May 13, 2025 • 43 mins
Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Nick Shook to draft the top-20 position groups in the NFL. Listen to find out where the guys ranked the Buccaneer's wide receivers (03:30), the Lions tackles (08:00), the Texans cornerbacks (13:50), the Lions running backs (19:00), the Chiefs quarterbacks (29:30), the Vikings wide receivers (35:40) and get the complete top-20 list.
Note: time codes approximate.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're never done building draft boards.
I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the garage, ready to talk
some football with one of my.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Favorite people to talk football with in the whole world.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
It's Nick Shook. Its ranking season Shook. Are you ready?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
I was born for this, Greg, and it happens to
be my birthday, so I'm just.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
Twice as ready to again.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
WHOA, I didn't know this that Happy birthday to Nick Schuck.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
What are you gonna do to celebrate?
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Go watch my nephew play baseball?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Okay, that's cool, family good stuff. Yeah, coach, I almost
feel bad making you work on your birthday, but this
is fun. I guess I did somewhat get into blogging
and writing about football and into the sport because I
like stupid stuff like offseason rankings. And so we're gonna
do this semi regularly in the off season. Maybe might
(00:55):
even be a Monday Morning drop every week doing some rankings.
And I thought we would start with an esoteric one.
We're going to do best position groups in the entire NFL.
We're just going to go back and forth picking who
we think best position group one to twenty, you know,
not too formal some rules here. We split up the
guards and tackles, like we decided offensive line that's not
(01:16):
a group.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Guards, that's a group.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Same with the edges and defensive tackles, cornerback safeties that
is a position group.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
And we're just going back and forth.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Gives us a chance to talk about like where teams
are the strongest in the entire league.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I'll just get us going.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
How about that, Nick, Let's do it, and this would
be in my mind because I am going top to
bottom the best position group in the entire NFL at
any position.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
I got a note, Greg before we start. I got
to stop you right there because those who are not
watching on YouTube need to watch because Greg has his best.
Less Sneed Look right now, he's got a little tan,
He's got a little.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Color in the skin.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
So if anybody's built to do this and crush it,
it's Greg less Sneed Rosenthal.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah. I wish, I wish I had the hair that
less Sneed had.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
You get pretty much?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Okay, I'm hanging out. Let's go with some guys. Do
they have good hair? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
The Eagles tackles position that is my number one position
group in the entire NFL. I just think if you
start with a surefire in my mind, first ballot Hall
of Famer Lane Johnson, still playing close to his very peak,
and then on the other side you have one of
the scariest individuals in the entire league, Jordan Milatta, who
(02:30):
has great pipes in addition to great hair. That was
a tough one to be like. I kept going through
other position groups. I was like, I think I would
take the Eagles tackles ahead of them, and then a
little extra sauce on the back end. They signed Kendall
Lamb in the offseason from the Dolphins, who quietly was
pretty decent for the Miami Dolphins, and I'm like, that's
(02:51):
a pretty good swing tackle. They drafted a couple guys
in the sixth seventh round this year, Miles Hinton and
Cam Williams, just for depth. In general, I lean more
towards the starters when I'm talking about the position groups,
but that gave them just a little bit of edge.
I don't think you get any better at the top
end in terms of starting positions at any position group
in the NFL than Jordan Mailatta and Lane Johnson.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
I like the inclusion of Kendall Lamb because I think
the depth of the position, you're going to see that
come up in quarterback later. I mean, we lean towards starters,
but if we're talking about groups, we're talking about strength
of the whole unit, right. And I also like the
nod to Kendall Lamb because that's one of my guys
that I got to know when he was with the Browns,
when I was with the Browns.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Good dude, all right, you got the second overall pick.
This is a lot of pressure.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Sure, it is a lot of pressure, and you just
took the best group off the board. And I don't
want to follow suits so closely, so I'm going to
go in a different direction.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
We're gonna go with the Buccaneers receivers.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Okay, that is number two, because if you look at
this group, you know what you have in Mike Evans,
you know what you have in Chris Godwin, even though
he's coming back from injury. But not only did they
get a great rookie year at a Jalen McMillan, but
then they went in and got the most polished receiver
in the draft in a Mecca Abuka. It is an
embarrassment of They even spent a seventh round pick on
a very small but explosive receiver in Tesz Johnson. You
(04:05):
got Stirlie Shepherd in there, who stepped in in a
big spot when they were heard at the position. I
love the depth, I love the top end potential with
this group, and of course Baker Mayfield throwing it to them.
That's the best receiver group in my opinion. It's not
the Bengals, it's the Buccaneers.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Wow, I disagree. I'm going to have the Bengals coming up.
I did have the Bucks on my list a little
lower because it gets into what we're looking for in
this exercise, and there's no right way to do it.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Do you want depth? Do you want like the best
three the best four?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Are you leaning towards the top where the Bengals, for instance,
would be a little heavier. But it is outrageous that Agbuka,
who felt like one of the safest picks in the draft.
We were just talking about the Cowboys picking up George
Pickens last week and we were thinking what a good
fit they could have taken Agbuca there at the twelfth
(04:54):
overall pick, and he immediately as a rookie to me
would have been exactly what they need.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
What any NFL team kind of needs.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
A guy who can block, who can play close to
the line of scrimmage, who can catch balls over the middle,
but his flexibility in his routes.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
And that's their third guy. They don't really need him
right away now.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
He might have a bigger role early in the season
because Chris Godwin is coming off that injury, but I'm
not factoring that injury into these rankings. The only reason
I put them just like slightly lower is, you know,
Godwin and Evans are their best days behind them. It
is a really deep group. It is clearly one of
the best receiver groups in the NFL. It's if it's
(05:30):
not number one, it's either two or three. But you know,
are their best days behind them. I think that Jalen
McMillan shout out is a good one, because man, that
guy was a big time scorer at the end of
last year. If he's their fourth receiver, he is the
best fourth receiver in the NFL right Either.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
If you swat McMillan or Abuca back and forth in
that top four, you're getting great production out of both
of them. And that's without even talking about you know,
Evans and what he brings to the table and what
Godwin looks like when he comes back. So I'm going
with with peak potential here with this, and I just
like the upside.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
I like that, and I guess I did lean a
little bit into positional value. And that's why with the
next pick, this is third overall, I'm taking the Steelers
edge group.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Okay, TJ.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Watt last year, on a per snap, per pressure basis,
by some metrics, was the third best pass rusher on
this team. They should maybe be unhappy they even felt
a three. Because if you've got a guy who's getting
votes for Defensive Player of the Year, and some metrics say,
there's two guys on your own team at your own
position that on a per snap basis are actually beating
(06:38):
their guy in front of them. Even more, that's an elite,
elite position. Alex Heismith is the man, Nick Herberg is awesome,
and so that is a really good one.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Two three.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
We'll see about Jack Sawyer, who fell to the fourth
overall pick. I also give the Steelers a little bit
extra here because of their history, just like they've always
been an elite edge group and they're still an elite
edge group. But yes, like Milatta in lane, Johnson at tackle,
I feel like every team in an ideal world has
(07:10):
three difference making edges has two difference making tackles that
they can just feel good about. And I do feel
that good about high Smith and her book. I think
they are that good. It'll be interesting to see if
they want to sign TJ. Watt long term because he's
got to cost a lot of money, or if they
don't sign her big long term eventually, but he is
a younger player.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Either way, it is just a loaded position for them.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah, there were some games late in the season where
Watt went without a sack and didn't really register a
statistic of note, and yet he was still making a
difference because that's who he is. He's a difference maker
in terms of pressures and everything else, and that is
your best. Gavitt's not the only guy. I love that
choice because of the depth that they have there. I
loved Alex high Smith since I saw him at the Combine.
Great to see him have a very productive NFL career.
Playing opposite TJ. Watt helps, of course, but he's a
(07:55):
beast as well, so very much on board with that pick.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
But I'm now going to.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Follow you in any way you start this draft, which
I'm gonna go back to tackles, and I'm gonna go
with the Detroit Lions who had the guts to go
draft Pinae Seol and say, you know, we're not gonna
make him a left tackle.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
We're actually gonna keep him.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
We're gonna put him on the right side because we
trust our left tackle in Taylor Decker that much. Now
you want to talk about depth here a little bit.
Dance Skipper often comes in as the sixth lineman. We've
seen him get interest, you know, involved in some creative plays.
Ben Johnson is gone, but I like the idea of
having a swing tackle is there. This is a proven group,
one of the best offensive lines in the NFL.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Last season.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
They've had some changes more on the interior, but the
guys that you rely on then you can trust, are
Taylor Decker, our Pine Sewol, and even a dance Skipper.
And that's why I love this group so much. I'm
gonna go there and maybe a little bit too high,
but now you know, and as I've said many times, Greg,
it starts and ends in the trenches.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
And I'm going with this tackle group if I can't
have the Eagles.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Just look how much money they're making.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
That I think is a solid barometer for these position groups.
I'm with you. They were in the top ten of
my big board. The fact that I had other tackles
ahead at that was probably I even had them down.
Dan Skipper just adding so much entertainment to our life.
The vindication that he got after you know, that rough
penalty that he had a couple of years ago, the
(09:10):
touchdown that Dan Skipper got. But I kind of keep
waiting for Taylor Decker to decline year after year, and
he doesn't. He's rock solid and sewell might be the
best right tackle in the entire league. They did spend
a draft pick last year on Giovanni Manu was a
developmental guy who hadn't played a lot of football. Sounds
(09:32):
like they're moving him to guard, so he doesn't quite
count for this exercise. And yes, we split up tackles
and guards, so it's more about just a specific position group.
That made me think about, like the Steelers, I'm not
going to draft him and you're welcome to if you want. Like,
I gotta taken their defensive tackles as another group, Like
if you just went if we were just going defensive line,
(09:54):
that would maybe be next year like their defensive line
or their front seven would would be. Except I'm going
Bengals wide receivers with my next pick. Okay, smart pick,
Jamar Chase and t Higgins. You look at the salaries
and it does feel crazy, but it's also a really
unique opportunity. What did the Eagles do when Devonte Smith
(10:17):
was contract extension eligible? They signed him right away because
at number two at that level is worth that much.
And I do think despite Higgins's injuries, he is at
that level. He's a top twenty five receiver in the league.
Chase is a top two receiver in the league to
me with Jefferson, and so the only question is, like
is the depth there?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
You know?
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Andre Yoshivas, a late round pick in his second year
four hundred and seventy nine yards, was good in the
red zone, six touchdowns. I do like him. He's an
OK three, he's not a plus three. He'll get you
buy three, but he might be getting better. And the
top two are just so good, Like we'll look back.
