Divisional Round Preview with Greg Cosell

On today’s episode, the guys are fired up to get answers about this week’s Divisional Round from the guru himself, Greg Cosell. Greg shares his thoughts on Case Keenum’s year as a starting quarterback (49:36), Pittsburgh’s plan of attack against the vaunted Jacksonville defense (13:33), Brady’s less than stellar finish to the season (26:57) and Atlanta’s stagnant offense (55:18). Finally, the guys welcome John Gruden back into the league with an exclusive clip from the vault and a few stories from working with ‘Chucky’ (1:01). 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Today on the NFL Films podcast The End. Then there
were eight edition It's divisional weekend and we will break
down the remaining teams, what's at stake and what's going
to happen. No messing around this week, PAULI. We got
heroes and Ward Blair, we got Greg Costell in the

(00:21):
house right now, let's do it. Welcome gents. We are
recording this podcast almost exactly in between wild Card weekend
and divisional weekend. It'll come out, actually, it'll come out
right split right down the middle. And boy, we couldn't

(00:41):
be more fired up. Well, I'm trying to get fired
up because I was just watching the Jaguars offense and
and I need to be fired up. I need, I
need something you look like you need. Perhaps it was
just a great pictures doul uh. Greg, And you're not
giving a credit for the tension filled one play can

(01:01):
make a difference drama that it was any chance of that?
Did you find that game tension field class half? Actually
I did. I did only in the sense when one
play can when it's one score and any Bills, you know,
the Bill's offense was at best anemic, at worse than theft.
And yet one long special teams play one miss tackle

(01:23):
and like Joe Flacco throwing that bomb in Denver, suddenly
the Bills are moving on. So when you're within one score,
I can and the Bills and the Bills and Jack
stories coming back into that game. There was enough at
stake there that I could stay sort of very excited
about it. But I'm you know you saw it any more. Um,
I was thinking of a clinical fashion and tactically and clinically, yes,

(01:43):
it's it's a limited offense. That would be a good
word to use. So shall we dive in right now?
Whatever game you want to go, you can start where
I would pick up on that. I think that game
brought into stark relief the big picture story three of
that we're that is gonna play out in Divisional weekend.

(02:04):
That game, we saw two teams with quarterbacks who were
not at an elite level to be kind uh certainly
in that game, but but in their careers and conventional wisdom,
anybody would say that the NFL's a quarterbacks league, right quarterback,
head coach. Everything flows from there, and this week that's

(02:30):
going to be put to the test because in all
four matches, matchups across the board, we're looking at great
future Hall of Fame quarterback. Maybe Matt Ryan's on the fringe,
but the versus either not yet established back up or

(02:50):
I don't know what this guy is yet in Nick
Foles in case Keenum and Marcus Mariota and Blake Bortles
versus Breeze, Brady Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan. I don't know that
we've ever seen it so starkly laid out for us
that this is gonna be it, and it's gonna be

(03:11):
all four. All four games, the same storyline is gonna unfold.
Which one of these quarterbacks is able to win a game? Well,
what's particularly interesting too is Marcus Mariotta was a second
pick in the draft and Blake Bortles was a third
pick in the draft. So obviously Keenum was a free

(03:33):
agent who has banged around the league a little bit.
But you're dealing with, you know, a quarterback in Mariota
who was a consensus first or second pick in the draft.
Bortles at three. I'm sure some saw him that way,
but he was certainly a consensus first round pick. And
it also raises another question before we specifically get to

(03:55):
the games, is if you have a really solid football
team like the Jaguars do. I mean, you could argue
that their defense is top two or three in the league.
It's really good at all three levels. They have a
running back who's theoretically a foundation back. I don't think
they're old line has played as consistently as some, but
it's it's a quality online. What do you do as

(04:19):
you go forward? Do you keep saying to yourself, because
this is Bordles fourth year, I believe, do you do
you keep saying to yourself, well, he's going to get
incrementally better. And this is a decision a lot of
teams end up having to make one way or another.
They picked up his fifth year option, right, I think
the first fifth year option that a team has to

(04:41):
pick up, and I believe they picked up. So that
means there that he's their quarterback next year. So you know,
it raises an interesting question as to what do you
do when you have a quarterback maybe you're not comfortable with,
but the team is good enough to contend. And as
you've pointed out on our show before, Greg, the Jaguars
are only in year one in a Coughlin, but they're

(05:03):
they're they're continuing this build, which is based on a
philosophy evident by their drafting a for net by the
construction of that defense, which says maybe they are content
to design a different role in expectation for their quarterback,
then they might otherwise if they hadn't been building those
other pieces that way. I don't know if contents the
right word. I think it's a It's a formula and
a profile and an approach. But it is the NFL,

(05:27):
and at some point, if you want to get to
a super Bowl and Tom Coughlin is not, they are
just to get to the wild card round and lose.
He's been doing this for too long. At some point,
your quarterback has to make throws. You can't hide your
quarterback in the NFL playoffs now now just to finish.
That doesn't mean he needs to drop back forty five times,

(05:48):
but you can't hide him there. He's going to need
to make some throws in difficult situations when the defense
has the tactical advantage. The way I like to say
it is, at some point in January, your quarterback is
going to have to bail you out of a situation
that you've gotten yourself into. At some point in the
three or four games required to win the Super Bowl.

(06:12):
These coaches and these defenses are too good. They're going
to put you in a difficult spot and your quarterback
is going to have to bail you out. I mean,
no less than Belichick says it. Players win the games.
I mean, did Mariotta do that last week in Kansas City? Yes?
I would say that Mariotta made the plays in that
game that bailed out his team, and they were not conventional.
They weren't they weren't slicing and dicing. A defense he made,

(06:36):
he made. There was a great scramble, there was the obvious,
instantly iconic touch. But what I would say is this,
I've watched the Titans every game since Mariot has been there.
This year was probably his worst season of his three
uh for any number of reasons. But in that game
and this place to your point, cause he made more

(06:58):
second reaction in obversational plays then he has that I
can recall in any game this year, And sometimes that's
part of it. You can't necessarily live on those or
count on those. But as you said, a given game
will require certain things to happen that maybe another game won't.
That game required it, and he was able to make
those second reaction plays. We used to talk about when

(07:21):
Peyton had his struggles in January. That one question we
used to ask around here was is Peyton almost too
robotic for January? For January, because you are going to
be facing those moments where everything breaks down and you
have to improvise, whether it's whether it's Eli to Tyrehea

(07:43):
on the helmet. Catch required Eli doing superhuman things just
to get rid of the football. That Peyton that was
never Peyton strength. There there were games earlier in Ben
Roethlisberger's career when he took the Steelers to Super Bowls.
He was not yet a great quarterback, but what he
was great at was third and eight getting you nine

(08:03):
yards somehow or other. Well, what you're basically saying, and
I guess this is because I think about this more tactically,
is your quarterback still has to be able to function
when the defense tactically wins the down, which Blake Bortles
did a lot of against Buffalo with his feet right right,
and and but when all said and done, he scored

(08:26):
ten points. Now I'm not I'm not no, I'm not
here to praise. No, no, but the point being that
we can lead into that game beautifully right there and
talk about the first time these two teams played Week five,
which was an odd game, as you well know cause
being a Steelers fan, Boarders only through for about a
hundred twenty yards and it was the five interceptions obviously
that been through to return for touchdowns that resulted in

(08:49):
the Steelers losing thirty to nine. Now, assuming all things
being equal, that's not likely to happen again, So one
would assume that Jacksonville will have to sustain off fence
at a much higher level in this game in order
to compete. So what are we seeing Jacksonville do going
back into Pittsburgh with that game on the resume this season.

