Calvin Johnson: I Did It My Way

Megatron doesn’t do many interviews but he took time to join Steve and Jim to talk about his decision to retire after nine seasons (29:45), why he’s confident he’ll be a first-ballot Hall of Famer (50:02) and what he blames for missing out on the first 2,000-yard season ever by a receiver (26:56). Johnson also talks about his cannabis partnership with Harvard (18:58) and what it would take for him and the Lions to make amends (33:33). Plus, Steve and Jim shout out fellow Howard University grad Gus Johnson and his return to campus for the first time as a broadcaster to do the HU vs Notre Dame basketball game Monday (54:54).

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Coming up next on Huddling Flow. And that's why I
came back for the ninth season, knowing from the very
beginning that was going to be my last. But even
during that season, I was there's games where I was
just like, it's never before that that that lad that
final season where I was like out there a pre games, stretching,
getting warmed up, like I shouldn't be out here. I'm

(00:23):
not feeling it, like I am not feeling it. And
there's a couple of games like that night, but in
all games, there's a couple of games like that where
it's just couldn't get the body, just the feeling right
like it was like it usually does before the game,
and it was just I just just it's it's it's
not demoralizing, but it's just you know that, you know
what I told myself at the very beginning was that
when I can't put that same product out there, I'm done.

(00:47):
That's next on Huddling Flow. Alright, alright, alright, Welcome to
the latest edition of the Huddle and Flow Podcast, presented

(01:11):
by Into It, the probably makers of Turbo Tax, QuickBooks
and Mint. I am Steve White. I'm here with my
guy Jim Trotter and our producer Thomas Warren on the
ones and twos. Gentlemen, we've got that great new sponsorship
from into It here to go along for the ride,
and man do we have plenty of things on our
mind today, Jim. We're coming here after after divisional round weekend.

(01:35):
We got a lot of coaching turnover, general manager turnover,
and we've got special guests coming on the show today.
We got the Megatron. Calvin Johnson didn't say much, doesn't
do many interviews, but like Notorious Big, he's got a
story to tell because he serves it up. You will
not want to miss. Calvin Johnson is coming up in
just a few minutes. Yeah, Steve, he was. He was

(02:00):
straightforward and frank and the things he had to say,
you know, And that's the one thing I appreciate, appreciate
about any guests is that you ask him a question,
you get a straight answer, and we got that from Calvin.
So I think he's a fascinating figure for so many reasons.
You know, walking away from the game when he did
at the top of his profession. Um, you know, the
battle he had with the organization after leaving his candidacy

(02:23):
for the Hall of Fame all those sorts of things. So, um,
this was one interview I was definitely looking forward to
good And one of the reason why we had him
on at this time is because you one of the
forty eight Hall of Fame selectors will be actually doing
the virtual voting um this week for the class of one,
of course, Colvin Johnson, one of the first ballot Hall

(02:44):
of Fame finalist and those will be announced the day
before Super Bowl fifty five at NFL Honors, So we'll
have to shit and wait. But Jim, um, interesting. So
now we have the Packers versus the Buccaneers in Green
Bay next week, and the Bills against the Kansas City Chiefs,
great quarterbacks, a lot of intrigue. We can finesse all

(03:04):
this a little bit later on. We come back next
week about Patrick Mahomes status and everything. But I think,
but we want to talk about with all this coaching
turnover conversation um that ye know, I wish I wish
the people could really see us because a whole lot
of lips have been moving and a whole lot of
stuff really hasn't come out. Okay, it does not look
like a black coach is gonna get hired. Maybe Eric B.

(03:26):
Enemy who's still coaching with the Chiefs, gets an opportunity.
But right now, Philadelphia and Houston looked like the only
opportunities and we're just not sure anything is gonna happen there.
Um the only diverse higher it looks like it's gonna
be Robert Sala who got the Jets job. So we
know the NFL is and push is. We are not
hanging this on the NFL. We cannot hanging on three.

(03:48):
But these owners, Jim, we've been talking about it and
like I said, the everything that they've said and done
has been as hollow as an easter bunny. Yeah, I'm
I'm worn out from a Steve. I think you can
tell by my boys something. Austin. Um, Look, we are
not going to have potentially one black hired as a

(04:10):
head coach amongst seven openings this year, despite all of
the focus on it, and unlike you, you know, I
believe the enemy is gonna get shut out. I believe it.
If one black coach is going to be hired this year,
I believe it will be Leslie Fraser in Houston. UM.
For a number of reasons, but the fact that Eric B.
Enemy could be shut out again. And and I'm not saying,

(04:32):
I want to be clear on this, I am not
saying that Eric B. Enemy is going to be a
great head coach. You have no way of knowing until
someone gets in that that position. What I am saying
is that based on his service, he has earned the
opportunity to have a shot to be a head coach,
and then he can succeed or fail based on the merits.

(04:53):
But the fact that he can't even get that opportunity,
it's truly disturbing to me. And I'm not here to
dump on anyone else who was hired or whatnot. Every
owner has to make his own decision. Um some of
these guys may wind up being wildly successful as head coaches.
But again, the fact that you can tell me now
that there were seven openings this year head coach openings,

(05:16):
and to this point, of the first five that have
been filled, not one person, not one Black, among those five.
It's disappointing. And not just to me or you, Steve.
It's the coaches who are calling us correct. You know,
That's where my frustration comes from. When you hear in
their voices how they feel like that this playing field

(05:37):
isn't level and they have no real opportunity no matter
what they do. And I truly don't have an answer
for him at this point. I really don't. Well, Jim,
here's here, here's gonna be the biggest example of how
this whole process is some bully. Next week in the
Conference Championships, we are going to have the Tampa Bay
Buccaneers and buying leverage and Todd Bowls offensive and defensive

(05:59):
coordination with the book Caneers um as well as your
special teams coordinator Keith Alexander, another black man. Okay, then
you have the Green Bay Packers, no coordinators of color
in the a f C. Leslie Fraser, the Bill's defensive coordinator,
Eric b Enemy, the Chief's offensive coordinator. We can talk
about all of that all we want. Is it really

(06:19):
gonna make make a damn difference? Is it gonna mean
anything to these owners who again have shown us nothing
but to be as hollow as a chocolate easter bunny.
And let's let's be real as a white chocolate easter bunny.
Because nobody's really putting anything. Why oh yeah, this guy interviewed,
well this and that because not Eric bi Ennemy Jim

(06:40):
if he does not get an offer, I'm with you,
I don't I don't think he's gonna get a job.
And I don't know if Houston comes open, if he's
gonna want to take it right. But if it's a
situation now where people get like, dang, he's had so
many interviews, there must be something going on with him
as to why he's not getting hired, because we know
that excuse happens to a lot of people like man,
A lot of people talk to him. Why isn't he
getting hired? That's gonna spread through the grape vine and

(07:01):
Eric may never get a chance, and that's it's just
it's just so unfortunate. Um Again, people can get to
hire who they want to hire. But if you're talking
about merit, whether it's Eric Benny, whether it's Leslie Fraser,
whether it's Jim called, will we see exactly what's happening here?
Now we are going to see at least two black
general managers could hire. Brad Holmes, who is the director

