Bill Cowher: Why Steelers football is different, the famous angry face, leading with compassion

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You know why I liked you so much as a
Pittsburgh head coach because you look like you're from Pittsburgh.
I mean, you got the chin, you got the look.
You're just kind of angry on times on the sideline.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
You know, I used to you still come up to
me old ladies in a grocery store like we love
it when you get mad. And that touched me on
the cheek a little bit of b I think, thank you, man.
I think I guess that's a good thing. My wife says,
you know they got you got it. You gotta quick
getting mad and cussing on the sidelin.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
No, it was so I'd be like, I'm just brilliant.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
I love probably coming to me right now, but man,
after the after the next playing, I'm gonna I know
where you're at. You're not gonna talk.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
What's up?

Speaker 4 (00:45):
Everybody on Peanut to him it And this is the
NFL Players second X podcasting with him as always as
my trusty co host, Roman Harm.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
He ready to go, y'all, he ProMED, and legit, he ready.
I am, I ready ready, I'll be ready. I am
ready ready. I was freezing early. Now I'm hot because
I got the next guest and in all the appropriate ways.
I've been watching this guy for like my whole life
and really excited to hear everything that he has. I
know he has so many stories, and I'm just hoping
to get about twenty of them.

Speaker 4 (01:13):
So I think he has a very unique He has
a very unique resume. I've never seen a resume quite
like his before. He has three successful acts in football.
One as a linebacker and a special team's guru yep
for the Browns and the Eagles. Two he's a Super

(01:33):
Bowl winning coach. He's a Hall of Fame head coach
with the Steelers. Three he is a member of the
CBS NFL Today Show. Ladies and gentlemen, please walk up
to the pod. Bill ocame. I just, oh yeah, keep

(01:55):
it going, keep it going, keep it going, going, keep
it going.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
Man. Defensive guy right here.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
It's defensive guy. And as you probably looked it up,
but I did coach the secondary very early in my career.
I might add you coaching guys that I actually played with,
Hanford Dixon, Chris Rowkins and going back into that room
and they're like, man, you're gonna tell us what to do.
You were a special teams linebacker, and now you're going

(02:21):
to talk to us about bump and run. You're talk
to us about playing off covers and go. Yes, I am.
I said, if you ask me the question, now have
the answer. I'm going to get the answer and then
come back to you. I'm not going to bullsh you.
So it was probably the best time I enjoyed was
coaching the secondary, because I think it is and safety
corner Alabama, Louisiana Lafayette, like Taylor coached him too. It's

(02:45):
a lonely position out there. A short memory is a necessity, yes,
And the only time you really get notice is when
you get beat or you make a great player interception, right,
So I said, kind of like offensive line. And sometimes
if you don't go notice, you probably had a damn
good game. So and so, but I really did. I
thought the secondary the technique part of it, just the
technical part of the game, the footwork, the hand placement,

(03:08):
to being able to read alignments, reading the little subtleties
of a receiver and trying to find a little niche
that can give you a little hint of something that's
going to take place, and trusting what you see your
eyes and trusting your eyes, and and and and not.
Don't get caught looking at things you shouldn't look.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
At so fast.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
So first of all, coach, you already sold me because
you know, to go back in a room versus some
old teammates, the first thing you got to have is
confidence to be able to step in that room and leave,
especially guys that you know that they know what they're doing.
And that was like one of the biggest things that
you have to have as a defensive boat.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
Confidence.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
How do you get a guy that do you ever
see a guy that's kind of lose that confidence and
how do you get them to.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
Get it back?

Speaker 2 (03:52):
I think the biggest thing is is I'd rather you
challenge and lose than to be play the game safe.
We all can play the game set and at some
point in the game, Yeah, that's appropriate when you have
a lead, when you don't want to give up a
big play, when you understand the situation. But on a whole,
you have to be confident. You have to have a
short memory, you have to trust what you see, and

(04:12):
you've got to be able to be willing to take
some chances and have a little bit of a swagger
about you. Now you know, so if you don't have
that and you're just when you're worrying about getting beat,
then that's not the position for you. So it's almost
like you want to encourage it, but there's a time
and a place, and also be situationally aware of when
there is time to take a chance, right. But also
so I think that part of it and coaching guys

(04:34):
you had played with it, it was challenging, but I
think the more they respected the fact that I did
a lot of research, spent a lot of time. A
guy named Larry Weaver, I went and spent like three
or four days with him, and he had coached secondary
for all these years. So just talking about bumping round,
talking about off coverage, you know, and you're backpeddaling when
he's ten, you should be seventeen. And if you're eighteen
or nineteen, you're getting either too fast and if fourteen

(04:55):
or fifteen, it's going to be up on you too fast.
So just keeping that kind of element and trying to
stop the thing, and talking about placement of bumping, running
where your hands should be your feet, and also letting
people be themselves, no doubt, I mean, I think that's
the biggest thing. I always thought the pro game as
opposed to the college games is you've got professionals and
guys that are really good at what they do. They
don't have to listen to everything you're doing. It's got

(05:17):
to get the job done, and it may not be
the way you would diagram it. I mean, Rod Woodson
was catching punts over his head. I'm gonna tell rober Woodson,
now you catch the ball right here. He goes, I
don't catch you like that. And I go, sure you don't,
and I but don't you guys the guys behind you,
you don't catch you like it. Don't try doing his way.
But that's Rod. That's that's Rod Woodson. So you know,

(05:38):
I just think it's it's it's letting the individuals be
themselves and having a little bit of a sense of
who they are in the field.

Speaker 4 (05:45):
That's the one thing we both had the luxury of
playing or the honor of playing from Coach Rivera, and
Coach Rivera would always say I love you for who
you are to me right and he treated everyone fair
but not equally right. But he would always just like
let people be themselves. He will let the Josh Normans
be himself. The cam Newton's me with my personality, you

(06:06):
with your boys. Like, that's one thing I really enjoyed,
and not a lot of coaches have that quality to.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
Do that to let certain players.

Speaker 4 (06:15):
Some coaches are like, no, you're going to do this,
and you're going to do it this way, and we're
going to be a team, and we're like a conveyor
belt and we just we operate the same way.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
Well, I look at it, and I think there's a
lot to be said for playing in the National Football
League too.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
I think when you've played the game and you understand
all the things in that locker room that take place
and all the things the responsibility that these players have,
that THEA needs to also be a place where you
can get away and be yourself because you're expected when
you walk on that locker room to be this iconic
person that everyone's looked up to, and you're the leader.
You're going to be a role model, whether you like

(06:49):
it or not, and sometimes that's challenging. It's challenging because
you know you still have a career that you're trying
to like create money with and trying to create a
legend of and so giving you a space where you
can kind of feel your growth and feel your own
and I think if you played the game. I think
a lot of great coaches have played the game, and
I didn't played at the highest of level. Ron did.

(07:09):
Ron Rivera did. He played. He was a very good
player for the Bears for all those years, but being
a special teams player, it was kind of like the
little idiosyncrasies I I I had to look at splits,
I had to look at formations. I understand, like what
the tendencies are. I know, when you're getting this information,
you're not going to throw it. You're probably running ball
eighty percent of the time. Look at the knuckles of
the line and when they get in.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
The sands, Yeah, now you're going into it. Now, why
to the knuckles till everybody now.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
So there's when what knuckles are white? A lot of
leaning forward that's not a pass sentence run the football. Also,
the guys back on his heel and his hands barely
on the ground. I mean, like just start thinking, look around,
why in your vision is it's not coming right at you.
A lot of things happened in front of you. So
it's just the little things of the game that to

(07:55):
me is like those are the things if you can
help a player just become a better version of who
they are.

Speaker 4 (08:00):
I always give this guy because he didn't play special teams.
He thinks he's too good to play special.

Speaker 3 (08:08):
He was that good.

Speaker 4 (08:09):
He thinks he's too good to play special teams, almost
special teams. I played thirteen years and I played all
thirteen years old special teams, and I took my defensive starts.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
You were you were special teams. That's how you.

Speaker 4 (08:23):
I mean, I saw some plays you and Philly and
you like you. You have some you had some hits
like you. You you were a baller and I appreciate that.
And you were special teams coach.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
And I was a special teams coach, and all my
guys played special teams. You come in the first couple
of years with me, You're gonna be on the kickoff coverage.
You're gonna so, I mean, was one of the best
coverage guys I had till became a starter. Hines Ward's
was it was it was, it was a flyer.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
He was Okay.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
These two guys are pretty good receivers they turned out
to be with also are pretty good covering kicks. A
big at defensive tackle have done that hash yes, So
I said, yes, said you know most of those guys
and you know what, and Reben, you would have been
the perfect guy. Number One. You can just fall in
behind as a safety. You could feel, you could see
when things broke me up.

Speaker 3 (09:11):
You had sense for that.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
You were a very good tackler. So you would have
been on that kickoff coverage team. And I always said,
you know what you know, and you just want to
make sure that everything goes set because you know what,
the further back that they start easier gives you guys
a little bit of leeway of you know, maybe let
them get a first don or two.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
You're selling me on this. And Number I did play
safety on kickoffka, I was like, okay.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
It was like it also saved me like from running
off the sidelines, right, so it's like out there, you're
party out here.

Speaker 3 (09:40):
Let's just light it up. That's that way.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
And I was like away from the kick safety, So
I wasn't even in the action half the time. And
so that I did do that. And I'm trying to
fit myself because I won't coach color.

Speaker 3 (09:51):
You know what it is when you get you want
me a Pro Bowl? And were supposed to seem like, yeah, you.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Life out throw like I'm telling you I and you
know I they put me out there like kickoff return
my rookie year coach, and after about two sets, I
was like, bro, they trying to get somebody hurt.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
Out because you know, if you don't know.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
And the other thing is it is like if you
do not play special teams early in yourll in your career,
it's hard to all of a sudden get the year
eight or nine.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, and asked them to do it.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
Yeah, it's just it's just a different way of life,
you know it is.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
And then the game has evolved to such a point.
But I think back in the time, it was like,
you know, the kicking game was one third of the game,
and I put such a great emphasis on that because
I thought field position was one of the hidden intangibles.
It is of every game, whether it was punt covers
or whether it was punt return or kickoff covers or
kickoff return. I just thought that that field position was
really had a lot to do with the game, and

(10:49):
no one really looked at that because that's kind of
hitting yardage.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Coach, tell me this, I want to go back a second,
because you were talking about how Rob Woodson caught the
ball over his head and this one did that. I
want to know and your coaching career, who's the ultimate
rules guy versus guideline guy. We're like, you got rules
because you're young and I don't trust you yet. Now
this one he got some guidelines. You know it just

(11:12):
catch the ball, ride right, all right? Who is the
ultimate rule guy versus guidelines?

Speaker 2 (11:17):
So I would say rules guy. I had a couple
of inside linebackers that you know, they thought they saw
something and I get this filmed back, I get the pictures.
I go, that's it wasn't the tackle on the block
and it was a guard that reached you. So just
do your job. You're like, well, no, I'm just going
to go inside and go you you went inside the guard.

