Seahawks Stories: Sherman Smith

Former running back Sherman Smith joins the show. A member of the Seattle backfield for the first seven seasons of the franchise, the Seahawks Legend also coached the position during the early Pete Carroll years, including the Super Bowl XLVIII team. Today’s show: playing football since a young age (02:02), always knowing he wanted to be a teacher and a coach (04:12), being drafted to Seattle and changing positions (06:29), Sprint Draw series (11:35), fake field goals (15:57), Jim Zorn’s ankle injury throwing to Sherman (18:48), end of Sherman’s career (21:20), coaching career (24:44), coaching with Jim Zorn in Washington (34:26), coaching under Pete Carroll with Marshawn Lynch (37:45), life after football (46:07) , and finding out he had a son (48:12).

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to Seahawks stories, teaking you behind the scenes
with your favorite Seahawks.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Set back to Bey and Zorn, who's back to pass
as time looks for the left sideline, throws a bomb
down there he's got a man in front. He makes
to grab a travel at the thirty down of the twenty.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
They'll never get him.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
He scores touched.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Down Seahawks powered by Seahawks Dot Com and.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Zorn later in perfectly a Rabel who goes in to
score on an eighty yard pass and run play.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Now here's your host, the voice of the Seahawks, Steve
Rabel and Seahawks legend Jim Zorn.

Speaker 4 (00:34):
Hey, well, I am here. This is Jim Zorn, not
Steve Rabel. And Raves is out today, so I he
encouraged me to continue with our series of legends and
stories of.

Speaker 5 (00:54):
Yesteryear.

Speaker 4 (00:55):
So I am going to take the reins here and
I've got a special guest today, and I was hoping,
and I know Raves would love to be here to
ask you a lot of questions. But we have Sherman Smith,
who was a former Seahawks player when I played a
former uh High school local High school coach, a former

(01:20):
college coach, pro coach and former Seahawks coach as well.

Speaker 5 (01:25):
Gosh, you have.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
Kind of run the gamut Sherman. Sherman, welcome to uh
our program here, our podcast here, and uh, I know, uh,
since we've known each other for so long, we'll have
a lot to talk about.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
Oh see, man, thanks for having me on the program
with you, ma'am.

Speaker 4 (01:43):
We we have had several of your you know, past
uh memoried players. We even had Nick Beebout on uh
who you play?

Speaker 3 (01:55):
You were? You were?

Speaker 5 (01:56):
He was playing when you were playing, and yep, believe it.

Speaker 4 (02:01):
Anyway, I want people who have tuned in to kind
of get a feel for you and how you got
to the Seahawks. Did you grow up in a football
family and play football most of your childhood?

Speaker 6 (02:18):
Well, you know, I didn't grow up in a football family,
but you know I played football since my childhood. Did
you have brother and I becreat members of this local
neighborhood center called mcguffee Center, and we started playing football there.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
I believe we were about eight years old.

Speaker 6 (02:34):
And man, just guys on our side of town, we
end up going to the you know, all of us
were in the little League.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
Together, we went the junior.

Speaker 6 (02:41):
High together, we went to high school together, and so
it was it was a pretty pretty unique situation. So
I started there, like I said, about seventh or seven or.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
Eight years old.

Speaker 4 (02:51):
So after high school, did you guys all split up
and go to different colleges or were you one of
the were you one of the only ones that went
on to play college ball?

Speaker 5 (03:00):
And where?

Speaker 4 (03:00):
Did tell everybody where you went and how your career
happened there, because I'm interested in that.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Really blessed, it was really blessed. You know, our high
school team. When my high school coach came to my
high school, it was probably my freshman year.

Speaker 6 (03:15):
At that point, our high school had the probably the
losingest record.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
In the state of Ohio. We were pretty bad.

Speaker 6 (03:22):
And so this guy, Clifton Knox, he came to our
high school, North High School on the East Side, and man,
he turned that program around from the inside out.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
And he didn't do it with ex'es and o's. He
just talked to us about pride in your community, pride
in yourself.

Speaker 6 (03:35):
I mean, he just he just built us up and esteem,
you know, built all of us up. Man affirmed all
of us, and man we start having winning championships. So
by my junior year, my senior year, you know, we
were winning city championships, competing in state championships. And I
was blessed to get offer a full scholarship to Miami, Ohio.
As well as some of the other teams, they went

(03:56):
to other colleges. One other of my teammates, he went
to Miami me Ohio with me my first year. Then
he ended up transferring out after the first year. So
we had a lot of guys, man that were blessed
to be able to go and play college football other places.
And and and I always say to the Clifton Knox
was the reason why I wanted to become a coach,
you know, he was.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
He was my inspiration.

Speaker 6 (04:17):
I said, man, I want to be a coach like
coach Knox. So really, coaching on the college level and
the pro level was never my dream or aspiration. Even
playing in the NFL was not a goal of mine. I
wanted to go to college, get my degree, and go
back to Youngstown High Youngstown, Ohio, and be a high
school coach.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
That's all I wanted to do.

Speaker 5 (04:35):
When I was did you major education?

Speaker 3 (04:38):
Then yes, I did. Yes, I did.

Speaker 6 (04:41):
So that's why when my career was over with, man,
I didn't I didn't stumble around trying to figure out
what I wanted to do.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
I was excited. I said, man, now I get to
do what I went to college to do. And I
was be a teacher and a coach.

Speaker 6 (04:51):
So I was really excited about what came after football
for myself.

Speaker 4 (04:55):
But when you got out of high school, you were
a quarterback. Is are you didn't change positions in from
high school to college?

Speaker 5 (05:03):
Did you? They recruited you as a KLB?

Speaker 6 (05:05):
They were they honestly, they were honest with me. You know,
Coach Mallory recruited me as a QB.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
And when I got there, there was another quarterback.

Speaker 6 (05:13):
We were both all state quarterbacks, and he said, whichever
one doesn't, you know, win the job, you know as
a quarterback, will go to defensive back. And I really
didn't care. I was kind of excited about playing dB myself.
But you know, I ended up, you know, becoming the
freshman that you know that they decided there would be
the quarterback and see how they could develop me. And

(05:34):
so he went to defensive back and I ended up
staying a quarterback.

Speaker 5 (05:37):
And you stayed. You were there all your entire college career.

Speaker 4 (05:42):
You didn't get in there was no portal then, there
was nothing going on that you.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
You and there was no doubt and there was no
red shirt. So you had four years. You had four
years to graduate.

Speaker 6 (05:53):
My freshman year was the first year that freshmen were
eligible to play varsity.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
Okay, So so there's definite. He wasn't red shirt. Like
I said, my first year freshman could play varsita.

Speaker 5 (06:04):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (06:04):
So I brought everybody up to that point. Because this
is what's really interesting about you coming to the Seahawks
in nineteen seventy six, the very first year the Seahawks
started playing in the NFL. You were a second round
draft choice coming out of coming out of Miami Miami

(06:26):
of Ohio. And when the Seahawks drafted you, what did
they tell you you were going to compete against me
because I was a free agent.

Speaker 3 (06:38):
No, no, but I got drafted as a wide receipt.

Speaker 5 (06:40):
So you know, I think about that.

Speaker 6 (06:44):
Yeah, I really wasn't kidding myself. You know, I knew
as a quarterback, I didn't have the throwing skills.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
I was more of a running quarterback, you know.

Speaker 6 (06:50):
I was a running quarterback in college in high school
as well as in college, so I wasn't kidding myself.
And so when other coaches from the NFL came, men said, hey,
we're going to move you to dB or we're gonna
move you to tight end.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
After my uh, we played a bowl game.

Speaker 6 (07:06):
My senior year in college, I went and played in
an All Star game as a tight end. So one
day I was a quarterback. I got MVP in the
game as a quarterback. And then I go to an
All Star game and I'm playing this tight end. But
the Seahawks told me, yeah, they drafted me as a
wide receiver.

Speaker 5 (07:23):
And so think about this.

Speaker 3 (07:25):
And then the story is the.

