April 29, 2025 • 32 mins
On the latest Move the Sticks podcast, Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks recap the 2025 NFL Draft and highlight why the pre-draft process plays such a critical role in shaping where players are selected, especially quarterbacks. The guys then dive into a round of player comps, drawing connections between this year’s draft picks and players their coaches or GMs have worked with before. Finally, they break down some of the top defensive tackles and edge rushers taken and debate which prospects offer the best value and fit for their new teams.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now move the sticks with Daniel, Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
What's up, everybody? Welcome to move the sticks? DJ, Buck
with you? Buck? How you doing, man, I'm good.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
DJ.
Speaker 4 (00:12):
It's the first time that you and I've gotten together
since the draft and all the chaos. I got to
command you on the job that you did. I didn't
get a chance to see it or hear it because
we were working simultaneously. But the feedback that I got
and the advice that you gave to one your der
Sanders was I much need it everything. After all the
conversations post draft that I've.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Heard, well, I appreciate that and congrats to you.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
And I heard like I got some of the number
of reports for all the stuff you guys were doing,
and it was like crazy growth, man. So it's fun
to see all the different ways we kind of communicate
with the masses during during the draft and to see
just the entire thing just continue to grow and build
is is pretty cool. So I'm excited to catch up
with you in the I've got one of the things
(00:57):
I wanted to hit on, and we'll get to it
in just a minute. But I wanted to hit on
how and we've seen this before, how your relationship in
history with players at previous stops or years passing your
organization informs your decisions on the guys you draft because
you think you've you've coached this type of player before.
And so I got a list of players that I
(01:17):
want to get your thoughts on. But we're gonna get
to that in just a minute. But first of all,
it's time for Hot or Not, brought to you by
with Sabi Hot Cloud Storage. So I mean, I look,
we'll start there. We don't need to spend a ton
of time on it. Everybody's said their piece. We both
had a chance to say our thoughts on it. But
the more time removed from the from the chador thing,
the draft thing, My my biggest takeaway, Buck might be
(01:39):
this will probably be.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
You know, we talk about teaching tape or what have.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
You, but this is this is probably a reason why
agents matter, you know, why why you could say, if
you're an agent, I would I would use this as
a you know, as an example of why you should
hire an agent. And there's a reason why, Buck, that
these these training facilities make so much money where they
bring these kids in. It's not just to teach him
(02:04):
how to run a three cone like, I think it's
to kind of help you guide you through the process,
because I think that was where things kind of fell
off track.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
That's how I looked at it.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Okay, So before we talk about Shador, I want to
use Jackson Dart as the example. And the reason why
I want to use Jackson Dart as the example is
during Super Bowl we had an opportunity in the viewing room,
Jackson Dart and his dad came through. Jackson Dart was
sitting up beside us. He was asking questions and really
wanted to dig into the process before I think that
(02:33):
was was that before the Singer Bowl, is before the
Senior Bowl.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
So whatever we were watching, we were doing Saturday games.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
And so he comes through, he does that, he has
all the questions, he does all of data whatever. And
I don't know if you had a chance to see
the phone call that Brian Dable and Joe Shane made
to Jackson Dart, and one of the first things they
said is like, man, you kill the process.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
You really crushed the process.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Both guys said it individual to him about the process.
And it was at that moment when I saw that
I was like, oh, that process is really everything and
maybe not even in my own navita because we've all
worked for teams or whatever, but in a different time,
that process for quarterbacks is really unique and different. And
(03:20):
then I went back and I had an opportunity to
see the clips from Hard Knocks last year where the
Giants kind of went through the quarterback process with Jayden Daniels,
Drake May and all that, and they really gave access
to how they go about it, and Joe and that
clip talked about, Look, this process that we feel like
we've honed down has been very successful for us throughout
(03:40):
the years, not only with the guys that we acquired
Josh Allen when they went through the process in Buffalo,
but the other guys who've killed this process, like a
Jayden Daniels, they also.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Had success in the league.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
And so what that led me to believe is if
you're a player, and let's just say Shadur didn't prepare
to really crush this process after watching how they go
about it, there's no your way. You can fake your
way through it, Like it's not a process, Like I
want everyone to understand, this is not one where you
can go to the class, not study the test, but like, hey,
(04:12):
I'm a wing it, it's not one that you can
do it. You really got to prepare. You really got
to know the ins and outs. And it's not only
about knowing your stuff, it's how do you articulate the
game to others? How do you articulate your level of
knowledge in those things? And amid chaos in an interview session.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
So if you didn't take that.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Part seriously, if you didn't approach this like you and
I would say to our kids on a regular job,
you go for a job interview a wear your blue suit,
make sure your shoes are polish, make sure you come
in there. Have you researched a company? Do you know
who you're talking to? Have you researched them? Do you
have all of the answers to be able to like
a swat analysis test? What are my strengths? What are
(04:55):
my weaknesses? How am I working to make those weaknesses
my strengths? All of those things that we would tell, well,
if you don't approach the NFL job interview like that,
it'll come back and get you.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
And I think that's what we saw.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah, And I think first of all, to correct the
timeline you're correct. I'm now like going back in my head,
So Senior Bowl would have been before the Super Bowl,
so he had done he had been through the Senior
Bowl process. He came in, watched the Super Bowl. But
I mean he asked a bazillion questions about like when
you're meeting with teams the combine and well, you you know,
when you're going through this process, and then at the
pro day and at the workout, it's like, how you know,
(05:29):
how do what are they looking for? What do I
need to convey? What are the things you'd think I
need to work on? Like there was some awareness there,
and that's really probably the biggest thing is just the awareness.
And I was going back through it, and you know,
we've seen in years past, because I think people will go, oh,
you know, we see all these top quarterbacks. They don't
throw at the combine or they don't do this and that,
and they kind of choose what they want to do.
I'm like, you have to know where you are, not
(05:50):
just in how confident you are on your ability, but
you have to know where your stock is. So cam Ward,
he was viewed as the top guy, and that gap
just kept getting wider and wider, So cam Ord didn't
need to throw at the combine, cam Ward didn't need
to go to All Star games. Like cam Ward was
a made man for lack of a better phrase, But
when you look at the quarterbacks that went next, Buck
(06:12):
Jackson Dart Full Process Senior Bowl included Tyler Schuck, Full
Process Senior Bowl included Jalen Milroe. Full Process Senior Bowl
included Dylan Gabriel. Full Process Senior Bowl included Like those
guys knew that, Hey, I'm not in that tier, so
I got to do all the stuff along the way
to get me, you know, to have teams, you know,
(06:34):
want to pick me, because there's a difference between it's
the love and the like. If teams love you, they're
going to they're not going to be as demanding of
the process. If teams like you, it is your job
to make them love you. Does that make any sense?
That don't know what it was.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
And I also think that everyone has to understand that
there is a shift that's going on international Football League,
not just with quarterbacks but with all players.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
And I think we heard it repeatedly.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
We heard it on your telecast where they talked about
guys are really going after players who really love ball,
Like DJ, think about how many times in the past
we will say that, But there's a concerted effort by
teams to make sure that the guys they acquire love ball.
And I'm gonna use the Jaguars as an example. One
of the things that general manager James Glasstone talked about
(07:22):
when he first took the job is, Hey, it's not
about us setting the culture. It's us bringing in the
players who change the culture just by being themselves. And
the way that they change the culture is they already
have these things where they want to be great, they
want to come to work, they want to do extra
all this, So DJ, what they did is people will
(07:43):
tell you, and I'll tell you the story about Travis Hunter.
Travis Commers. Hunter comes into the facility after being selected.
