NFL Network Insiders Tom Pelissero, Ian Rapoport, Judy Battista, and Mike Garafolo share the latest update on Sauce Gardner’s calf injury. Then they take stock of the Steelers season and predict what it could mean for head coach Mike Tomlin and the franchise if they can’t right the ship.
Plus, they try to make sense of the crowded NFC West Playoff Picture, after the Rams surprising loss to the Panthers.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Babby. Monday, everyone, and welcome Inside with the Insiders, a
Monday podcast edition. We got a full house here from
clockwise bottom left, Mike Garafalo, Judy Battista, No Wrongway, Ian
and Ian Rappaport. I am Tom Pellissero. As we do
every Monday, we will get into all the fallout from
(00:27):
all the games on Sunday, we also take a look
back at a wild Thanksgiving and Black Friday, talk about
the broader scope of things across the NFL. But let's
start as we always do on Mondays by talking injuries,
and one of them Ian occurred at the game that
I was at yesterday. Sauce Gardner had the dreaded something
(00:48):
happens in his lower body. He turns around to look
behind him, wondering exactly what happened. I talked with Sauce
in the locker room after the game. He said he
felt like he got shot. It was at the top
of his calf, not the bottom. This is not an Achilles' tear,
This is not a long term injury. But for a
Colts team that's kind of hit a rocky patch here,
(01:10):
they may be without their all pro corner for a
bit here.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, I mean it is a calf strain, I would
say mild calf strain.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
So probably a few weeks for sauce Gardner.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Now you know, they'll make the determination whether or not
they put them on IR.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
We'll see.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I'm not sure we'll know that today, but we'll see
a lot of times those come on Tuesday or maybe
Wednesday morning. But probably in that window where like might
go on iron might not. So probably a couple of
weeks for the Colts. He's a really good player. But
it's also significant for me in another reason. They kind
of went all in on sauce Gardner, right, and they
traded two first rounders. He is sort of the missing
(01:50):
piece on their defense. He's one of the best corners
in the NFL. He is a good dude and an
awesome player. When you go all in, there is always
the risk that something bad happens and it's not season ending,
but the season doesn't have that much that much longer,
so like these on IR that's through all but the
last game, Like you're getting to that point where every
(02:10):
injury is like is he day to day or is
he season over? So always risky to go all in,
and in this case, this is literally the last thing
a Reel and Colts team could have happened.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I understanding is there's no determination yet made on injured
reserve that would be a minimum of four games. They'll
figure that out over the next couple of days. Here
might make sense just to give him the opportunity. I mean,
yesterday he was in a boot on the sideline, He
had crutches by his locker. He was moving really gingerly
through When I spoke with him, I mean, he was
optimistic that, hey, this is not going to be that long.
I'm going to be back out there. But TBD exactly
(02:45):
what that's going to be does not sound like he's
going to be out there for another huge AFC South
game against the Jaguars next week. We'll talk more about
the Colts, the Texans and that division in a bit,
but we also had a quarterback injury yesterday Mike to
a guy who I feel like there are three or
four times a year where he suffers an injury. It
sounds like something very significant and somehow justin Herbert ends
(03:07):
up playing the following week. Where do we stand right
now with the Chargers quarterback as they try to get
this thing going down.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
The stretch that might be the case in this one, Tom,
as he comes back in the game yesterday, played through it,
I mean playing through the actual injury. Now you're adding
surgery to it, which as we sit here right now,
has not yet happened. But it's going to happen here
on Monday, and then over the next couple of days.
I think they're going to get a better determination of
where he is and whether he's really got a shot.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
He's got the extra day.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
It's a Monday game, so that'll give him another twenty
four actually more than twenty four hours if it's going
from four pm Eastern to eight pm Eastern, so gives
him twenty eight hours extra to play in the game. Ian,
trust me, the math is good, and I just like
you said, Tom, just knowing the pattern of things that
(03:53):
have happened with Justin Herbert before. As I sit here
right now, sounds like they're hopeful that it is a
possible thing for him to play. I remember, you know
DeMarco Murray, and I'm not saying it's the same injury.
Remember DeMarco Murray had surgery on a Sunday and played
at the running back position just four.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
Or five days later or whatever it wound up. I
think I think it was a short week if I
recall correctly.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
But regardless, it sounds like, how are you playing after
hand surgery?
Speaker 5 (04:16):
It is possible, we've seen it. It's not his throwing hand,
so we shall see.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
I mean, the same guy a couple of years ago
had a high ankle sprain. It was like, there is
no chance he's playing. He went out there with about
three rolls of tape on that thing and just gutted
it out for a month, starting out, if I remember correctly,
in a game at Pittsburgh where Judy we had another
quarterback come back from an injury. This has been a
moving target with Aaron Rodgers, who was ian reported has
(04:43):
not just won, but multiple fractures in his left wrist.
He was wearing a pretty big whatever that thing was
on it yesterday went down once turned out that was
because I mean it looked like he'd emerged from fight
club with a cut on his nose. It was not
related to the wrist. But bottom line, however, close to
one hundred percent he was that Steelers offense does not
look one hundred percent at anything right now, And suddenly
(05:05):
it's six and six they're right back in that kind
of no man's land that we've seen the Steelers so
many times in recent years.
Speaker 6 (05:14):
And to be fair, they haven't looked one hundred percent
Even before he injured his wrist, they were his play
and their play has been declining over the last four
or five weeks. Obviously, he looked beaten up, and they
could barely move the ball last night. I mean they were.
They couldn't run on one of the worst, if not
(05:34):
the worst run defenses in the entire NFL. They just
could not get anything going. He is clearly frustrated with
his wide receivers, as we'll probably get to in a
little bit. He'd make clear in his postgame comments that
they're not on the same page. This looks nothing like
what it looked like in the first month of the season,
when it looked like they were going to run away
(05:54):
with the AFC North, when the Ravens, you know, got
off to such a terrible start in the steel were
on a roll early, and now it has all come back.
If you're trying to look on the bright side for
the Steelers, they've they've got both games against the Ravens
ahead of them, so you know, you could beat them,
and the Ravens are certainly not playing great either. Lamar's
(06:16):
got his own issues. I mean, the entire division is
kind of a mess, right, Like the best looking team
this weekend was the Bengals. Buy a lot in that division.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Two games back in the division games back.
Speaker 6 (06:28):
Joe Burrow looks by far the best quarterback in that division.
