The NFL Films Podcast: Wes Welker

Keith and Paul talk with the directors of Wes Welker: A Football Life, Nick Mascolo and Chip Swain. Topics include the inception of the film (7:46), Tom Brady as the target of one of Welker’s best pranks (22:58), and Peyton Manning and Brady’s insights on Wes as a player and teammate (37:25). The guru, Greg Cosell, joins the show to talk all things Wes Welker and dive deep on the evolution of the slot receiver (42:55). Finally, we share a classic byte from the vault: Steve Sabol interviewing Jerry Rice on top of a mountain (1:00:13).  

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody. This is Keith Cosro and before we begin
the Wes Welker episode of the NFL Films podcast, a
quick note. First of all, I am joined right now
by very special guest, the producer of our podcast who's
been with us throughout our first season, Rich Owens and Rich.

(00:22):
Today is a very interesting episode. Why because this was
our inaugural episode, the first one we ever recorded, the
pilot as it were. Indeed, the pilot episode of a
show usually isn't very good. It's when you're really trying
to figure some things out. It's the first time, it's

(00:44):
the maiden voyage. And yet like in TV, it's written
and it's thought out and it's mapped out, and it's
the show they made to sell the series and the concept,
and to some degree, we did that here. And we
had some thoughts and some ideas about what this podcast
would be, but we really had no idea what we
were doing. We went in with a bit of a plan,

(01:06):
Paul and me and you on the other side of
the glass, and we had our guests who are the
producers of the West Welker Football Life episode, and eventually
we had Greg Cosell and we had some clips from
the Welker episode, some some clips that didn't make the

(01:27):
episode that are really really terrific and that you're gonna
want to hear. And we had a great flashback to
an old Steve Sable interview with Jerry Rice, classic bite,
and that was all cool, and that was what we
went in with. And the rest of it, as you
will hear today, is us fumbling around trying to figure

(01:49):
out what the heck we're trying to do here. So
I think for that reason alone, it's an interesting listen
to go back and hear, all, right, here are these
guys trying this for the very first time. Not that
we're that good at it now, but we really weren't
very good at it then. We were just trying to
put it all together. And I think this, uh, you know,

(02:11):
inaugural episode is an interesting look at the vision we
had right from the beginning. How so, um, I think that,
you know, our original vision was to give everyone a
further peak into the films we make, and so we
decided to give everybody a look at some of these
behind the scenes clips from the film, and I think

(02:34):
it's a really interesting look at, uh, sort of the
minds of all the great producers we have in this building,
and I think that's really interesting for people to see
how we put these things together. All right, then, so
this is uh the West Welcome and one of the
funny things is here. It didn't even occur to us
at the time that we should try to get Wes

(02:54):
Welker to come on the show. We didn't even think
of that at that point. It was only after we
played this for some people and they said, don't you
try to get the actual guy to come on. You
know you might be able to do that, And I said,
you know what, that's a good idea. So in the
ensuing episodes we were able to do that for almost
all the subjects of a football life or timeline who
we featured. But in this particular episode, we went heavy

(03:16):
on the clips, heavy on the conversation with the producers
and directors of this film, and um, we had a
good time, but we had no idea what we were doing.
So give it a listen Wes Welker Football Life, the
NFL Films Podcast the pilot episode. But before you do
a quick programming note, you can watch Wes Welker Football

(03:39):
Life on demand if you have NFL Network and on
game Pass dot NFL dot com anytime you want? Is
that correct? Rich? That is correct? All right? Enjoy everybody,
let's do it. That song doesn't put a smile on

(04:03):
your face? What does? And if you're listening to it,
you have stumbled upon the first ever NFL Films podcast.
My name is Keith Cosro and I am with Paul Camerata. Hello,
sitting on Keith left here in our studio. I'll paint

