December 29, 2021 • 36 mins
Host Andrea Kremer takes us back to 1997 when NFL Films Steve Sabol interviewed former NFL defensive end Reggie White. Fresh off of his 1st Super Bowl Championship, Reggie explores his decision to leave the Eagles and join the Packers and even reveals other teams he was considering playing for. Outside of football, Reggie explains the importance of his ministries and how he planned to do more than just preach to those in need.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to NFL Films Tales from the Vault, a weekly
podcast where you'll get to hear raw, unedited conversations that
have never been heard before in their entirety between the
legendary Steve Sable and some of the most interesting and
iconic figures in NFL history. I'm your host, Andrea Kramer,
and I'll be guiding you through these time capsule interviews,
(00:28):
providing context and insight. Now, when I started my career
as NFL films first female producer, Steve was my boss
and mentor. Over his five decades as president of NFL Films,
he conducted hundreds of interviews. Today we head to Title Town,
Green Bay, Wisconsin, where Steve sat down with a newly
(00:51):
crowned Super Bowl champion, Reggie White. I actually met Reggie
when I was a producer for NFL Films and he
(01:12):
had just signed with the Philadelphia Eagles a few games
into the season. Although he had won Rookie of the
Year honors, he had already played two seasons with the
USFL Memphis show Boats. Reggie was like this larger than
life man child with that big smile and signature scratchy voice.
What I quickly learned was that he was as kind
(01:33):
and genuine off the field as he was relentless and
dominating on it. Above all, he was a man of
principle in every aspect of his life. The summer after
the Packers Super Bowl victory over New England and New Orleans,
Steve traveled to Green Bay to interview Reggie, who was
then in his twelfth NFL season, at last a Super
(01:54):
Bowl champion. So, as usual, let me set the scene
for you. Now, Steve liked to do interview was in
places that defined his subjects. Remember him sitting with Brett
Farve on the dock by the Bayou. Well on this
hot August day, Reggie and Steve weren't in a pew
in church, but rather in the bleachers at Lambeau Field. Now,
(02:16):
before Steve gets to Reggie's reflection on finally winning, he
dives into Reggie's days with the Eagles, the Gang Green Defense,
Reggie's conflicts with then Eagles owner Norman Brayman, and his
eventual decision to sign with the Packers. Reggie, when you
go back to when you when you played at the Eagles,
you look back and you look at that defense, Jerome Brown,
yourself Joiner Simmons. That might have been it could have
(02:40):
been one of the greatest defenses of all time. Why
didn't you guys win more games when you were with
the Eagles? Well, I'm thank you really started a top
you know, we had some great players. Uh, some guys
that that that were extremely dedicated to trying to win. Uh. Yeah.
It was frustrating every year when we got ready to
go to training camp, you know, we didn't have our
top guys and uh well it was we costing money,
(03:03):
you know, and and uh so it was frustrating because
I mean to me, training campus, well you build a camaraderie,
and we can never build our camaraderie. Uh you know,
we went into the season and we ended up playing
with all the time, we could never win the big game.
So it was extremely frustrated. And I think that when
the team has a commitment from the top to the bottom,
(03:25):
it gives them gives him an opportunity to win. And
I just don't think that everybody was on the same page.
And for the death, But what about the fans in Philadelphia?
What did you think of them? Because a lot of
people would say there's some of the toughest fans that
they are the most ungrateful. They don't know the game,
they just criticized. How did you feel about the fans, Well,
I think there's the fans, I mean, in particular, people
that supported us constantly. I mean they were great. I mean,
(03:49):
no one ever treated me with any disrespect when I
was out, uh in any kind of way, and they
were extremely dedicated to the team. Of course you had
you fly by knife fans that would come when we won.
But uh, the fans are tremendous their feeling. I think
that it's just come. Uh you know that their frustration
comes from uh situations. I think with guys who come
(04:09):
in anybody's teams, and it's frustrating when there's no commitment
and then there's not a high level of playing particularly
bigger games from the teams that are there. So I
can imagine that they're extremely frustrating. Now when there was
a lunchon in Philadelphia, when it's very emotional lunching, and
I remember something you said that that you're not giving
up on the Eagles. You said the Eagles are giving
(04:32):
up on me. What did you mean by that? Well,
during that time, I think that two months before I
come to that lunch, and uh, Mr Brayman had called
me and told me that he was gonna make me
an offer. Two weeks later. Uh, you know, I've read
the paper where he said, look, you know it's time
for the Philadelphia Eagles and Reggie White to depart. And
to be honest with you, I mean it had gone
(04:53):
out of me. I mean I had no enthusiasm about
wanting to be a Philadelphia Eagle again, not because of
the fans of the p because there was like three
or five thousand people that you know, went down town
that demonstration to keep you on the team. Yeah, and
I mean that was I wanted to go, but it
would have been too emotional, and uh, I didn't want
to end up making an emotional decision, you know, about
(05:14):
what I wanted to do. But uh, it was just
the process of you know, just everything that was going
on there and the Eagles pretty much said, hey, you know,
we don't want this guy no more. And uh, which
ended up being fine with me, because I mean I
wanted to try to get a new start, you know,
and hopefully find a team that would be dedicated to
(05:35):
win it. Now, you went on that recruiting tour. Now,
What were some of the things that some of the
teams did to try to convince you to to to
play with them. I think in Atlanta, did you meet
the governor? Yeah, I meant the government and spoke to
the state Assembly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, we were
spoken to all the state representatives and uh, you know,
(05:56):
it was funny, but it was exciting. I think the
funnest thing to happen when visited San Francisco. Uh, you know,
me and my wife got there and we went in
the room and we noticed there was a Christian station
on and we started laughing about it. So we wanted
to eat with some of the guys, and Uh, I
told Brent Jones, I said, Brent, I said it, Uh,
when we got in the room at a Christian station
(06:17):
on and we're laughing about Brent started laughing harder and
I left. Well, he laughing hard. He said, there's just
one Christian station in this area, so they must have
been a lot of work trying to find that states. Well,
did I heard that when you toured the Cleveland facility
that Art Modell band profanity to the whole locker room,
that nobody could curse watch your language, that Reggie did
you ever hear that? Well, I heard about them, but
(06:39):
nobody cursed while there. So well about what convinced you
to come here to Green Day, I mean the tradition here.
Did that mean something to you? It ended up meaning
something to me. But at the last minute, Uh, when
I visited here, I remember, you know, this was just
a drop by from Detroit. I mean I didn't want
to come up here, and I wanted to go on
home because I was tired of the traveler. And uh
(07:00):
there was a snowstorm here uh and in Detroit and
they had no more flights going to uh uh to
uh Green Bay, so the package sent a private plane.
And when we left, I was impressed with the whole
organization because they gave me what they had. You know,
it was it wasn't it wasn't elaborate, it wasn't enormous.
That just gave me what they had. And uh So
(07:21):
I was flying back and I told uh my agent,
I said, man, I said, uh, I sounded the package
that shocked the world. And I said, no, I ain't
know what ever sound the back So you know, really,
uh so that went through your mind? They went through
my mind? And uh really I thought I was going
to San Francisco and uh and I remember really praying
about it, and I thought, God, it actually spoke to
(07:41):
me about going to San Francisco. So I was excited
about it. When Washington came in with a low office,
I was like, we're going to Frisco and uh So
I talked to my guy and they said we can't.
And I was like why. I said, well, it's rumored
that you get cut after two years because the salary cap.
And I talked to a running a lot in a
few other guys, and they were to me about, you know,
the situation, some of the situations, and I was extremely confused.
(08:05):
So I went downstairs and I started praying and and
I mean I was crying because I wanted to make
the right decision because I already made it, uh public
that I wanted to go one what guy wanted me
to go into where there was an inner city and
green Baker, Yeah, the green Baker fielding because green Bay
is not a big city, don't have a lot of
major problems in the inner city, and don't really has
(08:25):
a small inner city. And uh so, while I was
down at praying, uh you know, Green Bay gave me
the best offer. I was down at praying. God asked
me something and it wasn't like he said, Reggie, it
was just in my mind. He said, uh, what are
they calling green Bay? Now? I said, what they calling
him to San Francisco? The east because of the offense.
