November 8, 2022 • 34 mins
We all love seeing those slow motion replays that reveal facts that cannot be seen definitively in real time. In a game that is becoming more and more precise, NFL referees have the impossible task of being everywhere at once to observe the action and make calls accordingly. To help them get every call right, there are cameras capturing the plays from every angle. In this episode of the NFL explained. podcast, Mike Yam and Michael Robinson take you through the evolution of the instant replay and talk about where it may be headed in the future.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
NFL Explained is a production of the NFL in partnership
with I Heart Radio. Art is a brand new edition
of the NFL Explained podcast. Mike Yam and it's my guy,
m Rob. I miss you, man. We've had a good
flow going. You're usually in the studio with me and
then all of a sudden, you're at home. Now we're
(00:27):
going virtual on this. Yeah, we're going virtual on this one, Yams.
But it's all good, man. I had to do some
stuff with the kids, throw the football around, take some
field trips. I'll be back in the studio here pretty soon.
So I know. People were actually wondering if the field
trip included a ride to the Selfie Museum. Yeah or nay, no,
not the Selfie Museum, not quite yet. But I may
(00:48):
go there before I get on the flight to come
out there, which is good and it kind of leads
me down a path of what this episode is. When
I dropped the selfie museum right because we all have
our phones were attached to technology. I know everyone right
now who's listening to this podcast, like, think about this,
m Rob. You and I are old enough and I
like being able to say this. It was like it's
the old school of Vetera. You and I are holding
a back at my day we had a walkman and
(01:09):
the whole thing. But think about us, like people are
consuming our show on podcasts or even now on YouTube
and they get to go and see us with makeup
on and the whole thing. Yes, let's bring it. But
do you do you get that vibe that like we're
almost too attached now to technology and maybe the game
might be a little too attached to the tech. Well
a quick answer, yes, I believe society is attached to
(01:32):
technology a little too much. Just go walk through what
we used to call malls, middles, things that shopping centers
and stuff stuff. Absolutely, you go to a mall and
now everybody's looking at their phone, everybody's looking down. You
go to a school where a bunch of kids are
everybody's looking down. So I would say, yes, we are
(01:53):
a lot more attached to a technology today than we've
ever been in human times. Okay, so I'm gonna throw
this year way. Some people are listening to this podcast, like,
what's this technology in this NFL deal? All right, now
it's about to make sense for you today we are
all all about technology in the NFL. On a specific subject,
something that we're all used to seeing. We see it
every single Sunday, every Thursday, every Monday. And you know
(02:14):
what I'm talking about. It's all about instant replay, camera
angles all over people and fans talking about officials not
knowing what they're doing. Look at the end of the day,
and I should preface everything that I'm about to say
with legitimately, m rob, are there calls that are missed? Yes?
Are the officials do? They do an absolutely incredible job
in real time? There is no doubt in my mind
(02:36):
there's some of the best officials that we have in
professional sport across the board. We get to be armchair
quarterback in the moment because we're at home watching TV
seeing everything in slow mode, frame by frame. Can you
imagine having to make some of these decisions like this, No,
not having it. It's tough, man, it really is. Yes,
(02:58):
it is tough. I don't know how they do it,
but at the end of the day, they're paid to
do it, So I'm not gonna let the referees off
through too much. But bro, it was two times in
my career in the National Football League. I have some
times in college I e Penn State, Michigan, one second
left on the clock. All Mike rob fans, you know
what I'm talking about there, But I think it was
two thousand nine. Brett Farve, he was playing for the
(03:19):
Minnesota Vikings. Into the game last play, like a fifty
or pass or something like that. Brett Farve kind of
scrambled around and threw a bullet to the back of
the end zone to a dude that wasn't even on
the team that week. Greg Lewis, Okay, this dude was
like just chilling on the couch and where they brought
him in and then he ended up catching the game
(03:39):
when it passed the back of the end zone. And
then one of the ones that everybody knows in twelve
to fail. I'm not gonna say it's a fail Mary.
It was a hell Mary that worked go to take
card it over, like three or four Green Bay Packers
players made It was awesome. It was so dope. We
had the replacement rests that that particular game, and I
remember seeing one. I remember being on the sideline because
(04:00):
it was base personnel, so base personnel, I would fullback
wouldn't have been in the game. In the end of
the game, situations. But I remember one ref putting his
hands up as a touchdown and the other ref just
waving his hands like this, and I just said, you
know what, sprint to the end zone, get Golden up,
get him up out of here before they change their mind.
(04:21):
We won the game. It's pretty cool. It was awesome.
I actually have heard a lot of stories one of
your teammates, Evan Moore, and I know I brought him
up a couple of times. It's a good bunny of
mine was on your one of your teammates. At that point.
He actually gave me some intel that we used last
season on this podcast. It was all about Hail Mary's.
So I do encourage some of our fans maybe to
check out that episode going through the inner workings. Remind
(04:42):
me when you're back in the studio, I got a
question to ask you about that one. But the point is,
at least on this episode, when it comes down to
instant replay, we're gonna go through the historical timeline. We're
gonna give you some stats will tell you what we
think is about to come. But I do think it's
important to start at the beginning here ninety six. The
origin of this NFL director of Officiating, that's Art McNally,
first experimented with instant replay by bringing a video camera
(05:05):
to stop watch to a Dallas Buffalo game on Monday
Night football, trying to figure out how long a review
would actually delay the game, because I know this is
a big critique for people, right like you got, oh,
it's gonna extend the game and the whole deal, Like
at the end of the day, we're going to the
timeline and how it might not be as big a
factor as you think. He saw a miss call though
on to play with O. J. Simpson that would have
(05:25):
been corrected with a replay review, and he thought it
could benefit the NFL. Nineteen seventy eight, two years later,
the NFL actually tested instant replay during seven preseason games
broadcasted on National TV, beginning with the Philadelphia Miami Hall
of Fame game, but overall the performance of the camera
system and the cost to install a little prohibitive, so
(05:46):
they actually tabled everything for a few more years. Taking
the nineteen technology actually improved so much that the owner's
voted four and one to add instant replay in a
limited capacity for the eighties. Six season replay officials sat
in a booth with get this to VCRs if you
don't know what Yes, VCRs dude, what happened to us? Man?
(06:07):
We used to be young, right, Like I'm actually saying,
like there, I know that there's people like what's the VCR. Yes,
there are. I remember I used to have to record
young and Restless in the general hospital from my grandmother
when I was for your grandmother. Okay, yeah, sure, sure
if you say so. Um to think about that, like
when you had to like make a mixtape, remember that
(06:29):
you had to like hit plane record at the same
time playing the like it's the whole thing. But the
replay officials they had two VCRs there so they could
record and watch back plays. In that first season, there
were one point six reviews per game, with only ten
percent of the plays overturned. In just the third play
from scrimmage in six we actually got this right touchdown.
(06:53):
So the use of the instant replay on the third
play from scrimmage and the new year already the new
rule of the National Football leg you so by instant
replay official has given the Browns that touchdown on an
otherwise very confusing play. VCRs man, VCRs dude, it's like
tracks for us, you know what I mean? Like? Okay,
(07:16):
So despite that m ROB in n replay was actually
shelved by the league over concerns that it wasn't efficient
enough and that nine of the ninety overturned calls were
in fact incorrect. We then have to fast forward our VCR.
What the new system actually addressed, issues like delays penalizing
coaches with the charge time out on an incorrect challenge.
(07:39):
It clearly worked well because in two thousands, seven teams
voted thirty to two to keep instant replay permanently. Now,
that same year, team spent three hundred k a piece
to install high definition replay systems that were five times sharper.
