May 29, 2025 • 30 mins
On this episode of Move the Sticks, Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks kick things off by diving into the importance of culture building during the offseason. Bucky shares insight on the Jaguars’ approach, highlighting how their competitive, team-oriented workouts are helping build chemistry while keeping the game fun. The guys discuss how crucial it is to strike the right balance between structure and enjoyment to foster real buy-in from players at the NFL level.
Next, DJ and Bucky examine the growing role of technology in scouting. They break down how advanced tools are streamlining the scouting process and helping teams create more efficient, detailed player evaluations.
To wrap things up, the duo shifts their focus to the league’s most quarterback-friendly pass catchers. They go through the wide receivers and tight ends who led the league in yards after catch and unpack what makes them so effective with the ball in their hands.
Move the Sticks is a part of the NFL Podcasts Network.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now move the sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
What's up?
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Everybody? Welcome to move the sticks?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
DJ?
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Buck with you?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Buck?
Speaker 1 (00:11):
It looks nice where you are right now? Where are
we right now?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
DJ, I'm in the studio down in Jackson. I'm in
a facility.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
They use the facility to podcast, and so you see
all the Jaguars background. I tried to make it where
I was a non biased person, So I try to
keep the logos out.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
But that's where I match.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
No, I tell you don't. You don't need to do that.
You can have the logos out there. We know, we
know you're calling it man this time of year? Are you?
Are you a play by play guy in the spring?
I'm just so not. I don't know where you are
on that, but I just I've learned over the years,
it's some so much hype on the good has been wrong,
(00:48):
and so much worry and concern about the bad has
been wrong that I tend to just say, like, all right,
are there any contracts coming our way? Is everybody healthy?
Like I try not to get too much involved in
what's going on on the field right now.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
No, like trying to fall in love with the hype bunnies,
the people that you hear about during this time of year.
You hear a handful of names and people talk about
are sensational throughout the course of camp. But what I've
grown to realize this isn't the real ball that we
will talk about because without pads, without the contact element
of the game, it's all or not. This is like
(01:21):
seven on seven that you see in high school, people
running around and doing things. So I say it matters
in terms of the team building part of it. It
matters in terms of the installation the coaches and players learning.
It matters in terms of creating the culture that you
want to have. But in terms of the evaluation product
part of it, Man, you can't really evaluate your team
(01:44):
until you get in the training camp and start really
putting pads on.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, I think over the years this is kind of
changed too, because they've really dialed back in terms of
what you can do, you know, one on ones, you know,
any type of physical activity. So I think, more than else,
is just kind of getting young guys, new guys acclimated.
You know, I just understand where our meeting rooms are,
our routine, here's our warm up routine, you know, just
kind of get them kind of understanding that maybe let's
(02:07):
focus a little bit more on learning, you know, in
terms of the scheme and those things, versus any type
of the physical stuff that you could actually evaluate.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I do have something that's interesting because I want you
to know because last year you were with the Charges
that they underwent a coaching change, and everyone who knows
Jim Harbor understands that he is always going to bring
a top of the line strength coach with him and
that's going to be a big part of the culture
changing process in Jacksonville. They're doing some things that when
(02:37):
it comes to the strength and conditioning program DJ that
almost remind me of a collegiate type feel. So they
have this thing where today they were competing in the
Iron Jaguar Games, where they've had these teams kind of
split up, you know, according to stuff, and they have
various competitions that they do. So it may be like
a like a bar hang competition where guys are hanging
(02:59):
on the pull up bar see who can do it
in their points. Teams get points. They have relay races
in those things. Because we've been I guess in the
Pro Game for so long. How much do you think
that culture building that takes place in this weight room
matters at the pro level where we know it really
matters at the collegiate level.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah, I think it's still there's still an edge to
be found there, you know, And you mentioned the Chargers
like they do Jim Harba's out there doing tire flip
flips last year. You know, they had like that kind
of overtime period that they would do it every practicing.
It's kind of their way of bonding and putting an
extra work and going above and beyond. And I think
there is something too that I think the whole thing though,
is you better have buy in, and you're not going
(03:39):
to get buy in if you don't have credibility. So
I think it would be hard for someone to come
in even as in a like if you were even
an accomplished college coach, you better come in there and
earn the respect of the veterans before you start doing
some stuff that might be viewed as more collegiate as
opposed to what historically has been the norm at the
pro level.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Like it's funny because I like Richiano. He's the former
Buffalo Bill strength coach he's taken over as the head
of the program down in Jacksonville, and it's not necessarily
collegiate in terms of I would just say it's competitive.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I think that's the best way.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
And you know, I was listening to a podcast Dan
Quinn on he was talking about competitiveness being baked into
everything that they do, and I was watching the team
and I just had to remember, like, no matter what
guys get paid, like, this is still a kid's game
and it still needs to have some of that element
in it.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
It has to be fun, it has to be engaging.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
You have to find a way to kind of tap
into that imagination and a natural competitiveness that every play
in the league has.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
It's just what's the secret sauce to unlocking that without
it filling hokey pokey or collegiate where guys are like,
what are we doing? Like this doesn't make any sense?
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Yeah, And it's it's become challenging in an era where
so many guys have their own they have their own routine,
they have their own program, they have their own coaches
that they work with back in their hometown. Maybe it's
group of players that get together and do their thing
to get them to all buy in. That's my whole thing.
I almost think in terms of the benefits of the
physical you know, the competition and even just getting bigger, faster, stronger.
(05:11):
I think when you go to the if you were
to tour around and go to these practices, you'll see
which teams have complete buy in, like of like, hey,
you just tell me what we're doing. I'm doing it,
no questions asked. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
And I also think some of it may be geographical,
like so you and I are affiliated with teams that
are in like nice locations, right Jacksonville, the weather is
always nice. So they were telling me that it was
almost one hundred percent of attendance for the all season program.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I'm sure if I asked you the same about the Chargers.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
I think where Sean Slater might have been the only
one that wasn't there, there's.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Pretty much understanding.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
And now some of that is driven by like why
wouldn't you want to be in southern California where it's
always nice and sunning those things, and so you get
a better.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Buy in and if your guys are around.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
To me, when it makes sense from the player's standpoint,
because if any injury happens. You're protected because you're on
the facility rounds, and so when you think about like workers,
confident all the other stuff, like you're there, whereas if
you're on your own, all the risk is on you
and NFI you know, non football related injuries and those things.
So it's just to me, I still believe that in
(06:13):
the off season, as much as we talk about the
work that takes place between the lines, a lot of
the chemistry and camaraderie exists because of the bonds that
you form through competing in the weight room, but then
spending all that time together away from the facility because
it's a natural part of Hey, what we're doing after
we leave here. Let's go eat, you know, let's go
(06:33):
hang out, let's go bowl, let's do some other stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Were you a basketball guy off season?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Oh? I loved it.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Like we used to compete so much, man Like, it
was always a big part of what we did. I
want to play off season basketball. I know the coaches, well,
it changed when I was in Green Bay. We had
a basketball court in the.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
State, We had a basketball court in Baltimore, like, so
that was.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Always a big part of the deal.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
We're going to play half court, a four court that
was a part of the cross training and whatever.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
So yeah, I'm a big part of it.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Obviously, you want guys to be careful to not put
themselves doing unnecessary riskto but yeah, there's some benefit to playing.
