November 25, 2025 • 22 mins
Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks are back with a new episode of Move the Sticks. They kick things off breaking down the rest of Week 12 including Seahawks - Titans (2:23), Patriots - Bengals (4:00), Vikings - Packers (6:09), Jaguars - Cardinals (12:02), Ravens - Jets (17:03) and Falcons - Saints(19:11).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now move the sticks with Daniel, Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
What's up, everybody? Welcome to move the sticks? DJ and
Buck with you? Buck? What is going on? Man?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Not too much?
Speaker 1 (00:12):
DJ? Getting rid of for the holidays? DJ? What's your favorite?
What's your favorite dessert? Favorite dessert? Favorite dessert? Thanksgiving? Yeah,
you know what. I like a pumpkin pie, just just Thanksgiving.
I'm not I don't have it any other time of
the year. Not mel Kuiper has it every day. But
I do like it there So if I have a choice,
(00:33):
you know what my favorite my favorite flavor is, give
me pecan pie with ice cream. Oh look at you
cooking n night. Okay, So now that you know, are
you apple pie guy? You? No?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
No, I'm a sweet, sweet potato pie like from the South,
sweet potatoes everything. So it's funny because before you popped on,
I was talking to Gavin. I got a pick up
the pies like that is. I try not to indulge.
I'm trying to be better, making sure everything is right.
But Thanksgiving I'm looking today.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
It's a cheap day. It's a cheap I have a
better myself, you know, but you gotta have you gotta
have those. I mean, come on, it should be fine. Okay,
Pumpkin picked that one. And by the way, I'm I
feel like I'm in the minority on this. I like
green Bean castrole, but I feel like every year at Thanksgiving,
I'm the only one who goes in.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, you know all myself. Yeah, if it was the pod,
like I just slide it, slide it all the way
over to you.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
You can have it. Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah,
I like it. I like the mashed potatoes kind of
getting in there a little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Oh okay, Yeah, I'm I'm a cranberry cranberry sauce guy.
I like stuffing. I love stuffing with little giblick gravy
over top. I am uh turkey. I'm more dark meat
than white meat.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
I'm more more leg And what about hand versus turkey?
Where do you come out on that? Like, if I'm
doing I'm gonna I'm gonna go turkey all day. I'm
lean towards ham, especially the the hand with the Hawaiian role.
Slide that little I knew Hawaiian role. It's so funny.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I was thinking about roles, and I was thinking about
Hawaiian roles versus the old brown Yeah, round of server
rolls from way back up.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah, those are solid. Stop man, I'm getting hungry here.
But there were some games that we didn't hit on.
I wanted to touch on from last week as we
kind of move forward into this week. But one of
them was Seattle in Tennessee. Not a game I think
we would really pay much attention to. I thought cam
Ward did some good things and made some play, especially
towards the end of that ball game, made some big
(02:33):
time throws. And I think with these young receivers that
they have, I'm excited that they have some pieces that
they can kind of move forward with. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Now, the cam Ward conversation is interesting because he is
the least discussed number one overall pick that I've ever
known in my scouting lif Like, no one really talks
about him, but he certainly has made some strides.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
That was a good game.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I'm excited to see him this weekend because the Jacks
go into Nashville to take him on so to see
how the progress is going for him. Obviously, he's an
attractive quarterback to work with because looking at him coming
from Miami, you can see all of the horsepower, all
of the big time throws, the alpha dog leadership persona.
All that stuff is there, and he is progressing. He
(03:11):
doesn't have a lot to work with. But what I
want to see from him is to just continue to
get better and to see if he'll just keep swinging, like,
just keep swing, keep playing hard. Can he find a
way to keep his offense moving intoing those things because's
gonna bow because eventually they go surround them with the
right pieces and his game is going upop.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
But I don't want to see what he looks.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Like doing the storm because that speaks volumes about his
football character and how he's going to be when he
finally flips it and it becomes advantageous for him.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
They're gonna make a good spot right now. They have
the number one overall peck, so I'm sure they will
put that thing up for sale in the hopes that
somebody wants to come up for a quarterback and maybe
some buzzle build on these quarterbacks as we get through
the process. But I did think he did some good
things there. They need to continue to add to that
offensive line. Man. They got to make some upgrades there,
no question if they want to take the next step
forward New England Cincinnati, New England just kind of I
(04:03):
would say ugly to it up, but they found a
way to get to the winner circle. There. They lost
a couple of linemen, those two rookies that have played
well for him and Wilson as well as you lose
a very very talented left tackle, Will Campbell. So that
was a win, but almost felt like a loss with
those two injuries.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, non, that's big because one thing that we do
know about the Patriots, they've been so good because they've
had all their weapons in place, and as they're getting
down the stretch, if they're starting to get banged up
while other teams are beginning to get their players, it
changes the dynamic. But I would say this, man, I
love what they've been able to do this year, the
Mike Rabel effect, Josh McDaniels with the young quarterback and
(04:39):
how it's coming together, Traveon Henderson beginning to emerge, Stefan
Diggs playing well coming off with that injury a season ago. Man,
it's really bright for the Patriots. But now that you're
in it, DJ, you kind of want to get greedy.
I've already got the ten you want to see, like
how far can we push this thing if we finished
strong so that it'd be great to see what Drake
(05:00):
made looks like in the postseason, because that's the next step.
Because as we talked about the game getting, the games
get bigger, they get faster, more physical than those things.
