September 11, 2025 • 38 mins
Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks welcome former colleague and Raiders GM Mike Mayock onto the show to preview the highly-anticipated Super Bowl LIX rematch between the Chiefs and Eagles. Together, they analyze the keys to victory for both teams and explain which factors will mean the most when the teams meet on Sunday. Then, Mike shares his thoughts on roster construction across the league, which trends he believes will stick around for the foreseeable future and shares memorable stories about Jon Gruden during his time with the Raiders.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now move the sticks with Daniel, Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
What's up everybody walking to move the sticks? DJ, Buck?
And look who it is. It's our old buddy, Mike
Mayock joining the show. Mike. How the heck are you? Buddy?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm doing great. How you guys do it? Oh?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Come on, man, I'm fit. I'm so fired up about
this today because we get to talk all the time,
and I always felt like if we kind of take
the conversations that we have and then just like record them,
I think it would be fun content Buck, I know,
like the three of us when we've always had a
chance to get together and talk offline, it's just good
ball talk. So thanks for coming on, man, we appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
You know what's funny. I run into Bucky and airports
all the time, and I get a kick out of
it because I get to sit down next to somebody
with a cup of coffee and talk ball. And it's
the same thing. I mean, all three of us just
love talking ball.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Before we get the ball. I want to touch on
that coffee thing is Starbucks coffee is like the play
the stuff you buy out in the world. Is it
more powerful than these stupid little pods I'm drinking because
I just been drinking these little uh what is it espresso?
Not necessarily so I'm drinking those every day. I think
(01:13):
it's just water because I had a real Starbucks today,
and I feel like I've done cocaine. I feel like
off the walls right now.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
DJ, for the record, did you just confirm that you've
used cocaine?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
You could put you could put sugar, salt, caine on
the table and I wouldn't be able to tell you
which was any of the three. But I've assumed I've
seen movies, Mike, I watched Oh my gosh. All right, hey,
we want to jump into some some some football stuff
here at starting with what's going to be an awesome
game Philly casey rematch of the Super Bowl. Uh, Mike,
(01:48):
let's let's start there. And let's start, uh Philly off
of what we saw last year. A lot of new faces,
but again they get they get the job done against
Dallas Week one. What have you seen from them?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I'm I'm gonna give you a twenty second synopsis of
their offense, which is just my synopsis from three hours
of watching their offensive tape. And you guys can react
to that and disagree all you want. Point Number one,
their quarterback, Jalen Hurts, won the game for him. Okay,
his legs, his ability to scramble. I mean they had
(02:22):
back Dallas had back to back blitzes with a nickel
and a corner, both of whom came free, neither of
whom touched Jalen Hurts because he made a miss and
made plays, and that happened all night long. Their offense
wasn't real good the other night. Number one won the game.
Number two. If you're going to be in twelve and
(02:43):
thirteen personnel, your tight ends better block better. Number three,
their offensive line, which I love and give them props
all the time, did not play particularly well. Osa Odigi
Zulu number ninety seven for Dallas Quick. He caused problems
(03:04):
on the inside all night long. I didn't think Land
and Dickerson moved particularly.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Well straight up and down. Mike could Is he hurt?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, he's been hurt. They weren't sure if he was
going to make the game. He didn't play well, even
the tackles you know who rarely get criticized. My lot.
I had some struggle, struggles with the speed guys to
the outside lane. Johnson got moved with the power guys
on the other side. So when I look at that tape,
(03:33):
I give the quarterback an A plus and I give
the rest of the team about a C plus on offense.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
You know, Mike, I want to go back to the
quarterback right because I think the quarterback's evolution is one
of the more remarkable things that I've ever seen in
the draft process. Like thinking about Jalen Hurson, what he
was at Alabama before he went to Oklahoma to what
he's become.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Now, have you ever seen anything like that? And if
you have, what is the.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Secret sauce to Jayalen Hurst that has made him outperform
what we thought his draft stealing would be.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I remember, like it was yesterday, interviewing him at the
combine for the twenty twenty draft with the Raiders, and
I walked away, and you know how those meetings go.
You don't get much time with the kids, right, It's
hard to make an impression one way or the other.
I came away going Wow, I mean the adversity this
kid has dealt with in his life, the way he
(04:28):
handles it on an even keel, I think has permeated
all the way through to today. If you watch his
press conferences with the Eagles, it's all about just team
and getting better every day. He's never real high, he's
never real low. But when they need him, he plays
his best football. I mean, I thought he played outstanding
(04:51):
in both Super Bowls against Kansas City. And they got
a lot of big name stars and Saquon Barkley and
all these guys, But at the end of the day,
he's the calm influence in the locker room. They believe
in him and Buck. I think we all always know
about his legs. I think he's judicious with how he
(05:12):
uses his legs. He knows when to get down. He's
got a great feel for how many yards he can
get and not take a big shot. And the thing
that continues to improve. And I had some problems with it,
like halfway through the season a year ago. But his
pocket mechanics and ability to get the ball out quickly
I was worried about a year ago, and I think
(05:35):
he was so concerned about making turnovers he held onto
the ball. I think he's completely changed all that around.
I just think the guy every day gets a little better.
He understands what he's trying to do. He never gets
beyond himself. I'm just thoroughly impressed, not only with the
quarterback but with the person.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
That's a good way to put it, man. I was
watching it, and I was thinking, I agree with everything
that you said. There A couple other things along with
Hurtz was it's a combination of playing with some urgency.
Like there's urgency where he's playing faster to your point,
like he's sped up a little bit, but he doesn't
feel like he's doesn't feel like it's sped up on
and all he kind of knows like they leaked the
tight end out on one. He's patient when he needs
(06:18):
to be patient. He sits, lets that stuff develop and
gets it. But then he gets free runners and he
can play with urgency without panic and then make something
that makes something good happen there. It's just a poise.
I just keep if you're trying to like sum it
all up into one thing, I just go back to
the guy. He's just got tremendous poise, man, And that's
been that to me is what stands out the most
(06:39):
about what he's doing.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
But I was with you, I was.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Watching that, going is Dickerson. Maybe I saidant paid as
much attention to him because I thought the center played well,
and I was gonna it was one of the points
I was going to bring up because I wanted to
ask you about that because I Jurgen's coming out and
it was easy to see this is their style of center.
This is Kelsey like the way that he plays in
leverage and movement and all that stuff. I wanted to
ask you about that. But while I was watching him,
(07:01):
I'm like, God, Diggerson's just playing straight up and down.
He looks so stiff. But the injury there makes sense.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Mike, he had a bunch of knee stuff coming out.
We had to do not draft great on him from
our medical knee stuff. He also has a back stuff
right now. It's something to keep an eye on. He's
limited again, didn't practice yesterday. So losing mckuy beckton, you know,
(07:27):
bringing another different guard in on the right side and Steam,
there's some changes to that old line and it's gonna
be interesting to see where they go from here. Obviously,
I think they're the thing they have that helps them
as much or more than any team in the league
is they have one of the best coaches maybe in
offensive line history and Jeff Stollin and he'll figure it out.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
You know, I'm glad you brought up just out because
one thing that stood up to me Last year when
the Jaguars went to Philly to play, I had a
chance to see the Eagles operating pregame, and Mike, if
you've never seen if you're a person who is in
the ball, but if you've never.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Seen the Philadelphia Eagles work out, it is a practice
for a game. And when I mean a practice, there
are what we call no burger eaters on that team.
Everybody's working, everybody's getting ready, and if you're inactive, then
you go put on your sweats and silent. But you
don't do that, and so you do put in a
good day's work. Mike, have you ever seen anything like that?
(08:27):
And if you got back in the league, would that
be something that you would be all about when it
came to telling your coaches, Hey, this is how we
get down.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Balkutt's a great point, and I've seen it. I've seen
it a bunch of times game days, I've seen non
game days. I when I go to an Eagle practice,
I make sure I get out for the field early
just to go watch Stout work with his guys. And
you know, there's Lane Johnson about one hundred and four
years old, and he's over there and they're working hard
(08:57):
twenty five minutes before practice even arts. You know, it's
just bucky. I think it's one of it. It's it's
it's a point like there are certain ways that what
frustrates me a little bit about the NFL is there's
certain ways to do things right. Everybody wants to do
it this way, you know. I think Howie Roseman does
(09:18):
it his way. I think Jeff Stotlin does it his way.
