Wide Receiver and Tight End Prospect Rankings

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Patrick Claybon and Matt Harmon of Yahoo! Sports and Reception Perception for a deep dive into the 2025 NFL Draft's wide receiver and tight end class. Matt tells you why Travis Hunter is in a class of his own (03:45), why Emeka Egbuka and Tetairoa McMillan fall into the second tier of WRs (07:35), and discusses Matthew Golden (21:15), Luther Burden (28:40), Jaylin Noel (34:10), Jayden Higgins (36:10), and more! The show is wrapped with the guy's favorite tight ends (45:44) including Harrold Fannin Jr., Tyler Warren, and Terrance Ferguson.

Note: time codes approximate. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to NFL Daily, where we perceive all the receptions.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm Greg Rosenthal. I'm here in the Chris Westleying.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Podcast studio with Patrick CLAYBN, my friend, and coming to
us live from the East Coast Virginia. I believe the
man Matt Harmon, who created reception perception, who has never
seen a reception that he has not perceived with utter clarity,
and that's why he's themand to talk wide receivers and
tight ends.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
What's up, buddy?

Speaker 3 (00:33):
That was? That was the most humbling and gratifying introduction
I think I've ever gone on a show. You know,
it's funny, I guess if you think about it, like
the whole point of reception, perception is going beyond just
the catches and the production. So maybe that was a
bad name, you know, because like I should, it should
be like route perception or something. Now you've really got no,
you got me in a tailspin now about the whole business.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
No, it sounds.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
It sounds great because it rhymes, and I don't think
anyone until I came along, really broke it down to
its root meeting, which is that you have a more
of a depth of perception than other people.

Speaker 4 (01:06):
Yeah, it's putting out out front.

Speaker 5 (01:08):
Hey, we're going to contextualize the thing that you want
out of this process, which is a reception. Right, you
run the routes and you throw the ball in order
to have the reception. And so we're going to perceive
the receptions. And the man who birthed the idea from
his loins which has been duplicated, I mean imitated, but
never duplicated joining us on the show to talk about
past catchers, because again, you want the reception, that's what

(01:31):
you want.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
It's true we have tight ends today as well, and
there is a little part of me that feels guilty
when we just have matt On to talk receivers. It's like, oh,
it's it's draft season. Let's go, let's go break out
Harmon out of the closet to like, let's move monkey
and just talk receivers and tight ends.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
That's not all you're good for.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
You. You're a husband, you're a great analyst of fantasy
football that used to do you know, fantasy with Patrick here.
I believe you two guys probably attended each other's wedding.
So I'm feeling like I'm not I'm not as close,
but we did do a podcast back in the day,
Backyard Banter. I mean, you're just more than just reception.
Perception and receivers, but that is kind of your specialty. Harmon,

(02:13):
just accept it.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
I mean, it would have been really weird if you
brought me on here. It's like, all right, let's talk kickers,
you know, like, let let's talk whatever. It would be
a normal show. You're a great analyst. Well I appreciate that.
And yeah, I can confirm I was at Patrick Claibon's
wedding at mine, So yeah, boom, there we go. We
can officially put that confirmation out there.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
But how is that chemistry going to show up in
this show though?

Speaker 4 (02:37):
Like?

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Will it? Will people be able to tell the difference
that you guys are really that tight?

Speaker 3 (02:42):
No, I keep it. I keep it professional with everybody
on air obviously off air, as soon as as soon
as we click out of here, Like I'm going to
be very friendly with Claybon and very antagonistic to you Greg,
But that is just the that's just professionalism really here.
But I want to say here on the tight end
part of it, just off the top, I don't chart
tight ends, you know, for recession perceptions. But that's the

(03:04):
best part of this is that we'll do my very
you know, buttoned up like all right, I've charted every
route of these guys for the wide receivers, and then
with tight ends, we're just going to kind of shoot
from the hips. So it'll be funward.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
That's what we're doing from with everyone, and let's let's
just get into it.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Let's let's talk receivers.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
And I don't know, like your rankings, Harmon, And I
know Patrick's got some hot takes about these receivers.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
I don't know if he has a ranking.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
He's got some hot takes, and I've got some of
my own as well, So I don't know if you
have a pure rankings after going through them all, but
who's kind of in your top and break it down
by tiers.

Speaker 4 (03:39):
In the top?

Speaker 3 (03:41):
Okay, so yeah, I do have rankings. They are on
Reception Perception dot Com, the stacked rankings from multiple classes,
so you can kind of compare twenty twenty five to
twenty four to twenty three, et cetera, et cetera. Number
one tier of his own is Travis Hunter. To me,
if we're just viewing him as a wide receiver, I mean,
I really I think it's under sold just what an
incredible pure football player he is. Like, I think he

(04:04):
should clearly be the number one prospect in this class.
And it just like we use generational all the time,
and usually it's bad analysis. Usually a player is not generational.
This guy actually is a once in a lifetime football player.
So there's that part of it, just straight up. But
if we're just viewing him as a wide receiver, he's
one of my favorite receivers I've ever evaluated because he
just checks every single box ninety seven percentile success rate versone,

(04:28):
ninety seven percentile success rate versus press. I realized he's
obviously playing, you know, maybe some lighter competition in the
Big twelve, but he's dominating. He's obliterating that competition. He
also has rare ball skills, rare catching ability. He's excellent
and contested catch situations. He rarely goes down on first contact.
My comparison for him both as a mover off the
line of scrimmage just an overall receiver is like prime

(04:50):
Odell Beckham. So to me, like he is, he's up
there and perhaps even ahead of some of the guys
that went in the top ten of last year's draft class.
So he's the only one that I think is like
a true tier one. You could take this guy in
the top ten of any draft. He's already made starter.
He could turn into a superstar. He's the only guy
like that in this class.

Speaker 5 (05:08):
To me, I think the thing that runs people off
because like, if you listen like Steve Smith's thoughts on
Travis Hunters a wide receiver, there's the rawness and I
understand the Odell comp but then there's an aspect of
route running where I would like to equate it to
you have your standard golf swing, and then you have

(05:28):
your non standard golf swings. But ultimately what matters is
is where the ball winds up. And if you're going
for another across sport camp, if you're going form basketball shooting,
you look at Klay Thompson shoot the basketball and you're like, oh,
that guy is a much better shooter than this Steph
Curry character. But Steph has done it more often and
better than anybody who's ever touched the basketball, all right,

(05:51):
And so like I understand if you're looking at Travis
Hunter run routes, and then you say, look at Odell
and it's like, well, there's a different look. There's plenty
of different ways to go about things, but you can't
dispute the fact that he is still getting open.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
Well, he's also on the field for one hundred and
ten snaps and in the defensive meeting rooms.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
Like the thing that stuck out to me. We're not
going to spend too much time.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
I'm just because you're a victim of the circumstance of
the NFL daily week harm and I feel like it's
been a big Travis under week. We definitely talked about him,
and I'm with you. I would absolutely take him over
Harrison and Neighbors as prospects.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Just that receiver.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
To me, he is right there with like the Jamar
Chases and the best wide receiver prospects that that we've
that we've seen. And part of it is just like
the game slows down for him at such an incredible
level that you can see the football intelligence and so
if you add the intelligence and then the ridiculously athletic

(06:48):
you know skills that that he has, just his ball
skills and his reach and everything is just absolutely next level.
And then you you add in like one hundred and
twenty percent of the dog in him that he has,
Like what more do you want he?

