December 2, 2025 • 31 mins
Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks are back with a new episode of Move the Sticks! They kick things off by breaking down the Patriots’ dominant win over the Giants on Monday night, then dive into Drake Maye’s MVP-caliber second season and Abdul Carter’s early professionalism concerns (0:00). Later, the guys spotlight Jaguars defensive coordinator Anthony Campanile as their Coordinator of the Week (16:52) and break down what separates the league’s most effective pass rushers. (25:38)
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now move the sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
What's up, everybody? Welcome to move the stick, DJ and
Buck with you. Buck. What's going on? Man? Man? I'm good, DJ,
I am good, coming off a great little Monday night activity,
watching Drake May play like I've never expected him to
play before, and the page roll to another win. No,
it's great. Ball is great.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I knew Drake was talented, and I liked him. I
gave him a really good grade, and I thought we
might see this version of Drake May like year four,
maybe maybe even like glimpses of it in year three. Man,
he is so far ahead of schedule. I mean, the
guy's gonna he's got a legit shot that win the
MVP in a second season in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
That's just crazy, man, It is crazy. But DJ, I'm
wrecking my brain because I'm trying to figure out what's
the lesson to be learned in the evaluation of him, because,
you know, like having been really close to that, because
he is a tar heel, like having known so many
people there, having been around his dad for a long time,
I felt like I was maybe too close to the kid,
(01:07):
too close to the situation. You know, all of the stuff.
He didn't play his last year high school, sat behind
saying how it didn't play two years, doesn't have a
lot of experience coming into the pros. And then you know,
last year was last year. But now he looks like me.
He looks like a ten year vet. The way the
game appears to be so easy for him. I just
(01:27):
don't Yeah, I don't know how this changes the quarterback
evaluation going forward, but there has to be some kind
of deep dive that we do on him to kind
of figure out what we can pull out of the
quarterback sit The quarterback you've gout.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, So going back to that draft, I had him
as my second quarterback, so I had him just above
Jadon Daniels one spot and a man, I got a
lot of grief on that last year when Jaden Daniels
did his thing and had that team humming. And now
fortunate he's hadn't been healthy this year, so I haven't
got a chance to see him with that Commander's offense.
But here's my report on him coming out.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Here's the Drake report.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Prototypical size, athleticism and arm strength, quick feet, quick hands,
but his delivery can get a little long at times.
He's a gifted thrower who drives the ball without much
foot space in the pocket, including with defenders hanging on him.
He can take pace off the ball on swings and
shallow crossers, has a nice touch on bucket throws down
the field. He's athletic to escape and create with his legs,
(02:25):
and he's tough to tackle in space, ultra competitive as
a runner, something he might need to dial back a
bit at the next level. His pass protection wasn't good
last season at North Carolina, and there weren't always answers
in the route to bail him out, which led to
some poor decisions and carelessness with the ball. Overall, May
has some things to clean up, but he has every
ingredient to be a top tier starter at the game's
most important position. And you know, I was thinking of
(02:49):
like reading that in I mean, we saw the same
thing with Josh Allen. We saw the same thing with Mahomes.
Like people say, Okay, what are those guys happening? Calm, Well,
they're all athletic, they're physically gifted tools the guys. But
to me, there's two aspects of it that stand out
to me and the more we got to learn about him.
Number One, incredibly smart. All those guys were very, very smart,
(03:10):
but this one is the most important one to me.
He did not play with superior talent. Josh Allen did
not have an elite offensive line at Wyoming. Obviously, Patrick
Malmes did not have one at Texas Tech, and he
did not have one at Carolina. So some of these
other quarterbacks who like, it's an adjustment for some of
these other guys coming from some of these other positions,
(03:30):
other you know, other you know, you're at Ohio State
or you're you're at those Clemson teams, Like they were
better when they lined up than everybody that they played against.
Whereas these guys had to they had to get used
to playing in a crowd. And that's what NFL football
is man.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, you know, it is interesting you talk about those
those guys, Pat Mahomes and Josh Allen. We use those
as the main ones having to really be the league
dog of a crew of underdogs. Meaning it wasn't every
time they stepped in the stadium that they had the
best team around them. Sometimes they were fighting uphill. You know,
(04:05):
they were having to do the most with the least,
and that put them in a situation where they had
to be the driving force of the offense. They had
to be the guy before they had to be the
guy in terms of not being the manager, but being
the game changer or as we have always talked about,
they had to be the truck. Where some guys had
the luxury being the trailer, they had to be the
(04:26):
truck their entire collegiate experience. So they're very comfortable playing
that role as pros. And with Drake, it was more
the inexperience that you worried about. It wasn't the tools
because like his whatever first year at Carolina, like he said, records,
he did stuff that Deshaun Washston stuff it had done
(04:46):
in the ACC like he's one of only a few
to do. It was like three thousand yards and seven
hundred yards rushing and a bunch of touchdowns and all that.
So it wasn't the talent. It literally was the experience.
And you have so little experience in jumping to the
pros and have success right away. And he has proven
to be like those other guys have proven to be
(05:07):
outliers in that.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
In that situation, Well, if you think about those conversations.
Remember with mahomes, Hey, these Texas Tech quarterbacks and man,
they put up a bunch of numbers. But that doesn't
that doesn't translate to the NFL. Josh Allen, I mean,
he's doing this at Wyoming. You know, like, what is
you know, in the game against Iowa, he didn't play
well when they played against Iowa and Oregon I think
was the other team, and it's like, okay, well they
(05:30):
didn't really have a whole heck of a lot there,
I mean, and then and then he got hit. What's
the truebisky thing come out of Carolina and was like, okay,
well we saw you know, Mitch Tubisky come out here
and that didn't really necessarily work. And it's just another
reminder to me, you got to every evaluation is an
individual evaluation. You can't grade the helmet. You can't grade history.
You got a grade not only that the player, but
then the person. And I think you know those guys
(05:52):
Ace the person test as well as as what they
were as a player and Drake, you want to find
one bad word about it for anybody that's you know,
all those guys at Carolina.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Everybody loved him. I mean, I absolutely loved the kid. Yeah,
loved him, and I think I think a few different things.
Like we've always talked about betting on the character of
the kid. I would tell you having known his dad.
His dad was a legendary player in high school in
North Carolina. Three sport athlete comes to Carolina Places quarterback.
He is there a few years before I get there,
but he was still a GA when I came in,
(06:22):
So he would check classes and do all the other stuff.
So you know, the family brothers play at a high
level in college. Wanted playing overseas basketball and baseball, respectively,
So he comes from an athletic family. Always had to compete.