(04:24):
a picture for you, since this is our first foray
into an audio only format. No cameras here at the
premiere recording of the podcast. And who's across from you?
Paul senior producer Nick Mascolo's directly across from me at
twelve o'clock. And at but one one o'clock is Chip Sway,
another senior producer. And they're joining us here today, uh,

(04:46):
both to celebrate this momentous occasion of the first podcast,
but specifically because they are the producers of a show
called Wes Welker of Football Life, which will be our
main topic of conversation. How we got here? So this is,
like we said, the very first NFL Films podcast. Um,

(05:07):
and we think this is something that our late great
boss Steve Sable would have really loved and that's why
we started the show with Steve's March Sam Spence NFL
Films Classic. Steve used to wander the halls. He didn't
wander them. He patrolled the halls and had conversations with

(05:29):
all of his dozens of producers any hour of any
day of the week, talking football movies, our football movies,
anything else that crossed his mind. And after many conversations,
he said, why why isn't this a show? Why can't
we have a show called the Producers Lounge? And we

(05:49):
even one year we even shot a pilot of the
Producer's Lounge, which looked more like a local access show
than an actual television and show. So that never got
off the ground. But as usual, Steve was well ahead
of his time and eventually podcasts arrived. So what are

(06:10):
we looking to do with the podcast, Paul Well? Today? Specifically,
we're gonna talk about Wes Welker, uh Nick and Chip
spent the better part of the last six months or
so diving into his story, traveling the country doing interviews
with West with all the important people in his life,
both on the football field and away from the football field,

(06:32):
and then crafting that footage, researching I shouldn't leave that out,
researching the footage of his career that exists here in
our library, uh, and taking all that and telling his
story in a forty four minute package for the series
of Football Life, the documentary biography series which ers in
the NFL Network. So Chip and Nick are gonna kind

(06:53):
of tell us about how that all started, how it unfolded, UM,
how it evolved, which it always does. UM Like any
game plan, I guess you start out with with what
you think you're gonna do when you make changes, So
it's kind of a process. We hope they're gonna shed
some light on We are in our seventh season of
A Football Life, our documentary series are by by a

(07:16):
biographical documentary series on NFL Network, and we will have
our one episode this season. Some episodes are no brainers.
We started this season with Dan Marino, Emmett Smith, John Madden,
a listeners by any stretch hall of famers. Some episodes
of A Football Life are unexpected, and I think we

(07:37):
would all agree that Wes Welker falls into that category. Nick,
how did this episode of A Football Life come to be? So?
I had always had West Welker in the back of
my mind. Um, we do a feature called Unlikely Champions
for one of our other series, NFL Films Presents, and
the season he was with the Broncos and went to

(07:58):
the Super Bowl, I thought, since he had lost two
Super Bowls with the Patriots, he might be an interesting
character to put into that grouping of unlikely guys because
he's winning with the new team and he moved on,
and so he's in the back of my mind. Then
we're working last year on the Rams as they moved
from St. Louis to Los Angeles. We had them on

(08:18):
another one of our shows, Hard Knocks. You know, we
have multiple cameras there, and one of the cameras and
shooting cutaways of the players um sitting around, and all
of a sudden, I see Wes Welker and I kind
of felt bad from I'm like, oh, it's with the Rams,
like Rams, you know, they were just I just felt
bad for the guy. And then I'm like, wait, that's right.
Everyone a super Bowl And I'm like and then I
started having like the idea like no, you know what,
maybe there's a bigger story to him that I don't

(08:40):
know outside of just these couple of things. I know,
I mean, and he was a great player. I mean
we all probably had him on fantasy teams at some point, um,
you know, when he was with the Patriots, are wanted
him certainly, So I kind of just, you know, tucked
it aside because you can't just go off on a
tangent at that moment and say, hey, I'm gonna look
at this guy. So you watch a lot of footage
researching a guy when you do a film like this,
and then there's the moment where you're actually this shoot

(09:00):
gets set up and you get to go actually do
an interview or shoot with them. So I don't know
which of you met him first, so you can kind
of jump in here. But when you've seen Walker's footage
and you walked into the room of them face to
face the first time, and you guys have interviewed your
share of pro football players, pro athletes of all all
different sports, what was your sort of eyeball test reaction to, Oh,
that's West Welker. What do you remember about that? It's crazy?

