December 12, 2023 • 52 mins
Former head coach Mike Holmgren continues his conversation with Jim Zorn and Stevel Raible in part two of Seahawks Stories. Today’s show: Jim Zorn in the sprint draw (02:30), what makes you a good coach (06:38), 2005 Super Bowl season (12:00), little details matter (17:10), Jim Zorn becoming a head coach (21:14), Super Bowl XL (27:47), toughest decision made as a coach (30:55), staying in Seattle after retirement (33:46), going into the Ring of Honor (40:32), and support from our wives (45:46).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to Seahawks stories, teaking you behind the scenes
with your favorite Seahawks. Set back to behind, Zorn, who's
back to pass as time looks for the left sideline,
throws a bomb down there. He's got a man in front.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
He makes the grab a travel at a thirty down
of the twenty.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
They'll never get him.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
He scores touched out.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Seahawks powered by Seahawks Dot Com and.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Zorn Later then perfectly a Rabel who goes in to
score on an eighty yard pass and run play. Now,
here's your host, the voice of the Seahawks, Steve Raebol
and Seahawks legend Jim Zorn. Raves, was that your only play?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Well, I was just gonna say, Mike, is you know
Mike Homegrin is with us for a second goal around here.
We've already done one part to his interview. We've got
a second time with him now. And I think I
was almost kind of reading your mind, like, Okay, is
there another play that we can that we can airview?
Something anything like a little six yard out anything. Well,
I had heard you are more of a blocker and
(00:57):
I cleared out a lot. Yeah, I be that guy.
Who'd run that post that you weren't supposed to throw.
We talked about in the first episode. I was that
guy running down there to get that safety out of
the way.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Not only safety, but they had to doub well, they
had to double cover you. So you took two guys
with you, and everyone else caught.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Past, and Steve caught. He's in the Hall of Fame
for crying out. This is funny. Now. The other day,
we had our Thanksgiving game right here, and we were
talking about Thanksgiving games and I remembered we played in
nineteen eighty in Dallas on Thanksgiving Day.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I'll never forget the game.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
It was like the third game in eleven days, and
we were just beat up. And there's a whole lot
of stories involved in that. But the way that game
started was they were going to roll up to Steve's
side and so they had the corner roll up in
his face safety over the top, so he's basically getting
double coverage and my side, the cornerback was just dropping
off like eight, ten, twelve yards. We threw about three
(01:51):
out routes until they finally said, well, listen, I guess
we can't do just let him stand out there. So
we're going to have to start, so they mixed it
up a little more rolled up. I never caught another
pass the rest of the day, the rest of the day,
but it was kind of funny for a moment there.
I saw what Steve would be up against every week,
and that is, you know, coverages, rolled up, linebackers rolling,
(02:14):
getting outside and getting up underneath him.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
He would catch some games he would catch twelve balls
and the next game he'd catch two. Really because they'd
take it. They would just double him, and we had
to move him around to get him, try to get
him singled and things like motion helped.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
And you know, it's funny because in the previous episode
Jim was talking about how discipline the quarterback has to
be and it's all rhythm and timing. If memory serves
me correctly, he moved around a little bit, didn't he?
Would you talk about that a little bit?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Well, our whole offense after about the second year. I
think our offense was based on the sprint draw and
because Jim was so good at rolling out of the pocket.
He was a left hander, so he could throw to
his left side. The ball, contrary to what people say,
has a different spin on it. And I know because
you know, I'm looking at it and all of a
sudden it's kind of coming down in a different way.
(03:07):
But that was part of the deal. And he and
Sherman Smith was so good. Sherman was our running back,
and so Sherman would get the either get that deep
hand off on the sprint draw or the playfake to him,
and then Jim rolls out and we based a lot
of our offense off of that, and then we could
run all kinds of rout combinations behind it. And but
(03:28):
to give that defense the same look, and he was
he was amazing. I mean, there was every so often
on on what's it called now it's called X and
I think it was at one time Twitter, but it's
called X. I can't sure they do that. I know, okay,
there's it's just dumb. But and I'm not, truly, I'm
not smart enough to keep up with that stuff. But
(03:48):
every so often there are these things will pop up
and somebody put on their an opening to like a
Monday night game that that Howard Cosell and Don Meredith
and all those and so they were showing highlights and
they were talking about it, and it just reminded me
how how skilled Jim was in getting outside, rolling out
(04:09):
and he'd pull it down and run it either. There
were a couple of those highlights. I remember you'd take
off and run for thirty forty yards and it's not
like you were a speed demon or anything, but you
just you just knew how to do that.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
You know, on this on that action that he's talking about,
would you set up afterward or would you keep going?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
We had both. I could set up, I could go,
I could give the ball, I could keep the ball,
and I could run naked. I could run the other way.
I coped go the other way, and I made I
told Jerry when we first started that series, I said,
I don't want you to call any play to my
left hand. I just want you to call the play.
(04:45):
And because I'm going to show you in practice and
in games that I can actually throw as well to
my right as I could to my left, I made
myself do that because I didn't want him to, you know,
always have to lean towards the left and the way
I was running. So we did that and one of
the best passes I threw was against the Denver Broncos
(05:10):
one year. We beat you know, and you could run
deeper patterns because you know the fake draw. And Jerry
wouldn't let me come towards the line of scrimmage because
he said, you have from your fate all the way
to the sideline. You know, we're gonna run twenty three
yard routes. Awesome, you know, and we ate up a
lot of yardage running twenty twenty three yard routes.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
How important for you as a head coach to have
coaches like Jim And I'm thinking of your staff and
you had a bunch of guys who were really terrific
football players as well as being teachers. But how important
for those guys that really had been there at the
NFL level and done well.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
I think against everything. Yeah, you know, in Jim's case,
you know he Matt knew him, the coach, the other
quarterbacks knew him, knew what he had done before he
says anything in the room. There's a respect there just
from who he was, what he did. Okay, and then
you couple it with okay, he's a good teacher. He
(06:11):
can show me, he's a good person. He relates to me.
That's what you need, and that's what he was. And
I was fortunate that way because I had guys on
my staff who were good players. But that in itself,
because you see it now. There are a lot that
you see it now all over and I'm the old
(06:33):
man so but I've seen it the last few years.
You get guys in there that it's not automatic. That
doesn't make you necessarily a great coach. You know, you
have to be able to communicate. You're not just a
yeller and a screamer. You know, you have to be
able to relate to the player. And like I said before,
(06:54):
I was very fortunate to have guys. But that was
one of jim strengths, I think.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
And I'd love to when he said that he would
step in when a mistake would happen. You'd see it
or something was slow, but he was always there and
he he saw from the quarterback perspective, we're not going
to be able to complete this pass if you run
the route this slow or this way, or you know
(07:20):
we need you know, you can't whiff or we're scrambling.
And I thought he did a really good job of
paying attention during practice to where you know, not many
things were left to and if he didn't catch it
at that moment, he would catch it on video. Hey,
(07:41):
what happened there? You know? There was a lot of
questions and answers along the way.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
And Jim's when he mentioned the fact that he's left handed,
and he was great coiners left. But he told the
guy called call him anywhere, go I go to my right.
I can throw the same way. I was reminded, getting
back to Brett fav for just a second, that we
had a goal line play and Jim remembers it sprint
right option. We did it with a forty nine ers.
Jerry Rice must have caught I don't know how many
(08:09):
touchdowns on that Dwight Clark in the famous catch that
was sprint right option. So Steve Mariucci was on our staff,
a great coach, and he goes, let's run it to
the left, and it's a fast thing. You got to
come out and bang. You got to turn your shoulder.
There's a way to do that if you're right handed.
(08:29):
Some guys can do it, some guys can't. Brett Favre, No,
that didn't work so well. So I go, no, we
can't go come on and there all the coach goes,
we got to try it because we're doing right handed
all the time. All of a sudden, Okay, we called
it in practice. He came out, threw it behind the
receiver by five yards and you're only you're not that
(08:50):
far away.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
He couldn't.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
I said, okay, you all seen it. I never want
to see that play run again. Don't even talk to
me about you know, so a quarterback they can go
do both things. That'd be great.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
There's a there was a play and when he's talking about,
you know, the quarterback's arm right handed when you get
in a three by one formation. In the NFL, Mike
used to always say, hey, it doesn't matter we're playing
from the middle of the field because when he was
coaching in college and when I was in coaching in college,
you know, the hashes are really wide, and there really
is a way to spread people out and not get
(09:26):
bunched in. Well, on the right hand, I'm still thinking
we need to spread people out so we're on the
right hash. And so Mike calls this play we had.
It was it was four verticals called Dancer, and he
calls the formation into the boundary in the three receivers
are into Mike. Mike, Mike, and I'm on the phone
(09:46):
with him, Mike, you just called it into the boundary.
Flip it over, Jim, be quiet. He calls it into
the boundary. Matt drops back, and you know, the three
receivers are too they're too close to each other. Matt
throws a touchdown pass from about the forty five yard line,
and I, you know, from that point on, I kept
(10:06):
my mouth shut when it came to how he was,
where he was going to call, how he was going
to call the play, because he proved to me that
you know, in the NFL, the you know, there is
no boundary, the boundary side we you know, we think
there there is, and we want sometimes you do, want
to spread people out. But he didn't care. He wanted
(10:29):
to throw to Matt's armside and it didn't matter to him,
and maybe he saw a thought of coverage into the
boundary that you know, it didn't scare him, and he
called it and it was a touchdown. Well, shut me up.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
And as this relates to our communication during the game,
I had a rule that Haskell was upstairs. Jim was upstairs. Yeah,
coaches upstairs, coaches on the field, okay, but the coaches
upstairs had you know, Jim was looking at coverage. He was,
he was looking a lot of stuff, and then I
expected him to give information to Gil. So then at
(11:07):
one point when the defense is going on, then I
can gather all the information together and kind of Trey
perhaps called a game better. But I didn't want to
hear his voice, I said, And I tell him, I said,
Gill's the only one I want to hear. If you
have something to say, say it to him. Because I
turn on I flip on the defensive side and it
(11:29):
was like chaos. They're all talking about that. No, that's
all great, I said, how did they get anything done?
