know those balls are are not the same as
they normally would be. It was much colder even than
it was in Buffalo the other night, So I think
that's that's part of it. And I look at this
Packers offense and I think, like the offense could be
good enough to win these last three games and see
if they can get a tiebreaker. I I don't know
(07:38):
if the defense is, but I've thought all season that
the Packers should be, let's say right now, like an
eight and six team. That's really what they profile more
as if you if you look at their d v
o A, their offense throughout the season has been close
to top ten, if not top ten since weeks seven
is a long sample size. I picked that just because
that's eight games going to tonight there they were eighth
(08:01):
in the league. That will only go up, like they
get first downs. Jones and Dylan, they're one of the
best combos in the league. And Dylan left with a
potential concussion, which which would be a big injury going
into this Miami game. But seeing Dobbs, Watson and Lazard
on the field all at the same time, it was nice.
And I think Rogers is for the most part throwing
(08:21):
the ball well, and he's playing great against the Blitz.
They tried to blitz him tonight. He went ten for
twelve for ninety three yards against it. He's been great
against the Blitz all year. Like it's a good offense.
Like people have gotten so hard on the Packers because
they're not like a top three offense. It's a good offense. Okay,
it's a fine offense. I I think it's it's not
a problematic offense. But the thing that made this offense
(08:45):
work over the past few years is that they never
ever turned the football over. They had thirteen giveaways all season.
They had a liven all year in twenty all season
in one. They had to tonight, if I'm not mistaken, Yeah,
(09:07):
they had to tonight. That's nineteen already for this season
with three games to go. And I think when you
look at what happened with them in the past, Rogers
was cooking, he was playing much better. They had Davante Adams,
but they also never turned the ball over and at
least they were the best red zone offense in the
history of the National Football League. And I think they
(09:30):
sort of have to adapt because they play a very slow,
methodical style. They don't get a lot of possessions per
game by design, they don't play very fast, and I
think that might be something that they would consider adjusting,
um given the style they're playing, given that they do
need to get a couple of extra drives per game
to score points. But I think at the end of
(09:52):
the day, like they're the part of this team I
have more faith in relative to the defense. Right, those
are all really good points. I like it when Bill
just like slaps me down to size like, they're good,
They're fine. You're absolutely right if you would to put
a number on it, ignored the stats, just in a vacuum.
(10:14):
What where do you think they would rank in the NFL?
We were ranking in NFL offenses right this very second,
with their current personnel, they would make my top ten
probably probably right at the end, nine or ten. So
i'd have to go through. They're like twelve or thirteen.
For me, I don't think we're far off here. Okay,
I agree, And part of it is because their offensive
line issues for the most parts, have been solved. Zack
(10:35):
Thomas come in and played well for them, a rookie player,
yosh yosh Nieman has played well, and they've just figured
it out and there and they're playing better. And these
defenses they're playing down the stretch two aren't great. Miami, Detroit, Minnesota.
So I look at those uh that backfield and you
could see it tonight. Not that the Rams are an
amazing defense, but when Dylan is trucking Taylor rap On
(11:00):
on the goal line and just I've always loved Aaron
Jones and seeing him in space, it's just there are
a lot to deal with, and to me, Christian Watson
kind of unlocked this entire uh offense. He yeah, he
had that play at the end where if he had
turned around, he would have changed a lot of fantasy
UH competitions, playoff games tonight. UH. They would have scored
(11:21):
over thirty, they would have hit the over, so a
lot of money would have changed hands. But for the
most part, to me, he's locked, unlocked this offense. I
don't have any faith though, that their defense will play enough,
or play well enough to hold those three teams down
to possibly win three in a row, or more importantly,
just win on Sunday. They are one of the three
Christmas Games. Bill Barnwell, they are the first one. Do
(11:45):
you believe that their defense could could somehow get something
going here? I think what has to happen is they
have to have a good pass rush. And I know, like, yes,
every defense is a good pass rush. This sounds like
it sounds like like stupid criticism pretending to be smart criticism,
or or fake insight pretending to be insight. But I
(12:07):
think they're more dependent on their pass rush than most
other teams in the NFL, and that has been inconsistent
for them this year. You look at this game. Here
they were playing a shall we say, compromised Ram's offensive
line where pretty much everybody is injured. They lost Brian Allen,
their starting center, on the second step, third step of
(12:28):
the game on offense and had to replace him. And
Rob Havnstein is having this weird season where he looks
like he's never played football before and it's just getting
destroyed every single week. He's been terrible. I mean, I
don't want to be mean, but he's been one of
the worst players in the league over the last half season.
And he's the one guy who's supposed to be like
the reliable one. He's the one starter they have left.
(12:50):
The Packers had doing mathe he I think they had
five sacks in this game. To listen to the highlights,
was justin like thin red right there, like he's a
he's gonna submit that for a podcast award. It's gonna
be it's gonna be a con. He did warn me
about it, and I was just like, okay, okay, do
(13:11):
do your thing. Do your thing. Justin I like you,
like he's spread in your wings. Yes, So twenties six
dropbacks for Baker Mayfield, five sacks. They have not been
that good to a pass rush for most of this season,
but I think they have to be that over the
final three weeks of the year. And by the way,
the Dolphins since Toronto and instead got hurt in the
(13:31):
first half of that Texans game. Two has been getting hit.
The Bills actually did the worst job of getting pressure
onto A of any team over the past years. But
the Texans got five sacks on to a in in
the the second half of that game where he got benched.
The Miners beat up to A. The Chargers had plenty
of pressure onto A, and I think the Packers can
(13:52):
do that, but it's not a given or a guarantee
in the way it would have been maybe a couple
of years ago. And my whole thing with this Packers
team is they've been a little better, I think than
the record show their three and five and one score games.
They had a streak of them in the middle of
the season where they just kept losing Giants, Commanders, Lions,
(14:14):
and and maybe they should probably be seven and seven,
they should be eight and six. I'm very intrigued by
that game. I also wanted to ask you about Christmas
games in general. Go ahead, what I want to point out.
Is that kind of the the the the cards this
house was built on for the Packers over the past
(14:36):
three years was winning a lot of those close games.
I felt very stupid for the past couple of years
because every year I've talked about their their record in
games decided by seven points or less and said, well, Okay,
this year, finally they're gonna go back and regress towards
the mean and they're going to be a normal team.
There's no reason why they're good at these games. And
(14:56):
they were good at they were good at it. They
were good one. They were a combined fourteen and six
in those one score games the prior three years. And
I bring that up not to to take a victory lap.
That's not the point, but what I am saying, that's
the point. Let's let's do it. Let's have a parade
(15:17):
for Bill Barnwell, right, and it'd be nice. I would.
I would take it. I would. I would love love
a marching bands. We need more holiday parades. It's like,
I guess we got the Rose parade after January one.
That's like about roses. They should have Christmas parades. They
should have Bill Barnwell. Uh is an excellent writer parades,
(15:37):
like we should nominate one person every year to have
a parade thrown in their honor, Like whoever has the
best preseason predictions, Like if Bill really nails his preseason
teams that are going to regress or or improve, It
makes total sense that you've been on that corner with
the Packers. And and that's a good point that, Uh,
this is a franchise that probably could use some bad
luck after all the good luck they've had. I'm just
(16:00):
saying that I think maybe the bar for what you
would expect them to be maybe shouldn't be as high
as the record was in prior years. Like I think
they've been a a ten and a half eleven win
team in the past few years, which is fine. They're
still very good, but I don't think they've fallen off
quite as much as maybe their record would indicate given
their record in prior years. Yeah, and their defense, to
(16:21):
me all season has been the biggest problems and some
of the traditional stats hasn't haven't said it because they're
the type of defense that just never gets off the field,
that gives up these long drives, these soul crushing drives,
and uh, they haven't shown enough for me to believe
that's gonna be any different. Next week against Miami is
kind of their their final test. But yeah, the guy's
(16:42):
getting sacked tonight. We're like Nabarre. Is that how you
say his name? He's the fifth round rookie outside linebacker
has been playing better lately. I just noticed Justin Hollins
gotta have a sack. He was on the range. Revenge game.
It was a revenge game. Greg, I can't believe you
did not pay attention to that. Uh. Yeah, they invested
so much. And I never like it when teams over
(17:04):
invest in the defense in general, and especially not when
you have a quarterback like Aaron Rodgers. Uh, just think
offense is more consistent. And they put so much into
the defense this year that it needed to be a
top five to tend defense, and it's been below average.
And I don't know. There's something about Aaron Rodgers, I guess.
