NFL Network Insiders Tom Pelissero and Ian Rapoport react to Drake Maye and the Patriots beating the Bills on Sunday Night Football and the Broncos going into Philadelphia and beating the Eagles. Steve Wyche joins the show to discuss the shootout between the Buccaneers and Seahawks and discuss what is next for a banged up 1-4 Ravens team.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Happy Monday everyone, and welcome inside with the Insiders Monday
podcast edition. Alongside Ian Rappaport, I'm Tom Pelacio. The Monday
shows always a little bit different if it is your
first time here. It is a podcast only show. Can
also see it on YouTube for the first time. Now
you can see it on the NFL Fast Channel as well,
(00:24):
layered eight thirty Pacific eleven thirty Eastern time every Monday.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Tons of different ways to get your.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Insiders, including of course Tuesday, Wednesday Friday seven pm Eastern
Time live on NFL Network. Two part podcast every Monday.
We really dig into everything we saw from the previous
Sunday and Ian this week. That means starting out with
a game last night that I don't think a lot
of people would have had as one of the games
of the week. I think that people have been girded
(00:52):
at this point to believe that it's the Bills and
everybody else in the AFC East. I personally was the
Patriots opener in Foxborough back in Week one, and it
was a really bumpy day.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
They lost to a Raiders team.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
That has not had a whole lot going for it
positively since then, but it was offensively it was challenged.
Drake May had a challenging day defensively. There were a
ton of moving parts. But Mike frabelman has that team
working and it was pretty impressive. It felt like the
Mike Frable teams we saw in Tennessee, where they're going
to do things right other than fumbling the football, They're
(01:28):
going to be able to be really good situationally. And
obviously they had a wide receiver in Stefan Diggs who
looks better and better from a physical perspective, and that
game clearly meant a lot to him last night.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna start with the Digs part first,
because you know, seeing that emotion from him. You watch
the pregame huddle, you know the speech he gave, You
watch the Mike rabel does the thing I'm sure you
guys have seen it where he stands outside the locker
room and sort of congratulates everyone after.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
I think he only does it after win, but he
might do it after a loss.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Too, And watching you know him embraced Diggs and they
both sprint into the locker room to go kind of
give that.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
You know, that really cool speechs and Digs gets a
game ball.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I mean, it was.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
You know, to be emotional is understandable.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I mean, Stefan Diggs has been through a lot plenty
at his own doing, for sure, but it's been through
you know, Thomas in Minnesota when Diggs was starting his
first go round to this whole thing. He's dealt with
a lot, and it's understandable to be emotional, to be
charged up, to be all the things. It is a
fully different thing to be able to handle it on
(02:36):
a field and deliver what I don't know, looks like
his best game in however many years. I mean, that
looks like a twenty five year old top five receiver
in the NFL, Stefan Diggs, and that looked like the
guy the Patriots have been waiting for, the guy the
Patriots paid for.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
That was that was pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
The other part of this, I mean, you mentioned some
of the growing pains with the Patriots penalties, the fumbles,
Remandre with another Fumbo. Ugh, you know, they're still working
through those kinds of things. But this is such a
tough team. It really is. Like I sort of thought
this might be a game when I saw the Saints
(03:16):
play really hard and well against the Bills, and I
was like, all right, Saints aren't good, but they play
physically tough. Like that seemed to give the Bills some problems.
I wondered if the Patriots might sort of have some
of the same and they did. And with Drake May
making play after play and throw after throw with the
game on the line, I mean that second down throw
(03:37):
kind of down the sideline, the throw to Digs on
the run to his right, there's so many to like.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
And like, if you're a Patriots fan, you've been.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Through a lot kind of what North Carolina's fans are going.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Through right now, which is a different story for a
different day.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
This is kind of the other side of it, and like,
this looks like a Patriots team that is primed.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
To be really, really good.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Drake May.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
It was not unanimous, but he did have fans in
the pre draft process. The issue when coaches and scouts
were looking at him was of the six quarterbacks who
went up Hie in that draft, right between Kata Williams,
Jaden Drake, Michael Pennix, JJ McCarthy, bow Nicks, Drake May
was the one that had the furthest to go. He
had played the least amount of football. I believe he
(04:22):
was the youngest out of the entire group. I mean,
Katleb Williams had played a ton his entire career. Jade
Daniels was in college for quite a while. Obviously, Penis
had the injuries, but he had played a lot of football.
JJ was on the younger side but had played quite
a bit, and Bo Nicks had played at that time
more games anybody in college football history until Dylan Gabrids
dil and then broke that record. But with May, the
(04:42):
upside was there because the physical characteristics, because of the mindset,
you just didn't know how long is this going to
take it?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Again? I was there in week one. It did not
look like what we saw last time.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I mean that though, he just saw right there watching
this like that was a wild type of play by
Drake May. But it's also so you know, there's times
where you got a team playing cover two, I think
this might be yeah, that's the throw right, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah too. They always, like coaches will say it. I'm
you know, neither of us is like an ex's and
nose expert, but coach will always say the well, especially
when you're throwing to the field side, the wider side
(05:14):
of the field, like just take the flat route on
that because you're not going to be able to fit
that ball in. Drake big shoots that thing across before
the safety can get there.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
He's got a big arm, He's a big dude.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
He can move, he's tough, He's clearly one the respect
of his teammates here.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Is that going to translate into a.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Patriots team making the playoffs after two consecutive what four
and thirteen seasons?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I wanted to say they were each of the.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Last I think for the first time, especially being the
team to Kell of the Bills, you at least have
to take into consideration this might be a playoff.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Makam.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
I mean, this looks like the Commanders from last year.
