July 30, 2020 • 11 mins
Wayne Larrivee sits down with former Packers tackle/guard Mike Wahle.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
For more than one years, the Green Bay Packers have
been a benchmark for football excellence. Thousands of players have
helped pave the way, and we're here to tell their stories.
I'm Wayne Laravi. This is the Packers Alumni Spotlight Hall
(00:26):
of Fame. General manager Ron Wolf always had an affinity
for the Armed Services academies. He appreciated the honor, the
dedication to duty, the discipline, and the toughness of the
men who came out of those schools. In the supplemental
draft of the Packers spent a second round draft choice
on a midshipment from the Naval Academy. Mike Wall turned
(00:49):
out to be a draft choice well spent well to
think about the Naval Academy. That translates so well for
the NFL. I think for especially for guys that are
kind of mediogra athletes like I was is at the
Naval Academy. You're so happy to be at football. You're
so thrilled to be in that environment and be able
to kind of be released from all the obligations of
(01:11):
your daily life that you'll run through a brick wall
every single day. So when it comes to work, ethic, perseverance, determination,
all those those characteristics that really can help you thrive
in the NFL. UM I would come to practice every
day and we'd be cutting our start, starting defensive lineman.
We'd be going, you know, full speed contact tackles to
the ground every single day. And so when I got here,
(01:33):
it was a bit of an adjustment, I think for
for the other guys, because I would probably play too hard,
a combination of playing too hard and not having enough
skill where I was almost a I was out there,
you know, potentially hurting someone. But as it as it got,
as it got further along, and I developed that skill
and that technique. UM, that work ethic really carried me
through and helped me kind of accelerate my learning curve.
(01:54):
And Mike, you joined a team that had been to
two Super Bowls, back to back Super Bowls. Reggie White
was on one side, Brett Farve was on the other side.
You had great offensive linemen around you. I mean, that
must have been heavy stuff for a kid to come
in from the Naval Academy to that team. You know,
it sure wasn't. And I don't think I realized the
gravity of it until you walk in the door for
the first time. You see all those those figures. Um,
(02:16):
I've always told guys from different teams, you know, where
you get drafted is is a coin flip. And I
was so fortunate to be drafted not only because of
the players, but because the organization in general. The way
they way they uh they're winning attitude, the way they
help you develop as a as a as a person,
and obviously on the field, but having that specific group
(02:36):
of of leadership and talent in the in the locker
room for those early years really shows you kind of
where the bar is, what the standards are in here.
The Wall went on to play for three different coaches
in his Green Bay career, Mike Holm, Grin Ray Rhodes,
and Mike Sherman. When I first got here, I held out, um,
(02:57):
which was looking back, just this kind of a silly
thing to do. We held out we wanted to get there.
Some terms on the contract that you're that my agent wanted,
uh want to change. So by the time I got
to Mike and the first time I actually I had
a conversation was was I think three weeks into training camp,
and he said something to the effect of I'll paraphrase
he asked me a question, Hey, did you get what
you wanted out of the contract night? But yeah, thanks coach,
(03:19):
I and just exploded on me, I'm not going to
talk to you for the rest of the year. Blah
blah blah. He was, he was. He was angry that
I had held out, He was angry at my agent.
And I had to work my way back into his
good graces. And I think a couple of a couple
of weeks of just really practicing hard and showed him
that I was, you know, really dedicated to improving and
being a part of his team. He kind of opened
up to me a little bit. And Mike was the
(03:43):
thing I would like to say about both actually all
three of those coaches, in contrast to some of the
things you've see now, is all those guys were teachers first.
They were teachers, and I think that's the most important
part of of coaching that we sometimes overlook, is they
knew how to interact on a personal level and at
an organizational level and kind of teach these big ideas
(04:04):
by breaking them down into simple concepts. Wall played on
what I think is the best offensive line since the
Lombardi Packers in Green Bay. Chad clifted a left hand,
Mark Tauscher on the right side, Marco Rivera and left guard,
Mike flanagets center and Wall at right guard. They were
a power blocking unit that helped him On Green become
(04:27):
the franchises all time leading rusher. We took a lot
of pride and then we were again. We were so lucky.