Speaker 3 (07:02):
To me?

Speaker 1 (07:02):
Would be the number one overall player just as a
wide receiver and as a quarterback. But I'm more interested
now because I haven't we haven't dove as deeply into
the rest of the class. Let's say he's in a
tier of his own. There is a lot of disagreement.
I think about how to stack the next three guys potentially,
or depending on how you feel, the next five to six,
and then on and on, because it feels like it's

(07:23):
a deep class where there's a lot of guys who
are going to play important roles, but different views on
what types of players that these guys are, so a
little bit agnostic. Having broken down all the film, where
do you go after Hunter?

Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah, I think there's two guys that stand out from
the next chunk to me that I think there's a
gap between them and then everybody else where. I do
agree with you that everybody else is you know, like
late round one early round two type are a very
very good day two player. The two guys that stick
out to me are Tetro McMillan at Arizona and then
Amecha Buka at Ohio State. And the reason I like

(08:01):
Buka more than some of these other places. He's just
so reliable. And I'm a sucker for like this type
of wide receiver because they tend to you know, like, Okay,
he's just a number two. He's more like a power
slot receiver. How much upside is there with that? Nobody
complains about the upside of I'm on Ross Saint Brown
when he pushes to like lead the NFL in receptions
every single year and he is cut from the same cloth,

(08:23):
is like Buka to me, great zone beater, but I
think he's good again enough against man coverage in reception
perception to play outside awesome hands. Again, he's just so reliable.
So he is the guy that I would take in
like the middle of the first round. And yeah, okay,
he's my number two receiver, big, big whoop. You're getting
a huge value on that from what number two receivers
quote unquote are play are paid in the NFL right now.

(08:44):
So he's he's my three, and McMillan I have a
little bit ahead of him, just because you know, the
size profile is really good. He's just a like good
strong X receiver prospect, not perfect, which is why he's
not quite in that Tier one level. To me, there
are some game but you know, again, somebody i'd be
really comfortable picking in the first round.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
Okay, so those two guys are seventeen and eighteen on
Daniel Deremia's big board, behind Matthew Golden. By the way,
who will get to I'm sure soon's let's start with
like Buka here, because he's someone I've gotten back and
forth with when I watched him, and then when I
talk to people and I'm like, for instance, our friend
Mina Kimes thinks he's diet Jackson Smith and Jigba, and

(09:25):
other people think he's better than a Jackson Smith and Jigba,
and he's in that category. And the more I watch,
I kind of settled on that he's probably a little
below that for me, And it's it's what you want
to value if you're like Harmon and I think more
than any player in this class, he feels like a
very safe single or double. I kind of came down

(09:48):
on that maybe he's not quite special enough that if
I had to like rank him versus other guys in
the past like Smith and Jigba, I actually would put
him a little bit below. But he was a professional
in college. He's going to be a in the pros.
He's gonna be a good player. I think the ceiling's
a little lower, but that's fine because of what Matt
Harmon said. Now, is he gonna be a number two

(10:08):
like DeVonta Smith is number two? I don't necessarily think
think that. No, I don't think he's that type of
number two. But he's gonna play in the NFL for
a long time, and in this draft where you don't
know anything after the top four or five, like that
has a lot of value.

Speaker 5 (10:20):
Yeah, if we're if the if the goal right is
DeVante Smith, then that that's gonna be tough to find
right in the draft in general, other than the other
than Travis Hunter. With Abuca, I I would like to
see the explosion if I'm going to have him ahead
of ahead of Golden Right or even like Higgins, We'll
get to where I just need to see the elite traits.

(10:41):
I think some of the things that and I'm not
saying this is building Matt up, but it's building other
people up. With a BUCA is the uniform, and there's
a little Ohio state, and there's the idea that oh
this is you're getting scary Terry, you're getting pre transferred JMO,
you're getting Olave.

Speaker 4 (10:55):
I just I don't see any of those.

Speaker 5 (10:58):
No, I agree like that that ability to explode away
and north of two hundred. I would have liked to
see just a few more broken tackles and making more
plays in space. But I understand there is an absolute
value of knowing where somebody is going to be and
when they're going to get there, and that's what makes
him a safe pick. But I'm if I'm trying to
hit home runs in this raft, which is I think

(11:18):
is what you should try to do.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
Doubles are fine doubles in this class. Like if he
was a running back, he would be David Montgomery to me, like,
just like those were a good get. That's it's really
good and it's why I have him fourth. I do
have him behind behind Gold and T Macmac, by the way,
says he wants to be called T mac. So that's
that's what he yeah as his first name, essentially, So
I will do no.

Speaker 5 (11:40):
And I do wonder with the age right at twenty two,
he probably never saw Tracy McGrady play basketball.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
Ever, No, you're right, that's fair, so he can take it.
It's fine, it's been it's been a generation. Abuka will
be like, you know what, he's really good at, Matt
and I'm this is probably where he banks really well
in reception perception.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
He's very good at catching the football.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
You know how when that the quarterback throws it to him,
it's like this kind of crazy shape and the ball
comes at different speeds and they come in different directions.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
A lot of times with Egbuga it's over the shoulder.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
He's good at putting his hands up and then he
catches it like that's I feel.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
Like it's pretty important thing.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
I feel like he gets underrated though wide receiver like
he is. Actually, all these guys at the top are
have good hands. I would say none of them, they're
all plus, But to me, he's like extra plus. So
is do you want to fight back against anything that
Patrick said there?

Speaker 3 (12:35):
I think it really is like what you value. And
this is kind of the hard part about like ranking,
especially the wide receiver psition. It's hard for any draft
prospect in general, and just an entire class worth when
you're not looking at it for a specific team or
a specific system. Because like I love i'm on Rossaint Brown,
the player that I compare Agbuka to, but he probably
wouldn't be that guy on every single team, right Like,

(12:58):
and this is the tough part with this ar type
of receiver is that you get them in the right
offense and you can flow the entire thing through them.
But then at the same time, like you look at
these guys who are primary power slot players, and you know,
sometimes because of the size or build or whatever, they
might get played more outside in a certain system and
it's not quite the same statistical results. So I just

(13:19):
love a guy that I think is B plus B plus,
B plus maybe A minus, is a zone beater across
the board, and I think I can drop him into
pretty much any offense and he's going to give me
a nice floor of a player. But I do think
there are certain systems and certain offenses around the league
where he'd actually be one of the most productive wideouts
in the league. Just on the JSN comparison, just because
I want to come back to that, I like JSN

(13:40):
a touch more as a prospect. I've basically put it
that I think JSN was a flashier player because he
was a better man coverage beater than Agbuca is. But
I think Buka is probably a superior like dirty work
guy and like more of a rugged receiver.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
Yeah, and they gave him the boss so much because
Buca that is like in the backfield, he played running back,
full back like he has a lot of like and
he'd always get what's blocked. And that's why I thought
about Montgomery like he's a seven to eight yard type
of guy. I don't know if he has the downfield
pop of Saint Brown or JSN. In the end, I

(14:14):
didn't evaluate Saint Brown like coming out of college, so
it's hard to compare him to them. But in terms
of a pro I think that the floor's you know,
maybe higher than these other guys. But but McMillan, I
kind of came into it, and I hate having some
you know, thoughts ahead of time of what you hear,
and maybe it's a little bit of a prejudice. And
I expected to not like him as much as I

(14:36):
did for whatever reason, and I loved him. And I
think if it wasn't for all the plays that he
doesn't if he's the number one guy. I think in
maybe the last couple of classes where if you only
watched his targets, he would be ranked higher than if
you didn't watch the rest of his snaps. And that's
why I get why DJ's got him number eighteen overall.