How does he respond to that big game element. That's
what I don't want to see from him as he
gets into the postseason. Also doesn't feel like the Murderers
row in the AFC anymore. I mean they have a
number one seed.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
It could all go through New England like the old days,
and you start looking around. The Chiefs aren't really the Chiefs.
The Bills aren't what they've been, The Ravens aren't what
they've been. Cincinnati is not going to make the tournament.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
It is wide open if you're any team We talk
about the patient, but if you're any team DJ, the
only thing you're trying to do is just get a
dancing a ticket to because if you get a ticket
to the dance, anybody can win this because there's not
a prohibitive favorite in the AFC.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
From Denver's there, but they don't have that experience. They
got a great defense, but the offense is in. I mean,
for every team has a fatal flaw.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
There's not really a complete team in the AFC, whereas
in the NFC it's.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
A little different. It's a little more stacked.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, so now this is a great time if you're
the Patriots, I mean, you're might grabe. You can stand
in front of the team say hey, guys, we can
go we can go win this thing. If we continue
to progress, we can win this thing at the end.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
What's your panic level with JJ mccarthinking is they got
handled a little bit by the Packers. It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Like so here's what I'll say, Like, because we scouted before,
like social media was a thing. Man as a front
office exec, now you have to be so convicted in
your place because the noise is louder than ever before.
And with JJ McCarthy, I think we still have to
remember this is his rookie season. In essence, he didn't
play last year, off season whatever, So he's six seven
(06:41):
games in and look, they're gonna be some moments.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I think.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
The big thing you're Kevin O'Connell. You're the organization man.
You got to find a way to kind of weather
the storm, and you got to find a way to
get everyone on board while helping the young quarterback develop.
The only way he's gonna get better, he has to
go through the struggle. You can't pull him out and
your thinking that it's going to get better. You got
to stand firm in there, and he has to stand
Tanto's down and find a way to get to the
(07:06):
other side, because once he gets to the other side,
these lessons are going to help him. But he just
has to do it. So I'm not panicked about it.
I just know it's kind of part of the process.
But that's also me saying it without a Viking's affiliation.
And there's nothing that I have right noticed, I say,
hey have more patients. They're in a win now mode
based on their roster, and the fan base is clamoring
(07:26):
for them to go on.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
So I was thinking back to that draft, right and
you got those six quarterbacks that go towards the top
of the draft and the top half of the first round,
and odds are just they are what they are. Everybody
everybody needed. So I was thinking of the like the knocks,
if you're going to say, what were the fears of
those quarterbacks? So Caleb was too much off schedule right,
(07:48):
and he's improved that big time from last year to
this year. So that's great to see Jad and Daniels.
To be honest with you, it was more of the
frame and like, is this guy built for the NFL
to be able to hold up? Now? He held up
the first year they went to the conference championship game
and this year he's been on the shelf. So that
durability is was the concern and has raised its head
a little bit this year. Drake Drake was okay, trying
(08:11):
to be trying to be too much like trying to
be a little bit too much Superman like, trying to
make hero plays, and he's he's been able to make
the magical plays without the mistakes. Like he's found I mean,
he's found kind of nirvana here this year with the
way that he's put it all together. But that was
probably the knocker the concern there, Pennix, What was it? Buck?
It was a durability. The guy has been heard his
(08:31):
whole career and here we are again with another acl
Like that's a major that's a major issue. Bo Nicks
was which bone Nicks are you getting? You're getting the
Auburn bon Knicks you're getting the Oregon bone knicks and
then maybe he's hit his head on the ceiling. Maybe
he's kind of maxed out. That was the question on him,
And then JJ McCarthy was he just hadn't played a lot.
He didn't played a lot. They didn't ask him to
(08:52):
throw it a lot, like he's young. Like this is
kind of like the unknown. So if we're looking at
all of these, the two that would be the most
concerning for me going forward would be Panix with his
durability concerns, and would be JJ with the lack of experience.
Would be the two. The two of these six I
would say, okay, at this point getting the hat over
(09:12):
halfway through year two, those would be the two I'd
be a little bit worried about.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
And it makes sense because one thing we do know,
like the injury history is significant. So first with Michael Pennix,
you talked about five season injuries now in eight of
the last season that he's played. Man, it's hard to
overcome that, and that's that's a part of his history,
that's part of his legacy, and that's always going to
be a part of the conversation for him going forward.
For JJ, McCarthy. It goes back to the truisms that
(09:37):
we know about the quarterback position. It is really hard
to be good at quarterback in the National Football League
when you don't have a lot of starts in college,
and he didn't have a lot of starts.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
He was going to take time to develop.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
But we are learning in this league no one has
the patience to wait for developmental players. And maybe they
can figure out a way to scheme it up and
to trick it up until he kind of catches up
with the speed of the game. But this was always
going to be the struggle. Bo Nicks has significant stars.
Jayde Daniels had significant stars. Kavi Williams was a three
year star like everybody else had experienced. He didn't, And
(10:11):
so what we're hoping on is that he can hit
and figure it out. I just don't know if they
have enough time to wait on him to catch up
with the rest of the team.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah. No, it'll be interesting to follow that quarterback class,
you know, years down the road to see how it
all pans out for him. Uh, it was what's the difference,
Why is it? Why is it working for Drake?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Because Drake didn't have He only had two years experience,
Like the experience was comparable between the two.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
They put the game on his shoulder. That that that
Carolina team even when they had a good back, that
good backs, that that offense you watched him every week.
That that ran through Drake and he had monster He
had a monster season the year before for year. Yeah,
first year for sure Carolina. That that offense JJ McCarthy.