You think about the high school teams that he played for,
Like played with a bunch of guys that were sons
of pros. So he understood how to blend and kind
(06:42):
of you know, like the play with the different parts
of the locker room and be very very comfortable in
his own skin leading a bunch of different guys. Gets
to Carolina sits behind Sam Howell, doesn't bitch and mom fuss,
his learns behind them. Has a tremendous amount of respect
for in places role as the backup while Sam is
the start it, dident takes over maintains that relationship. So
(07:03):
there's a lot of these positive characteristics and qualities when
we talk about that position. Because you played that position,
you know that position is more than the talent. There's
so many intangibles that come with that. Maybe it's betting
on the intangible qualities with the tools that he had
that would lead you to believe that he's going to
be successful and be successful in a major way with
(07:25):
no doubt.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
It's interesting to see these young quarterbacks having so much success,
all these second year guys team success. I mean, right now, Caleb,
I think they're the number one seed and the NFC
with the Bears, Drake is the number one seed in
the AFC with Bo Knicks nep at his heels. I
mean that all these second year guys. Bo Nix is
another one who now he hasn't enjoyed quite the same
(07:46):
success that Drake has had this year, but he's someone
who's winning a lot of games, playing winning football. And
I go back to his time at Auburn where he
went through real adversity. That offensive line he played with
there was not good playing against the elite defensive lines
every week, and it did not, and he struggled with it,
but he also got used to having to survive in
(08:07):
some of the chaos that you have to survive in
and didn't have just an easy path where if he'd
been an organ his whole career, he'd had all these
numbers and we go, I don't know, is he ready
for this, you know, the adversity that's going to come
his way. I think Auburn that experience is what prepped
him for it.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, that experience. And you know, like I'm gonna say
this because I feel like people always talk at the
top of the board about the quarterback class and he's
rarely mentioned as being a standout. But you know, Caleb
and Jane, Dames and Drake made like they all got
their flowers through out the process, and bo Nix was
kind of the throw in at the end. But when
you really look at the situation one going to Denver
(08:44):
with Sean Payton, you could see what Sean Payton liked
about him. Very mature, lots of experience, has some scuff
marks that we talked about. The quarterbacks need to get
scuffed up a little bit. The adversity prepares them for
the league and then does the like flinch when Sean
Payton coaches him hard. And then you look this year
(09:05):
because people are still trying to figure out how good
all the Broncos. They have eight one score wins and
those things. But I'm like, bo Knicks has six. When
you need to drive, he's come through and in those moments.
It was funny. I was listening to radio last night
while I was driving. They were talking about, like, man,
you know, maybe they should go up Temple whatever because
he appears to be at his best half end of game. Yeah,
(09:26):
because it's two minutes and the control is on him.
They may not need to do that the entire game
because it plays it plays away from the strength on defense.
But what that tells me is, oh, he has the goods.
Maybe they have a governor on him a little bit
where he can't fully unleash it, but bo Knicks has
the goods to do it. You can't win the amount
of close games that he's won without being a really,
(09:48):
really good quarterback. I just don't think people talk about
him enough. When they talk about the top three, he's
always kind of like an afterthought. Yeah, well you mentioned
those six.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Kleb I think has five, which is the most embarrass
history with several games left the play. So these guys
have been good in big moments, and Drake his thing
is they've been handling business, so he hadn't had to
do that too much because of how efficient and how
accurate and how well he's played.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
So they're saying he does have a three hundred yard game.
He doesn't have a three hundred yard game, but the
efficiency that he operates with, Like man, he's one of
those guys that when you go to practice, the balls
not hitting the ground looks like a I'd imagine that's
what it's like in New England. The way Josh mcdamee's
and those guys have constructed this offense. It is out
(10:32):
out and then they lean into his athleticism and it's
play making the building.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yeah, he's doing the stuff that Brady got to later
in his career with Josh McDaniels. He's doing that year
two you too with him. That's insane. It's scary.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
It is scary how good they can be because they
haven't even really upgraded the talent on the perimeter, like
when they start adding more pieces.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Or just simply play together even longer. You want the
guys that he's got. Oh, just scary. That's the positive
side talking about some young players. Let's get to the
other side.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Now.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
I'll say this, Abdul Carter once he got into the game,
was impactful. He got his first sack and he was
pressuring and he's I know the sack numbers aren't there,
but when you watch him when he's on the field,
he is impactful.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
He's explosively, he's dynamic.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
I mean, I think as a player, I feel comfortable
with that evaluation. But buck Man, the guy can't show
up on time. He gets suspended his second time, and
I believe three games where there's been a punishment for
him being late or missing things. Just a lack of professionalism.
And I give look, I'll give my Kafka credit.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Man.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
It have been easy for him to say, I shoot,
I got all hands on deck. I'm trying to win
this job. I need to have all my most talented players.
But he took a bigger picture view of it and
said that there's got to be some accountability and some
standards here. And I'm a bench this dude for a quarter.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Look, DJ, I understand it. In there, you know, two
times in three weeks where we've had to have this
situation with Abdul Carter. It leads me to believe there
was probably a bigger problem before Kapas stepped in and
started doing some of these things the next time. And
it has to be a game like because if you're
hitting them in his pocket and it's not changing, if
you send him down for a series and in the court,
(12:15):
it's not changing, you have to have something that's more
significant to get to them. And you know, we can
do all the character in background checks and do all
this other stuff as the beginning to think about guys,
but you know, there's a want to that you have
to have in terms of wanting to be a high
end professional, wanted to be a great player, wanted to
live up to the expectations that come with you being
(12:36):
third overall pick whoever he was picked at like that
has to be in you. And I'm concerned, Ricky, season
that we have in these troubles and you've already been
kind of slapped on the wrist a few times. Who's
gonna reach him, Who's gonna get him to be what
they need him to be.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
He's gonna need some tough love, man, And I don't
mind them having everybody talk about why you got to
get offensive coach for Jackson Dart. I don't mind them
getting a defensive head coach and then putting a good
offensive mind there. Whether or not that's you want to
leave Kafkin there for some continuity on the offensive side
as a coordinator, whether you want to get somebody else
in there. But I don't mind having a defensive head
(13:13):
coach bringing a standard. You know, I think I think
of Demico Ryans and what he's done. You know, just
how much credibility he walks into a building with. I
look at their defensive coordinator underneath him. Now Matt Burke,
who's been around great players and great defenses. I think
he'd be a great head coach candidate. But they need
somebody to come in there and kind of get him going,
(13:34):
because the encouraging part is this, there's this feels more
like an immaturity issue than it does somebody who doesn't
care about football or like football. The guy played with
one arm in the college playoffs last year. So to me,
if it was just about making some money and and
not about loving or having a passion for the game,
I don't think he would have played when he was
(13:56):
injured at the end of the year last year. So
I do think he likes Paul. He just needs to
grow up. And this is an immature thing or anything else.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yes, it's an immature thing. But I will say this
because war coming out and we don't know. Everyone talks
after someone has been fired all these things about what
is going on, what's transparent within the culture. But they
talked about a lack of accountability in those things, and DJ,
we don't have a chance to win games if we
can't even do the things that take no talent, If
(14:23):
we can't show up on time, we can't wear what
we're supposed to wear, If we can't give maximum effort
and have a great attitude, we have no shot of
being able to maximize the x's and o's and all
the things that take place between the lines, Like that
stuff has to be cleaned up early, like that has
to be the bare minimum of just being a professional
and being able to do that. So I worry not
only about Abdua Carter, but if this has been allowed
(14:47):
to go on for a while with the Giants, you
now understand why it can be difficult for this team
to turn the corner because those little things show up
in the game in those key moments when someone jumps
off side, or you blow up coverage or you can't
remember how to a line up in the right thing.
