December 3, 2024 • 37 mins
Mike and Wes review the Thanksgiving victory over the Dolphins, looking at the performance of the offense (4:05) and defense (8:39), and preview the upcoming Thursday night matchup in Detroit (16:19), giving their keys to victory (29:02) and looking at the implications in the NFC North (32:42).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from
Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spaffer, joined as always
by my trusted colleague Weston Hodkoitz. We're coming to you
here from our studios at lambeau Field and Wes. We
got another sort of double duty show here to do
because we have another Thursday night game coming up. We
(00:38):
haven't yet reviewed the Packers last game.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
So what is today?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yeah? What day of the week is it? Right now?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Actually day?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
But we're going to start with the Packers Thanksgiving Night
victory thirty to seventeen over the Miami Dolphins was the
final score. And I mean Packers did what they needed
to do, getting two home wins in five days to
get themselves to nine and three, And this one they
(01:06):
went about it a little bit differently, But what was
similar to the San Francisco game is the Packers jumped
out on top, built themselves a big lead, and then
kind of rode that to the finish line and walked
out a lambo with another w.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
These two games, Mike, between San Francisco and Miami again
illustrate how important a fast start is in the National
Football League because it's not just about the points you
put on the board. It's how you really tell the opposition.
You got to change your game plan. Yeah, just like
that game against the forty nine ers, the Dolphins were
not able to get their run game going at all. Yes,
(01:39):
I know, two of three for three oun and sixty
five yards. I get all of that. But the fact
was is that from the very beginning they were having
to play from behind, and I just felt like green
Bay how they were able to really manipulate what Miami
wanted to do offensively, mixed in with a couple pivotal
plays early on that sort of just shifted their momentum
into green Bay's favor up. A lot of guys talked
(02:01):
about it after the San Francisco game, they felt like
that was a complete performance. I thought, by and large,
this was a complete performance. A lot of stuff you
can still improve upon, things you can correct, But I
think over these last three games, really, these three games
since they last saw the Detroit Lions, you've seen the
green Bay Packers start to round into form.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, this game quite frankly, you talk about momentum shifts,
there was a big one very early on because Packers
got the ball first. But went three and out missed
Jordan Love missed a deep throat to Jaden Reid when
he was open. Packers had to punt, but those cold
swirling wins. In the late evening at lambeau Field, messed
(02:41):
with Miami's putt returner Washington there he ends up muffing
the punt. Robert Rochelle recovers. It's a first in goal
situation from the nine yard line, and the Packers went
from three and out to three plays and in the
end zone and they were up seven to nothing. A
big play by the special teams, and.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
As we were talking about with Rich Pasaccia on Monday night,
the Packers being able to start that game the longest
kick return of the season by Keishawn Nixon blocked up
very well. Looks like they're going to have that explosive
start they want. Offensively, did not have the series they
were looking for. Josh Jacobs even said it when I
was asking him in the locker room afterwards. He felt
like that was the only run, even though he only
(03:17):
had forty three rushing yards, he felt like that was
the only run he wanted back. He just wasn't happy
with how he cut back. Packers end up having to
punt despite having phenomenal field position. But then Robert Rochelle
makes it right and as we learned about afterwards, dealing
with a lot of stuff on the personal side, had
found out earlier on Thanksgiving morning that unfortunately two of
his childhood friends had been killed down in Louisiana. Played
(03:39):
through it, played with a purpose, and came up with
a huge moment there. Also want to say too, I
mean for green Bay Special Teams. I mean, we were
talking about this whole group sort of rounding into form
some really impressive work that the special Teams unit has
done really in every phase and every unit and every
core special teams area, and Green Bay gets the ball back,
(04:01):
they turn it into a Jad and Reed touchdown, and
they were often ronic.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah. From there, the offense I felt, I felt much
like the San Francisco game. The Packers established what they
wanted to on the ground. They set the tone on
the ground with the running game, and it was a
combination of Jacobs and Emmanuel Wilson and Jayden Reed. It's
a nice run on an end around. I think by
the end of the first half, not only had the
(04:25):
Packers topped one hundred yards rushing. They had four different
ball carriers with twenty yards rushing, which just told you
how much the focus was on, Okay, run the football,
try to get Miami's excuse me defense on its heels
a little bit, and then by the end of the
game you look up and it's like, oh, Jordan Love. Yeah,
(04:46):
he also threw for two hundred and seventy five yards
and the offense ended up having a pretty darn efiichent night.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
You have a longer history here with the Packers and
covering games, but I can tell you what this game
felt like. To me. It felt like the twenty fourteen season,
and what I mean by that is that was the
one year where you got prime Eddie Lacy mixed with
a relatively healthy Aaron Rodgers, and you saw what Eddie
Lacey did for Rogers during that season and how he
(05:14):
was really able to compliment everything he was doing in
the passing game. Yes, Josh Jacobs did not go off
for one hundred and fifty rushing yards in this game,
and he had to fight for a lot of the
yards that he did get. But whether it was what
he the short yarded situations that he converted in in
some of the passing game stuff that he did as well.
Those two things I thought were really a catalyst for
what Green Bay did offensively. Green Bay already over two
(05:37):
hundred carries this season with Josh Jacobs, and for a
guy that was brought in and heralded as such a
All Pro rushing champion, a durable back, he's lived up
to the hype here through the first thirteen weeks.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah, you mentioned though, what he did in the passing game.
He ends up with over one hundred yards from scrimmage
in this game. When he takes the checkdown throw in
the fourth cores or makes one of the best open
field moves we've seen all season long ends up getting
forty nine yards there. So between the rushing and the receiving,
Jacobs goes over one hundred. The Packers go three out
(06:11):
of five in the red zone, which I think has
been not only not only the reduction in turnovers. Since
the first Detroit game. The Packers will only turned the
ball over once in their last three games. But after
that Detroit game, the first one, the Packers had gone
one for four in the red zone in that game,
and they had dropped a twenty ninth in the league
(06:33):
in red zone offense. Since then, the Packers have converted
eleven out of fifteen red zone opportunities into touchdown. They
have climbed from twenty ninth in the league in red
zone offense to eighteenth. They've jumped eleven spots in three
weeks because that efficiency has ratcheted up so high. So
that has been a major improvement in where you see
(06:58):
that in the turnovers where this Packers team is very,
very different from the first one that faced the Lions
a month ago.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
One thousand percent. And I just want to mention this
to kind of to go off that as well. So
many times the buzzword with football teams is what's your identity?
And it sometimes gets overblown. Sometimes there's truth to it,
but I think a lot of times it gets overblown.
What I look for in NFL teams is not necessarily
what your identity is, but what are you good at?
(07:25):
And I think what we've seen is the Packers season
has gone on as we've found out, Okay, inside the
red zone, whether it's a guy like Tucker Craft that
can extend plays, get those yards after catch, you know
you can throw it down short ten yards of the
goal line and he's gonna be able to make make
a push for the end zone, or a guy like
Josh Jacobs being able to convert in those those short
area goal to go situations. There's confidence there. You don't
(07:48):
you don't have to reinvent the game of football. You
can play the game the way it's intended. Your guys
can win. I think that has been very encouraging from
the Packer's side of things. In addition to the fact
that you've seen it didn't so much happened in this game,
but you know the explosive plays in the passing game.
You know, Christian Watson did have the forty six yard reception,
and obviously we've seen him go off for some big
(08:09):
plays here the last couple weeks, but it can be
a twenty three yard Jaden reed Cary as well. Yeah,
the multitude of options that Green Bay has offensively at
its fingertips. The best thing that they've done all season long,
whether Jordan Love has been in the lineup or not,
is moving the football. And over these last three games now,
we've seen them start to not only have that type
of production, but be able to carry that through in
(08:30):
the red zone and turn those into touchdowns.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, eleven out of fifteen the last three games has
been pretty impressive and it's why the Packers have been
putting up the point totals that they have. On the
defensive side of the ball. You mentioned it earlier, a
lot of passing yards for Tua Tagabaloa. It became pretty
obvious early on what Jeff Hafley's game plan was here.
The Packers did not have jyr Or Alexander once again,
(08:55):
the team's number one cornerback still not back from the
knee injury. He has come back to practice this week.
We'll see if he's going to be available Thursday night
in Detroit. But without your number one corner Look, you're
not gonna line up Mann de Man against Tyreek Hill
and Jalen Waddle with the Miami Dolphins when your best
cornerback is not available. So, Jeff haffley the game plan
(09:20):
was was try to flood the zones with it. Flooded
the passing lanes with your zone coverage, keep everything in
front of you, rally to the ball and make tackles.