But Jim, every once in a while he couldn't help it. Mike, Mike, Jim, Jim,
you know the rules.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Go back to your room.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
It was fun. Oh, it was really fun.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
There was so you came into Seattle here in ninety nine,
I believe right, and didn't take long. I remember one
of the first things you said was, we're not here
just to make like we're not here to make the
playoffs this year. We're not. We're here to win over time.
We're here to make the try to make a championship
run every single season. And didn't take all that long,
(12:07):
and there you are, and we're standing in Detroit and
we're getting set to take on the Pittsburgh Steelers. Did
you have a real sense for how big a deal
that was for Seattle? I mean, you'd been through it
twice with Green Bay, but for Seattle, we had never
had anything quite like that being in.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
The Super Bowl. Yeah, it was. It was not only
for Seattle, but for me and for for our staff.
And we'd worked so hard to get there. And I
remember Peter King asking me, do you feel because it
took us? You know, it took us seven years. It
took us a while to get there. But as we
(12:47):
were getting better, he goes, do you feel vindicated now?
Because you know I took some eight early on? And
I didn't. I just was happy. I was. I said,
they worked hard. I loved our team. You know, I
thought we played hard all year. We had a great
championship game, and to be there, to be there was special.
(13:10):
It was funny. You know, you talk about going into
a new place and Jim experiences in Washington. You go
in there and you analyze you to try and analyze
your team. What do I have? And I did that
here and then a couple of years later. I mean,
Cortes Kennedy was around, great person, great football player. He
(13:37):
came up and apologized to me and he goes, I'm like,
I'm sorry. I go, what are you sorry about? Well,
when I came in, there were guys that have been
here a while, and you know they're not gonna you
have a different coach than the previous coach or different
rules and whatever, and not everybody bought in. I know that,
(13:58):
and so little by little it takes some time to
then get the team just the way you want it
so you have a shot at the super Bowl. And Cortes,
bless his heart, I mean, he was one of the
best players we had. But I remember that we played
Buffalo in the last game of the year I think
my second year, and they killed us, and our guys
(14:20):
are packed the bags. They didn't play. And that's what
he was. He was apologizing for that. And so it
takes a while. It takes a little while to get
everyone believing. And so when we got to Detroit. That
was one of the great things about that team. They
all went through that and they they thought, Okay, here
(14:40):
we go. We got a shot.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
I remember, I don't know if you do Jim. After
our first season seventy six, I think we're flying back
from Philly. I think we played our last game of
my rookie year in Philly and we're coming back. And Jack,
unlike Mike who said in the front and had the
seat beside him all all the time that was empty,
Jack sat in the back with the coaches and the
(15:05):
staff were back there. The oldest players sat in the
front and then worked their way back, so we were
still young players, so we were back behind the curtain
and all that. So on the flight back, Jack was
bringing individuals back to his seat, back to the back,
and like you said, when somebody sits down next to you,
(15:25):
usually they're in trouble for something. Well, one of the
guys comes up, and I think it was Fergie, came
up and grabbed me and he says, hey, Jack wants
to see it in the back. I thought, oh my god,
what I'm done. My careers lasted one year. It wasn't
a very good year, except for that touchdown pass you
through me in Minnesota. I said, that's it. We're all done.
Now I can go on with my life's work. And
(15:47):
so he brings me back there, and you know, we're
talking about stuff. And he finally says, he said, look
up there, look all the way up to the front
of the plane. And I said, okay, yeah, he said,
those guys won't be here. He said, those guys, they're
the veterans, they're many of them were in the allocation.
And I had several of those players before that game
in Philly say, hey, you know, this is the last game.
(16:08):
Don't get hurt, don't bust a grape. Just you know,
let's let's get home. And then you got the offseason
and Jack said, I know that. He said, they're not
going to be here, but he said that core you guys,
you and Z. And that's when he had his famous
saying to me. He said, you catch the ball just
as well as large and just not as often. And
I thought, well that okay, I think that's a backhanded comment,
but okay, a compliment. But coaches see that, they they
(16:34):
understand and they know the guys that that core group
that you know, you you got to have to build around.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Yeah, I think it's true, and I think you know
that's that's one of the pleasures, one of the joys
of coaching, if you can ever get to that point
where you you're all, you're all you feel this and
you know this. You're all in it together. There's no outliers,
and so that's not easy. That's that's that's the challenge.
(17:01):
That's the challenge you have. But one's quick story. I
have a bigger challenge. This is off the subject. We're
flying somewhere in Seattle. We're going on a trip. And uh,
I had a thing. You know, a lot of long trips.
I like to have a good meal, and we were
(17:23):
having and I like the everyone a while, let's shoot
back to Thanksgiving. I like turkey, stuffing, mashed potatoes, the
whole deal, you know. And uh, and then I could
sleep and do whatever.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
This was a football trip, football trip.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
They give me the play, they give me this the platter, and.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
I'm not quite sure what it is.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Are we coming or going? We're going, Okay, we're going.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
We're flying vegetables and sushi and and I had never
had any, and I go, what in the world? I
So I call up Sam Amps. He's now a big
shot in the He was my trainer, and he sat
in the seat you don't want to sit in, and
(18:08):
I said, hey, what is this I point to my
plate and he goes, well, you know, we've been talking
to people about a healthier you know, way to go here,
and this is really good energy stuff. I said, all right,
if you ever decide to change food again on this plane,
(18:32):
it goes through me first. Is that clear? Yes? But
I said no, no, no, butts, no butts. Now would someone
get me a cheeseburger or something? Is there? Is it possible?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Oh? She?
Speaker 3 (18:46):
You know that's a That was a.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
We're on the way to play a team in the
National Football League, but we have to have the food, right,
and that is that is kind of the uh necessary
those are the necessary details of a head football coach.
It's not so much well for Mike, it was hey,
something's different, right, and uh, you better you better run
(19:11):
it through the head coach because any little changes, like
any change like that, you get you get nervous about
what what is going to happen and you're not you know,
you don't know how to answer it. Eventually, Mike was
going to have to answer, what kind of food do
we have on the plane?
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Well?
Speaker 1 (19:29):
What it affects you as the head coach. It's probably
going to affect the players.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
They're going to look at well loves that I thought.
I guess, I guess they were the sushi group. I
wasn't so I guess I would have gotten some pushback
on that, But no, I was. I think all the
little details I remember, Yeah, I remember in Green Bay, Uh,
you know, our our meeting on Saturday night. Saturday night,
we'd have a meeting. Then we go in and have
(19:55):
you know, sandwiches, cheeseburgers, whatever, soup, you know, salads. It
was a long table of stuff and guys could have
a nice something to eat before they went to bed.
In Green Bay, when I got there talking about changing
the culture, there was a gentleman who was the financial
guy controller. You know, green Bay was run a little differently.
(20:18):
There's no owner. So he would stand by the big
bowl of soup. Because I liked soup. There was a
big bowl of soup there, and he would stand by
and see how many players got a bowl of soup.
And then if it wasn't financially worth it, he takes
(20:39):
soup off the menu and I go the next time
we're there, there's no soup, I go wear the soup. Well,
last week we only had thirteen players have soup. And
it costs this amount. I go. Stop. He'd been there
forever I go. You will put on the table what
I want. That's how we're going to do this. Okay,
(21:00):
But I said no, no, no, no, you know, and
so you have to these all these little weird things
come up aside from coaching the football, which you really
loved to do. Then there's a lot of little weird things.
You know.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
How did it all go? First of all, he became
a head coach with Washington? Yes, did you what kind
of advice did you give?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Him?
Speaker 1 (21:20):
If any, if you had an opportunity to, did you,
considering I don't know, considering the organization has been through
some tough times, did you maybe advise him, Hey, Jim,
this might not be the best place for you or.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
No, no, I I you know Jim. Jim had head
coached a long time and so he knew. But I
did give some advice to Dan Snyder, you know, the
owner of the Redskins. He so, uh, you know, I
recommended Jim for the He talked to me and I
recommended Jim for the job. And then as the thing
was going, we talked and he was in it, and
(21:55):
you know, he got a good shot. I'm in Hawaii
with Kathy and I get a phone call and Stan Snyder.
He goes, I hired your boy. I go, what, yeah, Zorn,
I'm hiring Zorn as the head coach. I said, way
to go. That's great. He'll do a great job for you.
(22:16):
And honestly, goodness, he goes, I hope, so you know,
I go, no, no, no, there's no hoping. He's going to
get this thing done. But I got to tell you
something because I knew Dan Snyder. We had had a
little tya tay earlier in my career, and I said,
instead of hurting him, you got to help him. You're
the owner. You got to help him be good. What
do you mean? And he got at, you know, says
(22:37):
he would. I said, you've had coaches, you've had You've
fired coaches every two years. It's not working. He's a
good man, he's a good coach. Help him, don't hurt him. Okay,
you know. And then that was it. But then listening
to Jim in his time there, and it was an
interesting time for him certainly, but it was it was
(22:57):
a tough organization. I'll let you speak to it, but
it was I think from Afar. I don't know how
they ran it, but it was a tough organization for
a coach, and it can be you can go in
a you can go in a place that it's going
to be hard, you know, and uh not everyone's the same.
Not every organization is the same.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And I and I had, uh you know, I was
I felt like I was ready to be the head
coach of the Redskins. And I would say this that
my rule of thumb was if I didn't have the answer,
if I didn't really know, I was going to revert
to what would Mike do? What would Mike do in
this situation? What would he How would he fashion this?
(23:37):
And so you know, I had a lot of things
that are you know, already in my mind how how
we could win. But when I when I struggled with
I just said, well it worked for Mike. And Mike
had developed the plans over the years, and I'm sure
he I didn't even I didn't know how many plans
(23:59):
he had thrown out or how many thoughts he had
thrown out, but I did know the ones that he
hung his hat on, and those are the things that
I tried to hang my hat on when I didn't
really have the answer, and a lot of the things
were already there. There are certain things that have to happen.
But yeah, it was quite a thrill to be actually
(24:21):
making the decision on the direction of a team to
try to build a championship team. Yeah, that was a
thrill and I enjoyed that. I enjoyed it. I felt
like I was in my element.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
You know what, you guys know this that a successful franchise.
You have a coach, and you have a general manager
typically and or a president, and then maybe an owner.
