NFL Network Insiders Tom Pelissero, Ian Rapoport, Judy Battista, and Mike Garafolo share their reactions to Aaron Rodgers and the Steelers comprehensive win over the Ravens.
Judy shares her biggest winners and losers of Week 14, and the Insiders deliberate on whether Shedeur Sanders has done enough to convince the Browns to pass on drafting another QB this offseason.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Insider as alongside Mike Garifolo, Judi Batista,
Ian rappaport I am Tom Pellicero. If you are catching
the podcast, this is part two, you go over to
part one. We talk a lot about Daniel Jones, who
now Shane Steichens. We record this officially announcing that, yes,
it was as bad as it looked. Daniel Jones out
for the season because of a torn achilles. Also Riley Leonard,
(00:24):
who took over for Daniel Jones, dealing with knee soreness,
though they are hopeful he's going to be able to
go on Sunday. Brett Rippon, the only other quarterback as
of this recording who is still has a locker in
that locker room. A lot to unpack in Indianapolis, and
again we talked extensively about this over in part one.
Let's look elsewhere in the AFC right now, because we
(00:46):
had a game yesterday between the Steelers and the Ravens
in which we can do a whole hour on that.
Spoiler alert, we don't have a whole hour on it. Here.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
We do have an hour, but we don't have an hour.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Just total, not just for that got it deals take
the one they beat the Ravens. They take a one
game lead. Now in the AFC North, capping off Ian
a week in which there was broad discussion about Mike
Comlin because the fans were chanting fire Tomlin, something that
we know is not going to happen in Pittsburgh. Aaron
Rodgers said, hey, maybe now you guys can all shut
(01:18):
up for a week. Here you got the Ravens who
have not looked right. Lamar has not looked right all season.
They once again struggled to find it. And yet still
we are a couple of let's call them unique officiating
and replay decisions away from the Ravens. Despite all that,
getting to win in that game. Ian, take this wherever
(01:40):
you want to go. I do know that you have
got You've got more than a few thoughts on the officiating.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I want to get to the one Lamar thing first,
and then I want to talk at the officiating. So
I think, like, none of us are exes and those
guys right, none of us are like Brian Balding or
a good buddy. But to my eyeballs, it looks like
Lamar is as good for as we've seen him in
quite a while. The touchdown run he had, I was
kind of like, okay, like that looks like Lamar And
(02:07):
I'm not saying he's going to go on like a
run now, but that's what I kind of think, Like
that was as close to being as physically good as
I think we've seen. And I know that they lost,
so like it's all bad, but there seemed to be
at least a glimmer of upside. And if I'm right,
which I'm sure I am, we're going to make sure
to come back to this.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
The officiating.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
I've seen the Isaiah Likely play. I understand. I went
through the pool report. Okay, you need to have control
of the ball, in other words, catch it, Okay, you
caught it. You need to have two feet down, Okay,
you only have two feet both of them were down
in the end zone. And then you need to do
an act common to football, which is like I guess
a third foot and then secure the ball.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
And I'm like, I understand it philosophically.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
I guess, like if he falls and cradles the ball,
that's an act you can't fall, But like, why do
you need more than two feet and catching the ball
isn't like you only have two feet. You don't have
a third foot like you need. How many other feet
do you need besides just the two? You have to
know that you've secured a ball that looked to me
like catch that literally changed the game. Mike, I know
(03:13):
you're going to tell me that I'm wrong, but I
just don't understand why it's not as simple as catch
the ball and you have your two feet down.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
That's literally just a catch.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
And real quick, you're Jim or mean John Harbaugh speaking
to reporter instead of the catch rule. As we record this,
the rule is about as clear as mud right now.
That's how I feel about it. We had a conversation
with the league office and we appreciate that it didn't
clear anything up. It didn't make it any easier to understand,
which my two medions.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Point on the competition committee.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I don't believe Judy, you know, I don't believe John
is on the competition.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
You think so Tom one is it was right? But yeah, Tom,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Maybe that's why that's maybe he got the calls. No,
I'm kidding. Those are huge plays in the game, to
say nothing of the other play with Aaron Rodgers, where
apparently if you're got your knees on the ground and
you're bringing in the ball. That's different rule.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
I mean Ian said he wanted to talk about officiating.
That's incorrect.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
He wanted to talk.
Speaker 5 (04:10):
About the competition committee because his problem is not with
the officiating. His problem is with the rule. Hate the
rule officiating and listen, they've loosen that. It used to
be even worse. I mean, des didn't catch it per
the rules back then, per the rules now does caught
it because he made that act come into the game
by taking the.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Ball and reaching.