It doesn't appear to carry over, but it does. And
those when people talk about how you do anything, it's
(15:09):
how you do everything. Man. Those little things, those small
details matter. And so you want to get it right
for abduu Carter because you want him to maximize his
potential and what he can be in this league, and
for the jobs. You want to get it right because
the only way our team can compete at a high
level is if everyone is doing the right things to
give ourselves a chance on Sunday to be at our best.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah, I think it goes back into the conversation we
were having about kind of the Steelers and their struggles,
is that everybody's not everybody's not on a string, everybody's
not connected, everybody's not doing their job. And the first
part of the job is you got to show up
and clock in. That's the us the part of our job.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
First part, show up on time, be in the meetings,
take notes, do all of the other stuff. And it's
frustrating because like there's a new generation of players, young players.
I'm talking about young people that Hey, what's the big deal?
Not that big. It's a pattern of behavior that you're
trying to eliminate. And the professionalism part is a big
(16:06):
part of it. You're playing pro football, like there is
an expectation that this is your job and you have
to treat it as such. So you want him to
get right, you want him to understand it. But also
remember DJ when we talk about working for different teams
and knowing the area and the city and the trappings
of the life of the city that you're in, you
have to know that because everyone can't play in New York,
(16:29):
everyone can't play in some of these cities that are
active and vibrant. And so hopefully we can get it
straight and he can be everything that we think he
can be as a player.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Well, the talent is definitely there. I think you'll see
that production will follow here if you can just just
stay focused here, that's all he has to do. Let's
take quick break. We'll come back with our coordinator of
the week right after this. All right, Buck, it is
time for Hot or Not, brought to you by with
Sabi hot cloud storage.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
It is uh, it.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Is always interesting when we're looking at these coordinators of
the week here, what does that look like? And who
stood out? And I'm going to give you I'm going
to give you one from your squad this week for
our coordinator of the week. And make sure I'm saying
this correctly, Jags d C Anthony Campinelli, Is that right?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah? I was so close, man, so close.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Yeah, tell me tell me about him because I don't know,
I don't know a ton about his background, but the
job that he's done. Give you a couple of notes here.
Two takeaways on Sunday raise their season total to twenty
uh that is tied for the third most in the NFL.
Nine takeaways and twenty four were the fewest, so major
major upgrade there. Their fifth and defensive EPA per play,
fifth and most pressures in the league. So they've done
(17:44):
a lot of good things there under their defensive coordinator.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, he's done a really good job. And DJ, you
can appreciate this. He's a guy who got to start
off like coaching in high school coach of Don Bosco
in Jersey. He's a Jersey guy. He understands it as
you are closer to the pro game, you understand that
these guys are just big, grown up high school players
like they need that same level of accountability and connection
(18:08):
to be able to succeed. And the best thing that
he has done is he's really connected with the team.
And I will say this because I find it to
be uncommon or rare that when you have pro players
talk about playing hard for their coach, that is not
a normal NFL thing. But that's the vibe that I
get when I talk to the players pregame, postgame, and
(18:28):
that they talk about how man coach has done a
really good job. We just want to play so hard
for him. From x's and o's, I think he has
a great understanding of the strengths and the weaknesses of
the team, and he tries to put them in a
situation where the game is easy so they can play
fast and free. Against Tennessee Titans, what he did is
he took a look the first drive, they kind of
(18:50):
punched the jackson the moutf and then he settled in.
He is really good at making adjustments. And I know
we're living a time where people don't believe that people
make time adjustments or adjustments on the side line. But
absolutely people are making an adjustment because I've seen him
do it and he just has a really good feel
for this team. And people haven't paid attention, but Josh Einzellen.
In the last five games he has five and a
(19:11):
half sacks after being stuck on a half a sack
for the first part of the season. And it's just
being able to kind of tinker with things to get
it right. He has makes it being a really good
defensive coordinator and into showing that his team, his unit
put on on Sunday, was reflective of that. So I
want to see if you have a different version aster
a different example.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
So I get asked the other day about you know,
what's the examples of a good culture, and I've I've
used that line that to me, it's how your little
tackle and how your bigs run. You know, when you
get oh Bacon and running things down, and you get
your little guys who either want to block his receivers
or who want to get in the mix and are
excellent tacklers on the other side of the ball, I
think that says a lot about your culture. The other
(19:52):
two things I've pointed to are just hats to the ball.
It's old school, but I mean, you know, it's like, hey,
everybody get in the frame. Make sure everybody's getting to
the football. Is everybody running to the ball. And the
last thing I wrote down there was, you know, and
thinking about this and watching this tape every week, is Man,
the good defenses. I know Belichick's actually big on that.
I don't know if people know this, but he's big
(20:12):
on on celebrate with your teammates.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Guys, go make a tackle. Hey, let's go pat.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Him on the back, slap them on the butt, high fives,
like you celebrate other people's success. But there's an energy
and a collective excitement even when you're not the guy
making the play. And man, I think you see that
with some of the better defenses in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Well, DJ, it really matters because like, that's if you're
being that's when you're being a good teammate. The good
teammate is happy to see his guy have success. It's
not oh, I'm moping in the corner and man, I
wish i'd made to play. If I made the play,
I'll be happy, but I'm not happy for my guy
that makes the play. That's what it's all about and
you know pro football is so tricky, right because you
(20:52):
have fifty three independent contract is that are really trying
to do their thing for their own, respecting their self,
their families or whatever, which still trying to get him
to buy into those values that you learn in Little
league about the team and we over me and the
collective over the individual. So it's a it's a real
tough dance that coaches have to kind of deal with
(21:14):
when it comes to trying to get everyone to buy in.
But you're right, best coordinators, best coaches are able to
get that. And it's funny you were talking about Biggs
running to the ball, Little's making tackle and Anthon Kevin
Neilly has a saying that good things happen when you
run to the ball. The football guys reward people that
run to the ball, and if you just think about
(21:36):
the good defenses when you're running to the ball, the
ball pops up and it just lands. And the thing,
because look, the university brow is hustle. If you just hustle,
you have a chance to make things happen just running
to the foot.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yeah, I saw it firsthand, and the Charter game last week,
I don't know if you saw the interception from Tony Jefferson.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
But that ball he's in, he's in the middle of
the field. The ball is thrown to the sidelines. It's
a deep ball down to the sideline. He's never going
to get there in time to make a play on
the ball. So it's either going to it's just going
to be caught, or he's going to be out of bounds,
or it's going to be in a completion. But he
sprints over there, the ball gets Dante Jackson. Jackson pops
it up in the air and then as he's going
to the ground, he pops it back into the field.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Tony Jefferson picks it off and gets his knees down
right on the sideline, just because, like you said, good
things happen when you get to the football, even when
it looks like there's no chance, and you know what,
do you have a chance to make a play?
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Yeah? No, it's funny, right, And it's one of the
things like because I obviously play attention to the charges
because your affiliation there, and I love what jesse Min
is doing to the defense, and I feel like so
much of what he's done to make them a better
defense are the simple things that don't really take a
whole lot of talent. Hey, let's just get lined up right.
Let's make sure everyone if we're supposed to be lined
up at eight yards and two yards inside of the
(22:50):
wide receiver, let's line up like that. Let's make sure
we don't let the ball flower hit. Let's keep everything
in front and rarely and tackle. If I'm outside leverage
and I'm still in the edge, make sure I keep
my house at all free. Everyone else is gonna come
running to the ball. So even if I miss, good
things don't happen. And I think when you boil things
down to those simple things and you harple them and
you get professionals to buy in, that's when we see
(23:13):
great defenses. I'm looking at Denver the other night. They
didn't have their best performance, but when I look at them, man,
a big part of why their success was how hard
they play. The same man. Same thing with the Houston Texas.