He goes through and does all the stuff, and then
he's looking to change clothes so he can go work
out with the team, and they're like, no, you can't
do that yet, but but that's how he was.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
And then the other thing that came out.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
You know this because you were at the Senior Bowl,
so Jack Kaiser, I didn't notice, but evidently during the game.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I switch everyone plays safety.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Everybody opted out. He's an inside linebacker by trade. But
on game that he was like, oh cool, I'll go
and play safety. And there was someone else who played
on both sides or whatever.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
They drafted him and they said.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
We want guys who embraced all aspects of the process,
even if it will put you in a position to
not look at your best, to not look like you
know what you're doing, because you love ball so much
that you're like, hey, I'll do everything.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
And he talked about last year.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Was Braden fisk I played on ball, switch team, played
on both teams.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yeah, he switched teams.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
So and so DJ So.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Now when you have all those quarterbacks like Jalen Milroe
and Tyler Shuck and Jack Dark, they're all going through
the process and all willingly doing everything, you stick out
like a sore thumb when you don't participate like that.
And even though we're in the thing where everyone is
celebrating the player empowerment era, you're empowered to do whatever
you want to do. You can opt out or whatever.
(09:07):
But I'm telling you now, it ain't like it used
to be. They're judging on that, and some of the
other guys like a Will Johnson, like Will Johnson elected.
Not okay, But what they're doing is if they have
somewhere where we can complete all the boxes and tie
up all the loose ends, I'm gonna take the prospect
that I know everything about as opposed to the prospect
that has some unknowns.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
The one thing because we talked about, you know, we
tackled this subject from a lot of different areas on
TV over the three days, and you know, try and
be measured and reasonable and everything, and I try and
give people a look inside when you've been inside.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Those buildings and what that would look like.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
The only thing that I that I said that I
got some that I I's see all the feedback. But
the one thing that was brought to my attention with
some negative attention off what I said was at one
point time, I said, when he had kept sliding. I said,
if I were, if I were advising him, what I
would tell him was of the teams you met with.
Now that's not all thirty two.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
But I would call them.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
I would call him and say, hey, something got miscommunicated
to this problem. I want you to know that, Like,
I'm a football player, and this is my desire and passion.
I'm coming there to work, Like this is not about
you know, production value or any of this other stuff
that you might associate with me, Like, I just want
an opportunity. I will compete my butt off, and I'm
gonna make us a better team. Let's start there. I'm
gonna earn everything.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
But like and then.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
People were like, oh, you're asking him, do you want
him to call and beg teams? And I'm like, no, no, no,
that's not that's not at all what I'm saying. What
I'm saying is if I went and inter personally, if
I went interviewed for a job that I wanted and
then I heard, you know what, they didn't like some
of the things you said in the interview, I don't
think they're going to hire you. My first thing would
be like, let me call it, hey, sir, I know
in our conversation I interviewed maybe the way that didn't
(10:46):
come across the right way, But I want to let
you know that I'm going to work as hard as
I possibly can, like I'm the right guy for this job.
That's not begging for a job, So that's that's not
lowering yourself. That's just trying to be proactive and show
a commitment to make sure that we're on the same page.
And at the end of the day, if you want
to go somewhere else, that's fine, but I want you
to have a proper understanding of what I'm about.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
That's all I was saying.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
So a couple of things with that because I saw
that and I to me, it was sensible.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
It makes sense. If I want the job, go get
the job.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Like that's one of the things like in civilian life,
if you want a job doing that interview, it's important
for you to convey to the person interviewing you, I
want this job, and if I get this job, here's
how I'm gonna perform in that job. And it's a
way to not only display confidence but also humility and saying, hey,
I'm about the team, I'm this and that. That's also
(11:38):
where lack of representation heard them, because representation, that's a
person who could.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Be having that conversation like, hey, I talked to this
team and they said that you said answered this question
this way, and that rubbed them the wrong way.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Like, well, we need to go let's we need you
guys on the phone together.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Yeah, we need to go clean it up. We need
to get on the zoom. We need to make sure
that everyone clearly understands.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
That part of it.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
The other thing that I did on DJ because then
people talked about the fall and the slide and all
of that stuff, But I was trying to let people
know in the draft, what happens is you have the
vertical board, you.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Have the horizontal board.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Horizontal board is the positions and order what happens DJ.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
If we are a team that doesn't need.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
A quarterback, even though Shuder is there, that doesn't change
our process. And I know we can talk about best
player available, but best player available is a thing that
we use as we're checking off needs in those things,
it's just not a we're going willy nilly and just
taking random players at the top of the board that
don't necessarily job And particularly when you're the first three rounds,
(12:42):
the guys that you take in the first three.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Rounds of guys that we're projecting the starters.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
So if I don't have an immediate need at quarterback,
we can acknowledge that a player is worthy of doing that,
but we're not seriously entertaining or considering that there's a
level of the draft where we get to then now
we'll begin to consider. Okay, look, we don't have the need,
but this guy was rated as the second round player.
He's in the fifth round. Let's take him just from
(13:07):
a value standpoint, which is what I believe the Browns
got to. But I'm gonna say this, it's really sticky
in the Browns quarterback room just because of the pecking order.
So when you take Dylan Gabril in the third round, DJA,
your third round pick is on the team. So we
can sit here and talk about it's an open competition,
(13:28):
but your third round pick is on the team. So
now this competition is because it's your version during pick
a kit, that's the competition.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
So that's what it is. I think we've exhausted.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
We've talked about this a lot, and I would rather
like not being disrespectful to I'd rather talk about some
of the other guys had an opportunity to do their.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Thing, because that's what I mean.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
I felt like the telecasts became all about Sanders, and
we just want to make sure that others get love
for their opportunities to go.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
And you know the subject manager that your product.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, yep, that was this week's Hotter segment brought to
you by with Sabi hot Cloud storage, Store more and
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wassabi dot com. All right, Buck, let's take Let's take
just a quick pause and we'll come back because I've
got I got some names. I'm run by you, and
i want to get your thoughts on the comparisons with
coaches or general managers that they had a previous player
(14:19):
that might have informed their decision. So we'll get to
that list right after this. All right, Buck, First up,
this one is an easy one. H Pete Carroll Ashton
Genty stylistically Marshawn Lynch like he appreciates that style and
that brand of runner.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Absolutely absolutely, look DJ It's one of those things that
was the easiest one to mock when you're going through the.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Mock and you're like raiders Aston Genty could be there.
Would he do it? Yes? Why?
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Because displayer gives him what he's always wanted, a workhorse
runner who can do all the grimy stuff. But also
as a fact in the passing game, and for people
who really haven't been reminded of how good Marshawn Lynch was,
it wasn't just beastmode running. There was a time there
did whenever they needed a go to play in the
(15:13):
passing game, the.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Ball went to Marshawn Lynz. Like that's how good he was.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
He was so good out of the backfield first coming
out of Caw and then he goes into the league
and then when he gets to Seattle, Man, they really
tapped into that. To me, I believe Pete Carroll is
kind of recreating some of that offense that he previously
had in Seattle to have the Raiders get back on
track and close the gap on the competitors. Asking Gensy
is the workhorse, the lynch pin to that offense being
(15:40):
able to kind of play that stole.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah, and they're going to be able to finish games
with him too. I mean, think about all those games
that Marshawn Lynch is kind of put away. You know, Hey,
they got a good defense. You know they've got a
good front. I should say they have some other pieces
they need to fill in, but they hey, if we
can get out to a lead, he can salt the
game away here and Pete Carroll's always appreciate having somebody
like that. All right, next one, there's two teams that
(16:03):
hit this one. So I'm gonna go with the Chicago Bears, okay,
and then I'm gonna come back with the New York Jets.