We talked about last week how you can't let these
guys break tackle right because they take the short passes
and turn them into explosive gains, and I thought the
(09:41):
Packers did that. Yes, it got tiring. It got tiring
to see John hu Smith, in particular the tight end
for the Dolphins catching the passes over the middle and
getting eight or twelve or thirteen yard chunks as the
Dolphins were trying to come back from the big deficit.
But the Packers were okay with that because a the
(10:01):
Dolphins were going to burn some clock in order to
try to come back, and then b at the end
of the day, the Miami Dolphins, one of the most
explosive offenses in the league, had one pass completion for
more than sixteen yards. Right, I mean the game plan,
the game plan was exactly that. And then where this
(10:23):
game hinged defensively was when the scores twenty seven to eleven.
Miami drives down and they are at second and goal
in the one yard line. It's early in the fourth quarter,
so a touchdown on a two point conversion there makes
it a one possession game, would make it an eight
point game. But from second and goal on the one
(10:44):
yard line, you get a run stop from Rashaun Gary,
you get a great pass breakup on a difficult play
by Keishawn Nixon on the play action to the right,
throwback to the left to John new Smith, and then
you get the fourth downsack quay Walker with the big
push from TJ. Slayton up the middle, really good coverage
(11:05):
in the end zone by Nixon and Valentine which two
has got nowhere to go with the ball, and Walker
eventually finishes it that goal line stand where the with
a touchdown on a two point conversion, Miami had a
chance to make it a one possession game there in
the fourth quarter. It didn't happen. The Dolphins never really
did get close, and the Packers put it away from there.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
It was the key to the game. Obviously, I focused
my actual story that's called Key the Game on Rochelle
in his fumble recovery early, but I felt like after
that the air completely left the balloon. The Packers were
able to finish that thing. And what I like the
most about that series was, yes, it was it was
Rashan on first down, but then it ended up being
the guys that you want to see making plays. Not
(11:50):
that you don't want to see that with Rashaan, but
it's almost expected with Quay Walker, a guy that has been,
you know, had some ups and downs this season, and
I think everybody from Matt Laflorida to Jeff Hafley and
even I think to some extent Quay himself has talked
about you know, he's playing his best ball right now
and intangible wise, fundamentals wise, just what he brings to
the table. On paper, he is a every down middle
(12:15):
linebacker in this league. He is a mic linebacker with speed.
And I felt like this game, especially with not having
Edger and Cooper, they were going to need to use
a little bit more of his blitzing ability and they
did that, and yeah, b and right next to him,
alongside of him, you have Isaiah McDuffie, who had an
ankle injury that Matt Lefuller talked about. He didn't even
think coming out of that San Francisco game he was
(12:36):
going to be able to make the turn to Miami.
Jeff Hafley then added they weren't even sure if he
was gonna be able to finish the second half against
the forty nine ers. Not only that, McDuffie plays almost
ninety percent of the snaps, has ten tackles, force as
a fumble, a key breakup on a third down pass
that ended up leading to another turnover. On downs, the
Packers came through with the guys that are sort of
(12:56):
seen as I think, the complimentary pieces. And when you
have that, you have a guy like TJ. Slayton getting
some push. That's what gives you the confidence now that
this is a unit to be you know, trifled with. Yeah,
and could potentially help you win some of these games
into the month of December.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah, that sequence at the end of the first half
is worth mentioning here too before we move on, because
the score is twenty one to three. The Packers are
sitting on a pretty good lead, but Miami's got the
ball late in the first half. They cross midfield. They're
looking to get some points and Miami's going to get
the ball coming out at the start of the third quarter,
third down and five, the Dolphins are not yet in
(13:33):
field goal range. They need to get this first down
to get into field goal range. Third down and five,
and you know, a dump off pass over the middle.
McDuffie comes up and makes a big hit. I believe
it was Washington. Washington Milikua the receiver slash returner. Washington
takes that hit from McDuffie can't hang out of the
ball incomplete pass fourth and five, and Tua makes a
(13:55):
bad throw on fourth and five, so it's a turnover.
On downs. The Packers get it back two seconds on
the clock, but the Packers have all three of their timeouts,
use a couple of passes to tuck her craft a
nice run by Chris Brooks get in range using the timeouts. Wisely,
Brandon McManus comes out and drills a field goal at
the end of the first half. So instead of looking
(14:18):
at possibly twenty one to six, if the Dolphins get
a touchdown and then they're getting the ball coming out
to start of the third quarter at twenty one to six,
instead the game is twenty four to three.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
It was.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
It was a clear six point swing, where then it
wasn't as crucial in a sense that Miami was going
to get the ball starting the third quarter because the
Packers had then added to their lead. That sequence there,
which really in my mind, started with the big hit
by McDuffie to break up the third down pass. That
played a big part in how this game unfolded as well.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
And things could have shifted there too. Miami getting the
ball in the second half. I mean being able to,
you know, do the double up. That's something that everyone
under the Shanahan tree mostly wants to always accom Yeah,
and even when it looks like twenty four to three,
well that score changes if it suddenly becomes twenty four
to seventeen. And the Packers didn't allow that to happen.
They actually ended up tacking on some more points. I
thought it was very important too. Matt Lafleur made kind
(15:12):
of a tongue in cheek joke about it at the
podium on Sunday, where he said, yeah, I mean, I mean,
you know, you got to save those timeouts right in
the first half. I mean so many times I think
there's people out there that just think, okay, well the
second half. You got to save them as long as
you can the first half, if you need to take
a few here and there. No, you saw in this game,
the value of being able to keep all three of
those timeouts twenty two seconds gets a lot longer if
(15:34):
you can stop the clock three times, and certainly.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
And you can use the whole field. Absolutely, when you
can use the whole field, because you make the defense
defend the whole field, not just oh we can defend
the sideline, tackle them in bounds. The clock is going
to run, They're not gonna be able to guess in
kicking range. Right, So that was that was definitely a
key sequence in this game. We do have to move on, though,
to talk about this game coming up Thursday night in Detroit,
(15:57):
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Subs fifty plus years of better. All right, well, it's
another Thursday game. It's another Thursday night game. This one
will be at Ford Field in Detroit, the nine and
three Packers visiting the eleven and one Detroit Lions. The
Lions a close shave on Thanksgiving, completely dominate the first
(16:37):
half against the Chicago Bears, and then they are hanging
on for dear life to not let the game go
to overtime. And the Bears end up batching the whole
final sequence, they get their coach fired and all that.
The bottom line is, the Detroit Lions are eleven and one.
The Packers are two games back at nine to three.
(16:59):
And let's be real here, Wes, if the Packers are
going to have any chance, any realistic chance of winning
the NFC North, they have to win this game on
Thursday night. If the Packers go to Detroit and lose
by all means not all is lost, but it becomes
wildcard or bust at that point. So if the Packers
(17:19):
are going to threaten the Lions for the NFC North title,
and the Vikings for that matter, it's on the line
Thursday night at Ford Field.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I saw this tweet, but when I give their proper credit,
I believe was Zach Cruz was the one that tweeted this.
The Packers, even if they beat the Lions and the Vikings,
I still think there's like a thirty six percent chance
of them winning the division. So losing either of those
games obviously would diminish that potential. Yeah, that's with the
New York Times playoff generator. All that being said, the
(17:50):
Detroit Lions, I thought, what Larry's point was in three
things might have been the most salient thing any of
us have said all season, where so many people, myself included,
We're watching that game against the Bears being like, all right,
come on, Chicago, let's pull this thing out. And Larry said,
He's like, no, if there's going to be a wake
up call, it should be against the Packers. And I
(18:10):
think there's a lot to be said for that. The
Packers momentum and how they've built since that loss to
the Lions has been really critical to how this season
has played out. And as Xavier McKinney said, he actually
sent a text message to some of his teammates after
the bye saying, hey, let's just win the rest of
these things. And he left that game as disappointing as
it was, as slow as a start as Green Bay
(18:31):
had against the Lions. He didn't feel like they were
all class. He didn't leave that game feeling like, hey,
we can't play with these guys. The Packers had a
menagerie of errors and penalties and setbacks that they just
could not overcome in that game. Yea, and now suddenly
everything's back there for you. Nine wins. I think there's
a ninety six percent chance right now green Bay making
(18:52):
the playoffs with five games to go on the regular season.