I'm looking them, man, they are running to the ball.
They hit you with bad intentions. It's not an ex
and o's thing. It's really an effort thing that you
(23:34):
see from these top defenses.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, I mean the Houston thing is swarm, right, that's there.
That's their motto. They're gonna swarm, And I you know
there's something to it, man, I know. I was talking
to one of their coaches and uh, the Chargers use
the term and you'll hear Jesse Miner use the term
about block destruction like you be just you know, blocked
the st block.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
It's a great it's a great visual word there.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
And then the one that I heard out of Houston
from coach on their staff was like, oh, we electrocute blocks.
It looks almost like a bomb went off when they
hit blocks, man, like it is. They jolt people. But
that speaks to the overall culture that a lot of
these teams and these defenses have created. And it sounds
like the Jags have a good one there. That's a
(24:18):
massive turnaround from one year to the next.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeah. Absolutely, And I think when I'm learning, and I
know we've been like Jags in charge of Centric, but
I think the lessons apply everywhere. I used to think that, like, hey, man, look,
I've always believed that coaching matters, but I always felt like,
like guys kind of have it you put together a
group of people or whatever. But what I'm seeing particularly
in the last few years, coaching does matter in terms
(24:41):
of the demands you demand, and you don't relent on
the demands that you have. And look, we talked about
those simplistic things, those simple things that you need to
have to play good defense, but you have to demand
them every day. That's a demand it in practice and
if you don't, look, there's two ways to do it,
do it right or do it again. You just have
to You have to beyond that. But it takes a
(25:03):
lot of energy to do that. But you have to
beyond the details. And I think when we've seen these
great teams, just like we talked about offense lead the
Bears and Ben Johnson and how all of a sudden
the Bears are so physical and finishing blocks and finishing
runs and those things. Man, you get what you demand,
and I think is more prevalent in this league as
(25:23):
the league is getting younger. Once the coaches figured it out,
they get what they want from the teams, no doubt.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
That was this week's Hot or Not segment, brought to
you by with Sabi Hot Cloud Storage, store more and
do more with your data. Try them for free at
withsaby dot com. I'm watching these edge rushers. For the draft,
I'm walking, you know, knocking them out one by one,
and I'm I want to get your perspective on it,
because I always feel like I'm kind of going back
and forth on this thing when you're looking at the
(25:50):
different styles, which will see pure speed, you know, explosive
but maybe a little more finesse guys, and then you
see guys who maybe don't have that same get off,
but they're powerful, they're rugged, they can crush the pocket.
It's kind of just how do you sequence these guys,
you know, And it's hard for us on the media
side of things, because if I'm if I'm scouting for
(26:12):
the team that I call games for the Chargers, it's easy.
They want they want physical pocket crushers, edge setting guys.
I mean Khalil mack Tully, Twuly Polo too. That is
their style. You go back to the Ravens for all
those years with Terrell Suggs, all those guys. They're heavy handed, strong,
powerful guys, Proanel McFee, you know, Matt Judahon, like on
and on and on and on, like rugged, rugged, rugged, rugged.
(26:34):
But I pulled up the Sack Leaders and I was like, Okay,
I wanted to see what that looks like. And you know,
Miles Garrett is in his own classification, he's everything, He's speed, power,
all that stuff. I would classify Brian Burns as more speed.
He's second in the league with thirteen sacks. Micah Parsons,
I mean he's got power, but man, it's a lot
(26:56):
of speed. You got to deal with their twelve and
a half. Daniel Hunter, I would say both. Josh sweat probably,
I would say both, but has got some power to him.
Bonito is more speed, Will Anderson more rugged power two
a polo two power Byron Young, make sure there Aiden Hutchinson,
I would say, you know, technician more than anything else,
(27:18):
but he's got power, is the main part of his game.
So I can go while Max Crosby, hero Landry Montes sweat.
Like there's all different flavors, all different styles. I don't
think we can definitively say, well, you always go power
over speed or speed over power.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
I don't think you can really do that. No, it's funny,
right because that's always been to debate, like which one
wins the guy that has the first step, quickness and
burst that can turn the corner, or the guy that
has the ability to power rush you and forth lift
you and do those things. I always go back to,
like my experience is like one playing with Reggie White
(27:53):
and also playing with Derek Commas, two different guys. In
Reggie White, you had the ultimate power player that could
run right through you, could long arm. Everyone knows he
had the club moving those things. Derrick Thomas was all
first step quickness, snap count, anticipation, burst and ben around
the corner, and both can be effective in their own thing.
I really think it's about being able to look at
(28:16):
the people and identify what are their signature moves and
trying to project how that signature move is going to
play out in the pro game. So like, if they're
a power player, are they obliterating people? And do they
have an effective counter to the power It gives them
at least two pitches that they can win. Same thing
with the speed rusher. Okay, if you're an up to
field rusher, do you have something else where it's an
(28:39):
up and under or Dwhite Freemi spin, But you have
to if you have two dominant moves. I don't know
if it necessarily matters stylistically how you get to it,
but I think you have to have two in the
bag that you can rely on.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yeah, and there's also teams that are, you know, like
you're a blitz heavy team or you're a multiple looks
where you're going to be able to run a lot
of and then some of those athletic guys, you're going
to be looping him. He's going to get freed up.
And now all this speed plays really really well. It's
no different than like a receiver. We talk about some
schemes you know they really need and rely on the
speed portion of it, and other teams that prefer a
(29:14):
little more physical style.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
So I think it's knowing what fits who you are.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
I think it's probably just a product of where I've been.
But I'm always going to just personally, it's going hard
for me to change. I'm always going to lean to
the power. I don't think power you're ever gonna be
disappointed with a guy who can crush the pocket and
who can set the edge. I think there's always going
to be a role for that guy. Now he might
not have sixteen sacks, he might be more eight to
(29:41):
eleven sacks, but I think it's just a dependable there's
a physicality to it that I like, you know, that
adds to your defense. So I'm always going to probably
lean that way, but I think that's just a product
of my experience.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
It's funny, right, because I think it kind of depends
on what he is and who he is, and we
can talk about past rushes, then we're talking about a
complete player. I think if I'm leaning for the complete player,
I want the guy to has power because the guy
who has power is also going to be able to
theoretically set the edge in the run game. The speed
(30:13):
guy can run around on pass words downs, but he
also can create huge lanes all those downs when he's fool.
So I kind of want someone that is stout enough
to be able to do both. I do lean towards power.
I do. I think power has something that also ages
a more.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
See with Khalil Mack. Khalil Mack is still pretty effective.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah, I think. I think I think a power player
can age gracefully where a speed guy, once you lose
that first step and you lose that burst, he changes everything.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
In no doubt, that was a fun I didn't want
to have that conversation with that. I think that's fascinating
We'll do a lot more of those types of discussions
as we get uh through the regular season and start
talking more draft. I want to remind you we have
an episode coming up on Thursday that'll be Greg McElroy
joined the show. Talk to him about all things college football.
