April 11, 2025 • 28 mins
On this episode of Move the Sticks, Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks open up the show with a discussion about the themes of the 2025 NFL Draft (02:10). DJ and Bucky then break down some of the Draft's most polarizing players (08:10) including Tetairoa McMillan, Donovan Ezeiruaku, and Jalen Milroe, and wrap up the show with a round of this or that (19:43).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now move the sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
What's up, everybody? Welcome to move the sticks. DJ Buck
with you, Buck? What is going on man.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Man, Not too much, just trying to get it all done.
DJ low past the draft, got a little writing to do.
We got the pot. It's all good though. You know
what time of the year it is.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Oh yeah, I've got one week till I've got a
little over a week till I have to have my
one fifty done. So that's you know, my final project there.
So I've been working on that, getting stuff organ I
still watching some pop up guys, some workout guys, which
has been which has been a fun exercise, but it's exciting,
you know, looking at the teams more now this time too,
(00:41):
just kind of dialing in on teams, talking to people,
and some things start to crystallize a little bit.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Buck.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
As you get towards the end, you kind of think, like, man,
this is just a big mushroom cloud, have no idea
what's going to go on here? And then at the
end start hearing okay, man, they're off this guy, they're
on that guy. You know, stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah, is funny when we get to it, because I
feel like we're going this big old journey, right we
start where we think about players, then we kind of
go around and we look at tape and we get
this and Buddy started chiming in, and then you kind
of get back to where you started at the end
of the process. And we've talked about this a few
different times. I feel like that also happens in front office.
I think as you kind of sit down and you
(01:20):
get quiet, you get away from like the group think,
and you start like, who are the guys that we
really like? Like, who are the guys that we go
back with this check out notes? Who are the ones
that we absolutely like that we we can fall in
love with. I think that's when you do your best job.
Those are the guys that you really wanted the team.
You can't be swayed by. I would say, like some
of the outside opinions that are kind of buzzing and
(01:41):
circulating as we get closer to the draft.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
No doubt. Uh, that's one true. I've got a couple
things I want to hit on. Today's going to get
to some underrated players, some polarizing players. I've got three
this guy, that guy, conversations I want to have with
you on Day two, Like I think these are day
twoquestions that are fun ones.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I want to get to that first though. I want
to hit this.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
It's time for Hot or Not, brought to you by
WSABI Hot Cloud Storage Buck. I was thinking of the
themes of this draft, like let's just we'll get into
some individual stuff here, but I wanted to get the
thirty thousand foot view. And so these are the three
that I came up with. And I'll be curious to
see if you think there's other themes that kind of
summarize this draft or what kind of encapsulates this draft.
So the three themes I had, and I've hitting on
(02:27):
a couple of these throughout Starters not stars, right, like
this is a team. I was talking to a GM
the other day, a buddy of both of ours, and
he was talking about, we feel like we can upgrade
the bottom of our roster and fortify and strengthen the
middle of our roster and maybe not our top guys,
maybe these aren't going to be our key core stud guys,
but we're going to get better in the back end
(02:48):
and in the middle of our roster in this draft,
so starters not stars, traits versus production. You got to
figure out which side of the aisle you fall on
that topic, especially think about these pass rushers. And lastly, Buck,
I wrote down positional value versus quality of player, Like
these are the three.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Themes that I came up with for this draft.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Yeah, I'm with you on that.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I've heard people talk about the level of draft a
few different ways, and he talked about like really good
not great, Like you have a lot of really good players,
only a handful of great players, and so you need
to pick accordingly. So I believe you can get solid starters,
maybe even high end starters, but in terms of the
game change your difference maker transcendent talents not as many
(03:32):
as we've seen in some drafts. When it comes down
to positional value and player, I think evaluators have to
be really, really careful to not get so caught up
in positional value that you elevate a guy at a
position that is important over top of someone who is
a better player. And I think you just have to
keep that and I think that happens all the time.
(03:54):
And then the last thing is, so many of these
guys have bounced around transfers, you're trying to follow the
odyssey and those things. I think it's really important to
understand what did they learn along the way.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
We've talked about that quarterbacks.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
We kind of like our quarterbacks that have a little
scuff on them to have gone through some adversity and
come on the other side. Well, with these other players,
what have they learned all their journeys where they had
to mounce around and find the right spot for them.
I think all those things are important, But from a
whatever thirty thousand point perspective, yeah, I mean you have
(04:29):
to certainly understand, like where these guys are, what the
class is, and make sure that you make decisions based
on who this class really is, not what we want
them to be.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yeah, And you know, I also think I'll get your
take on it, but this feels like a stick and
pick draft. It doesn't feel like there's enough enticement there
for a lot of movement, you know, at least not
in the in the first round.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
I'm with you, I don't you know.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
It's funny because you know, on TV we get asked
to do trades and all this all the time. You like,
there has to be someone that you're trading for there
has to be a player or really a player or
need that you have that is a must have, got
to get this player to fill it. I don't feel
it strongly about that in this class. This is one
where and we talked about this. I think last year's draft,
(05:16):
the smart teams are looking ahead to not only twenty
twenty five, but twenty twenty six, twenty twenty seven and saying, hey,
I'll auction off some of these picks later in the
draft to get more at a future date. I think
more teams are going to get to the fourth round and.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Be like, yeah, we're good. We're good for today, we're good.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
We'll move on to next weekend because there is this
thing where it falls off. You just want to make
sure that you're bringing players that literally give you a
chance to upgrade your roster, not guys that just fill
holes in the fill up spots on the roster.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
No, it's a really good thought there. I also along
those lines, was talking to someone the other day and
he was talking about his team and saying, you know,
one of the key strengths for our team is that
we know and this is something you've brought up in
the past but he said, we know who our developmental
coaches are. Because I was saying I was like, hey,
you know, I'm doing all these pop up guys, and
(06:09):
you know these guys are potentially like seventh round PFA types,
you know, and people have different strategies on that. Do
you try and get a special teams player that can
come in help you right away? Do you get a
trade syat you know, small school kid. We just you know,
want raw develop and you'll take your time with them.