(11:38):
No that was a tackle. I know it wasn't. So
so I would be on him pretty hard. A guy
like Troy Palomalu. You know, I remember sitting there and
telling Chris Hope at some point once about the third year,
I said, we're gonna left. Troy is a very instinctive guy,
and nine times out of ten, even if he's got

(11:59):
the flat, if he goes, we're going to give up
the flat, okay, or so I said, we're gonna let
him do those like do what he needs to do
and just let him play. I says, because I don't
want to harness this guy. He's he's too good of
a player. And we were big on disguise and a
great story, and you love this story. He's going against
Carson Palmer and we're playing Carson Palmer in the Bengals.
And so Carson Palmer and Troy were roommates on college

(12:22):
at USC and so Troy comes up. We had called
cover two, and all of a sudden, Troy's up there,
up there, and I just started young cloud cloud cloud,
and like this this this the ball snapped. I go, Dick,
I go, Dick, I go. Troy's doing his own guy.
He didn't even play the defense and he throws in
the flat. Troy makes the flip, makes the play, and

(12:44):
I go, Troy, it was covered too. He goes, I know,
I know, but I knew it was Carson. He founds
in the box. He would think it was going to
be a three deep because it's eight in the box.
So I told the Shay, you take half the field
I'm going to take the flat from here in the box.
So we had covered two covered and go told that's
a great idea. I don't even think about that one.
I go, if you want to do this, and next
time you tell us you're going to do it, it's like,

(13:07):
we gotta put that one in. Remember that one, I said,
so high seas you know, so to Shade went to
half the field. He took the flat and then and
made the play. So he was playing the head games
with Carson, and he would love he would disguise. He
loved disguising and we really promoted that, but he would
take it sometimes to another level like like I like
like I just think he would just like if he

(13:27):
felt something, he was just going to go ahead and
just take that a gap like you know, but that.

Speaker 3 (13:31):
Way, like when he jumped over the center tackled the court.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
You know, he made he probably had he probably had
a hook area like somewhere. He just like like like
we just end up playing like a three under three deep.
It was supposed to be four hunder three deep, but
but it became three under three deep. So we used
to play fire zone. So a lot of the things
we did with him it kind of blended in, but
I didn't want to. I didn't want to harness him.
And if it got too much, it's like, come on,

(13:56):
you gotta like Troy, like, okay, really this look at
the see the game. We're good like this. Be situationally aware,
right right, And that was the most important thing I saw.
You got to be you, but just be aware of
where we are in a game, what we need to
have done, and don't try don't be selfish, and don't
try to make a play when you don't need to

(14:17):
make it play.

Speaker 4 (14:18):
It takes a special coach to see that, though, like
to let your like, all right, look you can do that,
because I think I think was that type of guy too,
where could just like no, I'm seeing it. I'm going, hey,
it's covered, I see it.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
I know.

Speaker 4 (14:30):
It's like it takes a special coach to to to
let a guy that special. And we're talking about two
Hall of Famous too, so like I get it, I
see it.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
It's it's it's just I want to I also want
to know, like, at what point do you know Troy
has this superpower? Because these are superpowers that not everybody player.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, I mean I think it's you knew he had
it because you could just see it, like you know,
during the week, his hair is up and he has
it's underneath the calmet and he's very very much in control.
And then all of a sudden second, he's like Superman
on Sundays. He cuts the hair down, and all of
a sudden he's just like a wild man. So you know,
and I you know again, another great story we had

(15:11):
was we had a fire zone called one time going
against Philip Rivers and they threw a flare and tight
end over the middle and threw a flare to Old
Danny and he went like seventy yards for the touchdown.
I'm like, oh man, we screwed up that fire zone
because I think Troy thought we were gonna walk with
the tight end, but we're supposed to banjo that thing
like between in and out and and so I I

(15:32):
went over to Chris Hope and I says, Chris. He goes.
He goes, you can't talk to Troy right now. I go,
he you mean, he goes, he's praying. I go, Okay,
I go, I go. He goes, it's going to be
a wild coach. They just scored a touchdown. I go
oh god, I said, how how long is it gonna be?
He goes, I'll come and get you when it's over.
I go, I know, I just he goes. I just
I just want I just wanted to be able to
talk to him aout when he's going to just take place.

(15:52):
When he just happened again, he goes, I will come
and get you. I go, man, So I started walking away,
and Troy will tell the story that he says, he says, Chris,
did he go yet? Did he go? He goes. I
just want to get yelled at, so I said, I
find it after the fact. You know, you use to
use that that period of time, Like I said, I
wasn't gonna yell as us trying to figure out because

(16:13):
if you screw it up, then we got we got.
We've got too many things going on because you you
never make mistakes. I just want to make sure that
we need to clean this up now so it doesn't again.
But you know, it's like it's that's you probably miss that.
I probably missed those conversations and that kind of relationship
which is almost like a fatherly like like I want

(16:34):
you to be really good. But if it gets to
the point where you cross the line of being selfish.
I got to pull you back because you know, that's
just not who we are. And what is that line.
It's like, I just say, it's being disrespectful to the game,
being disrespectful to the opponent, or being disrespectful to a teammate.
I says. If you start doing those things, I said,

(16:55):
that's selfish. I said, and that may be a penalty,
that may be a that may have to get in
the last push. You know, I said, you get a number,
You can get a number. You know, you have your opportunities,
but you don't don't don't cost a team something. And
you know you don't have to jump something or do
something when you really don't have to, and be situationally
situationally aware and so and everybody wants to they want

(17:18):
their stats, particularly when the stats became and I would
shut it down in the third or fourth quarter and
start running the football, use the clock, stay in a
huddle long. You know, Flexigo, Burds and Hines are mad
at me because we're not throwing the ball. We could
be making all kind of yardage. I says, I know,
but we're not. We don't need to. Yeah, but we
got stats we have to get to. I go, you
know what you had need? I need to have you

(17:38):
healthy in the postseason. I'm actually shortening this game and
probably taking ten plays off this game. If I continue
to do that and wins, you're going to be that
much more healthier for a postseason. And those are also
ten games with somebody could take a shot at you.
I could lose you for the season on a meaningless
slam pass that you can get right now, and you're
gonna get tackled low. And why why would I subject

(18:00):
to that? So I said, I'm going to be Yeah,
it's boring football. They everyone to tell you. I'm like,
I'm too conservative. I shut things down. But our record
has been pretty good. And that's how I said. My
record with a lead of thirteen points or more or
eleven points or more in any particular game is one
hundred and sixty one and one. Because I used the

(18:21):
clock I use from an offensive standpoint, we come, we
will snap with under five seconds. It may be run screen,
run or run run screen, so the ball is not
going to touch the ground. Yeah yeah, well if we
can get one of those first downs in there, Man,
I just took one possession away from them, and now
they got to get two scores. Now I can dictate

(18:43):
to them how they have to play their game.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
Coach, I want to talk to you about one thing
when you were playing that I didn't know because you
maybe you tell a good story already, So tell me
this story about you tackling Jeff Fisher and he ended
up breaking his leg. I didn't even know Jeff Fisher played.
How didn't you know that? But he was on a
great defense at USC too. Yeah, he played dB with
Rod Dennis Smith and Joey brown Er.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Did you know that? No?

Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah, me neither.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, you know he was? He was? He was. He
was a pom returner. Yeah, for the Chicago Bears. Cool,
yeah he was. Oh he was? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (19:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
I mean that's where because he ended up going right
into coaching with Buddy because he was pom returning. And
it was like nineteen eighty three, think it was a three, right, man.
So I was covering the kick and I hit him
and I did and I heard him scream and everyone
was on top of me, and I'm thinking, oh, man,
we got to get off this. This is not good.

(19:38):
And I got up and the man go hey man,
oh I'm so sorry, Like, man, it goes ah. So
so he he gets into coaching. That was his last
last snap. The next year and I got into coaching,
and so like next thing, you know, we've become like
both head coaches, and we've got to know each other
very very well. We played against each other so and

(19:59):
Jeff it was like basically a special team defensive back.
I was a special team linebacker. But you know that
when your special team er, it makes you a good
head coach.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
Yeah, I guess it does. I mean, you guys are
all doing well, Coach Harball too.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah, yeah, a.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
Lot of you guys doing well. We're gonna take a
short break and we'll be right back.

Speaker 4 (20:18):
I want to talk about the just you being the
head coach at such a young age. I think you
got it at thirty four when the Steelers made you
the head coach, and at that time that that had
never been done, kind of like what they're doing now
with a lot of coaches thirty thirty four, thirty two.

Speaker 3 (20:33):
But you were, like I feel like you were.

Speaker 4 (20:34):
You were like the first one to get the head
coaching job at thirty four and to get it so young,
and your predecessor Chuck Noll. He had been there over
twenty years, won four Super Bowls. Like, talk to me
about getting that job and the expectations of winning.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, I mean, so I grew up in Pittsburgh too, right,
So I grew up like four miles from the three
of the stadium is now zach Ers or it was
heinz Field, but it's really still the same spot. So yeah,
I am interviewed for the job. I'd interviewed the year
before for the Cleveland Browns job. At the age of
thirty three, I was a coordinator at the Kansas City
Chiefs with Marty and we'd had a pretty good team

(21:14):
and pretty good defense, and so it came down to
me and Bill Belichick, and so they gave it to Bill,
and I almost got their job with the Giants. I
was offered a job to go with Bill Belichick and
the Giants in nineteen eighty nine, when Marty got fired.
I was a defensive back coach, so Parcels and I
interviewed with Bill. Parcells called me up and asked, you

(21:35):
offer me a job to be defensive back coach. But
I said, you know, I'm gonna go with Marty to
Kansas City he gave me a first chance, and so
Bill ended up coaching secondary and I ended up going
to linebackers. So we actually met in eighty nine and
for eighty nine and ninety we used to share and
talk a lot about common opponents. Ninety one, he becomes
a Cleveland Browns coach. Ninety two I've become the Pittsburgh
Steewers coach. We went from friends of avisaries very quickly,

(21:58):
and I was I was young in my hometown coming
through that. But you know, the Steelers were kind of
in a little bit of a transition. They had not
been into the playoffs like one time in the previous
seven years, so there was a lot of you know,
there was a lot of history and tradition, but it
was not there now, kind of like where they are
now right a bit. And uh So just came in

(22:20):
and I had a whole new staff. The only person
I kept was Dick Hoke Off that old staff just
tried to figure out the building, you know what the
dynamics of the building were, Like who do I talk to?
And like how do you work in the GM And yeah,
do you go right to the owner and not go
to the owner? And so I you know it. The

(22:43):
first year that we had that first training camp, we
walked up there and there was a paper strike. I'll
never forget this in Pittsburgh that time, that first training camp,
it was a lot of disgruntled players who did not
want to be there. Thomas Ever never even showed up.
Harry Nickerson didn't want to be there because there was
a lot of contract disputes and it was right now
where there was no free agency. It was kind of

(23:06):
like we had the we could protect forty eight players,
and it was like during that period of time there
was no free agency. So it was a very i
would say period of time where I was standing up
there and we had a challenge with our staff. And
it's remember we first defensive meeting. Dom Capers was my
defensive coordinator. Dick Labo was coaching the secondary. I hired

(23:29):
Marvin Lewis, who I played high school football with the
coaching linebackers because I said me, and you need a
coach the linebackers because a lot two of these guys
are older than you and I okay, so so I
got you and I kept Steve Ferness for the defensive line.
But it was a linebacking group. We had. We had
like Greg Lloyd and you know, David Little. These two
guys were like, like, you know, Brian Hinkel. Hinkel was

(23:50):
older than me, David Little was older than me. So
we came in and we put in a whole new
system under Rod Russ. The previous year they led the
league in defense, so they were not already didn't They
didn't want to. He didn't want to change, like why
are we changing? The offense was just embracing everything because
they hated the coordinator before and I brought him Ron
Earhart from the Giants, and we're gonna run the football.