Said well, what are they called offense? I said, the
West Coast offense. He said, what did the head coach,
(08:48):
the officer, the coordinator, the defense avecordinator come from. He said,
what I said, they all came from San Francisco. He said,
that's right, I want you to go to Green Bay.
And I was like, wait, wait, wait a minute. Now,
why didn't you just tell me? And he said, because
I had to get you on your knees. I had
to get you crime to make the right decision. I
had to get you before me. And why as I
knew that, I felt so comfortable about the decision I made,
(09:08):
And it didn't have all to do with the money.
It just had to do what I knew that. That's
what God has said. Look, this story wasn't God or
the money that led him to Green Bay has always
been greeted with a degree of skepticism from fans and
media alike. Bottom line. In April of nine, White signed
a four year, seventeen million dollar contract at that time,
(09:31):
making him the highest paid defensive player in NFL history.
The Packers won a bidding war with Washington and San Francisco,
and it changed the perception of Green Bay as a
place where players would want to go. But there's a
much bigger issue going on here than just did God
guide White to Green Bay. Reggie White had brought a
(09:51):
class action lawsuit that was settled in February of which
essentially began the salary cap free agent in the National
Football League, changing the landscape of player movement forever. When
we come back, Reggie and Steve talked about winning the
Super Bowl and whether or not that finally satisfied the
(10:12):
future Hall of Famer. Stay tuned, welcome back. Remember those
great NFC teams in the nine nineties, all those terrific
rivalry games. It seemed that the Packers were always knocking
on the door. In Reggie White's first three seasons in
Green Bay, they lost to Dallas in the playoffs, either
(10:36):
in the NFC Championship Game or the divisional round. It
seemed that Dallas always had their number in head coach
Mike Holmgren and the Packers seemed poised to take that
next step, but they suffered some midseason adversity. But it
was that adversity that Reggie White points to as one
of the keys to getting over the championship hump. Right now,
(10:57):
we're in Green Bay. Was there a game last year
where during the regular season that you thought we're gonna
go all the way? The team is finally at the
level where I thought it could be. Well, I think
really in the truck game when we were pretty much
lost all our receivers, and the seed of resilience is
something you know, we were Mike and some of the
(11:18):
other guys would have started challenging guys who were going
to finally be giving an opportunity, and a lot of
the young guys stepped up, and uh, you know, and
I knew doing that process. Hey man, if these guys can,
we can hold on for a couple more weeks. You know,
we get a lot of guys back that we had injured,
and once they came back, I knew them. Man, you know,
we keep doing the things we're doing. Nobody to compete us. Now.
(11:40):
Before the NFC Championship game, did Mike pull you aside
and just talk to you personally before that that game
before you played the Panthers, Uh, and say anything to
you and challenge you specifically before that game. Well, he
pretty much told me that, uh, if it was gonna win,
it was in many respects, it was gonna be up
to me that you know, I had to go out
(12:02):
and do the things that I'm I'm good at doing
in order to inspire the other guys. And uh, of
course that time to Carolina when we played them, they
did a lot to make sure I didn't make any
place and uh, you know, but he pretty much put
a challenge to him. And I think that the challenge
pretty much came about when the Super Bowl came and uh,
(12:22):
you know, and I I mean, it wasn't it was
an exciting opportunity, but it was. It was. It was
exciting to the point where, you know, Mike Steele felt
confident in me that if I could go out and
do the things I needed to do, that it can
it can really filter throughout the whole team that when
a super A lot of fans don't realize this, but
you see after the Super Bowl, you don't see the
films of that game that season is over. If you
(12:44):
had seen them films of the Super Bowl, how would
you critique your performance? Well, in the first half, I
think they put a good game plan together because we
expected them to run a lot and they play accidents
to death. So because of that, I mean one thing,
it was hot in the dome, and that smoke was
killing us, you know, from all the activities and uh
you know. So it was like, to be honest with you,
(13:05):
when we stepped out there, and when we got through
the warm ups and stuff and all that smokers in there,
You're like, Okay, my dreaming. You know, you think you're dreaming.
I thought I was dreaming for a minute, because really
I couldn't leave it. I finally made it to a
championship game and then have all the smoke, you know,
when you have dreams, you see all this missed and stuff,
and uh, you know, and and I felt real sluggish.
(13:25):
And I remember going to the sideline really uh after
they running touchdown the third quarter, and uh, I told you,
Gene Robinson, I said, man, my legs are not doing nothing.
I feel like I'm running their mother something. And Eugene quoted,
I was there for the thirty one to them and
says that they wait upon the Lord, she'll monther with
the wings of eagles. They should run and not get tired,
and you're walking not get weary. In the next series,
(13:47):
I come out and get two straight sacks, So you know,
I mean, I felt that my strength was renewed, and
Eugene played a great part in that. Uh. But it
was exciting to finally be there again. Uh as there
for the thirty one. They didn't mind up with winds
of eagles. Uh. Uh, they didn't wait on the lordship
or knew their strength. They should mone with winds of eagles.
(14:09):
They should run and not get tired. Uh, we're in
and they should walk and not get tired. Now another
shot that we have that I wanted your We have
a shot of you at the end of the Super
Bowl with holding up that trophy running around on the field.
What was going through your mind at that? But the
reason I did think it was first to finally to
(14:29):
finally win the championship. I've never won a championship on
any level. To follow win one and uh, and not
just to finow and win one, I was. I was
excited about that, but I wanted to run around that
field with the trophy, to let the Packer fan know that, hey,
it has been a long time for you and you
deserve this just as much as we do. I don't
think that they're fans in the country to support their
(14:51):
team as much as the Green Bay Packer fans, and
they're the best in the world. And uh, I wanted
to hold that up, not only for you know, us
have an opportunity to win and me finally been on
the team to win one, but to let them know, hey,
you guys are the original champions. Now we're bringing this
back to you and you deserve it just as much
as we do. When you look back at your career,
(15:12):
if we were going to go through the NFL Films
library and somebody told you, Reggie, you gotta pick out
one play and this is gonna be I'll make it
easier for you. One play or one game that this
is the concise resume of Reggie White's career. Could you
pick up one play or one game that we put
in a space capsule and send up there for the
(15:33):
next millennium. One play. Uh, there's a few players I
can pick out, Okay, but I guess one player is
you know, a different allotments. Dream is always touched out
against the Redskins. Right, Okay, okay, we got that one.
Let's have another one. Let me see I think you
(15:54):
know the plays that you know, like really looking at
us as you know, been a power player. Uh one.
To me, the most awesome move that there is is
a club move. I mean that's when you well, that
was on my first sact. That's what I did that.
Max Lane is a club him and went inside. So
what's the difference between a club and a head slap?
Though slappers and the hand slappers in the head club?
(16:19):
How do you It's almost like a hiptops. It's you know,
you get your arms up. You either get your hand
up on an armpit up a guy and slinging. I
mean that's literally thrown. And to be honest with you,
how A Long is the first guy I ever seen
do that? And it's the most awesome move I've ever seen.
What it is is that here's the when I do it,
I run up to field and I'm trying to let
the guy see it, and once he gets close to me,
(16:41):
you get your arm and you're throwing. You know, it's
it's you don't been your arm. You pretty much keep
your arm straight and you're throw him to the outside
and you take the inside move. Now that's let's say
that that sack would be one of the players that
you'd want to put away forever in this time. How
about a game a game uh, since I've been with
(17:04):
Green Bay. Probably the game that that I can remember
that was on the line when we played Denver and
I had two sacks that did of the game just
say the game uh in Philadelphia probably you know, I
think the Monday night game we played against uh the
Giants and when Randall uh get the tackle and he
(17:29):
steps back and that was that was probably one of
my my biggest games during that time. And uh, you know,
that's a game to really stick out and go. That
was the first Monday night game that I played, so
that that pretty much sticks out of my mind. Now
when when when you watch you play and you hear
the broadcasters talk, it just seems everything just seems so
easy for you. That Reggie is fast and he's powerfully.
