May 5, 2025 • 44 mins
Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic to get you caught up on news from around the NFL. First, Gregg explains why he was left wanting more from Bill Belichick's new book "The Art Of Winning" (00:30). After the break, Gregg and Jourdan talk about the Commanders hosting the 2027 NFL Draft (27:30), 5th year options for players around the NFL (30:00), Jalen Ramsey's future (40:40) and more!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to NFL Daily, where we've got the number one
Jordan in professional football. I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the
grage for NFL Daily with my friend Jordan Rodrigue of
The Athletic And yes, Jordan, I asked you on to
talk about the Bill Belichick book.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome, let a start to the week.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Want to start to the week, recording this early Monday morning,
and man, you're coming out swinging with this topic today, Greg,
you have takes.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
So I spent too much of my weekend reading the
Bill Belichick book called The Art of Winning and thinking
about Bill Belichick and why this book exists and why
this book doesn't work, and I just need to get
it out of my system because it's too much Bill
Belichick in the middle of May in the year twenty
twenty five. So we're going to talk about the book,
(00:52):
a little bit about Bill Belichick as an entity right
now and why he might be searching for new pr
according to ProFootball talk dot com, and we will do
a little bit of a news on the back end.
But yeah, my first question with this is just and
I know you haven't read the book, Jordan. Only a
select few apparently got this in the mail. It was
(01:13):
originally sent to New York. I'm holding up if you're
watching it on YouTube and the New York Office. And
then and it got to me, I haven't seen many reviews,
so I thought I would tell people about it. And
my number one thing is like, why did Bill Belichick
write a business book? It's like everything about this rollout
is clumsy, and everything with his girlfriend is getting picked
(01:36):
on and everything seems clumsy. But beyond all that, like
him writing a business book was insane. It was like
if you drafted Lawrence Taylor and you asked him to
play cornerback or something, and it just makes every part
of the book so clumsy.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
And there are good parts of the book.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I'll get to that, but like the way he tries
to connect it to business, we're so bad. And you
know this as a writer, Jordan, sometimes the concept doesn't
work from step one, and I think this is one
of those. There was no saving this book trying to
make it a business book. And when you look at
some of the emails that Jordan put out on her Instagram,
he doesn't seem really that happy with the rollout of
(02:17):
this book either. It might not be the book he
wanted to write. I don't even know, but that's sort
of where I start with this book.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Well, yes, and to be clear, I have not read
this book. Yes, you try to deliver it to me
over the weekend, and you know what, I went and
touched grass and saw the sun, and I would say,
like healthy boundaries, I think it, and I saw Sinners,
which was so master It was a masterpiece. It was
just masterfully done. It was amazing. So what I would
(02:42):
say is like, first of all, the process of getting
something published like this in general, when you're trying to
walk that line, like usually when you're writing the book
or proposal or something like that. I don't know if
he had to do that, considering he's such a name,
but you have to say what it's going to be
in order for people to say, Okay, I will put
money into that and invest into it. And in a
(03:04):
world where there are very few sports books that are
cracking through like the Zeitgeist, I would think that it
was I would imagine, and someone from their camp can
come correct me if I'm wrong. Imagine that it was
pitched as some sort of a combination leadership football book
and specifically about leadership. That's what the vibe I'm getting
(03:25):
from this, from the rollout, from all of it. So
that's one thing. The other part of is Greg, I
know what, when you see a book written by Bill Belichick,
who's like this encyclopedic mind of football, who has so
many stories, has so much to tell about the sport
and his experience in it, I could feel from our
conversations over the weekend that you were left wanting sort
(03:46):
of in that department of what this book was and
versus what perhaps you wanted it to be.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yes, Like you could tell it's positioning itself as a
football book because on the back cover, the top lurb
is by some guy Ray Dalio, who's like.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
A leader guy.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Oh my god, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I could tell that he's like a good guy.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
He's some guy grect, let's clear, but to me, like
someone who's in the world of the football is like,
I don't know who that is. And then the lead
blurb there is one from Brady on the cover. On
the inside cover is from Susie Welch, who he also mentioned,
who I also was not aware of, but I googled.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Okay, I'm just gonna rant a little bit like.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
The people he quotes are business, and it was like
a turn paper where you're trying to bring it back
every once in a while to like every few paragraphs,
to like how this can help you, and.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Like the like it's so clumsy.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Here's a little quote he had at one point, I'm
gonna write He's like, here's a motivation trick. When you
feel lazy, close your eyes and imagine Gronk walking into
your office, swatting you aside and taking your job. What's
he doing? How hard is he doing it? Does he
seem depressed to be working hard? Or does he just
spike your coffee mug on your head after sending that
email you were too overwhelmed to type. There's a lot
of that, and it just keep making me thinking, like,
(04:58):
did Bill Belichick actually write this book? Because there are
a lot of parts in it where it just doesn't
sound remotely like his voice, And there's a lot of
trying to connect it to you and your meeting room
and you and your emails, and you're like, what is
happening here? And it made me sort of think that
the book in general was like a fundamental misunderstanding of
(05:19):
why Bill Belichick is great, that maybe he even misunderstands that,
at least to me, I don't think he's great because
of his leadership skills. I think all the things there
are interesting things in here about running a team, in
leadership and all that, but it's because of his football, Accuban,
it's because of his game plans. There are a lot
of coaches that can lead, and we get none of that.
We get incredibly little of football in the book. Are
(05:43):
there are stories, and he tries to, you know, bring
it back to the business of it all. But it's
like a movie that had a lot of money in it,
and you can see that all these different hands were
in it and that no one really got what they wanted.
That was sort of like my overall takeaway, and it's frustrating.
(06:04):
He got mad at the ben Volean review, which to
me was very generous to it, saying it was like
a breezy read and that he left more for future books,
like it was a nice way of saying it it
was boring. He was mad about the ben Volean review
in The Boston Globe because he focused on the part
of the book, the chapter where he talks about how
(06:24):
I picked up how that can be like a really
useful phrase to have in your building up and then
he goes through a few things he piked up on
and the reason he wrote about that because it was
one of the only interesting parts of the book. It
actually seemed like it was from Bill Belichick. For instance,
he really regrets going forward on fourth and thirteen in
the Super Bowl against the Giants when they were eighteen
(06:45):
and oh instead of kicking a field goal, which he
thought that was his biggest mistake in the game, which
was interesting. I heard to talk about that, but it
always like goes back to these clumsy points. Right after
he makes that point about the field goal, he literally writes,
he writes this paragraph, if I can do that admitting
that mistake, you can admit that you forgot to take
(07:06):
the water mark off your PDF, or you can admit
you left a coffee mug on the conference table and
that left a mark, or admit that you had a
jammed copy machine. And it's just like, how much do
you think these readers are idiots? Like, not only do
you have no connection to the business world, it's sort
of a disdain for the reader that reminds me of
(07:27):
his press conferences, that reminds me of his interview with
sixty minutes that acts like you should be so lucky
to give you the little that I'm gonna give you,
and that's all you're gonna get because I don't really
think that highly of you. Which works when you're winning
super Bowls and you're at a podium. It doesn't work
as a book. You're just like, why is this guy
(07:47):
treating me like a like an idiot? And you know
that's like the business see part of it that drove
me crazy.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
I think it's interesting because that was I think one
of the greg the gregiest of all Greg Rants just
now got more.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I've got more got.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
He's wearing his Boston Celtic's sweatshirt.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
For our game one tonight. Nick, let's go.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
I do want to say it too, like I think
that expecting somebody to write the book you want when
they've proven that they're very, very good at like this
one thing. And I don't I don't know you. We talked,
I asked you about this, We talked about this. I
don't know who wrote the book. I I don't know
how much of his voice.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
To operate like he wrote the book because it's actually
the only name on it.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
But That's the thing is I think that expecting people
who are so gifted in this one specific area that
made them incredibly regarded, incredibly well known, in absolute dominating,
catalytic force, a disruptor in football for so long, who
changed the sport in so many ways, expecting him to
also be able to adequately convey like how he did
(08:51):
that in a way that connects with a side of
a building that he never like, a side of an
of an economy or an ecosystem that like he never
was actually in always had people doing it for him.
I think that it's like I would say, for me,
I again, I have not read it, but I would
go in with with no expectations. Okay for hearing before
(09:13):
people hearing there no, because you went on for like
ten minutes just now.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
So I will just say, I just want to answer
that that specific point. The only reason I would have
higher expectations is because he has such in affinity for
a the history of football, be books about football he's
participated in.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
This is not that book. He no, no, I get
that it's from them done in pages. It's clear that
this is not that book, nor is it pretending or
trying to be I'm not sticking up for a book
I haven't read. I'm also not dumping on a book
I haven't read. But I would just say like, and you,
I Greg, you are a incredibly experienced mind and voice
in this particular topic with such a background in it.
(09:54):
So I'm not like pushing back on your opinion.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I just want I would say why I had higher expectations.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
But right, and that's that's fine. But I would just say, like,
this is not that book, so you can't even start
from framing your perspective on the book from the from
the lens of Oh, Bill Belichick has a pen in
his hand and I'm going to learn some football. This
is going to be great. Like that's just not never
what this was going to be. And I think that's
what a lot of people are having a hard time
with about his image currently right now and some of
(10:21):
the chaos around it as it pertains to his composure
at or his comportment at at UNC, also his relationship
the larger narrative that's going on around him as a
brand right now. I think that it's like letting people
down because it's not the thing that they thought of
Bill Belichick for so long.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
When I'm not trying that hard.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
He's doing something and it's a book that is sort
of about how hard you need to work and what
leadership you need to show, and he's doing none of that.