I feel like you're Bengals fans, especially will back on
(11:01):
this era as the Chase in the Higgins era.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
They're kind of the defining part of this team.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
I mean, obviously they benefit from the fact that they're
playing with Joe Burrow. That helps a whole lot, But
this is a group that's just talented on it.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Where does he benefit from the fact that he plays
with them? You know, it's like.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Mutual are beneficial. We're all on the same page here.
Everybody eats right in Cincinnati, and they kept everybody accordingly
and take a little bit of a pay cut here,
make sure everybody fits in so they can all stay.
So yeah, it's definitely the power of their team. It's
the backbone of the team. We especially saw that last
year when they had those defensive issues. And the hope is,
of course that they can tighten up a little bit
defensively so they can fully maximize the production that they
(11:38):
get from the Bengals passing game.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
But you know, we're gonna stay in the passing game.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
This is a position group here that if I was
thinking about constructing a roster, I would say, well, there's
a lot of depth, there's a lot of options. If
this is a fantasy football draft, I would save this
pick for later, just because there's so many quality options.
But I can't contain myself. I can't prevent myself from
just going after it right now. I'm going to tight Ends,
and I had a number of it's in this position.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Wo wow.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
The leader.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
The leader is the Baltimore Ravens, and it's Mark Andrews
and it's Isaiah Likely. And I wanted to go maybe
Bills or the upside with the Browns adding Harold Fann.
And even though it's a rookie and you don't really
know what you need, but I know what I get
out of the Ravens. I get a guy, and Mark Andrews,
who's saved for that playoff loss to the Bills, is
about as consistent as it gets as long as he's healthy.
And Isaiah Likely, who compliments him perfectly as well. They're
(12:25):
so balanced. They were a focal point of this passing
game for so long before they actually started to open
it up and get the receivers involved under Todd Monkin
as the offensive coordinator. And we've seen what's happened with
Rashad Bateman and Zay Flowers, but it all started with
the tight Ends initially. And I can rely on them
as the backbone of pass catchers even now, even if
the stats don't bear it out.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
In the last year.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
So this is a group that I just love to
put on paper and say, God, I'd love to run
twelve personnel with them because you can do so many
different things.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Absolutely, they fit where the NFL is right now. You know,
we just talked Bengals. The fact that they pay their
two wide receivers is a sign of like how the
receiver position has changed. And I think what you're saying
about the tight ends, how the league is trying to
get more flexible, which is playing tighter to the line
of scrimmage and likely is an archetype.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I think other teams are trying to get the only
pushback I'd have it.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
You know, Mark Andrews was available potentially this offseason, is
going to turn thirty right before the season starts. But
a case in your favor is they really trust Charlie
Kohler Kolar I don't even know how to say his name,
but he's out there in big spots. He's a good blocker,
and so you do. If you have those two guys
who are good pass catchers, you want the guy who
(13:31):
can come in and be a standout blocker. They were
the only tight end group I wrote down at all,
So on one level, not a crazy reach. On the
other level, was not in my personal top twenty, so
you could you definitely could have waited. I'm loading up
on defense, two sides of the ball. I'm loading up
(13:51):
on defense. The Houston Texans cornerbacks are next on my list.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
That was my next pick.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Okay, Defensive Player of the Year candidate last year, Derek
skin Stingley.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Did he get any votes.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
In the end late push, I don't know if he
got any votes, but he was.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Definitely the All Pro cornerback, so recognized as the second
best cornerback in the NFL. You know, obviously he was
behind Sertan who won Defensive Player of the Year, but
in his third year. So that is where you want
to start. A great young cornerback in Kamari Lassiter, who
was fantastic as a rookie. And this is a position
(14:29):
that goes up and down, so you got to prove
it year after year. But to come in and make
that big of a difference as a young player is outstanding.
And then I'm including Jalen Petrie in this group because
ultimately he was their nickelback last year. He's out there
in coverage. He essentially was playing cornerback. He can also hit.
And then the depth is crazy. They signed Ronald Darby
(14:50):
this offseason, who I know looked a little watched last year,
but he's kind of that perfect guy that bounces around
that you want as your fourth or your fifth, and
you don't necessarily want as your start in week one
like Jacksonville had him last year. Well, that's what he's
gonna be here, And then they might have reached for
this kid, Jalen Smith in the third round. I was
surprised that they took him. Was a surprise pick, but
it's just more depth that they took a first round
(15:13):
or rather a Day two pick on Jalen Smith. That
is just everything you want out of the cornerback position.
Some people are saying, this is a fantastic value that
they could have gone as high as almost number one.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Well, we love to hear that right after the draft,
even if it's a bit of a projection, because we're
all looking forward and we're trying to think, Okay, well,
how's this all gonna fit.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Can they get the most out of this. Yeah, I
love that pick.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
It pains me that I can't go there because I
haven't gone you know, heavy defense, That's where I was
gonna go. But I'm gonna stay on the offensive side
again here because trenches again. Now I'm building out the
interior and we're going to interior offensive line, and we're
going with the Pittsburgh Steelers, a team that had so
many issues there in previous years and yet they've nailed.
(15:57):
I think they are recent picks in the Zach Fraser
proved to be a good center, Mason McCormick a good guard,
and they get the free agent Isaac Samalo, who I
think is a quality veteran guard to fill that out.
That was not a problem for them anymore. It was
the way that the offense operated and what they had
at quarterback and how they didn't like their skill position.
Suddenly the Steelers offensive line went from being their biggest
(16:20):
problem to an afterthought, which is always good because as
an offensive lineman, the best feedback you can get is
no feedback at all, at least from the fan base
in those watching the games. So look, again, we're not
building teams, but in my mind I still kind of
build a team and I still start in the trenches,
so I go with them.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
That is a sign of the times how things have
changed that the Steelers could make a case for one
of the best interior offensive lines in the league. And
you're putting I think a lot of weight there on
Zach Fraser, and I think it's warranted. Ball knowers were
amazed at how well he played as a rookie, and
that's a tough position to play as a rookie and
(16:57):
to improve in. McCormick has a chance to improve as well.
And look, they have high draft picks on at tackle.
We'll see if their tackles can play as well. But
it is a different era right now in Pittsburgh that
they can feel some optimism about their offensive line for
the first time in a while. One thing, doing this exercise,
kind of writing down all the different possible options, you realize,
(17:20):
like what teams are a little loaded in. I had
the Lion's tackles like you high up there. I also
have the Lions safeties high up there. I'm going to
take them next. I mean, safety's a position people forget about.
But your batt and two for two, Kirby Joseph just
got a huge long term extension and was an All Pro.
And I don't think he's the best safety on the team.
(17:42):
I think Brian Branches, who to me got ignored weirdly
in the All Pro votes. Maybe it was like someone
was getting split between slot corner and safety. And I
know he faded in terms of ball production later in
the year, but he's just an awesome player. He's what
everyone would want as a safety. I think if you
ask the entire NFL to draft safeties right now, Branches
(18:04):
going top five, maybe top one on a lot of boards.
So to pair him with an All Pro, there's not
a ton of depth behind them, so you know, maybe
that prevented them from going even higher in this draft.
But I am taking them with the ninth overall pick
in our best position groups the Lions' safeties.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
You know, I think it's kind of hard to find
a good safety tandem, and I have a pick that
I'm going to make, not now, but later at that position.
That's a lot of projection. But one thing I never
was too worried about was whether Brian Branch would be
a good player in the NFL. And I think it
started with this tape in college. It continued with his
workout in Indianapolis where he was I think he might
have been working with the corners at some point, even
though he was clearly going to be a safety. And
(18:46):
so the production did not surprise me at all. And
a lot of people look at that Lions draft class
of now what two or three years ago, and they
scoffed at it and then included Sam Laporta and Brian
Branch and I want to say Gibbs was in that
group too, And now look at how they're all producing.
So we're going to keep it in Detroit. Here, we're
gonna go to the other side of the football. We're
going to running backs.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Now, in this era, we have kind of this dichotomy
of sorts. When you look at the way teams are constructed.
You have teams that have a clear bell cow or
you have teams that are clearly a committee backfield. And
the Lions are doing the perfect job of walking the
line between the two because they got a two headed
monster and David Montgomery and Jamior Gibbs. So that's my
next pick, Lions running backs. First running backs group off
(19:26):
the board might be the only one off the board,
but you cannot argue with production. You've got Montgomery, who's
the old school hammerback who also has big play potential.
You've got Gibbs who could be a three down back
who's incredibly explosive and can catch passes out of the
backfield and.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Make a huge difference as well.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
No group, I think, and the top two is better rounded,
just more complete than the Lions running backs.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
And we saw the product of that last year.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Plus they have that guy their third running back, who's
like a special teamer. And if you need like a
couple carries near the goal line or your first guys
are hurt, is going to work out for you. Craig
Reynolds like, that's just a classic, classic third I guess
every team or almost every team has one. But I
love that I sort of overlooked them. I love that pick,
and that's a reminder. We have three Lions position groups
(20:08):
in the ten overall best position groups in the entire NFL,
and it's not like any of the other positions really
on the team look like that big of a weakness.
I'm still buying linstock. I don't think their windows passed.
I don't think they should be anything but the highest
of favorites in the NFC. We're going to take a
quick break. That was our top ten position groups in
the NFL.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
We'll wrap up the rankings right after this.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Hey, it's Nick Shook's birthday. What else would he want
to do other than rank the best position groups in
the NFL.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
I'm really bad at accepting compliments and praise, so I
always get a little uncomfortable when somebody celebrates my birthday.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
But this works. You do it.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
How old are you, Shook? How old?
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Thirty three?
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Okay, Larry Bird, that's Larry Bird year. I think it's
got to be a big year for Shook. We're turning
the page, we're making things happen. The first year of
NFL Daily. We're almost at that anniversary, and Shook was
one of the very first people I texted and talked
to about it, and he's been just a huge part
(21:24):
of this podcast, but more importantly, just an awesome dude.
So I hope you have an awesome day and you
don't feel too bad that I'm drafting much better position
groups than you today.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Oh see, that's where you bring it back, because I
was getting a little uncomfortable with all the praise.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Then you just get a little jab in there, and
now we're back to.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
I do like my picks so far, and I'm going
to go a little off the board here. I don't
think we've had any defensive tackles. I'm going rams defensive tackles.
And this one snuck up on me going through the
interior defensive lineman list in the league. And I guess
it depends how you want to look at Braden Fist,
but to me, he's an interior player. Ultimately, so Kobe Turner,
(22:03):
who on pure production is one of the best defensive
tackles in NFL history in the first two years of
his career, just on pressures and production and consistently winning
his first two years, stack up with not quite the
very best of the best, like all type, but pretty close.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
It's crazy. You have Bradon Fisk who came in and
he does one thing really well, which is run through
your face. And you don't need a ton of moves
when you have that much power at the size he has.