The league designated a hub in New York where senior
officiating members could be in contact with officials on game day,
(08:01):
and then three years later, all game day decisions would
be made by dead CATD officials at Art McNally game
Day Central in New York and ROB. So there's an
evolution that's here that we're seeing through instant replay, how
it's installed. In your mind, is there something that could
be improved upon? When you watch these games and you
see what these three play officials are doing. I think
(08:22):
just having a sky judge, just having somebody that can
see egregious calls, can see things obviously missed obviously to
have something to do with the success of the play.
Just a sky just to be up there, just to
kind of have the referees back, to have the officials
on the fields back right if they miss something that
has something to do with the play, that sky just
can buzz in and be able to interrupt and be
(08:43):
able to get it right. Because at the end of
the day, we all want it right. I don't care
if you're on the side of the car where it
benefits you or you're on the side of the car
where it doesn't benefit you. Everybody wants to get the
call right. In this past spring, I was with the USFL.
I did some some of those Spring games, and it
was just interesting to hear the back and forth between
the referees right that their microphones were always open. As
(09:05):
a broadcaster and as a viewer, you're able to hear
kind of their thought processes and what they're going through right,
and even the reviewable plays Like it was just cool
to just hear that. First of all, their job isn't easy,
not at all, like the way that the speed at
which this game moves. Obviously, we're all fans of the
game too, so to stop yourself from watching the game
(09:26):
from an entertainment standpoint and watching the game from a
standpoint of actually officiating it is a very difficult thing
to do. Just talking to some of the rest of
that I talked to down they're being able to officiate
that game. But I think having a sky judge and
maybe having just audio opens that we are actively listening
to how our referees come to their conclusions. Yeah, I know.
I think that transparency is huge and it could be
(09:46):
really beneficial for fans who are very quick to point
to mistakes and feel like, no, no, how do you
mess that thing up? Like it's not that easy, And
dudes aren't just sitting back, you know, watching the games
like we do on our couch right like it is.
It is a very different vibe for a lot of
these games that I don't think people really think about
too much. But it is really important to explain at
(10:07):
least the exact process once replay and rob is actually
triggered in a game. So I mentioned the Art McNally
game Day Central location. They use brand new technology. It's
a new system and it was installed last year. It's
called Hawk Eyes Smart System. The Smart is an acronym
synchronized multi angle replay technology five times fast. It's no joke.
(10:34):
So they use the Hawkeyes Smart system to isolate the
best possible angles for a broadcast. The officials at the
game day Central location they communicate with the stadium replay
booth as well, and then after talking with other officials
on the field and the coaches, the head referee is
given a and we've seen a lot of these on
the sideline the Microsoft surface to review the play. At
(10:56):
that point, he communicates with senior designated members at the
game day Central location that Art McNally spot who makes
the final decision on review. So it's really multilayered approach, Emrod,
that you've made reference to. It can feel like forever
for a lot of fans, but the process is actually
really streamline. What I find fascinating and this we don't
(11:16):
talk nearly enough about this. I see this in every
single sport, em Rod. You're on the football field, reviews happening,
Officials are you know, gathered, there's players kind of huddled
around these dudes and at little little chirping back and forth.
What's actually being said in those moments, Like what's that vibe, Blake? Well,
first of all, it's one of those vibes where you're like,
do there's First of all, there's no way you threw
(11:37):
that flag on me, No way you threw that flag
on me, man. And then you're the funny part from
me because I've done this before. You're trying to get
the referee or the official to look at the big
screen with you so you can talk him through the
play and all that. I mean, he can't come to
a conclusion just looking at the big screen in the stadium.
But that's what all the fans are looking at. That's
(11:58):
what we're looking at, and we're basically saying, look, dude,
you got it wrong. You got it wrong. You know
what I'm saying. So we always have some quick, you know,
some fun banner back and forth with the referees, and
people don't realize, like coaches, especially the head coaches, they
could get you ready for the officials. Like I know
and every team I've been a part of every single week,
the head coach in the big team meeting room, he
(12:19):
you know, brings up the projector all of the referees
for that week would be up. They have their statistics
on the calls that they make, the calls that they
like to make. You know what calls do do they
make the most on the road. I mean all these
different types of statistics about the officials, and so when
players going to a game, you know exactly who you're
dealing with. I remember playing with your sherman for a
(12:40):
few years out there in Seattle, and there were always
times where on the sideline Pete would have to remind him,
look such and such is the back judge. Understand that
he's watching you. There's no need in yelling at the
white head. There's no need in yelling at another official.
This is the guy watching you, and he calls a
lot of passive affairs, and so maybe you don't get
his hands e today and things like that. It's just
(13:01):
great information to have, and it gives you an advantage
on game that I'm actually mad because we did an
episode you and I this season on head coaches and
what they do. You never brought that up in that episode.
Come on, manmo in the Champion here. I know, well,
you know what that's not my fault, Yams, that's not
my fault. That's your fault. I know you want to
say that's my fault, but that's your far it's your job,
(13:22):
like psychologically, get into my right and put all of
those stories out. Man, he finally did it on this episode.
No we we I was that's a good way to
spend it. I was saving something for a little later
date in time. You know what's fascinating about what you
just described. In other sports, I know they do this,
and I think the same could be said for football.
Don't you use that replay time as almost like an
extra time out? Oh? Yes, are you kidding? Made coaches
(13:46):
are coaching up like crazy. Half the time, you already
know what the result of the call is gonna be,
and you're coaching up like if it was an interception,
and you know, everybody's like, all, that wasn't an interception.
That wasn't an interception. Defense coordinated to see it. They
called out, hey man, look that was a pick. Man,
y'all gonna get on off the field now, the offense
coach and start coaching their guys up. I mean, yeah,
(14:08):
it's a pseudo time, but I remember camp Chancellor telling
me we were playing in the NFC Championship game. We
were playing in San Francisco for the Nintors, who was
the team that I was with before the Seattle Seahawks
in that big NFC championship game before the Super Bowl
a year we won the Super Bowl. And Cam hit
Vernon Davis so hard, Bro, Like I think I'm asked,
told the story on this podcast before. But he hit
(14:29):
Vernon so hard it was legal. It was with his shoulder.
In everything I think you can if you look back
to you're gonna see that hit. That was all over
the highlights he knocked. He hit Vernon so hard, vernon
pants got twisted and ripped. I ain't never seen nothing
like that. He hit it with his shoulder and his
pants got ripped. To think about that, and then the
(14:49):
referee waited like five seconds and then through the flag
and Cam was like, man, Man, were you talking about
what you're talking about? And um, I said Cham. When
Cam got back to the sideline, I said, Cam, what
the hell happened? Man? What just what did he say
to you? He said, Bro? I said, why did you
throw the flag in the referee? I never forget Camp
telling me he said. The referee said, Bro, that looked
(15:11):
way too violent. I said what Camp said? Yeah, man,
he said it looked too violent. This is football, right,
And we had a moment on the sideline. It was
pretty cool. But it just goes to it, man, referees
are human too. Things look very violent. You just said, Oh,
something had to have happened. That's why we need this guy, judge.
That's why we like that command center to help our
(15:32):
guys out on the football field. Yeah. I know, I'm
with you there, just that extra set of eyes. One
other note on the dialogue that's happening. Do certain guys
how do I put this, have a reputation and maybe
those experiences with officials have them thinking differently, like sure, Leash,
(15:53):
do you know what I mean? Uh? Yeah, I know
exactly what you mean. Um, what's my guy? Man? He
used to play for the Arizona car knows what the
Florida State. I hated playing a dot Knell Docket that's
his name deep as a tackle. Oh, I hated playing
that dude. I hated playing that dude. Every time I
(16:16):
encountered him, I felt like it was a dirty play
every time I went up against him. I'm looking at
the rough flight. And again, I played fullback and running
back sometimes, so my encounters were him were minimal. But
I hated playing that dude, and I would always go
to the ref every single place I do. He's doing
something every single play. It's one of those guys that
(16:37):
you hate playing against what you love when he's on
your team. That's one of those guys that I would
always go to the referee. And but like, man, keep
your eyes on that dude. Love shout off to Donell Doc.