(09:10):
But it was in October, it was two different teams.
As you said, that was just one afternoon, And we've
seen the last few weeks up to and including this
past weekend where the Jaguars offense was not dynamic and
Bordles was the plays that you were making. He was
making more sort of outside of the design of what
they might He can do, by the way, and he's
also capable of running option zone read, which he's done

(09:31):
throughout this season. But it would seem to me, and
it's always, I guess a mistake to try to get
into coaches and teams heads, but it would seem to
me the last thing that Jaguars would want to have happened,
just to put the ball in Bordles hands early in
the game and run the risk of early turnovers. If
they were to fall behind thirteen seventeen nothing in Pittsburgh,

(09:51):
they're not going to win the game. So now you're
getting into Leonard four Nett and this is a run
game that has been very up and down this year.
It's a one game in which four net seventy five
percent of his carries this year have come in some
variation of base personnel, meaning there's not three wide receivers
on the field. They either have a fullback on the field,

(10:11):
they have two tight ends on the field, they have
three tight ends on the field. It's some variation of
base personnel. That's what their run game is now. They
had some success with it against Pittsburgh. Obviously, his yardage
was increased by the ninety yard touchdown late in the game,
but he still gained over he was still around a
hundred yards out there without so late in that game,

(10:32):
he had ninety yard touchdown late in the fourth quarter.
The Steelers defense is worn out, sold out to stop
the run. Take that away. It was twenty seven carries
for nine yards three point three yards perk, about what
he's been this year for the most part. But if
he gets twenty seven carries on Sunday, the Jaguars are
gonna be feeling very good at it. What's the old
ad parcels at it? It's not the yards per carry,

(10:53):
it's the number of carries. And your point is corrective.
They if he gets twenty seven carries, it means it's
a ball game late third quarter into the fourth quarter question,
and that means it's anybody's game. But uh, you know
this is that's the critical piece of their offense. They
must be able to at least stay on schedule, uh
and stay ahead of the sticks is people like to

(11:13):
say with their run game. Because I'd be very surprised
if they put the ball in Blake Bortles hands early
in this game. What have you seen a for net
as the year has gone on, In this sense, he's
still a rookie, and there's always the talk of well
this this season a little bit longer than the season
that he's had any other time in his life. And
now he's playing even another he's into the second playoff week.

(11:34):
Has for net diminished? Does it seemed like a physical
fatigue thing? Is he up to carrying the ball as
much as they need him to this week based on
what you've seen over the last half of the season. Well,
my guess is mental he is. I think he's slowed
down a little bit. I think he's been a little
hesitant at times. Um. I think earlier in the year
he was hitting it up in there really hard. That's

(11:55):
the kind of runner he is. He's your classic runner
that it looks like he just gained three rds and
you look up and it's second and three. That's the
kind of runner he is. But now I think he's
been a little hesitant. He hasn't been hitting it up
quite as hard. I think that's what he needs to do.
I think he stopped his feet at times. And when
I say stopped feet on me, he stops dead in
his tracks. But he starts to pitter patter a little bit.

(12:17):
You know, who knows whether he's a little tired from
a long season. He's had a lot of carries I
think including the playoff game against Buffalo, I think he's
up around two nine carries. That's a lot of carries.
And he's a physical contact collision runner. He doesn't and
and that's a positive for his style and his size.
But at the end of the day, he's getting hit
a lot. So I think there has been a little

(12:39):
bit of the diminishing returns. Cause was it the jag
game that afterwards Ben gave that locker room interview where
maybe I don't have it anymore? Yeah, I mean right,
he was beaten down after that. Yeah, I mean, you know,
as he Ben, Ben likes to create um narratives, I think,
and when he speaks out the other side of the ball.

(13:01):
Is interesting too, because I went back and looked at
that Week five game, and the Jaguars played almost all
what we call cover three. It's a zone concept. They
did nothing special with Antonio Brown. They didn't travel anybody
with him, they didn't match up um the times the
few times they played man to man coverage, uh and

(13:21):
Jalen Ramsey was lined up over Brown, he got in
his face and was very, very physical with him. But
they played predominant zone coverage and did not treat Brown
as a special receiver in any way, shape or form,
and he was healthy, then okay, if I might interject
for a moment now because I have something personal I
need to because we have a Steelers fan who I

(13:43):
think is uh this is I wonder if it's gonna
be about you just saying that Antonio Brown is not
a special kind of receiver. No, no, no, no. This
is my one season with NFL Films in these twenty
one years. This is the first time I'm ever going
to it attempt to speak publicly and dispassionately about the

(14:04):
Pittsburgh Steelers. They are, they are the reason I am
in this business. If you, if you grow up in
western Pennsylvania, which I did, the Steelers enter your blood
stream at an early age and and and actually become
part of your identity in a way that only certain

(14:24):
small market teams and small markets and corners of America
that are largely forgotten, some some of them past their
prime can impact a young person's life. My my my
earliest memories, so so for me. So, gentlemen, we're embarking
on a journey together here over these next three or

(14:46):
four weeks, where you know, if they if they win
this week, obviously the stakes will be very high next week.
If they lose, I'm going to be very difficult to
talk to next week. And if they if they slay
the dragon in Foxboro, we're gonna have a lot to
talk about after And if they don't slay the dragon

(15:08):
fox We're gonna have a lot. So in other words,
he's what he's telling us, policy's a frontrunner basically, So well,
that is not the case. He's Audio Diary, Chapter one.
I say all that by way by way of leading
to the to this. In some ways, I feel like
I've seen this movie before. I've seen it many times
where the Steelers are a heavy double dig near double

(15:29):
digit home favorite in a playoff game. Not many people
see a scenario where they lose. But I can tell
you the way you lose games like this because I've
seen it many times. It is a big special teams play,
a freaky turnover, a couple interceptions, an a yard touchdown pass,

(15:53):
you know those kinds of you're dominating the game, you
feel like, but you're up nine to three in the
middle of the second order, and then something weird happens
and all of a sudden, that road team gets a
little bit of confidence. That's a little bit of belief.
And it's the Jaguars defense that's the critical piece here
as far as making it that kind of game. And
I don't think the Steelers should come out here and

(16:16):
try to blow out the Jaguars. I think that would
be a full's errand to some degree, because that defense
is the real deal. And if Ben comes out and
tries the gun sling from the word go, I don't
know if he'll have success. On the one hand, he's
playing unbelievable football. He's ever since they're bye week, he's
been on fire. He's a different quarterback than he was

(16:38):
in Week five, no doubt yet when he didn't have
it um. On another hand, three weeks without playing, Ben's
never been great in that situation, He's not. That's a
little bit of a long time. Also, he hasn't played
with a b in five weeks. In their favor. That
offense as is way way way further involved than it

(17:01):
was in Week five, when Levian Bell was not himself yet,
when Martavis Bryant was a bit of a mess to
be Frank and Judic Smith Schuster was not yet the
juju who became a phenomenon. I really like he's, like,
in Hine's words, body, a more dynamic playmaker even than

(17:24):
Hines was, and they had not yet developed what vance McDonald,
the new tight end has arrived, appears to be coming
in that offense, which is another weapon. There's a They've
got a number of weapons now that I don't know
any team in the league can match, um, even a
defense like the Jags. So you might say, come out

(17:45):
and attack and and just be that offense. But if
you come out an attack and have a couple early
turnovers and give Blake Bordles a short field, you could
really be in trouble. I might say, let's put this
one in Leviance hands and grind it out. Well. It's
an interesting philosophical discussion which happens all the time. Uh.

(18:07):
The bigger the game, no matter how quality your quarterback is,
and obviously Ben's going to be a Hall of famer,
is when you're playing a team that you feel is
not likely to score a lot, is how do you
how do you approach it? Do you try to put
them away early, or given the quality of that team's defense,

(18:27):
do you do what you just suggested. It's it's that's
a philosophical question that I think a team, as they
game plan, has to test to think about, and I'm
sure they do think about it. Is just what you said,
Did the Steelers come out with the attitude that if
we get up fourteen nothing, they're not scoring fourteen points,
We're done, This game is done? Or do what you said,

(18:48):
just in a sense, play it relatively close to the
vest running the risk cause as you know that all
of a sudden now or in the third quarter and
it's thirteen seven, and that one specialty teams play that
you're talking about, that one you know, long touchdown now
becomes a factor that could change the course of the game.
And you talk about the movie you've seen before, let's

(19:09):
talk about the Tom Coughlin filmography. Now he's not the
head coach, But whether it was the Patriots and forty six,
the Patriots and forty two, Boston College at Notre Dame
in ninety three, whether it was our I t against Hobart,
whenever Coughlin has been associated with the team, the profile
that they matches. We like to have the chip on
our shoulder. We like to be told we can't win

(19:31):
the game and I'm sure they're loving being underdogs in
Pittsburgh despite the fact that they beat He's telling everybody
in that building, Oh, you beat them thirty to nine,
and you're an underdog this week. Don't forget. No one
thinks you're any good. You gave up three points last
week to a playoff team, but they're not giving you
if it's right in that wheelhouse of the of the
go ahead and overlook us Tom Coughlin playbook that has

(19:52):
led to multiple Super Bowl rings. So yeah, watch out Pittsburgh.
Well maybe I'm talking myself in coming out and attacking.
Maybe maybe that isn't because you know, you know, you
think about like Marty ball coaches who have traditionally struggled
this time of year and not gotten over the hump.