Do you take the quarterback flyers as you know teams
been wont to do. And he said, you know, and
this team's been successful, and he said one of the
(06:31):
keys our success is we know our developmental coaches. We
know the guys that we can bring in at certain
positions that our coaches can develop. So and he can
of you know, those are those are the positions we're
going to look at late in the draft and we're
just going to get the raw tools.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
He guys, Well, I mean one of the things we've
talked about the job as a gender manager is not
only to you know, scout players and to scout the scouts,
but it's also to scout the coaches the draft and
developed strategy never works if you do the developmental part
of and so when you say, hey, this is how
we're going to build our team, it's going to be
(07:05):
a homegrown team organization.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
This is what we're going to do.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Well, the people that touch the players need to be
really good at developing the players.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Otherwise you're spending your wheels.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
And that requires everyone to not only listen to what
the coaches say in meetings when they're reading their own reports,
but it's observing what they've done with the players they've
been given. Can they turn a C player into a
B player through the diligent work that they do on
the practice field? Can they help a practice squad player
get ready to play quickly at the end of the
year when we see this happen all the time, that
(07:39):
the bottom of the roster players are playing vital roles
on playoff runs just because of the attrition of the season.
It is really important that you know your coaches and
that your coaches are great teachers, great developers if you're
going to subscribe to that theory.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
So, yeah, I agree with you, buddy when he talks
about that the coaches.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Well, i'll tell you later. It's also your all right.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
That was this week's Hot or Not segment, brought to
you by with Sabbi Hot Cloud Storage, store more and
do more with your data. Try them for free at
withsabby dot com. Buck I touched on it at the
top Polarizing Players. I tweeted this out the other day,
and I thought we could kind of go through each
of these players individually, because not only the discussion on them,
but there's other players and other discussions that take place,
(08:22):
and for those that you know, want to peek behind
the curtain. At this point time, majority of the teams,
vast majority, are in their final meetings. They're getting everything
set up. This is the you know, kind of the
week that they're polishing it up and getting the board
set in place. And you have coaches who've had a
chance to go work these guys out, spend time with them,
get to know the person as well as the player.
(08:44):
And you've got the scouts in there and they're all
kind of scrimmaging this stuff out and so and talking
to a bunch of teams. These are the names that
I that I came up with were inside these individual buildings,
not saying just this team for that team, I'm saying
inside the building, They've got wide range of grades. It's
Ted McMillan, the receiver from Arizona. It's donovanz roku edge
rusher from Boston College. It's Revel the corner from ECU,
(09:08):
Shordan Birch the edge rusher, big jumbo EDG Dresher from Oregon.
And it's Jalen Milroe, quarterback from Alabama.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
M interesting list.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
So can you see I'm gonna I'm gonna give you
the player and I can tell you you know what
the discussion is. But I'm curious with your what you
think it would be. What do you think the issue
would be. Let's start with McMillan. Why would people love
him and some people not love him?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I think they would love the size, the athleticism, the
acrobatic plays, the flashes that you see on tape, that
Legia believed that he could be a dominant playmaker at
the next level. Why they would hate him or have
questions about him? The urgency and the consistent dominance isn't there?
You would like you kind of need to get him going.
(09:56):
You want to get the poker to him and be like, man,
you could be such a dominant player, if you would
bring the energy and effort every play. He doesn't do that.
He's more of what we call a cruiser. He's been
good enough. He's been better than everybody athletically, so he
just does enough to dominate without knowing how hard he
has to work to really be a dominant player at
(10:16):
the next level. Maybe it can be taught, or maybe
he is what he is and he's going to continue
to be that as a pro. That would be the
scary part. If I'm in the room, you nailed it.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
The term that was used with one of the teams
I talked to was cruise control. Like I just worry
about the guy who's always on cruise control, Like I
don't see him doll it up. I worry about him
getting off press. I worry about him fighting through what
he's got to fight through at the catch point, and
like he's an incredible, you know, acrobatic athlete. And you know,
it was funny people have looking at the same thing
(10:51):
and come away with different takeaways. And I laugh about
it a little bit because you even hear a positive, right.
I think we don't know if he talked about this before,
but hey, he's got a volleyball background that shows up
and how athletic.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Yeah yeah, and then.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
You know what else you hear he's got a volleyball back.
He's a volleyball player, Like he's not really is he
a dog? Yes, exactly. So that's just those are the
discussions taking place in the room, and you got to
figure out where you land on it. I probably come
down somewhere in the middle. I still have him as
a top twenty player in the draft, you know, DJ,
I think the expectation was going into the Yearbuck that
(11:23):
this was going to be a top five pick.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
It was that was the expectation.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
In fact, I started the process thinking that he was
going to be a top five, top ten player given that,
because I think when I close my eyes, I envisioned him.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Being Mike Evans.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
He's not, I know, but I envisioned him being someone
that's big and fast and physical, that dominates like that.
But that's not what he is, you know, but that's
what you would You would hope that someone who has
those tools, been given those tools off the assembly line
will become a player like Mike Evans has become a
dominant player.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yeah, I think some of that is if that was
your image going into the process. You came away from
it and being like ah man. But if you just
went with the blank slate and just watched him as
who he is and what he is, you'd be.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Like, it's a good player. He is a good player.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
He is, he is a good player. You wonder where
he tops out at? Look for me, everything is about
where he.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Goes and who is his position? Coach?
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Who's the one that can unlock a little more?
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, all right, let's get to the next one here,
Eziraku who I'm a fan of? And I can five
found teams that are in GMS and coaches that are sponsors,
and I found gms and coaches that are skeptical. And
I'll kick it to you. What do you think the
what do you think the difference is there?
Speaker 2 (12:43):
The people that love him, they love the motor, they
love a production and just the relentlessness that you see
him play with. The people that are anti the link
or the size, the packaging doesn't necessarily fit, and you
wonder what is he going to give you on those other.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Downs that are not passing down?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Like can't he stay on the field and hold his
own on the edges? When you need him to be
that every down player.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
So it's close. I mean, he's got he's got long arms.
He's one of those unique guys where he's six to
two but he has length. So he's got the long arms.
The concern really is just he doesn't have power. So
and again, like I think this is an interesting way
to frame these because you can say the same thing
and come away with a different conclusion. He wins a
lot of different ways. I like because he has a
(13:32):
lot of different ways to get to the quarterback, but
power and ruggedness is not one of them. And I
was talking to a coach. You brought up a point
and was like, hey, he needs fewer pitches, like you know,
like all these pitches are great, but you you know,
he needs too many. He has too many. He needs
to be able to win, like watch the NFL, which
power is a big part of how you win in
the NFL. You have to be able to collapse and
crush the pocket. So he's got to develop that. Can
(13:54):
he develop that? And my thing was I think that
there's you know, we talked about the tight entry a
while ago, and you have kind of like the Gronk tree,
the Kelsey tree of the different styles of guys. And
we've talked about craftsmen on here a lot about pass
rushers who are craftsmen.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
But if you look at it, those guys don't.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
It doesn't happen right away because they've been able to
use all these different tricks in college. Like Trey Hendrickson,
look at his sack totals his first few years in
the league. It took a couple of years before it hit,
and then it hit big. I think last year we
would be on the same page and say Leatu Latu
was the most gifted skilled pass rusher, but that didn't
click right away because all that stuff doesn't always translate.
