The NFL Films Podcast: John Randle

Paul and Keith talk with Hall of Fame Defensive Lineman John Randle about his life and career. Topics include Randle's intense on field demeanor (24:04), his upbringing in Texas (27:35) and his unusual favorite snack (29:48). Producers Bob Angelo and Neil Zender join the show (02:05) to give a behind the scenes look at the making of John Randle: A Football Life. Finally, the guys talk with Bob about his illustrious 43-season career as a multi-faceted producer/camera operator as he finishes up his last season before retirement (41:27).

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:23):
up today. Go to grasshopper dot com slash films to
get twenty dollars off your first month. That's grasshopper dot
com slash films. Today on the NFL Films Podcast, we
take a long look at John Randall a football life

(00:45):
with the producers of the film, Bob Angelo and Neil's Ender.
We will talk to John Randall himself Hall of Fame
defensive tackle for the Minnesota Vikings, and we'll also talk
even more in depth with Bob Angelo, an NFL Films
Hall of Famer after forty three seasons, coming to the
end of his remarkable career, and we're gonna hear all

(01:07):
about it. A tremendous episode of the NFL Films Podcast.
I'm Paul, I'm Keith. Welcome aboard everyone. It's nice to
start the show with such a soulful Sam Spence NFL

(01:31):
Films Original Hi Neil, Hi, Hi, And Hello Hi Paul,
Hello Keith. You won't find a bigger fan of NFL
Films music than these two guys, certainly not Neil's ender.
Nothing better than Sam Spence, Paul. Yes, Keith, I have
a question, Yes, who is John Randall? Well? I know

(01:53):
who John Randall is. I know he's a football Hall
of Famer. I didn't know anything much more beyond I
knew a little more about him, but not not nearly
what I know now after watching this incredible film, this guy,
these guys put together, I wouldn't have known, let me
start here. I would have known he was a guy
that was worthy of a football life film and an
extended exploration of his life, both on and off of

(02:15):
the football field. But Bob Angelo, you'll hear us call
him and for the rest of this podcast, So don't
let that throw you. Bob, you certainly knew that John
was somebody that was worth taking a long, hard look at.
Why was that? How did you know John's story so? Well?
Hold that thought before you can even answer the question,
just a little more context. We are in the presence
of of of NFL Films greatness today, Paul, we have

(02:39):
sixty three seasons of NFL Films experience with us today.
Neil Zender, coordinating producer at NFL Films UM, has been
here twenty years. And the great legendary Bob Angelo, who
if you watch NFL football now, this is you see

(03:00):
the NFL Films guys. When you're watching the broadcast of
a game where special blue vests, that's how you know
it's an NFL Films guy and not the guy shooting
the game for the network now and is the guy
in a blue vest who also wears sleeveless shirts almost
every weekend, especially when he's in the Dome in Minnesota.

(03:22):
He's flexing and see his guns blazing in stadiums across
America in your TV on your TV screen in your
living room for decades and is one of the greatest
cinematographers and producers we've ever had in NFL films and
this is his final season. So now, after that long

(03:45):
parenthetical answer the question, who better to tell us why
John Randall was worth this story? And John Randall is
the only interior alignment. By that I mean a nose
tackle or defensive tackle to be in the top ten
in sacks for a career. In fact, if you look

(04:06):
at those numbers, I think he's the only pure interior
alignement in the top. Ironically, the closest is a former teammate,
Henry Thomas, a guy who did a lot of the
dirty work so that John could succeed as a pass rusher.
That and the fact that John Randall is one of
the most entertaining wires that NFL films has ever did,

(04:29):
so much so that we wired him five different times,
each one better than the one before. And then, as
Neil will point out, as rags to richest stories go,
none surpasses John. John grew up in poverty that none
of us have ever heard of and rose from that

(04:51):
to the highest pinnacle in the National Football League. A
guy who never won a championship, never on a championship team,
but nonetheless was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of
Fame in his second year. Just to give everyone a
reminder of who John Randall is. This is the sounds
of one of the greatest wires in NFL films history.

(05:13):
And NFL you planned against a bunch of guys who
are crazy most of the guys, though, are pretending to
be crazy? Now, Johnny, you didn't leave a game playing
against him thinking is this guy pretending come on over?
If you didn't know him and you just watched him

(05:38):
and heard him play, you swear this guy's nuts literally,
bona fide certifiable nuts. Fuck a snice fuck a sne
I hated playing against John Randall. You had to listen

(05:58):
to him psychologically talking you down, telling me he's, you know,
come sack you and he's gonna do w W walk
over the top of you. John Randall. I'm sure that's
something to say the rat five what it just kind

(06:22):
of added toe of the aura of John Randall. So
that's Chris Carter talking about John Randall being crazy on
the field and his former a former assistant on that
Vikings team in the nineties, Brian Billick as well as
the great Brett Farve, Randall's number one rival, talking about

(06:46):
Randall on the field. So, Neil Randall played for the Vikings,
he played for the Seahawks. We know you knew that
being a Seahawk fan, But when you do a dive
like this into a guy, what's something you didn't know
about John Randall? That's to emerge when you watch five
wires worth of three plus hours on the field and
do the paper research. What what were some things that

(07:07):
started to emerge to you in the early stages of
researching this film. The first thing that jumped out of
to me was that this this guy's life can't be real.
This is a fairy tale, Like this is something that
if a Hollywood screenwriter wrote it up, you would say,
this is this is too far fetched to be a
Hallmark Channel Christmas movie or whatever. He's just like this

(07:30):
stuff doesn't happen in real life. But it does, and
it did, and it happened in his life, and he
you know, and mentioned rags to riches like this is
the greatest ranks the richest story in the history of
the NFL, and and that was a story that people
needed to hear. What was your first experience working with
John on this project. We went out to his hometown

(07:53):
a Mumford, Texas to uh film the b roll for
the Open and Close, and our plan was to basically
have bookends for the film where the start of the
film would be John walking around the ruins or what
was left to the check that he grew up in
and then sort of reminiscing on his whole life and
how he started off that from there and where he
went from there in such an improbable journey, and then