So but it's it's clearly not good for the Steelers
right now. They've got time to salvage it.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
But yeah, it's well, first of all, we kind of
do the same thing with the Steelers and the Ravens
where it's like, well, okay, so like obviously they're six
and six and they played just okay, but you know,
they do have two games against the other one, and
I'm thinking, I'm like, well, yes, but then they both
probably don't get in, right, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
If the Bengals kick it in, they basically have to
run the table.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
But like, only so many can get in, So we
really are looking at the possibility that one of those
teams finishes eight and nine or something like that and
doesn't get in. And that's just it's a weird world because, like,
you know, if you're the Steelers and they don't get
in the playoffs, which they always seem to do. Then
it raises all sorts of other questions. Tom, you mentioned
(07:19):
the brace on Aaron Rodgers left hand. My understanding is
that's so it the bone doesn't displace. In other words,
it's like together. For lack of a better way of that.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Fear is right if you have these types of the
smaller fractures, but if you were to fall on it
again in this displaces, that means the whole thing is out.
Now it's surgery. Now it's season ending, which is the
risk factor why they didn't play in the week before.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Yes, the risk factor and the risk factor I knew.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I saw this before, and I'm pretty sure that Amari
Cooper wore the same thing when he had a similar
fractured risk A couple Was it last.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Year when Amark Coople paid for the bills last year?
Speaker 5 (07:58):
Right? Yes?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yes, yes, Winterville last year, two years ago. So it
did look familiar. So that was the fear. I think
he'll be able to take snaps from under center next week.
But you're right, like they got a lot of stuff
to figure out in Pittsburgh, and like all those teams
the division aren't gonna make it. Maybe just one does,
or maybe one in the Bengal I don't know. It's
one of those teams need to go on a little
(08:20):
run here.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
Look, I can't get over the boeing of Renegade yesterday, and.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
Some of that probably could great Bill's.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Some of that probably came from some Bills fans because
they were there in force as they as they always are,
but a lot of it also came from Steelers fans.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
I've seen a lot of reaction on social media.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
This is starting to feel like a little bit bigger
than just are they going to make the playoffs?
Speaker 5 (08:43):
Are they going to win the division? This is starting
to feel like is this the end?
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Is this the end for a team that hasn't fired
a coach it was in nineteen sixty eight.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
I think that's all.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
But they're not going to fire Mike Tomlin. It might
and I don't I don't.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Cats didn't fire Tom Cofflin either, Right. I'm just saying like,
this just feels like when your fan base is reacting
the way.
Speaker 5 (09:10):
That they did yesterday, and yeah, nine and eight, if.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
They get to nine and eight, depending on how they
get I.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
Mean it depends like do they beat the Ravens. You know,
nine and eight's not going to get you a wild
card spot, I'll tell you that much.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
It just feels like they're spinning their wheels at this point.
I think that that's what the fan base is feeling
as well. And Mike Tomlin's probably going to be a
victim of his own success here because they've never had
a high enough draft pick to take one of the time.
Like think about how the Colts had Peyton Manning. He
didn't play for a year. They were horrendous. That was
the Andrew Luck draft. Great just kind of picked up
(09:44):
where you left.
Speaker 5 (09:45):
The Steelers have.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
Never had that, and uh, I'm not calling the end
of it, but I'm saying, if this keeps going the
way it's going, you just and I know how the
Steelers are.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
I you know, I mentioned the Giants with Kauflin.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
The Giants sort of are like like, at some point
you're going to look and see your fan base that
you are you want to please, and every team does,
but certainly them. I just I'm starting to season and
hear some stuff where it's like, where's this going to go?
Speaker 6 (10:12):
Well?
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Count count back to how many different quarterbacks they've had
since Ben Roethlisberger. They did take a first round pick
on Kenny Pickett, it was the first quarterback off the board.
There were a variety of reasons that didn't work out
for Kenny Pickett, who is now holding on to the
number two job for the moment with the Las Vegas Raiders.
You tried it with Russell Wilson at age thirty six
(10:33):
or whatever. Now you try with forty one year old
Aaron Rodgers. It shouldn't be a shock that those guys
aren't carrying the team. But there's also something to be
said for you'd like to think that everything else, the coaching,
the rest of the roster could elevate the level of
an older quarterback. We just haven't seen that in the aggregate.
The Broncos, course, were the team that cut Russell Wilson
(10:53):
prior to him.
Speaker 6 (10:53):
Can I just add, yeah, go ahead, Can I just
add one thing before we move on about the Steelers.
Mike Tomlin has been manufacturing victories for years now, since
Ben Roethlisberger was in his prime. And I would say
to those fans who certainly have a right to be
upset and expect more, but they have rich people problems, right,
Like how many fan bases would be thrilled to go
(11:15):
to the playoffs as often as the Steelers do, even
if they don't get to the mountaintop. What coach do
you think is going to do a better job manufacturing
victories and holding a team together when you don't have
competent quarterback play year after year after year. That is
the problem for the Steelers. If you're not fixing the
quarterback play, if you're not fixing the wide receiver room,
(11:37):
who do you think is going to get better results?
You got to have an answer to that before you
send Tomlins.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, I want to jump in here before I know
we're going to get to something else. But this is
sort of the problem, and this is why you see
a team like, I don't know. Let's say the Jets
be bold and say we're going to trade some of
our best players to get these first rounders because it
is the only way to get a quarterback.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
And the Steelers are never bad enough.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
The Peyton Manning example with the Colts is like the
perfect thing because everyone wishes they could have one horrific
injury that makes you so bad that it's really nobody's fault,
even though they ended up firing everyone there anyway, and
say all right, we're just going to start new.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
The Steelers are never bad enough.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
And so it's like, this is why teams say we
are going to trade our guys to get first multiple
first rounders, because that's the only way we get a guy.
And the Steelers just like I was thinking about them
this weekend, like I assume Rogers is not coming back.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
They're going to be in the same exact situation again
for like the sixth year in a row.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
But also we've seen other teams. I understand the frustration though,
and this is not just strictly a personnel issue. Omar
cons as aggressive as anybody in the NFL in terms
of trades and try and to upgrade the roster. Mike
Tomlin drives a lot at the most important position, and
these are Mike Tomlin decisions in many cases in terms
of how they go. He decided Russell Wilson, I'm naming
(12:59):
him the guy in the pole position coming into this thing.
He's going to be the quarterback this year was it
was Aaron Rodgers. There's other teams in those same couple
of years that have gone out and signed to Sam
Darnold won a bunch of games, or signed to Daniel
Jones and won a bunch of games. That's not to
say those guys will go to Pittsburgh and have better
results than what's there currently. The Broncos, which I was
getting to, are sitting there at number twelve and took
(13:20):
a guy in bow Knicks that there were plenty of
people around the NFL who thought this guy's a second
third round pick. He hasn't been great, Mike bo Nix
has not been perfect by any stretch this season, but
they're Broacos team that's ten and two, and much like
the Bears, who will talk about a little bit later,
it just feels like, however they get there in the
last few minutes of these games, Sean Payton and Vance
(13:42):
Joseph and those guys have coached them so well that
situationally they make the plays that they need to make,
and that's why we're looking at them being in the
mix right now for the number one seed.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
We had a spur of the moment impromptu middle of
the segment conversation Jamie.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
Heard on this throw a dust and Good Money Football
last week.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
He said, who's the team trust the most or who's
the most complete team, or however she phrased it. And
at the time, like you know, Manti said the Rams,
and I was like, yeah, it's a great and in
the Rams and they there's just no there's just no
team like that. So as I as I look at
the landscape, I go to the Broncos because they're the
(14:19):
ones making the plays at the right times of the game.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
It's not like Sean Payton's offense.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
You think back to New Orleans with Drew Brees and
five thousand yards passing, and you know, like I thought
Evan Ingram was going to go there and recapture the
magic and almost get a thousand yards. They looked up
his stats last night. He's got like three hundred yards
on the season. It's just not the same.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
One catch last night he had when they threw it
to him that.