(17:50):
So what's the most difficult thing for you to do
on a football field? What's the one area that maybe
that that you don't think you're that good at that
you still want to improve or or an area that's
really tough for you. Well, you know, I think as
as you get older, I mean there's always stuff that
you find that, uh, that that you need to improve on.
And you know, the thing that I always do is
(18:12):
that I'm more critical on myself than anybody. So you know,
we can go out and play and I can do
We're gonna run fifty plays and I can do fur
the great things. But I'm concentrating on the ten bad
things that I did and trying to improve on those. So, uh,
the thing that I know is that I realized that
the older you get, the hall you have to work.
If you want to keep up with this game, you
have to work harder than your opponent. And uh, the
(18:35):
thing is, the game has changed so much. People don't realize.
You know. People say, with Reggie White slowing down, he's
not like he used to be. He don't do the
things he used to do. Well, there are reasons from that.
Now you let the office allownment sit back behind the
send it, so you're taking inches away from the defensive
a linement. You're letting the quarterback roll out and throw
the ball away when he wants to so that takes
away from your game. So you have to try to
(18:57):
get smart and figure out, Okay, what can I do
to adapt to this, you know? And uh so you know,
to me, I have to keep working and I have
to think that, you know, I can have a better
year than I had last year. And I don't look
at it really there have been a weakness in my game.
The things that I look at is that, Okay, I
(19:20):
didn't I messed up on this place. That means I
got to concentrate more on what I need to do
to make sure I'm better on that that play. And
uh coming into the season, you know, for a defensive
linement officeive linement, we don't have one another work again,
so you know, you get scared because you may feel like, I, man,
I can lose something if I'm not careful. And uh so,
once you get back into the season, you have to
(19:41):
start back adapting again. And I think that the thing
that has given me an edge is that I know
that when I come to training camp, I'm in better
shape than anybody and that that really keeps me, keeps
me over the top. After all that you've achieved on
the on the football field, Reggie do you finally feel
fulfilled or do you have any other goal? I thought
I would be fulfilled, Uh the super Bowl, but monster
(20:06):
super Bowl is over. I realised something. My career is
not over. And I remember what I told the players
coming into uh the season last year. Don't celebrate your career.
Don't celebrate a great game, don't celebrate being All Pro
one or two years. Don't celebrate none of that until
your career is over. Then you can look back on
it and you can reflect on it. Then you can celebrate.
(20:28):
And uh, the thing I realized. I realized, hey man,
this is what I told a got my career is
not over. It's great to be a champion. Finally, they
and my career is not over. And when my career
is over, then I can look back on it and
I can I can celebrate then, but not now. What's
interesting to me about this conversation and so many others
like it, are two themes that seem common amongst almost
(20:51):
all great players. They always obsessed about the plays they
didn't make, rather than celebrate the ones they did. That
mentality the loss hurt more than the winds feel good,
has driven many a player or coach out of the
game note parcels Comma Bill. But Reggie channeled that inner
dialogue as a path to constant improvement. In fact, I
(21:14):
always marveled at this key attribute of Reginald Howard White.
He was always seeking to learn. When we come back,
Reggie and Steve get into some of those life lessons,
how Reggie gained toughness as a child, and what was
really important to him off the field, helping those in need.
(21:36):
Welcome back to Tails from the Vault. Reggie White and
Brett Farve, on the surface couldn't be any more different. Sure,
they were both from the South, but in Reggie was
thirty two years old, the venerable Minister of Defense and
Farve was only twenty four and undoubtedly in his carefree
(21:57):
phase in Green Bay. Now, the bond they had his
teammates was undeniable. They were perfect complementary pieces leaders on
offense and defense. But when they initially met in they
were on opposing teams. I want to go back to
the Eagles again. When you were playing with Eagles, did
you ever played against Brett? Yes? What do you remember
(22:18):
about about that? I remember we played them, and I
mean they we came to Milwaukee and played them, and uh,
they were moving the ball on us. I mean they
were running the ball up and down the field, and
it kind of we were shocked, to be honest with you.
And uh, I remember coming around a corner hitting Bread
and when he hit the ground, I knew I had
separated the shoulder. And uh, he went to the sideline
(22:39):
and I told the guys said he threw and uh,
next time I know, he come running back out, you know,
his shoulder and uh and and beat us. And uh.
I remember, hey, man, this guy's gonna be good because
he's got a tough mental attitude. And uh, you know,
I was just I was extremely impressed with what he did.
And I found out later that he had actually went
to the sideline to Mike that he had separated his
(23:01):
shoulder and he was asking Mike to only let him
throw the ball to his right side because he couldn't
throw it to his left because his shoulders. So uh,
I thought of my mom, Man, I would let to
play with a guy like that. Okay, this is an
example of what's so interesting when you look back on
an interview from twenty years ago with new information in perspective.
(23:21):
I believe this eerie link between five and White has
really been overlooked. So Reggie separated Brett's shoulder five took
Viking in to ease that pain, but when he injured
his ankle a few weeks later, Farve became fully hooked.
In fact, it wasn't until doctors treated farv who had
had a seizure, that they discovered his addiction. And it
(23:45):
wasn't until that far finally sought treatment, spending seventy five
days as an inpatient in the Meninger Clinic in Topeka, Kansas.
For a man like Reggie White, who was by nature
a helper and a healer, he his role in injuring
five was about to come full circle when Brett was
(24:05):
going through all of the when he came out of
the detox center and everything, did you say anything to
him about how much that was support? Or did you
talk to Brett during the season? Uh was what what
was your relationship like during with BREA A great relationship
and you know we talked, uh before he went in.
When the day he made the announcement, Uh, you know,
I called and we ran each other down and we talked,
(24:27):
and uh, you know, he said that he wanted to
really what the problem he had. And uh, the day
I admired about him so so much is that he
knows how to take adversity and and making an advantage
to himself and for himself and for the people around him.
And uh, that's what he did last year. He took
his adversity and he turned around and it motivated him,
(24:48):
uh to be great. And uh you know, I mean
he had that my person like that because some people
let it versity get to him and it ended up
taking him down here, but bred allotted to elevate him
to another level. Could you describe the one moment in
your life when you really needed the most courage, If
there was one moment in your life where you really
had to look down in yourself, look down into yourself
(25:11):
and really draw out all the courage that you had
this or one moment that stands out in your mind.
Now that's not really one moment. I mean, Uh, I
think the thing that helped me would really been in
my courage. That was my high school coach. Uh and
then Robert Pullium he Uh, he taught me what toughness
and and having courage was all about. And it helped
(25:32):
me in my spiritual life. Uh. I don't. I don't
think this guy realized how much you really helped me.
And what he used to do is he used to
he used to uh at times wrestle me and he
would get me down and he would hold me down.
My high school coach and if I laid there, he
would keep me down until I cry. And uh when
we played basketball, he would he would do things in
(25:54):
me made me cry. And I remember one time we
played basketball and this guy was six to about two eight.
He players university and uh he uh he uh elbowed
me and I wanted back and started crying, and some
of my classmate like, I was like, uh, I think
seventeen years old, that's but now he I mean, he
(26:14):
really got after me and uh but he would do
things to me to really make frustrate me. And uh,
you know, and he like when we rastled, as I mentioned,
he would get me down. We had two other coaches
that were just as big as he was, and every
time I would get over on him, they would pull
me off. So that got me frustrating. I get the
crying and tear eyed and uh so he elbowed me
real hard and I went back there and I was
(26:35):
like tired of him doing this to me, so I
never forget that. He came into back and I thought
he's gonna apologize to me. And he looked at me
in the eyes and he said, if you think that
I'm gonna stop, you can forget it. He said, until
you start fighting me back, I'm gonna keephopping your tail.