(09:23):
I mean I thought that knowing what his height was,
it matches my height, and the fact that he plays
over the middle and the toughest landscape in the NFL
getting hit by you know these guys who we all
you know, you know, we we interview all shapes and
forms of football players, but they're generally all bigger than us.
Um and uh to see that he was my size,

(09:43):
and you know, I think we took a chip and
I took a picture with him. One was all done
and he's right there with us. It's like you could,
you know, put a two by four across of us
and it would be would be pretty pretty level. We
interview players of all shapes and sizes, but also of
all different personalities. Some are willing objects for something like this,
some are more reluctant. What kind of a subject did

(10:05):
you find West to be? He was? We had a
phone conversation with him the first time, uh, to kind
of throw out all the ideas we had, right and
he was on board with everything. You know, he uh
he thought it all sounded good. He would he wasn't,
you know, saying oh well, I don't know. He was, yep,
we can do that, we can do that, we can
do that. Um, And you know that was kind of them.

(10:27):
We had a blueprint of what we're gonna do. He
was gonna go home to Oklahoma City, uh to have
a football camp, which we shot, which didn't make it
into the show because you know, just certain things round
out of time. Um, but it worked because he came
home to where his family was, uh and where he
went to high school. Because the high school coach. Rod
Warner was going to be a big part of this

(10:47):
because he was the individual who kind of went to
bat for West when colleges uh weren't uh you know,
give him any offers. He sent out a fact to
everybody to say, hey, the Oklahoma state play or the
year isn't isn't signed with anybody, yet he's still available.
And um that was right before uh signing day. Uh

(11:08):
and he got lucky. Signing Dame came and went and
he got lucky a couple of days later. Let's hear
that bit from the show. In February of two thousand,
Rod Warner reached out to a hundred and five colleges
on behalf of his star player Wes Welker. Took such
good care of men. He received one response. I got
a call from a former guy that I coached with,

(11:29):
Tommy McVeigh. He was the director of football at Texas Tech.
And he said, Hey, Rod, what who's this kid? Rod
sent the film on this little kid from Oklahoma City.
He was doing everything compared as hell everything and throughout
that film, You're coming. If only he was bigger. Oh wow,
that's a great play. He is just a little faster.

(11:50):
Oh well, how did he get out of that? How
did he do that? How did he manage that? I
really don't think that t ever. I saw I need shortcomings.
He he just sort of a assumed he didn't have any.
And I was begging him. I said, Mike, go ahead signing.
We have nothing to lose, go ahead signing. We get

(12:15):
there and uh, Coach Leech is on the phone with
Tommy McVeigh and and Coach Lee just saying yeah, yeah, okay,
and he hangs up. He's like, all right, we're gonna
offer you. Um I'm like, you have this conversation like
right here in front of me, like it was just
like an awkward type of thing. But so we're gonna

(12:36):
offer you, but uh, you know, we're we're gonna need
to know um you know here in the next few
days or something. It's like I'll take it. I'm good,
I'm good. I don't know if you've heard, but I
don't have any other offers. One thing, and we heard
from some very interesting voices there. First of all Josh Charles,
the narrator of football life. You hear his dulcet tones.