Speaker 5 (04:31):
So he had it out here. He either he's got
to bring it here or he's got to get the
third step while the ball is out because at that
point it's like, okay, that's enough time, Like we're good.
That's three steps. That's more than the number of feet
that you have per Ian's math.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
So I I sucks, but like it.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
Sometimes it looks weird, but sometimes that's kind of how
it looks and how it's supposed to be officiated and.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
How it's written.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
So you know, it's tough.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
It's tough.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
I mean, at the time we're talking about the Bears
Packers game could have gone other way.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
We're talking about the Ravens Steeler.
Speaker 5 (05:01):
We could have been talking more about Mike Tomlin's job
security and whether or not he's going to be traded
and which dates in the calendar are important when it
comes to Mike Tomlin for twenty twenty six. But we're not.
We're talking about we're back in first place. Cool you
guys talking about what's going to happen in the offseason.
We're still trying to make the playoffs here as how
fine the line is, especially when.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
The rules are written the way that they're written in Judy,
here's my baseline thing. And this is all anecdotal, right,
because we all watch a lot of different games on Sundays.
We don't see every single call. We don't see all
necessarily the times where replay assist gets something right, or
sometimes the assistant to the replay assistant or the assistant
replay assistant corrects the replay assistant, like happened in the
(05:40):
game last night. Yeah, I'm still trying to very odd
sequence and something something that I have noticed is it
does seem and it doesn't. I know that the league
would say they've not changed the clear preponderance, the clear
and obvious standard for these things, But there have been
a bunch of different things in games this year that
have stood out in my mind, where whether it's a
(06:00):
player going to the ground and whether the ball, whether
they lost control of the balls. We've always heard the
ball can move as long as you maintain control. There
have been a couple of things that have been overturned. Yesterday,
the likely catch gets overturned. The Rogers play is another
one where, again based on how replay is being used judy,
it seems like whether there is an actual change in
(06:23):
philosophy or it's just the way that things are happening.
This year there are more plays where it seems like
replay is inserting itself in situations where, to use my standard,
which is fifty drunks in a bar, you probably wouldn't
have fifty people on the same page.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
They don't want to use they don't want to have
what we all call a sky jug, which is essentially
New York correcting everything that's on the field. But when
you talk to them, the goal is to get the
call correct right, no matter how much they have to
insert themselves. I mean, especially when you're coming down to
games like this right where playoff spots are going to
(06:59):
be determined, and so do I think they're inserting themselves more, Yes,
I do. I think they're overturning more calls that are
very very close and that you would say, will is
there enough evidence to overturn the call on the field,
which used to be the baseline, right like, do you
see enough to overturn on the field. I do feel
like they're doing their being more aggressive about that. I
(07:22):
would say that the more they use replay assistant and
the more comfortable they get with that, and the more
comfortable everybody in the league is understanding that New York
is watching everything. I do think that they have gotten
more aggressive about overturning plays they think are wrong, the
overturning calls they believe are wrong to get them right.
(07:43):
The bottom line is they want to get it right,
and if they have to overturn more than we're used
to seeing, they're going to do.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
It, which, by the way, is the entire problem with
the idea of and you see it every week people say,
why isn't everything reviewable? Sky Judge, just take for the
they've never what the Competition Committee has never done, as
you know, Judy, is they never want someone's subjective judgment
to replace somebody else's subjective judgment that appears to be
(08:10):
the path that again, intentionally or otherwise, we're going down
with some of the calls.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Well, I think I think we're not to the point
where they're going to go back to making past interference
reviewable because that was such a fiasco. But they don't
view these as judgment calls. Right, this is either you're
making a football move or you're not making a football move.
So therefore it's either a complete pass or it's not
a complete pass. So then that's black and white. And
I think, I mean, we have talked about this as
(08:38):
they have used more and more cameras, like over the
twenty years, right that as replay has become finer and
finer and finer, and you can see more and more
and more minute things slower and slower. You knew this
was going to happen. We were going to get to
this point where they're looking at it like frame by
frame and going right, is the did he make a move?
(08:59):
Is the the ball? Is he pulling the ball in?