I'm like, man, So I started fighting back, and uh,
you know, and that in the last two wrastle matches
we had, I won. And when we played basketball, I
(26:58):
mean I would throw him around and uh, but that
you ever talked to him? Now? Yeah, and uh, you know,
And I didn't realize what he did until I signed here.
I mean I really did until I signed here. I like,
you know what, he taught me how to be tough,
and he taught me how to have courage, and uh
I called him up and thanked them for it, and uh,
he told me, so I'm interested. He said, you know,
I called every one of your mothers, every one of
(27:19):
your parents. Uh and as every one of your parents
could I do to uh their sons what I did
to you? He said, your mom was the only want
to say yes, Probably the only thing Reggie was known
for more than football was his spirituality. He was ordained
at age seventeen and spent the majority of his time
(27:41):
not sacking quarterbacks, helping others and preaching to those who
would listen. And speaking of listening, I remember back in
early the day after the Packers had won the NFC
Championship over Carolina. We're getting ready to head to Super
Bowl thirty one. I was doing an interview with Reggie
the net Today. He walks into our room, that larger
(28:03):
than life figure, and he looks at me and says,
in that gravelly voice, They're gonna have to listen to me. Now,
Reggie was confident he was going to win a ring,
but he was almost as exultant that he was going
to have a pulpit in front of the world's media.
This idea of taking action over preaching ideology played a
(28:23):
big role in the way Reggie and his wife Sarah
would minister in the community. Now, when you look at
your career, that's a tough question. And all the good
things that you've done with community and with your teammates
and all of can you think back on one good
deed that you might have overlooked, And now you look
back and you think I should have done that. I
(28:46):
really and you feel a little guilty about not doing this.
This one good deed, well not not really one good deed,
that that type of thing that I learned from the Delf,
you though. You know, we did a lot of street
minister Miss Sarah, and we would take the kids with us,
some of the ball players, and we did it for
two years. And uh, every time I would leave, I
felt a void. I felt like there's something I didn't accomplish,
(29:07):
something someone was missing, and I felt that God had
called us into these communities to really speak a word
to the people in the communities. And uh, every time
I left, I was like, Okay, we preach, but there's
something missing. And when I got up here, God made
me realize what was missing. You know, we went in,
we preach, We told the people what they needed. We
were trying to encourage the people to change their life
(29:27):
for Christ's sake. And the thing that God showed me
is that we met no needs. You know, we didn't
help the drug dealing get off drugs. We didn't help
the uh, the drug addict get off drugs. We didn't
help the game banking stop banging. We didn't have the
process to to stop setting themselves. We wouldn't meet no
one's needs. And the thing in these communities that you
have to realize is the reason that people responding to
(29:48):
crime because crime is paying them, uh, and they have
no other alternative but to get involved with that. I
talked to a lot of young game members and every
one of them to tell you the reason I'm doing
what I'm doing because we have nothing to do. And
I think that that that revolution and my thinking to
the point where I realized that the resources that I have,
I have to use them to try to create opportunities
(30:08):
for other people. And uh, you know, just realizing that,
I mean it made me feel bad and in some
respects it made me feel guilty, but I had to
be I had to be brought to a point in
my life where I realized, Okay, this is what needs
to be done. You know, people getting tired of being
priest to They getting tired of being taught that they
need to see some action. They need some people that
would really stand up and fight for them and care
(30:29):
for them and create opportunities for them. If you could
go back to school and take one subject that you didn't,
what would it be uh knowing what you know now,
I probably would have uh uh you know I was
interested in history, but I probably would have gotten uh
taken African American history. Uh. And the reason I would
(30:52):
have a lot of people. And I've had the reporters
asking the question, why don't black athletes go back and
help the people? And as a simple answer to that question,
when your your heritage and your history has been stripped
from you, you don't appreciate yourself. Let a long appreciate
your neighbor. And uh. When you look at the Jewish community,
they they strictly teach their history and their heritage. They
(31:13):
teach about the Holocaust uh school. And one day I
knowed about Jews. Uh. Jews uh in manute respect, be careful,
distrust each other more more than anybody. But the thing
that I respect about him, even though that they distrust
each other and manage respects. When something comes together for
the community, they come together. They try to benefit the community.
(31:36):
And you know, you look at that and you say, hey,
you know, you don't have to like each other, but
you know, when it comes to help and one another,
you know, let's let's come together and help one another.
And I think that that's the thing that I've seen
our community fell in because our history and our heritage
hadn't been taught to us. Uh when we go to
public schools, we're not taught black history. You know. I
(31:56):
had a young kid tell my pastor one time, he's
a straight a student, sixty years old, quit school. My
pastor aske him, why did you quit school? He said, well,
since I was six, I've been in school. He said,
I've never saw a black face, and any of the
history books, uh that I've read that contributed to anything.
And he said, I know that my people invented something,
they did something to contribute to America. And uh so
(32:19):
when that's the case, you have a lot of our
kids it's just not interested in the American education system. Now,
when you when you go out and you talk to
kids like that Reggie and they look at you, what
do you want them to feel when they see Reggie White.
I want them to know that I'm real. I wanted
to feel God's presence. I want them to feel like,
hey man, this guy don't think he's more important than
(32:41):
I am, you know. I mean, I've talked to kids,
particularly Milwaukee, to the young game Bangers, and we sit
down and we talked. They talked about me, I talked
about them, you know, we joke around. I want them
to be able to touch me and say, hey man,
this guy, this guy, I don't think he better than
I am. You know, he he puts himself on the
same level that I am. Uh. At times, I have
(33:02):
a friend who brings some of the kids up to
spend the night uh with us and just hang out
with my kids, because I want my kids to see
that side too, so they want to grow up to
think that they're better than anybody else. I want them
to see what other people go through and what other
people experience, and uh for them to appreciate what they
got to try to use what they have to benefit
other people's lives. So, you know, I just want people
(33:23):
to feel, hey man, this guy is real. He's not
a phony. You know, he don't think he's better than
nobody else. He's trying to help me. So if he's
gonna try to help me, then I need to try
to help myself. Do you have any role models when
you were growing up? Did you have a role model? Uh? Well,
my high school coach, UH was my male He was
my role model. Uh. And professional sports. It was guys
like Dr J Bobby Jones. I mean, baseball is han't Karen,
(33:45):
you know. Uh? But Dot he just had so much class, man,
And I was like, you know, that's that's how I
wanna be. You know, I want to, I wanna I
want to. I want to have class just like that man.
How about the Muhammad Ali? Oh, he was everybody's hero
and he still limitate. Yeah, I'm the greatest of all time.
People know, I'm pretty. I can still fighting. Sam Oh,
I'm not old. Okay, we got it. Two years after
(34:10):
Steve's lambeau Field interview, Reggie retired from the Packers. He
returned for one season with the Panthers into thousand, but
then White's life took a turn as he set out
on a quest to find his purpose. He had an
idea for a religious themed amusement park, but that never
came to fruition, and after countless hours preaching and millions
(34:32):
of dollars spent supporting the church during his fifteen year
playing career, after his retirement, he began to seriously question
the word he had been spreading. He stopped preaching and
never set foot in a church again. Memory told you
he was constantly learning. White spent endless hours studying Hebrew
(34:54):
to be able to translate the Original Old Testament himself.
He had a Hebrew teacher and even traveled to Israel.
I asked Sarah one day what religion Reggie considered himself,
and she said he was a seeker of the truth.
I remember when my phone rang early in the morning
December two four with the news that Reggie White had died.
(35:17):
He had passed away in North Carolina at the age
of forty three. Died in his sleep. One of the
reasons he suffered from sleep apnea. In two thousand and six,
he was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
His wife Sarah delivered an incredible induction speech, and as
someone who was in attendance, let me tell you it
was one of the most difficult days I can remember.
(35:41):
I know how magnified that was for Sarah and their children,
Jeremy and Jacolia. Reggie White was a great football player,
but he was also someone I considered a friend. I've
enjoyed listening to him talk to Steve, and I certainly
hope you did as well. Next week, we finally switched
back to offense when I dig out Steve's interview with
(36:01):
Dan Marino that took place just months after the Hall
of Fame quarterback retired from the Dolphins. I hope they'll
join us. Thanks for listening. I'm Andrea Kramer.