The thing I was most disappointed by him in the
media was like, there could have been a good media
Bill Belichick out there, but he just decided to do
everything and try some harder at some than others and
(11:07):
just like crank through it, and he wasn't really trying
that hard at it. This book is written sort of
like a book by a guy who is writing a
resume for an NFL owner to hire him, or like
a political candidate who's in between elections and doesn't actually
want to say anything.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
And I think there could be a good Bill Belichick
book there.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
That's all because he literally has a Belichick library, like
he takes it so seriously. No one has worked more
with NFL films to like cultivate how people think about
him than Bill Belichick. No one cares about football history.
So in a book where you're talking all about these
principles and you're not like acting on it, because you're
kind of clearly phoning in the book, then you're just
(11:49):
like what am I doing here? And why would it?
More importantly, why would anyone spend thirty five dollars on this?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
So I'm going to try to talk for thirty consecutive
seconds now, So I just I'm just pushback. I'm just
saying I don't think he wrote it for those people
who have football expectations of him. I think, out of
the gate, like you're saying, it's written as like instructive
for people who, yes, he thinks he is, he probably
thinks he is more successful than and probably is in
(12:14):
many ways, and yes, thinks that he has something to
like educate people on. But he's not writing to a
mind that he's sitting in a room with talking to,
talking ideas back and forth. He's writing to an audience
that he feels like he's instructing. And so of course
it's going to feel derivative. Of course, it's going to
feel like you're being toucked down on and you have
(12:35):
higher expectations for this great figure in football who is
like one of the brightest minds we've ever seen, and
you just want more of that. But he's not writing
it for that, clearly. I mean this entire.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Francis he's writing is so Tom Curran, who knows him
as well and has covered him as much as just
about anyone. Yeah, he talked a little bit about this,
and he didn't think Belichick even wanted to write it,
and that's sort of what he was like, probably got
forced to write it from people around him. And there
were some emails that went out that you know, his
(13:09):
his girlfriend let out, I was looking for it now
where you know, he got very upset about some of
the language in the book and how the rollout's going
and the title of the book, which is you know,
he wanted the title to be something different, and they
called it the Art of Winning, which is either a
takeoff of the Art of War or the Art of
the Deal by Donald Trump. Either way, it's not like
(13:31):
one of the It wasn't what he wanted it to be.
He wanted it to be do your job, and it
just it kind of gets to it would.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Have been really good, why are you doing this?
Speaker 3 (13:41):
That would have told that would have told me more
about what the book is about. He's literally telling people
how to do their jobs, you know, like.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
I write exactly, that would be a great title for
the book, and that is what the book away, and
there is some legit takeaways in there. The one I
liked in terms of like office takeaways was good. He
was like, beware of the people that come up to
you on the first day of your job and are
really nice and say they'll do anything for you.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
And I was like, oh, that's a bark. That's a
good one. That's a good one.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Some of the football nuggets are great. I mean, there
are little things in here. That's the thing is he
could write about a book of a lot of great stories.
Like he has like one paragraph on Jimmy Johnson is
like where he doesn't say anything. It's a lot of show,
don't tell. Like it's bad writing in general. It's like
poorly edited. There are points referring back to something that
(14:30):
didn't exist, Like it looks just sloppy, and so that
like there are points that were said two paragraphs before
that are set again in a way that you're like,
I actually think they were editing this and it like wasn't.
Like it's just sloppy. So if you're saying, you know,
be a good leader, you got to be a better
leader of this book. But there are a few like
great little stories, like one was like about Antonio Brown
(14:52):
and how they had to pay him back all this
money because when he was with the Patriots, he had
sent this spec so like unfertilized milk to Tom Brady.
They were bonding over their nutrition stuff, but it wasn't
refrigerated and it was just sitting at Tom Brady's locker
and went bad and Antonio Brown wasted thirty five hundred
(15:12):
dollars and the Patriots decided to like pay for it
because they were both in such bad moods about it,
and it made Antonio Brown happy. And it's a longer story,
but it is kind of funny. And he used that point.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
So they literally cried over spoiled milk, Yes, exact like.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
He used that point to be like, sometimes you got
to make the important people at your organization happy, even
if it's just like doesn't really make any sense. And
you had it wasn't your fault, and he's like, and
we went on and we won that game, and Antonio
Brown had a big play in that game. And oh,
by the way, they cut him like two days later.
He doesn't mention like he mentions that, and he's like,
and they reunited and Tampa Bay and their football marriage continues,
(15:49):
and so instead of talking it all about like the
mistakes that he made, like even when he's trying to
cop the mistakes, he quickly sort of makes it sound
good or just the points don't make any sense.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Man, it's just a little cringey. I'm sorry, I am disappointed.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Yeah, And I think again, that's considering your perspective on it,
like in your history with with that franchise and all
of that. It's like, I think that's fair to look
at somebody who is one of, like I said, one
of our predominant figures in the sport right now and forever,
and to expect more out of something that you feel
(16:26):
came from his brain. You're kind of like, is that
what's in your brain? Because I know that there's so
much more that's in your in your brain. And I think,
like I said before, I think that's where the societal
collective is having a hard time with this entire like
reimagination and rebrand, even though I would argue that it's
not necessarily a total like actual rebrand, because he's acting
(16:46):
in a lot of ways that he always has acted.
But this entire like new era of Bill in the
college version, like it's it's just so it. People have
him built up as this figure, as we tend to
do in sports, and some of that is by merit
and by accolade, but some of that also is like, well,
how much do you really how well do you really
(17:08):
know this person who you watch mumble and be grumpy
on a podium and who very clearly and meticulously has
controlled his image and his brand for so many years?
Like how well do you really know the person across
from you on your TV screen and not, you know,
breathing oxygen in the same room as you. So I
think that that's where people are grappling, Like, like I said,
(17:32):
on a broader scale, people are really grappling with this
entire conversation right now. And I think that's why it's
piqued people's interests, because nothing humans like more than a
good psychological study.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yes, and like, okay, let's get into that part of it.
I do want to get back to the book a
little bit before we go, But like, I think how
the book is highlighting what's going on in his life
is interesting. The quote I mentioned before, he says, I
have at times relocked gone. Along with the title, the
cover and the language in this book. It's a little
(18:03):
bit of a problem if you're not happy with the
language of the book.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
And I get it.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
There was there was a part in the book where
he called Federer the goat of tennis.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
It was like Bill Belichick's not saying that.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
There's a part of the book where he had a
Patrick Mahomes quote that he said he would like to
make his cell phone ring tone.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
It's like Bill Belichick did not say that. Just like, okay, so.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I get why you didn't want to go along with
the language, like don't go along with the language. But
he says in the book and there are a few
a few bars Like I said, he said, the wrong
reason for mistakes is almost always ego. And that's sort
of my bigger point, which is like this book is
a mistake and it's about ego. This rollout is a
little bit about his ego, believing he can control the
(18:45):
narrative and that everyone else is wrong.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Like this book is not winning. It's half asked.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
And I know you're saying the expectations should be lower,
But like he I guess if he wanted to make
a good book, he would go he would do it.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
He's I'm not saying they should be lower. I'm just
saying it does not meet what is very clearly the
expectation people have of him as a football mind. And
he's he's not to me, he's not trying to reach
that world at all whatsoever. He's trying to reach another
collective group that perhaps he feels like he has something
to instruct them based on his status in the other
(19:22):
completely different world.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Was there used to like make a quick buck when
he wasn't sure if he was going to get back
into coaching. I just the thing that gets me is like,
let's can we get past? And I saw this written
in a column over the weekend, like can we get
past the point of people saying like bet Belichick doesn't
care what he thinks? And then he's he's in the
CBS interview and he's like, I never cared too much
what people think when he's talking about relationship, Like who
(19:48):
cares more about what people think? That the choice of
his sweatshirt with the hole in it is a very
conscious fashion choice to construct how he wants people to
think about him. And he doesn't like now that he's
losing like a little control. And I like his image
in the past, like it's an image that supports him
(20:08):
having a library of books and NFL films. It's a
guy who like loves football, and that image is not
in that book. But if you read those emails that
the Athletic, for instance, brought up with their public records requests,
and the one even that I don't think his girlfriend
is doing him any favors putting out there, it shows
like how much he really cares what people thinks. Throughout
(20:29):
his career. Tom Current talked about this on his podcast.
He's had favorites in the media that sort of are
his guys. He'll give a lot of information to. But
the second that they push back, even just a little
bit on him and have their own opinion about what
Bill is doing, they're iced out forever. That is caring
about what people thinks more than everything, And so I
do think it's okay to be a little disappointed in
(20:52):
him as a human on a weekend that Greg Popovich
is retiring and I'm just thinking, man, kid, does a
couple of the Bell Tech stories ever be like the
Popovich stories?
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Like?
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Is that too much to ask?
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Obviously it is, But I've invested too much in my
Belichick life.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
To just like totally let it go.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Yeah, And I get that, and like, Greg, trust me,
Like I feel this from you. We've texted about this,
Like I know that this is something you're incredibly passionate about.
I'm not pushing back against disagreeing with your opinion of
a book that you read and you took a lot
of time to study. I'm just saying all of our
sports figures in general, all of them, top to bottom,
(21:30):
every single one of them. The people you even see
on your TV screens talking about sports like they're human
beings with strange lives in a very strange environment that's
hyper competitive. That's a sickness in many ways that that
makes you ill to exist in for extended periods of time.