In our next episode will jump into all these coaches
and all this change we've had in the college football landscape,
(31:07):
so be on the lookout for that.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Again.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
What a rookie draft coming up on the next one
as well. So appreciate you guys. We'll see you next time.
Right here on, Move the sticks.
And now move the sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
What's up, everybody? Welcome to move the stick, DJ and
Buck with you. Buck. What's going on? Man? Man? I'm good, DJ,
I am good, coming off a great little Monday night activity,
watching Drake May play like I've never expected him to
play before, and the page roll to another win. No,
it's great. Ball is great.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I knew Drake was talented, and I liked him. I
gave him a really good grade, and I thought we
might see this version of Drake May like year four,
maybe maybe even like glimpses of it in year three. Man,
he is so far ahead of schedule. I mean, the
guy's gonna he's got a legit shot that win the
MVP in a second season in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
That's just crazy, man, It is crazy. But DJ, I'm
wrecking my brain because I'm trying to figure out what's
the lesson to be learned in the evaluation of him, because,
you know, like having been really close to that, because
he is a tar heel, like having known so many
people there, having been around his dad for a long time,
I felt like I was maybe too close to the kid,
(01:07):
too close to the situation. You know, all of the stuff.
He didn't play his last year high school, sat behind
saying how it didn't play two years, doesn't have a
lot of experience coming into the pros. And then you know,
last year was last year. But now he looks like me.
He looks like a ten year vet. The way the
game appears to be so easy for him. I just
(01:27):
don't Yeah, I don't know how this changes the quarterback
evaluation going forward, but there has to be some kind
of deep dive that we do on him to kind
of figure out what we can pull out of the
quarterback sit The quarterback you've gout.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, So going back to that draft, I had him
as my second quarterback, so I had him just above
Jadon Daniels one spot and a man, I got a
lot of grief on that last year when Jaden Daniels
did his thing and had that team humming. And now
fortunate he's hadn't been healthy this year, so I haven't
got a chance to see him with that Commander's offense.
But here's my report on him coming out.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Here's the Drake report.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Prototypical size, athleticism and arm strength, quick feet, quick hands,
but his delivery can get a little long at times.
He's a gifted thrower who drives the ball without much
foot space in the pocket, including with defenders hanging on him.
He can take pace off the ball on swings and
shallow crossers, has a nice touch on bucket throws down
the field. He's athletic to escape and create with his legs,
(02:25):
and he's tough to tackle in space, ultra competitive as
a runner, something he might need to dial back a
bit at the next level. His pass protection wasn't good
last season at North Carolina, and there weren't always answers
in the route to bail him out, which led to
some poor decisions and carelessness with the ball. Overall, May
has some things to clean up, but he has every
ingredient to be a top tier starter at the game's
most important position. And you know, I was thinking of
(02:49):
like reading that in I mean, we saw the same
thing with Josh Allen. We saw the same thing with Mahomes.
Like people say, Okay, what are those guys happening? Calm, Well,
they're all athletic, they're physically gifted tools the guys. But
to me, there's two aspects of it that stand out
to me and the more we got to learn about him.
Number One, incredibly smart. All those guys were very, very smart,
(03:10):
but this one is the most important one to me.
He did not play with superior talent. Josh Allen did
not have an elite offensive line at Wyoming. Obviously, Patrick
Malmes did not have one at Texas Tech, and he
did not have one at Carolina. So some of these
other quarterbacks who like, it's an adjustment for some of
these other guys coming from some of these other positions,
(03:30):
other you know, other you know, you're at Ohio State
or you're you're at those Clemson teams, Like they were
better when they lined up than everybody that they played against.
Whereas these guys had to they had to get used
to playing in a crowd. And that's what NFL football
is man.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, you know, it is interesting you talk about those
those guys, Pat Mahomes and Josh Allen. We use those
as the main ones having to really be the league
dog of a crew of underdogs. Meaning it wasn't every
time they stepped in the stadium that they had the
best team around them. Sometimes they were fighting uphill. You know,
(04:05):
they were having to do the most with the least,
and that put them in a situation where they had
to be the driving force of the offense. They had
to be the guy before they had to be the
guy in terms of not being the manager, but being
the game changer or as we have always talked about,
they had to be the truck. Where some guys had
the luxury being the trailer, they had to be the
(04:26):
truck their entire collegiate experience. So they're very comfortable playing
that role as pros. And with Drake, it was more
the inexperience that you worried about. It wasn't the tools
because like his whatever first year at Carolina, like he said, records,
he did stuff that Deshaun Washston stuff it had done
(04:46):
in the ACC like he's one of only a few
to do. It was like three thousand yards and seven
hundred yards rushing and a bunch of touchdowns and all that.
So it wasn't the talent. It literally was the experience.
And you have so little experience in jumping to the
pros and have success right away. And he has proven
to be like those other guys have proven to be
(05:07):
outliers in that.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
In that situation, Well, if you think about those conversations.
Remember with mahomes, Hey, these Texas Tech quarterbacks and man,
they put up a bunch of numbers. But that doesn't
that doesn't translate to the NFL. Josh Allen, I mean,
he's doing this at Wyoming. You know, like, what is
you know, in the game against Iowa, he didn't play
well when they played against Iowa and Oregon I think
was the other team, and it's like, okay, well they
(05:30):
didn't really have a whole heck of a lot there,
I mean, and then and then he got hit. What's
the truebisky thing come out of Carolina and was like, okay,
well we saw you know, Mitch Tubisky come out here
and that didn't really necessarily work. And it's just another
reminder to me, you got to every evaluation is an
individual evaluation. You can't grade the helmet. You can't grade history.
You got a grade not only that the player, but
then the person. And I think you know those guys
(05:52):
Ace the person test as well as as what they
were as a player and Drake, you want to find
one bad word about it for anybody that's you know,
all those guys at Carolina.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Everybody loved him. I mean, I absolutely loved the kid. Yeah,
loved him, and I think I think a few different things.
Like we've always talked about betting on the character of
the kid. I would tell you having known his dad.
His dad was a legendary player in high school in
North Carolina. Three sport athlete comes to Carolina Places quarterback.
He is there a few years before I get there,
but he was still a GA when I came in,
(06:22):
So he would check classes and do all the other stuff.
So you know, the family brothers play at a high
level in college. Wanted playing overseas basketball and baseball, respectively,
So he comes from an athletic family. Always had to compete.