(14:57):
That's why I get that he's not the just the
home run number two behind Hunter, because I think if
it was just his targets, he's probably the home run
number two.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
I really like golden two, and we'll get to him.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
But I thought, like the other the other snaps like
weren't as good, Like he's a better guy. I'dn't actually
tell me because I'm just flying off the hip. Did
you great him better versus zone than man? Was there
a big difference there?

Speaker 3 (15:23):
Yeah, Like it's actually pretty close. Percentile wise, he's a
fifty ninth percentile man coverage beater, he's a sixtieth percentile
zone beater. So it is like very neck and neck,
but he's actually the in terms of success rate versus man,
press and zone. Relatively, he's best against press coverage, which
I actually kind of did, like, I'd almost completely disagree
with what you said about him being like I like

(15:46):
more watching him when he doesn't get the ball, because
I think when he gets the ball if you're just
watching his targets, you kind of bucket him into this
like big ball winning, lack of separation receiver because he's
in so many contested situations. But I think the best
part of his game and the reasons that I think he's,
you know, like, to me the number two if we're
putting out Travis Hunter, he's the number one receiver in

(16:08):
this class is because he's so good on these like
inbreaking routes, particularly like posts and digs and stuff like that.
So I kind of settled on a Courtland Sutton comparison
for him, like somebody that is probably like an ideal
high end too, but you can get away with him
being your number one receiver. That's generally what I see
when I look at t Mac. But it's a good
prospect profile overall. Not quite like a Tier one player

(16:30):
to me, but there's a lot of things to like
about him. He sneaks up on you after the catch,
so really it is like the plays where the ball
doesn't go his way and you see him as but.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
He doesn't try that hard. That's my number one thing.
I think the effort was bad. Hear you on that, well,
I think that's huge and that kind of goes along
and you never know at this time of year what's
true or what's not with that kind of criticism. But
it reminded me a lot of Ady Mitchell from a
year ago, who to me had big red flags on
his tape that he just didn't try that hard one

(16:58):
on a lot of plays, and that felt like, well, McMillan.
McMillan seems so upset all the time that he wasn't
getting the ball enough. He certainly wasn't interested like run
blocking or when he wasn't the primary guy. And I'm thinking, like,
this is the most productive receiver in the last few years,
just about like he came in averaging eighteen yards per catch.
He had thirteen hundred yards both years. He's awesome. I

(17:19):
really think it's gonna work out for the most part.
But I would want to get to the bottom of
that that that to me, there were just a lot
of There were a lot of routes where it's just like, man,
I'm not like where there was a couple where he
just literally stood there.

Speaker 3 (17:33):
Well, I was like, come on, yeah, he probably should
better than he is, but he's still no.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
No like, but he was the primary guy I think
like when he got the ball, he was freaking incredible.

Speaker 5 (17:43):
I think to contextualize some of those things, right, Okay,
so October fifth loss, October twelve he lost, October nineteen loss,
October twenty six loss, November second loss.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
Right, some of these are by like twenty seven point.

Speaker 5 (17:57):
Yeah, they're getting run out of the stadium routinely. He's
the leading receiver. There's a guy we'll talk about who
had an even bigger number, but he had like forty
four percent of their passing yards were yards that were
thrown to Temac and so like. And I understand, but
the amount of volume placed on him in the passing game,

(18:19):
especially at a big height and weight, I could see
where that could cause you to, yeah, kind of frazzle
in many situations where if you're not the one on
a route, like why am I selling out at six four?

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Well, because you might get to number two on the route.

Speaker 5 (18:35):
And I think, right, if you go back and watch
the Colorado game, a lot of folks are like, hey,
it's the Colorado game. Show that if he plays some
talent in the defensive backfield, you're not going to get
the production. I saw him turn a defender around and
get six yards of separation and a ball hit the
water cooler after it hit his hands. And then I
saw another deep pass that would have been a spot

(18:56):
foul on pass interference that in college football just got
fifteen yard and so you're taking away the impact there
where I just saw this dude have nothing more than impact, yes,
in games.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
That's why I would bet on him in the end, Like,
I just find him fascinating. I think he'd go in
so many directs I've heard Michael Pittman as a comparison.
And then that's where like, if he doesn't have kind
of the next level explosion or something, you've got to
be a try hard player. You're gonna need to block
with a type of inside player that he's going to
be like.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
And so that's you want him to be that guy.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
But just for a little background for people who aren't
familiar from Arizona, like, like I said, thirteen one hundred
plus yards fourteen hundred plus yards. He came into this
season almost knowing he was going to be a high
pick and that that's a tricky spot to be.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
And you do wonder.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Between him and Will Johnson, two guys who are kind
of expected to be top five picks coming into it.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
It's their teams are much better.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
Maybe that does explain a little bit of whether it's
effort or just any In the end, he got it done.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
I actually think he's a.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
Much better guy after the catch than Courtland Sutton, for instance,
likes he's a good yeat guy, like he really dunk
on guys.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
He can do it all. I think he has a
great natural feel like that.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
That's where I I don't know that I have so
many comps just flying around, But like George Pickens, like
he's got a he's got not as a player, but
just as a feel for the position.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
I think he's got that.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
He he's football smart, is I guess how I would
put it.

Speaker 4 (20:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
I like to do comps in like kind of archetypes
and families of receivers, and I think he belongs to
the family of receiver. That's like Michael Thomas, Drake, London Gap,
you know, Michael Pittman, Cortland Sutton, like these bigger guys
who are better separators than you think. But I think
he falls closer to like the Sutton Pittman zone. But

(20:38):
there's no question that like if he fully dials in.
I think he could get a little bit closer to
Drake Lenn, but I have a very high opinion of
Drake len and that's just where well.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
And he was making a lot of plays like down
the field, and like I said, was not like he
would go down at first contact. Basically, it's not like
he's breaking tackles. But he's a smooth athlete that made
a lot of great, great plays after the catch.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
So I find him fascinating.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
I have him, I have him right there with gold
and I haven't really made a decision. So we'll talk
about Golden after the break. We'll talk about the rest
of a very fascinating wide receiver class right after this.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
Back on the NFL Daily, a man.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
With the biggest water bottle I've ever seen, Matt Harmon,
it's right next to you.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
Aways will just show it off.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
It just feels a little show Offye, it's a little bit.

Speaker 3 (21:30):
I mean, you shouldn't am better than you because I'm
more hydrated than you. That is, that is for sure.

Speaker 5 (21:36):
Your water bottle should increase with your mass, and Matt
has put on so much mass.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
It's true, very few That's what I mean.

Speaker 4 (21:42):
He's gonna be at the two gallon water bottle very soon.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
It's true, is Matt is a year away from I
guess you're not going to be six four like Tep McMillan,
but he's going.