But you gotta go one game at a time, and
there is no bigger game than going back into Ford
Field just over a year after they played and defeated
and upset the Detroit Lions on their home field and
going back and trying to do it once again.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Well, the Packers are a very different team from the
first meeting, not only in the ways that we've been
talking about offensively, defensively, the way they're playing, certainly, the
way the running game is playing, the reduction in turnovers,
the red zone efficiency, what the run defense for Green
Bay is doing as of late, Christian McCaffrey, Devon h Chan,
(19:28):
Raheem Mostert, the running backs the Packers have faced the
last couple of weeks have not been able to do
anything on the ground. The Packers are also different from
a health standpoint compared to the first game against Detroit.
Jordan Love is certainly healthier he was coming. He had
just had the groin injury the week before in Jacksonville
when and basically didn't really practice all week long leading
(19:50):
up to the first Detroit game. He was healthy enough
to play, but obviously was not himself. Jordan Love is
in a very different place. Josh Myers, Williams, JayR Alexander
all missed the first Detroit game. That was the only
game this season the Packers have not had their main
starting five for the offensive line, where they had to
(20:12):
move Elton Jenkins to center and all that, so hopefully
the continuity is there for that group. Evan Williams has
since returned to the lineup from his hamstring injury that
forced him to miss the first Detroit game, and as
I said before, Alexander is back at practice this week
trying to work his way back from the knee injury.
We'll see it, We'll see if he's available. So health wise,
(20:35):
I think the Packers are a very different team than
the first time against Detroit. On the Lions side, the
Lions are banged up on defense. This is a very
different looking defense than the one the Packers faced a
month ago because now Hal Hutchinson was already out. But
they have had a number of injuries since then. Linebackers
who have gone on injured reserve and now some defensive
linemen who seem iffy for the game. As to whether
(20:57):
or not they're going to be able to play offensively.
The Lions are healthy, and this is the unit that
the Lions are relying on. This is the unit that
for Detroit they're looking at. These are the guys who
are gonna take them to the promised Land. I mean,
you know, Jared Goff, the two running backs, Saint Brown, Laporta,
(21:18):
all those guys. It feels like it's going to be
a very different matchup in a lot of ways than
a month ago. But the one thing that isn't different
is Detroit's offense.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Do you know, Mike, how many players the Detroit Lions
now have on injured reserve after they made some moves
this week.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
I don't, but I'm guessing it's probably upwards of thirteen.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Eighteen got eighteen. I mean, they lost several guys at
the beginning of the season two even before the year,
they've been beat up. And as much as people talk
about Aiden Hutchinson, and you should, He's was potentially the
NFL defensive player of the Year at the time in
which he got injured. Yep. But Alex Azeloni, I say
it probably every time you and I do the show,
I think is the most underrated guy potentially in the
(21:59):
National Football League, but certainly when it comes to defensive
and lineback and play, this guy what he's turned himself into.
He is the heartbeat of that defense. He is the
guy that is the rallying cry for that team. And
to not have him available right now I think has
been a big hit for them. They've made some move.
Sadarius Smith obviously is now in Detroit. He has two
sacks and three games. They are moving him everywhere once again,
(22:22):
much like the Packers once did. If we know anything
about Sadarius when it comes to him coming out of
the gate, starting with a new team, a fresh start,
he always plays really well. He did it in Green Bay,
he did at Minnesota, and he certainly did it in Cleveland.
So seeing him the kind of the enthusiasm and the
energy that he's injected too that defense, you can feel it.
But the fact of the matter is is they still
are a hurting unit and there are a lot of
(22:43):
players in that secondary that I've had to kind of
fight through some things as well. They still have their
one two punch Kirby Joseph Brian Branch probably two as
good as they get in the National Football League, especially
with the versatility of Branch to pretty much move him
anywhere you want. He is an incredible chess piece. Offensively,
You're right, they are healthy. Taylor Decker does have some
questions though at left tackle. We'll see how this week
(23:06):
works out for him.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
That's right. Dan Skipper has started a couple of games
at left tackle, including the Thanksgiving game against the Chicago Bears.
Skipper was in there in place of Decker.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And Skipper's kind of like the Evan Smith of that line,
like he's the guy that just always seems to be
in there if there's an injury that creeps up and
has been sort of a dependable letteran for them as well.
But the big difference for the Lions compared to that
first game is Jamison Williams is available. He's not suspended,
he's back. He's making huge plays for them. The contrast
of his explosive style with just the consistency of Amen
(23:37):
Ross Saint Brown, that is a very difficult thing to
deal with. Sam Laporta has battled some injuries. We'll see
exactly where he's at physically and how he performs in
this game. But with a one to two punch in
the backfield like gibbson Montgomery and potentially both of those
guys going over a thousand yards this season at said
last time. And Ben Johnson is going to be a
head coach in the National Football League this year, this
(23:59):
will be his last year. Is the offensive coordinator of
the Lions. You cannot see it any other way. He's
going to be the most highly coveted coach in the
National Football League in twenty twenty five. But in the
here and now, man, this is about as explosive and
as consistent as an offense as there is in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean, Jared Goff is still completing seventy
two percent of his passes on the season. His season
passer rating is in the triple digits, over one hundred.
I added up what running backs David Montgomery and Jamier
Gibbs have done. This is crazy west three hundred and
twenty nine carries, one thousand, six hundred and ninety three yards,
(24:32):
and twenty one rushing touchdowns in twelve games. Yep, I mean,
those those are tremendous numbers for a one to two
running back punch for an entire season. And those guys
have done that three twenty nine, sixteen, ninety three, and
twenty one in twelve games. It is it's remarkable the
(24:53):
offensive machine that the Lions have become. Now here's the
interesting thing, though, Like they looked like they were just
on their way to a complete and total demolition of
the Chicago Bears on Thanksgiving with that early game. But
in the second half, Chicago Bears defense started to stand tall.
(25:15):
The Bears got their offense going and they made a
game of it, and the Lions really the Lions never
put the game away with that offense, as much as
it was humming in the first half, they did have
some red zone struggles. They were kicking too many field goals,
so they didn't put the Bears away there. But then
they also couldn't put them away in the second half
because they couldn't get a big time drive going when
(25:36):
they really needed one. So it's interesting how this is
has unfolded because because while a lot of people are
saying the Lions might be the best team in football,
and at eleven and one, they certainly looked better as
a one loss team than the Kansas City Chiefs have.
So I certainly understand that argument, and I take nothing
(25:56):
away from them. But this isn't a team that played
perfect football, No and so, and the Packers are going
in there knowing, hey, Green Bay walked. They they walked
out of that tunnel at Ford Field last year on
Thanksgiving for that eleven thirty am Central time kickoff and
took it to the first place team when not a
lot of people gave him a chance, and and it was.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
It was.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
It was a win that ended up shaping a lot
of how the the end of the season unfolded for
the Packers. If you're Green Bay man, you're looking at
you're looking at trying to do exactly the same thing
on Thursday night.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
You and again, I don't know if you're probably gonna
spin this off into the keys of victory. So I
don't want to give away too much, but you have
to play with physicality against Lions. There aren't any losses
to really point to in terms of what's the key
to beating them. The one that they did I remember
that was where they afterwards, you know, you kind of
heard Dan Campbell fall on the sword for some of
the coaching decisions that were made in that loss to
(26:52):
Tampa Bay in Week two. But when it's been close
whether it was what Chicago did or Houston or somebody's
that teats, it's when teams played physical. You gotta play
error free football. You can't set yourself back with penalties.
You can't turn it over. They'll make you pay for it.
Possessions are always at a premium with this team, but
you have to play with physicality and I think Green
(27:15):
Bay knows that and they saw that. The other thing
that stands out that's interesting to me is Lions have
outscored teams three eighty three to two oh three, almost
doubling up teams, but they've been outscored in the first
and fourth quarters, fourth quarter. It makes total sense because
you know they're playing with leads teams.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Don't, and they've had some games with massive leads, absolutely
huge leads.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
But a lot of their damage is done in those
second and third quarters. Forty eight points in the first
quarter to one seventy four in the second, the third
quarter one oh six. I mean they are looking to
double you up at the end of the half. They
are looking to really take it to you and take
games away from you. Jacksonville added a lot to that.
(27:54):
Some of these games have added a lot to those numbers.