You know, when you when you're in it, you think, uh,
you know that we all know that we're called cog
in the wheel, but you think maybe your size cogs
as outside like our offensive line, and we were good,
but certainly that having a running back like com On Green,
(04:50):
having the weapons that we did outside, having Bubba Franks,
I mean, you know, obviously Brett throwing the ball and
up to Donald Driver and all these really special athletes.
I mean from a defensive stand point our perspective, I
really don't know what I would have done. And then
you had Kevin Barry to the mix. So we had
a three fifty pound tight end and we'd go in
and run uh load sixteen times a game. It's like,
(05:10):
what are you gonna do? You know, we know we
know we're gonna run it. You know we're gonna run it.
And that feeling of being so good at something that
we knew no matter if we just keep going and
we know it's gonna work, and we just could do
that time and and time out. I mean, that's that's
probably the you know, the best feeling in sports is
knowing that we don't we don't care if you know,
if we're gonna run what we're gonna run, We're just
(05:31):
gonna We're gonna go out there and dominate. There was
a game at Tampa, and you guys always struggled with Tampa,
and this is when they were coming off the Super
Bowl and everything else. But this time you went down
there and you one and I remember a drive it
had to be like nineties some yards, almost all of
it on the ground. What kind of feeling was that
to you? To be bowling over the Super Bowl champs
like that yet their place. You know, we were running
(05:53):
and I remember the drive and I remember running uh
ninety eight, which was an outside run play to the
right a couple of times. And there was a specific
call that game which says something where you you kind
of see a tendency in one of the defensive alignment
stances and either it was you know, Marco Mark or
Bubba making a call over and over and again so
we could get this three man rotation and pick it
up and kind of seal that outside play. And all
(06:14):
we had to do on the backside is is just
basically trying to cut off either that linebacker defensive tackle
for for Chad and I and I just thought, Man,
if it was always this easy down here, we would
have more success. But that was a great team we
certainly we enjoyed. I think when you get to a
certain level in this league, you really just want to
showcase your ability and play against the best, and they
certainly were. Most of the players of that early two
(06:38):
thousand's era will tell you the best team they played
on was the two thousand three squad, the one that
barely snuck into the playoffs in the final week of
the regular season. The Packers then beat the Seahawks in
the wild card round, setting up a divisional playoff confrontation
with the Eagles in Philadelphia. That game contained a play
(07:00):
and a moment that lives in Green Bay infamy. I've
always said that that two thousand three teams the best
team I've ever been on, hands down. Uh. I still
can't believe that we we lost that game and when
it comes up on TV, and my kids will turn
on and start giggling because they I think there's a
point where I start swearing on television and whatnot. But
they that was a real that was a real special team.
(07:23):
We certainly we certainly thought that, uh we were going
to see Caroline in the championship. Um, I can't even
watch that that fourth and play. But the play that
makes me sick to my stomach is the goal line play.
We had a fourth and fourth and inches on the
goal line and we called a new play. Was like
a ninety two g lead. Um, we got some penetration,
(07:44):
my feet get kicked out, I trip them on and
then the whole thing was just complete disaster. And it
led to another fourth and one where I had a
I'll never forget. I had a backup defensive tackle between
Flanagin and I and we had been lighting this guy
up all game and we're just pleading with Brett on
the side. You know, just snap it, just snap it.
Brett did the right thing you do with the coach calls,
(08:05):
and we ended up punting the ball and then they
had the fourth and twenty six and we just just six.
In your mind, is like God, that could have been it.
I wrote an entire chapter in a book about that.
Before it was fourth and twenty six. It was fourth
and one and a little over two minutes ago in
the game. And as Bob mcgainn, the Great Scribe once wrote,
you know, the Eagles were so gassed that they couldn't
(08:27):
fall off sides, much less jump off sides in that game. Mike,
when when the play came in and you guys knew
you were just gonna try to draw them off sides
and then punt the ball, what was your feeling, because
you you know what I mean? And there was the
halftime speech that Sherman gave that you know, if we
get another fourth and one after that goal line play
right before halftime, field, we're gonna ride your your backsides
(08:50):
all the way to the Super Bowl. What was the
feeling at that point that was before and fourth and
tent I'm trying to collect my thoughts. It was so God,
we were so angry. We were so so angry because
we wanted that. Um, we believe in ourselves more than anything.
We we knew with the talent we had in the
backfield and the guys we had up front and quite frankly.