I don't know what he's doing in life now, but
he was kind of like my neighbor in Arizona want
to live there, shouting He's probably like I appreciate that.
I like that people were thinking about me in those terms.
All Right, we're gonna continue this conversation because I do
(16:58):
think it's important to consider what's happening in New York
when a lot of these plays are getting reviewed and
you men shin m rob your experiences listening to some
of these conversations with that is actually, like, there's so
many things that these officials are responsible for, confirming scores, turnovers,
initiating reviews under two minutes during both halves and obviously
(17:19):
over time. In addition, they're analyzing game decisions. Think about this.
Before every single play, they're verifying the clock status at
the beginning and the end of every play, confirming the
correct number of players on the field at the snap.
Every time I see too many men on the field,
I'm always like, how did you figure that out? Like,
I'm sitting there watching going, dude like you, I'm not
(17:40):
great with numbers, but I'm sitting there. I'd be like
one to you, like on the finger, old school counting.
You're not going, you wouldn't count. Mike. What happens is
when you played this game, will see this game feeling enough?
You just feel it. You like, dude, there's too many
guys that line right there, there's just too many secondary players.
You just feel it. Man, Yeah, best defense you went
(18:00):
up against. I'm guaranteeing like there was eleven dudes on
the field and it felt like there was fifteen. And
you just kept looking around like it feels they don't
feel like there's any windows for me. There's not enough holes.
The whole thing. I get it all right. When we
come back, we're gonna take you through some of the
numbers behind instant replay, which teams are doing it the
most successfully, and actually how often calls are being overturned.
That's coming up next on the NFL Explain podcast. All right,
(18:30):
welcome back to the NFL Explained podcasts. Mike Yam and
Rob with you. And I think I went this whole
week and I did not get someone siding into my
d M s with a question, which is weird. Yeah,
like we're slacking here because I'm as e Proba will
tell you, I get legit excited when we get questions
for our mail bag episode. So once again, if you're
checking this out on our YouTube, which by the way,
(18:51):
I just found out before we started rolling that our
shows are now available visually as well as you can
obviously just listen to the audio. I'm much better looking
on in podcast form than YouTube form. But um, it's
you know, the the imagination, you know, the whole mind. No,
you need to go to YouTube and check it out
because anytime yeams get embarrassed or whatever, you can see
(19:12):
the sweat happening on his hairline. So also the same
thing happens to me too, so you know it takes
one to know where. Yeah, no, no, the sweat I
always and I do. You know, I beat up pretty easily.
But you're right that that does happen, you know, Just
because now I know we're on YouTube, I'm gonna ask
our makeup people if they can come and do touch
ups and to make sure that whatever thing's okay. You
(19:35):
know what I'm saying. Um, But in all sincerity, we
do actually appreciate the questions that we have been getting.
I swear to you if you do DM me or
m Rob really just me. I promise I screenshot everything,
I send it to our crew. I put it on
a text thread. There's emojis firing all over the place.
I get hyped up and Rob gets hyped up, and
I promise we will get to some of those shows.
(19:55):
By the way, we made a whole episode, not even
just for the mail bag episode. We made a whole
episode based off of one of those questions. So we'd
love to hear from you. You can find us on
social media at my underscore or yam at real mic
Rob on Twitter. All right, let's get back to the
instant replay stuff. How often it's successful? Because I think
that's the question that everyone is thinking about. So between
nineteen eighty six, it was just a kid. In nine,
(20:19):
during the first iteration of instant replay, there were an
average of two point two plays reviewed per game, but
reversals only happened twelve point six percent at the time.
During those days, coaches weren't actually allowed to challenge that change.
Under the current iteration of instant replay, so since nineteen
ninety nine, there's been an average of one point three
plays per game challenge and thirty nine percent of the
(20:42):
plays have been reversed, So that is a big jump
in terms of those reversals. In nine nine nine, a
total of one ninety five plays were reviewed, fifty seven
reverse at a rate of twenty nine percent. But in
one check this out, two hundred and seventy nine plays
were reviewed, a hundred and fifty eight were reversed. That's
a seven percent rate of change, highest ever highest THATFFROM. Yeah,
(21:07):
most review plays past completion, My lord, we've all watched
enough football games to know that they checked those things
out past incompletion. You can check that box as well
and run or breaking the plant like that. Totally makes
sense to me on those scenarios. Going back to what
we were talking about though, at the top of some
of the technology. Is there something emrod that you would
(21:27):
point to as to why we're seeing the reversal change
so significantly, I would point to just the technology from
the television that from the technic quality of the images. Yeah,
the quality of the images. I mean you could right
now they can zoom into that sideline shot when a
guy's running on the sideline and you can see whether
(21:48):
it's a blade or two of grass in between his
cleat in the white line in We just weren't able
to see that, right in nineteen ninet. We just weren't
able to see those types of things. And I think
as the quality of the picture continues to get ramped up,
I think you'll see even more calls get overturned because
(22:09):
the game moves so fast, right, and so for an
referee or to have an opportunity or a fan for
that matter, to have an opportunity to see this game
slowed down frame by frame, that's truly when you can
get to the essence of you know, what's causing an issue,
or what a penalty is, or things like that. I
do think it's interesting that we still don't know where
(22:30):
it catches. I played football all my damn life Mike,
and I still don't know where to catch out. I
still don't I know from the letter of the law
what it catches, but from watching it. To me is
hard because at the end of the day, I can
go out to any park in America, in any city
and see kids making some crazy catches that may look
like an incomplete past, but our truly catches because it
(22:53):
catches a feet, it has a feel to it. So
I don't know, man, I don't know. Just to replace
some sometimes it's made it harder on me to determine
what the hell is going on out there. You and
I both know that someone's gonna DM you and go
what is it catch? For the mont episode? That's what
they're gonna say, all right, Welcome back to the NFL
(23:15):
Explained podcasts. Mike, yam m ROB with you. I'm with
you on those camera angles and the quality. And here's
the best thing that I can say about it. We
all watched these documentaries on sports m ROB from decades ago,
and we watched them back, whether it's you know, the
old school NFL film stuff, stuff at the NBA, Major
League Baseball, like think about I was watching something the
(23:37):
other day and said, oh, my god, Like I didn't
know how bad it was for us to watch sports
because now we just take for granted, you know, got
h D, the oh lad TV, the whole thing, right,
Like I don't even know if I'm using the right terminology,
but you know what I'm saying, Like we got all
this like great technology, and when I flash back and go,
how did we even know who the hell was on
the field, Like everything seems so blurry, like quality was
(23:59):
so bad. So to me it makes so much more sense,
like some of these video angles and the quality of
the picture. I'm like, oh my god, I'm watching Thursday
I Football. I'm private. I'm thinking myself, man, like think
about this, like just crazy, man, it is. WiFi is
good exactly. I even um I said earlier. I did
some of the USFL football games this past spring. They
(24:21):
even have a drone that has even more unique angles
because the drone is able to kind of get in there,
you know, on player level. So again, I just think
as technology grows, will continue to again try to get
things right. That's the ultimate goal in our sport, getting
things right. And as technology goes, I think we'll continue
down that path. Do you think the game's over officiated.
(24:42):
Uh yeah, times I do. To me, especially like with
this rough and the pastor thing. You know, we can
have that discussion on subjective calls and you know, rough
and a pastor wood is roughing, you know, to each
individual and things like that. To me, it is a
subjective thing. But I know, quarterbacks are quarterbacks and with
dry fans, you know, and they're the post the boys
(25:06):
of the league and things like that. But to me,
they're football players, and these calls are literally determining games.
And we talk about the parody in the National Football
League and how each week we don't know who's gonna win,
and each year there could be a new Super Bowl champion,
and we love it. We love it. I love that
fact about our league. But if that is the case,
(25:26):
if that truly is the case, then that means officiating.