But that being said, this is a very dangerous football
team if you do not counter their punches. And I
think the Green Bay Packers with that first matchup at
Lambeufield understand exactly what the type of opponent that they're
facing and what you have to do to take them down.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah, they've basically averaged two touchdowns per game in the
second quarter, and they get their offense rolling the points
that they end up putting up before halftime is pretty impressive,
I would say. If there is if you look at
the three the three games this year that Detroit has
looked the most vulnerable, the loss to Tampa Bay back
(28:30):
in Week two, the very close loss where they had
to come from behind against Houston, and then last week
against the Bears. If there's a common thread to those,
it's the opposing defense rising up in the red zone
and making the Lions kick field goals instead of getting touchdowns.
Because when the Lions get touchdowns, they end up with
forty plus on the board. But you make them kick
(28:51):
field goals, you can keep the point total in the
twenties and that gives you a chance. That gives your
offense a chance, especially right now with their defenses banged
up as it is, it gives your offense a chance
to score enough to be able to win. Let's go
right into keys to victory and a lot of them
we've already talked about for me, and again I don't
(29:13):
I'm not taking anything away from the Lions, but looking
strictly at what the Packers have been doing, you have
to just keep doing what you're doing. You have to
keep the turnovers to a minimum, you have to keep
the red zone efficiency up, you have to keep the
miscues to a minimum. You know, talking about the drop passes,
the penalties which I think are down on the defensive
(29:35):
side of the ball for those I mean the fans
are frustrated with the jumping off sides, the lining up
off sides and stuff like that. Don't think the Packers
aren't frustrated with it as well. Just take a look
at what Matt Lafleur said at the podium with regard
to that, Take a look at what Jeff Hafley said
at the podium with regard to the off sides. The
Packers just they they haven't figured out how to stop it,
(29:57):
stop that happening yet, but there is definitely frustration mounting
in that it can't continue. The Packers know they can't
do that two, three, four times against the Detroit Lions
on Thursday night and expect to win. You're just giving away.
You're giving away too much. So all of those things.
If the penalties start to come down in the same
(30:19):
way that the drop passes have been reduced, the turnos
have been reduced, and the red zone efficiency has gone up.
If the penalties come down along with that, the Packers
will give themselves a chance to win this game.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
There is no team in the National Football League, at
least from I haven't run the whole like sybermetrics numbers
or anything like that, but when you look at situational
football on both offense and defense, Detroit is the cream
of the crop. Offensively, you look at it fourth in
third down conversions, sixth in red zone, third and goal
(30:51):
to go. You look at the defensive side of things
for them, first in third down defense, second in red zone,
third in goal to go, beat you inside the twenty.
That's how they win. So what do you have to
do well? First and foremost, you cannot be in third
and long against this team. Kirby Joseph is just salivating
on the back end, wanting you to throw that football
in those instances. Jordan Love somewhat saw that last, you know,
(31:14):
on this last encounter with them. Yep, you see him.
When you get put in adverse situations. If you can't
run against their front, if you can't cut those yards
in half on first down, the Detroit Lions are going
to feast. Conversely, the first thing that the Brad Holmes
Dan Campbell philosophy since the very beginning, the thing that
they instilled even when they were a third three win team,
(31:36):
was we are going to run the football. They did
it with Jamal Williams. Jamal Williams set the single season
touchdown record and then they let him go. I mean,
this is the way that these guys are wired. Yeah,
they want to run the football. They want to have
that contrast between Montgomery and Gibbs. Personally, I favor Gibbs.
I've watched Montgomery for a lot of years. Very talented guy,
very violent running back, Difficult to bring him to the ground.
(31:59):
Jam gives is a home run hitter. Jamior Gibbs is
going to play a long time in the National Football League,
And I feel like if you can take away the
explosive gains there you have a chance. What happened in
that first game was they kept them. And Jeff Hafley
talked about this, There's so many times where the Packers
will keep you to a one yard game, a negative
two yard rush, zero yards, and then they will spin
(32:20):
one off for sixteen. Green Bay has to keep that
stuff in check because if you do that, Jared Goff's
going to be right where he wants to be.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Yeah. Montgomery is the running back who wears you out.
Gibbs as the running back who scares you. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Because of that, he's the one that knocks you out.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah. The home run, the home run hitting ability that
he has. Well, I already sort of started with in
the transition to talking about the Lions with where things
are the NFC North implications of this game, it's pretty
clear for green Bay. In between green Bay and Detroit,
of course, you still have the Minnesota Vikings. They are
(32:57):
at ten and two. They survived a a very close
call against the Arizona Cardinals. I'll just say they got
a little bit of help from the officials in that one,
a little but but hey, we move on.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
But hey, Sam Darnold got his face mask in the
end zone grabbed at some point.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yeah, that's true, very true.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
They had no chance to when that came out.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
But it's it's funny, Wes. If you if you had
told me, if you had told me at the beginning
of the season that the Packers would be nine and
three going to Detroit for this big Thursday night game,
but they'd be sitting in third place and two games
back in the division. It's it. Before the season started,
(33:38):
it would have been hard to picture like that actually
being reality. But here we are. The Lions have eleven wins,
the Vikings have ten, the Packers have nine. The whole
country is going to be watching. The whole country is
going to be watching this one. And uh, it's it's
one of the Uh, it's one of the first really
really big down the street games in the NFL. Here,
(34:01):
Oh for sure.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I mean, if you want to get pumped up for
this game. I ended up basically writing a story on it.
On Monday, Dan Campbell's presser where he's talking about this
race that's beginning in the NFC North, and you know,
so many guys are like Matt Lafleora's reaction to figuring
finding out that the Vikings won. Dan Campbell almost seemed
to be embracing it. He's like, hey, won great, you know,
like the guy is just wired differently. He is embracing
(34:25):
that grind and if it means pushing his team to
being sixteen and one to win the North, he's fine
with it. That's what it ends up having to be, right.
But all that being said, I did that story this
week looking at the NFC North. I found this absolutely
fascinating because people want to kind of dog on the
Bears a little bit. Yeah, they've gone through a lot,
but the Bears have won four games. At one point,
(34:45):
we're four and two. The thirty four wins that the
NFC North has a mass through thirteen weeks is already
the third most of the division, tied for the third
most that the division has won going back to two
thousand and two. I mean, in twenty eight they've won
thirty six games, but that was partially bullied by the
fact that the Packers won fifteen of their own. The
(35:06):
competition there and the way that all three of these
teams are performing, and the fact that they have six
losses amongst the Lions, Vikings and Packers, and three of
those were divvied out amongst themselves. I mean, it just
shows you that the standard and the way that in
all three of these teams have done it differently. Minnesota
was the team that I had in the cellar of
the division this year, right after JJ McCarthy got hurt.
(35:27):
I'm like, this team's got no chance, and Kevin O'Connell
does is doing what Kevin O'Connell does and making this
thing work. Detroit has been the team, the juggernaut everybody
expects of the being. Green Bay has taken that next
step through the first three to thirteen weeks. Just I
know it's a different week, so I don't want to
get too far ahead of myself, but there's a pivotal
game at US Banks Stadium this weekend between the Atlanta Falcons,
(35:50):
who now they're having questions should Michael Pennock should he
be the quarterback? They're six and six, but still right
in the thick of this thing for a wide open
NFC South.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Right when Kirk Cousins is coming back to Minneapolis, right,
I mean, it's it's it's it's funny how these how
these things unfold, the and the timing of them.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
And I give the Vikings brass a lot of credit. Man,
they made a difficult decision to move on from Kirk Cousins,
But the fact of the matter was they had to
do better. What they did, they gave it a good shot,
it didn't work. What's the next step? Who's the next quarterback?
You get Sam Darnold on a one year deal for
ten million dollars and he plays half the season like
an MVP. These are the type of kind of gut
(36:30):
wrenching moves that you occasionally have to make. The Packers
had to make one of their own with Aaron Jones. So,
uh yeah, I mean this is this is a very
interesting week for the whole NFL and and certainly the
Packers kick it off against the Lions and if you
could find a way to win this thing again and
make it two for two at Ford Field, and suddenly
the Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings find themselves one
(36:51):
game behind the Lions with four games left to play.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yeah, absolutely, that's the that's the scenario the Packers are
hoping for, and we will see what unfolds. Before we go,
I have to let you know the countdown to the
twenty twenty five NFL Draft has begun. Green Bay is
hosting this year and you won't want to miss it.
Mark your calendars for April twenty four through April twenty
six of twenty twenty five, and visit green Bay dot
(37:15):
com slash Draft twenty five for more information. With that,
we'll call it a rap on this edition of Packers Unscripted.
Be sure to follow all of our coverage of the
team and of Thursday nights big game from Ford Field
and Detroit. Wes and I will be there. We will
have it all for you on Packers dot Com, and
we'll be back on our regular two shows per week
(37:38):
schedule with Packers Unscripted beginning next week. So thank you
for tuning in, everybody, and we will see you next time.
Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from
Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spaffer, joined as always
by my trusted colleague Weston Hodkoitz. We're coming to you
here from our studios at lambeau Field and Wes. We
got another sort of double duty show here to do
because we have another Thursday night game coming up. We
(00:38):
haven't yet reviewed the Packers last game.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
So what is today?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yeah? What day of the week is it? Right now?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Actually day?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
But we're going to start with the Packers Thanksgiving Night
victory thirty to seventeen over the Miami Dolphins was the
final score. And I mean Packers did what they needed
to do, getting two home wins in five days to
get themselves to nine and three, And this one they
(01:06):
went about it a little bit differently, But what was
similar to the San Francisco game is the Packers jumped
out on top, built themselves a big lead, and then
kind of rode that to the finish line and walked
out a lambo with another w.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
These two games, Mike, between San Francisco and Miami again
illustrate how important a fast start is in the National
Football League because it's not just about the points you
put on the board. It's how you really tell the opposition.
You got to change your game plan. Yeah, just like
that game against the forty nine ers, the Dolphins were
not able to get their run game going at all. Yes,
(01:39):
I know, two of three for three oun and sixty
five yards. I get all of that. But the fact
was is that from the very beginning they were having
to play from behind, and I just felt like green
Bay how they were able to really manipulate what Miami
wanted to do offensively, mixed in with a couple pivotal
plays early on that sort of just shifted their momentum
into green Bay's favor up. A lot of guys talked
(02:01):
about it after the San Francisco game, they felt like
that was a complete performance. I thought, by and large,
this was a complete performance. A lot of stuff you
can still improve upon, things you can correct, But I
think over these last three games, really, these three games
since they last saw the Detroit Lions, you've seen the
green Bay Packers start to round into form.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, this game quite frankly, you talk about momentum shifts,
there was a big one very early on because Packers
got the ball first. But went three and out missed
Jordan Love missed a deep throat to Jaden Reid when
he was open. Packers had to punt, but those cold
swirling wins. In the late evening at lambeau Field, messed
(02:41):
with Miami's putt returner Washington there he ends up muffing
the punt. Robert Rochelle recovers. It's a first in goal
situation from the nine yard line, and the Packers went
from three and out to three plays and in the
end zone and they were up seven to nothing. A
big play by the special teams, and.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
As we were talking about with Rich Pasaccia on Monday night,
the Packers being able to start that game the longest
kick return of the season by Keishawn Nixon blocked up
very well. Looks like they're going to have that explosive
start they want. Offensively, did not have the series they
were looking for. Josh Jacobs even said it when I
was asking him in the locker room afterwards. He felt
like that was the only run, even though he only
(03:17):
had forty three rushing yards, he felt like that was
the only run he wanted back. He just wasn't happy
with how he cut back. Packers end up having to
punt despite having phenomenal field position. But then Robert Rochelle
makes it right and as we learned about afterwards, dealing
with a lot of stuff on the personal side, had
found out earlier on Thanksgiving morning that unfortunately two of
his childhood friends had been killed down in Louisiana. Played
(03:39):
through it, played with a purpose, and came up with
a huge moment there. Also want to say too, I
mean for green Bay Special Teams. I mean, we were
talking about this whole group sort of rounding into form
some really impressive work that the special Teams unit has
done really in every phase and every unit and every
core special teams area, and Green Bay gets the ball back,
(04:01):
they turn it into a Jad and Reed touchdown, and
they were often ronic.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah. From there, the offense I felt, I felt much
like the San Francisco game. The Packers established what they
wanted to on the ground. They set the tone on
the ground with the running game, and it was a
combination of Jacobs and Emmanuel Wilson and Jayden Reed. It's
a nice run on an end around. I think by
the end of the first half, not only had the
(04:25):
Packers topped one hundred yards rushing. They had four different
ball carriers with twenty yards rushing, which just told you
how much the focus was on, Okay, run the football,
try to get Miami's excuse me defense on its heels
a little bit, and then by the end of the
game you look up and it's like, oh, Jordan Love. Yeah,
(04:46):
he also threw for two hundred and seventy five yards
and the offense ended up having a pretty darn efiichent night.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
You have a longer history here with the Packers and
covering games, but I can tell you what this game
felt like. To me. It felt like the twenty fourteen season,
and what I mean by that is that was the
one year where you got prime Eddie Lacy mixed with
a relatively healthy Aaron Rodgers, and you saw what Eddie
Lacey did for Rogers during that season and how he
(05:14):
was really able to compliment everything he was doing in
the passing game. Yes, Josh Jacobs did not go off
for one hundred and fifty rushing yards in this game,
and he had to fight for a lot of the
yards that he did get. But whether it was what
he the short yarded situations that he converted in in
some of the passing game stuff that he did as well.
Those two things I thought were really a catalyst for
what Green Bay did offensively. Green Bay already over two
(05:37):
hundred carries this season with Josh Jacobs, and for a
guy that was brought in and heralded as such a
All Pro rushing champion, a durable back, he's lived up
to the hype here through the first thirteen weeks.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah, you mentioned though, what he did in the passing game.
He ends up with over one hundred yards from scrimmage
in this game. When he takes the checkdown throw in
the fourth cores or makes one of the best open
field moves we've seen all season long ends up getting
forty nine yards there. So between the rushing and the receiving,
Jacobs goes over one hundred. The Packers go three out
(06:11):
of five in the red zone, which I think has
been not only not only the reduction in turnovers. Since
the first Detroit game. The Packers will only turned the
ball over once in their last three games. But after
that Detroit game, the first one, the Packers had gone
one for four in the red zone in that game,
and they had dropped a twenty ninth in the league
(06:33):
in red zone offense. Since then, the Packers have converted
eleven out of fifteen red zone opportunities into touchdown. They
have climbed from twenty ninth in the league in red
zone offense to eighteenth. They've jumped eleven spots in three
weeks because that efficiency has ratcheted up so high. So
that has been a major improvement in where you see
(06:58):
that in the turnovers where this Packers team is very,
very different from the first one that faced the Lions
a month ago.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
One thousand percent. And I just want to mention this
to kind of to go off that as well. So
many times the buzzword with football teams is what's your identity?
And it sometimes gets overblown. Sometimes there's truth to it,
but I think a lot of times it gets overblown.
What I look for in NFL teams is not necessarily
what your identity is, but what are you good at?
(07:25):
And I think what we've seen is the Packers season
has gone on as we've found out, Okay, inside the
red zone, whether it's a guy like Tucker Craft that
can extend plays, get those yards after catch, you know
you can throw it down short ten yards of the
goal line and he's gonna be able to make make
a push for the end zone, or a guy like
Josh Jacobs being able to convert in those those short
area goal to go situations. There's confidence there. You don't
(07:48):
you don't have to reinvent the game of football. You
can play the game the way it's intended. Your guys
can win. I think that has been very encouraging from
the Packer's side of things. In addition to the fact
that you've seen it didn't so much happened in this game,
but you know the explosive plays in the passing game.
You know, Christian Watson did have the forty six yard reception,
and obviously we've seen him go off for some big
(08:09):
plays here the last couple weeks, but it can be
a twenty three yard Jaden reed Cary as well. Yeah,
the multitude of options that Green Bay has offensively at
its fingertips. The best thing that they've done all season long,
whether Jordan Love has been in the lineup or not,
is moving the football. And over these last three games now,
we've seen them start to not only have that type
of production, but be able to carry that through in
(08:30):
the red zone and turn those into touchdowns.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, eleven out of fifteen the last three games has
been pretty impressive and it's why the Packers have been
putting up the point totals that they have. On the
defensive side of the ball. You mentioned it earlier, a
lot of passing yards for Tua Tagabaloa. It became pretty
obvious early on what Jeff Hafley's game plan was here.
The Packers did not have jyr Or Alexander once again,
(08:55):
the team's number one cornerback still not back from the
knee injury. He has come back to practice this week.
We'll see if he's going to be available Thursday night
in Detroit. But without your number one corner Look, you're
not gonna line up Mann de Man against Tyreek Hill
and Jalen Waddle with the Miami Dolphins when your best
cornerback is not available. So, Jeff haffley the game plan
(09:20):
was was try to flood the zones with it. Flooded
the passing lanes with your zone coverage, keep everything in
front of you, rally to the ball and make tackles.
