November 20, 2025 • 32 mins
Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks are joined by former NFL GM Tom Telesco for a deep dive into how front offices actually operate during the heart of the season. Telesco pulls back the curtain on scouting philosophy, draft-room dynamics and how teams juggle medical, character, and performance data as April approaches. Then the guys shift to the biggest NFL storylines of the second half, from surprise teams and fast turnarounds to which 2026 head-coaching jobs could be the most attractive.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now move the sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
What's up everybody?
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Welcome to move to sticks, DJ, Bucky and our good
friend Tom Telesco joining us today. Tom, how are you doing, man.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on again.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Well excited, I mean we were just sitting here chatting
before we went on about you know, how underratedly long
the NFL season is in comparison to the other football
that we're around. High school football pretty much wrapping up.
We've got college football heading towards championship weekend. But man,
there's a lot of NFL football left.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
That's the one thing with rookies when they come in
the league, to try and explain them how long this
league really is, because essentially, right now we're at the
midway point of this year. If you're a high school player,
you're basically your season is either ended or you have
one or two weeks left. If you're a college player,
you're getting ready for conference championship games and potentially a
bowl game. But as far as they have this many
regular season games left, and these are the most important
(00:54):
games right now as you get towards the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Yeah, looking forward to you know, some of these meaningful
matchups in terms of the scouting thing. By the way,
real quick, we'll get to a bunch of other topics
I want to get to on the NFL side of things.
But man, this is the time of year where I'm
just starting to jump into the college guys, and you just,
you know, before I watch the tape, let me call
and at least get some measurables on some of these guys.
It has not changed over the years. Man, the listed
(01:19):
measurables versus the verified measurables is a it's still a canyon,
a grand canyon, est gap between those that still exists.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, of course, all the way back to high school
when you get the height, weights and speeds on players,
and then it goes into college recruiting and then you know,
you know, strength coaches are great at colleges. They do
a tremendous job, but a lot of numbers you get
from the schools are kind of juiced. Yes, ten times
forty times you know, bench presses, short shuttle, three cone and.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Even heightened weights.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
But to me, I mean that's verified information is so
important when you start watching these players, like I need
to know, like if an offensive tackle is the two
eighty five or is he three h five, that's a
big difference.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
So having the real numbers is important, you know, Tom.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
It's funny the other day DJ and I were talking
about body types and I was on the field before
we played the textas and I was looking at daneil
Hunter and just how big and how long he is.
Do you still find value and that when scouts go
on the road and they're doing those first school visits
to body type the players. So you're talking about the verifies,
but also to be able to give you a visual
(02:23):
depiction of what a player looks like on the hoof.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I think it's that's one of the area scouts one
of their biggest jobs is to paint a picture of
the player as if I haven't seen them at risk,
as if their college director has not seen them at
or the head coach. So and part of that is
just kind of described the body type. Now, just because
the player is long and looks great doesn't mean to
be a great player, but it still kind of gives
us a visual of what that player can be, you know,
(02:47):
good or bad. And then it used to be probably
not as much so now try and give us a
feel of could this player put on weight on his frame?
But it does seem like the way colleges are nowadays,
between their training tape and their strength conditioning programs. Most
players that we receive from Division one, certainly I kind
of are what they are at this point body wise.
(03:07):
I think thirty years ago was different, where you know,
you have a tackle maybe weighs two eighty five and
you know you can get another fifteen twenty pounds on them.
But yeah, that's probably one of the bigger parts of
live scouting, certainly at a game where a practice, Yeah, it.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Turns out not having to go to classes a way
to meet your physical potential in college.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Now some of the changes over the years.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Hey, it's all online. It's all being done above board.
I'm not throwing into lobs there, Buck. I was talking
to Tom a little before you popped on, and I
wanted to have this conversation with you as well. But
I was listening to an interview the other day with
a former manager in baseball, and they were asking him
about the changes in baseball from you know, when he
began twenty five years ago to where it is now.
He was referencing the influential voices where it used to
(03:51):
be more of a small circle, and now all these
other different departments in terms of sports performance, in terms
of you know, obviously your pitching group, your hitting group,
they have offensive coordinators now on baseball they have you know,
all the advanced stuff, all the analytics, all the technology
that's been incorporated into this, and so that circle of
influence has really grown. And I thought we got Tom
(04:11):
On here, someone who's been a GM for two different teams. Tom,
I'm curious, how how does the NFL compare in that
way and how did it change from when you first
started to where you were last year.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Well, I know I had a chance to sit in
some different baseball at draft meetings, once with the Padres
when Josh Burns was the GM, and then once with
the Angels when Billy Eppler was there, And yeah, their
departments are certainly they have more people, they have more
I mean, they have to scout more players, so they
have more areascals, they got more directors. But then they
(04:43):
have more departments really than the NFL does. But I
think even in the NFL, you're taking a lot of
opinions from a lot of people. So initially your group
is very large as far as who you were talking to.
And then and I learned this from Bill Polling, as
you get towards the end of the process, when you're
making the decision on the on the players, that's more
of a small group discussion involving the head coach, you know,
maybe your college director or player personnel director and the GM.
(05:06):
But when you're starting initially, I mean there's a lot
of voices in it. I mean, if you just look
at Area Scouts, Regional Scout, director of College Scouting, and
then you look at assistant coaches, coordinators, head coaches, and
then you just talk about the information received from your
strength coaches. I like to always hear about body types
(05:27):
from them, lean weights, body.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
You know that sort of thing.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Doctors, medical, We have a ton of meetings with our
team doctors to go over all the durability, all the
character things that we receive from our security department psychological testing.
So there's a lot of things that go into getting
all the information together on the player and then on
the back end and a smaller group taking all that
information together kind of put a bow around it and
(05:53):
try to make a decision on players.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
So Tom, because you talk about like how vast that
that conversation is, so many people, so many voices, When
do you have to move all those people out of
the room so you can get with the smaller guys.
Is there like a timeframe like the beginning of April
when are.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
You trying to like eliminate some of the outside noise. Yeah,
that's a great point. I wanted all of that done
by April first because a lot of the information and
receiving on the back end, not so much the player evaluation,
the information you have that already, but a lot of
the medical and the character and the psychological testing and
even like you're the eVols from your coaches. I want
(06:32):
to make sure I have that by April first. And
now then we'll go to a small group and put
that together. Now what I had done, and this could
be right, could be wrong. When I would meet with
the strained coaches, or I meet with the doctors, or
meet with the college scouts or the coaches, I did
it all separately, kind of in a vacuum. I wanted
to hear their opinions. I didn't want them influence by
anybody else. So we would do all those meetings separately
(06:54):
with those groups, and then you know, I would tie
it all together in the back end, and sometimes you'd
have some question on somebody and we'd bring somebody in
and kind of bounce some things off them. But it's
a large amount of information to go through, and every
year seems like it's more and more, and part of
the job is trying to figure out what information really
doesn't factor. So let's just throw that out and just
(07:15):
stick with the information we know that factors for us
and trying to make the highest odds decision we can
on a player.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
I've thought about this the other day, and I don't
know that we've ever had this discussion. And I know
the three of us have talked so much over the
years about you know, scouting and where it's going and
innovation and those things.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I was thinking about this, you know, Tom.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
We'd always say, you know, guys are better at evaluating
certain positions. You have the same scouts for a period
of time, some guys are just going to have a
more you know, favorable outcome when they're watching wide outs
and maybe they don't, you know, do as well when
they're doing linebackers. And you can assign guys different positions
based off their strength and their.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Hit record over the year. But then there's also been
times where we would talk.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
About, oh, this guy's a really good evaluator, but he's
not great on background. And maybe this scout is awesome
in terms of getting background information, but we don't necessarily
trust as grades.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Are you surprised.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
And maybe this maybe some team has done this, But
I almost wonder why you almost look at it as
two different jobs and say, we're going to send our
best background guys. Don't even worry about giving us your
tape work. We're going to the school. You guys have
these sources that you've been able to accumulate over the years,
and let's get you in there, get as much information
as you can, and let's get you out of there.