(21:50):
And then you're not, and then you are, and then
you're not, and then you are, and then you're you're
grappling with how to exist as a human within that space,
and then you become of that space. And Bill Belichick
a long time ago became synonymous with that space and
of that space, and I think became sort of this
hard and shell of a person that was like a
brand and a grumbler and someone we would just see
(22:12):
on our TV but I'm just saying, like with anyone
who exists in these spaces, whatever sport or media or whatever, like,
don't have the expectation. Just don't be cause they're gonna
they're gonna be somebody who you're not. You don't know
at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
That it's a great point, and I think it's true,
and this one hits I think just because I do
love football, and I love football books, and I love
Belichick as a football mind, and I think he does too,
and so I think that good book is in there.
I think maybe he'll maybe he still will write it someday.
But part of it is also I think what you're
(22:49):
seeing from some of his ex players who are willing
to talk out that's just like you forget that the
end for so many of these great coaches specifically are
not I mean, go through him. Vince Lombardi unfortunately, like
was kind of stumbling through an era in Washington before
(23:10):
he just died on the job more or less. Don
Shula the end it was not great. Tom Landry, the
end was not great. Bill Belichick's hero, Paul Brown, like
the end was was really tough. And I guess I
did have in my mind this like post career Belichick
that could be different, partly because he's he taught me
(23:32):
to do that. So I am going to recommend a
couple books, Education of a Coach by David Hauberstam, which
is with Belichick about him and his dad. Is like
that's kind of the problem is that, like the Great
Belichick book has already been written and Belichick participated it,
and like there are actually a couple little things in
this book. And then there's also a book Patriot Reign
(23:53):
by Michael Holly, which was a great insider fly on
the wall account where he's with the team for two years,
including their first which is or another they're O two
o three seasons, which are amazing. Like, read those books
and he participated in those books. Uh, if you want
to read good football writing and learn a little bit
uh more about it.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
And I hold out hope too that the that the
really good football book that like kind of preserves who
this person is in football's history. I hold out hope
for that existing top education. But I'm saying specifically, but
if he wants to write it by him kind of
(24:35):
plumbing some of the areas that maybe are yet to
be discovered. But yeah, and I agree with you. I
think that those are two really good examples. And again
I go back to the very start. It's hard. We
don't see a lot of those books come into existence,
that's fair anymore. There have been a few really great
ones over the last couple of years, but they are
few and far between when they do exist. And so
(24:55):
to me, this strikes a line between what does a
publisher want, what does a market want, what does a
marketing agency want? And how can I try to reach
and profit into this area where I can talk to
people sitting like at a what are these like pay
for attendance seminars that get held, like these conferences? It
(25:17):
kind of is like that, you know what I mean?
So like maybe that's maybe that's what it was, and
the next one won't be that. I don't know. It's
a long it's a long life. It's a long road.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
He according to those emails and sort of how he
reacted in the CBS interviews and the statement that he
made upset about how CBS you know cut the interview
does indicate that he wants the book to be taken
seriously and on its own terms, and so.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
So we tried to do that. Maybe maybe I'll write
another another book. It's funny.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
I was thinking, this is a small stupid thing. Like
he actually like points out how Bill Parcells was a
good communicator when he does like the if they're going
to make me make the meal, they should at least
let me cook the groceries, which is his famous line
on his way out of New England, and he mentions,
how like that's a good example of clear communication. And
(26:13):
I'm sitting there reading, like thinking like I literally read
another book, including you, Bill Belichick, where you made it
clear that you thought Bill Parcells was an absolutely horrible
leader for essentially phoning in his last couple weeks with
the Patriots as they were preparing for the Super Bowl
because he was already taking a job with the New
York Jets. And so it was almost an idea of like,
(26:34):
here's this Bill with ideals from twenty years ago in
a different book, and here's Bill trying to get that
cash grab, just like making.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
A very sort of lazy point years.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
One problem about books and about football and some of
the more binary ways football is covered and talked about,
is it freezes people in one period of times.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah, so That's one of the great things here out
him too. It really is. And this is a this
is a weird moment time for him.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Jordan, He's got he's got his son, Steven Belichick's wife
making like anti Jordan Hudson comments on Instagram, Well Steven's
on his staff, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Thinking, oh man, this is this is messy. Let's take
a quick break and let's get back. Let's talk some
news after the break.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
One of my favorite parts I didn't mention at the
end of that Belichick book is how he just thanked
like hundreds and hundreds of people and like hunt like
like a hundred Patriots players or more. And I was
just thinking, if you were one of those Patriots players,
like because obviously couldn't think every single one, it would
be heartbreaking if you're going fearing and your.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Name is not on there.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Like I was like, because he didn't mention Malcolm Butler
even once in the in the book, I was like,
you better have thank Malcolm Butler.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
It's like he did. He did did not mention Robert
Kraft though, did Yeah. I saw that.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
I I think my face is melted off after that.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I see review that.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
You if I really wanted to get into it. I'd
go into the couple reviews I've seen up. I mean,
give me a break, people, Why are you trading favors
by like having a decent review of Bill Belichick at
this point of his career.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
It's not going to help you out. It's not going
to help you out. Just be honest. Look, there's not
a lot of news, Jordan.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
There's always a couple of quiet weeks after the draft
where they do some rookie mini camps over the last weekend,
like the Seahawks at the Rookie Minnie Camp.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Some other teams did some more rookie minute camps.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Pop up this week. Some OTAs are starting up again
this week. But it's a little bit quiet. But we
did learn that Washington is going to host the twenty
twenty seven draft, an announcement made to great fanfare on Monday.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Definitely a new era for Commanders fans. I feel like
we say this every couple of weeks at this point,
with that new ownership group and coaching staff and quarterback
and infrastructure at least agreed to for that local stadium site.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
It is.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Yeah, it's it's I think we've seen how responsive and electric.
These cities regardless of where they are, whether it's raining,
whether it's cold, whether it's outside, whether it's inside. Like,
these cities really show up and show out for this event,
and the Commanders kind of keep stacking up these wins.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Here, great football town, great football fans. Pittsburgh I believe
has it next year, and so they keep going to
cool these cities that can't get a Super Bowl but
can have a draft, which is really cool. The announcement,
by the way, was made by Washington ownership and Donald Trump.
So just the reminder when there's like keep politics out
(29:46):
of football. It's like everyone's putting politics in football. Politics
are in literally everything, but they're going out of the
way to put politics in football.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
That was Yeah, I wonder how those crowd photos are
going to be manipulated.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
The fifth Your options were wrapped up over the last week,
and I just thought i'd throw it out to you.
Is there anything that stuck out to you with the
fifth year options?
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Ikia Kanwu kind of stuck out to me a little bit.
This is a Panthers franchise that's clearly not willing just
yet to give up on somebody they scouted, somebody they drafted.
All the previous previous regime did that. So I do
feel like this is uh that one stuck out to
me because they picked up his fifth year option. To
be clear, yes, yes that they did pick up his
(30:31):
fifth year option. And you know, if you at least
like some of the traits and you can keep a
tackle around for cheap for an extra year, I guess
you do it. But for me, I liked the maturation
of their offensive line as a collective over the last
season about season and a half, and he just there's
(30:52):
still to me so far for him to go that.
Maybe they think that they can continue consistency, the continuity
of staff of other people in that room will help him,
I guess take the next step.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
So, just to give some context for the audience, So
the fifth year option is for guys they're now only
entering their fourth year, but you're guaranteeing them their salary
next year at twenty twenty six. So for Ikya Kanwu,
that is a seventeen million dollar contract for a starting
left tackle locked in for next year.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
I think the general.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Consensus from people around the team and people that watched
them was that he probably did improve significantly enough last
year to at least feel good about his trajectory that
he's getting closer to average. And the crazy thing is
now is like these fifth year options, for the most part,
we're going to get it to one. That's an exception.
For the most part, are such reasonable deals that actually,
(31:47):
like I get it, like seventeen million dollars now, Jalen
Moore got that in free agency, like Cone probably would too,
Like it actually is probably worth it. And if you
wound up being your swing tackle even next year, it's
like it's not even the worst outcome. So so I
get that one. Well, while we're talking about Tyler, Lindenbraum
did not get his, which I was like, whoa w
(32:07):
that's crazy, But they said it's because of they wanted
to do a long term deal and because his fifth
year option was so beefed up because he's made Pro
Bowl all Pro I forget which one it is, but
that made it up to twenty three million dollars, which
is I get why they wouldn't do that.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Yeah, so if you do a multi year deal with him,
obviously you can help out your own salary cap in
the short term of that deal versus pay that significant
of a guarantee to somebody in that one fiscal year.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see them kind of
go heavier on the cash flow of a longer term
deal with him and then kind of avoid some of
those guarantees that that fifth year option would have provided
(32:44):
him specifically in.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
That year, right.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I do like that they put into the collective Bargaining Agreement,
which really does not help these orgies out at all,
these first round picks in general, that if you make
Pro Bowls, it bumps up your fifth option. Because he
was not taken early. That's why is twenty three million dollars.
And so I would be surprised, knowing the Ravens, if
they don't get a long term deal done with him.