It's just surprising.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
And then you add Punaford to the mix. I'm a
little worried they're counting on too much. I mean, this
is the guy who's bounced around and usually he's coming
in at a lower price, but is a underrated run
stopper and not a ton of crazy depth behind those three.
But man, that is a really good top three and
they all have very different skill sets. Nick, and so
I really like this Rams defensive tackle.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
And you know, he came into perfect time because as
soon as Aaron Donald retired, it was like, well, what
are they going to do now? They just lost their
best player, and yet they've kind of taken the old
moneyball as approach. We're just going to replace you with
guys who will combine to produce just about as much
in different ways. And that's what the Rams have been
since Aaron Donald retired. They haven't missed a beat there.
They end up making a deep playoff run. They get
to the divisional round of the playoffs, and a lot
(23:18):
of it is because of roster construction, and again starts
in the interior. Is this time it's on the defensive side.
But you love what they've gotten since Aaron Donald retired.
It's been a great job.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
All you have to do is like hit on four
straight day one and two.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
Yeah, you know, just nothing, no big deal, right, and have.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
A huge home run with like an all Pro receiver
on Day three, like it's very tough to do. But
they have invested on the defensive edge positions too. That
would have been an option, but they are not on
my list. The defensive tackles are all right, you're up
pick number twelve.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
I'm a little torn between this because some of it
is projection and another part of it is how many
guys can you collect? So we're going to start with
the Giants, and we're going to go with their edge
rushing group because look, a year ago around this time,
they were welcoming in Brian Burns and it was like, oh,
now they got the guy to mix with Cavon Thibodeau
and everything's going to be dandy on the edge for them.
Oh and then they just go and spend the third
(24:11):
overall pick on another edge rusher and Abdul Carter, a
guy that many thought would be the first overall pick
in this draft. And I think DJ for a long time,
if not by the final position rankings, had him ranked
as his best player in the entire draft, and they
got him at three. And then that mixes in with
what you already have in Thibodeau. And Brian Burns. Now,
the depth kind of falls off after that, but that's
a hell of a top three. And you want to
(24:32):
get rotational, you want to go Nascar package and move
one of those guys close to the interior to get
ultimate rushing capabilities on third down. You can do it now,
so it creates It's just interesting to me that I'm like,
all right, Joe Shane, how many guys are you going
to collect the position? But then again, you can never
have too many at such a valuable spot in the
NFL these days, which is getting after the passers. So
I love that group and I can't wait to see
(24:52):
them play because the Giants are in this weird position
now where they've thrown all the spaghetti at the wall
at quarterback to try to figure that out. And we
kind of know what we're going to get from their defense,
at least from their front seven. And the strength of
that is this edge Russian group plus Dexter Lawrence in
the interior.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
It's so good because you mentioned it.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
On passing situations, all those guys have have flexibility to
move inside. Burns is probably maybe the least likely, but
either way, Thibodeau can move inside like you can do
a lot. It's a stunt world that we're living in
and the flexibility that they're going to have. And I
kind of like Chauncey Golston as a D four. He
(25:28):
is a good player from the Cowboys who's a run stopper,
and so that's that's like a solid edge too.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
I'm with you. They were pretty much coming up right
away in.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
My list, and initially what I made it, they were
actually up there in like the top five, and then
I thought, I feel like, in the if you've got
to have a be in the top five, you got
to have like a true all pro or like no
doubt or multiple time pro bowler. And I think Carter
can get there, but that's a bit of a production.
Burns isn't quite at that level as an educat, so
(25:58):
I knocked him down just a little bit. But in
terms of just overall depth, that defensive line is absolutely awesome.
I'm going back to the defensive side of the ball.
I'm doing another cornerback room the Broncos. It's silly how
many players they're gonna throw out there. Patrick Sartan is
your defensive player of the Year. Kind of a surprising one.
In a way, but it was just a weird year
(26:19):
but was absolutely excellent. It was almost reminded me of
like how coaches of really good teams never win Coach
of the Year because they get ignored. And that's how
really good cornerbacks that don't have huge ball production tend
to get ignored. And by this time it didn't. Patrick
Shtan got it done. And then you look at the
guys after him, Riley Moss. I know the season didn't
(26:39):
end great for him after an injury, but he showed
he can be a good solid starter in the NFL
opposite him at cornerback too. But I wouldn't have put
them here if they hadn't drafted today Baron in the
first round because ja Kawan McMillan to me was a
plus nickel defender. The flexibility that they're going to have
now because Barron is essentially going to replace him, but
(26:59):
I think they're gonna end up moving these pieces around.
They play a lot of dime defense that they could
have four cornerbacks and one safety on the field when
it's a nickel defense and move them all around, like
this is what you want. Vance Joseph is going to cook.
I love this cornerback room.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Yeah, you know, if you kind of look at the
way that they approached safety, they went and got Talanoa Hufunga,
but they have Brandon Jones in strong safety. I thought
that they might actually be in the market for another
one outside of Hufunga. And the way that you describe
them going nickel and throwing a bunch of corners on
the field kind of explains how they could they could
approach that without needing to necessarily rely too much on
the safeties. The Broncos quarterbacks were actually gonna be my
(27:34):
next pick, but now I'm gonna go deep into that.
I think it was the first quarterback group I had
because I went by a position group listed there. But
I'm gonna go deep into the projection zone now, and
I think this is picking up some steam. I think
maybe Mina was talking about it among some other people
in recent weeks since the draft. But I love what
the Ravens have in safety right now. And of course
(27:55):
you know what you have in Kyle Hamilton, who you
know that everybody pays attention to, Derek Henry and Lamar
Jackson and even Rokwan Smith on the Ravens. But Kyle
Hamilton is a game changing safety. He is the athletic
freak that everybody thought you were getting out of Notre
Dame and then some playing in the perfect defense for him.
Then they're going to get Malachai Starks and add him
to this and create this tandem that I don't think
(28:16):
that everybody's quite prepared to understand what this could look
like because their biggest weakness, the reason they lost games
in the early and mid portion of the season last year,
was because they couldn't count on what they had at safety.
Opposite of Kyle Hamilton had Marcus Williams who was having
a rough go of things, and he wasn't the only
one back there in terms of veterans that they had
who didn't perform. Now you answer that hopefully with Starks
at safety, who you hope is going to work perfectly
(28:39):
with him. I think they're going to be a fantastic
duo and it's going to elevate this defense to an
even higher level. And we're just going to be spending
months talking about the Ravens again, and not just because
of Lamar and Derrick Henry.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yeah, the defense was the problem last year and we'll
see Starks is absolutely one of the most important rookies
in the league because of the position that he plays
for a really good team. Darius Washington had some moments
last year and is a nice depth bias, a guy
that was a college free agent but has gotten better
and better and adds dep I'd like that if I
(29:10):
was going to add another safety group, it probably would
have been the Texans man the Texans, like I could
have just done there. If we're just doing full secondaries,
that's the best secondary in the league. Their secondary might
be the best position group. But yeah, Cayden Bullock counting
Chauncey Gardner Johnson is there now in Jimmy Ward is
still with the Texans, So that's a great three man group.
That is not my next pick. All Right, it's time
(29:31):
to take a quarterback off the board.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
I think ah, I was gonna fall in the sword,
but I'm glad you are.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
I mean, any room with Patrick Mahomes, I feel like
it should be included in the best position group in
the league, as long as it's not the backups that
he's had the last few years, where it really like
you just thought they weren't going to have much of
a chance it was Carson Wentz or Buckley or whatever.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
It was a guy a couple of years ago, getting
see guy.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
But now it's.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Cardner Minshew, who I know was terrible with the Raiders,
but that was a rough situation. For the most part,
Gardner Minshew has been exactly what you would want out
of a backup quarterback. And you feel like if he
is in the right situation and Andy Reid and the
Chiefs is absolutely the right situation that he's going to
give you good production. And then just for laughs, Bailey
(30:20):
Zappy is there in the back. So you have, you know,
maybe the best quarterback.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Of all time.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
He's on that path, Patrick Mahomes, and you've got an
upper tier backup. I think Gardner Minshew is an upper
tier backup. His contract is not one. I mean they're
paying him like one or two million dollars this year.
It's crazy, but I mean look at his production as
a pro. I love my pick. I got, I got
Patrick Mahomes this late.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
I love my pick. Just taer pat herself on the
back of both hands.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I've been doing it. It's been happening throughout all right.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Do you have another quarterback room that's gonna make the
top twenty. You don't have to pick him in the
top twenty. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
We're like, no, no, I was.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Actually going to but I think that Kansas City is
kind of like what Alabama Ndernick Saban was for coaches
who'd been fired, which is like a safe space to
like rehabilitate your reputation with while knowing that you're probably
not going to have to see the field very much.
San Francisco was kind of like that in the last
couple of years. It worked for Sam Darnold, but I
think there's just a rare few clubs in the NFL
that have that privilege to give a guy who's got
(31:17):
NFL experience but kind of needs to spend a year
forgotten about by the rest of the league so he
can kind of, you know, reset, And I think that's
a perfect place for Gardner Minshew. I'm going to keep
it a quarterback. You know, I was tempted to go
Bengals here because what we saw from Jake Browning as
they made their playoff push a couple of years ago,
you know, essentially burnished his reputation as somebody who could
be a quality backup. Now, we didn't see him really
(31:38):
last year. But I like that group, but I'm going
to go somewhere else. And that's the same reason because
when you think about position groups, you think about depth.
We know what Jaden Daniels did as a rookie offensive
Rookie of the Year instantly transformed that franchise to the
point that now they're talking about building a new stadium
and everything else. But it's the presence of Marcus Mariota
back there as well. It's the perfect little complimentary piece
(31:59):
there where in case Jayden can't play, you have a
veteran who was a former top pick, who's bit in
the fire, who can get the job done, who could
throw you to a win in the last seconds against
the Cowboys in a game that doesn't even really mean
much to you. He can handle it all. He's a pro.
He's the perfect backup for a young guy like Jaden
who he understands what it's like to be in the spotlight.
I love that they just aren't relying on Jaden. They're
(32:22):
not a team that goes into the season he goes. God,
if we lose him, we're screwed. Well, no Marcus can
keep the ship afloat until Jayden can come back or
whatever if that were the case. Strength in numbers at
quarterback it's rare. You have a lot of superstars that
you think about, Hey, how are you missing Josh Allen
Will Mitch Trubisky's behind him and I don't have the
same confidence in him. It's a strength in depth and
that's why I like their situation.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
It was a limited sample size, but it was the
best I think Marcus Mariot has ever looked in his career.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
I mean, it was forty four. I try not to
get that's something.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
He did have a stretch in Tennessee where he did
he looked pretty good. It was only forty four terms,
so it's really not fair. But he did have four
touchdowns in those four forty four attempts, and he had
ten point nine adjusted yards per attempt, which would easily
lead the NFL. Didn't take sacks, you know, didn't make
(33:13):
too many mistakes, had a game winning drive, and it
wasn't just the numbers. If you go back and watch
like he had some dimes, some difficult throws down the field.