(14:33):
You've got to figure out what works now. I think
all three of these guys are smart, and I think,
you know, obviously Hendrickson's blown it up. He's figured it
out and become a great player. I think Latu is
going to get there. He's not there yet. And I
think with Israraku, I think the same thing. I think
he's got some he can play with some leverage. He's
just he needs to work on power and just and
(14:54):
convert that power. But I like him a lot. I
you know, I think he's got a chance, there's teams
that like him. I think he's got a chance. It
could be a top twenty pick. I've looked at Tampa.
But that's the conversation on him.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
The thing about that when someone is more finesse than force,
you do wonder what happens when he meets that mountain
of a man that can sit down on him and
not let him get to his go to move. What
is the alternative If you can't just race around the edge,
if you can't out wiggle him, what do you have.
The guys who are balanced in terms of being able
(15:27):
to turn speed into power, they can win with force
or finess. They're the ones that consistently rings up ring
up twelve thirteen, fourteen sacks because they have a few
different ways to get there. Not saying that he's a
one trick pony, but he certainly has to have the
game tilted a certain way for him to have success
coming off the edgees.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, that's you know, that's going to be the challenge
that you got to figure that out. Chavon Ravel a
corner from ECU. I mean, look, he's coming off of injury,
so he hasn't been healthy through the year with the ACL,
so that's you know, that's a big part of that discussion.
I also think there's just some teams that don't like
the taller, legier corner, So a lot of that's going
(16:07):
to be usage, I think with his debate.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yeah, scheme pit is everything for him, but also DJ
here's the other i'lle be surprised that people haven't talked about,
like his history. If you really look at his history,
you're coming out of high school, going to a Juco,
going to Louisburg, making his way to East Carolina playing
that one year, didn't getting hurt this year. There's not
an extensive resume that you can really like lean on.
(16:31):
When we talk about him being a first round pick
or top of the second round pick, it is definitely
more projection than anything.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
And part of that projection is how are we going
to use him? How does he fit in the scheme
that we run?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
And I would expect he would be on so many
different places, on different boards.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Tended on what scheme they play.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
To me, he's the old school Seattle type corner, the
old school Sherman Brandon Brown or that gout super long.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
We'll see though, We'll see where he fits yep. I
think he goes on day two. I think he'll go
in the second round next one. Jordan Birch from Oregon.
You know he's six four one two sixty nine four
sixty seven. This discussion, Buck is kind of a tweener
those that see the glass half full and those that
see it half empty. He's kind of a finesse, big
(17:22):
guy on the edge. He can really go. I mean
he can really really run. Some teams feel like his
best fit is gonna be what he can do as
a subrusher inside. But similar to Ziaku, I think that
discussion is just kind of like is he rugged? You know,
is he rugged enough?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I mean that's the thing, because that's a big part
of the game, Like you gotta have guys in trenches
that can can embrace a rock and socker robot style.
That would be the big question I would have after
looking at him on tape, like can he get down
and dirty? Can he make it physical enough if we
have to have that kind of game plan, that would
be a major question concern.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
And then finally Jalen Milroe. Again we've talked about it.
We talked aout him a lot on here, so we
don't even go along here. But it's pretty simple. I mean,
you you you buy into the athletic package and you're
banking on just time and development that there's more there.
You know, he's smart, he's a good worker, he's an
incredible athlete. The main sticking point with a lot of
(18:17):
teams has been vision decision making. You know, just gosh,
does he see it? Does he see it?
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Really? Well?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
That's kind of the that's the topic that comes up
on the teams that are that aren't buying it.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
It's such a hard thing because I wish I could
kind of read ahead, get to the last page of
the book to figure out where he goes, and then
I can give you a thumbs up or down on
whether I believe he'll make it. A lot of it
with Jalen Milroe is not only the athleticism and how
you want to use it, but do you buy into
the kid. A lot of the reason why Jalen Hurts
worked is because you could buy into the kid that
(18:49):
he was going to figure it out based on his work,
ethic and his leadership skills in those things. With Jalen Murroe,
can people get close enough to him to say, hey,
I'm going to bet on the kid. I'm on the
bet that he is going to put everything into it
and figure it out along the way how he needs
to play to be able to help this offense move
the ball consistently and to win games as he's continued
(19:12):
to add tools to the tool belt.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yeah, no, I think he's going in the second round, man,
I do. We'll see.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I'm pretty confident that he was going to it. Threw
me off that when he got the invitation to whatever.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Well, you never know, yeah, you never know. No, Yeah,
but no, I think I think you'll end up going
early in the second round. So we'll see what happens there.
Let's take a quick break, come back. I want to
hit a couple underrated players, and then I've got three
this or that questions for you.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
We'll get to it right after this.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
All right, buck, I was just going through it, and
to me, it was I had a connection with three
guys who I thought were kind of I just really
like him as players, and I talked to teams there
I found some love, some like I should say, maybe
not love, but I just think these guys are all
three good football players. I think all three of them
belong on Day two and ironically, they all play in
(20:05):
the secondary for the cal Bears. Noel Williams the corner
who had seven picks at three against Auburn. He played
well at a pick six against cam Ord. He's feisty,
he's quick, he just has excellent ball skills. He's you know,
he's big. He's over six foot right around two hundred pounds,
ran four or five flat. Marcus Harris another corner from there,
is a little a little more juice, a little more twitch,
(20:28):
real fluid, great athlete, recovery speed. And then Craig Woodson
is one of my one of my favorite safeties. He's leader,
he's smart, he can play all over the place, deep, half,
smooth mover ran four four five, He's a firm tackler,
just overall real smart, good player. I thought all three
of those cal Bears are good players, and I thought
maybe a little undervalued. Is there anybody that that you
(20:49):
look at in this draft as you kind of go
through the process, and you're like, you know what, I'll
bet on that one.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
No, I like, I like those guys that you mentioned.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
It is funny because I think Williams was at the
East West frying game and we're talking because I'm trying
to figure out who his agent is. I think his
agent is a buddy of mine because they talked to
me about him.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
I remember having to look at him.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
And there were a couple other guys that were at
that game that I feel strong about that we're in
the secondary. Kobe Bryant from Kansas, super competitive. If you
can see him in one on one drills or whatever,
man dude goes NonStop, plays hard, just all out and
the frame scares you. But I love the toughness, the
intensity that it brings to the field. And then this
is a bit of a homer, but he also was
(21:29):
at the game. Elijah Hussey niver back from North Carolina,
pretty knee. I think you got hurt at the East West.