(17:24):
Even though I don't root for any of his rival
teams and I've always, you know, more or less been
neutral on Aaron Rodgers, are enjoyed the experience. I certainly
love watching him throw the ball. Like I'm still just
kind of afraid of him that they will win these
three games. There's part of me that is a fan
of another team that's like, oh, they're gonna win these games.
No one thinks they're they're gonna win him great. Could
(17:46):
you not see a universe where it's Week eighteen and
it's the Packers, the team that everyone's kind of sick of,
that we know is not that good with the quarterback
who you know has been tiptoeing around retirement for the
last three years, Versus the Lions. Yes, uh, the the team. Everybody,
including the Around the NFL podcast, all love the team
(18:08):
that we've adopted, that we've we've had, We've put our
our boots on the ground for for the past year
waiting to see them rise up. And now this is
their chance to cook it to the postseason. Then Aaron
Rodgers is going to get in the way. I love it, Bill,
give it to me. I mean, look at Bill barton football,
look at Bill Barnwell, loyal to football and loyal to
(18:30):
those Lions. I mean even prompting Justin to play our
little theme song about the Lions. I love it. Give
me that as the Week eighteen game. That's what I need.
I want either that and I've already looked at this.
I'm always obsessed with the Week eighteen thing. Um A, yeah,
there's a lot of options. Practically every game feels like
an option. I want that or Jets Dolphins as a
(18:50):
winning in type of game. Either one of those to
me would be delicious. But Packers Lions feels right. It
feels better, and the Packers are gonna need to uh
win two straight games to set that up. Yeah, or
Titans Jaguars. You can't say Jaguars anymore. We gotta just
say it's Jaguars. J I don't know who who tweeted
(19:14):
about it. I think it was our friend Ben Solac today.
That was just saying that anyone who says Jaguars on
a podcast is immediately suspended, and and I thought to myself, yes,
I've thought that that too. We need to stop these people. Wars. Well,
the British say Jaguars. It is London's team. I'm gonna
go with Jags from now on, so I don't mess
(19:35):
it up. I don't want Jack Titans, what about Ravens Bengals.
This would have been a great top six list. I'm
not even joking. Top six potential Week eight teen games
and just talk about that. Yeah, Ravens Bengals is awesome too.
I don't think we're going to get a bad one
this year. The only way it gets bad is basically
if the only winning in scenario is one of the
(19:55):
Southern divisions and Jaguars Titans would be fine. I'm not
gonna hate that, but the NFC South would be horrible.
I love Jack's Titans because you have Travor turboR. Lawrence
is playing out of his mind right now, and you
have Derrick Henry, who has owned the Jaguars for years now,
even had like a hundred yards in the first half
against them last time out, and then he got shut
(20:16):
down in the second half, and I don't know how
it happened, Like, I think that could be a real shootout.
I I would be on board for Tennessee Jacksonville in
the week game. Okay, I would too. In a normal year,
it's like a seven and a half out of ten.
But with these other games that are possible that just
seem like the Lions, Packers, or Bengals, Ravens or Jets, Dolphins,
(20:38):
those all seem awesome to me. So so that's all.
It's just knowing that there's others out there, you won't
be watching Texans Colts. I mean I'll be watching whatever
it is we got to talk about it. It's the
last game of the year that will not be a
game because that cannot have an elimination scenario. At this point,
I don't think the Colts can get back in this.
Thank the Vikings for that quickly on the rams because
(20:58):
before we get to the most improved list, I don't
know if there's much to say about a cam Akers
had a hundred. Had a hundred yards tonight out of
one six Yeah, yeah, sixty on the ground and thirty
five through the art. Uh yeah, totally yards, but fifteen touches.
I mean for a team that had one fifty six
(21:19):
to have a hundred is impressive. He has show explosion
after a really lost early part of the season. Um,
I think he came back from that injury looking much better.
So to me, the rest of their season is just
seeing who among these players can matter for next year,
including Baker as a potential backup, including Acres in where
(21:41):
he fits in, Guys like Michael Hoyt, who's really looked
great as an edge rusher. So that's a nice find.
Some of the guys in their secondary and that's about it.
They just need to find some players, guys like Leonard
Floyd actually who they'll be making a decision on whether
they want to keep him. Like they can say fifteen
million dollars against the cap, and they're gonna need money.
He's been playing great lately, so he might be auditioning
(22:02):
for for another team. That that's sort of all that
matters for the Rams season at this point. Yeah, I
think sort of cycling through some of their younger players
as well. Like you know, like like the guys in
the secondary, you're Nick Scotcher, Taylor Raps who are coming
up either towards the end of their rookie deals or
the ring positions where you know they're not making a
lot of money and you can replace them, maybe you
draft a guy to replace them, And it's you know,
(22:22):
can you trust those guys to be a part of
a championship caliber defense? Scott was last year, rap really
was not a focal point of that defense. Thinks a
free agent and uh, I would guess he'll be gone
just because I would imagine as well. Yeah, and they
have they have other good players. You're right in the
in the secondary or at least that they want to see,
like like Kobe Durant and yeah, but but Acres is
(22:43):
a good example. I mean, he was almost out of
the organization. If anybody could offer them a swap of
late round picks, I think he'd be on a different
team right now. But he looks the best he's looked
since his achilles injury. He was terrible in the postseason,
almost cost the Rams their super Bowl given how bad
he played, uh and in the final two rounds of
the playoffs last year. But you know, obviously impressively came
(23:05):
back and looks much better now, thankfully. And I think,
you know, for a offense that could really use a
relatively cheap running back to be, you know, the focal
point of their running game, can't makers looks like maybe
he can be that guy if he plays this way
over the rest of the season, right Because something tells
me they're going to be spending money on offensive lineman
and uh I would hope so, but potentially quarterback and
(23:28):
defensive tackles. We don't know who's going to be back
for the Rams. That's for the off season. Let's talk
about a list that I'm excited about I'm so excited
about it, Bill, uh that I'm going to give you
the first draft pick. It's our most improved players. And
if you're a regular listener of the Monday Night Football
Pro podcast, you might think to yourself, wait, didn't Greg
(23:50):
already do most improved Players? Uh? Yeah, I did. I
I just went third person too, and I didn't really
realize it till I was writing down Christian Derri saw
like a few hours before the show is like, this
seems familiar, but it's the end of the season, and
I think most Improved Player should be an award that
is actually given by the NFL because it makes more
(24:13):
sense to me than come back players. So I think
it's good to be circling back right now. And at
least the players I'm throwing out would be legit candidates
for an actual most improved Player awards. So this is
more the end of the season. Bill. You go, first,
how how long ago did you? I don't want to.
I thought about not bringing this up because how many
(24:33):
people would really notice? Not that many? Um, But I
just thought it was funny because I was like, Derris, wait,
this this feels familiar. This is when you know you've
done too many shows. I think it was like six
weeks ago. But I'm doing different players, Bill, I want
to hear, what do you think I think about in
(24:55):
the past. Yeah, but this is this is all embarrassing.
It was Charles McDonald. Okay, I respect Charles's opinion, So
if it was someone I did not respect, I'd say
this is totally different. I mean, this is such a
great award potential. We could do it every week. Let's
just talk about improved players. What's more human than trying
(25:15):
to improve and recognizing that in the holiday season, Bill
being critical. We do that pretty often too, So that's
what it's nice to be. Give me pick, give me
your first pick. Okay, one more thing before I start there. Okay,
I just want to put it out there. I mentioned
this before we started taping. Last time I came on
the show, we had another list where you both came
(25:36):
up with like two or three of the same things.
The over under for the number of players we're going
to name that are identical to me is two and
a half. WHOA. I thought we said it at one
and a half and you were taking it over before
the show, but you just gave away a free number. Okay,
a little different, like I just gave away Derris saw
(25:57):
is not can't be on my list because it was
on it last time. Though it's a slightly different list,
but sure, I'll go with that. We're getting the most
improved by team here. Okay. Number one for me a
guy who was a question to even be starting this
year and a player on America's team, the Detroit Lions,
is jeff A Kuda, a player who was kind of
(26:20):
lost under Matt Patricia, was a mess as a rookie.
Tori's achilles was a question whether he was going to start.