(08:17):
ending with him at the end of the film. Uh,
walking out of that field. All that's all that's left
of it is a is a field. It looks like, uh,
you know, American Gothic or something out of the stereotype
of the Heartland or whatever, big big, long, waving grass
in the wind. Uh. I've never been a Mumfort. I mean,
what does it looks like Manhattan? Does it look like Philadelphia?
What's it looked like? Momfort looks like the kind of

(08:38):
place where the populations about twenty five, including livestock. I mean,
there's a couple of different houses, there's a gravel road.
There used to be a call your Store, which is
just like the one stop grocery store that was there,
and the call your Store has gone now. But I mean,
just to give an example, when John and his brothers
were growing up, they didn't have a car. The nearest

(08:59):
town with the high school was twenty miles away. So
I mean literally what they would do when a car
would drive by that would be an event and they
would sit and and there's a train tracks there too,
and the trains rumble be freight trains rumbled by all
the time, and John and his brothers would sit and
just watch the cars and watch the trains and wondering
like where are they going? Where are they coming from?

(09:19):
And where are they going? And their their whole world
was based on how far they could walk. You went
to Mumford with a plan. You knew in your head
the footage that you had of him as a player,
but you needed to capture this place. And you mentioned
the book ends at the beginning and the end of
the film. Tell us about your plan for the very
last shot of the film. We wanted to sort of
shoot the start of I mean, light filming wise is

(09:42):
always the best at sunrise or sunset. That's when you
get Golden Hour and Blue hours. What's right before and
after Golden Hour. So we wanted to film him at
the start of the film blue hour, uh, the golden
now our sunrise, like right walking through the field because
the light would be the best and you have the
most dramatic high trash lighting. And then we wanted the
end of the film to be sunset and him walking

(10:03):
off into suns into the sunset and try to make it.
The goal going in was to make it match as
closely as possible the last shot of the open to
the Football Life credits. We wanted it to sort of,
you know, reverberate or or subconsciously strike a chord in
your head that was somewhat similar to that doesn't completely
work out that way, but we wound up with something

(10:23):
that was even better. This film really lives in this
unique creative space. I mean it's it's in some ways
like like many of our shows. It's a follow doc
and Bob's been following John for years. We've been making
him up. We followed him during the course of this production.
But it also has some Hollywood elements in terms of
a very particular, very unique piece of staging that became

(10:45):
the centerpiece of John's story and the presentation of john story. Now,
I wanted you to just kind of talk through, describe
what that set was and kind of what the origin
story of the set was. Well, we started researching John's life.
The first thing we figured out was the definitive thing
and the thing that shaped him was how he grew up.
He grew up in a twenty by twenty ft shack

(11:07):
in rural Texas, and it was a degree of poverty
to which none of us can really imagine or comprehend.
And instead of just sort of having him talk about it,
that shack wasn't there anymore. It had been gone for
almost uh two decades. We had no real way to
show it except for stills. We wanted to take John

(11:28):
back in that world so that it was real, and
we wanted to show viewers what it was like to
be him and where he came from and how he
made it. And we started brainstorming different ways to do it.
Should we go find a similar shack, should we shoot
in one? And at some point somebody said, why don't
we just build it? So you know, it was like
field of dreams. We went out and we UH Steve

(11:50):
penny Packer, who was a prop guy, just drew up
plans designed to shack. Bob reached out to John and said,
we want to do this. And then what Bob did
is he basedically UH went through with John every little
detail of what was in that shack. We got pictures
and recreated things from pictures. We use the exact same wallpapering. UH.
The same wood paneling on the walls, like we matched

(12:12):
everything we possibly could to be as real as possible
so that he would feel like he was going back
in time and experiencing, uh, what his childhood was like.
You wanted to put John in the physical space to
try and rekindle the emotions in the in the head
space he was in when he grew up in it.
What are the advantages of that as a storyteller? Why
is that a technique that you've adopted. Well, the first

(12:34):
thing is with an interview subject, the second they walk
into the set and see that it's not just a
hotel room and it's not just a natural background, or
it's not just a curtain behind them, it says this
is different and that we're taking your story seriously, and
we're taking it to a level that nobody else has
ever taken it before. And you get the subject's respect
right away the second that you do that. So here's

(12:57):
the moment when John walks onto the set for the
first time. Um, and we'll come back and talk about this,
because it's an incredibly interesting moment and one that we
debated intensely whether we should include it in the film.
Even a recreation on a sound stage brings back memories. Ooh,

(13:20):
that's television bad. That's until we had Yeah, we have
lamp similarists too. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Oh my god,
I'm sorry. Motion Okay, So just to paint a picture

(13:47):
for for what we just heard. That was John Randall
walking into the NFL film sound stage, which had been
transformed into this replica of the interior of this twenty
shock that he grew up in. And he walks out
there with Neil Zender, the producer of the film, um
and they walked out together, and it was something that

(14:09):
we almost decided the day before, maybe we should just
get a camera and and capture his reaction when he
sees the set for the first time, just in case
there's an emotional reaction. And and that's the way it
went down. I'm gonna be very curious when we talked
to John later what his reaction is um to seeing

(14:29):
that scene play out in the film itself. But Neil,
I would like to get into a little deeper about,
you know, our process of how we arrived at using
it in the film, and in the debate we had
and and and the hesitation we had about using it. Well,
first number one. The reason the moment happened was because
we wanted to be authentic. So NFL Films is in

(14:52):
South Jersey, twenty minutes from Philadelphia. John was in town
for the NFL Draft, So we just said, why don't
you come over to nf ALL Films and look at
the set because we want to make sure that it's
real and that it's authentic. And that way, we've got
another two days before the interview, we can go ahead
and make any corrections so that it's authentic and real
to you. And so John walked in, Uh, you know,