I mean everybody go, okay, the Alabama game, like you
can find a game here or there, but that that
(10:58):
team did not run through JJ McCarthy. That team ran
to the defense in the run game.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, he had more moments, So he had moments of
having to be the game changer where Drake may had
to own on the game. This goes through me. I
am not managing this team. This is my show. Let's
go get in.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah, it was, you know, to use the acting thing
like he was the leading man and JJ McCarthy was
a supporting actor. So you know, that's just it is
where it is, and we'll see how it goes going forward.
But obviously Drake is he's in a great place. They
put a good group around him and coaches and players,
and he's he's taken off and and right now you'd
say he's the best of the bunch of this entire class.
(11:35):
But interesting to see the playoff experience you're going to get.
Caleb's got a good chance to make the playoffs this year.
We talked about Jaye Daniels in the playoffs last year.
Drake's going to be in the playoffs this year. Oh
Nicks last year and this year most likely. So again,
the two guys that you worry about are JJ and Pennox.
We'll see you know what happens with them going forward
(11:55):
if anything changes there. All right, Buck, let's pause for
a second and we'll be right back a couple more results.
I wanted to get to you on here. We didn't
talk about your Jags. Actually we did talk a little
bit about your jags finding a way to eque out
and uh a little bit.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I gonna ask you.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I want to, I want to.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
I want to ask you just because I feel like
I'm too close to the Trevor Lawrence situation. So I
want to ask you as an ounsider, because you saw
him a couple of weeks ago with the charges. You've
seen him obviously when he was coming out. You've heard
about him when he was a freshman at Clemson. He
leads him to the Natty and all that other stuff,
like what are your thoughts? Like, we're five years in
and he is still like polarizing when people have this
(12:37):
discussion on who he is and what he's going to
be as a franchise player.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
So I just remember when I was a kid, You're
playing Little league and they would tell you like you
just want you want it so bad. But you remember
them saying like, hey, hey, you're I can see your
white knuckles. You are squeezing the life out of the bat.
Like relaxed loose. He plays to me like somebody whose
(13:02):
shoulders are scrunched up, Like it's just he's very he's
very tight. He's not he's I don't know. That's what
I thought. Just watching him. I thought, Okay, they can
scheme some things and give him some things and he
can hit it. But I did not see a guy
who was playing confident, relaxed loose. It just didn't. It
just didn't look like the same guy that I saw.
I saw him playing in college multiple times, and that
(13:24):
was a more confident version of who he is.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
So I gonna ask you this because I wanted in
then to get to the conversation that Liam Cohen had
with him about just let it rip. Defensive minded coaches,
defensive coaches or some coaches teach ball security first, play
making second. As a quarterback and someone who's been that,
how does that change your misset if someone is always
(13:48):
telling you, like right before you break down the ball, hey, hey,
take care of the ball. So to go from that
to now have someone to stell you, ay man, let
it go. We can live with an inner option two.
How hard is it for you to do the brain flip,
even from scaling it down and being conservative, to know
a literate be more aggressive.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah, to me, it's why you almost have that mental coach,
you know, someone a psychologist you can talk to, because
I firmly believe in that you can have a It's
like when you you know, we talked about the golf stuff.
You never want to think don't hit it in the water,
don't hit it in the trap, don't hit it at
a bounce. So you want to think I'm attacking. This
is where I'm going. I can see it, I can
visualize it, I'm gonna get it there. And it's an
(14:30):
aggressive mindset. I don't think you're ever going to be
successful at that position if you're passive and if you're
if you're scared, you know, if you if you're so
worried about turn the ball over, make a mistake. And
that's organizations have failed a lot of quarterbacks by beating
that into their head. You know. I think that's I
think that's a major issue. It's tough to overcome too
when you've been programmed that way.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, because I think that's where he's at and that's
where he's trying to come out of. And I would
say watching it this week against the Cardinals, as you know, man,
it's hard when you turn it over four times when
you have three interceptions, but to keep throwing, I would
say that might have been the breakthrough in terms of
he never let it, he never scaled it back. The
(15:09):
throat that he made to Parker Washington in the end
zone was a big time throw, and for him to
continue to make those throws, I think he speaks to
him maybe beginning to turn the corner in terms of
being a guy that can play free and loose and
go after it while having some charnovers. Because some guys
you just have to know Hey, don't turn the ball
over like this is you bake that into the planet.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Understand it.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
But I think he has to play to the line
or to the edge for the team to maximize who
they can be with him.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I think there's different turnovers though. I think interception wise,
like I saw Philip Rivers throw a lot of interceptions
covering him with the Chargers over the years, but it
was always I'm going, I'm attacking, you know, I mean,
like it was an aggressive mistake. It wasn't a h
you know, kind of a not a confident throw and
the ball might take off on you and you get
(15:58):
some picks Philip, and Philip live with it. He just
his chin strap and that way and that way in
one air out the other. Like he moved on. And well,
I mean like that's because I was thinking about it
with with Donald, Like Donald's throwing some interceptions. But Donald,
what I've been impressed with him this year is that, yeah,
he's had he's had a game like that and then
(16:19):
he just flushes it and he didn't affect him and
he's still attacking, he's still pushing the ball down the field.
So I think within that game, you're discussing maybe that
is a good sign for him going forward that he
was able to stay on the attack a little bit.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yeah, that's a good point with Donald and even on
Monday night watching Brod Perdy throw three interceptions, like how
hard is it to keep firing when you do have
some turnovers and some of them are bad, some of
them are you know, deflected balls. But can you just
pick the ball up and continue to go after it?