(12:58):
And we hear from Mike Lee each the great coach
of now Washington State, who was Texas Tech coach at
the time, inventor of the air raid offense that West
went on to star in. But the one thing I
wanted to ask is and you hear it a little
bit at the end. Here, Wes is a surprisingly good storyteller,

(13:19):
and almost an enthusiastic one. Like what comes across in
the film is that he wants to tell his story.
Did you you get that impression when when when you
worked with him and when you edited the film. Yeah,
I mean a d percent. He he loved talking about,
especially the early parts of his sort of development in

(13:39):
high school and college and those stories. He's got a
fondness for that time in his career, in his life.
And um, you know he was he was a willing
participant and we talked about earlier, but he was very
candid about everything about how he left the Patriots, about
everything that he went through out, the struggles with concussions,
all of it. He was very candid, which you sometimes

(14:00):
these guys keep things close to the vest I mean,
you guys know and um you know that's it was
It made for it makes for a good show. How
does that change your job as a filmmaker? Chip when
the guy is when you when you have that epiphany
moment in your head, we're like, Oh, he's gonna he's
gonna be open, he's gonna talk as opposed to a
guy who's guarded. Because you probably had both experiences. How
does it change the process for you when you realize

(14:21):
he's gonna be into it and he's gonna open up
with us here. Well, I mean I think mostly it
just allows you to cover anything you want really and
he's gonna he's gonna tell you anything. And the flip
side is if he's gonna be candid about something, then
you maybe have to try and worry about the other
side of the coin, Like if he's gonna be candid

(14:42):
about how his time ended with the Patriots, we need
to make sure that both sides have represented, so we
have to be careful about that. There's some good stuff
in the show, and there's some good stuff that didn't
make the show. I want to start with one that
didn't make the show. And this is the first time
he met Tom Brady. We're when I went up there
to New England and signed. Um, he was working out

(15:04):
in the way room. He's on the elliptical, so uh,
they took me in there to meet him, and uh.
I think our first conversation was, you know, he's happy
to have me there, all that stuff and everything, and uh,
I said, yeah, we're just you know, have one thing
left on this uh on this contract. You know, He's like, oh, yeah,
what's what's that? I was like, uh, Gazelle's friends. You know,

(15:26):
he kind of sat there there. Yeah. I'm like, it's
probably like the Cornya saying, he's probably heard that like
twenty thousand times from all of his buddies and stuff.
And of course, you know, that's my first conversation with him. Now,
the story West told us about the first time you
met he he mentioned something about an extra contract negotiation
that he was trying to get from you remember that story.

(15:47):
What was he trying to get? Help me out? She
was trying to get you to introduce him to some
of your your wife's friends. Yeah, I think it worked
out pretty well for him. Um, he actually met his
wife at the Kentucky Derby. Um, and so I kind
of helped with together that trip. So maybe I'm somewhat
responsible for them hooking up. Yeah, flew out on his plane.

(16:11):
So that's uh, that's probably where the rule kind of
comes in. Yes, I guess we should thank Tom. You did. Now, Chip,
you did the Brady interview in this show and the
Peyton Manning interview in this show. Correct, that's correct? Yes?
Was that a coin flip? How does that work? When
when you when you have a show where you're gonna
review Brady and man And I don't know how many
people in NFL films have the distinction of saying they

(16:34):
interviewed both. Is that right? Zero? As far as I know? Wow,
the first so went out and did Peyton for this
show and for a couple of other shows, which was
he was great. I got like forty five minutes with him,
which was amazing. And then uh, we pursued and pursued
and pursued Tom Brady. And then finally about two or

(16:55):
three weeks before we needed to be done with the show,
he agreed to do the interview, and we got about
ten minutes with him, and we made account. I think
we used nine minutes and thirty seven seconds. I think
anything that didn't make the show will appear on. But
which raised, which raises a good point. You know, you

(17:16):
when we make a football Life or any network and
an NFL network hour, it's forty three minutes and forty
seconds and number we all have drilled into into our
skulls what you know, and it's hard. There's a lot
of good stuff and we're gonna play a lot of it.
And I keep raising that this made the show, this
didn't make the show, and we'll stop saying that. But

(17:36):
but I think it's worth bringing up, you know stuff,
great stuff doesn't make it into these shows. Yeah, I mean,
I mean how many I think we all probably have done,
you know, main um subject interviews that have been in
the in the realm of two to four hours probably
when we interview these guys, So you have a lot
of it and that's just the main subject. Then you