Welcome to NFL Films Tales from the Vault, a weekly
podcast where you'll get to hear raw, unedited conversations that
have never been heard before in their entirety between the
legendary Steve Sable and some of the most interesting and
iconic figures in NFL history. I'm your host, Andrea Kramer,
and I'll be guiding you through these time capsule interviews,
(00:28):
providing context and insight. Now, when I started my career
as NFL films first female producer, Steve was my boss
and mentor. Over his five decades as president of NFL Films,
he conducted hundreds of interviews. Today we head to Title Town,
Green Bay, Wisconsin, where Steve sat down with a newly
(00:51):
crowned Super Bowl champion, Reggie White. I actually met Reggie
when I was a producer for NFL Films and he
(01:12):
had just signed with the Philadelphia Eagles a few games
into the season. Although he had won Rookie of the
Year honors, he had already played two seasons with the
USFL Memphis show Boats. Reggie was like this larger than
life man child with that big smile and signature scratchy voice.
What I quickly learned was that he was as kind
(01:33):
and genuine off the field as he was relentless and
dominating on it. Above all, he was a man of
principle in every aspect of his life. The summer after
the Packers Super Bowl victory over New England and New Orleans,
Steve traveled to Green Bay to interview Reggie, who was
then in his twelfth NFL season, at last a Super
(01:54):
Bowl champion. So, as usual, let me set the scene
for you. Now, Steve liked to do interview was in
places that defined his subjects. Remember him sitting with Brett
Farve on the dock by the Bayou. Well on this
hot August day, Reggie and Steve weren't in a pew
in church, but rather in the bleachers at Lambeau Field. Now,
(02:16):
before Steve gets to Reggie's reflection on finally winning, he
dives into Reggie's days with the Eagles, the Gang Green Defense,
Reggie's conflicts with then Eagles owner Norman Brayman, and his
eventual decision to sign with the Packers. Reggie, when you
go back to when you when you played at the Eagles,
you look back and you look at that defense, Jerome Brown,
yourself Joiner Simmons. That might have been it could have
(02:40):
been one of the greatest defenses of all time. Why
didn't you guys win more games when you were with
the Eagles? Well, I'm thank you really started a top
you know, we had some great players. Uh, some guys
that that that were extremely dedicated to trying to win. Uh. Yeah.
It was frustrating every year when we got ready to
go to training camp, you know, we didn't have our
top guys and uh well it was we costing money,
(03:03):
you know, and and uh so it was frustrating because
I mean to me, training campus, well you build a camaraderie,
and we can never build our camaraderie. Uh you know,
we went into the season and we ended up playing
with all the time, we could never win the big game.
So it was extremely frustrated. And I think that when
the team has a commitment from the top to the bottom,
(03:25):
it gives them gives him an opportunity to win. And
I just don't think that everybody was on the same page.
And for the death, But what about the fans in Philadelphia?
What did you think of them? Because a lot of
people would say there's some of the toughest fans that
they are the most ungrateful. They don't know the game,
they just criticized. How did you feel about the fans, Well,
I think there's the fans, I mean, in particular, people
that supported us constantly. I mean they were great. I mean,
(03:49):
no one ever treated me with any disrespect when I
was out, uh in any kind of way, and they
were extremely dedicated to the team. Of course you had
you fly by knife fans that would come when we won.
But uh, the fans are tremendous their feeling. I think
that it's just come. Uh you know that their frustration
comes from uh situations. I think with guys who come
(04:09):
in anybody's teams, and it's frustrating when there's no commitment
and then there's not a high level of playing particularly
bigger games from the teams that are there. So I
can imagine that they're extremely frustrating. Now when there was
a lunchon in Philadelphia, when it's very emotional lunching, and
I remember something you said that that you're not giving
up on the Eagles. You said the Eagles are giving
(04:32):
up on me. What did you mean by that? Well,
during that time, I think that two months before I
come to that lunch, and uh, Mr Brayman had called
me and told me that he was gonna make me
an offer. Two weeks later. Uh, you know, I've read
the paper where he said, look, you know it's time
for the Philadelphia Eagles and Reggie White to depart. And
to be honest with you, I mean it had gone
(04:53):
out of me. I mean I had no enthusiasm about
wanting to be a Philadelphia Eagle again, not because of
the fans of the p because there was like three
or five thousand people that you know, went down town
that demonstration to keep you on the team. Yeah, and
I mean that was I wanted to go, but it
would have been too emotional, and uh, I didn't want
to end up making an emotional decision, you know, about
(05:14):
what I wanted to do. But uh, it was just
the process of you know, just everything that was going
on there and the Eagles pretty much said, hey, you know,
we don't want this guy no more. And uh, which
ended up being fine with me, because I mean I
wanted to try to get a new start, you know,
and hopefully find a team that would be dedicated to
(05:35):
win it. Now, you went on that recruiting tour. Now,
What were some of the things that some of the
teams did to try to convince you to to to
play with them. I think in Atlanta, did you meet
the governor? Yeah, I meant the government and spoke to
the state Assembly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, we were
spoken to all the state representatives and uh, you know,
(05:56):
it was funny, but it was exciting. I think the
funnest thing to happen when visited San Francisco. Uh, you know,
me and my wife got there and we went in
the room and we noticed there was a Christian station
on and we started laughing about it. So we wanted
to eat with some of the guys, and Uh, I
told Brent Jones, I said, Brent, I said it, Uh,
when we got in the room at a Christian station
(06:17):
on and we're laughing about Brent started laughing harder and
I left. Well, he laughing hard. He said, there's just
one Christian station in this area, so they must have
been a lot of work trying to find that states. Well,
did I heard that when you toured the Cleveland facility
that Art Modell band profanity to the whole locker room,
that nobody could curse watch your language, that Reggie did
you ever hear that? Well, I heard about them, but
(06:39):
nobody cursed while there. So well about what convinced you
to come here to Green Day, I mean the tradition here.
Did that mean something to you? It ended up meaning
something to me. But at the last minute, Uh, when
I visited here, I remember, you know, this was just
a drop by from Detroit. I mean I didn't want
to come up here, and I wanted to go on
home because I was tired of the traveler. And uh
(07:00):
there was a snowstorm here uh and in Detroit and
they had no more flights going to uh uh to
uh Green Bay, so the package sent a private plane.
And when we left, I was impressed with the whole
organization because they gave me what they had. You know,
it was it wasn't it wasn't elaborate, it wasn't enormous.
That just gave me what they had. And uh So
(07:21):
I was flying back and I told uh my agent,
I said, man, I said, uh, I sounded the package
that shocked the world. And I said, no, I ain't
know what ever sound the back So you know, really,
uh so that went through your mind? They went through
my mind? And uh really I thought I was going
to San Francisco and uh and I remember really praying
about it, and I thought, God, it actually spoke to
(07:41):
me about going to San Francisco. So I was excited
about it. When Washington came in with a low office,
I was like, we're going to Frisco and uh So
I talked to my guy and they said we can't.
And I was like why. I said, well, it's rumored
that you get cut after two years because the salary cap.
And I talked to a running a lot in a
few other guys, and they were to me about, you know,
the situation, some of the situations, and I was extremely confused.
(08:05):
So I went downstairs and I started praying and and
I mean I was crying because I wanted to make
the right decision because I already made it, uh public
that I wanted to go one what guy wanted me
to go into where there was an inner city and
green Baker, Yeah, the green Baker fielding because green Bay
is not a big city, don't have a lot of
major problems in the inner city, and don't really has
(08:25):
a small inner city. And uh so, while I was
down at praying, uh you know, Green Bay gave me
the best offer. I was down at praying. God asked
me something and it wasn't like he said, Reggie, it
was just in my mind. He said, uh, what are
they calling green Bay? Now? I said, what they calling
him to San Francisco? The east because of the offense.