(15:16):
cause suggested that why don't we just have a camera
there you never know what's going to happen. And he
walked in and he reacted very emotionally to that, and
it was a really powerful moment creatively. Uh, the question
we had about is, well, should we put this film
in this moment or not? Because it's a real meta thing,
Like now we're showing you that this is a film
and part of it is a little artificial. Is this

(15:39):
something that we want to show people that you want
to you want to keep people always in the moment
of him being in that check or do we want
to step back and and hey, this is a set,
and this is how we reacts to it, and this
is John Randall's reaction to us making a film about him. Yeah,
the film learns term for it is breaking the fourth
wall right right now, letting you in on the artifice
of what of what the film is, which was which

(16:01):
was not the original intent at all. But the great
irony is it almost made the whole thing more real
in a way. Getting John's reaction to it not only
to me validates what you created in terms of the
authenticity you mentioned, but it also demonstrates another level of
him as a person. And what it stirred up in
him was not something even in an interview sometimes you'll

(16:24):
ramp into an emotion, but that there's such a purity
and how he reacts to that and and seeing it unfold,
I think, really tells you a lot about him, as
much as you know, as much as any wire bite could.
And he related it to events in his professional career.
Living in a dorm room with Eddie McDaniel reminded him
of sleeping in the same bed with his two older brothers,

(16:48):
two large men by the time they were in high school,
with little John, the youngest brother in the middle opening
the refrigerator and seeing what little there was in there,
and you know, and likening that to Robert Smith saying,
what is that as he looks at a plate at
training camp, and it's just the same meal John used
to eat when he was twelve years old, because that's

(17:08):
what his mother left in the refrigerator. That's all there
was to eat that night. The shoes, the water bucket
where he took a bath, all those those details were
the things that John looked at. And as Neil said,
he had great respect for the fact that we went
to a lot of time and trouble to reproduce this
to make it authentic and to give John the context

(17:29):
to react, and he did, and it should be noted
and correct me if I'm wrong, Neil, I remember talking
about this. It's not as though there's great documentary evidence
of what this was. You guys had very limited resources
in terms of what your inspiration wasn't in order to
kind of glean the details to put it together. And
that's what was great about John is like every time
we I mean and would send him ten text messages
messages a day or call him on the phone, Hey,

(17:51):
what was what was the was the paneling on the wall?
Like what kind of TV set did you have? How
big was it? Was it black and white or was
it callor like like all sorts of details, what color
should be? Stow beat. We sent him angel texting, you know,
pictures of different stoves and say what's the right type
of stove? I mean like we wanted to hit every
single detail so that it could be as real as possible.
The washtub was the one that got him. The washtub

(18:14):
back in that day was used for animals, and that's
what John and his brother bathe. Then let's listen to
the John talk about the tub which on the set,
and and Neil had had found and and and Penny Packer,
the props guy, had found a tub that was very
close to what John actually bathed them as a child.

(18:35):
I don't like taking bath now were sitting in that tub?
Well us, it was a normal way of life. When
I went to a store, I saw one of them
tubs and I'm like looking at it and it was
like something that people use for for animals. That's what
we had in the house. That's something that animal used.

(18:57):
At what point did you realize, Neil, that we needed
to somehow find a way to transport the audience into
this world that he grew up and because it is
so extreme. Uh, every story, or not every story, but
a lot of football NFL players have a rags to
richest story. But the more we researched John Randall, we
could see like this was the REGs the richest story

(19:19):
of all rags the richest story, and he had all
the elements of if you're a filmmaker or a storyteller
or a mythologists, all the elements of the hero's journey.
Here's somebody like Luke Skywalker who's in the middle of nowhere,
who nobody thinks is important in any sort of a ways,
and an insignificant person who's in a difficult uh family situation,

(19:42):
whose father largely abandoned him and mistreated him, and nobody
who nobody really believes in. And then his older brother
sets an example for him that he can achieve to
do something. And then, like a lot of heroes in
the hero's journey, first they get the call to go
do something great and they try in it down, like
John Randall figured out in high school, he was a

(20:02):
good football player, but he didn't want to do the work.
You want to be a garbage man, as he talks
about in our film. So I'd be in a garbageman
would be great. I can be home at two o'clock,
I can sit in the porch, I can I can
drink beer. Like what's better than that? I got a
secure job, Like, that's all I want out of life.
You see these garbageman working work for the city, that
city benefits. That's gonna be my job. I'm gonna be

(20:25):
a garbage man. Let start working by six, be done
by noon. Drink some cold beer. I got made in shade.
So it was the hero's journey on paper. It was
the hero's journey revealed in the interview. But what you
couldn't see in that clip, what you'd see in the
film is this remarkable storytelling shot of John driving down
the street. Was it in in Mumford and he's he's

(20:45):
actually watching garbageman work on the street. As as you
guys captured, I want to just talk about your shoot
plan with John. What was your plan to capture the
Hero's Journey on location with John out in the world. Well,
first off, the great thing is that, like John wanted
his story to be told and so when we said
don't we want we want you to do these things

(21:05):
and it will take time to do these things. Were sure, whatever,
however much time you need. So we were able to
shoot things because we would let us shoot them. And
we got to thank the you know, the city of
Hern because like we were there. I can't remember what day.
It was a two zero Wednesday of the week, like
they're not picking up trash and Mumford on Tuesday. But
we called them and said, will you send a trash
garbage truck out to Mumford, you know, thirty minutes from Hern,

(21:28):
so we can, and they sent. They sent a trash
truck up and started picking up trash, and people started
rolling their trash out of the end of the driveways
because they wanted John Randall's story to be told. So
in a couple of minutes, we're going to talk to
John Um. But and I'm curious, Um, you know what,
what do you expect his reaction to be? What? You know,

(21:48):
what are you hoping to hear from John? Knowing him
all these years after having finally made the film that
tells the story of his life, John, in spite of
his outgoing nature on the football field, and that character
that he played has a very deep strain of humility.
He grew up poor. He had to remind himself even

