Tight End Dead Zones

Michael F. Florio and LaQuan Jones open the show with the breaking news that Aaron Rodgers has confirmed that 2025 will be his final NFL season. Then, the guys break down the rest of the most fantasy-relevant headlines including the QB competition in Indianapolis and Deebo Samuel’s role in the Commanders' offense. (2:27)

After the break, Florio and LQ break down the biggest ‘What Ifs’ at the tight end position. Could Brock Bowers and Trey McBride have enough upside to warrant a second-round pick? What is the leading reason that Florio hasn’t drafted George Kittle in any of his drafts this year? And how will a new offensive coordinator in Detroit impact Sam LaPorta’s fantasy value? (18:58)

After the break, the guys examine the tight end ‘dead zone’ and which of the most talented players are also the scariest to draft. They share their favorite late-round tight ends and toss out a unique theory on Travis Kelce’s decline. (51:39)

The NFL Fantasy Football Podcast is part of the NFL Podcast Network

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Wow, what's up everybody.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
It's Tuesday, June twenty fourth, twenty twenty five. Welcome to
the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, where we are happy the
Pacers did not win at least I am. I'm back
from my vacation. MG is off this week. I was
traveling the Pacific northwest. MG is going a little bit
more south. I believe he's in San Diego, which LQ,

(00:35):
you could attest to.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
This.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
To me, that is the southern California version of what
all us Northeasterners do when we head to the Jersey Shore.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
Yes, exactly, man. And it's crazy how you guys you're
going north. MG's going south. I'm right here in the
center at home. I mean, look, you went to Vegas.
I like to go to Vegas. Actually, yeah, that's like,
yeah exactly, it's still dead center.

Speaker 4 (00:57):
We're good though.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Vegas.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
You were there because like me and MG were on vacation.
That that was a business ship for you. You went there
to Yeah. I went through the draft. I crushed it.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
My first two picks Jamar Chase pookin Nakua, and I
followed up with your boy James Cook.

Speaker 4 (01:12):
So what the Scott Fishbowl Draft? Was amazing. I was
pick seven.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, it's the funky format man, the scott Fishbowl fifteen.

Speaker 4 (01:21):
Man, you gotta look up the rules.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
It's super all flex, super flex flex. There is no
like designated single roster position. So if you want to
draft a wide receiver every single round, you could do so.
I don't recommend it, but you could.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Who's your quarterback? My quarterback?

Speaker 4 (01:37):
Come on? Uh you know who my quarterback is? You
best believe I walked off with go Nicks?

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Wait, wait, so you didn't take a QB in the
first three rounds and still gonna go Nicks?

Speaker 3 (01:48):
Yes, because there's not enough believers out there and I'm
not going to be screaming to the top of the
mountain about it like you don't want to listen. Okay,
you're gonna miss out again, So it's all good.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
When I heard Chase go seven, all right, it was
the first six picks must.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Have all been quarterbacks or something, and of course, wow,
yeah you still have the boon, NICKX, khudos to you.

Speaker 4 (02:07):
Let's go and J Harvey, We're good.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
Ooh you did.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
I gotta look at your full team, but so far
I'm thinking you did. I saw the video you put
out where you had Chase and Puka, and I was like,
you could have covered up all the names and I
would have told you what team that was.

Speaker 4 (02:23):
Of course, of course, Man had to leave with my guy.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
And speaking of your guys, we have qbs in the news.
Your favorite QB of all time, Aaron Rodgers has announced
this will be his final season.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
But did he? But did he? Because he said, I'm.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Pretty sure this is my last season and if anyone
leaves room for loopholes, it is Aaron Rodgers. But knowing
that this might be his last year, to me, that
doesn't change anything. But for you, does it impact how
you view the Steelers?

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Absolutely not. Man, he's not cool enough to do what
Tom Brady did. Like, let's be honest, I do not
want to hear by Aaron Rodgers after this season ever again,
unless we're talking about him in like a legacy light
of it.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
But yeah, he's just.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
Been completely trolling us these last couple of years, and
it's been wild to even like have this as breaking news,
Like we already knew this was your last ride because
the community and the football folks were gonna have force
you to go into retirement because I have no idea
what the product that he's going to put out there
this year. But let's just chalk it up, brother, and
you could have signed off now, you know, like he

(03:35):
didn't have to come back.

Speaker 4 (03:36):
So we'll see, we'll see what this does.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, And I think from a real life standpoint, you
could say, like, oh, he won. Steelers games are all
going to be like nationally televised now and everything is
going to be like, oh, the last time you get
to see Okay, cool.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
He's earned the right. I'll give him that.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Like I'm not the biggest fan of him, but he's
earned the right to go out on his own terms.
And if this is how he wants to go out,
kudos to him. But from a performance standpoint and a
fantasy standpoint, this doesn't change anything to me because he's
still forty two years old. He is still coming off.
I know last year he played the full year and everything,
but like he didn't look the same after that Achilles injury.

(04:17):
He hasn't thrown thirty touchdowns in either of his last
two seasons. He hasn't topped thirty nine hundred yards in
any of his last two full seasons. He doesn't run
anymore to me for fantasy, he is a QB two
that the absolute ceiling is. Maybe he volumes his way

(04:38):
to like a QB twelve finish and total points, but
like in points per game, he is going to be
a QB two and even last year, right like when
Rogers had his good games and his good matchups, he
was giving us like eighteen fantasy points, seventeen fantasy like,
I think the days are gone where look, Aaron Rodgers
used to average twenty five per game, but I think

(05:00):
the days are gone where you could even expect to
get like a big performance out of him here or there,
because it's just been so long since we've seen that
that I think we need to let the pass go.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
You know, you'll never feel good having him in your
starting lineups.

Speaker 4 (05:15):
I'll tell you that you will be worried and.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
Hope that you have a backup quarterback to replace him
if you made that decision, because at the end of
the day, how you said it, those spike weeks, those.

Speaker 4 (05:24):
Are like seventeen eighteen points.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
I can get that off the waiver wire if I
wanted to play that position.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
You could.

Speaker 3 (05:30):
You can get a guy like Brock Pirdy that can
throw up twenty that Jared Goff twenty five. Like these
are other quarterbacks that are still out here, that are
still outside putting up some good points. And you trying
to get Aaron Rodgers on his legacy tour right now.

Speaker 4 (05:43):
It's not a good idea.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
I'll even go this far, like give me like cam
Ward over him, give me these young Kippis that we
don't know why shuck, let's go.

Speaker 4 (05:52):
I'm going to shuck shuck it.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
Let's go.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
At least there's upside in the unknown, right Like we
know what Rogers is at this point, and it's the
Steelers are going to run the ball a bunch Like
it's just not I don't think, at least not going
to be pretty uh for fantasy.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
But one other team.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
There's a couple of QB news out there right now,
and this is one I really wanted to ask you about,
because you are you are flag planting in maybe the
honest player that I like, I never would have expected
you to be going after this player. So it involves
the cults right now. Anthony Richardson said he expects to

(06:35):
be ready when camp opens up in July. Remember, he
he suffered a shoulder injury last month and had to
miss like mini camp stuff like that, and those reps
went to Daniel Jones. I'm gonna I know what your
answer is, OLQ. But for the listeners, who are you
rooting for in this camp battle?