I think the Eagles are always kind of pushing at
the edges to find better ways to do things. And
I think anybody that wants to like their offensive line
works up a frothing. They're ready to go.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
They're like a fight of sparring before event. I mean,
I mean, I've never seen anything like.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, they're just not lean, they're not just leaning on
each other. They're getting after each other. And so when
that first snap comes, it's not like they're waiting to
be hit. I mean, they've already been hit and they're
good to go. I they they're really impressive. That's why
I kind of brought up the old line today with
you guys on the overview of the game. You know,
(10:04):
you get a couple of personnel changes. I was surprised
that tackles had some bad reps. I also, I think
should give some credit to Dallas. I thought Dallas is
probably better than I thought. I thought they played their
tails off, and I think week one to week two
is a chance to take a step back and go, Okay,
(10:26):
you know, the bullets are real. We saw some things.
Now we can fix them. Coming into week two, you
got Kansas City staring in your face, and that's a
whole different conversation.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
That's where I want to go, Mike. I want to
kind of get to each side of the ball. You know,
when they're going to be facing each other, So what
kind of bounce between the Eagles and the Chiefs. But
on that last point, to wrap that up, it wasn't
only Hurts who was able to have a couple Houdini escapes.
Barkley was able with some clean runners at him to
be able to turn two three yard tackle for loss
into seven eight yard games, which is some freaky stuff.
(10:59):
Like you played game of tag in the NFL. Jalen
Hurts and Saquon Barkley would be top five picks. Just
I don't know they could. They don't get a hand
on them. They got free, free, free lane, free run
at him. But going over the chief side of things this,
I watched the tape and then I went back and
looked at all the analytics on it, and this is
why what does that phrase trust but verify? You know,
(11:20):
like you see, you see some numbers. You can't always
just take the numbers for what they are. So watching
that game live, I thought, you know, and doing all
these Charger games this as well, this is some of
the cleaner pockets that Justin Herbert's ever had the luxury
of throwing from offensive line played great, all played great.
He was a lockdown left tackle. The whole group played really,
really well, and they used the tight ends smartly with
(11:42):
Disley who can block, and Matt Locke came in there
and helped out both the backs. Chargers sneakily have two big,
physical pass protecting backs now with Hampton as well as
with Nijie Harris. So that was my takeaway. Then I
went and watched the tape and I'm like, yeah, you know,
they did play really well up front. Then I looked
at the analytics. I said, you know what, the Chiefs
the only time they got him, Trinkle had two sacks.
It's when Spags had to really he had to get
(12:04):
over aggressive and send bodies to get home because they're
not getting there with four. So then I go pff ultimate.
I pull up four man rush and it's like twenty
eight rushes and they had fourteen pressures and I'm like,
there's no way, on God's green Earth there's fourteen pressures.
So I go back and watch those plays and it's like,
you know, get to the top of your drop, hitch, hitch,
nothing there, nothing there. Herbert takes off to run and
(12:26):
maybe carloftis like touches him on the way to like
a three, And I'm like, so that's a pressure. Like
so that's why it was a good lesson. Never just
take those numbers for you know, face value there.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Now, I it's really intriguing because I do some work
for Sumer Sports where I grade, which is an analytically
driven football company. Okay, I grade college kids. I do
some NFL tape. So we have a whole bunch of
former scouts putting grades in on players. But for instance,
(12:59):
just to give you the I'm amazed where this whole
thing's going. Every NFL team has an analytics department that
seems to double by size every year. Okay, just from
a coaching helping coaches perspective, I had this what they
call the sumer Brain, which is their aipiece. I posed
a question to it and said, this is a couple
(13:21):
of weeks ago. Use Tampa Bay's defense in the last
four regular season games as your basis, and draw up
a scouting report based on what their fronts were, their coverages,
break them out by percentage, and what kind of success
run versus pass at each level on first, second, and
(13:44):
third downs. Break all that out. And I posed this
long question to AI, which would have taken two quality
control guys to sixteen hour days to do. Right, you
guys have all been there grinding that tape. Ninety seconds later,
it spits out every front, every coverage, all the percentages.
(14:11):
Now I don't know if it's all correct or not,
because garbage in, garbage out. I don't know who put
all the fronts and coverage of stuff, because I don't
know about you. But when I watch a film. I
got to watch a tape back five six times sometimes
on some of these coverages right the quarter, quarter, half quarters,
how they plan it anyway ninety seconds. So from a
(14:34):
coaches perspective, if you have this at your fingertips, think
about how more efficient you can be during a game week.
You can download all that stuff immediately. It's just but
to your point, DJ, without kind of the human eye
verifying the information. It's buyer beware is the way I
(14:58):
look at it, and it's just kind of an add
to the other information that you have already.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
You know, may' let's talk about the defense the Eagles.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
The Eagles got younger, right, so Brandon Graham goes away,
they trade away, and so now they're relying on a
bunch of young players. It's unfortunate that Jayalen Carter decided
to take himself out of the game by.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
Doing something silly and those things.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
But I kind of want to talk about that because
when they turned over a bit of their roster, they
did basically entrust some of the leadership responsibilities to one
of the young best players in Jalen Carter. So one
coming out, do you think he's ready to be the
point on the sword for the Eagles. And two, what
do you think about that front line with all their
youth and talent that they have along those that front I.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Think sometimes we put too much on young talented players
as quote leaders, and not everybody's a leader. And it's
okay to be a great football player without being a leader.
It's okay, you know. But I think, you know, there's
great all these silly sound bites I hear all the time,
(16:06):
you know, and you know, Michaeh. Parsons is going to
bring along van Ness, Lucas van Ness, and like Michaud,
do your job and everybody will be better. We're good,
you're twenty six. You just got to a new team.
I don't think Jalen Carter is a leader in a
good way. I think I think Jalen Carter is a handful,
(16:27):
always has been, probably always will be. But his physical
ability dwarfs everything else. Okay, so you called it. I
mean he did a dumb thing, and so my takeaway
is he's still immature. It's not a leadership thing for him.
And the second takeaway is that Jomo and Davis both
(16:54):
played close to ninety percent of the defensive snaps at
defensive tackle, and that's unfair to them, and it was
because of an unselfish act by Carter. So at the
end of the day, Carter still has a lot of
growing up to do, but that doesn't mean I don't
think he's a great football player and is one of
the top three or four into your players in this league.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
So in everything right on, I'm curious to see this
because when I watched this and I knew you were
coming on a lot of times we share it with
very similar take on players and what we enjoy what
we watch. So I have someone who's established themselves as
my favorite player on this Eagles defense to watch, and
I don't want to get say anymore. I've written it
down just I wanted to see what you watched in
(17:41):
just the style of which this guy I'm a huge fan.
So I'm curious to see Mike when you watch that tape,
who is a Mike Mayott guy watching that tape?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Well, number fifty three is ridiculous, Even saying he's ridiculous.
The play where he chased the guy down the running
back down in the third or fourth quarter from behind,
strip it and he caught it. He looks like he
was shot out of again and chases him down from
(18:14):
behind him trying to rip it out, and that play
set up the strip sack by Jahad Campbell picked up
by Quinnyon Mitchell, the only turnover of the game. If
Zach Bond doesn't chase that thing down, Eagles probably lose.
I'm also a huge fan of this Cooper Degen Mmm,
(18:35):
he's probably the most the second most talented corner on
their roster, but they like him so much at Nickel.
I don't think that. I don't think Vic wants to
put him out wide, And I would also tell you
I'm not sure the answer out wide other than Cooper
dejen is on that roster. Yeah, Tory Jackson got torched.