(07:24):
of college scouting for the Rams, is going to be
in Detroit, who was expected name Saints assistant coach Dan
Campbell is their HC. And Terry Fontineau from the Saints.
He's done a great job. Is gonna be the general
manager for the Atlanta Falcons with Arthur Smith. Um, what's
interesting about a lot of these coaching GM hires, Jim,
It's like the GM isn't gonna really get to pick
the coach like this, This interview process the coaches was

(07:47):
going on simultaneously. Sometimes the coaches got hired before the GM. Look,
see here's what really bothers me and said and I
said this, Um, each of the last two years, my
fear was always that You'll remember when Sean McVeigh got hired,
and all all of us was every team is looking
for the next Sean McVeigh, the next young offensive you know,

(08:11):
wonder kind YadA YadA, yana. And there weren't many minorities
on that side of the ball, on the offensive side
in terms of coordinators and whatnot. And I said at
the time, here's my fear. Blacks are now going to
rush over to the offensive side of the ball to
try and get in that quote unquote pop pipeline and
then the target was going to be moved. And we're
seeing that come to fruition this year because what am

(08:33):
I hearing from some owners they're looking for the young,
wonder kind coach now who doesn't matter now offensive defense,
just a guy that they think can be special as
a coach. And so now, in addition to having you
deal with the race issue, the age issue is starting
to come into play because my my feeling is now

(08:54):
a lot of guys who have paid their dues, who
have done it the right way, who have served their time,
aren't going to get opportunities because clubs are looking for
that next young guy who they say, hey, we'd rather
get him a year earlier, two years early. That way
we don't have to compete with other clubs for him.
It's the same thing we heard in Cincinnati was Zach Taylor,

(09:15):
and to some degree it's the same thing we're hearing
now with Brandon Staley. Here's the other thing that bothers
me right now. And and and I guess I'm gonna
air some dirty laundry house laundry here that that you know,
we try not to talk about publicly because we have
enough people beating up a minority coaches. But at this
point now we have four minority head coaches in the NFL.

(09:37):
Brian Flores, Ron Rivera, Mike Tomlin, and Robert sale And
as I look at their staffs right now, their offensive
defensive coordinators, you know how many people of color I
see in those positions? Tell a, Jim, tell it zero. Zero.
Now that's not to say that those who have openings
cannot fill them with a diverse candidate, but for now

(10:01):
there are zero. And it's starting to get under my
skin that you and I and others can be out
here fighting for representation of diverse candidates, and yet when
we diverse candidates get in a position to do something
about it, we don't. That bothers me. It bothers me
a lot, because I can't go banging on owners or
anyone else if we're not gonna hold ourselves to the

(10:23):
same standard. And we're not doing that. So I say
to Mike Tomlin, I say to Ron Rivera, I say
to Brian Flores, and I say to Robert Sala, it's
time for us to step up. And if we keep
preaching as as these head coaches did when they were coordinators,
that they were qualified to be head coaches, well, then
damn it. These diverse candidates out here now are qualified

(10:45):
to be coordinators. So why aren't they getting that opportunity?
That's right. We got o C openings in Pittsburgh and
in Miami. Hey, there's plenty of good I mean, Anthony Lynn,
Pep Hamilton's, there's all maybe Eric BNT, I mean, who knows.
I mean, somebody tell me. I'm still waiting on somebody
to tell me what Zach Taylor did that Pep Hamilton's

(11:09):
has not done. Somebody tell me that that's it. That's on. Now,
come on, real about all this. But jem look, look
look at look at this. All it takes, like the
goalposts continue to Eric doesn't call it plays blah blah blah.
All it takes is one phone call for Bill Belichick
to recommend Joe Judge in the giant tire, and all

(11:30):
of a sudden, we went from wanting the young offensive
mastermind to wanting the CEO type. Correct, you both wear khaki,
so you have something in common. I mean, take that
stuff someplace. Okay, it's just it's old. It's old. It's
exhausting and it is and I'm gonna use the word
that's not I realized doesn't belong here. It's unfair because

(11:54):
I understand that the NFL is not a fair business.
No one ever said it was fair. But it's just
raw wrong. It's wrong that these men don't have the
same opportunities as others. They're not looking for anything special,
they're just looking for the same opportunities that men who
don't look like them have. Yep, and look, Jim, I

(12:14):
know we're tired, we're angry, but it is what it is.
And again it and people it's pissed as Jim and
I are about this stuff. You should hear these coaches
who call us. You should hear these former coaches and
players who call us, and these personnel people are like, well,
you know, Jim, they ain't even getting the mule let
alone the forty acres, no question. But here's the other thing.

(12:39):
When we talk about moving the target and whatnot and
obstacles being put in front of us, so here's the
next thing that's coming. Be prepared for this now. So
a guy like Pep Hamilton's who has been an offensive
coordinator in this league, who Andrew Luck had his best
career season under, who Justin Herbert just had a record
setting rookie season under all of those things. A guy

(13:02):
who has been a head coach in the XFL head
coaching GM a guy who was a Stanford with Jim
Harball and in Michigan with Jim Harball, called plays there
and whatnot. So now when teams interview him, it's like, oh,
you're really well qualified. We're afraid if we bring you in,
you're gonna get head coaching opportunities in a year and

(13:24):
then we're gonna lose you and have to replace you.
So now you're being penalized for being qualified. I'm like
this this when I say the game is rigged. That's
why I say the game is because no matter what
you do, there is always something else out there that says,
you know what, I gotta use this against you. Give

(13:45):
me a break. It's rigged. Andy Reid can churn him,
he can kick him out. Matt Negg, John Harball, you know,
Frank Reich, all these. But note when it comes to
Eric Note, it's uh, look man, we are gonna we
are gonna let up. We're gonna let up. And Jim,
I'm sure our network is gonna have us on air

(14:05):
this we can talk about how unfair it is at
these black coaches. I mean, let's go ahead and telegraph
that past two Okay, let's let's put it out there
for the safety to jump, because that's gonna happen. And frankly,
book the owners. Man, book the owner. We don't make
the decisions. Book the owner asked them. Anyway, anyway, we're
gonna we're gonna bring in And again, the timing of

(14:27):
this interview, it may seem ODDI enough, off of the
conference championships coming up, the coaching hires, but we had
an opportunity to speak to someone who really doesn't speak much,
and that is Calvin Johnson, who was a first ballot
Hall of Fame finalist. He gave us plenty of his
time and so Jim, right now, let's bring in Megatron.