Speaker 3 (06:53):
And why mister Jones And I ain't talking about myself.
It is Daniel Jones, man, the vick and And here's
why though, because at the end of the day, look,
I look at opportunity and look Anthony Richardson dealing with
this shoulder injury. Man, it's a bump in the road.
He doesn't look at it. It's like that he thinks
that is just an issue. But at the end of

(07:14):
the day, the coaching staff is gonna be looking at
this like this guy cannot stay healthy. So we're gonna
give most of the opportunities to the new guy that's
here that's looking for redemption in Daniel Jones. A lot
of people look at his last two seasons. He got
injured in twenty three. Last season was bad without his
main weapon in Sakuon Barkley. Daniel Jones was just removed
from an ACL tear pride to that as well. So

(07:37):
coming back, we've seen guys like Kylin Murray. It took
some time for them to get back to having that
rushing upside. And that's all Daniel Jones. It's like twenty
twenty two. We look at that season.

Speaker 4 (07:47):
It happened like seven hundred plus rushing yards.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
It's there. He finished as QB eight. That happened, eighteen
fantasy points per game. That happened for a guy who's
a QB twenty nine. I'm here for opportunity. This is
the you could wait on these quarterbacks like this. If
we're gonna be chasing justin fields that has that same
rushing upside, why not Daniel Jones, who's going for the
free sky.

Speaker 4 (08:07):
Like, if it's free, it's for me. Florio see.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
I kind of view it this back, this this battle
similarly to you.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
But I'm on the.

Speaker 4 (08:16):
Exact opposite side because that's your guy. That's your guy.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
Everything that you said is factual. But Anthony Richardson is
a better runner, He's a better athlete. He, in my opinion,
has a higher ceiling. I I if we're talking past catchers,
then I think you, like if you're a Josh Downs
dynasty manager or you love Michael Pittman junior and you
think he's gonna bounce back, which I do think Michael

(08:40):
Pittman Junior is going pretty late right now, like he's
in a buying opportunity. But if you are in on
those guys, I think you want Daniel Jones. But if
you are just drafting a QB here for upside and
they're both free, like Anthony Richardson, you could get him.
His ADP right now is like around QB thirty, Like.

Speaker 3 (09:01):
Yeah, they're back to back twenty eight and twenty nine.
Like that's why I'm like, either way you take these shots. Yeah,
that opportunity is still there for you to choose between
the two.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
You know what, I'll like, I don't love doing this
in best Ball because you can't make moves in season,
but like when we get to August or whatever, and
or scott Fishbowl is a good example of it in
super flex leagues, I'll take them both, like I I'll
wait on my QB two and take them both. And no,

(09:30):
like it's not a look, I'm not telling you like
you should go into your draft being like my QB
two is the Colts, but like take them as your
three and QB three or four something like that and
just understand whichever one wins out brings upside because of
their legs. I agree with that on both points, So
why not pair them together see how it goes in
the season something like that. It's not gonna cost you

(09:51):
much at all to do it.

Speaker 4 (09:53):
But from a.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Pass catcher standpoint, if it's Daniel Jones, who do you
think is the biggest winner?

Speaker 3 (09:59):
I think the biggest witterer has to be Josh Downs
because if we've seeing him target the middle of the field,
he likes to hit the slot a lot, and that's
what Josh Downs is and like that's kind of where
his bread and butter is. And that's a lot of
those flash plays that we've seen last year from him,
Like Michael Pittman could be in a situation where he
could be a high end wide receiver two, But with
that injuries of like last year's with the back and

(10:20):
everything else, it's like you're rolling the dice there. So
from a pass cut your standpoint, give me Josh Downs
for a late round stats like my absolute last pick
or even a watch list like which is a great tool.
I'm telling you now it's underrated. Have that watched less ready?
A d Mitchell Man. I'm telling you he needs to
get on the field more because he made some ridiculous
catches last season with very limited time.

Speaker 4 (10:42):
But I know Alec.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
Pearce is there.

Speaker 3 (10:44):
He's really the deep threat. He's the guy that pops
off here and there. That's Anthony Riches and boy, so
I know if ar is going to be the starter,
Aleck Pearce.

Speaker 4 (10:52):
Is back in business for best ball Leagues.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah No, And I individually like as individual talents, I
like all four of these, Like, I think they're all
NFL capable wide receivers who in the right like usage
could could be useful for fantasy. The issue is, to me,
this is kind of like the Packers receiver room with
the worst quarterback.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Like I do agree.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
I think Josh Downs is the one I like most
and he's best with Daniel Jones and stuff like that,
but like we saw it last year, week to week,
it could be very frustrating. Like one game, Yeah, could
be a big Alec pierceweek, then a big Josh Downs,
then big Michael Pittman, and now you add in Tyler
Warren as well, and if it's Anthony Richardson, I'll say this,

(11:35):
of all the pass catchers. Tyler Warren is the one
I'm gonna draft the most.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
I mean, look, he could be a nice tight end too,
and you know, you take him off the board, Like
if you go out there and you get a Kelsey
or a TJ. Hawk and then t like your tight
end too, is Tyler Warren. I like that combination if
you're going to go into drafts taking two off the board.
But for redraft in August, I only take one tight end. Like,
I'm rocking with you until you know, obviously to buie
weeks or some injuries happen. I feel very uncomfortable, which

(12:01):
we're gonna get into later today, because this is the
tight ends what if. Yeah, the tight end dead zone.
I feel very uncomfortable having Cooston Lovelin and Tyler Warren
as my ones, but as tight end twos.

Speaker 4 (12:12):
I'm rocking with it.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Oh, we're gonna talk about this later. But I have
builds in Bastball where those are my two tight ends
and that's it. Wow.

Speaker 4 (12:19):
I take them both and I'll rock it with the rookies.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Maybe I'll take like a Hunter Henry in round eighteen
or something like that, but I will just to be
a safety option there. But we're gonna talk more tight
ends in a bit. I was excited to talk this
with you real quick, uh. Jade and Daniels is excited
to have Deebo Samuel on screens, and his quote was,
I'm excited to throw him a little screen and hopefully

(12:45):
on the stat sheet it says a touchdown for eighty
yards and I had to do not like and to me,
I think this is why I'm so high on Jayden
Daniels and and I'm not. I'll be one hundred percent
honest with you, LQ. I'm not in on Deebo for
fantasy at all. But I think for the exact reason
that Jayden said, he means a ton for real life

(13:08):
purposes for Jayden, because last year.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
The Commanders didn't have a yak guy.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
Deebo was better on like Yaquise than anyone they had,
and Jaden Daniels amount of yak that he got was
league average. So if we're now talking about he has
a weapon on top of all the guys he had
last year that could take these short dumpoffs and turn
them in to ten twenty eighty yards like, it's gonna

(13:34):
add up quick for jad and Daniels, So I'm very
excited for what he means for Jaden. But what do
you think Deebo looks like in Washington?

Speaker 3 (13:44):
So depot in Washington, his role will obviously be like
a niche type. It'll be like a gadget type for
Cliff Kingsburys offense, because he's very good at like creating
these type of plays to get guys open in space.
So he's going to play the underneath. We already know
that's a Deebo's game. It's not a guy that takes
the top ballf He's not running a complete route tree.
He's just gonna be put in position for him to
work for yards after to catch. But my biggest concern

(14:07):
is that if you look at his yak yards since
twenty twenty one, where he put up over seven hundred,
where he was just blowing up everywhere where he just
had that breakout season because he got the bag, obviously,
but it's just slowly been declining, Like even looking at
how he's being utilized sometimes, you know last season it
was like I get that Brandon Ayuku is out, I

(14:28):
get that, you know, Juwan Jennings is still developing to
somewhat being A one. But it's like Deebo is not
catching balls, he's not running the right routes. He's off
with Rock Perdy. Like if you watch the games, this
isn't the debo in the product that I think the
commanders are getting for real life purposes, I think this
is awesome for Jayden Dans to just dump it off
where he's protecting his body because JD he's a risky runner.