(18:59):
I'm not sure they have an answer.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
For not Cory and Bennett either, And it came in.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
He also had a I mean the Eagles had seven
defensive penalties of the nine, you know, in addition to
Jaalen Carter, there were three defensive pass interference penalties. There
was a tawning penalty by Nolan Smith. There were two
unnecessary roughness penalties. I mean, Vick's got to get that
(19:24):
kind of reeled in, but DJ we went off target.
There did I did I hit either of your guys?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Nolan somebody. This is my theory. This is my theory
on Nolan Smith. Yeah, Nolan Smith. Somebody told him you're
six foot five, two hundred and eighty five pounds, and
he just believes it because he plays so much bigger
than he is. I could just watch him versus poets.
I wonder if you're like a guard and you're watching
(19:52):
tape every week going like I didn't do I really
want to pull this week, This freaking four to four
missile just wants to take my head off every time
I go to try and pull him, and then he
just pressure after he gets into pads. He he must
have had five or six bull pressures where just taking
him right back to the quarterback. And I'm like, this
guy plays like he's two hundred and seventy five eight pounds.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
You know why he does? In all honesty, you know,
I'm sitting here in Philly keeping an eye on him
every week. Last year, he didn't. He barely got in
a game for the first six, seven, eight weeks of
the season. Another reason why Vic Fangio called him out
every week, Like they get in a press conference and
every week the reporters would say, well, how come Nolan
(20:34):
Smith will isn't playing? He said, until he stops the run,
he's not getting on the field. And so the reason
he attacks the pullers the way he does, and he
does it every whether it's a tight end hard, it
doesn't matter. And he closes down there. Excuse me, he
compresses those holes on the back side of that state.
(20:56):
It's unbelievable. So I think Nolan Smith is becoming one
of the better edge guys in the leg run in
pass and I think it's his natural ability. He's a
willingness to work and this old curmudgeon by the name
of Vic Fangio and Buck.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
This is where the numbers come into play because I'm
watching this and I'm like, he's kind of he's dominating
up front, but he doesn't have any like wins. He
didn't have a lot of, you know, production to go
along with it. So then that's when like, I love
the win rate number and you go look at it.
For week one, I think he had like the fifth
or sixth highest win rate and I'm like, well, that's
what he's doing. He's just beating the crap out of
(21:37):
the guy over him. Every single snap. So I can
appreciate that, you know, but I want to go.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Back to the Vic Fangio thing, right because at a
time when the league is getting younger, Mike, I want
to lean into your experiences as a gentleman jan as
a player.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
I still believe that old school works when it comes
to coaching.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
So can you talk to me a little bit about
Fangio's way and the positive impact has had.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
On the defense.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Buck Here's what I've learned. I'm sixty when I'm sixty
seven years old now and I've been around it my
whole life. And here's what I've learned is that players
very quickly figure out which coaches can help them become
better players and help them become better teams on a
(22:24):
quest for a Super Bowl. So they quickly figure it out,
can this guy help me or not? And if he
can't help them, and it doesn't matter whether the guy's
thirty two or Vix my age, he's like you were
the same. I think he's sixty seven. I mean, if
the sixty seven year old can help you, they're all in.
(22:45):
And what really helps Vic and I think all these
guys is when you're honest with players They might not
always like it, but they respect it. I think there's
a tendency with too many coaches these days n gms
to be honest with you, to kind of sugarcoat things
(23:08):
and say to a player, well, you know, don't worry,
just keep working. You'll play it. You know you're gonna
play soon next week. Then the player goes, well, why
didn't I play next week? And vic LuxI in the
ay and said, what'd you do in practice on Thursday
when that poller came out? Did you attack them? No,
you're not playing? And Buck I just I'm with you.
(23:30):
I think there's an old school respect that really matters,
even if you're twenty one years old. And I think
players figure it out real quickly.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
I want to get back to Kansas City, Mike. We
you know, we're talking a little bit about to me
defensively with them, they got to figure out a way
to get home without having to send a bunch of
guys like that's something to keep an eye with them.
But then flip it over to the offense. Is someone
who's the GM in that division had to deal with them?
You know that's a it's a chore with mahomes, did
you guys have like Jordan rules Mahomes rules at all,
(24:00):
trying and slow them down.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yeah, I mean pretty much. There was a focus, especially
with the edge rushers, not to get up the field
further than Mahomes' depth. Yeah, and you know that's a
basic but when you play any quarterback that can step
up and go, like, the thing you hate the most
with any quarterback, but especially Patrick Mahomes, is when he
(24:24):
has the ability to step up either directly up into
the pocket or directly on an angle inside that defensive
end because now he can threaten run pass immediately. It's
not like he's running latterly away from the line of scrimmage.
It's like he's coming, stepping up and now it's like, okay,
what are your choices as a defense? You can defend.
(24:46):
You can defend these guys for six seconds perfectly, and
he's still going to find Kelsey on some kind of
weird route. Right. So the Kelsey thing was really brutal
because you trying to tell guys how to cover him
is unbelievable because they're innate. Feel for each other is
something like I've never seen The routes they run are
(25:10):
just you know, it's just they feel leverage, and they
both see it the same way. I think when when
I look at that team right now, I see a
couple of things on offense, like not a dynamic run team.
We're not last year, don't have a dynamic runner. I
(25:32):
think they averaged four yards of carry last year and
that was twenty eighth, twenty ninth in the league. Whatever.
So run game is not dynamic, hasn't been for a
year plus a week past game. When you lose Rashi
Rice and Xavier Worthy, now you're fighting for pass game. Also,
(25:54):
you know, so is Kelsey the same guy. We're going
to figure that out. It puts an awful lot of
press and a revamped left side of the offensive line,
which will continue to get better. But it puts an
awful lot of pressure on the quarterback, and I think
it did last year. And I'm not talking about quote
(26:15):
external pressure. I'm just talking about pressure to produce, right buck.
I mean, if you don't have a dynamic run game
and you're struggling to throw the ball, it comes down
to your all world quarterback to stand on his head
and win games.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Look, it's funny because we talked about it being a
quarterback driven league.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
And it is.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
But the league is cyclical and it's coming back to
where the running game is still important. The only way
to get people out of these two high looks you
have to be able to run it and run it effectively. So, Mike,
now that we're kind of talking about lack of a
dynamic runner for Kansas City, where do we value running backs?
DJ and I always have this conversation, like, if your
team is ready to win, then you can invest in
(26:58):
a running back, but if your team is not, you're
almost wasting carries.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
How do you view the value of the running back
position in today's game?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Real? Simply, when when I took the Raiders job, the
first the first clip of tape, I took the John
Gruden and it was two days into being there was
seven plays from Josh Jacobs at Alabama. Because I knew
what John liked in running backs and I knew how
he matched up, and so the way I look at
the running back position in general, and I said this
(27:30):
way before last year when running backs, you know, started
to get some accord. But if you're a difference maker
in any position, I'm all in. I don't care. If
you're a guard, I don't care if you're an off
the ball linebacker, and I certainly don't care if you're
a running back. If you're a I do believe to you,
(27:53):
which is what I think you guys are arguing about.
I do believe that there's the supply and demand part
of our league. At the running back position. There's more
more quality supply maybe than any other position, which is
why they've been underpaid. Historically. You can always find a
running back that's good enough. We found a running back
(28:16):
off a practice squad one year and he had one
hundred yards in the game for us. The week later,
it was Dayton Barber, if I remember.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
So.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
You could always find a running back. But if he's special,
why not take him in the first round? Why not
pay Darrick Henry at age thirty? If he's special. I'm
all in. That's kind of the way I look at
the running back position. I know you can get a
bunch of guys at different times, but I'm all in
(28:46):
on the special guy at every position.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah, we were talking in that vein about the Seattle
San Francisco game last week earlier in the week, and
just if you just looked at the whole roster, you're
like man, Seattle's got a better roster. They're deeper, they're young,
or they're faster. But San Francisco, even though their depth
has been hit, you know, with the losses over the years,
they still had those four five star players and those
(29:09):
it was Christian McCaffrey on fourth down, it was Bosa
finished in the game with a sack. So it's like
to me, you get away from the position thing just
you got to have a handful of those blue blue
level players, those big time impact guys. I want to
take a little bit of a left turn here, Mike,
because this has came up in a conversation I had
with a GM like two days ago, and I was
(29:32):
just curious if you had any experience with this or
if if you that's one of your thoughts on it.