Speaker 6 (07:26):
First day of training camp when Jack came to me,
and it was kind of funny. He came to me,
he said, have you been looking at the running back plays?
And I just thought he forgot you know, man, he
must have forgotten what he drafted me, as you know,
And he said, uh, he said, you know. I said, no,
coach them, you draft me as a wide receiver. He said,
well not anymore. He said, we'll move when he's running.

Speaker 5 (07:47):
How did that? And you didn't care because you had
already played tight end.

Speaker 4 (07:50):
You had played qb uh you want you you could
have been a dB uh that didn't hurt your feelings.

Speaker 6 (07:58):
Well, you know it kind of it was interesting because
at that point, you know, it was the first day
of training camp and I had never played running back.
I hadn't played running back since the Little league football.
So I said, here it is man. You know, I'm
coming into the NFL and my very you know, I'm
getting moved the running back. So it's a lot different
than you know, as you know, Zee lining up underneath
the center.

Speaker 3 (08:15):
Now I'm lining up seven and a half yards deep.

Speaker 5 (08:17):
Yes.

Speaker 6 (08:17):
And the funny story that I always tell is is
that I remember our first day out, you know, when
I got moved to running back. Andy McDonald was our
running back coach, and I give him so much.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
Credit to help me because he taught.

Speaker 6 (08:29):
He took me as a guy that never played running
back and helped me understand the skills and the things
to be a running back. So when I became a coach,
a lot of it was what I learned from Andy McDonald.

Speaker 4 (08:39):
What was his But what happened to favorite favorite phrase
or phrases that you remember?

Speaker 6 (08:45):
I'm telling Oh Man, Man, he had so many of them. Man,
he just I know, he always called me reverend, and
it was always reverend, and you know, but he was.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
He was a fun loving dude. Man. But what I
remember bottom Z is a you know, he told me,
he said, don't worry.

Speaker 6 (09:01):
You know, we're gonna take it slow with you, and
you know you'll figure it out. So we go out
to our first practice and we have a nine on
seven drill and so I'm standing in the back like, okay,
I'm waiting. You know, I'm standing in the back. You're
gonna take it slow, and he says, get in there.
I said, what do you mean, get in there? And
I said, you said you were going to take it slow.
And he started laughing. He said, I lied to you can't.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
Get in there. And I said, man, it was so funny, man.
And I'm going to the huddle and we're laughing about it.
But I'm saying, he figured the best way to learn
is to do it. And so that's that's what happened. Man.

Speaker 6 (09:31):
So from the very first day, you know, they put
me in that position and said, man, you'll learn.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
Why you do it.

Speaker 4 (09:38):
Yeah, we didn't have many coaches at that particular time either.
So Andy was both the he was a running back coach,
but he also was a special teams coach at that time.

Speaker 5 (09:50):
Oh yeah as well.

Speaker 6 (09:52):
He see and you talked about now what was funny
what his funny thing was during the game.

Speaker 3 (09:57):
You know, you would see Andy coming to you.

Speaker 6 (09:58):
You know, so wasn't any special teams except you know,
blocking on the extra.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
Point or something.

Speaker 6 (10:04):
You would see Andy walking up to you during the
game and you start going in another direction because he
would always come up. He'd always come hit him in
a pinch, you think you could run down and kick
off for him.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
You know. It was always that kind of stuff. You
see Andy coming that you go run over to the
trainer somewhere.

Speaker 5 (10:19):
He's started limping.

Speaker 3 (10:22):
You.

Speaker 4 (10:25):
Well, when you think about this, I always think that
you are six You are six four when you start playing.
And yes, so, uh the in the run game with Andy,
you know you see a lot of guys Barry Sanders
being five eight and uh some guys you know, built
low to the ground. You were built big and fortunately

(10:49):
you had some you had some thickness to you as well.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (10:53):
You know, you weren't just tall and skinny, if you.

Speaker 4 (10:56):
Will, like a wide receiver. Mighty, you had some you
had some wait to you. Uh, but you you started
at the tailback position and uh, but we were a
two back offense. So we had David Simms as it
was a fullback. He was there when you were there, correct,
right and.

Speaker 5 (11:16):
Donman I was gonna say, yeah, he was, well do
you know?

Speaker 3 (11:23):
Yeah? Yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:24):
So there were guys uh Jimmy jim Ja yep, yep ye.
So uh, we we had a we had a crew there.
But you started. Now, when did it happen that we
started running the sprint draw series because that was a
uh that was a design series by Andy McDonald and

(11:47):
Howard Mudd.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 5 (11:49):
When did that happen? Right when you started?

Speaker 4 (11:51):
Because I can't remember whether it was our first year
or our second year that we started this whole series.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
No, it was our first year.

Speaker 6 (12:00):
Was in our first year, and they were taking advantage
of your ability to get out on the edge and
you know, threatening with the running with the pass and
so that's what made to play really successful.

Speaker 3 (12:09):
You know. They we almost had to run pass option.

Speaker 6 (12:12):
In before anybody knew about it, you know, because it
was you know, hey man, they didn't know you were
either gonna hand it off or you're gonna keep it.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
And if you kept it, you're gonna throw it, you're
gonna run it.

Speaker 6 (12:22):
So I think, you know, they came up with a
great design of an offense that was really good for
us for quite a bit of what for for for
a long time?

Speaker 5 (12:29):
What what is amazing to me?

Speaker 4 (12:31):
And I don't think a lot of people realize on
that sprint draw series that you were the You were
the main character in that. And I handed you the
ball even though we were coming off tackle. I handed
you the ball seven yards deep. You you took lateral steps. Uh,
you didn't come forward until you got the until you

(12:51):
got the ball. And because I think it was it
was open crossover.

Speaker 5 (12:56):
Plant and.

Speaker 4 (12:58):
I came out almost a forty five degree angle deep
and I reached to get you the ball. But then
I would reach, you would fake, Uh, you would fake
as though you had the ball, and then I'd be outside.
I mean that had to be a really difficult process
for outside linebackers.

Speaker 6 (13:18):
Yeah, and for me it was easy because you know,
like I said, I was tall, So that first open
step was really I could get a lot of WI
on that step and the crossover so I was able
to get the width that we needed and you were
able to get the depth that we needed.

Speaker 3 (13:31):
So it all worked out pretty good for us.

Speaker 4 (13:34):
And what did you see when you got the ball?
I mean, how did how did you handle that sprint draw?
Because you ran a lot of them and had you
had the opportunity to do various things on that play.

Speaker 6 (13:47):
Well, you know, it was kind of easy at that point,
you know, because usually the aiming point was somewhere is.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
Either going to be the butt of a ghost, the
butt of.

Speaker 6 (13:54):
The tight end, or the butt of a ghost tight end.
So I always knew that was my aiming point, and
I was just want to read what was open, you know.

Speaker 3 (14:01):
So it was hey, man, they blocking them one way,
I'm going the other way. You know.

Speaker 6 (14:06):
It really wasn't that hard. It was like, hey, run
to the open, run where's open? And so uh and
our tiight ends did a good job when they had
the block, and our tackles would come out and block
the defense then when they had to, So it was
just read their blocks, and you know it was quite simple,
uh for me to see where the open area was
and just run to it.

Speaker 4 (14:24):
What I thought was great about that series, uh, we
would fake play action as well, and I would set
up to throw, or I would drop and you and
you released uh or you check released. However, however whever
we had it. But I thought we were you know,
Jerry Andy Howard, those guys made created an offense that

(14:46):
was very difficult to defend, and we were pretty successful
early in our careers at you know, for the Seahawks.

Speaker 6 (14:54):
Well yeah, and you know, like I say, you know,
and everybody knows this, the reason why our offense was successful.

Speaker 3 (15:00):
Is because of you.

Speaker 6 (15:01):
Because we had a quarterback that could run the ball
and throw on the run and throw.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
In the pocket.

Speaker 6 (15:06):
So I really thought that the whole offense I may
have been what happened in the run game, but I
think it really revolves around usually because of your ability
to do so many different things that other quarterbacks couldn't do,
you know, And so I thought that's what really made
us special on offense. And then when you get guys
like Steve Large and Sam McCollum, Steve Rabel, Ron how
guys that could catch the ball, and then our lineman

(15:27):
that could.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
Block, it was great.