Speaker 7 (14:46):
He's still But you can't really argue with it when
you go, well, look at the results and look at
them making plays at the right time again in the
fourth quarter, in overtime, doing what they need to do
to win football games.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
That's not usually what we've seen Sean Payton in the past.
We've seen that from his team this year. I'm super
impressed with that part, Judy.
Speaker 6 (15:06):
I do think they probably bone Nicks. You'd like to
see him be a little bit more level less up
and down if they're going to make a deep, deep
run into January, because he did have Like, the fourth
quarter was not good, right, they kept stalling the offense
couldn't they couldn't hold onto the ball. I mean, they
couldn't extend drives to keep the Commanders off the field.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
So the fourth quarter was not good.
Speaker 6 (15:29):
And then of course they go into overtime and he
has another one of these incredible winning game winning drives,
which they've now had whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
However, winning is five or.
Speaker 6 (15:37):
Six whatever the season, so he's clearly got confidence. Sean
Payton had a great quote a few weeks ago that
his clock goes fast, meaning Bonnix's clock goes fast, and
they needed to slow it down because sometimes when he's
under pressure, he sort of gets too too frantic. So
if they can just level that out just a little bit,
(16:01):
they are very I mean, the defense is obviously a
super Bowl caliber defense, and Sean Payton is a super
Bowl winning head coach, which you want in January. Then yeah,
there's no dominant team this year. Anybody who gets in
is going to be able to win it.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
I would say, real quick, the only way I'm starting
to learn, I've been doing this fourteen years.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
I'm starting to learn something.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Only a way to develop a young quarterbacks have an
awesome defense, I really think so. Like they all go
through these second year slumps. They all get to times
when they can't complete a pass and can't start a drive.
And if you have an awesome defense, like Houston's a
great example, you can prop these guys up enough to
where they can just relax and make a couple of plays.
And that's what's been happening with bo Nix and defense
(16:42):
is also don't slump. So I think them you know,
I think the Broncos will be one of the teams
that's in it till the end.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
We mentioned briefly all the discussion that I felt like
I saw on every show across every network last week
about the Rams or the team to beat. Are they
the most complete team? Are they the best team? All
the numbers they're putting up ian they go to face
the Panthers yesterday, a Carolina team that has been I
think it's fair to say up and down this season.
(17:13):
They've had some really bad losses. They've also had some
great wins. They beat the Packers a couple of weeks ago,
they now beat the Rams. They're a hard team to
figure out. Bryce Young is fun when he's rolling, and
to the extent that the Rams might have need a
little bit of a reality check about how good they
actually are. You would think a loss like that probably
(17:35):
serves that purpose.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yeah, there's a lot here for the Rams, and you're right,
reality check is a great way to describe it. But
I do want to talk about the Panthers for a
couple reasons. One is a couple of years ago, when
we were all talking about hot head coaching candidates, they
went and hired a guy who most people had never
heard of. And while a lot of people try to
(17:57):
get rid of their staff, he was like, I have
a really good defensive coordinator and I'm just going to
keep them. We're going to build up the offensive defensive lines,
and everyone's going to take a breath and we're going
to learn and try to do this the right way.
And so Bryce Young was really bad and everyone knew
he was a bust, and then they kind of took
a breath and focused on offensive defensive lines, running the
ball and getting him a position to succeed. And I
(18:20):
don't know that anyone's going to learn any lessons, but
just the world moves too fast. We all make decisions
way too fast. But it seems after a couple of
fall starts, the Carolina Panthers have really done.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
It the right way.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Right.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
They have built through the trenches. They have let their.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Quarterback have a little bit of time and try to
focus on only what he does well and put him
in position to succeed. And they took a coach who
nobody else wanted but was good for them and let
him kind of build it out. And it's not perfect, obviously,
and they really have been up and down win loss, win, loss,
win loss, but they're in position to make the playoffs.
(18:58):
And for what Carolina has dealt with over the last decade,
that is unbelievable progress. And I think Mike a very
very cool thing to see Dave Canalis.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
I mean this started last year with them when they
were going toe to toe with some teams. Even when
they were losing, they were losing in overtime. There's a
Buccaneers game they lost in overtime. There's a Chiefs game
where they played extremely well and so to close.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
And that's why to me, I remember it. Judy, I
apologize for this.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
I remember a segment in the summer we were talking
about which team could get off to a fast start
or whatever, and Judy, I.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
Don't even think I was in the segment. I was like, hey, Judy,
why do you say the Panthers. She was like, YEA,
that's a Goodea, it's a Pathers.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
Because they finished so strong last year and I think
the schedule sort of set up, you know whatever, and
she agreed with me, and we both talked about it.
Speaker 7 (19:44):
I was like, it was great, and then they got
off to a horrific, star horrifect start and I was like,
wait a second, Like, are my eyes deceiving me.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I was hoping nobody would remember that, but he did.
In fairness, he did take it the blame on himself.
You just got brought along for the ride, which happened sometimes.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
We were kind of kicking some ideas around.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
It's why, you know, when we don't here, we go
get we talk about stuff in the off season, they
don't pay any attention to it because frankly half.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
It's not gonna be true.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
But I just remember thinking last year how well they
played down the stretch and that that would carry over.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
And then it didn't.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
I was like, oh boy, so now here they come again,
sort of doing the same stuff. I did look at
this after the game yesterday. They've got two games against
the Buccaneers. Even if they win those two games, that
gets into nine wins.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
Tampa's probably getting to ten, no matter what I mean.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
If we're playing this out here, They've got the Saints
next week, that's got to be a win. They've got
the Falcons and the Dolphins are the other games, so
you figure two of the three they're gonna win. You know,
it's it seems like it's gonna be an uphill battle
even to make the playoffs. But if they don't, ideally
this time, you carry that momentum into next year and
you realize you're.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
Going toe to toe with teams.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
I still think like they could be better from a
talent standpoint, and it's a process of getting there because
they had a little sputtering when it came to the
roster for the last couple of years. I'm looking forward.