Like you knew we were getting to this and now
we're getting to it where you can see like every
frame and they are, that's overturning more calls like they
I don't think they want. I think the preference would
be to get the call right on the field and
say that's correct, move along. But I think the bottom
line is they got to get these calls correct, and
(09:20):
so they're going to insert themselves if they have to.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
I just don't know Ian, who's rooting for if it
looks like, all right, seventy five percent chance we got
that call wrong. I don't know who's rooting for the
seventy five percent chance overturn it. To me, it's got
to be I mean, you guys might remember at the
NFL Network sum at one time when Al river On
was still running things and he was showing us some
play and I was like, so you're telling me you
(09:43):
showed just all thirty two teams and all thirty two
said that's the correct call. He goes, well, I won't
say all thirty two, And I go, well, then, how
is that clear and obvious? It needs to be one
hundred percent toss me like the ball hit the ground.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Like.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
I don't Ian personally want to get into the minutia
of it, but it appears again we're incrementally going that
direction because the NFL feels like they're trying to correct
the calls. We're just we're in a space now where
we're getting to the point where if they don't correct
the call that looks like well fifty one percent this way,
then people lose their minds over that. I don't think
that's the place that we want to be.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Yeah, I mean I think one thing, like to Judy's point,
is they are getting unbelievably comfortable with like someone getting
in the ear of someone and saying like like all right.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
We're just we're just gonna change us our replace this move.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
I'm like, we are all now fully used to someone
hears from someone okay, change the call. So it's like
that's in our consciousness now. I guess that's okay. Like
I think you're right, like get the call as right
as you possibly can. It does seem like there's a
lot of overreach now, which like baseball is going to
robot umps. So I guess until we have robot referees
(10:49):
with full lasers and whatever making the calls, which will
be probably in like five years or maybe two years,
I guess it's the best we got.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
We'll be back with more from the Insiders.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Judy, you got a new calum up at NFL dot com.
Winners and losers coming out of the Sunday of Week fourteen.
Give us a taste here. What's the tip of your
time that we haven't hit already in this podcast.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
First of all, I would say the Carolina Panthers were
winners and they were on the buy. But the Bucks
using at home to the Saints. Yeesh, that was one
of the ugliest losses you'll see this season, drop them
into a tie for the NFC's out. They looked like
the Bucks were going to run away with us only
a few weeks ago. The Panthers have been really up
and down all season, but they hung in there enough.
Now they're in a tie. They still face each other
(11:34):
twice and at the Bucks are getting healthier. They should
be getting Mike Evans back shortly. McMillan should be back
shortly hopefully. They played twice in the last three weeks,
so the division is coming down to those games. But
I mean the Panthers were winners. I think the Eagles
were winners this weekend because Dallas lost on Thursday and
that was about the best possible thing that could happen
(11:56):
outside of the positivity rabbit. I can't wait to see
how that pans out this week.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
You mean it's all positive.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
It's so good. I love the positivity rabbit, Like, where
did they find that? Anyway? That was great because that
basically buried the Cowboys further right, kept them far enough
in the distance, and so even while their offense is
still a mess and they need positivity rabbits. I mean,
the Eagles are now in a really good position. I
(12:24):
actually thought the Raiders were a winner because they're probably
going to get the number one overall draft pick. I
checked with our I checked with our research people, and
it's probably going to pan out that way. And Fernando
Mendoza was really awesome in the College Championship Big Ten
Championship game the other night. Good on the Raiders. I
(12:45):
don't even remember who I have as losers beyond Daniel
Jones and the Indianapolis Bolts. Those were my big losers.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
A few other things here. Ian The Bills closed out
that game in fairly epic fashion. Also essentially have a
rat the long shot hopes of the Bengals. There's a lot,
there's a lot there Joe Burrow plays phenomenal other than
two backbreaking interceptions, but also the way the Bills finished
was pretty impressive in that game.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I mean, it was awesome.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
It was it was the full Josh Allen experience when
he goes from like Josh Allen to Josh Lee Alien
whatever they call him, Like he was like the MVP.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
I don't know who's going to win the MVP.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
I mean, there's a couple of players who I think
could win it every year, and it sort of feels
like the public is kind of for Matthew Stafford.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
That's kind of what just my anecdotal feel is.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
But if Josh Allen has more moments like he did
on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Like he should win it.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Like he was the best player in the NFL for
fifteen minutes, unstoppable And like the Bengals defense, I know
that they're bad, but there weren't like really that bad.
The Bills offense was functioning at an unbelievable high level
and Josh Allen was awesome. And if they're going to
do that, then they might actually be in the super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
We had Matt Ryan coming on The Insiders tomorrow. We
recorded he and I did that interview today, he's great
the way to hear for to Josh Allens, he's the
one guy that you've seen. He also gave credit to
Stafford and Drake maybe said, Josh Allen's the one guy
who you can see putting a team on his back
and leading a playoff run. You certainly got a taste
of that yesterday, Mike NFC West. The Rams bounced back
(14:22):
in fairly convincing fashion. And I still I think I
say it every week on Monday, I'm like, who wants
to face the Seahawks? Who wants to deal with that
defense and the various ways that they can beat you offensively?