(22:11):
when he was a pro bowler that I'm playing pro
football instead of picking cotton. I am doing this instead
of driving a garbage truck, and I'm getting paid for it.
I think John is going to love what we did
for his life because it's accurate. We didn't have to
make this stuff up. John lived it. It's real, and

(22:32):
John appreciated the time and trouble we went to to
reproduce his home, the shock that no longer exists. All right,
let's uh, let's talk to John. Hey John, this is

(22:55):
Keith Cosro and I'm with Paul Camerata and uh we
host the NFL Elms podcast, and we are with the
guys who made your film, your friend, Bob Angelo and
Neil Sender. Okay, right, we are really excited to have
you on to talk about the film and to get
your reaction to your own football life episode. What do

(23:16):
you think? Oh, unbelievable. I'm a little bit like verse
because I didn't think my life would that, you know,
I think it was that glamorous. You might want to
do a story about it. You're being modest, John, Well,
you know, I'm just what I am? Well, what do

(23:38):
we What did the guys screw up? That that's the
that's the important question here. What did what did Ange
and Neil leave out? What did they miss? Uh? Not
that I'm think I don't think you missed anything. Well
that's good to hear. Yeah, I thought you might want
us to have said that, Hey, I could play the
run too. I wasn't one to mentional. I never came

(24:01):
off the field, you know what. You could say that,
But you know, John Turley, I always say later, run
on the way to the quarterback. So I played it.
I played it all on the way to the quarterback
hundred and thirty seven and a half times, Sir John.

(24:22):
We were talking before about, you know, the character that
you were on the field, that who became legendary and famous,
and who intimidated and and and made players laugh alike.
And you know, I want to play something for you
that didn't make the film. This is your old teammate
Chris Carter describing you on the field. Who touch me?

(24:47):
He had some type of rule that if you touched
his uniform or his body that it's zapped him of
his power. What do you talk to me, Mad? Talk
to me, Man, talk to me Mad. You could talk
to hing, but you could not make physical contact with them.
I'm glad we're on the same team. So, um, John,

(25:11):
is that real? Does that? I mean, first of all,
you'll have to explain to us what that was about.
And and second of all, get into to what extent
this character you were on the field was invented? And
to what extent this was just you, you know, being
being you on the field. Oh my God made it

(25:32):
for who I had to be on the football field.
I'm so far from that person. Uh. I'm more of
a friendly so well, you know, just kind of a
feel good guy. But to be the player that I

(25:53):
knew I had to be on the football field involved
and uh but you know, I was fortunate enough to
have uh players around me who helped mold me and
to become the player I had to be. I mean,

(26:15):
from the the Jack dear Rios and uh the John
Turlin was the one who kind of taught us about
being we called it being a sacred cow until us.
He was such such a unique coach that he came
in one day he goes guy, get a little of this.

(26:37):
This is what I just read. There's this country and
he's kind of animated when he goes, there's this country.
I don't know where it's at, but there's these cows
that us just walking down the street and these people
are starting and they can't even touch these cows. He goes,

(26:57):
but that's starting. Then he goes at eating berry and
there's these sacred cows is walking down the streets, and
he goes, that's how we gotta see ourselves. We are
sacred cows. And no one, I mean no one, even
though teammate, touch you, because you've got to be sacred

(27:18):
cows when you get on that field. Remember that. So
you know, we'd be walking around and all of Sutton
John Towey was touching in your chest, and you know,
it's like, goes, I'm not supposed to do that. I'm
not supposed be able to touch you. You are a
sacred cow. And so we started going by that you

(27:40):
don't believe in that, saying hey, let's sacred cows. And
it came it became a mindset that on Sunday morning
before the game, do not let anybody touch you. John.
There's a great thread throughout this whole film. The strategy
the guys used of recreating your our childhood home UH

(28:02):
is obviously a big part of the film. Just want
to ask a couple of questions about that. This is
this is when's the last time you were in that structure?
Oh God, the last time I went there was in
UH was in like uh nineteen nay seven was last

(28:24):
time I was in it. So it's been a while.
So what was it like walking back into it as
as much as as much as possible when you came
to came her NFL Films and walked down on our
on our stage. There is a clip of it in
the show, but kind of kind of bring me back
to walking through that door and seeing that home. It
felt like a time war. I mean, I never really

(28:47):
thought that that was a possibility. No. Bob was talking about, Hey,
you know what, we're gonna redo this, and I'm like, okay, yeah,
that's gonna be a pop chant. We have a couple
of pictures on all and you know that they were
luch attempt to do it, but and it was realistic.
I mean, it's it caught me for appement moment because

(29:10):
like going back at the time when you know that
that house was so as you walked in there, it
was warm, it was very human in there. Uh, being
in the window, the comfined quarters. Uh, just how uncomfortable
it was, and uh you know that little small television. Uh,

(29:33):
it's just so realistic. Were you surprised to see that? Um,
Neil and Bob used that moment in the film when
you walked in with Neil and saw the set for
the first time, the recreation of the house, because it's
something we debated for a long time here whether whether
we should use it in the film about you. When

(29:55):
I saw it, man, it just it just it caught me.
It's just all those memories when I was a kids.
Dog came rushing back. One of the things when we
were shooting that introduced me to that didn't make the film.
Maybe you can tell people about because because I learned
it from you and now I do it all the time.
Tell everybody about how you like, how you like to
drink coke with peanuts. Oh man, yeah, oh my god,

(30:18):
that see that. I mean where I grew up on
a Saturday, these people were like, go to look at
two store and they will get all kind of dressed
up and the top of all Crimina krim was getta
get a soda, uh in a bottle and take the peanuts.