Speaker 5 (21:53):
To be a draft site. The twenty seven NFL Draft
will be at matt Harmon.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
The goal is to next year at the combine, you know,
provided that they let me go back, is to like
slip into just such one of the jumpsuits. Well, I
definitely get into the bench, slip into one of the
jumpsuits and see if I can get like some random
beat writer to start asking me questions.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
A lot of us, a lot of us. Iron's body
lately too much. Let's talk about your next tier. So,
Matthew Golden, who you mentioned Steve Smith for instance, it's
his number one wide receiver. Jeremiah really has the top
three basically the same sixteen seventeen eighteen overall on his board,
but he does have Golden first. Some people I trust

(22:36):
we had we had on Ali Connelly earlier this week.
He had Golden I believe as his kind of cleared
number two along with Team Maac. Actually not clear, but
could kind of those two grouped together as a strong
two behind behind Hunter. So where do you have Golden
and give me kind of this tier what you have
lined up.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
Yeah, Golden's my next guy after a BUKA. I really
like Matthew Golden. And what's the rest of the team.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
First, before we get into Golden, I want to hear
Rasil by himself.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
Now, Luther Burden and Jalen Knowle actually out of Iowa State.
This is kind of like the guys that I think
are late first rounders, early second rounder types. I think
Golden's really good player. He comes out excellent in terms
of success rate versus ozone coverage. I don't think I
think his I think his route running like in the
short area is not ideal, but he's an excellent like
once he builds up speed, he and to be honest with you,

(23:28):
I never saw him as like a four sub four
three player, but he's obviously fast. He brings you verticality.
It's really he's more like just when he snaps off
routes again, particularly inbreakers, he just gets so so significantly open,
particularly against like off. Yeah, it really pops, and he
to me would fit so well in a positioning that

(23:48):
like Jordan Addison found himself in which is he's across
from a great number one, and he can be a
very very good number two. It gives you maybe not
consistent production, but like chunk plays and explosives on the field,
and probably from like that offensive family tree as well.
So I really like Golden. I think he does. He's
got good hands in contested situations. It's actually one of

(24:09):
these guys that the harder and more difficult to catch
the higher the catch trait is. And then if it's
just some of the more routine stuff underneath, he will
occasionally put too many balls on the ground. So to me,
I just like I think there's more upside with some
of the other guys. I think Golden looks like just
more of like a like a good solid number two
receiver in the NFL who's probably going to be more

(24:30):
tactically valuable to a team because he opens up space
for guys underneath. Then he will be like productive in
a top receiver role when you ran all the numbers.
So people who aren't familiar, you should check out Matt
Harmon on all.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
The podcasts he does. He does some football three zero
one with Nate Tice. He's got his own podcast with
his fantasy podcast at Yahoo. But he also does Reception Perception.
That's his site. That's the supplementary in supplementary income that
he makes, which is all it's important in the game.
You got your b big job, but then he's got
a little side job. And so if you are into football,
I highly recommend checking that out subscribing. When you broke

(25:08):
it all down and this is proprietary stuff here, when
you broke it out down with Golden, I'm curious if
anything stuck out, just like in terms of how he
wins or whether he was just kind of consistent across
the board.

Speaker 3 (25:20):
No, I think if you look at like his route tree,
like the route success by route chart, it really is
the stuff down the field, nines, posts, corners, digs outs.
But where I think, and this is just what I
get hung up on, is that he's kind of average
to below average on curls and slants and stuff like
that where he's going to just like rack up consistent production.

(25:41):
I think that's the part where I didn't really see
like a clear cut Round one player and I saw
more of a very good complimentary guy. Again, if he
lands in a spot like like once the draft happens
he lands in a spot like Dallas where he is
across from a great number one wide receiver. Like, then
I think that's a really good situation for him. But
where I wouldn't want him to go is somewhere where

(26:02):
he has to then step into that number one wide
receiver role because I think he's again more tactically valuable
and like as a compliment than he is is a
true number one.

Speaker 4 (26:09):
Yeah, it did.

Speaker 5 (26:10):
The landing spot always is going to matter for for
all of these guys. But I think when you have
elite traits, like his explosiveness is elite, and you look
at the tape and it shows up there. So, like
Matt mentioned in the end Breakers, I think there were
a lot of passing yards that Quinn yours might have
left on the table.

Speaker 4 (26:29):
Yes, having golden he.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
Let him almost show off the boss goills because it
was I had a lot of great catches because they
were on bad throat.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
But the Queen's been doing that for a few prospects.

Speaker 5 (26:42):
He's had some guys in some situations where like we
might have underrated, say if you're worthy because of because
of the way things kind of turned out there. And
so like I know they had him returning kicks. I
didn't necessarily see the broken tackles as a as a kicker,
because you get this idea that this is a kick
return that you get on the ball in space it's
going to make.

Speaker 4 (27:02):
There wasn't a.

Speaker 5 (27:03):
Lot of that, but the explosion leapt off the screen
in a capacity to me that I can't push him
down past other guys who don't have Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
To me, he's so smooth.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
I went back and forth between him and McMillan in
the end, but to me, I would have them kind
of clearly ahead. Cause to me, he's not a similar
player to Buca. But to me he has a very
high floor. And maybe I'm wrong about that. He came
on and had at a big year, but he seems
very good at a lot of things. Just a solid,
as you're saying, wide receiver too. But I do think

(27:32):
there's a little potential for him to be closer to
a DeVonta Smith, not that he's exactly the same player,
but in the same way that when people were saying, wow,
the size, like you knows, not ideal sized, I don't care.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
The way he played.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
He plays very strong for his size, so I'm not
worried about his size. He pushed guys off, like off
press coverage, like he almost he brought it on and
I thought he succeeded a lot when he did it.
And so that to me was like, Hm, is there
even more here where he can be like a really
one of the best second receivers in the league or

(28:04):
a top twenty five receiver. You mentioned McLaurin, and I
think it was was it John Ledyard who made that comparison,
And I can kind of see that, like in a
perfect world, maybe he wins a little bit like McLaurin.
And obviously you know mclaurin's like all pro level, that's
next level, but you can kind of see how McLaren
fell in the draft. I kind of see that, and

(28:25):
so I like him a lot. I think it's a
really good wide receiver class. To me, there's a pretty
big drop off after those four, but not for you.
You have Burden and you have Noel in this class.
So kind of go through your process in what you
think about those two guys.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
Yeah, with Burden, he's a tough one man because I
think if you grade to the Flashes, I think he
looks like he could be the best receiver in this class.
The problem is that it's not all flashes like I
do think he's a bit of a similar to T Mac,
where I think T Mac's a bit of a misunderstood player.
Is this just like big non separation ball winner. I

(29:01):
think Luther Burden is a little bit too miscast because
of how he was used as like a Mickey Mouse
pop gun receiver, like it just kind of a design
Touches gadget player. There's actually, to me a lot more
to his game potentially as a as a man coverage beater. Again,
it is flashes because he faced more zone coverage than
any receiver I've charted this year, and only one other

(29:23):
prospect in like the entire prospect database I have, which
is about one hundred and fifty players now has faced
more zone coverage than him, and it's just because of
that role that he's playing in. So again it's flashes,
but still sixty eighth percentile success rate versus man coverage
right over seventy percent, which is an encouraging number. It's
primarily on these like outbreaking routes where he was really
really good, I mean ninety point nine percent success right

(29:44):
on out routes really really encouraging number for him. The
problem is he's facing all that zone coverage and he's
like an average zone beater. He just gets caught up.
Sometimes he runs himself into zone coverage. He doesn't have
the best feel for it. So I think there's, honestly
the best way to say it is how good is
Luther Burden going to be? Like that's up to Luther Burden,