(24:10):
We had a young kid, I think I thought Barry
Foster was perfect. We had a big, really good offensive.
We had Dermonty Dawson, we had you know, Carlton Hassel Rigg,
John Jackson. I mean it was my first pick was
Leon Searsly, and so it was like we had we
had a good offensive line. Neil' donald was our quarterback.

(24:31):
But so we're gonna run the ball and play good defense.
And but that camp, there was a lot of fights.
I remember breaking it up and kind of letting it
go and just trying to earn the trust of these
guys and because everything I was doing, they were kind
of looking at me like like what are you doing?
Like like like what do you think you're doing? Like
you're walking in here thinking you're changing everything. Do you
know where the Pittsburgh Steels. I'm gonna listen, I respect

(24:52):
your Pittsburgh Steelers, but we're gonna do some things differently
here with the recognition and make and trying to bring
back the history and that you're dition what we had before.
So we had like our first spring. I remember bringing
back Joe Green and Jack Lambert and Franco and mel
and trying to bring them in to talk about what
it means to be a Pittsburgh Steeler in the city

(25:14):
of Pittsburgh. And I brought those guys back into the
building because I just wanted to just talk about these guys.
They were they they set the standard. Man. It was
that was that was a turnaround in the seventies, and
these guys all stayed in the city. Man, they were.
This was a renovation, renovation and the rejuvenation of our
city because of this football team. And so yeah, we

(25:35):
we won early. I went to the playoffs the first
six years, and you know, I think I just I
just put my head down, and you know, I just
felt like it was a blessing to be able to
coach your hometown team and to be able to do that.
But that's just I felt like the responsibility, Like you know,
just being from Pittsburgh, everybody, everyone wants to touch you

(25:57):
and they come up they always every always patting you
on the back or pat they said, they want to
hit you like you're one of them, right, so so
and I was one of them, you know, and I
wore my emotions on my sleeve. I really didn't care
what what like, I just I love to compete and
we were going to be a hard nosed, tough team
and we didn't like losing. But we love to compete
and if you knock us down, that will not define us.

(26:20):
We will get back up. And so it was about
a degree of resiliency that we needed to have and
that'd be kind of the very fiver that we were
built from.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
Coach you talked about trust and earning it a lot
of times as players we got to earn the trust
of our coaches. Was it a certain win or a
certain moment where you knew, like, okay, the players are
starting to trust what we're doing that first year because
it's usually a defining moment.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yeah, I think, you know, I think it's like when
you can have a win, a signature win. And I
think even the first win that we went down to
Houston and we had like lost a couple of defensive backs.
We had a couple of guys came out off the
street and we're playing a run and shoot with Warren
and we beat them, and Rod mad had a couple
of interceptions, like they were moving a ball, but once

(27:07):
they got into the red zone, we were squatting on
a lot of things, and all of a sudden, like
we made a couple of picks. Yeah, and and okay,
we did this and then all of a sudden, we
start running the ball and Barry Foster became up. Barry Foster,
he's been on the team for a couple of years,
but no one knew about Barry Foster. So it was,
you know, this is who we are. And I think
it does. I think I think that they trusted who

(27:28):
you were, and like I'd say, it's maybe I could
have maybe called a better game, and we got we'll
learn from this together and we'll go through some of
these trials and errors and learned to trust each other.
And I want to get us to be able to
have conversations like they didn't want to meet after practice, like, oh, no,
you don't have to, But I think it's just great
if we can have open dialogue. I think every one

(27:49):
of these coaches want to hear what your input is.
We can do some of the things that you might
want to do. Hey, that's a great idea. Let's try it.
You know. So I want you to take ownership over
this football team, and I got to be able to
allow you to have input into some things. If I
want you to take the ownership in the locker room
and like that to pulls find out who those alpha
dogs are and I I've maybe talked to. So that

(28:10):
was my first thing. Who are the guys in that
locker room? That was Rod, It was Greg Lloyd, it
was DEMONDI Dawson, it was Dwight Stone, it was some
of these guys that Okay, you guys are like what
can I do? Like, you know, I'm going to push you,
but I'm not gonna I don't want to lose you,

(28:31):
but I'm going to push you. I'm probably gonna make
you uncomfortable. So get comfortable being uncomfortable, because I think
that's the only way I can get the best out
of you.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yeah, now, coach uh, I want to know was there
any advice given to you when you took over the
team that you grew up probably rooting for from Chuck Knowle,
who had been there for twenty something years. Was there
any advice that he left with you?

Speaker 2 (28:57):
True story. I got on a plane, he says, I said,
I'm going down to Clemson to do a workout. He goes,
what don't you jump on the plane with Chuck and
he's going down to Florida to his home. I go,
this is great. I get to pick his brain. So
I go and I get on the plane. I said.
So we sit down and they coach, and then I go, Hey,
tell my bubby brister, Neil O'Donnell. What do you think? Yeah?

(29:19):
They're good? I go, yeah, I know, I mean they're
they're good players. I says, but like, did you like
one over the other? He goes, you know, they both
got their qualities. I go, okay, okay, we're not goingwhere
that way? Okay, I go the building. I said, let
me tell you about the building. I says, you know,
he had the GM. There's a director and mister Rooney.
I says, like, who did you go through first? Was
the did you have to like go through a certain mannery?

(29:40):
He said, it's a good building. I go, I know,
it's a good building. I understand. I says, do you
go to the GM. Yeah, GM's fine. Did you go
to him before, mister Rooney? Mister Rooney is a good man.
He'll listen to you. I go, okay, we are certainly
getting over. He goes, so, how's where you going to
live in Pittsburgh. I'm going okay. He doesn't want to
talk about football. He didn't want to give me any

(30:02):
preconceived thoughts coming into that building. And so that's why
I said, I said, sometimes we go in there figure
it out yourself.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yeah, and I figure it out yourself quick. Don't go
in there with a preconceived plan. Okay, I should talk
to this person and go I said, but I do
remember the only advice I got from Marty Schottenheimer was
the three most important people you're going to have that
you got to have a relationship within that building is
the owner, the owner, and the owner. So I always

(30:30):
remember that and and Dan Rudey wanted that, and so
I always had that with him. And in a lot
of times the conversations were about family, about the state
of the game, very very little about the state of
our team.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
Now, if that was advice, the great advice you got
from Marty Schottenhamer when you chose to walk away, did
you leave any advice with coach Tomlin?

Speaker 2 (30:56):
I gave him the same advice he gave me. I said,
there's a couple of beer, is a refrigerator every now
and then, you may want to have one. I didn't.
And you know, I just remember telling them we had
some qualified coaches on the staff. And I just said,
you know, there were some qualified coaches. When when Chuck
stepped out, and I says, but you went not kind
of outside the building with me. It wasn't a bad

(31:20):
path to take. So you know, bring someone else who
doesn't have preconceived thoughts.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
There we go, preconceived thoughts, that's the biggest I love that. Yeah,
and I'm glad that you learned that from Chuck. Know
that I'm not going there with preconceived thoughts. I don't
want to give him any either.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
No, you'll figure it out. Yeah, you'll figure it out.

Speaker 3 (31:37):
That's great.

Speaker 4 (31:38):
Two thousand and five was. It was a great season
for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Talk about that season and how
how great it was to actually win the Super Bowl
and just like that was that was what you were
working for.

Speaker 3 (31:51):
You know, you had been.

Speaker 4 (31:52):
There a while and finally too old and it was
you and you.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
You remember the game we played against you, that game,
that game was the pivotal game for us, and that
really was because we were we were eight and three.

Speaker 3 (32:07):
The bus ran me over that game too.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
And then we lost three straight games. And the first game,
I says, you know what this we had a goal
board up. I says, the only one goal we got.
We're gonna play this one game at a time, Chicago Bears.
So we sat there and we played, and that was
you guys had been wonting like six straight games coming
in there, and the snow came down. I go, god,

(32:32):
this is a great sign. It was, this is a
great sign. So the snow comes down.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
My first snow game, Yeah, it was it. It was
my first snow game.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
And you remember, but the bus running over Brian or.

Speaker 3 (32:41):
I do, I was right. I was at the end
of That's what was.

Speaker 4 (32:44):
Like he got Brian and then he got me because
I was like scraping over the top of runs to
the balls, like all this extra weight. I'm two hundred pounds,
it was like four hundred plus pounds.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
Was losing.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
And then the next week we had to go up
to Minnesota to play in Minnesota. They had they had
won like seven straight. So we'd beat Minnesota, Chicago, Minnesota
back to back. Then we went to Cleveland and like
they were not and we beat them. And then our
last game we had to beat the Detroit Lions. So
we had like three of the four. It was the
NFC North and so we won and got into the
sixth seed. And I'll just never forget that. So the

(33:16):
sixth seed, I said, hey, listen, no sixth seed has
ever even gone to a championship game, alone win a
Super Bowl. So last year's team that went to the
championship game and lost to the Patriots when Ben was
a rookie, we were fifteen and one. This team's going
to be maybe one and done, but currently if they
even get one, right, So you know, So it was

(33:40):
that was I kind of challenged our team with that,
and you know, and so I told the story matter
of fact that you know, in Christopher Columbus discovered America.
That you know, when he left, they told him, don't
do it because the world is flat and you're on
a death mission. But he said, no, I'm convinced that

(34:00):
something else out there, and Christopher Clumbus wiant to discover America.
And my point was very simply is don't let history
dictate your future. Let your future make history. Let's do
something that no one else thinks you can do. And
so that was kind of what we talked about that
being the case, and so everything every game that we
went on, I go, it's just another storm, you know.

(34:20):
And if you lose a couple along the way, that's
why we got depth on this team, he says, that's
why you have a lot of people. Sometimes you lose guys,
you know, and that's just part of it. Yeah, but
we're on this journey and we're gonna make We're going
to make history. We're going to do this thing.