But DJ in terms of like the innate feel for
the position, he has those things, and not as a
Day one or Day two guy, but when we're looking
at that position, we're trying to find someone that can
kind of come out of the lower ranks that could
(21:50):
be a much better pro than anyone envisions. To me,
he has it, and he has the pump returnability that
gives him a chance. So when you think about Marcus
Owns that was up in New England when Belichick and
those guys took him out of Houston.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
Yep, he kind of reminds me of that.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
I can get him a jersey each week until he's
ready to play, and that gives him a chance to
be a key contribute whenever he gets his chance.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Yeah, I love that. I just put a little note
on there. I'm gonna go back and watch a little
bit more of him. That's good stuff, all right, three,
I got three this or that's okay. These are discussions
that are taking place in rooms around the league. Good debates,
good discussions. You're eight to roll.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Terence Ferguson versus Harold Fanning tight end position.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Man, I like Fanning, and I don't want to be
in I don't want to be overly influenced by the times,
the comment whatever.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
But Ferguson's bigger, faster, you know, he is his favor.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
And I can't say this.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
But like the way that Fanning consistently gets open is like,
I don't know how this dude gets open time.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
All the time.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Is such a everybody jerky awkward?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
He's uh, he's James Hardon right, James Harden on the
football field.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Like creating separation. But he can do it all.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
And when you go back and you think about like
I think he was a safety of running back and
all of that, it comes out to me, I'll just
lean towards him.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
He is so productive. Thirty hundred yards at tight end.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
That's stupid production.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, it's a It's a fascinating one to me. That's
where I came down on it too. But there are
teams that like Ferguson better because of the you know,
the traits. But I just got Harold. Harold Fannon to
me was like you remember the remember Harold Minor with
baby Jordan. This is this is another Harold fan and
his baby Gates.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
So that's who.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
So so DJ I did not want to say Antonio
Gates because like to say that somebody.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
Is a Hall of Famer. But I am.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
When I'm when I'm when I'm watching him, I have
to give context. I saw Antonio Gates play in pre
season his worst.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
I was with you and in the press box and I.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Remember like looking at and I had to great him.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
I think I gave him a four nine, which was
like whatever, and I'm looking at him later scrip like,
how is he five yards open and he can't run anymore?
That's what I see when I see Fanning, Like how
was he wide open?
Speaker 4 (24:21):
Does it? It's just unbelievable how that happens. Yeah, yeah,
all right.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Jaden Higgins versus Jack Besh mm hmm.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Bess is so productive mm hmm. I mean just really productive,
really smooth.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Jade Higgins has got a lot of pop and a
lot a lot of buzz, and he's gonna go early.
Second girl, I think he's gonna go ahead. He's gonna
go ahead of Besh. But I'm just saying, like, you
get a chance to see at the Senior Bowl and
I'm sitting there going like, I don't know, man, best
best kind of dominated down there at that Senior Bowl
and the game winner.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Game winner. Yeah, that's there's something. These are just something
to that, Like it's so funny. I just want people
to understand because being agreed, we had not talked about
any of this. No, it's no, we're falling on the
same side of the argument.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, it's what I mean. I just think it's been
kind of universal. You know, Jayan Higgins is a good player.
I like him, but I just I just go back
down to the Senior Bowl. I can't get that out
of my head. All right, last one and this is
one that here we are. What is as we're recording this,
we're thirteen days away?
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Is that right? Thirteen days away from the draft?
Speaker 1 (25:27):
I think I don't even have my final answer on
this one, Buck, So you can't say we're on the
same page, because I'm not on a page.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
JT.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
T from Ohio.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Ohio State, Nick Gorton from A and m.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
Okay, I gonna say true to what I believe early.
I'm a S. Gordon fan.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
I was a Scordon fan, just watching him, seeing how
hard he played, seeing what he brings to the table.
To me, I'm just betting on him all day. I
think he figures out a way to have success. Combine
was a bit of a disappointment in terms of like
I thought he was gonna be much better. But man
on the tape, I I just fell in love with
what I saw from him early and often just making
(26:05):
plays and kind of always been around it.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
I talked about this the other day.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
He I mean he played it close to too eighty
this year, and then at the Pro day.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
He's two fifty seven.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
He's like a different human being, and come to find out,
they wanted to bulk him up at A and M.
So that's why he was playing in that particular body type.
And I didn't see like the pop or the juice
from him, and that was my concern with him. And
then everybody I talked to him said, you go back
and watch him at Purdue and he's a lighter guy
and that's where he's at his best. And I guess
his pro day was excellent, like the way he moved
(26:35):
around and stuff coaches raved about him. And then everybody
that's met with him, and really both these kids, I
should say this about both of them. The teams that
have met with him and talked with these kids, they
are studs, like great kids. These D line coaches want
to coach these two kids, and I think they are
going to come off the board very in a very
similar proximity when it's all said and done.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Yeah, you can't get enough good players. That's good intel
though about scoring. He was that Purdue, and that's really
important why scouts have to dig deeper in just that
final campaign. It is, Yeah, the final campaign matters, but really,
it's the entire body of work and understanding the whise
behind the successes of failures that you see doing that
final campaign.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, by the way, somebody, I got to get this. Uh,
I gotta check this. But somebody did tell me that
he does not like going by JTT. So I guess
that's it's JT to him.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
Alow.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
So, I if I was offensive, and I apologize, I
will not do that when we get to the draft.
But maybe maybe it was someone just busting my chops.
But I did hear from somebody that he does not
like being called that I would love to be called JTT.
It's a great it's a great name.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
I mean, it's a great name. But hopefully you're not
in here on path in the.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Draft when he comes through and you say, hey, JTT.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
That nothing was worth Yeah, we don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I can't share some of those stories about guys coming
through on path and telling them I know certain people
in their life that I find out they no longer
have relationships with. That was not not my finest hour there, buck,
you know what I'm talking about? All right, all right,
that's gonna do it for us today. Man, we are
almost to the draft. We appreciate you guys hanging with us.