(30:05):
because he's another guy that came into this year with
like a lot of hype as just that he's going
to be a top ten pick. He's the best receiver
in this class. And you know, people kind of think
he mailed in this season. And I think normally I
wouldn't say something like normally I wouldn't say something like that,
but I think it shows up at times that he's
just not fully engaged with what's going on.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
I think that's true.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
But I so I went back and someone was like,
you got to watch his his junior tape or something
tape and stuff. That's but I thought it was there too,
like he maybe popped a little more, but the effort
was kind of came and went a little bit with
those two earlier.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
He is a very exciting player.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
But I struggle and maybe you're going to push back here,
Patrick with like just how does he fit into a team?
I think that is sometimes lost in the draft knicks,
the industrial complex. If there's one thing that's probably missing
the most that I would say is a knowledge of
like how teams work and what's working in the league
and how he's gonna fit. And Burden feels like, man,

(31:07):
you better have a plan for him, And I'm not
totally sure. So I hear you that it could be
really exciting, but it could be To me, he looks
like for most teams like a fourth receiver that you're like,
how do we use this guy?

Speaker 4 (31:18):
Yeah, and there's that danger of the gadget guy right
right that gets misused.

Speaker 5 (31:23):
And I think the difficulty in what needs to be
done is you need to evaluate what he can do,
because I'm not sure Missouri was really featuring that, especially
in twenty twenty four. They brought on Kirby Moore as
the new offensive coordinator after the twenty twenty three season,
and they went from the twenty ninth ranked offense in
college football to fifty five. Right, the points per game

(31:44):
dropped by seven and you just watch and you're like, okay,
like show me what you can do, Luther, and the
offense is.

Speaker 4 (31:53):
Keeping you from seeing that. Like I really don't think
just in.

Speaker 5 (31:57):
Terms of evaluating what the offense him an opportunity to do,
like because it was the same quarterback and you're just wondering,
like the crispness of if you're gonna ding Luthor on
the Christmas of the routes and the way he proceeds.

Speaker 4 (32:10):
Yeah, I kind of want to see the offense operating
that community.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
Tyler Warren, who will get to it was just kind
of like, hey, run over there, you know, just like
it's kind of run over there and we'll figure it out.

Speaker 5 (32:22):
I don't know, but one thing, right, he punishes bad tackling.
If you were not in the proper position, Luther is
going to make you play. And if like you're a
Nick Immunori fan that South Carolina game when they were
when when there was one on one, Nick got him
on the ground. But then to this to the same extent,
when you finish that game, Luther runs a slot fade
with a minute and thirty seconds to go and wins

(32:44):
the game. Right, So you saw like his ability to
separate and to make plays the catch point, but you
need to have Maybe if the.

Speaker 4 (32:54):
Tackling is not yeah, up to snuff, he's going to
make you pay.

Speaker 5 (32:58):
But if guys are out there it can move and
have the physical capacity. He's not breaking tackles to the
extent that you'd want, Like, Okay, this is our this
is our Deebo.

Speaker 4 (33:06):
Samuel, which like nobody should do that anymore. Stop doing that.
But like if you think.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
But he is that he is that guy in this
class if those guys out more lately, maybe that's.

Speaker 3 (33:15):
What he's But he's so much better against man covers
than a guy like Deebo Samuel. That's what That's where
I get. I come down with him that I think
there is more to his game. There's room to grow there.
And like I mean, like he could use him like
Rashi Rice is used with the Kansas City Chiefs. So
if you don't like Luther Burton's usage, I better not
hear he's saying, like Rashie Rice is one of the
best young receivers.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
In the league.

Speaker 3 (33:35):
Like I just I think you can use him in
that way and you can develop more from that.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
See maybe it's maybe it's just the time in like
the NFL evolution that we're doing this show that I'm
just like less into these guys now than I would
have been. Like to me if he was going to
be a Chiefs receiver, he feels more like Canarius Tony.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
But I'm I want to go back and watch guy.
I don't feel like I watched enough.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Of all these guys, and sometimes it's the games that
that you catch them, and I did try to go
back to to the older ones. I mean, he's a
he's a really exciting player. I think he's one where
fit is gonna matter even more than most. I think
that's true of Noel though as well. So it's interesting
that you put him on your list this high.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
Jalen Noel.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
So he's five ten, one ninety four, very interesting profile,
fast forty, but was more of like a vertical slot guy.
And so that's the type of role I think he
would have in the NFL. The trick is, to me,
kind of going back to what I said with Burden two,
is like how many teams know how to use that?
How many of those guys really are there? You kind
of need to do a lot of things. Do you

(34:35):
think he can.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
Do a lot of things Jalen Noel, Oh.

Speaker 3 (34:39):
Yeah, like this is my type of receipt. Okay, From
a reception perception standpoint, he's very similar to like Lad
McConkey last year from a man coverage standpoint. From like
more of a full profile standpoint, I actually think he
compares pretty well to Josh Downs, who, like I mean,
Josh Downs would be a much more productive player if
he wasn't playing in that Colts offense because I think

(34:59):
he can give you a lot of that like downfield stuff.
You saw that with Drake May at UNC. So yeah, Noel,
I agree with you. More of like a vertical slot receiver,
which that's what I want out of my slot, Like
I don't want them to just be that pop gun
slot receiver. Kristen Kirk is a comp here's Christian Kirkson.
Like again, in that same I think family of players
as well. And I mean I think Kirk he got

(35:21):
a lot of you know, grief for the contract that
he signed, but he was a really useful player for
Jacksonville for a while. So I just this is the
type of player that I think gets pushed down because
they don't fit like traditional positional you know, size and
kind of deployment. But you get them in an NFL
receiver room, and whether they're the two or the three
or whatever, they're just a really really useful player.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
You got to find the right the right fit. He
he does feel unless he but you're saying he can
do more.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
And I like that. I want to go back and
watch a little Jalen Noel more.

Speaker 5 (35:52):
My question with Noel is why Noel before Higgins?

Speaker 2 (35:57):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (35:57):
Yeah, and and that can be a transition to your
next group, which I assume Jaden Higgins his teammate. They
complimented each other very well, I thought at Iowa State,
but you have Higgins lower, give me your next tier
and then and then yeah, let us know why why Lower?