(17:57):
then you have all these other people who have been
part of life, you know, parents, plays, high school coaches,
college coaches, teammates, um, it's a lot of people to
mix in and Keith you can talk to this. I think,
as one of the show runners of Football Life, what
is the point where a guy is sort of good
enough to be a football Life right? What what level
of accomplishment helps you guys decide, at least on paper,

(18:18):
we think there's a there's enough story here, because I
think that gets to the heart of once you pass
that threshold, there are so many details. Yeah, inevitably some
of them aren't going to make the show. So how
does it get to the point where you say, you
know what, there's enough that's happened here now that we
think we can tell an interesting hour about this guy. Well,
that's you know, kind of where we started, is that
Welker is not an obvious choice. I think one this

(18:39):
kind of goes back to one thing Steve Stable used
to say to us is I don't want to do
a piece on a guy until there's a complete story
arc beginning in middle and an end. And I think
when we talk about unlikely subjects and and producers come
and pitch a show idea for Football Life, one thing
that Chris Barlow and I like to say to a

(19:00):
producer is, what's happening in the fourth block. There's six
blocks of this show, you know, five commercial breaks. What's
going on in block four? Is there something interesting? Can
that block stand on its own? Or we are we
thin at that point. And you love a story where
a guy was in three or four different places and
there were different phases to his career, those always work well.

(19:22):
You love a you know, you love archetypal stories, which
this clearly is. This is the quintessential underdog story. All
through his career. No one ever thought this guy would
make it in the NFL. So we we thought, you know,
and Chris Barlow and I the other showrunner for Football Life,
talked to to Pat kellaher our executive producer, and Ross

(19:42):
kett Over, our senior executive in NFL Films, and we
we weigh all these things. There are certain guys that
are no brainers, and then there are ones like this,
And ultimately we'll say to someone like Nick who comes
with this idea, all right, give us give us a
full outline, give us the full six block outline so
that we know what's going on on in the fourth block,
and that'll change. But I think this one exceeded all

(20:04):
of our expectations because West turned out to be such
a willing participant, and there are great things about him
that you forget, like the foot fetish incident. The foot
fetish incident is one of the great underrated press conference
moments in NFL history. Welker's physical toughness was never in doubt.

(20:29):
His mental toughness was about to be tested. A torn
a c l in the final week of the season
cost Welker the two thousand nine playoffs. In two thousand
and ten, his mouth nearly cost him another postseason. It's
a playoff atmosphere, and you can't just stick your toe
in the water, you know. He got jumped right in.

(20:49):
And in the days leading up to New England's playoff
game against the Jets, a story broke about Rex Ryan's
alleged foot fetish. It was all the prankster needed. Well,
I think we've had some younger players really step up
this year, and and Le's it called Dad and told
him that he was going to do it. And so
I was like, no, he will not. Surely not. Everybody's

(21:11):
been their best foot forward and going on. I remember that,
but I don't think you know that I am not
going down that road. I'm not going down that road really,
just us going out there and being good little foot
soldiers and make I guess he's kind of got tired
of like him being the guy that talked trash the
whole time, you know, especially you know, you got your
foot up in the air, and so I was like, okay,
all right, fine, I'm gonna do it. You definitely have

(21:32):
to be on your toes. And and West always brought
a lot of life to things, and he had a
great personality, always keeping things light for everybody. He's another
guy's a great feet and and can really move around
and do some great things out there. You know, who
cares if I got him in trouble and no one
that no one really gives about that. Kudos forgetting that
out of Brady. And and the Tom Brady interview. I

(21:54):
don't know that we've ever heard of Brady curse in
one of our news before. There you go. Yeah, he was.
He enjoyed that, the smirk on his face. What did
he tell you when when he walked in, Oh well,
I mean he said, this is great. I get to
talk about one of my favorite people. So that was
Brady when he walked into the interview. Yeah, tongue in cheek.
He was excited or serious. No, he was dead serious.