I was like, okay, Marcus Marietta, but what puts it
over the top for me?
Speaker 4 (33:24):
There?
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I think you had a good pick, you might have
had the better room overall is we got Josh Johnson
still in the league. Is on the Washington Commanders.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
Right now, forty years old, Josh McCown man.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Literally, no one has ever had a career in NFL
history like Josh Johnson, having to play in these other
leagues and never playing and bouncing around and keeping it
going until forty. You know, Props to Josh Johnson. I
hope he makes their final roster. All right, I've messed
around enough. I actually had the Eagles wide receivers in
my top five or six overall, but we've just gotten
(33:57):
wide receiver heavy and so I didn't want to go
back to him. But I mean, aj Brown and Devanta
Smith are on the same team, and Johan Dotson is
definitely the weak spot here, and the number four receiver,
whoever you want to call it, is the weak spot here.
But Johan Donson made some big plays during a Super
Bowl run. That alone is enough to be like, Okay,
(34:18):
I guess that third round pick that we traded for
him was worth it, because if you make like three
important plays for us on the way to winning a
Super Bowl, that's the whole point. Of playing the sport,
and he helped to do that. And I do think
with a full offseason there he can get a little better.
But to me, Aj and Devanta are arguably as good
as Chasing Higgins because I think the falloff from one
(34:39):
to two is not as severe. Devanta Smith is just
that good and aj Brown to me, is a top
five receiver.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
In the NFL. He would probably be number five if
I'm doing it.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Yeah, And I think style wise, they compliment each other
so well, which is a true test of the strength
of a position group is how well do you fit together.
So I love that pick as well. They were up
there for me. Now I feel like I'm just following
you in every direction, but I'm oh, oh, I also
want to note one more thing before I move on
to that down their depth chart. Hopefully he makes the roster.
One of my former favorites during the dark days in Carolina,
(35:11):
Terris Marshall. He's a guy that I felt never got
the opportunities when Carolina was going through guys. I just
want to see if he maybe sees the field that
if he's gonna make anything of his career, it could
be with them.
Speaker 4 (35:21):
If in you know, he gets called on.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
They do have a couple of guys.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
By the way, they took a Nia Smith and Johnny Wilson,
who's like the tallest wide receiver in the league.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Johnny Wilson that is in the Day three. Last year.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
You wouldn't have expected them to contribute as rookies, but
you know, just some guys to watch that they might.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Be in the cast this year. Johnny Wilson is like
a pillar in the red zone. Okay, let's go receiver again.
And like you said, we've been kind of screwing around
because come on down, Minnesota Vikings. Yeah, I mean, how
do we get to this point because of course we're trying.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
To not just pile on at receiver throughout this entire draft.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
But I mean, you know what you have in Justin Jefferson,
who's given up JJ the nickname to his quarterback. Now,
you know what you have in Jordan Adison, who I
think is one of the best number two receivers in
the NFL and has only proven that over the last year.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
You have Jalen Naylor.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Like I think that this group in itself just works
so well together. And then you mix in the involvement
of the tight ends. Like I thought that they were
gonna miss kJ Osborne a little bit last year. They
it was fine without him. I just think it's one
of the better passing games in the NFL, and a
lot of that is dependent on those top two receivers
who just continue to make plays. They made so many
plays with Sam Darnold last year and looking forward to
(36:26):
see how they fit with JJ McCarthy.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Yeah, they take a third round pick two in ty Felton,
who's maybe a yat guy with some speed who might
be replacing Naylor at least in the long run. They
brought in Rondell Moore, Like, that's a that's a deep group.
That's great value.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
This deep.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
I think we underrated the and if it is what
it is, if the best rooms are wide receiver rooms,
so be it. Jordan Addison, I don't know. I don't
know why he fell so far. I guess it was
the the like workout numbers and stuff. But he's just
a natural receiver. I'm going and we'll speed it up
to finish it out. I think we're at pick seventeen.
We're gonna go top twenty. I don't think I'm being
(37:03):
a homer putting the Patriots cornerbacks up here. Carlton Davis
is a big time free agent signing. He's obviously a
plus cornerback, a physical cornerback who, if he stays healthy,
would be the best cornerback on some teams, not most teams.
He's not a guy you probably want to be your
best cornerback, but you really love him as the number two.
And Christian Gonzalez is right there for me with Patrick
(37:26):
certan Ann Stingley as the best cornerback in the league.
I think he's that talented and he's that good. He's
just been stuck on the Patriots and it's a big
drop off after that, and that's why they go this late.
But to me that they might have the best top
two in terms of cornerbacks in the entire NFL. Marcus
Jones is a tryhard, undersized slot corner who probably right
(37:48):
now is the number three. I wouldn't be surprised if
they add like a veteran at some point. So it's
a big drop off after the top two, but I'm
gonna take him here.
Speaker 4 (37:56):
Yeah. Vermo de agree.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
I think that the addition of Davis takes some of
the pressure off of Gonzales as well, and ultimately he
just needs to stay healthy. That's what's most important for
his trajectory. Because he's an excellent cornerback. He just needs
to be on the field.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
So I like that pick. There's a little bit of
Homerism with saying they might have the best two corners
in the NFL. A little bit, just a little bit.
I'm gonna push you back.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
I stand by it. So it did sting me. Lassiter.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
It's certain And whoever you want to say is their
number two, Baron or Moss, you know, I think it's
in that mix.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Come on, yeah, I might, yeah, yeah. This is why
we play the games on the field, not on paper. Right, Okay,
we're going to go back to Detroit again. MotorCity, Detroit
Rock City. I'm Geene Simmons, lead singer a Kiss here
and I'm just gonna keep talking about the Motor City.
Speaker 4 (38:41):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
This is a group that I think is going to
fly under the radar because it might lack name recognition
because Aiden Hutchinson is the name that you recognize on
the edge. But for me, they're defensive tackles are among
some of the deepest in the NFL. And we talked
about this after the draft. I love their selection of
Tyler Williams, so I think is going to rise to
(39:02):
prominence and be a good player in the NFL.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
But you continue to go down this group.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
You've got DJ Reader, You've got Alee McNeil, you keep
Levi on Wuzourique. That's a great four, And I think
when it comes to constructing your defensive front, there are
so many injuries and things that happens on the defensive
interior that if you lose one or two guys and
you're not deep enough, suddenly it's a massive liability. I've
actually watched it with the Browns over the last couple
of years as they've tried to plug their gaps. The
Lions are setting themselves up for success and for stopping
(39:29):
the run with the death that they have and the
upside the potential of a guy like Tyler Williams to
make difference making plays in his rookie season. So that's
why I just feel so confident in this group among
many others.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
As we've already discussed.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
It's a slow developing position, but Alee McNeil has another
level to go. He can be an all pro type
player at leading the way it's extremely deep. I mean
to have Reader and Tyleek Williams on Rozouriki and then
they sign Roy Lopez was a guy from Arizona I
always liked just as a rotational guy. That is really deep.
That's a good pick.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
I'll stay at defensive tackle the Seahawks, and I guess
this will be my last pick. I think this is
nineteen Leonard Williams, John Reid, and Byron Murphy. I like
that group of interior players, the way that Leonard Williams
played last year. John Reid like he's only good when
he's on the Seahawks, but he is very good. And
then Byron Murphy is a young, improving player. I like
that group for Seattle. You wrap it up the twentieth
(40:23):
pick final.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
I'm really really conflicted here because do we talked, do
we talk textan safeties or no?
Speaker 1 (40:29):
I said they weren't going to make my list. Now
because we didn't, that's a possibility you could go there.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
I'm split between two and I think I'm going to
go in that direction just because I don't like the
vibes coming out of Buffalo regarding James Cook. I think
that they're undervaluing him. Unfit, So you're going to go
running running backs. I was because I love Ray Davis,
love me some Ray Davis. But we're gonna go safeties
because the top tier, you know, potential with these guys
and who they have at safety in Houston, I think
it's just they got They got a ton of production.
(40:57):
I think in spots from Kaylyn Bullock last yet strong safety.
They get cjdj at free safety. Like you mentioned before,
Jimmy Ward is also still on this roster. M J.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
Stewart seems like he's been there for years.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
I don't know why.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
They were collecting old browns like years ago, and a
lot of them just managed to stay on the roster.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
I just love this group.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
I love this group overall because of the potential to
make a difference and their depth now that they've added CJ.
Gardner Johnson as well, and it's in the back end
of a secondary that we've already discussed is incredibly strong.
Speaker 4 (41:24):
Alan like this is. It's a pass first league. You
want to shut it down, you do it like this.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
So the Texans get both their secondary groups in there.
The Lions get four groups total. If your team did
not get a position group on this list try harder,
you know, be better, or let us know. Let us
know if we overlooked you. Some honorall mentions. The Eagles
interior offensive line I think definitely could have been there.
Kim Jurgen's, Landon Dickerson a new starter, and Tyler Stein,
(41:50):
but they're good. The Bills running backs you mentioned because
James Cook. I love Ray Davis too, and ty Johnson's
a really good third down back man.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
I actually kind of feel bad we didn't mention them.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Uh, if we were looking for another tight end group
like the Raiders Michael Mayer and Brock Bauers, you got
Ian Thomas.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Maybe there's there's like unfulfilled potential with mayor there's unfulfilled
potential a couple of these groups. Or it's just like
as some changes, like the Eagles interior offensive line, like
is Tyler Stein going to be able to replace what
Mkai Beckton did?
Speaker 1 (42:16):
I love Keanu Bettan and Cam Hayward in Pittsburgh. I
kind of mentioned them a little earlier. I like the
Bucks tackles, Tristan Wurf's maybe the best in the game,
and Luke Getticky improved a lot so that that would
have been possible. I tell you, if the Jags, if
Travis Center is as good as I think he's going
to be, that wide receiver group, watch out that could be.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Hell.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
It's a little bit.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
It's a little early, but I love Brian Thomas that much.
Love you too, Buddy Shook. Enjoy the rest of your birthday.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
We did it.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
We determined on an off season day in May, the
best twenty position groups in the NFL.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
I'm so proud of us. Now I'm gonna go have
cake or something I don't know, go to the gym.