Even though I don't know what they came out firing
on all cylinders on offense in the first half. It
was another you know, pretty impressive showing going on the
road and get a win.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
Yeah, but Sam darnold, you gotta do it in a
big game, right, like God doing a big game on
the road. That game against the Rams a couple of
weeks ago. Still in my head, he looked a little
jittery in that game, and so that's going to be
that's that's that's it, Like there's nothing left to talk
about with Sam Darnold other than that kind of a
(15:05):
moment and can he do it unlessen honestly, if he
played a little bit better, they win that game. So
uh yeah, that that's gonna be a fun one to
watch coming down the stretch. Rashid Shahid, the trade that
was made midway through the season, uh was for his
impact not only on offense but also on special teams,
and we saw both yesterday.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
What a terrific addition for a.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
Team that didn't have to a team that could have
sat there and said, we've got the best receiver in
the league. We've got Cooper Cup that can contribute. What
else do we need? No, We're gonna add to a
position to strength. So sometimes it's not about filling filling hole.
Sometimes about getting even stronger where you are strong. And
the Seahawks did that and we saw the impact there
and maybe for Shahit coming down the stretch. So yeah,
I mean from from from I would say from top
(15:47):
to bottom because Arizona so banged up in the Kyler
Murray situation. But the first three teams in the NFC West,
I don't think you want to see any of them
in the post.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
I think actually that was one of my losers. Is
like any team trying to get in as a bubble
team into the NFC playoff fields, because the seventh seed
right now, which has been Niners right now, already has
nine wins. Crazy, it's crazy, like you're going to have
an eleven win team not get in. Probably, it's just
(16:17):
ridiculous what the NFC field looks like right now.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
We also saw two of the certainly the two highest
profile quarterbacks from this past year's draftee and go head
to head and one of the entertaining games of the weekend.
You know, if you're thinking about this big picture as
a fan of the Titans and the Browns, you got
to be like, oh man, this is great watching our
quarterback play well, but also, don't win this game. Don't
screw this up. We got major draft capital coming our way.
(16:41):
Kevin Stefanski comes out today. It says Shadoor Sanders gets
the rest of the season as the starter. Says that
he has improved consistently and constantly, which, of course is
met with the same level of insane reactions on both
sides as everything else involving Shadoor Sanders. He's a few
starts into his career. There's some good, there's some bad.
(17:03):
There's certainly enough good there to continue to explore it.
And I think that that's what gets lost in this
whole debate. Is it forget the he's the greatest or
he sucks debate? You know, he's on that short list
of players with the t Bows and Cam Newton's and
Kaepernicks of the world where it's like one guy can
make smart people dumber and dumb people even dumber than that,
(17:23):
and Chador is certainly in that realm. Through I wouldn't
say mostly any fault of his own, it's just the
overreactions to, hey, there's something here, let's keep exploring it.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
What's crazy about him?
Speaker 3 (17:35):
And for all like the national angst, which has really
been like bizarre Land, he seems to be handling everything
great like seems to be a good teammate, is pres
conviences are great. When the moment gets really big, he
seems to play well. I have no idea what Shador
Sanders is going to be, but my main takeaway is
at the absolute bottom least he is showing the Browns.
(17:56):
It was worth the draft pick by a lot. If
he's not the starter next year. I think he's done
a pretty good job of being like he could be
the backup at the very least. I would like to
see more. I don't know if he's gonna be the
franchise guy, but like has handled himself great enough, good plays,
made some mistakes for sure. Seems like a good guy.
(18:16):
This has been all a win. Now the public major
argument of it. Sometimes that might make a team go, oh,
is this worth It feels to me like it's been
worth it so far.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Plus it's very entertaining, so I'm here for all of it.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Last thing, Judy, all Right, prediction time. Browns have two
first dround picks in the twenty twenty sixth draft. Do
they use one or both of those on the quarterback?
Rustlers are going to knuck and leave before you answer.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
I think they do. I think they do if they
love one. And I don't think we know yet how
many of those kinds of guys are going to be
in this class. And we won't know it until we
do we get much further into the run up to
the process.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
All Right, that's a meet everybody. Yeah, it's a nice
cop out. Judy and Florid love watching and listening today.
You can find us five days a week, including on
NFL Network Tuesday's, Wednesdays Fridays live at seven pm Eastern Time.