And I know that Drake May is not a rookie
whereas Jaden was. But that's what it looks like. His
new coach, new energy, a free agency that sort of
toward like making the offensive and defensive lines a little
bit better, which is sort of what the Commanders had
last year. Signed a bunch of veterans to get that
to kind of fill in some of the depth issues.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
It does feel like the Commanders from last year.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
I want to go back quickly before we get to
the other really good game, which was Broncos Eagles. In
the draft pre draft process, like, you're right, like it
wasn't unanimous that Drake May was sort of the third
best quarterback.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
I think some people, especially some of.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
The more veteran people, I've always felt like maybe we're like,
all right, he's got a little too far to go.
But here's what I knew. Teams were trying to trade
for Drake May. And while the Patriots sort of said
they were open to it, they really weren't. Like the
Giants tried. They made a huge offer. I think it
was on the clock or maybe a couple picks before
(06:49):
I can't remember anywhere, and the Patriots and they said
they would consider everything, and I think they just never
considered anything. And that was the first time that night
when I was like, all right, like maybe this guy
really is this good, because that's the kind of treatment
you give to someone.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
Who is going to be your franchise quarterback.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
On the flip side of things, you had a team
yesterday in the Philadelphia Eagles that we've talked about a lot,
even though they got off to a four and oh start,
and you know when you're four and oh you can
sit there and say, hey, you know it's all being overblown.
I think a lot of that was true. Then you
watch the very issues that people have been picking apart
all come back to bite them in a game that
(07:33):
they seem to have under control. I know Sean Payton
said he felt like they were in a great position throughout,
but you're down twenty one to seven on the road
to the defending Super Bowl champs. You have to on
some levels think like, hey, how are we going to
break through? The Broncos offense did break through in that game,
and whether it was just the way the Eagles played
offense with I think sa Quon Barkley had one carry
(07:55):
for zero yards in the entire second half of the
two touchdown lead, or it's just the continue inability to
establish a consistent passing game. What exactly is going on
right now? Ian to you with the Philly offense?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Well, the thing I'm trying to figure out and I
was listening to Kyle Brant sort of talk about this
very issue, which is basically sort of like what are
the Eagles right? Like he was like, well, they're a
running team, Okay, Well, Sekwon got like six carries either
five or six carries yesterday?
Speaker 4 (08:20):
So are they a running team? Like, if they're a
running team, why don't they run the ball?
Speaker 5 (08:25):
You know?
Speaker 3 (08:25):
This is like in Moneyball where they're like, you know,
it's a Brad Pitt talking to these old scouts and
he's like, he's got a great swing, right, Well, if
he's got a great swing, why doesn't he hit good.
It's like, well, yeah, but he's got a great It's like, well,
how come he doesn't get an hit? So, like, if
the Eagles are a running team, why aren't they run
the ball?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
And I just.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
I would say this, first of all, I think they
are going to be fine.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
I think they're going to be in the playoffs and
go deep in the playoffs, and they're going to be fine.
I think we all a little bit have to get
in understand the mindset that when it's early October, it's
where we used to be in early September. Because nobody
does anything in the preseason anymore. So the egos are
still trying to figure out what they are. And it's
(09:08):
October and they're four and one, and it's a little
bit of a mess, and they've gotten a ton of
local criticism, and they're going to be okay because last
year they figured it out toward November. This year they're
on track to figure it out sort of toward November.
It's just like, to get there, we all have to
deal with them being like kind of a little bit
of a you know, weird team for a while. Again,
(09:31):
I still think they're going to be fine, but watching
them figure it on a fly has been not always.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
The most comfortable thing ever.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
I think for the Broncos, that was a pretty cool win.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Like this you know Broncos team too, Like I don't
know what they are either, except they've made a ton
of big plays at the biggest moments and Bonnicks has
been really uneven, but when they got to have it,
he's had some really really nice plays too.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
So kind of two teams figuring out it feels like.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
And I would also also say we can't overlook Vanced
Joseph's defense, the way that they adjusted in the second half.
They have this habit of making things really challenging on
whoever they're facing offensively, The fact that you have an
Eagles team that's trying to figure this out right now,
and the way that Denver uses all those pass rushers.
They've obviously got one of the top corners in Patrick,
Sir Tan, They've got some other guys who are not
(10:20):
household names, But I mean, look at that.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
You just knew Sir Tam.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Was going to lock it down yesterday, you know, And it.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Was impressive to watch at a time that the AFC
West know for everything that we were talking about with
the Chargers in the early going, and how good can
that team be. They've stumbled in these past couple of
weeks amidst ongoing injury issues. Obviously, the Raiders are not
playing well at all. And the Chiefs, while we've seen
them take a little step forward, they've got reinforcements coming.
(10:47):
Is it possible here? I think we at least have
to consider whether or not it is the Broncos that
are the greatest threat to Kansas City and the AFC West.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
We'll be right back with more on the inside.
Speaker 5 (10:57):
Right, Let's welcome into our Steve Whites to the conversation.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Here. Steve start out in what might have been the
wildest in a afternoon of wild games yesterday, the shootouts
between the Bucks and the Seahawks. Two quarterbacks who let's remember,
were teammates in Carolina not that long ago, and with
those two options, the Panthers decided neither guys was the answer. Yesterday,
(11:38):
we saw two guys who both and this is not
talking in isolation. They've both been good the season, but
they're both playing it, you know, an MVP caliber type
of a level here. What did you learn out of
that game which the Bucks ultimately prevailed it?