(14:50):
We've seen the Sonic Greens getting knocked out of last
year and the year before that in college. So it's
like you bring in somebody that can help this offense
for for real life purposes, but for fantasy, he is
no more than like a wide receiver three to me, like,
if you're interested, if you're targeting him, make sure you're
one and two. They are solid every single week, and
just know that there's gonna be some down weeks for

(15:13):
debo where he's not gonna have that wide receiver to appeal,
where he might be a flex pay where he might
get ten points off of a couple catches.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
I agree one hundred percent with you, Like I think
he's gonna have some big games where he breaks a
tackle or something like that, and there's a bunch of
green in front of him and he just runs. Yeah,
but I think it's gonna be tough to figure because
a lot of his his stuff isn't game plan like, right,
you're not like our debo, you're gonna break this, Like
it's just yeah, he works his magic and.

Speaker 4 (15:41):
Create against bad defenses. That's gonna be great.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
If they have a bad nickel, if they have a
bad linebacker that cannot keep him contained in the in
the middle of the field, in the flats, then okay,
that's where he's gonna be able to find his work.
But okay, you go against these teams that can lock
it down. I mean, like the Rams, like this is
not gonna be easy for him to actually go out.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
There and like the Eagle be the wise one.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
The Eagles Patriots, I mean, you know them, they're in
your division, Like they got some studs over there. So
it's one of those things that you know, for fantasy,
you just have to have your expectations pulled back a little.
Just don't get sold by the name of the past
that we haven't seen in a very long time.

Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, and I agree, it's gonna be he's gonna be
probably unpredictable weeks week and all that.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
But if you have Jaden Daniels, you don't care.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
Because whatever Diego plays well, it bakes in for Jaden
as well.

Speaker 4 (16:30):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
And then the last QB story before we move on
to tight ends, Russell Wilson said he chose the Giants
because he wanted to play with my boy the special
as he calls them, wide receiver in Molik Neighbors, I
have been pretty vocal that I am a Neighbors fan,
and I didn't put it on Twitter a couple of
weeks ago, Like I don't think he should be the

(16:54):
wide receiver two after Jamar Chase, but I think he
belongs in that group with Justin Jefferson, Cede Lamb, and
Puka Nakula. To me, those are your big four after
Jamar Chase. But maybe I have Malik Neighbors goggles on.
So I want to ask you, what do you think
Malik Neighbors ceiling is this season?

Speaker 3 (17:14):
It's definitely inside the top five, Like when you talk CD,
you talk Jamar, like you have to have Milik Neighbors
there just based on the situation talent. I mean, the
vilume there is going to be elite like these guys,
he may get ten targets per game. That's where he's
living and breathing at because there's nobody else out there,
you know, other than the guys like Slayon and Theo
Johnson and stuff like that that may have little dump

(17:36):
walls and little targets here and there, but they're not
going to be eating off the same plate as Malik.
So you have to put him in that tier. And
you look at Russell Wilson, like, obviously the attraction there
only is Malie Neighbors, really, but like I think this
opens up Malik more downfield as well, because obviously we
know Russell Wilson's one of the best de passers and
it's not like he has the most craziest arm talent.

(17:57):
It's all about the placement, and that's what Malik Neighbors
was lacking. I mean, Tommy DeVito throwing the ball at
twenty yards, I mean we can kind of expect it,
not really making it there, and Leak had to do
a little overworking. So I think we get more efficiency
out of the league. I think we get more deep
bomb touchdowns from him. I think we get a little
bit more about what we see with Jamar Chase and

(18:18):
Justin Jefferson. So he's definitely in that tier of guys.
So the sky's a limit, man.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah, and that's why I think he belongs to that
group because you compare Russell Wilson's deep ball to the
four Giants QBS last year and it's not even close.
So that, yeah, he was getting all that volume on
on five to ten yard routes. Now you're gonna add
in a bunch of ten to twenty to twenty plus
air yard routes, and like you said, the sky is

(18:44):
the limit. But this is a tight end themed episode
and all we've done is top quarterbacks, So we're gonna
take a quick break here.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Stick with us.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
When we come back, we're gonna start breaking down the
tight end position. All right, talking lots of tight ends
today because I know I was out last week, but
we've been doing what if and you guys did the
dead zone for running back and wide receivers and I
loved it. So we're gonna kind of combine that into
a tight end show and do a what if and

(19:12):
a dead zone if that exists. But yeah, LQ, before
we even get into individual tight ends, what is your
strategy with the position because I do think, unlike wide
receiver and running back and stuff, you kind of gotta
go into your draft being like do I want to
tightend early?

Speaker 2 (19:31):
Do I want to wait?

Speaker 1 (19:32):
Because it's a lot more scarce of a position than
those others.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
Like this is just straight up standard and PPR, Like
this isn't tight end premium or anything. Yeah, yeah, Like
I'm usually not looking for a tight end until after
the fifth or sixth round, Like I don't feel like
I want to pay that price for a tight end.
And I feel like you can find these guys that
end up being in that top seven conversation where they
could be serviceable for your team. I mean, look at

(19:57):
Hunter Henry zach Ertz last year, Like these guys undrafted
or they're going in the teens of the rounds. So
like I feel though you could still get that type
of work. And like these rookies that we're gonna talk about,
you know, guys like Brock Bowers, he wasn't going in
the first three rounds. I mean we look at you know,
Trey McBride his breakout even Dallas Goddard and I waited
for Mark Andrews in his breakout year where I got

(20:19):
him in like the tenth, eleventh rounds. So it's like
you could find these guys so later that you don't
have to pay that premium price for the guys that
we talk about in that Big Three conversation.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
I will say, if Trey McBride falls to the third round,
I have a hard time, especially like maybe if I'm
like the first pick in the third round, I won't,
but like if I'm a little bit deeper into the
third round and he's there, I have a hard time
not drafting him. You never get brock Bawers there, so
you don't have to worry about that. And I'm not

(20:51):
taking a tight end in the first two rounds. I
know how good brock Bowers is. I know how good
Train McBride is. I just hate the build when you
when you take a tight end that.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
Early, so nasty.

Speaker 3 (21:01):
You miss out on so many good guys from multiple positions,
Like I'd rather pivot to a quarterback there where Again,
I really like to wait on these positions, but like
if I absolutely have to, Okay, give me Jayden Daniels,
you know, give me Josh Allen, give me of that tier.

Speaker 4 (21:17):
If I'm going to be spending round three.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
You're not taking one round three? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (21:21):
Yeah, no, no, no, no, yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Most definitely, So like I will sometimes go McBride otherwise,
I like, I love t J. Hockkinson in the middle rounds,
but he's getting pulled up more and more and more.
We're gonna talk about him, Yes he is. I find myself.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
Waiting a lot.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
I've been burned so many times by these middle round
upside tight ends, and.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
Like I see, I see the appeal with.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Some of them and stuff, but like like you said,
so many tight ends broke out late off the waiver
wire were serviceable that Like, yeah, I find myself taking
a lot of Lovelyn and Warren or and pairing or
cur like like the tight end and Jok who goes
in that range, Yeah, Craft goes in that range.

Speaker 4 (22:09):
Like Todd Let's say Tucker Craft.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yeah yeah, I'd rather just wait and double down and
take two shots in the later rounds or something like that.
But everyone is different when it comes to tight end.
So we're gonna play tight end What if game?

Speaker 2 (22:23):
What if H do it?

Speaker 1 (22:25):
What if Rock Bowers and Trey McBride are as good
as wide receiver ones?