I think, uh a Moni over Warrier was looking really
good like this year, like he was maybe going to
play ahead of a Kuda. A Kuda wins the job
in camp, and he's been really good, you know. I
think the Lions defense admittedly has been pretty iffy. I
(26:40):
don't think Ada has been a super star necessarily, but
he's had a lot of tough assignments and I think
he's battles really well. Had did a really good job
that one week against Justin Jefferson. Not so much in
the rematch, I guess, but you know, when he's been healthy,
he's missed a couple of weeks, but when he's been healthy,
I think he's been an above average starting cornerback, and
I think that's the perfect timing for that for the Lions,
(27:01):
given how little they got from him over his first
couple of seasons in the league. So Accuda number one
on my list. I love that, and I love that
we're doing this list again because it just gives us
a chance to talk about players I never do at
length on this podcast. I think he's a perfect pick
because of where he was in his career, and also
as a representative of the Lions defense, which is the
most improved defense throughout the course of the season since
(27:23):
they're bye week there in d v O A. I
mean that's average. I mean that's better than average. And
I hate to be cliche, but Akuda is the perfect,
uh example of why I like watching the Lions defense.
They just fly around the field, and that's the cliche,
but they play with such great energy and Accuda's physical.
(27:44):
They give him the toughest assignments. Some weeks it goes okay,
you're well and coverage some weeks it doesn't. But he's
a great tackler and he's great and run defense and
he makes plays outside of just being uncoverage and I
think that's typical of this team, uh, of Rodrigo and
the rest of him. So I love okudas the first
pick five point six pass and reading a loud Perfootball
(28:06):
Reference which checks out to me. A cornerback reference stats
are always a little iffy, but I think, you know, again,
not a superstar. There are guys with better numbers, but
I think a solid corner on a team that needs
solid players on the defensive side of the well. And
I hate you never want to see top five picks
wash out, and uh it's always a good reminder to
give them time and see what happens. But that's especially
(28:28):
to you at cornerback. Cornerback is so unpredictable that sometimes
guys who don't seem like they're gonna make it on
their first contract have great careers. I'm going with the
guy that was at a totally different position. There's no
way you wrote them down, Bill barn Well. I'm taking
Juwan Johnson with my pick. Joan Johnson was a wide receiver.
He was I know. I I was taking John Johnson
(28:50):
in Best Ball drafts last year. Think he might be
the new Marques Colston. Okay, so no I picked them
because none of these wide receivers to tight ends. I
shouldn't say nothing. It's pretty rare that it works out.
And so Sean Payton moved him to tight end, and
I didn't see it. He still looked like like a
like a like he was too slow to even play
(29:11):
tight end when he was playing wide receiver. But he
really has improved. I watched enough of the Saints in
the preseason and the regular season when he was on
the field the last couple of years, UH to see
what he's doing this year that he's worked on his
game and he's explosive, he has great hands, he's obviously
good in the red zone. And it's a little crazy
that he scored seven touchdowns, but he has thirty five
catches for four hundred and sixteen yards. UH. And he's reliable.
(29:34):
Like they've found something in him and Rashid Shahi. The
Saints have had the most bizarre season ever. But Juwan
Johnson is a real player. Jowan Johnson is going to
get a nice second contract as a tight end and
he's not even getting to the second contract yet, only
a third year player. And so I love seeing guys
like that who just you had no thought would be
a quality starter become one absolutely. And I think, you know,
(29:57):
the numbers don't sound like they're blowing you away with
you know, thirty five or four, sixteen and seven, But
that's the seventh best fantasy performance from any tight end
in football this year, and it's getting he's five or
six weeks. It's just like the difficulty of the catches
that he makes, Like that's a skill set that should travel.
All right, what's your next pick? My next pick is
(30:20):
I'll give you one that I think was probably on
most people's list, and that's Talnoah Funka, the Niners safety
where I just think not perfect, there's still weeks where
people take advantage of him here and there, but such
a playmaker. He's made them so much better. Um, you know,
he can play different spots on the defense, and I
(30:41):
think play them at a high level. I think he's physical.
I think he is you know it kind of has
that knack of being in the right place at the
right time. That's the skill, even if it might not
necessarily look like a skill, um, you know, on a
given play. But I think that Niners defense the secondary
was the big question mark for them heading into the year,
even after adding to various ward and I think fans
(31:03):
year to your growth was significant enough that he's the
reason to me why they're the best defensive football and
not the fifth or sixth or seventh or eighth best
defensive football. That's that's type praise and and I agree
certainly that he deserves to be on this list. I
don't know if he's the difference, but he is a
(31:24):
great example of a coach and a coaching staff using
a guy's instinctive skill set to their full advantage. And
he's a guy that when he was popping in the preseason,
most people probably looked him up and thought like, oh,
is he a rookie? And no, he's not a rookie.
He just really came out of Noor. I love that.
I'm gonna um pick a player not on your list,
(31:44):
though not on my list. You're not getting your over
over one and half unless you have this man. And
I I could choose between two big name quarterbacks, okay,
and I'm gonna take two a tongue of Violoa and
most improved and instead of Trevor Lawrence, because you know
Trevor it was a rookie quarterback. We we know the
(32:06):
situation there, and he's improved unbelievably during the season. We
talked enough about chart to me, two is a better
choice because he had already played so much in the
NFL and we'd seen him over the last two years,
and before Dolphins fans get in their feelings, I was
higher on two A in general the last two years
then consensus, I would say, because I thought what he
(32:27):
showed in those two years was a skill set that
was better or almost elite in some areas than NFL starters.
And that was in quick game and that was in um,
you know, the way he handles the ball, but also
quick accuracy, and like, that's a skill set that travels.
(32:48):
We've seen enough quarterbacks that never have that, and that
he was almost at an elite level of that right
off the bat. So like, Okay, you can work with
this hopeful, you can build out different parts of his
game and you can build around him, uh, and then
he'll improve more. So I already sort of saw him
that he was gonna be an Alex Smith type UM,
(33:09):
and I don't think that's a derogatory And I thought
that was like the middle point of how his career
would go. And I think you look at this season
and you want to just give all the credit to
Tyree Hill and Jalen Waddle and Mike McDaniel, and I
think that's unfair because I think the timing that he
shows on the deep throws and the confidence that he
(33:30):
plays with a lot of it is just confidence. And
maybe that comes from coaching and how he's been talked
up and and everything that he's worked on, But he
didn't show those things necessarily in this first two years.
And so yeah, it's the situation improving for him. But
I think he's legitimately improved. And even if his arm
isn't big, can it be big enough to be extremely
(33:52):
efficient throwing deep like Drew Brees was throughout his career.
I think he has a chance to do that. I
don't think he's all the way there yet. I don't
think he's an m v P You candidate, and I
never quite saw you was there. But I think there's
a middle ground here where, like you can recognize he
has improved quite a great deal, and you've got to
be excited if you're a Dolphins fans that he can
improve more for sure, and I think the infrastructure of
(34:14):
that offense has opened up to the point where he
can kind of show what he can do in a
way that he was not able to the first two
years in Miami. I mean that offense. Yes, he is
a very accurate pastor in the short and intermediate range.
He's good during over the middle of the field. He's
good on our pos with making smart decisions and getting
the ball out fast and and not just one hopping
(34:36):
the ball or putting it two lower, two high, and
we're putting in the right spot for a guy to
create yards after the catch because he's hitting them in stride.
And we've seen more of that this year. But we
know from his days of Alabamma he can throw deep.
It's not like he's Chad Pennington, you know, where he
just can't deliver a deep pass. I mean even Chad Pennington,
by the way, like we remember the last few years
(34:56):
of his career, but there was a period early in
his career where he was like a top five quarterback.
Oh sure, And I think with to a you know, like,
it wasn't that he was not physically able to do
it last year, it was that he was physically not
able to do it while staying upright because he did
not have the past protection to pull that off. And
I think that is the difference for me this year
(35:17):
is that the past protection has been better, and that
means his confidence is growing. It means he has more
faith in his offensive line, especially before this recent stretch
where he struggled and line has been not doing as
good of a job. But I think we've been able
to see what he can do because of the context
around him. It's not as if he was not able
to do that in years past. It was just that
he did not have the context around him to be
(35:39):
able to show that off. So and a little more
like the past protection also allows him to do a
little more playmaking, which I'm not saying he's Alita or
even above average, but he's shown it and that's the
next step for him, that when he does have extra
time and he's getting to his third or fourth three
and he just has to go make a play. He's
done that a bit this year. He's done He's done that,
(36:01):
and UM, it's encouraging to see that because you didn't
see that in the first couple of years. So if
there was an actual award he would be a pretty
strong candidate to win it because he would get a
lot of love. All right, we each have one more pick.
You're not getting your over, You're not. You're not. Would
you say Jalen Hurts has improved more than when you
when you said to quarterbacks, that's oh, you're right, shoot Hurts.
(36:27):
I don't know why. I just guess I'm thinking about
him as an m v P and and that I
like had the Eagles in the super Bowl before the season.
But yeah, of course he's improved incredible more. Yeah, that's right.
Given it to myself. No, it's not hurt. Do you
want do you want offensive lineman or a skill position player.