The calls have to be right. And at the end
of the day, when you're you put somebody at the
beginning of the season say we want to protect quarterbacks
and rough and the passion is going to be, you know,
a call of emphasis, and these calls are determining games. Again, Mike,
I was a role player of my entire career too
(25:47):
many losses. I'm one of the first ones to go
at the end of the day, I don't necessarily believe
in that. So yeah, this game can be over efficiated.
You know. I'm with you. And and get it back
on the instant replay bandwagon for a second, because I
think one of the other facets of this conversation is
how long do these replays actually take? And I think
the number will probably surprise people. And let me just
(26:08):
say this, like, I don't think people understand. You know,
what's it like to be in twenty seconds of silence?
Like it just and it feels like a long time.
So when you're watching to make sure you're dude, and
that touchdown two feet in in the end, zon't like
that feels excruciating. But in reality, the numbers aren't as
crazy as you think because at its lowest point in
(26:31):
the average replay was taking one minute and forty four
seconds last season. The average to go up a minute,
right last average last season two minutes and twenty three seconds.
So the fan who's waiting still like to twenty three
man like it. It's not as crazy as you think.
To get it right, the teams that have been most
successful since ninety nine at overturning calls, Dallas Cowboys forty
(26:52):
point one percent at a time, the Eagles at forty
six point six percent of the time. So you're starting
to say to yourself, like, why is that why those
two teams, Well, here we go. Those two squads are
number one and number three when it comes to playing
primetime games. Since so you're saying, all right, well, why
is that important? Here's what I can tell you, and
I've experienced this. It's important because primetime games have way
(27:17):
more cameras than the games that you're seeing on Sunday afternoon,
sometimes as many as four times the amount. And I
know that sounds crazy, m Rob. You've been in this
business in a long time, just like I have. Like
if you go to a prime time game and you
see the production trucks that are out there, and you
know the amount of cameras has a lot of tools
in the tools shifts were for these crews. So more cameras,
(27:39):
more eyes, better angles, more opportunity to reverse calls. Those
camera angles specifically, that is an opportunity for plays to
get overturned and really to get the perfect call as
much as you want. So I want to mention a
few of the famous instances of instant replay. Music City
Miracle replay able to confirm the wild lateral that lad
the Titans to beat the Bills in that was actually
(28:02):
the first year that we've played came back the des
Bryant or non catch, depending if you're Pakistan. It's kind
of like that film Mary you were talking about a
little bit before, and obviously went as Bryant scored that
go ahead touchdown and Rob, I know you mentioned film Mary.
Anything else that comes to mind with some of these
three plays and some of those moments for you. I mean,
obviously the Megatron one, I think he was in Chicago.
(28:24):
I think when he was getting up off the ground,
it was obvious catch to me. But it just seems
like some of the some of the makers of our
game had never seen a human being do anything that great.
But I mean, to me, you have to go to
that Ram Saints two thousand and eighteen NFC Championship game.
Right to me, that was the most egregious no call
that should have been passed, an ofference that didn't get called,
(28:46):
there was no replay for that was the most egregious
one of them all. If our listeners remember Robie Coleman
Nickel Roby Coleman, the defensive back for the Rams, ended
up hitting the Saints Tommy Lee Lewis, and I mean
should have been called. It was passing affairs. It was
Agreedi just looked like the referee was about to throw
the flag and then he didn't. Then we started questioning
(29:07):
how the officials actually formed their team for playoffs. It
was a whole big mess. You can go back to
some of the stories back then. But again to me,
the past and inference call again, another subjective call being
in question, and again to me, a sky judge would
have helped that. Somebody that you said, wor wold World
World War WOA. Come on, this is about the game,
the integrity of our game. We cannot let this play
(29:29):
move on without this play being called. So yeah, I
think that thousand eighteen NFC Championship game was probably the
one that comes to mind the most. And my just
thirteen of eighty one passing inference challenges were successful in
twenty nineteen. So it was scrapped in and they're trying
to figure out a process to make subjective calls better
(29:50):
because again at the end of the day, there's no
there's no line of demarcation on some of these subjective
calls where referee could just say, yeah, they met all
of these. So this is why we made the call.
That comes down to the opinion of the referee. So
it's that in mind, do you You and I were
talking off fair before we started recording, and I had
(30:10):
said to you, hey, like, do you think we get
to a point where every play gets reviewed? And I
think you and I are probably on the same page
that the answer is yes. After hearing the number that
you just threw out there, I'm almost wondering, like, hey, man,
like that might be a little further out than I
had thought. Like I thought maybe the end of the decade.
Maybe it's longer. I don't know. Yeah, well, I look
at it like this, like and I think, um, I
(30:32):
was at some owners meeting some years ago and Bill
Belichick was talking about this, and this is not something
I'm breaking or anything. We all know what's going on.
He just said, yes, keep the number of challenges at
a limited number, two or three, whatever we decide, but
make any play challengeable. And what you're challenging has to
have something to do with the success of the play,
(30:53):
and to me, that would limit the length of some
of these challenges, but it would also give coaches a
tool in their tool box where they feel that they've
been sliding on a particular call because of the parody,
because of how close these teams are, they can use
their tools, their toolbox to potentially get the right call.
I think that's something we should look at. So I
told you this story, and I don't know how much
(31:14):
I told you before. Sometimes I just say I'll save
it for air. You say the same thing. I used
to work on a project in virtual reality around the NFL.
I did that for a couple of seasons and it
wasn't ready for prime time yet. When I think about
the image quality that we get just watching normal TV,
but m ROB, I actually think in a lot of
ways that's the future of instant replay, because like when
(31:34):
you get the headset on or even a R which
is augmented reality, like you put those headsets on, man,
Like if I turned to my right, I see exactly
what everyone sees as if I was actually at the game.
And I think if the quality of the cameras get better,
especially that drone one or the sky cam that's coming
through like em rob. You literally can get every single
angle of every single play, like I would imagine that
(31:56):
has got to be where it goes, probably in the
next I don't know, five ten years. Oh, that would
be interesting right there. Games players, I don't know if
I'm with players would like that. I mean, just just
getting everything everything replay, everything is all camera again, the
goal is to get it right. If the goal is
to get it right, which it is, I would vote
(32:17):
for that. I would be in favor of that. Do
the players ever have conversations about what they want or
don't want? Um like informal do Most guys don't. They
don't like replay like I would imagine skill, but like
the wide receivers want. Big guys don't care. Big guys
don't care. I mean, and I was a runner, so
a lot of the runners that I've talked to over
the years, we're always fighting for extra yards and they
(32:40):
hate sometimes the spots of the you know where the
spots are and where officials car runners down. Again, in
the USFL, they put a computer chip in the ball
so you never had to guess where the ball went
out of bound. You never had to guess exactly, Hawf
offers down was I think more technology like that, it's coming.
That's awesome, you know, I think about that like that
(33:00):
solves a lot of issues. Put up that virtual wall
around the field, and soon as that ball goes over,
like you know, it's out. At that point, technology rules
the world. That's why the Selfie Museum is thriving. Yes,
that's exactly the reason why. I know I made reference
to it a little bit earlier. And that's the idea
of getting into our d m s. If you got
(33:20):
a question don't know who to ask, we got you
covered at Real Bike Rob at Mike Underscore. Yeah, if
you're new to the podcast, tell a friend, tell a friend,
hop a board, hop a board, follow us wherever you
get your podcasts and m Rob. I've sprinkled this in
throughout the course of the show. I'm actually legit excited
about this. We are we're now, our faces are out there.
It's you can find us on the NFL YouTube channel.
(33:43):
I had heard rumblings that this might happen, m Rob.