We'll see you next time, right here on booth the
(28:06):
sticks
Speaker 2 (28:10):
H
And now move the sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
What's up, everybody? Welcome to move the sticks. DJ Buck
with you, Buck? What is going on man.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Man, Not too much, just trying to get it all done.
DJ low past the draft, got a little writing to do.
We got the pot. It's all good though. You know
what time of the year it is.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Oh yeah, I've got one week till I've got a
little over a week till I have to have my
one fifty done. So that's you know, my final project there.
So I've been working on that, getting stuff organ I
still watching some pop up guys, some workout guys, which
has been which has been a fun exercise, but it's exciting,
you know, looking at the teams more now this time too,
(00:41):
just kind of dialing in on teams, talking to people,
and some things start to crystallize a little bit.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Buck.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
As you get towards the end, you kind of think, like, man,
this is just a big mushroom cloud, have no idea
what's going to go on here? And then at the
end start hearing okay, man, they're off this guy, they're
on that guy. You know, stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah, is funny when we get to it, because I
feel like we're going this big old journey, right we
start where we think about players, then we kind of
go around and we look at tape and we get
this and Buddy started chiming in, and then you kind
of get back to where you started at the end
of the process. And we've talked about this a few
different times. I feel like that also happens in front office.
I think as you kind of sit down and you
(01:20):
get quiet, you get away from like the group think,
and you start like, who are the guys that we
really like? Like, who are the guys that we go
back with this check out notes? Who are the ones
that we absolutely like that we we can fall in
love with. I think that's when you do your best job.
Those are the guys that you really wanted the team.
You can't be swayed by. I would say, like some
of the outside opinions that are kind of buzzing and
(01:41):
circulating as we get closer to the draft.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
No doubt. Uh, that's one true. I've got a couple
things I want to hit on. Today's going to get
to some underrated players, some polarizing players. I've got three
this guy, that guy, conversations I want to have with
you on Day two, Like I think these are day
twoquestions that are fun ones.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I want to get to that first though. I want
to hit this.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
It's time for Hot or Not, brought to you by
WSABI Hot Cloud Storage Buck. I was thinking of the
themes of this draft, like let's just we'll get into
some individual stuff here, but I wanted to get the
thirty thousand foot view. And so these are the three
that I came up with. And I'll be curious to
see if you think there's other themes that kind of
summarize this draft or what kind of encapsulates this draft.
So the three themes I had, and I've hitting on
(02:27):
a couple of these throughout Starters not stars, right, like
this is a team. I was talking to a GM
the other day, a buddy of both of ours, and
he was talking about, we feel like we can upgrade
the bottom of our roster and fortify and strengthen the
middle of our roster and maybe not our top guys,
maybe these aren't going to be our key core stud guys,
but we're going to get better in the back end
(02:48):
and in the middle of our roster in this draft,
so starters not stars, traits versus production. You got to
figure out which side of the aisle you fall on
that topic, especially think about these pass rushers. And lastly, Buck,
I wrote down positional value versus quality of player, Like
these are the three.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Themes that I came up with for this draft.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Yeah, I'm with you on that.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I've heard people talk about the level of draft a
few different ways, and he talked about like really good
not great, Like you have a lot of really good players,
only a handful of great players, and so you need
to pick accordingly. So I believe you can get solid starters,
maybe even high end starters, but in terms of the
game change your difference maker transcendent talents not as many
(03:32):
as we've seen in some drafts. When it comes down
to positional value and player, I think evaluators have to
be really, really careful to not get so caught up
in positional value that you elevate a guy at a
position that is important over top of someone who is
a better player. And I think you just have to
keep that and I think that happens all the time.
(03:54):
And then the last thing is, so many of these
guys have bounced around transfers, you're trying to follow the
odyssey and those things. I think it's really important to
understand what did they learn along the way.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
We've talked about that quarterbacks.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
We kind of like our quarterbacks that have a little
scuff on them to have gone through some adversity and
come on the other side. Well, with these other players,
what have they learned all their journeys where they had
to mounce around and find the right spot for them.
I think all those things are important, But from a
whatever thirty thousand point perspective, yeah, I mean you have
(04:29):
to certainly understand, like where these guys are, what the
class is, and make sure that you make decisions based
on who this class really is, not what we want
them to be.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yeah, And you know, I also think I'll get your
take on it, but this feels like a stick and
pick draft. It doesn't feel like there's enough enticement there
for a lot of movement, you know, at least not
in the in the first round.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
I'm with you, I don't you know.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
It's funny because you know, on TV we get asked
to do trades and all this all the time. You like,
there has to be someone that you're trading for there
has to be a player or really a player or
need that you have that is a must have, got
to get this player to fill it. I don't feel
it strongly about that in this class. This is one
where and we talked about this. I think last year's draft,
(05:16):
the smart teams are looking ahead to not only twenty
twenty five, but twenty twenty six, twenty twenty seven and saying, hey,
I'll auction off some of these picks later in the
draft to get more at a future date. I think
more teams are going to get to the fourth round and.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Be like, yeah, we're good. We're good for today, we're good.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
We'll move on to next weekend because there is this
thing where it falls off. You just want to make
sure that you're bringing players that literally give you a
chance to upgrade your roster, not guys that just fill
holes in the fill up spots on the roster.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
No, it's a really good thought there. I also along
those lines, was talking to someone the other day and
he was talking about his team and saying, you know,
one of the key strengths for our team is that
we know and this is something you've brought up in
the past but he said, we know who our developmental
coaches are. Because I was saying I was like, hey,
you know, I'm doing all these pop up guys, and
(06:09):
you know these guys are potentially like seventh round PFA types,
you know, and people have different strategies on that. Do
you try and get a special teams player that can
come in help you right away? Do you get a
trade syat you know, small school kid. We just you know,
want raw develop and you'll take your time with them.