(33:07):
They did pick up the option of Kyle Hamilton. Eventually
they'll get one done with him. Some other interesting one
Jordan Davis, who's just kind of been like a okay,
two down run stopper, does get his option picked up
by the Eagles. Some offensive linemen did not, Zion Johnson
for the Chargers, Trevor Pennying the right tackle for the Saints,
and then Evan Neil no surprise top ten pick for
(33:27):
the Giants. It's a reminder, Jordan. They always say, like
in the first round, when you take those linemen, it's like, well,
plug and play, Like there was always there, used to
be this idea that like offensive linemen were somehow safer
picks when they're just like every other pick there there,
there's inherent risk in every single pick.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
And those three did not work out.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Yeah, somehow to me that sounded still like a little
well Campbell shade. I know you're still not mbursing that pick,
but you know, I'm just I'm picking up I'm picking
up some subtleties from me here.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
You know, I was not thank you about that.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
So, yeah, those three guys didn't get the option. The
Packers actually kind of split the difference on their two
first round picks from four years ago. Little surprising. Kuay
Walker was a no. He's been all over the place
as an off ball linebacker, and I think they really
like Eddrin Cooper, so he's kind of replacing maybe what
they thought kuay Walker could do. But they did pick
(34:19):
up Devonte Wyatt their defensive tackles, so another score one
for the defensive lineman over off ball linebackers. And then
I just want to shout out Devin Lloyd, who I
think if I hadn't heard Ali Connolly's opinion, this wouldn't
have surprised me at all. Ali Connelly, for what it's worth,
thought our friend who's been on the show, that Devin
Lloyd improved enough last year that he thought he was
(34:40):
almost at like an all pro Pro Bowl level. It
was like one of the rising off ball linebackers in
the league. And the Jaguars obviously disagreed with that. They
didn't pick up his fifth year option. So that I'm
starting to make my list Jordan of a twenty twenty
six free agent, he could be an interesting one with
the big year.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yeah, I mean if he gets there, because I don't
think I think you know, it is coming from a
team building model that really devalues financially that position, whether
it's financially or draft pick. From that sort of like
Rams Tree from a front office perspective, But you have
not again guaranteeing a certain amount of money versus perhaps
(35:17):
getting an extension done might be a little bit of
a difference here. They said they need to get more
information on him, but I mean, the tape is the tape.
So I feel like this is at least someone we
might just at least keep an eye on in terms
of something multi year versus letting him totally hit free agency.
But they are trying to rebuild their core of their
(35:38):
roster at the same time.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
So and look, they didn't need to see more for
Travon Walker exactly.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Yeah, That's why I brought it up, that.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Said, it might be more of a system thing too,
Whereas like Travon Walker, you know what he's going to
do almost in any system, whereas they are bringing in
a totally new defense, which you haven't talked about much
at all, the Jaguars new young defensive Quarterator Campanil, I
believe is how you pronounce his yeah, and so seeing
how he fits in that defense. All right, A couple
other just small items before we get going the Ravens.
(36:09):
Justin Tucker is still on that roster. I thought it
was interesting over the weekend that John Harbass said a
kicking decision between Tucker and their sixth round pick will
come down to kicking, and that's it will be about football,
and that they're still waiting to find out about the
allegations for Tucker.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
What do you make of that? It's weird.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
It's typical. It's the thing that kind of irritates me
because it happens over and over and over again when
these situations arise, where in order to avoid the topic
at hand or having any nuanced or thoughtful discussion, and
also to avoid putting your foot in your mouth over
information that you maybe have not fully verified or research
or like things that could get you in legal trouble.
(36:52):
Like it is just the the blanket coverall excuse of
I'm actually not going to talk about this right now.
It will be a football decision. And so you see it.
You see it with everything. You see it with these
types of situations. You see it when people make questionable trades.
You see it when you know all all the time
that is code. That is football bro, football guy code
(37:13):
for I'm actually not going to talk about this with you.
So it just like I have no I have no
real comment or take on it because it's irritating. It's
just it's over and over again. This is what we see.
When it's a situation that is potentially very very serious.
Then you know, it's just it's irritating and it's derivative,
and it's it makes it infantilizes if I'm pronouncing that right,
(37:38):
and fantilizes an audience that is very much aware that
this is not just a football topic, as it pertains too.
Justin Tucker.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah, and they in Harbor even pointed out, look, we
took Tyler Loop in the first sixth round, then he
goes early in the sixth round, and I'm like, something
weird is going on here. He was prepped from hit
by his PR people before talking about Tucker. It might
be as something as simple as they're trying to avoid
any any filing from the NFLPA, that Tucker is getting
(38:09):
treated unfairly, that it's all about football, and that they're
planning to cut him at a later date because it
helps their salary cap more.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Who knows.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
There's no way Justin Tucker is kicking for them again,
I can't imagine, but he is still there on the roster.
They signed your old friend Joe Noteboom, by the way,
he will try to make that roster. Jerome Ford took
a pay cut in Cleveland, will go through the rest
of these quick and that just I just wanted to
mention that because that likely ends Nick Chubb's time in Cleveland.
They're pretty stacked at running back, and we'll see if
(38:39):
Chubb ends up in Chicago. There's been some talk about
that before. It takes like one hundred percent pay cut
to stay and there's just not room.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
I don't think.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
After the Browns drafted a couple players at the position,
the Bills signed Elijah Moore. That was rumored at so
those those Bills radio guys that Brandon Bean blew up
at like they should be happy you got Elijah more
in the building.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Was it like the next day too, or two days
later or something like that that It's like I could
just imagine Brandon Bean, who I like a lot, by
the way, I thought that was hilarious and and I
think those guys handled it really well too, because it's
always a bit of a shock when something like that happens.
But it's like I could just imagine of sitting there
with the transaction sheet as like his assistant GM and
just being like, gosh, we need to run this through
(39:23):
and then everybody's going to make the exact same joke
at the same time.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Oh my god. There were some rooky mini camps. I do.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
I am dorky enough that like I go to your
great site the athletic and see like the pictures of
Jalen Milroe and Gray's Abel and Elijah Royo and the
Seahawks uniforms, and just like.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Oh, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
There's quotes from them talking, that's cool Zabel. By the way,
he was left guard at the mini camp. They're not
going to use him at center. That was expect that
he's going to probably start at left guard. They're not
going to use him at tackle either, at least not now.
And Nick Iman worry their safety playing a lot near
the line of scrimmage. And it caught my eye that
he's wearing the number three.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
Who could have ever projected some of his traits? Yeah?
Who could have ever predicted? It's just cool. It's like,
I don't know. I like when football pays tribute to itself.
You know, yet another reason why you were let down
by the belt.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
I actually like.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
It, right, I like it when I like that Emmin
Worry is wearing Russell Wilson's number. Sometimes I don't like
the defensive players with the single digits, but there is
something I don't know.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
I actually like the other people. Maybe we'll hate it.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Speaking of defensive players who might be playing safety Jalen
Ramsey are last thing Sean McVay mentioned. I believe it
was on Adam Shin's radio show that they were interested
in training for Jalen Ramsey. He basically confirmed it that
that would be something that they were interested in, kind
of mentioned the timing of it all. June first might
(40:51):
be a big date here said other teams might be
involved in this as well. But it's clear that Jalen
Ramsey will not be on the Dolphins, and it does
sound like there's a chance that the Rams will be
the team he lands with.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Yeah, they've been saying this publicly and very openly since
the days leading up to the first round of the draft.
You know, they reiterated it again on Saturday afternoon after
the every round of the draft, like that he is
a player they would be interested in reuniting with. There's
there's no surprise there. Jalen Ramsey most likely wants to
come back to Los Angeles as well, had a lot
(41:24):
of success here, really understands knows the building. Sean McVay, Chrishula,
He's very close with those guys. So that's all makes sense.
It's the little old pesky problem of the Rams are
not going to pay a significant amount for this, and
Miami would have to absorb salary even post June first,
So that's the hold up here. It's like, Okay, all
(41:45):
of this sounds really nice, but how much is Miami
really willing to do here? Because the Rams they kind
of go about this process, and they went about it
this last year and then and certainly through the draft
where they did not pick up a corner and they
went out and they got Emmanuel Forbes last season to
play potentially on the outside behind either a Kella Witherspoon
(42:07):
or Darius Williams. Kobe Durant is going into his final
year of his contract, so they have a four deep.
I wouldn't say that it's gonna shock people or anything
like that, but it's a four deep and they're deep
at safety, and they got a couple undrafted free agents
that they really like who played well. Fam Kim Kitchens
also played really well. So it's like one of those
things where they do have leverage to draw Miami down
(42:29):
a little bit. And I think they know by now
that they're just not going to make fiscally unsound moves
heading into what will be probably a couple of big
spend years for them as they kind of try to
go all in with Matthew Stafford still at quarterback. So
this is one of those things where I think everybody
wants it to happen, but structurally we'll see. I would
(42:50):
predict he's on the Rams roster by training camp, but
like I said, we'll see.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Yeah, I think the need and the desire from all
parties will match up more than the desire anywhere else.
The trick is always can you get a guy to
take a little less money. I kind of doubt it
when it comes to Ramsey, but we'll see if he
ends up having any choice. That is it for today's show. Jordan,
thank you for depie up Fiery One. I mean it
(43:17):
was It wasn't at.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
You, no, I know, I just I could feel. It's
like when you're listening to like a Metallica song and
your face just starts peeling back, like they're not playing
to me or at me, but my face is still melting.
You know.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
I'll take that as a compliment. Let's hit the music here.