I just think anytime you have the guys together and
they can compete and build more chemistry, I think it
helps when we get into the season.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
I'll tell you about the time I got called in
the principal's office in Baltimore on that by the way,
oh boy, what we had. I don't remember if it
was a pre draft visit or it was a free
agent visit, but we had a player visit that was
not on our team. Okay, and this is year one
for me in the NFL. This is year one as
an office guy, as a personnel assistant. Well, we would
(07:38):
always go down and lunch. And this is at the
old Baltimore So this was like the Baltimore Colts facility
before they moved into the Castle that if you've seen
the Ravens, Yeah, really nice. This was the old dumpy
facility that the Baltimore Cult used to be in and
so it was a turf weight room buck but there
was a. There was a hoop in there, and we
used to go in there and hoop in there on
the turf like that old school like you know carpet
(07:59):
that was, you know, not not not like the grassy
looking field turf stuff that you see now. Well, we
used pay hooping there all the time. So we had
a guy visit and we were kind of giving him
the tour. I think it might have been washed me
and Jeremi Washburn might have been like giving him tour.
There's some other guys in there. And then he wanted
he wanted to hoop, so let's go, let's get go.
Oh yeah, let's go. So we were hooping with this
(08:21):
guy who's not under contract with us, who if for
some reason, and I'm so young and dumb, I don't not,
I don't thinking about this. This guy gets hurt. We
are in big trouble, big big trouble, and so somebody
I don't even I think it got I think somebody
saw us and then ran upstairs. And then it was
immediately like, hey, we don't do that. You cannot do
(08:43):
that ever, ever, ever, ever do that again. The guy
I want, Hey that when you're twenty, When you're twenty
five years old and can still hoop a little bit,
and somebody says they want to hoop like you.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Go get the buckets.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
You're so look, live and learn, Buck, That was a
That was the last time I ever played basketball with
someone who wasn't under contract with the team.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
That is.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Look, I understand, and I understand the competitor in you,
and I understand the competitor and the player that was
in the buildings.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
It's the risk, though. It's the risk.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Well, look back on it as someone who has like
half of a brain now and who has spent you know,
a lot of time around this game and has common sense.
Just like, what an idiot? What the heck was I thinking?
Not the not the smartest move I've ever made. That's
for sure, a lot of dumb moves over the years, Buck,
But that might be top ten.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
That's okay that I mean, look, that's that's all right.
It kind of happens. Get that for it out.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
It is what it is. I want to get in
just a minute here. I wanted to get to you
on a stat and some players that jumped off the
screen when I was going through some of the more
advanced numbers from last year's NFL season and have a
conversation about that before I do.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Though.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
One of the things I love about our conversations is
we kind of get into scouting stuff and you know,
I don't know, there's many programs that can do that
and talk about the little little nuances and scouting and
how things change. And we've talked and I think we've
you know, been pretty close to the forefront and advocating
for virtual reality, I think before it became as influential
(10:16):
as it was in different ways things. Yeah, we were
talking about that years ago, and then of course Jack
and Rouccie and that company took it and Ran and
Jaden Daniels being kind of the poster child for how
to properly utilize that tool. But one of the things
we were talking about off air, and I want to
just get onto it here, is that for those who
don't know how scouting works, when you're an area scout,
(10:39):
you're on the college side of scouting. You go out
on the road and you are you're constantly driving, especially
if you're in the West where we were for a while,
like you are long drives. You're getting to a school,
you get there early in the morning, you know, seven
o'clock in the morning, and then through the course of
the day, you're you're getting a chance to meet with
a bunch of different people. Coaches, you know, you look
(11:00):
at strength staff, the training staff, you're talking to academic people,
all these different meetings you have throughout the day. You
can try and get some tape in as well, which
is a lot easier now because everybody has it all
on their iPads or devices, mobile devices, so that they
can do that in their hotel. When we didn't really
have that luxury back to the day. We had the
most of the tape we got watched inside the facility.
(11:20):
But then you get out to practice. You body type guys,
you'll watch players move around before you get kicked out
of practice. And then you get in your car and
you might have a four or five hour drive, get
a bite to eat, get a workout in. You're in
your hotel buckets ten o'clock at night, and now you've
got to write all the background information and on these
players in your computer. And then we used to have
to write summaries where you'd have to summarize in a
(11:42):
pretty chunky, wordy document of the player and write them up.
And we were talking about this, and you, you know,
were filling me in on some of the folks you
talk to around the league that they're kind of getting
away from having to actually write the report. And I
want to get into all the different areas of how
this can affect scouting. But I think when I heard it, Buck,
(12:04):
my ears perked up, and it's one of those things
we're like, gosh, why didn't somebody think about this a
long time ago?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah, DJ, one of the frustrations that we used to
have when it came to scouting. I think you and
I've always talked about this is just the wordiness of
the reports that we used to have to compose, and
maybe some of the redundancy of the information that we
were inputting. And even though we both believe in the
thoroughness of the reporting, like the background information and the
medical stuff that we would get on the school call
(12:31):
and then the evaluation of the player, you can get
bogged down in the details when it comes to just
inputting and doing the word processing in those things. And
when you are a road scout and you're having to
drive from one school to another, and the drive may
be a couple hours, and then you get to the hotel,
and it may take you thirty to forty five minutes
of report. Time on tasks can prevent you from being
(12:54):
efficient and effective and the process.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
And one of the things that I'm learning.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
And talking to people around the league is that some
people are changing their I guess input systems to where
it's a little more drag and drop, a little more
slaughter oriented, where you're not having to spend as much
time inputting the verbiage and more of the time is on, Hey,
let's put the numbers in the digits that can be calculated,
(13:20):
give us averages and those things from an analytical standpoint,
and then a what's your one or two line aer
like what's your summary on the player? And to me
when I came across it, I was like, man, this
is ingenious because just time on task and just the
efficiency that it allows you to operate with as a scout. Look, man,
I just think it's one of the things that we
(13:41):
can do now. Thats Look, it is drastically different than
the way things have always been done in the past,
but I do believe it's a way to take some
of those past attributes and things that we want to
have in every report.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
But do it in a more efficient manner.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, and to give people another idea there. So, say
you go into a school, you know, and you're a
power for school you're going to have nowadays, especially because
you're having to keep an eye on the underclass and
their draft eligible you might have fifteen to twenty reports
that you're writing now. Of those fifteen to twenty, let's
say on average of the school, they might be six,
(14:19):
six to eight and would be pretty pretty standard. And
obviously you get into Ohio State in Alabama, you might have,
you know, these fifteen draftable type players you know that
are at least considered draftable, which is a lot of work.
But then you also what would bog you down as
you be in these schools and I might have I
might go into let's say, like I go into Utah,
(14:40):
just a random school, and they might have I might
have to write up fifteen reports, but maybe only three
of them are real draftable guys. Well, it still takes
you a heck of a long time to write up
twelve players that you have as free agents. And we
used to always joke about it, and I'm sure we
joked about it talking on the road all those years,
Like man, I need the generic. Give me the generic slow,
(15:02):
the big slow receiver report. Like I wish I just
had a generic where I could just pick it, Like, Hey,
this guy, he's a productive Yeah, he's a productive college player.