It's one of those things we talk about with quarterbacks.
I need to see him have a little diversity in college.
(16:51):
What do they look like when they throw an interception?
What does the next few passes look like right after
the interception? Do they scale it back or do they
go right back to it and they're just as aggressive
as they were previously.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Well, are you surprised at all the Baltimore's back in
first place after that one?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I no, because I think we talked about it. Here's
what I will say about Baltimore. You know their organization.
I would give John Harbor a lot of credit. When
the noise is loud and people are talking about all
the changes, he just stayed the course. They made some
changes defensively, obviously, moving call Hamilton down in the box.
They got the trade, Malachot Stars goes back to playing
a little more center fielder action, the defenses beginning to
(17:28):
come together and keep everything in front, and then offensively,
man when Lamar Jackson back, it changes a lot of.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
What they do.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
I think the main thing for the Ravens is they
lost some games early that you wouldn't think would shake
their confidence, but it shook their confidence. Derrick Henry fumbling early,
some of those things. But DJ they're a favorite to
win the division. Now, they're playing better than Pittsburgh. They're
a dangerous team. They're more dangerous team than Pittsburgh. Yeah,
it took them a while to find their way, but
(17:56):
they're all the way back.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah. I an interesting thing is, you know, they win
that game, and I think Lamar was great. Derrick Henry
average three yards of carry to get in the end
zone twice. I don't think that they've found themselves offensively,
you know, for all to talk about the defense struggling earlier,
I don't know this offense is in any rhythm in sync.
But again, in a wide open AFC, if they get
(18:18):
in they've been in there. They've been there, done that before,
and I think there definitely is another level from where
they're playing right now that they can get to.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Well, here's the thing that I think we'll talk about
when we get to the tournament. For your team to win,
you have to have a quarterback that can give you
the magic in the fourth quarter. So when I look
at the teams that are sizing up in there and
we talk about the quarterback position or whatever, we know
Josh Allen can go to another level. We know that
Patrick Mahomes can go to another level. Lamar Jackson can
(18:46):
go to another level. The teams that get in you
better have a quarterback that can live in the fourth
quarter matchic because if not these games, because you talk
about it being wide open in the shootouts when they
defers the quarterback play, who has the best quarterback in
the tournament, those are gonna be the guys that can
win it, Yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
And then they can definitely do that last one that
we didn't touch on the other day that we'll get
to here, Atlanta takes care of New Orleans twenty four
to ten.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Interesting, right, Kirk Cousins, we were done with it that one. Yeah,
we're done with Kirk Cousin. Don't want kok cursin to
do it. They say they can do it. They give
them full week or prep and this offense looks like
the offense that you expected to see. They push it
down the field, they run it, able to do some things.
And I don't know how long Kirk can sustain this level.
(19:35):
But you can't tell me that the offense didn't look
different with him at quarterback, Like there's just something that
his experience brings to this offense. With the weapons that
they have, then maybe they can do it. And they're
I mean, they're off the pace significantly now, But I
do wonder can Kirk Cousins not only get them in
the mix, but maybe potentially save their jobs with the
way that he plays down the stretch New Orleans.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
And we'll see if they'll do it now. But I
just to me, and they're going to have the top.
They might have a second pick. They could end up
having the first pick when it's all said and done.
But to me, it's like anybody over thirty, like at
this point in time, let's move on from all of them,
Like let's let's let's finally do the rebuild that they've
needed to do the last couple of years. Strip this
thing down man.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
And younger, fast and more athletic, more dynamic, like go
all the way in. But it takes a full commitment
from everybody to understand what it could look like when
you play all these young guys, like you have to plan,
but DJ, you.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Got to plan. The only way, the only way they get.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Experience is you have to plan, and you have to
be able to live through their mistakes. If you're unwilling
to live through the mistakes, your team will never be
what it could be.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
With the young guys.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
They have to play and you have to be okay
with them playing.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, I just I don't know. There's not a lot
of pillars here that they can take with them to
build off of going into next year. When you look
at some of their key players, you know, it's just
the bande excited there. But Cam Jordan's leading them a
four and a half sacks, Granderson's got four and a
half sacks. I mean to me, they need some juice, man,
(21:06):
They need some young guys who can run. How long
have you how long have we had this conversation about
this a couple of years. Just really all have to
do it, man, Like a five year conversation about the
Saints needing to get younger, more dynamic every year when
we get to mock graft season, we talk about putting
past ruses and all this there, and yet there's still
the same like, like, I feel like this is one
(21:29):
where you have to if you're a general manager, you
have to like cut them all and kill them.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Wore goes a can't go on vacation and he comes
back and everyone has been cutting the gum and you're like, oh,
I don't have anybody.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
It's not a one year fix. And Tyler Shucks made
some nice throws, can move around a little bit, but
I don't know if that's the answer for them. So
a lot of work to be done there. Do you
want to remind everybody coming up? The NFL continues to
honor and commemorate the late John Madden with the fourth
annual John Madden Thanksgiving Celebration on Thursday, November twenty seventh.
(22:01):
A special NFL produced Madden Hallmark will kick off each
broadcast conveying what Thanksgiving meant to him in his own words,
So very cool able to honor John Madden and all
the heat meant to those Thanksgiving games, and we got
a good slate of games. Looking forward to to just
get some good food, hanging out with the family and
watching some football. There's nothing better on a Thursday, no question.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
No nothing.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
This should be fun man, I'm looking forward to it
all right. Well, there you go, quick one today. I
hope you guys enjoy it and we will see you
next time. Right here on, move the sticks.