How else would I celebrate my birthday.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Our next show, we'll be with Jordan rod Rieg, Colleen
will Well back in the studio.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Look, when we're just ranking random things in the middle
of the off season, it's actually an argument that football
is not back. It's pretty quiet these days, but it'll
be back soon enough.
Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're never done building draft boards.
I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the garage, ready to talk
some football with one of my.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Favorite people to talk football with in the whole world.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
It's Nick Shook. Its ranking season Shook. Are you ready?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
I was born for this, Greg, and it happens to
be my birthday, so I'm just.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
Twice as ready to again.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
WHOA, I didn't know this that Happy birthday to Nick Schuck.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
What are you gonna do to celebrate?
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Go watch my nephew play baseball?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Okay, that's cool, family good stuff. Yeah, coach, I almost
feel bad making you work on your birthday, but this
is fun. I guess I did somewhat get into blogging
and writing about football and into the sport because I
like stupid stuff like offseason rankings. And so we're gonna
do this semi regularly in the off season. Maybe might
(00:55):
even be a Monday Morning drop every week doing some rankings.
And I thought we would start with an esoteric one.
We're going to do best position groups in the entire NFL.
We're just going to go back and forth picking who
we think best position group one to twenty, you know,
not too formal some rules here. We split up the
guards and tackles, like we decided offensive line that's not
(01:16):
a group.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Guards, that's a group.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Same with the edges and defensive tackles, cornerback safeties that
is a position group.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
And we're just going back and forth.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Gives us a chance to talk about like where teams
are the strongest in the entire league.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I'll just get us going.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
How about that, Nick, Let's do it, and this would
be in my mind because I am going top to
bottom the best position group in the entire NFL at
any position.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
I got a note, Greg before we start. I got
to stop you right there because those who are not
watching on YouTube need to watch because Greg has his best.
Less Sneed Look right now, he's got a little tan,
He's got a little.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Color in the skin.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
So if anybody's built to do this and crush it,
it's Greg less Sneed Rosenthal.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah. I wish, I wish I had the hair that
less Sneed had.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
You get pretty much?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Okay, I'm hanging out. Let's go with some guys. Do
they have good hair? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
The Eagles tackles position that is my number one position
group in the entire NFL. I just think if you
start with a surefire in my mind, first ballot Hall
of Famer Lane Johnson, still playing close to his very peak,
and then on the other side you have one of
the scariest individuals in the entire league, Jordan Milatta, who
(02:30):
has great pipes in addition to great hair. That was
a tough one to be like. I kept going through
other position groups. I was like, I think I would
take the Eagles tackles ahead of them, and then a
little extra sauce on the back end. They signed Kendall
Lamb in the offseason from the Dolphins, who quietly was
pretty decent for the Miami Dolphins, and I'm like, that's
(02:51):
a pretty good swing tackle. They drafted a couple guys
in the sixth seventh round this year, Miles Hinton and
Cam Williams, just for depth. In general, I lean more
towards the starters when I'm talking about the position groups,
but that gave them just a little bit of edge.
I don't think you get any better at the top
end in terms of starting positions at any position group
in the NFL than Jordan Mailatta and Lane Johnson.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
I like the inclusion of Kendall Lamb because I think
the depth of the position, you're going to see that
come up in quarterback later. I mean, we lean towards starters,
but if we're talking about groups, we're talking about strength
of the whole unit, right. And I also like the
nod to Kendall Lamb because that's one of my guys
that I got to know when he was with the Browns,
when I was with the Browns.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Good dude, all right, you got the second overall pick.
This is a lot of pressure.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Sure, it is a lot of pressure, and you just
took the best group off the board. And I don't
want to follow suits so closely, so I'm going to
go in a different direction.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
We're gonna go with the Buccaneers receivers.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Okay, that is number two, because if you look at
this group, you know what you have in Mike Evans,
you know what you have in Chris Godwin, even though
he's coming back from injury. But not only did they
get a great rookie year at a Jalen McMillan, but
then they went in and got the most polished receiver
in the draft in a Mecca Abuka. It is an
embarrassment of They even spent a seventh round pick on
a very small but explosive receiver in Tesz Johnson. You
(04:05):
got Stirlie Shepherd in there, who stepped in in a
big spot when they were heard at the position. I
love the depth, I love the top end potential with
this group, and of course Baker Mayfield throwing it to them.
That's the best receiver group in my opinion. It's not
the Bengals, it's the Buccaneers.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Wow, I disagree. I'm going to have the Bengals coming up.
I did have the Bucks on my list a little
lower because it gets into what we're looking for in
this exercise, and there's no right way to do it.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Do you want depth? Do you want like the best
three the best four?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Are you leaning towards the top where the Bengals, for instance,
would be a little heavier. But it is outrageous that Agbuka,
who felt like one of the safest picks in the draft.
We were just talking about the Cowboys picking up George
Pickens last week and we were thinking what a good
fit they could have taken Agbuca there at the twelfth
(04:54):
overall pick, and he immediately as a rookie to me
would have been exactly what they need.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
What any NFL team kind of needs.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
A guy who can block, who can play close to
the line of scrimmage, who can catch balls over the middle,
but his flexibility in his routes.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
And that's their third guy. They don't really need him
right away now.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
He might have a bigger role early in the season
because Chris Godwin is coming off that injury, but I'm
not factoring that injury into these rankings. The only reason
I put them just like slightly lower is, you know,
Godwin and Evans are their best days behind them. It
is a really deep group. It is clearly one of
the best receiver groups in the NFL. It's if it's
(05:30):
not number one, it's either two or three. But you know,
are their best days behind them. I think that Jalen
McMillan shout out is a good one, because man, that
guy was a big time scorer at the end of
last year. If he's their fourth receiver, he is the
best fourth receiver in the NFL right Either.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
If you swat McMillan or Abuca back and forth in
that top four, you're getting great production out of both
of them. And that's without even talking about you know,
Evans and what he brings to the table and what
Godwin looks like when he comes back. So I'm going
with with peak potential here with this, and I just
like the upside.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
I like that, and I guess I did lean a
little bit into positional value. And that's why with the
next pick, this is third overall, I'm taking the Steelers
edge group.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Okay, TJ.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Watt last year, on a per snap, per pressure basis,
by some metrics, was the third best pass rusher on
this team. They should maybe be unhappy they even felt
a three. Because if you've got a guy who's getting
votes for Defensive Player of the Year, and some metrics say,
there's two guys on your own team at your own
position that on a per snap basis are actually beating
(06:38):
their guy in front of them. Even more, that's an elite,
elite position. Alex Heismith is the man, Nick Herberg is awesome,
and so that is a really good one.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Two three.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
We'll see about Jack Sawyer, who fell to the fourth
overall pick. I also give the Steelers a little bit
extra here because of their history, just like they've always
been an elite edge group and they're still an elite
edge group. But yes, like Milatta in lane, Johnson at tackle,
I feel like every team in an ideal world has
(07:10):
three difference making edges has two difference making tackles that
they can just feel good about. And I do feel
that good about high Smith and her book. I think
they are that good. It'll be interesting to see if
they want to sign TJ. Watt long term because he's
got to cost a lot of money, or if they
don't sign her big long term eventually, but he is
a younger player.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Either way, it is just a loaded position for them.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah, there were some games late in the season where
Watt went without a sack and didn't really register a
statistic of note, and yet he was still making a
difference because that's who he is. He's a difference maker
in terms of pressures and everything else, and that is
your best. Gavitt's not the only guy. I love that
choice because of the depth that they have there. I
loved Alex high Smith since I saw him at the Combine.
Great to see him have a very productive NFL career.
Playing opposite TJ. Watt helps, of course, but he's a
(07:55):
beast as well, so very much on board with that pick.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
But I'm now going to.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Follow you in any way you start this draft, which
I'm gonna go back to tackles, and I'm gonna go
with the Detroit Lions who had the guts to go
draft Pinae Seol and say, you know, we're not gonna
make him a left tackle.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
We're actually gonna keep him.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
We're gonna put him on the right side because we
trust our left tackle in Taylor Decker that much. Now
you want to talk about depth here a little bit.
Dance Skipper often comes in as the sixth lineman. We've
seen him get interest, you know, involved in some creative plays.
Ben Johnson is gone, but I like the idea of
having a swing tackle is there. This is a proven group,
one of the best offensive lines in the NFL.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Last season.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
They've had some changes more on the interior, but the
guys that you rely on then you can trust, are
Taylor Decker, our Pine Sewol, and even a dance Skipper.
And that's why I love this group so much. I'm
gonna go there and maybe a little bit too high,
but now you know, and as I've said many times, Greg,
it starts and ends in the trenches.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
And I'm going with this tackle group if I can't
have the Eagles.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Just look how much money they're making.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
That I think is a solid barometer for these position groups.
I'm with you. They were in the top ten of
my big board. The fact that I had other tackles
ahead at that was probably I even had them down.
Dan Skipper just adding so much entertainment to our life.
The vindication that he got after you know, that rough
penalty that he had a couple of years ago, the
(09:10):
touchdown that Dan Skipper got. But I kind of keep
waiting for Taylor Decker to decline year after year, and
he doesn't. He's rock solid and sewell might be the
best right tackle in the entire league. They did spend
a draft pick last year on Giovanni Manu was a
developmental guy who hadn't played a lot of football. Sounds
(09:32):
like they're moving him to guard, so he doesn't quite
count for this exercise. And yes, we split up tackles
and guards, so it's more about just a specific position group.
That made me think about, like the Steelers, I'm not
going to draft him and you're welcome to if you want. Like,
I gotta taken their defensive tackles as another group, Like
if you just went if we were just going defensive line,
(09:54):
that would maybe be next year like their defensive line
or their front seven would would be. Except I'm going
Bengals wide receivers with my next pick. Okay, smart pick,
Jamar Chase and t Higgins. You look at the salaries
and it does feel crazy, but it's also a really
unique opportunity. What did the Eagles do when Devonte Smith
(10:17):
was contract extension eligible? They signed him right away because
at number two at that level is worth that much.
And I do think despite Higgins's injuries, he is at
that level. He's a top twenty five receiver in the league.
Chase is a top two receiver in the league to
me with Jefferson, and so the only question is, like
is the depth there?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
You know?
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Andre Yoshivas, a late round pick in his second year
four hundred and seventy nine yards, was good in the
red zone, six touchdowns. I do like him. He's an
OK three, he's not a plus three. He'll get you
buy three, but he might be getting better. And the
top two are just so good, Like we'll look back.
I feel like you're Bengals fans, especially will back on
(11:01):
this era as the Chase in the Higgins era.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
They're kind of the defining part of this team.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
I mean, obviously they benefit from the fact that they're
playing with Joe Burrow. That helps a whole lot, But
this is a group that's just talented on it.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Where does he benefit from the fact that he plays
with them? You know, it's like.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Mutual are beneficial. We're all on the same page here.