(14:56):
All right, Jim, listen one we've been looking forward to
for a long time. We are now joined by Calvin Johnson,
a k a. Megatron. Calvin. Welcome to the Hull and
Flow Podcast. Gentlemen, thanks for having me. Great to be here,
many And I gotta ask you this, man, do you
do you ever just say like, uh, my name is
Tron Megatron. My friends called me Megatron. Me might slap

(15:22):
me this on my head if I said, there, who
are you? I always wonder though, if you like that
nickname because players getting nicknames put on them. Was there
something else you would have preferred or did you just
decide this is cool? You know in college they called
me like Spider Man and stuff like that, and you know,
I guess just grabbing stuff. But Megatron worst. Like I said,

(15:44):
at first, it's the bad guy. And I'm like, I'm
not the bad guy. But like I said, I could
be the bad guy. I could be the bad guy
to the defense. I could do that all day. And
you were, and you were without question, you were so Calvin. Look,
we we know you don't do a lot publicly in
terms of interviews and that sort of thing. What have
you been up to? Yeah? Man, ever since you know,
I retired to put my business hat on um started

(16:07):
in real estate. I had, I got my uh, I
guess I got my feet went a little bit in
real estate while I was playing. You know, I was
renting out a property that I used to stay out
here in Michigan. So, you know, seeing my granddad, you know,
he had a little portfolio, I was like, Okay, let
me just build up a little portfolio of real estate
properties that I'm right now build some passive income. Unfortunately,
got um, some properties that were located in quote unquote

(16:27):
the green zone where you can actually cultivate uh cannabis,
do retail or have just some kind of uh business
related around cannabis. And uh we we thought myself under
my partner, my partner, Rob of Salms, he played with
me in Detroit for a handful of years. Uh, you know,
we thought, hey, we got a passion behind this. You know,

(16:48):
it helped us while we played. You know, we we
really have a passion because of the inflex this whole
a holistic way of healing. You know, we could either
you know, higher out a team to come work on
our property, you know, just be the landlord, or we
could build a team. And we felt like you know us,
you know, being in a team sport a whole our
whole life that we have, we had to do what
to know how to build a great team. And that's

(17:09):
what we proceeded to do. And you know, we've been
operating there for a year. A year after a year
last January, last December, so years some change now. But
but in this field, I think it's interesting because a
lot of athletes and we're seeing Al Harrington and Mike
Tyshan and a lot of people get into this industry.
What else did you you have to learn? Because because

(17:30):
people hear about cannabis industry, so they just think about, Okay,
we're gonna go roll up some guns you and feel
better about ourselves. But it seems like it is an
enterprise now. I mean, what did you have to go
through and how much do you think your celebrity so
to speak, helped you get things along. I definitely wanted
to present believe that our celebrity um being a local
celebrity and mission gonna help open up some doors as

(17:52):
far as when you walk into dispensaries or you're meeting
different people involved in the industry, and you know it's
easy for you to get into those meetings, say other
than just you know, just uh, you know Joe off
the street, you know, trying to get a meeting with
a with the with the president CEO of a of
a Candidis brand. Um, that one helped us, like they
get into the door. And obviously our platform created through

(18:14):
the NFL, obviously that helped us, you know, do some
funding and get our business open and running. But more
than anything, people gotta realize this, this is just a business.
You know, same as any other business. You know, you
gotta have a great culture. Um, you gotta have a
great foundation and um instead of court values if you're
going to have success in dealing with the people, um,
and the people part of this business. You know, it's

(18:36):
really the people to help your business run, you know, Um,
you know as well as us learning. You know, it's
it's not and it ain't ain't shorty me easy. You know,
it's been a bumpy row, you know to get this
thing up and running. But you know we're on the
up and up, and you know it's just been success
after after success, and we view obstacles and just opportunities.
So you know, um, we're just constantly a sell. You know,

(18:58):
there are people who think guys are out, they're just
getting high to get high. But this game that you
play takes such a toll on players physically and whatnot.
How much does cannabis truly help players cope with not
only some of the physical stresses, but just the mental
stresses as well. In terms of what you go through
being an NFL player, I mean, it's so much you

(19:19):
get into. You know, we all think football it's like
everything below the shoulders, you know, how do you take
care of your body? Obviously the pain, but then obviously
there's a you know, there's a mental aspect to this
thing too, you know, and and how how do we
take care of our our our mental function? You know,
how do we take care of everything above the shoulders
as well? You know what I mean? You say it's
a nine um ten game ninety game nine mental temperacent

(19:43):
physical game, but it's not really treated that way. You know,
we don't really take care of the mental mental you know,
mental not just mental mental disability, but you know, uh,
mental impairment or concussions with those things of that sort.
You know, it's kind of it's kind of like taboo.
You know, it's kind of things that you know just
weren't weren't really you really talked about. So um, you know,

(20:03):
I think it's' it Cannabis allows, I mean, it heals
the whole valley, obviously the pain and obviously the neurological
side of it as well. And to that point, you know,
we have a partnership with Danny Farber up there in Harvard,
and that's to do uh, further research down the line
of you know, the the the abilities and the capabilities
of of the of the plan. You know, Canty, you

(20:26):
never showed up on an injury report with a concussion.
How many did you have? Man, you asked any football
player how many concussions they have? I'm they're gonna give
you accurate answer. But yeah, I mean concussions from hitting
my head on the ground after diving for balls. You know,
a lot of those things that're gonna get document. I'm
not gonna go to the sets the sidelines and say, oh,
I gotta concussion on this point. No, you know, just

(20:47):
like while I just talking about, kind of was like
we were built. You know, the way we came up
was just like brute force. You know, just forget about
the pain, don't worry about your feelings. Just go and
play and get your job done. You know, That's how
we came up. But knowing what you know, I mean
from like you're talking about the Harvard research study, you know,
seeing teammates who are kind of kind of dealing with
what about the league's recent stance to take a step

(21:09):
back from remember before, if you fail the drug chest,
you faced all these penalties. It was the the limits
for for failing a drug chest were very little and
now they've they've really relaxed a lot of the regulations
so it's not seen as something sinister or criminal anymore. Um.
I mean, that's that's that's probably a good thing, you know,

(21:29):
the way the I guess the snowball fact, that's that's
taken over to us with how states are are rolling
out legislation to approve some kind of some form of
medical uh marijuana, you know. So um, I think that
every around the nation, we're seeing the healing properties people
are actually broadcasting you know, how this is helping them,

(21:49):
you know, and and and the education piece of it
isn't there. And that's really what my company what we're
here to do, to bring the professionalism to the industry,
to educate, you know, as well as provide um for
those who, yeah, those that want to just have fun recreationally,
but those who need it. You know, Cally, I want
to get into some football with you. And I know
our audience, um knows who you are and what you did,

(22:10):
but just in case, let me give them a little background,
a little flavor before we get into it. So you
played from two thousand seven to two thousand, fifteen hundred
and thirty five games, seven hundred and thirty one catches,
eleven hundred and six or eleven thousand, six hundred nineteen yards,
NFL record with nineteen sixty four yards in two thousand,

(22:33):
twelve eighty three touchdowns, six Pro Bowls, three time First
team All Pro. Let me give you a couple other
things here. Six seasons in the top ten in yards,
four seasons in the top ten in touchdowns, five seasons
in the top ten in yards per receptions, two seasons
in the top ten and receptions, two seasons as the

(22:55):
NFL leader in receiving yards, and one season as the
NFL leader and siving touchdowns. But here's what really stands
out to me during the nine seasons that you played
during that during those nine seasons, you ranked first in
receiving yards, receiving TVs, receiving yards per game twenty five

(23:17):
plus yard receptions, one hundred plus or one hundred yard
receiving games with forty six, which is insane. It's insane.
You let them with two hundred yards receiving games you
have five, and you let everyone with multi receiving touchdown
games with seventeen. So for those who might have forgotten
just how dominant you were, now they know where the megatron.