So we were talking about indicators and how like run
past indicators and go back to when you and Bucky
were playing. You know, used to be able to say, Okay,
how is he how is you could find alignment? That's
maybe got to tell how's he setting is he set?
In light all those different things and what this GMA
(29:53):
told me, He said, look, we got a lot of
guys from Premier programs, you know, Georgia, Alabama, like big
time programs where they have these army of analysts that
that what they're doing is looking for these tells at
a level that we've never seen before, with trained eyes
knowing what to look for. And they joke around. They
use the phrase, I don't know if you guys use
(30:14):
it all. I talk about rabbits and birds, you know,
like if it's a if it's a run, it's a rabbit.
If it's it's a bird. And it said, these guys
coming from some of these programs have gotten so good
at that because of what they've been taught and learned
that it's been become a major advantage for them. And
I thought, well, how many NFL teams. What kind of
resources are they using, you know, because the college is
(30:35):
it's unlimited what they're able to do.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yeah, yeah, and surely intriguing. I was a baseball player
and I and even in college, I remember if you're
on second base, I used to love seeing what almost
going on with the catcher signs and if you could
(30:57):
figure it out. You know, we used to have a system.
You know, I've left arm up. It was fastball right
arm like you're taking a lead and you put the
left arm out or the right arm out off speed,
you know, and if you if you had a tell,
it made things a hell of a lot easier as
a header, which is no different than a left tackle
against an edge rusher if there's a tell, right. So,
(31:17):
I have no doubt the colleges are doing that. I
have not heard much about that at.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
The end of I happen either at the NFL level.
That's why I was like, I'm missing something there.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
I think we probably there probably is some of the
better coaches that have a quality control guy that sees
something occasionally. But I don't think there's an army of
guys working at it like the college guys. No.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
But the funny thing is, like you talk about an
army guys working at it. Old school football, that was
always a big thing that was discussed in meeting rooms
amongst players, where you talk about, hey, this guy sets light.
Every time we look. This guy lines up here, he
rubs his hands, is high probability of a route coming
his way. I think some of the gamesmanship has been
(32:03):
lost a little bit in our league, and sometimes it
happens when you have young players in it. But DJ
I don't know why a team witning a sign a
handful of dues to just kind of go through and
look at the regular tape and the TV copy to
see if they can just well, something that can help
a player make a play, get a jump.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
On something, you know. Buck. The TV copies are so good,
especially the national games with all the cameras that I
kind of agree with that. It's I'd be surprised if
there isn't more of that going forward.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah, I mean that to me is where I'm assigning
my army of people if I'm the NFL, I'm saying, hey,
let's get the get that sound from the TV copy
at the line of scrimmage and see if we can't
pick something up that can help us.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Now, there's definitely some of that, I can confirm. There's
definitely some of that the coaching staffs as far as
the audio from the TV copies and trying to pick
up something. And the funny thing is with ball is
that you and I. I mean, it's funny when you
hear offensive linemen. You can go to any team in
the league. Guys all we've been at all thirty two
(33:09):
places and you pretty much what what's Leo mean, yeah, left,
we're sliding left. You know what's Roger mean we're slide
and right? What does what does Lippy mean we're sliding left?
What does Rachel mean we're sliding right?
Speaker 1 (33:27):
We forgot ripping Liz Mike don't.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Is the most basic. I mean, John John Gruden used
to have on our wall in the team room. We
used to have pictures up of all like he was
the most creative, offensive guy I think I've ever met.
And he used to have checks that were bizarre, like
he's Cindy Gruden. Cindy Gruden, which is his wife, you know,
(33:55):
And and I forget what it was, but it was
a catchy one, like he said it in front of
the Hey, Sidney Gruden, She's a blah blah blah blah chick,
and everybody laughed and thought it was funny. But every
time Durk Carr said Sidney Gruden, they knew what it
meane it was, you know. And I remember one time
he had like who was it? It was like I
(34:17):
want to say Jackie Robinson or Louke you know something.
And because he was a right handed hitter, and I'm like,
I'm like, coach, none of these guys, know, Mickey Mannle
and Jackie Robinson, You like, you gotta get a little
you know. He would he would do the singers that
he liked from the seventies. I'm like, coach, you got
to get into some of the pop I mean, some
of the culture from now if you're going to use it.
(34:38):
So Gruden was amazing. He really had a lot of
creative ways to couch his terms. But it's an interesting question.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Guys right, the right and left Buck Also, I don't
remember where I was, but I remember one point time
they were trying to do cities, so it was left coast,
you know, west coast, east coast. I remember saying Seattle,
and it is one of the guys looking around like
he couldn't tell you if Seattle was in Maine. Of course,
Seattle is in the left side of the country. Like,
I probably should ditch that. Let's just go with the
Ringo Lucky. Let's know. Uh, hey, Mike, this has been awesome, man.
(35:18):
Last thing before we let you run here? What have
you been cooking on?
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Man?
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I know everybody that you know, You've got a massive
amount of people that have followed you for so many years.
By the way, thank you for taking that job with
the Raiders. It was good for the They paid for
a lot of college tuition over at the Jeremiah House,
So I appreciate that. Well, how how the heck are
you have you been and what have you been up to?
Private school too, Mike? I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
DJ. I'm happy to take all the book for you.
I think your kids could go to good schools. Very
happy for you.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Oh no, I get to sweat your maybe like a
bumper sticker. You know, Baylor Dad, just cross it out
and say Baylor uncle.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah. My wife calls the GM years the presidential years
because she said I look seven years older for every
one year. I was like, thanks, Hn, appreciate it. Yeah.
I'll be doing some Westwood games. My schedules typically back ended.
I get a couple of playoff games. I'll do six
or seven games, probably between Thanksgiving and divisional round of
(36:24):
the playoffs. So that keeps me watching pro tape, which
I like. I'm grading college kids for summer sports, so
that keeps me watching, you know, the college tape. I
watched that defensive tackle from Clemson yesterday who's pretty freaking good,
you know, easy ever get his name Peter Woods something.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
What's that Peter Woods?
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Right? Yeah, yeah, I mean so the good thing for
me is I like staying current, and I feel like
I'm fairly current on both the NFL and the college stuff.
So I like that. I like to be able to
come on a show if you guys guys and not
really know what you're gonna ask me about. And if
we want to talk about the you know, the Ravens
game the other night, I can talk about it. If
(37:07):
we're gonna if we're going to talk about the kid
from Clemson, I can talk about it. You know. I
just like to be involved with guys like you. Both
of both of you guys love ball and you do
it the right way. And that's why I love to
be able to talk ball with guys like you.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Yeah, normally Buck Mike sends me a text message of Hey,
these are the three topics I'm comfortable with. They have
to be on these three topics. I can't go beyond that.
There are people that do that. By the way, Mike
is Mike is. It's like being out in the prairie.
We can go wherever the heck we want to talk
about whatever the heck we want. So it's been Thank
you guys. Mike, you're the best buddy. I appreciate you, man,
(37:42):
and uh, we'll see you soon. I how are we golfing?
By the way, is how's our I'm getting worse. I'm
finding out I'm getting worse with this whole soccer.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
You a golfer. I play.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
I don't play well enough to like become fanatical about
it like DJ, but I do enjoy when I'm knocking
it around a little bit.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, it's it's a game that can get get in
your blood a little bit because like I felt like
every game I ever played I was pretty good at
and golf I suck and it tried me a wall.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
He's been my he's been my therapist buck anytime. I've
probably not even lying no less than five conversations leaving
the golf course because Mike has been a good encouragement
to me. And I'm like, I'm gonna quit. This sucks.