I'm not calling it for twenty six, but I am
looking or twenty five. I am looking forward, Judy that
Panthers in twenty six.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Well, now here's my question now for Judy. Don't listen
to whatever Mike is saying here, but after what you
saw yesterday, clearly you can you see the Seahawks go
up against Listen. It's an undrafted rookie quarterback in his
first game, a Vikings team that's just got a total
system failure in terms of what they're trying to do
right now, and it's hard to watch. Kevin O'Connell's a
(21:25):
really good coach, it's just it's not working right now.
But the Seahawks roll again. You've got the forty nine
ers who, despite all their injuries, Brock Purdy is starting
to look like Brock Purdy again, which is a big deal,
and there was a lot of rust to shake off.
Who do you have right now in the NFC North,
Who's the team I frame with you this year? Who's
the team you don't want to face if you're seeing
(21:46):
these guys down the stretching into the playoffs.
Speaker 6 (21:49):
In the NFC West, I still believe that it's the Rams.
Like I did not look last yesterday. It was an upset.
I didn't think the Rams were going to win every
game coming down the stretch, and I didn't think Matthew
Stafford was never going to throw another interception. Even really good, solid,
well coached, well put together teams have blips have bad days.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
This was one of them for the Rams.
Speaker 6 (22:14):
They are still an incredibly balanced, incredibly talented, very well
coached organization. I still look at them and see the
division champion San Francisco. Kyle Shanahan is probably not going
to win Coach of the Year, right, Probably not. He
maybe should, he certainly should get strong consideration the fact
(22:37):
that they are this deep into the season with all
of those massive injuries. We've been talking about them literally
since Week one, the injuries, and they're still winning games
and still in it this deep. It's a tremendous coaching job.
I just don't know if it would be sustainable all.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
The way through.
Speaker 6 (22:53):
I like Seattle a lot. I just have more confidence
in Matthew Stafford than I do in Sam Garnold in
the big moments. Is the margin for me, it's the
Rams in my head still.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, I mean the Seahawks are weird though, because, like you, know,
we do all these shows, we have all these conversations,
and there's almost nothing to talk.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
About with Seattle. It's very strange.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Like they play great defense, they have a pretty strong
running game. They have a quarterback who's who's definitely good,
who has been on.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
The show, who we like, who Judy called a funny nickname.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
You don't think there's a lot to talk about with
the receiver who up until yesterday was on pace for
the first two thousand yard season, or the defense.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Nobody talks about them.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Nothing makes makes that like.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
There's no no, there really isn't.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
I mean seriously, like watching this somewhere and you're gonna
get it.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Sure, No, it's good. It's good. There's no issues.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I mean, they're just a really good, relatively boring team.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
I mean even like.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Like their best receiver, who has become one of the
best receivers in the NFL, is someone who most people
hadn't heard of unless you were like a huge college
football fan before this year.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Like, it's really interesting they are.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
They're quiet, they're very business like, there's not a lot
of headlines. They are just awesome and so like, I
don't know where they're going to be seed wise or
ranking wise, but like God forbid, they get a bunch
of home games, that's going to be that place is
going to be insane.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
And like they are.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
You know, we all talk about like the way people
have rebuilt, and like they the way they've rebuilt on
the fine including changing out their quarterback twice since Russell Wilson,
has been unbelievable, and they have built a juggernaut that
seems like they're not going anywhere.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Well, we just put the standings up. There's three teams
in that division with nine wins right now, so you're right,
they could end up being I mean, heck, at this point,
they could end up being the number one seed, but
they also could be the five to six seven seed.
This is the same Seahawks team. To remember last year
Mike McDonald's first season went ten and seven and did
not make the playoffs. So, like you, you better be thinking,
we got to get to eleven, We got to get
(24:57):
to twelve, whatever it's going to take, because you've got
a really competitive NFC North right now, the potential get
multiple playoff teams. The Cowboys probably have to catch the Eagles.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
It's play again, yes, play one more time.
Speaker 5 (25:12):
Play one more time play in week sixteen.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
You would think the NFC South and the FC East
Mic right, are probably going to be racist to win
the division. One team gets in and then it's gonna
be some combination of the other two teams, the NFC
West and the other two teams in the NFC North.
One of those teams is getting left out. There's only
three wild cards somebody between. Out of the six teams
all right, Ian's making faces, the Rams, Seahawks, forty nine Ers,
(25:40):
the Lions, Bears, and Packers. They are all packed in
those divisions. One of those teams at least is not
making the playoffs, which Mike makes. I mean, all these
games for these next five weeks here absolutely enormous for
all those teams.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
But throw the Cowboys are six five and one, So
if the Cowboys, if the Cowboys beat the Lions, it's
like then we'll talk Cowboys. And you got to say
the Lions are probably on the outside looking at at
that point.
Speaker 5 (26:01):
I mean they're currently on the outside.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
But like the third wild car team right now, Thanksgiving
was the other day. In case you forgot, the third
wildcar team is the is the Niners. They have nine wins,
so nuts like eleven might not get you in.
Speaker 5 (26:19):
This is kind And I was smiling when Tom.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
Was talking about the Seahawks could be anywhere from one
to seven or potentially even out. It's it's Sam Darnold
from last year all over again with the Bikings. It's like, hey,
we're playing for the one seat. Also, we could be
on the last team to get into the playoffs based on.
Speaker 5 (26:34):
The the seating or whatever it wound up in it.
So there was.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Unlike Ian, I think the Seahawks are entertaining. Ernest Jones
certainly made it entertaining yesterday. Give love to DeMarcus Lawrence
on the front part of that play.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
The way that he was dragging down.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
I was almost afraid that like he was gonna blow
it with like a horse collar, But he just dragged
Brosmer down sort of by his by his arm. So
he did everything he could to get that done. It
took a while to get going for the Seahawks offensively,
and certainly the defensive touchdown help them. I just we're gonna,
We're gonna keep coming back to that's great. What was
the score twenty six nothing yesterday or whatever it was.
(27:08):
I'm like, oh great, Sam Donald, awesome, Okay, Sam Donald's
now Rams Thursday Rams Thursday Night, and I said, they
play it. They played Rams on Thursday. Who has the
Thursday night games again? And I forget who broadcast them?
Could be in a It's Prime video. Take care of
your people, go.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
To the button works well on the pregame show. I
mean I do I mute it. I don't. I don't
need to hear more of him. All right, Hey, well
we gotta take a break. If you are catching us
on the podcast, it's a two parter every Monday, so
go over catch parts. You're watching on youtubet, you're watching
on the NFL channel. I have it, I projected, but
(27:45):
I mute it. On the they use the Sonos thing.
Speaker 7 (27:47):
It's great.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Uh, catch us over there. We will talk about the
AFC South race, which again tightened up yesterday with the
Jaguars when the Texans beating the Colts. We will talk
about Schor Sanders. Also rewind to all the various movement
that occurred in the NFC North and the NFC East
last week. So for Mike Judy Ian, I'm Tom. We'll
(28:09):
see you over there.