Said well, what are they called offense? I said, the
West Coast offense. He said, what did the head coach,
(08:48):
the officer, the coordinator, the defense avecordinator come from. He said,
what I said, they all came from San Francisco. He said,
that's right, I want you to go to Green Bay.
And I was like, wait, wait, wait a minute. Now,
why didn't you just tell me? And he said, because
I had to get you on your knees. I had
to get you crime to make the right decision. I
had to get you before me. And why as I
knew that, I felt so comfortable about the decision I made,
(09:08):
And it didn't have all to do with the money.
It just had to do what I knew that. That's
what God has said. Look, this story wasn't God or
the money that led him to Green Bay has always
been greeted with a degree of skepticism from fans and
media alike. Bottom line. In April of nine, White signed
a four year, seventeen million dollar contract at that time,
(09:31):
making him the highest paid defensive player in NFL history.
The Packers won a bidding war with Washington and San Francisco,
and it changed the perception of Green Bay as a
place where players would want to go. But there's a
much bigger issue going on here than just did God
guide White to Green Bay. Reggie White had brought a
(09:51):
class action lawsuit that was settled in February of which
essentially began the salary cap free agent in the National
Football League, changing the landscape of player movement forever. When
we come back, Reggie and Steve talked about winning the
Super Bowl and whether or not that finally satisfied the
(10:12):
future Hall of Famer. Stay tuned, welcome back. Remember those
great NFC teams in the nine nineties, all those terrific
rivalry games. It seemed that the Packers were always knocking
on the door. In Reggie White's first three seasons in
Green Bay, they lost to Dallas in the playoffs, either
(10:36):
in the NFC Championship Game or the divisional round. It
seemed that Dallas always had their number in head coach
Mike Holmgren and the Packers seemed poised to take that
next step, but they suffered some midseason adversity. But it
was that adversity that Reggie White points to as one
of the keys to getting over the championship hump. Right now,
(10:57):
we're in Green Bay. Was there a game last year
where during the regular season that you thought we're gonna
go all the way? The team is finally at the
level where I thought it could be. Well, I think
really in the truck game when we were pretty much
lost all our receivers, and the seed of resilience is
something you know, we were Mike and some of the
(11:18):
other guys would have started challenging guys who were going
to finally be giving an opportunity, and a lot of
the young guys stepped up, and uh, you know, and
I knew doing that process. Hey man, if these guys can,
we can hold on for a couple more weeks. You know,
we get a lot of guys back that we had injured,
and once they came back, I knew them. Man, you know,
we keep doing the things we're doing. Nobody to compete us. Now.
(11:40):
Before the NFC Championship game, did Mike pull you aside
and just talk to you personally before that that game
before you played the Panthers, Uh, and say anything to
you and challenge you specifically before that game. Well, he
pretty much told me that, uh, if it was gonna win,
it was in many respects, it was gonna be up
to me that you know, I had to go out
(12:02):
and do the things that I'm I'm good at doing
in order to inspire the other guys. And uh, of
course that time to Carolina when we played them, they
did a lot to make sure I didn't make any
place and uh, you know, but he pretty much put
a challenge to him. And I think that the challenge
pretty much came about when the Super Bowl came and uh,
(12:22):
you know, and I I mean, it wasn't it was
an exciting opportunity, but it was. It was. It was
exciting to the point where, you know, Mike Steele felt
confident in me that if I could go out and
do the things I needed to do, that it can
it can really filter throughout the whole team that when
a super A lot of fans don't realize this, but
you see after the Super Bowl, you don't see the
films of that game that season is over. If you
(12:44):
had seen them films of the Super Bowl, how would
you critique your performance? Well, in the first half, I
think they put a good game plan together because we
expected them to run a lot and they play accidents
to death. So because of that, I mean one thing,
it was hot in the dome, and that smoke was
killing us, you know, from all the activities and uh
you know. So it was like, to be honest with you,
(13:05):
when we stepped out there, and when we got through
the warm ups and stuff and all that smokers in there,
You're like, Okay, my dreaming. You know, you think you're dreaming.
I thought I was dreaming for a minute, because really
I couldn't leave it. I finally made it to a
championship game and then have all the smoke, you know,
when you have dreams, you see all this missed and stuff,
and uh, you know, and and I felt real sluggish.
(13:25):
And I remember going to the sideline really uh after
they running touchdown the third quarter, and uh, I told you,
Gene Robinson, I said, man, my legs are not doing nothing.
I feel like I'm running their mother something. And Eugene quoted,
I was there for the thirty one to them and
says that they wait upon the Lord, she'll monther with
the wings of eagles. They should run and not get tired,
and you're walking not get weary. In the next series,
(13:47):
I come out and get two straight sacks, So you know,
I mean, I felt that my strength was renewed, and
Eugene played a great part in that. Uh. But it
was exciting to finally be there again. Uh as there
for the thirty one. They didn't mind up with winds
of eagles. Uh. Uh, they didn't wait on the lordship
or knew their strength. They should mone with winds of eagles.
(14:09):
They should run and not get tired. Uh, we're in
and they should walk and not get tired. Now another
shot that we have that I wanted your We have
a shot of you at the end of the Super
Bowl with holding up that trophy running around on the field.
What was going through your mind at that? But the
reason I did think it was first to finally to
(14:29):
finally win the championship. I've never won a championship on
any level. To follow win one and uh, and not
just to finow and win one, I was. I was
excited about that, but I wanted to run around that
field with the trophy, to let the Packer fan know that, hey,
it has been a long time for you and you
deserve this just as much as we do. I don't
think that they're fans in the country to support their
(14:51):
team as much as the Green Bay Packer fans, and
they're the best in the world. And uh, I wanted
to hold that up, not only for you know, us
have an opportunity to win and me finally been on
the team to win one, but to let them know, hey,
you guys are the original champions. Now we're bringing this
back to you and you deserve it just as much
as we do. When you look back at your career,
(15:12):
if we were going to go through the NFL Films
library and somebody told you, Reggie, you gotta pick out
one play and this is gonna be I'll make it
easier for you. One play or one game that this
is the concise resume of Reggie White's career. Could you
pick up one play or one game that we put
in a space capsule and send up there for the
(15:33):
next millennium. One play. Uh, there's a few players I
can pick out, Okay, but I guess one player is
you know, a different allotments. Dream is always touched out
against the Redskins. Right, Okay, okay, we got that one.
Let's have another one. Let me see I think you
(15:54):
know the plays that you know, like really looking at
us as you know, been a power player. Uh one.
To me, the most awesome move that there is is
a club move. I mean that's when you well, that
was on my first sact. That's what I did that.
Max Lane is a club him and went inside. So
what's the difference between a club and a head slap?
Though slappers and the hand slappers in the head club?
(16:19):
How do you It's almost like a hiptops. It's you know,
you get your arms up. You either get your hand
up on an armpit up a guy and slinging. I
mean that's literally thrown. And to be honest with you,
how A Long is the first guy I ever seen
do that? And it's the most awesome move I've ever seen.
What it is is that here's the when I do it,
I run up to field and I'm trying to let
the guy see it, and once he gets close to me,
(16:41):
you get your arm and you're throwing. You know, it's
it's you don't been your arm. You pretty much keep
your arm straight and you're throw him to the outside
and you take the inside move. Now that's let's say
that that sack would be one of the players that
you'd want to put away forever in this time. How
about a game a game uh, since I've been with
(17:04):
Green Bay. Probably the game that that I can remember
that was on the line when we played Denver and
I had two sacks that did of the game just
say the game uh in Philadelphia probably you know, I
think the Monday night game we played against uh the
Giants and when Randall uh get the tackle and he
(17:29):
steps back and that was that was probably one of
my my biggest games during that time. And uh, you know,
that's a game to really stick out and go. That
was the first Monday night game that I played, so
that that pretty much sticks out of my mind. Now
when when when you watch you play and you hear
the broadcasters talk, it just seems everything just seems so
easy for you. That Reggie is fast and he's powerfully.