(23:44):
How what you accomplished on that field during that time?
Oh man, that was that I didn't like you said,
you've named off like like four or five Like whoa, Okay,
I didn't never heard that all the time. You know,
it's pretty awesome, you know, just to sit back and
listen and hear you know, some of the things that
were accomplished. Man, you just think about I sit and

(24:05):
have the opportunity to reminisce with Robbed, my own teammate,
because you know, we worked together and we're able to
sit back all the time. Just thing you remember that
that that's pretty cool. What is it like to be
on that field when you cannot be stopped? I mean
I can go and read to you quote from players
who had to defend you, and and the part, the
one that's best for me is when they talk about

(24:27):
how they had to treat you like a gunn or
on a punt um coverage in front of you, just
to keep you from getting off the line. What was
it like to be on the field where you had
to think in your mind, there isn't anybody that can
match up with me. Is that how you felt? Yeah,
you know, I'll sit there and watch film every week.
And I was just like, man, I'm looking across the field.
I'm like, man, I wish I could get I wish

(24:49):
you would play five yards off of me. You know.
I wish I'll get one on one, you know, I
wish I would get some of these things. Man. But hey,
I was like, hey, man, I wish you just throw
it up to me too when they playing me like that,
so we can show the they just can't do nothing
about it. You know. We had Charles Woodson, who, uh,
just like you, is a finalist for the Pro Football
Hall of Fame first ballot finalist, and we we talked

(25:12):
about you, Tory Holt, and Reggie Wayne, the three wide
receivers who are finalists of Pro Football Hall of Fame.
He's like, you all grip, We're great. But just the
fact that you were six four, two thirty six, I
know you'd like to say to thirty five when you
were two forty. I mean, he was just like that size.

(25:34):
There was nothing you could do about it. I mean,
did you ever feel like, man, this guy's got me.
You know, they're they're pinballing me down the field whatever,
But they're just too small. Yeah, I mean, I mean
there are guys that I mean as I mean really
when I got to lead, I mean, you start to
see the large cornerback, you know. But I think with
the large cornerbacks, like, cant he move though? Can he

(25:55):
move his feet? You know? Can he get in and
out of the breaks and stuff like that? You know,
And I'll tell you to the most difficulty I had
was early in my career and when I was like
going against um, you know, al Hairs, you know Green Bay.
Now I was a rookie, but you know, you know
Roy Williams. All the receivers in Detroit they hate to
playing agains him because you know, he's aggressive, he's Nasty's

(26:15):
in your face every play for sixty five plays, you know.
And and so I got a good taste with the NFL.
Is gonna be like my first year And I'm like, Okay,
if I gotta go through this, you know, if I'm
gonna play guys like this every every year and I
gotta play him twice this season, I gotta get my
stuff together. So after that first year, I was just like, Okay,
let me, I gotta give my stuff together. I got
to come back strong. I get I gotta there be
in my face. I gott getting my boy. I gotta

(26:36):
move him out the way. So really, during my career,
I would say another person that that really I got
to play a lot that was fun to play, really competitive.
Pat Peterson man strong, fast, quick, He's like a different
kind of from the cornerback. Haven't really seen guys built
like him man like the linebacker running back. But you know,
you know ridiculous. Do you ever stop and think, I mean,

(26:58):
you had nineteen hundred and sixty four yards at one
season in twelve No receiver has ever gotten two thousand.
I mean you needed just thirty six more. How many
times you replayed that scene in the same where could
I have picked up thirty six yards? I don't. I
don't really, I don't replay it because I know I
know for a fact that I probably had, Like I
don't know how many drops I had that season, but
I know there's probably thirty five thirty yards and there

(27:21):
I could have had. I know, I know it for fact.
I know two thousands could have been had. No, it's possible.
I was just like uh man, just and in the
last game. We only not in that last game. I
think I only went for like sixty something yards some week,
you know, so I was just like, we could have
we didn't get it. It was, yeah, it was disappointed.

(27:42):
Ahead in the last game we knew were Yeah, I
wanted to get it. I mean we had already broke
the record. I guess we had one more game. But
so I was like, hey, let's go get it. But
you know I came up short. You know, Hey, here's
how nice Calvin is. He wants to blame two holding
calls and another call for the game for the gating
some catches. But he's taking the l saying he dropped

(28:05):
some balls because you know it's true. Look, I remember
when when we we get into this controverse controversy about
what is it catching? What isn't it catch? And I
think it was actually week it may have been Week
one or week two. Um. Once. Yeah, I was a
sports illustrated I was out in Chicago covering the game.

(28:26):
He went up and got it, and I'm like, that's
a touchdown, and then they took it from him. And
for me, that's where the whole controversy started, because I'm like,
that was a touchdown, right, Calvin Man, That's probably about
a three one. Counting my hand, probably three or four
touchdowns that day I got robbed up my during my career. Yeah,
that was that was one that hurt, one of the

(28:46):
most that Yeah. Yeah, well let's let's let's looks right
after that, like just nobody said anything like, yeah, that
was a touchdown. So did Dad's catch it? Did Dad's
catch it against Green Bay? Mm hm, that was a catchman.

(29:11):
I can't. I can't, honestly, I know what you're talking about.
You can visualize the very end of it right there.
I gotta see it. But if I saw it right
now when I'm watching the games, I'm like, oh, yeah,
that's that's not that's I'm always right. I should be
got to replay you know, what's the dude's name when
the referees wherever we're on. I'm like, I'm always correct.