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Wow?
Speaker 6 (11:52):
I mean, first off, those quarters, you know that both
of them were playing fearlessly right We saw them earlier
in their career.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
They were afraid to make mistakes.
Speaker 6 (11:59):
When you watched the game, Baker and Sam donald Man,
they were loading up and they were firing, they were
taking shots.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
We're seeing Baker to the touchdown right here. But they just.
Speaker 6 (12:10):
Compete at a level right now where they know their
teams are good around them, the players are good around them,
and the level of trust and the play call and
everything else in the.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Execution with both of them is like next level.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
But what we're saying about the Buccaneers, and I've been
saying this since the preseason, is they you know, we
talk about teams with the culture, We never mentioned Tampa Bay.
Tampa Bay has a culture, right they expect to win.
They go in there like we're gonna beat you up.
You're gonna have to beat us. We're not gonna beat ourselves.
And that's what Seattle did with that Sam Donald unfortunate
touch interception. They beat themselves because otherwise they were going
(12:44):
to march down the field and score and probably end
it right there. And so I just think the fearlessness
that the Buccaneers are playing with and that level of
confidence is something we have to take seriously when we're
talking about a team that can possibly.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Come out of the NFC.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Yeah, you know, it's you talk about the Bucks culture, Steve.
They are so banged up they could barely practice this week.
Mike Evans isn't playing, Chris Gottowan's is coming back, starting
running backs not playing.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
They got offensive linemen who are out. I mean, it's
the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
And like you know, we hear coaches say things like
you know, next man up, mentality and all that, and
that is all is all very nice, and then we
you know, see a couple of teams really go out
and have a strong enough infrastructure where they can really
withstand all those injuries. We saw the forty nine ers
do it Thursday. We see the Bucks do it this Sunday.
(13:36):
Like they certainly made some mistakes, had a lot of
guys playing in there who were not starters, and we're
counted on for key roles. But because they are so
strong sort of like internally, they can they can deal
with it. Now, there's other teams.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Who dealt with a lot of injuries who went the
other way. We can talk about that in a second.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Baltimore would be one, But it really is unbelievable seeing
how the Bucks kind of can withstand all that and
keep going. And the other thing I would say is,
and obviously, you know, this was probably not a great
game if you were like a Panthers fan, Steve, but
I love the sort of redemption narrative of quarterbacks. And
(14:15):
every quarterback that gets benched can now look at.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
A couple of different examples across the league.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
And bag all right, like, if this guy can do it,
then maybe I can do it too.
Speaker 6 (14:27):
And guys, let's look over over the fact that these
guys have two wide receivers who are emerging as likely
Pro bowlers. I mean Jack Smith and Jigba who we're
seeing right here. He was sick yesterday with some of
the plays he continued to make for Donald. Donald was
putting it on him. But I mean in Jigua was
getting open and making incredible plays.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
And then I'm not going a BUCA. I mean, this
guy's right now the offensive.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Cronown still way better than Gronk. Good job, I saw that.
Speaker 6 (14:52):
Man, I'm glad that the heat of Gronk up that
was that was That was not good.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
It's not good.
Speaker 6 (14:57):
But this dude, I mean, this is like his second
game where he's made these incredible.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Fourth quarter plays. He's a rookie.
Speaker 6 (15:08):
He's getting open, but I mean he was covered on
a lot of these plays and he's making great catches.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
So when you're seeing and that's when I say, you
have the trust.
Speaker 6 (15:15):
Both of these teams, these quarterbacks have the trust in
their players, and that is a hard thing to do.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Again when you played the first part of your career,
like both.
Speaker 6 (15:22):
These guys did, trying not to make mistakes. They weren't
playing to their talent level. Maybe they weren't playing to
their egos. Now they are and it's fun to see
Ian to talk about. You know what you just said,
These guys re emerging, not just in systems, but playing
up to their potential capabilities. That's always been there, so
I think that is really cool. But when you got
(15:43):
players like they're playing with that helps Somewhere.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
There is an entire landfill of social media posts by
Bucks fans complain about why they didn't draft a corner
or alignment in the first round because of all their needs.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
This is literally why you don't draft for need.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
It's why gms like Jays and Light are in one
place for a decade plus. It's because you have a
philosophy for how you're going to build that roster. You
don't just collect players at the various positions like you get.
You build a team, and the way that they have
built the team there is constantly taking the best player available.
(16:18):
That was a mecca Abuka. Now, did they know that
Baker Mayfield ou Mekka Buka was going to be maybe
the best quarterback receiver combo in the league five weeks
in the season.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Probably not.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
But the only knocks on Abuka coming out were like,
is he as explosive as the other wide receivers. Well,
he's not the biggest guy, but everybody said in terms
of just a pure receiver, like a football player, you
want a Meccha Buk. We've had him on the Insiders.
I mean, he's so mature. He's a super intelligent young guy,
(16:50):
very low key too, and I kind of gave him
crap about that last time we had him on. It
was just like, dude, how do you find it on
the field, because he flips that switch man and he
is a bad man on the football field. In the Bucks,
I mean, credit them for as beat up as they are.