He's got some size and ball skills. He just has
no quickness, he has no burst, he has no play speed.
He's not going to get draft. He's not gonna run
fast enough to get himself drafted. Well, I'm still having
to go through check out, check the boxes, right descriptions
(15:24):
of his body type, right descriptions of all of his
position specific attributes, and then I'm having to write a
summary on him. Now, it might be more brief. You
could get away with being more brief on a free agent,
but still you're writing summaries. Whereas now it's like almost
you're creating kind of these generic profiles and you can
kind of say, Okay, this guy fits this body type profile,
(15:45):
this athleticism profile. Is a free agent and like you
were saying, to slide, slide, slide, and then boom, I'm
off to the next one. You talk about saving some time, Now,
Holy cow, I.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Mean, why wouldn't you just love it? Right?
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Because I think it allows you to do what the
important part of the job is not only getting the information,
but the evaluation. I think if you have to spend
less time worrying about just I would say some of
the busy work part of it and more of the
time on.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
The evaluation part.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
I think we can make better decisions and better overall
evaluations on players by doing that. And like I'm a
big fan of it, I'm a big fan in the
efficient process. It's one of the things that we talked
about that people discovered over COVID in terms of, hey,
do we have to do all of this troutpo? Can
we do some of these things at home? And I
know we're a time where people are really trying to
(16:35):
mandate the return to office, but I do believe some
of the remote stuff that we learned during our time
during the pandemic has helped scouts and people evaluate and
be more efficient with their time and all those other
things and so much of the job. I would say
the hard part of the job has little to do
with the football part of it, but more to do
with man I got to get from dispot to death
(16:57):
spot by tomorrow and all of that. If you can
help the area, guys out by doing some things that
make it I would say, like scout friendly, I believe
you can eventually get to the point where you make
the process easier, where you can make better decisions because
you're getting better evaluation from guys that aren't tired but
are really locked in on the task at hand.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Do you remember being in the room and this happened
all the time. People would get called on the carpet.
He's like, hey, man, your grade and your description they
don't miss match. It doesn't match like you gave him
a high grade, but when I read the summary that
you wrote, it doesn't match up. I think they're eliminating
this by doing this because they're connecting them saying like, okay,
here's the description you drag and drop. Well, that description
(17:38):
comes with this grade, because that's what history has shown us,
that players that are like this are this number value
and so no mismatch. I think I actually think it's
really really smart man.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Yeah, because because DJ like, okay, So let's think about it.
The reality behind the situation. You talked about going to
a big school, and let's say back in the day,
USC was always one of the bigger schools in terms
of number of prosps. Well, the general rule is add
a day per seven scouts per seven prospects is like
a day. So if there's seven on offense and seven
(18:11):
on defense, that's a two day visit at a minimum. Well,
when you have that kind of workload when it comes
to writing reports, obviously you can't write all of those
reports at night. And what happens there's a carryover. So
the guy that I saw on Tuesday, I'm in that
right about to Wednesday. But guess what happened on Wednesday.
I saw seven more guys on Wednesday. That now clouds
(18:31):
my mind, and so my grade might be high on him.
But because it's been a day before I got to
the process of writing the report, the report doesn't always
match up. And that's some of the stuff that happens,
and that's how you get I won't say some of
the misses, but some of the non matching verbiage to
(18:52):
go with the grade, because the grade says you really
love the player, but your verbage doesn't.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
And some of that is because you can't.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Really remember all the the details that you had or
that you fell in love with the player when you
watched the player in real time.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah, when I was in. When I was in Baltimore
and in Cleveland, our thing was, Hey, they wanted you
to keep up with your reports as best you could.
Just make sure you're always sending something in, like you
need to send in a batch every Friday or what
have you.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, but every Friday was the day.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
I didn't necessarily have to have every player I watched
during that week done by that Friday, but it was like, hey,
you just kind of chipping away. And that's kind of
like I've told people the origin story of the name
Move the Sticks, which was they always fill Savage always
talk about, hey, every day advanced the ball just a
little bit more every day, as long as you're turning
something in and you keep moving it forward. And then
like say o, our ultimate date was December tenth, tenth
(19:44):
or fifth or whatever it would be. Now, you'd be
off the road at that point in time, and so
that last ten days, man, I'd be cranking out tons
of work and you might be catching up on somebody
you saw a month ago, like you know, that's a
long time. Then when I was in Philadelphia, we had
to have it every Friday by midnight from that week,
Like we were responsible for getting everything anything in yeah week.
(20:05):
But even with that, you know that I might have
I might be writing a player up at eleven o'clock
Friday night that I watched on Monday. And I've seen
eighty players since I saw that guy.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
You remember it?
Speaker 1 (20:17):
All that makes it challenging. So I think it's really smart.
And I think it also from a standpoint of being
able to run reports, be able to say like, hey,
are we off on this guy because all of us
in our reports had this, you know, this number, like
an eight on competitiveness out of ten or whatever skill
you want to use, or at nine or whatever. And
then now we can pull all those numbers and be like, okay, man,
(20:40):
we need to we need to put this guy up
a little bit higher. We all agree he has the
course stuff that we want.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Yeah, And I think the big challenge did you talk about,
like submitting those reports and getting reports in the thing
is that you were trying and do you stay like, hey,
if you can't get the what you used to call
them critical factors in yeah, like at least while it's
fresh in your mind right the summery.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yeah, because if.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
I write the summary, I can go back and fill
in the critical factors based on my Yeah, but if
I don't do anything, I don't put them in. Man.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
That is the recall is just really.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Hard unless you are an exceptional note taker and your
notes are so clear that you can open up the
notebook and see be like, oh, yeah, I remember I
like this play. Because if not, you have to rewatch
the player again to get another feel for what really
grows you to that thing. It just makes it a
very very difficult thing. And so from an efficiency process, man,
(21:32):
we just want to be efficient so we can be
really really good with everything.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah. No, it's I think it's kind of a game
changer there. So I want to have that little scouting discussion.
Let's take a quick break, Buck, come back. I've got
a stat and some names I wanted to throw at
you and get your thoughts on it right after this,
all right, So I was thinking of this, Buck, I
was thinking, what if we're in a league, at quarterback league,
(21:58):
and we're trying to make the offense and the whole
setup as quarterback friendly as possible to get the best
performance out of our players. I started thinking like, okay, well,
obviously we've talked about the three piece forever you got
the play call or you got the protection, you got
the play makers. And I started thinking, okay, well, still
a statistical league, so you know we want guys hopefully
you're going to throw for four thousand yards and touchdowns, this,
(22:18):
that and the other. So I thought, okay, well, who
is going to be your best friend then? And what
stat should I What did I want to look up
and look at? And I started thinking, man as someone
who didn't have a strong arm with that position, give
me run after catch. I want to see, like, who
are those best guys? Who are the guys that do
that better than anybody else? And I separated it with
wide outs and tight ends. So these are guys who
I think you could make a case are the most
(22:40):
quarterback friendly players in the league because of what they
did with the ball in their hands after you got
the ball in their hands. So these are the five
leaders last year, and then I want to get your
thoughts on them, but I'll just give you the names
here because a couple of them might surprise you. Last year,
Jamar Chase led the league yards after catch eight hundred
and three yards. Amongst the price Dj Moore, who remember
(23:03):
Dj Moore when he was coming out of college. That
was his emo, like he has been the same guy
from college to Carolina to Chicago. He was second with
six hundred and thirty yards. How about this one? The
third in the league in yards after the catch last year?