(30:42):
Put the peanuts in that soda. And that was kind
of like a almost like a roof bit of floats
or like champagne to them. And they were sit there, man,
and they would do that. I was just like, wow,
you know, it was kind of like Lad's Missing Sea
for a Saturday evening. You gotta put that on the

(31:05):
menu at Randall's, John, you gotta get the coke with
peanuts on there, so so folks can can experience it
for themselves. Uh, sostomers not drive away. I think it
tastes pretty good. Hey, I'll believe it, I know. But

(31:25):
if you know what not everybody, John, did you know
we captured you doing a swim move on a customer
at Randall's. We were upstairs watching you walk through the restaurant,
tracking you, and you came to a table and you
did a swim with your right arm and got to
the quarterback or the kitchen. Well, you know what. That
goes back to what John Chilly, But he has still

(31:47):
doing it. You know, he said pass rushing. It's something
that you have to treat it as second You have
to be treated to the point where the quarterback it's
like it's like you breathe in a walking. You got
to do that to be successful at it. You got

(32:08):
to create that image. And so that's the way I
in busines. So West came second nature. And uh, you
know I used to tell us that, you know, you
go a businessman takes his briefcase, takes his files, he goes,
You've got to take home your pass rushing. It became

(32:28):
this second nature, you know, John talking about pass rushing. Uh.
Something that we didn't know to ask you when we
were did the interview for the film. But from going
through every game that you played, that that we picked
up on is in so many games you wouldn't do anything.
First quarter, wouldn't do anything. Second quarter either late in
the second quarter, early in the third quarter, you'd beat

(32:49):
a guy and then in like the next twelve or
fifteen snaps should beat him in like eleven snaps. And
if you didn't sack the quarterback, you'd break up the play.
What what sort of happened that one should be the
guy once? It meant you were gonna beat him eight
or nine times in the next couple of plays and
what was going on there that is about that old

(33:10):
country bar in league. You know, it was like all
I masks was an opening a hitch. Just give me
a chance. I get a chance, and I speak something
when I when I play, it's like I'm still that
kid from mont texas drop in that small town and
you know, there's a little doubt in me. And and

(33:33):
all of a sudden that the game, you know, starts
to go on, and all of a sudden, I started
to get more and more confident in myself and my
my play all kind of comes out like, yeah, you
know what, you can do this, You can do this.
And first us you're playing, Yes, you're playing the National
Football League. Then you wanna if you wanna, you wanna,

(33:55):
you want to start making plays. And once you start
making plays, you all sudden say all right, now I
can be a big I can be a factor. And
I saw myself to being a factor in the game,
you know, And sudden, if game goes on, the guy
my phone it seems to be get tired. I feel

(34:16):
stronger as the game goes on, and uh quarter most
guys have worn out. I'm just feeling more confident feeling
better and just getting stronger. John, I I'm not sure
in the history of the NFL there was ever a
better guy to mike up than you. And we were
talking before, and we think Anne and the gang miked

(34:37):
you up five times in your career, and I'm curious
if you were one of the guys. I think there's
two ways people can go with being miked up. One
type of guy is aware of it and has a
hard time forgetting that he's miked up, and and the
other type of guy never even knows it and just
totally forgets about it, which to you, I'm the one

(34:58):
who all of a sudden says because I mean the
first time I was miked up, I was trying to
be like, you know what I'm I'm miked up. I
gotta be trouble what I'm saying. I just want I
was almost like too conscious. I bought some Mike and
then all of a sudden, it's dawne on me. I go,
you know what, I go, just like and still I'm

(35:20):
I I'm in my backyard, I mean somebody else's backyard.
I go, I can't worry about that, Mike. I gotta
go out here and lay the way I play, I
want to play you. I mean, it's it's just fun
to to to get your reaction now, like let's spend
thirty seconds and listen, listen to you on the field
and then and then have you you know, I want

(35:41):
to hear your reaction now to hearing yourself back in
the day regulate a mound up. We're coming, Damn, I'm
gonna con But I used to all these bright lights

(36:02):
over you, used to being in front of all these people.
I've worked you before, John, I know how you talk
out there. You enjoy listening to it now, did you
when you watch the show and you see all these
clips together in one place, I'm a little bit I'm
a little bit in barred because when I when I
gotta say, when I played, I hadn't going to this.

(36:25):
Almost like like being an actor, you have to go
into that zone or into that get into that character
to be that that guy, be that first. And I'm
SI a little bit embarrassed because you know, it's it's
it's me. But I'm like, yeah, it's me, but it's
really not me, because yeah, that's just a different character. John.

(36:48):
We talked about the portion of the film about your
upbringing in your back story where you grew up in Mumford.
One of the other really powerful portions obviously comes later
in the film, the story of your son. And I'm
just curious how he's doing today. All he's doing well,
he's doing He's doing pretty well. Um, He's that thirteen.
Makes me proud to see you, know as how I

(37:13):
founded on the football field, and and to turn around
and see the battle that he's gone through to be
here on this planet Earth, and you know, it's it's just, uh,
this just shows me how tuple of person he is.
And uh, it just makes get Paul works well to

(37:33):
be here and to see him and and sear thing
that he's going to leave. He's the Hall of Famer
in mind, like father, like son, John, Yes, John, I
hope I didn't put Candice through too much in that interview.
I Uh, I wanted her to walk us through it,

(37:53):
and she did, and she got to that point where
I I was pretty sure she'd she drained all the
ocean out. And I hope she enjoyed reliving that part.
Now that Jonathan is here and healthy and enjoying his
teenage years, she can look back on it and think, Wow,
my husband really was there for me and my and

(38:13):
my son. Yeah, you know it was a tough time
because you never want to vis your child go through
something like that. And uh, if anything, it's sting our
family bond and it just made us overall just strong family.
But you know we we wasn't tour and we made

(38:34):
it and uh it's something that we would, like you said,
would never forget and uh, but it's just it's just
just emotional times. Well, John, thank you for everything you've
done for NFL Films over the years and and taking
a few minutes to talk about the film with us today.
Thank you, all right, take care of Johnny. All right,

(39:08):
the Hall of Famer John Randall taking some time with
us on the NFL Films podcast. Guys, Neil, Bob, are
you relieves happy to hear uh the Big Man's reaction
to the film. I had a feeling he would like it.
We Neil drew up a great outline. John gave us