Thanks for being here for Judy, Mike, and Ian. I'm Tom.
See you
Welcome back to the Insider as alongside Mike Garifolo, Judi Batista,
Ian rappaport I am Tom Pellicero. If you are catching
the podcast, this is part two, you go over to
part one. We talk a lot about Daniel Jones, who
now Shane Steichens. We record this officially announcing that, yes,
it was as bad as it looked. Daniel Jones out
for the season because of a torn achilles. Also Riley Leonard,
(00:24):
who took over for Daniel Jones, dealing with knee soreness,
though they are hopeful he's going to be able to
go on Sunday. Brett Rippon, the only other quarterback as
of this recording who is still has a locker in
that locker room. A lot to unpack in Indianapolis, and
again we talked extensively about this over in part one.
Let's look elsewhere in the AFC right now, because we
(00:46):
had a game yesterday between the Steelers and the Ravens
in which we can do a whole hour on that.
Spoiler alert, we don't have a whole hour on it. Here.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
We do have an hour, but we don't have an hour.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Just total, not just for that got it deals take
the one they beat the Ravens. They take a one
game lead. Now in the AFC North, capping off Ian
a week in which there was broad discussion about Mike
Comlin because the fans were chanting fire Tomlin, something that
we know is not going to happen in Pittsburgh. Aaron
Rodgers said, hey, maybe now you guys can all shut
(01:18):
up for a week. Here you got the Ravens who
have not looked right. Lamar has not looked right all season.
They once again struggled to find it. And yet still
we are a couple of let's call them unique officiating
and replay decisions away from the Ravens. Despite all that,
getting to win in that game. Ian, take this wherever
(01:40):
you want to go. I do know that you have
got You've got more than a few thoughts on the officiating.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I want to get to the one Lamar thing first,
and then I want to talk at the officiating. So
I think, like, none of us are exes and those
guys right, none of us are like Brian Balding or
a good buddy. But to my eyeballs, it looks like
Lamar is as good for as we've seen him in
quite a while. The touchdown run he had, I was
kind of like, okay, like that looks like Lamar And
(02:07):
I'm not saying he's going to go on like a
run now, but that's what I kind of think, Like
that was as close to being as physically good as
I think we've seen. And I know that they lost,
so like it's all bad, but there seemed to be
at least a glimmer of upside. And if I'm right,
which I'm sure I am, we're going to make sure
to come back to this.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
The officiating.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
I've seen the Isaiah Likely play. I understand. I went
through the pool report. Okay, you need to have control
of the ball, in other words, catch it, Okay, you
caught it. You need to have two feet down, Okay,
you only have two feet both of them were down
in the end zone. And then you need to do
an act common to football, which is like I guess
a third foot and then secure the ball.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
And I'm like, I understand it philosophically.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
I guess, like if he falls and cradles the ball,
that's an act you can't fall, But like, why do
you need more than two feet and catching the ball
isn't like you only have two feet. You don't have
a third foot like you need. How many other feet
do you need besides just the two? You have to
know that you've secured a ball that looked to me
like catch that literally changed the game. Mike, I know
(03:13):
you're going to tell me that I'm wrong, but I
just don't understand why it's not as simple as catch
the ball and you have your two feet down.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
That's literally just a catch.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
And real quick, you're Jim or mean John Harbaugh speaking
to reporter instead of the catch rule. As we record this,
the rule is about as clear as mud right now.
That's how I feel about it. We had a conversation
with the league office and we appreciate that it didn't
clear anything up. It didn't make it any easier to understand,
which my two medions.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Point on the competition committee.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I don't believe Judy, you know, I don't believe John
is on the competition.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
You think so Tom one is it was right? But yeah, Tom,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Maybe that's why that's maybe he got the calls. No,
I'm kidding. Those are huge plays in the game, to
say nothing of the other play with Aaron Rodgers, where
apparently if you're got your knees on the ground and
you're bringing in the ball. That's different rule.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
I mean Ian said he wanted to talk about officiating.
That's incorrect.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
He wanted to talk.
Speaker 5 (04:10):
About the competition committee because his problem is not with
the officiating. His problem is with the rule. Hate the
rule officiating and listen, they've loosen that. It used to
be even worse. I mean, des didn't catch it per
the rules back then, per the rules now does caught
it because he made that act come into the game
by taking the.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Ball and reaching.
Speaker 5 (04:31):
So he had it out here. He either he's got
to bring it here or he's got to get the
third step while the ball is out because at that
point it's like, okay, that's enough time, Like we're good.