You think about the high school teams that he played for,
Like played with a bunch of guys that were sons
of pros. So he understood how to blend and kind
(06:42):
of you know, like the play with the different parts
of the locker room and be very very comfortable in
his own skin leading a bunch of different guys. Gets
to Carolina sits behind Sam Howell, doesn't bitch and mom fuss,
his learns behind them. Has a tremendous amount of respect
for in places role as the backup while Sam is
the start it, dident takes over maintains that relationship. So
(07:03):
there's a lot of these positive characteristics and qualities when
we talk about that position. Because you played that position,
you know that position is more than the talent. There's
so many intangibles that come with that. Maybe it's betting
on the intangible qualities with the tools that he had
that would lead you to believe that he's going to
be successful and be successful in a major way with
(07:25):
no doubt.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
It's interesting to see these young quarterbacks having so much success,
all these second year guys team success. I mean, right now, Caleb,
I think they're the number one seed and the NFC
with the Bears, Drake is the number one seed in
the AFC with Bo Knicks nep at his heels. I
mean that all these second year guys. Bo Nix is
another one who now he hasn't enjoyed quite the same
(07:46):
success that Drake has had this year, but he's someone
who's winning a lot of games, playing winning football. And
I go back to his time at Auburn where he
went through real adversity. That offensive line he played with
there was not good playing against the elite defensive lines
every week, and it did not, and he struggled with it,
but he also got used to having to survive in
(08:07):
some of the chaos that you have to survive in
and didn't have just an easy path where if he'd
been an organ his whole career, he'd had all these
numbers and we go, I don't know, is he ready
for this, you know, the adversity that's going to come
his way. I think Auburn that experience is what prepped
him for it.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, that experience. And you know, like I'm gonna say
this because I feel like people always talk at the
top of the board about the quarterback class and he's
rarely mentioned as being a standout. But you know, Caleb
and Jane, Dames and Drake made like they all got
their flowers through out the process, and bo Nix was
kind of the throw in at the end. But when
you really look at the situation one going to Denver
(08:44):
with Sean Payton, you could see what Sean Payton liked
about him. Very mature, lots of experience, has some scuff
marks that we talked about. The quarterbacks need to get
scuffed up a little bit. The adversity prepares them for
the league and then does the like flinch when Sean
Payton coaches him hard. And then you look this year
(09:05):
because people are still trying to figure out how good
all the Broncos. They have eight one score wins and
those things. But I'm like, bo Knicks has six. When
you need to drive, he's come through and in those moments.
It was funny. I was listening to radio last night
while I was driving. They were talking about, like, man,
you know, maybe they should go up Temple whatever because
he appears to be at his best half end of game. Yeah,
(09:26):
because it's two minutes and the control is on him.
They may not need to do that the entire game
because it plays it plays away from the strength on defense.
But what that tells me is, oh, he has the goods.
Maybe they have a governor on him a little bit
where he can't fully unleash it, but bo Knicks has
the goods to do it. You can't win the amount
of close games that he's won without being a really,
(09:48):
really good quarterback. I just don't think people talk about
him enough. When they talk about the top three, he's
always kind of like an afterthought. Yeah, well you mentioned
those six.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Kleb I think has five, which is the most embarrass
history with several games left the play. So these guys
have been good in big moments, and Drake his thing
is they've been handling business, so he hadn't had to
do that too much because of how efficient and how
accurate and how well he's played.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
So they're saying he does have a three hundred yard game.
He doesn't have a three hundred yard game, but the
efficiency that he operates with, Like man, he's one of
those guys that when you go to practice, the balls
not hitting the ground looks like a I'd imagine that's
what it's like in New England. The way Josh mcdamee's
and those guys have constructed this offense. It is out
(10:32):
out and then they lean into his athleticism and it's
play making the building.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yeah, he's doing the stuff that Brady got to later
in his career with Josh McDaniels. He's doing that year
two you too with him. That's insane. It's scary.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
It is scary how good they can be because they
haven't even really upgraded the talent on the perimeter, like
when they start adding more pieces.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Or just simply play together even longer. You want the
guys that he's got. Oh, just scary. That's the positive
side talking about some young players. Let's get to the
other side.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Now.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
I'll say this, Abdul Carter once he got into the game,
was impactful. He got his first sack and he was
pressuring and he's I know the sack numbers aren't there,
but when you watch him when he's on the field,
he is impactful.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
He's explosively, he's dynamic.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
I mean, I think as a player, I feel comfortable
with that evaluation. But buck Man, the guy can't show
up on time. He gets suspended his second time, and
I believe three games where there's been a punishment for
him being late or missing things. Just a lack of professionalism.
And I give look, I'll give my Kafka credit.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Man.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
It have been easy for him to say, I shoot,
I got all hands on deck. I'm trying to win
this job. I need to have all my most talented players.
But he took a bigger picture view of it and
said that there's got to be some accountability and some
standards here. And I'm a bench this dude for a quarter.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Look, DJ, I understand it. In there, you know, two
times in three weeks where we've had to have this
situation with Abdul Carter. It leads me to believe there
was probably a bigger problem before Kapas stepped in and
started doing some of these things the next time. And
it has to be a game like because if you're
hitting them in his pocket and it's not changing, if
you send him down for a series and in the court,
(12:15):
it's not changing, you have to have something that's more
significant to get to them. And you know, we can
do all the character in background checks and do all
this other stuff as the beginning to think about guys,
but you know, there's a want to that you have
to have in terms of wanting to be a high
end professional, wanted to be a great player, wanted to
live up to the expectations that come with you being
(12:36):
third overall pick whoever he was picked at like that
has to be in you. And I'm concerned, Ricky, season
that we have in these troubles and you've already been
kind of slapped on the wrist a few times. Who's
gonna reach him, Who's gonna get him to be what
they need him to be.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
He's gonna need some tough love, man, And I don't
mind them having everybody talk about why you got to
get offensive coach for Jackson Dart. I don't mind them
getting a defensive head coach and then putting a good
offensive mind there. Whether or not that's you want to
leave Kafkin there for some continuity on the offensive side
as a coordinator, whether you want to get somebody else
in there. But I don't mind having a defensive head
(13:13):
coach bringing a standard. You know, I think I think
of Demico Ryans and what he's done. You know, just
how much credibility he walks into a building with. I
look at their defensive coordinator underneath him. Now Matt Burke,
who's been around great players and great defenses. I think
he'd be a great head coach candidate. But they need
somebody to come in there and kind of get him going,
(13:34):
because the encouraging part is this, there's this feels more
like an immaturity issue than it does somebody who doesn't
care about football or like football. The guy played with
one arm in the college playoffs last year. So to me,
if it was just about making some money and and
not about loving or having a passion for the game,
I don't think he would have played when he was
(13:56):
injured at the end of the year last year. So
I do think he likes Paul. He just needs to
grow up. And this is an immature thing or anything else.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yes, it's an immature thing. But I will say this
because war coming out and we don't know. Everyone talks
after someone has been fired all these things about what
is going on, what's transparent within the culture. But they
talked about a lack of accountability in those things, and DJ,
we don't have a chance to win games if we
can't even do the things that take no talent, If
(14:23):
we can't show up on time, we can't wear what
we're supposed to wear, If we can't give maximum effort
and have a great attitude, we have no shot of
being able to maximize the x's and o's and all
the things that take place between the lines, Like that
stuff has to be cleaned up early, like that has
to be the bare minimum of just being a professional
and being able to do that. So I worry not
only about Abdua Carter, but if this has been allowed
(14:47):
to go on for a while with the Giants, you
now understand why it can be difficult for this team
to turn the corner because those little things show up
in the game in those key moments when someone jumps
off side, or you blow up coverage or you can't
remember how to a line up in the right thing.
It doesn't appear to carry over, but it does. And
those when people talk about how you do anything, it's
(15:09):
how you do everything. Man. Those little things, those small
details matter. And so you want to get it right
for abduu Carter because you want him to maximize his
potential and what he can be in this league, and
for the jobs. You want to get it right because
the only way our team can compete at a high
level is if everyone is doing the right things to
give ourselves a chance on Sunday to be at our best.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah, I think it goes back into the conversation we
were having about kind of the Steelers and their struggles,
is that everybody's not everybody's not on a string, everybody's
not connected, everybody's not doing their job. And the first
part of the job is you got to show up
and clock in. That's the us the part of our job.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
First part, show up on time, be in the meetings,
take notes, do all of the other stuff. And it's
frustrating because like there's a new generation of players, young players.