I stopped, and He's like, just hang with it, Just
hang with that. Yeah, very encouraging.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Misery loves company.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Yeah, exactly. All right, Mike, You're the best buddy. Appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Thanks fellas,
And now move the sticks with Daniel, Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
What's up everybody walking to move the sticks? DJ, Buck?
And look who it is. It's our old buddy, Mike
Mayock joining the show. Mike. How the heck are you? Buddy?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm doing great. How you guys do it? Oh?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Come on, man, I'm fit. I'm so fired up about
this today because we get to talk all the time,
and I always felt like if we kind of take
the conversations that we have and then just like record them,
I think it would be fun content Buck, I know,
like the three of us when we've always had a
chance to get together and talk offline, it's just good
ball talk. So thanks for coming on, man, we appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
You know what's funny. I run into Bucky and airports
all the time, and I get a kick out of
it because I get to sit down next to somebody
with a cup of coffee and talk ball. And it's
the same thing. I mean, all three of us just
love talking ball.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Before we get the ball. I want to touch on
that coffee thing is Starbucks coffee is like the play
the stuff you buy out in the world. Is it
more powerful than these stupid little pods I'm drinking because
I just been drinking these little uh what is it espresso?
Not necessarily so I'm drinking those every day. I think
(01:13):
it's just water because I had a real Starbucks today,
and I feel like I've done cocaine. I feel like
off the walls right now.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
DJ, for the record, did you just confirm that you've
used cocaine?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
You could put you could put sugar, salt, caine on
the table and I wouldn't be able to tell you
which was any of the three. But I've assumed I've
seen movies, Mike, I watched Oh my gosh. All right, hey,
we want to jump into some some some football stuff
here at starting with what's going to be an awesome
game Philly casey rematch of the Super Bowl. Uh, Mike,
(01:48):
let's let's start there. And let's start, uh Philly off
of what we saw last year. A lot of new faces,
but again they get they get the job done against
Dallas Week one. What have you seen from them?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I'm I'm gonna give you a twenty second synopsis of
their offense, which is just my synopsis from three hours
of watching their offensive tape. And you guys can react
to that and disagree all you want. Point Number one,
their quarterback, Jalen Hurts, won the game for him. Okay,
his legs, his ability to scramble. I mean they had
(02:22):
back Dallas had back to back blitzes with a nickel
and a corner, both of whom came free, neither of
whom touched Jalen Hurts because he made a miss and
made plays, and that happened all night long. Their offense
wasn't real good the other night. Number one won the game.
Number two. If you're going to be in twelve and
(02:43):
thirteen personnel, your tight ends better block better. Number three,
their offensive line, which I love and give them props
all the time, did not play particularly well. Osa Odigi
Zulu number ninety seven for Dallas Quick. He caused problems
(03:04):
on the inside all night long. I didn't think Land
and Dickerson moved particularly.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Well straight up and down. Mike could Is he hurt?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, he's been hurt. They weren't sure if he was
going to make the game. He didn't play well, even
the tackles you know who rarely get criticized. My lot.
I had some struggle, struggles with the speed guys to
the outside lane. Johnson got moved with the power guys
on the other side. So when I look at that tape,
(03:33):
I give the quarterback an A plus and I give
the rest of the team about a C plus on offense.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
You know, Mike, I want to go back to the
quarterback right because I think the quarterback's evolution is one
of the more remarkable things that I've ever seen in
the draft process. Like thinking about Jalen Hurson, what he
was at Alabama before he went to Oklahoma to what
he's become.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Now, have you ever seen anything like that? And if
you have, what is the.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Secret sauce to Jayalen Hurst that has made him outperform
what we thought his draft stealing would be.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I remember, like it was yesterday, interviewing him at the
combine for the twenty twenty draft with the Raiders, and
I walked away, and you know how those meetings go.
You don't get much time with the kids, right, It's
hard to make an impression one way or the other.
I came away going Wow, I mean the adversity this
kid has dealt with in his life, the way he
(04:28):
handles it on an even keel, I think has permeated
all the way through to today. If you watch his
press conferences with the Eagles, it's all about just team
and getting better every day. He's never real high, he's
never real low. But when they need him, he plays
his best football. I mean, I thought he played outstanding
(04:51):
in both Super Bowls against Kansas City. And they got
a lot of big name stars and Saquon Barkley and
all these guys, But at the end of the day,
he's the calm influence in the locker room. They believe
in him and Buck. I think we all always know
about his legs. I think he's judicious with how he
(05:12):
uses his legs. He knows when to get down. He's
got a great feel for how many yards he can
get and not take a big shot. And the thing
that continues to improve. And I had some problems with it,
like halfway through the season a year ago. But his
pocket mechanics and ability to get the ball out quickly
I was worried about a year ago, and I think
(05:35):
he was so concerned about making turnovers he held onto
the ball. I think he's completely changed all that around.
I just think the guy every day gets a little better.
He understands what he's trying to do. He never gets
beyond himself. I'm just thoroughly impressed, not only with the
quarterback but with the person.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
That's a good way to put it, man. I was
watching it, and I was thinking, I agree with everything
that you said. There A couple other things along with
Hurtz was it's a combination of playing with some urgency.
Like there's urgency where he's playing faster to your point,
like he's sped up a little bit, but he doesn't
feel like he's doesn't feel like it's sped up on
and all he kind of knows like they leaked the
tight end out on one. He's patient when he needs
(06:18):
to be patient. He sits, lets that stuff develop and
gets it. But then he gets free runners and he
can play with urgency without panic and then make something
that makes something good happen there. It's just a poise.
I just keep if you're trying to like sum it
all up into one thing, I just go back to
the guy. He's just got tremendous poise, man, And that's
been that to me is what stands out the most
(06:39):
about what he's doing.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
But I was with you, I was.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Watching that, going is Dickerson. Maybe I saidant paid as
much attention to him because I thought the center played well,
and I was gonna it was one of the points
I was going to bring up because I wanted to
ask you about that because I Jurgen's coming out and
it was easy to see this is their style of center.
This is Kelsey like the way that he plays in
leverage and movement and all that stuff. I wanted to
ask you about that. But while I was watching him,
(07:01):
I'm like, God, Diggerson's just playing straight up and down.
He looks so stiff. But the injury there makes sense.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Mike, he had a bunch of knee stuff coming out.
We had to do not draft great on him from
our medical knee stuff. He also has a back stuff
right now. It's something to keep an eye on. He's
limited again, didn't practice yesterday. So losing mckuy beckton, you know,
(07:27):
bringing another different guard in on the right side and Steam,
there's some changes to that old line and it's gonna
be interesting to see where they go from here. Obviously,
I think they're the thing they have that helps them
as much or more than any team in the league
is they have one of the best coaches maybe in
offensive line history and Jeff Stollin and he'll figure it out.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
You know, I'm glad you brought up just out because
one thing that stood up to me Last year when
the Jaguars went to Philly to play, I had a
chance to see the Eagles operating pregame, and Mike, if
you've never seen if you're a person who is in
the ball, but if you've never.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Seen the Philadelphia Eagles work out, it is a practice
for a game. And when I mean a practice, there
are what we call no burger eaters on that team.
Everybody's working, everybody's getting ready, and if you're inactive, then
you go put on your sweats and silent. But you
don't do that, and so you do put in a
good day's work. Mike, have you ever seen anything like that?
(08:27):
And if you got back in the league, would that
be something that you would be all about when it
came to telling your coaches, Hey, this is how we
get down.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Balkutt's a great point, and I've seen it. I've seen
it a bunch of times game days, I've seen non
game days. I when I go to an Eagle practice,
I make sure I get out for the field early
just to go watch Stout work with his guys. And
you know, there's Lane Johnson about one hundred and four
years old, and he's over there and they're working hard
(08:57):
twenty five minutes before practice even arts. You know, it's
just bucky. I think it's one of it. It's it's
it's a point like there are certain ways that what
frustrates me a little bit about the NFL is there's
certain ways to do things right. Everybody wants to do
it this way, you know. I think Howie Roseman does
(09:18):
it his way. I think Jeff Stotlin does it his way.