An owner everyone just kept except Green Bay. If that
group of people aren't shooting, aren't rowing the boat in
(24:55):
the same direction, it's hard. It's hard. It's hard enough
to to win the game. But if you go into
a situation where Okay, the general manager or the president
is I wouldn't do that, or he's telling the owner,
you know, he messed. You know, if you get a
situation like that, it's really really hard to win in
(25:15):
this league. You seen it too many organizations.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
And I would say to add to that, Mike always
had wanted a healthy organization. You know, up front, this
is how we're going to do it, and that's how
we did it. There was no little side deals going on,
and that that was one of the things that I realized,
you know, if there was going to ever be a struggle,
(25:39):
it was because somebody took their own initiative to do
something different than the direction that we were going in.
And when that happens, Mike handled it right up front
right now. I mean he didn't he didn't wait for
the off season to clean things up. He was handling
things as they if they ever came. But it was
(26:02):
a really healthy situation to be here, the healthiest organization
that I'd ever been a part of. And I'd been
in some dysfunction, uh, beyond you know, beyond coaching here
in Seattle, I was, I was in some interesting situations.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Did you think that, Well, when it came to an end,
did you think, well, that's it now, I guess my
opportunity is is gone. Uh, you know, this may be
my my only chance to be a head coach. And
how how was that you you actually were able to
walk away from this opportunity here and you went off
to Cleveland and became president of the organization. But how difficult?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Was that? It was difficult? And I still feel that
I have unfinished business, you know. I I you know,
I feel like I should be able to uh. I
you know, I didn't get bad just because I you know,
I got let go from from that particular team and
(27:04):
so but I did go to a couple other teams
that had some dysfunction. Uh And that was that made
it even more difficult to be thought of a guy
that had some steadiness, some some innovative stuff or some
you know, some stuff that could work. Yeah, it was
(27:25):
that that was tough. So I still feel that way,
you know, in in in the football world, unfinished business.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
You know. It's it's funny you you people ask me
on occasion, you one of the good things, what are
the bad things? What do you remember? Those types of things?
And our super Bowl against Pittsburgh. It's been a long
time since we played that game, you know. And for
(27:52):
the most part, yeah, it's it's you know, and then
every once in a while someone will talk, Oh, I
think the officials. I'll meet some guy in the airport
and somewhey, I'll come up and goes you know, I
don't think they handle it right. You got a raw deal,
Like when are you talking about the super Bowl in Pittsburgh.
I said, yeah, but I'm over that now. But I'm
glad you brought it up, because now I'm going to
(28:13):
go rip apart from the book I was reading, you know,
So you don't you don't forget stuff. And if you're
if you have a lot of pride and and and
feel good about how you teach, how you coach, and
and confidence in your ability to get it done, and
then you get the feeling like I'm not they're not
(28:36):
letting me. For however that comes down, They're not letting me.
And you try and fight through it, fight through it,
you know. And I made this statement to you know
here near the end. There were a couple of times
near the end that and I've told this to people.
It's hard enough to win the game, the battle on
the field, that's it's that's hard, and you work hard.
(29:01):
If you're also fighting that battles in the building, it's
almost too much.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, you know, Yeah, no, he's telling the truth.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
One of the things it does is it shows us
the remarkable relationship between Pete Carroll and John Schneider. Absolutely
guys who have made it work. Now, this is what
fourteen years, I guess from the draft, through the free
agency and all that kind of stuff. But we also
don't see that kind of longevity anymore in this league.
I mean on both sides of you know, general managers, coaches,
(29:33):
coaches get fired after a year less than a season.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Crazy, it's crazy, yeah, yeah, and that's not fair at all. No,
And you know, and actually firing people on your staff.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
You know, I.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
I hired people, they moved their families from point A
to come here. I always said, it's my obligation to
make that work. I brought him here. And if something,
if they're not, then you work with that person and
then try and fix it instead of just saying the
(30:10):
only the only group that I fired, I fired, you know,
Steve said, well, and that defensive staff. And Steve came
into me and said, Mike, you got to let me go.
I'm not helping you. And he was one of my
I loved him, but it was true. It was there
was a breakdown defensively and he came in and said,
I said, Steve, he goes no, no, no, you know, it's okay,
(30:33):
you gotta let me go. And so that otherwise otherwise
I didn't I didn't do that. But you see other
coaches that have done that with their staffs. They're always
turning people over and then now guys getting fired without
even finishing a year. Yeah, come on, I mean.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
You know, toughest decision you ever had to make as
a coach, oh boy, generally about probably about a player
that it was time to let go or something like that.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Maybe, Yeah, there we was. There was a few of them,
So I always thought because of how I reacted when
they I got cut.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
You know, I was with the Cardinals and I really
had a good training camp and I said, I'm going
to make this finally, make make a team, make pros.
And I saw the coach coming towards me after our
last practice. The final cutdown day was that day, and
I go and I ran into the I ran into
(31:40):
the training room. I ran away from him, and he
started coming to the training room. I ran in the bathroom.
I mean he chased me around. He didn't run, but
he had to find me to tell me I was cut.
And so so whenever I had to do that with
a player that I knew had given me everything, that
(32:00):
was hard. So that was that was the least favorite
part of my job. Necessary and the players typically where
they understood, but it was still hard. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Yeah, those guys, they come in young, and you know,
in many cases, this is their dream and this is
in many cases kind of all they have. This is
what they've hung their their young adult life on, is
to try to make it in the National Football League.
And somebody has to make that call. And unfortunately, along
with all of the accolades of being a head coach
(32:35):
for both of you guys, and being successful at what
you do, comes that difficult decision where you're deciding somebody's future.
Quite frankly, right, and well, it must be difficult.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
It is hard. But sometimes they don't see the player
doesn't see that they were just they were just glad
to be there, you know what I mean, And you're
cutting them and they don't they can't believe it. But
they're they're not up. They're not really going in the
same direction as as you were going. The hard part,
(33:05):
and I think Mike, Mike would say it is he
gave everything he had. He knew that he was gonna
be a great addition to this team, and then you
had to you had to let him go. Uh when
he had that right attitude that those are the guys
you're looking for too, that will say, Man, I want
to do anything. I'm going to do everything I can
do to help us win on this team or help
(33:27):
help us, you know, let me be a part of
this team, and then you let him go. That's the
harder part. The guys that are just hanger, you know,
the guys that are just there. Uh, they don't work
hard enough to be a pro at that time. And
the players know it, you know, they can see.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
It, both of you, guys. To California kids, right to
California guys. You come up here, you as a player,
and then in your coaching career, Mike, you come up
here as a coach, and for the most part, yes,
going away to different places and worked and coached and
did all those things, and you end up coming back
up here. And a goodly deal of your families are
(34:07):
are here as well. What's that all about.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Well, it's a great place to live. I tell people
now that they didn't fire me so I could stay
in the city, you know. So but it you know,
and we're fortunate because well my kids are here, my
grandkids are here in the area, and so and and
people that I remember, we get we draft players from
(34:30):
Florida or Alabama or someplace and Seattle. I talked to
them on the phone Seattle, and honest to goodness, I
think some of them you look at a map and
they say Seattle is there, and they go, oh, my goodness,
that's no, that's Alaska. No, that's Seattle. You know. And
so but then when you get up here, even for
(34:52):
a California kid, you know, it will rains a lot.
I hear people down there tell me all the storm,
it rains a lot. I said, it's good. We keep
the riff raft. We keep the people out of there.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
You know.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Don't like the rain, no, But it's the trees, the water,
the people. You fall in love with the place, I think.
And so you know, I never I never thought about
coaching in Seattle or Seattle very much. But then you
get to know the place, and it's been good for me,
(35:22):
and the people were great to us and our family,
and I'm fortunate to have my kids up here.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Now you're always going to be Jim Zorn, that first
quarterback of the Seattle Seahawks franchise. That's I mean, that's
really something to hang your hat on, you know, Yoda
all that he did Hall of Fame deserves it all
great credit and all that. There's only one first quarterback
of a franchise. How have you carried that all these
(35:49):
years with you? And what's it meant to you? The family,
they're all up here as well.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, I think in the beginning, and you can, you
can relate to this. The fans were so great to us,
still are obviously, but and I think it's the it's
the attitude of the twelfth the twelves that make it
really special or you know, they they remember us for what,
(36:15):
you know, for whatever reason. And I don't know how
many young people know that you were a star wide
receiver for the Seahawks unless you say it every every
time you go, you get on the radio, Hey remember me,
But you don't. And yet you are, you know you
Steve Rabel. I think you could say the same thing.
They think of you and they think synonymous Seattle Seahawks.
(36:40):
But I would say it's the fans that we used
to walk in, yeah with we had the Kingdome. Well,
when we came in to the parking lot, we just
parked with the fans. You know, Hey, how's it going, Jim,
Hey have a great game? Yeah, hey, thanks, and you're
just walking in with the fans. Uh do you have
(37:01):
your ticket? And I'm one of the players. Okay, you know, go.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
We didn't even have the closest spots to the gate
to get into the stadium. Those were like first season
ticket olders. We parked out in that lot back there,
and we got four or five of us walking in
and people just walking with.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Us, and it was it was great. I hope you
played well today. Oh we do too. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Well, I was spoiled because obviously I had my own spot,
and I had a police escort to the game and
all that stuff. And then when I broadcast games there, Yeah,
I'm in, I'm out in the North forty parking. I go,
what happened in my parking spot? Yeah, what happened? I
come over here to do this thing today, just to
kind of where do I park? There's thousands of cars there.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
I got to you know, I remember we did a
game at the LA Coliseum, you and I and uh
we uh we had to park way the hell away
from that kind of entrance where you got up to
the press box. They're the older press box.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
And I remember us schlepping across the parking lot, and
I thought, I'm watching Mike. This is this is not
what Mike has No you had over there.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Get spoiled. You get spoiled.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
That bus would drop us off right there at the
top of that tunnel, and you just get right in
and you're in the front seat of the bus. And
when you're when you sit down, you point and here
we go.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
No, I know I.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Would say this that. And today, you know, the players
have a different way to park and you know, you know,
coaches have a different way to do it. There's a
little more everything's secured in private and all that kind
of stuff. But the fans still appreciate the Hawks much
the same way as they did when when we played.
(38:38):
It's it's it's a different you know, it's a different way.
