September 17, 2025 • 45 mins
Dallas Cowboys legend Darren Woodson joins Peanut Tillman and Roman Harper on the latest NFL Players: Second Acts episode for a candid conversation about his life on and off the field. Woodson shares his “welcome to the NFL” moment, what it was like covering Michael Irvin in practice, and why he never left Dallas during his entire career. He opens up about Jimmy Johnson’s shocking exit, the transition to Barry Switzer, and why he thinks the Cowboys haven’t captured another Super Bowl since the dynasty days. Woodson also weighs in on Dak Prescott’s work ethic, the infamous T.O. fight, and his party days at Humperdinks. Plus, he talks about his post-football career at ESPN, his Hall of Fame hopes, and the personal Mount Rushmore that shaped his life.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You've talked about some really good times, and I want
you to draw this picture for me because I have
no idea what it is. But when I say a word,
you tell me and I'll probably be able to pick
think a little bit.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Just by the facial expression. But humperdinks, we got we
got black. That out, you got dark, we got dark.
Those are some single moments. So this is my experience
as well. So my first.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Seven a minute you know about because we do our
research research here.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
We are professional.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
We haven't nobody the Internet.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
We are a professor Google machine Hot.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
He's on the hot seats. So what's up, everybody. I'm
Peanut Toman and this this is the NFL Players Second
Act podcast and with me, as always my trusty co host,
my work wife, Roman Harper. What's up?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
What's up baby? I appreciate the nicknames. Early.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I'm really excited about this, this sex episode. Who he
got as our guests, I mean, everybody will know exactly
who he is. He's a great representative of the state
of Texas and the Dallas Cowboys itself. And whenever you
get all DB's in the room, it's gonna be a
great all love yea, yeah, all right, go ahead, introduce
all right, this next guest, This next gentleman U.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Three time Super Bowl champion, five time Pro bowler. He's
in a Dallas Cowboys Ring of honor. He's a tech entrepreneur,
real estate mogul.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
He just came from the office. He just came from
the office. Ladies and gentlemen, please walk up to the pod.
Mister Darren, what's yeah, walk up to the pot.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Appreciate it. Appreciate me in here. Man, I'm good to
see you on Dallas.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Yeah, say it all the way down in Texas. I'm
from the central part of the state, from coppers Co, Temple, Waco.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah, Helena, Yeah yeah, used to be far from here,
on the way to Austin.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
On the way to Austin. Absolutely all my peoples is
up in Sherman and Gainesville.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah yeah. Did you see anybody you know you got
off that plane win yesterday? Yeah? Yeah. The family, the
family tonight. I'm okay tonight, I'm doing like old Fantom,
flying without telling anybody.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Can do that. Dave, my aunt is gonna be mad
at me. So I'm I'm doing dinner tonight. He's going golfing. Yes,
I'm doing dinner with the family.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Knight. Strike that from the record, though my wife does
not know that. No, you're going golf the record, She
didn't bigger ass golf club. No, no, no, she was.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Dropping the kids off and I got to play as
I booked my flights. Everything is around that, everything is
around that never strike, that never never rest. It's war mentality.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Oh my god, you're terrible.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
So I want to get this thing started off right now.
So you are second as the Dallas Cowboys all time
tackler or not all time? So your second one? Sports
teams tackles, yes, first all time? First uh in tackles
and tackles second all time?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
And special teams.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Always bring this up thirteen years eleven years. Yeah, I
played sports teams my entire career.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, got to. Yes, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
The more you can do, the more to help your
team because.
Speaker 5 (03:26):
The team players, right, Yeah, of course you got us.
This damn devo divo over here. He ain't played a
damn special team, not one. No like team return nothing,
definitely not punt return. I'm like, bro, I'm not blocking nobody.
I did do kick offf like some safety work.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
But you know that's like that.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Oh yeah, count, that don't count.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I'm not the field guy. I'm not. You never ran
L five or five none, nothing, huh.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
And he's a thumper.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I wouldn't. That is amazing. That wouldn't never have imagined
the harp that you had never played special. That's like,
that's unheard of.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
They never asked me to as a rookie. They I
was doing no special teams. Uh, they were just trying
to let me play. And then second year they kind
of got me in a little bit and I would
practice some PP but like I never played in the game,
like it was never And I always laughed because he
always laughs and says all these things.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
I'm like overrated.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Almost every one of Devin Harris's punt returns like us
me running the same way.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I just saw a video the other day of Beyond
Return and one in New York, and I see myself
acting like I was trying to forget some But that's
that was my entire life. I walked in the door. Here,
I was on all four. I was on kickoff return,
kickoff return, kickoff, punt return. I held up on the
outside on a punt return. You're a four core guy,
(04:58):
all of it, ye my ass. And the reason why
I have twelve surgeries is because and that's the reason
I'm serious. I'd say about least half of my surgeries
came in from a Special Teams play. Didn't see someone
someone cut me from behind on the side, my own
player broke my arm. You know, I had some friendly
fire all the time. Like I mean, it's because it's movings.
(05:21):
Everything's moving so fast that and the collisions are that
much greater. Those are the reasons why. That's when the
Special Teams was real.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
And I would also say one thing about Special Teams,
and you guys can probably attest to this, and I'm
a victim of it, is that if you don't do
it early, you can't just all your seven eight and
hit the switch. I'm gonna be a Special Teams guy. No,
I don't work that way. You got to come in
doing this, so you get to understand it. And we
didn't have a choice. There was no choice in them.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
We came in. Joey avazonal Rest in Peace was our
Special Teams coach, was a great Special Teams coach. Jimmy
Johnson was a head coach. Jimmy was in every Special
teams meeting every day, and sometimes it make the entire
team come in and watch. Specially and on a Monday
morning after a Sunday game, please, everybody's watching. Turn those
(06:08):
lights off, Troy, and everybody's in that special teams meeting
watching you run down the field, and dude, he would
control the Jimmy would control the tape after a loss.
He used to call it red ass meetings on special
team's day. Don't run down the field, find yourself. I
used to be in games at L four thinking, dude,
I gotta get off this. I better not be the
(06:28):
last one. It was a sprint down the field and
all of them were return back then as well. Oh yeah,
you getting hit from the side, they setting you up
all the wedge. Yeah, I was trying to.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
So you're you're talking about all these hits and collisions.
We'd like to know everybody else's in. We all have
our own. But what was your first welcome to the
NFL moment?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Uh? First welcome to the NFL moment, I would say
was training camp and we used to do one on
one so I was I have a backstory. My backstory
is I was at Arizona State. I was what they
call a tweener. I was basically, you're a smaller linebacker.
I was like the rover back played a little linebacker
did play. We did. Lovey Smith was my position coach.
(07:12):
A lovey used to become. I can't call him lovey.
Coach Smith used to always have me playing multiple positions.
I'd played lineup at safety. Sometimes I'd covered the slot receiver.
He taught me how to do all these things right,
but I'd never been on that autobond back on the outside,
like I that's a little different. Right. So I get
here my first year and we're going through many camps
(07:35):
and we're not you know, nothing's really going on. We're
doing some one on ones, but just mostly with the
rookies and all that. And then the veterans. We get
the training camp. All the veterans are in and my
first time one on ones, eighty eight walked up and
I had to cover him the first time, and it
was like it was that moment like, Okay, I've been
watching you know, if you if you didn't know Mike
(07:56):
back then it's I'm about to run, you know. He
just barking and it's a crowd. There's an audience, right
because our training camps were packed and you had, you know,
twenty some thousand people in the stands, and he just,
you know, he just going at it and I can't
believe you put him out here like he's talking to
me right. And I think that was my wake up
(08:18):
moment to be like, Okay, I'm out here on the
outside one on one with Michael Irvin and he ran
an out. I jumped out, made a good play on
the ball, and I was like, yeah, I can do it.
I can do this. Now. This is you know, Mike
couldn't run anyway, but Mike was strong and fast. But
you know, it was one of those days where that
was that was my wake up moment to to the NFL.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
Yeah, that's cool, I know for I think for me,
I just assumed that I would always be in Chicago
my entire career. I know, you're a Saints Hall of
Famer and you played for another team. I played for
one other team. How does it feel that knowing that
you were in Dallas your entire career and just played
(09:01):
for one team.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yeah. I never experienced free agency. Yeah, I never got
to free agency. I was always you know, we always
got signed up before we got there. I think the
closest I was over there was like a month before
free agency. Yeah, and you know, they they found a
way to get me locked up early. You know, I
couldn't see myself playing anywhere else. And I say that
because I'm so ingrained in the community here, Like I
(09:25):
have four kids, all in school. I've been I mean,
I'm on the Make a Wish Foundation board, the C
five Texas board. Today, I've been on Salvation Army. You know,
I've been so ingrained in this community that I don't
I never even thought about leaving, Like I don't know
what it would feel like to see. And I've saw teammates,
(09:48):
coaches packing up, leaving, going somewhere else, taking their kids.
And that's the thing we don't understand that we don't
see in this sport, right, is that the true fan
doesn't really see the behind the scenes. And a head
coach loses or a position coach loses his job, He's
go take his babies out of school. Yep, they got friends,
he's tied to the church. You know, there's so many
(10:10):
little small integral things that that that now they have
to get up and move. And now they're moving to
Green Bay kids are in another school third fourth grade
and great, and I just never had to experience that. Man,
I've been blessed. I mean, I'll tell you now, I've
been extremely blessed to just be on this team, staying
in this community. Yeah, that's that's cool.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
So you talked about that, and you talked about your
teammates leaving and coaches leaving.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I mean, you were the last one of the dynasty.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
At one point where it was like you and Irvin
without the mainstays. You were the last one out of
everybody the OG. So what was that locker room dynamic
like thing did you see? I know, you saw the change,
the change from when you first got in, when you
were the young guy to all of a sudden, now
you're the old guy and you don't have the same
party that you have before.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, and not only that personnel changed, you know, the
coach his staff started to change. I wanted I was
the only one that went through five coaches and that
I ain't proud of that because you know what happens
when you're going through coaches lost games. So when I
first came in, Jimmy Johnson was my head coach, and
Jimmy did everything. He ran personnel, so cut players, brought
(11:17):
players in, drafted them, did everything, rock coaches in. That
was all Jimmy. Jerry was overseeing at the top. It
was base Jerry was basically being a young new owner.