Everybody eats right in Cincinnati, and they kept everybody accordingly
and take a little bit of a pay cut here,
make sure everybody fits in so they can all stay.
So yeah, it's definitely the power of their team. It's
the backbone of the team. We especially saw that last
year when they had those defensive issues. And the hope is,
of course that they can tighten up a little bit
defensively so they can fully maximize the production that they
(11:38):
get from the Bengals passing game.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
But you know, we're gonna stay in the passing game.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
This is a position group here that if I was
thinking about constructing a roster, I would say, well, there's
a lot of depth, there's a lot of options. If
this is a fantasy football draft, I would save this
pick for later, just because there's so many quality options.
But I can't contain myself. I can't prevent myself from
just going after it right now. I'm going to tight Ends,
and I had a number of it's in this position.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Wo wow.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
The leader.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
The leader is the Baltimore Ravens, and it's Mark Andrews
and it's Isaiah Likely. And I wanted to go maybe
Bills or the upside with the Browns adding Harold Fann.
And even though it's a rookie and you don't really
know what you need, but I know what I get
out of the Ravens. I get a guy, and Mark Andrews,
who's saved for that playoff loss to the Bills, is
about as consistent as it gets as long as he's healthy.
And Isaiah Likely, who compliments him perfectly as well. They're
(12:25):
so balanced. They were a focal point of this passing
game for so long before they actually started to open
it up and get the receivers involved under Todd Monkin
as the offensive coordinator. And we've seen what's happened with
Rashad Bateman and Zay Flowers, but it all started with
the tight Ends initially. And I can rely on them
as the backbone of pass catchers even now, even if
the stats don't bear it out.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
In the last year.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
So this is a group that I just love to
put on paper and say, God, I'd love to run
twelve personnel with them because you can do so many
different things.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Absolutely, they fit where the NFL is right now. You know,
we just talked Bengals. The fact that they pay their
two wide receivers is a sign of like how the
receiver position has changed. And I think what you're saying
about the tight ends, how the league is trying to
get more flexible, which is playing tighter to the line
of scrimmage and likely is an archetype.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I think other teams are trying to get the only
pushback I'd have it.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
You know, Mark Andrews was available potentially this offseason, is
going to turn thirty right before the season starts. But
a case in your favor is they really trust Charlie
Kohler Kolar I don't even know how to say his name,
but he's out there in big spots. He's a good blocker,
and so you do. If you have those two guys
who are good pass catchers, you want the guy who
(13:31):
can come in and be a standout blocker. They were
the only tight end group I wrote down at all,
So on one level, not a crazy reach. On the
other level, was not in my personal top twenty, so
you could you definitely could have waited. I'm loading up
on defense, two sides of the ball. I'm loading up
(13:51):
on defense. The Houston Texans cornerbacks are next on my list.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
That was my next pick.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Okay, Defensive Player of the Year candidate last year, Derek
skin Stingley.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Did he get any votes.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
In the end late push, I don't know if he
got any votes, but he was.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Definitely the All Pro cornerback, so recognized as the second
best cornerback in the NFL. You know, obviously he was
behind Sertan who won Defensive Player of the Year, but
in his third year. So that is where you want
to start. A great young cornerback in Kamari Lassiter, who
was fantastic as a rookie. And this is a position
(14:29):
that goes up and down, so you got to prove
it year after year. But to come in and make
that big of a difference as a young player is outstanding.
And then I'm including Jalen Petrie in this group because
ultimately he was their nickelback last year. He's out there
in coverage. He essentially was playing cornerback. He can also hit.
And then the depth is crazy. They signed Ronald Darby
(14:50):
this offseason, who I know looked a little watched last year,
but he's kind of that perfect guy that bounces around
that you want as your fourth or your fifth, and
you don't necessarily want as your start in week one
like Jacksonville had him last year. Well, that's what he's
gonna be here, And then they might have reached for
this kid, Jalen Smith in the third round. I was
surprised that they took him. Was a surprise pick, but
it's just more depth that they took a first round
(15:13):
or rather a Day two pick on Jalen Smith. That
is just everything you want out of the cornerback position.
Some people are saying, this is a fantastic value that
they could have gone as high as almost number one.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Well, we love to hear that right after the draft,
even if it's a bit of a projection, because we're
all looking forward and we're trying to think, Okay, well,
how's this all gonna fit.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Can they get the most out of this. Yeah, I
love that pick.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
It pains me that I can't go there because I
haven't gone you know, heavy defense, That's where I was
gonna go. But I'm gonna stay on the offensive side
again here because trenches again. Now I'm building out the
interior and we're going to interior offensive line, and we're
going with the Pittsburgh Steelers, a team that had so
many issues there in previous years and yet they've nailed.
(15:57):
I think they are recent picks in the Zach Fraser
proved to be a good center, Mason McCormick a good guard,
and they get the free agent Isaac Samalo, who I
think is a quality veteran guard to fill that out.
That was not a problem for them anymore. It was
the way that the offense operated and what they had
at quarterback and how they didn't like their skill position.
Suddenly the Steelers offensive line went from being their biggest
(16:20):
problem to an afterthought, which is always good because as
an offensive lineman, the best feedback you can get is
no feedback at all, at least from the fan base
in those watching the games. So look, again, we're not
building teams, but in my mind I still kind of
build a team and I still start in the trenches,
so I go with them.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
That is a sign of the times how things have
changed that the Steelers could make a case for one
of the best interior offensive lines in the league. And
you're putting I think a lot of weight there on
Zach Fraser, and I think it's warranted. Ball knowers were
amazed at how well he played as a rookie, and
that's a tough position to play as a rookie and
(16:57):
to improve in. McCormick has a chance to improve as well.
And look, they have high draft picks on at tackle.
We'll see if their tackles can play as well. But
it is a different era right now in Pittsburgh that
they can feel some optimism about their offensive line for
the first time in a while. One thing, doing this exercise,
kind of writing down all the different possible options, you realize,
(17:20):
like what teams are a little loaded in. I had
the Lion's tackles like you high up there. I also
have the Lions safeties high up there. I'm going to
take them next. I mean, safety's a position people forget about.
But your batt and two for two, Kirby Joseph just
got a huge long term extension and was an All Pro.
And I don't think he's the best safety on the team.
(17:42):
I think Brian Branches, who to me got ignored weirdly
in the All Pro votes. Maybe it was like someone
was getting split between slot corner and safety. And I
know he faded in terms of ball production later in
the year, but he's just an awesome player. He's what
everyone would want as a safety. I think if you
ask the entire NFL to draft safeties right now, Branches
(18:04):
going top five, maybe top one on a lot of boards.
So to pair him with an All Pro, there's not
a ton of depth behind them, so you know, maybe
that prevented them from going even higher in this draft.
But I am taking them with the ninth overall pick
in our best position groups the Lions' safeties.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
You know, I think it's kind of hard to find
a good safety tandem, and I have a pick that
I'm going to make, not now, but later at that position.
That's a lot of projection. But one thing I never
was too worried about was whether Brian Branch would be
a good player in the NFL. And I think it
started with this tape in college. It continued with his
workout in Indianapolis where he was I think he might
have been working with the corners at some point, even
though he was clearly going to be a safety. And
(18:46):
so the production did not surprise me at all. And
a lot of people look at that Lions draft class
of now what two or three years ago, and they
scoffed at it and then included Sam Laporta and Brian
Branch and I want to say Gibbs was in that
group too, And now look at how they're all producing.
So we're going to keep it in Detroit. Here, we're
gonna go to the other side of the football. We're
going to running backs.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Now, in this era, we have kind of this dichotomy
of sorts. When you look at the way teams are constructed.
You have teams that have a clear bell cow or
you have teams that are clearly a committee backfield. And
the Lions are doing the perfect job of walking the
line between the two because they got a two headed
monster and David Montgomery and Jamior Gibbs. So that's my
next pick, Lions running backs. First running backs group off
(19:26):
the board might be the only one off the board,
but you cannot argue with production. You've got Montgomery, who's
the old school hammerback who also has big play potential.
You've got Gibbs who could be a three down back
who's incredibly explosive and can catch passes out of the
backfield and.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Make a huge difference as well.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
No group, I think, and the top two is better rounded,
just more complete than the Lions running backs.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
And we saw the product of that last year.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Plus they have that guy their third running back, who's
like a special teamer. And if you need like a
couple carries near the goal line or your first guys
are hurt, is going to work out for you. Craig
Reynolds like, that's just a classic, classic third I guess
every team or almost every team has one. But I
love that I sort of overlooked them. I love that pick,
and that's a reminder. We have three Lions position groups
(20:08):
in the ten overall best position groups in the entire NFL,
and it's not like any of the other positions really
on the team look like that big of a weakness.
I'm still buying linstock. I don't think their windows passed.
I don't think they should be anything but the highest
of favorites in the NFC. We're going to take a
quick break. That was our top ten position groups in
the NFL.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
We'll wrap up the rankings right after this.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Hey, it's Nick Shook's birthday. What else would he want
to do other than rank the best position groups in
the NFL.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
I'm really bad at accepting compliments and praise, so I
always get a little uncomfortable when somebody celebrates my birthday.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
But this works. You do it.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
How old are you, Shook? How old?
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Thirty three?
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Okay, Larry Bird, that's Larry Bird year. I think it's
got to be a big year for Shook. We're turning
the page, we're making things happen. The first year of
NFL Daily. We're almost at that anniversary, and Shook was
one of the very first people I texted and talked
to about it, and he's been just a huge part
(21:24):
of this podcast, but more importantly, just an awesome dude.
So I hope you have an awesome day and you
don't feel too bad that I'm drafting much better position
groups than you today.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Oh see, that's where you bring it back, because I
was getting a little uncomfortable with all the praise.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Then you just get a little jab in there, and
now we're back to.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
I do like my picks so far, and I'm going
to go a little off the board here. I don't
think we've had any defensive tackles. I'm going rams defensive tackles.
And this one snuck up on me going through the
interior defensive lineman list in the league. And I guess
it depends how you want to look at Braden Fist,
but to me, he's an interior player. Ultimately, so Kobe Turner,
(22:03):
who on pure production is one of the best defensive
tackles in NFL history in the first two years of
his career, just on pressures and production and consistently winning
his first two years, stack up with not quite the
very best of the best, like all type, but pretty close.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
It's crazy. You have Bradon Fisk who came in and
he does one thing really well, which is run through
your face. And you don't need a ton of moves
when you have that much power at the size he has.
It's just surprising.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
And then you add Punaford to the mix. I'm a
little worried they're counting on too much. I mean, this
is the guy who's bounced around and usually he's coming
in at a lower price, but is a underrated run
stopper and not a ton of crazy depth behind those three.