Khalil Shakir for the Buffalo Bools Buffalo about six hundred
and twenty two yards after him, a guy that you
(23:24):
could probably peek over your shoulder and find Brian Thomas
Junior as a rookie six hundred yards after the catch
last year, and then Ceedee Lamb would round out the
top five with five hundred and sixty six yards. But
when you see those names so Chase Moore, Shakir, BTJ Lamb,
like what stands out to you? Do they have any
Is there any commonality? Because there's a lot of different
body types and speeds and all those things. But when
(23:46):
you look at those guys, what is there anything connects them?
Speaker 3 (23:50):
DJ to OL connected that I used to use would
be pume returnability, returnability in those things, but those guys
don't necessarily qualify under that. I think the one thing
that we can talk about all of them and watching
their tape, we've always talked about contact, balance and ball
in hand strength, like in terms of their ability to
break tackles, and strength that they displayed when they're in
(24:12):
the open field, like they run through arm tackles and
they're very, very difficult to get down. The thing about
Jamar Chase, when you look at him, if you watch
him play, and then if you've seen any of the
stuff that he does in the off season, strong and
explosive is a big part of his DNA. When I
think about Cedee Lamb, the running skills that he used
to display at Oklahoma doesn't surprise me that he's in there.
You talked about DJ Moore and how DJ Moore was
(24:34):
at Maryland Brian Thomas Junior, to me is a bit
of a surprise because it took them a while to
kind of figure it out, but then they started making
a concerted effort to give him the ball. DJ so
much of playing wide receiver. Will talk about route running
and all that other stuff, But to me, the best
way to enhance a quarterback is if you can at
least have one catch and run specialists in the core,
(24:56):
someone that you can get the ball to and they
can turn a short pass into a big game.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
It helps the quarterback.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Because those short passes are high completion percentage passes, but
they have a big yield on that. That's exactly what
you want for a quarterback as he's beginning to hit
these layups and those layups are turning into big play opportunities.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah, I was looking at it thinking, you've got different
heights in here, You've got some different weights, you know,
somewhat different body types. You've got guys who've run much
faster than other guys on here. But if I was
going to say, what's the what's the thread? All five
of these guys have exceptional quickness and exceptional play strength
like that. To me, when we think of yards after catch,
(25:37):
sometimes you might just think, oh, it's the fastest guys,
it's Tyreek Hill, you know, the fastest guys in the league.
To me, it's more about the quickness and the play
strength and the combination of the two. And it's interesting
that they come in different packages.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Yeah, so so, And here's the thing, because I feel
like we've talked about the basketball theme basketball team theme
for a while, like having different types, different skill sets
or whatever. But DJ, if you'r a guy can't extend
the player, he only gets what is drawn up.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
It's hard to live in that offense.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
You put so much pressure on the offensive coordinator and
the quarterback to like everything has to be perfect. You
give me nothing outside of what's drawn up. It's hard
to live in a game like that. It's just really
really hard to do that. So I am glad that
you dug into that because I think it's eye opening
to see the guys that are producing the big plays
(26:31):
with the ball in their hands, and it's not derived
just on the air yards.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
It's really the yards have to catch.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, and you know different quarterbacks there too. When you
look at the quarterbacks associated with those wide receivers. To me,
it gives you hope if you're Chicago, because they've done
a nice job of even getting him more guys. I
think Lovelin's going to be a good run after catch players,
so you add him in there. Roma Dunese was good
after the catch in college, so I think they've got
a nice mixture of guys are gonna be able to
do some things with the ball in their hands. With
(26:58):
Ben Johnson at the helm call and play, so that'll
be fun. The tight ends run after catch or yards
after catch. Rookie Bowers best in the league last year
eighteen yards. That would have put him. That would have
put him as the fourth receiver, like forget tight ends,
it would put him even as the fourth receiver. Trey
McBride was next to five point fifty nine, George Kittle
still doing it, five hundred and thirty six yards, John
(27:21):
Smith five hundred and twenty one yards last year, and
then Kelsey there was a big drop off from four
to five. He had three hundred and eighty three yards.
But you're looking at Bowers. Darn near doubled up Kelsey
in yards after the catch last year.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
We look, man, anyone that watched him at Georgia and
talked to the people around Georgia, they talked about him
being the best athlete, the best player, the best playmaker.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
That they had.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
And remember at george they gave him the ball in
a variety of ways. Jes sweeps, screens, everything he touched it.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
The Raiders.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Just his success there was just a continuation of what
he's always done. And as a young, dynamic playmaker who
didn't have much around him, Man, it's only going to
get better for him in the league.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
We've sung.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Look, we watched Travis Kelce dominate the league for years
as a catch and run playmaker for the kan City Chiefs.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Well, now you talk.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
About a younger, more dynamic version of that in Las Vegas.
I expect Bowers to be at the top of the
list for years and years to come because he is
terrific with the ball in his hands.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
So I'm gonna ask you, then, Bowers as a rookie
led the league last year. We've got this rookie tight
end class. Do we see any of those guys a
year from now in the top five in terms of
what they do with the balder? Hans Tyler Warren is
with the Colts. Loveland we've mentioned is with the Bears.
You've got Mason Taylor's with the Jets. So there's some,
(28:40):
you know, some interesting players out there. Harold fan is
a good player. I'm excited to see what he does
and how he fits in alongside in Djoku with Cleveland.
That might be a reps opportunity thing there might not
help him, but some good tight ends. We see any
of those guys on this list next year?
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I think Mason Taylor has a great opportunity. I think
as you're building out this offense for Justin fields. We
talked remembered like Matt Draft and we always pair a
tied end with Justin Fiers because we talked about right
down the middle, it's the easiest throwing, the easiest completion
for the quarterback. Mason Taylor's now the beneficiary there, and
with Gary Wilson on the outside, you know he's gonna
come in double coverage. Look, there's gonna be plenty of
(29:14):
opportunities for Mason Taylor to make plays. I would bank
on him being in that conversation as one of the.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Athlete There you go, Well, this was a fun one man.
You got a chance to talk about some of the
scouting stuff as well as some quarterback friendly players in
this league. Gino Smith's gonna love throwing the ball to
Brock Bauers. Looking about Joe Burrow, how excited he is
to have that receiving core back. Look like that might
not be the case, but they figured it out. They
got it done. So Jamar Chase, it's gonna be hard
(29:41):
to give him a ton of attention when you got
to worry about the other guys they have in that offense.