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Do they? Then? In your mind constitute a second round pick.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
Oh no, Like I still have that hesitation of what
we talked about, Like, you know, do you know the
guys you're gonna miss out on if you take them
in that second round, Like you're gonna miss out on
the Lab mccony, You're gonna miss out on the t
Higgins if you pull that trigger on Bauer. So like
I kind of want that upside for them to break
that mold. And like even with these two guys in

(22:57):
their situations, there's no talent with Marvin Harrison, you know,
is he actually gonna step up? And that target share
comes down for trade McBride or brock Bauers with this
change of offense, Like there's too many gambles there for
a position that I only need one of. Like I'm
not missing out on the ladder Rashid Rice or t
Aggans or even a Garrett Wilson in that type of
range for these guys. So I don't know if they
will be good enough as a wide receiver one. So

(23:20):
at that cost, I don't know. Man, that's real nasty
work for me.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
Cuz last season, if you take their points scored, brock
Bauers would have been wide receiver nine and Tray McBride
would be eleven. So they did return for like like
top twelve wide receiver value. But I'm still with you.
I'm just a and look, brock Bauer's got a QB upgrade,

(23:46):
a huge one. Tray McBride is in the same exact situation,
should have more hopefully some more.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Touchdown luck go his way.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
But I did yesterday I put a tweet just as
I was preparing for this show, and I just put
tight end like one and two, and I gave some
stats about them, and like, Titan one was brock Bowers,
Titan two was Trey McBride.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
McBride had a.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
Higher passer rating when targeted, he had a higher catch rate.
They were even in yards per route and yards per target.
McBride had more EPA, he had more end zone targets,
he had more air yards, and they averaged the same
amount of separation. Like I get brock Bowers was a
rookie and he has a QB upgrade. In all of that,
I just also feel like Trey McBride is being a

(24:36):
little underrated. Like I feel like whoever Bowers is going,
McBride should be right there, which is.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
Good though, like Trey McBride if his ADP falls down
a little bit, because like he's like pick twenty five,
so that's like late second, early third. If he falls
down on that turn, I could still get my t Higgins,
Garrett Wilson, whoever I want. If I'm in those early
picks like pick one through four, you know, like on
that turn, I still have opportunity of securing him. Because
again everybody's going for the Brock Bauers, and I get

(25:02):
he gets the quarterback up grade with Gino Smith, but
Gino Smith isn't like really no known for a guy
that's going to be heavily targeting his tight end. Like
I understand that, you Chip Kelly is the OC over there,
and Pete Carroll's the head coach, and they have to
understand the agenda that brock Bowers is that guy. But
Jack Best is pretty damn good on that perimeter. Jakobe
Myers is pretty damn good as a wide receiver, and

(25:24):
he's held it down with bad quarterback play to put
up wide receiver one type of numbers. So this whole
change of offense of how this ball is gonna come out,
and the thing is like since twenty twenty one with
Gino smith Man, like he is great at targeting his
tight end second highest completion rate. He had seventy eight
point seventy eight point six percent eight point one yards
per ten, which is third since twenty twenty one when

(25:46):
targeted and tight end position. It doesn't show a lot
of production in the yards and the targets and everything else.
It just shows the utility and his ability to be
very great when locked in on the tight end. So
there is upside for Brock Barers to be more efficient,
to be a guy that can be utilized as a
guy that could be your wide receiver one at that cost.
But again we talked about it that hesitation, like there

(26:07):
is no guarantee in Stone that that's going to happen.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
And there's talks about using two tight end sets because
they have Michael Mayer there and that is something that
Carol did in Seattle. So yeah, like Bowers has the upside,
But I I'm not arguing against Brock Bowers. I'm just
arguing that I think Trey McBride brings similar upside because
their stats were were very even last year and McBride

(26:34):
had two touchdowns, Like if he had seven touchdowns. He's
the runaway tight end one, you know, so exactly if
I can get because Bowers are gonna have to take
in the early second round, probably the first half of
the second round.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
I feel like, but like I had.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
A best ball the other day where I had something
like Ceede Lamb and Lad McConkey as my first two
picks and McBride slid a bit in the third, and
I was like, this is the type of situation.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yeah, I want McBride.

Speaker 4 (27:00):
I don't want him as my second round pick, but if.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
I could get him in round three with two stud receivers,
because then I feel like I have three wide receiver ones.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
Now if I have d We need the fantasy streets
to bring down Trey mcbrides, you know, ADP let them
do that thing. They do that with every random player
where they talk.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
They were doing it last year.

Speaker 4 (27:18):
There was a lot of doubting it with Trey McBride.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
What about George Kittle, because George Kittle was phenomenal last year,
Like it was. I think you.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
Could make a case it was easily a top two
season for George Kittle. You could make a case that
it was maybe his best season, which his best season
was probably twenty eighteen, but uh, this last season, he
had the second most yards in his career, he had
uh the second most touchdowns of his career, and he
finished as the tight end three.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
But I am weary to pay that tight end three.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
I'll actually say this, in all of my drafts so far,
I don't have any George Kittle because, Wow, my fear
is the forty nine ers were super banked up last year.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
They didn't have Christian McCaffrey for much of the year.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
Brandon Ayuk was a lost cause at the beginning of
the year and then he was gone before we knew it.
Ricky pearsall we know what happened with him before the season.
Deebo Samuel wasn't quite Deebo. So like there was any
missed time too, there was a lot there was games
where it was like George Kittle and Jawan Jennings and
that's your passing attack. So it's gonna be a lot
more crowded now this year. I'm not doubting George Kittle,

(28:33):
Like we know his talent is amazing, but there is
a reason why George Kittle went four years with three
years without a thousand yards and then last two years
ago he barely topped one thousand yards, like because of
the amount of receivers around him. But as a RAMS
fan who watches the forty nine ers so closely, how

(28:56):
do you feel about George Kittle?

Speaker 3 (28:58):
I feel like kittle Man last year was great for
a lot of fantasy rosters for those obvious reasons that
you mentioned, with the ups and downs of that roster.

Speaker 4 (29:06):
Saying healthy now.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Tight end three is kind of expensive as well. Man, Like,
I know we're sitting here talking Bowers and McBride and
like he's going at the forty six pick, and I get,
you know, there's some question marks with some other positions
there in that area. I still feel nasty taking Kiddle
off the board, not really knowing I can project that
he has that same season he had last year. You're
basically putting your.

Speaker 4 (29:28):
Hat on that.

Speaker 3 (29:28):
Okay, Well, there's no debo and AU's coming back from injury,
Ricky Peterser tweaking his hamstring right before Mini camp is
going to be Juwan, Jennings and Kittle. But that's not
even guaranteed in stone. So if you're gonna roll the dice,
this is a tight end show. Today, I'm not rolling
the dice on the tight end man, because it doesn't
make much sense. And again, he barely topped one thousand

(29:49):
yards with this on display of a thick deebo, Samuel Brandon,
Aiyuk injured, and Juwan Jenlings still developing.

Speaker 4 (29:56):
To be a serviceable one.

Speaker 3 (29:58):
So with all that on the table and he's getting
up there in age now, I think the cliff is
right here where we're going to have to start talking
about him outside of the top five where there's new
toys coming into this league. Again, how many rookie tight
ends will it take for us to wake up? Like
there's some production there. You just have to be a
little patient for some, but there's some type of production there.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
I agree one hundred percent, because like you have to
pay a fourth round pick for George Kittle, you can
wait almost double that and then take your pick of
the forty nine. To me, the forty nine ers receivers
are the buying opportunity in this offense exactly. They're all
going outside the top thirty thirty five wide receivers right now.