(29:32):
I'm telling you, Okay, how much do you watch games?
How often? Whatever I get here in Detroit? Obviously the
Lions game, but um whatever, whatever whatever other game I
get I'm watching. Yeah, well, let's talk about this. Let's
let's get to the meat of this, because everyone wants
to know here from you again, why you walked away
from the game, because when you left your last season,

(29:55):
I think you set a record for most receiving yards
in a season in your final season, and then you
walked away still dominant. Um, a member of the All
Decade Team of the twenty tens. As I say, three
time All Pro First Team, six time Pro bowler and
nine seasons. What led you to walk away? Yeah, I'll

(30:15):
tell you. I'll start here. After my agh season, just
dealing with a lot of ankle lower body injuries and
all the running that I'm doing. I went home after that.
After that season, I told my dad, I tell the
story all the time. I was like, man, I don't
think I could do it anymore. Like the body is
not funny anymore, just the pain, just how you're running
all the time. I just can't do it. You know,
It's just it's taking his toll, is is? It sucked

(30:36):
all the energy you know, out of me, out of
the life, not the life, out of the game, because
those game is always going to be there, The game
is always be energies, and the game is alwas gonna
be fun. But for me, you know what he's doing
to my body, you know, I just couldn't put out
the same product I was feeling that I was putting
out for all those years before. So I sat down
on the couch. I was like, man, I don't know
if I'm gonna be able to do it again. And
he's like, well, he said there ain't said, well you

(30:59):
think you got you think you really think you can't
do one more time? And and I sat there in
a pause, and I thought about it. And as I
was thinking about it, He's like, since you're thinking about it,
you do one more time, you know. So that that's
why I came back for the ninth season, knowing from
the very beginning that was going to be my last.
But even during that season, I was there's games where
I was just like it's never before that that that
lad that final season where I was like out there

(31:21):
a pre games, stretching, getting warmed up, like I shouldn't
be out here. I'm not feeling it, like I am
not feeling it. And there's a couple of games like
that night, but in all games, there's a couple of
games like that where it's just I couldn't get the body,
just the feeling right like it was like it usually
does before the game, and it was just I just
just it's it's it's not demoralizing, but it's just you

(31:42):
know that, you know, what I told myself at the
very beginning was that when I can't put that same
product out there and done, do you regret playing that
last season? No? I mean I deal with the pain.
I'm all right right now. I deal with stuff. If
I'm like, you know, I snowboard a lot, so if
I don't really fall, but if I'm out there, like

(32:02):
I'm doing my camps for instance, and I'm doing the
drills for the kids literally like you know, next day,
next day, after the game, you wake up in the morning,
you know you you you you're pulling yourself across the
across the floor. You know. That's that's how I feel.
Like a couple of hours later, after dealing, after playing
the kids, showing the drills, I'm like, nah, people asking me,
like a year after I'm I'm playing, I'm doing these drills.

(32:23):
I'm like, dude, I can't even I'm out here at
the camp and I'm about I need a cart like
steal for the kids. I'm living around to you know. Okay,
wait real quick, hold up, are there any other six
five black snowboarders out there where you were doing your thing. Bro.
It's it's like I'm very easy to spot, you know,

(32:46):
probably out there, but like I'm out there having a
good time. I'm like, I'm getting my jumps in and
all that stuff, you know, just trying to you know,
having a good time. I love being on the mountain.
When I retired, my wife, you know, she she told me, like,
let's go skin. I'm like, man, I'm from Georgia. We
don't do that, no ice. She was like, you have fun.

(33:06):
She got my skin. I skied for a year and
a half and I started seeing all the snowboard Oh
my dad, that was cool. I always wanted to do that,
cause skateboard when I was a kid, and I took
it up, and you know, I ate it for the
first couple of days. But now I've been snowboard from
three years now, and you know, I'd like to say
I was killing me. Its coronavirus. You know, God bless
everybody who's who's had troubles and struggles with their families

(33:26):
and stuff. But you know, I haven't been out WestEd
all this year. But you know it's all good. I'm
not traveling my dad right now. I kind of go
back with Jim, was just talking about it when when
you ended it, because there's always you know, the conversation
about you and ownership, and you know the disputes going
on right there. So it's for clarity right here. Was
there any issue there? I wasn't one pent health related

(33:47):
you were tapped out. Oh no, it wasn't any issue
with ownership because I didn't let I said, I didn't
tell anybody going into the season. Only people I told
my receivers in the in my group. I was like, yeah,
because um, you know, rest in peace of Kobe. You know,
he had announced he was gonna retire that year, and
I was like, man, I'm out of here, like Kobe,
I'm about to go retire. I'm done, you know, And

(34:08):
guys alway meshed up whatever. And then at the end
of the season it's like, oh, shoot, this series all
the time. No no noticed, no, no, no, no problems
with the ownership until after the fact, you know. Yeah,
That's the thing I wonder about. I know you said
that when someone takes money back from you, it's hard
to have a relationship like that. But I wonder if

(34:31):
if during this Hall of Fame process, has it helped
it all to try and mend that fence or in
some way the two sides come together. You know, it
hasn't really been too much communication. Um, you know, I
mean we talked about it every time I go on
on on on any kind of you know, any anything public.
You know, I asked the question. It's simple, you know.

(34:53):
It's like, you know, yeah, it's hard for me to
do anything for anyone that's that takes anything from you know.
So I mean I felt like, after the things I've
done for the organization that shouldn't even been been a
thought honestly, you know. And I would have happily been
there to do, you know, fulfill my duty to you know,
participate and and get back to the to the to
the to the receivers or however just just the organization

(35:16):
and the whole and and you know, if that happens,
of course I'll be there. I'm not saying I'm i'm
I'm I'm here. I'm transactional. But in this particular situation,
you know, I love football. I still you know, I
get back to football and in any way I can,
whether it's through my camps or going to see different
teams in the NFL College would have you, you you know,
but to be able to do it here at home

(35:37):
and fans love me. I love the fans here, you know,
but I can't. I can't. I would not step foot
into a building you know that, you know after I've
done so much in there, because that that's strong, I
mean straight up strong emotionally, but business wise, no, it
just doesn't work like that. Yeah, that's the thing that
gives me and said it it it. You can play
the short game or the long game in these situations,

(35:58):
and an organization has to understand if a player walks
away because his body, he's given everything and his body
just isn't right. That's different from somebody sort of shirking
their responsibility or whatever, um that sort of thing. And
it was it was always this point. I mean not
just your situation, the Lion situation, either with you or
with Barry back in the day, but any organization where

(36:20):
a face of the franchise one of the all time greats.
When it doesn't end right, you know, and that's the
unfortunate part. And I think that's why I tell young
guys when they come in, look, it may be a
honeymoon when you get there. But never forget this is
a business, right end of the day. It is a business.
And and the minute they feel you can't perform, you're out.
So Um, anyway, I'm hoping, i can say selfishly, even

(36:43):
though it doesn't affect me, I'm hoping one day it
resolved itself and the two of you, the two sides.
I just wanna tell you about one of your you know,
your former teammates, because he's still there and he's kind
of going through it. That's Matthew Stafford. Um. You know what,
what's what's it like to see him because I mean
he his body. I mean, he's getting banged up, get
injured more and more, but he still continued to he
still continues to do it, and he still keeps on

(37:06):
competing despite the lack of wins, the coaching turnover, um,
the lack of overall success. I mean, what can you
say about his journey? How good of a player he was,
and when you see him now what he's going through. Yeah, man,
it was a great plan with him. And you know,
he's a he's a gamer. He's a tough kid man.
He took a lot of he had injuries when he
first started, you know, and that that was interesting to

(37:28):
see how he was going to bounce back from that
from the very beginning. You know, it came in, he
got hurt, he missed a lot of time, but you know,
came back, he got an action, he got hurt again.
You know, he missed more time, but he was able
to come back and be that gun slinger that he
was that he was brought in to Detroit to be.
And it's just unfortunate. There's some time that I feel like,
honestly where you know, that phenomenal team. You know, I