Speaker 4 (34:32):
So where do you find and this is something that
I love about I love about love about head coaches.
Where do you find these stories and where do you
fund the inspiration to go in front of the team
on a Saturday night before the game and just give
them this great speech.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
You know, I had like I had Lou Holtz uh
in college and Lou Holtz hols Man. He was like,
you do magic trate, So he he more than just
oh he do master, you know what I mean. So
it's almost like you went in there like he took
your mind off of the game, but then he had
a way of bringing it back and like okay. And
the other guy he had was Frank Ants. Frank Antz

(35:12):
was a special teams coach in the Philadelphia Eagles. He
was a head coach for the Kansas City Chiefs for
a period of time. He was in the Marines. He
was an Army. He had the best stories about identifying
and talking about football being a gladiator being you know,
it's about you know, spree of corps, just like you
have a group that in the army and you're going
across that you're going against enemy lines. So that whole

(35:36):
concept of just having analogies along the way, that's kind
of like kind of not just about football, but kind
of about life, you know, and which is so true
about anything about you know, getting back up and surrounding
yourself with people that have your back, you know, and
just leaving it right there. It doesn't matter where you
come from, it doesn't matter at all. Like we're all

(35:56):
in here together. All it's a brotherhood. This is a family.
We're together, you know, and it's it's like and so
that was what we tried to build. I had three
daughters at home, and I said, I had fifty three
boys at work. It's the same thing. It's choices and consequences.
It's the people you surround yourself with most important. And
nothing good happens after midnight. Yeah, so true, you know,

(36:18):
so true. And I said, I Pittsburgh's a big, small city.
I said, I know where you're at. I know what
time you late you leave, So just just know that.
I'm like, you're under a watchful eye, I said, So
I will always be there watching over you.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
So you know, Coach, I mean, Peanut brings up such
a great point. And it's so interesting when we get
like we get a head coach of your caliber here
and you know, you tell this Chris forher Columbus thing
and I'm like, back in my defense my eyes, You're like.

Speaker 3 (36:48):
Yeah, yeah, we're going to do this.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, I don't know we're going to do that. They
keep telling you, what's the greatest thing in sports? Doing
something someone tells you you can't do?

Speaker 3 (36:58):
It's nothing better.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
Can't do it? Oh yeah, I can't do it, thank you.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
You know, And we take that stuff for granted, honestly,
because we've been in so many meetings, We've heard so
many you know, the burn the boat speeches.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
And all this.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
Yeah, it's crazy because you know, I think it's normal.
I think it's very because I've just been to it.
We've been blessed, they've been spoiled with it.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
And my daughter's basket AAU basketball team they lost the
game a couple of weeks ago, and you know, parents
are like whatever, Look, they're in eighth grade. I'm like,
nobody's ever asked me about any game that I lost.
It Like, never, nobody's ever asked you about a game
in eighth grade. It's way bigger life than this, right,
And so the girls are kind of down on themselves,
and I just come over there to them and I'm like, hey, look,

(37:47):
you ever heard of foxhole mentality?

Speaker 3 (37:49):
They were like, no, what is that? Like somebody laughing?
You guys know exactly what.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
We're in this together together.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
Man.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
Foxhold mentality is like, man, you go down, you know,
you look at all the girls on your team. That's
all you Got's no coaches, ain't no parents, You don't
hear nobody.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
It's just you got.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
You're the foxhould see anybody else else at right? We
gonna go handle it and we're gonna sell it ourselves.
You have that mentality and you get each other's back,
and won't nobody be able to face you? And then
they were like every parent was like where did you
get that from? They've never heard it. It's like, this
is you.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
Know, And I just thank you for what you guys
are doing because you're talking about like just the second
acccan and and that's so true in life. And I
think that the lessons that we've learned playing this sport
that we love and yes, at the highest of levels
and doing that, but you also you gave a bit
of yourself to a better a bigger cause, and that

(38:53):
to me is what the you know, life is about.
And so your podcast is awesome because I think we're
constantly trying to trans from one phase of life to another,
and I think that's the challenge that we all have
because we're not players anymore. We can't do the things
that we once did where it's physically or even mentally.
So what where are you? But stay stay purpose driven,

(39:14):
stay challenging yourself, find a sense of purpose in what
you're doing in life, whatever that may be. You know,
and that to me is the thing that we all
have to be able to go through. So I applaud
you for bringing this up and talking about transitioning from
one phase of life to another, because we all go
through it, whether they like to or not.

Speaker 3 (39:33):
We'll be back in a minute. I want to know this.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
We ask a lot of people, this is like, what
was your welcome to the NFL moment as a coach,
whether it's special teams or as a head coach?

Speaker 2 (39:47):
Well, the head coach, this is the true. I think
it was nineteen eighty five. It was like my first
year is a special teams coach. I think as a
preseason game, the very first preseason game, and the opening
kickoff was returned for a touchdown.

Speaker 3 (40:04):
I go, wow, I.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
Go, and then we we had like we had a
rough and the punter like I go, I go, I go.
He's like, I go, No, I go I got this.
I go. I'm okay, I go. I I you say,
it's the pre season, Okay, I go, don't fire me.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
It's one game for one.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
Game, and I'm telling you I can do this. So
it was like okay, oh man, Well, like golf goes
and this goes, and all of a sudden you try
to block the kick and all of sudden rough the
kicker to give the first down. Like what the hell?
I got? I go, I know, I know, I got
got coach, I got it, I got I'll get this right.
But you know, that was that was an assistant And
then you know, I think head coaching is just it's

(40:44):
it's just all the responsibility that that you kind of had.
I think my first year was such a like I said,
thank God goodness, there was like a paper strike because
I was just trying to like, you know, do the
right thing, and you know, one guy is doing this
and just trying to keep everything together and yet be fair,
you know, and just know there's a give and take,

(41:05):
Like we can't just sit there and ask these guys
just to do what you're asking them to do. We
have to we have to win their trust. And I said,
and that's going to be a little give and take
on both sides of it. We're gonna ask me to
do something, but then I'm gonna take them to the
movies half instead of doing the afternoon two today practice,
we're gonna go to the movies, but there's another afternoon
we're not gonna go to the movies, and we may
be out here for two and a half hours. We're

(41:26):
going to start the practice over because clearly didn't realize.
You must think that we didn't have the pads on
because I haven't heard a pad pop yet. We don't
have shows on. There's pads on. So let's just start
this over because clearly guys were unaware that.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
That's a that's a that's a vet coach move all day.
You know what, Hey, when they go start all the
way back to stretch.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
You're like.

Speaker 3 (41:52):
Everybody all the way over.

Speaker 4 (41:56):
I when I to hear that is display.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
So he was just mumbling and here's here.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
You know, when you get there for a while, they'll
know that I'm getting that way. When all of sudden
I get quiet. If I get quiet, I mean joy
pieces going. Oh PC's getting quiet. Man, it's pick this
up like like I just pick it up. Let's go.
He's getting quiet over there. I'm like, we're gonna have
to start this over.

Speaker 4 (42:23):
We did something like that. When you remember Rivera came
on the bus. We were getting ready to This is
in twenty fifteen. We're getting ready to go Pittsburgh. We're
finna play somebody, and something happened and Rivera came on
the bus. It was like, everybody get off the bus.
We had him in the meat room and it was.

Speaker 3 (42:39):
Just like, oh my god, here we go.

Speaker 4 (42:42):
We finny get it. And then it was just one
of those it is like, all right, we got to
straighten up. Fellas, like, come on, I'm not used to getting.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
Yelled at the coach. Really, this ain't really in his character.
I think I'll put a name on it.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
I think you know, Cam didn't wear a tie in
like a suit, and he was just like, all right,
we're winning. Everybody's just feeling a little too good. It was,
you know, it is it's just like, you know what,
I don't even.

Speaker 3 (43:02):
Like how I'm a chim right now the house.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
I don't even like how my kids are acting before
we leave out. So as a matter of fact, everybody
out the car and then we ran back in, he
roasted everybody in the team meeting and then sent us
back on the way, and we're like, okay, gotcha.

Speaker 3 (43:18):
Got it. You know, it's just like.

Speaker 4 (43:21):
Yeah, yeah, it's all said, know, yell at us, no
mo yes, coach. What I want to know is the
Pittsburgh blue collar mentality you coached guys like Troy Palmerleu
Rod Woodson, James Harrison, Hardy Nickerson, Kevin Green. Was this
something that you had to drive into those players because

(43:42):
I know some of them they're not from that that
Pittsburgh area, right, So was that something that you really
had to drive into them, like the blue collar Pittsburgh mentality.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
Yeah, and it was. It's just how I like to
play the game of football. Honestly, I really do believe
there's a physicality to the game that back then start
on the lines and it went out. But it was,
you know, to me, that's what the Pittsburgh Steers were
all about. That's what that blue collar mentality of Pittsburgh was.

(44:12):
It's like a lunch pale, like like we're gonna be
pack your lunch because it's going to be a while.
You know, if you think you're gonna beat us. You
bear make sure it's going to take a while. We
packed our lunch. It means it might be a bad morning,
bad first half, but we eat that lunchtime, and when
it's all said and done, we're gonna be still standing.
And if we're not still standing, we're gonna get back up.
We're gonna be your worst nightmare. So I just wanted

(44:33):
to have a physicality how we play the game to
be able to close games. I think that that's important,
and I think that people thought that. And then if
you watch us evolve, we threw the ball more in
the first half than anybody else in the national football
Like I still always just think about you throwing early
to run late, because if you have a mentality of
being able to close the game and know that that's
who you are, but then you open it up early

(44:56):
and have some diversity in what you're doing. Some exam
he plays. I like flea flickers, I like reverses to
slow down defenses. I just thought doing those things double
move early, dude, don't say but do it early, because
not all If I can just do one thing to
slow you down and to make sure on the backside
before you start to taking off, chase and being like
a Troy Palmalu. I'm bringing some of that else right right,

(45:17):
I'm i gotta reverse coming right back your way. So
if I can just slow you and have you think
a little bit about every bit of your responsibility, whether
it's a double move, it's reverse, whether it's a flea
flicker or some nature that. If I can do that
early in the game, I think I've accomplished a little
bit of the fact that I got you now playing

(45:37):
in the back of your heels a little bit instead
of feeling free lancing and being able to sit there
and just do whatever you want to do.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
I like that.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
Well, yeah, because now you got me thinking, I know
what I'm saying, Like I'm thinking now I'm going away
from the book now, I'm going from football mode. Not
like that, because I loved watching the Steelers, all right,
you guys are I was rooting big time for you
guys when you know nil O'donnald through the interceptions in
the Superhero like this was my team, okay, And I
loved you guys because of the defense, Greg Lloyd, Kevin Green,

(46:05):
Rob Curtiinson, guys.

Speaker 3 (46:08):
So I want to talk about that, but I wanted to.
I normally talk about defense.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
I want to go to offense though, and you talked
about how you guys love to throw it early, to
run it late, and you guys with so much shotgun too.
When you had Neil O'donald like a lot more than
what most teams were doing at that time. But then
you had Slash and Cordell Stewart and he would make
getting him in the mix.

Speaker 3 (46:31):
How did this thing kind of evolve? And did when?

Speaker 2 (46:33):
Did you? Like?