You could cut the day in half, really and then
(08:25):
get you out to the next place to go gather
more information. And maybe some of the other guys are
doing more of the tape work.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Sounds good on the surface, I would worry about morale
by telling an area scout, hey, look, you are great
on background, but you kind of suck at the evail portion,
so just want should go into the schools and just
talk to people.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
So I think, you.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Know, putting it together our scouting staff is not a
lot different than putting a team together. So trying to
make sure all that because there's there's no perfect players,
no perfect coaches, and no perfect gms. There's no perfect
scouts all the time. So yeah, you do get a
feel for different scouts. Who's better than others, some like inherently,
maybe one guy's a little better on the offensive line.
So if you're in a scouting meeting and we're talking
(09:07):
about an offensive lineman, maybe that guy hasn't seen him,
I say, hey, look, hey, so and so, why don't
you go watch him and just you know, next time
you come in the media, come in, give give me
your thoughts. Is a little bit of a cross check.
And the same with even background information. If there's a
piece of information I feel like we need we don't have,
then you know, you may be send a guy in
to a special assignment. Hey, I want you to go
do a little special work on this player to try
(09:28):
and help us out, try.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
And answer some of these questions. But it's it's a
puzzle you're constantly trying to put together.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Did you ever have anybody though, where you might have
one guy who's just an animal in terms of going
in there and unearthing information. Say, hey, we've got some
conflicting information on this player. We don't have a great
feel for him. I know you're in this role in
this part of the country, or hey, we need to
get on a plane and get down to you know,
Iowa to give us, you know, a real take on
this player.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I'll tell you what.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Maybe not so much putting them on a plane to
go somewhere. But when I was with.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
The Charge as we had area scout, I think he's
still there.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Chris Hobbs. He had great people skills and he just
had a way of.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Pulling information out of people.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
So he was one of those scouts that I knew,
whatever information we're getting from the West Coast on those
players like that was rock solid, Like I don't have
to worry about going anywhere else to get the information
because he just had a great feel for it. And
some people it's just in their in their personalities that
are just really good at on earthing and just and
and that's the other thing is the longer you're in
an area, the more you know the coaches, the more,
(10:29):
they trust you that that information that they give the
area scout will go to the club but won't leave us.
And we got to make sure that because that's, you know,
information that shouldn't be public, but it's information that we
need and we have to make sure we protect that
the best we can, or else you go back to
that school and they're not going to tell you that
the truthful information.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
You know. Town.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
This is all fascinating because it does it kind of
reminds me of the initial.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Years of scouting. We're getting PTSD buck, we're gonna shake
in hair.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
No no, no, no, no, but but but but like when
you're getting trained, because I do think that there is
an art to it where you naturally have an eye,
but there's a lot of training that goes into teaching
somebody how to be a scout. Tom, how much time
did you guys spend on really training your scouts in
terms of not only what you're looking for, but the
entire process of being a scout beyond just evaluating the tape,
(11:16):
but all of the other things that go with it.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah, that's part of the director of college Scouting's job,
the director player of personnel his job to a certain extent,
the GM's job is they really have to teach, especially
your younger, your younger scouts, and they usually start out
as scouting assistance, where part of that job is they're
in the office so they can kind of learn.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
But there's certainly an art to it.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
And even as far as gaining information, we talk about,
you know, going into a school and getting background on players.
We brought in a private investigator who I've known way
back for thirty years, d and Richie Toffitt, and he's
basically a PI, and he gave our scouting staff a
presentation on how to ask the right questions to make
sure you pull that information out standing at it. So
(12:01):
we do diff different things like that every training camp.
It was a big time to try and go through
and just talk about each position group, what we're looking
for and.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
What it looks like.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
But it's, uh, that's the all the directors jobs and
GM job is to keep you developing your younger scouts,
you know, when they come in the organization.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
You know, I've long been fascinated by the questions that
you know, what are the right questions to get to
some interesting answers to at least learn something about somebody.
So the one that we've been using lately is one
that I picked up for my buddy Ken Coleman is
in the leadership space tom So.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
We Askedkeikley this. He gave us a great answer.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
But I'll ask you this, as someone who's been a
general manager, what ticked you off? As far as answers,
you can take it whatever you want to take it.
Just what would make you mad when you were in
that role? What would what would really bother you? What
would tick you off?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Are you talking about in in a scouting meaning, just
like when we were talking to a player.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
It could be in life, it could be. It's an
open ended question. That's why it's such a great question
because you could take it.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Let me give you, I'll give you, I'll give if
you could answer that a thousand different ways.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
You're right, that's why you learn about somebody. Because we
asked Keikley this. Right now he's retired. Hey, as a player,
what really ticked you off? He said, Oh, guys that
weren't locked in and walk throughs would drive me nuts.
Like this is not a waste of time. Be focused
worrying about your assignment. Know what you're supposed to do,
take the right step like this is not this is
not just something you roll your eyes, chew bubblegum and
get through. Like you've got to be locked in. And
(13:23):
when guys weren't locked in at walkthroughs, you would drive
him bombers. So that's one way of answering that question.
But I think it's a way to it's opening to question.
Guys can take it anywhere they want to take it.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
That's actually, you know, because we talk about the combined
interviews where you only get fifteen to twenty minutes, it's
very structured. Most teams ask the same questions and then
obviously the players know what questions are coming. You kind
of can't answer, so you try and come up with
some different outside the box questions just to get something
different from the player in those meetings.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
That's actually not a bad one right there. That's what's
kind of fun though.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
But was there anything that frustrated you in your role,
like whether it was with staff or you know, the
job in general, Oh my gosh, probably on a daily basis.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
You just got to work through it.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
You know that it's our job to have answers rather
than just always coming up with you know, complaints or
problems which you tend to get. Like the one thing
with it's hard being a college scout where you're on
the road, you're looking at college players for.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
The following year.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yet you're watching your team play every Sunday, and then
you tend to have a lot of opinions on what
your team should be doing. Right at college, you know,
you're spending Saturday usually watching the game on TV somewhere
and you call your director, you call a GM, Hey,
how can we're not playing so and so?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Hey, how can we're warning the ball on third time
right here? And it would get hey, look trying to
explain it. Hey, look, you're not here every day.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
You don't know the game plan, you don't know who's proxing, well,
you don't know who's been so you know. But you
also like, hey, that college gott he wants to win
like you do. He's putting everything you can into it,
and he wants to have an opinion. So you have
to listen to it for a little bit. But i'd
give a little bit of time. That's like, okay, we
all have our roles. Role right now is to go
find us players for twenty twenty six, right and our
(15:12):
coaches role right now is to get us to.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Win right you know, to win right now. We never
did that. We never did that. No, we were supportive.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I'm glad we're not playing our talented young times. Let's
keep playing those veterans that know what to do, and
we think, you know what, let's just keep losing games.
This is so much fun out here on the road
as I'm away from my family.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
It was funny. It was funny some of those players.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
They complain about our players that we drafted maybe a
couple of years ago, Like, hey, wait, were you standing
on the table for that offense years ago?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
It changes, the wind can change quick. Hey, let's say
let's take quick break. We'll come back.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
We'll jump into some current NFL stuff. But always fun
to catch up with mister Telluska. Will be right back.