(30:40):
So to me, so that is where I want to be.
But what about then another top high end tight end
Sam laporter Right, what if cause no Ben Johnson anymore,
Plus they lost their passing coordinator as well, So what
if the Lions offense just looks completely different this year year?

Speaker 2 (31:00):
And do you think that is in the range of outcomes.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
It's definitely in the range of outcomes because Ben Johnson
on the sticks, he kind of was deploying these these
avengers I would call them, because it was a high
power offense. And even with Sam Laporta, you know, he
is the tight end four right now, and I feel
like that's still in that range of like the like
the sixth seventh round where we're going to be really
talking about where these tight ends are going to go.

(31:25):
And he had volume last season, but he just wasn't
as impactful as he was obviously, like he still has
the red zone presence and a high power offense. But
at the end of the day, man, it's like we
didn't get that return that we paid for after his
rookie season. So we're still looking at a guy right
now where so many question marks about his position, his role,

(31:45):
his volume, and his actual impact. And again we like
the target like tight end friendly offenses that have a
high target percentage and five offenses last season had over
thirty percent of the tight end target share and the
Lions were not one of them.

Speaker 4 (32:02):
And when you're.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
Looking at his tight end target share last year for
the Lions, which were ranked twenty second, it's a nineteen percent.
So that dropped dramatically from twenty three percent where they
were top ten in the league for tight end percentage.
And you see that much of a drop off, and
this is with Ben Johnson. I can't imagine what that
looks like without him. With the emergence of Jamison Williams
as well, let's just say he's got his ground, his

(32:24):
feet on the ground now and things are starting to
look up for him. That doesn't really indicate that, you know,
Sam Laporta as an early seventh round pick is going
to be great for your roster builds. So it's one
of those things that I'm not telling everybody to fade
the top five tight ends, but you just have to
construct your roster to be built. You're safe and secure
at the other positions wide receiver, quarterback, running back. However,

(32:46):
you go in those first six to seven rounds that
you are willing to roll the dice on a Samlporter
or George Kittle that we just spoke about.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
Yeah, I'll a lot like Kittle, So I won't say
I have no Sam Laporta in my early drafts, but
I don't have much. And where I do have him,
it's either one of two things.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
It's either like a super.

Speaker 1 (33:05):
Flex draft where I'm pairing him with Jared Goff or
he's falling like past his ADP and I'm like, okay, this,
this feels like a good price to get Sam laporter
because I agree with everything you said, Like last season
his tart he had a near forty target decrease, and
I know he missed the game last year, but still

(33:27):
his touchdowns dropped, his yards dropped, And the big part
of it was Jamison william broke out and he was
the number two target there. But then you add in
the number three target is going to be the running
backs if the offense looks the same. So like it's
Sam Laporta is another one. Even going back to his

(33:49):
rookie year. I was all about drafting Sam Laporta as
a rookie, but then last season I was like, I'm not.
I don't believe it because if that ten touchdowns falls
down to set in A eight where and that I
know the yards fell and everything, the catches fell, all
of that. I didn't think it would be that big
of a drop off. The truth to me is probably
somewhere in the middle of the last two years, and

(34:11):
I just I don't want to pay the price that
so I'm with you. But now we start getting into
the tight end range where I can I can get excited.
So my next question is what if l Q is
back in on TJ Hockinson because we talk.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
About lq's draft from over the weekend.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
When he posted it, I said, I immediately hit the
textchain that Marcus always references and I was like, look
at who the tight end is because it was the one,
the only TJ.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Hawkinson.

Speaker 3 (34:45):
Oh my god, man, listen, it took some new information
for me to get back in on Howcken. You guys
are giving me crap for not being in on how
because he was definitely in the satual discontent as well. Man,
But him returning back from injury now he's he showed
up a little bit. But there might be a different
situation going into the season with Jordan Addison. July fifteenth

(35:07):
is that trial date, So we don't know if he's
going to get suspended and.

Speaker 4 (35:11):
For how long. So there's going to be a lot
of volume coming his way because typellon the rookie, I
don't see him coming in for Jordan Addison immediately hitting
the ground running Jalen Naylor. He's cool, he's.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
Flashy here and there, but at the end of the day,
it's going to be Justin Jefferson, TJ. Hawk, and where
Hawk is going. There's a reason why he's my number
one most exposed tight end right now in Best Ball
Draft because I'm going to jump on the opportunity right
now before his ADP shoots up, because that's exactly what's
going to happen. It's going to shoot up to a
range where I feel uncomfortable and I'm going to be

(35:43):
back out on TJ. Hawk because my concerns really was
just vyum. I mean, a twelve percent target share, man, Like,
what are we doing here? I can get a Hunter
Henry and zach Ertz who had an eighteen nineteen percent
target share of their team, because it shows more of
their importance and more of the impact they make on
their offense.

Speaker 4 (35:58):
And t J.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
Hawk is cool from a talent standpoint, but buying miss
King when it comes to these tight ends.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
Man, I'll say this, I'm kind of hoping that Addison
does nothing happens and they and Hawkinson's adp falls because
I think he is their number two target in this
offense this season, and I think you always see.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
It in year one.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
They're they're working their way back to form and stuff
like that, but even more than that, to rookie, Well,
for our purposes, it's a rookie QB. I know he
technically was rookie ye last year.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
We ain't going for technicalities. Dead boy ain't touch the
field now once.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Last year he look he's gonna obviously throw to Justin Jefferson,
but I think he is going to look to and
I think koc is gonna draw up a lot of
like quick, safe over the middle throws.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
For the big tight end.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
I maybe it's also how I feel about Addison, Like,
I think Addison is a good wide receiver, but I
just think he is very inconsistent week to week, as
most number two's are, right like, especially when you're opposite
to someone like Justin Jefferson.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
I'm saying it's hard show up.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
Yeah, definitely, so free so yeah, Hockinson to me, I think,
because I do think it's possible. Like, look, koc just
got the most out of Sam Darnold, he could get
the most.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
Out of JJ McCarthy. So if that's the case.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
I think Hockinson sees enough volume where he could be
top five. And then if something happens to Addison, I
think we're talking about Hockinson could be top three. So yeah,
I am firmly in Still Hockinson is the first tight
end of all of them. Like I said, I really
like McBride and stuff like that too, but Hockinson is

(37:35):
the first one where I'm like, that is the sweet
spot of like talent means opportunity meets draft price that
I'm willing to pay, So like, absolutely, yeah, he is
one of my.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
Guys right now.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
I'll tell you this. I I have no Travis kelcey uh.
So I wanted to ask you, like, what if Travis
Kelce is toast because last season, like I don't I
for a while and I've been driving this train, I've
been like, the Chiefs don't care about the regular season.

(38:06):
All they care about is making it to the playoffs.
And they show us that time and time again.

Speaker 4 (38:11):
And then every October where like what is wrong with
the Chiefs?

Speaker 1 (38:14):
They just don't care, Like they just want to win
and keep their best plays in their back pocket for January.
But that and that was what I was saying with Kelsey, right,
like maybe we've seen the last the best of like
regular season, Kelsey is behind us, But I was like,
come the playoffs, I wouldn't be surprised if we see

(38:35):
Travis Kelce turn.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
Back the clock.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
That didn't really happen. Like he had a huge game
against the Texans, who every tight end put up numbers
against last season. Yeah, but then against the Bills nineteen
yards and in the Super Bowl thirty nine yards. So like,
and again, if you go by Kelsey's game log last year,
there was like two or three good fantasy games and

(38:58):
that's it. So like, damn, I'm washing my hands clean
of Kelsey. I know he's a legend. I know he's
maybe the greatest to ever do it, but he's kind
of like Aaron Rodgers in a sense where like I
see you too much when you're not playing football, and
I don't see you enough doing enough on the field anymore.
I don't want that on my fantasy team. But how
do you feel.