We talked about last week how you can't let these
guys break tackle right because they take the short passes
and turn them into explosive gains, and I thought the
(09:41):
Packers did that. Yes, it got tiring. It got tiring
to see John hu Smith, in particular the tight end
for the Dolphins catching the passes over the middle and
getting eight or twelve or thirteen yard chunks as the
Dolphins were trying to come back from the big deficit.
But the Packers were okay with that because a the
(10:01):
Dolphins were going to burn some clock in order to
try to come back, and then b at the end
of the day, the Miami Dolphins, one of the most
explosive offenses in the league, had one pass completion for
more than sixteen yards. Right, I mean the game plan,
the game plan was exactly that. And then where this
(10:23):
game hinged defensively was when the scores twenty seven to eleven.
Miami drives down and they are at second and goal
in the one yard line. It's early in the fourth quarter,
so a touchdown on a two point conversion there makes
it a one possession game, would make it an eight
point game. But from second and goal on the one
(10:44):
yard line, you get a run stop from Rashaun Gary,
you get a great pass breakup on a difficult play
by Keishawn Nixon on the play action to the right,
throwback to the left to John new Smith, and then
you get the fourth downsack quay Walker with the big
push from TJ. Slayton up the middle, really good coverage
(11:05):
in the end zone by Nixon and Valentine which two
has got nowhere to go with the ball, and Walker
eventually finishes it that goal line stand where the with
a touchdown on a two point conversion, Miami had a
chance to make it a one possession game there in
the fourth quarter. It didn't happen. The Dolphins never really
did get close, and the Packers put it away from there.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
It was the key to the game. Obviously, I focused
my actual story that's called Key the Game on Rochelle
in his fumble recovery early, but I felt like after
that the air completely left the balloon. The Packers were
able to finish that thing. And what I like the
most about that series was, yes, it was it was
Rashan on first down, but then it ended up being
the guys that you want to see making plays. Not
(11:50):
that you don't want to see that with Rashaan, but
it's almost expected with Quay Walker, a guy that has been,
you know, had some ups and downs this season, and
I think everybody from Matt Laflorida to Jeff Hafley and
even I think to some extent Quay himself has talked
about you know, he's playing his best ball right now
and intangible wise, fundamentals wise, just what he brings to
the table. On paper, he is a every down middle
(12:15):
linebacker in this league. He is a mic linebacker with speed.
And I felt like this game, especially with not having
Edger and Cooper, they were going to need to use
a little bit more of his blitzing ability and they
did that, and yeah, b and right next to him,
alongside of him, you have Isaiah McDuffie, who had an
ankle injury that Matt Lefuller talked about. He didn't even
think coming out of that San Francisco game he was
(12:36):
going to be able to make the turn to Miami.
Jeff Hafley then added they weren't even sure if he
was gonna be able to finish the second half against
the forty nine ers. Not only that, McDuffie plays almost
ninety percent of the snaps, has ten tackles, force as
a fumble, a key breakup on a third down pass
that ended up leading to another turnover. On downs, the
Packers came through with the guys that are sort of
(12:56):
seen as I think, the complimentary pieces. And when you
have that, you have a guy like TJ. Slayton getting
some push. That's what gives you the confidence now that
this is a unit to be you know, trifled with. Yeah,
and could potentially help you win some of these games
into the month of December.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah, that sequence at the end of the first half
is worth mentioning here too before we move on, because
the score is twenty one to three. The Packers are
sitting on a pretty good lead, but Miami's got the
ball late in the first half. They cross midfield. They're
looking to get some points and Miami's going to get
the ball coming out at the start of the third quarter,
third down and five, the Dolphins are not yet in
(13:33):
field goal range. They need to get this first down
to get into field goal range. Third down and five,
and you know, a dump off pass over the middle.
McDuffie comes up and makes a big hit. I believe
it was Washington. Washington Milikua the receiver slash returner. Washington
takes that hit from McDuffie can't hang out of the
ball incomplete pass fourth and five, and Tua makes a
(13:55):
bad throw on fourth and five, so it's a turnover.
On downs. The Packers get it back two seconds on
the clock, but the Packers have all three of their timeouts,
use a couple of passes to tuck her craft a
nice run by Chris Brooks get in range using the timeouts. Wisely,
Brandon McManus comes out and drills a field goal at
the end of the first half. So instead of looking
(14:18):
at possibly twenty one to six, if the Dolphins get
a touchdown and then they're getting the ball coming out
to start of the third quarter at twenty one to six,
instead the game is twenty four to three.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
It was.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
It was a clear six point swing, where then it
wasn't as crucial in a sense that Miami was going
to get the ball starting the third quarter because the
Packers had then added to their lead. That sequence there,
which really in my mind, started with the big hit
by McDuffie to break up the third down pass. That
played a big part in how this game unfolded as well.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
And things could have shifted there too. Miami getting the
ball in the second half. I mean being able to,
you know, do the double up. That's something that everyone
under the Shanahan tree mostly wants to always accom Yeah,
and even when it looks like twenty four to three,
well that score changes if it suddenly becomes twenty four
to seventeen. And the Packers didn't allow that to happen.
They actually ended up tacking on some more points. I
thought it was very important too. Matt Lafleur made kind
(15:12):
of a tongue in cheek joke about it at the
podium on Sunday, where he said, yeah, I mean, I mean,
you know, you got to save those timeouts right in
the first half. I mean so many times I think
there's people out there that just think, okay, well the
second half. You got to save them as long as
you can the first half, if you need to take
a few here and there. No, you saw in this game,
the value of being able to keep all three of
those timeouts twenty two seconds gets a lot longer if
(15:34):
you can stop the clock three times, and certainly.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
And you can use the whole field. Absolutely, when you
can use the whole field, because you make the defense
defend the whole field, not just oh we can defend
the sideline, tackle them in bounds. The clock is going
to run, They're not gonna be able to guess in
kicking range. Right, So that was that was definitely a
key sequence in this game. We do have to move on, though,
to talk about this game coming up Thursday night in Detroit,
(15:57):
and we will do that right after this sponsored a
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Subs fifty plus years of better. All right, well, it's
another Thursday game. It's another Thursday night game. This one
will be at Ford Field in Detroit, the nine and
three Packers visiting the eleven and one Detroit Lions. The
Lions a close shave on Thanksgiving, completely dominate the first
(16:37):
half against the Chicago Bears, and then they are hanging
on for dear life to not let the game go
to overtime. And the Bears end up batching the whole
final sequence, they get their coach fired and all that.
The bottom line is, the Detroit Lions are eleven and one.
The Packers are two games back at nine to three.
(16:59):
And let's be real here, Wes, if the Packers are
going to have any chance, any realistic chance of winning
the NFC North, they have to win this game on
Thursday night. If the Packers go to Detroit and lose
by all means not all is lost, but it becomes
wildcard or bust at that point. So if the Packers
(17:19):
are going to threaten the Lions for the NFC North title,
and the Vikings for that matter, it's on the line
Thursday night at Ford Field.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I saw this tweet, but when I give their proper credit,
I believe was Zach Cruz was the one that tweeted this.
The Packers, even if they beat the Lions and the Vikings,
I still think there's like a thirty six percent chance
of them winning the division. So losing either of those
games obviously would diminish that potential. Yeah, that's with the
New York Times playoff generator. All that being said, the
(17:50):
Detroit Lions, I thought, what Larry's point was in three
things might have been the most salient thing any of
us have said all season, where so many people, myself included,
We're watching that game against the Bears being like, all right,
come on, Chicago, let's pull this thing out. And Larry said,
He's like, no, if there's going to be a wake
up call, it should be against the Packers. And I
(18:10):
think there's a lot to be said for that. The
Packers momentum and how they've built since that loss to
the Lions has been really critical to how this season
has played out. And as Xavier McKinney said, he actually
sent a text message to some of his teammates after
the bye saying, hey, let's just win the rest of
these things. And he left that game as disappointing as
it was, as slow as a start as Green Bay
(18:31):
had against the Lions. He didn't feel like they were
all class. He didn't leave that game feeling like, hey,
we can't play with these guys. The Packers had a
menagerie of errors and penalties and setbacks that they just
could not overcome in that game. Yea, and now suddenly
everything's back there for you. Nine wins. I think there's
a ninety six percent chance right now green Bay making
(18:52):
the playoffs with five games to go on the regular season.