Speaker 3 (46:34):
Man, we I think we've really got something.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
So so Cordell. So we get Cordell and is we
drafted him the second round and it's like ninety five,
and so I said, hey, listen, uh you know Neil,
this is we went the ANC championship game here before.
So I says, you know this is Neil's team, Soboby,
you can sit back there at back of them up.
So he's played back up in training camp and then

(46:58):
all of a sudden, like the first week, we had
a bunch of injuries and I like, quit, just WoT
go out there and just give you a scout team receiver.
He goes sure, and he went out there and going
like a semi w out and I'm going and he
cut like he plucked his bone. He tapped pat to
his feet and goes, damn. I go, he's pretty good.
And so I go, I said, run just let's some

(47:20):
put him in just a couple offensive plays. Let's go
five wives. Because we have Andre Haston's fancy fake penn,
we have Arnie Mills, and so we had like I said,
let's put him in there. And so he got So
we got him. I said, you know, everything is good
about this. I said, let him see Neil run the
huddle too. That way he'll be in the huddle, he'll
watch the quarterback call the play. It's be kind of

(47:41):
great chance for him to see how what it's like
on game day, not just in practice, yeah, in terms
of taking a play and call him playing in the huddle.
And so he played receiver that year and he probably
caught thirty five forty balls. So the next year Neil leaves. Okay,
after the Super Bowl, we didn't sign him. He had
won a big contry back and so I said, okay,

(48:02):
well we still have we have Quardell, we have Jim Miller,
and we have Mike tom Zack. So we go into
training camp and I'm going, okay, that one's really separating themselves.
And all of a sudden, like the weekend, I got, hey, Cordella,
I said, come here, I go. Honestly, you're still one
of our better receivers. I said, give me one more year.
I said, I tell you what, I'm gonna call you

(48:23):
quarterback slash uh wide receiver. I'm gonna call you slash. Yeah,
and I go, So I gave him the name slash
because it's quarterback slash wide receiver. I go, I want
to play quarterback. I go, I know, and I want
you to. I go, but right now, you're the best,
one of the best receivers we got.

Speaker 3 (48:40):
Yes, I go.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
So now I'm I get Jim Miller and Mike Toms.
I was like, I can't rotate. It's hard for three
guys to find out. None of you guys are separating yourself, right.
So then I go Tom Zach and he starts. He
does the whole year, and Jim Miller backs him up
and we go to the playoffs with Tom Zach and
then you know, and then I said, okay, it was
Cordell's year. The next year, and we did a lot
of things. Chang Gaily was great with him. Yes, you know,

(49:03):
and then Chan after the ninety seven season, our first year,
we go to the AC Championship game with Cordell. You know,
he has a tough AC Championship game against Denver. I
there's a couple of interceptions, but that year, you know,
the quarterback draws the empty, We ran the option. We
did a lot of things that people are doing today
with Lamar and stuff. Yes, we did that stuff back
in nineteen ninety seven.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
Yeah, that you guys open it up and nobody was
ready for you.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
No, no, he was ready for that. I said. At
the same time, in the fourth quarter, we had two
tight ends and we had John out. We had a
fullback and running back, so we could we could play
bully ball, but we could open it up to and
do that that. We had that kind of diversity in
doing that. But we never lost the identity of being
a team and we we're gonna win to run the ball.
We're going to run it. You know, we're going to

(49:45):
run it. Yet we're gonna win it and run it successfully.
That was a whole mentality. But we can open it
up until then.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
This is like that.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
As soon as you brought him like, oh yeah, this
is exactly what I want to be because like it
was so exciting for me as a young person, like
watching you guys play because it just looks so different
than everybody else.

Speaker 3 (50:04):
And Slash was like he.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
Was he was and he was great. I mean he was.
I loved him and we talked a lot because you know,
he was going through that time and like like, you know,
get pigeonholed like I'm too good of an athlete to
be a quarterback and no, no, I'll never I'm not
looking at it that way. Yeah, I'm just looking at
like you're like still one of the best receivers we got.
And I said, I put you a quarterback. I'm depleting

(50:28):
you of a really good receiver. That's you, I said,
I said, So, I said, I got even get another
receiver in here before I can start doing this. So
you know, and we we tried after Edwards. We drafted
Plex in two thousand and then, so it was, you know,
just trying to build up that passing game because we
became a kind of a running mentality, but there was
only so far you could go with that, too.

Speaker 3 (50:49):
Coach, how good was Rod Woodson?

Speaker 2 (50:52):
D Rod Special he was, there's another guy that you
just kind of let him do his thing, you know.
He he would young things at times, and you know,
and I just saw Darren Perry was a free safety
there and I said, Darren, if Rod does one of
these things, he do it. He do it like a
tap on the side, which means he I think he

(51:13):
would know if it was gonna be a hitch. I said,
if he doesn't, means he's jumping it. And I said,
you need to back him up. And so David Johnson's
on the other side. I go, David, you so one
time he goes, what if they both tap? I go,
he go? I go what he goes? They both start.
David Johnson wanted to do it too because he saw
Rod do it. I go, well, I'm gonna tell David
you can't have both, because I said, what if they
both do? I go just get deep, get really really deep.

(51:34):
I just just back up on the snap. I says, yeah,
so because I said, but but I want Rod to
be ahead of the luxury being able to jump certain things.
If he sees certain things and he sees a formation.
And I used to go in there and try to
like he'd be in there watching tape, Like like in Troy,
those were two guys Like I'd go in there like
sixth seven o'clock six thirty on a on a Tuesday

(51:55):
or Wednesday morning, and they're in there watching tape. So
I learned a little bit like what do you looking at?
Like I want to hear, like what are you looking at?
Splits like stances, formations, you know, and so you know
if this foots back or this foots up, you know,
it's just like like just tell me what you're looking.
So it's really really it was educational to me to

(52:18):
to to get into the eyes of great players. What
makes you like instincts come some way? What are you
seeing that we're not what everybody else doesn't see.

Speaker 4 (52:28):
It's also like you're trying to learning too, though, like
I'm giving you I was going to, I'm giving you
the freedom, but like you sound like you help me
help me out.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Like what do I want to be able to see
that too? And then if I can, if I can
see it, then I can help the whole teambslutely, but
like like what are you seeing like? And then sometimes
it goes well it's just a feel I go don't
don't miss that feel too often.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
Like, what did Rod Woodson ever like coaching him? Did
you ever like learn something from coaching all these great
So you see what.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
I'm saying, lot, I mean, he walked by me every
now and he goes pressure, coach pressure, We can't cover
this long. I go, okay, it's okay, Dick. Rod says,
we need to blitz a little bit more because because
it's too long to cover. But you know, he also
is a guy that I'd go over him and he'd
have one of those days, you know. As matter of fact,

(53:21):
the fourth game we were three and oh my first
three games, and the fourth game would go to Green
Bay and they had benched Don mccous can put this
young second year player and named Brett varv the start
his first start in Green Bay, and Rod got beat
on a double move twice, and then he tried to

(53:42):
retire to punt and started looking and dropped the punt.
So it's like one of those days where he just
kept everything he kept trying to do to make up
for it was backfiring on. Yeah, And I just remember
at the end of the day, just walking off the field,
I say, Rod, it's just one of those days. Man.
He says, you know, it's one of those days. I says,
you know they're coming after you. You're going to get
some double moves because you have a tendency to jump stuff.

(54:04):
And I said, just just standing there with the punt,
just see the I'm not going to tell you to
catch it in front of you. I said, if you
want to just see it over, just make sure you
can see see it in your hands, over your hand,
I go, I'm just make sure you see yourself catching.
Quit looking Quit doing this and looking at I said,
you can't. It's like the same guys are like you
have to see the ball go into your hands.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
One thing first, I did, just.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
Catch see the ball go into your hands. I don't
care if it's above your head. I don't care if
it's down here whatever I said. And he okay, I said,
but don't you stop being you. You're a special player.
So it's just like sometimes you need they need a
little bit of a patent. Oh yeah, absolutely, it's you know,
it's like it's like, you know, because anyone starts to

(54:44):
question themselves a little bit, you know, is it my age?
I starting to get old? Why not see things away?
I used to see things now. You're still the same player.

Speaker 3 (54:52):
That happened to me.

Speaker 4 (54:53):
Right two thousand and five, I was like in a
three game slump and I'm just like and I was like,
what am I doing?

Speaker 3 (55:02):
Am I?

Speaker 4 (55:02):
Am I not seeing coverage? Am I not watching the film?
Am I not running enough? And I just I mean
three weeks in a row, I gave up three touchdowns.
This is what my second third year in the league.
And I think, uh, my saving grace was Mike Brown
safety Mike Brown. Mike Brown was like, hey, you're a playmaker, man,
you know you're a great player. Like just you're in
your head.

Speaker 3 (55:21):
You got to get out of your head.

Speaker 4 (55:24):
I didn't have a coach, it was and I think
it meant more to me because it was it was
a player, right, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
It was my period letting me like, man, you're good enough,
Like right, but you're right. It was just one of
them days.

Speaker 4 (55:34):
And sometimes you need that pep talk from one of
your guys.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Yeah, and it particularly in the back end of the defense.
Man you got you know, you sit there and you
are out in space. You know, you get offensive lineman.
I know, you get beating everything else. But you have
to go watch the film to see what happened. You
can see what happened out there. I mean it's very clear,
you know, you can see what happened. You jump something,
you kind of you got stuck in a transitional place

(56:02):
and the guy gets value and it's like, well, you
miss a tackle or something. And I said, you know,
but that's like, that's gonna happen everybody. That's gonna happen
to everybody. The great ones are doing it right, and
the great ones, the great ones come back. Yeah, and
they said they kind of like, Okay, that's fine, you
know what, that's fine. It's gonna happen again. And if
it happens again, it won't happen after that. Yes, it's
because it's gonna probably happen again too. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:24):
Short memory, yeah better, definitely got had a short memory.
Definitely had a short memory. So in two thousand and
six she stepped away from the game, and then you
were super close coming back in twenty ten. What was
the purpose of not actually stepping back in the game,
because you said you were looking for the right opportunity.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
Well, I stepped down after two thousand and six. My
wife was not in a great place. Turns out, she
ended up passing away three years later. She had gotten
cancer and she had early all timers, and so there
are some things that I just felt like, we've been
together since college, we had three daughters, and I thought,

(57:04):
you know, I had to, you know, had the gig
at CBS. I just felt like it was just time,
and it was fifteen years and I wanted to be
there for her. And I was so glad I did
for those three years because it was very, very meaningful
for me. She passed away. In twenty ten, I met
my current wife and now we've been married for eleven

(57:25):
years up in New York, and so I started listening
to people, and people I got asked by a lot
of people to come back. I was still fifty three
years old, just out of the game for like four
or five years, and I mean I get asked even
when I was out to come back. But the more
I was out and the more I started doing the

(57:48):
TV gig, it was challenging and I started just like
like I wanted to get better at it. I go,
you know, I got to be able to do a
better job with my words. I got a Pittsburgh Accient'
off sentences. Okay, I got I'm sounded like a yinser,
and that doesn't resonate with people around the world, like
like like what's he saying? What do you say again?