Speaker 6 (15:29):
But I really thought it all came from your ability
to do what you.

Speaker 5 (15:33):
Well yeah, I appreciate that.

Speaker 4 (15:34):
And we had to do we had to do some
special things to survive early in that because we we
had you know, we basically had an expansion team with
expansion players, and we built a pretty good nucleus early, yes,
early in that tenure. But one of the things, and

(15:57):
you said this, you were very limited and what you
did on special teams, but you were a wing back
on the left side on our field goal team, and
one of one of the things that we always did
was run fake field goals. And I don't know, I
don't know how many fake field goals you were involved with,

(16:19):
but I do remember one against the San Diego Chargers,
and I believe it was on a Monday night that
this whole thing was going to you right right.

Speaker 3 (16:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (16:29):
And it was funny too, because you know, my last
two years in the league, I played at San Diego
and when I went down, you know, when I go
down to San Diego, the special teams coach told me,
he said, man, we told those guys to watch the
fake against you guys, and.

Speaker 3 (16:43):
He said, and that's exactly what they did. They watched it.
So yeah, so yeah, but you know, Jack, you know, hey, man,
we were coming there.

Speaker 6 (16:53):
You know, we were coming there, and we knew Jack
always had something.

Speaker 3 (16:57):
Man, he did's gonna have a fake field goal, a
fake punt.

Speaker 6 (17:00):
You know, it was kind of funny just waiting to
see on Tuesday Wednesday whenever we.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
Came in there, just with Jack, you know what he
had and it was he and that was one of
his one of his plays, man.

Speaker 4 (17:10):
And so I just remember everybody taking pride on that
field goal team. Uh not just not just to block
it and and have the kick go up, but we
took pride in, Okay, what what.

Speaker 5 (17:22):
Is the fake this week?

Speaker 4 (17:25):
And you know, you knew he studied it because every
single week we had one in and every single week
it was only designed for that particular team.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
That's right, That's right.

Speaker 5 (17:36):
And that sand that was a shovel.

Speaker 4 (17:38):
It was a shovel to you you Uh yes, I
set the ball down and you came behind the line
of scrimmage and I shoveled it right when you got
in front of me, and you took it around the right.
You know, I don't know if we balked a guy out,
but you took it right up the field.

Speaker 5 (17:53):
You scored. I mean, there was nobody to Oh.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
Yeah, I didn't get touched, didn't get touched at all.
You know, it was it was it was a great design.

Speaker 4 (18:00):
Do you remember, Gray, did you run any others? Did
we have you have any others for first downs? Or
or was that your main one that you remember that
that was.

Speaker 6 (18:12):
The main one, you know, we know the one that
you did on Monday night against Atlanta where you threw
it to Ephron, you know, and we had some other ones,
but I think that was the one that I think
I remember the most.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
That they're probably the one that was specifically designed for me.

Speaker 5 (18:27):
Yeah, okay, that was good.

Speaker 4 (18:28):
Well after after the years there in nineteen eighty two,
that was your tenure in in Seattle. And but in
eighty one I got injured and you know, one of
the things, one of the stories that I I'll never forget.

(18:49):
Do you know that I still remember the play I
got injured on against the Raiders?

Speaker 5 (18:54):
And do you know that I threw the ball to you?

Speaker 3 (18:58):
No?

Speaker 4 (18:58):
I did on the play I got injured on, And
I don't know. It was a play called ninety six,
and I can't remember. Alls I remember is you lined
up on the right side in the backfield and you
ran a corner route and it was the it was
the time, and you know how how hard it was
to play the Raiders and how much we disliked the Raiders.

(19:21):
But I I always remember this play called ninety six
because you had a corner route.

Speaker 5 (19:28):
We were clearing.

Speaker 4 (19:29):
We were clearing this zone out for you and you
got to pass the line of scrimmage and then you
ran a corner. And I'll remember Jerry Rome, my coach,
our coach, telling me, you know, hey, I want you
to really stand strong in the pocket. So I said, yeah,
I will, I'll do that. And I stood strong, I planted,

(19:52):
I saw you, I threw the ball to you, and
that's when I got hit in my ankle pinned and
then I got I got pushed over. But it was
that play and it was a completion. Yes, I can't remember.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
I didn't know that was a play. I didn't know
that was the.

Speaker 5 (20:07):
Place that that was when I got injured on wow.

Speaker 3 (20:10):
So well, you see, we know how it happens, man.
You know, it's you.

Speaker 6 (20:14):
Know, plays like that when you know people don't you know,
it's not a big hit in a pile or something
like that, but it's just you stand a strong in
the pocket, you get hit and boom and it's a
significant injury.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
You know. I know the injuries that I had to
my anterior crushes.

Speaker 6 (20:30):
I think I tore my anterior krushion in eighty and heck,
I didn't even get touched on it.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
It was no one touched me, and I blew my
knee out.

Speaker 4 (20:39):
So I just said, man, that is interesting because we
talked to uh Kurt Warner. He was on one of
my podcasts, and he I remember handing him the ball.
You were already gone, but I remember handing him the
ball on a goal line play and he did a
jump cut and he blew. He tore his anchur Christian

(21:01):
livement as well.

Speaker 5 (21:02):
And right, what right? What game do you remember in
that nineteen eighty season, Sherman? What game that was? I
can't remember, man.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
I can't remember. Zee, I no, I can't remember. I
don't want to guess on it.

Speaker 5 (21:14):
Yeah, you just made that, but I know.

Speaker 3 (21:15):
We were at home. I know we were at home
when I did.

Speaker 4 (21:17):
Yeah, okay, and so we were Did you get traded
to San Diego uh in eighty two?

Speaker 3 (21:26):
In eighty two?

Speaker 6 (21:27):
Yeah, So the way it went down was, first I
got traded at to Kansas City and then I go
there and they they failed me on the physical saying
that I had a neck issue. So then I came
back and really the Sea the Seahawks were really great
to me because they I think John was I think
John Thompson was still the GM.

Speaker 3 (21:45):
But they called me and they said, hey, you have
your choice.

Speaker 6 (21:48):
Howard Mudd was in Cleveland and they said, we can
trade you to Cleveland or the San Diego. Well, I'm
from Youngstown, Ohio, so man, that'd be close to home.
So I called my mom and you know, told my
mom about it, you know, and my mom encouraged me
to go to San Diego. She just said, you know,
and I love that, you know, the Pacific Northwest and

(22:08):
she just said, you know, son, you know af you staying,
you go to San Diego.

Speaker 3 (22:13):
So that's where I ended up getting trade to San Diego.

Speaker 5 (22:15):
Okay, I didn't know that.

Speaker 4 (22:16):
How many years were you there? You played with Dan
Fouts obviously, yes.

Speaker 6 (22:21):
Yes, great experience playing with playing with those guys, really
a great experience.

Speaker 3 (22:25):
Very talented team, very a lot of talent, yeah, a
lot of on that team.

Speaker 4 (22:30):
But your knee didn't allow you to have a long,
a long career at that time. And was it your
knee that naughty or was it your neck?

Speaker 3 (22:40):
No, what happened was, like I said, I tore my
interior crush it. I believe it was nineteen eighty.

Speaker 6 (22:45):
I told my right interior crush it in nineteen eighty
and Z Man, We're doing a walkthrough.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
In eighty three.

Speaker 6 (22:54):
At a camp at a camp in San Diego, and
I blew my other knee app and.

Speaker 3 (23:01):
That's and that was it. You had a walk through.
It was a walk through. When I went down, everybody
thought I was joking because there was we were doing
on air.

Speaker 6 (23:13):
Yeah, And I planted my left knee, man, and it
just buckled, and I'm laying down there and I'm pinching
myself hoping it's a dream.

Speaker 3 (23:20):
I'm saying, man, it's got to be a dream. And
it was it. I tore it worse than the one
that I did, Uh, you know, my right ney. So
that ended my career right there. That was it. I
knew that I wasn't playing anymore.