(36:50):
Let's just give me both and we'll make it the
next year. Just talk about one. We'll talk about one. Uh,
Mike the offensive. Now let's go through. They moved him
around and now he said it one spot playing very well.
I'll go Donovan People's Jones, my receiver who I did
not have high hopes. Work kind of figured, Okay, he's
going to be the second or third guy. Maybe Anthony
(37:12):
Schwartz moves past it in Cleveland. Since Week four, he's
averaging just under two yards per route. Run. He's ahead
of d J. Moore, ahead of Davante Smith, ahead of
Keenan Allen, Deepo, Samuel Brandon. I. I mean, all of
these guys who you think of as superstars, and I
think Jacoby Brissette has played well, certainly, but it's not
like Jacoby Rossette is a superstar quarterback. He was on
(37:36):
my long list. It was good. I didn't know there
was a long list. I mean kind sent me the
long list. Briv. He's but not way people's choage is
a legit number two NFL white out and I did
not see him at that level before this year, and
I think he's still pretty young. Of course, they're getting
an upgraded quarterback with Deshaun Watson. Granted he has not
looked very good to start this year, but hopefully next
(37:57):
year he'll be better. And I think he can be
like a legit starting NFL wide receiver that's pretty valuable
for a midground pick. Yeah, I did not see that coming, um,
but he has a good feel for spacing and making
big plays. And you've seen it in the return game
a little bit too with that touchdown. Uh, they found
(38:18):
something there. Receivers are so valuable these days. Um, I
almost feel like you just gotta take as many as
you can in the draft. It's kind of like the
old quarterback thing that I used to think take one
every year. Receivers, Now you should take one or two
every year. I think the Packers are are very happy
with their second and fourth round pick. Um. I'll wrap
it up with Jalen Phillips. I'm going double on the Daltons.
(38:41):
Gregg he was on the list. He was he was
number six on my list. I mean, how do I
you didn't say him though, you didn't say his name. Well,
I got one that's under one, and that's true. Jalen
Phillips and and Joshneiman were my two other guys earlier
in the show. That doesn't count. Um, the parade is mine.
(39:04):
Jalen Phillips was a guy last year who got all
these sacks and all the you know, supposedly smart people
would just noted like, well, he didn't actually have that
many pressures. I mean, me, I'm putting myself in the game.
It's like he didn't really have that many pressures and
he would get washed away in the running game. It's
like that's all fine now you look back at it.
That he has sixty pressures on this season, is playing
(39:28):
way more because they trust him and run defense and
has been playing good run defense. Uh, and just has instincts.
And then you look back at last year and you think, like,
maybe he just has good instincts for finishing plays, which
is valuable now that maybe that doesn't always translate. But
the fact that he went from year one, Okay, he
(39:48):
just got the sacks to year two he's doing it
all and he's getting the sacks is a great sign
because this year it's not it's not luck, but he's
certainly has a great nose forgetting and around tackles. He's
one of those guys and I love pastors rushers like
this that just don't get touched by the offensive lineman
barely sometimes, And those are the types of guys I want. Yeah,
(40:10):
And I mean, like Jollen Phillips had such a weird,
you know, disrupted career in college. He had to retire
he got hit by a car. I mean, he really
came back and and sort of just uh, you know,
kind of came out of that one year in Miami
to play at a high level and U and get
to the Dolphins. So it would make sense that he
would improve more than the typical player from year one
(40:32):
to year two. It would make sense that he's a
work in progress. So I'm not surprised he's made that growth.
I think he has that kind of upside and we're
seeing him deliver that more and more. And I mean
there are plays in games when you watch the Dolphins
where he is totally unblockable and he looks like the
best player on the field the last two weeks time,
I mean, I'm I'm definitely being a little recency by
(40:52):
and by us here. He has had a great season overall,
but the last two weeks he's taking it to another level.
And you're right, but the pre draft thing was like
he could be a little bit of a project, but
the highest upside and that it's proven. Right, You've got
the highest upside. Bill, you deserve all the parades. Uh
you wrote a great article on ESPN dot com today
(41:13):
about the quarterback situations. I'm jealous all the different potential
teams that could be changing quarterbacks. No, it is really
good analysis. Everyone should check it out on ESPN Plus.
And uh No, I'm just jealous because that's the type
of thing, you know, I wish I had written, but
Bill barn More, nothing stopping you. I'm not gonna assue
(41:34):
you if you write about quarterbacks and where they might go.
It's not my idea, that's true. I'm I'll save it
for January. Uh, and then it will be like slightly
different form, but it's probably coming maybe fas even just
just like underrated, just like that the most improved players.
(41:55):
That's the real answer, Bill. And it sounds like I'm
a blow hard, but that's what's getting in the way
all these podcasts that I'm doing so many. I didn't
even know that we already did most Improved. It's too many.
That's when you know you've done too many. It's a problem.
I think this was like a moment here, you know,
where we realize we have a problem. Oh you know what, Greg,
(42:18):
you have made a career out of your addiction and
that's what matters. That's that's a goal for ever. That
was a sound drop. Thank you Bill Barnwell for coming
on late night on the East Coast for rams Packers
and all the most improved and Uh, have a great Christmas, Bill,
thanks for joining me. Thank you, sir. Have great holidays
(42:40):
all right? For Bill Barnwell for Justin Graver. We'll be
back on Tuesday. We have Kyle lean Wolf in the studio.
Connor Or is going to join the show talk favorite
Hallmark Christmas movie is gonna be good. He had the
call se
Bayfield is not goes Bayfield duck out wait action, I'm
the pressure by Freeld falls out, Bayfield kieks and down
it goes pressure and Preston Smith gets the Baker Mayfield
(00:21):
Another sound that were the five sacks recorded by the
Green Bay Packers against the Los Angeles Rams in twelve
Monday Night football victory. I'm Greg Rosenthal. I'm joined by
Bill Barnwell, and I'm also joined by our producer, Justin Graver,
who decided with that highlight reel to just like get creative.
(00:44):
That was his artistic rendering of this game, just going
with back sax On Baker. Do you not like Baker Mayfield,
Justin or something? No? I like Baker Mayfield. I love
Baker in Los Angeles. I just felt like I kept
looking up at the TV and he was getting sacked
in every week. I feel like it's just like a
touchdown montage, and I was getting bored of just always
doing a basic touchdown montage. So I like it. We
(01:06):
are fifteen weeks and we're getting art house, we're getting creative,
and uh, we're gonna talk about the most improved players
in the league later in the show bill. But I'm
so happy to have you here, and I'm so happy
that you can break down this game with me. And
I'm expecting like unbelievable analysis out of you tonight, But
you chose the wrong person, unfortunately. I was thinking, to
(01:29):
be honest with you. I know I'm biased, I work
for ESPN, but Joe Buck does a really good job
of building up the tension on sacks like I can
picture I can picture the pass rush closing in on
Baker Mayfield as his voice gets more and more excited.
He's really good at that. I didn't realize that until
I hurt this this clip here, So thank you justin
(01:50):
for that. And you're hitting on a point I was
thinking about tonight, which is Joe Buck does seem to
be leaning into making the game as exciting as possible. Well,
maybe it's because Packers Rams isn't the big time game
that we thought it was going to be before the season.
You know, this is a game network has probably fought over.
This was for sure, maybe the number one game on
(02:11):
the Monday and at football schedule going into this season.
Obviously not as much at stake as we expect and
not anywhere close. And so yeah, he's trying to make
it feel like a big event, and he did a
good job of it. Baker Mayfield's inclusion made it more
interesting coming into the game. Did it make it more
interesting for you, Bill during the game? No, because weirdly,
(02:35):
I think Baker Mayfield gets worse as he learns more
about his team and his playbook. You know, I I
look at what happened in that game last week, the
Thursday night game against the Raiders, which was you know,
every week feels like there's either a traumatic thing happening
to the Raiders or a a glorious season saving event
(02:56):
happening to the Raiders. Um given their losses now are
they're there and their loss in back to back weeks
in the final moments of the whole season, Bill, someone
needs to write a great oral history about this Raiders season.