Babby. Monday, everyone, and welcome Inside with the Insiders, a
Monday podcast edition. We got a full house here from
clockwise bottom left, Mike Garafalo, Judy Battista, No Wrongway, Ian
and Ian Rappaport. I am Tom Pellissero. As we do
every Monday, we will get into all the fallout from
(00:27):
all the games on Sunday, we also take a look
back at a wild Thanksgiving and Black Friday, talk about
the broader scope of things across the NFL. But let's
start as we always do on Mondays by talking injuries,
and one of them Ian occurred at the game that
I was at yesterday. Sauce Gardner had the dreaded something
(00:48):
happens in his lower body. He turns around to look
behind him, wondering exactly what happened. I talked with Sauce
in the locker room after the game. He said he
felt like he got shot. It was at the top
of his calf, not the bottom. This is not an Achilles' tear,
This is not a long term injury. But for a
Colts team that's kind of hit a rocky patch here,
(01:10):
they may be without their all pro corner for a
bit here.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, I mean it is a calf strain, I would
say mild calf strain.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
So probably a few weeks for sauce Gardner.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Now you know, they'll make the determination whether or not
they put them on IR.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
We'll see.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I'm not sure we'll know that today, but we'll see
a lot of times those come on Tuesday or maybe
Wednesday morning. But probably in that window where like might
go on iron might not. So probably a couple of
weeks for the Colts. He's a really good player. But
it's also significant for me in another reason. They kind
of went all in on sauce Gardner, right, and they
traded two first rounders. He is sort of the missing
(01:50):
piece on their defense. He's one of the best corners
in the NFL. He is a good dude and an
awesome player. When you go all in, there is always
the risk that something bad happens and it's not season ending,
but the season doesn't have that much that much longer,
so like these on IR that's through all but the
last game, Like you're getting to that point where every
(02:10):
injury is like is he day to day or is
he season over? So always risky to go all in,
and in this case, this is literally the last thing
a Reel and Colts team could have happened.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I understanding is there's no determination yet made on injured
reserve that would be a minimum of four games. They'll
figure that out over the next couple of days. Here
might make sense just to give him the opportunity. I mean,
yesterday he was in a boot on the sideline, He
had crutches by his locker. He was moving really gingerly
through When I spoke with him, I mean, he was
optimistic that, hey, this is not going to be that long.
I'm going to be back out there. But TBD exactly
(02:45):
what that's going to be does not sound like he's
going to be out there for another huge AFC South
game against the Jaguars next week. We'll talk more about
the Colts, the Texans and that division in a bit,
but we also had a quarterback injury yesterday Mike to
a guy who I feel like there are three or
four times a year where he suffers an injury. It
sounds like something very significant and somehow justin Herbert ends
(03:07):
up playing the following week. Where do we stand right
now with the Chargers quarterback as they try to get
this thing going down.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
The stretch that might be the case in this one, Tom,
as he comes back in the game yesterday, played through it,
I mean playing through the actual injury. Now you're adding
surgery to it, which as we sit here right now,
has not yet happened. But it's going to happen here
on Monday, and then over the next couple of days.
I think they're going to get a better determination of
where he is and whether he's really got a shot.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
He's got the extra day.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
It's a Monday game, so that'll give him another twenty
four actually more than twenty four hours if it's going
from four pm Eastern to eight pm Eastern, so gives
him twenty eight hours extra to play in the game. Ian,
trust me, the math is good, and I just like
you said, Tom, just knowing the pattern of things that
(03:53):
have happened with Justin Herbert before. As I sit here
right now, sounds like they're hopeful that it is a
possible thing for him to play. I remember, you know
DeMarco Murray, and I'm not saying it's the same injury.
Remember DeMarco Murray had surgery on a Sunday and played
at the running back position just four.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
Or five days later or whatever it wound up. I
think I think it was a short week if I
recall correctly.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
But regardless, it sounds like, how are you playing after
hand surgery?
Speaker 5 (04:16):
It is possible, we've seen it. It's not his throwing hand,
so we shall see.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
I mean, the same guy a couple of years ago
had a high ankle sprain. It was like, there is
no chance he's playing. He went out there with about
three rolls of tape on that thing and just gutted
it out for a month, starting out, if I remember correctly,
in a game at Pittsburgh where Judy we had another
quarterback come back from an injury. This has been a
moving target with Aaron Rodgers, who was ian reported has
(04:43):
not just won, but multiple fractures in his left wrist.
He was wearing a pretty big whatever that thing was
on it yesterday went down once turned out that was
because I mean it looked like he'd emerged from fight
club with a cut on his nose. It was not
related to the wrist. But bottom line, however, close to
one hundred percent he was that Steelers offense does not
look one hundred percent at anything right now, And suddenly
(05:05):
it's six and six they're right back in that kind
of no man's land that we've seen the Steelers so
many times in recent years.
Speaker 6 (05:14):
And to be fair, they haven't looked one hundred percent
Even before he injured his wrist, they were his play
and their play has been declining over the last four
or five weeks. Obviously, he looked beaten up, and they
could barely move the ball last night. I mean they were.
They couldn't run on one of the worst, if not
(05:34):
the worst run defenses in the entire NFL. They just
could not get anything going. He is clearly frustrated with
his wide receivers, as we'll probably get to in a
little bit. He'd make clear in his postgame comments that
they're not on the same page. This looks nothing like
what it looked like in the first month of the season,
when it looked like they were going to run away
(05:54):
with the AFC North, when the Ravens, you know, got
off to such a terrible start in the steel were
on a roll early, and now it has all come back.
If you're trying to look on the bright side for
the Steelers, they've they've got both games against the Ravens
ahead of them, so you know, you could beat them,
and the Ravens are certainly not playing great either. Lamar's
(06:16):
got his own issues. I mean, the entire division is
kind of a mess, right, Like the best looking team
this weekend was the Bengals. Buy a lot in that division.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Two games back in the division games back.
Speaker 6 (06:28):
Joe Burrow looks by far the best quarterback in that division.
So but it's it's clearly not good for the Steelers
right now. They've got time to salvage it.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
But yeah, it's well, first of all, we kind of
do the same thing with the Steelers and the Ravens
where it's like, well, okay, so like obviously they're six
and six and they played just okay, but you know,
they do have two games against the other one, and
I'm thinking, I'm like, well, yes, but then they both
probably don't get in, right, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
If the Bengals kick it in, they basically have to
run the table.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
But like, only so many can get in, So we
really are looking at the possibility that one of those
teams finishes eight and nine or something like that and
doesn't get in. And that's just it's a weird world because, like,
you know, if you're the Steelers and they don't get
in the playoffs, which they always seem to do. Then
it raises all sorts of other questions. Tom, you mentioned
(07:19):
the brace on Aaron Rodgers left hand. My understanding is
that's so it the bone doesn't displace. In other words,
it's like together. For lack of a better way of that.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Fear is right if you have these types of the
smaller fractures, but if you were to fall on it
again in this displaces, that means the whole thing is out.