Jordan will be back. It's Big Jordan week. I believe
we have Colleen Wolf in the studio once to that. Yeah,
man Belichick did say the Patriot Way does not exist.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
I appreciated that in the book.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
So when the Patriot Way no longer exists, but the
man who said that decided to trademark the Belichick Way,
football is back
Welcome to NFL Daily, where we've got the number one
Jordan in professional football. I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the
grage for NFL Daily with my friend Jordan Rodrigue of
The Athletic And yes, Jordan, I asked you on to
talk about the Bill Belichick book.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome, let a start to the week.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Want to start to the week, recording this early Monday morning,
and man, you're coming out swinging with this topic today, Greg,
you have takes.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
So I spent too much of my weekend reading the
Bill Belichick book called The Art of Winning and thinking
about Bill Belichick and why this book exists and why
this book doesn't work, and I just need to get
it out of my system because it's too much Bill
Belichick in the middle of May in the year twenty
twenty five. So we're going to talk about the book,
(00:52):
a little bit about Bill Belichick as an entity right
now and why he might be searching for new pr
according to ProFootball talk dot com, and we will do
a little bit of a news on the back end.
But yeah, my first question with this is just and
I know you haven't read the book, Jordan. Only a
select few apparently got this in the mail. It was
(01:13):
originally sent to New York. I'm holding up if you're
watching it on YouTube and the New York Office. And
then and it got to me, I haven't seen many reviews,
so I thought I would tell people about it. And
my number one thing is like, why did Bill Belichick
write a business book? It's like everything about this rollout
is clumsy, and everything with his girlfriend is getting picked
(01:36):
on and everything seems clumsy. But beyond all that, like
him writing a business book was insane. It was like
if you drafted Lawrence Taylor and you asked him to
play cornerback or something, and it just makes every part
of the book so clumsy.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
And there are good parts of the book.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I'll get to that, but like the way he tries
to connect it to business, we're so bad. And you
know this as a writer, Jordan, sometimes the concept doesn't
work from step one, and I think this is one
of those. There was no saving this book trying to
make it a business book. And when you look at
some of the emails that Jordan put out on her Instagram,
he doesn't seem really that happy with the rollout of
(02:17):
this book either. It might not be the book he
wanted to write. I don't even know, but that's sort
of where I start with this book.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Well, yes, and to be clear, I have not read
this book. Yes, you try to deliver it to me
over the weekend, and you know what, I went and
touched grass and saw the sun, and I would say,
like healthy boundaries, I think it, and I saw Sinners,
which was so master It was a masterpiece. It was
just masterfully done. It was amazing. So what I would
(02:42):
say is like, first of all, the process of getting
something published like this in general, when you're trying to
walk that line, like usually when you're writing the book
or proposal or something like that. I don't know if
he had to do that, considering he's such a name,
but you have to say what it's going to be
in order for people to say, Okay, I will put
money into that and invest into it. And in a
(03:04):
world where there are very few sports books that are
cracking through like the Zeitgeist, I would think that it
was I would imagine, and someone from their camp can
come correct me if I'm wrong. Imagine that it was
pitched as some sort of a combination leadership football book
and specifically about leadership. That's what the vibe I'm getting
(03:25):
from this, from the rollout, from all of it. So
that's one thing. The other part of is Greg, I
know what, when you see a book written by Bill Belichick,
who's like this encyclopedic mind of football, who has so
many stories, has so much to tell about the sport
and his experience in it, I could feel from our
conversations over the weekend that you were left wanting sort
(03:46):
of in that department of what this book was and
versus what perhaps you wanted it to be.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yes, Like you could tell it's positioning itself as a
football book because on the back cover, the top lurb
is by some guy Ray Dalio, who's like.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
A leader guy.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Oh my god, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I could tell that he's like a good guy.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
He's some guy grect, let's clear, but to me, like
someone who's in the world of the football is like,
I don't know who that is. And then the lead
blurb there is one from Brady on the cover. On
the inside cover is from Susie Welch, who he also mentioned,
who I also was not aware of, but I googled.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Okay, I'm just gonna rant a little bit like.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
The people he quotes are business, and it was like
a turn paper where you're trying to bring it back
every once in a while to like every few paragraphs,
to like how this can help you, and.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Like the like it's so clumsy.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Here's a little quote he had at one point, I'm
gonna write He's like, here's a motivation trick. When you
feel lazy, close your eyes and imagine Gronk walking into
your office, swatting you aside and taking your job. What's
he doing? How hard is he doing it? Does he
seem depressed to be working hard? Or does he just
spike your coffee mug on your head after sending that
email you were too overwhelmed to type. There's a lot
of that, and it just keep making me thinking, like,
(04:58):
did Bill Belichick actually write this book? Because there are
a lot of parts in it where it just doesn't
sound remotely like his voice, And there's a lot of
trying to connect it to you and your meeting room
and you and your emails, and you're like, what is
happening here? And it made me sort of think that
the book in general was like a fundamental misunderstanding of
(05:19):
why Bill Belichick is great, that maybe he even misunderstands that,
at least to me, I don't think he's great because
of his leadership skills. I think all the things there
are interesting things in here about running a team, in
leadership and all that, but it's because of his football, Accuban,
it's because of his game plans. There are a lot
of coaches that can lead, and we get none of that.
We get incredibly little of football in the book. Are
(05:43):
there are stories, and he tries to, you know, bring
it back to the business of it all. But it's
like a movie that had a lot of money in it,
and you can see that all these different hands were
in it and that no one really got what they wanted.
That was sort of like my overall takeaway, and it's frustrating.
(06:04):
He got mad at the ben Volean review, which to
me was very generous to it, saying it was like
a breezy read and that he left more for future books,
like it was a nice way of saying it it
was boring. He was mad about the ben Volean review
in The Boston Globe because he focused on the part
of the book, the chapter where he talks about how
(06:24):
I picked up how that can be like a really
useful phrase to have in your building up and then
he goes through a few things he piked up on
and the reason he wrote about that because it was
one of the only interesting parts of the book. It
actually seemed like it was from Bill Belichick. For instance,
he really regrets going forward on fourth and thirteen in
the Super Bowl against the Giants when they were eighteen
(06:45):
and oh instead of kicking a field goal, which he
thought that was his biggest mistake in the game, which
was interesting. I heard to talk about that, but it
always like goes back to these clumsy points. Right after
he makes that point about the field goal, he literally writes,
he writes this paragraph, if I can do that admitting
that mistake, you can admit that you forgot to take
(07:06):
the water mark off your PDF, or you can admit
you left a coffee mug on the conference table and
that left a mark, or admit that you had a
jammed copy machine. And it's just like, how much do
you think these readers are idiots? Like, not only do
you have no connection to the business world, it's sort
of a disdain for the reader that reminds me of
(07:27):
his press conferences, that reminds me of his interview with
sixty minutes that acts like you should be so lucky
to give you the little that I'm gonna give you,
and that's all you're gonna get because I don't really
think that highly of you. Which works when you're winning
super Bowls and you're at a podium. It doesn't work
as a book. You're just like, why is this guy
(07:47):
treating me like a like an idiot? And you know
that's like the business see part of it that drove
me crazy.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
I think it's interesting because that was I think one
of the greg the gregiest of all Greg Rants just
now got more.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I've got more got.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
He's wearing his Boston Celtic's sweatshirt.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
For our game one tonight. Nick, let's go.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
I do want to say it too, like I think
that expecting somebody to write the book you want when
they've proven that they're very, very good at like this
one thing. And I don't I don't know you. We talked,
I asked you about this, We talked about this. I
don't know who wrote the book. I I don't know
how much of his voice.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
To operate like he wrote the book because it's actually
the only name on it.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
But That's the thing is I think that expecting people
who are so gifted in this one specific area that
made them incredibly regarded, incredibly well known, in absolute dominating,
catalytic force, a disruptor in football for so long, who
changed the sport in so many ways, expecting him to
also be able to adequately convey like how he did
(08:51):
that in a way that connects with a side of
a building that he never like, a side of an
of an economy or an ecosystem that like he never
was actually in always had people doing it for him.
I think that it's like I would say, for me,
I again, I have not read it, but I would
go in with with no expectations. Okay for hearing before
(09:13):
people hearing there no, because you went on for like
ten minutes just now.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
So I will just say, I just want to answer
that that specific point. The only reason I would have
higher expectations is because he has such in affinity for
a the history of football, be books about football he's
participated in.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
This is not that book. He no, no, I get
that it's from them done in pages. It's clear that
this is not that book, nor is it pretending or
trying to be I'm not sticking up for a book
I haven't read. I'm also not dumping on a book
I haven't read. But I would just say like, and you,
I Greg, you are a incredibly experienced mind and voice
in this particular topic with such a background in it.
(09:54):
So I'm not like pushing back on your opinion.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I just want I would say why I had higher expectations.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
But right, and that's that's fine. But I would just say, like,
this is not that book, so you can't even start
from framing your perspective on the book from the from
the lens of Oh, Bill Belichick has a pen in
his hand and I'm going to learn some football. This
is going to be great. Like that's just not never
what this was going to be. And I think that's
what a lot of people are having a hard time
with about his image currently right now and some of
(10:21):
the chaos around it as it pertains to his composure
at or his comportment at at UNC, also his relationship
the larger narrative that's going on around him as a
brand right now. I think that it's like letting people
down because it's not the thing that they thought of
Bill Belichick for so long.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
When I'm not trying that hard.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
He's doing something and it's a book that is sort
of about how hard you need to work and what
leadership you need to show, and he's doing none of that.