The other rumbling that I heard is me and you
we're getting our own show that's separate from NFL explained. Yeah,
it's gonna be a huge, huge thing. Details for real, man,
I'm getting pumped up. Run to California right now. Yeah. Well,
you know, not to make you disappointed, but you know
(34:04):
how they say, like speak things in to existence. That's
what I was doing. So that's what it's not. A
vision board at home. Don't actually have always legitimately appreciate
you guys checking us out. It's instant replaying, exploited
NFL Explained is a production of the NFL in partnership
with I Heart Radio. Art is a brand new edition
of the NFL Explained podcast. Mike Yam and it's my guy,
m Rob. I miss you, man. We've had a good
flow going. You're usually in the studio with me and
then all of a sudden, you're at home. Now we're
(00:27):
going virtual on this. Yeah, we're going virtual on this one, Yams.
But it's all good, man. I had to do some
stuff with the kids, throw the football around, take some
field trips. I'll be back in the studio here pretty soon.
So I know. People were actually wondering if the field
trip included a ride to the Selfie Museum. Yeah or nay, no,
not the Selfie Museum, not quite yet. But I may
(00:48):
go there before I get on the flight to come
out there, which is good and it kind of leads
me down a path of what this episode is. When
I dropped the selfie museum right because we all have
our phones were attached to technology. I know everyone right
now who's listening to this podcast, like, think about this,
m Rob. You and I are old enough and I
like being able to say this. It was like it's
the old school of Vetera. You and I are holding
a back at my day we had a walkman and
(01:09):
the whole thing. But think about us, like people are
consuming our show on podcasts or even now on YouTube
and they get to go and see us with makeup
on and the whole thing. Yes, let's bring it. But
do you do you get that vibe that like we're
almost too attached now to technology and maybe the game
might be a little too attached to the tech. Well
a quick answer, yes, I believe society is attached to
(01:32):
technology a little too much. Just go walk through what
we used to call malls, middles, things that shopping centers
and stuff stuff. Absolutely, you go to a mall and
now everybody's looking at their phone, everybody's looking down. You
go to a school where a bunch of kids are
everybody's looking down. So I would say, yes, we are
(01:53):
a lot more attached to a technology today than we've
ever been in human times. Okay, so I'm gonna throw
this year way. Some people are listening to this podcast, like,
what's this technology in this NFL deal? All right, now
it's about to make sense for you today we are
all all about technology in the NFL. On a specific subject,
something that we're all used to seeing. We see it
every single Sunday, every Thursday, every Monday. And you know
(02:14):
what I'm talking about. It's all about instant replay, camera
angles all over people and fans talking about officials not
knowing what they're doing. Look at the end of the day,
and I should preface everything that I'm about to say
with legitimately, m rob, are there calls that are missed? Yes?
Are the officials do? They do an absolutely incredible job
in real time? There is no doubt in my mind
(02:36):
there's some of the best officials that we have in
professional sport across the board. We get to be armchair
quarterback in the moment because we're at home watching TV
seeing everything in slow mode, frame by frame. Can you
imagine having to make some of these decisions like this, No,
not having it. It's tough, man, it really is. Yes,
(02:58):
it is tough. I don't know how they do it,
but at the end of the day, they're paid to
do it, So I'm not gonna let the referees off
through too much. But bro, it was two times in
my career in the National Football League. I have some
times in college I e Penn State, Michigan, one second
left on the clock. All Mike rob fans, you know
what I'm talking about there, But I think it was
two thousand nine. Brett Farve, he was playing for the
(03:19):
Minnesota Vikings. Into the game last play, like a fifty
or pass or something like that. Brett Farve kind of
scrambled around and threw a bullet to the back of
the end zone to a dude that wasn't even on
the team that week. Greg Lewis, Okay, this dude was
like just chilling on the couch and where they brought
him in and then he ended up catching the game
(03:39):
when it passed the back of the end zone. And
then one of the ones that everybody knows in twelve
to fail. I'm not gonna say it's a fail Mary.
It was a hell Mary that worked go to take
card it over, like three or four Green Bay Packers
players made It was awesome. It was so dope. We
had the replacement rests that that particular game, and I
remember seeing one. I remember being on the sideline because
(04:00):
it was base personnel, so base personnel, I would fullback
wouldn't have been in the game. In the end of
the game, situations. But I remember one ref putting his
hands up as a touchdown and the other ref just
waving his hands like this, and I just said, you
know what, sprint to the end zone, get Golden up,
get him up out of here before they change their mind.
(04:21):
We won the game. It's pretty cool. It was awesome.
I actually have heard a lot of stories one of
your teammates, Evan Moore, and I know I brought him
up a couple of times. It's a good bunny of
mine was on your one of your teammates. At that point.
He actually gave me some intel that we used last
season on this podcast. It was all about Hail Mary's.
So I do encourage some of our fans maybe to
check out that episode going through the inner workings. Remind
(04:42):
me when you're back in the studio, I got a
question to ask you about that one. But the point is,
at least on this episode, when it comes down to
instant replay, we're gonna go through the historical timeline. We're
gonna give you some stats will tell you what we
think is about to come. But I do think it's
important to start at the beginning here ninety six. The
origin of this NFL director of Officiating, that's Art McNally,
first experimented with instant replay by bringing a video camera
(05:05):
to stop watch to a Dallas Buffalo game on Monday
Night football, trying to figure out how long a review
would actually delay the game, because I know this is
a big critique for people, right like you got, oh,
it's gonna extend the game and the whole deal, Like
at the end of the day, we're going to the
timeline and how it might not be as big a
factor as you think. He saw a miss call though
on to play with O. J. Simpson that would have
(05:25):
been corrected with a replay review, and he thought it
could benefit the NFL. Nineteen seventy eight, two years later,
the NFL actually tested instant replay during seven preseason games
broadcasted on National TV, beginning with the Philadelphia Miami Hall
of Fame game, but overall the performance of the camera
system and the cost to install a little prohibitive, so
(05:46):
they actually tabled everything for a few more years. Taking
the nineteen technology actually improved so much that the owner's
voted four and one to add instant replay in a
limited capacity for the eighties. Six season replay officials sat
in a booth with get this to VCRs if you
don't know what Yes, VCRs dude, what happened to us? Man?
(06:07):
We used to be young, right, Like I'm actually saying,
like there, I know that there's people like what's the VCR. Yes,
there are. I remember I used to have to record
young and Restless in the general hospital from my grandmother
when I was for your grandmother. Okay, yeah, sure, sure
if you say so. Um to think about that, like
when you had to like make a mixtape, remember that
(06:29):
you had to like hit plane record at the same
time playing the like it's the whole thing. But the
replay officials they had two VCRs there so they could
record and watch back plays. In that first season, there
were one point six reviews per game, with only ten
percent of the plays overturned. In just the third play
from scrimmage in six we actually got this right touchdown.
(06:53):
So the use of the instant replay on the third
play from scrimmage and the new year already the new
rule of the National Football leg you so by instant
replay official has given the Browns that touchdown on an
otherwise very confusing play. VCRs man, VCRs dude, it's like
tracks for us, you know what I mean? Like? Okay,
(07:16):
So despite that m ROB in n replay was actually
shelved by the league over concerns that it wasn't efficient
enough and that nine of the ninety overturned calls were
in fact incorrect. We then have to fast forward our VCR.
What the new system actually addressed, issues like delays penalizing
coaches with the charge time out on an incorrect challenge.
(07:39):
It clearly worked well because in two thousands, seven teams
voted thirty to two to keep instant replay permanently. Now,
that same year, team spent three hundred k a piece
to install high definition replay systems that were five times sharper.
The league designated a hub in New York where senior
officiating members could be in contact with officials on game day,
(08:01):
and then three years later, all game day decisions would
be made by dead CATD officials at Art McNally game
Day Central in New York and ROB. So there's an
evolution that's here that we're seeing through instant replay, how
it's installed. In your mind, is there something that could
be improved upon? When you watch these games and you
see what these three play officials are doing. I think
(08:22):
just having a sky judge, just having somebody that can
see egregious calls, can see things obviously missed obviously to
have something to do with the success of the play.
