December 5, 2023 • 39 mins
The leader of the first Seahawks team to reach the Super Bowl, former head coach Mike Holmgren sits down to share stories from throughout his decorated career in part one of his conversation with Jim Zorn and Steve Raible. Today’s show: Coach Holmgren’s early coaching days (03:30), bringing Jim Zorn onto Seattle’s coaching staff (06:42), teaching Hasselbeck how to slide (10:18), Mike Holmgren’s Redzone offense (17:11), working with Brett Favre (19:54), early days with Matt Hasselbeck in Seattle (28:45), and the roles of family in football (32:00).
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You were listening to Seahawks Stories taking you behind the
scenes with your favorite Seahawks.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Set back to Bey and Zorn, who's back to pass
as time looks for the left sideline, throws a bomb
down there, He's got a man in front. He makes
the grab a travel It's a thirty down of the twenty.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
They'll never get him.
Speaker 4 (00:15):
He scores touched down.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Seahawks powered by Seahawks dot Com.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
And Zorn laid it in perfectly a rabel who goes
in to score on an eighty yard pass and run play.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
Now, here's your host, the voice of the Seahawks, Steve
Raeball and Seahawks legend Jim Zorn.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
We have had a lot of guests on this show
with z Man and myself, and when they play that
recording of Pete Grosse calling that play, I get nervous
because I'm sitting next to Mike. Mike Holmgan's our guest say,
because I'm thinking.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
Now, what is he thinking? Is he thinking?
Speaker 6 (00:52):
Wow?
Speaker 5 (00:53):
How did that happen?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Was that an accident of some kind that you were
able to make that kids and go all the way?
Speaker 6 (00:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (00:58):
I did the corner fall down? No, you know, you
know listen. When I we've known each other for a
long time, the three of us, and when I heard
the stories about you two together playing, it always puts
a smile on my face. You know, you get and
now you're you've remained friends so long and now you're
doing this. So no, it's all good.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Really is good, And I just want to apologize for you,
Steve and your voice.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
It does sound awesome, doesn't it.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
By the way, I know that people were thinking, is
that really Steve Rabel?
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah, no, it's Al Martino, the great singer of songs
from back in the fifties.
Speaker 6 (01:37):
Yeah, you do. Sound does sound pretty good. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Well, I've been fighting a cold out there, folks, so
forgive me for not sounding like me. I'll have it
back to that screechy, scratchy touchdown Seahawks, and I hope
a lot of times by the time we get to
the weekend, but we're not here to.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
Talk about today. We're here to talk about yesteryear.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Does it seem like, Mike it's been, however many years
since you've been on the side sidelines here for the Seahawks.
Speaker 7 (02:03):
It does at times and other times I'm it's gone fast,
you know, I there are some things certainly I miss
and I get asked that question on occasion, and the players,
the staff, the coaches, some announcers, but but I miss
(02:24):
I missed that and then but it was time. It
was time for me, and now I'm off doing other things.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
I would say this, Mike could do it because he
has a system that he uh he perfected. I'm sure
he adjusted here and here, here and there, and maybe
even came back to some things. But he could organize
staff and put together a season I think, with no sweat,
just because I've been around him for all those years,
(02:54):
and you know, the idea is to build. And I
remember starting with the Seahawk staff with Mike at the helm,
and even though we ended up not going to the
playoffs my first year, I could tell immediately that it
was an organized staff and we were building for some
(03:17):
future date to have a really good football team. And
it was it was planned, and he planned it.
Speaker 5 (03:24):
Where did all that come from? Did it come directly
from you?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Did it come from the people you learned from most
specifically Bill Walsh.
Speaker 6 (03:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (03:30):
When I came into the league as an assistant coach
five years removed from high school, my high school job,
and I went to forty nine ers, so I mean,
go figure.
Speaker 6 (03:41):
But the.
Speaker 7 (03:44):
If nothing else, Steve, I think I was a good
student of the game, and so coach Walsh. I was
fortunate enough to be around him. And he was a
unique guy. I mean how he did, how he organized things.
You know, I was kind of the whipping boy for
a while there because he coached quarterbacks and that was
(04:06):
his thing. And here I am his quarterback coach. And
the story one quick story in the evening at all,
we'd get around in training camp and get around the
table nine o'clock. It's our nine o'clock meeting, prepare for
the next day. And all that he'd come in. He'd
have a little glass of wine there. All the rest
of us had cups of water. And so we're there
(04:27):
and he goes around the room and he would in
practice he'd write down corrections on cards and little you know,
and so then he'd come into that meeting that night
and need to start going, okay, Sherm Lewis, and he'd
have a card I want you to do this boom,
this happened today, and you know it was a correction.
And so we go on the staff and then he
get to me, and he'd whip out a few cards,
(04:50):
more than a few, and then he put them away
and they go, okay, you guys, get things ready, and
he'd leave. Well, I none unknownst to me. Our special
teams coach von Oppen was keeping track of cards. Who
got the most cards and he goes in second place.
Norb Hecker has ten cards. In first place. Mike Congrian
(05:14):
has two hundred and forty two cards. So I learned
from Bill. But the one thing I want to say
is the staff. Putting together a staff allows you to
be good. I mean, we had we had a great
I've always had great staffs. And I wanted teachers. I
wanted guys who could you know, it doesn't matter how
(05:35):
much I know or Jim knows. He has to be
able to tell Matt Hasselbeck. He has to convey that
and get Matt to do be his best. And I
had guys like that. I had teachers, and I was
very lucky that way.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
I remember the first one of the first times we talked,
and we talked about coaching, and he said, you said
the same thing that hey, I was just a few
years removed from high school teaching, and he said, that's
what you said.
Speaker 5 (05:57):
That's what I thought I was going to do.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I was going to teach history.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Instead you ended up teaching guys how to play football
and how to be great pros, and teaching your coaches
how to teach those guys how to be great pros.
How much difference was there in how you go about
that and what that expectation was that you're going to
get in return.
Speaker 7 (06:17):
I don't think it was out different, to be honest,
I always said, you know, I coached in high school
and taught in high school, and when we got when
I got to the pro level, I said, I'm not
doing I thought about this a lot. I'm not preparing
them any differently than I did those kids. It's just
that they're big. They're big little kids instead of high
(06:37):
school kids. And so that was the approach. And uh,
and then again, I remember when Jim came in and
interviewed for the job and got on the board and
started doing stuff, and he's very cerebral, you know. But
then I said, okay. But then I knew his background
and what a good player he was and what a
good person he is, and that's the type of coach
(06:59):
I wanted on my staff, and so I listen, Matt
Hasselbeck became became a really a fine quarterback, and a
lot of that has to do with Jim's teaching. And
I tried to do the same thing with my staff
and my coach and my.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Players Mike, and Mike let me coach, He let me,
you know, in fact, he gave me four or five
qbs to look at and said, which one of these
guys do you like? And it was obvious that Matt
was the guy that I like the best, and I'm
sure Mike did as well, and he backed up Brett Favre.
And we'll ask we'll ask Matt some of these stories
(07:36):
if we ever can.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Get him on.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
But Matt came from Green Bay, and he thought he
was a little Brett Farv And I kept saying, you
have to play with just a little more discipline. Oh,
you're making me feel so confined. I was going, yes, yes,
in fact, that confinement. When you're in that a little
(07:59):
more discipline, you're playing great. So we need you to
be more consistent. And you know, working for Mike, he
really allowed me to do my job. And I will
tell you there was really only one time that in
all the time that I had spent seven years with Mike. Really,
one time he came and took over my drill and
(08:21):
I was so mad at practice because it was the
right drill. I mean, I was doing the right thing,
but I was taken so long. I could have done
a seminar on this thing. And it was I don't
know if he ever remembers it. It was pitching the ball,
and I wanted our quarterbacks to be exact because when
a running back tries to receive a pitch or a toss,
(08:43):
a lot of times quarterbacks are reaching down and they
pitch and they pitch up into their face, right. Well,
I wanted a level pitch. I wanted the ball to
come at that front, that front shoulder, but down to
where you would hand the ball off to him. And
Mike comes in, he takes over my drill.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
But what are you doing?
Speaker 4 (09:04):
You're taking to just turn around and he he gives
the example that he wants just turn around and throw
the ball. Pitch the ball, you know what he So
when when he left, I was going, do not listen
to that. Don't listen to that, because I'm doing it.
And then uh, you know, they started mocking me my
(09:24):
quarterbacks because they were you know, I got Matt Hasselback,
Trent doll for brock Heward, Seneca Wallace, and they're throwing
the ball all over the place. Now I think this
is the way Mike wants to do it.