The thing I was most disappointed by him in the
media was like, there could have been a good media
Bill Belichick out there, but he just decided to do
everything and try some harder at some than others and
(11:07):
just like crank through it, and he wasn't really trying
that hard at it. This book is written sort of
like a book by a guy who is writing a
resume for an NFL owner to hire him, or like
a political candidate who's in between elections and doesn't actually
want to say anything.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
And I think there could be a good Bill Belichick
book there.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
That's all because he literally has a Belichick library, like
he takes it so seriously. No one has worked more
with NFL films to like cultivate how people think about
him than Bill Belichick. No one cares about football history.
So in a book where you're talking all about these
principles and you're not like acting on it, because you're
kind of clearly phoning in the book, then you're just
(11:49):
like what am I doing here? And why would it?
More importantly, why would anyone spend thirty five dollars on this?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
So I'm going to try to talk for thirty consecutive
seconds now, So I just I'm just pushback. I'm just
saying I don't think he wrote it for those people
who have football expectations of him. I think, out of
the gate, like you're saying, it's written as like instructive
for people who, yes, he thinks he is, he probably
thinks he is more successful than and probably is in
(12:14):
many ways, and yes, thinks that he has something to
like educate people on. But he's not writing to a
mind that he's sitting in a room with talking to,
talking ideas back and forth. He's writing to an audience
that he feels like he's instructing. And so of course
it's going to feel derivative. Of course, it's going to
feel like you're being toucked down on and you have
(12:35):
higher expectations for this great figure in football who is
like one of the brightest minds we've ever seen, and
you just want more of that. But he's not writing
it for that, clearly. I mean this entire.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Francis he's writing is so Tom Curran, who knows him
as well and has covered him as much as just
about anyone. Yeah, he talked a little bit about this,
and he didn't think Belichick even wanted to write it,
and that's sort of what he was like, probably got
forced to write it from people around him. And there
were some emails that went out that you know, his
(13:09):
his girlfriend let out, I was looking for it now
where you know, he got very upset about some of
the language in the book and how the rollout's going
and the title of the book, which is you know,
he wanted the title to be something different, and they
called it the Art of Winning, which is either a
takeoff of the Art of War or the Art of
the Deal by Donald Trump. Either way, it's not like
(13:31):
one of the It wasn't what he wanted it to be.
He wanted it to be do your job, and it
just it kind of gets to it would.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Have been really good, why are you doing this?
Speaker 3 (13:41):
That would have told that would have told me more
about what the book is about. He's literally telling people
how to do their jobs, you know, like.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
I write exactly, that would be a great title for
the book, and that is what the book away, and
there is some legit takeaways in there. The one I
liked in terms of like office takeaways was good. He
was like, beware of the people that come up to
you on the first day of your job and are
really nice and say they'll do anything for you.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
And I was like, oh, that's a bark. That's a
good one. That's a good one.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Some of the football nuggets are great. I mean, there
are little things in here. That's the thing is he
could write about a book of a lot of great stories.
Like he has like one paragraph on Jimmy Johnson is
like where he doesn't say anything. It's a lot of show,
don't tell. Like it's bad writing in general. It's like
poorly edited. There are points referring back to something that
(14:30):
didn't exist, Like it looks just sloppy, and so that
like there are points that were said two paragraphs before
that are set again in a way that you're like,
I actually think they were editing this and it like wasn't.
Like it's just sloppy. So if you're saying, you know,
be a good leader, you got to be a better
leader of this book. But there are a few like
great little stories, like one was like about Antonio Brown
(14:52):
and how they had to pay him back all this
money because when he was with the Patriots, he had
sent this spec so like unfertilized milk to Tom Brady.
They were bonding over their nutrition stuff, but it wasn't
refrigerated and it was just sitting at Tom Brady's locker
and went bad and Antonio Brown wasted thirty five hundred
(15:12):
dollars and the Patriots decided to like pay for it
because they were both in such bad moods about it,
and it made Antonio Brown happy. And it's a longer story,
but it is kind of funny. And he used that point.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
So they literally cried over spoiled milk, Yes, exact like.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
He used that point to be like, sometimes you got
to make the important people at your organization happy, even
if it's just like doesn't really make any sense. And
you had it wasn't your fault, and he's like, and
we went on and we won that game, and Antonio
Brown had a big play in that game. And oh,
by the way, they cut him like two days later.
He doesn't mention like he mentions that, and he's like,
and they reunited and Tampa Bay and their football marriage continues,
(15:49):
and so instead of talking it all about like the
mistakes that he made, like even when he's trying to
cop the mistakes, he quickly sort of makes it sound
good or just the points don't make any sense.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Man, it's just a little cringey. I'm sorry, I am disappointed.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Yeah, And I think again, that's considering your perspective on it,
like in your history with with that franchise and all
of that. It's like, I think that's fair to look
at somebody who is one of, like I said, one
of our predominant figures in the sport right now and forever,
and to expect more out of something that you feel
(16:26):
came from his brain. You're kind of like, is that
what's in your brain? Because I know that there's so
much more that's in your in your brain. And I think,
like I said before, I think that's where the societal
collective is having a hard time with this entire like
reimagination and rebrand, even though I would argue that it's
not necessarily a total like actual rebrand, because he's acting
(16:46):
in a lot of ways that he always has acted.
But this entire like new era of Bill in the
college version, like it's it's just so it. People have
him built up as this figure, as we tend to
do in sports, and some of that is by merit
and by accolade, but some of that also is like, well,
how much do you really how well do you really
(17:08):
know this person who you watch mumble and be grumpy
on a podium and who very clearly and meticulously has
controlled his image and his brand for so many years?
Like how well do you really know the person across
from you on your TV screen and not, you know,
breathing oxygen in the same room as you. So I
think that that's where people are grappling, Like, like I said,
(17:32):
on a broader scale, people are really grappling with this
entire conversation right now. And I think that's why it's
piqued people's interests, because nothing humans like more than a
good psychological study.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yes, and like, okay, let's get into that part of it.
I do want to get back to the book a
little bit before we go, But like, I think how
the book is highlighting what's going on in his life
is interesting. The quote I mentioned before, he says, I
have at times relocked gone. Along with the title, the
cover and the language in this book. It's a little
(18:03):
bit of a problem if you're not happy with the
language of the book.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
And I get it.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
There was there was a part in the book where
he called Federer the goat of tennis.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
It was like Bill Belichick's not saying that.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
There's a part of the book where he had a
Patrick Mahomes quote that he said he would like to
make his cell phone ring tone.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
It's like Bill Belichick did not say that. Just like, okay, so.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I get why you didn't want to go along with
the language, like don't go along with the language. But
he says in the book and there are a few
a few bars Like I said, he said, the wrong
reason for mistakes is almost always ego. And that's sort
of my bigger point, which is like this book is
a mistake and it's about ego. This rollout is a
little bit about his ego, believing he can control the
(18:45):
narrative and that everyone else is wrong.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Like this book is not winning. It's half asked.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
And I know you're saying the expectations should be lower,
But like he I guess if he wanted to make
a good book, he would go he would do it.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
He's I'm not saying they should be lower. I'm just
saying it does not meet what is very clearly the
expectation people have of him as a football mind. And
he's he's not to me, he's not trying to reach
that world at all whatsoever. He's trying to reach another
collective group that perhaps he feels like he has something
to instruct them based on his status in the other
(19:22):
completely different world.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Was there used to like make a quick buck when
he wasn't sure if he was going to get back
into coaching. I just the thing that gets me is like,
let's can we get past? And I saw this written
in a column over the weekend, like can we get
past the point of people saying like bet Belichick doesn't
care what he thinks? And then he's he's in the
CBS interview and he's like, I never cared too much
what people think when he's talking about relationship, Like who
(19:48):
cares more about what people think? That the choice of
his sweatshirt with the hole in it is a very
conscious fashion choice to construct how he wants people to
think about him. And he doesn't like now that he's
losing like a little control. And I like his image
in the past, like it's an image that supports him
(20:08):
having a library of books and NFL films. It's a
guy who like loves football, and that image is not
in that book. But if you read those emails that
the Athletic, for instance, brought up with their public records requests,
and the one even that I don't think his girlfriend
is doing him any favors putting out there, it shows
like how much he really cares what people thinks. Throughout
(20:29):
his career. Tom Current talked about this on his podcast.
He's had favorites in the media that sort of are
his guys. He'll give a lot of information to. But
the second that they push back, even just a little
bit on him and have their own opinion about what
Bill is doing, they're iced out forever. That is caring
about what people thinks more than everything, And so I
do think it's okay to be a little disappointed in
(20:52):
him as a human on a weekend that Greg Popovich
is retiring and I'm just thinking, man, kid, does a
couple of the Bell Tech stories ever be like the
Popovich stories?
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Like?
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Is that too much to ask?
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Obviously it is, But I've invested too much in my
Belichick life.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
To just like totally let it go.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Yeah, And I get that, and like, Greg, trust me,
Like I feel this from you. We've texted about this,
Like I know that this is something you're incredibly passionate about.
I'm not pushing back against disagreeing with your opinion of
a book that you read and you took a lot
of time to study. I'm just saying all of our
sports figures in general, all of them, top to bottom,
(21:30):
every single one of them. The people you even see
on your TV screens talking about sports like they're human
beings with strange lives in a very strange environment that's
hyper competitive. That's a sickness in many ways that that
makes you ill to exist in for extended periods of time.