(20:14):
We usually look at them and say, you played, what's
the phrase, the cliche, you played not to lose. But
on the other hand, you do have the back who
I believe has more carries than any back in the
league this year, and your offense very often this season
ran through the Levian Bell. So it's it's it's an
interesting conceptual question as to how the Steelers decided to

(20:37):
come out and play this week. You could play like
in a cautiously aggressive way by building a game plan
around Levian Bell because you can use them in the
passing game safe passes and and in the running game.
He's such a dynamic threat that that you can you
can do safe things and still be dynamic. But see,

(20:57):
then the issue, it's not an issue. But then teams
do that try to take that approach is then they
go for what we call shot plays on occasion in
other words, first down, normal down and distance situations where
they line up with um run personnel based personnel and
run formations and try to hit downfield throws. If you're

(21:18):
going to do that, then you have to hit those
because if you don't hit those, then you're in second
and ten or whatever it is, and then you're stuck
behind the chain. So you have to hit those if
you're going to take that approach. Does any team take
more shot plays on third down than the Pittsburgh Steelers. Well,
there's clearly a confidence with Ben and certainly Antonio Brown

(21:42):
that if if if there's one on one coverage and
it's down the field, he's going to throw him the
ball and feel pretty good about it. UM I can't
answer that you know specifically, but it's obviously a team
that has no problem driving the ball down the field
because you will see you will see this at least
once on Sunday. I guarantee it. Third and three, third
and two, third and three and obvious, just get the

(22:04):
first down situation. Ben loves to go deep in that
spot because what they normally do is they'll is they'll
get one on one coverage on the outside, so he's
gonna he's gonna throw the ball and they're pretty successful
doing that. All right, this has been enough of Keith's
therapy session here. Let's move on to the other side
of the A f C bracket because it would seem

(22:24):
to me, Wait, we're talking about the other games today.
There is more than one game this weekend. This is
not Katie k a Pittsburgh. This is the NFL Films Podcast.
We are covering all bases. So let's talk about the
Titans though, because again, from from what I think I see,
there might be some similarity to the discussion we just had.

(22:45):
Do the and Gregg talked about the Malarkey plan last week.
We line up, we run the ball, we have a
profile of our approach. Is that what they are. Is
that what they have to be again this week going
into the Patriots that the best offense in football statistically,
I believe. So they're going to Gillette a game again.
No one's going to give him a chance the whole

(23:05):
nine yards, Derrick Henry, Mike Malarkey. Are the Titans having
to follow that same game plan to have a chance
this week in New England? I think the Patriots are
number one yardage. I think the Rams are number one
and scoring. That's correct. Sorry, no, no, that's correct though.
Um again, they have a distinct profile. They'll play to
that profile. The macro view of this game is they

(23:29):
need to do two things. They need to be able
to run the ball with some sustainability, and they need
to get pressure on Tom Brady, who, by the way,
has been pressured a lot more this year than in
previous years. And Dick Lebo, as we all know, is
very good with his pressure concepts. I believe the Titans
were the third or fourth team in the league in

(23:49):
terms of most sacks on defense, so they are very
good at generating pressure. There's some distinct flaws in the
old line of the Patriots that can be attacked, so
they need to get pressure on Tom Brady. Uh, and
that that's If they can do those two things, then
the game is at least competitive. Now. The thing we

(24:10):
talked about earlier in the podcast, which will come back
to now is Marcus Mariota and his ability to make
outside of structure plays, which could be critical. That's what
was very important last week when they beat the Chiefs
and came back from being down three. Uh. They're they're
more capable than Jacksonville of running a pass game within structure,

(24:33):
so they do have that to some degree. The I'm
curious as to whether they'll spy Mariota. The Patriots have
done that with mobile quarterbacks. They play against Tyrod Taylor
twice a year, they spy him on occasion. I'm anxious
to see if they do that because there are predominant
man to man based defense and they'll play man coverage

(24:54):
and to do that, I think they'll feel that they
need someone in a position to react to Mariota. Wie,
you can hurt them with their with his legs. So
that Patriot philosophy we've heard about so often over the years,
I guess really the Belgian philosophy, going back to the
Giants is I'm going to take away your strength and
make you beat me with your weaker respect of your games?
Are you so? Are we? Is it safe to say

(25:15):
then if you had a guess, what is it they're
trying to take away Mariota? Well, they'll try to take
away Mariota in in passing situations clearly, uh, because I
don't think they want to get beat by him running them.
But there's nothing worse than when it's third and eight
to have the quarterback run for twelve the arts and
he did that a number of times last week against
the Chiefs, and those were really important place. But just

(25:36):
backing it up a step though, can the Titans offense
line up with Derrick Henry and just run it down
the Patriots throat? Well, that's a hard question to answer.
Two weeks ago when they played Jacksonville, they couldn't run
at all, and Henry looked very slow and plotting much
better to Jackson's got a great front and linebackers, no question,

(25:59):
much better or defense than um New England in terms
of personnel um this week. This past week, the Titans
old line played arguably it's best game of the season,
created a lot of space for Henry, because Henry is
a momentum runner. Henry is not a shifty runner. Henry
needs his first three four steps to the point of

(26:21):
attack to be clean. He's not going to make penetrating
defenders miss in the backfield. He's not a change of
direction runner. He needs to be able to generate momentum.
That's how he builds up some power. He's not naturally
powerful in the sense that if he's in a confined space,
he he knocks people around. He needs to build up

(26:42):
that power and then his size comes into play. So
they're old line did a phenomenal job against the Chiefs defense.
Quite honestly, that did not have a real good season.
So you're asking me, can they do that against New England.
You know the thing about Belichick is they do give
up yards on defense. They always give up yards on defense.
They don't give up a lot of points, but they

(27:02):
give up a lot of yards. So it could be
a situation where Henry runs for a hundred twenty yards
and if if it plays out the way Belichick wants
it to play out, they could have thirteen points when
the game's over. You said that Brady has been pressured
more this year than in year's past. Is that a
function of something he's been doing differently or a reflection
of their offensive line play nothing he's been doing. I

(27:24):
think it's a function of scheme and old line play.
I think they've thrown the ball down the field more
than we've seen them consistently. Uh So those downfield throws
require two things, either deeper drops or him to stay
in the pocket a little longer. And I think the
old line some weaknesses have shown up. Their left guard
Joe Thuney, has struggled in one on one pass protection.

(27:45):
Their right tackle position, it's now been Cameron Fleming due
to injury, and that's been a little bit of a
struggle at times. So they've struggled with some individual one
on one pass protection. And Brady has been in the
pocket a little longer, So he's just even when he's
not set act, he's been getting hit a little more.
Do you view his play over the last four or

(28:06):
five weeks as a drop off or a product of
something else, because it's clearly fall off a little bit.
What have you seen on the table? Well, his last
game was not very good and it was very surprising.
He was against the Jets right, Yes, and it was
a division game the Jets played to win. They obviously

(28:27):
know him well and that offense, so you have to
take that into account as well, because division games are
always a little different, as you guys know. But I
thought that Brady was a little He played a little fast,
He wasn't quite as composed, and he was nowhere near
as accurate. I mean, he missed some routine throws with
poor ball placement, which we are not used to seeing
Tom Brady do. So I don't want to sit here

(28:51):
and say his last four or five weeks have been awful,
because they haven't. He still led the league in passing
yards and I think he led the league in yards
for attempt which very much a function of I said
earlier that they're trying to that they pushed the ball
down the field a little more this year. Um, and
everybody's gonna say it's the playoffs, now it's Brady's time.
I don't. I never know how to answer that kind
of question. He is forty years old, UM, But no,

(29:14):
he has not been as sharp over the last month
or so as we normally expect Tom Brady to be. Well, Keith,
we all know the Patriot whole franchise is about to
just fall into the ocean. They're going to sell it. Yeah,
move away to Neptune or something. So maybe this is
the last time we even see the Patriots play to
let who knows the now, you guys thought we were
getting away from the Steelers. I'd like to go back