All right, Tom, Let's get into some football stuff. What's
going on in the league right now? New England is
team We've been talking about a lot. And people can
look at the schedule, say whatever they want to say.
The record they are, who your record says you are?
They're playing great, Bucky and I have been, you know,
(16:09):
looking at the fact that man two years if you
can get it right in two years, in terms of
within a two year period, if you get the head
coach to quarterback, and one of those two years you
ace the draft, which they definitely did this year.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
It can turn.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Man, whoever you think a franchise is, it can turn
within a couple of years.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
It's turned quick.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
I mean, if they had six wins right now, I'd
be surprised, but having nine, I thought.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
They were still a year or two away.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
I was, you know, I did a lot of NFL
radio on Serious X sum this summer, talked about the
Patriots all their changes, and I'm like, look, I still
think they're year or two away. And then they lost
Opening Day to the Raiders. It kind of validated kind
of what I thought, like, yeah, look, they're just not
there yet. You know they'll be okay, but they're not
there yet. But obviously they are. And nobody builds a
culture faster than Vrabel. And then you pair that with
(16:55):
Elliott Wolf. Elliott knows talent, and like I said, this
has gone fast. Quarterback helps. That helps accelerate things. But
they've got a probably minimum five starters out of the
draft this year, which is basically amazing. To do two
offensive linemen with Campbell and Wilson and Travion Henderson. They
(17:16):
got the kicker for a Gallas, so that's four and
then the safety Woodson.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
That's five starters from from the draft. So that allowed
them to.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Really trade two good players Kyle Dugger and Keon ken White,
who probably.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Just maybe just didn't fit the scheme anymore.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
And then defensively, they really bought a defense through for agency,
which rarely works. But if you get your evals right
and you spend the money the right way, which is
again hard to do in free agency, they hit on
it and they're like a top five defense right now.
And some of that scheme, but a lot of that's
the players too. So when you see that quick a turnaround,
(17:52):
I think if you're an owner of a team, that's
you know, stre.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Like, hey, look the Patriots just did it.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
And I know, like in baseball, like the Rebills take
two or three years because you got to, you know,
restart the farm system and move players up, but it
takes time. But in football, once you get the quarterback,
they're kind of proving that turnaround can be a lot
quicker than you think. And you know, they're nine to two.
They've played who they can play this year, but they've
been impressive on both sides of the ball.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
You know, Tom, you mentioned something that I've always been
fascinated by it, Like I think Mike Rabel is an
outstanding coach because I feel like in Tennessee there were
years he did the most with the least and they
were always competitive and edgy and those things you mentioned
about him being a guy that builds a.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Culture unlike anybody else.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Can you just talk about it from a general manager
of you, What is it about Mike Rabel that helps
him connect with players or establish the culture right away?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Because I'm fascinated by his success.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
I think the first part he just said is just,
you know, the connection with players, because you're connecting with
all different players, not just defense, not just offense. And
you got younger players, older players coming from all over
the country, all different thoughts and beliefs, but you have
to pull together as a team. But he just has
that trade that that that team building, team bonding and
(19:08):
then holding accountability trait, and then you know, you combine
that with really good players. But I think having the
playing background always it can always help. You know, he's
been in their shoes, and not as a top draft
pick and not as a as a as a blue
chip player either. He was a tough that's he's an
overachiever really as a player, but a highly productive player,
(19:32):
but had to earn everything he could in the NFL,
and he learned the right way in the Patriots system
as a player, So I think that carries over. But
I think it's just it's just that that connection to
to his players and you can see how they react
to him, how they how hard they play for him,
and either have that trade or you don't.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
He obviously has it. Yeah, I think about it.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
You know, hard pressed to find a guy who comes
in with more clout and credibility, with an owner and
a fan base. He'd already established all that, so I
mean he had the whole, the whole, you know, entire
operation in terms of the city and the organization all
behind him. Knowing that this guy's a winner and he's
done it previously at Tennessee as well, is what he
did as a player there in New England. But it's
been an incredible turnaround there. The other one I wanted
(20:12):
to hit you on was one of the openings that
we have Brian Dayball got let go. The Giants canna
be looking for head coach this offseason, and I was
kind of looking at it. I know, look, it's not
the easiest market in the world. They've split up in
the spit out a lot of a lot of talented
guys as players and executives and coaches. But tom, look
they got a quarterback, they got a left tackle, they
got edge rushers, they got a DT, they got a
(20:34):
big time receiver, they got a running back.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
I think this is a pretty attractive head coaching job. Man,
What do you think? I agree?
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Because number one, they have the quarterback and I think
he's going to be a big time player for them,
and that's where it all starts.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
To me.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
The thing I can't figure out this year is I
agree with you, like they have players on defense. I
thought their front seven was gonna be outstayed this year.
They just haven't played like that. But there's talent on
that side the ball. To have some talent in the secondary.
But to me, the strength of their team I thought
was going to be on the defensive front. And then
they've got linebackers who can really run and have range.
(21:10):
But you're right, they have a lot of pieces, starting
with the quarterback. They have neighbors coming back off injured reserve.
He'll be back next year. They have a left tackle.
They have a running back, I mean Skataboo. He brought
an identity to that offense that they had not had
and I think.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
He can be a real starting running back in this league.
He's shown that.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
You just have to pair them, probably with another player
with a little more juice, a little more speed, but again,
you want to play it more than one back. Anyways,
the offensive line is the thing that's going to have
to be yeah, and that's going to have to be
through the draft. I mean this is it's the same
starting five is in twenty twenty four and they struggled
that year and they just they ran it back with
(21:52):
the same group. That's going to have to be improved
through the draft. It's harden for agency just because if
teams have good offensive lineman, obviously they don't want to
part with them. So it's just and you'll never find
a tackle at starting tackle and for agency usually maybe
a guard center, but that's going to be a project
for the offseason. But uh, they have some skilled position players.
(22:12):
They have a quarterback, they have talent on defense. It's
a tremendous organization and the way they handle things. Family run,
classy organization, and it's in you know, it's in New York.
So yeah, it's going to be a very coveted job.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Buck buck real quick.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
I mean, if you've got the left tackle, Chicago would
be a great litmus test. Like just look at what
I mean. They've rebuilt the interior of that offensive line,
and I think that's something where you get the get
the right tackle on the draft, Go draft yourself a
tackle and then just maybe just being aggressive on interior
offensive line.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
Yeah, look when when when you look at them, you
talked about the offensive line and those things.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
DJ.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
We had a conversation to Tom. This would be good
to get your perspective. We talked about that job might
be a job for someone who has hit the job before,
meaning a coach who's been a head coach before in
the National Football League understands the way of operating. But
I want to ask you time, as a general manager,
if you're thinking about taking someone who has already been
a head coach before, what are you looking for in
(23:07):
the interview or doing the process to show the growth
from their first experience to what they would.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Bring maybe the second and third time around.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yeah, I guess you would talk about, you know, there's
a reason why they're not employed right now, so you
probably want to talk about what happened in their last
job that kind of led to that, and yeah, what
growth has happened from then till now to make sure
that doesn't happen again. Now, every situation is going to
be different, but certainly with the head coach that's done
up before, the interview process is it's a lot smoother.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
They've been through the process.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Many times before, they've been in that seat, they've been
in that job, So there's a lot of questions that
you can kind of get through pretty quickly in the
interview process that you probably would have to hit more
with the first time head coach. But you can really
get into, you know, if they've been out for a year,
been out for two years, or if they've now gone
back to being a coordinator and now I want to
come in your interviewing for head coaching job is.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Yeah, where's the growth and what would you do differently?