(21:50):
And then you're not, and then you are, and then
you're not, and then you are, and then you're you're
grappling with how to exist as a human within that space,
and then you become of that space. And Bill Belichick
a long time ago became synonymous with that space and
of that space, and I think became sort of this
hard and shell of a person that was like a
brand and a grumbler and someone we would just see
(22:12):
on our TV but I'm just saying, like with anyone
who exists in these spaces, whatever sport or media or whatever, like,
don't have the expectation. Just don't be cause they're gonna
they're gonna be somebody who you're not. You don't know
at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
That it's a great point, and I think it's true,
and this one hits I think just because I do
love football, and I love football books, and I love
Belichick as a football mind, and I think he does too,
and so I think that good book is in there.
I think maybe he'll maybe he still will write it someday.
But part of it is also I think what you're
(22:49):
seeing from some of his ex players who are willing
to talk out that's just like you forget that the
end for so many of these great coaches specifically are
not I mean, go through him. Vince Lombardi unfortunately, like
was kind of stumbling through an era in Washington before
(23:10):
he just died on the job more or less. Don
Shula the end it was not great. Tom Landry, the
end was not great. Bill Belichick's hero, Paul Brown, like
the end was was really tough. And I guess I
did have in my mind this like post career Belichick
that could be different, partly because he's he taught me
(23:32):
to do that. So I am going to recommend a
couple books, Education of a Coach by David Hauberstam, which
is with Belichick about him and his dad. Is like
that's kind of the problem is that, like the Great
Belichick book has already been written and Belichick participated it,
and like there are actually a couple little things in
this book. And then there's also a book Patriot Reign
(23:53):
by Michael Holly, which was a great insider fly on
the wall account where he's with the team for two years,
including their first which is or another they're O two
o three seasons, which are amazing. Like, read those books
and he participated in those books. Uh, if you want
to read good football writing and learn a little bit
uh more about it.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
And I hold out hope too that the that the
really good football book that like kind of preserves who
this person is in football's history. I hold out hope
for that existing top education. But I'm saying specifically, but
if he wants to write it by him kind of
(24:35):
plumbing some of the areas that maybe are yet to
be discovered. But yeah, and I agree with you. I
think that those are two really good examples. And again
I go back to the very start. It's hard. We
don't see a lot of those books come into existence,
that's fair anymore. There have been a few really great
ones over the last couple of years, but they are
few and far between when they do exist. And so
(24:55):
to me, this strikes a line between what does a
publisher want, what does a market want, what does a
marketing agency want? And how can I try to reach
and profit into this area where I can talk to
people sitting like at a what are these like pay
for attendance seminars that get held, like these conferences? It
(25:17):
kind of is like that, you know what I mean?
So like maybe that's maybe that's what it was, and
the next one won't be that. I don't know. It's
a long it's a long life. It's a long road.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
He according to those emails and sort of how he
reacted in the CBS interviews and the statement that he
made upset about how CBS you know cut the interview
does indicate that he wants the book to be taken
seriously and on its own terms, and so.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
So we tried to do that. Maybe maybe I'll write
another another book. It's funny.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
I was thinking, this is a small stupid thing. Like
he actually like points out how Bill Parcells was a
good communicator when he does like the if they're going
to make me make the meal, they should at least
let me cook the groceries, which is his famous line
on his way out of New England, and he mentions,
how like that's a good example of clear communication. And
(26:13):
I'm sitting there reading, like thinking like I literally read
another book, including you, Bill Belichick, where you made it
clear that you thought Bill Parcells was an absolutely horrible
leader for essentially phoning in his last couple weeks with
the Patriots as they were preparing for the Super Bowl
because he was already taking a job with the New
York Jets. And so it was almost an idea of like,
(26:34):
here's this Bill with ideals from twenty years ago in
a different book, and here's Bill trying to get that
cash grab, just like making.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
A very sort of lazy point years.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
One problem about books and about football and some of
the more binary ways football is covered and talked about,
is it freezes people in one period of times.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah, so That's one of the great things here out
him too. It really is. And this is a this
is a weird moment time for him.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Jordan, He's got he's got his son, Steven Belichick's wife
making like anti Jordan Hudson comments on Instagram, Well Steven's
on his staff, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Thinking, oh man, this is this is messy. Let's take
a quick break and let's get back. Let's talk some
news after the break.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
One of my favorite parts I didn't mention at the
end of that Belichick book is how he just thanked
like hundreds and hundreds of people and like hunt like
like a hundred Patriots players or more. And I was
just thinking, if you were one of those Patriots players,
like because obviously couldn't think every single one, it would
be heartbreaking if you're going fearing and your.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Name is not on there.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Like I was like, because he didn't mention Malcolm Butler
even once in the in the book, I was like,
you better have thank Malcolm Butler.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
It's like he did. He did did not mention Robert
Kraft though, did Yeah. I saw that.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
I I think my face is melted off after that.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I see review that.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
You if I really wanted to get into it. I'd
go into the couple reviews I've seen up. I mean,
give me a break, people, Why are you trading favors
by like having a decent review of Bill Belichick at
this point of his career.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
It's not going to help you out. It's not going
to help you out. Just be honest. Look, there's not
a lot of news, Jordan.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
There's always a couple of quiet weeks after the draft
where they do some rookie mini camps over the last weekend,
like the Seahawks at the Rookie Minnie Camp.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Some other teams did some more rookie minute camps.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Pop up this week. Some OTAs are starting up again
this week. But it's a little bit quiet. But we
did learn that Washington is going to host the twenty
twenty seven draft, an announcement made to great fanfare on Monday.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Definitely a new era for Commanders fans. I feel like
we say this every couple of weeks at this point,
with that new ownership group and coaching staff and quarterback
and infrastructure at least agreed to for that local stadium site.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
It is.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Yeah, it's it's I think we've seen how responsive and electric.
These cities regardless of where they are, whether it's raining,
whether it's cold, whether it's outside, whether it's inside. Like,
these cities really show up and show out for this event,
and the Commanders kind of keep stacking up these wins.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Here, great football town, great football fans. Pittsburgh I believe
has it next year, and so they keep going to
cool these cities that can't get a Super Bowl but
can have a draft, which is really cool. The announcement,
by the way, was made by Washington ownership and Donald Trump.
So just the reminder when there's like keep politics out
(29:46):
of football. It's like everyone's putting politics in football. Politics
are in literally everything, but they're going out of the
way to put politics in football.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
That was Yeah, I wonder how those crowd photos are
going to be manipulated.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
The fifth Your options were wrapped up over the last week,
and I just thought i'd throw it out to you.
Is there anything that stuck out to you with the
fifth year options?
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Ikia Kanwu kind of stuck out to me a little bit.
This is a Panthers franchise that's clearly not willing just
yet to give up on somebody they scouted, somebody they drafted.
All the previous previous regime did that. So I do
feel like this is uh that one stuck out to
me because they picked up his fifth year option. To
be clear, yes, yes that they did pick up his
(30:31):
fifth year option. And you know, if you at least
like some of the traits and you can keep a
tackle around for cheap for an extra year, I guess
you do it. But for me, I liked the maturation
of their offensive line as a collective over the last
season about season and a half, and he just there's
(30:52):
still to me so far for him to go that.
Maybe they think that they can continue consistency, the continuity
of staff of other people in that room will help him,
I guess take the next step.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
So, just to give some context for the audience, So
the fifth year option is for guys they're now only
entering their fourth year, but you're guaranteeing them their salary
next year at twenty twenty six. So for Ikya Kanwu,
that is a seventeen million dollar contract for a starting
left tackle locked in for next year.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
I think the general.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Consensus from people around the team and people that watched
them was that he probably did improve significantly enough last
year to at least feel good about his trajectory that
he's getting closer to average. And the crazy thing is
now is like these fifth year options, for the most part,
we're going to get it to one. That's an exception.
For the most part, are such reasonable deals that actually,
(31:47):
like I get it, like seventeen million dollars now, Jalen
Moore got that in free agency, like Cone probably would too,
Like it actually is probably worth it. And if you
wound up being your swing tackle even next year, it's
like it's not even the worst outcome. So so I
get that one. Well, while we're talking about Tyler, Lindenbraum
did not get his, which I was like, whoa w
(32:07):
that's crazy, But they said it's because of they wanted
to do a long term deal and because his fifth
year option was so beefed up because he's made Pro
Bowl all Pro I forget which one it is, but
that made it up to twenty three million dollars, which
is I get why they wouldn't do that.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Yeah, so if you do a multi year deal with him,
obviously you can help out your own salary cap in
the short term of that deal versus pay that significant
of a guarantee to somebody in that one fiscal year.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see them kind of
go heavier on the cash flow of a longer term
deal with him and then kind of avoid some of
those guarantees that that fifth year option would have provided
(32:44):
him specifically in.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
That year, right.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I do like that they put into the collective Bargaining Agreement,
which really does not help these orgies out at all,
these first round picks in general, that if you make
Pro Bowls, it bumps up your fifth option. Because he
was not taken early. That's why is twenty three million dollars.
And so I would be surprised, knowing the Ravens, if
they don't get a long term deal done with him.