That's three steps. That's more than the number of feet
that you have per Ian's math.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
So I I sucks, but like it.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
Sometimes it looks weird, but sometimes that's kind of how
it looks and how it's supposed to be officiated and.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
How it's written.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
So you know, it's tough.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
It's tough.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
I mean, at the time we're talking about the Bears
Packers game could have gone other way.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
We're talking about the Ravens Steeler.
Speaker 5 (05:01):
We could have been talking more about Mike Tomlin's job
security and whether or not he's going to be traded
and which dates in the calendar are important when it
comes to Mike Tomlin for twenty twenty six. But we're not.
We're talking about we're back in first place. Cool you
guys talking about what's going to happen in the offseason.
We're still trying to make the playoffs here as how
fine the line is, especially when.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
The rules are written the way that they're written in Judy,
here's my baseline thing. And this is all anecdotal, right,
because we all watch a lot of different games on Sundays.
We don't see every single call. We don't see all
necessarily the times where replay assist gets something right, or
sometimes the assistant to the replay assistant or the assistant
replay assistant corrects the replay assistant, like happened in the
(05:40):
game last night. Yeah, I'm still trying to very odd
sequence and something something that I have noticed is it
does seem and it doesn't. I know that the league
would say they've not changed the clear preponderance, the clear
and obvious standard for these things, But there have been
a bunch of different things in games this year that
have stood out in my mind, where whether it's a
(06:00):
player going to the ground and whether the ball, whether
they lost control of the balls. We've always heard the
ball can move as long as you maintain control. There
have been a couple of things that have been overturned. Yesterday,
the likely catch gets overturned. The Rogers play is another
one where, again based on how replay is being used judy,
it seems like whether there is an actual change in
(06:23):
philosophy or it's just the way that things are happening.
This year there are more plays where it seems like
replay is inserting itself in situations where, to use my standard,
which is fifty drunks in a bar, you probably wouldn't
have fifty people on the same page.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
They don't want to use they don't want to have
what we all call a sky jug, which is essentially
New York correcting everything that's on the field. But when
you talk to them, the goal is to get the
call correct right, no matter how much they have to
insert themselves. I mean, especially when you're coming down to
games like this right where playoff spots are going to
(06:59):
be determined, and so do I think they're inserting themselves more, Yes,
I do. I think they're overturning more calls that are
very very close and that you would say, will is
there enough evidence to overturn the call on the field,
which used to be the baseline, right like, do you
see enough to overturn on the field. I do feel
like they're doing their being more aggressive about that. I
(07:22):
would say that the more they use replay assistant and
the more comfortable they get with that, and the more
comfortable everybody in the league is understanding that New York
is watching everything. I do think that they have gotten
more aggressive about overturning plays they think are wrong, the
overturning calls they believe are wrong to get them right.
(07:43):
The bottom line is they want to get it right,
and if they have to overturn more than we're used
to seeing, they're going to do.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
It, which, by the way, is the entire problem with
the idea of and you see it every week people say,
why isn't everything reviewable? Sky Judge, just take for the
they've never what the Competition Committee has never done, as
you know, Judy, is they never want someone's subjective judgment
to replace somebody else's subjective judgment that appears to be
(08:10):
the path that again, intentionally or otherwise, we're going down
with some of the calls.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Well, I think I think we're not to the point
where they're going to go back to making past interference
reviewable because that was such a fiasco. But they don't
view these as judgment calls. Right, this is either you're
making a football move or you're not making a football move.
So therefore it's either a complete pass or it's not
a complete pass. So then that's black and white. And
I think, I mean, we have talked about this as
(08:38):
they have used more and more cameras, like over the
twenty years, right that as replay has become finer and
finer and finer, and you can see more and more
and more minute things slower and slower. You knew this
was going to happen. We were going to get to
this point where they're looking at it like frame by
frame and going right, is the did he make a move?
(08:59):
Is the the ball? Is he pulling the ball in?