They used to put up posters and they might put
a little color, you know, they might wear Seahawk colors,
but not full outfits and and alter egos face right,
there's a lot of alter egos out there today and
they are just as enthusiastic about the Hawks as the
(38:59):
things were when we play. You can see it, you
can see it in their faces.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Do you get to many games, Mike, No, I don't.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
I really don't. I And I'll tell you. One of
the things is I love the team. I watch it
on television. I got to talk about it during the week.
But the radio station that I worked for, they had
a game where you had they invited donor big money people.
(39:26):
They want me there to say a load of people.
So Kathy and I went. So we're in a box.
It was the first time I had been in a
box or come back since I coached.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
It was a few years.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
And so I'm in the box, I'm talking to people,
and I hear there's big roar and Pete coming up.
Pete Pete is coming out on the field and there
people are going crazy. And then I go. I go
to Kathy, I go, they never did that for me.
She goes, yes they did, Yes they did. I go,
(40:00):
they did. I'd walk I don't know where I was
when I'd walk out on the field, but I was.
I was. I was focused and I didn't even hear
any of that stuff. So but then I realized. What
I realized is that I can be in one of
those boxes, lux of nice box, flood and all that stuff,
and you're you're watching the game. But I so much
(40:22):
more enjoyed being down on the field that that, uh,
someone else can do it, and you know I can
just I can watch it.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
You know.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
It was great, a great moment last year when both
you and Matthew went in and then Sean later in
the season went into the Ring of Honor, and so
I get the honor of being the guy down there
on stage to kind of introduce you guys, and it
was just such a treat. I mean, going back to
the first days I was there, when Pete was inducted
(40:53):
into the Ring of Honor two days before he died,
and so to see all these guys and then finally it,
you know, it took a little, but finally to get
you up there and Matthew up there, it was just great.
I hope you had an opportunity to really feel the
fans that night, because they were, at least from what
I could hear, they were at the top of their game.
They were really grateful to you and your staffs, Jim included,
(41:17):
for being a part of this community for so long
and for doing what you did for the CEO.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Well, I can't tell you how much that meant to
me and or my family, you know, and I'd go
to games. I see Jim's names up there. There are
famous people up there. You know, I said, how cool
would that be? How cool would that be? And then
when we finally got to do it, and then you
were the one that gave it to me, you know,
(41:46):
because we have a history as well, it was just special.
It was really special, and I could feel it from
the fans. And this year I got some tickets for
one of my grandsons for his birthday. They came to
a game and they sent me a picture. You know,
everyone's got phones they can take I have a phone
with a camera. I don't know how to do it,
(42:07):
but and they were right underneath that the Ring of
honor name there and that that's pretty cool. Yeah when
your grandkids think, look at that's my grandfather.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
So no special.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
And you know, Mike's been on this list of Hall
of Fame opportunity for coaches, and you know, I'm excited
because I don't think he's finished yet with any of
the football stuff that has gone on over the years,
because he's been a great coach here, great coach in
Green Bay. I'm sure he talked Bill Walsh off the
(42:45):
ledge a few times. In some of their plights, but
you know, he's done so much for the national football legue,
and a lot of people don't know that he was
on the Competition Committee, And I tried my darnedist because
I knew you were you had been on it. I
wanted to be on the competition committee because there's too
(43:06):
many defensive coaches that have injected their will. But I
always remember Mike being on the Competition Committee and trying
to keep the integrity of the game, the game itself, well,
like what what's this game really all about? And I
always felt like he had that in mind. And I
think he obviously deserves to be in the Hall of
(43:29):
Fame and will be because of some of the you know,
on the field antics he's had, the successes he's had,
but also off the field, just being able to keep
the integrity of the game well, uh, you know, he
protects it, or he protected it while he was there,
(43:49):
and uh, you know, well deserved and will we'll probably
be there at some point.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
Well, Jim, I appreciate that. I can't tell you how
much that means to me, but it was funny on
the competition committee in those days. You know, Shula was there.
George Young was there, who ran the Giants forever they
had they had and they were who was the rookie
coming in. I'm on the committee for a long time,
(44:19):
but I thought that was our job. What you mentioned,
the integrity of the game between the lines, the football
side of it. I think it's changed just a little bit.
I remember we go to meetings for a couple of
weeks someplace and bang out all these things talk about
before you presented it at the league meetings. And the
(44:42):
commissioner at the time was Paul Taglibu. He would come
for three days and sit there and might say say
a few things about the European leaguers something like that,
but he stayed away for the football stuff and I
appreciate that with him, and I think, now that's not
(45:02):
the way it is. Yeah, that's I think commissioner. I
think Roger comes in and he did it a little
bit with my last couple of years when I was
with Cleveland. He come to me and say, Mike, I
need you to vote this way on this, and I go, Roger,
I can't, you know, I can't do it. And it
would be like the Senate. Well, all of a sudden,
(45:22):
the guys get in little corners and they start going, well,
you vote for this, I'll vote for this, but I
couldn't do it. And the commission now and and other
people are really involved in some of the decisions that
are being made, and that's that's that's a change. But again, listen,
for those of you tuned in, I'm old and it was,
(45:42):
and I'm that was. That's an old coach talking right there.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
We've got a minute left, so I want to give
everybody one quick opportunity. Uh and I will take the
bait here and start about the importance of that person
beside us who's been with us in all of our lives.
For you, it's Joy for you, it's Kathy for me
at Sharon, how important it is to have that support
(46:08):
because what we've all done mean more in the way
more in the broadcast, you guys, in the coaching end
of things. But it takes a lot of time away
from family, the travel and all that stuff, eating sushi
when you don't want sushi. For Kriyanella, I just I
can't begin to ever thank her enough. And what's fun
(46:28):
is she's gotten to know Kathy really well. She's gotten
no joy from back in our days as being kids,
and it's great to have those kind of relationships after
all these years and all that stuff that's happened over time.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Yeah, and they don't even worry about whether they don't
see each other or communicate because they know exactly. They
definitely know. And there's the ultimate respect for especially because
Joy was an assistant coach, assistant coach's wife, and she
had the ultimate respect for Kathy because she was the
(47:00):
head coach's wife and a lot of the things that
she tried to do in Washington when I was the
head coach was exactly what Kathy had done and modeled
for her. And there's a lot of strong you have
to be independent. I think to be a spouse of
a football coach, you have to be strong, capable of
(47:24):
handling a lot of things around the house and outside
the house, and then have enough gumption to say, what
are you doing, Jim, what is this all about? When
you come home? And I think she's instilled that not
only of Joy, is instilled that attitude within our children
(47:47):
as well, and they're strong in some of the things
that they do. And they say, I don't think anybody
wishes the Redskins win now the commanders, because hey, you
didn't you know, my dad should still be there. What
are you guys talking about? You know? And so the fan,
the fan in them comes out, but the strength comes
(48:08):
out because of our because of our wives.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
There's no question. Kathy. I always say this to people.
She saved me because we've been married now fifty two years.
And I was kind of a knucklehead in college. I
was a wild child and she was the missionary. Unfortunately,
you know, she married me. That's that's the important part.
But you know what for the story that people might
(48:30):
not know. You know, I was the head coach for
twenty five years in the league, and the first couple
of years in Green Bay, on Mondays, she'd get pretty sick, Kathy,
and we couldn't figure out what it was. And then
she saw somebody and then that doctor had her psychologist
(48:50):
and it was the football. She'd cared so much about
it that on Mondays, particularly if we lost the game,
she was sat in the stands and all this kind
of stuff in Green Bay, and they say, how do
we do this? Then I don't want you sick all
the time. She goes and the doctor said, well, you
can't watch the games, you can't go. And so for
the last twenty two years she was never at a game,
(49:13):
and she'd come and sit in our box. She'd come
and sit in our box. The players would come on,
she'd route them on yell and then she'd leave. She'd
go get a ferry, go over to Widby Gore in
Green Bay. She'd go down to a theater, the only
one in the theater, and things like that. So she
has been unbelievable that way, but still enjoyed all this stuff.
(49:36):
Was firm. Now we sit around and the kids go,
do you remember when so and so did this? And
and Cathy goes, yeah, that was so good. I go,
when did that happen? And the typical line she says
it all the time. Oh, you were at training camp,
that's her line. You were at training camp that you
missed it. So but listen, we're all very fortunate. I
(50:00):
know both your wives they're stars, as is my young bride.
So we're very lucky.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
Yeah, as you said, we outkicked our coverage and then some.
I'll just never forget one of the opening times Sharon
and I. Let's see, we had just been married like
three months, two months we were playing somebody in the
Kingdom preseason game and I had that collapse lung. I
got thrown off the field. The guy decides to put it,
hold the marker up and put his body behind it
(50:28):
rather than drop it.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
So I go flying.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
Into this thing and it hit me in the side,
ended up collapsing my lung. So they take me to
the hospital. They sent the Seahawks sent somebody up into
the stands to find Sharon, and she was there with
her stepdad. So they brought them to the hospital where
I was in the process of having a chest tube set.
When you have a collapse lung, you know, so they
have to kind of cut open between your ribs and
all that stuff. So she's walking down the hall and
(50:53):
she hears me scream a couple of really nasty words
at the top of my lung. You me, And she
didn't turn around and leave, and she she stayed right
there with me. Ands same as Jim. Forty two years
we've been we've been together, and the same thing, you know,
something stupid happens to me and she's she's right there.
(51:16):
So I'm with you, guys. We couldn't have done this
without them. So and in fact, I left the house
today early to come and do this, and chance you're
gonna leave early just to go talk to them. I said, well, yeah,
it's kind of it's kind of a big deal. She said, Okay,
we'll tell them hello. So you've been told hello. And
for all of you out there, we hope you have
enjoyed this. I know we could sit around and in fact,
(51:37):
I know you guys have had breakfast a couple of
times recently and for twenty years, you and I have
talked about, hey, let's get the gals and we'll go
to dinner. We're gonna do that, or at the very least,
I'm going to join you guys for breakfast and that'll
become my breakfast, brunch, lunch, dinner, midnight snack because we'll
just sit around just like this, I know, and tell stories.
It is terrific. Jim, I get to see you every week.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
Michael.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
It's great to see you again, and I hope to
see much more of you as we save as we
have time.
Speaker 3 (52:04):
This has been special. Thank you both of you.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
Well, we have fun doing this and thanks to all
of you out there. We're going to keep doing it.
I hope. NASA, our producer is shaking his head. So
obviously there's seven or eight people who are listening, uh
not probably our wives.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
But at some point they hopefully they won't be voting.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
That's that's right, if they vote.