(29:36):
to this point. We can always edit this out later.
Go ahead. Did you know he's from western Pennsylvania? But
where where was the so called exotic smash mouth offense born? Mr?
Coast So I don't even know what that mean. Mike
Malarkey the mic. That's just a name. That's just a
name for an offense that stems from Mike's belief which

(29:59):
goes back to when he within Atlanta as the offensive
coordinator and they had earlier, even earlier Pittsburgh Pittsburgh two
thousand one, Cordel, Stewart and baddest he he invented all
kinds of ways for Cordel to convert first third downs
in traditionally run oriented schemes. Where he would use it

(30:19):
was with Cordell's brief revival. Larkey was the offensive coordinator
when they lost at home in the championship game, the
first of their trio of disastrous championship game defeats to
New England their defensive coordinator. The Titans defensive coordinator is
the legendary who has been owned by Tom Brady as

(30:46):
much as any not quite as much as Tomlin. Obviously
there's overlap, but Brady is six and two against le
Beau and has dominated him over the years. Has le
Beau adjusted his defense and his scheme in ways that
lend themselves to beating Brady in this situation. It's a
great question because one thing that the Titans have really done,

(31:09):
they started doing it last year. I actually talked with
the Clobo briefly about at the combine last year, and
he continued it this year is more man coverage because
he wants to rush five and he feels that if
he rushes five that he wants to play more man.
So this is a team that tends to rush from
different looks, a lot of different looks. If you watch

(31:30):
the Titans, you'll see Brian a rock Po standing in
the middle of the defense almost like a middle linebacker.
You'll see Derek Morgan doing that at times. You'll even
see Jarrell Casey. At times you'll see Casey lineup as
a wide nine defensive end. He moves people all around
because what he tries to accomplish is to get one
of his best pass rushers on the back. That's what

(31:52):
he tries to do. And then he tries to get
a rackpo on the back. He tries to get Morgan
on the back. Now, if if someone happens to and
free because the protection makes a mistake, that's great, But
that's that's not the goal in the NFL. That's hard
to do. Why has that worked so well against NFL

(32:12):
quarterbacks and been totally feudal against Tom Brady? Well, I
don't know if he's done this specific thing against Brady
because this has been something he's sort of evolved into
in Tennessee. You know, when he was in Pittsburgh, he
not that he didn't play any man because in his
later years in Pittsburgh they made I tell or much
more of a man to man corner, as you know.
But I think this greater emphasis on five man pressures

(32:36):
out of sub packages, five defensive backs, six defensive backs
with man to man coverage has become a little more
of a staple. I think that's the direction he's now
moved his adjustment to the NFL, so we'll see this
has been the approach. I I don't believe he's going
to rush through your four and play zone that we
know that that doesn't usually work against Tom Brady and

(32:58):
the Patriots. Right, well, we've seen that movie. Yes, you
know what occurs to me, Keiths as we talk about
these games, it's really sort of the Bill Parcels Tribute weekend.
And we have the Belichick Patriots Saturday, we talked about
the Coughlin Marone Jaguars and just kind of bouncing the
other side, we have the Mike zimmer Sean Payton Vikings

(33:21):
Saints game saying you know what you're doing here? His
fingerprints are all and Paul, who are you a fan of?
I root for the New York Football Giants. Oh shocking.
Had dissertations on Kaughlin deep into the IMDb of his filmography,
going all the way back to to to what r

(33:43):
P I this is a Bill Parcels Tribute weekend, when
I just clearly laid out that this is this weekend
is really about the Steelers. It's fine, go with your
counter narrative, but let's let's everybody recognize person. Let's everybody
recognize this is agenda driven podcasting, Big the Big Two,

(34:05):
and his fingerprints are all over not just this weekend,
but the modern game. We can do a whole pot
on that later. He's taking it's very personal, it's business,
That's what you know. That's what we were talking about
before this started. Was personal versus was actually not to
go off on a tangent, but this connects to parselves
to go ahead, Nick Saban in the championship game, having

(34:28):
whatever you want to call it, to change his quarterback
at halftime and go with a freshman. Not only is yeah,
you gotta have guts to put in a freshman quarterback
in that situation, but there is some loyalty that most
humans would have to this kid that has been your
quarterback for two seasons. Through one interception was and two
we found out was a phenomenal kid based on the

(34:49):
interview he gave after the game. But it tells you
that in those moments, you gotta be dispassionate. Nick Salman
is not most humans. His his resume is not the
same as almost anyone who's ever encountered his profession. And
these are these are the moments where we find out
why I don't. I'm sure he has no personal animus

(35:09):
against Hurts, but his allegiances to winning. He pulled another
tool out of the drawer at the right time and
and overlooked the passion that others might have had, and
they won the game, right which Belichick and Belichick and Saban,
obviously having coached together in Cleveland, Belichick has has demonstrated
that capacity over and over and over again, which is

(35:31):
why Belichick and Saban are the two pre eminent coaches
of our of our time right, well, maybe of all time.
I guess yeah. I mean, it'd be hard to say otherwise.
Right now, Belichick, we'll we'll see a one running back
dominate this week, and then next week that guy will
get three carriers. But I want to say one thing.
It's funny you mentioned running back. They have sort of

(35:53):
evolved the Patriots over the last five, six, seven games
into running the football with a lot more consistency week
to week than we're used to. Uh. Dean Lewis has
carried the ball. I don't have the the exact number,
but I would bet he's carried the ball twenty plus
times in three or four games over the last two months.

(36:16):
Dean Lewis. You know where he's from, Keith. It's not Pittsburgh.
He's from what I mean, a factory of of NFL stars,
the pitt Panthers. I was gonna say Albany, New York.
And you know where he went to college, well before
he went to college. Alright, let's get back on Lewis.
Is really the nexus of of of our universe is Pauli?
We should bring him in next week, but no that

(36:38):
you know again, that's something that I think when everybody
talks about the Patriots offense, obviously the focus is Brady
in the passing game, because that's what it's been for
the most part. But they've been running the ball, uh
with greater volume, let's say it that way, with greater
volume than than they normally do. We've not seen Brady
as much this year with those you know, forty eight

(37:01):
attempt games, those fifty two attempt games where you know,
even though he might not throw for five yards, it's
it's just the past game becomes the run game. We
haven't seen that as much. We talked about this last
week where you know, who could be the breakout star
of this January? Is there a chance that Dion Lewis
is a player who three weeks from or four weeks

(37:22):
from now everybody says, but everyone holds him in. It
makes for an interesting matchup in this game because the
clear strength of the Titans defense is their front seven,
and I think a lot of people believe that that
the film will show that you can get to their secondary,
particularly their corners. They start the rookie of Dory Jackson,
who would not surprise me if he travels with Brandon Cooks.

(37:43):
But I think then I think people feel you can
you can work the other corner. Who's who's now? Tie Smith?
Who is uh they signed as a free agent in Tennessee.
He's from tousand. Uh. You know Logan Ryan goes in
the slot. Obviously Belichick knows him well. I think he's
a very good player. But you know, Belichick will feel

(38:03):
depending on formation personnel, I'm sure that he can attack
what he perceives to be his weaknesses. So it'll be
interesting because this is this is a good front seven.
Increasingly we hear that there's almost a book on beating
on which is funny to say there's a book on
Brady now after he's annihilated everyone in football for fifteen
years that you know, you press press man coverage, you've

(38:27):
got to get pressure up the middle. You can't really
blitz him. Well, so hilarious, Well, if you hit the quarterback,
you can beat him. Yeah, well no kidding, Well, but
you can't. You can't really blitz him in in the
way the teams, you know, in the way Dick Lebo
used to blitz while playing in his own coverage. He'll he'll,
he'll dice that apart in seconds. Yeah, And and look,
when a guy has been successful over time, are there

(38:49):
particular ways that teams feel that they can best attack,
you know, a good quarterback or a good offense, of course,
but when when that happened? Is to be successful in
a given week, And it always is at times because
it's the NFL and we're dealing with, you know, high
level athletes and great coaches. I always struggle with the

(39:10):
word blueprint because when it does happen, it's not the
first time that particular thing was ever try. It's like
Week one when they lost to the Kansas City Chiefs,
and everybody said, ha ha, there it is, well number one,
that wasn't the first time that was ever done. And
other teams have tried to incorporate those kinds of concepts,