Do you take the quarterback flyers as you know teams
been wont to do. And he said, you know, and
this team's been successful, and he said one of the
(06:31):
keys our success is we know our developmental coaches. We
know the guys that we can bring in at certain
positions that our coaches can develop. So and he can
of you know, those are those are the positions we're
going to look at late in the draft and we're
just going to get the raw tools.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
He guys, Well, I mean one of the things we've
talked about the job as a gender manager is not
only to you know, scout players and to scout the scouts,
but it's also to scout the coaches the draft and
developed strategy never works if you do the developmental part
of and so when you say, hey, this is how
we're going to build our team, it's going to be
(07:05):
a homegrown team organization.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
This is what we're going to do.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Well, the people that touch the players need to be
really good at developing the players.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Otherwise you're spending your wheels.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
And that requires everyone to not only listen to what
the coaches say in meetings when they're reading their own reports,
but it's observing what they've done with the players they've
been given. Can they turn a C player into a
B player through the diligent work that they do on
the practice field? Can they help a practice squad player
get ready to play quickly at the end of the
year when we see this happen all the time, that
(07:39):
the bottom of the roster players are playing vital roles
on playoff runs just because of the attrition of the season.
It is really important that you know your coaches and
that your coaches are great teachers, great developers if you're
going to subscribe to that theory.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
So, yeah, I agree with you, buddy when he talks
about that the coaches.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Well, i'll tell you later. It's also your all right.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
That was this week's Hot or Not segment, brought to
you by with Sabbi Hot Cloud Storage, store more and
do more with your data. Try them for free at
withsabby dot com. Buck I touched on it at the
top Polarizing Players. I tweeted this out the other day,
and I thought we could kind of go through each
of these players individually, because not only the discussion on them,
but there's other players and other discussions that take place,
(08:22):
and for those that you know, want to peek behind
the curtain. At this point time, majority of the teams,
vast majority, are in their final meetings. They're getting everything
set up. This is the you know, kind of the
week that they're polishing it up and getting the board
set in place. And you have coaches who've had a
chance to go work these guys out, spend time with them,
get to know the person as well as the player.
(08:44):
And you've got the scouts in there and they're all
kind of scrimmaging this stuff out and so and talking
to a bunch of teams. These are the names that
I that I came up with were inside these individual buildings,
not saying just this team for that team, I'm saying
inside the building, They've got wide range of grades. It's
Ted McMillan, the receiver from Arizona. It's donovanz roku edge
rusher from Boston College. It's Revel the corner from ECU,
(09:08):
Shordan Birch the edge rusher, big jumbo EDG Dresher from Oregon.
And it's Jalen Milroe, quarterback from Alabama.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
M interesting list.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
So can you see I'm gonna I'm gonna give you
the player and I can tell you you know what
the discussion is. But I'm curious with your what you
think it would be. What do you think the issue
would be. Let's start with McMillan. Why would people love
him and some people not love him?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I think they would love the size, the athleticism, the
acrobatic plays, the flashes that you see on tape, that
Legia believed that he could be a dominant playmaker at
the next level. Why they would hate him or have
questions about him? The urgency and the consistent dominance isn't there?
You would like you kind of need to get him going.
(09:56):
You want to get the poker to him and be like, man,
you could be such a dominant player, if you would
bring the energy and effort every play. He doesn't do that.
He's more of what we call a cruiser. He's been
good enough. He's been better than everybody athletically, so he
just does enough to dominate without knowing how hard he
has to work to really be a dominant player at
(10:16):
the next level. Maybe it can be taught, or maybe
he is what he is and he's going to continue
to be that as a pro. That would be the
scary part. If I'm in the room, you nailed it.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
The term that was used with one of the teams
I talked to was cruise control. Like I just worry
about the guy who's always on cruise control, Like I
don't see him doll it up. I worry about him
getting off press. I worry about him fighting through what
he's got to fight through at the catch point, and
like he's an incredible, you know, acrobatic athlete. And you know,
it was funny people have looking at the same thing
(10:51):
and come away with different takeaways. And I laugh about
it a little bit because you even hear a positive, right.
I think we don't know if he talked about this before,
but hey, he's got a volleyball background that shows up
and how athletic.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Yeah yeah, and then.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
You know what else you hear he's got a volleyball back.
He's a volleyball player, Like he's not really is he
a dog? Yes, exactly. So that's just those are the
discussions taking place in the room, and you got to
figure out where you land on it. I probably come
down somewhere in the middle. I still have him as
a top twenty player in the draft, you know, DJ,
I think the expectation was going into the Yearbuck that
(11:23):
this was going to be a top five pick.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
It was that was the expectation.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
In fact, I started the process thinking that he was
going to be a top five, top ten player given that,
because I think when I close my eyes, I envisioned him.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Being Mike Evans.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
He's not, I know, but I envisioned him being someone
that's big and fast and physical, that dominates like that.
But that's not what he is, you know, but that's
what you would You would hope that someone who has
those tools, been given those tools off the assembly line
will become a player like Mike Evans has become a
dominant player.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yeah, I think some of that is if that was
your image going into the process. You came away from
it and being like ah man. But if you just
went with the blank slate and just watched him as
who he is and what he is, you'd be.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Like, it's a good player. He is a good player.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
He is, he is a good player. You wonder where
he tops out at? Look for me, everything is about
where he.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Goes and who is his position? Coach?
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Who's the one that can unlock a little more?
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, all right, let's get to the next one here,
Eziraku who I'm a fan of? And I can five
found teams that are in GMS and coaches that are sponsors,
and I found gms and coaches that are skeptical. And
I'll kick it to you. What do you think the
what do you think the difference is there?
Speaker 2 (12:43):
The people that love him, they love the motor, they
love a production and just the relentlessness that you see
him play with. The people that are anti the link
or the size, the packaging doesn't necessarily fit, and you
wonder what is he going to give you on those other.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Downs that are not passing down?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Like can't he stay on the field and hold his
own on the edges? When you need him to be
that every down player.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
So it's close. I mean, he's got he's got long arms.
He's one of those unique guys where he's six to
two but he has length. So he's got the long arms.
The concern really is just he doesn't have power. So
and again, like I think this is an interesting way
to frame these because you can say the same thing
and come away with a different conclusion. He wins a
lot of different ways. I like because he has a
(13:32):
lot of different ways to get to the quarterback, but
power and ruggedness is not one of them. And I
was talking to a coach. You brought up a point
and was like, hey, he needs fewer pitches, like you know,
like all these pitches are great, but you you know,
he needs too many. He has too many. He needs
to be able to win, like watch the NFL, which
power is a big part of how you win in
the NFL. You have to be able to collapse and
crush the pocket. So he's got to develop that. Can
(13:54):
he develop that? And my thing was I think that
there's you know, we talked about the tight entry a
while ago, and you have kind of like the Gronk tree,
the Kelsey tree of the different styles of guys. And
we've talked about craftsmen on here a lot about pass
rushers who are craftsmen.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
But if you look at it, those guys don't.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
It doesn't happen right away because they've been able to
use all these different tricks in college. Like Trey Hendrickson,
look at his sack totals his first few years in
the league. It took a couple of years before it hit,
and then it hit big. I think last year we
would be on the same page and say Leatu Latu
was the most gifted skilled pass rusher, but that didn't
click right away because all that stuff doesn't always translate.