They took Colston Loveland in Chicago, and they took Mason Taylor.
With the Jets, you had head coach for Chicago, Ben Johnson,
who came from Detroit with Sam Laporta head coach New
(16:25):
York Jets. You had Aaron Glenn who came from Detroit
with Sam Laporta.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I think Sam.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Laporta helped place both those guys in those teams because
I think you look at Loveland, you look at Mason Taylor,
you know, size, speed, stylistically.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
There's a lot of similarities to a guy like Sam Laporta.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
That was the first thing that came up to me
when I saw Loveland go over top of Tyler Warren.
I was like Ben Johnson was doing his evaluations and
he was like, Man Lovelan reminds me a lot of
Sam Report. I could do a lot of the same
things I did with the Porter with him, and I'm
being honest, Djay, I felt like he did the same
thing with Luther Burton. I feel like Luther Burdon was
a bit of a I've seen big I felt like
(17:03):
he said, Oh, I can recreate the offense that I
just had.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
I got all of these guys.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
I got an alpha dog competitor and slave receiver in Burden,
and then I have Lovelin who can do all this stuff.
With Sam on the porter, I can set my quarterback
up success without really having to deviate too far from
the system and the scheme and the way that I
want to play by now getting the personnel that I'm
very familiar with and comfortable with from my time in Detroit.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
And then last one for those teams, let's go Aaron
Glenn New York Jets. They decided with their first pick
to take a big, physical, run blocking right tackle who
isn't completely as polished in the past game. But we're
going to dominate physically and we're going to develop more
as a pass protector. That remind you of anybody from Detroit.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Oh, maybe let's see Pa. So maybe maybe we'll take
a big dude.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
That anchor that offensive line and to give us what
it is that we want to have in terms of
as a team, we want to be a physical team.
We eventually want to run the ball, we want to
protect the quarterback and all those things.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Man.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
You know, it's funny because the conversation on Membu DJ,
I was getting feedback from some people like, man, I
don't think he's a great I'm not in love.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
With him, from so many people in the business.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
I was like, yeah, I don't get that.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
I was like, I definitely don't see that. Like I
see a really good play here, who can do.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
A lot, and I think the Jets certainly saw that,
and man, having him anchor it down talking about a
right tackle that can really get physical and establish it
at the point of attack, it certainly works.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
For them, and it worked for Detroit for a long time.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yep, this one I don't see. I don't agree with
this comparison quite as much, but I understand what the
goal is here, and that's what Ted McMillan and Mike Evans,
you know, trying to draw the connection with Dave Canalis
coming from Tampa.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
So it's funny that you wrote it up because I
feel like the Tampa situation impacted two teams.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
It impacted the Carolina Panthers, with Ted.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
McMillan being the Mike Evans type basically recreating it right.
So I could see Dave Canal is looking at and Okay,
I got Tevic Millan over here. He is Mike Evans.
I have Xavier Laguette over here. He's going to be
my Chris Gottwin type. I got two big bodied playmakers
that are going to expand the strike.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Zone for Bryce Young.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
I also believe down in Tampa a mecha Abuka gives
them what they had. He's like, oh, I got someone
that can be an easy replacement for either one of
these guys, presumably Mike Evans if he doesn't resign after
next year. They now have two big guys that they
can play with that they've always kind of operated with
that has really helped Baker Mayfield.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
So I do believe you're right.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Everyone kind of has a blueprint that they prefer to follow,
and that blueprint is established along the way, either with
the player that they've come in contact with or being
in an organization.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
And you had a lot of success operating a certain way.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Mm how about this one? Emon Wari got picked in
Seattle and everybody was doing the oh they got the
new cam Chancellor, And I'm sitting here going, oh, no,
Mike McDonald came from Baltimore and he's got is Kyle
Hamilton Like that's he knows how to use that big
player in that role and it's so good. He's a
kind of a faster version of Kyle Hamilton.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Means such such a good like such a good fit,
such a good pick.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
Not only that, because you're talking about em and worry
like kind of dropping in there, but how about John
Snyder and those guys looking and seeing a bigger, faster
Cam Chancellor and being like, oh, you know, it kind
of reminds me of we've had success in this model
using this kind of player. Yeah, DJ it works, I believe,
And I know people hate when we do the comparison things,
(20:33):
but I'm telling you every coach it does this.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
This guy reminds me of this. This is what I'm
gonna do with him if he comes in. He's that.
And when we are presenting a.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Player to the coach and said hey, coach, he kind
of reminds us of the coach immediately said, oh, okay,
this is a game plan for how we use a
player that has that.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
This is what we did with him. We'll do the
same things and it'll work. For him as well.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
All right, this one was a fun one. Me Sean
Payton goes and gets R. J. Harvey, which is his
Darren Sproles.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Oh yeah, Darren spos had a lot of success for
the Saints.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
I mean, he was a very impactful player, and he
was part of a deep rotation they would mixing in.
You couldn't cover him out the backfield. He was so
explosive also in the run in return game and all
that other stuff. He did a lot for them. Very
underrated are his contributions to what that team was able
to do down in New Orleans?
Speaker 1 (21:28):
All right, I'm not saying these are that this player
is as good as these players, but this is what
I was told.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
And I knew that.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
I knew the Cowboys were on the interior offensive lineman,
so I knew. I thought there was a chance it
could be a trade back and take Gray Zabel or
Tyler Booker. They ended up, you know, kind of getting
stuck there and then it has taken Booker. But what
was told to me after the fact was in their
meetings and in their conversations, it was like we've always
had elite guards when we've had good teams like there's
(21:55):
the era, the Larry Allen era, then there was the
Zach Martin era where they want a lot of football games.
So they understand the importance in their building of having
valuable resources dedicated to the guard position. And so that's
why they were comfortable when they got stuck and couldn't
get out, saying, well, maybe not as much value around
(22:16):
the league here, but for us, there's tremendous value to
invest in this position.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
I'll even go deeper than that. I will say that.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
So Brian Schottenheimer is the son of Marty Schottenheimer. When
we were all in Kansas City, Will Shields was at
one guard, Tim Grunnett was at another guard in Dave's eye,
and so Marty was standing in front of the room
and say, it doesn't matter who we haven't running back.
As long as we have this interior three, we can
dominate anybody. And when I'm looking at the Cowboys and
(22:45):
what they're creating, DJ, they're creating dominant interior three where
they can just run the ball at whomever. And we
always talk about build your team to win your division.
Jalen Carter plays where three technique, Oh, you better have
some people that are okay, making.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
This a bit of a street fight at the point
of attack in the middle.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Now, I'm sure they've seen each other over the years too.