He had lawsuits with the league he was dealing with,
he was bringing in sponsors.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
He was the only one with absolute everybody else everybody
else so that.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
The league was suing him at the times. He wasn't
involved that much, involved on the day to day. So
that was all Jimmy. So the personnel, you kind of
knew what the personnel was gonna look like. Jimmy wanted
alpha dogs that were going to compete. I mean, you
didn't have to be the most talented to do but
you better love this game because he was gonna test
that metal to see if you you know how much
you really cared about the game. But that personnel was
(12:01):
from ninety two. Jimmy got fired after the second Super Bowl,
which is ridiculous, but it's crazy. I don't even go there.
And then we brought it yeah, which is crazy. Man.
I was in Phoenix at the time we had won
the second Super Bowl. I've be in Phoenix. I'm gonna
go ahead and tell the story. Let me go. So I'm
(12:21):
in Phoenix and with my family and watching, and back
then we didn't have like social media. It was just
you found out on the news, right, And nor did
we have like the regular old cell phone where you
just called me up on the cell phone and just
like the landline rang. My buddy Kevin Smith called me.
Who Pup you guys probably know. Pup called me. He
(12:42):
was the corner on the team. He said, you watching
the news. I said, what news? You know that just fired?
He just said it that way, but it has fired Jimmy.
I said, there ain't no way. So I'm turning, can't
find it on time. I got him. I'm on the lawn.
I'm on the landline phone at my mom's house. I
got my hand on his long cord. I'm trying to
find the news channel.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
No one's talking about it, yeah, because it didn't had
any hit out there.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Right, And and so I'm talking. I'm still talking to him,
says man, I'm serious. They just fired Jimmy. And it wasn't.
But maybe an hour later, I've turned on the news
and I'm seeing Michael Irvin in the locker room. Throwing
the garbage can. I don't know if you guys remember
all this. You guys probably too young for this, but
he's throwing the garbage can. He's all pissed off. Reporters
(13:29):
are all over the place, and I'm seeing this and
then you know, Phoenix news stations, as you know, Jimmy
Johnson has just been fired for the Dallas Cowboys and
blew me away. Man, It's just because we were in
a moment and we just won back to back. Everybody's
coming back under contract. The mindset was we won the second.
(13:50):
When we were on the bus going to the airport
the next day, we partied really hard after that game,
right Atlanta was you know special. We were on the
bus going back to the airport and I remember everybody saying, Okay,
we're gonna get three and we're gonna get four, like
we were thinking more of not just the three people,
but it was this was a dynasty that was in place.
(14:14):
And then Jimmy got fired, and I think it was
just everything just went just went away. The mindset went away.
Barry Switzer loved Barry. Barry came in, but it was
all of Jimmy's coaches. It was you know, you had
to all of the Jimmy staff and you just plugged
Barry in. They were all there was all this in
fighting because all those coaches wanted the job. So you
(14:35):
can imagine how tumultuous the locker room was. We were.
There's a lot of alpha dogs on that team, and
Jimmy did a good job of controlling us and making
sure we were you know, you were biting the right
person that was gone. So the prisoner started running the
asylum and it just got worse and over the years,
you know, we ended up going to the NFC Championship Game,
(14:58):
losing to San Francisco. The following year when winning the
Super Bowl, had no idea how that happened. You guys
were talented, Yeah there was talent, man, but we were
I was I'll say this, I'll say this. The league
wasn't that good that year. Okay, there's no way we
should that team. I look at that team, our last team,
(15:18):
when that's the last Super Bowl. I'm like, man, our
first team to beat the dog piss out of that team.
Really not even close. It wasn't even close. And that
was the year that Dion was on the team. In
ninety five, or whatnot. Our ninety two ninety three teams
were much stronger than our ninety five team and and
then after that it was a free fall. Personnel coming
in was terrible. I mean, we couldn't get guys that
(15:40):
were drafted in the first second round to play Pete.
I'm looking at you, play special teams, right. We couldn't
get it. Just think about it, your first second round pick.
They couldn't even make the special teams roster. They couldn't
do all the little things. So the first second, third
round guys were just now we were missing. We kept on,
we continued to miss. We had an opportunity to take
(16:01):
Randy Moss, we didn't take him. He sat imagine in
the Dallas Yeah. So the personnel scouting was was a mess.
And I'm not gonna blame all the guys because it's
you know, it's aulation of that. But we weren't the
same outfit and never were pretty much through the rest
of my time until Bill Parcells came in and I
(16:23):
had gone three straight years of five and eleven, five
and eleven. I wanted to get traded. I wanted to
get up out of here because it was it was terrible. Man,
it was really bad. Parcels came in, same team, same quarterback,
same personnel. We go from five to eleven, he comes
in ten and six in the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
To me, that just go that everything you just said.
The one thing I can think of is just leadership.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, how important.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
It is to bring in the right leader to lead
all these alphas. Yeah, you know, and it's not really
I don't want to work controlling, but just leading them
in the right now direction.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yeah, you know, like we don't need.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
To fight each other, keep that energy, keep that same fight,
keep that dog. But I want it going here. I
want you to go there. I want you to go there. Hey, coaches,
I need you to go this. I need you know,
Like that's yeah leadership.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, and we got relaxed. We got really relaxed around here.
And I think it was that time and even today.
I mean, it's been since nineteen ninety five that this
organization has won a Super Bowl. But it's been a
mindset that has pretty much been the same mindset until
until I'm telling you, until Parcels came in and he
had this nice little run there, they didn't win the championship. Right,
(17:35):
there was an accountability he held the team accountable.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
The standard is a stand.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Absolutely, if he had the t if he had the
right personnel, he won a super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
So you said something, and that's exactly where all the
Dallas Cowboy fans want to know. And since I got
one here, I'm going to ask him because one of
my best friends is a huge Cowboy fan, not as
big as he used to be, but still big. Hearing
a lot of that, you know, So you have grown
adult Cowboys fans that have never seen this, all the
success and Super Bowls that we all brag about as
(18:04):
Cowboy fans. I'm not one of them, but I'm trying.
I'm trying to make everybody inclusive. That's right and so
and so understanding that what is missing because it's not talent.
You guys have had Hall of fame. The talent has
been an abundance for the Cowboys. Not only do they drafted,
(18:24):
but they acquire it and however they get it. So
it's not the talent. What is it that's missing that
in your opinion? And I'm gonna ask other Cowboys players,
formers that I could I get to sit in front of,
But what is that that's been missing in your opinion.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
I don't know. Honestly, I don't think anyone knows because
you just said it. I mean, the talent has been Theres,
the Marcus where you had you know a lot of
you know, I can't tell you how great that offensive
line was for a long time t O was here.
I mean, they had a run where talent was plentiful.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Trespis is gonna be Hall of fame, absolutely on both
sides of the ball, Martin up front us they've had guys.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah, I don't know. It's I can't. I can't. I
can't put my finger on it. One. I'm not in
the locker room anymore. So for anyone that's saying, well,
you know this, you know the team, Yeah, you don't
know the team, even if you played in that organization,
If you're not in that locker room every day, you
just don't know the man, You just don't. Can't. I
can watch them, watch them on film sometimes or on
(19:28):
TV or on film and just think, man like they
are so close. But there's there's, you know, the whole
mindset that you think that this is old school. Now,
this is really old school. You don't win championships in
the playoffs like you just don't get in the playoffs
and you just win that championship. Like it starts wairly,
it starts in March April, when there is a true
(19:51):
belief that us three hey dog were coming in to
work out every day. We're gonna watch film on third
and this is how I came in. We're watching film
in the off season on us breaking down our old
film and seeing, okay, damn, we were weaking this this
cover four man, and we got to do better. We're
we're doing those little things. I don't think that's a
(20:12):
process that they these guys go through anymore. I don't
think it's a process of looking back at the year
back and looking at yourself and being critical of your plate.
Am I running into the ball? Am I giving one effort?
Am I lined up the right way? Am I reading this?
You know? Am I reading my keys and doing all?
Am I studying the right way? Like there's no there's
(20:34):
I don't think that's a mindset of this organization. I
think this organization is where the Dallas Cowboys. It's a
nice star on the helmet. Jimmy Johnson used to say,
we used to this was like the like some kind
of golf club. You know, the atmosphere is like very casual.
You can't be casual and expect to win championship. Y'
all know this. You know what this feels like. You
(20:55):
know what it feels like. I mean, there's some ups
and downs in order to be a championship team. There's
going to be disruption along the way. You're not going
like each other all the time. There's gonna be some
some days that you're gonna have to fight through. Some
days you're gonna want to complain about how many days
we've been out here in pads and we're doing this
and this, and the coaches got us doing this or not. Hey,
someone's gotta step and say shut up, let's get out
(21:16):
here and get this work in right, that's not the
mentality here. There's one guy that you look at right now,
and it's number four. Yeah, and I look out here.
I'm office right here on the third floor, and I
watched number four whether he wins championship. So he doesn't
win championships. I watch him throw to the fifteenth receiver
(21:37):
on the team on hot days by himself out here throwing.