(33:07):
They did pick up the option of Kyle Hamilton. Eventually
they'll get one done with him. Some other interesting one
Jordan Davis, who's just kind of been like a okay,
two down run stopper, does get his option picked up
by the Eagles. Some offensive linemen did not, Zion Johnson
for the Chargers, Trevor Pennying the right tackle for the Saints,
and then Evan Neil no surprise top ten pick for
(33:27):
the Giants. It's a reminder, Jordan. They always say, like
in the first round, when you take those linemen, it's like, well,
plug and play, Like there was always there, used to
be this idea that like offensive linemen were somehow safer
picks when they're just like every other pick there there,
there's inherent risk in every single pick.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
And those three did not work out.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Yeah, somehow to me that sounded still like a little
well Campbell shade. I know you're still not mbursing that pick,
but you know, I'm just I'm picking up I'm picking
up some subtleties from me here.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
You know, I was not thank you about that.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
So, yeah, those three guys didn't get the option. The
Packers actually kind of split the difference on their two
first round picks from four years ago. Little surprising. Kuay
Walker was a no. He's been all over the place
as an off ball linebacker, and I think they really
like Eddrin Cooper, so he's kind of replacing maybe what
they thought kuay Walker could do. But they did pick
(34:19):
up Devonte Wyatt their defensive tackles, so another score one
for the defensive lineman over off ball linebackers. And then
I just want to shout out Devin Lloyd, who I
think if I hadn't heard Ali Connolly's opinion, this wouldn't
have surprised me at all. Ali Connelly, for what it's worth,
thought our friend who's been on the show, that Devin
Lloyd improved enough last year that he thought he was
(34:40):
almost at like an all pro Pro Bowl level. It
was like one of the rising off ball linebackers in
the league. And the Jaguars obviously disagreed with that. They
didn't pick up his fifth year option. So that I'm
starting to make my list Jordan of a twenty twenty
six free agent, he could be an interesting one with
the big year.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yeah, I mean if he gets there, because I don't
think I think you know, it is coming from a
team building model that really devalues financially that position, whether
it's financially or draft pick. From that sort of like
Rams Tree from a front office perspective, But you have
not again guaranteeing a certain amount of money versus perhaps
(35:17):
getting an extension done might be a little bit of
a difference here. They said they need to get more
information on him, but I mean, the tape is the tape.
So I feel like this is at least someone we
might just at least keep an eye on in terms
of something multi year versus letting him totally hit free agency.
But they are trying to rebuild their core of their
(35:38):
roster at the same time.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
So and look, they didn't need to see more for
Travon Walker exactly.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Yeah, That's why I brought it up, that.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Said, it might be more of a system thing too,
Whereas like Travon Walker, you know what he's going to
do almost in any system, whereas they are bringing in
a totally new defense, which you haven't talked about much
at all, the Jaguars new young defensive Quarterator Campanil, I
believe is how you pronounce his yeah, and so seeing
how he fits in that defense. All right, A couple
other just small items before we get going the Ravens.
(36:09):
Justin Tucker is still on that roster. I thought it
was interesting over the weekend that John Harbass said a
kicking decision between Tucker and their sixth round pick will
come down to kicking, and that's it will be about football,
and that they're still waiting to find out about the
allegations for Tucker.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
What do you make of that? It's weird.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
It's typical. It's the thing that kind of irritates me
because it happens over and over and over again when
these situations arise, where in order to avoid the topic
at hand or having any nuanced or thoughtful discussion, and
also to avoid putting your foot in your mouth over
information that you maybe have not fully verified or research
or like things that could get you in legal trouble.
(36:52):
Like it is just the the blanket coverall excuse of
I'm actually not going to talk about this right now.
It will be a football decision. And so you see it.
You see it with everything. You see it with these
types of situations. You see it when people make questionable trades.
You see it when you know all all the time
that is code. That is football bro, football guy code
(37:13):
for I'm actually not going to talk about this with you.
So it just like I have no I have no
real comment or take on it because it's irritating. It's
just it's over and over again. This is what we see.
When it's a situation that is potentially very very serious.
Then you know, it's just it's irritating and it's derivative,
and it's it makes it infantilizes if I'm pronouncing that right,
(37:38):
and fantilizes an audience that is very much aware that
this is not just a football topic, as it pertains too.
Justin Tucker.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah, and they in Harbor even pointed out, look, we
took Tyler Loop in the first sixth round, then he
goes early in the sixth round, and I'm like, something
weird is going on here. He was prepped from hit
by his PR people before talking about Tucker. It might
be as something as simple as they're trying to avoid
any any filing from the NFLPA, that Tucker is getting
(38:09):
treated unfairly, that it's all about football, and that they're
planning to cut him at a later date because it
helps their salary cap more.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Who knows.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
There's no way Justin Tucker is kicking for them again,
I can't imagine, but he is still there on the roster.
They signed your old friend Joe Noteboom, by the way,
he will try to make that roster. Jerome Ford took
a pay cut in Cleveland, will go through the rest
of these quick and that just I just wanted to
mention that because that likely ends Nick Chubb's time in Cleveland.
They're pretty stacked at running back, and we'll see if
(38:39):
Chubb ends up in Chicago. There's been some talk about
that before. It takes like one hundred percent pay cut
to stay and there's just not room.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
I don't think.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
After the Browns drafted a couple players at the position,
the Bills signed Elijah Moore. That was rumored at so
those those Bills radio guys that Brandon Bean blew up
at like they should be happy you got Elijah more
in the building.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Was it like the next day too, or two days
later or something like that that It's like I could
just imagine Brandon Bean, who I like a lot, by
the way, I thought that was hilarious and and I
think those guys handled it really well too, because it's
always a bit of a shock when something like that happens.
But it's like I could just imagine of sitting there
with the transaction sheet as like his assistant GM and
just being like, gosh, we need to run this through
(39:23):
and then everybody's going to make the exact same joke
at the same time.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Oh my god. There were some rooky mini camps. I do.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
I am dorky enough that like I go to your
great site the athletic and see like the pictures of
Jalen Milroe and Gray's Abel and Elijah Royo and the
Seahawks uniforms, and just like.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Oh, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
There's quotes from them talking, that's cool Zabel. By the way,
he was left guard at the mini camp. They're not
going to use him at center. That was expect that
he's going to probably start at left guard. They're not
going to use him at tackle either, at least not now.
And Nick Iman worry their safety playing a lot near
the line of scrimmage. And it caught my eye that
he's wearing the number three.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
Who could have ever projected some of his traits? Yeah?
Who could have ever predicted? It's just cool. It's like,
I don't know. I like when football pays tribute to itself.
You know, yet another reason why you were let down
by the belt.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
I actually like.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
It, right, I like it when I like that Emmin
Worry is wearing Russell Wilson's number. Sometimes I don't like
the defensive players with the single digits, but there is
something I don't know.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
I actually like the other people. Maybe we'll hate it.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Speaking of defensive players who might be playing safety Jalen
Ramsey are last thing Sean McVay mentioned. I believe it
was on Adam Shin's radio show that they were interested
in training for Jalen Ramsey. He basically confirmed it that
that would be something that they were interested in, kind
of mentioned the timing of it all. June first might
(40:51):
be a big date here said other teams might be
involved in this as well. But it's clear that Jalen
Ramsey will not be on the Dolphins, and it does
sound like there's a chance that the Rams will be
the team he lands with.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Yeah, they've been saying this publicly and very openly since
the days leading up to the first round of the draft.
You know, they reiterated it again on Saturday afternoon after
the every round of the draft, like that he is
a player they would be interested in reuniting with. There's
there's no surprise there. Jalen Ramsey most likely wants to
come back to Los Angeles as well, had a lot
(41:24):
of success here, really understands knows the building. Sean McVay, Chrishula,
He's very close with those guys. So that's all makes sense.
It's the little old pesky problem of the Rams are
not going to pay a significant amount for this, and
Miami would have to absorb salary even post June first,
So that's the hold up here. It's like, Okay, all
(41:45):
of this sounds really nice, but how much is Miami
really willing to do here? Because the Rams they kind
of go about this process, and they went about it
this last year and then and certainly through the draft
where they did not pick up a corner and they
went out and they got Emmanuel Forbes last season to
play potentially on the outside behind either a Kella Witherspoon
(42:07):
or Darius Williams. Kobe Durant is going into his final
year of his contract, so they have a four deep.
I wouldn't say that it's gonna shock people or anything
like that, but it's a four deep and they're deep
at safety, and they got a couple undrafted free agents
that they really like who played well. Fam Kim Kitchens
also played really well. So it's like one of those
things where they do have leverage to draw Miami down
(42:29):
a little bit. And I think they know by now
that they're just not going to make fiscally unsound moves
heading into what will be probably a couple of big
spend years for them as they kind of try to
go all in with Matthew Stafford still at quarterback. So
this is one of those things where I think everybody
wants it to happen, but structurally we'll see. I would
(42:50):
predict he's on the Rams roster by training camp, but
like I said, we'll see.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Yeah, I think the need and the desire from all
parties will match up more than the desire anywhere else.
The trick is always can you get a guy to
take a little less money. I kind of doubt it
when it comes to Ramsey, but we'll see if he
ends up having any choice. That is it for today's show. Jordan,
thank you for depie up Fiery One. I mean it
(43:17):
was It wasn't at.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
You, no, I know, I just I could feel. It's
like when you're listening to like a Metallica song and
your face just starts peeling back, like they're not playing
to me or at me, but my face is still melting.
You know.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
I'll take that as a compliment. Let's hit the music here.
Jordan will be back. It's Big Jordan week. I believe
we have Colleen Wolf in the studio once to that. Yeah,
man Belichick did say the Patriot Way does not exist.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
I appreciated that in the book.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
So when the Patriot Way no longer exists, but the
man who said that decided to trademark the Belichick Way,
football is back
Host
Gregg Rosenthal
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