(39:31):
a tremendously candid interview. Everyone who talked about John spoke
glowingly of him, but his opponents also travel to the
dark side. So we it's a pretty complete picture of
one of the most unique football players I've ever met
in forty three years in this business. I just think

(39:52):
it's it's amazing and a great experience to tell a story,
uh of of somebody who sends a message to everybody
that no matter what's situation you're in, if you work
hard and you apply yourself, you can be successful and
you can make it. And John made it, his older
brother made it like and if he can make it,
anybody can. Let's sneak in a plug for our friends

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(41:39):
com slash films. There's a lot of unique aspects of
this film. Uh, we've talked about a few of them
here today, but one of them and is your role
on it? And I want to start out kind of
giving a little backstory on on all of our roles here.
So we're all called producers. It's kind of a misnomer,
right Keith, relative to the rest of the industry, the

(42:00):
industry that does what we do. Yeah, there's they have
a terrible term for what we do. Now, what is
for what a lot of us do Predator a terrible word.
I mean, it's a great movie. I mean if we
all looked like the predator in the in the Schwarzenegger movie,
that would be cool. But predator is a mash up
of the words producer, editor, which is what originally in

(42:20):
the original construct of NFL films, a producer was essentially
an editor, writer, you know, and who would sometimes go
out and direct the rare features and documentaries we did,
right and but incorrect. My first business card said writer, editor,
and at some point that just kind of morphed into
producer and they so this place may have invented the

(42:41):
predator predator one point. Oh yeah. So then we like
about the time we came here, like people would say
what are you and you'd say a producer, and like
our job description didn't really match what other producers in
the industry were doing, which was a lot more field
producing and directing. Now, as time's gone on, we've all
become much more proficient directors, and you know, we're doing

(43:04):
much more documentary work now. So now we have producers
of various um ages and experience working here during the
season sixty full time, and they write and they edit,
and they direct h only one of them shoots, Bob
Angelo and that's you. From the from the Steve Sable tradition,

(43:26):
he was. He was a cameraman, turn, producer, writer, editor, director,
did it all? Uh, you're the only one left who
does it? And so Keith described Bob's role on Sunday's
um shooting action at game, shooting sink, sound, shooting wires.
Obviously that extends to the interviews. You do it all.
But what what's interesting to me and when which I

(43:46):
which we know but hopefully you can explain, is what
advantage has that given you over the years and being
a storyteller, being the guy who is going to hold
the camera, is going to talk to the talent, and
also is going to be putting the piece together back
after the material has been captured. Well, it helps because
I also played quarterback in high school and was recruited

(44:07):
to play quarterback in college quite a few but the
biggest would have been Penn State back in nineteen as
at the end of my junior year, I got a
phone call and I really upset my high school coach
when I told Mr. P Turneaux I really didn't want
to play Wait, wait, did he not want to turn
you into a linebacker. No, I only wait a hundred

(44:27):
and forty seven pounds as a junior. And he laughed
at me on the phone and said, we have managers, you,
We have managers yours, in that classic voice of his.
But um, I didn't want to play college football. I
had no interest. M However, I did like professional football,
and I had been watching NFL film stuff willingly ever

(44:48):
since it's it came on the air in nineteen sixty
four and sixty five. And by the time I finished
grad school at Northwestern, I had written Steve Sable a
pile of letters and really wanted to work here. But
long story short, to answer your question, I came here, uh,
with background as a football player and a journalism degree,

(45:09):
a broadcast journalism degree, and some experience and a little
bit of experience shooting a camera. When I got here,
as you said, Steve Sable shot, and all of the
producers who were going places, all of the producers who
basically held sway around NFL films at all, shot, I said, Well,

(45:29):
I played high school quarterback. I know what's going on
in a football field. I can do this too. I
wanted to follow the action around the football field and
move around a football field to put myself in the
best position to capture the action. How did I know
where that was? Because I played. I could sense when
teams had to throw the ball and when I had
to be downfield as opposed to behind the line of scrimmage,

(45:49):
knowing that this defense is kicking the crap out of
this offense. Everything's coming this way. And I got pretty
good at predicting that right away, as did the other
guys who were doing the same as me. Now I'm
the only guy still doing that, simply because I enjoy
that more than anything else that I do here and
always have, other than um producing live to tape television

(46:11):
or live television or directing live TV. So you were
never going to put the camera down. Well, at the
end of this season will be my last, but uh no,
I and I always felt so long as I can
still do it to the level that satisfies my standards,
I'll keep doing it. And I've kept myself in shape
over the years to make that make that possible, and

(46:32):
really enjoyed being out there. And these days when I
walk on a football field, I'm actually now talking to
the kids of the guys I shot the first time around.
My favorite example of that is is um Channing Crowder
with the Miami Dolphins. Now he's not there anymore, but
he was a linebacker. And I looked at the name
played on his jersey, looked at inside his helmets that

(46:54):
might be I said, is your dad Randy? And he
looked at me and said, who's asking? I said, we
failed our swimming test together at Penn State. Oh my
old man still can't swim. And and and it's it's
moments like that that that make this whole thing worthwhile
for me. It should be stated that along the way,

(47:15):
I think and invented what we like to call, you know,
the sideline sink crew UM, which in NFL films parlance
you often see sound bites UM when you see NFL
films game packages from the sideline, coaches talking excess and
os two players, players getting congratulated after touchdowns, and of

(47:37):
course the iconic touchdown reaction shot where you see everyone
on the sideline explode into celebration after a big touchdown.
And I think is the person most responsible, Neil? Would
you agree with this for creating what that was? And
it was so much he was editing. He had played football,

(47:58):
so he was the perfect person to go out there
and know, here the shots you really need to to
properly tell the story and capture every part of what's
happening on the football field. And said to me once,
and I'm sure we've all learned lessons from him, because
we've you you taught us what we know. And he said,
and I don't know what this even meant at the time.