(22:16):
He was really excited to do the interview to talk
about West. I remember in the interview when when uh,
I was like, you know, I told West and like, look,
I know Tom's a busy guy. You gotta have to
help us get him, you know. So I told you know,
we were in the middle of talking about something and
maybe the first meeting or whatever, and like, you know,
just don't forget, like you know, text him, do whatever,
help us out, because you know, you know, maybe he'll
definitely do it if if you kind of give him

(22:37):
a little push. And he looked into the camera and
he's like, Tom, you don't here, You're gonna you're gonna
do this. I should have given that clip. I didn't
think that. I didn't you know, maybe maybe I'll have
to pull it out of the abbit for you guys.
But he did. He did that, and I'm like, the West,
that's not gonna help. That's not helping us, man. And
we do have one more Brady story that that we

(22:58):
can that we can share. West always likes to keep things,
you know, having fun and pretty light and uh, now,
it's a good personality to have. He's always playing pranks
on people, always thinking about how to mess with someone.
That's one of his favorite things. And she just loves
to mess with people. He had this little toy, black rat.

(23:19):
It's about this long, and he tied a fishing line
onto its head and he tied the other side to
a set screw in your inside your cabinet, so when
you opened up the cabinet to get a glass, this
rat would swing out right into you. So I went
over his house and I was hanging out, and right
before I left, his wife said, Tommy, can you grab

(23:41):
something for me? Like there's something the cover. I can't
reach it. Uh, And I did this to me. So
I reached up and when I pulled the covered open,
there was a line attached to a rat, and the
rat was a big rubber rat, which when I opened
the cabinet, the rat came off and I jumped back.
Oh my god, I must have jumped back ten feet
and screamed. I mean, it's scared the hell out of me.

(24:02):
And uh, I think I try to get someone back
with it, but I have never done it as successfully
as Westcott me. So, but it was a good prank
he wanted, like in a full sprint, like straight through
the door. I mean usually people sit there and slam
the door and be done like he was. I've never
seen moves so fast. I think those scenes are so
important in these films because again, forty four minutes, it

(24:25):
can't just be football action, right, So not only does
humor trump all and I think they some the funny
moments end up being the most memorable, but just to
pace out the great football stuff and also to give
the dimension of these guys is great. But I really
wanted to talk about one of my favorite football scenes.
Is kind of why I was where I was going
there be cause well, you know that one didn't make

(24:46):
the film, but the first one did. I said, those
types of scenes, the funny scenes, I mean, maybe we
should talk about it. We should talk about why didn't
it make? The friends scene didn't make it? Didn't the rats?
In me? I mean, we always I always thought that
the prankster angle of him I thought was interesting because

(25:08):
you know, if you kind of observed Wes Welker outside
of the prank that he pulled at the podium with
Rex Ryan that we played, you know, he's he's kind
of got this stare. He kind of looks really serious
as a football player. So you know, it was cool
meeting him to realize he's like literally, if he was
a football player, I think he'd probably hang out with us,

(25:28):
like they tell myself he did. He did hang out
with us, Yeah, he did. I mean, he's like really normal.
Like you know, Chip and I worked in hockey before
we did this, similar positions working uh in the for
the NHL, and and and Chip have been working in
pairs for for for forever decades together. But he kind
of reminded me of like hockey guys, you know what
I mean, Like they're all so normal when they're unaware

(25:50):
of their celebrity in a way, and and um, and
they're just down to earth well, which raises what I
think is the other side of his personality, which is
the sandpaper quality which you would have to have to
be a five ft nine thriving NFL slot receiver. Listen
to this clip, which I love, of West talking to

(26:15):
himself before returning stuff. Let's go play food, Come we
play back, Come we play, Let's go. I think a
lot of times you you don't want to think too much,
you know, but you want to think the right things.