(17:50):
So what's the most difficult thing for you to do
on a football field? What's the one area that maybe
that that you don't think you're that good at that
you still want to improve or or an area that's
really tough for you. Well, you know, I think as
as you get older, I mean there's always stuff that
you find that, uh, that that you need to improve on.
And you know, the thing that I always do is
(18:12):
that I'm more critical on myself than anybody. So you know,
we can go out and play and I can do
We're gonna run fifty plays and I can do fur
the great things. But I'm concentrating on the ten bad
things that I did and trying to improve on those. So, uh,
the thing that I know is that I realized that
the older you get, the hall you have to work.
If you want to keep up with this game, you
have to work harder than your opponent. And uh, the
(18:35):
thing is, the game has changed so much. People don't realize.
You know. People say, with Reggie White slowing down, he's
not like he used to be. He don't do the
things he used to do. Well, there are reasons from that.
Now you let the office allownment sit back behind the
send it, so you're taking inches away from the defensive
a linement. You're letting the quarterback roll out and throw
the ball away when he wants to so that takes
away from your game. So you have to try to
(18:57):
get smart and figure out, Okay, what can I do
to adapt to this, you know? And uh so you know,
to me, I have to keep working and I have
to think that, you know, I can have a better
year than I had last year. And I don't look
at it really there have been a weakness in my game.
The things that I look at is that, Okay, I
(19:20):
didn't I messed up on this place. That means I
got to concentrate more on what I need to do
to make sure I'm better on that that play. And
uh coming into the season, you know, for a defensive
linement officeive linement, we don't have one another work again,
so you know, you get scared because you may feel like, I, man,
I can lose something if I'm not careful. And uh so,
once you get back into the season, you have to
(19:41):
start back adapting again. And I think that the thing
that has given me an edge is that I know
that when I come to training camp, I'm in better
shape than anybody and that that really keeps me, keeps
me over the top. After all that you've achieved on
the on the football field, Reggie do you finally feel
fulfilled or do you have any other goal? I thought
I would be fulfilled, Uh the super Bowl, but monster
(20:06):
super Bowl is over. I realised something. My career is
not over. And I remember what I told the players
coming into uh the season last year. Don't celebrate your career.
Don't celebrate a great game, don't celebrate being All Pro
one or two years. Don't celebrate none of that until
your career is over. Then you can look back on
it and you can reflect on it. Then you can celebrate.
(20:28):
And uh, the thing I realized. I realized, hey man,
this is what I told a got my career is
not over. It's great to be a champion. Finally, they
and my career is not over. And when my career
is over, then I can look back on it and
I can I can celebrate then, but not now. What's
interesting to me about this conversation and so many others
like it, are two themes that seem common amongst almost
(20:51):
all great players. They always obsessed about the plays they
didn't make, rather than celebrate the ones they did. That
mentality the loss hurt more than the winds feel good,
has driven many a player or coach out of the
game note parcels Comma Bill. But Reggie channeled that inner
dialogue as a path to constant improvement. In fact, I
(21:14):
always marveled at this key attribute of Reginald Howard White.
He was always seeking to learn. When we come back,
Reggie and Steve get into some of those life lessons,
how Reggie gained toughness as a child, and what was
really important to him off the field, helping those in need.
(21:36):
Welcome back to Tails from the Vault. Reggie White and
Brett Farve, on the surface couldn't be any more different. Sure,
they were both from the South, but in Reggie was
thirty two years old, the venerable Minister of Defense and
Farve was only twenty four and undoubtedly in his carefree
(21:57):
phase in Green Bay. Now, the bond they had his
teammates was undeniable. They were perfect complementary pieces leaders on
offense and defense. But when they initially met in they
were on opposing teams. I want to go back to
the Eagles again. When you were playing with Eagles, did
you ever played against Brett? Yes? What do you remember
(22:18):
about about that? I remember we played them, and I
mean they we came to Milwaukee and played them, and uh,
they were moving the ball on us. I mean they
were running the ball up and down the field, and
it kind of we were shocked, to be honest with you.
And uh, I remember coming around a corner hitting Bread
and when he hit the ground, I knew I had
separated the shoulder. And uh, he went to the sideline
(22:39):
and I told the guys said he threw and uh,
next time I know, he come running back out, you know,
his shoulder and uh and and beat us. And uh.
I remember, hey, man, this guy's gonna be good because
he's got a tough mental attitude. And uh, you know,
I was just I was extremely impressed with what he did.
And I found out later that he had actually went
to the sideline to Mike that he had separated his
(23:01):
shoulder and he was asking Mike to only let him
throw the ball to his right side because he couldn't
throw it to his left because his shoulders. So uh,
I thought of my mom, Man, I would let to
play with a guy like that. Okay, this is an
example of what's so interesting when you look back on
an interview from twenty years ago with new information in perspective.
(23:21):
I believe this eerie link between five and White has
really been overlooked. So Reggie separated Brett's shoulder five took
Viking in to ease that pain, but when he injured
his ankle a few weeks later, Farve became fully hooked.
In fact, it wasn't until doctors treated farv who had
had a seizure, that they discovered his addiction. And it
(23:45):
wasn't until that far finally sought treatment, spending seventy five
days as an inpatient in the Meninger Clinic in Topeka, Kansas.
For a man like Reggie White, who was by nature
a helper and a healer, he his role in injuring
five was about to come full circle when Brett was
(24:05):
going through all of the when he came out of
the detox center and everything, did you say anything to
him about how much that was support? Or did you
talk to Brett during the season? Uh was what what
was your relationship like during with BREA A great relationship
and you know we talked, uh before he went in.
When the day he made the announcement, Uh, you know,
I called and we ran each other down and we talked,
(24:27):
and uh, you know, he said that he wanted to
really what the problem he had. And uh, the day
I admired about him so so much is that he
knows how to take adversity and and making an advantage
to himself and for himself and for the people around him.
And uh, that's what he did last year. He took
his adversity and he turned around and it motivated him,
(24:48):
uh to be great. And uh you know, I mean
he had that my person like that because some people
let it versity get to him and it ended up
taking him down here, but bred allotted to elevate him
to another level. Could you describe the one moment in
your life when you really needed the most courage, If
there was one moment in your life where you really
had to look down in yourself, look down into yourself
(25:11):
and really draw out all the courage that you had
this or one moment that stands out in your mind.
Now that's not really one moment. I mean, Uh, I
think the thing that helped me would really been in
my courage. That was my high school coach. Uh and
then Robert Pullium he Uh, he taught me what toughness
and and having courage was all about. And it helped
(25:32):
me in my spiritual life. Uh. I don't. I don't
think this guy realized how much you really helped me.
And what he used to do is he used to
he used to uh at times wrestle me and he
would get me down and he would hold me down.
My high school coach and if I laid there, he
would keep me down until I cry. And uh when
we played basketball, he would he would do things in
(25:54):
me made me cry. And I remember one time we
played basketball and this guy was six to about two eight.
He players university and uh he uh he uh elbowed
me and I wanted back and started crying, and some
of my classmate like, I was like, uh, I think
seventeen years old, that's but now he I mean, he
(26:14):
really got after me and uh but he would do
things to me to really make frustrate me. And uh,
you know, and he like when we rastled, as I mentioned,
he would get me down. We had two other coaches
that were just as big as he was, and every
time I would get over on him, they would pull
me off. So that got me frustrating. I get the
crying and tear eyed and uh so he elbowed me
real hard and I went back there and I was
(26:35):
like tired of him doing this to me, so I
never forget that. He came into back and I thought
he's gonna apologize to me. And he looked at me
in the eyes and he said, if you think that
I'm gonna stop, you can forget it. He said, until
you start fighting me back, I'm gonna keephopping your tail.
I'm like, man, So I started fighting back, and uh,
you know, and that in the last two wrastle matches
we had, I won. And when we played basketball, I
(26:58):
mean I would throw him around and uh, but that
you ever talked to him? Now? Yeah, and uh, you know,
And I didn't realize what he did until I signed here.