I'm talking about young people that Hey, what's the big deal?
Not that big. It's a pattern of behavior that you're
trying to eliminate. And the professionalism part is a big
(16:06):
part of it. You're playing pro football, like there is
an expectation that this is your job and you have
to treat it as such. So you want him to
get right, you want him to understand it. But also
remember DJ when we talk about working for different teams
and knowing the area and the city and the trappings
of the life of the city that you're in, you
have to know that because everyone can't play in New York,
(16:29):
everyone can't play in some of these cities that are
active and vibrant. And so hopefully we can get it
straight and he can be everything that we think he
can be as a player.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Well, the talent is definitely there. I think you'll see
that production will follow here if you can just just
stay focused here, that's all he has to do. Let's
take quick break. We'll come back with our coordinator of
the week right after this. All right, Buck, it is
time for Hot or Not, brought to you by with
Sabi hot cloud storage.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
It is uh, it.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Is always interesting when we're looking at these coordinators of
the week here, what does that look like? And who
stood out? And I'm going to give you I'm going
to give you one from your squad this week for
our coordinator of the week. And make sure I'm saying
this correctly, Jags d C Anthony Campinelli, Is that right?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah? I was so close, man, so close.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Yeah, tell me tell me about him because I don't know,
I don't know a ton about his background, but the
job that he's done. Give you a couple of notes here.
Two takeaways on Sunday raise their season total to twenty
uh that is tied for the third most in the NFL.
Nine takeaways and twenty four were the fewest, so major
major upgrade there. Their fifth and defensive EPA per play,
fifth and most pressures in the league. So they've done
(17:44):
a lot of good things there under their defensive coordinator.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, he's done a really good job. And DJ, you
can appreciate this. He's a guy who got to start
off like coaching in high school coach of Don Bosco
in Jersey. He's a Jersey guy. He understands it as
you are closer to the pro game, you understand that
these guys are just big, grown up high school players
like they need that same level of accountability and connection
(18:08):
to be able to succeed. And the best thing that
he has done is he's really connected with the team.
And I will say this because I find it to
be uncommon or rare that when you have pro players
talk about playing hard for their coach, that is not
a normal NFL thing. But that's the vibe that I
get when I talk to the players pregame, postgame, and
(18:28):
that they talk about how man coach has done a
really good job. We just want to play so hard
for him. From x's and o's, I think he has
a great understanding of the strengths and the weaknesses of
the team, and he tries to put them in a
situation where the game is easy so they can play
fast and free. Against Tennessee Titans, what he did is
he took a look the first drive, they kind of
(18:50):
punched the jackson the moutf and then he settled in.
He is really good at making adjustments. And I know
we're living a time where people don't believe that people
make time adjustments or adjustments on the side line. But
absolutely people are making an adjustment because I've seen him
do it and he just has a really good feel
for this team. And people haven't paid attention, but Josh Einzellen.
In the last five games he has five and a
(19:11):
half sacks after being stuck on a half a sack
for the first part of the season. And it's just
being able to kind of tinker with things to get
it right. He has makes it being a really good
defensive coordinator and into showing that his team, his unit
put on on Sunday, was reflective of that. So I
want to see if you have a different version aster
a different example.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
So I get asked the other day about you know,
what's the examples of a good culture, and I've I've
used that line that to me, it's how your little
tackle and how your bigs run. You know, when you
get oh Bacon and running things down, and you get
your little guys who either want to block his receivers
or who want to get in the mix and are
excellent tacklers on the other side of the ball, I
think that says a lot about your culture. The other
(19:52):
two things I've pointed to are just hats to the ball.
It's old school, but I mean, you know, it's like, hey,
everybody get in the frame. Make sure everybody's getting to
the football. Is everybody running to the ball. And the
last thing I wrote down there was, you know, and
thinking about this and watching this tape every week, is Man,
the good defenses. I know Belichick's actually big on that.
I don't know if people know this, but he's big
(20:12):
on on celebrate with your teammates.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Guys, go make a tackle. Hey, let's go pat.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Him on the back, slap them on the butt, high fives,
like you celebrate other people's success. But there's an energy
and a collective excitement even when you're not the guy
making the play. And man, I think you see that
with some of the better defenses in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Well, DJ, it really matters because like, that's if you're
being that's when you're being a good teammate. The good
teammate is happy to see his guy have success. It's
not oh, I'm moping in the corner and man, I
wish i'd made to play. If I made the play,
I'll be happy, but I'm not happy for my guy
that makes the play. That's what it's all about and
you know pro football is so tricky, right because you
(20:52):
have fifty three independent contract is that are really trying
to do their thing for their own, respecting their self,
their families or whatever, which still trying to get him
to buy into those values that you learn in Little
league about the team and we over me and the
collective over the individual. So it's a it's a real
tough dance that coaches have to kind of deal with
(21:14):
when it comes to trying to get everyone to buy in.
But you're right, best coordinators, best coaches are able to
get that. And it's funny you were talking about Biggs
running to the ball, Little's making tackle and Anthon Kevin
Neilly has a saying that good things happen when you
run to the ball. The football guys reward people that
run to the ball, and if you just think about
(21:36):
the good defenses when you're running to the ball, the
ball pops up and it just lands. And the thing,
because look, the university brow is hustle. If you just hustle,
you have a chance to make things happen just running
to the foot.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yeah, I saw it firsthand, and the Charter game last week,
I don't know if you saw the interception from Tony Jefferson.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
But that ball he's in, he's in the middle of
the field. The ball is thrown to the sidelines. It's
a deep ball down to the sideline. He's never going
to get there in time to make a play on
the ball. So it's either going to it's just going
to be caught, or he's going to be out of bounds,
or it's going to be in a completion. But he
sprints over there, the ball gets Dante Jackson. Jackson pops
it up in the air and then as he's going
to the ground, he pops it back into the field.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Tony Jefferson picks it off and gets his knees down
right on the sideline, just because, like you said, good
things happen when you get to the football, even when
it looks like there's no chance, and you know what,
do you have a chance to make a play?
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Yeah? No, it's funny, right, And it's one of the
things like because I obviously play attention to the charges
because your affiliation there, and I love what jesse Min
is doing to the defense, and I feel like so
much of what he's done to make them a better
defense are the simple things that don't really take a
whole lot of talent. Hey, let's just get lined up right.
Let's make sure everyone if we're supposed to be lined
up at eight yards and two yards inside of the
(22:50):
wide receiver, let's line up like that. Let's make sure
we don't let the ball flower hit. Let's keep everything
in front and rarely and tackle. If I'm outside leverage
and I'm still in the edge, make sure I keep
my house at all free. Everyone else is gonna come
running to the ball. So even if I miss, good
things don't happen. And I think when you boil things
down to those simple things and you harple them and
you get professionals to buy in, that's when we see
(23:13):
great defenses. I'm looking at Denver the other night. They
didn't have their best performance, but when I look at them, man,
a big part of why their success was how hard
they play. The same man. Same thing with the Houston Texas.