Bakers beat up, No Bucky Irving yesterday. They got all
kinds of different moving parts on the offensive line. Chris
(17:10):
Godwin's not himself yet, Mike Evans probably gon be at
least another week, Jalen McMillan still, and all they do
is go in and hang thirty eight points on the
Slahawk's defense that'd been one of the best in the NFL.
It was really, really impressive, and I'd still say for
Seattle there's a lot of good Those are two of
the better teams in the NFC, and the Bucks and
and the other taste of that next week when they
continue their West Coast or NFC West Tour against the
(17:35):
forty nine Ers' slip it over to the East coast though, Steve,
because you've got a Ravens team right now that is
also as beat up as anybody in the NFL. And
the inactive list when we were all texting about it yesterday,
like nobody's ever seen an active list where like everyone
on it's a Pro bowler and that's what they had,
including Lamar Jackson. But still there's some endemic issues here,
(17:56):
starting out with the run defense has been really really bad. Yes,
not having much the Pro Bowl players makes a big difference,
but you just watch them and you go you'd like
to think, if San Francisco can do it, if Tampa
can do it, if Minnesota can do it and put
a confident product on the field, how in the world
are the Ravens getting absolutely boat raced by a Texans
(18:16):
team that up until a couple of weeks ago didn't
like they can do anything.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Right tom even when they were healthy, this was happening.
That's the issue, right.
Speaker 6 (18:24):
We can talk about the injuries, we can talk about
how poorly they played against the Texans, but this is
nothing new.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
This has been systematic ever since Week one.
Speaker 6 (18:33):
And when I watch them, I cover their game against
Detroit and I watch them.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
To me it's basic stuff.
Speaker 6 (18:40):
Tell me, when you see a defender getting off of
a block, it doesn't happen, right, They're getting locked up
and they're getting moved, and that's we're like, whoa, Okay,
I know Nomni Matabik is not there. Okay, he's a stud.
He he clears things up for guys. But you're just
saying good players getting blocked up, like it's a weird
thing in the defenders are there, they're not making plays
(19:04):
and so it's it's it's odd now when I watch
them schematically defensively, they ask a lot out of the
the especially the second level right, the out of their
inside linebacker pro quant Smith, who was right. But they
ask a lot of those guys, and they did it
early last year and they had to change some things. Okay,
remember when our Darius Washington came in and started safety,
(19:24):
they moved him a little up, move Kyle Hamilton back. Well,
they don't have our Darius Washington. Malachi Starks is playing
back there. But defensively, I don't know because I don't
know if it's scheme, because again I saw guys just
not getting.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
I mean, last year they brought in Dnp's right.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
And Dean's still consulting.
Speaker 6 (19:42):
They say, he's still consulting from Afar, but maybe he's
he's taking a step back.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
But if you go watch them, it's just simple stuff.
Speaker 6 (19:50):
Man, They're they're just getting beat and it happened every week,
Like what is what has happened here? Just individually as
posician groups where you're getting whipped, simple stuff all game long.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
It's incredible.
Speaker 6 (20:06):
You know, I thought the Lions just beat him upcause
the Lions are the Lions. But you're seeing that stuff
every week.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Yeah, and you know it's Listen to Harball and he asked,
is asked, of course about essentially whether or not zach
Orr is the problem and whether or not they're going
to do more, make a change the defensive coordinator, and
he seems adamant that they are not.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Now they keep struggling.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
You know, obviously we'll see, but you know that would
sort of speak to what you're saying that he believes
it's more physical than it is scheme related. And obviously,
you know you can, you know, a good coach and
scheme can help. But like if it's players who just
need to break free a box more like you know,
that'll be easier when better players come in. But I
(20:49):
just I don't know. I'm really fascinating to see where
this goes. I mean, John Harbaugh as a head coach
has done a lot of really, really really good things,
and I feel like maybe the best thing he does
is kind of manage the locker room, deal with the personalities,
and like keep everyone together.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
That is going to be tested.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
That is going to get really really interesting because like
we haven't seen a Ravens team start one and four
and I don't even know when, and you know, how
do they.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
I mean, how do they respond? Is going to be
really really interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
And now you've got a game that suddenly feels huge
Sunday against the Rams at home, the last game before
the buye. Yeah, you want to get to the buy
get Lamar back, get other guys healthy. But if you
lose this game, you're one in five. You are now
in a position where you need to come damn close
to running the table the rest of the way to
even have a shot at getting in the playoffs. We'd
(21:50):
all agree if the Ravens are healthy at the end,
they'll be one of the most dangerous teams in the NFL.
But ask the Bengals from last year. How it works
out when you put yourself in such a big hole
that even if if you do get healthy, even if
you are playing well down the stretch, you need everything
to follow the right way real quickly. And on Lamar
last game before the bye, thirty seconds or less. What
are the odds if any we see Lamar on the
(22:12):
field in your mind in week six.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
Could be on the practice field. Doesn't feel great for
the game and field.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
They are still good enough to win, and god it
feels like they have to, but I don't feel great
about him playing this week.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
The Rams are sick.
Speaker 6 (22:27):
The Rams have to losing that game, so the forty
nine are coming out there with bad intention. This is
gonna be a tough game for Baltimore, especially the way
they're playing defensively.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Rams can easily be five and oh two. Absolutely just
painful losses for them. So far right, Steve, you're back
in part two of the podcasts. Later on in the show,
depending on how you're consuming this, we're all over the place,
different versions. We'll talk about the Bengals quarterback situation as
they continue to move forward. We got a lot more
to come. The Vikings getting a big win in London.