Like you knew we were getting to this and now
we're getting to it where you can see like every
frame and they are, that's overturning more calls like they
I don't think they want. I think the preference would
be to get the call right on the field and
say that's correct, move along. But I think the bottom
line is they got to get these calls correct, and
(09:20):
so they're going to insert themselves if they have to.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
I just don't know Ian, who's rooting for if it
looks like, all right, seventy five percent chance we got
that call wrong. I don't know who's rooting for the
seventy five percent chance overturn it. To me, it's got
to be I mean, you guys might remember at the
NFL Network sum at one time when Al river On
was still running things and he was showing us some
play and I was like, so you're telling me you
(09:43):
showed just all thirty two teams and all thirty two
said that's the correct call. He goes, well, I won't
say all thirty two, And I go, well, then, how
is that clear and obvious? It needs to be one
hundred percent toss me like the ball hit the ground.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Like.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
I don't Ian personally want to get into the minutia
of it, but it appears again we're incrementally going that
direction because the NFL feels like they're trying to correct
the calls. We're just we're in a space now where
we're getting to the point where if they don't correct
the call that looks like well fifty one percent this way,
then people lose their minds over that. I don't think
that's the place that we want to be.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Yeah, I mean I think one thing, like to Judy's point,
is they are getting unbelievably comfortable with like someone getting
in the ear of someone and saying like like all right.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
We're just we're just gonna change us our replace this move.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
I'm like, we are all now fully used to someone
hears from someone okay, change the call. So it's like
that's in our consciousness now. I guess that's okay. Like
I think you're right, like get the call as right
as you possibly can. It does seem like there's a
lot of overreach now, which like baseball is going to
robot umps. So I guess until we have robot referees
(10:49):
with full lasers and whatever making the calls, which will
be probably in like five years or maybe two years,
I guess it's the best we got.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
We'll be back with more from the Insiders.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Judy, you got a new calum up at NFL dot com.
Winners and losers coming out of the Sunday of Week fourteen.
Give us a taste here. What's the tip of your
time that we haven't hit already in this podcast.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
First of all, I would say the Carolina Panthers were
winners and they were on the buy. But the Bucks
using at home to the Saints. Yeesh, that was one
of the ugliest losses you'll see this season, drop them
into a tie for the NFC's out. They looked like
the Bucks were going to run away with us only
a few weeks ago. The Panthers have been really up
and down all season, but they hung in there enough.
Now they're in a tie. They still face each other
(11:34):
twice and at the Bucks are getting healthier. They should
be getting Mike Evans back shortly. McMillan should be back
shortly hopefully. They played twice in the last three weeks,
so the division is coming down to those games. But
I mean the Panthers were winners. I think the Eagles
were winners this weekend because Dallas lost on Thursday and
that was about the best possible thing that could happen
(11:56):
outside of the positivity rabbit. I can't wait to see
how that pans out this week.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
You mean it's all positive.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
It's so good. I love the positivity rabbit, Like, where
did they find that? Anyway? That was great because that
basically buried the Cowboys further right, kept them far enough
in the distance, and so even while their offense is
still a mess and they need positivity rabbits. I mean,
the Eagles are now in a really good position. I
(12:24):
actually thought the Raiders were a winner because they're probably
going to get the number one overall draft pick. I
checked with our I checked with our research people, and
it's probably going to pan out that way. And Fernando
Mendoza was really awesome in the College Championship Big Ten
Championship game the other night. Good on the Raiders. I
(12:45):
don't even remember who I have as losers beyond Daniel
Jones and the Indianapolis Bolts. Those were my big losers.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
A few other things here. Ian The Bills closed out
that game in fairly epic fashion. Also essentially have a
rat the long shot hopes of the Bengals. There's a lot,
there's a lot there Joe Burrow plays phenomenal other than
two backbreaking interceptions, but also the way the Bills finished
was pretty impressive in that game.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I mean, it was awesome.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
It was it was the full Josh Allen experience when
he goes from like Josh Allen to Josh Lee Alien
whatever they call him, Like he was like the MVP.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
I don't know who's going to win the MVP.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
I mean, there's a couple of players who I think
could win it every year, and it sort of feels
like the public is kind of for Matthew Stafford.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
That's kind of what just my anecdotal feel is.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
But if Josh Allen has more moments like he did
on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Like he should win it.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Like he was the best player in the NFL for
fifteen minutes, unstoppable And like the Bengals defense, I know
that they're bad, but there weren't like really that bad.
The Bills offense was functioning at an unbelievable high level
and Josh Allen was awesome. And if they're going to
do that, then they might actually be in the super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
We had Matt Ryan coming on The Insiders tomorrow. We
recorded he and I did that interview today, he's great
the way to hear for to Josh Allens, he's the
one guy that you've seen. He also gave credit to
Stafford and Drake maybe said, Josh Allen's the one guy
who you can see putting a team on his back
and leading a playoff run. You certainly got a taste
of that yesterday, Mike NFC West. The Rams bounced back
(14:22):
in fairly convincing fashion. And I still I think I
say it every week on Monday, I'm like, who wants
to face the Seahawks? Who wants to deal with that
defense and the various ways that they can beat you offensively?