Now it's surgery. Now it's season ending, which is the
risk factor why they didn't play in the week before.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Yes, the risk factor and the risk factor I knew.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I saw this before, and I'm pretty sure that Amari
Cooper wore the same thing when he had a similar
fractured risk A couple Was it last.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Year when Amark Coople paid for the bills last year?
Speaker 5 (07:58):
Right? Yes?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yes, yes, Winterville last year, two years ago. So it
did look familiar. So that was the fear. I think
he'll be able to take snaps from under center next week.
But you're right, like they got a lot of stuff
to figure out in Pittsburgh, and like all those teams
the division aren't gonna make it. Maybe just one does,
or maybe one in the Bengal I don't know. It's
one of those teams need to go on a little
(08:20):
run here.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
Look, I can't get over the boeing of Renegade yesterday, and.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
Some of that probably could great Bill's.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Some of that probably came from some Bills fans because
they were there in force as they as they always are,
but a lot of it also came from Steelers fans.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
I've seen a lot of reaction on social media.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
This is starting to feel like a little bit bigger
than just are they going to make the playoffs?
Speaker 5 (08:43):
Are they going to win the division? This is starting
to feel like is this the end?
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Is this the end for a team that hasn't fired
a coach it was in nineteen sixty eight.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
I think that's all.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
But they're not going to fire Mike Tomlin. It might
and I don't I don't.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Cats didn't fire Tom Cofflin either, Right. I'm just saying like,
this just feels like when your fan base is reacting
the way.
Speaker 5 (09:10):
That they did yesterday, and yeah, nine and eight, if.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
They get to nine and eight, depending on how they
get I.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
Mean it depends like do they beat the Ravens. You know,
nine and eight's not going to get you a wild
card spot, I'll tell you that much.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
It just feels like they're spinning their wheels at this point.
I think that that's what the fan base is feeling
as well. And Mike Tomlin's probably going to be a
victim of his own success here because they've never had
a high enough draft pick to take one of the time.
Like think about how the Colts had Peyton Manning. He
didn't play for a year. They were horrendous. That was
the Andrew Luck draft. Great just kind of picked up
(09:44):
where you left.
Speaker 5 (09:45):
The Steelers have.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
Never had that, and uh, I'm not calling the end
of it, but I'm saying, if this keeps going the
way it's going, you just and I know how the
Steelers are.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
I you know, I mentioned the Giants with Kauflin.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
The Giants sort of are like like, at some point
you're going to look and see your fan base that
you are you want to please, and every team does,
but certainly them. I just I'm starting to season and
hear some stuff where it's like, where's this going to go?
Speaker 6 (10:12):
Well?
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Count count back to how many different quarterbacks they've had
since Ben Roethlisberger. They did take a first round pick
on Kenny Pickett, it was the first quarterback off the board.
There were a variety of reasons that didn't work out
for Kenny Pickett, who is now holding on to the
number two job for the moment with the Las Vegas Raiders.
You tried it with Russell Wilson at age thirty six
(10:33):
or whatever. Now you try with forty one year old
Aaron Rodgers. It shouldn't be a shock that those guys
aren't carrying the team. But there's also something to be
said for you'd like to think that everything else, the coaching,
the rest of the roster could elevate the level of
an older quarterback. We just haven't seen that in the aggregate.
The Broncos, course, were the team that cut Russell Wilson
(10:53):
prior to him.
Speaker 6 (10:53):
Can I just add, yeah, go ahead, Can I just
add one thing before we move on about the Steelers.
Mike Tomlin has been manufacturing victories for years now, since
Ben Roethlisberger was in his prime. And I would say
to those fans who certainly have a right to be
upset and expect more, but they have rich people problems, right,
Like how many fan bases would be thrilled to go
(11:15):
to the playoffs as often as the Steelers do, even
if they don't get to the mountaintop. What coach do
you think is going to do a better job manufacturing
victories and holding a team together when you don't have
competent quarterback play year after year after year. That is
the problem for the Steelers. If you're not fixing the
quarterback play, if you're not fixing the wide receiver room,
(11:37):
who do you think is going to get better results?
You got to have an answer to that before you
send Tomlins.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, I want to jump in here before I know
we're going to get to something else. But this is
sort of the problem, and this is why you see
a team like, I don't know. Let's say the Jets
be bold and say we're going to trade some of
our best players to get these first rounders because it
is the only way to get a quarterback.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
And the Steelers are never bad enough.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
The Peyton Manning example with the Colts is like the
perfect thing because everyone wishes they could have one horrific
injury that makes you so bad that it's really nobody's fault,
even though they ended up firing everyone there anyway, and
say all right, we're just going to start new.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
The Steelers are never bad enough.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
And so it's like, this is why teams say we
are going to trade our guys to get first multiple
first rounders, because that's the only way we get a guy.
And the Steelers just like I was thinking about them
this weekend, like I assume Rogers is not coming back.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
They're going to be in the same exact situation again
for like the sixth year in a row.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
But also we've seen other teams. I understand the frustration though,
and this is not just strictly a personnel issue. Omar
cons as aggressive as anybody in the NFL in terms
of trades and try and to upgrade the roster. Mike
Tomlin drives a lot at the most important position, and
these are Mike Tomlin decisions in many cases in terms
of how they go. He decided Russell Wilson, I'm naming
(12:59):
him the guy in the pole position coming into this thing.
He's going to be the quarterback this year was it
was Aaron Rodgers. There's other teams in those same couple
of years that have gone out and signed to Sam
Darnold won a bunch of games, or signed to Daniel
Jones and won a bunch of games. That's not to
say those guys will go to Pittsburgh and have better
results than what's there currently. The Broncos, which I was
getting to, are sitting there at number twelve and took
(13:20):
a guy in bow Knicks that there were plenty of
people around the NFL who thought this guy's a second
third round pick. He hasn't been great, Mike bo Nix
has not been perfect by any stretch this season, but
they're Broacos team that's ten and two, and much like
the Bears, who will talk about a little bit later,
it just feels like, however they get there in the
last few minutes of these games, Sean Payton and Vance
(13:42):
Joseph and those guys have coached them so well that
situationally they make the plays that they need to make,
and that's why we're looking at them being in the
mix right now for the number one seed.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
We had a spur of the moment impromptu middle of
the segment conversation Jamie.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
Heard on this throw a dust and Good Money Football
last week.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
He said, who's the team trust the most or who's
the most complete team, or however she phrased it. And
at the time, like you know, Manti said the Rams,
and I was like, yeah, it's a great and in
the Rams and they there's just no there's just no
team like that. So as I as I look at
the landscape, I go to the Broncos because they're the
(14:19):
ones making the plays at the right times of the game.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
It's not like Sean Payton's offense.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
You think back to New Orleans with Drew Brees and
five thousand yards passing, and you know, like I thought
Evan Ingram was going to go there and recapture the
magic and almost get a thousand yards. They looked up
his stats last night. He's got like three hundred yards
on the season. It's just not the same.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
One catch last night he had when they threw it
to him that.