(39:32):
and you know what, Brady still have been pretty good
in his career. He talked about, well, how do we
start this conversation saving he had a blueprint of a
quarterback and in the critical moment he strayed from the
plan and went to the other part of the He
just know, he just threw out that blueprint and put
in the other quarterback blueprint all of the game. But
that's why why we play these games and why these
moments get made. Well, I think also with a blueprint

(39:53):
like that, where all right, you gotta generate pressure on
Brady with with with with four with were guys essentially
or and you've got to be able to to press
man cover his receivers. It requires elite personnel in some
cases to do that. Yeah, or certain kind of personnel.
I mean, I know exactly what you're saying. Obviously you
don't need eleven all pros on defense, but it require

(40:16):
a certain kind of personnel, and not every team has that.
Not every team is comfortable doing that. So can it
happen in a given week, sure, But the blueprint thing
is hard because it you know, without bleeding cliche. It's
not like someone is coming up with something totally brand
new that has never ever been seen or done on

(40:38):
a football field. So when something works, it's normally because
it's personnel or in a given situation, something was effective.
But it doesn't mean that you can just take that
cookie cutter and apply it on a week to week basis,
because if you could, teams would do it. You know,
it's like zone coverage. If if zone coverage took away,

(41:00):
if there was one zone coverage that took away every throw,
everybody would take play the same coverage. You know, it
doesn't work like that. There's there's no blueprints. There's tactics
that can be effective based on based on personnel, but
there's no one thing that will work. All the time.
We've talked about Label, we've talked about UM their personnel,

(41:21):
where we sort of danced around it. Do do the
Titans have the personnel and the scheme to do the unthinkable?
As what thirteen and a half point underdogs. I'm not
asking for prediction, but is there a scenario where we
could actually see something remarkable happen? I can envision it

(41:42):
well again without trying to be too cliche. I think
a couple of things have to happen. Number One, they
are going to have to sustain some sort of run game. Yeah,
Mario to will absolutely have to make some plays outside
of structure. And perhaps the big key and they struggled
with with this this year after Mariota was great in

(42:04):
his first two years is red zone offense. They will
have to score touchdowns in the red zone. That's not profound,
but ultimately for them to win, that's what's going to
have to happen. They're not going to win this game.
Kicking field goals if they get in the red zones
killed many a team against in Foxboro. We saw with
Buffalo a few weeks ago and the infamous Calvin Benjamin

(42:26):
play and the other possessions early in that game with
Buffalo really played well and seemed to have a chance,
but they could not score touch And just to put
a bow on this, and you know Malarkey well from
his days in Pittsburgh, I'm going to be very anxious
to see how he approaches this game because he does
have a pension when he thinks it's necessary for I
don't want to call them trick plays, but let's call

(42:47):
them packaged plays. Okay for plays that you really haven't studied,
and well Belichick will probably study them, but plays that
you normally don't associate as part of your offense. And
again it gets If those plays happen to work, they
can help you win a game. If they don't work,
they in my view, they always hurt you because then

(43:08):
they prevent you from really generating any rhythm with your
offense because their their package plays there. I hate the
word gimmicker trick because I don't think that's the way
Mike Malarkey would think about them. But you know that
he does that, and I think you'll see some of
that in this game. All right, now you may proceed
with Zimm. Can we talk Zimmer and Peyton? Now? I
would love to talk. I love Mike Zimmer. We love

(43:30):
Mike Zimmer at NFL, we love, we love both of
those coaches have been good to us over the years.
Let's talk about not well, we're not gonna start with
case Keenan and Drew Brees. We should talk about case
keen Well, he's a little better than people think. But
I want to hear about Zimmer, whose defense now is
how how many years has he been there? Three years?
They've been good every year and you know how many

(43:53):
All pros they have this year. They're they're they're great
defense at every level. Yeah, can we just do it
to a thumb print on what what? What is? What?
What is this defense? Well? I think one thing that
they're really really good at and in our matchup room
we often talk that they may be the best in
the league at it. I think they disguise their coverage
looks better than any team in the league, and that's

(44:14):
really difficult to play against. They have what we call
interchangeable safeties and Harrison Smith, who is arguably the best
safety in the league, first team All Pro, and Andrew Sendejo,
who's probably a better player than people think. But when
I say interchangeable, it means that they can both play deep,
they can both play near the line of scrimmage. They
can both fulfill numerous responsibilities and demands within the context

(44:38):
of a defense. So that gives them an opportunity to
do a lot of things coverage wise, and they disguise
coverage really really well. Now I'm sure a lot of
people thinking, well, it's Drew Brees, He's seen it all.
Yeah again, here's a perfect example. So let's say they
win the game, you know, and and the Vikings. So
are people going to say, ah ha, there's the blueprint

(44:59):
to beat Drew Brees is that he's never seen disguised coverage.
Of course he has, but sometimes it can it works
because that's what you try to do. You try to
clutter the mind of a great quarterback. Because great quarterbacks,
particularly the Drew Breezes of the world, they're built on timing, rhythm, structure.
That's the way they play. So what you try to
do is you try to minimize that. You try to

(45:22):
limit that, and there are times that can work, and
if it does, that's you're successful in in your objective.
You you noted their secondary, their safeties. They have a
great corner too in Rhods. Yeah, Rhodes. Xavier Rhodes is
a very good corner. Um. He's a corner that they
will travel at times. They did not travel him on

(45:43):
Michael Thomas week one. They play week one. It's a
long time ago. It might mean nothing as far as
this matchup. Both coaches will look at it clearly, but
it may mean nothing. But he did not travel with Thomas.
I think is the season's progressed they've used him more
as a match up corner. It it wouldn't surprise me
if he does travel. Maybe not every snap with Thomas,

(46:06):
but Thomas predominantly, not predominantly, is the X receiver and
what that means is he will line up as the
single receiver to the short side of the field, to
the boundary. He's what we call the X is so
receiver to the boundary. Now again that's not because Peyton
is very multiple with his formations, but that's what Michael

(46:29):
Thomas primarily is in the Saints offense. The X is
A receiver to the short side of the field. Last
week we talked about the Saints maybe being the most
complete team on both sides. The ball also hadn't really
been bitten by the injury bug as we as we
entered the playoffs. Last week against Carolina, they lost Pete,
their offensive lineman. Yeah, what kind of impact will that have?

(46:50):
Again facing this this incredible defensive well a better player
than his replacement, Seneo Killameni. But Killamedi has started six
games this year at left guard and has a lot
of experience, and so they're not putting in someone who
can't line up and play. So in their case, while
Pete's I think Pete's had a really really good season
and I think he's an outstanding puller at the guard position.

(47:12):
I don't think Kellamtis is good a puller as Pete.
So they may see that as somewhat limiting their run game, which,
of course, in a big game like this, does present
a little bit of an issue. But it's not as
if you're putting in a player who can't compete and
be competitive, you know, be competitive. He's played just you know,
we've been talking about the Vikings defense in the Saints offense,

(47:32):
but just let's just draw this back to the thirty
foot question. Is this the best defense versus offense matchup
that we're going to see in this postseason? This is
a great defense, great offense. Even this is fun. This
could be the best matchup we see, certainly this weekend,
but maybe in this whole tournament. Could be, could be?