If you go through it one by one, almost every
game is completely bananas. But that but that's beside the
point tonight. You're right with with the Packers and the Rams, though,
(03:18):
it felt like Baker growing more confident in the offense
gave him more pause. It felt like he was not
as confident ripping the football, and I felt like a
lot of this offense was just basically boot and him
checking it down to the underneath guy on boot and
that's there's nothing wrong at that, but it's gonna be
really hard to get the ball down the field for
(03:40):
you know, a a eighty or ninety yard touchdown drive,
doing that over and over again without a sack or
a penalty or a turnover. And we saw that happen
over and over again to the Rams in this game. Yeah,
they could not protect Baker for long he held onto
the ball. They end up with only a hundred and
fifty six yards of offense three points x yards for play,
(04:01):
and yet I for stretches. I was like, you know what,
he's ripping it. Okay, when he actually sets up and
has a target to throw to, they hit on two,
third and very long is the third and fifteen and
a third and thirteen came Makers runs, but the Rams
field beside the point. Ultimately, this is a game about
the Packers, and I was curious coming into it considering
(04:22):
the Packers remaining schedule. It's challenging, it's at Miami next week,
it's the Lions, and the Vikings said, let's we'll talk
about their playoff potential in a second. But the reason
I was curious about this game. Was I kind of
have an idea that their offense has mostly solved their
issues and it's actually a really good offense right now.
And I wanted to see if that UM opinion was confirmed,
(04:44):
and it was. They only had nine drive For me,
it was confirmed twenty seven first downs. They would have
had thirty one points if they got another couple of
yards right at the end. Uh. What do you think
about the Packers offense right now? I think they're finding
solutions that work, you know. I think they have a
little more faith in the rookie wide receivers now. And
(05:05):
I think they've gotten better, certainly with Christian Watson. And
and Doom's not coming back from his he had a
high ankle sprain, right, I mean, I'm not mistaken there
in terms of injuries. Yeah, and he was five for
fifty five tonight. Yeah, and he looked good. And Christian Watson,
of course very notably not turned around and what could
have been a a game ceiling touchdown in the final
(05:25):
couple of minutes. UM. But you know, I felt like
they were running the ball effectively. I felt like they were,
you know, making generally good decisions with the football. The
one exception was the interception on what looked to be
a bit of miscommunication between Rogers and Alan Lazard. But
this kind of felt like the old Packers, you know.
It felt like a game they dominated from start to finish.
(05:47):
It felt like a game where they were in control
on both sides of the ball, and it felt like, honestly,
the only thing missing were the shot plays, because there
were plenty of times in this game where they went
play action. Aaron Rodgers took a seven step drop and
he had all the time in the world to throw
and nobody was open. I think that's the one notable
difference between like your Packers and even this impressive, frankly
(06:12):
version of what we saw from the Packers today. That's
a good point. It was twenty degrees out there, which
we should mention. I mean, that's exceptionally. Can we talk
about the all time reverse jinxing happening during the game
when they kept they kept mentioning, that's not about how
that there only been two kicks of fifty plus yards
(06:34):
and in sub twinty degree with either Macie comes out
and is hitting a fifty five yarder, and honestly, it
would have been good for from about sixty three or
sixty four. Just an incredible kick. It was an amazing
kick and gave missed that extra point later. It's first
of the year. Yeah. They also jinx that the Rams
hadn't had a touchdown to a tight end all season,
(06:54):
literally one play before Tyler Higbee wrapped up the scoring
with a late third quarter touch down. So yeah, that
a lot of jinx is around. But you could see
on the kickoffs, especially it's degree so when people are
getting on Baker Mayfield for a deep shot to two
two out, well late in the game, hanging up there.
I think you have to count the weather here as
(07:16):
a factor. I don't know what it all means, but
I know those balls are are not the same as
they normally would be. It was much colder even than
it was in Buffalo the other night, So I think
that's that's part of it. And I look at this
Packers offense and I think, like the offense could be
good enough to win these last three games and see
if they can get a tiebreaker. I I don't know
(07:38):
if the defense is, but I've thought all season that
the Packers should be, let's say right now, like an
eight and six team. That's really what they profile more
as if you if you look at their d v
o A, their offense throughout the season has been close
to top ten, if not top ten since weeks seven
is a long sample size. I picked that just because
that's eight games going to tonight there they were eighth
(08:01):
in the league. That will only go up, like they
get first downs. Jones and Dylan, they're one of the
best combos in the league. And Dylan left with a
potential concussion, which which would be a big injury going
into this Miami game. But seeing Dobbs, Watson and Lazard
on the field all at the same time, it was nice.
And I think Rogers is for the most part throwing
(08:21):
the ball well, and he's playing great against the Blitz.
They tried to blitz him tonight. He went ten for
twelve for ninety three yards against it. He's been great
against the Blitz all year. Like it's a good offense.
Like people have gotten so hard on the Packers because
they're not like a top three offense. It's a good offense. Okay,
it's a fine offense. I I think it's it's not
a problematic offense. But the thing that made this offense
(08:45):
work over the past few years is that they never
ever turned the football over. They had thirteen giveaways all season.
They had a liven all year in twenty all season
in one. They had to tonight, if I'm not mistaken, Yeah,
(09:07):
they had to tonight. That's nineteen already for this season
with three games to go. And I think when you
look at what happened with them in the past, Rogers
was cooking, he was playing much better. They had Davante Adams,
but they also never turned the ball over and at
least they were the best red zone offense in the
history of the National Football League. And I think they
(09:30):
sort of have to adapt because they play a very slow,
methodical style. They don't get a lot of possessions per
game by design, they don't play very fast, and I
think that might be something that they would consider adjusting,
um given the style they're playing, given that they do
need to get a couple of extra drives per game
to score points. But I think at the end of
(09:52):
the day, like they're the part of this team I
have more faith in relative to the defense. Right, those
are all really good points. I like it when Bill
just like slaps me down to size like, they're good,
They're fine. You're absolutely right if you would to put
a number on it, ignored the stats, just in a vacuum.
(10:14):
What where do you think they would rank in the NFL?
We were ranking in NFL offenses right this very second,
with their current personnel, they would make my top ten
probably probably right at the end, nine or ten. So
i'd have to go through. They're like twelve or thirteen.
For me, I don't think we're far off here. Okay,
I agree, And part of it is because their offensive
line issues for the most parts, have been solved. Zack
(10:35):
Thomas come in and played well for them, a rookie player,
yosh yosh Nieman has played well, and they've just figured
it out and there and they're playing better. And these
defenses they're playing down the stretch two aren't great. Miami, Detroit, Minnesota.
So I look at those uh that backfield and you
could see it tonight. Not that the Rams are an
amazing defense, but when Dylan is trucking Taylor rap On
(11:00):
on the goal line and just I've always loved Aaron
Jones and seeing him in space, it's just there are
a lot to deal with, and to me, Christian Watson
kind of unlocked this entire uh offense. He yeah, he
had that play at the end where if he had
turned around, he would have changed a lot of fantasy
UH competitions, playoff games tonight. UH. They would have scored
(11:21):
over thirty, they would have hit the over, so a
lot of money would have changed hands. But for the
most part, to me, he's locked, unlocked this offense. I
don't have any faith though, that their defense will play enough,
or play well enough to hold those three teams down
to possibly win three in a row, or more importantly,
just win on Sunday. They are one of the three
Christmas Games. Bill Barnwell, they are the first one. Do
(11:45):
you believe that their defense could could somehow get something
going here? I think what has to happen is they
have to have a good pass rush. And I know, like, yes,
every defense is a good pass rush. This sounds like
it sounds like like stupid criticism pretending to be smart criticism,
or or fake insight pretending to be insight. But I
(12:07):
think they're more dependent on their pass rush than most
other teams in the NFL, and that has been inconsistent
for them this year. You look at this game. Here
they were playing a shall we say, compromised Ram's offensive
line where pretty much everybody is injured. They lost Brian Allen,
their starting center, on the second step, third step of
(12:28):
the game on offense and had to replace him. And
Rob Havnstein is having this weird season where he looks
like he's never played football before and it's just getting
destroyed every single week. He's been terrible. I mean, I
don't want to be mean, but he's been one of
the worst players in the league over the last half season.
And he's the one guy who's supposed to be like
the reliable one. He's the one starter they have left.
(12:50):
The Packers had doing mathe he I think they had
five sacks in this game. To listen to the highlights,
was justin like thin red right there, like he's a
he's gonna submit that for a podcast award. It's gonna
be it's gonna be a con. He did warn me
about it, and I was just like, okay, okay, do
(13:11):
do your thing. Do your thing. Justin I like you,
like he's spread in your wings. Yes, So twenties six
dropbacks for Baker Mayfield, five sacks. They have not been
that good to a pass rush for most of this season,
but I think they have to be that over the
final three weeks of the year. And by the way,
the Dolphins since Toronto and instead got hurt in the
(13:31):
first half of that Texans game. Two has been getting hit.
The Bills actually did the worst job of getting pressure
onto A of any team over the past years. But
the Texans got five sacks on to a in in
the the second half of that game where he got benched.