(37:50):
just wish that you know, would have found some ways
to make that that squad go to make it work
or build around it. But you know, yeah, I look
forward to him honestly. You know, if usually a new
coach wants to bring in you know, start refresh and
draft a new quarterback and whatnot. So if he gets
a shot, hey go back to Texas and and get
some work in over there, you know, or just find

(38:10):
somewhere where you know, you can get a good squad
here at the end and uh, you know, have a chance.
I'm curious, at what point does a player of your
ability start thinking about the Hall of Fame, not on
y'all start mentioned it. Really, I'll started mentioning it. Really,
I mean, but but when you're playing, it's not something
that a player thinks about. No, I mean you might

(38:32):
have coaches say it, you know, in the meetings or
or or this and that. But other than that, I mean,
while you're playing, that's not even the thought, you know,
honestly for me, you know, I just I'm trying to think,
like the only time I thought about it is that
when when coach card Will said it, might say something
in the meeting or or or or Sean Jay, Sean
jeffersonbody said something. But for me, you know, it's just

(38:54):
a daily grind, you know, put one from my head down,
focus on what I gotta do. What's my goals for
to day? Get it done, you know, go rest up, recuperate,
do it again. But now but now you're there, I mean,
the vote is gonna be on Tuesday. I can't help
think about it because I'm getting handed by people like
do you know something you know something Like I'm like,
I don't. I don't know nothing unless they call me.

(39:16):
They don't call me. No, I don't know. You knock knock,
you want the knock like man if I if I
know something, I'll let y'all know, like getting it's gracious, well,
we haven't even had the vote yet, so how could
you know something, That's what I'm saying. I don't know how,
Like honestly, you know, I watched the Super Bowl usually,

(39:37):
but I probably catch it like late, like right right
after it starts. And I believe they announced and the
new the new team going in at the beginning or
something right there, the night before, the night before. Okay,
So so that's that's I was. I'm sitting here thinking
like this isn't gonna go down to like this summer,
you know, right before they do the Hall of Fame
game or something like that. That's just me not being

(39:59):
aware of of history here, that's all that is. No, No,
it's you're right, right, you're right. But it's just a
COVID that changed everything because normally we would be in
the host city, we would all meet in the room
that Saturday before the game and have the discussion and
the class would be picked. But because of COVID, everything

(40:20):
has to be done virtually, and so they're starting it
earlier this year process. But normally you would be right,
that's the way it would go down. It's just different
this year. But I just wonder any nerves. I mean,
I can't help it, you know, I mean honestly, you know,
for me, I mean, I put the work in. The
work that's out there is out it's out there for
the masses to see. I'm not did my day. I

(40:42):
feel like I was one of the best in the game.
I'm never gonna say I was the best because I
looked up to the lights of Randy Moss, to the
t O S. Jerry and just wanted to take those
things and put it onto one package, you know, to
Marvin Harrison and do all those things great. You know.
I wanted to try to put it all one package
and do it to the best of my ability. And
I felt like I did a pretty good job of that.
I mean, coming in, my goal was to you know,
if I figured, if I was like, I have a

(41:03):
thousand yards a year, you know, and and I'm I'm
maybe to play like you know, um, you know, almost
a decade. You know, I'll be all right, I'll be
able to leave my footprint, you know, in the game.
And you know, I don't think I was able to
do that for sure. Do you do you wonder, I mean,
you played nine seasons. Why is that not enough? Do
you ask? Your asking that question? When people say he

(41:25):
didn't play long enough or his career was short, you know,
I'm like, they're crazy, And if you go, I went
on in sixteen, but I was thinking out We didn't
know how long we wanted to play the year, Hey,
make it that long. I was hoping to have a
great team around me. Man. They put some great thing.

(41:46):
You know, we started to win a little bit. Man.
You know, it wasn't easy, you know, in and in
sixteen in Green Bay, you know, playing Green Bay and
the cold every year and in the weeks seventeen, that
wasn't easy. But um, you know, I think that that
same team, though a lot of those guys, helped us
get to the next level. You know. It was like,
we can't be here no more. You know, even though
it wasn't pretty. The next year we went to and
four team next year, but from that point on, I

(42:07):
felt like we're on the up and up and and
then and then I left. You know. The curious you
say that because I didn't want to ask you about that.
Over that two year period, you guys were two and thirty,
which was the worst market league history at that time
prior to what Cleveland did. Going you know that one
win there, um what told us that take on a player,
that that sort of constant. What you didn't mention is

(42:30):
my first year we started like seven and one maybe,
but we ended like one and seven, and then we
went on sixteen and then we went to and for Yeah,
it was just a little bit more. Yeah, that was
just I mean, losing it is tough, man. I mean
I never won a championship, I guess in college or
nothing like that, but we want, we won football games,
were very competitive and now that we weren't competitive, but

(42:52):
not winning games, not being able to protect your home field,
and it's just like the the uh just that kind
of zaps you too. You know. I'm not saying that
if I was, um um winning championships that I wouldn't
play like like twelve years. But I'm not saying that
I wouldn't either. You know, I can't say it, you know, right,
you know, but you know that that that definitely has

(43:13):
an effect. I just want to ask you Jim Caldwell.
I mean, he he had success there. You know, we
know he's a really fantastic football coach, and he's not
getting he's not even really getting sniff anymore. Um, what
would it like playing for Jim Caldwell And what's it
like seeing him and some other especially black coaches not
get opportunities, you know, each each hiring cycle. It's ridiculous.

(43:36):
I mean, that's why they they made to make that
look that rule and the league was the running rule, right,
But obviously I'm not so sure. I mean, obviously they're
probably they're following it to just to you know, just
so much just skimming shugging their real responsibilities, because I mean,
you got a league consistent of I don't know, seventy

(43:56):
plus percent players of African American, you know, and not
to have Harley in the African American coaches just baffling
to me, you know. But Jim Cardwell and specific, Uh,
what a man, what a coach. One of my favorite
coaches I've had head coaches. I think he might have
been the only black head coach that I had. Um,
he's a man of a man of God. You know. Um,

(44:17):
the guys fell in line because I mean just the
way that he that he approached our team, approached each person. Uh,
it was the same. It was consistent. You know, he
didn't curse of the team, you know, and now that
that permeated through the team, you know, how we conducted
ourselves is very professional, you know during those time. You know,
I mean I really think that he helped every person

(44:38):
on that team grow as a man. You know. So
when you have coaches like that, you know, I mean,
those are the irreplaceable kind of guys. I mentioned my
guy Sean J because I mean he was that same
kind of guy as well. You know, um, everything that
he asked, He's gonna ask you. You know, do you
want to be great this year? And I'm like, yeah,
of course, you know, do you want to be great
this year? I'm like yes. And it's like why I'm

(44:59):
an coaching, like you want to be great? And I'll
tell you he coached you. He told you just like that,
he gave you. He is all and all you respected
was all you I expect. It was a respect that
you're gonna give your all in return. And I say
all those things, all that translated on the field, and
we got to see it on Sunday, unfortunately, and I
I guess I could say in a in a more
individual capacity because it didn't relate to it. You didn't