Speaker 5 (23:30):
Football, Sherman.

Speaker 4 (23:31):
When you were done, why did you Why did you
come back to the Northwest? Was it because of friendships
you had? You had established up here, or I know
you you know, I didn't get why if you were
in San Diego, you're from Youngstown, Ohio, why you came
back up here, because you you you established your home

(23:52):
up here.

Speaker 3 (23:53):
Yeah, we really liked it, you know, Sharon and I,
we really liked.

Speaker 6 (23:56):
The Pacific Northwest, and like you said, we had established friendship.
You know, it really changed once I was no longer
a member of the Seahawks, you know, because a lot
of our friendship.

Speaker 3 (24:06):
For me was you know, guys in that locker room.

Speaker 6 (24:08):
Sure, and you know, like guys like yourself and Steve
and you know, just those guys that we had, those
Dave Brown and guys like that. But you know, it
became different once I wasn't on the team because man,
you guys were working. You know, you guys were work
and so it was different. But I still we still
liked Seattle.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
We enjoyed our.

Speaker 6 (24:27):
Time there, and you know, and I enjoyed it even
when I came back and coached, you know, my tenure
with Pete Carroll. You know, I really thought about when
I retired from coaching, staying in the Pacific Northwest, but
with our kids being closer back here, you know, we
thought this would be best for us.

Speaker 4 (24:44):
Well, you started. How many years did it take you
to get to become a coach? And you started in
high school? I believe at Redmond High School?

Speaker 6 (24:53):
Yeah, I started, really, I started rip. I was teaching
at Redmond Middle School. And I started my coaching at
Redmond Middle School, Okay, And then Jim Sampson asked me
to come up and to work with the with the
with the varsity football team.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
So then it's I started that. So I was at
both places.

Speaker 6 (25:10):
I went to middle school, then I would go up
to the high school, and then the next year I
was just at the high school yep.

Speaker 4 (25:16):
And then you went to the uh then you started
at the college level and you had to move.

Speaker 5 (25:20):
That's you think you'd be done.

Speaker 4 (25:22):
You think you were going to be done moving, and
then all of a sudden you get an opportunity to
coach at your alma mater.

Speaker 3 (25:29):
Right right right.

Speaker 6 (25:31):
And the thing if it was like I said when
I went, you know, my desire was to be a
high school coach.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
And I turned the job down. You know, I turned
it down.

Speaker 6 (25:38):
You know, Randy called up, man, we can go back
to Alma made And I said, man, I just want
to be a high school coach. I never thought about coaching,
you know, on the college level, you know, you know,
and going back to Miami. But you know, you know
what I think as we continue to pursue it, Sharon
and I really just spend time praying about it, and
we just said, you know what, this would be a

(25:58):
great opportunity to go back home, you know, to get
the kids closer to their grandparents, for us to go
back to our alma matera, you know, and have a
chance to rejuvenate and get the program back to where
it was when when when I played there. Because when
you know, my three or four years at Miami Ohio,
whether as you look back at Miami Ohio football history,

(26:19):
where the best years that Miami football has experienced since
you know, so I can say that, you know, seventy three,
seventy four, and seventy five, Miami hadn't had a program
that has matched those those teams.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
Yet. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (26:34):
Yeah, that's good. I mean, you were you were an
awesome player. You were great for us.

Speaker 4 (26:39):
I was hoping, I think when I played and I
had you as a teammate, I had Steve as a teammate,
Raves as a teammate. We had some good character guys
on our team, but we also had guys that really
cared about winning and staying together. And I think the
league at that particular time wanted guys to bond and

(27:00):
play together. You know, that was kind of what the
history of football was building, that that nucleish, building a
good group of guys.

Speaker 5 (27:08):
And when we you know.

Speaker 4 (27:09):
When you left, Raves was done, I was you know,
I had been injured, and uh, it really was something
that was odd to me that that players would move
around and and you the teams you were when you
when you first start, right.

Speaker 6 (27:32):
But I noticed the you know, for me, you know,
God is good because man coming out there, you know,
that's where you know, I came out there and where my.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
Faith, you know, Ken Hunterson led me to Christ.

Speaker 6 (27:44):
And then I had guys like yourself and Steve largest
men in my life, Dave Brown, you know, guys that
men really showed me.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
And when I say this in all sincerity, man, you.

Speaker 6 (27:54):
Guys were great examples to me, great husbands and fathers and.

Speaker 3 (27:59):
Great guys and me.

Speaker 6 (28:00):
And I know that wasn't an accident that I was
in Seattle during that time and man, it helped give
me a foundation for my faith, the foundation type of
guy I wanted to be. And so man, those times,
like you said, character people, Norm Evans, you know, man, wife,
you know, sure, you know.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
See I got the Norm Evans story. Man.

Speaker 6 (28:18):
Remember our rookie year we played Minnesota Vikings. Yep, and
we should have won that game.

Speaker 5 (28:23):
That's the yard you talking about, the one in Minnesota.

Speaker 4 (28:27):
In Minnesota, that's the start of the show. You heard
you Rabel show that eighty yard touchdown. He's going to
really be excited that you brought that back up.

Speaker 6 (28:37):
Well, you know, hey, I just know in that game,
I was the reason. I honestly thought I was the
reason we lost the game because when it happens, see,
we got down on the goal line and I was
giving the ball twice.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
I mean, we needed a yard and the play was I.

Speaker 6 (28:52):
Was supposed to go to the A gap and then
bounce it outside because they were knifeing in into the middle. Well,
me being the you know, I'm gonna be a smart guy.
The shortest distance between two points is a straight line,
and I don't bounce the ball.

Speaker 3 (29:05):
I decided, Man, I'm just gonna hit it up in there.

Speaker 6 (29:08):
And got didn't get anything two times in a row.
And if I if I run to play the way
the players call, I hit my head on the goal
post and we have a biggest, the biggest upset we
going there. And we upset the Minnesota Vikings because the
year before.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
I know they were a playoff team.

Speaker 6 (29:24):
I don't know if they were to the NFC Championship
game or not, but I know we were gonna beat them.
The beautiful thing, make a long story short, it was
Norm Evans because you know how Jack did man at
that point, we will watch team We watched the film
together and I'll.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
Never forget that being there with the whole offense.

Speaker 6 (29:40):
Man, and when those players came up, when Jack Petera
took over and told Jerry, Jerry, I got it.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
From here, you know, and I knew it was coming.
I knew it was coming. Well, that's what you learned. Also,
don't make excuses. If you mess up. You just need
to say it, because you look real bad in front
of your teammates making excuses.

Speaker 6 (29:57):
All you know, I dropped the ball because the win
got my eyes and you know all that other crazy stuff.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
So anyway, so Jack hit me up with it man,
and you know, and I just say, yeah, you know.

Speaker 6 (30:07):
Coach, I was supposed to do this, and you know,
Jack use that favorite line. I'll put up with you
till I can replace you. What happened was the we
you know, after we would watch film, we go outside
and we do our little shakeout.

Speaker 3 (30:18):
We run around, run some laps.

Speaker 6 (30:19):
Norm Evans he came up and he did something I
carried on throughout my playing career and coaching career.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
He came up to me and he's at that time,
he called you a rook. If you're a rook, Norm
called you a rook. He said, hey, hey, rook.

Speaker 6 (30:31):
He said, if you do what you're supposed to do,
there's no guarantee we're gonna win, but it gives us
a chance.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
He said, all we're asking you to do is.

Speaker 6 (30:40):
Give us a chance. And I never forgot that. He said,
just do what you're supposed to do. That gives us
a chance. And I remember that as a player, and
then even when I started coaching, I would say the
same thing to my guys. Hey, you know, there's no guarantee,
but if you do what you're supposed to do, it
gives us a chance. We're just asking you to give
us a chance, and man, Norm Evans really help me

(31:00):
because man, you know, and I felt bad, Yeah, you know,
because I felt that I do that I was responsible.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
If I do what I'm supposed to do, we win
the game.