So it'll be fun to watch. We'll keep an eye
on some other stats here as we go through the
offseason and see if we can't pull some other takeaways out
for you. But that's gonna do it. Buck enjoy your
time and Jville enjoy the rest of getting a chance
to watch some of this football that I just basically
said is not worth anything. So you enjoy that, make
(30:02):
the most of it, and I enjoy all your feedback.
We'll see you guys next time. Right here, I'll move
the sticks
And now move the sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
What's up?
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Everybody? Welcome to move the sticks?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
DJ?
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Buck with you?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Buck?
Speaker 1 (00:11):
It looks nice where you are right now? Where are
we right now?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
DJ, I'm in the studio down in Jackson. I'm in
a facility.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
They use the facility to podcast, and so you see
all the Jaguars background. I tried to make it where
I was a non biased person, So I try to
keep the logos out.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
But that's where I match.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
No, I tell you don't. You don't need to do that.
You can have the logos out there. We know, we
know you're calling it man this time of year? Are you?
Are you a play by play guy in the spring?
I'm just so not. I don't know where you are
on that, but I just I've learned over the years,
it's some so much hype on the good has been wrong,
(00:48):
and so much worry and concern about the bad has
been wrong that I tend to just say, like, all right,
are there any contracts coming our way? Is everybody healthy?
Like I try not to get too much involved in
what's going on on the field right now.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
No, like trying to fall in love with the hype bunnies,
the people that you hear about during this time of year.
You hear a handful of names and people talk about
are sensational throughout the course of camp. But what I've
grown to realize this isn't the real ball that we
will talk about because without pads, without the contact element
of the game, it's all or not. This is like
(01:21):
seven on seven that you see in high school, people
running around and doing things. So I say it matters
in terms of the team building part of it. It
matters in terms of the installation the coaches and players learning.
It matters in terms of creating the culture that you
want to have. But in terms of the evaluation product
part of it, Man, you can't really evaluate your team
(01:44):
until you get in the training camp and start really
putting pads on.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, I think over the years this is kind of
changed too, because they've really dialed back in terms of
what you can do, you know, one on ones, you know,
any type of physical activity. So I think, more than else,
is just kind of getting young guys, new guys acclimated.
You know, I just understand where our meeting rooms are,
our routine, here's our warm up routine, you know, just
kind of get them kind of understanding that maybe let's
(02:07):
focus a little bit more on learning, you know, in
terms of the scheme and those things, versus any type
of the physical stuff that you could actually evaluate.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I do have something that's interesting because I want you
to know because last year you were with the Charges
that they underwent a coaching change, and everyone who knows
Jim Harbor understands that he is always going to bring
a top of the line strength coach with him and
that's going to be a big part of the culture
changing process in Jacksonville. They're doing some things that when
(02:37):
it comes to the strength and conditioning program DJ that
almost remind me of a collegiate type feel. So they
have this thing where today they were competing in the
Iron Jaguar Games, where they've had these teams kind of
split up, you know, according to stuff, and they have
various competitions that they do. So it may be like
a like a bar hang competition where guys are hanging
(02:59):
on the pull up bar see who can do it
in their points. Teams get points. They have relay races
in those things. Because we've been I guess in the
Pro Game for so long. How much do you think
that culture building that takes place in this weight room
matters at the pro level where we know it really
matters at the collegiate level.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah, I think it's still there's still an edge to
be found there, you know, And you mentioned the Chargers
like they do Jim Harba's out there doing tire flip
flips last year. You know, they had like that kind
of overtime period that they would do it every practicing.
It's kind of their way of bonding and putting an
extra work and going above and beyond. And I think
there is something too that I think the whole thing though,
is you better have buy in, and you're not going
(03:39):
to get buy in if you don't have credibility. So
I think it would be hard for someone to come
in even as in a like if you were even
an accomplished college coach, you better come in there and
earn the respect of the veterans before you start doing
some stuff that might be viewed as more collegiate as
opposed to what historically has been the norm at the
pro level.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Like it's funny because I like Richiano. He's the former
Buffalo Bill strength coach he's taken over as the head
of the program down in Jacksonville, and it's not necessarily
collegiate in terms of I would just say it's competitive.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I think that's the best way.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
And you know, I was listening to a podcast Dan
Quinn on he was talking about competitiveness being baked into
everything that they do, and I was watching the team
and I just had to remember, like, no matter what
guys get paid, like, this is still a kid's game
and it still needs to have some of that element
in it.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
It has to be fun, it has to be engaging.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
You have to find a way to kind of tap
into that imagination and a natural competitiveness that every play
in the league has.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
It's just what's the secret sauce to unlocking that without
it filling hokey pokey or collegiate where guys are like,
what are we doing? Like this doesn't make any sense?
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Yeah, And it's it's become challenging in an era where
so many guys have their own they have their own routine,
they have their own program, they have their own coaches
that they work with back in their hometown. Maybe it's
group of players that get together and do their thing
to get them to all buy in. That's my whole thing.
I almost think in terms of the benefits of the
physical you know, the competition and even just getting bigger, faster, stronger.
(05:11):
I think when you go to the if you were
to tour around and go to these practices, you'll see
which teams have complete buy in, like of like, hey,
you just tell me what we're doing. I'm doing it,
no questions asked. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
And I also think some of it may be geographical,
like so you and I are affiliated with teams that
are in like nice locations, right Jacksonville, the weather is
always nice. So they were telling me that it was
almost one hundred percent of attendance for the all season program.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I'm sure if I asked you the same about the Chargers.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
I think where Sean Slater might have been the only
one that wasn't there, there's.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Pretty much understanding.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
And now some of that is driven by like why
wouldn't you want to be in southern California where it's
always nice and sunning those things, and so you get
a better.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Buy in and if your guys are around.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
To me, when it makes sense from the player's standpoint,
because if any injury happens. You're protected because you're on
the facility rounds, and so when you think about like workers,
confident all the other stuff, like you're there, whereas if
you're on your own, all the risk is on you
and NFI you know, non football related injuries and those things.
So it's just to me, I still believe that in
(06:13):
the off season, as much as we talk about the
work that takes place between the lines, a lot of
the chemistry and camaraderie exists because of the bonds that
you form through competing in the weight room, but then
spending all that time together away from the facility because
it's a natural part of Hey, what we're doing after
we leave here. Let's go eat, you know, let's go
(06:33):
hang out, let's go bowl, let's do some other stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Were you a basketball guy off season?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Oh? I loved it.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Like we used to compete so much, man Like, it
was always a big part of what we did. I
want to play off season basketball. I know the coaches, well,
it changed when I was in Green Bay. We had
a basketball court in the.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
State, We had a basketball court in Baltimore, like, so
that was.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Always a big part of the deal.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
We're going to play half court, a four court that
was a part of the cross training and whatever.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
So yeah, I'm a big part of it.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Obviously, you want guys to be careful to not put
themselves doing unnecessary riskto but yeah, there's some benefit to playing.