(26:37):
It's like putting your mind into something else. So just
having a conversation with yourself. Let's go, let's get north
and south. Let's go, let's go back, let's go, let's go.
Folks say, let's go. Huh what say three? Let we
say let's you know, score touchdown, Let's go. They can't
you know, they can't tackle you. We play here, we play,
let's go, we play three, Let's go. H It's just

(27:01):
something I did, you know, And just kind of get
myself going, almost kind of flip the switch and become
a little bit of psycho out there. I feel my
probably three got my play. I think a lot of
guys do it. And if you don't do it, I
think you're you're kind of missing out. Yeah. Good, it's

(27:30):
great to mike guys up. It's hard to convey the
speed of the game as seen when you're down in
the field, but that section for me, is as effective
as anything and showing if you're standing on the sideline again,
just what these guys are up against and how this
guy's talent just jumped off the field to be able
to achieve what he did. Yeah, and and the other
you know, you learn some other things in there too

(27:50):
that when you apply it and you watch the speed
of the action that he's in and you think of
the decisions that are made in the option route kind
of things he would run with with Brady and Manning.
It's amazing to think of, you know, how quick those
decisions are made and the ball is coming before you
know it, and guys on top of you before you

(28:12):
know it. It's like, I'm fascinated by the fact that,
like we were talking about earlier, he's our size and
he was doing all that in there at the highest level.
Programming note, programming note on that point the option route.
Later on in the show, we're going to have um
the resident football guru of NFL Films on Greg Coseell

(28:32):
to talk about Welker's unique role in the game and
the way he played, the chemistry had with Brady, the
way they were able to read defenses after the snap
to make decisions. So stay, what is an option route?
What is a slot receiver? Well, Greg will explain here's
another challenge in making a film about Wes Welker. His

(28:55):
career didn't have the happiest ending, and almost you know,
you know, we look for that triumphant, climactic moment where
we can cue the big music and give people goose bumps.
The biggest moment of Wes Welker's career was the worst
moment of his career. I feel so good, man, Huh,
I'd feel so good. I'm opening on. I know you are,

(29:20):
I know you are, I know you are. Block running.
Brady brings them out second nine on eleventh of the Patriots.
Brady calling signals, takes the snap as protection goes to
the left with it. It is called rock. That was
an incredibly tough catch to make, you know, he it was.
It was a steam ball, and those things happened. But

(29:43):
I know this, that's not why we lost the game.
And so the Giants celebrate and the Patriots, our devastating
West was running down the field, and uh, you know,
West went up to try to make it as he
always does, and we just you know, couldn't connect. So
you know know, I love that guy. He made so many
great catches and I certainly don't think about anyone that

(30:06):
he dropped. I mean, he caught so many important ones
play I've made a thousand times, practice and everything else,
and you know, it comes to the biggest moment of
my life and you know, don't come up with it,
and you know it's it's discouraging. I mean, I can't
say I never think about it. Of course I do.
You know, Um, you know, you think about your that

(30:28):
close and it was in my hands and you know,
and I didn't make the play. It was it was
a battle to get over for a long time. So
if you didn't recognize that, that was the sort of
dissection of the pivotal play. Some would say the game, uh,

(30:51):
the most pivotal play in Super Bowl forty six, the
second time the Patriots and Giants faced each other. Um,
and the Welker dropped there. I think it was it
was in the fourth quarter eight in the game, Um
that that I believe that the essentially the argument is
if he makes one of those what if plays, if
he makes that catch, the Patriots I think gain a
first down, James Otch. What I'm interested in, Nick is

(31:12):
so you you mentioned it, so you you you've developed
this rapport with a guy, and yet the back of
your head, because you're probably not doing it in minute
one of interview one, you know that at some point
you're gonna have to ask him about you know, west
you had nine awesome athletic achievements. We just talked about him,
So the tenth thing on the list is the worst
athletic uh moment of your life? How do you steal