(22:54):
What's going on with the Jets at Z and five
is they head to London a whole lot more? Stick
around or go to part two of the podcast, however
you do it.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
We're all over the place for Steve p and I'm
talking to see you that
Happy Monday everyone, and welcome inside with the Insiders Monday
podcast edition. Alongside Ian Rappaport, I'm Tom Pelacio. The Monday
shows always a little bit different if it is your
first time here. It is a podcast only show. Can
also see it on YouTube for the first time. Now
you can see it on the NFL Fast Channel as well,
(00:24):
layered eight thirty Pacific eleven thirty Eastern time every Monday.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Tons of different ways to get your.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Insiders, including of course Tuesday, Wednesday Friday seven pm Eastern
Time live on NFL Network. Two part podcast every Monday.
We really dig into everything we saw from the previous
Sunday and Ian this week. That means starting out with
a game last night that I don't think a lot
of people would have had as one of the games
of the week. I think that people have been girded
(00:52):
at this point to believe that it's the Bills and
everybody else in the AFC East. I personally was the
Patriots opener in Foxborough back in Week one, and it
was a really bumpy day.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
They lost to a Raiders team.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
That has not had a whole lot going for it
positively since then, but it was offensively it was challenged.
Drake May had a challenging day defensively. There were a
ton of moving parts. But Mike frabelman has that team
working and it was pretty impressive. It felt like the
Mike Frable teams we saw in Tennessee, where they're going
to do things right other than fumbling the football, They're
(01:28):
going to be able to be really good situationally. And
obviously they had a wide receiver in Stefan Diggs who
looks better and better from a physical perspective, and that
game clearly meant a lot to him last night.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna start with the Digs part first,
because you know, seeing that emotion from him. You watch
the pregame huddle, you know the speech he gave, You
watch the Mike rabel does the thing I'm sure you
guys have seen it where he stands outside the locker
room and sort of congratulates everyone after.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
I think he only does it after win, but he
might do it after a loss.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Too, And watching you know him embraced Diggs and they
both sprint into the locker room to go kind of
give that.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
You know, that really cool speechs and Digs gets a
game ball.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I mean, it was.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
You know, to be emotional is understandable.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I mean, Stefan Diggs has been through a lot plenty
at his own doing, for sure, but it's been through
you know, Thomas in Minnesota when Diggs was starting his
first go round to this whole thing. He's dealt with
a lot, and it's understandable to be emotional, to be
charged up, to be all the things. It is a
fully different thing to be able to handle it on
(02:36):
a field and deliver what I don't know, looks like
his best game in however many years. I mean, that
looks like a twenty five year old top five receiver
in the NFL, Stefan Diggs, and that looked like the
guy the Patriots have been waiting for, the guy the
Patriots paid for.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
That was that was pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
The other part of this, I mean, you mentioned some
of the growing pains with the Patriots penalties, the fumbles,
Remandre with another Fumbo. Ugh, you know, they're still working
through those kinds of things. But this is such a
tough team. It really is. Like I sort of thought
this might be a game when I saw the Saints
(03:16):
play really hard and well against the Bills, and I
was like, all right, Saints aren't good, but they play
physically tough. Like that seemed to give the Bills some problems.
I wondered if the Patriots might sort of have some
of the same and they did. And with Drake May
making play after play and throw after throw with the
game on the line, I mean that second down throw
(03:37):
kind of down the sideline, the throw to Digs on
the run to his right, there's so many to like.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
And like, if you're a Patriots fan, you've been.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Through a lot kind of what North Carolina's fans are going.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Through right now, which is a different story for a
different day.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
This is kind of the other side of it, and like,
this looks like a Patriots team that is primed.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
To be really, really good.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Drake May.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
It was not unanimous, but he did have fans in
the pre draft process. The issue when coaches and scouts
were looking at him was of the six quarterbacks who
went up Hie in that draft, right between Kata Williams,
Jaden Drake, Michael Pennix, JJ McCarthy, bow Nicks, Drake May
was the one that had the furthest to go. He
had played the least amount of football. I believe he
(04:22):
was the youngest out of the entire group. I mean,
Katleb Williams had played a ton his entire career. Jade
Daniels was in college for quite a while. Obviously, Penis
had the injuries, but he had played a lot of football.
JJ was on the younger side but had played quite
a bit, and Bo Nicks had played at that time
more games anybody in college football history until Dylan Gabrids
dil and then broke that record. But with May, the
(04:42):
upside was there because the physical characteristics, because of the mindset,
you just didn't know how long is this going to
take it?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Again? I was there in week one. It did not
look like what we saw last time.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I mean that though, he just saw right there watching
this like that was a wild type of play by
Drake May. But it's also so you know, there's times
where you got a team playing cover two, I think
this might be yeah, that's the throw right, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah too. They always, like coaches will say it. I'm
you know, neither of us is like an ex's and
nose expert, but coach will always say the well, especially
when you're throwing to the field side, the wider side
(05:14):
of the field, like just take the flat route on
that because you're not going to be able to fit
that ball in. Drake big shoots that thing across before
the safety can get there.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
He's got a big arm, He's a big dude.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
He can move, he's tough, He's clearly one the respect
of his teammates here.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Is that going to translate into a.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Patriots team making the playoffs after two consecutive what four
and thirteen seasons?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I wanted to say they were each of the.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Last I think for the first time, especially being the
team to Kell of the Bills, you at least have
to take into consideration this might be a playoff.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Makam.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
I mean, this looks like the Commanders from last year.