Alabama Georgia games going back. I can't wait to see
that one. That's gonna be fun. Last one again, not
comparing to the Hall of Famer, but Malachi Starks ed
reed just in terms of the body type, fluid, smooth
movers who are incredibly football smart. So I think that's
kind of the I think that helped inform the Ravens
(23:26):
love for a guy like Malachi Starks.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
I'm all on board on that, DJ because the thing
did I think about is I think.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
About his IQ.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
And during the process we talked about Malachay Starks and
all the IQ stuff and what he did to me
that's what it is.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
It's the high IQ stuff that would allow him to.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
Play as a nice playmate to Cale Hamilton, to make
a nun plays in the middle of the field.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
All right, last last thing here. That's it for those
comps here and I'll hit you on one more thing
and then we're going to uh, We're going to bounce
out of here. But we talked so much about the
edge and the DTS So I'm gonna go through.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
I'm gonna go through.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
The top five to six, five or six guys at
each position, and just tell me the value slash fit
that you love the best. Okay, because we talked about
this strength of this draft being the d lineman. So
the DTS Mason Graham he goes five to the Cleveland Browns,
Kenneth Grant earlier than a lot of people thought, thirteen
to the Miami Dolphins, Walter Nolan at Ole mess at
(24:27):
d tackle he goes sixteen to the Cardinals, Derek Harmon
goes twenty one to the Pittsburgh Steelers, and then Tyler
Williams he goes twenty eight to the Detroit Lions from
Ohio State. So which one of those to me you
like the best in terms of the fit value, all
that good stuff.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Well, honestly, I love Mason Graham, but I'm gonna say
Walton Nolan, and I'm gonna say dj that I the
more that I looked at Walton Noland late, the more
I liked him, and what the Arizona Cardinals are doing
in terms of being able to put him on the inside,
and look they went with all pretty much all big
ten draft right, get a bunch of.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Gifts from the big ten and they invest in it.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
But Walton Nolan is a guy that is the outliery
because it comes from the SEC. But look, man, you
talk about a guy that was the former number one
recruit in high school. He bounces around, but then at
old mess Man, you see the flashes of dominance, and
I just believe man, in the right system, the right environment,
he is going to be a dominant player at the
point of attack.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
So to me, I love that pick. I love that fit.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
All right, that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
I'm going to actually go Derek Harmon with the Pittsburgh
Steelers and we had Mike Tomlin on.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
I don't know if you got a chance to see this.
So this was the question I asked, and I didn't
mention the stat but you know, they lost to Baltimore
in the playoffs. Baltimore rushed for two hundred and ninety
nine yards in that game against the Pittsburgh Steelers. And
I said, defense, the pride you have in that unit,
I said, when you walked off the field, like, how
(25:54):
long before you started thinking about what you needed to
do to revamp this defense? So that something like that
would never happen again, and Tomlin just looked straight into
the camera and said before I got in the shower,
I was.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Like, I'm telling you, man, there's pride there. So what
do you do. You got to get Derek Harmon, who
can be a dominant player against the run. You go
out and get Jack Sawyer, who is a rugged edgsetter.
Think about that.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
I was looking at their depth, jart Buck. They're going
to run out there with t J. Watt and high
Smith as their starters. Right now, They've got Herbig and
Jack Sawyer. That's the three and a four edge rushers.
Like that is they're gonna be able to roll those
guys through, keep everybody fresh. But then y a black
out out of Iowa who's massive, like they they didn't
(26:38):
like that very much the way that went down last year,
and they've kind of rebuilt, refortified and got younger across
their front.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
So I like that value. I like that fel Derrek
Carmon's a really, really good player.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
Look, and we talked about him as we were running
up to the draft, about how good he is and
how impactful he could be at the point of attack,
and the thing that I love about the Steelers is
not only taking.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Like a Derek Carmon, right.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
I feel like these teams that traditionally draft well, they
have a clear understanding of their brand. So dj they
get him at a point of attack, He's down to
play anything. Come and get Jackson, like man, I should
have known that they would get jack Do they not
take every former Ohio State outside linebacker defensive manlight?
Speaker 3 (27:16):
They always do it because it always.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
Fits what they want to do. And look, Man, Harmon
is a good player. I love the effort and energy.
He has a toughness to him that certainly fits how
they want to play.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Man, it's funny that you said.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Tom that said that, because I think you know, you know,
at the end of the day, especially the way Baltimore
pat hands on him.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Yes, it's not good enough.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
All right, let's go to the edge, guys. Here, abdul Carter,
he goes three to the Giants. Mike L Williams goes
eleven to the San Franco forty nine ers, which, by
the way, the Niners took a bunch of run stoppers,
which is kind of fascinating because we think about them
as like, you know, wide nine attack fronts, like they
took a bunch of guys who are kind of dominant,
edge setting guys. I think that's a little bit of
(27:59):
a byproduct of the Rams and their physicality and kind
of how they want to play. So I thought that
was fascinating. Shamar Stewart was seventeen to the Bengals, Jalen
Walker right right before that, fifteen to Atlanta, and then
James Pierce. They come back in the Falcons select him
with their second first round pick, parting with next year's one,
which is kind of a little bit of a shocker.
And then the last one I'll give you here, donovin'z
(28:19):
Araku in the second round to the Dallas Cowboys.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
What do you like the best.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Man? As much as I love Pierce as a player,
I like Asiraku going to the Dallas Cowboys.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
And the reason why is I just think about the
defense flues coming back to Dallas, like they can play
with urgent athletes on the edge. As a rok who
just man his pace, his tempo, the vast are of
moves that he has, I would say that he probably
needs to cut it down so he can kind of
master what he wants to do at the next level.
But man, I just can see him and Michael Parsons
(28:54):
kind of engaging in various games and doing things from
stand up positions to create all kinds of problems for
offenses on third downs.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
That's I would was actually going to go in that direction.
So I'm going to go in a different direction here
and ask you a question. If I told you next year, like,
let's look at the first round guys are Abdull Carter,
mikel Williams, Jalen Walker, Shamar Stewart, James Pierce. Those five guys, right,
those five first rounders. If I told you that after
the year, next year, that the second rounders, which is
(29:27):
he's a rakkup, j T Tumolau, Nick s Gorton all
the days shoe he goes to the Titans. Mike Green,
if I told you that's five v five. If I
told you next year, Buck the season ends and the
second rounders end up having more sacks than the first rounders,
what would you say.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
I wouldn't be surprised, because I think they're set up
for success given where they're going. We always talk about
the importance of fit in where you go. Mike Green
going to the Baltimore Ravens. Look out, my goodness, you
know what I'm saying Like that, that is one that
I'm sure no one could have. He's going to be there.
And then you talk about as a Roku and some
of the other guys in the second round, they're a
(30:05):
better positioned to kind of feast off teams that are
having to chase points. Mike Green is going to have
more opportunities to get up to the pass, and then
maybe in Abdul card or some of these other guys,
and so I just think the fit and the opportunities
are going to be better for the second rounders.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
We talked about the second round being the sweet spot
for these rushers, and these rushers that I mentioned in
the second round, almost all of them have big production,
like they know how to rush, like they're going to
show up and be ready to rush the pass or
whereas some of the traitsy guys in the first round
that might be more for two three years from now.
So I'd be curious that wouldn't check me in the
least if that second round group ended up being better
at least initially.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
It wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
And DJ, let's be honest, like so many of the
pass rushers that emerge and become guys or guys that
are not taken in the first round. I mean, we've
just seen pass rush position is just different in terms
of where guy's spop. It's a lot about where you play,
what scheme you're playing, and how you deployed.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Those second round guys are.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Going to have opportunities to play to their strengths, but
they're playing on teams that are good that will set
them up for chances where some of these other teams
not the same thing. It's a huge weakness and you
can be counted on to be an every down player
where some of the second round guys are gonna be
in a designated pass rushier road, which is so much
different than being an every down run in.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Passed off Yep, it'll be fun to watch all these guys, man,
all right, this is fun. It was great to be
back together and catch up Buck again. Thanks to everybody
for hanging with us as we've gone through this entire
draft process. We've got to have more shows coming your way.
I'm gonna I'm gonna crawl under a rock for a
little bit, Buck, take a little take a little break,
and then we'll be back at it. But I'm excited.
(31:36):
Now we have teams. Now we can start digging into
what this is gonna look like next year. We've got
the schedule release that's right around the corner. The NFL
never sleeps, man.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
Never sleeps, and that's a great thing. The schedule release
of the fourteenth. You got O ta's and minigames. You're
gonna have a month off and then before you know it,
we're gonna be in July and it's on the pop.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Appreciate you, guys. We'll see you next time. Right here,
I move the sticks.