Speaker 3 (36:11):
Yeah, we're like now in the squarely day two zone,
which I'm not like, Higgins is not next on my
list here. I've got guys like Jack Besh, Kyle Williams,
Trey Harris. Uh So you hate I don't. I mean,
I don't hate Jaden Higgins, but like I am a
little confused why everybody's a lot higher on Jaden Higgins
than some of these other guys, because like he just

(36:32):
doesn't separate enough to me, Like like that, that's that's
the problem here, especially against like pressman coverage. So to me,
I don't think he profiles as an NFL X receiver
like teams are talking about, like Greg where where the
league is going, Like teams are moving away from this
non separation, you know, big X receiver like what people
think McMillan is. I think Higgins actually is now that's

(36:54):
not useless in the NFL. And by the way, like
I felt very similar a lot of the parts of
Jaden higgins rofile in terms of him being like a
below average press man coverage success rate player, very similar
to like Keon Coleman last year. I did this whole
breakdown on YouTube about it, where like these guys that
are sub thirty fifth percentile and press and man coverage
and reception perception, all the prospects that were that way

(37:16):
that have gone on to be successes in the NFL.
They've transitioned from outside receivers to big slot receivers in
the NFL. Jujus ms Schuster I mentioned Rashid Rice. I'm
on Rossaint Brown was this guy, So like there's a
path for Higgins, but he is very much one of
these guys like tell me what team he's playing for, Like,
tell me how this coaching staff is using him, because
I think if he has used the right way, then

(37:39):
I think, like, okay, he could be in that's in
that like archetype of player where he's this jumbo slot
receiver who's really good against zone coverage, who catches everything
not he's got like an alligator arm thing, and like
kind of that ninety degree angle and contested situations like
let's use that whole wingspan, Let's stretch those.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
Short though I feel like they're no.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
The one with a massive wingspan is the one that
the arms are short, which is uh, which is a
tough one. I liked him less the more I watched him.
I liked him a lot right away, and then he
felt like the same experience. He felt like it was
kind of inconsistent, which is which you don't want because
I don't. And this is where I probably disagree on

(38:20):
Burden to consensus was I didn't think his his skills Higgins,
that is, we're special enough to kind of make up
for it. And I actually kind of felt that with
Burden too. I thought to be that type of player,
you have to really snap, you have to be really
special and I didn't. I didn't quite get there for him.
So I'm kind of with you on Higgins that I
think he's an NFL player, but I don't think in

(38:43):
the end I came like as high on him.

Speaker 4 (38:46):
Yeah, it's the it's tough again. The traits right too.

Speaker 5 (38:51):
I can't run away from those when those are those
are something when you've got the the wingspan right. And
I understand and Matt, that's absolutely right about the criticism
of up at the cap, at the catch point, where
that's a place where if you're trying to separate him
and McMillan like that, there's a notable difference there. But
just to have that explosive in this and if you

(39:12):
want to like watch that that Houston game, I saw
him making guys miss at that at that height and weight.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
Where it's exciting.

Speaker 5 (39:21):
It gets me, It gets me excited and thinks, well,
the ceiling is there, and again you're trying to hit
these home runs and they there were multiple teams that
literally had no answer for him.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
That's fair.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
That's why I think it was all like some games
were good and then some games just didn't seem like
he had a great feel that's that's probably what I
value the most. I mean, it's all about how you
were raised as a as a as a fan or
a wanna be draftnick. I go back to, like I
always like like the Kiri Colbert and Mark Clayton types,
the real receivers, receivers that maybe kind of like in
a book or golden who you feel like you know

(39:53):
what you're getting and they really can run the routes
and they can snap off and they can do everything.
But my other type, and there is one in this class,
and we already talked about him on my last show,
so I'm not going to repeat myself, but my guy
in this class to try to hit a home run
is definitely Kyle Williams. And to me, if you told
me he's your third or fourth receiver in this class,

(40:13):
I get it. Like I would be fine taking him
personally in the first round because I see it all.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
I love these some Kyle Williams. Why why don't you
love him quite as much as me? Matt Harmon, I mean,
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
He's pretty highly ranked for me, and again I think
he's a guy that is I would put him in
a tier ahead of even Jayden Higgins. I mean he's
kind of like the middle, like a sort of a
no man's land between, Like you're not quite like a
round one guy, but you're not like a clear.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Why okay, why is any around one guy?

Speaker 1 (40:42):
Because he is a guy I kept watching and being like, Yeah,
what am I missing? Because he's got he's got so
many dogs in him, All of the dogs are in him.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
He's can I can I be vulnerable here? In terms
of why is he not a round one guy? Part
of this is because I think he's the type of
receiver I've fallen for, like way too hard in the past,
where he's like a smaller separator who does win at
all three levels, but because of the size in the frame,
like how many quarterbacks really want to take that throw?

(41:15):
Like maybe there's a little bit of like Elijah Moore
scarring here, honestly, because I think he's of a say
Andy Isabella, No, he's I don't know about it. Don't
don't put me into Andy Isabella fan club here, but no,
I think I think with Kyle Williams, he does come
from a lower level. That's part of it too, you know,
he's not quite like these guys that have only lined
up on one side of the field at one outside

(41:37):
receiver position, like seventy plus percent of their snaps in
reception perception. It's actually like a long list of red
flags there. He's not quite in that bucket, so he
does miss that for me, but it was pretty close.
I think he's just a guy that can play all
three receiver positions. He can make plays after the catch,
he beats man coverage. So yeah, it's it's hard to
find a lot of flaws.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
I don't see. I don't see the flaws. Yes, he's
not he doesn't have the size or whatever. But if
you're if I needed to pick one player from this
class that that would like make Pro Bowls that has
a you know, I think that that isn't gonna get
taken in these tops. I don't really seem that far
apart from from t mac or Golden. To me, he's

(42:19):
right there for me personally, because I just I don't
know man and uh I like to celebrate like he
just he just seems like an NFL player to me.
I just h he seems like a like receiver. Smart
is the word I would use, where he knows how
to do everything and he's super explosive, like he's a
home run hitter and he can hit some doubles too.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
I don't know little Washington State Kyle Williams for go.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
Koog's like, to me, he's not that different than Jamison
Williams as a prospect who I probably overrated too.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
Maybe I'm like you. Maybe I'm like, okay, maybe that's
too much, too much.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
He don't seem like out running the No, he didn't
test that.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
Well, he's not.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
He doesn't have the the like just pure home run
speed like that, but he's got enough of it to me.

Speaker 5 (43:00):
The the explosion in the separation like to put him
in that category, I just I didn't see it to
the extent where I watched a little little Williams and then.

Speaker 4 (43:09):
I'm like, wait, let's let's go on to somebody else.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
Oh, how dare what a hater?

Speaker 2 (43:16):
I'm not.

Speaker 4 (43:17):
I'm not trying to hate.

Speaker 5 (43:18):
Let's celebrating the explosion of other guys because I am
biased towards that.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
Okay, So that that's Harmon's big group there. We got
to get to the tight ends before we before we
wrap up, so we will. Unless you just have something
that you're dying to say about that group of wide
receivers that Matt Harmon just feels like passionately about and.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
To get you I love Yeah, I love Jack Pash Dude.
The guys he's a really good player, gets open, catches
everything he's really he's talking about, sneaks up on you
have to catch, Like, he really breaks a lot of
tackles in the open field. Maybe a guy that needs
to play in the slot because he certainly like I mean,
he's like nine route success rate his corner route success rate.

(43:59):
They just flat out stink like he doesn't get open down.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
The field a little going to the end.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
I mean, but I guess when you're open everywhere else, Like,
just find the right deployment for this player. I think
he just makes a lot of sense with a team
like Jacksonville that you know, you got Liam Cohen there
you're coming from, like that RAMS organization. From the front
office perspective, They've just made such good use of this
type of receiver, Like why can't he just be in
the role that Chris Godwin was in for Liam Cohen

(44:26):
last year? I think that just makes so much sense.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
I don't think he has the juice personally.

Speaker 5 (44:31):
Well, I mean, since we're going to talk tight end, Yeah,
at two hundred and eighteen pounds, Yeah, could he fulfill
the receiving role that like Evan Ingram and I understand
it was a different.