(45:21):
uh turn into winds all the time. You know. What
was amazing to me about what you accomplished, Calvin was
that during your nine seasons, you had only one season
where you had another thousand yard receiver to compliment you
on your club. You had only one season where you
had a thousand yard rusher. So it's not like there

(45:42):
were other parts to take that pressure off of you.
I mean, you were the focal point and yet you
still put up those kind of numbers. That to me
that that's a sign of greatness and it just shows
what you were able to do because you know, I
know when we get in that room part of the
discussional b uh. You know, Reggie had Marvin um, Tory

(46:04):
had Isaac. They both had um Hall of Fame quarterbacks,
you know, and Calvin had again one season where he
had a thousand yard receiver opposite and only one season
where he had a thousand yard rushier Um, I'm just
curious when you when you went into every game every Sunday,
did you go and expecting that you were gonna get

(46:25):
doubled and tripled and special coverages? Yeah, we knew it
we knew that they'll sprinkle in some one on one
maybe on the parson down. You know, when they don't,
they don't anticipate in the strowing the ball. But if
it's third down, you know, I got cloud coverage. I
have two man. That's what they love to play. So
they keep that man on top and the inside of me,
you know. So the only the quarterback had to make

(46:46):
the perfect throw. Unfortunately I had Matt where he could
put those throws on the outside out there, you know,
just like that. You know. So, um, every every play,
every game. I talked to coordinators after the game. We're
ones that I played against, is like, yeah, if we knew,
if we stopped you, it's around, y'all have a chance.
So I mean, yeah, we knew it, you know. But
it was it was great house. You know, some help

(47:07):
when we when we did for sure, we got red
Man the best. A couple of them guys. Yeah hold up,
hold up. YouTube just crushed my dude. N Brosis. How
are you guys gonna do that? Nate and Nat they
was a big help for us, name helpful, like five
years and I'm just having fun. He loves you, man.

(47:29):
They did not speak about any player in the way
he speaks about you. Nate was one of the guys
man on the team, or that takes everybody into his house.
You know, all the receivers. We hung out in Nate's
house every like weekend. That was like probably one of
my favorite years because you know, we all took the
guys instead of going to the Pro Bowl. I took
the guys to Hawaii and we all just kicked it.
We taillgated. At the Pro Bowl. People was like, good

(47:51):
he an you doing here? They're just supposed to be
over there, you know, like vibe the man with the guys,
That's what it's all about. So those years Nat they
truly is a remarkable guy. Man. He brings everybody together.
Not the guy what about him? This being the broadcast
superstars that he is. I didn't I didn't see him
doing that, but it doesn't. It doesn't surprise me one bit.

(48:14):
He's the guy for the job. I mean I might
see him on you might see him on Real News
for real. I want, you know, I want our listeners
to be able to hear what guys who had to
play against Calvin have to say about him, just a
few Otherwise we'd be here all day, So I want
this to be out in the public arena as opposed
to just in the room that day. So let's talk

(48:37):
Rande Barber here. Among the things he said, I will
always remember him as one of the only receivers for
for whom we had to tweak our game plans because
none of us realistically could manage him alone. Go to
Richard Sherman, who you know is going to be in
the Hall one day, said Calvin deserves to be in

(48:57):
the Pro Football Hall of Fame because he's a once
in a life time generational talent. He did some of
the most unbelievable things that I've seen on a football field.
He was able to do it in a short amount
of time. And to me, this speaks to what all
of them have to say. If we're gonna paraphrase, and
it was from a key to lead who said, no
one has the total package, and he did. He said,

(49:20):
I remember knowing what he was going to do and
still not being able to stop it because of his attributes. Now,
if that ain't a Hall of Fame player, I need
to give up my vote. I'm never gonna know what
one is. So pretty cool, that's cool things, just to
hear from your peers, man, and like to hear things
you never heard before, like those man, that's just the

(49:41):
guys that you go against. And you know, I just
wish I had a chance to play against guys like
Richard Sherman Moore. You know, obviously I played against Pat
p a lot with some of those great guys. Man,
this is just awesome to hear that from them from
their perspective, you know, because you know, we know what
tremendous athletes and players they've been for their team. So kudos.
Since what's so people talk about first ballot guys, Kelvin?

(50:04):
Does that matter to you? Man? We're here now. I mean,
of course it'll be if you'll feel like a slight
I guess if you don't get in, you know, the
first time, and you're up there, you're finally you know,
of course, And I can't say that it wouldn't. But
because we're human, we're emotional, you know. But uh, you
know what I mean, I feel happened. I feel, I

(50:24):
confidently feel like it happened, But uh, will happened first time?
That would be awesome to get it out the way,
not why not? I do I look I'm I'm there's
no question which way I'm voting. So I try and
be as transparent as possible. I tell people every year
when they ask after it's over, who did you vote for,
even though it's a secret vote, because I believe its

(50:45):
a journalist, we always ask for transparency and so therefore
we should give it back in return, so there won't
be any secret from from my end. But um again,
I just want to say, when I look at these
numbers and I look it what you accomplished, I don't
understand this whole didn't play long enough thing, I really don't.

(51:06):
I mean not in seasons. To me, that's that's a
lifetime in the NFL, man particularly play at such an
elite level. So yeah, when you walk the way, did
you ever give any thought that maybe somehow that would
impact your Hall of fame? Candidacy talked that maybe you
didn't play long enough. There was talk, you know, but

(51:28):
I was like, hey, I know what I did. I
know how I did it in the in the manner
that I did in in the you know, the uber
professional manner that I did it, and at the pace
that I did it. You know, So if that's not worthy,
then I mean, I know why it's not worth It
is what it is, you know, it is what it
is here here. Well Calvin, look, you're thirty five years old.

(51:50):
You've got a lot of life left to live. The
business path that you're on, um, the trails that you
continue to blaze off the field, I think that's fantastic
what you on on the field. I think, Jim and
I hope to see you and can't a little bit
later the summer when when this COVID lift. But we
just can't thank you, you know enough for taking the
time that joints here on the huddling flow again. We
know you don't do a lot of this stuff, and

(52:12):
this was an absolute blast. I had a great time
talking to you, man, This is cool. I always love
talking to football guys. Thank you for the history. Thank
you for you know, tell me what my peers are saying,
Like I said that, that's that's a treat. That was
It really was, man. Well, we we appreciate you letting
us see true greatness. So thank you. Um. Like I
say that, I say to Charles and I say to

(52:33):
Steve Smith, seeing or another I know a hall of famer.
This way for me, if if my cheap ass is
gonna dig in my pocket and pull out money to
pay to see him play. He's all of Famer. Thank you, Steve,
you know, and I'm glad we had a chance to

(52:54):
get Calvin on because I think that his candidacy is
going to be one of the more interesting discussions um
when the voters all get together. And really, for me,
I mean, I mean, I'm being as honest as I
can be, as transparent as I can be. I don't
understand it from the standpoint. Nine years to me is
a lifetime in the NFL. To do it better than