Just a sky just to be up there, just to
kind of have the referees back, to have the officials
on the fields back right if they miss something that
has something to do with the play, that sky just
can buzz in and be able to interrupt and be
(08:43):
able to get it right. Because at the end of
the day, we all want it right. I don't care
if you're on the side of the car where it
benefits you or you're on the side of the car
where it doesn't benefit you. Everybody wants to get the
call right. In this past spring, I was with the USFL.
I did some some of those Spring games, and it
was just interesting to hear the back and forth between
the referees right that their microphones were always open. As
(09:05):
a broadcaster and as a viewer, you're able to hear
kind of their thought processes and what they're going through right,
and even the reviewable plays Like it was just cool
to just hear that. First of all, their job isn't easy,
not at all, like the way that the speed at
which this game moves. Obviously, we're all fans of the
game too, so to stop yourself from watching the game
(09:26):
from an entertainment standpoint and watching the game from a
standpoint of actually officiating it is a very difficult thing
to do. Just talking to some of the rest of
that I talked to down they're being able to officiate
that game. But I think having a sky judge and
maybe having just audio opens that we are actively listening
to how our referees come to their conclusions. Yeah, I know.
I think that transparency is huge and it could be
(09:46):
really beneficial for fans who are very quick to point
to mistakes and feel like, no, no, how do you
mess that thing up? Like it's not that easy, And
dudes aren't just sitting back, you know, watching the games
like we do on our couch right like it is.
It is a very different vibe for a lot of
these games that I don't think people really think about
too much. But it is really important to explain at
(10:07):
least the exact process once replay and rob is actually
triggered in a game. So I mentioned the Art McNally
game Day Central location. They use brand new technology. It's
a new system and it was installed last year. It's
called Hawk Eyes Smart System. The Smart is an acronym
synchronized multi angle replay technology five times fast. It's no joke.
(10:34):
So they use the Hawkeyes Smart system to isolate the
best possible angles for a broadcast. The officials at the
game day Central location they communicate with the stadium replay
booth as well, and then after talking with other officials
on the field and the coaches, the head referee is
given a and we've seen a lot of these on
the sideline the Microsoft surface to review the play. At
(10:56):
that point, he communicates with senior designated members at the
game day Central location that Art McNally spot who makes
the final decision on review. So it's really multilayered approach, Emrod,
that you've made reference to. It can feel like forever
for a lot of fans, but the process is actually
really streamline. What I find fascinating and this we don't
(11:16):
talk nearly enough about this. I see this in every
single sport, em Rod. You're on the football field, reviews happening,
Officials are you know, gathered, there's players kind of huddled
around these dudes and at little little chirping back and forth.
What's actually being said in those moments, Like what's that vibe, Blake? Well,
first of all, it's one of those vibes where you're like,
do there's First of all, there's no way you threw
(11:37):
that flag on me, No way you threw that flag
on me, man. And then you're the funny part from
me because I've done this before. You're trying to get
the referee or the official to look at the big
screen with you so you can talk him through the
play and all that. I mean, he can't come to
a conclusion just looking at the big screen in the stadium.
But that's what all the fans are looking at. That's
(11:58):
what we're looking at, and we're basically saying, look, dude,
you got it wrong. You got it wrong. You know
what I'm saying. So we always have some quick, you know,
some fun banner back and forth with the referees, and
people don't realize, like coaches, especially the head coaches, they
could get you ready for the officials. Like I know
and every team I've been a part of every single week,
the head coach in the big team meeting room, he
(12:19):
you know, brings up the projector all of the referees
for that week would be up. They have their statistics
on the calls that they make, the calls that they
like to make. You know what calls do do they
make the most on the road. I mean all these
different types of statistics about the officials, and so when
players going to a game, you know exactly who you're
dealing with. I remember playing with your sherman for a
(12:40):
few years out there in Seattle, and there were always
times where on the sideline Pete would have to remind him,
look such and such is the back judge. Understand that
he's watching you. There's no need in yelling at the
white head. There's no need in yelling at another official.
This is the guy watching you, and he calls a
lot of passive affairs, and so maybe you don't get
his hands e today and things like that. It's just
(13:01):
great information to have, and it gives you an advantage
on game that I'm actually mad because we did an
episode you and I this season on head coaches and
what they do. You never brought that up in that episode.
Come on, manmo in the Champion here. I know, well,
you know what that's not my fault, Yams, that's not
my fault. That's your fault. I know you want to
say that's my fault, but that's your far it's your job,
(13:22):
like psychologically, get into my right and put all of
those stories out. Man, he finally did it on this episode.
No we we I was that's a good way to
spend it. I was saving something for a little later
date in time. You know what's fascinating about what you
just described. In other sports, I know they do this,
and I think the same could be said for football.
Don't you use that replay time as almost like an
extra time out? Oh? Yes, are you kidding? Made coaches
(13:46):
are coaching up like crazy. Half the time, you already
know what the result of the call is gonna be,
and you're coaching up like if it was an interception,
and you know, everybody's like, all, that wasn't an interception.
That wasn't an interception. Defense coordinated to see it. They
called out, hey man, look that was a pick. Man,
y'all gonna get on off the field now, the offense
coach and start coaching their guys up. I mean, yeah,
(14:08):
it's a pseudo time, but I remember camp Chancellor telling
me we were playing in the NFC Championship game. We
were playing in San Francisco for the Nintors, who was
the team that I was with before the Seattle Seahawks
in that big NFC championship game before the Super Bowl
a year we won the Super Bowl. And Cam hit
Vernon Davis so hard, Bro, Like I think I'm asked,
told the story on this podcast before. But he hit
(14:29):
Vernon so hard it was legal. It was with his shoulder.
In everything I think you can if you look back
to you're gonna see that hit. That was all over
the highlights he knocked. He hit Vernon so hard, vernon
pants got twisted and ripped. I ain't never seen nothing
like that. He hit it with his shoulder and his
pants got ripped. To think about that, and then the
(14:49):
referee waited like five seconds and then through the flag
and Cam was like, man, Man, were you talking about
what you're talking about? And um, I said Cham. When
Cam got back to the sideline, I said, Cam, what
the hell happened? Man? What just what did he say
to you? He said, Bro? I said, why did you
throw the flag in the referee? I never forget Camp
telling me he said. The referee said, Bro, that looked
(15:11):
way too violent. I said what Camp said? Yeah, man,
he said it looked too violent. This is football, right,
And we had a moment on the sideline. It was
pretty cool. But it just goes to it, man, referees
are human too. Things look very violent. You just said, Oh,
something had to have happened. That's why we need this guy, judge.
That's why we like that command center to help our
(15:32):
guys out on the football field. Yeah. I know, I'm
with you there, just that extra set of eyes. One
other note on the dialogue that's happening. Do certain guys
how do I put this, have a reputation and maybe
those experiences with officials have them thinking differently, like sure, Leash,
(15:53):
do you know what I mean? Uh? Yeah, I know
exactly what you mean. Um, what's my guy? Man? He
used to play for the Arizona car knows what the
Florida State. I hated playing a dot Knell Docket that's
his name deep as a tackle. Oh, I hated playing
that dude. I hated playing that dude. Every time I
(16:16):
encountered him, I felt like it was a dirty play
every time I went up against him. I'm looking at
the rough flight. And again, I played fullback and running
back sometimes, so my encounters were him were minimal. But
I hated playing that dude, and I would always go
to the ref every single place I do. He's doing
something every single play. It's one of those guys that
(16:37):
you hate playing against what you love when he's on
your team. That's one of those guys that I would
always go to the referee. And but like, man, keep
your eyes on that dude. Love shout off to Donell Doc.
I don't know what he's doing in life now, but
he was kind of like my neighbor in Arizona want
to live there, shouting He's probably like I appreciate that.
I like that people were thinking about me in those terms.