(58:09):
And so I didn't like. And then I had this
off season and I said, you know, I met my
current wife and she came from She was in New York,
born in New York. Then she had family in Switzerland,
family in Israel. So I started doing his traveling and
the off season, I said, man, there is an off
season in his life after football, which I never even

(58:31):
knew because I went right from playing the coaching and
I did it. Like I just it was like twenty
four to seven. I never traveled. I did any traveling
was because we had a game in Tokyo or a
game in Lanta and game in Mexico or you know whatever,
and so in Ireland, and so I just and then
she was like, I said, you know, and she said

(58:52):
you can go back. I said, you know, I sat
there with all my players so many times and just
told them it just you don't need to. Don't don't
finish your career anywhere. Stay with one team, be with
one team. There's something special about being a one helmet
or one one team person and I can't say that
to them and then turned around and come back. I
just could not imagine myself not being a Pittsburgh Steeler

(59:15):
as a head coach. And you know, I know I
played with Cleveland and talked to the Browns a lot
and other teams as well, but it was I don't
think I ever really, I never really came that close,
to be quite honest with you. I mean, I mean
a lot of people thought the Giants because I'm in
New York, I said, you know, when you're coaching, you
really don't have a social life, particularly then run the

(59:36):
camera phone coming back out with all the transparency that
was out there. I was that guy when I was coaching,
Like I like to go have a beer on a
Friday night or even after a game, I'd go have
a beer somewhere. And I just I was like with
my kids all the time, and you know, and I
just I just I had I just felt like until
like like at two thousand and five year we won

(59:58):
a Super Bowl. After that, it was never are the
same because I feel like I couldn't go anywhere anywhere.
I'd go into hotels, I didn't want to go down
to the lobby. I said, I fel like a prisoner
in my own life. And I don't like being this way.
Because I had three daughters. I was on all his
au trips. I'd stay in the same hotels they stay at,
you know, and they go, is that is that the coach?
I go, No, that's Megan's dad. They would and they
wouln't evenlet they wouldn't even say it, and they would

(01:00:18):
they would come around me and people would come up,
they go, he's you can't see him. So her teammates
would would protect me. And I was just like and
it was like that little bubble I had in Pittsburgh
that I came to New York and the aneminity I
had in New York. I kind of like that down
the street like hey hey, coach every now and then
like like okay, but then people are so used to

(01:00:40):
seeing people in New York, right, so it's just like
I go, I love this city, Like this is great.
So I've been there ever since, you know, I said,
you go to Central Park every now and then you're
in somebody who speaks English, so this is this is great.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
I like that. I do too, we'll be right back
after a quick break. Coach, I gotta be honest.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
I mean, you know, you know why I liked you
so much as a Pittsburgh head coach because you look
like you're from Pittsburgh.

Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
I mean, you got the chin, you got the look.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
You're just kind of angry on times on the sideline.
This is like really what stood out to me as
a young person. It was like, Coach Coward looks like
like a head coach.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
You know, you know I used to you still come
up to me and they would they would like lady
old ladies in a grocery store, like we love it
when you get mad like that, puched me on the
cheek a little bit of buble. I think, thank you, man,
I think I guess that's a good thing. I don't know.
I go like then my wife says, you know they
got you got it. You gotta quick getting mad and

(01:01:41):
cussing on the sideline.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
So I'd be like, I'm just thrill you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Vivid memories in my I'm just trying to Okay, they're
probably coming to me right now. But man, after the
after the next playing, I'm gonna I know where you're at.
I mean, you're not going to talk.

Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
The this is big for me. Yes, that face. You
already know that face. So have you ever had a
break or you just get off.

Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
Seasons because you went straight from this to that and
you've been doing TV ever since you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Yeah, I love this And I also I talked to
a lot of talked to a lot of coaches and
jams like around the league, and I'm just just as
a person like to me the wisdom that I can
share with others from what I learned. Yeah, and to
be able to share that is really the legacy that
you end up having. It's not what you've done accomplished,

(01:02:34):
It's like the people you can talk to along the
way and what would you have done? Like this is
what I did like in my fourth and fifth year
that I wish I would have done my first and
second year, you know. And so and I love the
game and I feel like having the platform just to
keep the you know, the what the game is all about,

(01:02:55):
you know at times, if you know, if I feel
like people are getting overlooked a coaching perspective, and I'm
going to use my platform and call people out. Jump line.
There's people that like pay your dues do it the
proper way. You know, we all speculate on a lot
of things that we talk about with players. And I said, man, like,
there's a lot more to it than just what we see.

(01:03:16):
You know, there's a lot more going on behind the scenes,
and let's just be respectful of the fact that, like
we don't know everything. Right, we can sit there and
speculate on a lot of things, but that's just speculation
because you know, there's applying a lot more to it
than we even know. So it's hard for me to
sit there and you know, oh, that's the receiver's fault.
How do you notice the receiver's fault. Maybe the receiver

(01:03:37):
is actually right and a quarterback might have been wrong,
or the quarterback's fault, but maybe the receiver didn't go
deep enough for I don't know what they called. I'm
not sure exactly what the progression is for the read.
And we all sit there with these guys at the planet. Oh,
I know exactly what they did. Like there, you don't,
like you're not in that meaning room, like we all
think we think that's covered too. We think that he

(01:03:58):
probably should be a little bit wider, deeper, like like
like maybe you should stay with him, but I don't
know what he's being told, Like I don't know what's
being said, because we all can teach some of that.
The game is the game is chess, it's not checkers.
There's so many little interosyncrasies that we know, and everyone
plays it a little bit differently, and you don't know
what's being said in that room. And that's why a

(01:04:19):
lot of these teams we look at the head coaches,
but let's just look at the assistant coaches, because to me,
those are more important. Like I coached coaches that I
didn't coach the players as the head coach. I coached
the coaches because I wanted them to be able to
have that relationship with the player and not just me
as a head coach. Like I'll intervene if I have
to have an intervention, and I'm gonna tell coordinators like, Okay,

(01:04:42):
we're not throwing the ball, we're gonna run it here,
and we have to blitz more and I want to
save the blitzer in the second half, so they have
to make an adjustment there. So I was involved with
the defensive side strategically and even offensively, you know. So
I mean I just think a head coach should be
on both sides of the ball. You to be the
person that if there's intervention needed on both sides of

(01:05:02):
the ball, you need to intervene. But let them do
their thing. Yeah, let the coaches do. Let them call
their names. That the coaches, coaches the individual players. You
can see it from afar and you can coach the coaches.
And so that to me is like and that's how
you give them a chance to become a head coach.
That's how I was brought up.

Speaker 3 (01:05:17):
See, But that's that's an old school mentality.

Speaker 4 (01:05:20):
Yeah, because being around Ron Rivera and when I was
we were blessed to being Carolina with him in twenty
fifteen and every Saturday night he would let one of
his assistant coaches take the whole room and he would
give them twenty minutes. And it could be the assistant

(01:05:41):
dB coach, the decoordinator, the defensive quality control coach, the
guy on the lowest, the coach at the lowest totem pole,
the lowest guy at the bottom. He ay, you got
thirty minutes. Man, want to talk to the team. And
I remember I remember one one of the coaches. I'm
why am I joy on a blank right now, but

(01:06:02):
he would Uh. He was just I'm just like, dang, man,
that's that's I've never seen a coach, a head coach
give a young guy, a young twenty three, twenty twenty
four year old, the whole room for the whole entire
team and he gives them twenty minutes right before for
a game. And I remember asking. I asked coach about that.

(01:06:23):
I was like, hey, I ain't never seen that, but
I like, I like what you're doing. I like how
you're given the young guys. He goes, well, Pina, you know,
I believe in giving everyone an opportunity because my goal
is a head coach, I want all these guys to
be head coaches. That's that's my goal as a head coach.
That's my job is to get them to be head coaches.
And I just thought that was the coolest ever. I

(01:06:44):
was like, man, I ain't never heard of it like that,
Like that's but to me, that's that was an old
school mentality.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
Yeah, And I did it a lot with players, Like
the night before game, I would I would get like
three guys that were veterans that just talk about where
we are in the season, and you know what we
have to do tomorrow and how important it is right
now not to just take it for granted, you know.
And just like you here, you're hearing me. Listen to

(01:07:10):
your guys that are in the locker room, do you guys?
I wanted you to take ownership in that locker room.
I like, I want to be able to come to
me if there's an issue that I can address it.
I'm not going to call anybody out, but I can
pull somebody in and say, listen, clearly, either you're staying
not too late at night. I don't know what's going
on with you at home, but you're not You're not
in it, and it's very evident. And because players know,
players know, that's like not like of course you're sitting

(01:07:33):
next to them, like like so I said, tell me,
so I can't address a problem I don't know exists,
but if it exists, I'm not going to grab anybody out,
but let me get on top of him, because I'm
going to be like they know, I'll find out know,
and I'm gonna give them a chance to respond, give
them a chance to know that Okay, okay, I'm not
getting away with anything here. And because if you if

(01:07:54):
they don't respond, then it's going to cost us at
some point because it's not important to the person if
I can just call him out a little bit on
him and just say, listen, you need to clean it up,
and it's evident, and most of the time guys will
respond to that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
Yeah, well you're stepping up to the challenge. Yeah, and
that's what ultimately, that's what this game is all about.
And the greatest ones always respond and you're not gonna
don't want to let down the guy next year exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:08:20):
That's what being part of a team is. And same thing.
That's probably why coach ron but.

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
Was ready to share, share the lower everybody else because
that's what he did. He grew up on a great
team and with a whole bunch of personalities, and that's
what he would.

Speaker 3 (01:08:32):
Talk to us about all the time. Coach, I want
to know, how does it feel that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
Or is it weird when most people probably know you
now because of TV and not because of your great career.

Speaker 3 (01:08:45):
Yeah, like the power of the TV.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
It's real, it's real, it's yeah, you know, and it's
just even coming here to the Hall of Fame, you know,
you sit there and you know, you never think about
your as being like a Hall of Fame guy, Like like, man,
I'm in there with these players who I just sit
there And last year I saw Dick Buckets the year before,

(01:09:11):
like two years ago, and I'd like, Dick Buckets was
something I never had a chance to talk to him,
and he was my hero and he ended up passing
away like last year, and I'm like, man, sitting there
with guys, and I go to the table. I have
a stew er table. Tomorrow Joe Green will be there
and John Star will be there, Mel Blunt and I've
got to know these guys. It's just the history of

(01:09:32):
the game. It just means so much to me and
the guys that the pioneers who've paved the way for us.
It's so humbling and like I just like, you know,
Warren asked me last year to get up and talk
at the Nisky Luncheon and it's just gold Jacket guys.
I couldn't do it. I just I didn't feel worthy.
I just I bet Yet It's like I know that

(01:09:53):
I probably am, and it'd probably be good because I
do think that I probably share the same values most
of the people in that room do because I came
for where the game was. My first year in nineteen
eighty was a cardiac kids of the Cleveland Browns and
I was a substitute teacher in the off season. I
made twenty thousand dollars and so it was like it

(01:10:14):
was like you know, back in the day, like we
had jobs in the off season and football was really great.
It wasn't and today I know, but that's that's what
I don't. I think we got to remember. I just
remember that people played it because they loved the game.
They love the game, the love of the game, and
I just want to preserve that in whatever platform I have.