(09:12):
We had played Philly earlier in the year in the
Monday in a football game, and I believe we ran
for two fifty that that game, but we lost. I
think this game, I know we ran up for over
two d and we lost, so getting six inches. You know,
at the it's always easy to look back and go, hey,
you know, share, this is what you should have done. Right. Um,
I'd take it to my grave that I bet unless
(09:34):
every time. But you have to make the you have to.
I don't have to make that call, you know, that's
a that's a That was a coach Sherman call, and
he did what he thought was right at the time.
And you know, obviously, who thinks that kid from e. C.
L A Is going to catch a pass much less
of fourth and twenty six exactly. It did become fourth
and after that for Philadelphia. But let me ask you this. Now,
you move on from the Packers, eventually go free agency,
(09:56):
and you have some really good years with Carolina and
then um, you know, go on to Seattle for a
quick year. But talk a little bit about the other
organizations you played for in comparison to Green Bay. What
was the experience like so I always and let me
let me start by saying, you know, it was great
playing for for other for other teams, and and certainly
(10:17):
I felt very, very lucky to finish my career in
Seattle because it made me fall in love with football again.
I had had some rough years in in Carolina really
because of injury more than anything else. Um, but I'll
never forget I signed with Carolina and there's always this,
you know, trepidation with leaving a place like Green Bay,
and we kind of thought that, you know, it was
kind of best for my career at that point, that
(10:38):
that we move on. My wife and I and UM.
I remember sitting in a residence and in Charlotte about
four weeks later, and I called my wife and I
just said, we we just made the biggest mistake of
our careers for leaving. It was just such a This
was such a special place and you just don't realize
it till you're till you're gone. And uh know, I've
(11:00):
I've probably told that still a million times of different people.
And that's that's no disrespect to the to the Panthers organization,
which I think is a great organization. Um but this
is such a special place and and just the fact
that I can still call Flee and call still called
Brian Angle on the phone, I can still call DC Mackenzie,
and you can talk to these people all the time,
um Mark Lavat, Chris Gizzy. I talked to these guys
(11:23):
more often than I talked to anybody else in the NFL,
you know. And so to have those relationships and be
able to be in this in the smaller community in
the NFL is is just such a special, special thing.
For more than one years, the Green Bay Packers have
been a benchmark for football excellence. Thousands of players have
helped pave the way, and we're here to tell their stories.
I'm Wayne Laravi. This is the Packers Alumni Spotlight Hall
(00:26):
of Fame. General manager Ron Wolf always had an affinity
for the Armed Services academies. He appreciated the honor, the
dedication to duty, the discipline, and the toughness of the
men who came out of those schools. In the supplemental
draft of the Packers spent a second round draft choice
on a midshipment from the Naval Academy. Mike Wall turned
(00:49):
out to be a draft choice well spent well to
think about the Naval Academy. That translates so well for
the NFL. I think for especially for guys that are
kind of mediogra athletes like I was is at the
Naval Academy. You're so happy to be at football. You're
so thrilled to be in that environment and be able
to kind of be released from all the obligations of
(01:11):
your daily life that you'll run through a brick wall
every single day. So when it comes to work, ethic, perseverance, determination,
all those those characteristics that really can help you thrive
in the NFL. UM I would come to practice every
day and we'd be cutting our start, starting defensive lineman.
We'd be going, you know, full speed contact tackles to
the ground every single day. And so when I got here,
(01:33):
it was a bit of an adjustment, I think for
for the other guys, because I would probably play too hard,
a combination of playing too hard and not having enough
skill where I was almost a I was out there,
you know, potentially hurting someone. But as it as it got,
as it got further along, and I developed that skill
and that technique. UM, that work ethic really carried me
through and helped me kind of accelerate my learning curve.
(01:54):
And Mike, you joined a team that had been to
two Super Bowls, back to back Super Bowls. Reggie White
was on one side, Brett Farve was on the other side.
You had great offensive linemen around you. I mean, that
must have been heavy stuff for a kid to come
in from the Naval Academy to that team. You know,
it sure wasn't. And I don't think I realized the
gravity of it until you walk in the door for
the first time. You see all those those figures. Um,
(02:16):
I've always told guys from different teams, you know, where
you get drafted is is a coin flip. And I
was so fortunate to be drafted not only because of
the players, but because the organization in general. The way
they way they uh they're winning attitude, the way they
help you develop as a as a as a person,
and obviously on the field, but having that specific group
(02:36):
of of leadership and talent in the in the locker
room for those early years really shows you kind of
where the bar is, what the standards are in here.