So I know he has the workout it, but i'd
love to see CD. I'd love to see some other
guys in the off season that our starters be out
here with him throwing instead of going back home. Like
that's the problem.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Not only that, but they're gonna bring somebody else with
him exactly. That's how you really get better. And I
talked to New Orleans and I'll be candid. One thing
that they really struggle with is like the team doesn't
watch film together when when when they're not under the coaches,
they're not together watching film to see lifestyle. Man, I
(22:16):
know how I see it, and they don't watch film
together unless the coach is there. A lot of these
teams are struggling with the younger players now they don't
just they're not together. So you may see it one way,
but how does he see it? Then how do we
see it together?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Exactly?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
So that's how we ultimately under can't tell And that
is a big deal.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Football used to be a lifestyle to us, like this
this was what you did right, So again in the
off even during the season, we was to have these
pizza call pizza days. Ken Norton I first came in
the league. Ken Norton was the leader as defense. He
used to have what we call pizza days. That was
at six o'clock on Thursdays. On Wednesdays and Thursdays, so
we would order in pizza, no coach, six o'clock. We're
(23:01):
all as a defense, were watching film just so we
speak the same language, the entire defense from six to eight.
And then you went home, like we spent more time,
and I'm sure y'all did the same thing. We spent
more time with my teammates and I did with my
own family, and that was a part of it. But
it was a lifestyle. It was an understanding of this
(23:22):
is what you do. Show. Yeah, I show up on Sunday.
I don't wrap, I don't I'm not a roofer, I
ain't a doctor. I don't play the guitar on weekends.
What do you do? I play football. That's my job.
And I don't know if that's the mentality anymore. And
I don't know if that's just the Cowboys organization. That's
across it's across the league. But if you want to
get back to a championship mentality, it don't doesn't start
(23:46):
when the season starts. It starts in the off season
and breaking down things and taking a hard look at yourself. Yeah,
I agree with that.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
I want to I want to ask you about the
what's your recollection of that? That to fight Dallas versus
the forty nine Ers. I know you had got ejected.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
I got ejected, So I don't remember a few minutes earlier.
Uh t O.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
He gets the ball, runs, puts it on the star.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
I'm a forty nine Ers fan, so I was excited about,
Oh my god, Jesus this, you.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Know, this rivalry matchup. I loved it all.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
So you didn't watch it in the locker room or you.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Know, I got kicked out of the game. So look,
I was looking to get kicked out kind of like
I was. I was looking for a fight. We were
getting our asses thumped, right, and I made a tackle
and I was on the ground and no one stepped
on me. Newberry and that was it was that Newberry. Okay,
So he stepped on me, and I didn't know what
(24:42):
the next day it was. He kind of got pushed.
He didn't matter, it didn't matter. I just saw whatever
not today. So I'm yelling at him, trying to fight
with him, and then the referee gets in the way
and I kind of bumped the rev. You know, I
just went in on the rep and he I was like,
you know what, I remember, you know what I said.
I remember. I remember the ref saying my name, not Woodson.
(25:06):
He called me by my first name. The referee said, Darren,
your ass is out of here. And for some reason,
that's I was walking up the tunnel. I said, dude
said my first name because most of the time referee,
so you know, heyah, you know Harper, get out of here, right? Yeah? No, no,
he called me my first name. I was like, you
a family friend and you throwing me out of the game,
(25:27):
so you know me somehow. But anyway, so I get
up and I'm in the locker room. I get in
the shower and back then I didn't know. No one
walked me into the locker room. They walked me to
the tunnel and I walked in the locker room. I
never even kicked out of a game. I didn't know
what to do. So I get in a shower and
I'm you know, they have these monitors, but they are
the monitors were the game. It's all the sponsorship this stuff, right, not.
(25:50):
I don't have the game. I don't have access to
the game. So I'm I shower up and I'm dressed,
and all of a sudden, boom, George t walks in
to the locker room and Tiaga and I were the safeties, right,
So Tige walks in. I'm like, what are you doing?
He's so upset, he's so pissed, he can't even talk
to me. I was like horror, I called him, or Hori,
(26:12):
what happened? You worry about it? You get He's throwing
his stuff off. So I'm standing there, I'm waiting for
him to get out of the shower. Ask him again
what happened. He's like, man, I don't want to talk
about it. So we both just left, like I still
in the stadium. We left the stadium. We didn't know
what to do.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
N't even stay after the No, we didn't know what
I mean.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
We were just sitting there like we what we gonna do?
We can't watch the game, we can't walk back down.
We're gonna sit here. So we left went home, and
that's when I saw. When I got home, I saw
the replay of what happened with t O on the
Star and George and the whole I saw it at
(26:54):
sitting on my couch and I watched the replay of it.
That's how I learned about it. Beat the traffic, beat
the traffic, and got cussed out the next day. Dude,
they got us the next day for leaving. But we
didn't know what I'm serious, man, if there was someone
that was a yeah, not a trainer, not an equipment dude,
(27:16):
nobody like within you know, the organization that says, hey,
we need to and we were so we were so bad.
We were just so bad. It was just we needed
to leave that place. Yeah. So you know, first of all,
I love this story.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
I mean, t O was creative too, because he did
a big Star and they said you cannot go out there, so.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Then he went on a little star. It was just
it was like a little brother. The next day, they
asked me, you know you got kicked out earlier. You know,
what would you have done? I was like, dude, look,
I appreciate what George did, but you want to stop
you know, you don't want him doing that. What he's
gonna do, you know, then stop him? Yeah all right,
we didn't have the personnel to stop him, so it
(27:56):
is what it is. Yeah, sucks, and then we bring
him in years later. You know, I can't beat them,
join them.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
So you you've talked about some really good times. And
I want you to draw this picture for me because
I have no idea what it is. But when I
say a word, you tell me and I'll probably be
able to pick think a little bit just by the
facial expression.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
But humperdinks, we got we got black that out, they
got dark, they got dark. Those are some single moments.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
So this is my experience as well. So my first
seven minute.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
You know abouts because we do our research, our research here.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
We are professional.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
We haven't nobody to the Internet.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
We are professor Google machine Hot.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
He's on the hot season.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
My first six or seven years in the league, I
was single as well, and so we won the Super
Bowl and I was a single male.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I had just my homeboys with me in Miami.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
I went to high school with after you win the
super Bowl, so you know what like when you when
you got your boys, And this is what your experience
was early on in your Dallas career. You were it
was a whole bunch of guys that were all single.
Nobody was more single than than married.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Got absolutely total different dynastics, a different lot. And that
was the after right after a game, you got showered up.
You normally didn't even go home most of the time.
You know, you didn't even go You want directly to Humperdinks.
Nobody's paying for drinks. This is no, no, no, this
is and this is just the first stop. Right, Yes,
(29:41):
that was called the landing spot for us. Right, so
everybody humperd Inks and then from Humperdinks. Then we went
and we went as like the entire team, entire team
went to the next spot to paint.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
You want to go to Humperdinks tonight, dude.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
You know, everybody here's you want to do. Everybody here's
I'm down.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Everybody, here's about the quote unquote white House, but nobody
about the humper Dicks.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
About the humper Dicks was the real Yeah, it was.
It was a landing spot after the games. Win like
win games, lost games. Now show your face. That's not happening.
Jimmy finds out your humper Dings after a win, after
a loss, Oh hell will break loose? Okay, I like.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
It, So I want to I want to get into it.
I want to get into the second act.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Right.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
So you retire in two thousand and four, you start
working at ESPN in two thousand and five. What did
you do in between? Did you just sit at home
and just chilled? You get in some golf.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
No. You know what's crazy is that I ended up.
So when I retired, I had like about two or
three weeks and I actually was doing I did this
little roundabout the to NBC, CBS to ESPN. Knew I
was going to do some type of TV, but for
(30:59):
that first year, and I was coming off an injury.
I was coming off of major back injury. I had
nerve damage. I could barely walk. So I was still
trying to rehab that process of trying to you know,
trying to get my quality of life back, and that
took me about four or five months, and then I
went right on into ESPN. It wasn't that. It wasn't
as long as you think it was. It was a
(31:20):
lot shorter. I was on the set of ESPN still
dealing with a major back issue. That's why you're a
little bit shorter now. That's why.
Speaker 4 (31:27):
Yeah, I know you walked in with me.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Between. That's what that is.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
That's funny, that's funny. I do want to ask a
personal thing after your career. You know, you have been
a Hall of Fame finalist the last three years and
you've not been able to get in. Now I give you,
will give you flowers because you are an Arizona State
Sports Hall of Famer. Yeah, you are the State of
Arizona Athletic Hall of Fame as well. So you're in
(32:00):
a couple the main one I know you're shooting for, like,
how does it.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Feel the emotion? Still going through it?
Speaker 1 (32:06):
And also, I don't know if you know this, but
once you get in, which I assume you will, at
some point, you'll be the only.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Person in your whole draft class absolutely, which is crazy, crazy.
I've been that long and nobody else.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
Give me some of the people in your draft class first,
so it'll give people a little bit of context.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
You wouldn't even know most of it. So my guys
that I played with is Kevin Smith, Robert Jones. Remember
Jimmy Smith, the wide receiver. Jimmy was drafted two picks
before me the Cowboys by us, right, I didn't, So
we have four in the first two rounds because you
were part of the Herschel, the Herschel washing Walker trade. Yeah,
(32:48):
my draft pick. I think me and Jimmy were part
of that that those picks. Steve Eman, I think was
the first guy that went that year, Big Defens Linement
out of University of Washington. And then after that, man,
it kind of Dale Carter Corner, Corny Dale was a player,
true player. But after that, man, it gets kind of dark.