Speaker 2 (52:22):
Thanks to all of you, we'll see you next time.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
On Seahawks Stories, this has been one of the great
ones right here with z Man and Mike Holmgren. Take
care
You're listening to Seahawks stories, teaking you behind the scenes
with your favorite Seahawks. Set back to behind, Zorn, who's
back to pass as time looks for the left sideline,
throws a bomb down there. He's got a man in front.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
He makes the grab a travel at a thirty down
of the twenty.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
They'll never get him.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
He scores touched out.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Seahawks powered by Seahawks Dot Com and.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Zorn Later then perfectly a Rabel who goes in to
score on an eighty yard pass and run play. Now,
here's your host, the voice of the Seahawks, Steve Raebol
and Seahawks legend Jim Zorn. Raves, was that your only play?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Well, I was just gonna say, Mike, is you know
Mike Homegrin is with us for a second goal around here.
We've already done one part to his interview. We've got
a second time with him now. And I think I
was almost kind of reading your mind, like, Okay, is
there another play that we can that we can airview?
Something anything like a little six yard out anything. Well,
I had heard you are more of a blocker and
(00:57):
I cleared out a lot. Yeah, I be that guy.
Who'd run that post that you weren't supposed to throw.
We talked about in the first episode. I was that
guy running down there to get that safety out of
the way.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Not only safety, but they had to doub well, they
had to double cover you. So you took two guys
with you, and everyone else caught.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Past, and Steve caught. He's in the Hall of Fame
for crying out. This is funny. Now. The other day,
we had our Thanksgiving game right here, and we were
talking about Thanksgiving games and I remembered we played in
nineteen eighty in Dallas on Thanksgiving Day.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I'll never forget the game.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
It was like the third game in eleven days, and
we were just beat up. And there's a whole lot
of stories involved in that. But the way that game
started was they were going to roll up to Steve's
side and so they had the corner roll up in
his face safety over the top, so he's basically getting
double coverage and my side, the cornerback was just dropping
off like eight, ten, twelve yards. We threw about three
(01:51):
out routes until they finally said, well, listen, I guess
we can't do just let him stand out there. So
we're going to have to start, so they mixed it
up a little more rolled up. I never caught another
pass the rest of the day, the rest of the day,
but it was kind of funny for a moment there.
I saw what Steve would be up against every week,
and that is, you know, coverages, rolled up, linebackers rolling,
(02:14):
getting outside and getting up underneath him.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
He would catch some games he would catch twelve balls
and the next game he'd catch two. Really because they'd
take it. They would just double him, and we had
to move him around to get him, try to get
him singled and things like motion helped.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
And you know, it's funny because in the previous episode
Jim was talking about how discipline the quarterback has to
be and it's all rhythm and timing. If memory serves
me correctly, he moved around a little bit, didn't he?
Would you talk about that a little bit?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Well, our whole offense after about the second year. I
think our offense was based on the sprint draw and
because Jim was so good at rolling out of the pocket.
He was a left hander, so he could throw to
his left side. The ball, contrary to what people say,
has a different spin on it. And I know because
you know, I'm looking at it and all of a
sudden it's kind of coming down in a different way.
(03:07):
But that was part of the deal. And he and
Sherman Smith was so good. Sherman was our running back,
and so Sherman would get the either get that deep
hand off on the sprint draw or the playfake to him,
and then Jim rolls out and we based a lot
of our offense off of that, and then we could
run all kinds of rout combinations behind it. And but
(03:28):
to give that defense the same look, and he was
he was amazing. I mean, there was every so often
on on what's it called now it's called X and
I think it was at one time Twitter, but it's
called X. I can't sure they do that. I know, okay,
there's it's just dumb. But and I'm not, truly, I'm
not smart enough to keep up with that stuff. But
(03:48):
every so often there are these things will pop up
and somebody put on their an opening to like a
Monday night game that that Howard Cosell and Don Meredith
and all those and so they were showing highlights and
they were talking about it, and it just reminded me
how how skilled Jim was in getting outside, rolling out
(04:09):
and he'd pull it down and run it either. There
were a couple of those highlights. I remember you'd take
off and run for thirty forty yards and it's not
like you were a speed demon or anything, but you
just you just knew how to do that.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
You know, on this on that action that he's talking about,
would you set up afterward or would you keep going?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
We had both. I could set up, I could go,
I could give the ball, I could keep the ball,
and I could run naked. I could run the other way.
I coped go the other way, and I made I
told Jerry when we first started that series, I said,
I don't want you to call any play to my
left hand. I just want you to call the play.
(04:45):
And because I'm going to show you in practice and
in games that I can actually throw as well to
my right as I could to my left, I made
myself do that because I didn't want him to, you know,
always have to lean towards the left and the way
I was running. So we did that and one of
the best passes I threw was against the Denver Broncos
(05:10):
one year. We beat you know, and you could run
deeper patterns because you know the fake draw. And Jerry
wouldn't let me come towards the line of scrimmage because
he said, you have from your fate all the way
to the sideline. You know, we're gonna run twenty three
yard routes. Awesome, you know, and we ate up a
lot of yardage running twenty twenty three yard routes.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
How important for you as a head coach to have
coaches like Jim And I'm thinking of your staff and
you had a bunch of guys who were really terrific
football players as well as being teachers. But how important
for those guys that really had been there at the
NFL level and done well.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
I think against everything. Yeah, you know, in Jim's case,
you know he Matt knew him, the coach, the other
quarterbacks knew him, knew what he had done before he
says anything in the room. There's a respect there just
from who he was, what he did. Okay, and then
you couple it with okay, he's a good teacher. He
(06:11):
can show me, he's a good person. He relates to me.
That's what you need, and that's what he was. And
I was fortunate that way because I had guys on
my staff who were good players. But that in itself,
because you see it now. There are a lot that
you see it now all over and I'm the old
(06:33):
man so but I've seen it the last few years.
You get guys in there that it's not automatic. That
doesn't make you necessarily a great coach. You know, you
have to be able to communicate. You're not just a
yeller and a screamer. You know, you have to be
able to relate to the player. And like I said before,
(06:54):
I was very fortunate to have guys. But that was
one of jim strengths, I think.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
And I'd love to when he said that he would
step in when a mistake would happen. You'd see it
or something was slow, but he was always there and
he he saw from the quarterback perspective, we're not going
to be able to complete this pass if you run
the route this slow or this way, or you know
(07:20):
we need you know, you can't whiff or we're scrambling.
And I thought he did a really good job of
paying attention during practice to where you know, not many
things were left to and if he didn't catch it
at that moment, he would catch it on video. Hey,
(07:41):
what happened there? You know? There was a lot of
questions and answers along the way.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
And Jim's when he mentioned the fact that he's left handed,
and he was great coiners left. But he told the
guy called call him anywhere, go I go to my right.
I can throw the same way. I was reminded, getting
back to Brett fav for just a second, that we
had a goal line play and Jim remembers it sprint
right option. We did it with a forty nine ers.
Jerry Rice must have caught I don't know how many
(08:09):
touchdowns on that Dwight Clark in the famous catch that
was sprint right option. So Steve Mariucci was on our staff,
a great coach, and he goes, let's run it to
the left, and it's a fast thing. You got to
come out and bang. You got to turn your shoulder.
There's a way to do that if you're right handed.
(08:29):
Some guys can do it, some guys can't. Brett Favre, No,
that didn't work so well. So I go, no, we
can't go come on and there all the coach goes,
we got to try it because we're doing right handed
all the time. All of a sudden, Okay, we called
it in practice. He came out, threw it behind the
receiver by five yards and you're only you're not that
(08:50):
far away.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
He couldn't.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
I said, okay, you all seen it. I never want
to see that play run again. Don't even talk to
me about you know, so a quarterback they can go
do both things. That'd be great.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
There's a there was a play and when he's talking about,
you know, the quarterback's arm right handed when you get
in a three by one formation. In the NFL, Mike
used to always say, hey, it doesn't matter we're playing
from the middle of the field because when he was
coaching in college and when I was in coaching in college,
you know, the hashes are really wide, and there really
is a way to spread people out and not get
(09:26):
bunched in. Well, on the right hand, I'm still thinking
we need to spread people out so we're on the
right hash. And so Mike calls this play we had.
It was it was four verticals called Dancer, and he
calls the formation into the boundary in the three receivers
are into Mike. Mike, Mike, and I'm on the phone
(09:46):
with him, Mike, you just called it into the boundary.
Flip it over, Jim, be quiet. He calls it into
the boundary. Matt drops back, and you know, the three
receivers are too they're too close to each other. Matt
throws a touchdown pass from about the forty five yard line,
and I, you know, from that point on, I kept
(10:06):
my mouth shut when it came to how he was,
where he was going to call, how he was going
to call the play, because he proved to me that
you know, in the NFL, the you know, there is
no boundary, the boundary side we you know, we think
there there is, and we want sometimes you do, want
to spread people out. But he didn't care. He wanted
(10:29):
to throw to Matt's armside and it didn't matter to him,
and maybe he saw a thought of coverage into the
boundary that you know, it didn't scare him, and he
called it and it was a touchdown. Well, shut me up.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
And as this relates to our communication during the game,
I had a rule that Haskell was upstairs. Jim was upstairs. Yeah,
coaches upstairs, coaches on the field, okay, but the coaches
upstairs had you know, Jim was looking at coverage. He was,
he was looking a lot of stuff, and then I
expected him to give information to Gil. So then at
(11:07):
one point when the defense is going on, then I
can gather all the information together and kind of Trey
perhaps called a game better. But I didn't want to
hear his voice, I said, And I tell him, I said,
Gill's the only one I want to hear. If you
have something to say, say it to him. Because I
turn on I flip on the defensive side and it
(11:29):
was like chaos. They're all talking about that. No, that's
all great, I said, how did they get anything done?
But Jim, every once in a while he couldn't help it. Mike, Mike, Jim, Jim,
you know the rules.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Go back to your room.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
It was fun. Oh, it was really fun.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
There was so you came into Seattle here in ninety nine,
I believe right, and didn't take long. I remember one
of the first things you said was, we're not here
just to make like we're not here to make the
playoffs this year. We're not. We're here to win over time.