Speaker 4 (31:08):
Yeah, I would think every football player can look back.
I probably would think if I'd have completed one of
those one of the passes that was not completed in
the game, he would have won the game. I mean
we all felt that way. I don't think we ever.
I would never remember a game where I thought, yeah, Sherman,
Sherman lost it for us.

Speaker 5 (31:29):
Yeah, well, I'll tell Zee.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
I'm gonna tell you what. Bob Blurtzeber.

Speaker 5 (31:33):
Yeah, Bob Blirtzeber.

Speaker 6 (31:35):
I hadn't seen Bob blurtzemer since nineteen man, whenever his
last year was there.

Speaker 3 (31:40):
So I hadn't seen him since Zee.

Speaker 6 (31:43):
I run into the cat in two thousand and six.
I'm coaching with the Titans then and we're playing Minnesota
in the in the preseason and I get the word
that hey, man, X teammate of yours wants to see you,
and it's Bob blurtzemer Ze.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
Man.

Speaker 6 (31:59):
If I'm lying, I told my running back to the
story about the Minnesota game.

Speaker 3 (32:05):
Zee, we go out to warm ups and you know
how that is. Bob Blursomer comes down there. He doesn't say, hey, sar, hey, man,
haven't seen you know what.

Speaker 6 (32:13):
First thing he said, well, remember when you lost that
Minnesota game for the way you see that.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
That's the that's the first thing, says Zee.

Speaker 6 (32:23):
That's not the end of it. So then I see him.
I'm coaching with the Redskins with me and we're playing,
yeah with you, and we're playing in New York and
they had a thing with Lurcimer came back with an
old group of his and he gets on the elevator
and man, he looks back at me and we get
off the elevator and he said. First thing he said,

(32:43):
you know what, man, I wish they would have had
history replay.

Speaker 3 (32:46):
Maybe you you might have been in oh man, Oh yeah,
I never forgot it. Man, never forgot that. But you
may not.

Speaker 6 (32:54):
Bob Blursimer holds me accountablefore it. First thing he said
to me, you know, so I cracked it ball.

Speaker 3 (33:00):
It wasn't funny, you know, but.

Speaker 5 (33:04):
He yeah, you got he.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
Remember he remembered the like I remember, so I remember.

Speaker 4 (33:10):
A few plays just like that that had I thrown
a completion and I threw an incompletion. Uh yeah, those
things are they stick with you in your in your
memory bank.

Speaker 5 (33:23):
Well that is, yes, they do.

Speaker 4 (33:24):
Yeah, And I know you love Bob Blurts. He was
one of the funniest guys on the Seahawks team. But
he did come from Minnesota and he probably wanted to
beat Minnesota so badly that yes, it was it's it's
not it's hard for himything.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
I guess I should have told that part of the
story too, because I kid you not. There was there
were three incidents.

Speaker 6 (33:49):
I didn't tell the middle incident, but there was three
incidents where that happened, and it was that one in
New York when.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
We got the elevator. He made that comment to me.

Speaker 6 (33:59):
I asked him, I'm messing with my said, man, did
you bet some money on the game or something? You know,
I'm thinking he must have lost a lot of money
on the game or something.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
You know. I didn't know, and ze, man, what you
just said. That's what he told me.

Speaker 6 (34:10):
He said, that would have been one of the biggest
victories that I've ever experienced in my career. If we
would have beat them. That's why he remembered.

Speaker 5 (34:17):
Yeah, yeah, that's why he remembered.

Speaker 4 (34:19):
He told me that, Yeah, Sherman, Uh, you worked for
you worked for me. But one of the things that
I asked Steve Rabel, are there questions that you want
to ask Sherman? He said, I want to ask him
one one question. How hard was it to work for
the for the for me as as the head coach

(34:40):
in Washington when you came and worked with me, uh,
with the Washington Redskins at that particular time.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
No, Lee.

Speaker 6 (34:49):
You know, like I said, if somebody would ask me
this and you you wouldn't have.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
Been around or whatever.

Speaker 6 (34:54):
Man, I'd say the same answer, man, and I'll answered
this way along with then the I was truly blessed
as a coach that every head coach I worked under,
it was a great.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
Privilege to work under these guys. I was blessed.

Speaker 6 (35:08):
I couldn't look at one head coach and say, man,
except for that guy, it was a bad experience going
to Washington with the.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
Coach with you.

Speaker 6 (35:17):
You know, I had been with the Tennessee Titans or
slash Houston on the Tennessee Titans.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
For thirteen years. Yes, and so leave them. Man. I
mean I was assistant head coach. We had we had
a pretty good team, you know, Sharon. We were in
the community and.

Speaker 6 (35:33):
All that other stuff. But the reason why I did
go was because of you, you know. So you know,
so that's the reason why.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
I wanted to go.

Speaker 6 (35:39):
You know, I came and you gave me that opportunity,
and you know, and so to say, to work with you,
it was a pleasure. You know, you did a great job.
You know, we knew see, you knew my gifting. You know,
you were the basically you were the coordinator.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
Man, because you knew the offense.

Speaker 6 (35:54):
You called the play, and man, that's the way it
should have been, you know, because you knew the scheme
much better than I do.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
But then you let me do the things that I did. Well.
You know, you allowed me to talk to the team,
you allowed me to.

Speaker 6 (36:06):
Do certain things, and so I think we worked off
of each other, and I just I thought it was
awesome working for you.

Speaker 3 (36:11):
I thought you got I didn't think you were treated
right at all period. You know, I just don't think that.

Speaker 6 (36:17):
I think given the chance, you know, we could have
been successful. And even when I left to go there
Jeff Fisher told me that. He said, Sherman, he said,
if it wasn't for the owner and the general manager,
he said, you guys, I think you guys would have
a chance. And I really believe that, I really believe.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
You know, we have guys.

Speaker 6 (36:35):
We know, we had some guys on the team that
they needed to go because they were a problem. You know,
I don't want to mention their name, but I know
you and I both know who they are, you know.
But I just thought you did a great job under
the circumstances. Really, man, They they, you know, they they
didn't treat you right, particularly that last year, because you know,
we started out great that first year. Man, we're six

(36:56):
and one or six or something, and then we started
having all those injuries.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
You know, I mean, we're killing it, man. Then we
start having.

Speaker 6 (37:03):
Injuries, and then for some reason they want to blame
that on the offense and on you and play calling
and all the other stuff. When our defense was struggling,
you know, it wasn't just us, and we lost all
you know, our linemen, you know, they were long in
the tooth and you know, so all of that stuff.
So no, I say that to say, man, it was
great working with you, and I just thought you did

(37:23):
a great job under circumstances. I didn't think you were
treated right, you know, at all, and and so but
you you manned up and you really took care of business.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
Well.

Speaker 4 (37:33):
I appreciate that, Sherman. I'm gonna let Steve Rabel know
that for sure. That'll be the first time I talked
to him about when I call him, Hey, Sherman after
we were done.

Speaker 5 (37:42):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (37:43):
And it was a short, short moment. You came here
and coached with Pete Carroll and you became the running
back coach here. And I think I think I've always
taken pride in knowing Sherman Smith as a player, as
a coach, high school, you know, uh, a middle school instructor.

Speaker 5 (38:03):
I've always thought of you.

Speaker 4 (38:05):
In all of those situations at the same and I
took real pride in what you know, the body of
work that you did here. I was really proud to
come back and be able to see you as a
friend but also as a coach. And uh, you you
got to coach Marshawan. Actually you coached thirteen years. You

(38:26):
coached some really good running backs in Tennessee. But you're
starting running back here was Marshawn Lynch. How was that
as a How many years did you coach him?

Speaker 5 (38:36):
Here?

Speaker 3 (38:38):
Five?

Speaker 6 (38:39):
And was yeah, I had I was because I was
there seven years. And I would say, well six, you
know because.

Speaker 3 (38:45):
Marshawn that last year Marshawn you know was in and out.

Speaker 6 (38:49):
But I would say definitely a solid five. And the
six was he the best?

Speaker 5 (38:54):
Was he the best running back that you coached? While
you know, uh, in your your.