And now move the sticks with Daniel, Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
What's up, everybody? Welcome to move the sticks? DJ and
Buck with you? Buck? What is going on? Man?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Not too much?
Speaker 1 (00:12):
DJ? Getting rid of for the holidays? DJ? What's your favorite?
What's your favorite dessert? Favorite dessert? Favorite dessert? Thanksgiving? Yeah,
you know what. I like a pumpkin pie, just just Thanksgiving.
I'm not I don't have it any other time of
the year. Not mel Kuiper has it every day. But
I do like it there So if I have a choice,
(00:33):
you know what my favorite my favorite flavor is, give
me pecan pie with ice cream. Oh look at you
cooking n night. Okay, So now that you know, are
you apple pie guy? You? No?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
No, I'm a sweet, sweet potato pie like from the South,
sweet potatoes everything. So it's funny because before you popped on,
I was talking to Gavin. I got a pick up
the pies like that is. I try not to indulge.
I'm trying to be better, making sure everything is right.
But Thanksgiving I'm looking today.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
It's a cheap day. It's a cheap I have a
better myself, you know, but you gotta have you gotta
have those. I mean, come on, it should be fine. Okay,
Pumpkin picked that one. And by the way, I'm I
feel like I'm in the minority on this. I like
green Bean castrole, but I feel like every year at Thanksgiving,
I'm the only one who goes in.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, you know all myself. Yeah, if it was the pod,
like I just slide it, slide it all the way
over to you.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
You can have it. Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah,
I like it. I like the mashed potatoes kind of
getting in there a little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Oh okay, Yeah, I'm I'm a cranberry cranberry sauce guy.
I like stuffing. I love stuffing with little giblick gravy
over top. I am uh turkey. I'm more dark meat
than white meat.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
I'm more more leg And what about hand versus turkey?
Where do you come out on that? Like, if I'm
doing I'm gonna I'm gonna go turkey all day. I'm
lean towards ham, especially the the hand with the Hawaiian role.
Slide that little I knew Hawaiian role. It's so funny.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I was thinking about roles, and I was thinking about
Hawaiian roles versus the old brown Yeah, round of server
rolls from way back up.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah, those are solid. Stop man, I'm getting hungry here.
But there were some games that we didn't hit on.
I wanted to touch on from last week as we
kind of move forward into this week. But one of
them was Seattle in Tennessee. Not a game I think
we would really pay much attention to. I thought cam
Ward did some good things and made some play, especially
towards the end of that ball game, made some big
(02:33):
time throws. And I think with these young receivers that
they have, I'm excited that they have some pieces that
they can kind of move forward with. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Now, the cam Ward conversation is interesting because he is
the least discussed number one overall pick that I've ever
known in my scouting lif Like, no one really talks
about him, but he certainly has made some strides.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
That was a good game.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I'm excited to see him this weekend because the Jacks
go into Nashville to take him on so to see
how the progress is going for him. Obviously, he's an
attractive quarterback to work with because looking at him coming
from Miami, you can see all of the horsepower, all
of the big time throws, the alpha dog leadership persona.
All that stuff is there, and he is progressing. He
(03:11):
doesn't have a lot to work with. But what I
want to see from him is to just continue to
get better and to see if he'll just keep swinging, like,
just keep swing, keep playing hard. Can he find a
way to keep his offense moving intoing those things because's
gonna bow because eventually they go surround them with the
right pieces and his game is going upop.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
But I don't want to see what he looks.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Like doing the storm because that speaks volumes about his
football character and how he's going to be when he
finally flips it and it becomes advantageous for him.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
They're gonna make a good spot right now. They have
the number one overall peck, so I'm sure they will
put that thing up for sale in the hopes that
somebody wants to come up for a quarterback and maybe
some buzzle build on these quarterbacks as we get through
the process. But I did think he did some good
things there. They need to continue to add to that
offensive line. Man. They got to make some upgrades there,
no question if they want to take the next step
forward New England Cincinnati, New England just kind of I
(04:03):
would say ugly to it up, but they found a
way to get to the winner circle. There. They lost
a couple of linemen, those two rookies that have played
well for him and Wilson as well as you lose
a very very talented left tackle, Will Campbell. So that
was a win, but almost felt like a loss with
those two injuries.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, non, that's big because one thing that we do
know about the Patriots, they've been so good because they've
had all their weapons in place, and as they're getting
down the stretch, if they're starting to get banged up
while other teams are beginning to get their players, it
changes the dynamic. But I would say this, man, I
love what they've been able to do this year, the
Mike Rabel effect, Josh McDaniels with the young quarterback and
(04:39):
how it's coming together, Traveon Henderson beginning to emerge, Stefan
Diggs playing well coming off with that injury a season ago. Man,
it's really bright for the Patriots. But now that you're
in it, DJ, you kind of want to get greedy.
I've already got the ten you want to see, like
how far can we push this thing if we finished
strong so that it'd be great to see what Drake
(05:00):
made looks like in the postseason, because that's the next step.
Because as we talked about the game getting, the games
get bigger, they get faster, more physical than those things.
How does he respond to that big game element. That's
what I don't want to see from him as he
gets into the postseason. Also doesn't feel like the Murderers
row in the AFC anymore. I mean they have a
number one seed.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
It could all go through New England like the old days,
and you start looking around. The Chiefs aren't really the Chiefs.