But man, that is a really good top three and
they all have very different skill sets. Nick, and so
I really like this Rams defensive tackle.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
And you know, he came into perfect time because as
soon as Aaron Donald retired, it was like, well, what
are they going to do now? They just lost their
best player, and yet they've kind of taken the old
moneyball as approach. We're just going to replace you with
guys who will combine to produce just about as much
in different ways. And that's what the Rams have been
since Aaron Donald retired. They haven't missed a beat there.
They end up making a deep playoff run. They get
to the divisional round of the playoffs, and a lot
(23:18):
of it is because of roster construction, and again starts
in the interior. Is this time it's on the defensive side.
But you love what they've gotten since Aaron Donald retired.
It's been a great job.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
All you have to do is like hit on four
straight day one and two.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
Yeah, you know, just nothing, no big deal, right, and have.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
A huge home run with like an all Pro receiver
on Day three, like it's very tough to do. But
they have invested on the defensive edge positions too. That
would have been an option, but they are not on
my list. The defensive tackles are all right, you're up
pick number twelve.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
I'm a little torn between this because some of it
is projection and another part of it is how many
guys can you collect? So we're going to start with
the Giants, and we're going to go with their edge
rushing group because look, a year ago around this time,
they were welcoming in Brian Burns and it was like, oh,
now they got the guy to mix with Cavon Thibodeau
and everything's going to be dandy on the edge for them.
Oh and then they just go and spend the third
(24:11):
overall pick on another edge rusher and Abdul Carter, a
guy that many thought would be the first overall pick
in this draft. And I think DJ for a long time,
if not by the final position rankings, had him ranked
as his best player in the entire draft, and they
got him at three. And then that mixes in with
what you already have in Thibodeau. And Brian Burns. Now,
the depth kind of falls off after that, but that's
a hell of a top three. And you want to
(24:32):
get rotational, you want to go Nascar package and move
one of those guys close to the interior to get
ultimate rushing capabilities on third down. You can do it now,
so it creates It's just interesting to me that I'm like,
all right, Joe Shane, how many guys are you going
to collect the position? But then again, you can never
have too many at such a valuable spot in the
NFL these days, which is getting after the passers. So
I love that group and I can't wait to see
(24:52):
them play because the Giants are in this weird position
now where they've thrown all the spaghetti at the wall
at quarterback to try to figure that out. And we
kind of know what we're going to get from their defense,
at least from their front seven. And the strength of
that is this edge Russian group plus Dexter Lawrence in
the interior.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
It's so good because you mentioned it.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
On passing situations, all those guys have have flexibility to
move inside. Burns is probably maybe the least likely, but
either way, Thibodeau can move inside like you can do
a lot. It's a stunt world that we're living in
and the flexibility that they're going to have. And I
kind of like Chauncey Golston as a D four. He
(25:28):
is a good player from the Cowboys who's a run stopper,
and so that's that's like a solid edge too.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
I'm with you. They were pretty much coming up right
away in.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
My list, and initially what I made it, they were
actually up there in like the top five, and then
I thought, I feel like, in the if you've got
to have a be in the top five, you got
to have like a true all pro or like no
doubt or multiple time pro bowler. And I think Carter
can get there, but that's a bit of a production.
Burns isn't quite at that level as an educat, so
(25:58):
I knocked him down just a little bit. But in
terms of just overall depth, that defensive line is absolutely awesome.
I'm going back to the defensive side of the ball.
I'm doing another cornerback room the Broncos. It's silly how
many players they're gonna throw out there. Patrick Sartan is
your defensive player of the Year. Kind of a surprising one.
In a way, but it was just a weird year
(26:19):
but was absolutely excellent. It was almost reminded me of
like how coaches of really good teams never win Coach
of the Year because they get ignored. And that's how
really good cornerbacks that don't have huge ball production tend
to get ignored. And by this time it didn't. Patrick
Shtan got it done. And then you look at the
guys after him, Riley Moss. I know the season didn't
(26:39):
end great for him after an injury, but he showed
he can be a good solid starter in the NFL
opposite him at cornerback too. But I wouldn't have put
them here if they hadn't drafted today Baron in the
first round because ja Kawan McMillan to me was a
plus nickel defender. The flexibility that they're going to have
now because Barron is essentially going to replace him, but
(26:59):
I think they're gonna end up moving these pieces around.
They play a lot of dime defense that they could
have four cornerbacks and one safety on the field when
it's a nickel defense and move them all around, like
this is what you want. Vance Joseph is going to cook.
I love this cornerback room.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Yeah, you know, if you kind of look at the
way that they approached safety, they went and got Talanoa Hufunga,
but they have Brandon Jones in strong safety. I thought
that they might actually be in the market for another
one outside of Hufunga. And the way that you describe
them going nickel and throwing a bunch of corners on
the field kind of explains how they could they could
approach that without needing to necessarily rely too much on
the safeties. The Broncos quarterbacks were actually gonna be my
(27:34):
next pick, but now I'm gonna go deep into that.
I think it was the first quarterback group I had
because I went by a position group listed there. But
I'm gonna go deep into the projection zone now, and
I think this is picking up some steam. I think
maybe Mina was talking about it among some other people
in recent weeks since the draft. But I love what
the Ravens have in safety right now. And of course
(27:55):
you know what you have in Kyle Hamilton, who you
know that everybody pays attention to, Derek Henry and Lamar
Jackson and even Rokwan Smith on the Ravens. But Kyle
Hamilton is a game changing safety. He is the athletic
freak that everybody thought you were getting out of Notre
Dame and then some playing in the perfect defense for him.
Then they're going to get Malachai Starks and add him
to this and create this tandem that I don't think
(28:16):
that everybody's quite prepared to understand what this could look
like because their biggest weakness, the reason they lost games
in the early and mid portion of the season last year,
was because they couldn't count on what they had at safety.
Opposite of Kyle Hamilton had Marcus Williams who was having
a rough go of things, and he wasn't the only
one back there in terms of veterans that they had
who didn't perform. Now you answer that hopefully with Starks
at safety, who you hope is going to work perfectly
(28:39):
with him. I think they're going to be a fantastic
duo and it's going to elevate this defense to an
even higher level. And we're just going to be spending
months talking about the Ravens again, and not just because
of Lamar and Derrick Henry.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yeah, the defense was the problem last year and we'll
see Starks is absolutely one of the most important rookies
in the league because of the position that he plays
for a really good team. Darius Washington had some moments
last year and is a nice depth bias, a guy
that was a college free agent but has gotten better
and better and adds dep I'd like that if I
(29:10):
was going to add another safety group, it probably would
have been the Texans man the Texans, like I could
have just done there. If we're just doing full secondaries,
that's the best secondary in the league. Their secondary might
be the best position group. But yeah, Cayden Bullock counting
Chauncey Gardner Johnson is there now in Jimmy Ward is
still with the Texans, So that's a great three man group.
That is not my next pick. All Right, it's time
(29:31):
to take a quarterback off the board.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
I think ah, I was gonna fall in the sword,
but I'm glad you are.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
I mean, any room with Patrick Mahomes, I feel like
it should be included in the best position group in
the league, as long as it's not the backups that
he's had the last few years, where it really like
you just thought they weren't going to have much of
a chance it was Carson Wentz or Buckley or whatever.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
It was a guy a couple of years ago, getting
see guy.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
But now it's.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Cardner Minshew, who I know was terrible with the Raiders,
but that was a rough situation. For the most part,
Gardner Minshew has been exactly what you would want out
of a backup quarterback. And you feel like if he
is in the right situation and Andy Reid and the
Chiefs is absolutely the right situation that he's going to
give you good production. And then just for laughs, Bailey
(30:20):
Zappy is there in the back. So you have, you know,
maybe the best quarterback.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Of all time.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
He's on that path, Patrick Mahomes, and you've got an
upper tier backup. I think Gardner Minshew is an upper
tier backup. His contract is not one. I mean they're
paying him like one or two million dollars this year.
It's crazy, but I mean look at his production as
a pro. I love my pick. I got, I got
Patrick Mahomes this late.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
I love my pick. Just taer pat herself on the
back of both hands.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I've been doing it. It's been happening throughout all right.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Do you have another quarterback room that's gonna make the
top twenty. You don't have to pick him in the
top twenty. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
We're like, no, no, I was.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Actually going to but I think that Kansas City is
kind of like what Alabama Ndernick Saban was for coaches
who'd been fired, which is like a safe space to
like rehabilitate your reputation with while knowing that you're probably
not going to have to see the field very much.
San Francisco was kind of like that in the last
couple of years. It worked for Sam Darnold, but I
think there's just a rare few clubs in the NFL
that have that privilege to give a guy who's got
(31:17):
NFL experience but kind of needs to spend a year
forgotten about by the rest of the league so he
can kind of, you know, reset, And I think that's
a perfect place for Gardner Minshew. I'm going to keep
it a quarterback. You know, I was tempted to go
Bengals here because what we saw from Jake Browning as
they made their playoff push a couple of years ago,
you know, essentially burnished his reputation as somebody who could
be a quality backup. Now, we didn't see him really
(31:38):
last year. But I like that group, but I'm going
to go somewhere else. And that's the same reason because
when you think about position groups, you think about depth.
We know what Jaden Daniels did as a rookie offensive
Rookie of the Year instantly transformed that franchise to the
point that now they're talking about building a new stadium
and everything else. But it's the presence of Marcus Mariota
back there as well. It's the perfect little complimentary piece
(31:59):
there where in case Jayden can't play, you have a
veteran who was a former top pick, who's bit in
the fire, who can get the job done, who could
throw you to a win in the last seconds against
the Cowboys in a game that doesn't even really mean
much to you. He can handle it all. He's a pro.
He's the perfect backup for a young guy like Jaden
who he understands what it's like to be in the spotlight.
I love that they just aren't relying on Jaden. They're
(32:22):
not a team that goes into the season he goes. God,
if we lose him, we're screwed. Well, no Marcus can
keep the ship afloat until Jayden can come back or
whatever if that were the case. Strength in numbers at
quarterback it's rare. You have a lot of superstars that
you think about, Hey, how are you missing Josh Allen
Will Mitch Trubisky's behind him and I don't have the
same confidence in him. It's a strength in depth and
that's why I like their situation.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
It was a limited sample size, but it was the
best I think Marcus Mariot has ever looked in his career.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
I mean, it was forty four. I try not to
get that's something.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
He did have a stretch in Tennessee where he did
he looked pretty good. It was only forty four terms,
so it's really not fair. But he did have four
touchdowns in those four forty four attempts, and he had
ten point nine adjusted yards per attempt, which would easily
lead the NFL. Didn't take sacks, you know, didn't make
(33:13):
too many mistakes, had a game winning drive, and it
wasn't just the numbers. If you go back and watch
like he had some dimes, some difficult throws down the field.