Speaker 6 (39:01):
Here's what I said, And I got myself in trouble.
I said not to put one down to build up another.
But you know, I had the pleasure of coaching the
Heisman Trophy winner and Eddie George.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
And Eddie Eddie was the.

Speaker 6 (39:12):
Man, and we had the success that we had here
in Tennessee was beat you know, Eddie George played a
big part in us being successful, going to a super Bowl.
We didn't win it, but I mean doing what we did.
And the same fear that people had of Marshawan when
they played the Seahawks was the same thing the team
said about Eddie when they played us. So I mean

(39:34):
it was, man, you got to stop Eddie George. You
gotta stop Eddie George. So I say this is the
as you know, the you scott player.

Speaker 3 (39:40):
They were different. They were different kind of.

Speaker 6 (39:42):
Guys, totally different, I would say from a skill set.

Speaker 3 (39:47):
Marshawn had a little bit more. You know. Marshaan could
break tackles, he could he could use power on you.
He could beat you with elusiveness. You know. He just
had all of that. Eddie.

Speaker 6 (39:58):
You know, Eddie had didn't have all the tools in
the bag, but he had so much other stuff that
he was just as dangerous, you know, to me. But
I always thought Marshan could score. Every time he touched
the football.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
That was my thing. Get the ball in his hand,
the man might score a touchdown. And I always told.

Speaker 6 (40:16):
Him, if it was up to me, you'd never come
off the field. I wouldn't have taken him off the
field in any situation, you.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
Know, because he was good. You know, He's just that
of a player. And Eddie was. Eddie was different in
that his leadership. They were different guys. But Eddie George
was special man.

Speaker 6 (40:33):
He was a special player that I would tell all
of my young players follow his example on the field
and off the field.

Speaker 3 (40:41):
You follow his example and you'll be okay. So I
was blessed to see it. And I think both of
them were one day going to the Hall of Fame.
You know. I think they're both. I think they're both
future Hall of Famers.

Speaker 6 (40:51):
I think right now Ed might be in the I
think they're down to the group of twenty five. I
was just with them a couple of weeks ago. He's
now in the group of twenty five. Now, they got
it down to twenty five and he's still in that group. Okay,
so for the Hall, you know, but yeah, for the
Hall of Fame, yes.

Speaker 5 (41:08):
Okay, Well, I just.

Speaker 4 (41:11):
I know this when I when I coached for the
Detroit Lions. Uh, I was there when Barry Sanders was there,
and I'll never forget being on the sideline, uh and
Barry being on the field on offense, and you could
look down the you could look all the way down
both sides of the sideline from art you know, from

(41:33):
the home team or the Detroit Lions, to the opposing
team on the other side of the field. When Barry
was on the football field, everybody was as close to
the sideline as they could get because they wanted to
watch Barry.

Speaker 5 (41:48):
Touch the ball. And it was I believe that was.

Speaker 4 (41:52):
Just a thrill to be to be on that on
that sideline and watch watch that guy because you're you're
right when you said it about Marshawn Barry, when you
just knew when he touched the ball he could It
may not be a straight shot, but he could.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
Go all the way.

Speaker 4 (42:10):
And I had that feeling Marshawn he in the in
the high time of Marshawn Lynch.

Speaker 5 (42:19):
Here it was like that as well. I mean, I
think people.

Speaker 4 (42:23):
Were there to watch that guy touch the ball and
he was just a great back and you just wanted
to see him get the ball because he could do
something with it that not many other runner drugs could
do with that ball.

Speaker 5 (42:37):
It was amazing, That's exactly, you know.

Speaker 6 (42:39):
And I love and I love coaching the guy because
I always thought as a running back coach, you know,
you always hear about over coaching. You know, you can
over coach a guy, And I just thought always with
the runners, you know, man, I say, I coach you
up from point A to point B. Give you the
you know you say, running the football as much art
as it is science, is as much read as it
is feel. And I said, let me give you the

(43:00):
science part of it. You know, it's his own play.
You need to go pace to the whole. Here's your read.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
I said, once you get to that point, then man,
you do what God has given you. You know, I
don't coach you past that point.

Speaker 6 (43:12):
You know, you just just do this from point A
to point B and then man, do your thing.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
And that's what it was always simple for him, keep
it simple, and he just man.

Speaker 6 (43:21):
I just I enjoyed watching the guy play, you know,
I really did.

Speaker 3 (43:26):
It was just fun watching, you know, and knowing his attitude.

Speaker 6 (43:29):
Somebody asked him about being in beast mode, and you know,
why do you run the way you run? He said,
because I run not to get tackled. You know, that
was his mindset. I'm trying not to get tackled.

Speaker 3 (43:39):
And I know, you know, Zee, they talk about the
run that he had against the Saints, you know, the
beast quake, the run.

Speaker 6 (43:46):
I always thought the run that he had against the
Cardinals in Arizona was I thought he showed more in
that run than he did in the run against the Saints.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
I thought that was a great run.

Speaker 6 (43:58):
That he had that So, but he's a special man,
special dude, special.

Speaker 3 (44:03):
Character, great teammate, great.

Speaker 6 (44:06):
I thought he was a great leader because when he
smoked guys, you know, they when Marsian had something to say. Now,
you don't listen to what he has to say, and
he didn't talk a lot, but when he did say something,
if there was ever a problem with someone on the
offensive defense, Marshawn would take care of. You see Marshawn
going to talk to someone's you know, getting things, take

(44:28):
taking care of.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
So I love the guy, absolutely crazy about him.

Speaker 4 (44:32):
Well, some of those guys in the in the league
know what to say at the right time. And to
be one of those guys, he's got to be pretty
awesome too, because then you know that they've got the pulse,
the vision, the expression uh and you and you listen
and follow it. I mean, that's what makes a great

(44:52):
football team, right, I think.

Speaker 6 (44:54):
And you know they yeah, me too, and they and
they know and he knew that man, They respected him,
you know, they respected him as a player.

Speaker 3 (45:01):
Man. They knew this cat is a real deal man,
you know, you know, and he comes to work every day.
You know. That's what That's what I loved about the
teams that.

Speaker 6 (45:08):
We had back there during the time with Pete Man.
Our guys loved the practice. Our guys loved to come
to work, Richard Sherman, that defense man cats wanted to work, Russell.
I mean, we had guys that worked hard and man,
you know, they encourage each other, held each other accountable,
and so that's why that that group was really special.
And I know we talk about the loss in Super

(45:29):
Bowl forty nine. I truly believe if we had won
forty nine, I truly believe we were gonna win three
in a row. I thought we had the makings. If
we stay healthy, we're gonna win three in a row.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
That's that's what everyone was thinking.

Speaker 6 (45:41):
And I think that was really a lot of the
disappointment that a lot of the guys went through, and
losing the second one was the misopportunity to win the
third one and so so.

Speaker 3 (45:51):
But but that was a special group of guys.

Speaker 5 (45:53):
Yeah, that was well, Sherman.

Speaker 4 (45:55):
After you know, you think about the time that you
had here towards the end of your your career and
now you're retired, but you know, some guys right off
into the sunset, and you have not really ridden off
into the sunset. Almost one of the most exciting times

(46:17):
in your life has been after football, after not only playing,
but after coaching, because a lot of a lot of
us find ourselves weeding in the backyard and picking up leaves,
especially in the Northwest. But your life has just, you know,

(46:38):
it's just revved up. But it's been because of a
unique situation. And I don't you know, we can't we
can't spend an hour talking about it. We should spend more.
But I think it was truly amazing to me that
you had something happened in your life that nobody else

(46:58):
would ever I remember you calling me. I remember sitting
where I was sitting when you made that phone call.
You said, zee, man, I gotta tell you something, and
I said, okay, I had no idea, but I knew
it was serious.

Speaker 5 (47:13):
And you.

Speaker 4 (47:16):
Told me about Delan, and I just thought that was
just a you know, the most unusual story I think
I'd ever heard in my life, and I think a
lot of people might know it. But how did it
first start? And we'll go through it quickly, but I want.