Speaker 7 (09:34):
They and of course they being the Wiseacres, they were
very smart guys, very smart guys. So if any chance
that they got to nail me or to nail gym,
they took. You know, but you know, I just you know,
I just said, you're teaching a toss. In my mind,
it's taking an hour. Yeah, it's taking an hour. It's
(09:56):
going to be dark. You know, it's taken too long.
And so I knew he got a little mad at me.
That's okay. But then the time there was also the
time I walked out on the practice field and there
are two giant beach balls, I mean big beach balls,
and quarterbacks are over there.
Speaker 6 (10:12):
I go, okay, now what's he doing? Now? What is
he doing? So very innovative in his drills. Yeah, didn't
you do.
Speaker 5 (10:18):
A slipping slide at one point?
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Oh? Yeah? And I was teaching these guys how to slide.
Speaker 7 (10:23):
His Hasselbeck looked like, you know, they talk about the
goony bird. You know, he comes in for landing and crashes.
That's Passelbeck, and so Jim goes, I'll fix it. I said, okay.
The next time I come out to practice, they got
this elaborate water coming down and sliding and.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
I killed didn't work.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
I kept telling that don't yell out, don't don't kind
of go. You know, he was having the best time
of his life. But the problem that he was having
when he was sliding is he would put his arm
down and it was jarring his shoulder and he started
getting his shoulders sore. You can't put your hand when
you slide, so that's why that's one of the reasons
(11:03):
we brought out the slip and slide. But those balls
were about avoiding the rush, and so I had I
had a method to my madness, but it was sometimes
it was madness.
Speaker 7 (11:13):
They remind me of yours see Indiana Jones and the
temple of doing A giant ball was coming down. Does
remind me of the quarterbacks are avoiding these things. If
they get hit by that ball, we lose them for
the year.
Speaker 6 (11:26):
They're gone.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Were you did you coach your coaches hard? Would you
say and would the assistant coaches say that you coached
them hard.
Speaker 7 (11:37):
I at times. At times it was different.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
You know.
Speaker 7 (11:40):
In Green Bay, which was my first go round, I
think I melted a little bits as I got older.
In Green Bay, I was, yeah, I was I wanted
a certain thing done, and from most of the time
it got done that way. And if every once in
a while the coach wanted to do something a little
(12:01):
different or something, then I'd probably get on him. It
was so I have a million stories about this, but
I remember one way. You remember Tom Levatt, you know
he was a good line coach, great line coach for us. Well,
one day, this is how coaches get set in their ways.
He had he'd we'd stretch, do calstatics, and then the
(12:21):
whistle go and everyone run to their spots. Jim had
go over here. Tom would take his alignment over there. Okay,
he'd had his spot.
Speaker 6 (12:29):
So they do.
Speaker 7 (12:30):
Then he do his drill, same drill he'd done for
forty years, the same drill. And so then one day
the billionaires or somebody came up to me and goes, Mike,
that that area where they're up there, it's rain and
it's muddy, it's it's you're gonna have to move it.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
I go, okay.
Speaker 7 (12:45):
So I tell Tom, I said, move the thing over
about twenty yards. You can't go over there.
Speaker 6 (12:49):
It's muddy.
Speaker 7 (12:50):
So I I uh we finished. I look over there.
He's in there, he's in the mud. He's doing the
same spot. He's in the same spot. I go over
and I say, what are you doing? I want you
to move now. This is where we do it, this
is where we practice. I go, oh really, And of
course I got mad at him. You know, say I
made a move and he's still mad at me about it.
(13:12):
It's like Jim Bean still mad at me about you
know the tallest things you remember tall?
Speaker 6 (13:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (13:18):
So but I yeah. As the head coach, I loved
my coaches. I loved them, but I wanted things done
a certain way, and I asked them to adjust to
my way of thinking. I know I did that, but
you know they did an NFL Films did a thing
(13:39):
at the owner's meetings when you're and they gathered all
the coaches, Mary Ucci, Dick Tarn, all the guys, Mike Sherman,
all the guys that had been with me, and it
was like the Mike Hogan roast. They brought up, all
these Andy Reid, they brought up all these times. Remember
the time they start talking to each other and I'm
in the room. Remember the time he yelled at you
and telling all these stories.
Speaker 6 (14:01):
I go, Hey, I'm in the room.
Speaker 7 (14:02):
I can hear you. So that was kind of funny.
But I hope I wasn't too bad on it.
Speaker 6 (14:08):
Hey.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
I would say that I learned more from Mike in
the seven years I was here than I had learned
from anybody I had. I had been with, and i'd
been with, you know, I think I've been with some
good coaches.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
But Mike, I.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Could see immediately when I came in. He trusted his
coaches to get a lot of things done before he
walked into the room. And Gil Haskell was He was
the consummate offensive coordinator for Mike because he expected he
expected from us. Gil Haskell did that we would have
(14:43):
these things done because when Mike came in, Mike wanted
certain certain things already done. He wanted to ask certain
questions and then get out. And I think it helped
us make sure that we didn't because sometimes stabs, they
they over examine an issue, and Mike would say well,
(15:08):
how many times is he how many times will we
see this? Oh, you'll see it twice. We're not doing that,
you know, because Mike wasn't He wasn't gonna call it anyway,
and so we were very we tried to be efficient
with our time so that when he came in, because
he was very efficient with his time, and we had
(15:28):
to have a lot of things hashed through because and
you'd get those poignant questions. And when I first got there,
I wanted to make sure that that I was thinking
ahead because I wanted the question answered. And but then
I had to think of, Okay, I know he's going
to ask this, and that he was complaining one time
(15:51):
in our meetings because I had developed this pattern that
you really it's really uncoverable. When this Tampa two coverage
came in with the Mike linebacker going deep middle, it's
really a three deep coverage, but everybody calls it Tampa two.
And so I had a route, but I named it float.
I don't know if you remember this. And the very
(16:13):
first thing he looks up on the board, he goes,
why do we have to call it float? Because he
wanted He goes, I want to call when I call
a play. I wanted to feel like it's fast, you know,
so like I want to call it supersonic.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Said no, it's float.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
And I don't know why I called it that, but
you know this one guy was in the middle and
it was he was right there and there was another
guy going over the top and it was really a
great route. He never called it, I believe, until it
was in maybe four games you got float in again.
Didn't you change the name? No, it's float. I wanted
(16:49):
him to recognize it. No, it became a pretty good
third down call for us when we played these Tampa
Tampa two.
Speaker 7 (16:57):
I remember the play. I remember it was a good play,
was a good play. And that's a good example of
how I could be a little unbending at times. It's
too bad. But I have to tell you one story
about Jim and what I did. The red zone was
my thing. I'd install it where Gil or somebody would
install the game plan, the pictures and stuff on Wednesday,
(17:20):
I'd like to install the red zone because I'd tell
the player, you're going to score a touchdown here. I'd
point to a player and I said, you're going to
help them scoring by doing this. But I'll get you
one next time and stuff like that. So but I
alreadys had a thing for it was kind of a
fun thing that I'd give a hundred bucks to any
and we'd go into the red Zone meeting and every
coach had to bring in their five plays from the
(17:43):
or four plays whatever was from the twenty fifteen, ten
to five, and then we'd go around the room and say,
what's your play. I put on the board and then
i'd knock them out. I'd keep some and then we
go into the game that way. And if your play,
if Jim Zorne's play got called in the red zone
and scored on Monday, I give him a hundred bucks.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Okay, And for a coach is the truth. So you're
looking at me.
Speaker 7 (18:05):
For coaches, you'd think, well that's not much, but this was.
This was like the world to them. Sure, okay, all right,
So we get in a game. Jim's got this great play.
We're on the twenty two and it was a play
from the twenty touchdown beautiful. We get Monday and I'm
telling Gary Reynolds, I said, here's how we're going to
do this. I'm gonna tell his word. And I told Jim,
(18:29):
he's waiting for the hundred dollars, and I said, hey,
I'm sorry. This the twenty two is not the red zone.
The red zone starts at the twenty. It was a
great play, but I can't give you the hundred bucks.
So being the competitor is Jim, Well, it is up
in arms. So I say to Gary Reynolds, I said,
here's the commissioner. What do you think. He goes, I
(18:52):
think we should vote the coaches in the room. How
many thinks Jim should get the hundred bucks? Jim raises
his hand.
Speaker 6 (18:58):
How many? You know? All the other coaches.