What would you do the same?
Speaker 1 (24:02):
I think that'd be a big part of the interview process.
And I think for the Giants job, to me, the
biggest question you're going to ask, you know, potential head coaches,
all right, how do you.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Want to handle Jackson Dart?
Speaker 1 (24:13):
What kind of style do you because obviously he has
a style of how he likes to play. It's just
not conducive for heaping them healthy. I mean, he's not
the size of Josh Allen. He's got decent bulk, but
he's just not He's not six four sixty five two forty.
So how do you want to use them? And how
are you going to get that through to the quarterback?
Because you know, every player say, hey, look this is
(24:34):
my style. That is how I want to play. But
now you're going to play our style. We're going to
keep you healthy, we're going to win games, but we're
gonna have to change a little bit of how we
do this. So I was, you know, what's your plan
for the quarterback and how you're going to handle this
to keep them ready to play for seventeen games?
Speaker 3 (24:49):
When you were interviewing coaches, did you ever get anything
from those interviews that could help your operation? Maybe you
didn't hire that coach, but there was something you learned. Hey,
tell me how you do things where you are or
where you've been, a lot of these guys or coordinators
for successful teams that are interviewing, did you ever take
anything from them and then incorporate in your own organization?
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Well, you learn a lot in the interviews, so I
think certainly yes. Some of the things I like the
most was because usually spend a lot of time talking
about your own team and asking the person you're interviewing,
you know, basically, what do you think of our players?
Who do we have, who do you like? Who do
you think we need to upgrade from? I think that's
always helpful to get an outside perspective from somebody else
(25:30):
of your own players. But do you cover so much
through the process, you know, even down to you know
how you travel? You know, if we're a West Coast team,
do you like to travel Friday to go to the
East Coast? You like to travel Saturday go to the
East coast? Things like that. So yeah, there's certainly things
you can pull out from the interviews that even if
you don't hire the coach, it may help you down
the road. The interview process was fascinating, was fun to
(25:53):
do because you get a chance to meet a lot
of coaches that I had not have ever had, you know,
one on one time with or group had never had
one on one time with.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
And I mean football's football, Like, there's just so much.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
To learn that's out there that that that the game's
changing constantly and people do different things.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
So that's a great place to learn. Time my own
ashes before that she goes, I think it's it's interesting.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
We talked about the beginning of the set and we
talked about how long the season is and now they
are like seven or so games left. As a general managers,
is there anything that you're thinking about doing to enhance
your roster as you get ready for the stretch run?
Speaker 2 (26:28):
For instance, instance, when.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
I was in Green Bay, Ron Wolf would always find
a veteran that was out there.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
He may not be able to play, but he had
either Super Bowl experience or.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
Significant expertise to be able to help the young guys
to get ready for the postseason. Did you ever have
anything in your bag that you're thinking about the final
month of the season. I want to make sure I
have somebody on the team or something that I do
to help our team maximize their potential.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Yeah, I guess probably a little bit a little bit different.
I'd be I'd be worried about signing a veteran right
now who is not on a team out the year,
and now if he was somewhere and in shape or it.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Go, it'd be different.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
But what we used to concentrate on is a lot
of your young players and practice squad players from August
into September is to get those guys ready because we
may need them in November and December. Like they're not
ready to play in September and October anyways, but once
you get into November, December, January, if you have injuries
and you need injury replacements, there's very little places to
(27:23):
go if you try and get another player's.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Practice squad player.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
At that point of the year, most practice squad players
have already been brought up to the active roster that
have you know, NFL traits, so a lot of practice
squads they are picked over at that point, so you
usually have what you have. So it was big on
make sure we're developing our younger players on our practice
squad so they're ready to go late in the year
to kind of keep the system going. And then I
(27:47):
didn't get a chance to do with the Raiders, but
I had done it with the Charges a couple of times.
Around Thanksgiving, I go in on Tuesday morning. It was
a player's day off, but a lot of our rookies
would be in for some player engagement, life light skills
type meetings. I going to meet with all the rookies
and just talk to them about Hey, post Thanksgiving, like,
it gets hard right now. It's hard on your bodies.
(28:08):
It's such a long season. You're not used to this.
It gets hard mentally, and just talking about the process
and that you know, this is normal if you're going
through some tough times right now. It's normal as a
young player because we're gonna need these young guys late
in the year. If you get lucky at the trade deadline,
you maybe you'll get a veteran in that can maybe
help a little bit. But to go out to you
(28:28):
sign somebody right now off the street hadn't been at
training camp.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
You know. I have a hard time doing that, but
I gotta get the young guys ready to go.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
That's a great point. Last one for me, Tom will
let you go. How have you enjoyed being a casual
watcher of football this year?
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I love just telling some of this yesterday.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
I love Sundays just watching games from you know, West
Coast wise with the international games from six thirty am
until eight thirty pm. To watch this many games and
not have to worry about who wins or who loses.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
I root for certain people in the league.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
That I know, but it's not like it was before,
where every game is life or death, not only our
games but the teams in our division. And you're always
worrying about something else. And so to sit back as
a fan and watch all these games, it's incredible. Absolutely
love it. There's nothing better than Sunday. It's just just
doing this and hope they'll be working again at some point.
(29:21):
It won't always be like this, but I'm enjoying it
right now.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
He's just like all of us, you know what I mean.
We all are just football fans at Barton. It's fun
to take in a ball game and doesn't affect your
life all that much who wins or who loses. Just
get a chance to enjoy a nice football game when
we get to each Absolutely, it's not a bad gig.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Man, No it is not.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
That's fantastic, all right, You're the best time. We appreciate
you giving us as much time as you have. We'll
do this down the road again. Appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Awesome, Thanks Buck, Thanks DJH.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
There he goes Buck, Tom to LESCo. A great friend,
a great dude, and a great football mind. Fun to
just kind of go where you want to go. I
mean talking about scouting, nerd out on that stuff, as
well as some of the some of.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
The other topics that are pertinent to what's going on
in the league right now. Yeah. Look, tremendous amount of success.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
He has so much knowledge and like you said, in
the need of Bill Paulding for a long time and
so being able to take all that, what he learned
from a Hall of Fame executive, what he learned as
a gentle manager of two different franchises is great to
tap into that as a resource.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
I don't know how you were, but I remember, like,
to me, the difference wasn't watching the NFL games when
I was done, It was watching how different it was
to watch college games, because when you were watching college games,
you were only paying it. You were just looking at
the guys that you would watch tape on. So I'm
just watching like this, they have a left tackle prospect.
I'm gonna watch college game, but I don't even really
notice the game. I'm just watching him every snap on TV,
(30:44):
and it didn't really appreciate the entirety of the game.
You just watching specific players, and I know, obviously we're
still in the draft space and we get time to
get to those guys. It was fun for me just
to like, oh, I can just kind of take it
all in and just watch the game.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
It's kind of fun. No, it's fun.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
And if you are a football fan, and we are
noted football, He's like, there's so much diversity within the
game in terms of, particularly on Saturdays, style of play,
how people go about playing offense and defense, the type
of players that are playing quarterback position, those things. I'm
just fascinated by the many different ways that people are
able to win games. And same thing is like on Sundays,
(31:19):
because he talked about like Sunday Funday, like when you
aren't affiliated and you can just watch the games from
six thirty am.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
On the West Coast all the way to night.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
It's just fun watching the game without having to have
something hanging on it, hanging in the balance on whether
the outcome goes your way or not.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Man, No, doubt well again, thanks to Tom Teleusko for
joining us. We'll have him on here as we come
down the home stretch of the season and head towards
the offseason as well.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
That's going to do it for us. We appreciate you guys.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
We'll see you next time, right here on both the sticks.