(33:10):
Like if you asked me it's ten years ago, I
probably remember the names. And this is the thing. Who's
doing the who's research? Where's research out here? Man? This
is this is a good question.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
Shout out to Thomas producer, he'd be doing this thing
because I didn't know up until like a year ago.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
I had one of the Hall of Fame voters out
of Minnesota says something to me about that draft class.
He said, you would be the only one, and I
it took me back to say, no, there's no way
that ever, so he sent me the list of all
the players and I thought, damn, isn't that that would
(33:53):
be amazing to go in. But you know why I
want to go in, man, this is one of the
reasons why I want to go into the Hall of Fame.
It's because in ninety two, ninety three, ninety four, and
you keep going down for like four or five years,
We were the number one defense in the NFL. We
didn't give up points like it was it was hell
to pay. We had a really good defense. And I
(34:13):
played with guys and outside of Charles Haley, who came
in from the San Francisco forty nine ers, right, Dion
Sanders went from Atlanta to San France and then came here.
Those are the two guys that are in the Hall
of Fame. There's no one that's been ingrained, drafted by
this organization, and most of the players on that defense
(34:34):
were drafted by Jimmy. I would be the only one.
And I want to represent them. Dudes that came in,
I mean the Russell Maryland's, the Tony Toberts, who people
just forget about, Like those are my teammates, the Ken
Norton juniors. You know, there's so many guys, Kevin Spicer,
so many guys that I played with that were so
(34:56):
damn good. Yeah that when I get up there, do
I want to recognize them? Yeah? I mean we had
nine turn We forced nine turnovers in the first Super Bowl.
The first Super Bowl. I didn't know that. Yeah, nine turns.
The game was fifty something, Yeah, seventeen. It was blowout. Yeah,
yeah it was. It got ugly and we we you know,
our defense scored twice in the in the second Super Bowl,
(35:19):
the third Super Bowl, Larry Browns had the two. He
was the super Bowl MVP. True, like we had we
never got. We got recognized as the Triplets, Troy Mike,
and that's how they knew the organization. Man. But damn dude,
I ran down on special teams for a lot of games.
I have more reps than anyone from ninety two to
two thousand and four. That is not a person standing
(35:40):
that has more reps than I am.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
You were a core player on that team. Now, I mean,
I know we we talk about the Triplets, but you're
your quadruple quadrules? Is that what it is before?
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yeah? You you mean I'm about don't do all that count?
Speaker 4 (35:52):
Yeah, baby's born at one time. That's what it means.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
You were.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
You were the quad like this that's safe to say,
Like it's you. You were a huge part of the
success with this organization. I just think it's easy to
sell tickets and put people in the seats when your offense.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Yeah, I always say that.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
Defense wins championships as good as selling tickets.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Exactly, and so you know you did go into the
Ring of Honor here with the cowboys. And I want
to know what comes to mind when you hear somebody
like Jerry Jones say such great spiritual words about you.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
As unselfish, reliable, dependable, a team player first and a
team leader. He's a living, breathing example of what it
is to have great character and to be a Dallas Cowboy.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Yeah. I you know when he said I remember him
saying that. I thought, my mom, that's crazy. I mean,
it's crazy how that seems like I didn't reflect it
and think, Okay, yeah he's talking about me. I'm talking
he's talking about my mama. Dude. I mama raised four
kids by herself, project kids, all of went to high school, graduated,
Me and my sister to graduate from college. Like it
just she worked two jobs five am it was her
(37:05):
first job, got off at four thirty and went to
her second job and got home at eleven o'clock. Like
that's that's character. Like I watched this woman just sacrifice
for us. So I am you know when he's talking
about that, that's that generation down watch my mom and
then my grandmama and all them. But Uh, it's a
(37:26):
reflection of you know, what I've always strived for was
to be someone who represented the right way. And it's
the same thing I want to do with my kids.
I want to pour that into my children the same way.
And how many kids do you have to have? Four? Okay, yeah,
that's the number. That's a great answer for everybody.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
Yeah, yeah, we all got that's just enough to like
me and get four. Tried to he always trying to
be like me. He wors top button, just like one.
You know what I'm saying. Thomas over he do the
same thing.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Yeah, I see everybody representing.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
Yeah, you know, I'm kind of a big try to
like me. But no what that what that being said?
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Though?
Speaker 4 (38:03):
With your mom, I want to ask this question, and
I think I know one of the people Mount Rushmore,
who would be on your personal Mount Rushmore? Of people
of influence from the time you were born till today?
Who would you put four people on your personal.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Week Mount rush My Lord like hes gonna be. He's
got his own mountains, so I can't put him on that. Okay, Okay,
so Mount Rushmore, I would say. My mother wants She
was my she was my role model, my sister Monica
basically raised me. She was you know, I put all
(38:43):
my my brother, my siblings, my brother Todd, he was
a thug though he used to kick my ass off,
I ain't putting his ass up there, so he can't
forget that. So I was the youngest. Yeah, I was
the youngest of four sou but my sister Monica played
a major role in my life, so I got to
put her up there. Muhammad Ali, Man, I remember being
a kid, and y'all are way too young for this,
(39:04):
but I remember being a kid and watching a black
man talk sideways to folks. And you know where I
grew up. You the cops, the white police come in you.
You didn't just talk sideways to people. Man, you you know,
you kind of had this mentality if you try to
avoid the confrontation from being when they come under that,
(39:28):
when they that band walk comes through the the neighborhood,
your ass fleas right, you straighten up. You try to
get it, you know. And to watch Muhammad Ali with
the confidence that he had, the swagger that he had,
and the way he communicated, he just was he was
bigger than big. Like everybody talks about Michael Jordan, a
(39:50):
lot of the kids watching for myself, even cludo. We
talk about Michael Jordan, love Jordan, but as someone who
played a who box or play the sport that really
transitioned not just the sport but outside the sport, like
he was just he was phenomenal man, just phenomenal. And
(40:16):
then the last one, that's a horrid woman I got.
I got a dude that that has been with me forever.
His name is George Bass. He's my agent. And there's
a reason why I own two businesses in his life,
Like I came into the NFL not having any financial background,
(40:37):
not having any pursuit of wanting to do own a business.
That was never my mindset. And I was in my
first my third year in the league, and my agent,
his job was he represented you know a number of athletes,
about six or seven athletes, but his day job was
he's a CFO for a retail development company. And I
(41:02):
used to see him. He used to talk to me
all the time about real estate, and I would spend
time with him, and so when I i'd watch him
and I try to get into some of their investment
deals and he said, no, no, you can't get in
until you learn the business. You cannot invest until you
get learned the business. So I had to take He
made me take down an office space in his office complex,
(41:25):
and in the off season in ninety six, I think
it was ninety five ninety six, in the off season,
I would have to go in there. After I worked out,
I would go in there and I would learn the business.
And it's the reason why I'm sitting right here today.
And I can tell you I think I probably had
more success off the field than I've had on the field,
(41:45):
and it's because of George Paths. So he just pour
it into me. Man, he would be my he would
be that other Mount rushmore God. That really I like that? Yeah,
I like that.
Speaker 4 (41:55):
I got I got one more question for you.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Oh please, I'm gonna fire away too.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
Sin committed complaint, compelled?
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yeah upon that.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
You live your life by these four seeds.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Yeah, I live my life by my core values. My
core values are God and God represents wisdom and knowledge.
So God is one and I usually just look at
her as God is that one, and then my family,
my health, and it's just morals. Morally, where do I
want to fall in any situation? So I'm not going
(42:30):
to get into a real estate a business deal without
it falling within my core values. If it's something that
doesn't fall in my core value, if it's relationships, friends, family,
I measure it all in in that little bucket. If
they don't fall in, they're out. And I'm big, guys,
I'm big on shedding people like in life, like God is.
(42:52):
I mean, certain people aren't yoked for you, right, So
I don't have a problem with shedding folks that don't meet,
that don't fall within my core values. It's just plain
and simple, and that comes from that's from close, close family.
If they're not in, then they're not in. I like that.
(43:13):
You can't ask more questions.
Speaker 4 (43:14):
We gotta wrap all right fast.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
I know, I know, I appreciate you. That was way
too fast. I agree, I agree. We just sat there.
We're gonna come back.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
Not only well, we're gonna have to edit this, but
here right now?
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Is it the corner? Is that? Is that why I'm
getting kicked out? Is that what it is? Don't is
that what it is? Okay, you see what I'm saying
a triplet? Tell tell him and I said, kiss my ass.
Speaker 4 (43:44):
He's probably gonna you gonna see him as he as
he as he walks in. I'm just Hey, I'm just
I'm just a messenger.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Don't shoot the messenger. Yeah, no, we should totally shoot
the messenger, Darren Man.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Bottom line is, bro I hopefully we get to continue
to do this conversation more more. You are being a
hell of a successful person on and off the field.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Your story is amazing.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
You are my new goal guy, because you know, you
did the TV thing, then you went on to be
your own entrepreneur.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
You tech guys.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
You got in early with the right people, being a
good avid listener and learning. You never stopped learning, and
that's been a success story that you will continue to
build upon because of who you are. And so I'm
just really really proud to actually sit down and share
this time with you, allowing you to pour into us
because me and Peanut really enjoy these things. Yes, and
I'm still learning as well, and so it's just been
(44:36):
really really awesome to sit down and have this and
also get some really good stories out.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
I appreciate you, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Our viewers are going to love this, so we're really
gonna be appreciated, man to all of our viewers out
there and listeners Wherever you pick up your podcast, whether
it's iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, make sure you give us a
five star rating, leave a review, leave a couple of comments,
click that share button and a follow. Tell a friend
to tell a friend to do what Peanut.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Tell a friend? Yeah, check us out, check us out man.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
And also on the NFL's new YouTube channel, Well it's
not that new anymore, but the NFL pages YouTube channel.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Check us out.