And now move the sticks with Daniel, Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
What's up, everybody? Welcome to move the sticks? DJ, Buck
with you? Buck? How you doing, man, I'm good.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
DJ.
Speaker 4 (00:12):
It's the first time that you and I've gotten together
since the draft and all the chaos. I got to
command you on the job that you did. I didn't
get a chance to see it or hear it because
we were working simultaneously. But the feedback that I got
and the advice that you gave to one your der
Sanders was I much need it everything. After all the
conversations post draft that I've.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Heard, well, I appreciate that and congrats to you.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
And I heard like I got some of the number
of reports for all the stuff you guys were doing,
and it was like crazy growth, man. So it's fun
to see all the different ways we kind of communicate
with the masses during during the draft and to see
just the entire thing just continue to grow and build
is is pretty cool. So I'm excited to catch up
with you in the I've got one of the things
(00:57):
I wanted to hit on, and we'll get to it
in just a minute. But I wanted to hit on
how and we've seen this before, how your relationship in
history with players at previous stops or years passing your
organization informs your decisions on the guys you draft because
you think you've you've coached this type of player before.
And so I got a list of players that I
(01:17):
want to get your thoughts on. But we're gonna get
to that in just a minute. But first of all,
it's time for Hot or Not, brought to you by
with Sabi Hot Cloud Storage. So I mean, I look,
we'll start there. We don't need to spend a ton
of time on it. Everybody's said their piece. We both
had a chance to say our thoughts on it. But
the more time removed from the from the chador thing,
the draft thing, My my biggest takeaway, Buck might be
(01:39):
this will probably be.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
You know, we talk about teaching tape or what have.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
You, but this is this is probably a reason why
agents matter, you know, why why you could say, if
you're an agent, I would I would use this as
a you know, as an example of why you should
hire an agent. And there's a reason why, Buck, that
these these training facilities make so much money where they
bring these kids in. It's not just to teach him
(02:04):
how to run a three cone like, I think it's
to kind of help you guide you through the process,
because I think that was where things kind of fell
off track.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
That's how I looked at it.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Okay, So before we talk about Shador, I want to
use Jackson Dart as the example. And the reason why
I want to use Jackson Dart as the example is
during Super Bowl we had an opportunity in the viewing room,
Jackson Dart and his dad came through. Jackson Dart was
sitting up beside us. He was asking questions and really
wanted to dig into the process before I think that
(02:33):
was was that before the Singer Bowl, is before the
Senior Bowl.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
So whatever we were watching, we were doing Saturday games.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
And so he comes through, he does that, he has
all the questions, he does all of data whatever. And
I don't know if you had a chance to see
the phone call that Brian Dable and Joe Shane made
to Jackson Dart, and one of the first things they
said is like, man, you kill the process.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
You really crushed the process.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Both guys said it individual to him about the process.
And it was at that moment when I saw that
I was like, oh, that process is really everything and
maybe not even in my own navita because we've all
worked for teams or whatever, but in a different time,
that process for quarterbacks is really unique and different. And
(03:20):
then I went back and I had an opportunity to
see the clips from Hard Knocks last year where the
Giants kind of went through the quarterback process with Jayden Daniels,
Drake May and all that, and they really gave access
to how they go about it, and Joe and that
clip talked about, Look, this process that we feel like
we've honed down has been very successful for us throughout
(03:40):
the years, not only with the guys that we acquired
Josh Allen when they went through the process in Buffalo,
but the other guys who've killed this process, like a
Jayden Daniels, they also.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Had success in the league.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
And so what that led me to believe is if
you're a player, and let's just say Shadur didn't prepare
to really crush this process after watching how they go
about it, there's no your way. You can fake your
way through it, Like it's not a process, Like I
want everyone to understand, this is not one where you
can go to the class, not study the test, but like, hey,
(04:12):
I'm a wing it, it's not one that you can
do it. You really got to prepare. You really got
to know the ins and outs. And it's not only
about knowing your stuff, it's how do you articulate the
game to others? How do you articulate your level of
knowledge in those things? And amid chaos in an interview session.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
So if you didn't take that.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Part seriously, if you didn't approach this like you and
I would say to our kids on a regular job,
you go for a job interview a wear your blue suit,
make sure your shoes are polish, make sure you come
in there. Have you researched a company? Do you know
who you're talking to? Have you researched them? Do you
have all of the answers to be able to like
a swat analysis test? What are my strengths? What are
(04:55):
my weaknesses? How am I working to make those weaknesses
my strengths? All of those things that we would tell, well,
if you don't approach the NFL job interview like that,
it'll come back and get you.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
And I think that's what we saw.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah, And I think first of all, to correct the
timeline you're correct. I'm now like going back in my head,
So Senior Bowl would have been before the Super Bowl,
so he had done he had been through the Senior
Bowl process. He came in, watched the Super Bowl. But
I mean he asked a bazillion questions about like when
you're meeting with teams the combine and well, you you know,
when you're going through this process, and then at the
pro day and at the workout, it's like, how you know,
(05:29):
how do what are they looking for? What do I
need to convey? What are the things you'd think I
need to work on? Like there was some awareness there,
and that's really probably the biggest thing is just the awareness.
And I was going back through it, and you know,
we've seen in years past, because I think people will go, oh,
you know, we see all these top quarterbacks. They don't
throw at the combine or they don't do this and that,
and they kind of choose what they want to do.
I'm like, you have to know where you are, not
(05:50):
just in how confident you are on your ability, but
you have to know where your stock is. So cam Ward,
he was viewed as the top guy, and that gap
just kept getting wider and wider, So cam Ord didn't
need to throw at the combine, cam Ward didn't need
to go to All Star games. Like cam Ward was
a made man for lack of a better phrase, But
when you look at the quarterbacks that went next, Buck
(06:12):
Jackson Dart Full Process Senior Bowl included Tyler Schuck, Full
Process Senior Bowl included Jalen Milroe. Full Process Senior Bowl
included Dylan Gabriel. Full Process Senior Bowl included Like those
guys knew that, Hey, I'm not in that tier, so
I got to do all the stuff along the way
to get me, you know, to have teams, you know,
(06:34):
want to pick me, because there's a difference between it's
the love and the like. If teams love you, they're
going to they're not going to be as demanding of
the process. If teams like you, it is your job
to make them love you. Does that make any sense?
That don't know what it was.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
And I also think that everyone has to understand that
there is a shift that's going on international Football League,
not just with quarterbacks but with all players.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
And I think we heard it repeatedly.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
We heard it on your telecast where they talked about
guys are really going after players who really love ball,
Like DJ, think about how many times in the past
we will say that, But there's a concerted effort by
teams to make sure that the guys they acquire love ball.
And I'm gonna use the Jaguars as an example. One
of the things that general manager James Glasstone talked about
(07:22):
when he first took the job is, Hey, it's not
about us setting the culture. It's us bringing in the
players who change the culture just by being themselves. And
the way that they change the culture is they already
have these things where they want to be great, they
want to come to work, they want to do extra
all this, So DJ, what they did is people will
(07:43):
tell you, and I'll tell you the story about Travis Hunter.
Travis Commers. Hunter comes into the facility after being selected.