We're here to make the try to make a championship
run every single season. And didn't take all that long,
(12:07):
and there you are, and we're standing in Detroit and
we're getting set to take on the Pittsburgh Steelers. Did
you have a real sense for how big a deal
that was for Seattle? I mean, you'd been through it
twice with Green Bay, but for Seattle, we had never
had anything quite like that being in.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
The Super Bowl. Yeah, it was. It was not only
for Seattle, but for me and for for our staff.
And we'd worked so hard to get there. And I
remember Peter King asking me, do you feel because it
took us? You know, it took us seven years. It
took us a while to get there. But as we
(12:47):
were getting better, he goes, do you feel vindicated now?
Because you know I took some eight early on? And
I didn't. I just was happy. I was. I said,
they worked hard. I loved our team. You know, I
thought we played hard all year. We had a great
championship game, and to be there, to be there was special.
(13:10):
It was funny. You know, you talk about going into
a new place and Jim experiences in Washington. You go
in there and you analyze you to try and analyze
your team. What do I have? And I did that
here and then a couple of years later. I mean,
Cortes Kennedy was around, great person, great football player. He
(13:37):
came up and apologized to me and he goes, I'm like,
I'm sorry. I go, what are you sorry about? Well,
when I came in, there were guys that have been
here a while, and you know they're not gonna you
have a different coach than the previous coach or different
rules and whatever, and not everybody bought in. I know that,
(13:58):
and so little by little it takes some time to
then get the team just the way you want it
so you have a shot at the super Bowl. And Cortes,
bless his heart, I mean, he was one of the
best players we had. But I remember that we played
Buffalo in the last game of the year I think
my second year, and they killed us, and our guys
(14:20):
are packed the bags. They didn't play. And that's what
he was. He was apologizing for that. And so it
takes a while. It takes a little while to get
everyone believing. And so when we got to Detroit. That
was one of the great things about that team. They
all went through that and they they thought, Okay, here
(14:40):
we go. We got a shot.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
I remember, I don't know if you do Jim. After
our first season seventy six, I think we're flying back
from Philly. I think we played our last game of
my rookie year in Philly and we're coming back. And Jack,
unlike Mike who said in the front and had the
seat beside him all all the time that was empty,
Jack sat in the back with the coaches and the
(15:05):
staff were back there. The oldest players sat in the
front and then worked their way back, so we were
still young players, so we were back behind the curtain
and all that. So on the flight back, Jack was
bringing individuals back to his seat, back to the back,
and like you said, when somebody sits down next to you,
(15:25):
usually they're in trouble for something. Well, one of the
guys comes up, and I think it was Fergie, came
up and grabbed me and he says, hey, Jack wants
to see it in the back. I thought, oh my god,
what I'm done. My careers lasted one year. It wasn't
a very good year, except for that touchdown pass you
through me in Minnesota. I said, that's it. We're all done.
Now I can go on with my life's work. And
(15:47):
so he brings me back there, and you know, we're
talking about stuff. And he finally says, he said, look
up there, look all the way up to the front
of the plane. And I said, okay, yeah, he said,
those guys won't be here. He said, those guys, they're
the veterans, they're many of them were in the allocation.
And I had several of those players before that game
in Philly say, hey, you know, this is the last game.
(16:08):
Don't get hurt, don't bust a grape. Just you know,
let's let's get home. And then you got the offseason
and Jack said, I know that. He said, they're not
going to be here, but he said that core you guys,
you and Z. And that's when he had his famous
saying to me. He said, you catch the ball just
as well as large and just not as often. And
I thought, well that okay, I think that's a backhanded comment,
but okay, a compliment. But coaches see that, they they
(16:34):
understand and they know the guys that that core group
that you know, you you got to have to build around.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Yeah, I think it's true, and I think you know
that's that's one of the pleasures, one of the joys
of coaching, if you can ever get to that point
where you you're all, you're all you feel this and
you know this. You're all in it together. There's no outliers,
and so that's not easy. That's that's that's the challenge.
(17:01):
That's the challenge you have. But one's quick story. I
have a bigger challenge. This is off the subject. We're
flying somewhere in Seattle. We're going on a trip. And uh,
I had a thing. You know, a lot of long trips.
I like to have a good meal, and we were
(17:23):
having and I like the everyone a while, let's shoot
back to Thanksgiving. I like turkey, stuffing, mashed potatoes, the
whole deal, you know. And uh, and then I could
sleep and do whatever.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
This was a football trip, football trip.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
They give me the play, they give me this the platter, and.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
I'm not quite sure what it is.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Are we coming or going? We're going, Okay, we're going.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
We're flying vegetables and sushi and and I had never
had any, and I go, what in the world? I
So I call up Sam Amps. He's now a big
shot in the He was my trainer, and he sat
in the seat you don't want to sit in, and
(18:08):
I said, hey, what is this I point to my
plate and he goes, well, you know, we've been talking
to people about a healthier you know, way to go here,
and this is really good energy stuff. I said, all right,
if you ever decide to change food again on this plane,
(18:32):
it goes through me first. Is that clear? Yes? But
I said no, no, no, butts, no butts. Now would someone
get me a cheeseburger or something? Is there? Is it possible?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Oh? She?
Speaker 3 (18:46):
You know that's a That was a.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
We're on the way to play a team in the
National Football League, but we have to have the food, right,
and that is that is kind of the uh necessary
those are the necessary details of a head football coach.
It's not so much well for Mike, it was hey,
something's different, right, and uh, you better you better run
(19:11):
it through the head coach because any little changes, like
any change like that, you get you get nervous about
what what is going to happen and you're not you know,
you don't know how to answer it. Eventually, Mike was
going to have to answer, what kind of food do
we have on the plane?
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Well?
Speaker 1 (19:29):
What it affects you as the head coach. It's probably
going to affect the players.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
They're going to look at well loves that I thought.
I guess, I guess they were the sushi group. I
wasn't so I guess I would have gotten some pushback
on that, But no, I was. I think all the
little details I remember, Yeah, I remember in Green Bay, Uh,
you know, our our meeting on Saturday night. Saturday night,
we'd have a meeting. Then we go in and have
(19:55):
you know, sandwiches, cheeseburgers, whatever, soup, you know, salads. It
was a long table of stuff and guys could have
a nice something to eat before they went to bed.
In Green Bay, when I got there talking about changing
the culture, there was a gentleman who was the financial
guy controller. You know, green Bay was run a little differently.
(20:18):
There's no owner. So he would stand by the big
bowl of soup. Because I liked soup. There was a
big bowl of soup there, and he would stand by
and see how many players got a bowl of soup.
And then if it wasn't financially worth it, he takes
(20:39):
soup off the menu and I go the next time
we're there, there's no soup, I go wear the soup. Well,
last week we only had thirteen players have soup. And
it costs this amount. I go. Stop. He'd been there
forever I go. You will put on the table what
I want. That's how we're going to do this. Okay,
(21:00):
But I said no, no, no, no, you know, and
so you have to these all these little weird things
come up aside from coaching the football, which you really
loved to do. Then there's a lot of little weird things.
You know.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
How did it all go? First of all, he became
a head coach with Washington? Yes, did you what kind
of advice did you give?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Him?
Speaker 1 (21:20):
If any, if you had an opportunity to, did you,
considering I don't know, considering the organization has been through
some tough times, did you maybe advise him, Hey, Jim,
this might not be the best place for you or.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
No, no, I I you know Jim. Jim had head
coached a long time and so he knew. But I
did give some advice to Dan Snyder, you know, the
owner of the Redskins. He so, uh, you know, I
recommended Jim for the He talked to me and I
recommended Jim for the job. And then as the thing
was going, we talked and he was in it, and
(21:55):
you know, he got a good shot. I'm in Hawaii
with Kathy and I get a phone call and Stan Snyder.
He goes, I hired your boy. I go, what, yeah, Zorn,
I'm hiring Zorn as the head coach. I said, way
to go. That's great. He'll do a great job for you.
(22:16):
And honestly, goodness, he goes, I hope, so you know,
I go, no, no, no, there's no hoping. He's going to
get this thing done. But I got to tell you
something because I knew Dan Snyder. We had had a
little tya tay earlier in my career, and I said,
instead of hurting him, you got to help him. You're
the owner. You got to help him be good. What
do you mean? And he got at, you know, says
(22:37):
he would. I said, you've had coaches, you've had You've
fired coaches every two years. It's not working. He's a
good man, he's a good coach. Help him, don't hurt him. Okay,
you know. And then that was it. But then listening
to Jim in his time there, and it was an
interesting time for him certainly, but it was it was
(22:57):
a tough organization. I'll let you speak to it, but
it was I think from Afar. I don't know how
they ran it, but it was a tough organization for
a coach, and it can be you can go in
a you can go in a place that it's going
to be hard, you know, and uh not everyone's the same.
Not every organization is the same.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And I and I had, uh you know, I was
I felt like I was ready to be the head
coach of the Redskins. And I would say this that
my rule of thumb was if I didn't have the answer,
if I didn't really know, I was going to revert
to what would Mike do? What would Mike do in
this situation? What would he How would he fashion this?
(23:37):
And so you know, I had a lot of things
that are you know, already in my mind how how
we could win. But when I when I struggled with
I just said, well it worked for Mike. And Mike
had developed the plans over the years, and I'm sure
he I didn't even I didn't know how many plans
(23:59):
he had thrown out or how many thoughts he had
thrown out, but I did know the ones that he
hung his hat on, and those are the things that
I tried to hang my hat on when I didn't
really have the answer, and a lot of the things
were already there. There are certain things that have to happen.
But yeah, it was quite a thrill to be actually
(24:21):
making the decision on the direction of a team to
try to build a championship team. Yeah, that was a
thrill and I enjoyed that. I enjoyed it. I felt
like I was in my element.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
You know what, you guys know this that a successful franchise.
You have a coach, and you have a general manager
typically and or a president, and then maybe an owner.
An owner everyone just kept except Green Bay. If that
group of people aren't shooting, aren't rowing the boat in
(24:55):
the same direction, it's hard. It's hard. It's hard enough
to to win the game. But if you go into
a situation where Okay, the general manager or the president
is I wouldn't do that, or he's telling the owner,
you know, he messed. You know, if you get a
situation like that, it's really really hard to win in
(25:15):
this league. You seen it too many organizations.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
And I would say to add to that, Mike always
had wanted a healthy organization. You know, up front, this
is how we're going to do it, and that's how
we did it. There was no little side deals going on,
and that that was one of the things that I realized,
you know, if there was going to ever be a struggle,
(25:39):
it was because somebody took their own initiative to do
something different than the direction that we were going in.