Speaker 4 (45:11):
I'm Peanut. That's wrong, that's their ay. And this is
the NFL Player's second Next podcast
You've talked about some really good times, and I want
you to draw this picture for me because I have
no idea what it is. But when I say a word,
you tell me and I'll probably be able to pick
think a little bit.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Just by the facial expression. But humperdinks, we got we
got black. That out, you got dark, we got dark.
Those are some single moments. So this is my experience
as well. So my first.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Seven a minute you know about because we do our
research research here.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
We are professional.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
We haven't nobody the Internet.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
We are a professor Google machine Hot.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
He's on the hot seats. So what's up, everybody. I'm
Peanut Toman and this this is the NFL Players Second
Act podcast and with me, as always my trusty co host,
my work wife, Roman Harper. What's up?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
What's up baby? I appreciate the nicknames. Early.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I'm really excited about this, this sex episode. Who he
got as our guests, I mean, everybody will know exactly
who he is. He's a great representative of the state
of Texas and the Dallas Cowboys itself. And whenever you
get all DB's in the room, it's gonna be a
great all love yea, yeah, all right, go ahead, introduce
all right, this next guest, This next gentleman U.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Three time Super Bowl champion, five time Pro bowler. He's
in a Dallas Cowboys Ring of honor. He's a tech entrepreneur,
real estate mogul.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
He just came from the office. He just came from
the office. Ladies and gentlemen, please walk up to the pod.
Mister Darren, what's yeah, walk up to the pot.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Appreciate it. Appreciate me in here. Man, I'm good to
see you on Dallas.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Yeah, say it all the way down in Texas. I'm
from the central part of the state, from coppers Co, Temple, Waco.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah, Helena, Yeah yeah, used to be far from here,
on the way to Austin.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
On the way to Austin. Absolutely all my peoples is
up in Sherman and Gainesville.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah yeah. Did you see anybody you know you got
off that plane win yesterday? Yeah? Yeah. The family, the
family tonight. I'm okay tonight, I'm doing like old Fantom,
flying without telling anybody.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Can do that. Dave, my aunt is gonna be mad
at me. So I'm I'm doing dinner tonight. He's going golfing. Yes,
I'm doing dinner with the family.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Knight. Strike that from the record, though my wife does
not know that. No, you're going golf the record, She
didn't bigger ass golf club. No, no, no, she was.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Dropping the kids off and I got to play as
I booked my flights. Everything is around that, everything is
around that never strike, that never never rest. It's war mentality.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Oh my god, you're terrible.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
So I want to get this thing started off right now.
So you are second as the Dallas Cowboys all time
tackler or not all time? So your second one? Sports
teams tackles, yes, first all time? First uh in tackles
and tackles second all time?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
And special teams.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Always bring this up thirteen years eleven years. Yeah, I
played sports teams my entire career.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, got to. Yes, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
The more you can do, the more to help your
team because.
Speaker 5 (03:26):
The team players, right, Yeah, of course you got us.
This damn devo divo over here. He ain't played a
damn special team, not one. No like team return nothing,
definitely not punt return. I'm like, bro, I'm not blocking nobody.
I did do kick offf like some safety work.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
But you know that's like that.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Oh yeah, count, that don't count.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I'm not the field guy. I'm not. You never ran
L five or five none, nothing, huh.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
And he's a thumper.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I wouldn't. That is amazing. That wouldn't never have imagined
the harp that you had never played special. That's like,
that's unheard of.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
They never asked me to as a rookie. They I
was doing no special teams. Uh, they were just trying
to let me play. And then second year they kind
of got me in a little bit and I would
practice some PP but like I never played in the game,
like it was never And I always laughed because he
always laughs and says all these things.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
I'm like overrated.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Almost every one of Devin Harris's punt returns like us
me running the same way.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I just saw a video the other day of Beyond
Return and one in New York, and I see myself
acting like I was trying to forget some But that's
that was my entire life. I walked in the door. Here,
I was on all four. I was on kickoff return,
kickoff return, kickoff, punt return. I held up on the
outside on a punt return. You're a four core guy,
(04:58):
all of it, ye my ass. And the reason why
I have twelve surgeries is because and that's the reason
I'm serious. I'd say about least half of my surgeries
came in from a Special Teams play. Didn't see someone
someone cut me from behind on the side, my own
player broke my arm. You know, I had some friendly
fire all the time. Like I mean, it's because it's movings.
(05:21):
Everything's moving so fast that and the collisions are that
much greater. Those are the reasons why. That's when the
Special Teams was real.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
And I would also say one thing about Special Teams,
and you guys can probably attest to this, and I'm
a victim of it, is that if you don't do
it early, you can't just all your seven eight and
hit the switch. I'm gonna be a Special Teams guy. No,
I don't work that way. You got to come in
doing this, so you get to understand it. And we
didn't have a choice. There was no choice in them.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
We came in. Joey avazonal Rest in Peace was our
Special Teams coach, was a great Special Teams coach. Jimmy
Johnson was a head coach. Jimmy was in every Special
teams meeting every day, and sometimes it make the entire
team come in and watch. Specially and on a Monday
morning after a Sunday game, please, everybody's watching. Turn those
(06:08):
lights off, Troy, and everybody's in that special teams meeting
watching you run down the field, and dude, he would
control the Jimmy would control the tape after a loss.
He used to call it red ass meetings on special
team's day. Don't run down the field, find yourself. I
used to be in games at L four thinking, dude,
I gotta get off this. I better not be the
(06:28):
last one. It was a sprint down the field and
all of them were return back then as well. Oh yeah,
you getting hit from the side, they setting you up
all the wedge. Yeah, I was trying to.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
So you're you're talking about all these hits and collisions.
We'd like to know everybody else's in. We all have
our own. But what was your first welcome to the
NFL moment?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Uh? First welcome to the NFL moment, I would say
was training camp and we used to do one on
one so I was I have a backstory. My backstory
is I was at Arizona State. I was what they
call a tweener. I was basically, you're a smaller linebacker.
I was like the rover back played a little linebacker
did play. We did. Lovey Smith was my position coach.
(07:12):
A lovey used to become. I can't call him lovey.
Coach Smith used to always have me playing multiple positions.
I'd played lineup at safety. Sometimes I'd covered the slot receiver.
He taught me how to do all these things right,
but I'd never been on that autobond back on the outside,
like I that's a little different. Right. So I get
here my first year and we're going through many camps
(07:35):
and we're not you know, nothing's really going on. We're
doing some one on ones, but just mostly with the
rookies and all that. And then the veterans. We get
the training camp. All the veterans are in and my
first time one on ones, eighty eight walked up and
I had to cover him the first time, and it
was like it was that moment like, Okay, I've been
watching you know, if you if you didn't know Mike
(07:56):
back then it's I'm about to run, you know. He
just barking and it's a crowd. There's an audience, right
because our training camps were packed and you had, you know,
twenty some thousand people in the stands, and he just,
you know, he just going at it and I can't
believe you put him out here like he's talking to
me right. And I think that was my wake up
(08:18):
moment to be like, Okay, I'm out here on the
outside one on one with Michael Irvin and he ran
an out. I jumped out, made a good play on
the ball, and I was like, yeah, I can do it.
I can do this. Now. This is you know, Mike
couldn't run anyway, but Mike was strong and fast. But
you know, it was one of those days where that
was that was my wake up moment to to the NFL.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
Yeah, that's cool, I know for I think for me,
I just assumed that I would always be in Chicago
my entire career. I know, you're a Saints Hall of
Famer and you played for another team. I played for
one other team. How does it feel that knowing that
you were in Dallas your entire career and just played
(09:01):
for one team.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yeah. I never experienced free agency. Yeah, I never got
to free agency. I was always you know, we always
got signed up before we got there. I think the
closest I was over there was like a month before
free agency. Yeah, and you know, they they found a
way to get me locked up early. You know, I
couldn't see myself playing anywhere else. And I say that
because I'm so ingrained in the community here, Like I
(09:25):
have four kids, all in school. I've been I mean,
I'm on the Make a Wish Foundation board, the C
five Texas board. Today, I've been on Salvation Army. You know,
I've been so ingrained in this community that I don't
I never even thought about leaving, Like I don't know
what it would feel like to see. And I've saw teammates,
(09:48):
coaches packing up, leaving, going somewhere else, taking their kids.
And that's the thing we don't understand that we don't
see in this sport, right, is that the true fan
doesn't really see the behind the scenes. And a head
coach loses or a position coach loses his job, He's
go take his babies out of school. Yep, they got friends,
he's tied to the church. You know, there's so many
(10:10):
little small integral things that that that now they have
to get up and move. And now they're moving to
Green Bay kids are in another school third fourth grade
and great, and I just never had to experience that. Man,
I've been blessed. I mean, I'll tell you now, I've
been extremely blessed to just be on this team, staying
in this community. Yeah, that's that's cool.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
So you talked about that, and you talked about your
teammates leaving and coaches leaving.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I mean, you were the last one of the dynasty.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
At one point where it was like you and Irvin
without the mainstays. You were the last one out of
everybody the OG. So what was that locker room dynamic
like thing did you see? I know, you saw the change,
the change from when you first got in, when you
were the young guy to all of a sudden, now
you're the old guy and you don't have the same
party that you have before.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, and not only that personnel changed, you know, the
coach his staff started to change. I wanted I was
the only one that went through five coaches and that
I ain't proud of that because you know what happens
when you're going through coaches lost games. So when I
first came in, Jimmy Johnson was my head coach, and
Jimmy did everything. He ran personnel, so cut players, brought
(11:17):
players in, drafted them, did everything, rock coaches in. That
was all Jimmy. Jerry was overseeing at the top. It
was base Jerry was basically being a young new owner.