Speaker 7 (19:02):
I don't remember if I came and gave you the
hundred oh. But we had fun with that, that kind
of stuff, and at the same time, I got the
best from them in those situations. All I had to
do is call them.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
When we led the National Football League in red zone
plays for touchdowns also at some point third downs were
big as well. And I would say it's all about
execution because you had to execute the play. And the
hard part about red zone was you only had one
one practice at it, basically, and there were sixteen plays
(19:40):
because we had four from the twenty four from the fifteen,
ten and five, so every week they were specifically designed
for that particular defense, that particular game. Basically, well, it
was hard.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
We've talked about working with your coaches, working with Jim,
working with Matthew back one step brand new head coach
Green Bay, and at some point this this wild haired
guy comes from Southern Miss, right far. Yeah, I know
you've talked about it a lot, as much has been
made about Brett and going into Hall of Fame and
all that stuff, and well deserved.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
Did that test you at times as a head coach?
Speaker 6 (20:19):
Absolutely it did. Yeah, I mean it was.
Speaker 7 (20:24):
Because I had listened. I had come from Joe Montana,
who was the picture of consistency and just accuracy. And
of course he'd played in the league a while, so
I've got we got far very talented. I conducted his
workout at Southern Miss prior to the draft I was in.
(20:47):
There were eighteen teams there obviously looking at it. And
I remember coming back and writing the report when Ron
Will said should we trade for him? And I said,
I wasn't sure, you know, I said, and I went back,
got my report. I said, he can make, he can
throw like no one I've ever seen. But every ball
is a rocket. You could do it five feet away
and he's going to throw it through you. And then
(21:08):
the other thing, he's unpredictable. And I said, in our offense,
and Jim knows this better than anybody, that one of
the one of the best things a quarterback can do
is let the offense help you, let the progression help you.
And Brett he didn't play the game that way. He'd
throw it under hand, he'd throw it on one lead,
(21:28):
he'd throw it all, he'd throw interceptions.
Speaker 6 (21:30):
He'd he might all those.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
Was that your first year there in Green Bay when
you got him, or or had you been there with
another QB.
Speaker 6 (21:39):
No, that was my first year. Okay, my first year.
Speaker 7 (21:42):
Ron came up to me and said, because we had
I come in and we have two first round picks.
I think it was number four and number nine something
like that, and I said, this is good. Now we
can pick that. You're going to get two really good players.
And Ron came in and said, bless us her. He goes, hey, listen,
I'm looking at Far because Ron had been with the
New York Jets the year before and wanted Far for
(22:05):
the Jets, but Atlanta picked him just before Ron could pick.
So he always kind of wanted him and he and
he goes, think about it, and then so I thought
about it. I said, yeah, I don't know. I really
didn't know. And then he came into the room and
he said, look who we have all those quarterbacks on
this team right now. We had a free agent, we
got a sixth eighth round draft choice. He goes, we
(22:27):
need to get somebody. And and so I was fortunately
I was wise enough to agree with him at some point.
But to your question, Steve, yeah, he was a challenge
and it went on for.
Speaker 6 (22:42):
We.
Speaker 7 (22:43):
We we almost got to the playoffs. My first year
he won six in a row and he made some
miracle things. And then the second year, same thing. And
then I remembered having the conversation with him. I said,
after the season, I said, hey, I like to we
got correct some things and do this and that. And
he goes, Mike, this is how I play the game.
(23:06):
This is just how I play. And I said, okay, okay,
you want to do you want to go to the
super Bowl? Get there some year. He goes, yeah, that's
what we're in it for. I said, okay, we can
get to the playoffs. We can be nine and seven,
we can be ten and six, but we'll never get
there the way you're playing now. I'm asking you to
think about some of these things. And he said okay.
(23:26):
And his credit the third year, he came up and
sat next to me on the plane. And you know, Mike,
that's heat was always open. Probably he was open for
you when you were at Washington. He came up, just
sat down, and normally that you're in trouble if you
sat down and he goes, I go, what do you want?
Speaker 6 (23:44):
And he goes, I get it. I get it.
Speaker 7 (23:49):
And then from that point on he was lights out.
I mean he was really really good and that he
was a pleasure. I had more fun coaching him than
anybody because he was such a wacko, you know, and
he could make me laugh.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, yeah, well he was. He was good.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
And we even on the Seahawks when we when I
had come, we had there was a Brett Fav rule
on one of the patterns, and the Brett Fav rule
was you were never allowed to throw this post outside
the red zone. It had to be the post came
into the into the read if you will when you're
(24:28):
in the red zone, but not, uh, it was it
was shallow. It was a shallow cross. Seventy two x
shallow cross. Do not throw the posts. That's the Brett
fav rule, because Brett would throw this post anywhere when
he felt like he would throw it. Well, we're uh,
we're playing I forgot who we're playing, but we're playing
(24:48):
with Trent Dilferd. He actually I can yeah. I had
the same conversation with Matt almost you got to play
a little more disciplined if we're going to make it
to the championship. And Matt has lost his job to
to Trent. So Trent comes and he throws the post,
and Mike calls seventy two x shallow cross in the
(25:10):
mid midfield. We call it all over the place because
it's a it's a great play, he calls it. Trent
throws the post and Mike is going to just rip
me for this. Trent throws an interception. He throws you know,
we throw the post, and he throws the interception midfield
and I go, what do you you know? I come
off the you know, get on the phone. What are
(25:31):
you doing? Don't you know that Brett favru He goes,
I threw a dime. I go, you threw an interception,
He goes, No, I threw a dime. It was the
best throw I could have I could have ever I
think I've ever made. On that play, I said, Trent,
think about what you're This is right in the middle
of the game. Think about what you're saying. You just
threw a pick a coach, coach, I threw a dime.
(25:53):
That's going, oh great, and I'm going to catch hell
for it, you know, because that was the rule.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
You couldn't throw that. But it was from Brett, probably
irritating you along the way.
Speaker 7 (26:05):
No, he threw the ball well. The defensive back didn't
have much chance to intercept it because he threw the
ball so hard. But you know, because he had to
be a great you know, oh boy, but he he
matured and you know he played. Heck, he played first
he want sixteen years or something.
Speaker 6 (26:24):
But I was part.
Speaker 7 (26:24):
I told Mike Sherman once, who was later the coach
of the Packers, and you're in far a year ten
through and he goes, Mike goes, I had it harder
than you did, because then he wouldn't listen to me.
And I said, okay, let me tell you a couple
of stories. I said, no one had it harder than
me in his first five years of playing. You know,
(26:47):
I don't know, you know, Steve and you and Jim.
I must have played with guys that just were you go,
how are they processed there? This is really different how
they processed stuff.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Yeah, yeah, we've I don't know, in our earliest days,
which I have. You know, it's still kind of a
fog out there of those early times. But it seemed
like we were pretty much a precision kind of game,
because you know, that's what Jerry wanted, and because all
of us.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
Were young guys. We weren't established guys.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
So you know, Sam McCollum and of course Yoda, Steve,
he runs the most precise routes and just finds a
way to get open and the rest of us are
trying to, you know, trying to do the same thing
he does, and we can't do it, and then we
get pissed. Excuse me, we get mad because we can't
figure out why we can't do what Yoda does. But
he was just so skilled that way.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
But I think it's all about you know, what Mike
used to preach, is I want to go from point
A to point B as fast as we can, and
then you make your break. But it had to be
at the right depth because the quarterback in this scheme
is it's all about throwing on rhythm, right. It's rhythm
(27:58):
and timing, you know. And once you developed this idea
of rhythm and the timing of a play, it actually
builds a clock in your brain where you know, as
you try to throw on rhythm and it's not there
or there's clutter, then you can move to the next guy,
the second guy, or the third guy, and you try
(28:19):
to make the third guy look like you're throwing to
the first guy. You know, he was the only guy
I was ever going to throw to. But that's the
precision of it is the route running had to be
at the right depth as fast as you could possibly go,
whether it was twelve yards, seven eighteen yards, and you
had to do it because it made the play work.
(28:41):
It made the play successful potentially.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
I remember, now we'll move jump ahead to the city
your Seahawks times, and now you got Matthew and I
remember you and I. I don't know what the deal was,
but you and I were walking out onto the field
the practice field heading toward the bubble. So it was
later in the season, going back to the enclosed bubble
there at Northwest College where we practiced for so many years,
and we're talking about stuff, and I don't know what
(29:05):
I said. I said something about so, what's you know's
how's Matthew doing? And you stop me and you said,
here's the conversation I had with him, Like the other day,
he said, matt came up to me and said, coch Mike,
we've got to get dems deams May, you're tight end.
We got to get dems. He's got to go faster.
We got to get him to this point. We got
to get that ball out of it. I gotta get
it's got to be faster. And you told me, he said.
(29:26):
I stopped Matthew and I said, you're talking about deams May.