I just think anytime you have the guys together and
they can compete and build more chemistry, I think it
helps when we get into the season.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
I'll tell you about the time I got called in
the principal's office in Baltimore on that by the way,
oh boy, what we had. I don't remember if it
was a pre draft visit or it was a free
agent visit, but we had a player visit that was
not on our team. Okay, and this is year one
for me in the NFL. This is year one as
an office guy, as a personnel assistant. Well, we would
(07:38):
always go down and lunch. And this is at the
old Baltimore So this was like the Baltimore Colts facility
before they moved into the Castle that if you've seen
the Ravens, Yeah, really nice. This was the old dumpy
facility that the Baltimore Cult used to be in and
so it was a turf weight room buck but there
was a. There was a hoop in there, and we
used to go in there and hoop in there on
the turf like that old school like you know carpet
(07:59):
that was, you know, not not not like the grassy
looking field turf stuff that you see now. Well, we
used pay hooping there all the time. So we had
a guy visit and we were kind of giving him
the tour. I think it might have been washed me
and Jeremi Washburn might have been like giving him tour.
There's some other guys in there. And then he wanted
he wanted to hoop, so let's go, let's get go.
Oh yeah, let's go. So we were hooping with this
(08:21):
guy who's not under contract with us, who if for
some reason, and I'm so young and dumb, I don't not,
I don't thinking about this. This guy gets hurt. We
are in big trouble, big big trouble, and so somebody
I don't even I think it got I think somebody
saw us and then ran upstairs. And then it was
immediately like, hey, we don't do that. You cannot do
(08:43):
that ever, ever, ever, ever do that again. The guy
I want, Hey that when you're twenty, When you're twenty
five years old and can still hoop a little bit,
and somebody says they want to hoop like you.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Go get the buckets.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
You're so look, live and learn, Buck, That was a
That was the last time I ever played basketball with
someone who wasn't under contract with the team.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
That is.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Look, I understand, and I understand the competitor in you,
and I understand the competitor and the player that was
in the buildings.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
It's the risk, though. It's the risk.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Well, look back on it as someone who has like
half of a brain now and who has spent you know,
a lot of time around this game and has common sense.
Just like, what an idiot? What the heck was I thinking?
Not the not the smartest move I've ever made. That's
for sure, a lot of dumb moves over the years, Buck,
But that might be top ten.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
That's okay that I mean, look, that's that's all right.
It kind of happens. Get that for it out.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
It is what it is. I want to get in
just a minute here. I wanted to get to you
on a stat and some players that jumped off the
screen when I was going through some of the more
advanced numbers from last year's NFL season and have a
conversation about that before I do.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Though.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
One of the things I love about our conversations is
we kind of get into scouting stuff and you know,
I don't know, there's many programs that can do that
and talk about the little little nuances and scouting and
how things change. And we've talked and I think we've
you know, been pretty close to the forefront and advocating
for virtual reality, I think before it became as influential
(10:16):
as it was in different ways things. Yeah, we were
talking about that years ago, and then of course Jack
and Rouccie and that company took it and Ran and
Jaden Daniels being kind of the poster child for how
to properly utilize that tool. But one of the things
we were talking about off air, and I want to
just get onto it here, is that for those who
don't know how scouting works, when you're an area scout,
(10:39):
you're on the college side of scouting. You go out
on the road and you are you're constantly driving, especially
if you're in the West where we were for a while,
like you are long drives. You're getting to a school,
you get there early in the morning, you know, seven
o'clock in the morning, and then through the course of
the day, you're you're getting a chance to meet with
a bunch of different people. Coaches, you know, you look
(11:00):
at strength staff, the training staff, you're talking to academic people,
all these different meetings you have throughout the day. You
can try and get some tape in as well, which
is a lot easier now because everybody has it all
on their iPads or devices, mobile devices, so that they
can do that in their hotel. When we didn't really
have that luxury back to the day. We had the
most of the tape we got watched inside the facility.
(11:20):
But then you get out to practice. You body type guys,
you'll watch players move around before you get kicked out
of practice. And then you get in your car and
you might have a four or five hour drive, get
a bite to eat, get a workout in. You're in
your hotel buckets ten o'clock at night, and now you've
got to write all the background information and on these
players in your computer. And then we used to have
to write summaries where you'd have to summarize in a
(11:42):
pretty chunky, wordy document of the player and write them up.
And we were talking about this, and you, you know,
were filling me in on some of the folks you
talk to around the league that they're kind of getting
away from having to actually write the report. And I
want to get into all the different areas of how
this can affect scouting. But I think when I heard it, Buck,
(12:04):
my ears perked up, and it's one of those things
we're like, gosh, why didn't somebody think about this a
long time ago?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah, DJ, one of the frustrations that we used to
have when it came to scouting. I think you and
I've always talked about this is just the wordiness of
the reports that we used to have to compose, and
maybe some of the redundancy of the information that we
were inputting. And even though we both believe in the
thoroughness of the reporting, like the background information and the
medical stuff that we would get on the school call
(12:31):
and then the evaluation of the player, you can get
bogged down in the details when it comes to just
inputting and doing the word processing in those things. And
when you are a road scout and you're having to
drive from one school to another, and the drive may
be a couple hours, and then you get to the hotel,
and it may take you thirty to forty five minutes
of report. Time on tasks can prevent you from being
(12:54):
efficient and effective and the process.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
And one of the things that I'm learning.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
And talking to people around the league is that some
people are changing their I guess input systems to where
it's a little more drag and drop, a little more
slaughter oriented, where you're not having to spend as much
time inputting the verbiage and more of the time is on, Hey,
let's put the numbers in the digits that can be calculated,
(13:20):
give us averages and those things from an analytical standpoint,
and then a what's your one or two line aer
like what's your summary on the player? And to me
when I came across it, I was like, man, this
is ingenious because just time on task and just the
efficiency that it allows you to operate with as a scout. Look, man,
I just think it's one of the things that we
(13:41):
can do now. Thats Look, it is drastically different than
the way things have always been done in the past,
but I do believe it's a way to take some
of those past attributes and things that we want to
have in every report.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
But do it in a more efficient manner.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, and to give people another idea there. So, say
you go into a school, you know, and you're a
power for school you're going to have nowadays, especially because
you're having to keep an eye on the underclass and
their draft eligible you might have fifteen to twenty reports
that you're writing now. Of those fifteen to twenty, let's
say on average of the school, they might be six,
(14:19):
six to eight and would be pretty pretty standard. And
obviously you get into Ohio State in Alabama, you might have,
you know, these fifteen draftable type players you know that
are at least considered draftable, which is a lot of work.
But then you also what would bog you down as
you be in these schools and I might have I
might go into let's say, like I go into Utah,
(14:40):
just a random school, and they might have I might
have to write up fifteen reports, but maybe only three
of them are real draftable guys. Well, it still takes
you a heck of a long time to write up
twelve players that you have as free agents. And we
used to always joke about it, and I'm sure we
joked about it talking on the road all those years,
Like man, I need the generic. Give me the generic slow,
(15:02):
the big slow receiver report. Like I wish I just
had a generic where I could just pick it, Like, Hey,
this guy, he's a productive Yeah, he's a productive college player.
He's got some size and ball skills. He just has
no quickness, he has no burst, he has no play speed.