He had lawsuits with the league he was dealing with,
he was bringing in sponsors.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
He was the only one with absolute everybody else everybody
else so that.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
The league was suing him at the times. He wasn't
involved that much, involved on the day to day. So
that was all Jimmy. So the personnel, you kind of
knew what the personnel was gonna look like. Jimmy wanted
alpha dogs that were going to compete. I mean, you
didn't have to be the most talented to do but
you better love this game because he was gonna test
that metal to see if you you know how much
you really cared about the game. But that personnel was
(12:01):
from ninety two. Jimmy got fired after the second Super Bowl,
which is ridiculous, but it's crazy. I don't even go there.
And then we brought it yeah, which is crazy. Man.
I was in Phoenix at the time we had won
the second Super Bowl. I've be in Phoenix. I'm gonna
go ahead and tell the story. Let me go. So I'm
(12:21):
in Phoenix and with my family and watching, and back
then we didn't have like social media. It was just
you found out on the news, right, And nor did
we have like the regular old cell phone where you
just called me up on the cell phone and just
like the landline rang. My buddy Kevin Smith called me.
Who Pup you guys probably know. Pup called me. He
(12:42):
was the corner on the team. He said, you watching
the news. I said, what news? You know that just fired?
He just said it that way, but it has fired Jimmy.
I said, there ain't no way. So I'm turning, can't
find it on time. I got him. I'm on the lawn.
I'm on the landline phone at my mom's house. I
got my hand on his long cord. I'm trying to
find the news channel.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
No one's talking about it, yeah, because it didn't had
any hit out there.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Right, And and so I'm talking. I'm still talking to him,
says man, I'm serious. They just fired Jimmy. And it wasn't.
But maybe an hour later, I've turned on the news
and I'm seeing Michael Irvin in the locker room. Throwing
the garbage can. I don't know if you guys remember
all this. You guys probably too young for this, but
he's throwing the garbage can. He's all pissed off. Reporters
(13:29):
are all over the place, and I'm seeing this and
then you know, Phoenix news stations, as you know, Jimmy
Johnson has just been fired for the Dallas Cowboys and
blew me away. Man, It's just because we were in
a moment and we just won back to back. Everybody's
coming back under contract. The mindset was we won the second.
(13:50):
When we were on the bus going to the airport
the next day, we partied really hard after that game,
right Atlanta was you know special. We were on the
bus going back to the airport and I remember everybody saying, Okay,
we're gonna get three and we're gonna get four, like
we were thinking more of not just the three people,
but it was this was a dynasty that was in place.
(14:14):
And then Jimmy got fired, and I think it was
just everything just went just went away. The mindset went away.
Barry Switzer loved Barry. Barry came in, but it was
all of Jimmy's coaches. It was you know, you had
to all of the Jimmy staff and you just plugged
Barry in. They were all there was all this in
fighting because all those coaches wanted the job. So you
(14:35):
can imagine how tumultuous the locker room was. We were.
There's a lot of alpha dogs on that team, and
Jimmy did a good job of controlling us and making
sure we were you know, you were biting the right
person that was gone. So the prisoner started running the
asylum and it just got worse and over the years,
you know, we ended up going to the NFC Championship Game,
(14:58):
losing to San Francisco. The following year when winning the
Super Bowl, had no idea how that happened. You guys
were talented, Yeah there was talent, man, but we were
I was I'll say this, I'll say this. The league
wasn't that good that year. Okay, there's no way we
should that team. I look at that team, our last team,
(15:18):
when that's the last Super Bowl. I'm like, man, our
first team to beat the dog piss out of that team.
Really not even close. It wasn't even close. And that
was the year that Dion was on the team. In
ninety five, or whatnot. Our ninety two ninety three teams
were much stronger than our ninety five team and and
then after that it was a free fall. Personnel coming
in was terrible. I mean, we couldn't get guys that
(15:40):
were drafted in the first second round to play Pete.
I'm looking at you, play special teams, right. We couldn't
get it. Just think about it, your first second round pick.
They couldn't even make the special teams roster. They couldn't
do all the little things. So the first second, third
round guys were just now we were missing. We kept on,
we continued to miss. We had an opportunity to take
(16:01):
Randy Moss, we didn't take him. He sat imagine in
the Dallas Yeah. So the personnel scouting was was a mess.
And I'm not gonna blame all the guys because it's
you know, it's aulation of that. But we weren't the
same outfit and never were pretty much through the rest
of my time until Bill Parcells came in and I
(16:23):
had gone three straight years of five and eleven, five
and eleven. I wanted to get traded. I wanted to
get up out of here because it was it was terrible. Man,
it was really bad. Parcels came in, same team, same quarterback,
same personnel. We go from five to eleven, he comes
in ten and six in the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
To me, that just go that everything you just said.
The one thing I can think of is just leadership.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, how important.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
It is to bring in the right leader to lead
all these alphas. Yeah, you know, and it's not really
I don't want to work controlling, but just leading them
in the right now direction.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yeah, you know, like we don't need.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
To fight each other, keep that energy, keep that same fight,
keep that dog. But I want it going here. I
want you to go there. I want you to go there. Hey, coaches,
I need you to go this. I need you know,
Like that's yeah leadership.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, and we got relaxed. We got really relaxed around here.
And I think it was that time and even today.
I mean, it's been since nineteen ninety five that this
organization has won a Super Bowl. But it's been a
mindset that has pretty much been the same mindset until
until I'm telling you, until Parcels came in and he
had this nice little run there, they didn't win the championship. Right,
(17:35):
there was an accountability he held the team accountable.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
The standard is a stand.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Absolutely, if he had the t if he had the
right personnel, he won a super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
So you said something, and that's exactly where all the
Dallas Cowboy fans want to know. And since I got
one here, I'm going to ask him because one of
my best friends is a huge Cowboy fan, not as
big as he used to be, but still big. Hearing
a lot of that, you know, So you have grown
adult Cowboys fans that have never seen this, all the
success and Super Bowls that we all brag about as
(18:04):
Cowboy fans. I'm not one of them, but I'm trying.
I'm trying to make everybody inclusive. That's right and so
and so understanding that what is missing because it's not talent.
You guys have had Hall of fame. The talent has
been an abundance for the Cowboys. Not only do they drafted,
(18:24):
but they acquire it and however they get it. So
it's not the talent. What is it that's missing that
in your opinion? And I'm gonna ask other Cowboys players,
formers that I could I get to sit in front of,
But what is that that's been missing in your opinion.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
I don't know. Honestly, I don't think anyone knows because
you just said it. I mean, the talent has been Theres,
the Marcus where you had you know a lot of
you know, I can't tell you how great that offensive
line was for a long time t O was here.
I mean, they had a run where talent was plentiful.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Trespis is gonna be Hall of fame, absolutely on both
sides of the ball, Martin up front us they've had guys.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah, I don't know. It's I can't. I can't. I
can't put my finger on it. One. I'm not in
the locker room anymore. So for anyone that's saying, well,
you know this, you know the team, Yeah, you don't
know the team, even if you played in that organization,
If you're not in that locker room every day, you
just don't know the man, You just don't. Can't. I
can watch them, watch them on film sometimes or on
(19:28):
TV or on film and just think, man like they
are so close. But there's there's, you know, the whole
mindset that you think that this is old school. Now,
this is really old school. You don't win championships in
the playoffs like you just don't get in the playoffs
and you just win that championship. Like it starts wairly,
it starts in March April, when there is a true
(19:51):
belief that us three hey dog were coming in to
work out every day. We're gonna watch film on third
and this is how I came in. We're watching film
in the off season on us breaking down our old
film and seeing, okay, damn, we were weaking this this
cover four man, and we got to do better. We're
we're doing those little things. I don't think that's a
(20:12):
process that they these guys go through anymore. I don't
think it's a process of looking back at the year
back and looking at yourself and being critical of your plate.
Am I running into the ball? Am I giving one effort?
Am I lined up the right way? Am I reading this?
You know? Am I reading my keys and doing all?
Am I studying the right way? Like there's no there's
(20:34):
I don't think that's a mindset of this organization. I
think this organization is where the Dallas Cowboys. It's a
nice star on the helmet. Jimmy Johnson used to say,
we used to this was like the like some kind
of golf club. You know, the atmosphere is like very casual.
You can't be casual and expect to win championship. Y'
all know this. You know what this feels like. You
(20:55):
know what it feels like. I mean, there's some ups
and downs in order to be a championship team. There's
going to be disruption along the way. You're not going
like each other all the time. There's gonna be some
some days that you're gonna have to fight through. Some
days you're gonna want to complain about how many days
we've been out here in pads and we're doing this
and this, and the coaches got us doing this or not. Hey,
someone's gotta step and say shut up, let's get out
(21:16):
here and get this work in right, that's not the
mentality here. There's one guy that you look at right now,
and it's number four. Yeah, and I look out here.
I'm office right here on the third floor, and I
watched number four whether he wins championship. So he doesn't
win championships. I watch him throw to the fifteenth receiver
(21:37):
on the team on hot days by himself out here throwing.