He can't run fast. Just listen to me. We'll get
the ball to the right guy. And sometimes you got
to I guess as a head coach, it's part of
it is just kind of talking guys down off the
ledge and let him know that.
Speaker 5 (29:42):
Hey, it's okay, we'll get you there. I'll get you
what you need.
Speaker 6 (29:45):
No, it absolutely is.
Speaker 7 (29:46):
And with with guys like Matt and Jim can talk
to this as well. He's very bright, I mean, very
very smart, and at times thought he was the smartest
guy in the room.
Speaker 6 (29:58):
We all do, we all have been there.
Speaker 7 (30:00):
Yeah, And to get him to try and listen, I'm
here to help you. I'm here to help you get better.
You know, to the point where we had that flare
up on the sidelines, that that one year where there's
a guy opened right in front of me that he
should have thrown the ball and he didn't on third down,
and oh did I get mad? And I said take
(30:20):
him out, get him out, just going what get him
out of the game. I'm putting senec in and Matt
comes over and goes and I get on him a
little bit and he gets he shoots back of me,
fires back at me. I go, that's it, sitting down,
you're up. And so I'm standing there trying to cool off.
And I'm just standing there and I'm going and the
guy's upstairs, all the coaches going.
Speaker 6 (30:41):
Now.
Speaker 7 (30:41):
Mike said that you got to get back in the gate.
Don't do this series. Yeah, And so he came over
to me, he goes, can I talk to you? I said, yes,
what do you want. He goes, I'm sorry. I shouldn't
have done that. I gaes, okay, you're back in Okay.
So that was in. But then he told the story
to Sarah, and I told a story to Kathy, and Kathy,
(31:04):
you know, you know, Kathy here my wife. She goes,
who's the adult in the room. She goes, you're the adult.
You're gonna apologize to him tomorrow. You're tomorrow you're gonna
go into work and apologize to him. I said, I
don't you know. Ah, And so Matt, before I could
get him, he came into my office and closed the
(31:25):
door and he goes. We both said I'm sorry at
the same time, and so I said okay, okay, and
we both admitted that we were kind of foolish, and
then we both agreed to a ten minute cooling off
period after each series. So he normally he'd come right
over to me and we talk. Then you go talk
(31:46):
to Jim on the phone. I said, you go talk
to Jim first ten minutes, whatever happens, good, bad, whatever,
then you come up and see me. And that worked.
That worked well for us.
Speaker 5 (31:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
The one of the interesting things of that story is
how much And folks outside of football don't know, but
how much of a role the families play, the wives play. Now,
we've known Kathy. I've known Kathy for well as long
as i've known you, so and Joy we've known for
forty five years, almost fifty years now.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
Now I can tell how Joy got that that saying
you're the adult in the room, because I've heard that,
have yet I've heard that telling me Jim, you're the
adult in the room.
Speaker 6 (32:28):
Act like it.
Speaker 5 (32:29):
Well, you know, people don't understand that.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
You know, you bring this game home with you in
many cases, and I don't know how much you'd sur
around and kind of beef about it, but ultimately there
are cooler heads and oftentimes it's those members of our
family that help us kind of Oh wait a minut,
All right, step back.
Speaker 7 (32:47):
Yeah, No, you're right, and I think both Jim and
I would admit that.
Speaker 6 (32:51):
We outkicked our coverage with our lives.
Speaker 5 (32:53):
Well, my hand is up for those of you.
Speaker 7 (32:55):
That and I would say that absolutely about you, but no,
I you know what. And then the other thing was
too And I always had a coach, and in my
case it was guilt because we've gone back to high
coaching high school together and Sherm Lewis was in Green Bay,
the guy that if I ever got over the top,
(33:16):
and he thought I was going past the past the limit,
you have permission to come in and talk to me
about that. You have you alone can come in and
talk to me about it. And that helped me on
occasion that Gil would do it, Sherman Good, close the
door and go Mike, you know the thing and I
and then I made a promise to him that I
(33:38):
wouldn't come back. I mean I would listen and take it.
It didn't happen very often, but it happened once in
a while, and I appreciated that. To your point, Steve,
I think to be able to release some of that
the stuff that's built in. We're competitors. We've been competitors
our whole life.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
And it happens right exactly right. You know you're you're
telling the truth. Tell us you know we're talking about
the quarterback in your conversation with the qbuh and the
qb was one of the guys you spoke with or
during the football game. But as a head coach, you
have to do you have to be involved with more
(34:20):
positions than just the QB. Were there other players that
you remember along the way, especially with the Seahawks that
gave issue to you?
Speaker 7 (34:30):
Yeah, I you know what I I, Yes, there were
and you know what it's uh, the defensive guys. I
would usually talk to them as a group. So in practice,
if I thought it wasn't going because I hired a
good defensive coordinator, they're all working hard, the defensive coaches,
I kind of let them. I kind of stayed away
from them, except on occasion where I thought it was
(34:52):
not going, they weren't going hard or they were you know,
it was not it was sloppy, in which case then
I'd get on the whole group offensively. I yeah, if
a receiver, if I could stop the because you know,
you know, I did a practice, I was away kind
of stepping a waif and then you guys were running
practice and I was watching. And then if I didn't
(35:13):
like something, or you didn't make a correction, or a
receiver coach didn't make a correction, I didn't want that
thing to slide by, so I'd step in. I remember
one time, and you guys, remember Chris Gray, Oh, this
is a great story, and Chris Gray. I still remember
wonderful one of the not only a wonder but a
wonderful person and a very uh you know. He had
(35:34):
Tobec Hutchinson. You have all those guys in there who
were kind of verbal. Walter wasn't, but the other guys were.
And then Chris never said anything nothing. But he was
a good Christian man. He was he was a and
he gave you everything he had. One day, we're running
a play. He pulls stops in the hole and the
running back runs right into him, in the back of him,
(35:55):
and then he kind of trots along I and so
I snapped, and I go, Chris, Oh, I use some
bad language with Chris. And I knew I is you know,
I didn't like to do that very often, but I did.
I use some bad language with him. And he just
stunned him because he that is language you didn't And
I just walked away put And then Tobek came up
(36:17):
to me afterwards and said, you know, I think you
really hurt his feelings.
Speaker 6 (36:23):
I go, and he's.
Speaker 7 (36:24):
Laughing, you know, Tobak's kind of laughing. I said, I
don't care, you know whatever, but I that's another next day,
I had to go up with Chris and say, hey,
I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Man, listen, I can tell you exactly. I didn't hear
the cuss words, but I can tell you, and I
don't think you. I don't think you said anything. I
can tell you exactly what he said. And this is
the best question I've ever heard of coach say. He said,
Chris Gray, is that as fast as you can run?
He said, because and he paused, and Chris was going
(36:55):
back because he was going to be wrong whichever way
he went.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
If that's the fact you can run, we can't run
that play.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
And if that's not the fastest you can run, why
aren't you running faster?
Speaker 1 (37:07):
And oh my gosh.
Speaker 4 (37:08):
That's that's where That's what Chris Gray had to deal
with right there. And Mike was really in his jaw
because he said, because he asked him, is that as
fast as you can run? And Chris was going to be, well,
you know, let me think about that a little bit.
Speaker 6 (37:24):
And then the thing is, but I loved him. He
knew it.
Speaker 7 (37:27):
And I think I told you when I took all
those guys out for dinner, when Hutch went.
Speaker 6 (37:33):
In the Hall of Fame, I couldn't be at the
Hall of Fame. So I took all the lineman.
Speaker 7 (37:36):
Engine Jim and Jim and Matt was there and Max
Strong and Eric Kennedy.
Speaker 6 (37:43):
Those are the guys.
Speaker 7 (37:44):
I took the dinner and Chris came in from where's
he lived now he lives in Alabama, I think Alabama.
They all came and they it turned out to be
a roasting session started by Tobek.
Speaker 6 (37:56):
You go, Chris, Remember.
Speaker 7 (37:57):
When Coach Homeran yelled at you and there when oh yeah,
tell that story and the story is just started coming.
Speaker 6 (38:02):
They started coming. It was a great night.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
It is one of the things that makes this game
great is that those kind of relationships last fifteen to
twenty twenty five years after we played. Same with ze Man. Now,
like we said, forty plus years in counting.
Speaker 5 (38:17):
That's going to do it for this edition.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
But coach has graciously agreed, I think gracious is the
right word.
Speaker 6 (38:23):
Thank you, Thank You're very.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
Welcome, graciously agreed to stay with us for another session
that we will air at a later date. So be
sure you keep an eye on seahawks dot com and
all the rest of those places that I don't know
where you can find this Seahawks' stories and we'll continue
our conversation with head coach and I don't know. I
think I'm at the front of the line along with
(38:45):
Jim leading the way for Hall of Fame member Mike Holmgren.