Speaker 7 (14:46):
He's still But you can't really argue with it when
you go, well, look at the results and look at
them making plays at the right time again in the
fourth quarter, in overtime, doing what they need to do
to win football games.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
That's not usually what we've seen Sean Payton in the past.
We've seen that from his team this year. I'm super
impressed with that part, Judy.
Speaker 6 (15:06):
I do think they probably bone Nicks. You'd like to
see him be a little bit more level less up
and down if they're going to make a deep, deep
run into January, because he did have Like, the fourth
quarter was not good, right, they kept stalling the offense
couldn't they couldn't hold onto the ball. I mean, they
couldn't extend drives to keep the Commanders off the field.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
So the fourth quarter was not good.
Speaker 6 (15:29):
And then of course they go into overtime and he
has another one of these incredible winning game winning drives,
which they've now had whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
However, winning is five or.
Speaker 6 (15:37):
Six whatever the season, so he's clearly got confidence. Sean
Payton had a great quote a few weeks ago that
his clock goes fast, meaning Bonnix's clock goes fast, and
they needed to slow it down because sometimes when he's
under pressure, he sort of gets too too frantic. So
if they can just level that out just a little bit,
(16:01):
they are very I mean, the defense is obviously a
super Bowl caliber defense, and Sean Payton is a super
Bowl winning head coach, which you want in January. Then yeah,
there's no dominant team this year. Anybody who gets in
is going to be able to win it.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
I would say, real quick, the only way I'm starting
to learn, I've been doing this fourteen years.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
I'm starting to learn something.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Only a way to develop a young quarterbacks have an
awesome defense, I really think so. Like they all go
through these second year slumps. They all get to times
when they can't complete a pass and can't start a drive.
And if you have an awesome defense, like Houston's a
great example, you can prop these guys up enough to
where they can just relax and make a couple of plays.
And that's what's been happening with bo Nix and defense
(16:42):
is also don't slump. So I think them you know,
I think the Broncos will be one of the teams
that's in it till the end.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
We mentioned briefly all the discussion that I felt like
I saw on every show across every network last week
about the Rams or the team to beat. Are they
the most complete team? Are they the best team? All
the numbers they're putting up ian they go to face
the Panthers yesterday, a Carolina team that has been I
think it's fair to say up and down this season.
(17:13):
They've had some really bad losses. They've also had some
great wins. They beat the Packers a couple of weeks ago,
they now beat the Rams. They're a hard team to
figure out. Bryce Young is fun when he's rolling, and
to the extent that the Rams might have need a
little bit of a reality check about how good they
actually are. You would think a loss like that probably
(17:35):
serves that purpose.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yeah, there's a lot here for the Rams, and you're right,
reality check is a great way to describe it. But
I do want to talk about the Panthers for a
couple reasons. One is a couple of years ago, when
we were all talking about hot head coaching candidates, they
went and hired a guy who most people had never
heard of. And while a lot of people try to
(17:57):
get rid of their staff, he was like, I have
a really good defensive coordinator and I'm just going to
keep them. We're going to build up the offensive defensive lines,
and everyone's going to take a breath and we're going
to learn and try to do this the right way.
And so Bryce Young was really bad and everyone knew
he was a bust, and then they kind of took
a breath and focused on offensive defensive lines, running the
ball and getting him a position to succeed. And I
(18:20):
don't know that anyone's going to learn any lessons, but
just the world moves too fast. We all make decisions
way too fast. But it seems after a couple of
fall starts, the Carolina Panthers have really done.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
It the right way.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Right.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
They have built through the trenches. They have let their.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Quarterback have a little bit of time and try to
focus on only what he does well and put him
in position to succeed. And they took a coach who
nobody else wanted but was good for them and let
him kind of build it out. And it's not perfect, obviously,
and they really have been up and down win loss, win, loss,
win loss, but they're in position to make the playoffs.
(18:58):
And for what Carolina has dealt with over the last decade,
that is unbelievable progress. And I think Mike a very
very cool thing to see Dave Canalis.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
I mean this started last year with them when they
were going toe to toe with some teams. Even when
they were losing, they were losing in overtime. There's a
Buccaneers game they lost in overtime. There's a Chiefs game
where they played extremely well and so to close.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
And that's why to me, I remember it. Judy, I
apologize for this.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
I remember a segment in the summer we were talking
about which team could get off to a fast start
or whatever, and Judy, I.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
Don't even think I was in the segment. I was like, hey, Judy,
why do you say the Panthers. She was like, YEA,
that's a Goodea, it's a Pathers.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
Because they finished so strong last year and I think
the schedule sort of set up, you know whatever, and
she agreed with me, and we both talked about it.
Speaker 7 (19:44):
I was like, it was great, and then they got
off to a horrific, star horrifect start and I was like,
wait a second, Like, are my eyes deceiving me.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I was hoping nobody would remember that, but he did.
In fairness, he did take it the blame on himself.
You just got brought along for the ride, which happened sometimes.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
We were kind of kicking some ideas around.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
It's why, you know, when we don't here, we go
get we talk about stuff in the off season, they
don't pay any attention to it because frankly half.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
It's not gonna be true.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
But I just remember thinking last year how well they
played down the stretch and that that would carry over.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
And then it didn't.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
I was like, oh boy, so now here they come again,
sort of doing the same stuff. I did look at
this after the game yesterday. They've got two games against
the Buccaneers. Even if they win those two games, that
gets into nine wins.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
Tampa's probably getting to ten, no matter what I mean.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
If we're playing this out here, They've got the Saints
next week, that's got to be a win. They've got
the Falcons and the Dolphins are the other games, so
you figure two of the three they're gonna win. You know,
it's it seems like it's gonna be an uphill battle
even to make the playoffs. But if they don't, ideally
this time, you carry that momentum into next year and
you realize you're.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
Going toe to toe with teams.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
I still think like they could be better from a
talent standpoint, and it's a process of getting there because
they had a little sputtering when it came to the
roster for the last couple of years. I'm looking forward.
I'm not calling it for twenty six, but I am
looking or twenty five. I am looking forward, Judy that
Panthers in twenty six.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Well, now here's my question now for Judy. Don't listen
to whatever Mike is saying here, but after what you
saw yesterday, clearly you can you see the Seahawks go
up against Listen. It's an undrafted rookie quarterback in his
first game, a Vikings team that's just got a total
system failure in terms of what they're trying to do
right now, and it's hard to watch. Kevin O'Connell's a
(21:25):
really good coach, it's just it's not working right now.