He goes through and does all the stuff, and then
he's looking to change clothes so he can go work
out with the team, and they're like, no, you can't
do that yet, but but that's how he was.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
And then the other thing that came out.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
You know this because you were at the Senior Bowl,
so Jack Kaiser, I didn't notice, but evidently during the game.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I switch everyone plays safety.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Everybody opted out. He's an inside linebacker by trade. But
on game that he was like, oh cool, I'll go
and play safety. And there was someone else who played
on both sides or whatever.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
They drafted him and they said.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
We want guys who embraced all aspects of the process,
even if it will put you in a position to
not look at your best, to not look like you
know what you're doing, because you love ball so much
that you're like, hey, I'll do everything.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
And he talked about last year.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Was Braden fisk I played on ball, switch team, played
on both teams.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yeah, he switched teams.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
So and so DJ So.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Now when you have all those quarterbacks like Jalen Milroe
and Tyler Shuck and Jack Dark, they're all going through
the process and all willingly doing everything, you stick out
like a sore thumb when you don't participate like that.
And even though we're in the thing where everyone is
celebrating the player empowerment era, you're empowered to do whatever
you want to do. You can opt out or whatever.
(09:07):
But I'm telling you now, it ain't like it used
to be. They're judging on that, and some of the
other guys like a Will Johnson, like Will Johnson elected.
Not okay, But what they're doing is if they have
somewhere where we can complete all the boxes and tie
up all the loose ends, I'm gonna take the prospect
that I know everything about as opposed to the prospect
that has some unknowns.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
The one thing because we talked about, you know, we
tackled this subject from a lot of different areas on
TV over the three days, and you know, try and
be measured and reasonable and everything, and I try and
give people a look inside when you've been inside.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Those buildings and what that would look like.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
The only thing that I that I said that I
got some that I I's see all the feedback. But
the one thing that was brought to my attention with
some negative attention off what I said was at one
point time, I said, when he had kept sliding. I said,
if I were, if I were advising him, what I
would tell him was of the teams you met with.
Now that's not all thirty two.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
But I would call them.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
I would call him and say, hey, something got miscommunicated
to this problem. I want you to know that, Like,
I'm a football player, and this is my desire and passion.
I'm coming there to work, Like this is not about
you know, production value or any of this other stuff
that you might associate with me, Like, I just want
an opportunity. I will compete my butt off, and I'm
gonna make us a better team. Let's start there. I'm
gonna earn everything.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
But like and then.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
People were like, oh, you're asking him, do you want
him to call and beg teams? And I'm like, no, no, no,
that's not that's not at all what I'm saying. What
I'm saying is if I went and inter personally, if
I went interviewed for a job that I wanted and
then I heard, you know what, they didn't like some
of the things you said in the interview, I don't
think they're going to hire you. My first thing would
be like, let me call it, hey, sir, I know
in our conversation I interviewed maybe the way that didn't
(10:46):
come across the right way, But I want to let
you know that I'm going to work as hard as
I possibly can, like I'm the right guy for this job.
That's not begging for a job, So that's that's not
lowering yourself. That's just trying to be proactive and show
a commitment to make sure that we're on the same page.
And at the end of the day, if you want
to go somewhere else, that's fine, but I want you
to have a proper understanding of what I'm about.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
That's all I was saying.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
So a couple of things with that because I saw
that and I to me, it was sensible.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
It makes sense. If I want the job, go get
the job.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Like that's one of the things like in civilian life,
if you want a job doing that interview, it's important
for you to convey to the person interviewing you, I
want this job, and if I get this job, here's
how I'm gonna perform in that job. And it's a
way to not only display confidence but also humility and saying, hey,
I'm about the team, I'm this and that. That's also
(11:38):
where lack of representation heard them, because representation, that's a
person who could.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Be having that conversation like, hey, I talked to this
team and they said that you said answered this question
this way, and that rubbed them the wrong way.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Like, well, we need to go let's we need you
guys on the phone together.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Yeah, we need to go clean it up. We need
to get on the zoom. We need to make sure
that everyone clearly understands.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
That part of it.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
The other thing that I did on DJ because then
people talked about the fall and the slide and all
of that stuff, But I was trying to let people
know in the draft, what happens is you have the
vertical board, you.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Have the horizontal board.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Horizontal board is the positions and order what happens DJ.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
If we are a team that doesn't need.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
A quarterback, even though Shuder is there, that doesn't change
our process. And I know we can talk about best
player available, but best player available is a thing that
we use as we're checking off needs in those things,
it's just not a we're going willy nilly and just
taking random players at the top of the board that
don't necessarily job And particularly when you're the first three rounds,
(12:42):
the guys that you take in the first three.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Rounds of guys that we're projecting the starters.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
So if I don't have an immediate need at quarterback,
we can acknowledge that a player is worthy of doing that,
but we're not seriously entertaining or considering that there's a
level of the draft where we get to then now
we'll begin to consider. Okay, look, we don't have the need,
but this guy was rated as the second round player.
He's in the fifth round. Let's take him just from
(13:07):
a value standpoint, which is what I believe the Browns
got to. But I'm gonna say this, it's really sticky
in the Browns quarterback room just because of the pecking order.
So when you take Dylan Gabril in the third round, DJA,
your third round pick is on the team. So we
can sit here and talk about it's an open competition,
(13:28):
but your third round pick is on the team. So
now this competition is because it's your version during pick
a kit, that's the competition.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
So that's what it is. I think we've exhausted.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
We've talked about this a lot, and I would rather
like not being disrespectful to I'd rather talk about some
of the other guys had an opportunity to do their.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Thing, because that's what I mean.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
I felt like the telecasts became all about Sanders, and
we just want to make sure that others get love
for their opportunities to go.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
And you know the subject manager that your product.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, yep, that was this week's Hotter segment brought to
you by with Sabi hot Cloud storage, Store more and
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wassabi dot com. All right, Buck, let's take Let's take
just a quick pause and we'll come back because I've
got I got some names. I'm run by you, and
i want to get your thoughts on the comparisons with
coaches or general managers that they had a previous player
(14:19):
that might have informed their decision. So we'll get to
that list right after this. All right, Buck, First up,
this one is an easy one. H Pete Carroll Ashton
Genty stylistically Marshawn Lynch like he appreciates that style and
that brand of runner.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Absolutely absolutely, look DJ It's one of those things that
was the easiest one to mock when you're going through the.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Mock and you're like raiders Aston Genty could be there.
Would he do it? Yes? Why?
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Because displayer gives him what he's always wanted, a workhorse
runner who can do all the grimy stuff. But also
as a fact in the passing game, and for people
who really haven't been reminded of how good Marshawn Lynch was,
it wasn't just beastmode running. There was a time there
did whenever they needed a go to play in the
(15:13):
passing game, the.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Ball went to Marshawn Lynz. Like that's how good he was.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
He was so good out of the backfield first coming
out of Caw and then he goes into the league
and then when he gets to Seattle, Man, they really
tapped into that. To me, I believe Pete Carroll is
kind of recreating some of that offense that he previously
had in Seattle to have the Raiders get back on
track and close the gap on the competitors. Asking Gensy
is the workhorse, the lynch pin to that offense being
(15:40):
able to kind of play that stole.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah, and they're going to be able to finish games
with him too. I mean, think about all those games
that Marshawn Lynch is kind of put away. You know, Hey,
they got a good defense. You know they've got a
good front. I should say they have some other pieces
they need to fill in, but they hey, if we
can get out to a lead, he can salt the
game away here and Pete Carroll's always appreciate having somebody
like that. All right, next one, there's two teams that
(16:03):
hit this one. So I'm gonna go with the Chicago Bears, okay,
and then I'm gonna come back with the New York Jets.
They took Colston Loveland in Chicago, and they took Mason Taylor.