The Bills aren't what they've been, The Ravens aren't what
they've been. Cincinnati is not going to make the tournament.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
It is wide open if you're any team We talk
about the patient, but if you're any team DJ, the
only thing you're trying to do is just get a
dancing a ticket to because if you get a ticket
to the dance, anybody can win this because there's not
a prohibitive favorite in the AFC.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
From Denver's there, but they don't have that experience. They
got a great defense, but the offense is in. I mean,
for every team has a fatal flaw.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
There's not really a complete team in the AFC, whereas
in the NFC it's.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
A little different. It's a little more stacked.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, so now this is a great time if you're
the Patriots, I mean, you're might grabe. You can stand
in front of the team say hey, guys, we can
go we can go win this thing. If we continue
to progress, we can win this thing at the end.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
What's your panic level with JJ mccarthinking is they got
handled a little bit by the Packers. It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Like so here's what I'll say, Like, because we scouted before,
like social media was a thing. Man as a front
office exec, now you have to be so convicted in
your place because the noise is louder than ever before.
And with JJ McCarthy, I think we still have to
remember this is his rookie season. In essence, he didn't
play last year, off season whatever, So he's six seven
(06:41):
games in and look, they're gonna be some moments.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I think.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
The big thing you're Kevin O'Connell. You're the organization man.
You got to find a way to kind of weather
the storm, and you got to find a way to
get everyone on board while helping the young quarterback develop.
The only way he's gonna get better, he has to
go through the struggle. You can't pull him out and
your thinking that it's going to get better. You got
to stand firm in there, and he has to stand
Tanto's down and find a way to get to the
(07:06):
other side, because once he gets to the other side,
these lessons are going to help him. But he just
has to do it. So I'm not panicked about it.
I just know it's kind of part of the process.
But that's also me saying it without a Viking's affiliation.
And there's nothing that I have right noticed, I say,
hey have more patients. They're in a win now mode
based on their roster, and the fan base is clamoring
(07:26):
for them to go on.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
So I was thinking back to that draft, right and
you got those six quarterbacks that go towards the top
of the draft and the top half of the first round,
and odds are just they are what they are. Everybody
everybody needed. So I was thinking of the like the knocks,
if you're going to say, what were the fears of
those quarterbacks? So Caleb was too much off schedule right,
(07:48):
and he's improved that big time from last year to
this year. So that's great to see Jad and Daniels.
To be honest with you, it was more of the
frame and like, is this guy built for the NFL
to be able to hold up? Now? He held up
the first year they went to the conference championship game
and this year he's been on the shelf. So that
durability is was the concern and has raised its head
a little bit this year. Drake Drake was okay, trying
(08:11):
to be trying to be too much like trying to
be a little bit too much Superman like, trying to
make hero plays, and he's he's been able to make
the magical plays without the mistakes. Like he's found I mean,
he's found kind of nirvana here this year with the
way that he's put it all together. But that was
probably the knocker the concern there, Pennix, What was it? Buck?
It was a durability. The guy has been heard his
(08:31):
whole career and here we are again with another acl
Like that's a major that's a major issue. Bo Nicks
was which bone Nicks are you getting? You're getting the
Auburn bon Knicks you're getting the Oregon bone knicks and
then maybe he's hit his head on the ceiling. Maybe
he's kind of maxed out. That was the question on him,
And then JJ McCarthy was he just hadn't played a lot.
He didn't played a lot. They didn't ask him to
(08:52):
throw it a lot, like he's young. Like this is
kind of like the unknown. So if we're looking at
all of these, the two that would be the most
concerning for me going forward would be Panix with his
durability concerns, and would be JJ with the lack of experience.
Would be the two. The two of these six I
would say, okay, at this point getting the hat over
(09:12):
halfway through year two, those would be the two I'd
be a little bit worried about.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
And it makes sense because one thing we do know,
like the injury history is significant. So first with Michael Pennix,
you talked about five season injuries now in eight of
the last season that he's played. Man, it's hard to
overcome that, and that's that's a part of his history,
that's part of his legacy, and that's always going to
be a part of the conversation for him going forward.
For JJ, McCarthy. It goes back to the truisms that
(09:37):
we know about the quarterback position. It is really hard
to be good at quarterback in the National Football League
when you don't have a lot of starts in college,
and he didn't have a lot of starts.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
He was going to take time to develop.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
But we are learning in this league no one has
the patience to wait for developmental players. And maybe they
can figure out a way to scheme it up and
to trick it up until he kind of catches up
with the speed of the game. But this was always
going to be the struggle. Bo Nicks has significant stars.
Jayde Daniels had significant stars. Kavi Williams was a three
year star like everybody else had experienced. He didn't, And
(10:11):
so what we're hoping on is that he can hit
and figure it out. I just don't know if they
have enough time to wait on him to catch up
with the rest of the team.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah. No, it'll be interesting to follow that quarterback class,
you know, years down the road to see how it
all pans out for him. Uh, it was what's the difference,
Why is it? Why is it working for Drake?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Because Drake didn't have He only had two years experience,
Like the experience was comparable between the two.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
They put the game on his shoulder. That that that
Carolina team even when they had a good back, that
good backs, that that offense you watched him every week.
That that ran through Drake and he had monster He
had a monster season the year before for year. Yeah,
first year for sure Carolina. That that offense JJ McCarthy.