And when that happens, Mike handled it right up front
right now. I mean he didn't he didn't wait for
the off season to clean things up. He was handling
things as they if they ever came. But it was
(26:02):
a really healthy situation to be here, the healthiest organization
that I'd ever been a part of. And I'd been
in some dysfunction, uh, beyond you know, beyond coaching here
in Seattle, I was, I was in some interesting situations.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Did you think that, Well, when it came to an end,
did you think, well, that's it now, I guess my
opportunity is is gone. Uh, you know, this may be
my my only chance to be a head coach. And
how how was that you you actually were able to
walk away from this opportunity here and you went off
to Cleveland and became president of the organization. But how difficult?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Was that? It was difficult? And I still feel that
I have unfinished business, you know. I I you know,
I feel like I should be able to uh. I
you know, I didn't get bad just because I you know,
I got let go from from that particular team and
(27:04):
so but I did go to a couple other teams
that had some dysfunction. Uh And that was that made
it even more difficult to be thought of a guy
that had some steadiness, some some innovative stuff or some
you know, some stuff that could work. Yeah, it was
(27:25):
that that was tough. So I still feel that way,
you know, in in in the football world, unfinished business.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
You know. It's it's funny you you people ask me
on occasion, you one of the good things, what are
the bad things? What do you remember? Those types of things?
And our super Bowl against Pittsburgh. It's been a long
time since we played that game, you know. And for
(27:52):
the most part, yeah, it's it's you know, and then
every once in a while someone will talk, Oh, I
think the officials. I'll meet some guy in the airport
and somewhey, I'll come up and goes you know, I
don't think they handle it right. You got a raw deal,
Like when are you talking about the super Bowl in Pittsburgh.
I said, yeah, but I'm over that now. But I'm
glad you brought it up, because now I'm going to
(28:13):
go rip apart from the book I was reading, you know,
So you don't you don't forget stuff. And if you're
if you have a lot of pride and and and
feel good about how you teach, how you coach, and
and confidence in your ability to get it done, and
then you get the feeling like I'm not they're not
(28:36):
letting me. For however that comes down, They're not letting me.
And you try and fight through it, fight through it,
you know. And I made this statement to you know
here near the end. There were a couple of times
near the end that and I've told this to people.
It's hard enough to win the game, the battle on
the field, that's it's that's hard, and you work hard.
(29:01):
If you're also fighting that battles in the building, it's
almost too much.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, you know, Yeah, no, he's telling the truth.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
One of the things it does is it shows us
the remarkable relationship between Pete Carroll and John Schneider. Absolutely
guys who have made it work. Now, this is what
fourteen years, I guess from the draft, through the free
agency and all that kind of stuff. But we also
don't see that kind of longevity anymore in this league.
I mean on both sides of you know, general managers, coaches,
(29:33):
coaches get fired after a year less than a season.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Crazy, it's crazy, yeah, yeah, and that's not fair at all. No,
And you know, and actually firing people on your staff.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
You know, I.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
I hired people, they moved their families from point A
to come here. I always said, it's my obligation to
make that work. I brought him here. And if something,
if they're not, then you work with that person and
then try and fix it instead of just saying the
(30:10):
only the only group that I fired, I fired, you know,
Steve said, well, and that defensive staff. And Steve came
into me and said, Mike, you got to let me go.
I'm not helping you. And he was one of my
I loved him, but it was true. It was there
was a breakdown defensively and he came in and said,
I said, Steve, he goes no, no, no, you know, it's okay,
(30:33):
you gotta let me go. And so that otherwise otherwise
I didn't I didn't do that. But you see other
coaches that have done that with their staffs. They're always
turning people over and then now guys getting fired without
even finishing a year. Yeah, come on, I mean.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
You know, toughest decision you ever had to make as
a coach, oh boy, generally about probably about a player
that it was time to let go or something like that.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Maybe, Yeah, there we was. There was a few of them,
So I always thought because of how I reacted when
they I got cut.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
You know, I was with the Cardinals and I really
had a good training camp and I said, I'm going
to make this finally, make make a team, make pros.
And I saw the coach coming towards me after our
last practice. The final cutdown day was that day, and
I go and I ran into the I ran into
(31:40):
the training room. I ran away from him, and he
started coming to the training room. I ran in the bathroom.
I mean he chased me around. He didn't run, but
he had to find me to tell me I was cut.
And so so whenever I had to do that with
a player that I knew had given me everything, that
(32:00):
was hard. So that was that was the least favorite
part of my job. Necessary and the players typically where
they understood, but it was still hard. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Yeah, those guys, they come in young, and you know,
in many cases, this is their dream and this is
in many cases kind of all they have. This is
what they've hung their their young adult life on, is
to try to make it in the National Football League.
And somebody has to make that call. And unfortunately, along
with all of the accolades of being a head coach
(32:35):
for both of you guys, and being successful at what
you do, comes that difficult decision where you're deciding somebody's future.
Quite frankly, right, and well, it must be difficult.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
It is hard. But sometimes they don't see the player
doesn't see that they were just they were just glad
to be there, you know what I mean, And you're
cutting them and they don't they can't believe it. But
they're they're not up. They're not really going in the
same direction as as you were going. The hard part,
(33:05):
and I think Mike, Mike would say it is he
gave everything he had. He knew that he was gonna
be a great addition to this team, and then you
had to you had to let him go. Uh when
he had that right attitude that those are the guys
you're looking for too, that will say, Man, I want
to do anything. I'm going to do everything I can
do to help us win on this team or help
(33:27):
help us, you know, let me be a part of
this team, and then you let him go. That's the
harder part. The guys that are just hanger, you know,
the guys that are just there. Uh, they don't work
hard enough to be a pro at that time. And
the players know it, you know, they can see.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
It, both of you, guys. To California kids, right to
California guys. You come up here, you as a player,
and then in your coaching career, Mike, you come up
here as a coach, and for the most part, yes,
going away to different places and worked and coached and
did all those things, and you end up coming back
up here. And a goodly deal of your families are
(34:07):
are here as well. What's that all about.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Well, it's a great place to live. I tell people
now that they didn't fire me so I could stay
in the city, you know. So but it you know,
and we're fortunate because well my kids are here, my
grandkids are here in the area, and so and and
people that I remember, we get we draft players from
(34:30):
Florida or Alabama or someplace and Seattle. I talked to
them on the phone Seattle, and honest to goodness, I
think some of them you look at a map and
they say Seattle is there, and they go, oh, my goodness,
that's no, that's Alaska. No, that's Seattle. You know. And
so but then when you get up here, even for
(34:52):
a California kid, you know, it will rains a lot.
I hear people down there tell me all the storm,
it rains a lot. I said, it's good. We keep
the riff raft. We keep the people out of there.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
You know.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Don't like the rain, no, But it's the trees, the water,
the people. You fall in love with the place, I think.
And so you know, I never I never thought about
coaching in Seattle or Seattle very much. But then you
get to know the place, and it's been good for me,
(35:22):
and the people were great to us and our family,
and I'm fortunate to have my kids up here.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Now you're always going to be Jim Zorn, that first
quarterback of the Seattle Seahawks franchise. That's I mean, that's
really something to hang your hat on, you know, Yoda
all that he did Hall of Fame deserves it all
great credit and all that. There's only one first quarterback
of a franchise. How have you carried that all these
(35:49):
years with you? And what's it meant to you? The family,
they're all up here as well.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, I think in the beginning, and you can, you
can relate to this. The fans were so great to us,
still are obviously, but and I think it's the it's
the attitude of the twelfth the twelves that make it
really special or you know, they they remember us for what,
(36:15):
you know, for whatever reason. And I don't know how
many young people know that you were a star wide
receiver for the Seahawks unless you say it every every
time you go, you get on the radio, Hey remember me,
But you don't. And yet you are, you know you
Steve Rabel. I think you could say the same thing.
They think of you and they think synonymous Seattle Seahawks.
(36:40):
But I would say it's the fans that we used
to walk in, yeah with we had the Kingdome. Well,
when we came in to the parking lot, we just
parked with the fans. You know, Hey, how's it going, Jim,
Hey have a great game? Yeah, hey, thanks, and you're
just walking in with the fans. Uh do you have
(37:01):
your ticket? And I'm one of the players. Okay, you know, go.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
We didn't even have the closest spots to the gate
to get into the stadium. Those were like first season
ticket olders. We parked out in that lot back there,
and we got four or five of us walking in
and people just walking with.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Us, and it was it was great. I hope you
played well today. Oh we do too. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Well, I was spoiled because obviously I had my own spot,
and I had a police escort to the game and
all that stuff. And then when I broadcast games there, Yeah,
I'm in, I'm out in the North forty parking. I go,
what happened in my parking spot? Yeah, what happened? I
come over here to do this thing today, just to
kind of where do I park? There's thousands of cars there.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
I got to you know, I remember we did a
game at the LA Coliseum, you and I and uh
we uh we had to park way the hell away
from that kind of entrance where you got up to
the press box. They're the older press box.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
And I remember us schlepping across the parking lot, and
I thought, I'm watching Mike. This is this is not
what Mike has No you had over there.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Get spoiled. You get spoiled.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
That bus would drop us off right there at the
top of that tunnel, and you just get right in
and you're in the front seat of the bus. And
when you're when you sit down, you point and here
we go.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
No, I know I.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Would say this that. And today, you know, the players
have a different way to park and you know, you know,
coaches have a different way to do it. There's a
little more everything's secured in private and all that kind
of stuff. But the fans still appreciate the Hawks much
the same way as they did when when we played.
(38:38):
It's it's it's a different you know, it's a different way.
They used to put up posters and they might put
a little color, you know, they might wear Seahawk colors,
but not full outfits and and alter egos face right,
there's a lot of alter egos out there today and
they are just as enthusiastic about the Hawks as the
(38:59):
things were when we play. You can see it, you
can see it in their faces.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Do you get to many games, Mike, No, I don't.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
I really don't. I And I'll tell you. One of
the things is I love the team. I watch it
on television. I got to talk about it during the week.