Speaker 5 (38:48):
But we'll get that done next time. Great having you
with us. We'll see you next time.
You were listening to Seahawks Stories taking you behind the
scenes with your favorite Seahawks.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Set back to Bey and Zorn, who's back to pass
as time looks for the left sideline, throws a bomb
down there, He's got a man in front. He makes
the grab a travel It's a thirty down of the twenty.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
They'll never get him.
Speaker 4 (00:15):
He scores touched down.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Seahawks powered by Seahawks dot Com.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
And Zorn laid it in perfectly a rabel who goes
in to score on an eighty yard pass and run play.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
Now, here's your host, the voice of the Seahawks, Steve
Raeball and Seahawks legend Jim Zorn.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
We have had a lot of guests on this show
with z Man and myself, and when they play that
recording of Pete Grosse calling that play, I get nervous
because I'm sitting next to Mike. Mike Holmgan's our guest say,
because I'm thinking.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
Now, what is he thinking? Is he thinking?
Speaker 6 (00:52):
Wow?
Speaker 5 (00:53):
How did that happen?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Was that an accident of some kind that you were
able to make that kids and go all the way?
Speaker 6 (00:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (00:58):
I did the corner fall down? No, you know, you
know listen. When I we've known each other for a
long time, the three of us, and when I heard
the stories about you two together playing, it always puts
a smile on my face. You know, you get and
now you're you've remained friends so long and now you're
doing this. So no, it's all good.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Really is good, And I just want to apologize for you,
Steve and your voice.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
It does sound awesome, doesn't it.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
By the way, I know that people were thinking, is
that really Steve Rabel?
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah, no, it's Al Martino, the great singer of songs
from back in the fifties.
Speaker 6 (01:37):
Yeah, you do. Sound does sound pretty good. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Well, I've been fighting a cold out there, folks, so
forgive me for not sounding like me. I'll have it
back to that screechy, scratchy touchdown Seahawks, and I hope
a lot of times by the time we get to
the weekend, but we're not here to.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
Talk about today. We're here to talk about yesteryear.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Does it seem like, Mike it's been, however many years
since you've been on the side sidelines here for the Seahawks.
Speaker 7 (02:03):
It does at times and other times I'm it's gone fast,
you know, I there are some things certainly I miss
and I get asked that question on occasion, and the players,
the staff, the coaches, some announcers, but but I miss
(02:24):
I missed that and then but it was time. It
was time for me, and now I'm off doing other things.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
I would say this, Mike could do it because he
has a system that he uh he perfected. I'm sure
he adjusted here and here, here and there, and maybe
even came back to some things. But he could organize
staff and put together a season I think, with no sweat,
just because I've been around him for all those years,
(02:54):
and you know, the idea is to build. And I
remember starting with the Seahawk staff with Mike at the helm,
and even though we ended up not going to the
playoffs my first year, I could tell immediately that it
was an organized staff and we were building for some
(03:17):
future date to have a really good football team. And
it was it was planned, and he planned it.
Speaker 5 (03:24):
Where did all that come from? Did it come directly
from you?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Did it come from the people you learned from most
specifically Bill Walsh.
Speaker 6 (03:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (03:30):
When I came into the league as an assistant coach
five years removed from high school, my high school job,
and I went to forty nine ers, so I mean,
go figure.
Speaker 6 (03:41):
But the.
Speaker 7 (03:44):
If nothing else, Steve, I think I was a good
student of the game, and so coach Walsh. I was
fortunate enough to be around him. And he was a
unique guy. I mean how he did, how he organized things.
You know, I was kind of the whipping boy for
a while there because he coached quarterbacks and that was
(04:06):
his thing. And here I am his quarterback coach. And
the story one quick story in the evening at all,
we'd get around in training camp and get around the
table nine o'clock. It's our nine o'clock meeting, prepare for
the next day. And all that he'd come in. He'd
have a little glass of wine there. All the rest
of us had cups of water. And so we're there
(04:27):
and he goes around the room and he would in
practice he'd write down corrections on cards and little you know,
and so then he'd come into that meeting that night
and need to start going, okay, Sherm Lewis, and he'd
have a card I want you to do this boom,
this happened today, and you know it was a correction.
And so we go on the staff and then he
get to me, and he'd whip out a few cards,
(04:50):
more than a few, and then he put them away
and they go, okay, you guys, get things ready, and
he'd leave. Well, I none unknownst to me. Our special
teams coach von Oppen was keeping track of cards. Who
got the most cards and he goes in second place.
Norb Hecker has ten cards. In first place. Mike Congrian
(05:14):
has two hundred and forty two cards. So I learned
from Bill. But the one thing I want to say
is the staff. Putting together a staff allows you to
be good. I mean, we had we had a great
I've always had great staffs. And I wanted teachers. I
wanted guys who could you know, it doesn't matter how
(05:35):
much I know or Jim knows. He has to be
able to tell Matt Hasselbeck. He has to convey that
and get Matt to do be his best. And I
had guys like that. I had teachers, and I was
very lucky that way.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
I remember the first one of the first times we talked,
and we talked about coaching, and he said, you said
the same thing that hey, I was just a few
years removed from high school teaching, and he said, that's
what you said.
Speaker 5 (05:57):
That's what I thought I was going to do.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I was going to teach history.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Instead you ended up teaching guys how to play football
and how to be great pros, and teaching your coaches
how to teach those guys how to be great pros.
How much difference was there in how you go about
that and what that expectation was that you're going to
get in return.
Speaker 7 (06:17):
I don't think it was out different, to be honest,
I always said, you know, I coached in high school
and taught in high school, and when we got when
I got to the pro level, I said, I'm not
doing I thought about this a lot. I'm not preparing
them any differently than I did those kids. It's just
that they're big. They're big little kids instead of high
(06:37):
school kids. And so that was the approach. And uh,
and then again, I remember when Jim came in and
interviewed for the job and got on the board and
started doing stuff, and he's very cerebral, you know. But
then I said, okay. But then I knew his background
and what a good player he was and what a
good person he is, and that's the type of coach
(06:59):
I wanted on my staff, and so I listen, Matt
Hasselbeck became became a really a fine quarterback, and a
lot of that has to do with Jim's teaching. And
I tried to do the same thing with my staff
and my coach and my.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Players Mike, and Mike let me coach, He let me,
you know, in fact, he gave me four or five
qbs to look at and said, which one of these
guys do you like? And it was obvious that Matt
was the guy that I like the best, and I'm
sure Mike did as well, and he backed up Brett Favre.
And we'll ask we'll ask Matt some of these stories
(07:36):
if we ever can.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Get him on.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
But Matt came from Green Bay, and he thought he
was a little Brett Farv And I kept saying, you
have to play with just a little more discipline. Oh,
you're making me feel so confined. I was going, yes, yes,
in fact, that confinement. When you're in that a little
(07:59):
more discipline, you're playing great. So we need you to
be more consistent. And you know, working for Mike, he
really allowed me to do my job. And I will
tell you there was really only one time that in
all the time that I had spent seven years with Mike. Really,
one time he came and took over my drill and
(08:21):
I was so mad at practice because it was the
right drill. I mean, I was doing the right thing,
but I was taken so long. I could have done
a seminar on this thing. And it was I don't
know if he ever remembers it. It was pitching the ball,
and I wanted our quarterbacks to be exact because when
a running back tries to receive a pitch or a toss,
(08:43):
a lot of times quarterbacks are reaching down and they
pitch and they pitch up into their face, right. Well,
I wanted a level pitch. I wanted the ball to
come at that front, that front shoulder, but down to
where you would hand the ball off to him. And
Mike comes in, he takes over my drill.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
But what are you doing?
Speaker 4 (09:04):
You're taking to just turn around and he he gives
the example that he wants just turn around and throw
the ball. Pitch the ball, you know what he So
when when he left, I was going, do not listen
to that. Don't listen to that, because I'm doing it.
And then uh, you know, they started mocking me my
(09:24):
quarterbacks because they were you know, I got Matt Hasselback,
Trent doll for brock Heward, Seneca Wallace, and they're throwing
the ball all over the place. Now I think this
is the way Mike wants to do it.
Speaker 7 (09:34):
They and of course they being the Wiseacres, they were
very smart guys, very smart guys. So if any chance
that they got to nail me or to nail gym,
they took. You know, but you know, I just you know,
I just said, you're teaching a toss. In my mind,
it's taking an hour. Yeah, it's taking an hour. It's
(09:56):
going to be dark. You know, it's taken too long.