The Wall went on to play for three different coaches
in his Green Bay career, Mike Holm, Grin Ray Rhodes,
and Mike Sherman. When I first got here, I held out, um,
(02:57):
which was looking back, just this kind of a silly
thing to do. We held out we wanted to get there.
Some terms on the contract that you're that my agent wanted,
uh want to change. So by the time I got
to Mike and the first time I actually I had
a conversation was was I think three weeks into training camp,
and he said something to the effect of I'll paraphrase
he asked me a question, Hey, did you get what
you wanted out of the contract night? But yeah, thanks coach,
(03:19):
I and just exploded on me, I'm not going to
talk to you for the rest of the year. Blah
blah blah. He was, he was. He was angry that
I had held out, He was angry at my agent.
And I had to work my way back into his
good graces. And I think a couple of a couple
of weeks of just really practicing hard and showed him
that I was, you know, really dedicated to improving and
being a part of his team. He kind of opened
up to me a little bit. And Mike was the
(03:43):
thing I would like to say about both actually all
three of those coaches, in contrast to some of the
things you've see now, is all those guys were teachers first.
They were teachers, and I think that's the most important
part of of coaching that we sometimes overlook, is they
knew how to interact on a personal level and at
an organizational level and kind of teach these big ideas
(04:04):
by breaking them down into simple concepts. Wall played on
what I think is the best offensive line since the
Lombardi Packers in Green Bay. Chad clifted a left hand,
Mark Tauscher on the right side, Marco Rivera and left guard,
Mike flanagets center and Wall at right guard. They were
a power blocking unit that helped him On Green become
(04:27):
the franchises all time leading rusher. We took a lot
of pride and then we were again. We were so lucky.
You know, when you when you're in it, you think, uh,
you know that we all know that we're called cog
in the wheel, but you think maybe your size cogs
as outside like our offensive line, and we were good,
but certainly that having a running back like com On Green,
(04:50):
having the weapons that we did outside, having Bubba Franks,
I mean, you know, obviously Brett throwing the ball and
up to Donald Driver and all these really special athletes.
I mean from a defensive stand point our perspective, I
really don't know what I would have done. And then
you had Kevin Barry to the mix. So we had
a three fifty pound tight end and we'd go in
and run uh load sixteen times a game. It's like,
(05:10):
what are you gonna do? You know, we know we
know we're gonna run it. You know we're gonna run it.
And that feeling of being so good at something that
we knew no matter if we just keep going and
we know it's gonna work, and we just could do
that time and and time out. I mean, that's that's
probably the you know, the best feeling in sports is
knowing that we don't we don't care if you know,
if we're gonna run what we're gonna run, We're just
(05:31):
gonna We're gonna go out there and dominate. There was
a game at Tampa, and you guys always struggled with Tampa,
and this is when they were coming off the Super
Bowl and everything else. But this time you went down
there and you one and I remember a drive it
had to be like nineties some yards, almost all of
it on the ground. What kind of feeling was that
to you? To be bowling over the Super Bowl champs
like that yet their place. You know, we were running
(05:53):
and I remember the drive and I remember running uh
ninety eight, which was an outside run play to the
right a couple of times. And there was a specific
call that game which says something where you you kind
of see a tendency in one of the defensive alignment
stances and either it was you know, Marco Mark or
Bubba making a call over and over and again so
we could get this three man rotation and pick it
up and kind of seal that outside play. And all
(06:14):
we had to do on the backside is is just
basically trying to cut off either that linebacker defensive tackle
for for Chad and I and I just thought, Man,
if it was always this easy down here, we would
have more success. But that was a great team we
certainly we enjoyed. I think when you get to a
certain level in this league, you really just want to
showcase your ability and play against the best, and they
certainly were. Most of the players of that early two
(06:38):
thousand's era will tell you the best team they played
on was the two thousand three squad, the one that
barely snuck into the playoffs in the final week of
the regular season. The Packers then beat the Seahawks in
the wild card round, setting up a divisional playoff confrontation
with the Eagles in Philadelphia. That game contained a play
(07:00):
and a moment that lives in Green Bay infamy. I've
always said that that two thousand three teams the best
team I've ever been on, hands down. Uh. I still
can't believe that we we lost that game and when
it comes up on TV, and my kids will turn
on and start giggling because they I think there's a
point where I start swearing on television and whatnot. But
they that was a real that was a real special team.