The Miners beat up to A. The Chargers had plenty
of pressure onto A, and I think the Packers can
(13:52):
do that, but it's not a given or a guarantee
in the way it would have been maybe a couple
of years ago. And my whole thing with this Packers
team is they've been a little better, I think than
the record show their three and five and one score games.
They had a streak of them in the middle of
the season where they just kept losing Giants, Commanders, Lions,
(14:14):
and and maybe they should probably be seven and seven,
they should be eight and six. I'm very intrigued by
that game. I also wanted to ask you about Christmas
games in general. Go ahead, what I want to point out.
Is that kind of the the the the cards this
house was built on for the Packers over the past
(14:36):
three years was winning a lot of those close games.
I felt very stupid for the past couple of years
because every year I've talked about their their record in
games decided by seven points or less and said, well, Okay,
this year, finally they're gonna go back and regress towards
the mean and they're going to be a normal team.
There's no reason why they're good at these games. And
(14:56):
they were good at they were good at it. They
were good one. They were a combined fourteen and six
in those one score games the prior three years. And
I bring that up not to to take a victory lap.
That's not the point, but what I am saying, that's
the point. Let's let's do it. Let's have a parade
(15:17):
for Bill Barnwell, right, and it'd be nice. I would.
I would take it. I would. I would love love
a marching bands. We need more holiday parades. It's like,
I guess we got the Rose parade after January one.
That's like about roses. They should have Christmas parades. They
should have Bill Barnwell. Uh is an excellent writer parades,
(15:37):
like we should nominate one person every year to have
a parade thrown in their honor, Like whoever has the
best preseason predictions, Like if Bill really nails his preseason
teams that are going to regress or or improve, It
makes total sense that you've been on that corner with
the Packers. And and that's a good point that, Uh,
this is a franchise that probably could use some bad
luck after all the good luck they've had. I'm just
(16:00):
saying that I think maybe the bar for what you
would expect them to be maybe shouldn't be as high
as the record was in prior years. Like I think
they've been a a ten and a half eleven win
team in the past few years, which is fine. They're
still very good, but I don't think they've fallen off
quite as much as maybe their record would indicate given
their record in prior years. Yeah, and their defense, to
(16:21):
me all season has been the biggest problems and some
of the traditional stats hasn't haven't said it because they're
the type of defense that just never gets off the field,
that gives up these long drives, these soul crushing drives,
and uh, they haven't shown enough for me to believe
that's gonna be any different. Next week against Miami is
kind of their their final test. But yeah, the guy's
(16:42):
getting sacked tonight. We're like Nabarre. Is that how you
say his name? He's the fifth round rookie outside linebacker
has been playing better lately. I just noticed Justin Hollins
gotta have a sack. He was on the range. Revenge game.
It was a revenge game. Greg, I can't believe you
did not pay attention to that. Uh. Yeah, they invested
so much. And I never like it when teams over
(17:04):
invest in the defense in general, and especially not when
you have a quarterback like Aaron Rodgers. Uh, just think
offense is more consistent. And they put so much into
the defense this year that it needed to be a
top five to tend defense, and it's been below average.
And I don't know. There's something about Aaron Rodgers, I guess.
(17:24):
Even though I don't root for any of his rival
teams and I've always, you know, more or less been
neutral on Aaron Rodgers, are enjoyed the experience. I certainly
love watching him throw the ball. Like I'm still just
kind of afraid of him that they will win these
three games. There's part of me that is a fan
of another team that's like, oh, they're gonna win these games.
No one thinks they're they're gonna win him great. Could
(17:46):
you not see a universe where it's Week eighteen and
it's the Packers, the team that everyone's kind of sick of,
that we know is not that good with the quarterback
who you know has been tiptoeing around retirement for the
last three years, Versus the Lions. Yes, uh, the the team. Everybody,
including the Around the NFL podcast, all love the team
(18:08):
that we've adopted, that we've we've had, We've put our
our boots on the ground for for the past year
waiting to see them rise up. And now this is
their chance to cook it to the postseason. Then Aaron
Rodgers is going to get in the way. I love it, Bill,
give it to me. I mean, look at Bill barton football,
look at Bill Barnwell, loyal to football and loyal to
(18:30):
those Lions. I mean even prompting Justin to play our
little theme song about the Lions. I love it. Give
me that as the Week eighteen game. That's what I need.
I want either that and I've already looked at this.
I'm always obsessed with the Week eighteen thing. Um A, yeah,
there's a lot of options. Practically every game feels like
an option. I want that or Jets Dolphins as a
(18:50):
winning in type of game. Either one of those to
me would be delicious. But Packers Lions feels right. It
feels better, and the Packers are gonna need to uh
win two straight games to set that up. Yeah, or
Titans Jaguars. You can't say Jaguars anymore. We gotta just
say it's Jaguars. J I don't know who who tweeted
(19:14):
about it. I think it was our friend Ben Solac today.
That was just saying that anyone who says Jaguars on
a podcast is immediately suspended, and and I thought to myself, yes,
I've thought that that too. We need to stop these people. Wars. Well,
the British say Jaguars. It is London's team. I'm gonna
go with Jags from now on, so I don't mess
(19:35):
it up. I don't want Jack Titans, what about Ravens Bengals.
This would have been a great top six list. I'm
not even joking. Top six potential Week eight teen games
and just talk about that. Yeah, Ravens Bengals is awesome too.
I don't think we're going to get a bad one
this year. The only way it gets bad is basically
if the only winning in scenario is one of the
(19:55):
Southern divisions and Jaguars Titans would be fine. I'm not
gonna hate that, but the NFC South would be horrible.
I love Jack's Titans because you have Travor turboR. Lawrence
is playing out of his mind right now, and you
have Derrick Henry, who has owned the Jaguars for years now,
even had like a hundred yards in the first half
against them last time out, and then he got shut
(20:16):
down in the second half, and I don't know how
it happened, Like, I think that could be a real shootout.
I I would be on board for Tennessee Jacksonville in
the week game. Okay, I would too. In a normal year,
it's like a seven and a half out of ten.
But with these other games that are possible that just
seem like the Lions, Packers, or Bengals, Ravens or Jets, Dolphins,
(20:38):
those all seem awesome to me. So so that's all.
It's just knowing that there's others out there, you won't
be watching Texans Colts. I mean I'll be watching whatever
it is we got to talk about it. It's the
last game of the year that will not be a
game because that cannot have an elimination scenario. At this point,
I don't think the Colts can get back in this.
Thank the Vikings for that quickly on the rams because
(20:58):
before we get to the most improved list, I don't
know if there's much to say about a cam Akers
had a hundred. Had a hundred yards tonight out of
one six Yeah, yeah, sixty on the ground and thirty
five through the art. Uh yeah, totally yards, but fifteen touches.
I mean for a team that had one fifty six
(21:19):
to have a hundred is impressive. He has show explosion
after a really lost early part of the season. Um,
I think he came back from that injury looking much better.
So to me, the rest of their season is just
seeing who among these players can matter for next year,
including Baker as a potential backup, including Acres in where
(21:41):
he fits in, Guys like Michael Hoyt, who's really looked
great as an edge rusher. So that's a nice find.
Some of the guys in their secondary and that's about it.
They just need to find some players, guys like Leonard
Floyd actually who they'll be making a decision on whether
they want to keep him. Like they can say fifteen
million dollars against the cap, and they're gonna need money.
He's been playing great lately, so he might be auditioning
(22:02):
for for another team. That that's sort of all that
matters for the Rams season at this point. Yeah, I
think sort of cycling through some of their younger players
as well. Like you know, like like the guys in
the secondary, you're Nick Scotcher, Taylor Raps who are coming
up either towards the end of their rookie deals or
the ring positions where you know they're not making a
lot of money and you can replace them, maybe you
draft a guy to replace them, And it's you know,
(22:22):
can you trust those guys to be a part of
a championship caliber defense? Scott was last year, rap really
was not a focal point of that defense. Thinks a
free agent and uh, I would guess he'll be gone
just because I would imagine as well. Yeah, and they
have they have other good players. You're right in the
in the secondary or at least that they want to see,
like like Kobe Durant and yeah, but but Acres is
(22:43):
a good example. I mean, he was almost out of
the organization. If anybody could offer them a swap of
late round picks, I think he'd be on a different
team right now. But he looks the best he's looked
since his achilles injury. He was terrible in the postseason,
almost cost the Rams their super Bowl given how bad
he played, uh and in the final two rounds of
the playoffs last year. But you know, obviously impressively came
(23:05):
back and looks much better now, thankfully. And I think,
you know, for a offense that could really use a
relatively cheap running back to be, you know, the focal
point of their running game, can't makers looks like maybe
he can be that guy if he plays this way
over the rest of the season, right Because something tells
me they're going to be spending money on offensive lineman
and uh I would hope so, but potentially quarterback and
(23:28):
defensive tackles. We don't know who's going to be back
for the Rams. That's for the off season. Let's talk
about a list that I'm excited about I'm so excited
about it, Bill, uh that I'm going to give you
the first draft pick. It's our most improved players. And
if you're a regular listener of the Monday Night Football
Pro podcast, you might think to yourself, wait, didn't Greg
(23:50):
already do most improved Players? Uh? Yeah, I did. I
I just went third person too, and I didn't really
realize it till I was writing down Christian Derri saw
like a few hours before the show is like, this
seems familiar, but it's the end of the season, and
I think most Improved Player should be an award that
is actually given by the NFL because it makes more
(24:13):
sense to me than come back players. So I think
it's good to be circling back right now. And at
least the players I'm throwing out would be legit candidates
for an actual most improved Player awards. So this is
more the end of the season. Bill. You go, first,
how how long ago did you? I don't want to.