But the radio station that I worked for, they had
a game where you had they invited donor big money people.
(39:26):
They want me there to say a load of people.
So Kathy and I went. So we're in a box.
It was the first time I had been in a
box or come back since I coached.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
It was a few years.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
And so I'm in the box, I'm talking to people,
and I hear there's big roar and Pete coming up.
Pete Pete is coming out on the field and there
people are going crazy. And then I go. I go
to Kathy, I go, they never did that for me.
She goes, yes they did, Yes they did. I go,
(40:00):
they did. I'd walk I don't know where I was
when I'd walk out on the field, but I was.
I was. I was focused and I didn't even hear
any of that stuff. So but then I realized. What
I realized is that I can be in one of
those boxes, lux of nice box, flood and all that stuff,
and you're you're watching the game. But I so much
(40:22):
more enjoyed being down on the field that that, uh,
someone else can do it, and you know I can
just I can watch it.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
You know.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
It was great, a great moment last year when both
you and Matthew went in and then Sean later in
the season went into the Ring of Honor, and so
I get the honor of being the guy down there
on stage to kind of introduce you guys, and it
was just such a treat. I mean, going back to
the first days I was there, when Pete was inducted
(40:53):
into the Ring of Honor two days before he died,
and so to see all these guys and then finally it,
you know, it took a little, but finally to get
you up there and Matthew up there, it was just great.
I hope you had an opportunity to really feel the
fans that night, because they were, at least from what
I could hear, they were at the top of their game.
They were really grateful to you and your staffs, Jim included,
(41:17):
for being a part of this community for so long
and for doing what you did for the CEO.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Well, I can't tell you how much that meant to
me and or my family, you know, and I'd go
to games. I see Jim's names up there. There are
famous people up there. You know, I said, how cool
would that be? How cool would that be? And then
when we finally got to do it, and then you
were the one that gave it to me, you know,
(41:46):
because we have a history as well, it was just special.
It was really special, and I could feel it from
the fans. And this year I got some tickets for
one of my grandsons for his birthday. They came to
a game and they sent me a picture. You know,
everyone's got phones they can take I have a phone
with a camera. I don't know how to do it,
(42:07):
but and they were right underneath that the Ring of
honor name there and that that's pretty cool. Yeah when
your grandkids think, look at that's my grandfather.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
So no special.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
And you know, Mike's been on this list of Hall
of Fame opportunity for coaches, and you know, I'm excited
because I don't think he's finished yet with any of
the football stuff that has gone on over the years,
because he's been a great coach here, great coach in
Green Bay. I'm sure he talked Bill Walsh off the
(42:45):
ledge a few times. In some of their plights, but
you know, he's done so much for the national football legue,
and a lot of people don't know that he was
on the Competition Committee, And I tried my darnedist because
I knew you were you had been on it. I
wanted to be on the competition committee because there's too
(43:06):
many defensive coaches that have injected their will. But I
always remember Mike being on the Competition Committee and trying
to keep the integrity of the game, the game itself, well,
like what what's this game really all about? And I
always felt like he had that in mind. And I
think he obviously deserves to be in the Hall of
(43:29):
Fame and will be because of some of the you know,
on the field antics he's had, the successes he's had,
but also off the field, just being able to keep
the integrity of the game well, uh, you know, he
protects it, or he protected it while he was there,
(43:49):
and uh, you know, well deserved and will we'll probably
be there at some point.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
Well, Jim, I appreciate that. I can't tell you how
much that means to me, but it was funny on
the competition committee in those days. You know, Shula was there.
George Young was there, who ran the Giants forever they
had they had and they were who was the rookie
coming in. I'm on the committee for a long time,
(44:19):
but I thought that was our job. What you mentioned,
the integrity of the game between the lines, the football
side of it. I think it's changed just a little bit.
I remember we go to meetings for a couple of
weeks someplace and bang out all these things talk about
before you presented it at the league meetings. And the
(44:42):
commissioner at the time was Paul Taglibu. He would come
for three days and sit there and might say say
a few things about the European leaguers something like that,
but he stayed away for the football stuff and I
appreciate that with him, and I think, now that's not
(45:02):
the way it is. Yeah, that's I think commissioner. I
think Roger comes in and he did it a little
bit with my last couple of years when I was
with Cleveland. He come to me and say, Mike, I
need you to vote this way on this, and I go, Roger,
I can't, you know, I can't do it. And it
would be like the Senate. Well, all of a sudden,
(45:22):
the guys get in little corners and they start going, well,
you vote for this, I'll vote for this, but I
couldn't do it. And the commission now and and other
people are really involved in some of the decisions that
are being made, and that's that's that's a change. But again, listen,
for those of you tuned in, I'm old and it was,
(45:42):
and I'm that was. That's an old coach talking right there.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
We've got a minute left, so I want to give
everybody one quick opportunity. Uh and I will take the
bait here and start about the importance of that person
beside us who's been with us in all of our lives.
For you, it's Joy for you, it's Kathy for me
at Sharon, how important it is to have that support
(46:08):
because what we've all done mean more in the way
more in the broadcast, you guys, in the coaching end
of things. But it takes a lot of time away
from family, the travel and all that stuff, eating sushi
when you don't want sushi. For Kriyanella, I just I
can't begin to ever thank her enough. And what's fun
(46:28):
is she's gotten to know Kathy really well. She's gotten
no joy from back in our days as being kids,
and it's great to have those kind of relationships after
all these years and all that stuff that's happened over time.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Yeah, and they don't even worry about whether they don't
see each other or communicate because they know exactly. They
definitely know. And there's the ultimate respect for especially because
Joy was an assistant coach, assistant coach's wife, and she
had the ultimate respect for Kathy because she was the
(47:00):
head coach's wife and a lot of the things that
she tried to do in Washington when I was the
head coach was exactly what Kathy had done and modeled
for her. And there's a lot of strong you have
to be independent. I think to be a spouse of
a football coach, you have to be strong, capable of
(47:24):
handling a lot of things around the house and outside
the house, and then have enough gumption to say, what
are you doing, Jim, what is this all about? When
you come home? And I think she's instilled that not
only of Joy, is instilled that attitude within our children
(47:47):
as well, and they're strong in some of the things
that they do. And they say, I don't think anybody
wishes the Redskins win now the commanders, because hey, you
didn't you know, my dad should still be there. What
are you guys talking about? You know? And so the fan,
the fan in them comes out, but the strength comes
(48:08):
out because of our because of our wives.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
There's no question. Kathy. I always say this to people.
She saved me because we've been married now fifty two years.
And I was kind of a knucklehead in college. I
was a wild child and she was the missionary. Unfortunately,
you know, she married me. That's that's the important part.
But you know what for the story that people might
(48:30):
not know. You know, I was the head coach for
twenty five years in the league, and the first couple
of years in Green Bay, on Mondays, she'd get pretty sick, Kathy,
and we couldn't figure out what it was. And then
she saw somebody and then that doctor had her psychologist
(48:50):
and it was the football. She'd cared so much about
it that on Mondays, particularly if we lost the game,
she was sat in the stands and all this kind
of stuff in Green Bay, and they say, how do
we do this? Then I don't want you sick all
the time. She goes and the doctor said, well, you
can't watch the games, you can't go. And so for
the last twenty two years she was never at a game,
(49:13):
and she'd come and sit in our box. She'd come
and sit in our box. The players would come on,
she'd route them on yell and then she'd leave. She'd
go get a ferry, go over to Widby Gore in
Green Bay. She'd go down to a theater, the only
one in the theater, and things like that. So she
has been unbelievable that way, but still enjoyed all this stuff.
(49:36):
Was firm. Now we sit around and the kids go,
do you remember when so and so did this? And
and Cathy goes, yeah, that was so good. I go,
when did that happen? And the typical line she says
it all the time. Oh, you were at training camp,
that's her line. You were at training camp that you
missed it. So but listen, we're all very fortunate. I
(50:00):
know both your wives they're stars, as is my young bride.
So we're very lucky.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
Yeah, as you said, we outkicked our coverage and then some.
I'll just never forget one of the opening times Sharon
and I. Let's see, we had just been married like
three months, two months we were playing somebody in the
Kingdom preseason game and I had that collapse lung. I
got thrown off the field. The guy decides to put it,
hold the marker up and put his body behind it
(50:28):
rather than drop it.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
So I go flying.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
Into this thing and it hit me in the side,
ended up collapsing my lung. So they take me to
the hospital. They sent the Seahawks sent somebody up into
the stands to find Sharon, and she was there with
her stepdad. So they brought them to the hospital where
I was in the process of having a chest tube set.
When you have a collapse lung, you know, so they
have to kind of cut open between your ribs and
all that stuff. So she's walking down the hall and
(50:53):
she hears me scream a couple of really nasty words
at the top of my lung. You me, And she
didn't turn around and leave, and she she stayed right
there with me. Ands same as Jim. Forty two years
we've been we've been together, and the same thing, you know,
something stupid happens to me and she's she's right there.
(51:16):
So I'm with you, guys. We couldn't have done this
without them. So and in fact, I left the house
today early to come and do this, and chance you're
gonna leave early just to go talk to them. I said, well, yeah,
it's kind of it's kind of a big deal. She said, Okay,
we'll tell them hello. So you've been told hello. And
for all of you out there, we hope you have
enjoyed this. I know we could sit around and in fact,
(51:37):
I know you guys have had breakfast a couple of
times recently and for twenty years, you and I have
talked about, hey, let's get the gals and we'll go
to dinner. We're gonna do that, or at the very least,
I'm going to join you guys for breakfast and that'll
become my breakfast, brunch, lunch, dinner, midnight snack because we'll
just sit around just like this, I know, and tell stories.
It is terrific. Jim, I get to see you every week.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
Michael.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
It's great to see you again, and I hope to
see much more of you as we save as we
have time.
Speaker 3 (52:04):
This has been special. Thank you both of you.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
Well, we have fun doing this and thanks to all
of you out there. We're going to keep doing it.
I hope. NASA, our producer is shaking his head. So
obviously there's seven or eight people who are listening, uh
not probably our wives.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
But at some point they hopefully they won't be voting.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
That's that's right, if they vote.
Speaker 2 (52:22):
Thanks to all of you, we'll see you next time.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
On Seahawks Stories, this has been one of the great
ones right here with z Man and Mike Holmgren. Take
care
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