(01:10:38):
What the game is all about, the core values that
teaches you, the things that you can take away. It's
not about the money. And I know the money's great
and we all want to focus on that, but man,
when you're working in sacrificing and putting a helmet on,
and all of a sudden, you were the best at
what in college and you get to the pro and
all of a sudden, now you're just one of a role.
You have a role on the team that's life. Well,

(01:11:00):
welcome to life, and all of a sudden you got
to prove yourself at another level. Yeah, that's kind of
like what happens to go in the business world. Until
you prove yourself. You got to sit there and be
a part and take your role. Excel at it, and
you'll get more responsibility. Excel at it. You'll find yourself
maybe at the top, overseeing a lot of things. Right.

Speaker 3 (01:11:18):
Yeah, I like that, so true, so true. I can't
believe you were a substitute teacher.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
Dude.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
Like the stories of former players selling insurance salesman car
sellman washing was like, dude, I've been selling stuff since college.

Speaker 3 (01:11:36):
He was just what he did. He was like, I
was a.

Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
Number one insurance salesman in Georgia in college. I'm like what, Yeah,
off season real jobs Like this is crazy to me.

Speaker 3 (01:11:47):
It's fine, I mean, it's It's just.

Speaker 1 (01:11:49):
Like if we told young people now, like second rounders
making thirteen million dollars in the contract blows my mind.

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
Blows my mind still, But you just said they would.
They couldn't believe it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
Even college players now, the money they made, the little
bit of money that they're making, it's not little for everybody,
but they be like, why would I get a job.

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
I know, I know, I know.

Speaker 4 (01:12:12):
So now that you're on TV, I know you said, uh,
you know, being in Pittsburgh, you were recognized everywhere. Yeah,
and so you went to New York and have the
amnemity and you can just kind of blend and gold
places and you don't have the old ladies pinching your.

Speaker 3 (01:12:26):
Cheeks and all that other stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:12:27):
Right, So, now that you're on TV, I s everybody
knows you're now coach.

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
I know the places to go in the New York I
have some.

Speaker 3 (01:12:38):
So you got some, you got some hot house, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
Yeah, but you know what them it's for all the
right things. Yeah, yeah, I think that's you know again,
I get it's like being a steward of the game,
you know at some point, and I take pride in
it and don't take it for granted and don't expect
anything more than just you know, just I love the game.
I always have loved the game. Just everything that stands for,

(01:13:01):
like you said, like the just the core values that
that that that that you have to have. And it's
so many analogies that are so similar to even running
a business. So like I do speaking at times leadership,
speaking and talking about just you know, starts from the
top down. What leadership is all about, what it entails.
And when you have transparency, you have you know, people

(01:13:25):
coming together and you know, working together for common purpose
and you know, just being able to delegate and also
being whole people accountable. So it's like you know, you know, collaboration, transparency,
that that's that's you have. That that's it starts.

Speaker 4 (01:13:40):
There has being in the TV space help you tap
into parts of yourself that you couldn't do as a
as a coach.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
You know what I love about TV. It's live. And
you know, there's something about live TV kind of like
a game, like like you can't screw up, like like
like you know, it's like it's live. You know, you
have a Sunday afternoon, you get butterflies right before you
go out there because it's game time and everything's out there.
I get butterflies now before every show. So I said, you,

(01:14:14):
when you lose that, then then it's not important to you.
So I prep, I prep, I watch tape. I'm not
gonna say something about a player that I didn't. You
may not see the same way I do, but I
I I this is the way I saw you know, so,
but I saw it I'm not gonna listen to what
somebody else said. I'm gonna see it out with my
own eyes. And if I don't know it it's something
to be factual, then like I'm not gonna, you know,

(01:14:35):
say something, but you know then you you know, get
on the show and like we have a great show.
It's we're kind of like it's now it's nay Burn listen,
JB and Matt Ryan and myself and like we're getting
ready to gear up for another season. There's only four
of us now on it set instead of five. J
J and Whitt went into the booth and we're talking
now by trying to make the show more of a

(01:14:56):
where we can sit back and talk and have banter,
not just everyone have an opinion, you know, like boom boom,
boom boom. That's that's that's take one. You know, banter,
Banter is great TV. Banter has got to be something,
which means we got to have less meetings and less
just talk about what the subject may be. We can
talk to the producer, but let's not talk to each other.

(01:15:19):
Like that's that's like, that's that's that's come together every Sunday,
sit on that couch every Sunday. That's talk football. That's
that's that's what that's what we're gonna do.

Speaker 3 (01:15:27):
Well, because you guys, let me.

Speaker 4 (01:15:29):
I want to know what was your welcome to the
I'm on live TV. What was that moment like for you?
If you've had one live tea I had, I'm not.

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
Gonna call him ott, but I had someone we were
in a production meeting and so everyone had this point,
and so I had a point and my first year
and so it going down the line, and right before
it got to me, the point that I made the
production meeting was made by the person next. Wow, you've

(01:16:00):
took you know, I'm like, okay, okay, whoa, I go okay,
I see how it works around here.

Speaker 3 (01:16:06):
Don't say aline to production media lets and learned okay, rook,
all right, rook.

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
I guess I shared way.

Speaker 4 (01:16:13):
Too much so when you were supposed to share it,
and that other person took it, and then it came
time to.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
You what I like, you know, that's a good point
at this point. But that was a really good point
you made.

Speaker 3 (01:16:30):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:16:30):
I that has happened to me on TV before live Charles, No, no, no.

Speaker 3 (01:16:36):
Not peanut. But I work on another show.

Speaker 1 (01:16:38):
And when that does happen, you do panic. Let's not
get it twisted. So what did you do when it
happened to you? Well, that's why I go first first
year though, first year live?

Speaker 4 (01:16:49):
Like what first year? Not like now because I feel
like you got some miles on you. You're a little
bit more experienced. But like that that first time live
maybe not even SEC network, but like just first time
live TV.

Speaker 3 (01:17:02):
I took your spot.

Speaker 1 (01:17:03):
Go dude, I was in full blown panic mode because
that was during COVID too. When I first got it,
I wasn't even around anybody. It's just me looking into
a camera, trying to act like somebody just didn't think
what I was saying, or to say what I just
was thinking in the earlier conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:17:19):
So that was that was very hard for me.

Speaker 1 (01:17:22):
But you also learn if you ever go back and
watch yourself, they don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
No, no, they don't you know you know.

Speaker 3 (01:17:33):
But they never know.

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:17:35):
Yeah, So even when you pan it, if you just
start talking about something, you know what I mean, like
and get.

Speaker 3 (01:17:43):
It back to somebody else because on.

Speaker 1 (01:17:46):
The other side of the camera, they never know, they
never know that we messed up that to me. That's
what I love about live TV is that you don't
know what's going to happen, like something happening and it's
really funny. And next you know, we're supposed to talk
about text day now, but we're not.

Speaker 3 (01:18:01):
I don't even care about text.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
So the year I had, for fifteen years, I had
always had to do a Tuesday press conference. In a
press conference, when you do a Tuesday press conference is
it's always okay, So you give he starts at twelve
and it goes to about like twelve forty, so you
have like forty minutes. Well the first ten minutes like
you're giving an injury report and you're going to talk

(01:18:23):
about the opponent, and then you open up for questions.
So when I ask a question, if you just answer,
not even the question, but just you know what the
narratives you aren't trying to put out there, and like
when it's gotten done and you said, don't I answer
that question, are going like no, we thank you for
what you just said, Like okay, So like I don't
even care what you're gonna ask me.

Speaker 3 (01:18:43):
I know what I'm going to say that part.

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
I have a probably of like two or three nuggets
that I want to get out there because sometimes it's
the message I want to give my team. Yeah, like
you know, like I know, we've won three in a row,
but if we continue to play the way we're playing
on offense right now, we could lose four in a row.
And I said, defensively, we've been lucky. You don't realize that,

(01:19:06):
you don't see it, but we've missed a lot of
the defensive assignments right now. We just been fortunate that
the offense has not been able to capitalize on that.
So we're really not even playing very good on defense either.
So I just wanted to make sure our team understood
we're three and oh And I just said we're terrible
on offense and we're not very good on defense, but
we're three and oh. So just just to make sure

(01:19:27):
that you don't get caught up and just like being
taking yourself too seriously, Yep, don't beat yourself up when
it's bad, because I probably praise you and say, well,
you know, we may have legs of this game, but
we're really close to being a good winning team. It's
like a seesaw. When you're up, I'm gonna bring you down.
And when you're done, I'm gonna bring you up. So
my job was to keep that Seesaw even keel with
the emotional element of the game so good.

Speaker 3 (01:19:51):
That's like a real spoken head coach.

Speaker 1 (01:19:52):
That's I wish more aau parents heard that could could
channel the Seesaw efect all right.

Speaker 3 (01:19:59):
When they're now, there's no reason to kick them. You know.
I would hear that from Nick Saban all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:20:03):
He's like, the biggest problem with fans is that you know,
they feel bad. He's like, you don't feel any worse
than the players. The players feel way worse because of
everything they put into So when they're down or when
you're down, trust me, they're even worse. And so that's
when he would come in and love on them. And
when you're high, you're like, nah, you got to knock
him back down. Got a humble all the time, and

(01:20:26):
so it's just a really cool thing. And then when
you're on Just Live TV, dude, it's it is hilarious
because of the mistakes that happen and the things when
things go out of order, or sometimes somebody says I'm hilarious.

Speaker 3 (01:20:40):
Or you forget what you were going to talk about.

Speaker 1 (01:20:43):
You know, I got three order of three and I
can't remember two of them.

Speaker 3 (01:20:48):
And the person in your try to and you just
give this just during.

Speaker 4 (01:20:51):
Headlights to the person talking in the was the RFV.
Just don't stay there's someone talking, would you say online?

Speaker 3 (01:20:58):
Don't be no, But.

Speaker 1 (01:20:59):
You give the deer in headlights look like and they're like, hey,
you're supposed to. Like okay, y'all got it, And so
I'm sure that happens, dude, that.

Speaker 4 (01:21:06):
I don't do what I I did a live hit
one time when I was with Fox and I somehow
zoned out thinking about something and I don't know where
my eighty eighth kicked in and I was like looking
at something.

Speaker 3 (01:21:21):
It's like, yeah, what do you think, Charles?

Speaker 4 (01:21:22):
And I was like, huh oh yeah, the Denver Steelers
and the Oakland Bears.

Speaker 3 (01:21:32):
Yeah, I think it's gonna be a good game. And
in my mind, I was like I messed up. I
totally messed up, messing up. And then after we were done,
straight hand was like, bro, what happened?

Speaker 4 (01:21:43):
I was like, Pani, I don't know what to say, pan,
and he was like, man, look next time, take a
deep breath.