So I know he has the workout it, but i'd
love to see CD. I'd love to see some other
guys in the off season that our starters be out
here with him throwing instead of going back home. Like
that's the problem.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Not only that, but they're gonna bring somebody else with
him exactly. That's how you really get better. And I
talked to New Orleans and I'll be candid. One thing
that they really struggle with is like the team doesn't
watch film together when when when they're not under the coaches,
they're not together watching film to see lifestyle. Man, I
(22:16):
know how I see it, and they don't watch film
together unless the coach is there. A lot of these
teams are struggling with the younger players now they don't
just they're not together. So you may see it one way,
but how does he see it? Then how do we
see it together?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Exactly?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
So that's how we ultimately under can't tell And that
is a big deal.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Football used to be a lifestyle to us, like this
this was what you did right, So again in the
off even during the season, we was to have these
pizza call pizza days. Ken Norton I first came in
the league. Ken Norton was the leader as defense. He
used to have what we call pizza days. That was
at six o'clock on Thursdays. On Wednesdays and Thursdays, so
we would order in pizza, no coach, six o'clock. We're
(23:01):
all as a defense, were watching film just so we
speak the same language, the entire defense from six to eight.
And then you went home, like we spent more time,
and I'm sure y'all did the same thing. We spent
more time with my teammates and I did with my
own family, and that was a part of it. But
it was a lifestyle. It was an understanding of this
(23:22):
is what you do. Show. Yeah, I show up on Sunday.
I don't wrap, I don't I'm not a roofer, I
ain't a doctor. I don't play the guitar on weekends.
What do you do? I play football. That's my job.
And I don't know if that's the mentality anymore. And
I don't know if that's just the Cowboys organization. That's
across it's across the league. But if you want to
get back to a championship mentality, it don't doesn't start
(23:46):
when the season starts. It starts in the off season
and breaking down things and taking a hard look at yourself. Yeah,
I agree with that.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
I want to I want to ask you about the
what's your recollection of that? That to fight Dallas versus
the forty nine Ers. I know you had got ejected.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
I got ejected, So I don't remember a few minutes earlier.
Uh t O.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
He gets the ball, runs, puts it on the star.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
I'm a forty nine Ers fan, so I was excited about,
Oh my god, Jesus this, you.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Know, this rivalry matchup. I loved it all.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
So you didn't watch it in the locker room or you.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Know, I got kicked out of the game. So look,
I was looking to get kicked out kind of like
I was. I was looking for a fight. We were
getting our asses thumped, right, and I made a tackle
and I was on the ground and no one stepped
on me. Newberry and that was it was that Newberry. Okay,
So he stepped on me, and I didn't know what
(24:42):
the next day it was. He kind of got pushed.
He didn't matter, it didn't matter. I just saw whatever
not today. So I'm yelling at him, trying to fight
with him, and then the referee gets in the way
and I kind of bumped the rev. You know, I
just went in on the rep and he I was like,
you know what, I remember, you know what I said.
I remember. I remember the ref saying my name, not Woodson.
(25:06):
He called me by my first name. The referee said, Darren,
your ass is out of here. And for some reason,
that's I was walking up the tunnel. I said, dude
said my first name because most of the time referee,
so you know, heyah, you know Harper, get out of here, right? Yeah? No, no,
he called me my first name. I was like, you
a family friend and you throwing me out of the game,
(25:27):
so you know me somehow. But anyway, so I get
up and I'm in the locker room. I get in
the shower and back then I didn't know. No one
walked me into the locker room. They walked me to
the tunnel and I walked in the locker room. I
never even kicked out of a game. I didn't know
what to do. So I get in a shower and
I'm you know, they have these monitors, but they are
the monitors were the game. It's all the sponsorship this stuff, right, not.
(25:50):
I don't have the game. I don't have access to
the game. So I'm I shower up and I'm dressed,
and all of a sudden, boom, George t walks in
to the locker room and Tiaga and I were the safeties, right,
So Tige walks in. I'm like, what are you doing?
He's so upset, he's so pissed, he can't even talk
to me. I was like horror, I called him, or Hori,
(26:12):
what happened? You worry about it? You get He's throwing
his stuff off. So I'm standing there, I'm waiting for
him to get out of the shower. Ask him again
what happened. He's like, man, I don't want to talk
about it. So we both just left, like I still
in the stadium. We left the stadium. We didn't know
what to do.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
N't even stay after the No, we didn't know what
I mean.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
We were just sitting there like we what we gonna do?
We can't watch the game, we can't walk back down.
We're gonna sit here. So we left went home, and
that's when I saw. When I got home, I saw
the replay of what happened with t O on the
Star and George and the whole I saw it at
(26:54):
sitting on my couch and I watched the replay of it.
That's how I learned about it. Beat the traffic, beat
the traffic, and got cussed out the next day. Dude,
they got us the next day for leaving. But we
didn't know what I'm serious, man, if there was someone
that was a yeah, not a trainer, not an equipment dude,
(27:16):
nobody like within you know, the organization that says, hey,
we need to and we were so we were so bad.
We were just so bad. It was just we needed
to leave that place. Yeah. So you know, first of all,
I love this story.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
I mean, t O was creative too, because he did
a big Star and they said you cannot go out there, so.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Then he went on a little star. It was just
it was like a little brother. The next day, they
asked me, you know you got kicked out earlier. You know,
what would you have done? I was like, dude, look,
I appreciate what George did, but you want to stop
you know, you don't want him doing that. What he's
gonna do, you know, then stop him? Yeah all right,
we didn't have the personnel to stop him, so it
(27:56):
is what it is. Yeah, sucks, and then we bring
him in years later. You know, I can't beat them,
join them.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
So you you've talked about some really good times. And
I want you to draw this picture for me because
I have no idea what it is. But when I
say a word, you tell me and I'll probably be
able to pick think a little bit just by the
facial expression.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
But humperdinks, we got we got black that out, they
got dark, they got dark. Those are some single moments.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
So this is my experience as well. So my first
seven minute.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
You know abouts because we do our research, our research here.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
We are professional.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
We haven't nobody to the Internet.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
We are professor Google machine Hot.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
He's on the hot season.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
My first six or seven years in the league, I
was single as well, and so we won the Super
Bowl and I was a single male.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I had just my homeboys with me in Miami.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
I went to high school with after you win the
super Bowl, so you know what like when you when
you got your boys, And this is what your experience
was early on in your Dallas career. You were it
was a whole bunch of guys that were all single.
Nobody was more single than than married.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Got absolutely total different dynastics, a different lot. And that
was the after right after a game, you got showered up.
You normally didn't even go home most of the time.
You know, you didn't even go You want directly to Humperdinks.
Nobody's paying for drinks. This is no, no, no, this
is and this is just the first stop. Right, Yes,
(29:41):
that was called the landing spot for us. Right, so
everybody humperd Inks and then from Humperdinks. Then we went
and we went as like the entire team, entire team
went to the next spot to paint.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
You want to go to Humperdinks tonight, dude.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
You know, everybody here's you want to do. Everybody here's
I'm down.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Everybody, here's about the quote unquote white House, but nobody
about the humper Dicks.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
About the humper Dicks was the real Yeah, it was.
It was a landing spot after the games. Win like
win games, lost games. Now show your face. That's not happening.
Jimmy finds out your humper Dings after a win, after
a loss, Oh hell will break loose? Okay, I like.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
It, So I want to I want to get into it.
I want to get into the second act.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Right.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
So you retire in two thousand and four, you start
working at ESPN in two thousand and five. What did
you do in between? Did you just sit at home
and just chilled? You get in some golf.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
No. You know what's crazy is that I ended up.
So when I retired, I had like about two or
three weeks and I actually was doing I did this
little roundabout the to NBC, CBS to ESPN. Knew I
was going to do some type of TV, but for
(30:59):
that first year, and I was coming off an injury.
I was coming off of major back injury. I had
nerve damage. I could barely walk. So I was still
trying to rehab that process of trying to you know,
trying to get my quality of life back, and that
took me about four or five months, and then I
went right on into ESPN. It wasn't that. It wasn't
as long as you think it was. It was a
(31:20):
lot shorter. I was on the set of ESPN still
dealing with a major back issue. That's why you're a
little bit shorter now. That's why.
Speaker 4 (31:27):
Yeah, I know you walked in with me.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Between. That's what that is.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
That's funny, that's funny. I do want to ask a
personal thing after your career. You know, you have been
a Hall of Fame finalist the last three years and
you've not been able to get in. Now I give you,
will give you flowers because you are an Arizona State
Sports Hall of Famer. Yeah, you are the State of
Arizona Athletic Hall of Fame as well. So you're in
(32:00):
a couple the main one I know you're shooting for, like,
how does it.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Feel the emotion? Still going through it?
Speaker 1 (32:06):
And also, I don't know if you know this, but
once you get in, which I assume you will, at
some point, you'll be the only.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Person in your whole draft class absolutely, which is crazy, crazy.
I've been that long and nobody else.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
Give me some of the people in your draft class first,
so it'll give people a little bit of context.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
You wouldn't even know most of it. So my guys
that I played with is Kevin Smith, Robert Jones. Remember
Jimmy Smith, the wide receiver. Jimmy was drafted two picks
before me the Cowboys by us, right, I didn't, So
we have four in the first two rounds because you
were part of the Herschel, the Herschel washing Walker trade. Yeah,
(32:48):
my draft pick. I think me and Jimmy were part
of that that those picks. Steve Eman, I think was
the first guy that went that year, Big Defens Linement
out of University of Washington. And then after that, man,
it kind of Dale Carter Corner, Corny Dale was a player,
true player. But after that, man, it gets kind of dark.
(33:10):
Like if you asked me it's ten years ago, I
probably remember the names. And this is the thing. Who's
doing the who's research? Where's research out here? Man? This
is this is a good question.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
Shout out to Thomas producer, he'd be doing this thing
because I didn't know up until like a year ago.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
I had one of the Hall of Fame voters out
of Minnesota says something to me about that draft class.