(48:19):
The film isn't just the action shots. It's the cutaways
that make the film. That's what enable you to tell
the story you're trying to tell. And again, I didn't
even know what that meant. And and I hope I've
learned a little bit, But I mean it's that kind
of wisdom. I think that speaks to needing to know
where to find those shots. But it's also the the
artistry in it, like and she has so many like
and you talked a lot about knowing the action, but

(48:41):
they're the shots that have nothing to do with the
actual action and all my favorite and shot is the
shot through the referee, is through the side judges, like
legs of the snap where it's just locked off and
all you see is the snap. The lines collide together
and the ball goes out of the frame. And every time,
every time that shot gets shot, it gets stuck in
inside the NFL week and it gets used and every

(49:02):
cameraman doesn't shoot it, but it always works and and
always gets it going like both in every possible direction.
And it's a beautiful shot. Every time you see it,
you feel magic. And there's always and and the beauty
and the subtle beauty of it is this foreground element.
It's always it'll be, you know. The classic version of it,
like Neil said, is this low angle shot, the cameras
usually almost on the ground, and in the foreground is

(49:26):
the side judge standing basically right above the camera and
the cameras basically between his legs. So he's just part
of it's just part of the scenery of of an
NFL field at that moment. And there's something else I
think we we we touched on. But Neil, you can
explain this as well as anybody. And I think for me,
it's triggered by lines like O. J. Simpson, how are

(49:46):
you or put yourself in this unenviable position? And I'm
talking about some of the classics A cut above the
Thomas plan. Tell me about what Andrews doing the magic
he was making when he got back here, actually cutting
and writing the stories. A cut above is the self.
You were a growing up in Pittsburgh in the eighties.

(50:07):
You watched that highlight film like I did, over and
over again. But do you remember the best line in
A cut above? The line that every all the NFL
films producers have been copying ever since, every time there's
a dynasty. There are twenty seven teams in the National
Football League, and then there are the Pittsburgh Steelers, and
now that's being used about the Patriots, and then no,
and then there are the Pittsburgh Steelers. I I don't

(50:29):
do a good facenda, but that was facenda reading that
line written by Bob Angelo and the open of the
ninety nine Steelers highlight films and highlights were always so
like on the edge and like he took risks, and
he took chances that nobody else would. He cut a hole.
He had a film that was narrated. He had did

(50:50):
the Saints highlight film and it was narrated by Gumbo
the Dog, the Saints like mascot. It looked like the
best Saint team ever. But let's ask a long time
I'm observer for his opinion. Well, I've been watching these
things since they were babies, and you know, funny things
seem to happen with these here, same games. But they

(51:13):
tell me these young fellows gonna make a difference around here,
like that Munsey. Oh well, anyway, munthe and that Tony Gilbert,
I say, pick up the ball, fellas. Folowy, oh lordy,
They're glad. It's gonna be another aggravating afternoon. My first
day in the building, I couldn't believe I can walk

(51:35):
into the vault and watch any highlight film I want,
and I'm getting paid to do this. So I grabbed
every Seattle Seahawks highlight film and and did like the
first four years, and so they're the first Seahawks highlight nineteen.
There's a two and a half minute segment on the
art of being a wide receiver is shown by frisbee
dogs frisbee dogs at Seahawks games, including in the best
line is answers and please you know did you do

(51:56):
this to be a great receiver? Make leaping catches in
the air and when you wore a touchdown, always have
a dignified end zone celebration. There's this dog just taking
a whiz like right on the goalpost, and it's just
there's always that subtle humor. He did another film where
he had Joe Thomas, the GM impresario, the San Francisco
forty Niners, and the whole film was built around Joe
Thomas trading for O. J. Simpson with the time and

(52:17):
had multiple knee surgeries and was washed up and Joe
Thomas just leans back in the chair and there's a
squeak of the chair and he's on the phone, O J. Simpson,
how are you? And you still get goose bump spatch.
He didn't want on the Houston Oilers. Uh. In the
mid nineties seventies, the oil crisis was going on. There

(52:38):
was stagflation. There's oil lines just just miles around gas stations.
And Andel's highlight film was the Oiler Crisis when the
oilers had a bad year. I mean, they were spectacular
and they make you smile and grin and you just
feel warm inside. We do some preparation for this podcast.
We didn't exactly prepare for this segment, which is only
relevant because we're not reading off notes here. These are

(52:59):
like the way you Ferris Bueller's Day Off for other
movie lines with your friends. Uh, these are highlight films
that obviously have made an impact. So thank you and
for your work. Uh what's it like here and all
that hearing your work quoted back to yourself? A lot
of it came out of desperation because I was the
new guy on the block. So I got the worst teams,

(53:19):
and it's really hard to make an interesting film about
a two and twelve team. And I had to come
up with angles that would hold an audience. And so
I tried some off the wall things, and some of
them work and some of them bombed completely. But as
Steve Stable used to say, nothing I respect more than
a colossal failure because at least you're trying, and you

(53:39):
know that that kind of green light as a writer,
young writer, editor, and then finally a producer director that
that says, go ahead, give it a shot. Why not.
There's a line in the Randall film Iron Sharpen's Iron
and they're talking about John practicing against Randall McDaniel. What
is it like being a creative and sort of a
laboratory of other creatives? How does that challenge you? And
and and how does that inspire you. Well. People keep

(54:02):
saying to me, you're gonna miss NFL Films, and I said,
but NFL Films isn't going to miss me. This company
is in the hands of really talented people. When I
go back and look at some of the direk that
I made in the in the mid seventies, and I
look at the quality of the productions today, I'm embarrassed
by some of the direct that I used to make.
But back then it was avant garde. It was you know,

(54:25):
this guy's as Neil said, I was trying to be edgy,
because why not. I'm doing a film about a two
and twelve team. Let's make it semi interesting. If it
actually does appear on television in San Diego or Houston,
I'd like somebody to watch it and remember something. But
these days, the work being done here is extraordinary. What's
changed the most in the NFL and in the covering

(54:50):
of the NFL all the guys are bigger, faster, stronger,
and more prepared. When I started, guys still had second jobs,
my first, and quite a few NFL players you know,
couldn't take the seven months of non football season off
for six months couldn't take it off simply because they

(55:10):
didn't make enough money playing football. That's all changed, so
obviously the salaries. What's changed about the way we do things,
I think is the attention to detail on the editorial side,
and more and more sound. People love wirings. That's primary audio.
When people hear the game being played, it's sanitized on television.