Speaker 3 (44:41):
Kind of has. Yeah, there's times in his career, yeah
he has.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
Or like not I was going to see zach Ertz
or something.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
I just I do worry about him that there's not
a lot of team I think he has a very
specific skill set, and I think we've seen guys like
him to me in terms of that snap and that
I do worry about him open against NFL players, But
we'll see there's a lot of smarter people than me,
including you and Jeremiah love them, and so I hope

(45:08):
I'm wrong being a little more down on him.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
Let's talk about the tight ends.

Speaker 5 (45:11):
So many times where a guy goes to mobile and
has that week where it's like it feels obvious, and
then in hindsight we look back and like, oh, yeah,
we should have known after what he did to all
those dudes.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Obvious in a positive way.

Speaker 4 (45:23):
Yeah, Like why why weren't we on board sooner?

Speaker 1 (45:26):
Well that's interesting because I would say Kyle Williams and
Besch maybe helped themselves as much as anyone. So they're
they're there are two guys that were down in Mobile
and yeah, as they say, that's that's where the NFL
Draft starts. Let's take one more break and then we'll
wrap up with the tight ends. Back on NFL Daily,

(45:47):
wrapping up with the tight ends, and this is just
gonna be vibes harmon harmon. For some reason, it doesn't
do tight ends.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
And reception perception. I mean, they are receivers, Okay. Can
I tell you why take too long?

Speaker 4 (46:01):
Wow?

Speaker 3 (46:02):
I mean you you spoiled it there.

Speaker 4 (46:04):
I was going to give you. I was going to
give you.

Speaker 3 (46:05):
I was going to give you the dork reason, which
is okay. You know I've been charting receivers now for
twelve years. I've been doing reception perception. So like, okay,
I can tell you this player has you know, is
this percentile versus man coverage? Like this is the type
of role, the type of offense, everything he could play in.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
You can compare really good years. That's really cool. I
like that.

Speaker 4 (46:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
I mean, for you've got guys in the database that
have been there, there through there their entire career, like
Mike Evans his entire career is in the reception perception database.
You know, we start over with tight ends. We're going
back to square one.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
I don't know what's right about How old are you, Harmon?
You're still a young man. How old are you? Well?

Speaker 3 (46:41):
And I'm thirty three.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
I'll be thirty four this year to be in this business.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
This leads me to my second point of why I'm
not going to do it, which is I'm a happily
married man. I'm trying to say, happily married man, Buddy,
I got enough receivers to do. You know, the requests
that come in in the reception perception discord. It's like, hey,
chart Ricky White, out of un there's too many receivers.
I got enough on my plate.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
But this is where you know I would never had
a chance to work exactly with you. We were both
at NFL Media at the same time, and it was
what a star. Harmon was a shooting star, and they
they messed up letting letting Harmon go from the fantasy department.
But you know, he had a great opportunity. But if
I was going to give you advice sort of in

(47:26):
a boss role here, I would say like well, forget
Ricky White. You know, Tyler Warren and Colston Lovelin, these
top guys, they're more box office then your fourth to
seventh round receivers. So maybe just don't do receiver twenty
threes through sixty and just do like the stars of
the tight ends, and that would be good for just
people's interests.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
People would pay for that, That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
It sounds like, Greg, you want to do the tight
end now.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
Potentially I like bringing you back to more our level,
which is we're not just doing our vibes. We watched
these guys, but we're not breaking it down like Harmon does.
I do think you should wait Harmon's opinions. No offense,
Patrick more than ours, none previous conversation, but this one
we're on equal footing. So do you like I'm going

(48:12):
to start with Patrick then, because it feels like there's
a big two. It feels like there's a big four
at tight end this year, but really the two guys
Colston Lovelin and Tyler Warren, who Jeremiah again has in
the top I think ten of his overall players. I'm
I'm not sure where Loveland landed there. They feel like
the Big Two. Do you have a favorite between those two?

Speaker 4 (48:33):
Yes, I have a Big two, but it's one of
those is not in it?

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (48:36):
Tyler Warren is such a mechanized destroyer of worlds that
does so many different things.

Speaker 4 (48:41):
He has to be the te one.

Speaker 5 (48:42):
The explosion is quantified by the tight end, by the
combine work leaps off the screen, so he's my te one.
Harold Fannon Junior, my fury, though, is one of my
favorite players in this draft. The production is off the charts.
I have beef with our production score from NGS, which
somehow has one as as more productive than Harold fan

(49:03):
and Junior, who literally had more catches at tight end
than anybody in the history of college football last year.
He is twenty years old. Shout out to Michael Florio.
I'm keeping track of ages here where he will be
twenty one coming up in July, so he's a full
year younger than Colston Loveland. He ran that four to

(49:26):
seven in Indy, Okay also four to seven and Indie
Keenan Allen. Right, when somebody does things so differently in
a different way and they still produce, I think that's
unique and unique.

Speaker 4 (49:38):
Talent is what you want. I am a Harold fan
and junior guy.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
I love I love that because you know, going way
back to the combine when we talked with Nate Tice,
he is as well and just thinks he's such a
unique player. And actually think bucketing those two guys Matt
makes sense because I sort of don't know fully what
to do with him, and I'm with Patrick in the
set that I actually would feel more comfortable probably going

(50:03):
drafting Fannin ahead of his consensus. Then I would which
will probably be what second round, if you really want
to make sure you get Harold Fannin, then I would
bet in the farm on a top ten pick for
Tyler Warren, just because I'm just not sure he's so
unique that I'm just not sure he is. He special
enough to be like almost different than any tight end

(50:26):
out there where he is not to give the Debo
comparison again, but he's like tight end Debo, you know,
it's like just this guy you got to get the
ball to that's got to run people over and just
destroy you.

Speaker 3 (50:38):
Yeah, that's my thing with Tyler Warren is I do
think he's very similar to some of the receivers we
talked about where it's like what team and like what
offensive coordinator is he playing for, because I think he's
kind of gotten a reputation as he's just a traditional
inline tight end who's really good as a blocker. But
like I think that's just because he plays in the
Big ten and like he's like a tough guy, you know,
because I think he's more of like a singular design

(51:00):
touches type of player. Like the positive side of that
is that, like the Raiders did a lot of work
to design things for Brock Bowers last year. Which I'm
not saying this to take anything away from Bowers just
because they didn't have anybody else to throw the football
care you know, I mean, but I just I'm not again,
I'm not taking anything away from Bowers, but like when
a tight end is that much farther the most productive

(51:22):
player on your team, like most concepts in a playbook
don't like run through the tight end, So I think
you just have to take that like extra work to
make him Tyler Warren that is, depending on where he goes,
Like the production is worth the squeeze that you're putting
into it there, But if he lands with the team,
I mean, you know, like a like a Ben Johnson, right,
Like I mean, I think he could really find ways

(51:43):
to use him because he's not too dissimilar to Sam Laporta,
who I think is another guy that kind of because
he comes out of Iowa, he gets this reputation is
like a rugged tight end. But you've really had that.
The Lions have had to do a lot to design
things for Sam laport and obviously it's been more than
worth it for them.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
See if I was or a perception, I would be
curious how he would if he was rather Tyler Warren,
I would be curious how he would play out on
that because he seems even more like a burden type,
which is just kind of like, hey, run over there
and throw it, And I do worry it's really hard
to like evaluate football.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
Smarts for lack of a better word, on the field.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
But he's such a unique player and it took him
so long to get on the field that that worries
me a lot. And the people I trust that I've
asked around the league are quite low on his blocking,
in fact, like it might be a huge negative. Whereas
Colston Lovelin, who's lighter and stuff, he just fits more
what you see as a tight end, and he kind
of fits more of a mold of a guy that like, yeah,

(52:44):
he's not much of a blocker in college, but like
we can build him up and we can teach him that,
and the want to is all there, and Warren's just
such a unique player, and his unique skill is not
route running.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
It's just like watch out, here comes.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
Tyler Warren, and it's so unique and it's so awesome
that it really might work.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
So I'm with you.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
Like if I think the Jets are another interesting spot too,
because they're going to be running a Lions type offense
with their coordinator and Tanner Rankstrom. But if if you're
asking him to just play tight.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
End, I'm more worried.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
And that's why I like Loveland more because to me,
it's like I would take Loveland on twenty six twenty
seven teams, and.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
That's where I like it. To me, he's like.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Maybe a Laporta plus even where like I can see
the I can see the receiver skills. I think he's
gonna step into the league and be a nice tight
end for you right away.