(47:53):
I mean, the Saints are they came out last week
and they chose to throw the football. I mean all
year long, all we heard or I heard in doing
a lot of radio shows, well what's wrong with Drew Brees?
Because his numbers weren't very good? You know, relative to
previous years in terms of yardage. Obviously his completion percentage
was ridiculous, but his yardage and touchdowns. And then the
Saints came out this week and pretty much said, you know,

(48:14):
we're gonna put the ball in, drew his hands a
little bit, and he did. Okay, he did, Okay, Yeah
he was he was pretty good. Yeah. Yeah, he's good
at football. Yeah he's pretty good at that. So but
obviously they can be incredibly balanced with a run game
and a pass game. Um I mentioned where Michael Thomas
lines up. The other thing that's really difficult about that

(48:34):
is predominantly, again Kamara will line up to the same side,
So they primarily will have Thomas and Kamara lined up
to the short side of the field. Sometimes Camara's offset
in the backfield to the short side. Sometimes he's detached
and split. That can be very difficult on defenses to
the short side of the field, especially if there's what

(48:56):
we call trips to the wide side, meaning three receivers,
because now you've got to focus the strength of your
defense on the three receivers. Who are you know, normally
you'd have a tight end is one of them. But
they do line up with four wide receivers at times,
so sometimes it could be three wide receivers to the
to the trip side. That makes it a little more difficult.
And Kamara is such a good Receiver's gonna put three

(49:18):
receivers over here, and we're gonna put these two killers
over here, right And and Drew Brees is good enough
to be able to find whoever it is that's open. Yeah,
And the thing that he's he's does very very well
is his understanding of he'll check it down though you
know he's he normally does not force the football. Every

(49:39):
once in a while he will because he'll see something
he thinks he can do, but he's not. He did
not throw very many interceptions this year. So if Zimmer
and Peyton and Breese and the other guys on defense
are kind of the heavyweights that might decide this game,
let's talk about another guy who's playing in case, Keenum,
who may not be at that caliber of the marquee name,
but this season has had a good season, the team's

(50:01):
had a good year, and he's part of what has
talked about earlier, this quarterback mismatch. How does he figure
into this? You know, this game, it's a mismatch only
in the sense that Drew Brees is a Hall of Famer.
But Case Keenum is played a lot better than people think.
And I've watched at the end of last week because
I was starting already to prepare for this week, I
watched a ton of Case Keenum throws. And let me

(50:23):
tell you something he is. First of all, he's a
really good mix of aggressive and cautious. He'll turn it
loose when he's very comfortable turning it loose, and rarely
forces it when he does, doesn't throw a lot of interceptions,
doesn't make ill advised throws. But he also can be
very cautious when the situation demands, so he's not over aggressive.

(50:46):
And and I've always been a big believer that to
play quarterback in the NFL at a reasonably high level,
you have to be willing to turn a loose. You know,
we talked, we started this podcast talking about a Blake Bortles,
and you know the fact that he's not really going
to do that. You know, that's not the kind of
quarterback he is, you know, and Keenam is willing to

(51:09):
do that. Keenum is willing to turn it loose and
make stick throws into tight windows. You have to be
able to do that. They don't hide him. That's what
we're talking about with Bordles. They're not trying to prevent
Keenum from being a big factor in the game. And
he's made a lot of throws. Two things that stand
out on film. Number One, he can make throws with

(51:29):
people around him. He's made a lot of throws with
free rushers coming at him and he stands and delivers.
The other thing, he has a knack for what we
call second reaction plays. You know, he's not Russell Wilson.
Tell me what does that mean? You use that phrase
a couple of times outside of the structure and timing
of the play. Call. Well, that's what we talked about.
That's the kind of play that you must be able

(51:51):
to make in January. And he's so the first reaction
is what the plays quote unquote designed to do. Correct.
Second reaction is something happens, disrupts that does sign and
you have to reaction and you have to react to it. Yes,
And that's what we call second reaction plays. Fancy term. Yeah,
and and you know, or sometimes I call it outside
of structure, but you know, second reaction is has sounds

(52:12):
better I think, but industry term, he's very good at that,
better than people probably think because he's not a big guy. Uh,
but he he will. I mean, people may remember on
Thanksgiving Day when he had a free rusher and he
hit Randolph Rudolph for a touchdown. And he's made a
number of throws this year beating free rushers by standing

(52:33):
there and still delivering the football. A glowing review of
case Keenum from one of the stars of All or
Nothing Season two, Case Keenum, who would have thought a
year ago that he would be and having said that,
I'm not going to sit here and say that he's
Tom Brady or that he's a great quarterback, I guess
I would be surprised. Now he's playing against the Saints defense.

(52:54):
They're gonna play a lot of man coverage. The one
thing the Saint the Saints are not a great pass
rush team. It's Cameron Jordan's who's a very good pass rusher,
and then it's the pressure schemes dialed up by their
d C Dennis Allen. They don't have a lot of
pass rushers on that d line. So again, could case
Keenum go in this game and and not play well,
of course he could. But all I'm doing is speaking

(53:17):
to his track record this year. He has played far
better than the perception of him is just oh, a
journeyman backup who who? Who can't really play keenan Breeze.
Not a mismatch. There we go. Well, I didn't quite
say that. I didn't say it. I said it not
a mismatch. What are the times in history we're a

(53:38):
quarterback not only defied perception but may have launched his
his career with a post like like, we didn't know
that this guy was going to be this guy until
we saw him in that that one January I got
one yea. And not exactly, but for me, Aaron Rodgers
in Atlanta, and I think it was was it the

(53:59):
wild of of the divisional game? That was when he
became Aaron Rodgers superhero. The Aaron Rodgers game, I think
he was. I recall I think he was thirty for
thirty six and it was the greatest performance I've ever
seen on a Saturday night, if I remember correctly, and
the whole country. And Rogers was the guy up until
then who was sitting in the green room not getting drafted.
Then he was the guy who was made to sit

(54:20):
behind bred Farve and then that's pretty good. He was like,
all right, this Rodgers is pretty good. Here's his first
shot in the play. He strafed them. Well, one thing
about case Keenum, it is someone whether Look, people are
still talking about his offensive coordinator, Pat Shermer perhaps getting
a head coaching job. Case Keenum will be seen because
he's a free agent and I don't know how Minnesota

(54:40):
feels at all. So but Case Keenum will probably be
a starter in the league next year somewhere. It should
be thirty two guys better than case Keena right now.
And he's only what a six year player. He's not
old by any No, he is not old. He doesn't
have a lot of mileage on him. He clearly understands
the game and like you head, he's able to throw

(55:01):
the ball accurately in the in the tight spaces. Well,
let's talk about a guy who has to start this Saturday,
who his fan base is gritting their teeth through the
fact that he's starting because they didn't really, I don't
think wanted him to. They don't want him to be
the guy, but they got him. He's their guy. And
that's Nick Foles. He will start this Saturday as the
number one seeded and yet underdog Philadelphia Eagles hosts the

(55:25):
six seeded Atlanta Falcons in the Divisional playoffs here at
the link. That's a frisky sixth seed gentleman, you know,
Super Bowl rematch, cause their offense has not been very good.
The Falcon, Yeah, it's not been very good and it's
suits hell well. I mean, the numbers tell a lot
of the story. The one area they're good in, which

(55:46):
is very surprising when you watch the tape. But these
are the numbers as they lead the NFL on third
down conversion percentage. But overall, I mean, I guess their
run game numbers are probably similar to last year, but
their past game has nowhere near what it was a
year ago in terms of production. And they've got some
issues on their oldline, and that's where I think they

(56:06):
could have a lot of problems in this game. I
think the Eagles D line versus the Falcons OH line
in certain positions is a definite mismatch in favor of
the Eagles. In favor of the Eagles um more so
than the Rams were or is different kind of defense
like compared because the Rams defensive line led by Aron

(56:27):
Donald did do some they disrupted Matt Ryan. They will
do in my view, they'll do something very similar to
the to the Falcons um. I think the guards can
be attacked. Uh, the Falcons guards can be attacked, and
teams can do things with their fronts to create one
on one matchups. We saw the Rams do that. The

(56:49):
Eagles have been very good at that throughout this season
because what they do in their nickel in particular is
they will often line up to the line up Brandon
Graham inside along with Fletcher Cox, and they kind of
force an offensive line to decide, Okay, which way will
we slide our protection, Because if we slide it to

(57:10):
Fletcher Cox, who's a great player, then you've got Brandon Graham,
who's a defensive end, match one on one with a guard,
and that's what the Eagles. That's one of the things
the Eagles will do. There's a number of things that
the Eagles do very effectively to create one on one
matchups or mismatches inside. And yet I view this one

(57:30):
is the most straightforward game of the weekend. I don't see.
I don't think it matters a great deal right now
that that that the Falcons offense is not particularly in
sinc or effect. So you think the Falcons. You like
the Falcons in this game. I like the Falcons defense.
They that defense looks different than they They've played really
well in particular over the last month. They're a good defense. See.