Even though I don't know what they came out firing
on all cylinders on offense in the first half. It
was another you know, pretty impressive showing going on the
road and get a win.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
Yeah, but Sam darnold, you gotta do it in a
big game, right, like God doing a big game on
the road. That game against the Rams a couple of
weeks ago. Still in my head, he looked a little
jittery in that game, and so that's going to be
that's that's that's it, Like there's nothing left to talk
about with Sam Darnold other than that kind of a
(15:05):
moment and can he do it unlessen honestly, if he
played a little bit better, they win that game. So
uh yeah, that that's gonna be a fun one to
watch coming down the stretch. Rashid Shahid, the trade that
was made midway through the season, uh was for his
impact not only on offense but also on special teams,
and we saw both yesterday.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
What a terrific addition for a.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
Team that didn't have to a team that could have
sat there and said, we've got the best receiver in
the league. We've got Cooper Cup that can contribute. What
else do we need? No, We're gonna add to a
position to strength. So sometimes it's not about filling filling hole.
Sometimes about getting even stronger where you are strong. And
the Seahawks did that and we saw the impact there
and maybe for Shahit coming down the stretch. So yeah,
I mean from from from I would say from top
(15:47):
to bottom because Arizona so banged up in the Kyler
Murray situation. But the first three teams in the NFC West,
I don't think you want to see any of them
in the post.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
I think actually that was one of my losers. Is
like any team trying to get in as a bubble
team into the NFC playoff fields, because the seventh seed
right now, which has been Niners right now, already has
nine wins. Crazy, it's crazy, like you're going to have
an eleven win team not get in. Probably, it's just
(16:17):
ridiculous what the NFC field looks like right now.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
We also saw two of the certainly the two highest
profile quarterbacks from this past year's draftee and go head
to head and one of the entertaining games of the weekend.
You know, if you're thinking about this big picture as
a fan of the Titans and the Browns, you got
to be like, oh man, this is great watching our
quarterback play well, but also, don't win this game. Don't
screw this up. We got major draft capital coming our way.
(16:41):
Kevin Stefanski comes out today. It says Shadoor Sanders gets
the rest of the season as the starter. Says that
he has improved consistently and constantly, which, of course is
met with the same level of insane reactions on both
sides as everything else involving Shadoor Sanders. He's a few
starts into his career. There's some good, there's some bad.
(17:03):
There's certainly enough good there to continue to explore it.
And I think that that's what gets lost in this
whole debate. Is it forget the he's the greatest or
he sucks debate? You know, he's on that short list
of players with the t Bows and Cam Newton's and
Kaepernicks of the world where it's like one guy can
make smart people dumber and dumb people even dumber than that,
(17:23):
and Chador is certainly in that realm. Through I wouldn't
say mostly any fault of his own, it's just the
overreactions to, hey, there's something here, let's keep exploring it.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
What's crazy about him?
Speaker 3 (17:35):
And for all like the national angst, which has really
been like bizarre Land, he seems to be handling everything
great like seems to be a good teammate, is pres
conviences are great. When the moment gets really big, he
seems to play well. I have no idea what Shador
Sanders is going to be, but my main takeaway is
at the absolute bottom least he is showing the Browns.
(17:56):
It was worth the draft pick by a lot. If
he's not the starter next year. I think he's done
a pretty good job of being like he could be
the backup at the very least. I would like to
see more. I don't know if he's gonna be the
franchise guy, but like has handled himself great enough, good plays,
made some mistakes for sure. Seems like a good guy.
(18:16):
This has been all a win. Now the public major
argument of it. Sometimes that might make a team go, oh,
is this worth It feels to me like it's been
worth it so far.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Plus it's very entertaining, so I'm here for all of it.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Last thing, Judy, all Right, prediction time. Browns have two
first dround picks in the twenty twenty sixth draft. Do
they use one or both of those on the quarterback?
Rustlers are going to knuck and leave before you answer.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
I think they do. I think they do if they
love one. And I don't think we know yet how
many of those kinds of guys are going to be
in this class. And we won't know it until we
do we get much further into the run up to
the process.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
All Right, that's a meet everybody. Yeah, it's a nice
cop out. Judy and Florid love watching and listening today.
You can find us five days a week, including on
NFL Network Tuesday's, Wednesdays Fridays live at seven pm Eastern Time.
Thanks for being here for Judy, Mike, and Ian. I'm Tom.
See you
Hosts And Creators
Judy Battista
Tom Pelissero
Ian Rapaport
Mike Garafolo
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