And now move the sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
What's up everybody?
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Welcome to move to sticks, DJ, Bucky and our good
friend Tom Telesco joining us today. Tom, how are you doing, man.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on again.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Well excited, I mean we were just sitting here chatting
before we went on about you know, how underratedly long
the NFL season is in comparison to the other football
that we're around. High school football pretty much wrapping up.
We've got college football heading towards championship weekend. But man,
there's a lot of NFL football left.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
That's the one thing with rookies when they come in
the league, to try and explain them how long this
league really is, because essentially, right now we're at the
midway point of this year. If you're a high school player,
you're basically your season is either ended or you have
one or two weeks left. If you're a college player,
you're getting ready for conference championship games and potentially a
bowl game. But as far as they have this many
regular season games left, and these are the most important
(00:54):
games right now as you get towards the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Yeah, looking forward to you know, some of these meaningful
matchups in terms of the scouting thing. By the way,
real quick, we'll get to a bunch of other topics
I want to get to on the NFL side of things.
But man, this is the time of year where I'm
just starting to jump into the college guys, and you just,
you know, before I watch the tape, let me call
and at least get some measurables on some of these guys.
It has not changed over the years. Man, the listed
(01:19):
measurables versus the verified measurables is a it's still a canyon,
a grand canyon, est gap between those that still exists.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, of course, all the way back to high school
when you get the height, weights and speeds on players,
and then it goes into college recruiting and then you know,
you know, strength coaches are great at colleges. They do
a tremendous job, but a lot of numbers you get
from the schools are kind of juiced. Yes, ten times
forty times you know, bench presses, short shuttle, three cone and.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Even heightened weights.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
But to me, I mean that's verified information is so
important when you start watching these players, like I need
to know, like if an offensive tackle is the two
eighty five or is he three h five, that's a
big difference.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
So having the real numbers is important, you know, Tom.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
It's funny the other day DJ and I were talking
about body types and I was on the field before
we played the textas and I was looking at daneil
Hunter and just how big and how long he is.
Do you still find value and that when scouts go
on the road and they're doing those first school visits
to body type the players. So you're talking about the verifies,
but also to be able to give you a visual
(02:23):
depiction of what a player looks like on the hoof.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I think it's that's one of the area scouts one
of their biggest jobs is to paint a picture of
the player as if I haven't seen them at risk,
as if their college director has not seen them at
or the head coach. So and part of that is
just kind of described the body type. Now, just because
the player is long and looks great doesn't mean to
be a great player, but it still kind of gives
us a visual of what that player can be, you know,
(02:47):
good or bad. And then it used to be probably
not as much so now try and give us a
feel of could this player put on weight on his frame?
But it does seem like the way colleges are nowadays,
between their training tape and their strength conditioning programs. Most
players that we receive from Division one, certainly I kind
of are what they are at this point body wise.
(03:07):
I think thirty years ago was different, where you know,
you have a tackle maybe weighs two eighty five and
you know you can get another fifteen twenty pounds on them.
But yeah, that's probably one of the bigger parts of
live scouting, certainly at a game where a practice, Yeah, it.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Turns out not having to go to classes a way
to meet your physical potential in college.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Now some of the changes over the years.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Hey, it's all online. It's all being done above board.
I'm not throwing into lobs there, Buck. I was talking
to Tom a little before you popped on, and I
wanted to have this conversation with you as well. But
I was listening to an interview the other day with
a former manager in baseball, and they were asking him
about the changes in baseball from you know, when he
began twenty five years ago to where it is now.
He was referencing the influential voices where it used to
(03:51):
be more of a small circle, and now all these
other different departments in terms of sports performance, in terms
of you know, obviously your pitching group, your hitting group,
they have offensive coordinators now on baseball they have you know,
all the advanced stuff, all the analytics, all the technology
that's been incorporated into this, and so that circle of
influence has really grown. And I thought we got Tom
(04:11):
On here, someone who's been a GM for two different teams. Tom,
I'm curious, how how does the NFL compare in that
way and how did it change from when you first
started to where you were last year.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Well, I know I had a chance to sit in
some different baseball at draft meetings, once with the Padres
when Josh Burns was the GM, and then once with
the Angels when Billy Eppler was there, And yeah, their
departments are certainly they have more people, they have more
I mean, they have to scout more players, so they
have more areascals, they got more directors. But then they
(04:43):
have more departments really than the NFL does. But I
think even in the NFL, you're taking a lot of
opinions from a lot of people. So initially your group
is very large as far as who you were talking to.
And then and I learned this from Bill Polling, as
you get towards the end of the process, when you're
making the decision on the on the players, that's more
of a small group discussion involving the head coach, you know,
maybe your college director or player personnel director and the GM.
(05:06):
But when you're starting initially, I mean there's a lot
of voices in it. I mean, if you just look
at Area Scouts, Regional Scout, director of College Scouting, and
then you look at assistant coaches, coordinators, head coaches, and
then you just talk about the information received from your
strength coaches. I like to always hear about body types
(05:27):
from them, lean weights, body.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
You know that sort of thing.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Doctors, medical, We have a ton of meetings with our
team doctors to go over all the durability, all the
character things that we receive from our security department psychological testing.
So there's a lot of things that go into getting
all the information together on the player and then on
the back end and a smaller group taking all that
information together kind of put a bow around it and
(05:53):
try to make a decision on players.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
So Tom, because you talk about like how vast that
that conversation is, so many people, so many voices, When
do you have to move all those people out of
the room so you can get with the smaller guys.
Is there like a timeframe like the beginning of April
when are.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
You trying to like eliminate some of the outside noise. Yeah,
that's a great point. I wanted all of that done
by April first because a lot of the information and
receiving on the back end, not so much the player evaluation,
the information you have that already, but a lot of
the medical and the character and the psychological testing and
even like you're the eVols from your coaches. I want
(06:32):
to make sure I have that by April first. And
now then we'll go to a small group and put
that together. Now what I had done, and this could
be right, could be wrong. When I would meet with
the strained coaches, or I meet with the doctors, or
meet with the college scouts or the coaches, I did
it all separately, kind of in a vacuum. I wanted
to hear their opinions. I didn't want them influence by
anybody else. So we would do all those meetings separately
(06:54):
with those groups, and then you know, I would tie
it all together in the back end, and sometimes you'd
have some question on somebody and we'd bring somebody in
and kind of bounce some things off them. But it's
a large amount of information to go through, and every
year seems like it's more and more, and part of
the job is trying to figure out what information really
doesn't factor. So let's just throw that out and just
(07:15):
stick with the information we know that factors for us
and trying to make the highest odds decision we can
on a player.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
I've thought about this the other day, and I don't
know that we've ever had this discussion. And I know
the three of us have talked so much over the
years about you know, scouting and where it's going and
innovation and those things.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I was thinking about this, you know, Tom.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
We'd always say, you know, guys are better at evaluating
certain positions. You have the same scouts for a period
of time, some guys are just going to have a
more you know, favorable outcome when they're watching wide outs
and maybe they don't, you know, do as well when
they're doing linebackers. And you can assign guys different positions
based off their strength and their.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Hit record over the year. But then there's also been
times where we would talk.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
About, oh, this guy's a really good evaluator, but he's
not great on background. And maybe this scout is awesome
in terms of getting background information, but we don't necessarily
trust as grades.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Are you surprised.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
And maybe this maybe some team has done this, But
I almost wonder why you almost look at it as
two different jobs and say, we're going to send our
best background guys. Don't even worry about giving us your
tape work. We're going to the school. You guys have
these sources that you've been able to accumulate over the years,
and let's get you in there, get as much information
as you can, and let's get you out of there.