With the Jets, you had head coach for Chicago, Ben Johnson,
who came from Detroit with Sam Laporta head coach New
(16:25):
York Jets. You had Aaron Glenn who came from Detroit
with Sam Laporta.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I think Sam.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Laporta helped place both those guys in those teams because
I think you look at Loveland, you look at Mason Taylor,
you know, size, speed, stylistically.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
There's a lot of similarities to a guy like Sam Laporta.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
That was the first thing that came up to me
when I saw Loveland go over top of Tyler Warren.
I was like Ben Johnson was doing his evaluations and
he was like, Man Lovelan reminds me a lot of
Sam Report. I could do a lot of the same
things I did with the Porter with him, and I'm
being honest, Djay, I felt like he did the same
thing with Luther Burton. I feel like Luther Burdon was
a bit of a I've seen big I felt like
(17:03):
he said, Oh, I can recreate the offense that I
just had.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
I got all of these guys.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
I got an alpha dog competitor and slave receiver in Burden,
and then I have Lovelin who can do all this stuff.
With Sam on the porter, I can set my quarterback
up success without really having to deviate too far from
the system and the scheme and the way that I
want to play by now getting the personnel that I'm
very familiar with and comfortable with from my time in Detroit.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
And then last one for those teams, let's go Aaron
Glenn New York Jets. They decided with their first pick
to take a big, physical, run blocking right tackle who
isn't completely as polished in the past game. But we're
going to dominate physically and we're going to develop more
as a pass protector. That remind you of anybody from Detroit.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Oh, maybe let's see Pa. So maybe maybe we'll take
a big dude.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
That anchor that offensive line and to give us what
it is that we want to have in terms of
as a team, we want to be a physical team.
We eventually want to run the ball, we want to
protect the quarterback and all those things.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Man.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
You know, it's funny because the conversation on Membu DJ,
I was getting feedback from some people like, man, I
don't think he's a great I'm not in love.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
With him, from so many people in the business.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
I was like, yeah, I don't get that.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
I was like, I definitely don't see that. Like I
see a really good play here, who can do.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
A lot, and I think the Jets certainly saw that,
and man, having him anchor it down talking about a
right tackle that can really get physical and establish it
at the point of attack, it certainly works.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
For them, and it worked for Detroit for a long time.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yep, this one I don't see. I don't agree with
this comparison quite as much, but I understand what the
goal is here, and that's what Ted McMillan and Mike Evans,
you know, trying to draw the connection with Dave Canalis
coming from Tampa.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
So it's funny that you wrote it up because I
feel like the Tampa situation impacted two teams.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
It impacted the Carolina Panthers, with Ted.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
McMillan being the Mike Evans type basically recreating it right.
So I could see Dave Canal is looking at and Okay,
I got Tevic Millan over here. He is Mike Evans.
I have Xavier Laguette over here. He's going to be
my Chris Gottwin type. I got two big bodied playmakers
that are going to expand the strike.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Zone for Bryce Young.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
I also believe down in Tampa a mecha Abuka gives
them what they had. He's like, oh, I got someone
that can be an easy replacement for either one of
these guys, presumably Mike Evans if he doesn't resign after
next year. They now have two big guys that they
can play with that they've always kind of operated with
that has really helped Baker Mayfield.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
So I do believe you're right.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Everyone kind of has a blueprint that they prefer to follow,
and that blueprint is established along the way, either with
the player that they've come in contact with or being
in an organization.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
And you had a lot of success operating a certain way.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Mm how about this one? Emon Wari got picked in
Seattle and everybody was doing the oh they got the
new cam Chancellor, And I'm sitting here going, oh, no,
Mike McDonald came from Baltimore and he's got is Kyle
Hamilton Like that's he knows how to use that big
player in that role and it's so good. He's a
kind of a faster version of Kyle Hamilton.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Means such such a good like such a good fit,
such a good pick.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
Not only that, because you're talking about em and worry
like kind of dropping in there, but how about John
Snyder and those guys looking and seeing a bigger, faster
Cam Chancellor and being like, oh, you know, it kind
of reminds me of we've had success in this model
using this kind of player. Yeah, DJ it works, I believe,
And I know people hate when we do the comparison things,
(20:33):
but I'm telling you every coach it does this.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
This guy reminds me of this. This is what I'm
gonna do with him if he comes in. He's that.
And when we are presenting a.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Player to the coach and said hey, coach, he kind
of reminds us of the coach immediately said, oh, okay,
this is a game plan for how we use a
player that has that.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
This is what we did with him. We'll do the
same things and it'll work. For him as well.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
All right, this one was a fun one. Me Sean
Payton goes and gets R. J. Harvey, which is his
Darren Sproles.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Oh yeah, Darren spos had a lot of success for
the Saints.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
I mean, he was a very impactful player, and he
was part of a deep rotation they would mixing in.
You couldn't cover him out the backfield. He was so
explosive also in the run in return game and all
that other stuff. He did a lot for them. Very
underrated are his contributions to what that team was able
to do down in New Orleans?
Speaker 1 (21:28):
All right, I'm not saying these are that this player
is as good as these players, but this is what
I was told.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
And I knew that.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
I knew the Cowboys were on the interior offensive lineman,
so I knew. I thought there was a chance it
could be a trade back and take Gray Zabel or
Tyler Booker. They ended up, you know, kind of getting
stuck there and then it has taken Booker. But what
was told to me after the fact was in their
meetings and in their conversations, it was like we've always
had elite guards when we've had good teams like there's
(21:55):
the era, the Larry Allen era, then there was the
Zach Martin era where they want a lot of football games.
So they understand the importance in their building of having
valuable resources dedicated to the guard position. And so that's
why they were comfortable when they got stuck and couldn't
get out, saying, well, maybe not as much value around
(22:16):
the league here, but for us, there's tremendous value to
invest in this position.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
I'll even go deeper than that. I will say that.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
So Brian Schottenheimer is the son of Marty Schottenheimer. When
we were all in Kansas City, Will Shields was at
one guard, Tim Grunnett was at another guard in Dave's eye,
and so Marty was standing in front of the room
and say, it doesn't matter who we haven't running back.
As long as we have this interior three, we can
dominate anybody. And when I'm looking at the Cowboys and
(22:45):
what they're creating, DJ, they're creating dominant interior three where
they can just run the ball at whomever. And we
always talk about build your team to win your division.
Jalen Carter plays where three technique, Oh, you better have
some people that are okay, making.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
This a bit of a street fight at the point
of attack in the middle.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Now, I'm sure they've seen each other over the years too.