Speaker 5 (47:31):
You to talk about how.

Speaker 4 (47:36):
Delan, this young man came, didn't you Now? From what
I heard I think from you, is that you recruited
him in the beginning at the college level, Is that correct.

Speaker 3 (47:49):
Yes, it's interesting.

Speaker 6 (47:51):
When Sharon and I suddenly left Seattle in nineteen eighty
nine to go back to Miami, Ohio, a lot of
my friends, a lot of our friends back didn't understand why.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
But then when this story came out, they got it.

Speaker 6 (48:05):
He was God, man, God setting stuff up. Because when
I went back there, that's when I.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
Started recruiting Dealan h He was a high.

Speaker 6 (48:13):
School player and I recruited him to come to Miami Ohio,
which he did, and I coached him for a year.
So that's where I first met Delan, you know, when
he was a senior in high school.

Speaker 4 (48:22):
But you left you left after his freshman year or
before his freshman year?

Speaker 6 (48:27):
Yes, uh, let me see, it was my second year,
so it was after his freshman year.

Speaker 5 (48:32):
I left, okay, and you went on to University.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
Of University of Illinois with Liz with.

Speaker 4 (48:38):
Lou Tepper, but then he stayed on. Did he finish
his career at Did Delan finish his career at?

Speaker 3 (48:45):
Yeah? Oh? Yeah? Man.

Speaker 6 (48:46):
He ended up becoming the leading rusher, all time rusher
in the MAC.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
I mean he had a great career.

Speaker 6 (48:51):
He had an outstanding career as a running back. I mean,
he broke all the records, so he was the.

Speaker 5 (48:56):
Man did and you just liked to be his coach.

Speaker 4 (49:00):
I mean, you had no idea that anything further was
ever going to happen or at that there was a
whole nother story waiting.

Speaker 3 (49:08):
No, not at all.

Speaker 6 (49:10):
And what was interesting is people would say to us,
you know, you know, hey, man, you guys could be
father and son.

Speaker 3 (49:17):
And so I had no reason to think that he
was my father.

Speaker 6 (49:22):
I was his father because you know, no one, no
young lady had come to me and said, hey, buddy.

Speaker 5 (49:27):
You know right, and he didn't eat.

Speaker 6 (49:28):
I'm pregnant and he didn't either. No, so we would
both kind of joke it off and you know and
then just ignore, you know, and so so that's how
we handled so, you know, he just laughed about it.

Speaker 4 (49:40):
Yeah, and he became a coach, and then he wanted
to be as as far as the off season. He
came here one summer to be a guest coach. Yes, yes,
And did he ask you or did he ask Pete?
How did he get here?

Speaker 3 (50:01):
You know what? I think mo Kelly really took care
of it. I think I think at that.

Speaker 6 (50:05):
Time mo Kelly was responsible for getting those guys in.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
And you know so Mo so Dealing, Dealing knew Mo
from somewhere. I think Mo may have played.

Speaker 6 (50:15):
In the Canadian League and Dealing they knew each other
from somewhere.

Speaker 4 (50:18):
Okay, but he could have gone in. That's that's the
thing I always think is that Delan could have gone anywhere.
But no, he comes here for summer.

Speaker 6 (50:27):
Ye.

Speaker 5 (50:27):
What year was that, Sherman?

Speaker 3 (50:29):
The year after we won the Super Bowl? Okay, so
that was a twenty fourteen season.

Speaker 5 (50:35):
And he and he stayed for training camp only.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
He he was he was really only here for a short.

Speaker 6 (50:42):
Period of time because he had to get back because
he was coaching at Indiana. At Indiana, so he had
to get back to football. So he only stayed with
us here for ten days. It was a short It
was a shorter period of time than most of the
intern stayed.

Speaker 4 (50:55):
Well, I always remember the assistant O line coach at
that time was Golden Rule, Pat Rule. Yeah, my man,
And he said I think he even made the comment
that you guys, you guys sounded like, what's going on here?

Speaker 3 (51:10):
Well, he well, we're sitting up there.

Speaker 6 (51:13):
My office was right across from from from Pat's office,
and so Delan and I are in there talking about
something and Pat just walks there. He said, look, man,
he said, there's no way you guys have to be
father and son. He said, you have to be. He said,
there's too many similarities. And I look, I said, Pep,
get out of here. Man, you're crazy.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
Get out of here, you know.

Speaker 6 (51:34):
And so that that it was like that, even Marshaan
and those guys were saying.

Speaker 3 (51:38):
They were calling them little Sharon, Hey, little she Wow.
You know, Pete said, Pete said something about it. So
Delan and I we're not thinking anything about it.

Speaker 6 (51:47):
Like I said, you know, there's nothing that should be
an indication. And he knew he was adopted, but you know,
he didn't. There was no connection that you know, when
he started looking for his biological parents where it was
going to end up.

Speaker 4 (52:00):
How long after he left those ten days and he
went back to the University of Indiana and you coached
that season to the Super Bowl again? But how long
after that did this this phone call or not even
a phone call. I don't think he I think he

(52:23):
showed up at your doorstep.

Speaker 3 (52:25):
No, no, what happened? I mean it was years later.
It wasn't until twenty seventeen.

Speaker 6 (52:30):
That after, you know, So it was I had retired,
you know, because my last my last season was twenty sixteen.
So it was twenty seventeen, about a week before Thanksgiving
that Dylan called me and he said, I need to
talk to you. And so I thought he was probably looking.

Speaker 3 (52:46):
For a job.

Speaker 6 (52:47):
He had a job connection somewhere, you know, and so
he because we talked all the time, you know, even
though yeah, we talked all the time, you know, so
we had a relationship going. So hey, he called me up, coach, serm,
you know, want to talk to you, coach. And so
when I when I called him that morning, he wasn't
talking about football.

Speaker 3 (53:04):
He said, hey, you know, I'm adopted. I said yeah.
He said why. You know, I started looking for my
biological uh you know parents. I said, that's great. He
said I got my birth record. I said that's great.

Speaker 6 (53:15):
He said, I find my biological mom and I'm I'm man,
I'm man dealing man.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
That is really good man, really happy to hind it
for you, you know. And then he said and uh.

Speaker 6 (53:24):
And then when he told me his biological mom's name,
my heart dropped because I knew I knew her in
a way that I could be his father. And so
before he could say it, you know, before I could
think it, he said, I asked.

Speaker 3 (53:39):
Her who my father was and she said you, and
that was it.

Speaker 6 (53:43):
And that's how I came down, you know, and she
said you and you know, and so I, just like
he jokes about, Man, I was mumbling and stumbling all
over myself, you.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
Know, because honestly, you know, the thing I knew is.

Speaker 6 (53:56):
Me, man, and is I shared with my players, you know,
throughout the years. You know, I told him Man, I
shared my scars with him.

Speaker 3 (54:03):
I shared with him. Man.

Speaker 6 (54:04):
I was reckless and irresponsible, you know, in high school,
you know, Man, I was out there. You know, Man,
I wasn't a Christian at that point. So I can't
even blame him saying, well, I you know, I wasn't
a Christian, but you know, I definitely wasn't following christ
for sure, and so so.

Speaker 3 (54:20):
I would say I wasn't surprised. And I told my
guys this because Marshawn said.

Speaker 6 (54:25):
Something to me about it when we were back there
for the ten year anniversary, and when.

Speaker 3 (54:28):
We talked about it, Marshawn said, I remember you telling
us that you're not. You wouldn't be.

Speaker 6 (54:33):
Surprised if you had a child out there, you know,
he said, the way you were, I said, yeah, but
I was surprised at who it was when I found out.
That's the only thing to surprise me is that it
was him, you know, because I have.

Speaker 3 (54:45):
A relationship with this guy. So so that's what I meant.

Speaker 6 (54:48):
So yeah, and you know, so that was twenty seventeen
that you know, he told me, and you know, we
went through the process, and you know, he told me,
and you know, I.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
Told him, I'll call you back. I need to process,
you know. You know.