I thought about not bringing this up because how many
(24:33):
people would really notice? Not that many? Um, But I
just thought it was funny because I was like, Derris, wait,
this this feels familiar. This is when you know you've
done too many shows. I think it was like six
weeks ago. But I'm doing different players, Bill, I want
to hear, what do you think I think about in
(24:55):
the past. Yeah, but this is this is all embarrassing.
It was Charles McDonald. Okay, I respect Charles's opinion, So
if it was someone I did not respect, I'd say
this is totally different. I mean, this is such a
great award potential. We could do it every week. Let's
just talk about improved players. What's more human than trying
(25:15):
to improve and recognizing that in the holiday season, Bill
being critical. We do that pretty often too, So that's
what it's nice to be. Give me pick, give me
your first pick. Okay, one more thing before I start there. Okay,
I just want to put it out there. I mentioned
this before we started taping. Last time I came on
the show, we had another list where you both came
(25:36):
up with like two or three of the same things.
The over under for the number of players we're going
to name that are identical to me is two and
a half. WHOA. I thought we said it at one
and a half and you were taking it over before
the show, but you just gave away a free number. Okay,
a little different, like I just gave away Derris saw
(25:57):
is not can't be on my list because it was
on it last time. Though it's a slightly different list,
but sure, I'll go with that. We're getting the most
improved by team here. Okay. Number one for me a
guy who was a question to even be starting this
year and a player on America's team, the Detroit Lions,
is jeff A Kuda, a player who was kind of
(26:20):
lost under Matt Patricia, was a mess as a rookie.
Tori's achilles was a question whether he was going to start.
I think, uh a Moni over Warrier was looking really
good like this year, like he was maybe going to
play ahead of a Kuda. A Kuda wins the job
in camp, and he's been really good, you know. I
think the Lions defense admittedly has been pretty iffy. I
(26:40):
don't think Ada has been a super star necessarily, but
he's had a lot of tough assignments and I think
he's battles really well. Had did a really good job
that one week against Justin Jefferson. Not so much in
the rematch, I guess, but you know, when he's been healthy,
he's missed a couple of weeks, but when he's been healthy,
I think he's been an above average starting cornerback, and
I think that's the perfect timing for that for the Lions,
(27:01):
given how little they got from him over his first
couple of seasons in the league. So Accuda number one
on my list. I love that, and I love that
we're doing this list again because it just gives us
a chance to talk about players I never do at
length on this podcast. I think he's a perfect pick
because of where he was in his career, and also
as a representative of the Lions defense, which is the
most improved defense throughout the course of the season since
(27:23):
they're bye week there in d v O A. I
mean that's average. I mean that's better than average. And
I hate to be cliche, but Akuda is the perfect,
uh example of why I like watching the Lions defense.
They just fly around the field, and that's the cliche,
but they play with such great energy and Accuda's physical.
(27:44):
They give him the toughest assignments. Some weeks it goes okay,
you're well and coverage some weeks it doesn't. But he's
a great tackler and he's great and run defense and
he makes plays outside of just being uncoverage and I
think that's typical of this team, uh, of Rodrigo and
the rest of him. So I love okudas the first
pick five point six pass and reading a loud Perfootball
(28:06):
Reference which checks out to me. A cornerback reference stats
are always a little iffy, but I think, you know, again,
not a superstar. There are guys with better numbers, but
I think a solid corner on a team that needs
solid players on the defensive side of the well. And
I hate you never want to see top five picks
wash out, and uh it's always a good reminder to
give them time and see what happens. But that's especially
(28:28):
to you at cornerback. Cornerback is so unpredictable that sometimes
guys who don't seem like they're gonna make it on
their first contract have great careers. I'm going with the
guy that was at a totally different position. There's no
way you wrote them down, Bill barn Well. I'm taking
Juwan Johnson with my pick. Joan Johnson was a wide receiver.
He was I know. I I was taking John Johnson
(28:50):
in Best Ball drafts last year. Think he might be
the new Marques Colston. Okay, so no I picked them
because none of these wide receivers to tight ends. I
shouldn't say nothing. It's pretty rare that it works out.
And so Sean Payton moved him to tight end, and
I didn't see it. He still looked like like a
like a like he was too slow to even play
(29:11):
tight end when he was playing wide receiver. But he
really has improved. I watched enough of the Saints in
the preseason and the regular season when he was on
the field the last couple of years, UH to see
what he's doing this year that he's worked on his
game and he's explosive, he has great hands, he's obviously
good in the red zone. And it's a little crazy
that he scored seven touchdowns, but he has thirty five
catches for four hundred and sixteen yards. UH. And he's reliable.
(29:34):
Like they've found something in him and Rashid Shahi. The
Saints have had the most bizarre season ever. But Juwan
Johnson is a real player. Jowan Johnson is going to
get a nice second contract as a tight end and
he's not even getting to the second contract yet, only
a third year player. And so I love seeing guys
like that who just you had no thought would be
a quality starter become one absolutely. And I think, you know,
(29:57):
the numbers don't sound like they're blowing you away with
you know, thirty five or four, sixteen and seven, But
that's the seventh best fantasy performance from any tight end
in football this year, and it's getting he's five or
six weeks. It's just like the difficulty of the catches
that he makes, Like that's a skill set that should travel.
All right, what's your next pick? My next pick is
(30:20):
I'll give you one that I think was probably on
most people's list, and that's Talnoah Funka, the Niners safety
where I just think not perfect, there's still weeks where
people take advantage of him here and there, but such
a playmaker. He's made them so much better. Um, you know,
he can play different spots on the defense, and I
(30:41):
think play them at a high level. I think he's physical.
I think he is you know it kind of has
that knack of being in the right place at the
right time. That's the skill, even if it might not
necessarily look like a skill, um, you know, on a
given play. But I think that Niners defense the secondary
was the big question mark for them heading into the year,
even after adding to various ward and I think fans
(31:03):
year to your growth was significant enough that he's the
reason to me why they're the best defensive football and
not the fifth or sixth or seventh or eighth best
defensive football. That's that's type praise and and I agree
certainly that he deserves to be on this list. I
don't know if he's the difference, but he is a
(31:24):
great example of a coach and a coaching staff using
a guy's instinctive skill set to their full advantage. And
he's a guy that when he was popping in the preseason,
most people probably looked him up and thought like, oh,
is he a rookie? And no, he's not a rookie.
He just really came out of Noor. I love that.
I'm gonna um pick a player not on your list,
(31:44):
though not on my list. You're not getting your over
over one and half unless you have this man. And
I I could choose between two big name quarterbacks, okay,
and I'm gonna take two a tongue of Violoa and
most improved and instead of Trevor Lawrence, because you know
Trevor it was a rookie quarterback. We we know the
(32:06):
situation there, and he's improved unbelievably during the season. We
talked enough about chart to me, two is a better
choice because he had already played so much in the
NFL and we'd seen him over the last two years,
and before Dolphins fans get in their feelings, I was
higher on two A in general the last two years
then consensus, I would say, because I thought what he
(32:27):
showed in those two years was a skill set that
was better or almost elite in some areas than NFL starters.
And that was in quick game and that was in um,
you know, the way he handles the ball, but also
quick accuracy, and like, that's a skill set that travels.
(32:48):
We've seen enough quarterbacks that never have that, and that
he was almost at an elite level of that right
off the bat. So like, Okay, you can work with
this hopeful, you can build out different parts of his
game and you can build around him, uh, and then
he'll improve more. So I already sort of saw him
that he was gonna be an Alex Smith type UM,
(33:09):
and I don't think that's a derogatory And I thought
that was like the middle point of how his career
would go. And I think you look at this season
and you want to just give all the credit to
Tyree Hill and Jalen Waddle and Mike McDaniel, and I
think that's unfair because I think the timing that he
shows on the deep throws and the confidence that he
(33:30):
plays with a lot of it is just confidence. And
maybe that comes from coaching and how he's been talked
up and and everything that he's worked on, But he
didn't show those things necessarily in this first two years.