And I know that Drake May is not a rookie
whereas Jaden was. But that's what it looks like. His
new coach, new energy, a free agency that sort of
toward like making the offensive and defensive lines a little
bit better, which is sort of what the Commanders had
last year. Signed a bunch of veterans to get that
to kind of fill in some of the depth issues.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
It does feel like the Commanders from last year.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
I want to go back quickly before we get to
the other really good game, which was Broncos Eagles. In
the draft pre draft process, like, you're right, like it
wasn't unanimous that Drake May was sort of the third
best quarterback.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
I think some people, especially some of.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
The more veteran people, I've always felt like maybe we're like,
all right, he's got a little too far to go.
But here's what I knew. Teams were trying to trade
for Drake May. And while the Patriots sort of said
they were open to it, they really weren't. Like the
Giants tried. They made a huge offer. I think it
was on the clock or maybe a couple picks before
(06:49):
I can't remember anywhere, and the Patriots and they said
they would consider everything, and I think they just never
considered anything. And that was the first time that night
when I was like, all right, like maybe this guy
really is this good, because that's the kind of treatment
you give to someone.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
Who is going to be your franchise quarterback.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
On the flip side of things, you had a team
yesterday in the Philadelphia Eagles that we've talked about a lot,
even though they got off to a four and oh start,
and you know when you're four and oh you can
sit there and say, hey, you know it's all being overblown.
I think a lot of that was true. Then you
watch the very issues that people have been picking apart
all come back to bite them in a game that
(07:33):
they seem to have under control. I know Sean Payton
said he felt like they were in a great position throughout,
but you're down twenty one to seven on the road
to the defending Super Bowl champs. You have to on
some levels think like, hey, how are we going to
break through? The Broncos offense did break through in that game,
and whether it was just the way the Eagles played
offense with I think sa Quon Barkley had one carry
(07:55):
for zero yards in the entire second half of the
two touchdown lead, or it's just the continue inability to
establish a consistent passing game. What exactly is going on
right now? Ian to you with the Philly offense?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Well, the thing I'm trying to figure out and I
was listening to Kyle Brant sort of talk about this
very issue, which is basically sort of like what are
the Eagles right? Like he was like, well, they're a
running team, Okay, Well, Sekwon got like six carries either
five or six carries yesterday?
Speaker 4 (08:20):
So are they a running team? Like, if they're a
running team, why don't they run the ball?
Speaker 5 (08:25):
You know?
Speaker 3 (08:25):
This is like in Moneyball where they're like, you know,
it's a Brad Pitt talking to these old scouts and
he's like, he's got a great swing, right, Well, if
he's got a great swing, why doesn't he hit good.
It's like, well, yeah, but he's got a great It's like, well,
how come he doesn't get an hit? So, like, if
the Eagles are a running team, why aren't they run
the ball?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
And I just.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
I would say this, first of all, I think they
are going to be fine.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
I think they're going to be in the playoffs and
go deep in the playoffs, and they're going to be fine.
I think we all a little bit have to get
in understand the mindset that when it's early October, it's
where we used to be in early September. Because nobody
does anything in the preseason anymore. So the egos are
still trying to figure out what they are. And it's
(09:08):
October and they're four and one, and it's a little
bit of a mess, and they've gotten a ton of
local criticism, and they're going to be okay because last
year they figured it out toward November. This year they're
on track to figure it out sort of toward November.
It's just like, to get there, we all have to
deal with them being like kind of a little bit
of a you know, weird team for a while. Again,
(09:31):
I still think they're going to be fine, but watching
them figure it on a fly has been not always.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
The most comfortable thing ever.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
I think for the Broncos, that was a pretty cool win.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Like this you know Broncos team too, Like I don't
know what they are either, except they've made a ton
of big plays at the biggest moments and Bonnicks has
been really uneven, but when they got to have it,
he's had some really really nice plays too.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
So kind of two teams figuring out it feels like.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
And I would also also say we can't overlook Vanced
Joseph's defense, the way that they adjusted in the second half.
They have this habit of making things really challenging on
whoever they're facing offensively, The fact that you have an
Eagles team that's trying to figure this out right now,
and the way that Denver uses all those pass rushers.
They've obviously got one of the top corners in Patrick,
Sir Tan, They've got some other guys who are not
(10:20):
household names, But I mean, look at that.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
You just knew Sir Tam.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Was going to lock it down yesterday, you know, And it.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Was impressive to watch at a time that the AFC
West know for everything that we were talking about with
the Chargers in the early going, and how good can
that team be. They've stumbled in these past couple of
weeks amidst ongoing injury issues. Obviously, the Raiders are not
playing well at all. And the Chiefs, while we've seen
them take a little step forward, they've got reinforcements coming.
(10:47):
Is it possible here? I think we at least have
to consider whether or not it is the Broncos that
are the greatest threat to Kansas City and the AFC West.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
We'll be right back with more on the inside.
Speaker 5 (10:57):
Right, Let's welcome into our Steve Whites to the conversation.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Here. Steve start out in what might have been the
wildest in a afternoon of wild games yesterday, the shootouts
between the Bucks and the Seahawks. Two quarterbacks who let's remember,
were teammates in Carolina not that long ago, and with
those two options, the Panthers decided neither guys was the answer. Yesterday,
(11:38):
we saw two guys who both and this is not
talking in isolation. They've both been good the season, but
they're both playing it, you know, an MVP caliber type
of a level here. What did you learn out of
that game which the Bucks ultimately prevailed it?