I mean I really did until I signed here. I like,
you know what, he taught me how to be tough,
and he taught me how to have courage, and uh
I called him up and thanked them for it, and uh,
he told me, so I'm interested. He said, you know,
I called every one of your mothers, every one of
(27:19):
your parents. Uh and as every one of your parents
could I do to uh their sons what I did
to you? He said, your mom was the only want
to say yes, Probably the only thing Reggie was known
for more than football was his spirituality. He was ordained
at age seventeen and spent the majority of his time
(27:41):
not sacking quarterbacks, helping others and preaching to those who
would listen. And speaking of listening, I remember back in
early the day after the Packers had won the NFC
Championship over Carolina. We're getting ready to head to Super
Bowl thirty one. I was doing an interview with Reggie
the net Today. He walks into our room, that larger
(28:03):
than life figure, and he looks at me and says,
in that gravelly voice, They're gonna have to listen to me. Now,
Reggie was confident he was going to win a ring,
but he was almost as exultant that he was going
to have a pulpit in front of the world's media.
This idea of taking action over preaching ideology played a
(28:23):
big role in the way Reggie and his wife Sarah
would minister in the community. Now, when you look at
your career, that's a tough question. And all the good
things that you've done with community and with your teammates
and all of can you think back on one good
deed that you might have overlooked, And now you look
back and you think I should have done that. I
(28:46):
really and you feel a little guilty about not doing this.
This one good deed, well not not really one good deed,
that that type of thing that I learned from the Delf,
you though. You know, we did a lot of street
minister Miss Sarah, and we would take the kids with us,
some of the ball players, and we did it for
two years. And uh, every time I would leave, I
felt a void. I felt like there's something I didn't accomplish,
(29:07):
something someone was missing, and I felt that God had
called us into these communities to really speak a word
to the people in the communities. And uh, every time
I left, I was like, Okay, we preach, but there's
something missing. And when I got up here, God made
me realize what was missing. You know, we went in,
we preach, We told the people what they needed. We
were trying to encourage the people to change their life
(29:27):
for Christ's sake. And the thing that God showed me
is that we met no needs. You know, we didn't
help the drug dealing get off drugs. We didn't help
the uh, the drug addict get off drugs. We didn't
help the game banking stop banging. We didn't have the
process to to stop setting themselves. We wouldn't meet no
one's needs. And the thing in these communities that you
have to realize is the reason that people responding to
(29:48):
crime because crime is paying them, uh, and they have
no other alternative but to get involved with that. I
talked to a lot of young game members and every
one of them to tell you the reason I'm doing
what I'm doing because we have nothing to do. And
I think that that that revolution and my thinking to
the point where I realized that the resources that I have,
I have to use them to try to create opportunities
(30:08):
for other people. And uh, you know, just realizing that,
I mean it made me feel bad and in some
respects it made me feel guilty, but I had to
be I had to be brought to a point in
my life where I realized, Okay, this is what needs
to be done. You know, people getting tired of being
priest to They getting tired of being taught that they
need to see some action. They need some people that
would really stand up and fight for them and care
(30:29):
for them and create opportunities for them. If you could
go back to school and take one subject that you didn't,
what would it be uh knowing what you know now,
I probably would have uh uh you know I was
interested in history, but I probably would have gotten uh
taken African American history. Uh. And the reason I would
(30:52):
have a lot of people. And I've had the reporters
asking the question, why don't black athletes go back and
help the people? And as a simple answer to that question,
when your your heritage and your history has been stripped
from you, you don't appreciate yourself. Let a long appreciate
your neighbor. And uh. When you look at the Jewish community,
they they strictly teach their history and their heritage. They
(31:13):
teach about the Holocaust uh school. And one day I
knowed about Jews. Uh. Jews uh in manute respect, be careful,
distrust each other more more than anybody. But the thing
that I respect about him, even though that they distrust
each other and manage respects. When something comes together for
the community, they come together. They try to benefit the community.
(31:36):
And you know, you look at that and you say, hey,
you know, you don't have to like each other, but
you know, when it comes to help and one another,
you know, let's let's come together and help one another.
And I think that that's the thing that I've seen
our community fell in because our history and our heritage
hadn't been taught to us. Uh when we go to
public schools, we're not taught black history. You know. I
(31:56):
had a young kid tell my pastor one time, he's
a straight a student, sixty years old, quit school. My
pastor aske him, why did you quit school? He said, well,
since I was six, I've been in school. He said,
I've never saw a black face, and any of the
history books, uh that I've read that contributed to anything.
And he said, I know that my people invented something,
they did something to contribute to America. And uh so
(32:19):
when that's the case, you have a lot of our
kids it's just not interested in the American education system. Now,
when you when you go out and you talk to
kids like that Reggie and they look at you, what
do you want them to feel when they see Reggie White.
I want them to know that I'm real. I wanted
to feel God's presence. I want them to feel like,
hey man, this guy don't think he's more important than
(32:41):
I am, you know. I mean, I've talked to kids,
particularly Milwaukee, to the young game Bangers, and we sit
down and we talked. They talked about me, I talked
about them, you know, we joke around. I want them
to be able to touch me and say, hey man,
this guy, this guy, I don't think he better than
I am. You know, he he puts himself on the
same level that I am. Uh. At times, I have
(33:02):
a friend who brings some of the kids up to
spend the night uh with us and just hang out
with my kids, because I want my kids to see
that side too, so they want to grow up to
think that they're better than anybody else. I want them
to see what other people go through and what other
people experience, and uh for them to appreciate what they
got to try to use what they have to benefit
other people's lives. So, you know, I just want people
(33:23):
to feel, hey man, this guy is real. He's not
a phony. You know, he don't think he's better than
nobody else. He's trying to help me. So if he's
gonna try to help me, then I need to try
to help myself. Do you have any role models when
you were growing up? Did you have a role model? Uh? Well,
my high school coach, UH was my male He was
my role model. Uh. And professional sports. It was guys
like Dr J Bobby Jones. I mean, baseball is han't Karen,
(33:45):
you know. Uh? But Dot he just had so much class, man,
And I was like, you know, that's that's how I
wanna be. You know, I want to, I wanna I
want to. I want to have class just like that man.
How about the Muhammad Ali? Oh, he was everybody's hero
and he still limitate. Yeah, I'm the greatest of all time.
People know, I'm pretty. I can still fighting. Sam Oh,
I'm not old. Okay, we got it. Two years after
(34:10):
Steve's lambeau Field interview, Reggie retired from the Packers. He
returned for one season with the Panthers into thousand, but
then White's life took a turn as he set out
on a quest to find his purpose. He had an
idea for a religious themed amusement park, but that never
came to fruition, and after countless hours preaching and millions
(34:32):
of dollars spent supporting the church during his fifteen year
playing career, after his retirement, he began to seriously question
the word he had been spreading. He stopped preaching and
never set foot in a church again. Memory told you
he was constantly learning. White spent endless hours studying Hebrew
(34:54):
to be able to translate the Original Old Testament himself.
He had a Hebrew teacher and even traveled to Israel.
I asked Sarah one day what religion Reggie considered himself,
and she said he was a seeker of the truth.
I remember when my phone rang early in the morning
December two four with the news that Reggie White had died.
(35:17):
He had passed away in North Carolina at the age
of forty three. Died in his sleep. One of the
reasons he suffered from sleep apnea. In two thousand and six,
he was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
His wife Sarah delivered an incredible induction speech, and as
someone who was in attendance, let me tell you it
was one of the most difficult days I can remember.
(35:41):
I know how magnified that was for Sarah and their children,
Jeremy and Jacolia. Reggie White was a great football player,
but he was also someone I considered a friend. I've
enjoyed listening to him talk to Steve, and I certainly
hope you did as well. Next week, we finally switched
back to offense when I dig out Steve's interview with
(36:01):
Dan Marino that took place just months after the Hall
of Fame quarterback retired from the Dolphins. I hope they'll
join us. Thanks for listening. I'm Andrea Kramer.
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