All Right, we're gonna continue this conversation because I do
(16:58):
think it's important to consider what's happening in New York
when a lot of these plays are getting reviewed and
you men shin m rob your experiences listening to some
of these conversations with that is actually, like, there's so
many things that these officials are responsible for, confirming scores, turnovers,
initiating reviews under two minutes during both halves and obviously
(17:19):
over time. In addition, they're analyzing game decisions. Think about this.
Before every single play, they're verifying the clock status at
the beginning and the end of every play, confirming the
correct number of players on the field at the snap.
Every time I see too many men on the field,
I'm always like, how did you figure that out? Like,
I'm sitting there watching going, dude like you, I'm not
(17:40):
great with numbers, but I'm sitting there. I'd be like
one to you, like on the finger, old school counting.
You're not going, you wouldn't count. Mike. What happens is
when you played this game, will see this game feeling enough?
You just feel it. You like, dude, there's too many
guys that line right there, there's just too many secondary players.
You just feel it. Man, Yeah, best defense you went
(18:00):
up against. I'm guaranteeing like there was eleven dudes on
the field and it felt like there was fifteen. And
you just kept looking around like it feels they don't
feel like there's any windows for me. There's not enough holes.
The whole thing. I get it all right. When we
come back, we're gonna take you through some of the
numbers behind instant replay, which teams are doing it the
most successfully, and actually how often calls are being overturned.
That's coming up next on the NFL Explain podcast. All right,
(18:30):
welcome back to the NFL Explained podcasts. Mike Yam and
Rob with you. And I think I went this whole
week and I did not get someone siding into my
d M s with a question, which is weird. Yeah,
like we're slacking here because I'm as e Proba will
tell you, I get legit excited when we get questions
for our mail bag episode. So once again, if you're
checking this out on our YouTube, which by the way,
(18:51):
I just found out before we started rolling that our
shows are now available visually as well as you can
obviously just listen to the audio. I'm much better looking
on in podcast form than YouTube form. But um, it's
you know, the the imagination, you know, the whole mind. No,
you need to go to YouTube and check it out
because anytime yeams get embarrassed or whatever, you can see
(19:12):
the sweat happening on his hairline. So also the same
thing happens to me too, so you know it takes
one to know where. Yeah, no, no, the sweat I
always and I do. You know, I beat up pretty easily.
But you're right that that does happen, you know, Just
because now I know we're on YouTube, I'm gonna ask
our makeup people if they can come and do touch
ups and to make sure that whatever thing's okay. You
(19:35):
know what I'm saying. Um, But in all sincerity, we
do actually appreciate the questions that we have been getting.
I swear to you if you do DM me or
m Rob really just me. I promise I screenshot everything,
I send it to our crew. I put it on
a text thread. There's emojis firing all over the place.
I get hyped up and Rob gets hyped up, and
I promise we will get to some of those shows.
(19:55):
By the way, we made a whole episode, not even
just for the mail bag episode. We made a whole
episode based off of one of those questions. So we'd
love to hear from you. You can find us on
social media at my underscore or yam at real mic
Rob on Twitter. All right, let's get back to the
instant replay stuff. How often it's successful? Because I think
that's the question that everyone is thinking about. So between
nineteen eighty six, it was just a kid. In nine,
(20:19):
during the first iteration of instant replay, there were an
average of two point two plays reviewed per game, but
reversals only happened twelve point six percent at the time.
During those days, coaches weren't actually allowed to challenge that change.
Under the current iteration of instant replay, so since nineteen
ninety nine, there's been an average of one point three
plays per game challenge and thirty nine percent of the
(20:42):
plays have been reversed, So that is a big jump
in terms of those reversals. In nine nine nine, a
total of one ninety five plays were reviewed, fifty seven
reverse at a rate of twenty nine percent. But in
one check this out, two hundred and seventy nine plays
were reviewed, a hundred and fifty eight were reversed. That's
a seven percent rate of change, highest ever highest THATFFROM. Yeah,
(21:07):
most review plays past completion, My lord, we've all watched
enough football games to know that they checked those things
out past incompletion. You can check that box as well
and run or breaking the plant like that. Totally makes
sense to me on those scenarios. Going back to what
we were talking about though, at the top of some
of the technology. Is there something emrod that you would
(21:27):
point to as to why we're seeing the reversal change
so significantly, I would point to just the technology from
the television that from the technic quality of the images. Yeah,
the quality of the images. I mean you could right
now they can zoom into that sideline shot when a
guy's running on the sideline and you can see whether
(21:48):
it's a blade or two of grass in between his
cleat in the white line in We just weren't able
to see that, right in nineteen ninet. We just weren't
able to see those types of things. And I think
as the quality of the picture continues to get ramped up,
I think you'll see even more calls get overturned because
(22:09):
the game moves so fast, right, and so for an
referee or to have an opportunity or a fan for
that matter, to have an opportunity to see this game
slowed down frame by frame, that's truly when you can
get to the essence of you know, what's causing an issue,
or what a penalty is, or things like that. I
do think it's interesting that we still don't know where
(22:30):
it catches. I played football all my damn life Mike,
and I still don't know where to catch out. I
still don't I know from the letter of the law
what it catches, but from watching it. To me is
hard because at the end of the day, I can
go out to any park in America, in any city
and see kids making some crazy catches that may look
like an incomplete past, but our truly catches because it
(22:53):
catches a feet, it has a feel to it. So
I don't know, man, I don't know. Just to replace
some sometimes it's made it harder on me to determine
what the hell is going on out there. You and
I both know that someone's gonna DM you and go
what is it catch? For the mont episode? That's what
they're gonna say, all right, Welcome back to the NFL
(23:15):
Explained podcasts. Mike, yam m ROB with you. I'm with
you on those camera angles and the quality. And here's
the best thing that I can say about it. We
all watched these documentaries on sports m ROB from decades ago,
and we watched them back, whether it's you know, the
old school NFL film stuff, stuff at the NBA, Major
League Baseball, like think about I was watching something the
(23:37):
other day and said, oh, my god, Like I didn't
know how bad it was for us to watch sports
because now we just take for granted, you know, got
h D, the oh lad TV, the whole thing, right,
Like I don't even know if I'm using the right terminology,
but you know what I'm saying, Like we got all
this like great technology, and when I flash back and go,
how did we even know who the hell was on
the field, Like everything seems so blurry, like quality was
(23:59):
so bad. So to me it makes so much more sense,
like some of these video angles and the quality of
the picture. I'm like, oh my god, I'm watching Thursday
I Football. I'm private. I'm thinking myself, man, like think
about this, like just crazy, man, it is. WiFi is
good exactly. I even um I said earlier. I did
some of the USFL football games this past spring. They
(24:21):
even have a drone that has even more unique angles
because the drone is able to kind of get in there,
you know, on player level. So again, I just think
as technology grows, will continue to again try to get
things right. That's the ultimate goal in our sport, getting
things right. And as technology goes, I think we'll continue
down that path. Do you think the game's over officiated.
(24:42):
Uh yeah, times I do. To me, especially like with
this rough and the pastor thing. You know, we can
have that discussion on subjective calls and you know, rough
and a pastor wood is roughing, you know, to each
individual and things like that. To me, it is a
subjective thing. But I know, quarterbacks are quarterbacks and with
dry fans, you know, and they're the post the boys
(25:06):
of the league and things like that. But to me,
they're football players, and these calls are literally determining games.
And we talk about the parody in the National Football
League and how each week we don't know who's gonna win,
and each year there could be a new Super Bowl champion,
and we love it. We love it. I love that
fact about our league. But if that is the case,
(25:26):
if that truly is the case, then that means officiating.
The calls have to be right. And at the end
of the day, when you're you put somebody at the
beginning of the season say we want to protect quarterbacks
and rough and the passion is going to be, you know,
a call of emphasis, and these calls are determining games. Again, Mike,
I was a role player of my entire career too
(25:47):
many losses. I'm one of the first ones to go
at the end of the day, I don't necessarily believe
in that. So yeah, this game can be over efficiated.