I think the Eagles are always kind of pushing at
the edges to find better ways to do things. And
I think anybody that wants to like their offensive line
works up a frothing. They're ready to go.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
They're like a fight of sparring before event. I mean,
I mean, I've never seen anything like.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, they're just not lean, they're not just leaning on
each other. They're getting after each other. And so when
that first snap comes, it's not like they're waiting to
be hit. I mean, they've already been hit and they're
good to go. I they they're really impressive. That's why
I kind of brought up the old line today with
you guys on the overview of the game. You know,
(10:04):
you get a couple of personnel changes. I was surprised
that tackles had some bad reps. I also, I think
should give some credit to Dallas. I thought Dallas is
probably better than I thought. I thought they played their
tails off, and I think week one to week two
is a chance to take a step back and go, Okay,
(10:26):
you know, the bullets are real. We saw some things.
Now we can fix them. Coming into week two, you
got Kansas City staring in your face, and that's a
whole different conversation.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
That's where I want to go, Mike. I want to
kind of get to each side of the ball. You know,
when they're going to be facing each other, So what
kind of bounce between the Eagles and the Chiefs. But
on that last point, to wrap that up, it wasn't
only Hurts who was able to have a couple Houdini escapes.
Barkley was able with some clean runners at him to
be able to turn two three yard tackle for loss
into seven eight yard games, which is some freaky stuff.
(10:59):
Like you played game of tag in the NFL. Jalen
Hurts and Saquon Barkley would be top five picks. Just
I don't know they could. They don't get a hand
on them. They got free, free, free lane, free run
at him. But going over the chief side of things this,
I watched the tape and then I went back and
looked at all the analytics on it, and this is
why what does that phrase trust but verify? You know,
(11:20):
like you see, you see some numbers. You can't always
just take the numbers for what they are. So watching
that game live, I thought, you know, and doing all
these Charger games this as well, this is some of
the cleaner pockets that Justin Herbert's ever had the luxury
of throwing from offensive line played great, all played great.
He was a lockdown left tackle. The whole group played really,
really well, and they used the tight ends smartly with
(11:42):
Disley who can block, and Matt Locke came in there
and helped out both the backs. Chargers sneakily have two big,
physical pass protecting backs now with Hampton as well as
with Nijie Harris. So that was my takeaway. Then I
went and watched the tape and I'm like, yeah, you know,
they did play really well up front. Then I looked
at the analytics. I said, you know what, the Chiefs
the only time they got him, Trinkle had two sacks.
It's when Spags had to really he had to get
(12:04):
over aggressive and send bodies to get home because they're
not getting there with four. So then I go pff ultimate.
I pull up four man rush and it's like twenty
eight rushes and they had fourteen pressures and I'm like,
there's no way, on God's green Earth there's fourteen pressures.
So I go back and watch those plays and it's like,
you know, get to the top of your drop, hitch, hitch,
nothing there, nothing there. Herbert takes off to run and
(12:26):
maybe carloftis like touches him on the way to like
a three, And I'm like, so that's a pressure. Like
so that's why it was a good lesson. Never just
take those numbers for you know, face value there.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Now, I it's really intriguing because I do some work
for Sumer Sports where I grade, which is an analytically
driven football company. Okay, I grade college kids. I do
some NFL tape. So we have a whole bunch of
former scouts putting grades in on players. But for instance,
(12:59):
just to give you the I'm amazed where this whole
thing's going. Every NFL team has an analytics department that
seems to double by size every year. Okay, just from
a coaching helping coaches perspective, I had this what they
call the sumer Brain, which is their aipiece. I posed
a question to it and said, this is a couple
(13:21):
of weeks ago. Use Tampa Bay's defense in the last
four regular season games as your basis, and draw up
a scouting report based on what their fronts were, their coverages,
break them out by percentage, and what kind of success
run versus pass at each level on first, second, and
(13:44):
third downs. Break all that out. And I posed this
long question to AI, which would have taken two quality
control guys to sixteen hour days to do. Right, you
guys have all been there grinding that tape. Ninety seconds later,
it spits out every front, every coverage, all the percentages.
(14:11):
Now I don't know if it's all correct or not,
because garbage in, garbage out. I don't know who put
all the fronts and coverage of stuff, because I don't
know about you. But when I watch a film. I
got to watch a tape back five six times sometimes
on some of these coverages right the quarter, quarter, half quarters,
how they plan it anyway ninety seconds. So from a
(14:34):
coaches perspective, if you have this at your fingertips, think
about how more efficient you can be during a game week.
You can download all that stuff immediately. It's just but
to your point, DJ, without kind of the human eye
verifying the information. It's buyer beware is the way I
(14:58):
look at it, and it's just kind of an add
to the other information that you have already.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
You know, may' let's talk about the defense the Eagles.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
The Eagles got younger, right, so Brandon Graham goes away,
they trade away, and so now they're relying on a
bunch of young players. It's unfortunate that Jayalen Carter decided
to take himself out of the game by.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
Doing something silly and those things.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
But I kind of want to talk about that because
when they turned over a bit of their roster, they
did basically entrust some of the leadership responsibilities to one
of the young best players in Jalen Carter. So one
coming out, do you think he's ready to be the
point on the sword for the Eagles. And two, what
do you think about that front line with all their
youth and talent that they have along those that front I.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Think sometimes we put too much on young talented players
as quote leaders, and not everybody's a leader. And it's
okay to be a great football player without being a leader.
It's okay, you know. But I think, you know, there's
great all these silly sound bites I hear all the time,
(16:06):
you know, and you know, Michaeh. Parsons is going to
bring along van Ness, Lucas van Ness, and like Michaud,
do your job and everybody will be better. We're good,
you're twenty six. You just got to a new team.
I don't think Jalen Carter is a leader in a
good way. I think I think Jalen Carter is a handful,
(16:27):
always has been, probably always will be. But his physical
ability dwarfs everything else. Okay, so you called it. I
mean he did a dumb thing, and so my takeaway
is he's still immature. It's not a leadership thing for him.
And the second takeaway is that Jomo and Davis both
(16:54):
played close to ninety percent of the defensive snaps at
defensive tackle, and that's unfair to them, and it was
because of an unselfish act by Carter. So at the
end of the day, Carter still has a lot of
growing up to do, but that doesn't mean I don't
think he's a great football player and is one of
the top three or four into your players in this league.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
So in everything right on, I'm curious to see this
because when I watched this and I knew you were
coming on a lot of times we share it with
very similar take on players and what we enjoy what
we watch. So I have someone who's established themselves as
my favorite player on this Eagles defense to watch, and
I don't want to get say anymore. I've written it
down just I wanted to see what you watched in
(17:41):
just the style of which this guy I'm a huge fan.
So I'm curious to see Mike when you watch that tape,
who is a Mike Mayott guy watching that tape?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Well, number fifty three is ridiculous, Even saying he's ridiculous.
The play where he chased the guy down the running
back down in the third or fourth quarter from behind,
strip it and he caught it. He looks like he
was shot out of again and chases him down from
(18:14):
behind him trying to rip it out, and that play
set up the strip sack by Jahad Campbell picked up
by Quinnyon Mitchell, the only turnover of the game. If
Zach Bond doesn't chase that thing down, Eagles probably lose.
I'm also a huge fan of this Cooper Degen Mmm,
(18:35):
he's probably the most the second most talented corner on
their roster, but they like him so much at Nickel.
I don't think that. I don't think Vic wants to
put him out wide, And I would also tell you
I'm not sure the answer out wide other than Cooper
dejen is on that roster. Yeah, Tory Jackson got torched.
(18:59):
I'm not sure they have an answer.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
For not Cory and Bennett either, And it came in.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
He also had a I mean the Eagles had seven
defensive penalties of the nine, you know, in addition to
Jaalen Carter, there were three defensive pass interference penalties. There
was a tawning penalty by Nolan Smith. There were two
unnecessary roughness penalties. I mean, Vick's got to get that
(19:24):
kind of reeled in, but DJ we went off target.