And so I knew he got a little mad at me.
That's okay. But then the time there was also the
time I walked out on the practice field and there
are two giant beach balls, I mean big beach balls,
and quarterbacks are over there.
Speaker 6 (10:12):
I go, okay, now what's he doing? Now? What is
he doing? So very innovative in his drills. Yeah, didn't
you do.
Speaker 5 (10:18):
A slipping slide at one point?
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Oh? Yeah? And I was teaching these guys how to slide.
Speaker 7 (10:23):
His Hasselbeck looked like, you know, they talk about the
goony bird. You know, he comes in for landing and crashes.
That's Passelbeck, and so Jim goes, I'll fix it. I said, okay.
The next time I come out to practice, they got
this elaborate water coming down and sliding and.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
I killed didn't work.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
I kept telling that don't yell out, don't don't kind
of go. You know, he was having the best time
of his life. But the problem that he was having
when he was sliding is he would put his arm
down and it was jarring his shoulder and he started
getting his shoulders sore. You can't put your hand when
you slide, so that's why that's one of the reasons
(11:03):
we brought out the slip and slide. But those balls
were about avoiding the rush, and so I had I
had a method to my madness, but it was sometimes
it was madness.
Speaker 7 (11:13):
They remind me of yours see Indiana Jones and the
temple of doing A giant ball was coming down. Does
remind me of the quarterbacks are avoiding these things. If
they get hit by that ball, we lose them for
the year.
Speaker 6 (11:26):
They're gone.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Were you did you coach your coaches hard? Would you
say and would the assistant coaches say that you coached
them hard.
Speaker 7 (11:37):
I at times. At times it was different.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
You know.
Speaker 7 (11:40):
In Green Bay, which was my first go round, I
think I melted a little bits as I got older.
In Green Bay, I was, yeah, I was I wanted
a certain thing done, and from most of the time
it got done that way. And if every once in
a while the coach wanted to do something a little
(12:01):
different or something, then I'd probably get on him. It
was so I have a million stories about this, but
I remember one way. You remember Tom Levatt, you know
he was a good line coach, great line coach for us. Well,
one day, this is how coaches get set in their ways.
He had he'd we'd stretch, do calstatics, and then the
(12:21):
whistle go and everyone run to their spots. Jim had
go over here. Tom would take his alignment over there. Okay,
he'd had his spot.
Speaker 6 (12:29):
So they do.
Speaker 7 (12:30):
Then he do his drill, same drill he'd done for
forty years, the same drill. And so then one day
the billionaires or somebody came up to me and goes, Mike,
that that area where they're up there, it's rain and
it's muddy, it's it's you're gonna have to move it.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
I go, okay.
Speaker 7 (12:45):
So I tell Tom, I said, move the thing over
about twenty yards. You can't go over there.
Speaker 6 (12:49):
It's muddy.
Speaker 7 (12:50):
So I I uh we finished. I look over there.
He's in there, he's in the mud. He's doing the
same spot. He's in the same spot. I go over
and I say, what are you doing? I want you
to move now. This is where we do it, this
is where we practice. I go, oh really, And of
course I got mad at him. You know, say I
made a move and he's still mad at me about it.
(13:12):
It's like Jim Bean still mad at me about you
know the tallest things you remember tall?
Speaker 6 (13:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (13:18):
So but I yeah. As the head coach, I loved
my coaches. I loved them, but I wanted things done
a certain way, and I asked them to adjust to
my way of thinking. I know I did that, but
you know they did an NFL Films did a thing
(13:39):
at the owner's meetings when you're and they gathered all
the coaches, Mary Ucci, Dick Tarn, all the guys, Mike Sherman,
all the guys that had been with me, and it
was like the Mike Hogan roast. They brought up, all
these Andy Reid, they brought up all these times. Remember
the time they start talking to each other and I'm
in the room. Remember the time he yelled at you
and telling all these stories.
Speaker 6 (14:01):
I go, Hey, I'm in the room.
Speaker 7 (14:02):
I can hear you. So that was kind of funny.
But I hope I wasn't too bad on it.
Speaker 6 (14:08):
Hey.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
I would say that I learned more from Mike in
the seven years I was here than I had learned
from anybody I had. I had been with, and i'd
been with, you know, I think I've been with some
good coaches.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
But Mike, I.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Could see immediately when I came in. He trusted his
coaches to get a lot of things done before he
walked into the room. And Gil Haskell was He was
the consummate offensive coordinator for Mike because he expected he
expected from us. Gil Haskell did that we would have
(14:43):
these things done because when Mike came in, Mike wanted
certain certain things already done. He wanted to ask certain
questions and then get out. And I think it helped
us make sure that we didn't because sometimes stabs, they
they over examine an issue, and Mike would say well,
(15:08):
how many times is he how many times will we
see this? Oh, you'll see it twice. We're not doing that,
you know, because Mike wasn't He wasn't gonna call it anyway,
and so we were very we tried to be efficient
with our time so that when he came in, because
he was very efficient with his time, and we had
(15:28):
to have a lot of things hashed through because and
you'd get those poignant questions. And when I first got there,
I wanted to make sure that that I was thinking
ahead because I wanted the question answered. And but then
I had to think of, Okay, I know he's going
to ask this, and that he was complaining one time
(15:51):
in our meetings because I had developed this pattern that
you really it's really uncoverable. When this Tampa two coverage
came in with the Mike linebacker going deep middle, it's
really a three deep coverage, but everybody calls it Tampa two.
And so I had a route, but I named it float.
I don't know if you remember this. And the very
(16:13):
first thing he looks up on the board, he goes,
why do we have to call it float? Because he
wanted He goes, I want to call when I call
a play. I wanted to feel like it's fast, you know,
so like I want to call it supersonic.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Said no, it's float.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
And I don't know why I called it that, but
you know this one guy was in the middle and
it was he was right there and there was another
guy going over the top and it was really a
great route. He never called it, I believe, until it
was in maybe four games you got float in again.
Didn't you change the name? No, it's float. I wanted
(16:49):
him to recognize it. No, it became a pretty good
third down call for us when we played these Tampa
Tampa two.
Speaker 7 (16:57):
I remember the play. I remember it was a good play,
was a good play. And that's a good example of
how I could be a little unbending at times. It's
too bad. But I have to tell you one story
about Jim and what I did. The red zone was
my thing. I'd install it where Gil or somebody would
install the game plan, the pictures and stuff on Wednesday,
(17:20):
I'd like to install the red zone because I'd tell
the player, you're going to score a touchdown here. I'd
point to a player and I said, you're going to
help them scoring by doing this. But I'll get you
one next time and stuff like that. So but I
alreadys had a thing for it was kind of a
fun thing that I'd give a hundred bucks to any
and we'd go into the red Zone meeting and every
coach had to bring in their five plays from the
(17:43):
or four plays whatever was from the twenty fifteen, ten
to five, and then we'd go around the room and say,
what's your play. I put on the board and then
i'd knock them out. I'd keep some and then we
go into the game that way. And if your play,
if Jim Zorne's play got called in the red zone
and scored on Monday, I give him a hundred bucks.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Okay, And for a coach is the truth. So you're
looking at me.
Speaker 7 (18:05):
For coaches, you'd think, well that's not much, but this was.
This was like the world to them. Sure, okay, all right,
So we get in a game. Jim's got this great play.
We're on the twenty two and it was a play
from the twenty touchdown beautiful. We get Monday and I'm
telling Gary Reynolds, I said, here's how we're going to
do this. I'm gonna tell his word. And I told Jim,
(18:29):
he's waiting for the hundred dollars, and I said, hey,
I'm sorry. This the twenty two is not the red zone.
The red zone starts at the twenty. It was a
great play, but I can't give you the hundred bucks.
So being the competitor is Jim, Well, it is up
in arms. So I say to Gary Reynolds, I said,
here's the commissioner. What do you think. He goes, I
(18:52):
think we should vote the coaches in the room. How
many thinks Jim should get the hundred bucks? Jim raises
his hand.
Speaker 6 (18:58):
How many? You know? All the other coaches.
Speaker 7 (19:02):
I don't remember if I came and gave you the
hundred oh. But we had fun with that, that kind
of stuff, and at the same time, I got the
best from them in those situations. All I had to
do is call them.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
When we led the National Football League in red zone
plays for touchdowns also at some point third downs were
big as well. And I would say it's all about
execution because you had to execute the play. And the
hard part about red zone was you only had one
one practice at it, basically, and there were sixteen plays
(19:40):
because we had four from the twenty four from the fifteen,
ten and five, so every week they were specifically designed
for that particular defense, that particular game. Basically, well, it
was hard.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
We've talked about working with your coaches, working with Jim,
working with Matthew back one step brand new head coach
Green Bay, and at some point this this wild haired
guy comes from Southern Miss, right far. Yeah, I know
you've talked about it a lot, as much has been
made about Brett and going into Hall of Fame and
all that stuff, and well deserved.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
Did that test you at times as a head coach?