Speaker 3 (39:18):
I feel the same way, man, Like when I look
at the core fantasy season, it's those first thirteen games.

Speaker 4 (39:24):
Man.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
I need to make it there if I'm going to
be paying these draft rices for these tight ends or
any other position. And I don't have time to wait
until week eight you start showing up. My team is
already down, Like we're in the gutter now because of you, Kelsey,
because you're scoring less than ten fantasy points from an
offense that should be high power, where one of the
best quarterbacks out there should be getting him the ball.

(39:46):
But what we saw lefts what took a dip was
that yards per attempt towards Kelsey, and he was not
stretching the field as he usually does. He's not taking
those big hits across the middle like he was before.
All these dump all passes are going elsewhere. So I
don't think we're going to get the best, most efficient
Travis Kelce anymore. Those years are behind us. This is
where you know, I'm in the draft room hyping him

(40:07):
up to my league mats, you know, my home league.

Speaker 4 (40:09):
Shout out to y'all.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
Yeah Travis kelcey man top three, Yeah man, Travis Kelcey
Patrick Mahomes, you can't go wrong. He will be the
guy that I will be setting the traps up in
the draft rooms. So yeah, he's toasted.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
Yeah, And like you go by year by year, like
twenty twenty two was maybe the greatest fantasy season and
Tightan never had fell off. Didn't he get a thousand
yards two years ago? Then eight hundred last year? The
touchdowns have continued to decrease, and that was with one
hundred and thirty three targets last year.

Speaker 4 (40:40):
That's insane.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
He saw that number because Rashet Rice got hurt after
a month, Xavier Worthy was a rookie, Marquis Brown got
hurt before the season started, and they didn't really have
anyone after that.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
Like, yeah, so he guys, are we else? Touchdowns drop
though that's a different conversation. Yes, sir and sir, those
touchdowns drops and as Kelsey fell off, I'm just saying
they haven't found the fix yet. They haven't found the
fix of what's going to be for moving forward.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
I think their fixes is their receivers. They just need
them to stay on the field, which is a whole
other conversation.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
But if those guys do stay healthy, you're talking about
Travis Kelcey getting even less volume than he had last year,
where he was a low end tight end.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
One Like, for me, right now, his price is still
the eighth round though, bro, Like, I can't see myself
saying this is a steal, This is great, this is
great for my roster build.

Speaker 4 (41:34):
No, because you could.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
Still wait rounds later to get a productive tight end
that has probably some touchdown upside.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
Yeah, Like I I'd much rather wait and take Marquise
Brown four rounds later, you know, Like, like we.

Speaker 4 (41:51):
Talked about that on the last five. Yeah, if you
want to wish I was here, man, he's my most
drafted wide receiver.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
But what Mark Andrews lets his playoff struggles carry over?
Because this is something I think about a lot with
and it's not just a football thing. Like, Yeah, in baseball,
we saw a couple of big name closers in like
Devin Williams and Emmanuel Class struggled in the playoffs and
then they opened up this season.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
Struggling pretty badly.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
Like it's and and Mark Andrews was to another level,
like he didn't talk to the media after all all
of that. Ravens fans wanted him gone. I always wonder,
like what if that carries over and like what if
he just something isn't but like he lost his con
I don't know. I don't like to get in the
heads of players, but like also there's a lot of

(42:42):
target competition now on the Ravens, you add in Dja,
you have Isaiah likely who those two guys might not
see a bunch of volume, but they're gonna be used
in the red zone probably, and that's where Mark Andrews
makes his money. So you were in big on Andrews
last year, are you again this year?

Speaker 2 (43:00):
No?

Speaker 3 (43:00):
Unfortunately, and for that exact reason, Like I mean, he
started the season slow because of that car accident and
he might have been still banged up and everything like that,
finished the season kind of poorly with the struggles in
the playoffs, and you both are on contract years with
you and Isaiah likely where I'd rather take the discount
on Isaiah likely because I think he's going to cash
in and get that extension to where they really want

(43:23):
to see what he has and stored, Like they know
he's a red zone presence. But when it comes to
Mark Andrews, you know he's Lamar Jackson's guy. You can't
really forget that the chemistry that they built. So hopefully
there will be sometimes in some games where you know,
he'll have those spike weeks and he ends up falling
into the end zone. But I can't risk that on
a week to week basis that once upon a time,

(43:45):
this was a top three tight end. This was a
guy that you can just start and forget. That is
no longer the case here with this situation.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
And truth be told, it was only one year like that, right,
Like Mark Andrews was really good in really reliable, but
he is one year with over eight hundred and fifty
two yards. He was always touchdowns were what you drafted
Mark Andrews for, Like he was gonna give you yards
and some catches as well, but he wasn't like he
was Travis Kelcey in that regard, like you're drafted. I

(44:17):
go back and forth on Andrews because of everything I said,
like the more touchdown competition, but what you hinted at
with the the car accident and the weird start of
the year last year, like part of me is like, no,
this guy showed he could still play and he were
getting a little bit of a discount on him, but
he is thirty. Truth be told, I don't What you

(44:40):
do in drafts to me is always the biggest test
of what you really feel on a player, and I
don't have a ton of Mark Andrews.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
Might crazy though his freaking catches from twenty twenty one
went from six catches to per game to four the
next year in twenty two to four and a half
to twenty twenty three and then three just like last season.
That is clear indication that the cliff has already came
and we're still buying on that twenty one season. And
I think we do that a lot with players just

(45:08):
based on the big highlights of the team, their high
power offense, LaMarsh playing his best football ever, but Lamars
playing his best foot football ever without Mark Andrews being
his guy. So it's like one of those things that
you have to take what's in front of you at
this point to I'm not going to be in on
Mark Andrews this year. I don't know many people in
Florio you said you not, so's toast.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
I will say this though, of the tight ends in
his range, like if we put Kelsey, Evan Ingram, John
new Smith, like let's say that it's.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
Like a tier.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
He is tied to the best QB and the best offense.
So that is one thing I will give for Andrews. Like,
even if Andrews doesn't see the volume as much as
he has in the past, the chances of him putting
up like he's a little less volume dependent because of
the QB and offense that he's in true if that
makes in my opinion at least, because.

Speaker 3 (46:01):
Eleven touchdowns ain't nothing to light either last year. I
mean that could just be his role. If you're good
with that, I'm good with that.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
Like, like, of those teams, the Ravens are clearly the
one that's gonna lead in passing. Yeah, so like that,
absolutely he has that I think is what keeps him.
Like if he was on a different team, I think
we're all washing our hands of marketing.

Speaker 4 (46:23):
You mean, he's gonna be a Patriots. You're gonna be
on the Patriots next year?

Speaker 2 (46:26):
Maybe maybe Patriots.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
We're not interested, Like, I mean, he'll be drafted, but
we're not talking him.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
Up for fantasy.

Speaker 4 (46:34):
Like, no, absolutely not.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
This next one might hurt you, lquh. I don't find
myself in on John news Smith at all. So but
you are the John new guy. I wanted what if
he struggles to duplicate his career season or do you
think he's he's good to go.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
I do think there's gonna be a different tone this
season with John new I'm not as loud this season,
but I am still in on John newe based on
he showed Mike mcdanie. What could be with him showing
up when you know their quarterback is out of the
Tyreek's not playing his best football, Wattles somewhere in the
parking lot nowhere to be found, Like John k New.