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Wow?
Speaker 6 (11:52):
I mean, first off, those quarters, you know that both
of them were playing fearlessly right We saw them earlier
in their career.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
They were afraid to make mistakes.
Speaker 6 (11:59):
When you watched the game, Baker and Sam donald Man,
they were loading up and they were firing, they were
taking shots.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
We're seeing Baker to the touchdown right here. But they just.
Speaker 6 (12:10):
Compete at a level right now where they know their
teams are good around them, the players are good around them,
and the level of trust and the play call and
everything else in the.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Execution with both of them is like next level.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
But what we're saying about the Buccaneers, and I've been
saying this since the preseason, is they you know, we
talk about teams with the culture, We never mentioned Tampa Bay.
Tampa Bay has a culture, right they expect to win.
They go in there like we're gonna beat you up.
You're gonna have to beat us. We're not gonna beat ourselves.
And that's what Seattle did with that Sam Donald unfortunate
touch interception. They beat themselves because otherwise they were going
(12:44):
to march down the field and score and probably end
it right there. And so I just think the fearlessness
that the Buccaneers are playing with and that level of
confidence is something we have to take seriously when we're
talking about a team that can possibly.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Come out of the NFC.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Yeah, you know, it's you talk about the Bucks culture, Steve.
They are so banged up they could barely practice this week.
Mike Evans isn't playing, Chris Gottowan's is coming back, starting
running backs not playing.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
They got offensive linemen who are out. I mean, it's
the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
And like you know, we hear coaches say things like
you know, next man up, mentality and all that, and
that is all is all very nice, and then we
you know, see a couple of teams really go out
and have a strong enough infrastructure where they can really
withstand all those injuries. We saw the forty nine ers
do it Thursday. We see the Bucks do it this Sunday.
(13:36):
Like they certainly made some mistakes, had a lot of
guys playing in there who were not starters, and we're
counted on for key roles. But because they are so
strong sort of like internally, they can they can deal
with it. Now, there's other teams.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Who dealt with a lot of injuries who went the
other way. We can talk about that in a second.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Baltimore would be one, But it really is unbelievable seeing
how the Bucks kind of can withstand all that and
keep going. And the other thing I would say is,
and obviously, you know, this was probably not a great
game if you were like a Panthers fan, Steve, but
I love the sort of redemption narrative of quarterbacks. And
(14:15):
every quarterback that gets benched can now look at.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
A couple of different examples across the league.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
And bag all right, like, if this guy can do it,
then maybe I can do it too.
Speaker 6 (14:27):
And guys, let's look over over the fact that these
guys have two wide receivers who are emerging as likely
Pro bowlers. I mean Jack Smith and Jigba who we're
seeing right here. He was sick yesterday with some of
the plays he continued to make for Donald. Donald was
putting it on him. But I mean in Jigua was
getting open and making incredible plays.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
And then I'm not going a BUCA. I mean, this
guy's right now the offensive.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Cronown still way better than Gronk. Good job, I saw that.
Speaker 6 (14:52):
Man, I'm glad that the heat of Gronk up that
was that was That was not good.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
It's not good.
Speaker 6 (14:57):
But this dude, I mean, this is like his second
game where he's made these incredible.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Fourth quarter plays. He's a rookie.
Speaker 6 (15:08):
He's getting open, but I mean he was covered on
a lot of these plays and he's making great catches.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
So when you're seeing and that's when I say, you
have the trust.
Speaker 6 (15:15):
Both of these teams, these quarterbacks have the trust in
their players, and that is a hard thing to do.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Again when you played the first part of your career,
like both.
Speaker 6 (15:22):
These guys did, trying not to make mistakes. They weren't
playing to their talent level. Maybe they weren't playing to
their egos. Now they are and it's fun to see
Ian to talk about. You know what you just said,
These guys re emerging, not just in systems, but playing
up to their potential capabilities. That's always been there, so
I think that is really cool. But when you got
(15:43):
players like they're playing with that helps Somewhere.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
There is an entire landfill of social media posts by
Bucks fans complain about why they didn't draft a corner
or alignment in the first round because of all their needs.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
This is literally why you don't draft for need.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
It's why gms like Jays and Light are in one
place for a decade plus. It's because you have a
philosophy for how you're going to build that roster. You
don't just collect players at the various positions like you get.
You build a team, and the way that they have
built the team there is constantly taking the best player available.
(16:18):
That was a mecca Abuka. Now, did they know that
Baker Mayfield ou Mekka Buka was going to be maybe
the best quarterback receiver combo in the league five weeks
in the season.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Probably not.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
But the only knocks on Abuka coming out were like,
is he as explosive as the other wide receivers. Well,
he's not the biggest guy, but everybody said in terms
of just a pure receiver, like a football player, you
want a Meccha Buk. We've had him on the Insiders.
I mean, he's so mature. He's a super intelligent young guy,
(16:50):
very low key too, and I kind of gave him
crap about that last time we had him on. It
was just like, dude, how do you find it on
the field, because he flips that switch man and he
is a bad man on the football field. In the Bucks,
I mean, credit them for as beat up as they are.
Bakers beat up, No Bucky Irving yesterday. They got all
kinds of different moving parts on the offensive line. Chris
(17:10):
Godwin's not himself yet, Mike Evans probably gon be at
least another week, Jalen McMillan still, and all they do
is go in and hang thirty eight points on the
Slahawk's defense that'd been one of the best in the NFL.