Speaker 6 (20:19):
Absolutely it did. Yeah, I mean it was.
Speaker 7 (20:24):
Because I had listened. I had come from Joe Montana,
who was the picture of consistency and just accuracy. And
of course he'd played in the league a while, so
I've got we got far very talented. I conducted his
workout at Southern Miss prior to the draft I was in.
(20:47):
There were eighteen teams there obviously looking at it. And
I remember coming back and writing the report when Ron
Will said should we trade for him? And I said,
I wasn't sure, you know, I said, and I went back,
got my report. I said, he can make, he can
throw like no one I've ever seen. But every ball
is a rocket. You could do it five feet away
and he's going to throw it through you. And then
(21:08):
the other thing, he's unpredictable. And I said, in our offense,
and Jim knows this better than anybody, that one of
the one of the best things a quarterback can do
is let the offense help you, let the progression help you.
And Brett he didn't play the game that way. He'd
throw it under hand, he'd throw it on one lead,
(21:28):
he'd throw it all, he'd throw interceptions.
Speaker 6 (21:30):
He'd he might all those.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
Was that your first year there in Green Bay when
you got him, or or had you been there with
another QB.
Speaker 6 (21:39):
No, that was my first year. Okay, my first year.
Speaker 7 (21:42):
Ron came up to me and said, because we had
I come in and we have two first round picks.
I think it was number four and number nine something
like that, and I said, this is good. Now we
can pick that. You're going to get two really good players.
And Ron came in and said, bless us her. He goes, hey, listen,
I'm looking at Far because Ron had been with the
New York Jets the year before and wanted Far for
(22:05):
the Jets, but Atlanta picked him just before Ron could pick.
So he always kind of wanted him and he and
he goes, think about it, and then so I thought
about it. I said, yeah, I don't know. I really
didn't know. And then he came into the room and
he said, look who we have all those quarterbacks on
this team right now. We had a free agent, we
got a sixth eighth round draft choice. He goes, we
(22:27):
need to get somebody. And and so I was fortunately
I was wise enough to agree with him at some point.
But to your question, Steve, yeah, he was a challenge
and it went on for.
Speaker 6 (22:42):
We.
Speaker 7 (22:43):
We we almost got to the playoffs. My first year
he won six in a row and he made some
miracle things. And then the second year, same thing. And
then I remembered having the conversation with him. I said,
after the season, I said, hey, I like to we
got correct some things and do this and that. And
he goes, Mike, this is how I play the game.
(23:06):
This is just how I play. And I said, okay, okay,
you want to do you want to go to the
super Bowl? Get there some year. He goes, yeah, that's
what we're in it for. I said, okay, we can
get to the playoffs. We can be nine and seven,
we can be ten and six, but we'll never get
there the way you're playing now. I'm asking you to
think about some of these things. And he said okay.
(23:26):
And his credit the third year, he came up and
sat next to me on the plane. And you know, Mike,
that's heat was always open. Probably he was open for
you when you were at Washington. He came up, just
sat down, and normally that you're in trouble if you
sat down and he goes, I go, what do you want?
Speaker 6 (23:44):
And he goes, I get it. I get it.
Speaker 7 (23:49):
And then from that point on he was lights out.
I mean he was really really good and that he
was a pleasure. I had more fun coaching him than
anybody because he was such a wacko, you know, and
he could make me laugh.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, yeah, well he was. He was good.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
And we even on the Seahawks when we when I
had come, we had there was a Brett Fav rule
on one of the patterns, and the Brett Fav rule
was you were never allowed to throw this post outside
the red zone. It had to be the post came
into the into the read if you will when you're
(24:28):
in the red zone, but not, uh, it was it
was shallow. It was a shallow cross. Seventy two x
shallow cross. Do not throw the posts. That's the Brett
fav rule, because Brett would throw this post anywhere when
he felt like he would throw it. Well, we're uh,
we're playing I forgot who we're playing, but we're playing
(24:48):
with Trent Dilferd. He actually I can yeah. I had
the same conversation with Matt almost you got to play
a little more disciplined if we're going to make it
to the championship. And Matt has lost his job to
to Trent. So Trent comes and he throws the post,
and Mike calls seventy two x shallow cross in the
(25:10):
mid midfield. We call it all over the place because
it's a it's a great play, he calls it. Trent
throws the post and Mike is going to just rip
me for this. Trent throws an interception. He throws you know,
we throw the post, and he throws the interception midfield
and I go, what do you you know? I come
off the you know, get on the phone. What are
(25:31):
you doing? Don't you know that Brett favru He goes,
I threw a dime. I go, you threw an interception,
He goes, No, I threw a dime. It was the
best throw I could have I could have ever I
think I've ever made. On that play, I said, Trent,
think about what you're This is right in the middle
of the game. Think about what you're saying. You just
threw a pick a coach, coach, I threw a dime.
(25:53):
That's going, oh great, and I'm going to catch hell
for it, you know, because that was the rule.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
You couldn't throw that. But it was from Brett, probably
irritating you along the way.
Speaker 7 (26:05):
No, he threw the ball well. The defensive back didn't
have much chance to intercept it because he threw the
ball so hard. But you know, because he had to
be a great you know, oh boy, but he he
matured and you know he played. Heck, he played first
he want sixteen years or something.
Speaker 6 (26:24):
But I was part.
Speaker 7 (26:24):
I told Mike Sherman once, who was later the coach
of the Packers, and you're in far a year ten
through and he goes, Mike goes, I had it harder
than you did, because then he wouldn't listen to me.
And I said, okay, let me tell you a couple
of stories. I said, no one had it harder than
me in his first five years of playing. You know,
(26:47):
I don't know, you know, Steve and you and Jim.
I must have played with guys that just were you go,
how are they processed there? This is really different how
they processed stuff.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Yeah, yeah, we've I don't know, in our earliest days,
which I have. You know, it's still kind of a
fog out there of those early times. But it seemed
like we were pretty much a precision kind of game,
because you know, that's what Jerry wanted, and because all
of us.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
Were young guys. We weren't established guys.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
So you know, Sam McCollum and of course Yoda, Steve,
he runs the most precise routes and just finds a
way to get open and the rest of us are
trying to, you know, trying to do the same thing
he does, and we can't do it, and then we
get pissed. Excuse me, we get mad because we can't
figure out why we can't do what Yoda does. But
he was just so skilled that way.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
But I think it's all about you know, what Mike
used to preach, is I want to go from point
A to point B as fast as we can, and
then you make your break. But it had to be
at the right depth because the quarterback in this scheme
is it's all about throwing on rhythm, right. It's rhythm
(27:58):
and timing, you know. And once you developed this idea
of rhythm and the timing of a play, it actually
builds a clock in your brain where you know, as
you try to throw on rhythm and it's not there
or there's clutter, then you can move to the next guy,
the second guy, or the third guy, and you try
(28:19):
to make the third guy look like you're throwing to
the first guy. You know, he was the only guy
I was ever going to throw to. But that's the
precision of it is the route running had to be
at the right depth as fast as you could possibly go,
whether it was twelve yards, seven eighteen yards, and you
had to do it because it made the play work.
(28:41):
It made the play successful potentially.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
I remember, now we'll move jump ahead to the city
your Seahawks times, and now you got Matthew and I
remember you and I. I don't know what the deal was,
but you and I were walking out onto the field
the practice field heading toward the bubble. So it was
later in the season, going back to the enclosed bubble
there at Northwest College where we practiced for so many years,
and we're talking about stuff, and I don't know what
(29:05):
I said. I said something about so, what's you know's
how's Matthew doing? And you stop me and you said,
here's the conversation I had with him, Like the other day,
he said, matt came up to me and said, coch Mike,
we've got to get dems deams May, you're tight end.
We got to get dems. He's got to go faster.
We got to get him to this point. We got
to get that ball out of it. I gotta get
it's got to be faster. And you told me, he said.
(29:26):
I stopped Matthew and I said, you're talking about deams May.
He can't run fast. Just listen to me. We'll get
the ball to the right guy. And sometimes you got
to I guess as a head coach, it's part of
it is just kind of talking guys down off the
ledge and let him know that.
Speaker 5 (29:42):
Hey, it's okay, we'll get you there. I'll get you
what you need.