Speaker 4 (47:12):
Was the guy.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
So like, if you construct this offense to play towards
where John's either the second or third option in this
in this offense, then yeah, I can be in on
John news tight end nine. But I just feel though
with the contract dispute right now because there was like
some trade rumors going on and stuff like that, I
don't know if this is in stone, then he will
be here and if he will be utilized the same way,

(47:35):
you know. So it's one of those things like you
gotta roll the dice, scare money, don't make money. But
you know, I got some shares of John New but
I ain't pumping him up to be a top five
tight end again.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
I think that's the right approach, right because he there
is upside here, like like we saw it last year,
like we know what the upside in this Miami in
the year before.

Speaker 4 (47:56):
That, you know he's shown us.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
But there's also a lot Like for me, for one,
I always had a tough time buying into a career year,
especially when that career year is at twenty nine years old.
But even more than that, I did a deep dive
of the Dolphins offense and it was like, yeah, after
Tua got hurt, and even when Tua returned, their offense

(48:20):
was get the ball out of his hands as quickly
as possible, which is why they were leading the league
in screens and which is why John new Smith had
as many targets. He was getting the ball like four
yards out downfield, like they were just like he can
make after he can't. He's the yak king of the
tight ends. Though he could do it.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
He definitely is.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
But I think if you're Mike McDaniel in the Dolphins offense,
you look at that period and you're like, yeah, we
were a pretty bad offense and like we need to
get the deep ball back into our game and if
that happens, Like, I don't know about you, Wolq.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
I know this is a little off topic.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
We're talking tight ends, but I don't really find myself
drafting the dolphin like I'll draft von E Chan in
round two and then that's kind of it.

Speaker 3 (49:04):
That's it, because if things go south with the wide
receivers with two of not being there, then that's what
you get. At least eight Chan was still serviceable and
had those big spike weeks where everything was on his
back to where like I could feel okay taking him
in that late second, mid second round wherever he's going,
like he's the only dolphin that I feel like I
can acquire.

Speaker 4 (49:22):
Like there's a little there's a little buzz.

Speaker 3 (49:24):
Right now that Wattle is a bye right now, Like
there's some people that are like hyping him up that
he could be a sold wide receiver two free. But
if two goes down again, I can't have Wattle as
like a borderline flex play week to week when I'm
drafting him as my wide receiver two It just doesn't
make sense.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Yeah, I'm not really because even if I think Tyreek
is starting to show that age cliff and starting to
tumble and fall, but he's still going to get volume,
like right like he's gonna be if he's out there.
It's not like he's going to completely go away. Then
you add in John hu Smith Wattle a Chan is
going to get a bun like.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
I'm I'm good on that passing there last one before
we take a break, because I know this is your
tight end.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
The guy that you like is a lot. What if
Sean Payton has his best tight end since Jimmy Grant.
Let's go man.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
I love Evan Ingram man and what he bring the
Jacksonville I mean shout out to Duvall him playing with
Trevor mid Lawrence. But Evan Ingram is able to show
up in times to be very very tight end one
like and I think you know with bo Nicks and
you have this offense that still has an open door
for target share after Sutton, why can't Evan Ingram be
that number one too?

Speaker 4 (50:30):
I mean that number two target for them, and where if.

Speaker 3 (50:32):
He stays healthy, he's putting up top five tight end prices,
I mean top five tight end numbers. So it's like
I'm gonna take a guy that can be you know,
impactful with him. I'm gonna take a guy that could
have that red zone presence as well, because we know
Sean Payton loves.

Speaker 4 (50:47):
To get his tight ends involved in that red zone.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
Yeah, and I do think the Broncos passing attack is
like Courtland Sutton is way too underrated, Like I think, Yeah,
there as a whole that team just feels a little
outside of RJ.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
Harvey. Everyone loves r J Harvey. Oh yeah, the rest
of the guys.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
Get.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Listen.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
We are a Pat Brian pod before. You may not
know it yet, Florio, but you were a Pat Brian fan.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
I look, I am. I take him in like the
eighteenth round of my best ball drum.

Speaker 3 (51:18):
Yeah, but let's keep putting on the hush hush.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
But when we come back, you guys talked a lot
about RB and wide receiver dead zones. We're gonna talk
is there a tight end dead zone.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
And who's in it?

Speaker 1 (51:30):
And then we'll quickly go over any late round tight
ends we like, So stick with us.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
Will be right back here on the Fantasy Football Show.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
So yeah, LQ, I was sad I missed the dead
zone talk last week because I think it is such
a big important episode. But you always hear about the
running back dead zone. In recent years you've started to
hear about the wide receiver dead zone. Is there a
tight end dead zone? And if so, for you, where
is it?

Speaker 3 (52:00):
This is tough man when it comes to the dead
zone because the entire tight end, like rankings, is just
an entire dead zone.

Speaker 4 (52:05):
Boy, what if you ask me?

Speaker 3 (52:07):
But like when you start getting into like that tenth round,
you start getting all the way down to like the
fourteenth round, Like that's where it gets so tough man,
where you're like did I wait too long? Or did
I find a gym? Because there's some gems in there,
But then there's like majority of it where it's like, yeah,
I messed up. Can we start over? Like can I
get a mulligan? Because like I should have took my
tight end like six rounds later. So like when I

(52:29):
talk about the dead zone, like here's guys of like
the round ten you love Tyler Warren. You spoke about
how you double tap on the rookies man, and like,
let's rolling the dice, my brother, because there's a lot
of mouse to feed over there in Chicago and we
don't know what the quarterback position is gonna look like
with Indy. So those are like the rounds ten through fifteen.
It's like where it's like hard man, I.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
Do see, I agree with that, Like at that range
you're throwing darts and stuff, but we all know that
at that range. Like to me, I think it's the
tight ends that we just spent a lot of time
on last segment. They like the Kelsey, Mark Andrews, Evan Ingram,
John hu Smith range. Like I like Evan Ingram of
that bunch, but I think those guys they're more they

(53:14):
come with a higher price tag. You're using a middle
round pick on these tight ends here, which could be
a very valuable running back or wide receiver. Ah, but
they all come with landmines to me, So like, yeah,
that's kind of why I'd rather because to me, I
think like a Warren or a Loveland brings similar upside
is that tier Maybe it's a little bit more unproven,

(53:36):
but I think they bring similar.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
Upside but at a at a cheaper cost.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
So uh to me that Like I again, it's just
maybe i'ven't burned too much by the Donkin kids and
the Kyle Pitts is and all the way back to
the Kyle Rudolph years. But like I always found in
the middle round tight ends that I'm like, these guys
are gonna break out, and then they almost always burn you.

Speaker 4 (53:56):
David's in that bag that we left at as well.
That's one of those things. It's hit or miss. It's
very hit or miss based on the bad quarterback play,
because he plays better with bad quarterbacks. I don't know
why that's the thing, but that's just what it is.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
I love the talent that is David n Djoku, but
I don't want to I don't want to do it,
I think because it just anyway, like the quarterback could
change any week, like Jerry Judy, Deontay Johnson Fanning the
new rookie tight end they drafted, Like it's not even
the volume as much to me as it's just like

(54:29):
I think they're going to be a run heavy team
and the QB play could range from anywhere from awful
to below average, you know, like.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
It's yeah, I don't see it being any better than that.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
But so I've already mentioned I love Tyler Warren because
I think he's a big body tight end that either
quarterback there and he could get the ball.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
To across the middle.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
I like Colson Loveland a lot because he's the handpicked
Sam laport A two point zero by Ben Johnson. Besides
those two guys, because there, I will admit, of these
later round guys, they are the ones with the most height.
Are there any other late round tight ends you find
yourself like consistently?