He's not going to get draft. He's not gonna run
fast enough to get himself drafted. Well, I'm still having
to go through check out, check the boxes, right descriptions
(15:24):
of his body type, right descriptions of all of his
position specific attributes, and then I'm having to write a
summary on him. Now, it might be more brief. You
could get away with being more brief on a free agent,
but still you're writing summaries. Whereas now it's like almost
you're creating kind of these generic profiles and you can
kind of say, Okay, this guy fits this body type profile,
(15:45):
this athleticism profile. Is a free agent and like you
were saying, to slide, slide, slide, and then boom, I'm
off to the next one. You talk about saving some time, Now,
Holy cow, I.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Mean, why wouldn't you just love it? Right?
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Because I think it allows you to do what the
important part of the job is not only getting the information,
but the evaluation. I think if you have to spend
less time worrying about just I would say some of
the busy work part of it and more of the
time on.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
The evaluation part.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
I think we can make better decisions and better overall
evaluations on players by doing that. And like I'm a
big fan of it, I'm a big fan in the
efficient process. It's one of the things that we talked
about that people discovered over COVID in terms of, hey,
do we have to do all of this troutpo? Can
we do some of these things at home? And I
know we're a time where people are really trying to
(16:35):
mandate the return to office, but I do believe some
of the remote stuff that we learned during our time
during the pandemic has helped scouts and people evaluate and
be more efficient with their time and all those other
things and so much of the job. I would say
the hard part of the job has little to do
with the football part of it, but more to do
with man I got to get from dispot to death
(16:57):
spot by tomorrow and all of that. If you can
help the area, guys out by doing some things that
make it I would say, like scout friendly, I believe
you can eventually get to the point where you make
the process easier, where you can make better decisions because
you're getting better evaluation from guys that aren't tired but
are really locked in on the task at hand.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Do you remember being in the room and this happened
all the time. People would get called on the carpet.
He's like, hey, man, your grade and your description they
don't miss match. It doesn't match like you gave him
a high grade, but when I read the summary that
you wrote, it doesn't match up. I think they're eliminating
this by doing this because they're connecting them saying like, okay,
here's the description you drag and drop. Well, that description
(17:38):
comes with this grade, because that's what history has shown us,
that players that are like this are this number value
and so no mismatch. I think I actually think it's
really really smart man.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Yeah, because because DJ like, okay, So let's think about it.
The reality behind the situation. You talked about going to
a big school, and let's say back in the day,
USC was always one of the bigger schools in terms
of number of prosps. Well, the general rule is add
a day per seven scouts per seven prospects is like
a day. So if there's seven on offense and seven
(18:11):
on defense, that's a two day visit at a minimum. Well,
when you have that kind of workload when it comes
to writing reports, obviously you can't write all of those
reports at night. And what happens there's a carryover. So
the guy that I saw on Tuesday, I'm in that
right about to Wednesday. But guess what happened on Wednesday.
I saw seven more guys on Wednesday. That now clouds
(18:31):
my mind, and so my grade might be high on him.
But because it's been a day before I got to
the process of writing the report, the report doesn't always
match up. And that's some of the stuff that happens,
and that's how you get I won't say some of
the misses, but some of the non matching verbiage to
(18:52):
go with the grade, because the grade says you really
love the player, but your verbage doesn't.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
And some of that is because you can't.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Really remember all the the details that you had or
that you fell in love with the player when you
watched the player in real time.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah, when I was in. When I was in Baltimore
and in Cleveland, our thing was, Hey, they wanted you
to keep up with your reports as best you could.
Just make sure you're always sending something in, like you
need to send in a batch every Friday or what
have you.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, but every Friday was the day.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
I didn't necessarily have to have every player I watched
during that week done by that Friday, but it was like, hey,
you just kind of chipping away. And that's kind of
like I've told people the origin story of the name
Move the Sticks, which was they always fill Savage always
talk about, hey, every day advanced the ball just a
little bit more every day, as long as you're turning
something in and you keep moving it forward. And then
like say o, our ultimate date was December tenth, tenth
(19:44):
or fifth or whatever it would be. Now, you'd be
off the road at that point in time, and so
that last ten days, man, I'd be cranking out tons
of work and you might be catching up on somebody
you saw a month ago, like you know, that's a
long time. Then when I was in Philadelphia, we had
to have it every Friday by midnight from that week,
Like we were responsible for getting everything anything in yeah week.
(20:05):
But even with that, you know that I might have
I might be writing a player up at eleven o'clock
Friday night that I watched on Monday. And I've seen
eighty players since I saw that guy.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
You remember it?
Speaker 1 (20:17):
All that makes it challenging. So I think it's really smart.
And I think it also from a standpoint of being
able to run reports, be able to say like, hey,
are we off on this guy because all of us
in our reports had this, you know, this number, like
an eight on competitiveness out of ten or whatever skill
you want to use, or at nine or whatever. And
then now we can pull all those numbers and be like, okay, man,
(20:40):
we need to we need to put this guy up
a little bit higher. We all agree he has the
course stuff that we want.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Yeah, And I think the big challenge did you talk about,
like submitting those reports and getting reports in the thing
is that you were trying and do you stay like, hey,
if you can't get the what you used to call
them critical factors in yeah, like at least while it's
fresh in your mind right the summery.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yeah, because if.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
I write the summary, I can go back and fill
in the critical factors based on my Yeah, but if
I don't do anything, I don't put them in. Man.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
That is the recall is just really.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Hard unless you are an exceptional note taker and your
notes are so clear that you can open up the
notebook and see be like, oh, yeah, I remember I
like this play. Because if not, you have to rewatch
the player again to get another feel for what really
grows you to that thing. It just makes it a
very very difficult thing. And so from an efficiency process, man,
(21:32):
we just want to be efficient so we can be
really really good with everything.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah. No, it's I think it's kind of a game
changer there. So I want to have that little scouting discussion.
Let's take a quick break, Buck, come back. I've got
a stat and some names I wanted to throw at
you and get your thoughts on it right after this,
all right, So I was thinking of this, Buck, I
was thinking, what if we're in a league, at quarterback league,
(21:58):
and we're trying to make the offense and the whole
setup as quarterback friendly as possible to get the best
performance out of our players. I started thinking like, okay, well,
obviously we've talked about the three piece forever you got
the play call or you got the protection, you got
the play makers. And I started thinking, okay, well, still
a statistical league, so you know we want guys hopefully
you're going to throw for four thousand yards and touchdowns, this,
(22:18):
that and the other. So I thought, okay, well, who
is going to be your best friend then? And what
stat should I What did I want to look up
and look at? And I started thinking, man as someone
who didn't have a strong arm with that position, give
me run after catch. I want to see, like, who
are those best guys? Who are the guys that do
that better than anybody else? And I separated it with
wide outs and tight ends. So these are guys who
I think you could make a case are the most
(22:40):
quarterback friendly players in the league because of what they
did with the ball in their hands after you got
the ball in their hands. So these are the five
leaders last year, and then I want to get your
thoughts on them, but I'll just give you the names
here because a couple of them might surprise you. Last year,
Jamar Chase led the league yards after catch eight hundred
and three yards. Amongst the price Dj Moore, who remember
(23:03):
Dj Moore when he was coming out of college. That
was his emo, like he has been the same guy
from college to Carolina to Chicago. He was second with
six hundred and thirty yards. How about this one? The
third in the league in yards after the catch last year?