You could cut the day in half, really and then
(08:25):
get you out to the next place to go gather
more information. And maybe some of the other guys are
doing more of the tape work.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Sounds good on the surface, I would worry about morale
by telling an area scout, hey, look, you are great
on background, but you kind of suck at the evail portion,
so just want should go into the schools and just
talk to people.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
So I think, you.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Know, putting it together our scouting staff is not a
lot different than putting a team together. So trying to
make sure all that because there's there's no perfect players,
no perfect coaches, and no perfect gms. There's no perfect
scouts all the time. So yeah, you do get a
feel for different scouts. Who's better than others, some like inherently,
maybe one guy's a little better on the offensive line.
So if you're in a scouting meeting and we're talking
(09:07):
about an offensive lineman, maybe that guy hasn't seen him,
I say, hey, look, hey, so and so, why don't
you go watch him and just you know, next time
you come in the media, come in, give give me
your thoughts. Is a little bit of a cross check.
And the same with even background information. If there's a
piece of information I feel like we need we don't have,
then you know, you may be send a guy in
to a special assignment. Hey, I want you to go
do a little special work on this player to try
(09:28):
and help us out, try.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
And answer some of these questions. But it's it's a
puzzle you're constantly trying to put together.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Did you ever have anybody though, where you might have
one guy who's just an animal in terms of going
in there and unearthing information. Say, hey, we've got some
conflicting information on this player. We don't have a great
feel for him. I know you're in this role in
this part of the country, or hey, we need to
get on a plane and get down to you know,
Iowa to give us, you know, a real take on
this player.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I'll tell you what.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Maybe not so much putting them on a plane to
go somewhere. But when I was with.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
The Charge as we had area scout, I think he's
still there.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Chris Hobbs. He had great people skills and he just
had a way of.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Pulling information out of people.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
So he was one of those scouts that I knew,
whatever information we're getting from the West Coast on those
players like that was rock solid, Like I don't have
to worry about going anywhere else to get the information
because he just had a great feel for it. And
some people it's just in their in their personalities that
are just really good at on earthing and just and
and that's the other thing is the longer you're in
an area, the more you know the coaches, the more,
(10:29):
they trust you that that information that they give the
area scout will go to the club but won't leave us.
And we got to make sure that because that's, you know,
information that shouldn't be public, but it's information that we
need and we have to make sure we protect that
the best we can, or else you go back to
that school and they're not going to tell you that
the truthful information.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
You know. Town.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
This is all fascinating because it does it kind of
reminds me of the initial.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Years of scouting. We're getting PTSD buck, we're gonna shake
in hair.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
No no, no, no, no, but but but but like when
you're getting trained, because I do think that there is
an art to it where you naturally have an eye,
but there's a lot of training that goes into teaching
somebody how to be a scout. Tom, how much time
did you guys spend on really training your scouts in
terms of not only what you're looking for, but the
entire process of being a scout beyond just evaluating the tape,
(11:16):
but all of the other things that go with it.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah, that's part of the director of college Scouting's job,
the director player of personnel his job to a certain extent,
the GM's job is they really have to teach, especially
your younger, your younger scouts, and they usually start out
as scouting assistance, where part of that job is they're
in the office so they can kind of learn.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
But there's certainly an art to it.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
And even as far as gaining information, we talk about,
you know, going into a school and getting background on players.
We brought in a private investigator who I've known way
back for thirty years, d and Richie Toffitt, and he's
basically a PI, and he gave our scouting staff a
presentation on how to ask the right questions to make
sure you pull that information out standing at it. So
(12:01):
we do diff different things like that every training camp.
It was a big time to try and go through
and just talk about each position group, what we're looking
for and.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
What it looks like.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
But it's, uh, that's the all the directors jobs and
GM job is to keep you developing your younger scouts,
you know, when they come in the organization.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
You know, I've long been fascinated by the questions that
you know, what are the right questions to get to
some interesting answers to at least learn something about somebody.
So the one that we've been using lately is one
that I picked up for my buddy Ken Coleman is
in the leadership space tom So.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
We Askedkeikley this. He gave us a great answer.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
But I'll ask you this, as someone who's been a
general manager, what ticked you off? As far as answers,
you can take it whatever you want to take it.
Just what would make you mad when you were in
that role? What would what would really bother you? What
would tick you off?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Are you talking about in in a scouting meaning, just
like when we were talking to a player.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
It could be in life, it could be. It's an
open ended question. That's why it's such a great question
because you could take it.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Let me give you, I'll give you, I'll give if
you could answer that a thousand different ways.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
You're right, that's why you learn about somebody. Because we
asked Keikley this. Right now he's retired. Hey, as a player,
what really ticked you off? He said, Oh, guys that
weren't locked in and walk throughs would drive me nuts.
Like this is not a waste of time. Be focused
worrying about your assignment. Know what you're supposed to do,
take the right step like this is not this is
not just something you roll your eyes, chew bubblegum and
get through. Like you've got to be locked in. And
(13:23):
when guys weren't locked in at walkthroughs, you would drive
him bombers. So that's one way of answering that question.
But I think it's a way to it's opening to question.
Guys can take it anywhere they want to take it.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
That's actually, you know, because we talk about the combined
interviews where you only get fifteen to twenty minutes, it's
very structured. Most teams ask the same questions and then
obviously the players know what questions are coming. You kind
of can't answer, so you try and come up with
some different outside the box questions just to get something
different from the player in those meetings.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
That's actually not a bad one right there. That's what's
kind of fun though.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
But was there anything that frustrated you in your role,
like whether it was with staff or you know, the
job in general, Oh my gosh, probably on a daily basis.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
You just got to work through it.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
You know that it's our job to have answers rather
than just always coming up with you know, complaints or
problems which you tend to get. Like the one thing
with it's hard being a college scout where you're on
the road, you're looking at college players for.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
The following year.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yet you're watching your team play every Sunday, and then
you tend to have a lot of opinions on what
your team should be doing. Right at college, you know,
you're spending Saturday usually watching the game on TV somewhere
and you call your director, you call a GM, Hey,
how can we're not playing so and so?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Hey, how can we're warning the ball on third time
right here? And it would get hey, look trying to
explain it. Hey, look, you're not here every day.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
You don't know the game plan, you don't know who's proxing, well,
you don't know who's been so you know. But you
also like, hey, that college gott he wants to win
like you do. He's putting everything you can into it,
and he wants to have an opinion. So you have
to listen to it for a little bit. But i'd
give a little bit of time. That's like, okay, we
all have our roles. Role right now is to go
find us players for twenty twenty six, right and our
(15:12):
coaches role right now is to get us to.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Win right you know, to win right now. We never
did that. We never did that. No, we were supportive.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I'm glad we're not playing our talented young times. Let's
keep playing those veterans that know what to do, and
we think, you know what, let's just keep losing games.
This is so much fun out here on the road
as I'm away from my family.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
It was funny. It was funny some of those players.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
They complain about our players that we drafted maybe a
couple of years ago, Like, hey, wait, were you standing
on the table for that offense years ago?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
It changes, the wind can change quick. Hey, let's say
let's take quick break. We'll come back.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
We'll jump into some current NFL stuff. But always fun
to catch up with mister Telluska. Will be right back.
All right, Tom, Let's get into some football stuff. What's
going on in the league right now? New England is
team We've been talking about a lot. And people can
look at the schedule, say whatever they want to say.