Speaker 2 (55:08):
Now?

Speaker 3 (55:10):
I've been getting a lot of Isaiah likely because we
talked about him. I like his opportunity on a contract situation.
But then there's Tucker Kraft and then there's the Breton
Strange Like, there is tight ends out there and those
later rounds that have opportunity with volume and they can
give you those ten points that I talk about. That
is literally the standard that I want with a late
round tight end because I'm trying to stack up at

(55:32):
other positions that are going to handle you know that
that gap there that I'm not getting from that tight
end position. But these are guys that are in tight
end friendly offenses where that target percentage is going to
be there for that unit. Even if they're not the
tight end one, they could be the tight end to
the team twelve twelve personnel, whatever the case may be,
but these are still pass catchers well up upside in

(55:52):
red zone presence, Like I even like the Hunter Henry
Man and Mason Taylor another rookie that's being forgotten that
could possibly be a number two over there with Justin
Justin Fields. So I definitely think you have a wide range.
But I can tell you a few that I ain't touching.
I ain't touching Dalon Schultz, I ain't touching Kyle Pitt,
I ain't touching Jake Ferguson. I'm not touching any of

(56:13):
those guys right there.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
We're gonna we're gonna.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
Disagree on one, but I agree with you on like likely,
I agree with on the ones that you said you're
in on.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
I'm in on two at their costs.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
But Dalon Kinkaid is one that I definitely find myself
drafting a And I know people are gonna be like, oh, well,
he's a Bills fan, but look at what Kinkaid was
their top target until he got hurt last year, and
then he's he's tied to a Josh Allen offense and
he's cheaper than ever. And then the other one I
found myself taking as like a late round tight end

(56:45):
two is Kyle Pitts.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
Just no, this is a sick man no at that range. Like,
look if he was going.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
Tight end twelve or thirteen and be like no, but
he's going like tight end eighteen, And I'm like, okay,
at that point, I could, I could, I could see
the upside there. Like you have to pay a second
round pick to get Drake London, you have to pay
nothing to get Kyle Pitts. Like and look, I'm not
saying that they're equal or anything like that, but it's

(57:15):
just it's so both of these two guys are cheaper
than they've ever been in fantasy before, and to me,
that is a buying opportunity. But I agree with you,
Like I like likely a lot. I think Hunter Henry.
I think Hunter Henry is a better best ball.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
Target right now.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
I think when we start really drafting in August, they'll
probably be on waivers in.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
A lot of leagues.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
But then with the rookies too, like Mason Taylor and
Elijah Arroy are in my best ball draft, I take
them as tightan.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
Threes often if that's if like I wait.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
On a tight end and I'm just throwing darks here
in the later rounds like those are two guys because
they bring upside. I think in your redrafts they'll be
waiver wire names because even if they get drafted, usually
slow out the gate. If that happens, probably get dropped
after like week one or two.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
But yeah, if I have more than like seven bench spots,
like which is rare in one quarterback leagues or whatever,
but I'll take a tight end too, and I'll take
a Hunter Henry, I'll take a zach Ertz. I'll take
you know, a dunkin Kaid, even though my mans can't catch.

Speaker 4 (58:16):
I mean, I ain't I.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Ain't gonna mare league.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
I ain't gonna be you know, putting them in a
lot of exposure leagues. But it's one of those things
like if I have the bench spot, then these guys
do come in as service for guys with injuries and
bye weeks.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
I I almost it depends on again, like if I
have like a McBride or a Hockinson or someone like that,
I'm not taking a tight end too. But if I
wait and I end up with like one of these
low end tight end ones or Tyler Warren or Colson Lovelin,
I do I'm gonna try to take both rookies, but
like say, I end up with one of them, like
a Kincaid fits because he Tucker Kraft. Also like they

(58:53):
bring upside even though the floor might not be sturdy.
So to me, if I wait, that's what I want, right, like,
I want those up Hunter Henry might outperform them all.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
I agree with that, but.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
His upside is capped, whereas these other guys have more
of a ceiling. And that's what I'm looking for because
if it doesn't hit, I'll pick up a Hunter Henry
or a zach Ertz or a Breton Stranger, whichever one
of these tight ends ends up on the waiver wire.
But okay, I don't know if we could talk more
tight ends than we did. I mean, we pretty much
win kind of clear de basis.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
Yeah, yeah, An, we didn't bring up that.

Speaker 4 (59:27):
You want to talk about Terrence Ferguson.

Speaker 3 (59:30):
No, I'm playing never draft a rams tight end ladies
and gentlemen. It does not work out. I know Sean
McVay used to be a tight end coach over there
in Washington, but they do not serve as impactful guys.
They are decoys. They are sometimes red zone guys. But
Terrence ferguson you know the fantasy streets. Let's keep that
on the huss hush oh.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Before we go, Gavin did remind us the reason why
Travis kelce and I have a theory here, the reason
why his numbers have taken a hit is because Travis
kelcey was on his deathbed and then had to come
back because he moonlights as Tyler Rake in the offseason. Like,

(01:00:12):
tell me, you don't greg Olsen kind of belongs. I
only see Kelsey though. Tell me Kelsey and Tyler Rake
from the movie, uh, extraction extraction. If you've been watching
Chee Chee, you know we've watched Extraction one and two
this summer, tell me they don't look the same.

Speaker 3 (01:00:31):
Look Travis kelce can be an Extraction three as the
antagonist trying to kill Tyler Rake. And like, seriously, like
this looks like a movie role here where Greg Olsen
just plays as like the iger Alba of the guy
last year that's who he works for. He works for
Greg Olsen. That is awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
You know, you know how.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
It's gonna go Extraction three, Like it's it's gonna go
like a fast and the furious twist where they're like.

Speaker 4 (01:00:55):
Oh my god, and you've never known.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
And then he's gonna walk in like that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
That's I the entire time I watched Extraction, I was like,
why am I watching Travis Kelsey do these things? Like
that's all I see and oh my god. Maybe that's
a me problem, but I see it. I see the vision. Look,
not everyone can marry Taylor Swift. He needs he needs
some money in himself, right, So he's he's moonlighting in

(01:01:24):
Hollywood in the office, which is probably what he's gonna
do when he actually retires.

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
Right absolutely, I could see him having a TV show
or something coming.

Speaker 4 (01:01:31):
It's there.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
It's gonna be weird.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Next year when we don't have Aaron Rodgers, Travis Kelce,
like all these players who have been staples in our
fantasy wives are soon going to be gone. So if
you're into that thing, enjoy them while they're here. But uh,
we're we'll be back Thursday, just a little housekeeping. Me
and Lke were gonna be doing the cheat sheet on Thursday.
Marcus is still going to be away and then just

(01:01:57):
letting you know next week we will be dark. It
is not a US thing. It is an NFL media thing.
All of NFL media kind of takes the week off
and then when but what that means is when we
come back, it is it is go time, right like
that is when we are in draft mode and and everything,
So enjoy we'll be here Thursday, but enjoy next week,

(01:02:19):
Fourth of July cookouts, all of that, and then after
that it is go time and we get real serious
here because it is draft season.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Just go like that. I'm gonna do my best here
to be MG.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
But that'll do it for this edition of the NFL
Fantasy Football Podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
Say happy, safe and healthy, do good and live well
and we'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 4 (01:02:40):
Wow, I don't built