Speaker 6 (55:02):
It hit me like a and so you know, I
called him back and just said, hey, man, you know,
I know, you know, Carol's sure. I want to be sure.
Let's get a DNA test. He said, absolutely, let's do it.
So we did that. I had not talked to Carol
in fifty years, however long it was, you know, since
seventy two. So I had not talked to Carol since

(55:23):
that time. So she knew it but didn't tell me.
So you know, I called her up. She hadn't talked
to me. She was and the story is she was
so worried about what I was going to say, you know, she.

Speaker 3 (55:34):
Said, she was crying all day, concerned about my call.

Speaker 6 (55:37):
What's he going to say to me? And I called
her up and I apologize. I said, I'm sorry, I'm
sorry I put you in a position that you had
to make a decision like that, you know, And she said, hey,
you know what, Sherman.

Speaker 3 (55:47):
We were both young.

Speaker 6 (55:49):
You know, you know, and so you know, we made
a mistake. I did what I thought was best for
him and what was best for you. That's why I
didn't tell you, and so that's that's so that's.

Speaker 3 (55:58):
Where we went from. So it was a great you.

Speaker 6 (56:01):
Know, when I told Sharon about it, you know, my wife, man,
she was beautiful. She didn't he didn't say I'm leaving
you and all of the other stuff, even though this happened.
You know, Sharon was a junior in high school in Cleveland.
I was a senior in high school in Youngstown. We
didn't even know each other. But she was beautiful. She said, Hey,
our family just got bigger. I want to go meet
my grandkids. And Sharon has been treating, dealing in those

(56:24):
grand boys like they are.

Speaker 3 (56:25):
Hers by blood. You couldn't. You can't tell her any different.

Speaker 6 (56:30):
If you tell her any different, you better get ready
to fight, because that's how she is.

Speaker 5 (56:33):
That is amazing.

Speaker 4 (56:34):
Well, that whole story and just all the things that
have come out of that. I've never heard anything like
that in my life. And you know, we all have
probably secrets that we haven't told, but that was one
that in the exposure of it was meant for good.

Speaker 5 (56:54):
And oh absolutely, you know.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
Well, see you're not both a good friends with Tony Evans.

Speaker 6 (56:58):
And I remember because I called Doc Evanson told him
because he's one of my mentors.

Speaker 3 (57:02):
I called him and told him, and.

Speaker 6 (57:03):
He told me back in twenty seventeen, he said, God
is going to use this story for his glory.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
He said, God is going to use this and he did.
When they came out.

Speaker 6 (57:12):
With the movie, showed me the Father that was it there,
It is right there. God used that story for his glory.
And so, like you're saying, after I got through planing
and it was years later after you know, twenty seventeen.
I think the movie didn't come out till twenty nineteen twenty.

Speaker 3 (57:29):
Something like that.

Speaker 6 (57:30):
But man, you know, but God has been using that
story and I've had opportunities go around and not speak
on the story itself, but just to speak on fatherhood
and men and you know, because coaching all that other stuff.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
So God has used thirty two years of coaching.

Speaker 6 (57:47):
Experience to allowed me to go out and really encourage
the body.

Speaker 3 (57:49):
Of Christ, but particularly men.

Speaker 6 (57:52):
I really enjoyed talking to men about you know, our
responsibility to be difference makers.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
And so God has opened.

Speaker 6 (57:58):
Up that door from me to use that story, let
alone my own experiences that I've had.

Speaker 4 (58:04):
Yeah, and you uh, I mean, that's why that's why
Andy McDonald called you the Rev. Yeah, and that's why
you have been a great leader on teams that I've
been a player on and and a coach on. That's
why you're That's why you're there because you also have

(58:26):
you have that pulse of the situation and you don't
get uh, you don't get fluttered in times of stress.
And you know, I mean, what a what a testimony
if you will that you've had just being able to
handle a situation like that, and Sharon being so strong

(58:49):
in that situation as well.

Speaker 3 (58:51):
So well, God had us both ready for what we
need to do. You know, It's like I told.

Speaker 6 (58:55):
You know, people, I said, you see things differently at
sixteen than you do when you see five.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
That's when I found out about it. You know, I think,
I think that's what I found out about these. I
might have got sixty five at that point, but.

Speaker 6 (59:06):
You know, zee for me, I think the thing that
was important to me, you know, the guy that led
me to Christ, you and he were roommates and that
and that's Hutch and man, just take you know, learn
to take my walk serious man, understanding my identity in
Christ and saying, man, that's.

Speaker 3 (59:19):
Who I am.

Speaker 6 (59:20):
You know, Christianity is not what you do, it's who
you are. And so man, I wanted to be you know,
I wanted to make a difference for Christ. And so
you know, perfect absolutely not man. You know Roman's three
twenty three applies to me all the sin, the fall,
so you know I know that. But but my big
desire was really to live the glorified God, still to live.

Speaker 3 (59:41):
The glorified God.

Speaker 6 (59:41):
And so it was at those moments, man, that you know,
just said, man, I want to be God's man.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
I want to make a difference for him.

Speaker 6 (59:47):
And so that's been a mindset that I've had and
a desire that I've had, and so, uh you know that.

Speaker 3 (59:54):
That's what it's all about for me. You know, it's it's.

Speaker 6 (59:56):
God's glory and you know, living to please him and
thanking him for allow me to be a part of
what He's doing. And uh, you know, taking a cat
like me and saying, Okay, now I'm gonna use you know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
And uh, well, and that's why I'm forself. And you know, so,
like I said, I had great examples, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:00:14):
Yeah, I mean you've been You've been used.

Speaker 4 (01:00:16):
You you take the bull by the horns when you
when you need to stand up and uh say something
as well. So uh, I think that in all of
your career. You know, your career might be over in
just coaching football, but you're not in your careers.

Speaker 5 (01:00:34):
You're not. Your career is.

Speaker 4 (01:00:36):
Never going to be over in influencing men. And uh,
I just think.

Speaker 6 (01:00:41):
Let me say, I was I was speaking this past year.
I was on Father's Day. I was speaking at this
church in Kansas City and they had man I'm speaking
to this church and they have three services on Sunday
and this is this big megachurch.

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
So I come in there, I come in and I
meet the senior pastor, and he said, hey, man, are
you still you know, he asked me what I was doing.
He said, are you still coaching? You know? And I
said yes I am. And he said, well where are
you coaching at now? And I said, well, I'm getting
ready to coach at your church this morning. And so
I said, yeah, I'm still coaching, you know, and so
and that's how I look at it. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:01:16):
So what I'm standing in front of these group of
people the church, man, it's to me, you know, see,
you know you've done it's coaching, man, just sharing.

Speaker 3 (01:01:23):
You know, you're teaching, you're sharing, just like when you
stand in front of your players.

Speaker 6 (01:01:27):
And you you're coaching a player or something like that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
So I said, yeah, man, I'm still coaching, you know.
I still look at it. God still has me coaching. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:01:35):
Well that is that that's uh, that speaks truth. And
and also you coach with that humility and uh, that's
what it takes for those men to actually listen and
to get something from what you you know, what you're
what you're bringing to them. So I'm sure that it

(01:01:57):
doesn't matter. What doesn't matter, because when you spend time
in anything, you do it it bears all kinds of fruit,
and you're doing that in men's lives, that's for sure. Hey,
uh yeah, well I can't I can't thank you enough
for being a part of this, uh this program. And

(01:02:17):
Raves is going to be really upset because we've had
you on and he didn't he only got to ask
one question, and but I'm going to.

Speaker 5 (01:02:25):
Make sure that he knows the answer to that too.

Speaker 4 (01:02:27):
Thank you so much, Shureham for being a part of
our podcast. And uh, yep, we're just looking at your
Christmas car pitch and laugh this morning.

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
I was looking at the camp man, beautiful looking family. Man.

Speaker 4 (01:02:42):
Well, we both thank yeah, you're you're welcome. We both
have big families. Now we get to enjoy them all.

Speaker 5 (01:02:49):
Yes, sir, all right, I'll see you later. Bye, Shiram Man,
take care of all right.