Speaker 5 (53:31):
But I think in his usage at Penn State, he
was a victim of his ability. Yeah, so where it's like, okay,
well he's our wildcat quarterback, not because like we're trying
to force feed Tyler Warren, but because he's the best
in the.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
Best athletes, best player by far.

Speaker 5 (53:46):
Yeah that could put in that position, and so he's
going to get those volume target opportunities, not because like
that's how you get him the ball, but because he's
he's the best player on the team to do that
to where like a few years ago, like all those
player would be going to like say all right, or
just like any other good Pin State player, but because
it was him, Like that's that's where a large volume

(54:09):
of his opportunity came from. But then you see him
when he is split out wide, when he is in
the slot running a seam, like he teleports away from
corners in safeties, Like the explosion is there.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
It picks up.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
You're right, like we didn't test at all, which is
a little bit of a worry. But uh, but he's
he's one of two players at least in this class
where I think, well, would Taysom Hill plus really be
a bad outcome. Taysom Hill is a pretty useful player.
I'd be a little worried both him and Jalen Milroe,
you know, who are very different players, and I think

(54:42):
Milroe would be plus plus, but I'm like, actually, Taysom
Hill plus plus would be kind of great. I just
I would be a little worried about taking him, like
in the top ten between the rest of the the
tight ends. Harmon who stands out to you?

Speaker 2 (54:56):
Who do you like? Who don't you like?

Speaker 3 (54:59):
Yeah, Terrence Ferguson from Oregon. I think is like a
classic like bet On a you know, bet On an athlete,
bet On the traits and I do think he actually
could end up being really, you know, really productive down
the line in his career. Maybe not like right away,
but that just seems like the type of tight end
who hits. I think he I like his ball skills,
I like just the movement skills for him. And Mason
Taylor from LSU. I know a lot of people really

(55:21):
like Mason Taylor. I do as well. He just is
it seems like a good like maybe you're not hitting
the A plus like outrageous high upside tight end, but
something in like kind of that zach ertzish range where
he just catches everything and he becomes a really good
complimentary part of your passing game. I think those are
the other two guys you got to kind of watch
out for.

Speaker 5 (55:40):
Yeah, a player that was exceedingly productive from the moment
he got to LSU to where it feels safer, Like
I would say, Mason Taylor to me is a safer
prospect than than Loveland just in terms of that wow,
as a pass catchwork, because like I know, I know
blocking is important, and like, yeah, ideally these guys are
going to be Gronk or George Kittle, but.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
Like none of them are coming into NFL, really almost
none of them.

Speaker 5 (56:03):
Yeah, so like I'm evaluating them as pass catchers.

Speaker 4 (56:07):
Yeah, I prefer Taylor to love one to.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Me Loveland and I did go back to watch a
couple of the June the games before when he had
JJ McCarthy as his quarterback, which definitely helped.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
I think he has a higher ceiling off the bat.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
But I'm with you that in this class where so
much feels uncertain, if I'm comparing Mason Taylor to some
of these like DL five guys, who it's just like, man,
it feels like there's a fifty percent chance they're going
to be total bus. Taylor feels like a first round prospect.
To me, he feels very much like the tight end Agbuka,

(56:42):
where he's he's gonna be good and me and if
the outcome really is Ertz or like closer to Goddard,
I mean that's even better than that. I mean, if
doubt if you put Goddard back in the draft, like
he's going top twenty, like cause you can lock in
like a plus if you can lock in a plus
starter at any position, especially to And I like them
a lot too. And there's really different opinions on Arroyo

(57:04):
because that type of player has busted a lot lately,
which is like the big like receiver essentially, and yet
I'm into him. I don't have them too far behind Taylor.
I like these tight ends. I would not I would
not mind taking these tight ends again ahead of like
those two guys, ahead of wide receiver five six seven
for me, like I have Kyle Williams up with Golden

(57:27):
and stuff. But after that, I think Arroyo is a
really good pass catcher and I'm into it.

Speaker 5 (57:33):
I would just like when you're playing with a quarterback
that's going to go number one overall and you only
miss one game the thirty five. I'm gonna need more
production out of him to leave frog these guys.

Speaker 4 (57:44):
Sorry, Matt, what are you going to say?

Speaker 3 (57:46):
No, you're good man. I just think it's a really
interesting tight end class as well, and like, get these
get these guys in the room, maybe develop a few
of them. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a
couple of guys who are, you know, kind of close
to those those wide receivers here and maybe they end
up being more just useful.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
And the crazy thing is there are wide receivers and
probably a tight end or two that we just didn't
even talk about, and that they're they're not only going
to be starting within a year or two. They they
will be like impact, big time players. And it's just
we don't have all the time in the world. But
it was great to talk to you, Matt Harmon. Here's
what we're going to do. I'm making a I mean

(58:22):
it's more of a threat than a promise, because yeah, newsflash,
not everyone like loves going on other people's podcasts. It's
ultimately like other it's more work and I'm going to
try to get you to do more work. And it's
going to be a podcast that's not just about wide receivers.

Speaker 4 (58:38):
Next time there.

Speaker 3 (58:39):
Is all right, I will take you up on that
and we'll see. I might just end up sneaking in
wide receiver talk anyway. I mean, we know, it's not
like we can't talk about it. Maybe it'll be like
workout tips. We're deep into the eye. We can talk.
We can talk about that, we can talk about you know,
egg quality, all kinds of things, man. So it was good.
It was good to see you both. I'm gonna be
out in LA next week for our Yahoo Sports Live

(59:00):
Draft show, so I hope to see you both.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
I would normally say like we should get you in here,
but you're gonna be busy, so everyone check them out
at Yahoo. We're gonna be here in the studio on
Draft night. By the way, Patrick, I don't know if
I've mentioned that I have to use shout out to that. No,
we've talked about it to the listeners. That's it for
today's show. We are back. So this is actually gonna
be the last NFL Daily you hear for a few

(59:25):
days because we have a forties and free Agents with
Daniel Jeremiah that's going to drop on Thursday. Then We're
back with another forties and free agents. That's going to
go Monday morning, and then we're off every single day
next week to cover the NFL Draft And yeah when
when Matt Harmon's lugging around that gallon water bottle, Football's back.

(59:48):
Welcome to NFL Daily, where we oh wait, do that again?

Speaker 2 (59:52):
I sicked up