There did I did I hit either of your guys?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Nolan somebody. This is my theory. This is my theory
on Nolan Smith. Yeah, Nolan Smith. Somebody told him you're
six foot five, two hundred and eighty five pounds, and
he just believes it because he plays so much bigger
than he is. I could just watch him versus poets.
I wonder if you're like a guard and you're watching
(19:52):
tape every week going like I didn't do I really
want to pull this week, This freaking four to four
missile just wants to take my head off every time
I go to try and pull him, and then he
just pressure after he gets into pads. He he must
have had five or six bull pressures where just taking
him right back to the quarterback. And I'm like, this
guy plays like he's two hundred and seventy five eight pounds.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
You know why he does? In all honesty, you know,
I'm sitting here in Philly keeping an eye on him
every week. Last year, he didn't. He barely got in
a game for the first six, seven, eight weeks of
the season. Another reason why Vic Fangio called him out
every week, Like they get in a press conference and
every week the reporters would say, well, how come Nolan
(20:34):
Smith will isn't playing? He said, until he stops the run,
he's not getting on the field. And so the reason
he attacks the pullers the way he does, and he
does it every whether it's a tight end hard, it
doesn't matter. And he closes down there. Excuse me, he
compresses those holes on the back side of that state.
(20:56):
It's unbelievable. So I think Nolan Smith is becoming one
of the better edge guys in the leg run in
pass and I think it's his natural ability. He's a
willingness to work and this old curmudgeon by the name
of Vic Fangio and Buck.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
This is where the numbers come into play because I'm
watching this and I'm like, he's kind of he's dominating
up front, but he doesn't have any like wins. He
didn't have a lot of, you know, production to go
along with it. So then that's when like, I love
the win rate number and you go look at it.
For week one, I think he had like the fifth
or sixth highest win rate and I'm like, well, that's
what he's doing. He's just beating the crap out of
(21:37):
the guy over him. Every single snap. So I can
appreciate that, you know, but I want to go.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Back to the Vic Fangio thing, right because at a
time when the league is getting younger, Mike, I want
to lean into your experiences as a gentleman jan as
a player.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
I still believe that old school works when it comes
to coaching.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
So can you talk to me a little bit about
Fangio's way and the positive impact has had.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
On the defense.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Buck Here's what I've learned. I'm sixty when I'm sixty
seven years old now and I've been around it my
whole life. And here's what I've learned is that players
very quickly figure out which coaches can help them become
better players and help them become better teams on a
(22:24):
quest for a Super Bowl. So they quickly figure it out,
can this guy help me or not? And if he
can't help them, and it doesn't matter whether the guy's
thirty two or Vix my age, he's like you were
the same. I think he's sixty seven. I mean, if
the sixty seven year old can help you, they're all in.
(22:45):
And what really helps Vic and I think all these
guys is when you're honest with players They might not
always like it, but they respect it. I think there's
a tendency with too many coaches these days n gms
to be honest with you, to kind of sugarcoat things
(23:08):
and say to a player, well, you know, don't worry,
just keep working. You'll play it. You know you're gonna
play soon next week. Then the player goes, well, why
didn't I play next week? And vic LuxI in the
ay and said, what'd you do in practice on Thursday
when that poller came out? Did you attack them? No,
you're not playing? And Buck I just I'm with you.
(23:30):
I think there's an old school respect that really matters,
even if you're twenty one years old. And I think
players figure it out real quickly.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
I want to get back to Kansas City, Mike. We
you know, we're talking a little bit about to me
defensively with them, they got to figure out a way
to get home without having to send a bunch of
guys like that's something to keep an eye with them.
But then flip it over to the offense. Is someone
who's the GM in that division had to deal with them?
You know that's a it's a chore with mahomes, did
you guys have like Jordan rules Mahomes rules at all,
(24:00):
trying and slow them down.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yeah, I mean pretty much. There was a focus, especially
with the edge rushers, not to get up the field
further than Mahomes' depth. Yeah, and you know that's a
basic but when you play any quarterback that can step
up and go, like, the thing you hate the most
with any quarterback, but especially Patrick Mahomes, is when he
(24:24):
has the ability to step up either directly up into
the pocket or directly on an angle inside that defensive
end because now he can threaten run pass immediately. It's
not like he's running latterly away from the line of scrimmage.
It's like he's coming, stepping up and now it's like, okay,
what are your choices as a defense? You can defend.
(24:46):
You can defend these guys for six seconds perfectly, and
he's still going to find Kelsey on some kind of
weird route. Right. So the Kelsey thing was really brutal
because you trying to tell guys how to cover him
is unbelievable because they're innate. Feel for each other is
something like I've never seen The routes they run are
(25:10):
just you know, it's just they feel leverage, and they
both see it the same way. I think when when
I look at that team right now, I see a
couple of things on offense, like not a dynamic run team.
We're not last year, don't have a dynamic runner. I
(25:32):
think they averaged four yards of carry last year and
that was twenty eighth, twenty ninth in the league. Whatever.
So run game is not dynamic, hasn't been for a
year plus a week past game. When you lose Rashi
Rice and Xavier Worthy, now you're fighting for pass game. Also,
(25:54):
you know, so is Kelsey the same guy. We're going
to figure that out. It puts an awful lot of
press and a revamped left side of the offensive line,
which will continue to get better. But it puts an
awful lot of pressure on the quarterback, and I think
it did last year. And I'm not talking about quote
(26:15):
external pressure. I'm just talking about pressure to produce, right buck.
I mean, if you don't have a dynamic run game
and you're struggling to throw the ball, it comes down
to your all world quarterback to stand on his head
and win games.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Look, it's funny because we talked about it being a
quarterback driven league.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
And it is.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
But the league is cyclical and it's coming back to
where the running game is still important. The only way
to get people out of these two high looks you
have to be able to run it and run it effectively. So, Mike,
now that we're kind of talking about lack of a
dynamic runner for Kansas City, where do we value running backs?
DJ and I always have this conversation, like, if your
team is ready to win, then you can invest in
(26:58):
a running back, but if your team is not, you're
almost wasting carries.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
How do you view the value of the running back
position in today's game?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Real? Simply, when when I took the Raiders job, the
first the first clip of tape, I took the John
Gruden and it was two days into being there was
seven plays from Josh Jacobs at Alabama. Because I knew
what John liked in running backs and I knew how
he matched up, and so the way I look at
the running back position in general, and I said this
(27:30):
way before last year when running backs, you know, started
to get some accord. But if you're a difference maker
in any position, I'm all in. I don't care. If
you're a guard, I don't care if you're an off
the ball linebacker, and I certainly don't care if you're
a running back. If you're a I do believe to you,
(27:53):
which is what I think you guys are arguing about.
I do believe that there's the supply and demand part
of our league. At the running back position. There's more
more quality supply maybe than any other position, which is
why they've been underpaid. Historically. You can always find a
running back that's good enough. We found a running back
(28:16):
off a practice squad one year and he had one
hundred yards in the game for us. The week later,
it was Dayton Barber, if I remember.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
So.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
You could always find a running back. But if he's special,
why not take him in the first round? Why not
pay Darrick Henry at age thirty? If he's special. I'm
all in. That's kind of the way I look at
the running back position. I know you can get a
bunch of guys at different times, but I'm all in
(28:46):
on the special guy at every position.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah, we were talking in that vein about the Seattle
San Francisco game last week earlier in the week, and
just if you just looked at the whole roster, you're
like man, Seattle's got a better roster. They're deeper, they're young,
or they're faster. But San Francisco, even though their depth
has been hit, you know, with the losses over the years,
they still had those four five star players and those
(29:09):
it was Christian McCaffrey on fourth down, it was Bosa
finished in the game with a sack. So it's like
to me, you get away from the position thing just
you got to have a handful of those blue blue
level players, those big time impact guys. I want to
take a little bit of a left turn here, Mike,
because this has came up in a conversation I had
with a GM like two days ago, and I was
(29:32):
just curious if you had any experience with this or
if if you that's one of your thoughts on it.