I mean everybody go, okay, the Alabama game, like you
can find a game here or there, but that that
(10:58):
team did not run through JJ McCarthy. That team ran
to the defense in the run game.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, he had more moments, So he had moments of
having to be the game changer where Drake may had
to own on the game. This goes through me. I
am not managing this team. This is my show. Let's
go get in.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah, it was, you know, to use the acting thing
like he was the leading man and JJ McCarthy was
a supporting actor. So you know, that's just it is
where it is, and we'll see how it goes going forward.
But obviously Drake is he's in a great place. They
put a good group around him and coaches and players,
and he's he's taken off and and right now you'd
say he's the best of the bunch of this entire class.
(11:35):
But interesting to see the playoff experience you're going to get.
Caleb's got a good chance to make the playoffs this year.
We talked about Jaye Daniels in the playoffs last year.
Drake's going to be in the playoffs this year. Oh
Nicks last year and this year most likely. So again,
the two guys that you worry about are JJ and Pennox.
We'll see you know what happens with them going forward
(11:55):
if anything changes there. All right, Buck, let's pause for
a second and we'll be right back a couple more results.
I wanted to get to you on here. We didn't
talk about your Jags. Actually we did talk a little
bit about your jags finding a way to eque out
and uh a little bit.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I gonna ask you.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I want to, I want to.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
I want to ask you just because I feel like
I'm too close to the Trevor Lawrence situation. So I
want to ask you as an ounsider, because you saw
him a couple of weeks ago with the charges. You've
seen him obviously when he was coming out. You've heard
about him when he was a freshman at Clemson. He
leads him to the Natty and all that other stuff,
like what are your thoughts? Like, we're five years in
and he is still like polarizing when people have this
(12:37):
discussion on who he is and what he's going to
be as a franchise player.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
So I just remember when I was a kid, You're
playing Little league and they would tell you like you
just want you want it so bad. But you remember
them saying like, hey, hey, you're I can see your
white knuckles. You are squeezing the life out of the bat.
Like relaxed loose. He plays to me like somebody whose
(13:02):
shoulders are scrunched up, Like it's just he's very he's
very tight. He's not he's I don't know. That's what
I thought. Just watching him. I thought, Okay, they can
scheme some things and give him some things and he
can hit it. But I did not see a guy
who was playing confident, relaxed loose. It just didn't. It
just didn't look like the same guy that I saw.
I saw him playing in college multiple times, and that
(13:24):
was a more confident version of who he is.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
So I gonna ask you this because I wanted in
then to get to the conversation that Liam Cohen had
with him about just let it rip. Defensive minded coaches,
defensive coaches or some coaches teach ball security first, play
making second. As a quarterback and someone who's been that,
how does that change your misset if someone is always
(13:48):
telling you, like right before you break down the ball, hey, hey,
take care of the ball. So to go from that
to now have someone to stell you, ay man, let
it go. We can live with an inner option two.
How hard is it for you to do the brain flip,
even from scaling it down and being conservative, to know
a literate be more aggressive.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah, to me, it's why you almost have that mental coach,
you know, someone a psychologist you can talk to, because
I firmly believe in that you can have a It's
like when you you know, we talked about the golf stuff.
You never want to think don't hit it in the water,
don't hit it in the trap, don't hit it at
a bounce. So you want to think I'm attacking. This
is where I'm going. I can see it, I can
visualize it, I'm gonna get it there. And it's an
(14:30):
aggressive mindset. I don't think you're ever going to be
successful at that position if you're passive and if you're
if you're scared, you know, if you if you're so
worried about turn the ball over, make a mistake. And
that's organizations have failed a lot of quarterbacks by beating
that into their head. You know. I think that's I
think that's a major issue. It's tough to overcome too
when you've been programmed that way.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, because I think that's where he's at and that's
where he's trying to come out of. And I would
say watching it this week against the Cardinals, as you know, man,
it's hard when you turn it over four times when
you have three interceptions, but to keep throwing, I would
say that might have been the breakthrough in terms of
he never let it, he never scaled it back. The
(15:09):
throat that he made to Parker Washington in the end
zone was a big time throw, and for him to
continue to make those throws, I think he speaks to
him maybe beginning to turn the corner in terms of
being a guy that can play free and loose and
go after it while having some charnovers. Because some guys
you just have to know Hey, don't turn the ball
over like this is you bake that into the planet.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Understand it.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
But I think he has to play to the line
or to the edge for the team to maximize who
they can be with him.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I think there's different turnovers though. I think interception wise,
like I saw Philip Rivers throw a lot of interceptions
covering him with the Chargers over the years, but it
was always I'm going, I'm attacking, you know, I mean,
like it was an aggressive mistake. It wasn't a h
you know, kind of a not a confident throw and
the ball might take off on you and you get
(15:58):
some picks Philip, and Philip live with it. He just
his chin strap and that way and that way in
one air out the other. Like he moved on. And well,
I mean like that's because I was thinking about it
with with Donald, Like Donald's throwing some interceptions. But Donald,
what I've been impressed with him this year is that, yeah,
he's had he's had a game like that and then
(16:19):
he just flushes it and he didn't affect him and
he's still attacking, he's still pushing the ball down the field.
So I think within that game, you're discussing maybe that
is a good sign for him going forward that he
was able to stay on the attack a little bit.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yeah, that's a good point with Donald and even on
Monday night watching Brod Perdy throw three interceptions, like how
hard is it to keep firing when you do have
some turnovers and some of them are bad, some of
them are you know, deflected balls. But can you just
pick the ball up and continue to go after it?
It's one of those things we talk about with quarterbacks.
I need to see him have a little diversity in college.
(16:51):
What do they look like when they throw an interception?