(55:32):
Everybody is big and fast and strong, and their speed
cancels the speed of the other guys. But when you're
standing there watching it, or when you can hear it,
you realize these are grown ass men going at it.
And that's the part when I take someone down on
the field for the first time that they realized, Hey,
I never realized these guys were this big be and

(55:54):
more importantly, that they could move this mass around so quickly.
It's it's uh, but the way we bring sound into
our productions now. Back in the day, a wiring was
a big deal. If you had a wiring for your
highlight film, wow, you were sitting at it. These days,
if you don't have three, you know what happened to me?

(56:15):
What happened to my team? That and the ease with
which we can edit now, I edited, edited, my first
highlight using my lard tape and a viewer, and then
had to stand in line to get my rough cut
on a flatbed and run it back and forth. These
days everything is accessible. Prior seasons are accessible, specials audio.

(56:37):
If I need a radio call from chances are I
can go back and find it. Neil, what percentage is
Randolph film? And we talked about it earlier. You're and
when you first met John and covered him over the years.
What percentage of this film do you think? Uh, Bob
had had a hand in capturing the amazing thing. When
we were going through and editing every every shot I
went through, I would look at it and say, okay,

(56:58):
if it's not a top shot, if it's a sound shot,
and shot it it's a ground If it's a ground shot,
actually a lot of them man shot, because there are
a lot of ground sound games like and every one
of John Randall's wires and shots. So I would say
this film probably the shots in the film Bob shot,
he filmed, he was, he was not, he's He's not
just the storyteller on the film. He's not just the producer, writer, editor,

(57:24):
He's not just the camera. He's also a witness to
all these things, like and Andre is an eyewitness to
John Randall's career. The just so everybody's clear. A top
shot is the shot um the traditional shot you see
on TV where the guys are, you're you're seeing the
action from above. A ground shot is the shot from
field level. Sound shot is a is with a sound

(57:46):
camera where you've got a boom mic or or a
player miked up so and specialized in sound and wires,
especially later in his career and sound cameras. Again, um,
different way of shooting that. But as you know, as
a former player, I try to understand the term momentum.

(58:06):
You can feel it on a football field. You know
what team has it and not to be on their
sideline when that team has momentum, better have a damn
good reason. Is there any story that you didn't get
to tell over these forty three years, Any individual that
you would have liked to do a football life on
something that's left out there? Jack Lambert, Pittsburgh Steelers, that's

(58:29):
that's that's one of our White Wales. Jack. Jack used
to be on my speed dial. We became pretty good friends. Uh.
I heard Jack say things that if we had him
wired he would have been in that category with with Randall. Now,
Jack didn't play crazy like John did, but Jack had

(58:49):
his way of motivating that football team, especially the offense,
when they performed poorly. Jack could light a fire under
their a's pretty quickly. And we're talking about the guy who,
at the end of some football seasons weighed less than
mel Blont a cornerback. But Jack could light a fire
even under Joe Green, even under Jack hamm Jack Lambert,

(59:10):
that's the one that and and and how when you
used to go to when we when you would do
a shoot with Jack Lambert, what was the requirement that
you had to show up with michelob a case of Michaelo,
show up with a case of Mick Jack's happy and
Jack would take us out to his hunting lodge and

(59:32):
we'd sit there and drink Michelo. So you mentioned Jack Lambert,
Who's your favorite coach of all time? Wow? Um. I
tend to gravitate towards the coaches who have given us
the best access. For that reason, my list is going
to have some names on it that some people won't know.
Danny Green, Minnesota Vikings. Danny understood what we did and

(59:57):
understood its value to a small market team like the Vikings.
He wanted us around all the time. Um. I admired
Chuck Nol actually had some moments with Chuck where um,
you know, I felt like part of the Steeler family. Uh.
Hard not to like Brian Billick because he was the

(01:00:18):
coach of the Ravens. When I did the first Hard
Knocks show, the very first one back in two thousand one,
and Brian opened the doors. Um, Steve Sable was very
concerned about the profanity and show number one, so he
deliberately cut it back and show number two. I had
to screen the show for ownership. Ozzie knewso Brian Billick

(01:00:42):
the PR department every Wednesday before the show aired Wednesday night.
After that second show, Brian Billick turned to me and said,
great show, Bob, but we need a few more gratuitous
f's in there. I called Steven said, and Steve said, Okay,
That's all I needed to hear. And from that moment on,
Hard Knocks became what it was, reality television. We talked

(01:01:05):
for like twenty minutes about Ange's resume and then then
at the end it was like, oh yeah. And then
the first Hard Knocks I was the director of the
first Hard Knocks, the first two. Yeah, probably the most
influential show we've ever made. Well played Ange alright, folks,
terrific afternoon, morning, evening. Whenever you're listening to this with

(01:01:29):
Neil Zender, Bob Angelo, and John Randall, Um Paul, any
final thoughts, Let's cue the song Keith, hold On, hold On,
Neil and anything else. Just a real honor to get
to work with Ange many many times, but this time
was a lot of fun. Yeah, and thank you for

(01:01:51):
everything you've done. It's been an incredible privilege to work
with you and get to know you. Thank you very much.
Guys cue it. We want to thank Pro Football Hall
of Famer John Randall for joining us today on the
podcast talking about his film. Thanks Rich Owens, our producer,

(01:02:16):
Steve Moseley, our engineer. Thanks Neil Zender and Bob Angelo.
Follow us on Twitter, Like us on Facebook, check us
out on YouTube. From the home of America's Football Movies
and Mount Laurel, New Jersey, this has been the NFL
Films Podcast. I'm Paul, I'm Keith. Take care everyone,