And so yeah, it's the situation improving for him. But
I think he's legitimately improved. And even if his arm
isn't big, can it be big enough to be extremely
(33:52):
efficient throwing deep like Drew Brees was throughout his career.
I think he has a chance to do that. I
don't think he's all the way there yet. I don't
think he's an m v P You candidate, and I
never quite saw you was there. But I think there's
a middle ground here where, like you can recognize he
has improved quite a great deal, and you've got to
be excited if you're a Dolphins fans that he can
improve more for sure, and I think the infrastructure of
(34:14):
that offense has opened up to the point where he
can kind of show what he can do in a
way that he was not able to the first two
years in Miami. I mean that offense. Yes, he is
a very accurate pastor in the short and intermediate range.
He's good during over the middle of the field. He's
good on our pos with making smart decisions and getting
the ball out fast and and not just one hopping
(34:36):
the ball or putting it two lower, two high, and
we're putting in the right spot for a guy to
create yards after the catch because he's hitting them in stride.
And we've seen more of that this year. But we
know from his days of Alabamma he can throw deep.
It's not like he's Chad Pennington, you know, where he
just can't deliver a deep pass. I mean even Chad Pennington,
by the way, like we remember the last few years
(34:56):
of his career, but there was a period early in
his career where he was like a top five quarterback.
Oh sure, And I think with to a you know, like,
it wasn't that he was not physically able to do
it last year, it was that he was physically not
able to do it while staying upright because he did
not have the past protection to pull that off. And
I think that is the difference for me this year
(35:17):
is that the past protection has been better, and that
means his confidence is growing. It means he has more
faith in his offensive line, especially before this recent stretch
where he struggled and line has been not doing as
good of a job. But I think we've been able
to see what he can do because of the context
around him. It's not as if he was not able
to do that in years past. It was just that
he did not have the context around him to be
(35:39):
able to show that off. So and a little more
like the past protection also allows him to do a
little more playmaking, which I'm not saying he's Alita or
even above average, but he's shown it and that's the
next step for him, that when he does have extra
time and he's getting to his third or fourth three
and he just has to go make a play. He's
done that a bit this year. He's done He's done that,
(36:01):
and UM, it's encouraging to see that because you didn't
see that in the first couple of years. So if
there was an actual award he would be a pretty
strong candidate to win it because he would get a
lot of love. All right, we each have one more pick.
You're not getting your over, You're not. You're not. Would
you say Jalen Hurts has improved more than when you
when you said to quarterbacks, that's oh, you're right, shoot Hurts.
(36:27):
I don't know why. I just guess I'm thinking about
him as an m v P and and that I
like had the Eagles in the super Bowl before the season.
But yeah, of course he's improved incredible more. Yeah, that's right.
Given it to myself. No, it's not hurt. Do you
want do you want offensive lineman or a skill position player.
(36:50):
Let's just give me both and we'll make it the
next year. Just talk about one. We'll talk about one. Uh,
Mike the offensive. Now let's go through. They moved him
around and now he said it one spot playing very well.
I'll go Donovan People's Jones, my receiver who I did
not have high hopes. Work kind of figured, Okay, he's
going to be the second or third guy. Maybe Anthony
(37:12):
Schwartz moves past it in Cleveland. Since Week four, he's
averaging just under two yards per route. Run. He's ahead
of d J. Moore, ahead of Davante Smith, ahead of
Keenan Allen, Deepo, Samuel Brandon. I. I mean, all of
these guys who you think of as superstars, and I
think Jacoby Brissette has played well, certainly, but it's not
like Jacoby Rossette is a superstar quarterback. He was on
(37:36):
my long list. It was good. I didn't know there
was a long list. I mean kind sent me the
long list. Briv. He's but not way people's choage is
a legit number two NFL white out and I did
not see him at that level before this year, and
I think he's still pretty young. Of course, they're getting
an upgraded quarterback with Deshaun Watson. Granted he has not
looked very good to start this year, but hopefully next
(37:57):
year he'll be better. And I think he can be
like a legit starting NFL wide receiver that's pretty valuable
for a midground pick. Yeah, I did not see that coming, um,
but he has a good feel for spacing and making
big plays. And you've seen it in the return game
a little bit too with that touchdown. Uh, they found
(38:18):
something there. Receivers are so valuable these days. Um, I
almost feel like you just gotta take as many as
you can in the draft. It's kind of like the
old quarterback thing that I used to think take one
every year. Receivers, Now you should take one or two
every year. I think the Packers are are very happy
with their second and fourth round pick. Um. I'll wrap
it up with Jalen Phillips. I'm going double on the Daltons.
(38:41):
Gregg he was on the list. He was he was
number six on my list. I mean, how do I
you didn't say him though, you didn't say his name. Well,
I got one that's under one, and that's true. Jalen
Phillips and and Joshneiman were my two other guys earlier
in the show. That doesn't count. Um, the parade is mine.
(39:04):
Jalen Phillips was a guy last year who got all
these sacks and all the you know, supposedly smart people
would just noted like, well, he didn't actually have that
many pressures. I mean, me, I'm putting myself in the game.
It's like he didn't really have that many pressures and
he would get washed away in the running game. It's
like that's all fine now you look back at it.
That he has sixty pressures on this season, is playing
(39:28):
way more because they trust him and run defense and
has been playing good run defense. Uh, and just has instincts.
And then you look back at last year and you think, like,
maybe he just has good instincts for finishing plays, which
is valuable now that maybe that doesn't always translate. But
the fact that he went from year one, Okay, he
(39:48):
just got the sacks to year two he's doing it
all and he's getting the sacks is a great sign
because this year it's not it's not luck, but he's
certainly has a great nose forgetting and around tackles. He's
one of those guys and I love pastors rushers like
this that just don't get touched by the offensive lineman
barely sometimes, And those are the types of guys I want. Yeah,
(40:10):
And I mean, like Jollen Phillips had such a weird,
you know, disrupted career in college. He had to retire
he got hit by a car. I mean, he really
came back and and sort of just uh, you know,
kind of came out of that one year in Miami
to play at a high level and U and get
to the Dolphins. So it would make sense that he
would improve more than the typical player from year one
(40:32):
to year two. It would make sense that he's a
work in progress. So I'm not surprised he's made that growth.
I think he has that kind of upside and we're
seeing him deliver that more and more. And I mean
there are plays in games when you watch the Dolphins
where he is totally unblockable and he looks like the
best player on the field the last two weeks time,
I mean, I'm I'm definitely being a little recency by
(40:52):
and by us here. He has had a great season overall,
but the last two weeks he's taking it to another level.
And you're right, but the pre draft thing was like
he could be a little bit of a project, but
the highest upside and that it's proven. Right, You've got
the highest upside. Bill, you deserve all the parades. Uh
you wrote a great article on ESPN dot com today
(41:13):
about the quarterback situations. I'm jealous all the different potential
teams that could be changing quarterbacks. No, it is really
good analysis. Everyone should check it out on ESPN Plus.
And uh No, I'm just jealous because that's the type
of thing, you know, I wish I had written, but
Bill barn More, nothing stopping you. I'm not gonna assue
(41:34):
you if you write about quarterbacks and where they might go.
It's not my idea, that's true. I'm I'll save it
for January. Uh, and then it will be like slightly
different form, but it's probably coming maybe fas even just
just like underrated, just like that the most improved players.
(41:55):
That's the real answer, Bill. And it sounds like I'm
a blow hard, but that's what's getting in the way
all these podcasts that I'm doing so many. I didn't
even know that we already did most Improved. It's too many.
That's when you know you've done too many. It's a problem.
I think this was like a moment here, you know,
where we realize we have a problem. Oh you know what, Greg,
(42:18):
you have made a career out of your addiction and
that's what matters. That's that's a goal for ever. That
was a sound drop. Thank you Bill Barnwell for coming
on late night on the East Coast for rams Packers
and all the most improved and Uh, have a great Christmas, Bill,
thanks for joining me. Thank you, sir. Have great holidays
(42:40):
all right? For Bill Barnwell for Justin Graver. We'll be
back on Tuesday. We have Kyle lean Wolf in the studio.
Connor Or is going to join the show talk favorite
Hallmark Christmas movie is gonna be good. He had the
call se
Host
Gregg Rosenthal
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