Khalil Shakir for the Buffalo Bools Buffalo about six hundred
and twenty two yards after him, a guy that you
(23:24):
could probably peek over your shoulder and find Brian Thomas
Junior as a rookie six hundred yards after the catch
last year, and then Ceedee Lamb would round out the
top five with five hundred and sixty six yards. But
when you see those names so Chase Moore, Shakir, BTJ Lamb,
like what stands out to you? Do they have any
Is there any commonality? Because there's a lot of different
body types and speeds and all those things. But when
(23:46):
you look at those guys, what is there anything connects them?
Speaker 3 (23:50):
DJ to OL connected that I used to use would
be pume returnability, returnability in those things, but those guys
don't necessarily qualify under that. I think the one thing
that we can talk about all of them and watching
their tape, we've always talked about contact, balance and ball
in hand strength, like in terms of their ability to
break tackles, and strength that they displayed when they're in
(24:12):
the open field, like they run through arm tackles and
they're very, very difficult to get down. The thing about
Jamar Chase, when you look at him, if you watch
him play, and then if you've seen any of the
stuff that he does in the off season, strong and
explosive is a big part of his DNA. When I
think about Cedee Lamb, the running skills that he used
to display at Oklahoma doesn't surprise me that he's in there.
You talked about DJ Moore and how DJ Moore was
(24:34):
at Maryland Brian Thomas Junior, to me is a bit
of a surprise because it took them a while to
kind of figure it out, but then they started making
a concerted effort to give him the ball. DJ so
much of playing wide receiver. Will talk about route running
and all that other stuff, But to me, the best
way to enhance a quarterback is if you can at
least have one catch and run specialists in the core,
(24:56):
someone that you can get the ball to and they
can turn a short pass into a big game.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
It helps the quarterback.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Because those short passes are high completion percentage passes, but
they have a big yield on that. That's exactly what
you want for a quarterback as he's beginning to hit
these layups and those layups are turning into big play opportunities.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah, I was looking at it thinking, you've got different
heights in here, You've got some different weights, you know,
somewhat different body types. You've got guys who've run much
faster than other guys on here. But if I was
going to say, what's the what's the thread? All five
of these guys have exceptional quickness and exceptional play strength
like that. To me, when we think of yards after catch,
(25:37):
sometimes you might just think, oh, it's the fastest guys,
it's Tyreek Hill, you know, the fastest guys in the league.
To me, it's more about the quickness and the play
strength and the combination of the two. And it's interesting
that they come in different packages.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Yeah, so so, And here's the thing, because I feel
like we've talked about the basketball theme basketball team theme
for a while, like having different types, different skill sets
or whatever. But DJ, if you'r a guy can't extend
the player, he only gets what is drawn up.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
It's hard to live in that offense.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
You put so much pressure on the offensive coordinator and
the quarterback to like everything has to be perfect. You
give me nothing outside of what's drawn up. It's hard
to live in a game like that. It's just really
really hard to do that. So I am glad that
you dug into that because I think it's eye opening
to see the guys that are producing the big plays
(26:31):
with the ball in their hands, and it's not derived
just on the air yards.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
It's really the yards have to catch.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, and you know different quarterbacks there too. When you
look at the quarterbacks associated with those wide receivers. To me,
it gives you hope if you're Chicago, because they've done
a nice job of even getting him more guys. I
think Lovelin's going to be a good run after catch players,
so you add him in there. Roma Dunese was good
after the catch in college, so I think they've got
a nice mixture of guys are gonna be able to
do some things with the ball in their hands. With
(26:58):
Ben Johnson at the helm call and play, so that'll
be fun. The tight ends run after catch or yards
after catch. Rookie Bowers best in the league last year
eighteen yards. That would have put him. That would have
put him as the fourth receiver, like forget tight ends,
it would put him even as the fourth receiver. Trey
McBride was next to five point fifty nine, George Kittle
still doing it, five hundred and thirty six yards, John
(27:21):
Smith five hundred and twenty one yards last year, and
then Kelsey there was a big drop off from four
to five. He had three hundred and eighty three yards.
But you're looking at Bowers. Darn near doubled up Kelsey
in yards after the catch last year.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
We look, man, anyone that watched him at Georgia and
talked to the people around Georgia, they talked about him
being the best athlete, the best player, the best playmaker.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
That they had.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
And remember at george they gave him the ball in
a variety of ways. Jes sweeps, screens, everything he touched it.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
The Raiders.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Just his success there was just a continuation of what
he's always done. And as a young, dynamic playmaker who
didn't have much around him, Man, it's only going to
get better for him in the league.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
We've sung.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Look, we watched Travis Kelce dominate the league for years
as a catch and run playmaker for the kan City Chiefs.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Well, now you talk.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
About a younger, more dynamic version of that in Las Vegas.
I expect Bowers to be at the top of the
list for years and years to come because he is
terrific with the ball in his hands.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
So I'm gonna ask you, then, Bowers as a rookie
led the league last year. We've got this rookie tight
end class. Do we see any of those guys a
year from now in the top five in terms of
what they do with the balder? Hans Tyler Warren is
with the Colts. Loveland we've mentioned is with the Bears.
You've got Mason Taylor's with the Jets. So there's some,
(28:40):
you know, some interesting players out there. Harold fan is
a good player. I'm excited to see what he does
and how he fits in alongside in Djoku with Cleveland.
That might be a reps opportunity thing there might not
help him, but some good tight ends. We see any
of those guys on this list next year?
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I think Mason Taylor has a great opportunity. I think
as you're building out this offense for Justin fields. We
talked remembered like Matt Draft and we always pair a
tied end with Justin Fiers because we talked about right
down the middle, it's the easiest throwing, the easiest completion
for the quarterback. Mason Taylor's now the beneficiary there, and
with Gary Wilson on the outside, you know he's gonna
come in double coverage. Look, there's gonna be plenty of
(29:14):
opportunities for Mason Taylor to make plays. I would bank
on him being in that conversation as one of the.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Athlete There you go, Well, this was a fun one man.
You got a chance to talk about some of the
scouting stuff as well as some quarterback friendly players in
this league. Gino Smith's gonna love throwing the ball to
Brock Bauers. Looking about Joe Burrow, how excited he is
to have that receiving core back. Look like that might
not be the case, but they figured it out. They
got it done. So Jamar Chase, it's gonna be hard
(29:41):
to give him a ton of attention when you got
to worry about the other guys they have in that offense.
So it'll be fun to watch. We'll keep an eye
on some other stats here as we go through the
offseason and see if we can't pull some other takeaways out
for you. But that's gonna do it. Buck enjoy your
time and Jville enjoy the rest of getting a chance
to watch some of this football that I just basically
said is not worth anything. So you enjoy that, make
(30:02):
the most of it, and I enjoy all your feedback.
We'll see you guys next time. Right here, I'll move
the sticks
Hosts And Creators
Daniel Jeremiah
Bucky Brooks
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