(57:54):
Now there's gonna be a lot of talk about Nick Foles,
and I'm sure it's because we're in Philadelphia. Um, there's
probably not as much to talk about Nick falls in
Kansas City as there is in Philadelphia. But but we're
but we're in Philadelphia. So I think I don't know
how Doug Peterson is going to treat this, but I
think you just have to look at it as if, Hey,
the Eagles are playing with a backup quarterback, So what
happens when you play with a backup quarterback? Again, it

(58:16):
doesn't mean you hide them and you say we don't
ever want them to throw. But the Eagles have had
a very good run game this year, and it's very
very multiple with different backs. They run certain things with
le Garrett Blond, they run other things with j Ji
and Corey Clement. So what do teams do? They try
to run the ball. They have a very good run
game what do they try to do. They try to

(58:36):
play really good defense. The Eagles defense has been very,
very solid and consistent all the year. Everybody who want
to talk about Nick Foles and I get that, but
it's just it's a it's a backup quarterback playing on
a good team. So use your team against a in
particular a secondary that is playing great, really well and
a fast defense, a very fast flow defense. Uh. And

(59:01):
it's you're right, it's this is going to be a
difficult matchup for the Eagles on This could be another
one of those games that, Yeah, I mean, I just
don't think people view the Falcons as a team that
is gonna win ugly and in fact that we may
look back when this is all over and say the
Falcons kind of one. They got down and dirty and
did it. And that's if you're gonna do it from

(59:23):
this position as a sixth seed, this is how you
gotta do it. You're going on the road. You're gonna
playing in crappy weather this week in Philly in all likelihood, yeah,
a little warmer, but you're gonna but but you're gonna
be led by a defense. Typically you're gonna make a
run from that position the way the Giants did, and

(59:45):
and you know seven the way the Steelers did, and
know five, you are going to have to have very
strong play for me. Like I said, everybody's gonna want
to talk about falls, But so if we want to
talk about falls, let's be realistic. Number One, he's not
as quick a decision maker Carson Wentz. Number two, he's
not as good later in the down in the pockets wins.
The longer Fold stays in the pocket, the less effective

(01:00:08):
he becomes. Number Three, he's not going to make second
reaction outside of structure plays. So you know this if
you're the Eagles going into the game. So again it
doesn't mean you never throw the football, but you have
to account for this, so their offense will be different.
This is not a big surprise to anybody. This is
like the second reaction coaching, right. I mean they had

(01:00:29):
Wentz it hit the fan, and now Peterson has had
a couple of weeks and they sort of have to
adjust on the fly too. And again, Folds the guy
who's played. He's played some football. It's not like it's
like he's been rotting on the bench. But the falls
we saw before their playoff by those last couple of weeks,
I don't think they can. What were that third down conversions?
They were one for seventeen in the last two games

(01:00:49):
with Folds converting third down correct, which is horrifying and
correct not going to get you very and Wentz I
think was the best third down passer in the league
before he got hurt. So this version of Nicks, what
what can Doug Peterson do to to to make him successful? Well,
now it comes down to coaching. And the one thing
you know about the Falcons, even though they're very good

(01:01:10):
on defense, is and I'm not saying this in a
negative way at all, you know what they do on defense. Yeah,
there are a team that plays almost all single high.
Over the last three weeks, they played probably sev cover three.
That's the zone version of single high. So you know
what you're going to get. So it becomes incumbent upon

(01:01:30):
Doug Peterson and the coaching staff to design some things
based on their anticipated sense of coverage, based on tendency
and probability. That's what game planning and play calling is
all about, probability and tendency. To design some things where
you feel that Nick can hit that back foot and
the ball can come out to avoid in their zone
coverage to a receiver who's in the void, and that

(01:01:52):
has to happen. If that doesn't happen, then it will
be problematic. Matt Ryan's also sort of a fake dome quarterback.
He's from eastern Pennsylvania. He went to college and he
went to BC played outdoors. Now, yes, he's been in Atlanta,
but this is not a guy that's going to be
intimidated by being on the road. It's still January, could

(01:02:14):
be windy. Point think the point. It's the weather segment
of I'm pulling up I'm pulling up my weather. I'm
saying Matt Ryan will not be deterred by the circumstances,
what be they climate, or or environment, or underdog or
any of that. Fifty three with fifty chance of rain

(01:02:35):
as we sit here a few days before the game
that's Saturday in Philadelphia. That is not to go into
more detail. Being the meteorologist that I am a guy
who doesn't like weather games, I may remind you. I'd
just like to say Cosselt brought his I thought, I thought,
I saw that the rain is supposed to be in
the morning and taper off in the afternoon. You know
what you are today, You are multiple multi I'm a

(01:02:57):
multi dimensions second Reaction podcast. I would like to ask
this though, is here's my question about the other side
of the ball. Is Atlanta's offense. Is there room for
growth for a struggling offense or are they fatally flawed?
And this is what we're going to get in two thousands.
Here's the issue you face. They haven't been able to

(01:03:18):
develop the kind of rhythm we saw last year when
they were one of the most fun offenses to watch.
But you're dealing with the team that has a lot
of good players, So you know, there's always that attitude
which people like to say, that belief that you know,
players are are what's key in the playoffs, you know,
because players have to make plays, of course. Uh so
they do have Julio Jones, he's pretty good. They do

(01:03:40):
have two really good backs who are both excellent receivers
as well, who can line up as you know, split
from the formation. Um. You know, one of the things
we haven't seen this year that we saw a lot
last year when they were more rhythmic, was we haven't
seen Taylor Gabriel be anywhere near the factor that he
was a year ago, so you know, but again, no

(01:04:02):
one has ever surprised if Julio goes eight six because
he's Julio Jones and you can do it any given week. No,
And that that touchdown past Matt Ryan through to Julio
in Los Angeles was beautiful, falling down, slipping and he
just lost. That was a schemed red zone play because Julio,
you know, ran across the formation. And as we talked
about last year, Julio had not done much in them

(01:04:24):
It's on this season. So that was a great job
by them to to get that squared away in a
big spot in Los Angeles. So, I mean, has their
offense been consistent this year, not at all. Do they
have good players including the quarterback, Yes they do so.
But I will say this, these two teams played last year.
Take it for what it's worth. It was the only
game last year when the Falcons did not score twenty points.

(01:04:47):
The Eagles did not do anything specific with Julio Jones.
They did not you know, travel anybody with him. They
played their defense. So I I my guests is Jim
Schwartz will do something similar. Maybe this is one of
those els where you look back on it and said
what was wrong with the Falcons offense all season? And
he'd say, well, most of us don't look at this,
but it was maybe the offensive line just isn't good enough,

(01:05:08):
you know, maybe it just there's lacks that rhythm and
that that protection. Let me tell you something. This I
know for a fact, and we we we are not
revealing sources, but I can tell you that the Falcons
offensive line last year was viewed by as not very

(01:05:29):
good at all. And Kyle Shanahan received calls after the
Super Bowl saying that you did an unbelievable job with
an offense that had a below average NFL offensive line.
That was last year's offensive line. I would argue that
this year's offensive line is worse right, And and Sarkasian
who took his place, Steve Sarkasian with a little bit

(01:05:50):
less NFL experience, maybe he hasn't had enough time in
the league to adapt and learn how to overcome that
sort of a hindrance to a to an elite offense.
So that that twite to me. The Eagles, again, Doug
comes from the Indy red school. They like to be aggressive,
So I don't know what he's gonna do with Nick Foles.
But to me, you have to understand that you're playing

(01:06:11):
with a backup quarterback, and as much as you might
like him and all that, you have to understand that
he can't do what Carson Wentz could do. He's a
backup quarterback for a reason. And you do have a
lot of other pieces on your team. You know, they
have a very good special teams too. So there's a
lot of factors that the Eagles bring to the table
where they can compensate from Nick Foles to some degree.