So we were talking about indicators and how like run
past indicators and go back to when you and Bucky
were playing. You know, used to be able to say, Okay,
how is he how is you could find alignment? That's
maybe got to tell how's he setting is he set?
In light all those different things and what this GMA
(29:53):
told me, He said, look, we got a lot of
guys from Premier programs, you know, Georgia, Alabama, like big
time programs where they have these army of analysts that
that what they're doing is looking for these tells at
a level that we've never seen before, with trained eyes
knowing what to look for. And they joke around. They
use the phrase, I don't know if you guys use
(30:14):
it all. I talk about rabbits and birds, you know,
like if it's a if it's a run, it's a rabbit.
If it's it's a bird. And it said, these guys
coming from some of these programs have gotten so good
at that because of what they've been taught and learned
that it's been become a major advantage for them. And
I thought, well, how many NFL teams. What kind of
resources are they using, you know, because the college is
(30:35):
it's unlimited what they're able to do.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yeah, yeah, and surely intriguing. I was a baseball player
and I and even in college, I remember if you're
on second base, I used to love seeing what almost
going on with the catcher signs and if you could
(30:57):
figure it out. You know, we used to have a system.
You know, I've left arm up. It was fastball right
arm like you're taking a lead and you put the
left arm out or the right arm out off speed,
you know, and if you if you had a tell,
it made things a hell of a lot easier as
a header, which is no different than a left tackle
against an edge rusher if there's a tell, right. So,
(31:17):
I have no doubt the colleges are doing that. I
have not heard much about that at.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
The end of I happen either at the NFL level.
That's why I was like, I'm missing something there.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
I think we probably there probably is some of the
better coaches that have a quality control guy that sees
something occasionally. But I don't think there's an army of
guys working at it like the college guys. No.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
But the funny thing is, like you talk about an
army guys working at it. Old school football, that was
always a big thing that was discussed in meeting rooms
amongst players, where you talk about, hey, this guy sets light.
Every time we look. This guy lines up here, he
rubs his hands, is high probability of a route coming
his way. I think some of the gamesmanship has been
(32:03):
lost a little bit in our league, and sometimes it
happens when you have young players in it. But DJ
I don't know why a team witning a sign a
handful of dues to just kind of go through and
look at the regular tape and the TV copy to
see if they can just well, something that can help
a player make a play, get a jump.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
On something, you know. Buck. The TV copies are so good,
especially the national games with all the cameras that I
kind of agree with that. It's I'd be surprised if
there isn't more of that going forward.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah, I mean that to me is where I'm assigning
my army of people if I'm the NFL, I'm saying, hey,
let's get the get that sound from the TV copy
at the line of scrimmage and see if we can't
pick something up that can help us.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Now, there's definitely some of that, I can confirm. There's
definitely some of that the coaching staffs as far as
the audio from the TV copies and trying to pick
up something. And the funny thing is with ball is
that you and I. I mean, it's funny when you
hear offensive linemen. You can go to any team in
the league. Guys all we've been at all thirty two
(33:09):
places and you pretty much what what's Leo mean, yeah, left,
we're sliding left. You know what's Roger mean we're slide
and right? What does what does Lippy mean we're sliding left?
What does Rachel mean we're sliding right?
Speaker 1 (33:27):
We forgot ripping Liz Mike don't.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Is the most basic. I mean, John John Gruden used
to have on our wall in the team room. We
used to have pictures up of all like he was
the most creative, offensive guy I think I've ever met.
And he used to have checks that were bizarre, like
he's Cindy Gruden. Cindy Gruden, which is his wife, you know,
(33:55):
And and I forget what it was, but it was
a catchy one, like he said it in front of
the Hey, Sidney Gruden, She's a blah blah blah blah chick,
and everybody laughed and thought it was funny. But every
time Durk Carr said Sidney Gruden, they knew what it
meane it was, you know. And I remember one time
he had like who was it? It was like I
(34:17):
want to say Jackie Robinson or Louke you know something.
And because he was a right handed hitter, and I'm like,
I'm like, coach, none of these guys, know, Mickey Mannle
and Jackie Robinson, You like, you gotta get a little
you know. He would he would do the singers that
he liked from the seventies. I'm like, coach, you got
to get into some of the pop I mean, some
of the culture from now if you're going to use it.
(34:38):
So Gruden was amazing. He really had a lot of
creative ways to couch his terms. But it's an interesting question.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Guys right, the right and left Buck Also, I don't
remember where I was, but I remember one point time
they were trying to do cities, so it was left coast,
you know, west coast, east coast. I remember saying Seattle,
and it is one of the guys looking around like
he couldn't tell you if Seattle was in Maine. Of course,
Seattle is in the left side of the country. Like,
I probably should ditch that. Let's just go with the
Ringo Lucky. Let's know. Uh, hey, Mike, this has been awesome, man.
(35:18):
Last thing before we let you run here? What have
you been cooking on?
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Man?
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I know everybody that you know, You've got a massive
amount of people that have followed you for so many years.
By the way, thank you for taking that job with
the Raiders. It was good for the They paid for
a lot of college tuition over at the Jeremiah House,
So I appreciate that. Well, how how the heck are
you have you been and what have you been up to?
Private school too, Mike? I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
DJ. I'm happy to take all the book for you.
I think your kids could go to good schools. Very
happy for you.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Oh no, I get to sweat your maybe like a
bumper sticker. You know, Baylor Dad, just cross it out
and say Baylor uncle.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah. My wife calls the GM years the presidential years
because she said I look seven years older for every
one year. I was like, thanks, Hn, appreciate it. Yeah.
I'll be doing some Westwood games. My schedules typically back ended.
I get a couple of playoff games. I'll do six
or seven games, probably between Thanksgiving and divisional round of
(36:24):
the playoffs. So that keeps me watching pro tape, which
I like. I'm grading college kids for summer sports, so
that keeps me watching, you know, the college tape. I
watched that defensive tackle from Clemson yesterday who's pretty freaking good,
you know, easy ever get his name Peter Woods something.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
What's that Peter Woods?
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Right? Yeah, yeah, I mean so the good thing for
me is I like staying current, and I feel like
I'm fairly current on both the NFL and the college stuff.
So I like that. I like to be able to
come on a show if you guys guys and not
really know what you're gonna ask me about. And if
we want to talk about the you know, the Ravens
game the other night, I can talk about it. If
(37:07):
we're gonna if we're going to talk about the kid
from Clemson, I can talk about it. You know. I
just like to be involved with guys like you. Both
of both of you guys love ball and you do
it the right way. And that's why I love to
be able to talk ball with guys like you.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Yeah, normally Buck Mike sends me a text message of Hey,
these are the three topics I'm comfortable with. They have
to be on these three topics. I can't go beyond that.
There are people that do that. By the way, Mike
is Mike is. It's like being out in the prairie.
We can go wherever the heck we want to talk
about whatever the heck we want. So it's been Thank
you guys. Mike, you're the best buddy. I appreciate you, man,
(37:42):
and uh, we'll see you soon. I how are we golfing?
By the way, is how's our I'm getting worse. I'm
finding out I'm getting worse with this whole soccer.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
You a golfer. I play.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
I don't play well enough to like become fanatical about
it like DJ, but I do enjoy when I'm knocking
it around a little bit.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, it's it's a game that can get get in
your blood a little bit because like I felt like
every game I ever played I was pretty good at
and golf I suck and it tried me a wall.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
He's been my he's been my therapist buck anytime. I've
probably not even lying no less than five conversations leaving
the golf course because Mike has been a good encouragement
to me. And I'm like, I'm gonna quit. This sucks.
I stopped, and He's like, just hang with it, Just
hang with that. Yeah, very encouraging.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Misery loves company.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Yeah, exactly. All right, Mike, You're the best buddy. Appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Thanks fellas,
Hosts And Creators
Daniel Jeremiah
Bucky Brooks
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