The record they are, who your record says you are?
They're playing great, Bucky and I have been, you know,
(16:09):
looking at the fact that man two years if you
can get it right in two years, in terms of
within a two year period, if you get the head
coach to quarterback, and one of those two years you
ace the draft, which they definitely did this year.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
It can turn.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Man, whoever you think a franchise is, it can turn
within a couple of years.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
It's turned quick.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
I mean, if they had six wins right now, I'd
be surprised, but having nine, I thought.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
They were still a year or two away.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
I was, you know, I did a lot of NFL
radio on Serious X sum this summer, talked about the
Patriots all their changes, and I'm like, look, I still
think they're year or two away. And then they lost
Opening Day to the Raiders. It kind of validated kind
of what I thought, like, yeah, look, they're just not
there yet. You know they'll be okay, but they're not
there yet. But obviously they are. And nobody builds a
culture faster than Vrabel. And then you pair that with
(16:55):
Elliott Wolf. Elliott knows talent, and like I said, this
has gone fast. Quarterback helps. That helps accelerate things. But
they've got a probably minimum five starters out of the
draft this year, which is basically amazing. To do two
offensive linemen with Campbell and Wilson and Travion Henderson. They
(17:16):
got the kicker for a Gallas, so that's four and
then the safety Woodson.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
That's five starters from from the draft. So that allowed
them to.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Really trade two good players Kyle Dugger and Keon ken White,
who probably.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Just maybe just didn't fit the scheme anymore.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
And then defensively, they really bought a defense through for agency,
which rarely works. But if you get your evals right
and you spend the money the right way, which is
again hard to do in free agency, they hit on
it and they're like a top five defense right now.
And some of that scheme, but a lot of that's
the players too. So when you see that quick a turnaround,
(17:52):
I think if you're an owner of a team, that's
you know, stre.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Like, hey, look the Patriots just did it.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
And I know, like in baseball, like the Rebills take
two or three years because you got to, you know,
restart the farm system and move players up, but it
takes time. But in football, once you get the quarterback,
they're kind of proving that turnaround can be a lot
quicker than you think. And you know, they're nine to two.
They've played who they can play this year, but they've
been impressive on both sides of the ball.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
You know, Tom, you mentioned something that I've always been
fascinated by it, Like I think Mike Rabel is an
outstanding coach because I feel like in Tennessee there were
years he did the most with the least and they
were always competitive and edgy and those things you mentioned
about him being a guy that builds a.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Culture unlike anybody else.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Can you just talk about it from a general manager
of you, What is it about Mike Rabel that helps
him connect with players or establish the culture right away?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Because I'm fascinated by his success.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
I think the first part he just said is just,
you know, the connection with players, because you're connecting with
all different players, not just defense, not just offense. And
you got younger players, older players coming from all over
the country, all different thoughts and beliefs, but you have
to pull together as a team. But he just has
that trade that that that team building, team bonding and
(19:08):
then holding accountability trait, and then you know, you combine
that with really good players. But I think having the
playing background always it can always help. You know, he's
been in their shoes, and not as a top draft
pick and not as a as a as a blue
chip player either. He was a tough that's he's an
overachiever really as a player, but a highly productive player,
(19:32):
but had to earn everything he could in the NFL,
and he learned the right way in the Patriots system
as a player, So I think that carries over. But
I think it's just it's just that that connection to
to his players and you can see how they react
to him, how they how hard they play for him,
and either have that trade or you don't.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
He obviously has it. Yeah, I think about it.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
You know, hard pressed to find a guy who comes
in with more clout and credibility, with an owner and
a fan base. He'd already established all that, so I
mean he had the whole, the whole, you know, entire
operation in terms of the city and the organization all
behind him. Knowing that this guy's a winner and he's
done it previously at Tennessee as well, is what he
did as a player there in New England. But it's
been an incredible turnaround there. The other one I wanted
(20:12):
to hit you on was one of the openings that
we have Brian Dayball got let go. The Giants canna
be looking for head coach this offseason, and I was
kind of looking at it. I know, look, it's not
the easiest market in the world. They've split up in
the spit out a lot of a lot of talented
guys as players and executives and coaches. But tom, look
they got a quarterback, they got a left tackle, they
got edge rushers, they got a DT, they got a
(20:34):
big time receiver, they got a running back.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
I think this is a pretty attractive head coaching job. Man,
What do you think? I agree?
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Because number one, they have the quarterback and I think
he's going to be a big time player for them,
and that's where it all starts.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
To me.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
The thing I can't figure out this year is I
agree with you, like they have players on defense. I
thought their front seven was gonna be outstayed this year.
They just haven't played like that. But there's talent on
that side the ball. To have some talent in the secondary.
But to me, the strength of their team I thought
was going to be on the defensive front. And then
they've got linebackers who can really run and have range.
(21:10):
But you're right, they have a lot of pieces, starting
with the quarterback. They have neighbors coming back off injured reserve.
He'll be back next year. They have a left tackle.
They have a running back, I mean Skataboo. He brought
an identity to that offense that they had not had
and I think.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
He can be a real starting running back in this league.
He's shown that.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
You just have to pair them, probably with another player
with a little more juice, a little more speed, but again,
you want to play it more than one back. Anyways,
the offensive line is the thing that's going to have
to be yeah, and that's going to have to be
through the draft. I mean this is it's the same
starting five is in twenty twenty four and they struggled
that year and they just they ran it back with
(21:52):
the same group. That's going to have to be improved
through the draft. It's harden for agency just because if
teams have good offensive lineman, obviously they don't want to
part with them. So it's just and you'll never find
a tackle at starting tackle and for agency usually maybe
a guard center, but that's going to be a project
for the offseason. But uh, they have some skilled position players.
(22:12):
They have a quarterback, they have talent on defense. It's
a tremendous organization and the way they handle things. Family run,
classy organization, and it's in you know, it's in New York.
So yeah, it's going to be a very coveted job.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Buck buck real quick.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
I mean, if you've got the left tackle, Chicago would
be a great litmus test. Like just look at what
I mean. They've rebuilt the interior of that offensive line,
and I think that's something where you get the get
the right tackle on the draft, Go draft yourself a
tackle and then just maybe just being aggressive on interior
offensive line.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
Yeah, look when when when you look at them, you
talked about the offensive line and those things.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
DJ.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
We had a conversation to Tom. This would be good
to get your perspective. We talked about that job might
be a job for someone who has hit the job before,
meaning a coach who's been a head coach before in
the National Football League understands the way of operating. But
I want to ask you time, as a general manager,
if you're thinking about taking someone who has already been
a head coach before, what are you looking for in
(23:07):
the interview or doing the process to show the growth
from their first experience to what they would.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Bring maybe the second and third time around.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yeah, I guess you would talk about, you know, there's
a reason why they're not employed right now, so you
probably want to talk about what happened in their last
job that kind of led to that, and yeah, what
growth has happened from then till now to make sure
that doesn't happen again. Now, every situation is going to
be different, but certainly with the head coach that's done
up before, the interview process is it's a lot smoother.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
They've been through the process.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Many times before, they've been in that seat, they've been
in that job, So there's a lot of questions that
you can kind of get through pretty quickly in the
interview process that you probably would have to hit more
with the first time head coach. But you can really
get into, you know, if they've been out for a year,
been out for two years, or if they've now gone
back to being a coordinator and now I want to
come in your interviewing for head coaching job is.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Yeah, where's the growth and what would you do differently?
What would you do the same?
Speaker 1 (24:02):
I think that'd be a big part of the interview process.