Speaker 3 (01:21:51):
Yes, make fun of yourself. People love it when you
make fun of yourself.

Speaker 4 (01:21:55):
He's like, I mess up all the time, Terry brash
Shaw messing up all the time. We just make fun
of ourselves.

Speaker 3 (01:22:00):
They love it. You should have said, don't do what
you just did, though, don't ever do that. You should
have just said, I forgot what I was going.

Speaker 1 (01:22:06):
To say, and they love that. Yeah, you know, I
forgot what I was about to say. And then somebody
get your air help. So yes, that's what I told.
That was my welcome to a live TV moment. It
was terrible.

Speaker 2 (01:22:20):
This is my nineteenth year.

Speaker 3 (01:22:22):
Oh wow, nineteen blown by. It has gone by fast.
We'll be back in a minute. Coach, what is it?

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:22:34):
We had Nate bur listen on here and he's been
inspiring to a lot of people, former players that have
gotten into the TV. And now he's doing the morning
show he as is with you guys, And what's it
been like working with him?

Speaker 2 (01:22:47):
Nate's been great. So I remember Nate from Thursday Night Football,
So Thursday Night Football we first started it. It was me,
Dion and James Brown, so we.

Speaker 3 (01:22:56):
Did all the first two around. Made it awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
JB. I've been the CBS nineteen years. JB. He's been
there for twenty years, so we've been I've been got
with JB for like nineteen years and JB is the best. Yes,
And we did with Dion and and Nate was with
NFL Network at the time, so I got to know
him a little bit there. And then you know, they
went through a number of people. You know, Shannon stepped on,

(01:23:20):
Bart Scott stepped in, and then Boomer was there for
a while, and now Matt stepped in, and then Phil
sim stepped in for Dan Mareno, he was there for
a while. So so it was it's been a bunch
of guys that have been there, and but Nate is
Nate is great, and you know he is he brings
us really special energy about him and he's got you know,

(01:23:43):
he's got so many things going on with the news.
He's doing that. Yeah, and but I I I love
Nate so much, respectful him. His kids are now both
at Nevada Areno and kind of where he went to
school and and his wife met there. So he's he's
in a great place. He's a good guy. Just he's
you know, got a great family and you know he's

(01:24:04):
it's just it's just fun to come in there every
Sunday with these guys and to work with these guys,
it's it's it's a joy.

Speaker 4 (01:24:11):
This is something that we ask a lot of our
our guests on them on the podcast Very Successful Career,
uh TV Broadcasting Player Coaching. If you could pick four
people on Mount Rushmore who have helped you and shaped
you and mold you into being the man that you
are today, who would those four people be?

Speaker 2 (01:24:35):
My father, Marty Schottenheimer.

Speaker 3 (01:24:38):
Why Why your dad? Why? Pops?

Speaker 2 (01:24:43):
My dad? My dad was tough, but it was fair,
pushed me, challenge me, big, was always supportive. He put
me on a bunch of different camps, and he was
always there. He was always there and I never wanted
to disappoint him or make a mad so he if

(01:25:06):
I was going down a bad path, I always used
to think about man my dad found out he's it's
not going to be good. So him. Marty Schottenheimer, he
coached me, give me the chances as a as a
coach to get into be an assistant coach. He didn't

(01:25:26):
have to. I had no coaching experience whatsoever. He saw
something to me that I didn't even see, and he
just was He was a mentor big time. To me,
it's you only when I ever coached under as a
defensive back coach, as a special teams coach, as a coordinator.
Dan Rooney going here thirty four years old, a young buck,

(01:25:47):
and after my fifteen years, I left there a better
person as a father, as as a leader. And it's
probably not a person but the players of football that

(01:26:07):
I've been around, because they have challenged me. I've looked
up to it. I've watched the great ones have meltdowns.
I've watched the underdogs who are free agents make the team.
I've watched them become young, become from players to fathers,

(01:26:28):
watching guys, being with the guys for ten years and
watching them come in there as young rookies with free
time and not married and all of a sudden having
three kids and being mature and being a leader. Yeah,
and just my boys at work, my boys at work
because I had three daughters, and my boys at work
like the I I love pushing them. I wonder if

(01:26:51):
I always used to wonder, what would I be that
way as a father, Because I wanted to make them uncomfortable,
but I also wanted to love them, and I also
wanted up, be there and when they had their time
to know that. I pushed you to be as good
as you could be because I made you tougher, I
made you resilient, I made you to be Take everything
you did and look where it's gotten you. And at

(01:27:12):
the same time, it's what you do. It's not who
you are when you walk across those lines. Turn it
on when you walk off that line. Have some humility
about you. It's not who you are, it's just what
you do. No one should know who you are. I
was a soft father. I was a tough coach, but

(01:27:33):
be able to have that ability to be able to
do something on that field and that platform that made
you special, and when you came off of it, have
the humility, have the respect, have the leadership, and be
able to share that commitment, that passion, that ability to
make the sacrifice is to commit yourself to being very

(01:27:54):
good at a craft or whatever that may be, and
share that and have that balance in life where you
have compassion and you have passion. You know compassion and passion,
you know compassion for the people you're around, and passion
for whatever you're doing. And to me, I got that

(01:28:17):
with football. I got that in that locker room. I
get that today, still being able to do these broadcasts
and talking to two guys that I respected tremendously and
watch you both play and to this day, just to
see where you are right now in your forties, and
it's just it's like I said, we can talk for
another three hours if you want, But I said, because

(01:28:39):
I just have so much respect for you guys have
made the next transition and whatever we can do to
help others as I leave here and go into this
Hall of Fame thing. They're great players on the field.
How you doing now? How you doing now? What can
we do to help you become a better person?

Speaker 4 (01:29:00):
No, I like that, but just I'm in my forties.
He's like, fifty something. I'm just fifty something. Sounded great.

Speaker 3 (01:29:10):
I couldn't. I couldn't help it. Clear I couldn't help, Lily,
that was it was so great, it was so good.
You couldn't.

Speaker 4 (01:29:17):
But as soon as he said it for I was like,
you fifty something, I couldn't help.

Speaker 3 (01:29:23):
But I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (01:29:24):
I'm clearly I'm doing We're gonna stop, we will stop
talking about your age.

Speaker 1 (01:29:31):
Yeah, I'm just he set it up. Sorry, it's his
ball mine, it's his fall now mine. Coach man, thank you.
You are everything that I thought you were and more
growing up watching you roll the sidelines when I was
in Prattville, Alabama, watching TV and loving the NFL game

(01:29:52):
uh and being a big Pittsburgh Steelers fan growing up
and uh and man, this is really really cool and
I'm taking those nuggets with me. I want to be
more compassionate as a father, as a husband, but never
lose my passion that the game instilled in me and
knowing what it is when we go in between the

(01:30:14):
white lines, the person we got to be. And you
know that's when I'm at work, when I do anything athletic,
or when I'm in this coaching room with my kids
or around the game. I'll never lose my passion. And
you just let me know it's okay, because I have
to have both sides of it and have the compassion
when I'm out of it to be able to love

(01:30:35):
on them, to be a soft dad, but a tough
coach and a tough father too when I need to be.
And you know, I just want you to know that's
the one thing that I missed the moch about any
locker room or when I get around you guys, it
really just puts me in my back in my place,
including up and others, that it's okay. And I don't

(01:30:56):
think enough of us get to hear that from each
other that we got to hear all the time, and
we come in in that locker room that what I'm
going through When you're arguing at home or the rough
times that you have, sometimes it's okay because you're not
the only one, and all we do is help lean
on each other and show each other how to do
it just a little bit better. And so I appreciate
that for you being you and sharing your story and

(01:31:19):
really your your passion for what you do. It doesn't
it hasn't changed. And I appreciate the mug, the everything
that you exactly who memories in my life though that.

Speaker 2 (01:31:36):
I watched that.

Speaker 4 (01:31:38):
I just want to say, when you were talking earlier,
you were talking about special teams, like you have that
innate ability to just command attention, you know, And as
you were talking, I was just like getting fired up,
like I feel like playing I can hit somebody right now.
You just you have that ability, and that is ah,
it's special, it's special. It's a special ability that you

(01:32:00):
can walk into a room and you don't have to yield,
you don't have to say hey, everyone, listen up. It's
it's just that you're a very subtle, general, self spoken
man who who has this presence this area about himself.
And thank you. I see that. I respect that, I
see it giving you your flowers.

Speaker 3 (01:32:17):
Everything that room.

Speaker 4 (01:32:17):
Said plus what I said, I can't thank you enough
for coming to this podcast and this was truly truly
a treat.

Speaker 2 (01:32:24):
Well, thank you, guys. Honestly, I thank you for what
you're doing and bringing awareness out there to everybody about
continuing to grow and have growth in your own personal
life and what you're doing. And that's okay to to
to pivot in life at times and try something new
and you know, and have a passion for it and
just con always have a backup plan, right yeah, So

(01:32:45):
I said, you know, it's like we always have a bout,
have a backup plan in football if somebody goes down,
have a backup plan in life. Absolutely. It's kind of
like one of the things to me is and surround
yourself with good people. And like I said, like I
consider and talk to you guys because it's where you
guys are clearly in a good space because you we're

(01:33:07):
talking about it r you know, and we're we're we're
kind of enjoying talking about and I suppose it somewhere.
Sometimes if you're not a good place, you could start
to take it a little personal and it might get
a little sensitive and you're not as comfortable to talk
about tough subjects, which is mental health. It's about all
those things that we need to make sure that we're

(01:33:28):
always there for other people. For great leaders are great listeners,
and so I've always enjoyed listening to you guys.

Speaker 1 (01:33:35):
I appreciate that, and I'm definitely gonna I might have
to use that Christopher Columbus. Yeah, with the one of
these AAU teams them going.

Speaker 2 (01:33:43):
They said, tell me there's something we can't do. We
didn't even get seated in this tournament. We end up
doing playing playing can't win championships.

Speaker 3 (01:33:52):
Oh yeah, I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:33:55):
Hey, look when my Super Bowl team Nobody had lost
three games going into the playoffs and still won the
Super Bowl. That's all I had to do is tell
us you couldn't do it. Next, you know, there we go.
Man appreciated coach man, for all of our listeners and
viewers out there, wherever.

Speaker 3 (01:34:15):
You pick up your podcast, Man, this is a.

Speaker 1 (01:34:17):
Beautiful, spectacular, amazing, spectacular job. Wherever you pick up your podcast,
where this Apple podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:34:24):
iHeartRadio app Man.

Speaker 1 (01:34:26):
Make sure you hit like, subscribe, leave a couple of comments,
make sure you check us out on the NFL pages
YouTube channel. Peanut. Man, I don't even want you to
get us up out here, but I know we gotta go.

Speaker 4 (01:34:37):
Yeah yeah, I'm basically all I'm saying is on Peanut
that's Roman as coach and this is the NFL Player's
Second Acts podcast and we out cut

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Charles “Peanut” Tillman

Roman Harper

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The Herd with Colin Cowherd

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Bill Cowher: Why Steelers football is different, the famous angry face, leading with compassion