Speaker 6 (29:45):
No, it absolutely is.
Speaker 7 (29:46):
And with with guys like Matt and Jim can talk
to this as well. He's very bright, I mean, very
very smart, and at times thought he was the smartest
guy in the room.
Speaker 6 (29:58):
We all do, we all have been there.
Speaker 7 (30:00):
Yeah, And to get him to try and listen, I'm
here to help you. I'm here to help you get better.
You know, to the point where we had that flare
up on the sidelines, that that one year where there's
a guy opened right in front of me that he
should have thrown the ball and he didn't on third down,
and oh did I get mad? And I said take
(30:20):
him out, get him out, just going what get him
out of the game. I'm putting senec in and Matt
comes over and goes and I get on him a
little bit and he gets he shoots back of me,
fires back at me. I go, that's it, sitting down,
you're up. And so I'm standing there trying to cool off.
And I'm just standing there and I'm going and the
guy's upstairs, all the coaches going.
Speaker 6 (30:41):
Now.
Speaker 7 (30:41):
Mike said that you got to get back in the gate.
Don't do this series. Yeah, And so he came over
to me, he goes, can I talk to you? I said, yes,
what do you want. He goes, I'm sorry. I shouldn't
have done that. I gaes, okay, you're back in Okay.
So that was in. But then he told the story
to Sarah, and I told a story to Kathy, and Kathy,
(31:04):
you know, you know, Kathy here my wife. She goes,
who's the adult in the room. She goes, you're the adult.
You're gonna apologize to him tomorrow. You're tomorrow you're gonna
go into work and apologize to him. I said, I
don't you know. Ah, And so Matt, before I could
get him, he came into my office and closed the
(31:25):
door and he goes. We both said I'm sorry at
the same time, and so I said okay, okay, and
we both admitted that we were kind of foolish, and
then we both agreed to a ten minute cooling off
period after each series. So he normally he'd come right
over to me and we talk. Then you go talk
(31:46):
to Jim on the phone. I said, you go talk
to Jim first ten minutes, whatever happens, good, bad, whatever,
then you come up and see me. And that worked.
That worked well for us.
Speaker 5 (31:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
The one of the interesting things of that story is
how much And folks outside of football don't know, but
how much of a role the families play, the wives play. Now,
we've known Kathy. I've known Kathy for well as long
as i've known you, so and Joy we've known for
forty five years, almost fifty years now.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
Now I can tell how Joy got that that saying
you're the adult in the room, because I've heard that,
have yet I've heard that telling me Jim, you're the
adult in the room.
Speaker 6 (32:28):
Act like it.
Speaker 5 (32:29):
Well, you know, people don't understand that.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
You know, you bring this game home with you in
many cases, and I don't know how much you'd sur
around and kind of beef about it, but ultimately there
are cooler heads and oftentimes it's those members of our
family that help us kind of Oh wait a minut,
All right, step back.
Speaker 7 (32:47):
Yeah, No, you're right, and I think both Jim and
I would admit that.
Speaker 6 (32:51):
We outkicked our coverage with our lives.
Speaker 5 (32:53):
Well, my hand is up for those of you.
Speaker 7 (32:55):
That and I would say that absolutely about you, but no,
I you know what. And then the other thing was
too And I always had a coach, and in my
case it was guilt because we've gone back to high
coaching high school together and Sherm Lewis was in Green Bay,
the guy that if I ever got over the top,
(33:16):
and he thought I was going past the past the limit,
you have permission to come in and talk to me
about that. You have you alone can come in and
talk to me about it. And that helped me on
occasion that Gil would do it, Sherman Good, close the
door and go Mike, you know the thing and I
and then I made a promise to him that I
(33:38):
wouldn't come back. I mean I would listen and take it.
It didn't happen very often, but it happened once in
a while, and I appreciated that. To your point, Steve,
I think to be able to release some of that
the stuff that's built in. We're competitors. We've been competitors
our whole life.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
And it happens right exactly right. You know you're you're
telling the truth. Tell us you know we're talking about
the quarterback in your conversation with the qbuh and the
qb was one of the guys you spoke with or
during the football game. But as a head coach, you
have to do you have to be involved with more
(34:20):
positions than just the QB. Were there other players that
you remember along the way, especially with the Seahawks that
gave issue to you?
Speaker 7 (34:30):
Yeah, I you know what I I, Yes, there were
and you know what it's uh, the defensive guys. I
would usually talk to them as a group. So in practice,
if I thought it wasn't going because I hired a
good defensive coordinator, they're all working hard, the defensive coaches,
I kind of let them. I kind of stayed away
from them, except on occasion where I thought it was
(34:52):
not going, they weren't going hard or they were you know,
it was not it was sloppy, in which case then
I'd get on the whole group offensively. I yeah, if
a receiver, if I could stop the because you know,
you know, I did a practice, I was away kind
of stepping a waif and then you guys were running
practice and I was watching. And then if I didn't
(35:13):
like something, or you didn't make a correction, or a
receiver coach didn't make a correction, I didn't want that
thing to slide by, so I'd step in. I remember
one time, and you guys, remember Chris Gray, Oh, this
is a great story, and Chris Gray. I still remember
wonderful one of the not only a wonder but a
wonderful person and a very uh you know. He had
(35:34):
Tobec Hutchinson. You have all those guys in there who
were kind of verbal. Walter wasn't, but the other guys were.
And then Chris never said anything nothing. But he was
a good Christian man. He was he was a and
he gave you everything he had. One day, we're running
a play. He pulls stops in the hole and the
running back runs right into him, in the back of him,
(35:55):
and then he kind of trots along I and so
I snapped, and I go, Chris, Oh, I use some
bad language with Chris. And I knew I is you know,
I didn't like to do that very often, but I did.
I use some bad language with him. And he just
stunned him because he that is language you didn't And
I just walked away put And then Tobek came up
(36:17):
to me afterwards and said, you know, I think you
really hurt his feelings.
Speaker 6 (36:23):
I go, and he's.
Speaker 7 (36:24):
Laughing, you know, Tobak's kind of laughing. I said, I
don't care, you know whatever, but I that's another next day,
I had to go up with Chris and say, hey,
I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Man, listen, I can tell you exactly. I didn't hear
the cuss words, but I can tell you, and I
don't think you. I don't think you said anything. I
can tell you exactly what he said. And this is
the best question I've ever heard of coach say. He said,
Chris Gray, is that as fast as you can run?
He said, because and he paused, and Chris was going
(36:55):
back because he was going to be wrong whichever way
he went.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
If that's the fact you can run, we can't run
that play.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
And if that's not the fastest you can run, why
aren't you running faster?
Speaker 1 (37:07):
And oh my gosh.
Speaker 4 (37:08):
That's that's where That's what Chris Gray had to deal
with right there. And Mike was really in his jaw
because he said, because he asked him, is that as
fast as you can run? And Chris was going to be, well,
you know, let me think about that a little bit.
Speaker 6 (37:24):
And then the thing is, but I loved him. He
knew it.
Speaker 7 (37:27):
And I think I told you when I took all
those guys out for dinner, when Hutch went.
Speaker 6 (37:33):
In the Hall of Fame, I couldn't be at the
Hall of Fame. So I took all the lineman.
Speaker 7 (37:36):
Engine Jim and Jim and Matt was there and Max
Strong and Eric Kennedy.
Speaker 6 (37:43):
Those are the guys.
Speaker 7 (37:44):
I took the dinner and Chris came in from where's
he lived now he lives in Alabama, I think Alabama.
They all came and they it turned out to be
a roasting session started by Tobek.
Speaker 6 (37:56):
You go, Chris, Remember.
Speaker 7 (37:57):
When Coach Homeran yelled at you and there when oh yeah,
tell that story and the story is just started coming.
Speaker 6 (38:02):
They started coming. It was a great night.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
It is one of the things that makes this game
great is that those kind of relationships last fifteen to
twenty twenty five years after we played. Same with ze Man. Now,
like we said, forty plus years in counting.
Speaker 5 (38:17):
That's going to do it for this edition.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
But coach has graciously agreed, I think gracious is the
right word.
Speaker 6 (38:23):
Thank you, Thank You're very.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
Welcome, graciously agreed to stay with us for another session
that we will air at a later date. So be
sure you keep an eye on seahawks dot com and
all the rest of those places that I don't know
where you can find this Seahawks' stories and we'll continue
our conversation with head coach and I don't know. I
think I'm at the front of the line along with
(38:45):
Jim leading the way for Hall of Fame member Mike Holmgren.
Speaker 5 (38:48):
But we'll get that done next time. Great having you
with us. We'll see you next time.
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