Alabama Georgia games going back. I can't wait to see
that one. That's gonna be fun. Last one again, not
comparing to the Hall of Famer, but Malachi Starks ed
reed just in terms of the body type, fluid, smooth
movers who are incredibly football smart. So I think that's
kind of the I think that helped inform the Ravens
(23:26):
love for a guy like Malachi Starks.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
I'm all on board on that, DJ because the thing
did I think about is I think.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
About his IQ.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
And during the process we talked about Malachay Starks and
all the IQ stuff and what he did to me
that's what it is.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
It's the high IQ stuff that would allow him to.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
Play as a nice playmate to Cale Hamilton, to make
a nun plays in the middle of the field.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
All right, last last thing here. That's it for those
comps here and I'll hit you on one more thing
and then we're going to uh, We're going to bounce
out of here. But we talked so much about the
edge and the DTS So I'm gonna go through.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
I'm gonna go through.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
The top five to six, five or six guys at
each position, and just tell me the value slash fit
that you love the best. Okay, because we talked about
this strength of this draft being the d lineman. So
the DTS Mason Graham he goes five to the Cleveland Browns,
Kenneth Grant earlier than a lot of people thought, thirteen
to the Miami Dolphins, Walter Nolan at Ole mess at
(24:27):
d tackle he goes sixteen to the Cardinals, Derek Harmon
goes twenty one to the Pittsburgh Steelers, and then Tyler
Williams he goes twenty eight to the Detroit Lions from
Ohio State. So which one of those to me you
like the best in terms of the fit value, all
that good stuff.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Well, honestly, I love Mason Graham, but I'm gonna say
Walton Nolan, and I'm gonna say dj that I the
more that I looked at Walton Noland late, the more
I liked him, and what the Arizona Cardinals are doing
in terms of being able to put him on the inside,
and look they went with all pretty much all big
ten draft right, get a bunch of.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Gifts from the big ten and they invest in it.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
But Walton Nolan is a guy that is the outliery
because it comes from the SEC. But look, man, you
talk about a guy that was the former number one
recruit in high school. He bounces around, but then at
old mess Man, you see the flashes of dominance, and
I just believe man, in the right system, the right environment,
he is going to be a dominant player at the
point of attack.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
So to me, I love that pick. I love that fit.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
All right, that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
I'm going to actually go Derek Harmon with the Pittsburgh
Steelers and we had Mike Tomlin on.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
I don't know if you got a chance to see this.
So this was the question I asked, and I didn't
mention the stat but you know, they lost to Baltimore
in the playoffs. Baltimore rushed for two hundred and ninety
nine yards in that game against the Pittsburgh Steelers. And
I said, defense, the pride you have in that unit,
I said, when you walked off the field, like, how
(25:54):
long before you started thinking about what you needed to
do to revamp this defense? So that something like that
would never happen again, and Tomlin just looked straight into
the camera and said before I got in the shower,
I was.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Like, I'm telling you, man, there's pride there. So what
do you do. You got to get Derek Harmon, who
can be a dominant player against the run. You go
out and get Jack Sawyer, who is a rugged edgsetter.
Think about that.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
I was looking at their depth, jart Buck. They're going
to run out there with t J. Watt and high
Smith as their starters. Right now, They've got Herbig and
Jack Sawyer. That's the three and a four edge rushers.
Like that is they're gonna be able to roll those
guys through, keep everybody fresh. But then y a black
out out of Iowa who's massive, like they they didn't
(26:38):
like that very much the way that went down last year,
and they've kind of rebuilt, refortified and got younger across
their front.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
So I like that value. I like that fel Derrek
Carmon's a really, really good player.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
Look, and we talked about him as we were running
up to the draft, about how good he is and
how impactful he could be at the point of attack,
and the thing that I love about the Steelers is
not only taking.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Like a Derek Carmon, right.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
I feel like these teams that traditionally draft well, they
have a clear understanding of their brand. So dj they
get him at a point of attack, He's down to
play anything. Come and get Jackson, like man, I should
have known that they would get jack Do they not
take every former Ohio State outside linebacker defensive manlight?
Speaker 3 (27:16):
They always do it because it always.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
Fits what they want to do. And look, Man, Harmon
is a good player. I love the effort and energy.
He has a toughness to him that certainly fits how
they want to play.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Man, it's funny that you said.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Tom that said that, because I think you know, you know,
at the end of the day, especially the way Baltimore
pat hands on him.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Yes, it's not good enough.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
All right, let's go to the edge, guys. Here, abdul Carter,
he goes three to the Giants. Mike L Williams goes
eleven to the San Franco forty nine ers, which, by
the way, the Niners took a bunch of run stoppers,
which is kind of fascinating because we think about them
as like, you know, wide nine attack fronts, like they
took a bunch of guys who are kind of dominant,
edge setting guys. I think that's a little bit of
(27:59):
a byproduct of the Rams and their physicality and kind
of how they want to play. So I thought that
was fascinating. Shamar Stewart was seventeen to the Bengals, Jalen
Walker right right before that, fifteen to Atlanta, and then
James Pierce. They come back in the Falcons select him
with their second first round pick, parting with next year's one,
which is kind of a little bit of a shocker.
And then the last one I'll give you here, donovin'z
(28:19):
Araku in the second round to the Dallas Cowboys.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
What do you like the best.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Man? As much as I love Pierce as a player,
I like Asiraku going to the Dallas Cowboys.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
And the reason why is I just think about the
defense flues coming back to Dallas, like they can play
with urgent athletes on the edge. As a rok who
just man his pace, his tempo, the vast are of
moves that he has, I would say that he probably
needs to cut it down so he can kind of
master what he wants to do at the next level.
But man, I just can see him and Michael Parsons
(28:54):
kind of engaging in various games and doing things from
stand up positions to create all kinds of problems for
offenses on third downs.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
That's I would was actually going to go in that direction.
So I'm going to go in a different direction here
and ask you a question. If I told you next year, like,
let's look at the first round guys are Abdull Carter,
mikel Williams, Jalen Walker, Shamar Stewart, James Pierce. Those five guys, right,
those five first rounders. If I told you that after
the year, next year, that the second rounders, which is
(29:27):
he's a rakkup, j T Tumolau, Nick s Gorton all
the days shoe he goes to the Titans. Mike Green,
if I told you that's five v five. If I
told you next year, Buck the season ends and the
second rounders end up having more sacks than the first rounders,
what would you say.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
I wouldn't be surprised, because I think they're set up
for success given where they're going. We always talk about
the importance of fit in where you go. Mike Green
going to the Baltimore Ravens. Look out, my goodness, you
know what I'm saying Like that, that is one that
I'm sure no one could have. He's going to be there.
And then you talk about as a Roku and some
of the other guys in the second round, they're a
(30:05):
better positioned to kind of feast off teams that are
having to chase points. Mike Green is going to have
more opportunities to get up to the pass, and then
maybe in Abdul card or some of these other guys,
and so I just think the fit and the opportunities
are going to be better for the second rounders.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
We talked about the second round being the sweet spot
for these rushers, and these rushers that I mentioned in
the second round, almost all of them have big production,
like they know how to rush, like they're going to
show up and be ready to rush the pass or
whereas some of the traitsy guys in the first round
that might be more for two three years from now.
So I'd be curious that wouldn't check me in the
least if that second round group ended up being better
at least initially.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
It wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
And DJ, let's be honest, like so many of the
pass rushers that emerge and become guys or guys that
are not taken in the first round. I mean, we've
just seen pass rush position is just different in terms
of where guy's spop. It's a lot about where you play,
what scheme you're playing, and how you deployed.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Those second round guys are.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Going to have opportunities to play to their strengths, but
they're playing on teams that are good that will set
them up for chances where some of these other teams
not the same thing. It's a huge weakness and you
can be counted on to be an every down player
where some of the second round guys are gonna be
in a designated pass rushier road, which is so much
different than being an every down run in.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Passed off Yep, it'll be fun to watch all these guys, man,
all right, this is fun. It was great to be
back together and catch up Buck again. Thanks to everybody
for hanging with us as we've gone through this entire
draft process. We've got to have more shows coming your way.
I'm gonna I'm gonna crawl under a rock for a
little bit, Buck, take a little take a little break,
and then we'll be back at it. But I'm excited.
(31:36):
Now we have teams. Now we can start digging into
what this is gonna look like next year. We've got
the schedule release that's right around the corner. The NFL
never sleeps, man.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
Never sleeps, and that's a great thing. The schedule release
of the fourteenth. You got O ta's and minigames. You're
gonna have a month off and then before you know it,
we're gonna be in July and it's on the pop.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Appreciate you, guys. We'll see you next time. Right here,
I move the sticks.
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Daniel Jeremiah
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