It was really, really impressive, and I'd still say for
Seattle there's a lot of good Those are two of
the better teams in the NFC, and the Bucks and
and the other taste of that next week when they
continue their West Coast or NFC West Tour against the
(17:35):
forty nine Ers' slip it over to the East coast though, Steve,
because you've got a Ravens team right now that is
also as beat up as anybody in the NFL. And
the inactive list when we were all texting about it yesterday,
like nobody's ever seen an active list where like everyone
on it's a Pro bowler and that's what they had,
including Lamar Jackson. But still there's some endemic issues here,
(17:56):
starting out with the run defense has been really really bad. Yes,
not having much the Pro Bowl players makes a big difference,
but you just watch them and you go you'd like
to think, if San Francisco can do it, if Tampa
can do it, if Minnesota can do it and put
a confident product on the field, how in the world
are the Ravens getting absolutely boat raced by a Texans
(18:16):
team that up until a couple of weeks ago didn't
like they can do anything.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Right tom even when they were healthy, this was happening.
That's the issue, right.
Speaker 6 (18:24):
We can talk about the injuries, we can talk about
how poorly they played against the Texans, but this is
nothing new.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
This has been systematic ever since Week one.
Speaker 6 (18:33):
And when I watch them, I cover their game against
Detroit and I watch them.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
To me it's basic stuff.
Speaker 6 (18:40):
Tell me, when you see a defender getting off of
a block, it doesn't happen, right, They're getting locked up
and they're getting moved, and that's we're like, whoa, Okay,
I know Nomni Matabik is not there. Okay, he's a stud.
He he clears things up for guys. But you're just
saying good players getting blocked up, like it's a weird
thing in the defenders are there, they're not making plays
(19:04):
and so it's it's it's odd now when I watch
them schematically defensively, they ask a lot out of the
the especially the second level right, the out of their
inside linebacker pro quant Smith, who was right. But they
ask a lot of those guys, and they did it
early last year and they had to change some things. Okay,
remember when our Darius Washington came in and started safety,
(19:24):
they moved him a little up, move Kyle Hamilton back. Well,
they don't have our Darius Washington. Malachi Starks is playing
back there. But defensively, I don't know because I don't
know if it's scheme, because again I saw guys just
not getting.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
I mean, last year they brought in Dnp's right.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
And Dean's still consulting.
Speaker 6 (19:42):
They say, he's still consulting from Afar, but maybe he's
he's taking a step back.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
But if you go watch them, it's just simple stuff.
Speaker 6 (19:50):
Man, They're they're just getting beat and it happened every week,
Like what is what has happened here? Just individually as
posician groups where you're getting whipped, simple stuff all game long.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
It's incredible.
Speaker 6 (20:06):
You know, I thought the Lions just beat him upcause
the Lions are the Lions. But you're seeing that stuff
every week.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Yeah, and you know it's Listen to Harball and he asked,
is asked, of course about essentially whether or not zach
Orr is the problem and whether or not they're going
to do more, make a change the defensive coordinator, and
he seems adamant that they are not.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Now they keep struggling.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
You know, obviously we'll see, but you know that would
sort of speak to what you're saying that he believes
it's more physical than it is scheme related. And obviously,
you know you can, you know, a good coach and
scheme can help. But like if it's players who just
need to break free a box more like you know,
that'll be easier when better players come in. But I
(20:49):
just I don't know. I'm really fascinating to see where
this goes. I mean, John Harbaugh as a head coach
has done a lot of really, really really good things,
and I feel like maybe the best thing he does
is kind of manage the locker room, deal with the personalities,
and like keep everyone together.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
That is going to be tested.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
That is going to get really really interesting because like
we haven't seen a Ravens team start one and four
and I don't even know when, and you know, how
do they.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
I mean, how do they respond? Is going to be
really really interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
And now you've got a game that suddenly feels huge
Sunday against the Rams at home, the last game before
the buye. Yeah, you want to get to the buy
get Lamar back, get other guys healthy. But if you
lose this game, you're one in five. You are now
in a position where you need to come damn close
to running the table the rest of the way to
even have a shot at getting in the playoffs. We'd
(21:50):
all agree if the Ravens are healthy at the end,
they'll be one of the most dangerous teams in the NFL.
But ask the Bengals from last year. How it works
out when you put yourself in such a big hole
that even if if you do get healthy, even if
you are playing well down the stretch, you need everything
to follow the right way real quickly. And on Lamar
last game before the bye, thirty seconds or less. What
are the odds if any we see Lamar on the
(22:12):
field in your mind in week six.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
Could be on the practice field. Doesn't feel great for
the game and field.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
They are still good enough to win, and god it
feels like they have to, but I don't feel great
about him playing this week.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
The Rams are sick.
Speaker 6 (22:27):
The Rams have to losing that game, so the forty
nine are coming out there with bad intention. This is
gonna be a tough game for Baltimore, especially the way
they're playing defensively.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Rams can easily be five and oh two. Absolutely just
painful losses for them. So far right, Steve, you're back
in part two of the podcasts. Later on in the show,
depending on how you're consuming this, we're all over the place,
different versions. We'll talk about the Bengals quarterback situation as
they continue to move forward. We got a lot more
to come. The Vikings getting a big win in London.
(22:54):
What's going on with the Jets at Z and five
is they head to London a whole lot more? Stick
around or go to part two of the podcast, however
you do it.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
We're all over the place for Steve p and I'm
talking to see you that
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!