(14:33):
You've got to figure out what works now. I think
all three of these guys are smart, and I think,
you know, obviously Hendrickson's blown it up. He's figured it
out and become a great player. I think Latu is
going to get there. He's not there yet. And I
think with Israraku, I think the same thing. I think
he's got some he can play with some leverage. He's
just he needs to work on power and just and
(14:54):
convert that power. But I like him a lot. I
you know, I think he's got a chance, there's teams
that like him. I think he's got a chance. It
could be a top twenty pick. I've looked at Tampa.
But that's the conversation on him.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
The thing about that when someone is more finesse than force,
you do wonder what happens when he meets that mountain
of a man that can sit down on him and
not let him get to his go to move. What
is the alternative If you can't just race around the edge,
if you can't out wiggle him, what do you have.
The guys who are balanced in terms of being able
(15:27):
to turn speed into power, they can win with force
or finess. They're the ones that consistently rings up ring
up twelve thirteen, fourteen sacks because they have a few
different ways to get there. Not saying that he's a
one trick pony, but he certainly has to have the
game tilted a certain way for him to have success
coming off the edgees.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, that's you know, that's going to be the challenge
that you got to figure that out. Chavon Ravel a
corner from ECU. I mean, look, he's coming off of injury,
so he hasn't been healthy through the year with the ACL,
so that's you know, that's a big part of that discussion.
I also think there's just some teams that don't like
the taller, legier corner, So a lot of that's going
(16:07):
to be usage, I think with his debate.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yeah, scheme pit is everything for him, but also DJ
here's the other i'lle be surprised that people haven't talked about,
like his history. If you really look at his history,
you're coming out of high school, going to a Juco,
going to Louisburg, making his way to East Carolina playing
that one year, didn't getting hurt this year. There's not
an extensive resume that you can really like lean on.
(16:31):
When we talk about him being a first round pick
or top of the second round pick, it is definitely
more projection than anything.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
And part of that projection is how are we going
to use him? How does he fit in the scheme
that we run?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
And I would expect he would be on so many
different places, on different boards.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Tended on what scheme they play.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
To me, he's the old school Seattle type corner, the
old school Sherman Brandon Brown or that gout super long.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
We'll see though, We'll see where he fits yep. I
think he goes on day two. I think he'll go
in the second round next one. Jordan Birch from Oregon.
You know he's six four one two sixty nine four
sixty seven. This discussion, Buck is kind of a tweener
those that see the glass half full and those that
see it half empty. He's kind of a finesse, big
(17:22):
guy on the edge. He can really go. I mean
he can really really run. Some teams feel like his
best fit is gonna be what he can do as
a subrusher inside. But similar to Ziaku, I think that
discussion is just kind of like is he rugged? You know,
is he rugged enough?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I mean that's the thing, because that's a big part
of the game, Like you gotta have guys in trenches
that can can embrace a rock and socker robot style.
That would be the big question I would have after
looking at him on tape, like can he get down
and dirty? Can he make it physical enough if we
have to have that kind of game plan, that would
be a major question concern.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
And then finally Jalen Milroe. Again we've talked about it.
We talked aout him a lot on here, so we
don't even go along here. But it's pretty simple. I mean,
you you you buy into the athletic package and you're
banking on just time and development that there's more there.
You know, he's smart, he's a good worker, he's an
incredible athlete. The main sticking point with a lot of
(18:17):
teams has been vision decision making. You know, just gosh,
does he see it? Does he see it?
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Really? Well?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
That's kind of the that's the topic that comes up
on the teams that are that aren't buying it.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
It's such a hard thing because I wish I could
kind of read ahead, get to the last page of
the book to figure out where he goes, and then
I can give you a thumbs up or down on
whether I believe he'll make it. A lot of it
with Jalen Milroe is not only the athleticism and how
you want to use it, but do you buy into
the kid. A lot of the reason why Jalen Hurts
worked is because you could buy into the kid that
(18:49):
he was going to figure it out based on his work,
ethic and his leadership skills in those things. With Jalen Murroe,
can people get close enough to him to say, hey,
I'm going to bet on the kid. I'm on the
bet that he is going to put everything into it
and figure it out along the way how he needs
to play to be able to help this offense move
the ball consistently and to win games as he's continued
(19:12):
to add tools to the tool belt.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yeah, no, I think he's going in the second round, man,
I do. We'll see.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I'm pretty confident that he was going to it. Threw
me off that when he got the invitation to whatever.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Well, you never know, yeah, you never know. No, Yeah,
but no, I think I think you'll end up going
early in the second round. So we'll see what happens there.
Let's take a quick break, come back. I want to
hit a couple underrated players, and then I've got three
this or that questions for you.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
We'll get to it right after this.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
All right, buck, I was just going through it, and
to me, it was I had a connection with three
guys who I thought were kind of I just really
like him as players, and I talked to teams there
I found some love, some like I should say, maybe
not love, but I just think these guys are all
three good football players. I think all three of them
belong on Day two and ironically, they all play in
(20:05):
the secondary for the cal Bears. Noel Williams the corner
who had seven picks at three against Auburn. He played
well at a pick six against cam Ord. He's feisty,
he's quick, he just has excellent ball skills. He's you know,
he's big. He's over six foot right around two hundred pounds,
ran four or five flat. Marcus Harris another corner from there,
is a little a little more juice, a little more twitch,
(20:28):
real fluid, great athlete, recovery speed. And then Craig Woodson
is one of my one of my favorite safeties. He's leader,
he's smart, he can play all over the place, deep, half,
smooth mover ran four four five, He's a firm tackler,
just overall real smart, good player. I thought all three
of those cal Bears are good players, and I thought
maybe a little undervalued. Is there anybody that that you
(20:49):
look at in this draft as you kind of go
through the process, and you're like, you know what, I'll
bet on that one.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
No, I like, I like those guys that you mentioned.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
It is funny because I think Williams was at the
East West frying game and we're talking because I'm trying
to figure out who his agent is. I think his
agent is a buddy of mine because they talked to
me about him.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
I remember having to look at him.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
And there were a couple other guys that were at
that game that I feel strong about that we're in
the secondary. Kobe Bryant from Kansas, super competitive. If you
can see him in one on one drills or whatever,
man dude goes NonStop, plays hard, just all out and
the frame scares you. But I love the toughness, the
intensity that it brings to the field. And then this
is a bit of a homer, but he also was
(21:29):
at the game. Elijah Hussey niver back from North Carolina,
pretty knee. I think you got hurt at the East West.