But you gotta go one game at a time, and
there is no bigger game than going back into Ford
Field just over a year after they played and defeated
and upset the Detroit Lions on their home field and
going back and trying to do it once again.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Well, the Packers are a very different team from the
first meeting, not only in the ways that we've been
talking about offensively, defensively, the way they're playing, certainly, the
way the running game is playing, the reduction in turnovers,
the red zone efficiency, what the run defense for Green
Bay is doing as of late, Christian McCaffrey, Devon h Chan,
(19:28):
Raheem Mostert, the running backs the Packers have faced the
last couple of weeks have not been able to do
anything on the ground. The Packers are also different from
a health standpoint compared to the first game against Detroit.
Jordan Love is certainly healthier he was coming. He had
just had the groin injury the week before in Jacksonville
when and basically didn't really practice all week long leading
(19:50):
up to the first Detroit game. He was healthy enough
to play, but obviously was not himself. Jordan Love is
in a very different place. Josh Myers, Williams, JayR Alexander
all missed the first Detroit game. That was the only
game this season the Packers have not had their main
starting five for the offensive line, where they had to
(20:12):
move Elton Jenkins to center and all that, so hopefully
the continuity is there for that group. Evan Williams has
since returned to the lineup from his hamstring injury that
forced him to miss the first Detroit game, and as
I said before, Alexander is back at practice this week
trying to work his way back from the knee injury.
We'll see it, We'll see if he's available. So health wise,
(20:35):
I think the Packers are a very different team than
the first time against Detroit. On the Lions side, the
Lions are banged up on defense. This is a very
different looking defense than the one the Packers faced a
month ago because now Hal Hutchinson was already out. But
they have had a number of injuries since then. Linebackers
who have gone on injured reserve and now some defensive
linemen who seem iffy for the game. As to whether
(20:57):
or not they're going to be able to play offensively.
The Lions are healthy, and this is the unit that
the Lions are relying on. This is the unit that
for Detroit they're looking at. These are the guys who
are gonna take them to the promised Land. I mean,
you know, Jared Goff, the two running backs, Saint Brown, Laporta,
(21:18):
all those guys. It feels like it's going to be
a very different matchup in a lot of ways than
a month ago. But the one thing that isn't different
is Detroit's offense.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Do you know, Mike, how many players the Detroit Lions
now have on injured reserve after they made some moves
this week.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
I don't, but I'm guessing it's probably upwards of thirteen.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Eighteen got eighteen. I mean, they lost several guys at
the beginning of the season two even before the year,
they've been beat up. And as much as people talk
about Aiden Hutchinson, and you should, He's was potentially the
NFL defensive player of the Year at the time in
which he got injured. Yep. But Alex Azeloni, I say
it probably every time you and I do the show,
I think is the most underrated guy potentially in the
(21:59):
National Football League, but certainly when it comes to defensive
and lineback and play, this guy what he's turned himself into.
He is the heartbeat of that defense. He is the
guy that is the rallying cry for that team. And
to not have him available right now I think has
been a big hit for them. They've made some move.
Sadarius Smith obviously is now in Detroit. He has two
sacks and three games. They are moving him everywhere once again,
(22:22):
much like the Packers once did. If we know anything
about Sadarius when it comes to him coming out of
the gate, starting with a new team, a fresh start,
he always plays really well. He did it in Green Bay,
he did at Minnesota, and he certainly did it in Cleveland.
So seeing him the kind of the enthusiasm and the
energy that he's injected too that defense, you can feel it.
But the fact of the matter is is they still
are a hurting unit and there are a lot of
(22:43):
players in that secondary that I've had to kind of
fight through some things as well. They still have their
one two punch Kirby Joseph Brian Branch probably two as
good as they get in the National Football League, especially
with the versatility of Branch to pretty much move him
anywhere you want. He is an incredible chess piece. Offensively,
You're right, they are healthy. Taylor Decker does have some
questions though at left tackle. We'll see how this week
(23:06):
works out for him.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
That's right. Dan Skipper has started a couple of games
at left tackle, including the Thanksgiving game against the Chicago Bears.
Skipper was in there in place of Decker.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And Skipper's kind of like the Evan Smith of that line,
like he's the guy that just always seems to be
in there if there's an injury that creeps up and
has been sort of a dependable letteran for them as well.
But the big difference for the Lions compared to that
first game is Jamison Williams is available. He's not suspended,
he's back. He's making huge plays for them. The contrast
of his explosive style with just the consistency of Amen
(23:37):
Ross Saint Brown, that is a very difficult thing to
deal with. Sam Laporta has battled some injuries. We'll see
exactly where he's at physically and how he performs in
this game. But with a one to two punch in
the backfield like gibbson Montgomery and potentially both of those
guys going over a thousand yards this season at said
last time. And Ben Johnson is going to be a
head coach in the National Football League this year, this
(23:59):
will be his last year. Is the offensive coordinator of
the Lions. You cannot see it any other way. He's
going to be the most highly coveted coach in the
National Football League in twenty twenty five. But in the
here and now, man, this is about as explosive and
as consistent as an offense as there is in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean, Jared Goff is still completing seventy
two percent of his passes on the season. His season
passer rating is in the triple digits, over one hundred.
I added up what running backs David Montgomery and Jamier
Gibbs have done. This is crazy west three hundred and
twenty nine carries, one thousand, six hundred and ninety three yards,
(24:32):
and twenty one rushing touchdowns in twelve games. Yep, I mean,
those those are tremendous numbers for a one to two
running back punch for an entire season. And those guys
have done that three twenty nine, sixteen, ninety three, and
twenty one in twelve games. It is it's remarkable the
(24:53):
offensive machine that the Lions have become. Now here's the
interesting thing, though, Like they looked like they were just
on their way to a complete and total demolition of
the Chicago Bears on Thanksgiving with that early game. But
in the second half, Chicago Bears defense started to stand tall.
(25:15):
The Bears got their offense going and they made a
game of it, and the Lions really the Lions never
put the game away with that offense, as much as
it was humming in the first half, they did have
some red zone struggles. They were kicking too many field goals,
so they didn't put the Bears away there. But then
they also couldn't put them away in the second half
because they couldn't get a big time drive going when
(25:36):
they really needed one. So it's interesting how this is
has unfolded because because while a lot of people are
saying the Lions might be the best team in football,
and at eleven and one, they certainly looked better as
a one loss team than the Kansas City Chiefs have.
So I certainly understand that argument, and I take nothing
(25:56):
away from them. But this isn't a team that played
perfect football, No and so, and the Packers are going
in there knowing, hey, Green Bay walked. They they walked
out of that tunnel at Ford Field last year on
Thanksgiving for that eleven thirty am Central time kickoff and
took it to the first place team when not a
lot of people gave him a chance, and and it was.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
It was.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
It was a win that ended up shaping a lot
of how the the end of the season unfolded for
the Packers. If you're Green Bay man, you're looking at
you're looking at trying to do exactly the same thing
on Thursday night.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
You and again, I don't know if you're probably gonna
spin this off into the keys of victory. So I
don't want to give away too much, but you have
to play with physicality against Lions. There aren't any losses
to really point to in terms of what's the key
to beating them. The one that they did I remember
that was where they afterwards, you know, you kind of
heard Dan Campbell fall on the sword for some of
the coaching decisions that were made in that loss to
(26:52):
Tampa Bay in Week two. But when it's been close
whether it was what Chicago did or Houston or somebody's
that teats, it's when teams played physical. You gotta play
error free football. You can't set yourself back with penalties.
You can't turn it over. They'll make you pay for it.
Possessions are always at a premium with this team, but
you have to play with physicality and I think Green
(27:15):
Bay knows that and they saw that. The other thing
that stands out that's interesting to me is Lions have
outscored teams three eighty three to two oh three, almost
doubling up teams, but they've been outscored in the first
and fourth quarters, fourth quarter. It makes total sense because
you know they're playing with leads teams.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Don't, and they've had some games with massive leads, absolutely
huge leads.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
But a lot of their damage is done in those
second and third quarters. Forty eight points in the first
quarter to one seventy four in the second, the third
quarter one oh six. I mean they are looking to
double you up at the end of the half. They
are looking to really take it to you and take
games away from you. Jacksonville added a lot to that.
(27:54):
Some of these games have added a lot to those numbers.
But that being said, this is a very dangerous football
team if you do not counter their punches. And I
think the Green Bay Packers with that first matchup at
Lambeufield understand exactly what the type of opponent that they're
facing and what you have to do to take them down.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah, they've basically averaged two touchdowns per game in the
second quarter, and they get their offense rolling the points
that they end up putting up before halftime is pretty impressive,
I would say. If there is if you look at
the three the three games this year that Detroit has
looked the most vulnerable, the loss to Tampa Bay back
(28:30):
in Week two, the very close loss where they had
to come from behind against Houston, and then last week
against the Bears. If there's a common thread to those,
it's the opposing defense rising up in the red zone
and making the Lions kick field goals instead of getting touchdowns.