You know. I'm with you. And and get it back
on the instant replay bandwagon for a second, because I
think one of the other facets of this conversation is
how long do these replays actually take? And I think
the number will probably surprise people. And let me just
(26:08):
say this, like, I don't think people understand. You know,
what's it like to be in twenty seconds of silence?
Like it just and it feels like a long time.
So when you're watching to make sure you're dude, and
that touchdown two feet in in the end, zon't like
that feels excruciating. But in reality, the numbers aren't as
crazy as you think because at its lowest point in
(26:31):
the average replay was taking one minute and forty four
seconds last season. The average to go up a minute,
right last average last season two minutes and twenty three seconds.
So the fan who's waiting still like to twenty three
man like it. It's not as crazy as you think.
To get it right, the teams that have been most
successful since ninety nine at overturning calls, Dallas Cowboys forty
(26:52):
point one percent at a time, the Eagles at forty
six point six percent of the time. So you're starting
to say to yourself, like, why is that why those
two teams, Well, here we go. Those two squads are
number one and number three when it comes to playing
primetime games. Since so you're saying, all right, well, why
is that important? Here's what I can tell you, and
I've experienced this. It's important because primetime games have way
(27:17):
more cameras than the games that you're seeing on Sunday afternoon,
sometimes as many as four times the amount. And I
know that sounds crazy, m Rob. You've been in this
business in a long time, just like I have. Like
if you go to a prime time game and you
see the production trucks that are out there, and you
know the amount of cameras has a lot of tools
in the tools shifts were for these crews. So more cameras,
(27:39):
more eyes, better angles, more opportunity to reverse calls. Those
camera angles specifically, that is an opportunity for plays to
get overturned and really to get the perfect call as
much as you want. So I want to mention a
few of the famous instances of instant replay. Music City
Miracle replay able to confirm the wild lateral that lad
the Titans to beat the Bills in that was actually
(28:02):
the first year that we've played came back the des
Bryant or non catch, depending if you're Pakistan. It's kind
of like that film Mary you were talking about a
little bit before, and obviously went as Bryant scored that
go ahead touchdown and Rob, I know you mentioned film Mary.
Anything else that comes to mind with some of these
three plays and some of those moments for you. I mean,
obviously the Megatron one, I think he was in Chicago.
(28:24):
I think when he was getting up off the ground,
it was obvious catch to me. But it just seems
like some of the some of the makers of our
game had never seen a human being do anything that great.
But I mean, to me, you have to go to
that Ram Saints two thousand and eighteen NFC Championship game.
Right to me, that was the most egregious no call
that should have been passed, an ofference that didn't get called,
(28:46):
there was no replay for that was the most egregious
one of them all. If our listeners remember Robie Coleman
Nickel Roby Coleman, the defensive back for the Rams, ended
up hitting the Saints Tommy Lee Lewis, and I mean
should have been called. It was passing affairs. It was
Agreedi just looked like the referee was about to throw
the flag and then he didn't. Then we started questioning
(29:07):
how the officials actually formed their team for playoffs. It
was a whole big mess. You can go back to
some of the stories back then. But again to me,
the past and inference call again, another subjective call being
in question, and again to me, a sky judge would
have helped that. Somebody that you said, wor wold World
World War WOA. Come on, this is about the game,
the integrity of our game. We cannot let this play
(29:29):
move on without this play being called. So yeah, I
think that thousand eighteen NFC Championship game was probably the
one that comes to mind the most. And my just
thirteen of eighty one passing inference challenges were successful in
twenty nineteen. So it was scrapped in and they're trying
to figure out a process to make subjective calls better
(29:50):
because again at the end of the day, there's no
there's no line of demarcation on some of these subjective
calls where referee could just say, yeah, they met all
of these. So this is why we made the call.
That comes down to the opinion of the referee. So
it's that in mind, do you You and I were
talking off fair before we started recording, and I had
(30:10):
said to you, hey, like, do you think we get
to a point where every play gets reviewed? And I
think you and I are probably on the same page
that the answer is yes. After hearing the number that
you just threw out there, I'm almost wondering, like, hey, man,
like that might be a little further out than I
had thought. Like I thought maybe the end of the decade.
Maybe it's longer. I don't know. Yeah, well, I look
at it like this, like and I think, um, I
(30:32):
was at some owners meeting some years ago and Bill
Belichick was talking about this, and this is not something
I'm breaking or anything. We all know what's going on.
He just said, yes, keep the number of challenges at
a limited number, two or three, whatever we decide, but
make any play challengeable. And what you're challenging has to
have something to do with the success of the play,
(30:53):
and to me, that would limit the length of some
of these challenges, but it would also give coaches a
tool in their tool box where they feel that they've
been sliding on a particular call because of the parody,
because of how close these teams are, they can use
their tools, their toolbox to potentially get the right call.
I think that's something we should look at. So I
told you this story, and I don't know how much
(31:14):
I told you before. Sometimes I just say I'll save
it for air. You say the same thing. I used
to work on a project in virtual reality around the NFL.
I did that for a couple of seasons and it
wasn't ready for prime time yet. When I think about
the image quality that we get just watching normal TV,
but m ROB, I actually think in a lot of
ways that's the future of instant replay, because like when
(31:34):
you get the headset on or even a R which
is augmented reality, like you put those headsets on, man,
Like if I turned to my right, I see exactly
what everyone sees as if I was actually at the game.
And I think if the quality of the cameras get better,
especially that drone one or the sky cam that's coming
through like em rob. You literally can get every single
angle of every single play, like I would imagine that
(31:56):
has got to be where it goes, probably in the
next I don't know, five ten years. Oh, that would
be interesting right there. Games players, I don't know if
I'm with players would like that. I mean, just just
getting everything everything replay, everything is all camera again, the
goal is to get it right. If the goal is
to get it right, which it is, I would vote
(32:17):
for that. I would be in favor of that. Do
the players ever have conversations about what they want or
don't want? Um like informal do Most guys don't. They
don't like replay like I would imagine skill, but like
the wide receivers want. Big guys don't care. Big guys
don't care. I mean, and I was a runner, so
a lot of the runners that I've talked to over
the years, we're always fighting for extra yards and they
(32:40):
hate sometimes the spots of the you know where the
spots are and where officials car runners down. Again, in
the USFL, they put a computer chip in the ball
so you never had to guess where the ball went
out of bound. You never had to guess exactly, Hawf
offers down was I think more technology like that, it's coming.
That's awesome, you know, I think about that like that
(33:00):
solves a lot of issues. Put up that virtual wall
around the field, and soon as that ball goes over,
like you know, it's out. At that point, technology rules
the world. That's why the Selfie Museum is thriving. Yes,
that's exactly the reason why. I know I made reference
to it a little bit earlier. And that's the idea
of getting into our d m s. If you got
(33:20):
a question don't know who to ask, we got you
covered at Real Bike Rob at Mike Underscore. Yeah, if
you're new to the podcast, tell a friend, tell a friend,
hop a board, hop a board, follow us wherever you
get your podcasts and m Rob. I've sprinkled this in
throughout the course of the show. I'm actually legit excited
about this. We are we're now, our faces are out there.
It's you can find us on the NFL YouTube channel.
(33:43):
I had heard rumblings that this might happen, m Rob.
The other rumbling that I heard is me and you
we're getting our own show that's separate from NFL explained. Yeah,
it's gonna be a huge, huge thing. Details for real, man,
I'm getting pumped up. Run to California right now. Yeah. Well,
you know, not to make you disappointed, but you know
(34:04):
how they say, like speak things in to existence. That's
what I was doing. So that's what it's not. A
vision board at home. Don't actually have always legitimately appreciate
you guys checking us out. It's instant replaying, exploited
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