I was like, okay, Marcus Marietta, but what puts it
over the top for me?
Speaker 4 (33:24):
There?
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I think you had a good pick, you might have
had the better room overall is we got Josh Johnson
still in the league. Is on the Washington Commanders.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
Right now, forty years old, Josh McCown man.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Literally, no one has ever had a career in NFL
history like Josh Johnson, having to play in these other
leagues and never playing and bouncing around and keeping it
going until forty. You know, Props to Josh Johnson. I
hope he makes their final roster. All right, I've messed
around enough. I actually had the Eagles wide receivers in
my top five or six overall, but we've just gotten
(33:57):
wide receiver heavy and so I didn't want to go
back to him. But I mean, aj Brown and Devanta
Smith are on the same team, and Johan Dotson is
definitely the weak spot here, and the number four receiver,
whoever you want to call it, is the weak spot here.
But Johan Donson made some big plays during a Super
Bowl run. That alone is enough to be like, Okay,
(34:18):
I guess that third round pick that we traded for
him was worth it, because if you make like three
important plays for us on the way to winning a
Super Bowl, that's the whole point. Of playing the sport,
and he helped to do that. And I do think
with a full offseason there he can get a little better.
But to me, Aj and Devanta are arguably as good
as Chasing Higgins because I think the falloff from one
(34:39):
to two is not as severe. Devanta Smith is just
that good and aj Brown to me, is a top
five receiver.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
In the NFL. He would probably be number five if
I'm doing it.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Yeah, And I think style wise, they compliment each other
so well, which is a true test of the strength
of a position group is how well do you fit together.
So I love that pick as well. They were up
there for me. Now I feel like I'm just following
you in every direction, but I'm oh, oh, I also
want to note one more thing before I move on
to that down their depth chart. Hopefully he makes the roster.
One of my former favorites during the dark days in Carolina,
(35:11):
Terris Marshall. He's a guy that I felt never got
the opportunities when Carolina was going through guys. I just
want to see if he maybe sees the field that
if he's gonna make anything of his career, it could
be with them.
Speaker 4 (35:21):
If in you know, he gets called on.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
They do have a couple of guys.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
By the way, they took a Nia Smith and Johnny Wilson,
who's like the tallest wide receiver in the league.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Johnny Wilson that is in the Day three. Last year.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
You wouldn't have expected them to contribute as rookies, but
you know, just some guys to watch that they might.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Be in the cast this year. Johnny Wilson is like
a pillar in the red zone. Okay, let's go receiver again.
And like you said, we've been kind of screwing around
because come on down, Minnesota Vikings. Yeah, I mean, how
do we get to this point because of course we're trying.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
To not just pile on at receiver throughout this entire draft.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
But I mean, you know what you have in Justin Jefferson,
who's given up JJ the nickname to his quarterback. Now,
you know what you have in Jordan Adison, who I
think is one of the best number two receivers in
the NFL and has only proven that over the last year.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
You have Jalen Naylor.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Like I think that this group in itself just works
so well together. And then you mix in the involvement
of the tight ends. Like I thought that they were
gonna miss kJ Osborne a little bit last year. They
it was fine without him. I just think it's one
of the better passing games in the NFL, and a
lot of that is dependent on those top two receivers
who just continue to make plays. They made so many
plays with Sam Darnold last year and looking forward to
(36:26):
see how they fit with JJ McCarthy.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Yeah, they take a third round pick two in ty Felton,
who's maybe a yat guy with some speed who might
be replacing Naylor at least in the long run. They
brought in Rondell Moore, Like, that's a that's a deep group.
That's great value.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
This deep.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
I think we underrated the and if it is what
it is, if the best rooms are wide receiver rooms,
so be it. Jordan Addison, I don't know. I don't
know why he fell so far. I guess it was
the the like workout numbers and stuff. But he's just
a natural receiver. I'm going and we'll speed it up
to finish it out. I think we're at pick seventeen.
We're gonna go top twenty. I don't think I'm being
(37:03):
a homer putting the Patriots cornerbacks up here. Carlton Davis
is a big time free agent signing. He's obviously a
plus cornerback, a physical cornerback who, if he stays healthy,
would be the best cornerback on some teams, not most teams.
He's not a guy you probably want to be your
best cornerback, but you really love him as the number two.
And Christian Gonzalez is right there for me with Patrick
(37:26):
certan Ann Stingley as the best cornerback in the league.
I think he's that talented and he's that good. He's
just been stuck on the Patriots and it's a big
drop off after that, and that's why they go this late.
But to me that they might have the best top
two in terms of cornerbacks in the entire NFL. Marcus
Jones is a tryhard, undersized slot corner who probably right
(37:48):
now is the number three. I wouldn't be surprised if
they add like a veteran at some point. So it's
a big drop off after the top two, but I'm
gonna take him here.
Speaker 4 (37:56):
Yeah. Vermo de agree.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
I think that the addition of Davis takes some of
the pressure off of Gonzales as well, and ultimately he
just needs to stay healthy. That's what's most important for
his trajectory. Because he's an excellent cornerback. He just needs
to be on the field.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
So I like that pick. There's a little bit of
Homerism with saying they might have the best two corners
in the NFL. A little bit, just a little bit.
I'm gonna push you back.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
I stand by it. So it did sting me. Lassiter.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
It's certain And whoever you want to say is their
number two, Baron or Moss, you know, I think it's
in that mix.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Come on, yeah, I might, yeah, yeah. This is why
we play the games on the field, not on paper. Right, Okay,
we're going to go back to Detroit again. MotorCity, Detroit
Rock City. I'm Geene Simmons, lead singer a Kiss here
and I'm just gonna keep talking about the Motor City.
Speaker 4 (38:41):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
This is a group that I think is going to
fly under the radar because it might lack name recognition
because Aiden Hutchinson is the name that you recognize on
the edge. But for me, they're defensive tackles are among
some of the deepest in the NFL. And we talked
about this after the draft. I love their selection of
Tyler Williams, so I think is going to rise to
(39:02):
prominence and be a good player in the NFL.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
But you continue to go down this group.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
You've got DJ Reader, You've got Alee McNeil, you keep
Levi on Wuzourique. That's a great four, And I think
when it comes to constructing your defensive front, there are
so many injuries and things that happens on the defensive
interior that if you lose one or two guys and
you're not deep enough, suddenly it's a massive liability. I've
actually watched it with the Browns over the last couple
of years as they've tried to plug their gaps. The
Lions are setting themselves up for success and for stopping
(39:29):
the run with the death that they have and the
upside the potential of a guy like Tyler Williams to
make difference making plays in his rookie season. So that's
why I just feel so confident in this group among
many others.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
As we've already discussed.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
It's a slow developing position, but Alee McNeil has another
level to go. He can be an all pro type
player at leading the way it's extremely deep. I mean
to have Reader and Tyleek Williams on Rozouriki and then
they sign Roy Lopez was a guy from Arizona I
always liked just as a rotational guy. That is really deep.
That's a good pick.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
I'll stay at defensive tackle the Seahawks, and I guess
this will be my last pick. I think this is
nineteen Leonard Williams, John Reid, and Byron Murphy. I like
that group of interior players, the way that Leonard Williams
played last year. John Reid like he's only good when
he's on the Seahawks, but he is very good. And
then Byron Murphy is a young, improving player. I like
that group for Seattle. You wrap it up the twentieth
(40:23):
pick final.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
I'm really really conflicted here because do we talked, do
we talk textan safeties or no?
Speaker 1 (40:29):
I said they weren't going to make my list. Now
because we didn't, that's a possibility you could go there.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
I'm split between two and I think I'm going to
go in that direction just because I don't like the
vibes coming out of Buffalo regarding James Cook. I think
that they're undervaluing him. Unfit, So you're going to go
running running backs. I was because I love Ray Davis,
love me some Ray Davis. But we're gonna go safeties
because the top tier, you know, potential with these guys
and who they have at safety in Houston, I think
it's just they got They got a ton of production.
(40:57):
I think in spots from Kaylyn Bullock last yet strong safety.
They get cjdj at free safety. Like you mentioned before,
Jimmy Ward is also still on this roster. M J.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
Stewart seems like he's been there for years.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
I don't know why.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
They were collecting old browns like years ago, and a
lot of them just managed to stay on the roster.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
I just love this group.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
I love this group overall because of the potential to
make a difference and their depth now that they've added CJ.
Gardner Johnson as well, and it's in the back end
of a secondary that we've already discussed is incredibly strong.
Speaker 4 (41:24):
Alan like this is. It's a pass first league. You
want to shut it down, you do it like this.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
So the Texans get both their secondary groups in there.
The Lions get four groups total. If your team did
not get a position group on this list try harder,
you know, be better, or let us know. Let us
know if we overlooked you. Some honorall mentions. The Eagles
interior offensive line I think definitely could have been there.
Kim Jurgen's, Landon Dickerson a new starter, and Tyler Stein,
(41:50):
but they're good. The Bills running backs you mentioned because
James Cook. I love Ray Davis too, and ty Johnson's
a really good third down back man.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
I actually kind of feel bad we didn't mention them.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Uh, if we were looking for another tight end group
like the Raiders Michael Mayer and Brock Bauers, you got
Ian Thomas.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Maybe there's there's like unfulfilled potential with mayor there's unfulfilled
potential a couple of these groups. Or it's just like
as some changes, like the Eagles interior offensive line, like
is Tyler Stein going to be able to replace what
Mkai Beckton did?
Speaker 1 (42:16):
I love Keanu Bettan and Cam Hayward in Pittsburgh. I
kind of mentioned them a little earlier. I like the
Bucks tackles, Tristan Wurf's maybe the best in the game,
and Luke Getticky improved a lot so that that would
have been possible. I tell you, if the Jags, if
Travis Center is as good as I think he's going
to be, that wide receiver group, watch out that could be.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Hell.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
It's a little bit.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
It's a little early, but I love Brian Thomas that much.
Love you too, Buddy Shook. Enjoy the rest of your birthday.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
We did it.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
We determined on an off season day in May, the
best twenty position groups in the NFL.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
I'm so proud of us. Now I'm gonna go have
cake or something I don't know, go to the gym.
How else would I celebrate my birthday.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Our next show, we'll be with Jordan rod Rieg, Colleen
will Well back in the studio.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Look, when we're just ranking random things in the middle
of the off season, it's actually an argument that football
is not back. It's pretty quiet these days, but it'll
be back soon enough.
Host
Gregg Rosenthal
Popular Podcasts
Are You A Charlotte?
In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com