(01:06:34):
And we'll see how how they decide to play it.
Maybe I feel like this game is less straightforward than
I thought ten minutes ago. Coel brought us inside. I
want to see the Eagle fans we've changed. See first
I changed his opinion about the Steelers, who we now
things should come out and just throw it all over
the field, And now I changed his opinion on this.
I like to spend some time with you in the

(01:06:54):
important weeks. I want to see the Eagle fans all
wearing their Jeff Hosstetler jerseys this weekend, because that is
the they need to mimic. Look who brought it back
to the New York Football Giants. It's a blueprint, right,
I mean, that's it worked for them. Sorry, it's a
big blueprint for bolting. You like that. It sounds like
a highlight title. There you go, Now, PAULI, do you

(01:07:16):
have a special surprise for us to do on the
show today? Well, it's been an interesting week in the NFL.
Like we said, this show is gonna air right between
wild card and Division as all that and more fun
at hand. But that's not the beginning and end of
the news. There's been other great stories this week, including
not this isn't you know, the main one, but we
should say Greg did this podcast with a heavy heart

(01:07:36):
given the retirement of one of his favorite quarterbacks, Carson Palmer.
He soldiered through. Greg has been a big Carson Palmer
fan for years. I met him before he came to
NFL films, uh and actually sat with Ryan Jaworski and
myself when he graduated from USC That's when I first
met him, and he was a great, great well then
he was a kid, you know, so I just really

(01:07:59):
liked him person only, and I've always had a soft
spot in my heart, you know. But this goes back.
He came in a two thousand three I think it was. Yeah,
and you know that to me was what a quarterback
should look like. The game has changed to some degree.
He's so so he was so gifted throwing that that
quarterback would still be viewed as a number one pick,

(01:08:20):
but the game has changed that you have to be
truly special throwing a ball. I think if you talk
to coaches through the years, they will tell you that
he is the prototype. He's the guy that everybody would want. Now,
his career didn't turn out, you know, quite as great
for many reasons, but you can't say he didn't have
a successful NFL career. Now, he had a fascinating uh

(01:08:41):
football life. He did. He did. He'd be an interesting
guy to do. We are we are discussing it. Yeah,
he's you know, there's a lot of twists and turns
in that story. There really there are and and and
you know you know who is his college coach, Pete Carroll. Yeah,
and he was a big, big time recruit coming out
of Santa Margarita. Santa Margarita. Yeah, he retired in the

(01:09:05):
middle of his career to get out of Cincinnati. Forgot that. Yeah,
there are genuine twists and turns in the Carson Palmer story.
So he's retired for the second time. This is his
second retirement, and also in the same week as his
second retirement, was the second time a member of the
Davis family has hired one John Gruden to coach their franchise,

(01:09:26):
the Oakland Raiders, and it reminded us of a great
story John told us just this past summer. We interviewed
him for the documentary that aired a little earlier this
year on the Tuck Rule, which John Gruden has clearly
played a big part in that story. And of course
of that interview, he told us a great anecdote about
interviewing with Al Davis back when he was a candidate

(01:09:47):
for the Raiders job. So given his rehiring with the Raiders,
we thought we'd take a look back and listen to
what it was like interviewing with Al for John the
first time he took that job. Here he is John Gruden.
It was the third time I interviewed with Al Davis.
I interviewed with Al Davis to be his offensive coordinator.
After the ninety five season, I interviewed for the head

(01:10:09):
coaching job. They gave it to Joe Bugle, the next year,
and then I guess three times as a charm. But
the interview process was out with Al Davis was unforgettable.
I mean he asked you every question you could think of,
and the interview lasts for about three days. That was
scary fun and it was memorable for sure. They called
me Butch right away when he saw me. Imagine that.

(01:10:30):
He said, Butch, on third and nine, what's your best
red zone touchdown pass? On third nine from the nine?
Now I had learned from Tom Landry draw the plays
up in one color of ink, draw the blocking scheme
up and another color of ink, and draw the defense
up in another color of ink. So I'm putting the

(01:10:52):
cryans down and doing all the work. And Al Davis says, Butch,
what's wrong with the crayons? I said, I'm trying to
give you a color voted presentation. He says, don't you know,
I'm color blind. So we saw the world a little
bit alike, but not when it came to the magic markers.
Were you aware that coach Bill Belichick was also position

(01:11:13):
at that time? Yeah? I talked to coach Belichick during
that process, and I'm sure it was his job if
he wanted it, but at that time, no one wanted
that job. Everybody was scared of the situation. They were
scared of Al Davis, scared of move into California, probably
scared of the black hole. I don't know, but I
had no fear, no reservations, none. I was a young guy.
I believed in myself. I knew I could get some

(01:11:34):
good coaches, and I really wanted to be a Raider.
I wanted to be UH an Oakland Raider coaching for
Al Davis. I figured, if I was judged by anybody
in the business, I'd rather be judged by a man
that was coach of the year, commissioner of the league,
and somebody that never had anything to do with football.
We're welcome him back to the league, Jon Gruden. It's

(01:11:55):
a better league when he's on the sidelines. And I
would say, you know, kids, if you want to take
one lesson from the John Gruden story, a man who
has just signed a ten year, some reportedly a hundred
million dollar contract, just find something you love and do it,
because look how much this guy loves football. It's it
oozes from him when you're in his presence, when you

(01:12:16):
see him on television, and clearly it's it's led to
a level success. Will he win another Super Bowl? Who knows,
but he's had to use causes phrase a pretty nice
football life based on his passion for this game. So
we're excited to have him back. That was you doing
that interview, right? It was? Yeah, I interviewed him once.
I've entered. I've had the opportunity interview a couple of
times and and both instances were memberable. Somebody wrote something

(01:12:38):
this week about some of Gruden's intelligence is he's just
a great big picture thinker. And the first time I
interviewed him, we went into that tape bunker that he
had down in Tampa the time, and it was, of course,
probably five in the morning when we had when he
wanted us to show up, and there's no other cars around.
We go in there and he was super polite, but
he was so focused watching it, and he had a

(01:12:58):
television on in the background round and uh, George Steinbrenner
had died that week. So we're talking to him about
football whatever, and he kind of looks over and he goes,
you know, George Steinbrenner. Everybody wants to talk about how
he fired Billy Martin and how he did this and
now he did that. Anybody want to talk about how
many baseball fields he's built around Tampa, how many funerals
he's paid for. Gruden had this whole other outlook on Steinbrenner,

(01:13:22):
and it just it struck me as as as much
as everybody wants to focus on his love for football,
which I just did, there's more to the guy. Uh
And And like I said, he's he's he's fun to watch,
he's fun to listen to, he's fun to interview. And
I'm excited that we'll be back on our sidelines. You know,
when I first met Groud, he was a coach with
the Eagles. I think you started out maybe it was

(01:13:45):
ninety six or so. He was a young offensive Yeah,
he may have been the coordinator, I forget, but he was.
He was in Philly and on that same staff with
Sean Payton and Bill Callahan. Okay, so I get a
phone call from the Eagles that Callahan, Peyton, and Gruden
want to come to NFL Films, you know, for a tour.
Here they are They've never really spent any time in

(01:14:06):
the Philadelphia area. They're all football guys. They want to
come to NFL films. So I got a call from
the Eagles and they came over and I gave those
three guys a tour of NFL films. That's the first
time I met those guys nineties, So I guess it
was nineties six. All right, Well, who's ready for my

(01:14:28):
Gruden story Pittsburgh? Right? I was. I was a young
a youngster feeling my has had a little bit of success.
It was right after they won the Super Bowl and
I was sent to Tampa to do an interview. We
used to sit in a halftime feature on Monday Night Football.
This was going to be the first one of the year.

(01:14:50):
The following season. Week one, watching Why we would sit
down with a guy and he would watch his when
we have him miked up in the game, and we
would do an interview about it. And so this was
him miked up in the super Bowl and I'm an
interview Gruden about it, and he, you know, he is
a master of profanity on the sideline. One of the
best there's ever been, or ever will be his language

(01:15:12):
and the way everything about his language fascinated me. So
I studied that wire for weeks and I went down
and I had a line of questioning about the way
he spoke to his coaches, the way he used profanity
strategically or not, and something about it really rubbed him

(01:15:33):
the wrong way. And when I left, we got a
call from the Bucks that little guy that came down here,
coach doesn't want to see him again. Really, I got
banned for Tampa. I got banned going back to Tampa.
During Cruden's interview, I have never once worked with him

(01:15:55):
in the six seventeen years since then. My guess is
he probably hasn't forgotten that either. Uh, he doesn't forget anything.
I would think he has forgotten. That's my Gruden story. Well,
Coach Gruden, welcome back, Welcome back, see out there all right,
shall we wrap it up? Hit it? Thanks to our

(01:16:21):
engineer Steve Moseley, our producer Rich Owens, and to the
NFL films guru Greg Hosal for joining us today to
reflect on the wild card weekend and look forward to
this weekend divisional football on Saturday and Sunday. Be sure
to catch Greg's show NFL Matchup on ESPN. ESPN to

(01:16:41):
this weekend, and be sure to uh catch all of
our shows all over your dial. Go to our social channels,
uh and enjoy the football. This You could argue this
is the best football weekend of the year. That's what
Steve used to say, Divisional weekends week love this weekend.

(01:17:02):
Enjoy it, folks. From the home of America's football movies
in Mount law On, New Jersey. I'm Paul, I'm Keith.
Take care.