Because when the Lions get touchdowns, they end up with
forty plus on the board. But you make them kick
(28:51):
field goals, you can keep the point total in the
twenties and that gives you a chance. That gives your
offense a chance, especially right now with their defenses banged
up as it is, it gives your offense a chance
to score enough to be able to win. Let's go
right into keys to victory and a lot of them
we've already talked about for me, and again I don't
(29:13):
I'm not taking anything away from the Lions, but looking
strictly at what the Packers have been doing, you have
to just keep doing what you're doing. You have to
keep the turnovers to a minimum, you have to keep
the red zone efficiency up, you have to keep the
miscues to a minimum. You know, talking about the drop passes,
the penalties which I think are down on the defensive
(29:35):
side of the ball for those I mean the fans
are frustrated with the jumping off sides, the lining up
off sides and stuff like that. Don't think the Packers
aren't frustrated with it as well. Just take a look
at what Matt Lafleur said at the podium with regard
to that, Take a look at what Jeff Hafley said
at the podium with regard to the off sides. The
Packers just they they haven't figured out how to stop it,
(29:57):
stop that happening yet, but there is definitely frustration mounting
in that it can't continue. The Packers know they can't
do that two, three, four times against the Detroit Lions
on Thursday night and expect to win. You're just giving away.
You're giving away too much. So all of those things.
If the penalties start to come down in the same
(30:19):
way that the drop passes have been reduced, the turnos
have been reduced, and the red zone efficiency has gone up.
If the penalties come down along with that, the Packers
will give themselves a chance to win this game.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
There is no team in the National Football League, at
least from I haven't run the whole like sybermetrics numbers
or anything like that, but when you look at situational
football on both offense and defense, Detroit is the cream
of the crop. Offensively, you look at it fourth in
third down conversions, sixth in red zone, third and goal
(30:51):
to go. You look at the defensive side of things
for them, first in third down defense, second in red zone,
third in goal to go, beat you inside the twenty.
That's how they win. So what do you have to
do well? First and foremost, you cannot be in third
and long against this team. Kirby Joseph is just salivating
on the back end, wanting you to throw that football
in those instances. Jordan Love somewhat saw that last, you know,
(31:14):
on this last encounter with them. Yep, you see him.
When you get put in adverse situations. If you can't
run against their front, if you can't cut those yards
in half on first down, the Detroit Lions are going
to feast. Conversely, the first thing that the Brad Holmes
Dan Campbell philosophy since the very beginning, the thing that
they instilled even when they were a third three win team,
(31:36):
was we are going to run the football. They did
it with Jamal Williams. Jamal Williams set the single season
touchdown record and then they let him go. I mean,
this is the way that these guys are wired. Yeah,
they want to run the football. They want to have
that contrast between Montgomery and Gibbs. Personally, I favor Gibbs.
I've watched Montgomery for a lot of years. Very talented guy,
very violent running back, Difficult to bring him to the ground.
(31:59):
Jam gives is a home run hitter. Jamior Gibbs is
going to play a long time in the National Football League,
And I feel like if you can take away the
explosive gains there you have a chance. What happened in
that first game was they kept them. And Jeff Hafley
talked about this, There's so many times where the Packers
will keep you to a one yard game, a negative
two yard rush, zero yards, and then they will spin
(32:20):
one off for sixteen. Green Bay has to keep that
stuff in check because if you do that, Jared Goff's
going to be right where he wants to be.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Yeah. Montgomery is the running back who wears you out.
Gibbs as the running back who scares you. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Because of that, he's the one that knocks you out.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah. The home run, the home run hitting ability that
he has. Well, I already sort of started with in
the transition to talking about the Lions with where things
are the NFC North implications of this game, it's pretty
clear for green Bay. In between green Bay and Detroit,
of course, you still have the Minnesota Vikings. They are
(32:57):
at ten and two. They survived a a very close
call against the Arizona Cardinals. I'll just say they got
a little bit of help from the officials in that one,
a little but but hey, we move on.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
But hey, Sam Darnold got his face mask in the
end zone grabbed at some point.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yeah, that's true, very true.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
They had no chance to when that came out.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
But it's it's funny, Wes. If you if you had
told me, if you had told me at the beginning
of the season that the Packers would be nine and
three going to Detroit for this big Thursday night game,
but they'd be sitting in third place and two games
back in the division. It's it. Before the season started,
(33:38):
it would have been hard to picture like that actually
being reality. But here we are. The Lions have eleven wins,
the Vikings have ten, the Packers have nine. The whole
country is going to be watching. The whole country is
going to be watching this one. And uh, it's it's
one of the Uh, it's one of the first really
really big down the street games in the NFL. Here,
(34:01):
Oh for sure.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I mean, if you want to get pumped up for
this game. I ended up basically writing a story on it.
On Monday, Dan Campbell's presser where he's talking about this
race that's beginning in the NFC North, and you know,
so many guys are like Matt Lafleora's reaction to figuring
finding out that the Vikings won. Dan Campbell almost seemed
to be embracing it. He's like, hey, won great, you know,
like the guy is just wired differently. He is embracing
(34:25):
that grind and if it means pushing his team to
being sixteen and one to win the North, he's fine
with it. That's what it ends up having to be, right.
But all that being said, I did that story this
week looking at the NFC North. I found this absolutely
fascinating because people want to kind of dog on the
Bears a little bit. Yeah, they've gone through a lot,
but the Bears have won four games. At one point,
(34:45):
we're four and two. The thirty four wins that the
NFC North has a mass through thirteen weeks is already
the third most of the division, tied for the third
most that the division has won going back to two
thousand and two. I mean, in twenty eight they've won
thirty six games, but that was partially bullied by the
fact that the Packers won fifteen of their own. The
(35:06):
competition there and the way that all three of these
teams are performing, and the fact that they have six
losses amongst the Lions, Vikings and Packers, and three of
those were divvied out amongst themselves. I mean, it just
shows you that the standard and the way that in
all three of these teams have done it differently. Minnesota
was the team that I had in the cellar of
the division this year, right after JJ McCarthy got hurt.
(35:27):
I'm like, this team's got no chance, and Kevin O'Connell
does is doing what Kevin O'Connell does and making this
thing work. Detroit has been the team, the juggernaut everybody
expects of the being. Green Bay has taken that next
step through the first three to thirteen weeks. Just I
know it's a different week, so I don't want to
get too far ahead of myself, but there's a pivotal
game at US Banks Stadium this weekend between the Atlanta Falcons,
(35:50):
who now they're having questions should Michael Pennock should he
be the quarterback? They're six and six, but still right
in the thick of this thing for a wide open
NFC South.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Right when Kirk Cousins is coming back to Minneapolis, right,
I mean, it's it's it's it's funny how these how
these things unfold, the and the timing of them.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
And I give the Vikings brass a lot of credit. Man,
they made a difficult decision to move on from Kirk Cousins,
But the fact of the matter was they had to
do better. What they did, they gave it a good shot,
it didn't work. What's the next step? Who's the next quarterback?
You get Sam Darnold on a one year deal for
ten million dollars and he plays half the season like
an MVP. These are the type of kind of gut
(36:30):
wrenching moves that you occasionally have to make. The Packers
had to make one of their own with Aaron Jones. So,
uh yeah, I mean this is this is a very
interesting week for the whole NFL and and certainly the
Packers kick it off against the Lions and if you
could find a way to win this thing again and
make it two for two at Ford Field, and suddenly
the Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings find themselves one
(36:51):
game behind the Lions with four games left to play.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yeah, absolutely, that's the that's the scenario the Packers are
hoping for, and we will see what unfolds. Before we go,
I have to let you know the countdown to the
twenty twenty five NFL Draft has begun. Green Bay is
hosting this year and you won't want to miss it.
Mark your calendars for April twenty four through April twenty
six of twenty twenty five, and visit green Bay dot
(37:15):
com slash Draft twenty five for more information. With that,
we'll call it a rap on this edition of Packers Unscripted.
Be sure to follow all of our coverage of the
team and of Thursday nights big game from Ford Field
and Detroit. Wes and I will be there. We will
have it all for you on Packers dot Com, and
we'll be back on our regular two shows per week
(37:38):
schedule with Packers Unscripted beginning next week. So thank you
for tuning in, everybody, and we will see you next time.
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