But the Seahawks roll again. You've got the forty nine
ers who, despite all their injuries, Brock Purdy is starting
to look like Brock Purdy again, which is a big deal,
and there was a lot of rust to shake off.
Who do you have right now in the NFC North,
Who's the team I frame with you this year? Who's
the team you don't want to face if you're seeing
(21:46):
these guys down the stretching into the playoffs.
Speaker 6 (21:49):
In the NFC West, I still believe that it's the Rams.
Like I did not look last yesterday. It was an upset.
I didn't think the Rams were going to win every
game coming down the stretch, and I didn't think Matthew
Stafford was never going to throw another interception. Even really good, solid,
well coached, well put together teams have blips have bad days.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
This was one of them for the Rams.
Speaker 6 (22:14):
They are still an incredibly balanced, incredibly talented, very well
coached organization. I still look at them and see the
division champion San Francisco. Kyle Shanahan is probably not going
to win Coach of the Year, right, Probably not. He
maybe should, he certainly should get strong consideration the fact
(22:37):
that they are this deep into the season with all
of those massive injuries. We've been talking about them literally
since Week one, the injuries, and they're still winning games
and still in it this deep. It's a tremendous coaching job.
I just don't know if it would be sustainable all.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
The way through.
Speaker 6 (22:53):
I like Seattle a lot. I just have more confidence
in Matthew Stafford than I do in Sam Garnold in
the big moments. Is the margin for me, it's the
Rams in my head still.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, I mean the Seahawks are weird though, because, like you, know,
we do all these shows, we have all these conversations,
and there's almost nothing to talk.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
About with Seattle. It's very strange.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Like they play great defense, they have a pretty strong
running game. They have a quarterback who's who's definitely good,
who has been on.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
The show, who we like, who Judy called a funny nickname.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
You don't think there's a lot to talk about with
the receiver who up until yesterday was on pace for
the first two thousand yard season, or the defense.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Nobody talks about them.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Nothing makes makes that like.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
There's no no, there really isn't.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
I mean seriously, like watching this somewhere and you're gonna
get it.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Sure, No, it's good. It's good. There's no issues.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I mean, they're just a really good, relatively boring team.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
I mean even like.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Like their best receiver, who has become one of the
best receivers in the NFL, is someone who most people
hadn't heard of unless you were like a huge college
football fan before this year.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Like, it's really interesting they are.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
They're quiet, they're very business like, there's not a lot
of headlines. They are just awesome and so like, I
don't know where they're going to be seed wise or
ranking wise, but like God forbid, they get a bunch
of home games, that's going to be that place is
going to be insane.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
And like they are.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
You know, we all talk about like the way people
have rebuilt, and like they the way they've rebuilt on
the fine including changing out their quarterback twice since Russell Wilson,
has been unbelievable, and they have built a juggernaut that
seems like they're not going anywhere.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Well, we just put the standings up. There's three teams
in that division with nine wins right now, so you're right,
they could end up being I mean, heck, at this point,
they could end up being the number one seed, but
they also could be the five to six seven seed.
This is the same Seahawks team. To remember last year
Mike McDonald's first season went ten and seven and did
not make the playoffs. So, like you, you better be thinking,
we got to get to eleven, We got to get
(24:57):
to twelve, whatever it's going to take, because you've got
a really competitive NFC North right now, the potential get
multiple playoff teams. The Cowboys probably have to catch the Eagles.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
It's play again, yes, play one more time.
Speaker 5 (25:12):
Play one more time play in week sixteen.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
You would think the NFC South and the FC East
Mic right, are probably going to be racist to win
the division. One team gets in and then it's gonna
be some combination of the other two teams, the NFC
West and the other two teams in the NFC North.
One of those teams is getting left out. There's only
three wild cards somebody between. Out of the six teams
all right, Ian's making faces, the Rams, Seahawks, forty nine Ers,
(25:40):
the Lions, Bears, and Packers. They are all packed in
those divisions. One of those teams at least is not
making the playoffs, which Mike makes. I mean, all these
games for these next five weeks here absolutely enormous for
all those teams.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
But throw the Cowboys are six five and one, So
if the Cowboys, if the Cowboys beat the Lions, it's
like then we'll talk Cowboys. And you got to say
the Lions are probably on the outside looking at at
that point.
Speaker 5 (26:01):
I mean they're currently on the outside.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
But like the third wild car team right now, Thanksgiving
was the other day. In case you forgot, the third
wildcar team is the is the Niners. They have nine wins,
so nuts like eleven might not get you in.
Speaker 5 (26:19):
This is kind And I was smiling when Tom.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
Was talking about the Seahawks could be anywhere from one
to seven or potentially even out. It's it's Sam Darnold
from last year all over again with the Bikings. It's like, hey,
we're playing for the one seat. Also, we could be
on the last team to get into the playoffs based on.
Speaker 5 (26:34):
The the seating or whatever it wound up in it.
So there was.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Unlike Ian, I think the Seahawks are entertaining. Ernest Jones
certainly made it entertaining yesterday. Give love to DeMarcus Lawrence
on the front part of that play.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
The way that he was dragging down.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
I was almost afraid that like he was gonna blow
it with like a horse collar, But he just dragged
Brosmer down sort of by his by his arm. So
he did everything he could to get that done. It
took a while to get going for the Seahawks offensively,
and certainly the defensive touchdown help them. I just we're gonna,
We're gonna keep coming back to that's great. What was
the score twenty six nothing yesterday or whatever it was.
(27:08):
I'm like, oh great, Sam Donald, awesome, Okay, Sam Donald's
now Rams Thursday Rams Thursday Night, and I said, they
play it. They played Rams on Thursday. Who has the
Thursday night games again? And I forget who broadcast them?
Could be in a It's Prime video. Take care of
your people, go.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
To the button works well on the pregame show. I
mean I do I mute it. I don't. I don't
need to hear more of him. All right, Hey, well
we gotta take a break. If you are catching us
on the podcast, it's a two parter every Monday, so
go over catch parts. You're watching on youtubet, you're watching
on the NFL channel. I have it, I projected, but
(27:45):
I mute it. On the they use the Sonos thing.
Speaker 7 (27:47):
It's great.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Uh, catch us over there. We will talk about the
AFC South race, which again tightened up yesterday with the
Jaguars when the Texans beating the Colts. We will talk
about Schor Sanders. Also rewind to all the various movement
that occurred in the NFC North and the NFC East
last week. So for Mike Judy Ian, I'm Tom. We'll
(28:09):
see you over there.
Hosts And Creators
Judy Battista
Tom Pelissero
Ian Rapaport
Mike Garafolo
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