He said, you would be the only one, and I
it took me back to say, no, there's no way
that ever, so he sent me the list of all
the players and I thought, damn, isn't that that would
(33:53):
be amazing to go in. But you know why I
want to go in, man, this is one of the
reasons why I want to go into the Hall of Fame.
It's because in ninety two, ninety three, ninety four, and
you keep going down for like four or five years,
We were the number one defense in the NFL. We
didn't give up points like it was it was hell
to pay. We had a really good defense. And I
(34:13):
played with guys and outside of Charles Haley, who came
in from the San Francisco forty nine ers, right, Dion
Sanders went from Atlanta to San France and then came here.
Those are the two guys that are in the Hall
of Fame. There's no one that's been ingrained, drafted by
this organization, and most of the players on that defense
(34:34):
were drafted by Jimmy. I would be the only one.
And I want to represent them. Dudes that came in,
I mean the Russell Maryland's, the Tony Toberts, who people
just forget about, Like those are my teammates, the Ken
Norton juniors. You know, there's so many guys, Kevin Spicer,
so many guys that I played with that were so
(34:56):
damn good. Yeah that when I get up there, do
I want to recognize them? Yeah? I mean we had
nine turn We forced nine turnovers in the first Super Bowl.
The first Super Bowl. I didn't know that. Yeah, nine turns.
The game was fifty something, Yeah, seventeen. It was blowout. Yeah,
yeah it was. It got ugly and we we you know,
our defense scored twice in the in the second Super Bowl,
(35:19):
the third Super Bowl, Larry Browns had the two. He
was the super Bowl MVP. True, like we had we
never got. We got recognized as the Triplets, Troy Mike,
and that's how they knew the organization. Man. But damn dude,
I ran down on special teams for a lot of games.
I have more reps than anyone from ninety two to
two thousand and four. That is not a person standing
(35:40):
that has more reps than I am.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
You were a core player on that team. Now, I mean,
I know we we talk about the Triplets, but you're
your quadruple quadrules? Is that what it is before?
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yeah? You you mean I'm about don't do all that count?
Speaker 4 (35:52):
Yeah, baby's born at one time. That's what it means.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
You were.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
You were the quad like this that's safe to say,
Like it's you. You were a huge part of the
success with this organization. I just think it's easy to
sell tickets and put people in the seats when your offense.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Yeah, I always say that.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
Defense wins championships as good as selling tickets.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Exactly, and so you know you did go into the
Ring of Honor here with the cowboys. And I want
to know what comes to mind when you hear somebody
like Jerry Jones say such great spiritual words about you.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
As unselfish, reliable, dependable, a team player first and a
team leader. He's a living, breathing example of what it
is to have great character and to be a Dallas Cowboy.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Yeah. I you know when he said I remember him
saying that. I thought, my mom, that's crazy. I mean,
it's crazy how that seems like I didn't reflect it
and think, Okay, yeah he's talking about me. I'm talking
he's talking about my mama. Dude. I mama raised four
kids by herself, project kids, all of went to high school, graduated,
Me and my sister to graduate from college. Like it
just she worked two jobs five am it was her
(37:05):
first job, got off at four thirty and went to
her second job and got home at eleven o'clock. Like
that's that's character. Like I watched this woman just sacrifice
for us. So I am you know when he's talking
about that, that's that generation down watch my mom and
then my grandmama and all them. But Uh, it's a
(37:26):
reflection of you know, what I've always strived for was
to be someone who represented the right way. And it's
the same thing I want to do with my kids.
I want to pour that into my children the same way.
And how many kids do you have to have? Four? Okay, yeah,
that's the number. That's a great answer for everybody.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
Yeah, yeah, we all got that's just enough to like
me and get four. Tried to he always trying to
be like me. He wors top button, just like one.
You know what I'm saying. Thomas over he do the
same thing.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Yeah, I see everybody representing.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
Yeah, you know, I'm kind of a big try to
like me. But no what that what that being said?
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Though?
Speaker 4 (38:03):
With your mom, I want to ask this question, and
I think I know one of the people Mount Rushmore,
who would be on your personal Mount Rushmore? Of people
of influence from the time you were born till today?
Who would you put four people on your personal.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Week Mount rush My Lord like hes gonna be. He's
got his own mountains, so I can't put him on that. Okay, Okay,
so Mount Rushmore, I would say. My mother wants She
was my she was my role model, my sister Monica
basically raised me. She was you know, I put all
(38:43):
my my brother, my siblings, my brother Todd, he was
a thug though he used to kick my ass off,
I ain't putting his ass up there, so he can't
forget that. So I was the youngest. Yeah, I was
the youngest of four sou but my sister Monica played
a major role in my life, so I got to
put her up there. Muhammad Ali, Man, I remember being
a kid, and y'all are way too young for this,
(39:04):
but I remember being a kid and watching a black
man talk sideways to folks. And you know where I
grew up. You the cops, the white police come in you.
You didn't just talk sideways to people. Man, you you know,
you kind of had this mentality if you try to
avoid the confrontation from being when they come under that,
(39:28):
when they that band walk comes through the the neighborhood,
your ass fleas right, you straighten up. You try to
get it, you know. And to watch Muhammad Ali with
the confidence that he had, the swagger that he had,
and the way he communicated, he just was he was
bigger than big. Like everybody talks about Michael Jordan, a
(39:50):
lot of the kids watching for myself, even cludo. We
talk about Michael Jordan, love Jordan, but as someone who
played a who box or play the sport that really
transitioned not just the sport but outside the sport, like
he was just he was phenomenal man, just phenomenal. And
(40:16):
then the last one, that's a horrid woman I got.
I got a dude that that has been with me forever.
His name is George Bass. He's my agent. And there's
a reason why I own two businesses in his life,
Like I came into the NFL not having any financial background,
(40:37):
not having any pursuit of wanting to do own a business.
That was never my mindset. And I was in my
first my third year in the league, and my agent,
his job was he represented you know a number of athletes,
about six or seven athletes, but his day job was
he's a CFO for a retail development company. And I
(41:02):
used to see him. He used to talk to me
all the time about real estate, and I would spend
time with him, and so when I i'd watch him
and I try to get into some of their investment
deals and he said, no, no, you can't get in
until you learn the business. You cannot invest until you
get learned the business. So I had to take He
made me take down an office space in his office complex,
(41:25):
and in the off season in ninety six, I think
it was ninety five ninety six, in the off season,
I would have to go in there. After I worked out,
I would go in there and I would learn the business.
And it's the reason why I'm sitting right here today.
And I can tell you I think I probably had
more success off the field than I've had on the field,
(41:45):
and it's because of George Paths. So he just pour
it into me. Man, he would be my he would
be that other Mount rushmore God. That really I like that? Yeah,
I like that.
Speaker 4 (41:55):
I got I got one more question for you.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Oh please, I'm gonna fire away too.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
Sin committed complaint, compelled?
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yeah upon that.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
You live your life by these four seeds.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Yeah, I live my life by my core values. My
core values are God and God represents wisdom and knowledge.
So God is one and I usually just look at
her as God is that one, and then my family,
my health, and it's just morals. Morally, where do I
want to fall in any situation? So I'm not going
(42:30):
to get into a real estate a business deal without
it falling within my core values. If it's something that
doesn't fall in my core value, if it's relationships, friends, family,
I measure it all in in that little bucket. If
they don't fall in, they're out. And I'm big, guys,
I'm big on shedding people like in life, like God is.
(42:52):
I mean, certain people aren't yoked for you, right, So
I don't have a problem with shedding folks that don't meet,
that don't fall within my core values. It's just plain
and simple, and that comes from that's from close, close family.
If they're not in, then they're not in. I like that.
(43:13):
You can't ask more questions.
Speaker 4 (43:14):
We gotta wrap all right fast.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
I know, I know, I appreciate you. That was way
too fast. I agree, I agree. We just sat there.
We're gonna come back.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
Not only well, we're gonna have to edit this, but
here right now?
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Is it the corner? Is that? Is that why I'm
getting kicked out? Is that what it is? Don't is
that what it is? Okay, you see what I'm saying
a triplet? Tell tell him and I said, kiss my ass.
Speaker 4 (43:44):
He's probably gonna you gonna see him as he as
he as he walks in. I'm just Hey, I'm just
I'm just a messenger.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Don't shoot the messenger. Yeah, no, we should totally shoot
the messenger, Darren Man.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Bottom line is, bro I hopefully we get to continue
to do this conversation more more. You are being a
hell of a successful person on and off the field.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Your story is amazing.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
You are my new goal guy, because you know, you
did the TV thing, then you went on to be
your own entrepreneur.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
You tech guys.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
You got in early with the right people, being a
good avid listener and learning. You never stopped learning, and
that's been a success story that you will continue to
build upon because of who you are. And so I'm
just really really proud to actually sit down and share
this time with you, allowing you to pour into us
because me and Peanut really enjoy these things. Yes, and
I'm still learning as well, and so it's just been
(44:36):
really really awesome to sit down and have this and
also get some really good stories out.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
I appreciate you, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Our viewers are going to love this, so we're really
gonna be appreciated, man to all of our viewers out
there and listeners Wherever you pick up your podcast, whether
it's iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, make sure you give us a
five star rating, leave a review, leave a couple of comments,
click that share button and a follow. Tell a friend
to tell a friend to do what Peanut.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Tell a friend? Yeah, check us out, check us out man.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
And also on the NFL's new YouTube channel, Well it's
not that new anymore, but the NFL pages YouTube channel.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Check us out.
Speaker 4 (45:11):
I'm Peanut. That's wrong, that's their ay. And this is
the NFL Player's second Next podcast
Hosts And Creators
Charles “Peanut” Tillman
Roman Harper
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