I'm looking them, man, they are running to the ball.
They hit you with bad intentions. It's not an ex
and o's thing. It's really an effort thing that you
(23:34):
see from these top defenses.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, I mean the Houston thing is swarm, right, that's there.
That's their motto. They're gonna swarm, And I you know
there's something to it, man, I know. I was talking
to one of their coaches and uh, the Chargers use
the term and you'll hear Jesse Miner use the term
about block destruction like you be just you know, blocked
the st block.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
It's a great it's a great visual word there.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
And then the one that I heard out of Houston
from coach on their staff was like, oh, we electrocute blocks.
It looks almost like a bomb went off when they
hit blocks, man, like it is. They jolt people. But
that speaks to the overall culture that a lot of
these teams and these defenses have created. And it sounds
like the Jags have a good one there. That's a
(24:18):
massive turnaround from one year to the next.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeah. Absolutely, And I think when I'm learning, and I
know we've been like Jags in charge of Centric, but
I think the lessons apply everywhere. I used to think that, like, hey, man, look,
I've always believed that coaching matters, but I always felt like,
like guys kind of have it you put together a
group of people or whatever. But what I'm seeing particularly
in the last few years, coaching does matter in terms
(24:41):
of the demands you demand, and you don't relent on
the demands that you have. And look, we talked about
those simplistic things, those simple things that you need to
have to play good defense, but you have to demand
them every day. That's a demand it in practice and
if you don't, look, there's two ways to do it,
do it right or do it again. You just have
to You have to beyond that. But it takes a
(25:03):
lot of energy to do that. But you have to
beyond the details. And I think when we've seen these
great teams, just like we talked about offense lead the
Bears and Ben Johnson and how all of a sudden
the Bears are so physical and finishing blocks and finishing
runs and those things. Man, you get what you demand,
and I think is more prevalent in this league as
(25:23):
the league is getting younger. Once the coaches figured it out,
they get what they want from the teams, no doubt.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
That was this week's Hot or Not segment, brought to
you by with Sabi Hot Cloud Storage, store more and
do more with your data. Try them for free at
withsaby dot com. I'm watching these edge rushers. For the draft,
I'm walking, you know, knocking them out one by one,
and I'm I want to get your perspective on it,
because I always feel like I'm kind of going back
and forth on this thing when you're looking at the
(25:50):
different styles, which will see pure speed, you know, explosive
but maybe a little more finesse guys, and then you
see guys who maybe don't have that same get off,
but they're powerful, they're rugged, they can crush the pocket.
It's kind of just how do you sequence these guys,
you know, And it's hard for us on the media
side of things, because if I'm if I'm scouting for
(26:12):
the team that I call games for the Chargers, it's easy.
They want they want physical pocket crushers, edge setting guys.
I mean Khalil mack Tully, Twuly Polo too. That is
their style. You go back to the Ravens for all
those years with Terrell Suggs, all those guys. They're heavy handed, strong,
powerful guys, Proanel McFee, you know, Matt Judahon, like on
and on and on and on, like rugged, rugged, rugged, rugged.
(26:34):
But I pulled up the Sack Leaders and I was like, Okay,
I wanted to see what that looks like. And you know,
Miles Garrett is in his own classification, he's everything, He's speed, power,
all that stuff. I would classify Brian Burns as more speed.
He's second in the league with thirteen sacks. Micah Parsons,
I mean he's got power, but man, it's a lot
(26:56):
of speed. You got to deal with their twelve and
a half. Daniel Hunter, I would say both. Josh sweat probably,
I would say both, but has got some power to him.
Bonito is more speed, Will Anderson more rugged power two
a polo two power Byron Young, make sure there Aiden Hutchinson,
I would say, you know, technician more than anything else,
(27:18):
but he's got power, is the main part of his game.
So I can go while Max Crosby, hero Landry Montes sweat.
Like there's all different flavors, all different styles. I don't
think we can definitively say, well, you always go power
over speed or speed over power.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
I don't think you can really do that. No, it's funny,
right because that's always been to debate, like which one
wins the guy that has the first step, quickness and
burst that can turn the corner, or the guy that
has the ability to power rush you and forth lift
you and do those things. I always go back to,
like my experience is like one playing with Reggie White
(27:53):
and also playing with Derek Commas, two different guys. In
Reggie White, you had the ultimate power player that could
run right through you, could long arm. Everyone knows he
had the club moving those things. Derrick Thomas was all
first step quickness, snap count, anticipation, burst and ben around
the corner, and both can be effective in their own thing.
I really think it's about being able to look at
(28:16):
the people and identify what are their signature moves and
trying to project how that signature move is going to
play out in the pro game. So like, if they're
a power player, are they obliterating people? And do they
have an effective counter to the power It gives them
at least two pitches that they can win. Same thing
with the speed rusher. Okay, if you're an up to
field rusher, do you have something else where it's an
(28:39):
up and under or Dwhite Freemi spin, But you have
to if you have two dominant moves. I don't know
if it necessarily matters stylistically how you get to it,
but I think you have to have two in the
bag that you can rely on.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yeah, and there's also teams that are, you know, like
you're a blitz heavy team or you're a multiple looks
where you're going to be able to run a lot
of and then some of those athletic guys, you're going
to be looping him. He's going to get freed up.
And now all this speed plays really really well. It's
no different than like a receiver. We talk about some
schemes you know they really need and rely on the
speed portion of it, and other teams that prefer a
(29:14):
little more physical style.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
So I think it's knowing what fits who you are.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
I think it's probably just a product of where I've been.
But I'm always going to just personally, it's going hard
for me to change. I'm always going to lean to
the power. I don't think power you're ever gonna be
disappointed with a guy who can crush the pocket and
who can set the edge. I think there's always going
to be a role for that guy. Now he might
not have sixteen sacks, he might be more eight to
(29:41):
eleven sacks, but I think it's just a dependable there's
a physicality to it that I like, you know, that
adds to your defense. So I'm always going to probably
lean that way, but I think that's just a product
of my experience.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
It's funny, right, because I think it kind of depends
on what he is and who he is, and we
can talk about past rushes, then we're talking about a
complete player. I think if I'm leaning for the complete player,
I want the guy to has power because the guy
who has power is also going to be able to
theoretically set the edge in the run game. The speed
(30:13):
guy can run around on pass words downs, but he
also can create huge lanes all those downs when he's fool.
So I kind of want someone that is stout enough
to be able to do both. I do lean towards power.
I do. I think power has something that also ages
a more.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
See with Khalil Mack. Khalil Mack is still pretty effective.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah, I think. I think I think a power player
can age gracefully where a speed guy, once you lose
that first step and you lose that burst, he changes everything.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
In no doubt, that was a fun I didn't want
to have that conversation with that. I think that's fascinating
We'll do a lot more of those types of discussions
as we get uh through the regular season and start
talking more draft. I want to remind you we have
an episode coming up on Thursday that'll be Greg McElroy
joined the show. Talk to him about all things college football.
In our next episode will jump into all these coaches
and all this change we've had in the college football landscape,
(31:07):
so be on the lookout for that.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Again.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
What a rookie draft coming up on the next one
as well. So appreciate you guys. We'll see you next time.
Right here on, Move the sticks.
Hosts And Creators
Daniel Jeremiah
Bucky Brooks
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