(07:23):
We certainly we certainly thought that, uh we were going
to see Caroline in the championship. Um, I can't even
watch that that fourth and play. But the play that
makes me sick to my stomach is the goal line play.
We had a fourth and fourth and inches on the
goal line and we called a new play. Was like
a ninety two g lead. Um, we got some penetration,
(07:44):
my feet get kicked out, I trip them on and
then the whole thing was just complete disaster. And it
led to another fourth and one where I had a
I'll never forget. I had a backup defensive tackle between
Flanagin and I and we had been lighting this guy
up all game and we're just pleading with Brett on
the side. You know, just snap it, just snap it.
Brett did the right thing you do with the coach calls,
(08:05):
and we ended up punting the ball and then they
had the fourth and twenty six and we just just six.
In your mind, is like God, that could have been it.
I wrote an entire chapter in a book about that.
Before it was fourth and twenty six. It was fourth
and one and a little over two minutes ago in
the game. And as Bob mcgainn, the Great Scribe once wrote,
you know, the Eagles were so gassed that they couldn't
(08:27):
fall off sides, much less jump off sides in that game. Mike,
when when the play came in and you guys knew
you were just gonna try to draw them off sides
and then punt the ball, what was your feeling, because
you you know what I mean? And there was the
halftime speech that Sherman gave that you know, if we
get another fourth and one after that goal line play
right before halftime, field, we're gonna ride your your backsides
(08:50):
all the way to the Super Bowl. What was the
feeling at that point that was before and fourth and
tent I'm trying to collect my thoughts. It was so God,
we were so angry. We were so so angry because
we wanted that. Um, we believe in ourselves more than anything.
We we knew with the talent we had in the
backfield and the guys we had up front and quite frankly.
(09:12):
We had played Philly earlier in the year in the
Monday in a football game, and I believe we ran
for two fifty that that game, but we lost. I
think this game, I know we ran up for over
two d and we lost, so getting six inches. You know,
at the it's always easy to look back and go, hey,
you know, share, this is what you should have done. Right. Um,
I'd take it to my grave that I bet unless
(09:34):
every time. But you have to make the you have to.
I don't have to make that call, you know, that's
a that's a That was a coach Sherman call, and
he did what he thought was right at the time.
And you know, obviously, who thinks that kid from e. C.
L A Is going to catch a pass much less
of fourth and twenty six exactly. It did become fourth
and after that for Philadelphia. But let me ask you this. Now,
you move on from the Packers, eventually go free agency,
(09:56):
and you have some really good years with Carolina and
then um, you know, go on to Seattle for a
quick year. But talk a little bit about the other
organizations you played for in comparison to Green Bay. What
was the experience like so I always and let me
let me start by saying, you know, it was great
playing for for other for other teams, and and certainly
(10:17):
I felt very, very lucky to finish my career in
Seattle because it made me fall in love with football again.
I had had some rough years in in Carolina really
because of injury more than anything else. Um, but I'll
never forget I signed with Carolina and there's always this,
you know, trepidation with leaving a place like Green Bay,
and we kind of thought that, you know, it was
kind of best for my career at that point, that
(10:38):
that we move on. My wife and I and UM.
I remember sitting in a residence and in Charlotte about
four weeks later, and I called my wife and I
just said, we we just made the biggest mistake of
our careers for leaving. It was just such a This
was such a special place and you just don't realize
it till you're till you're gone. And uh know, I've
(11:00):
I've probably told that still a million times of different people.
And that's that's no disrespect to the to the Panthers organization,
which I think is a great organization. Um but this
is such a special place and and just the fact
that I can still call Flee and call still called
Brian Angle on the phone, I can still call DC Mackenzie,
and you can talk to these people all the time,
um Mark Lavat, Chris Gizzy. I talked to these guys
(11:23):
more often than I talked to anybody else in the NFL,
you know. And so to have those relationships and be
able to be in this in the smaller community in
the NFL is is just such a special, special thing.
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