What does the next few passes look like right after
the interception? Do they scale it back or do they
go right back to it and they're just as aggressive
as they were previously.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Well, are you surprised at all the Baltimore's back in
first place after that one?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I no, because I think we talked about it. Here's
what I will say about Baltimore. You know their organization.
I would give John Harbor a lot of credit. When
the noise is loud and people are talking about all
the changes, he just stayed the course. They made some
changes defensively, obviously, moving call Hamilton down in the box.
They got the trade, Malachot Stars goes back to playing
a little more center fielder action, the defenses beginning to
(17:28):
come together and keep everything in front, and then offensively,
man when Lamar Jackson back, it changes a lot of.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
What they do.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
I think the main thing for the Ravens is they
lost some games early that you wouldn't think would shake
their confidence, but it shook their confidence. Derrick Henry fumbling early,
some of those things. But DJ they're a favorite to
win the division. Now, they're playing better than Pittsburgh. They're
a dangerous team. They're more dangerous team than Pittsburgh. Yeah,
it took them a while to find their way, but
(17:56):
they're all the way back.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah. I an interesting thing is, you know, they win
that game, and I think Lamar was great. Derrick Henry
average three yards of carry to get in the end
zone twice. I don't think that they've found themselves offensively,
you know, for all to talk about the defense struggling earlier,
I don't know this offense is in any rhythm in sync.
But again, in a wide open AFC, if they get
(18:18):
in they've been in there. They've been there, done that before,
and I think there definitely is another level from where
they're playing right now that they can get to.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Well, here's the thing that I think we'll talk about
when we get to the tournament. For your team to win,
you have to have a quarterback that can give you
the magic in the fourth quarter. So when I look
at the teams that are sizing up in there and
we talk about the quarterback position or whatever, we know
Josh Allen can go to another level. We know that
Patrick Mahomes can go to another level. Lamar Jackson can
(18:46):
go to another level. The teams that get in you
better have a quarterback that can live in the fourth
quarter matchic because if not these games, because you talk
about it being wide open in the shootouts when they
defers the quarterback play, who has the best quarterback in
the tournament, those are gonna be the guys that can
win it, Yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
And then they can definitely do that last one that
we didn't touch on the other day that we'll get
to here, Atlanta takes care of New Orleans twenty four
to ten.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Interesting, right, Kirk Cousins, we were done with it that one. Yeah,
we're done with Kirk Cousin. Don't want kok cursin to
do it. They say they can do it. They give
them full week or prep and this offense looks like
the offense that you expected to see. They push it
down the field, they run it, able to do some things.
And I don't know how long Kirk can sustain this level.
(19:35):
But you can't tell me that the offense didn't look
different with him at quarterback, Like there's just something that
his experience brings to this offense. With the weapons that
they have, then maybe they can do it. And they're
I mean, they're off the pace significantly now, But I
do wonder can Kirk Cousins not only get them in
the mix, but maybe potentially save their jobs with the
way that he plays down the stretch New Orleans.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
And we'll see if they'll do it now. But I
just to me, and they're going to have the top.
They might have a second pick. They could end up
having the first pick when it's all said and done.
But to me, it's like anybody over thirty, like at
this point in time, let's move on from all of them,
Like let's let's let's finally do the rebuild that they've
needed to do the last couple of years. Strip this
thing down man.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
And younger, fast and more athletic, more dynamic, like go
all the way in. But it takes a full commitment
from everybody to understand what it could look like when
you play all these young guys, like you have to plan,
but DJ, you.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Got to plan. The only way, the only way they get.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Experience is you have to plan, and you have to
be able to live through their mistakes. If you're unwilling
to live through the mistakes, your team will never be
what it could be.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
With the young guys.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
They have to play and you have to be okay
with them playing.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, I just I don't know. There's not a lot
of pillars here that they can take with them to
build off of going into next year. When you look
at some of their key players, you know, it's just
the bande excited there. But Cam Jordan's leading them a
four and a half sacks, Granderson's got four and a
half sacks. I mean to me, they need some juice, man,
(21:06):
They need some young guys who can run. How long
have you how long have we had this conversation about
this a couple of years. Just really all have to
do it, man, Like a five year conversation about the
Saints needing to get younger, more dynamic every year when
we get to mock graft season, we talk about putting
past ruses and all this there, and yet there's still
the same like, like, I feel like this is one
(21:29):
where you have to if you're a general manager, you
have to like cut them all and kill them.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Wore goes a can't go on vacation and he comes
back and everyone has been cutting the gum and you're like, oh,
I don't have anybody.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
It's not a one year fix. And Tyler Shucks made
some nice throws, can move around a little bit, but
I don't know if that's the answer for them. So
a lot of work to be done there. Do you
want to remind everybody coming up? The NFL continues to
honor and commemorate the late John Madden with the fourth
annual John Madden Thanksgiving Celebration on Thursday, November twenty seventh.
(22:01):
A special NFL produced Madden Hallmark will kick off each
broadcast conveying what Thanksgiving meant to him in his own words,
So very cool able to honor John Madden and all
the heat meant to those Thanksgiving games, and we got
a good slate of games. Looking forward to to just
get some good food, hanging out with the family and
watching some football. There's nothing better on a Thursday, no question.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
No nothing.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
This should be fun man, I'm looking forward to it
all right. Well, there you go, quick one today. I
hope you guys enjoy it and we will see you
next time. Right here on, move the sticks.
Hosts And Creators
Daniel Jeremiah
Bucky Brooks
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Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.