And I think for the Giants job, to me, the
biggest question you're going to ask, you know, potential head coaches,
all right, how do you.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Want to handle Jackson Dart?
Speaker 1 (24:13):
What kind of style do you because obviously he has
a style of how he likes to play. It's just
not conducive for heaping them healthy. I mean, he's not
the size of Josh Allen. He's got decent bulk, but
he's just not He's not six four sixty five two forty.
So how do you want to use them? And how
are you going to get that through to the quarterback?
Because you know, every player say, hey, look this is
(24:34):
my style. That is how I want to play. But
now you're going to play our style. We're going to
keep you healthy, we're going to win games, but we're
gonna have to change a little bit of how we
do this. So I was, you know, what's your plan
for the quarterback and how you're going to handle this
to keep them ready to play for seventeen games?
Speaker 3 (24:49):
When you were interviewing coaches, did you ever get anything
from those interviews that could help your operation? Maybe you
didn't hire that coach, but there was something you learned. Hey,
tell me how you do things where you are or
where you've been, a lot of these guys or coordinators
for successful teams that are interviewing, did you ever take
anything from them and then incorporate in your own organization?
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Well, you learn a lot in the interviews, so I
think certainly yes. Some of the things I like the
most was because usually spend a lot of time talking
about your own team and asking the person you're interviewing,
you know, basically, what do you think of our players?
Who do we have, who do you like? Who do
you think we need to upgrade from? I think that's
always helpful to get an outside perspective from somebody else
(25:30):
of your own players. But do you cover so much
through the process, you know, even down to you know
how you travel? You know, if we're a West Coast team,
do you like to travel Friday to go to the
East Coast? You like to travel Saturday go to the
East coast? Things like that. So yeah, there's certainly things
you can pull out from the interviews that even if
you don't hire the coach, it may help you down
the road. The interview process was fascinating, was fun to
(25:53):
do because you get a chance to meet a lot
of coaches that I had not have ever had, you know,
one on one time with or group had never had
one on one time with.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
And I mean football's football, Like, there's just so much.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
To learn that's out there that that that the game's
changing constantly and people do different things.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
So that's a great place to learn. Time my own
ashes before that she goes, I think it's it's interesting.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
We talked about the beginning of the set and we
talked about how long the season is and now they
are like seven or so games left. As a general managers,
is there anything that you're thinking about doing to enhance
your roster as you get ready for the stretch run?
Speaker 2 (26:28):
For instance, instance, when.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
I was in Green Bay, Ron Wolf would always find
a veteran that was out there.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
He may not be able to play, but he had
either Super Bowl experience or.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
Significant expertise to be able to help the young guys
to get ready for the postseason. Did you ever have
anything in your bag that you're thinking about the final
month of the season. I want to make sure I
have somebody on the team or something that I do
to help our team maximize their potential.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Yeah, I guess probably a little bit a little bit different.
I'd be I'd be worried about signing a veteran right
now who is not on a team out the year,
and now if he was somewhere and in shape or it.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Go, it'd be different.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
But what we used to concentrate on is a lot
of your young players and practice squad players from August
into September is to get those guys ready because we
may need them in November and December. Like they're not
ready to play in September and October anyways, but once
you get into November, December, January, if you have injuries
and you need injury replacements, there's very little places to
(27:23):
go if you try and get another player's.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Practice squad player.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
At that point of the year, most practice squad players
have already been brought up to the active roster that
have you know, NFL traits, so a lot of practice
squads they are picked over at that point, so you
usually have what you have. So it was big on
make sure we're developing our younger players on our practice
squad so they're ready to go late in the year
to kind of keep the system going. And then I
(27:47):
didn't get a chance to do with the Raiders, but
I had done it with the Charges a couple of times.
Around Thanksgiving, I go in on Tuesday morning. It was
a player's day off, but a lot of our rookies
would be in for some player engagement, life light skills
type meetings. I going to meet with all the rookies
and just talk to them about Hey, post Thanksgiving, like,
it gets hard right now. It's hard on your bodies.
(28:08):
It's such a long season. You're not used to this.
It gets hard mentally, and just talking about the process
and that you know, this is normal if you're going
through some tough times right now. It's normal as a
young player because we're gonna need these young guys late
in the year. If you get lucky at the trade deadline,
you maybe you'll get a veteran in that can maybe
help a little bit. But to go out to you
(28:28):
sign somebody right now off the street hadn't been at
training camp.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
You know. I have a hard time doing that, but
I gotta get the young guys ready to go.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
That's a great point. Last one for me, Tom will
let you go. How have you enjoyed being a casual
watcher of football this year?
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I love just telling some of this yesterday.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
I love Sundays just watching games from you know, West
Coast wise with the international games from six thirty am
until eight thirty pm. To watch this many games and
not have to worry about who wins or who loses.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
I root for certain people in the league.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
That I know, but it's not like it was before,
where every game is life or death, not only our
games but the teams in our division. And you're always
worrying about something else. And so to sit back as
a fan and watch all these games, it's incredible. Absolutely
love it. There's nothing better than Sunday. It's just just
doing this and hope they'll be working again at some point.
(29:21):
It won't always be like this, but I'm enjoying it
right now.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
He's just like all of us, you know what I mean.
We all are just football fans at Barton. It's fun
to take in a ball game and doesn't affect your
life all that much who wins or who loses. Just
get a chance to enjoy a nice football game when
we get to each Absolutely, it's not a bad gig.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Man, No it is not.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
That's fantastic, all right, You're the best time. We appreciate
you giving us as much time as you have. We'll
do this down the road again. Appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Awesome, Thanks Buck, Thanks DJH.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
There he goes Buck, Tom to LESCo. A great friend,
a great dude, and a great football mind. Fun to
just kind of go where you want to go. I
mean talking about scouting, nerd out on that stuff, as
well as some of the some of.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
The other topics that are pertinent to what's going on
in the league right now. Yeah. Look, tremendous amount of success.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
He has so much knowledge and like you said, in
the need of Bill Paulding for a long time and
so being able to take all that, what he learned
from a Hall of Fame executive, what he learned as
a gentle manager of two different franchises is great to
tap into that as a resource.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
I don't know how you were, but I remember, like,
to me, the difference wasn't watching the NFL games when
I was done, It was watching how different it was
to watch college games, because when you were watching college games,
you were only paying it. You were just looking at
the guys that you would watch tape on. So I'm
just watching like this, they have a left tackle prospect.
I'm gonna watch college game, but I don't even really
notice the game. I'm just watching him every snap on TV,
(30:44):
and it didn't really appreciate the entirety of the game.
You just watching specific players, and I know, obviously we're
still in the draft space and we get time to
get to those guys. It was fun for me just
to like, oh, I can just kind of take it
all in and just watch the game.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
It's kind of fun. No, it's fun.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
And if you are a football fan, and we are
noted football, He's like, there's so much diversity within the
game in terms of, particularly on Saturdays, style of play,
how people go about playing offense and defense, the type
of players that are playing quarterback position, those things. I'm
just fascinated by the many different ways that people are
able to win games. And same thing is like on Sundays,
(31:19):
because he talked about like Sunday Funday, like when you
aren't affiliated and you can just watch the games from
six thirty am.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
On the West Coast all the way to night.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
It's just fun watching the game without having to have
something hanging on it, hanging in the balance on whether
the outcome goes your way or not.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Man, No, doubt well again, thanks to Tom Teleusko for
joining us. We'll have him on here as we come
down the home stretch of the season and head towards
the offseason as well.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
That's going to do it for us. We appreciate you guys.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
We'll see you next time, right here on both the sticks.
Hosts And Creators
Daniel Jeremiah
Bucky Brooks
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