But DJ in terms of like the innate feel for
the position, he has those things, and not as a
Day one or Day two guy, but when we're looking
at that position, we're trying to find someone that can
kind of come out of the lower ranks that could
(21:50):
be a much better pro than anyone envisions. To me,
he has it, and he has the pump returnability that
gives him a chance. So when you think about Marcus
Owns that was up in New England when Belichick and
those guys took him out of Houston.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
Yep, he kind of reminds me of that.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
I can get him a jersey each week until he's
ready to play, and that gives him a chance to
be a key contribute whenever he gets his chance.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Yeah, I love that. I just put a little note
on there. I'm gonna go back and watch a little
bit more of him. That's good stuff, all right, three,
I got three this or that's okay. These are discussions
that are taking place in rooms around the league. Good debates,
good discussions. You're eight to roll.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Terence Ferguson versus Harold Fanning tight end position.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Man, I like Fanning, and I don't want to be
in I don't want to be overly influenced by the times,
the comment whatever.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
But Ferguson's bigger, faster, you know, he is his favor.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
And I can't say this.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
But like the way that Fanning consistently gets open is like,
I don't know how this dude gets open time.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
All the time.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Is such a everybody jerky awkward?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
He's uh, he's James Hardon right, James Harden on the
football field.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Like creating separation. But he can do it all.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
And when you go back and you think about like
I think he was a safety of running back and
all of that, it comes out to me, I'll just
lean towards him.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
He is so productive. Thirty hundred yards at tight end.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
That's stupid production.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, it's a It's a fascinating one to me. That's
where I came down on it too. But there are
teams that like Ferguson better because of the you know,
the traits. But I just got Harold. Harold Fannon to
me was like you remember the remember Harold Minor with
baby Jordan. This is this is another Harold fan and
his baby Gates.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
So that's who.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
So so DJ I did not want to say Antonio
Gates because like to say that somebody.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
Is a Hall of Famer. But I am.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
When I'm when I'm when I'm watching him, I have
to give context. I saw Antonio Gates play in pre
season his worst.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
I was with you and in the press box and I.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Remember like looking at and I had to great him.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
I think I gave him a four nine, which was
like whatever, and I'm looking at him later scrip like,
how is he five yards open and he can't run anymore?
That's what I see when I see Fanning, Like how
was he wide open?
Speaker 4 (24:21):
Does it? It's just unbelievable how that happens. Yeah, yeah,
all right.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Jaden Higgins versus Jack Besh mm hmm.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Bess is so productive mm hmm. I mean just really productive,
really smooth.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Jade Higgins has got a lot of pop and a
lot a lot of buzz, and he's gonna go early.
Second girl, I think he's gonna go ahead. He's gonna
go ahead of Besh. But I'm just saying, like, you
get a chance to see at the Senior Bowl and
I'm sitting there going like, I don't know, man, best
best kind of dominated down there at that Senior Bowl
and the game winner.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Game winner. Yeah, that's there's something. These are just something
to that, Like it's so funny. I just want people
to understand because being agreed, we had not talked about
any of this. No, it's no, we're falling on the
same side of the argument.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, it's what I mean. I just think it's been
kind of universal. You know, Jayan Higgins is a good player.
I like him, but I just I just go back
down to the Senior Bowl. I can't get that out
of my head. All right, last one and this is
one that here we are. What is as we're recording this,
we're thirteen days away?
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Is that right? Thirteen days away from the draft?
Speaker 1 (25:27):
I think I don't even have my final answer on
this one, Buck, So you can't say we're on the
same page, because I'm not on a page.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
JT.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
T from Ohio.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Ohio State, Nick Gorton from A and m.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
Okay, I gonna say true to what I believe early.
I'm a S. Gordon fan.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
I was a Scordon fan, just watching him, seeing how
hard he played, seeing what he brings to the table.
To me, I'm just betting on him all day. I
think he figures out a way to have success. Combine
was a bit of a disappointment in terms of like
I thought he was gonna be much better. But man
on the tape, I I just fell in love with
what I saw from him early and often just making
(26:05):
plays and kind of always been around it.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
I talked about this the other day.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
He I mean he played it close to too eighty
this year, and then at the Pro day.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
He's two fifty seven.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
He's like a different human being, and come to find out,
they wanted to bulk him up at A and M.
So that's why he was playing in that particular body type.
And I didn't see like the pop or the juice
from him, and that was my concern with him. And
then everybody I talked to him said, you go back
and watch him at Purdue and he's a lighter guy
and that's where he's at his best. And I guess
his pro day was excellent, like the way he moved
(26:35):
around and stuff coaches raved about him. And then everybody
that's met with him, and really both these kids, I
should say this about both of them. The teams that
have met with him and talked with these kids, they
are studs, like great kids. These D line coaches want
to coach these two kids, and I think they are
going to come off the board very in a very
similar proximity when it's all said and done.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Yeah, you can't get enough good players. That's good intel
though about scoring. He was that Purdue, and that's really
important why scouts have to dig deeper in just that
final campaign. It is, Yeah, the final campaign matters, but really,
it's the entire body of work and understanding the whise
behind the successes of failures that you see doing that
final campaign.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, by the way, somebody, I got to get this. Uh,
I gotta check this. But somebody did tell me that
he does not like going by JTT. So I guess
that's it's JT to him.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
Alow.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
So, I if I was offensive, and I apologize, I
will not do that when we get to the draft.
But maybe maybe it was someone just busting my chops.
But I did hear from somebody that he does not
like being called that I would love to be called JTT.
It's a great it's a great name.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
I mean, it's a great name. But hopefully you're not
in here on path in the.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Draft when he comes through and you say, hey, JTT.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
That nothing was worth Yeah, we don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I can't share some of those stories about guys coming
through on path and telling them I know certain people
in their life that I find out they no longer
have relationships with. That was not not my finest hour there, buck,
you know what I'm talking about? All right, all right,
that's gonna do it for us today. Man, we are
almost to the draft. We appreciate you guys hanging with us.
We'll see you next time, right here on booth the
(28:06):
sticks
Speaker 2 (28:10):
H
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Daniel Jeremiah
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