(53:14):
anyone did it during those nine years. I don't get why. Somehow,
what it reminds me of is this when people talk
about um longevity and whatnot. I remember having this discussion
with in Treill davis candidacy, and people were like, oh,
he didn't play long enough than the other and I said,
look at his postseason numbers, and I said, in his

(53:37):
short time, he accomplished more than Emmett Smith, um, Eric Dickerson, um,
Thurman Thomas, you pick, any of these running backs are
in the Hall of Fame. He accomplished more than any
of those people. And in half the time as it
relates to him at Smith Calvin Johnson. In my mind, um,

(53:58):
it'sn't easy first ballot Hall of Famer, And I don't
have any hesitation about saying that. I don't understand my
nine years is too short. Anyway. We talked about the
average lifespan of NFL players three and a half years. Well,
he's all but tripled that. I look at how many
people nine years. That's a long time. That makes you
that he retired at thirty, but he came out of
college early. I mean, it's just, you know, it is

(54:21):
what it is. And but Jim also, I mean we
talked about it. He was it. Teams could double and
triple him. I mean it wasn't like they had four
other cats like they or played schemes necessarily where they
had to, you know, constantly be on alert. He was
getting double on triple teams all the time, and he
was still doing it. So I don't think it's a
tough discussion discussion. And that's no slight to Reggie Ortry

(54:43):
or any other finalists. I mean, Calvin was that dude.
DB's opposing coaches everybody will tell you that Calvin was
that dude. Jim before we get out here, I wanna
I wanna move on to something real quick. And this
is personal to us as how University graduates. There was
a great video that Fox Sports put out this week

(55:04):
of our fellow Howard along Gus Johnson Um and Gus
is going back to Burr Gymnasium to cover Notre Dame
to cover Notre Dame Howard basketball game. Of course, Howard
had mccormaker, one of the top recruits in the country.
God plays part probably part of the reason why this
game is being broadcast on Fox Sports. You know, Gus
broke down about, you know, going back to Howard and

(55:26):
calling the game and how what he used to call games.
They're Burr Gymnasium. There was a plug outlet at the
Gymnasium with his name on it. Gus is plug. That's
still there. Ed Hill, the former s I d there
a long time, s I do help both of us
along with our cars. It's still there, and it really
it just means everything, you know. And when I saw that,

(55:46):
I'm like, man, you know, I'm sure we went back.
We went back and did the huddling flow from Howard.
I mean, so you know, we we'd be feeling it
a little bit, you know, it's Um, I just love
seeing Gust, especially because Gus was a year behind me,
me and stan Vrette who's now at ESPN, and and
we just saw his grind was like so next level.
We thought ours was was intensive. It was so next level. Man. No,

(56:10):
I look, we we all have talked about what Howard
University meant to us in terms of our our development
as professionals and as men. So when I saw that
clip of Gus, like you and and everyone else that
I know who went to Howard, particularly in our field, UM,
you know, it touched the nerves. So oh, it's just

(56:33):
you know, it's just it was just a special time,
a special place. UM. And it was funny because Edi
Hill actually texted me, uh the day after I saw it,
and someone posted a picture of a bunch of us
at an event where Stay and spoke and made made
a donation to UM to the department, and uh and

(56:54):
typically ed with his humor, you know, he said, basically,
you should be honored to share the same space with me,
you know, And that's it. That's how that's how he was,
you know. But but if anyone who knows and knows
he was always so giving when it came to us. So,
um No, some people might not have understood the emotion
that the guests show, but I understood it. And it's

(57:15):
just like I said, the fact that I would say,
you know today and having graduated to say that, have
given the choice to do it all over again, what
I I wouldn't even hesitate the answers. Yes, I'd be
back there in a heartbeat. And what our fellow alumni
will also be sworn as the Vice President of the
United States on Wednesday, A proud moment for the Capstone,

(57:38):
the Mecca, the only HU, the HBC you Howard University. Alright, Jim,
let's go ahead and shut it down. Uh. But on
another note, let's see some black coaches at some point
in this league. Let's let's let's go look. Let's stop
with the old leather helmet treatment of where this league

(57:59):
has become when it comes of leadership, because we aren't
we aren't going to ease up. You try and take
emotion out of the out of you're reporting. And this
one's just hard, man, because it's not like this is
one year. This is like the fourth consecutive year where
where it's like you know, it almost feels like we

(58:21):
have to beg for an opportunity and and that's just ridiculous.
These men have earned the opportunity or the right to
have an opportunity. And look, I think in the previous
three years there were what three black head coaches hired,
I think out of twenty openings something like that. I'm
just doing it off the top of my head. So
if there are none this year, or even if there

(58:43):
is one, that means basically it would be four out
of the last twenty seven openings. That's ridiculous. It's just
it's just so offensive, and everyone has an excuse for
why it is or or can explain why it happens.
And that's what frustrates me, Like, we can make all
the excuses we want, but I think it's time for

(59:05):
people to be intentional. If this matters, if this is important,
it's time to make it intentional. And it's time to
say that over a five year period of you know,
we have another twenty five openings um x number you
know will have to be filled by diverse candidates something.
Because if you don't make it intentional right now, it
looks like nothing is going to change. And I'm sorry

(59:28):
to some degree to have to to have to sound
this way, but man, I wish everyone out there could
hear the voices of these coaches who called Steve and I.
I just wish you could. Yeah, it's and I think
you'd feel a little differently. And Jim, let's let's also
bring up this quick point before we get out of here.
Look at the saluting that happened with the Rams the Niners.

(59:51):
I forget about how hey for them losing a person
of color. They're getting too draft picks. And now these
teams you get, Hey, you're you're doing it. You're doing
what's right. So now the team that's looting, you're getting
too draft picks. Okay, we get it, we get it.
But just that that just goes to show again it's
not a league issue. The league is doing everything you
can't do incentivized teams to develop people, which teams are

(01:00:13):
doing to push people. But then when it comes time to, uh,
you know, to to pull the lever, folks just they
just can't find it in their souls. So they just
can't find it in their souls. Look, I've said this
before and I'll say it again. If you have to
incentifize the process for people to do the right thing.
It's already the wrong thing, and I'm never going to

(01:00:34):
get off that. I don't care what anyone says. It's
just wrong. It's just wrong. So, having said that, having
having gotten a few things off my chest, again, Steve
and I just want to thank you all for listening,
for subscribing, for leaving us comments um and please continue

(01:00:55):
to do so. Let us know what you want to hear,
the topics you want to address, the people you'd like
to hear. From that way we can give you more
of what you're funking for. Well. Else, want to thank
Into It for jumping on board the Huddle and Flow podcast.
Remember into It is the problem makers of Turbo Tax,
QuickBooks and Mint for Jim Trotter, our producer Thomas Warren.

(01:01:17):
On the Ones and twos, I'm Steve White. We are
the Howard Mob and we are out