(31:35):
yourself mentally for that, for asking that question? And how
did it unfold with west when you finally did have
to get to that drop in Super Bowl forty six.
It's difficult, but I think he knows it's coming because
we've kind of talked about it. He knows it's a
point in his career that that people look at and
I know, walking away from it, I you have to
have it. You have to have him talk about it,
because that's why I'm watching this show if I'm if

(31:57):
I'm an audience member for day Night, October six, at
nine pm UM on demand. That's what I always think
about that, you know, like I think about, you know,
what are what will people who come to watch this
want to get out of it outside of the stuff
that they know that's out there that they don't have

(32:19):
that that intimate discussion with west On. I hope to
try and get that out of him or any other
subject who has a situation like that. I always look
at it as a great opportunities when you get to
tell a story that doesn't have the pat ending. It's
a it's a challenge, but it gives you an opportunity

(32:40):
to tell a different kind of story. You know that
we have this classic underdog story. And there's just an
ascent through the whole first half of the film and
then all of a sudden sort of from you know,
even really before this it started, you know, kind of
peeked a little early, and then it starts coming down
and you know, this isn't this is the second super

(33:00):
Bowl he loses, he goes on to Denver and loses
another one. Yeah, and that was a moment. We had
that in there, and I remember we watched it Chip
uh when Chip put that segment together, and he had
this great music because uh, you know, in storybook fashion,
he goes to the Broncos and in the a f
C Championship game, who does he beat the team he
left New England Patriots. So it's this big moment and

(33:22):
then you know, the music feels good, but you know
it's not a it's not a he didn't have a
tremendously great game, So there weren't a lot of Welker
highlights in there. But it felt good. You're like, yes,
you know, West won, he won, and then I think
we we we had the music kind of turned a
little sour quick, and I was kind of like, oh,
you know, like I was kind of riding this emotional

(33:42):
high for him, and like and you you had this
kind of optimistic It was good to see West as
you know. Yeah, but if you watch it, you know
it continues because it carried his optimism into it because
as if everyone remembers that game, it was practically over
you know on snap one the super Bowl against the Seahawks,
the Broncos in the Seahawks Super Bowl at UM. But

(34:06):
but West, you know, he but he you know, like
classic West, I will I will overcome West. He's like,
at halftime, I thought I really thought we were gonna
win that game, you know, and he did, Like because
that's you know, his whole life. He's been he's been
beating the odds, like everyone in this film says, and
that that's just how he approached things. You know, when
he was being told he couldn't go to UM, he

(34:26):
wasn gonna make the NFL when he got one undrafted,
they were telling him, hey man, why don't you try
NFL Europe because it was stole in existence, and and
he was like, I'm like, I'm not going to NFL Europe.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I'm gonna make it. He did.
He got a you know not on the Chargers and
got to camp and made the team. And yet even
his moment of triumph with the Chargers had a turn
that he wasn't expecting. Let's play that, uh play West's

(34:49):
reaction to his first couple of weeks as a San
Diego Charger in the left turn that it took. In
two thousand four, well Here signed with the San Diego
Chargers as an undrafted free agent. Being a training camp
long shot kept him away from the real football action,

(35:10):
so Welker was forced to get creative. I wasn't hardly
getting any reps, and I was like, I don't I
don't mind looking like like I'll be that guy. That's fine.
So I go in here the call and then I
go back there twenty yards and I'd run the route
looking like an idiot. But I was like, whatever you
can help me and making this football team, you know,

(35:33):
I'm gonna do it. Welker's plan paid off. His solo
routes turned into training camp reps. Please look at for
a six step which led to preseason touchdowns touchdown West
Heer both receiving and returning. Here's West Welker on the
proper turn. I poured down. Welker's in the foot race

(35:54):
for the end zone. The Chargers scholar. I make the
team and like fired up, and I'm like, dude, I
made the NFL team and you know I'm returning kicks
at Houston. I'm thinking, like, yeah, I'm good. I come
in there on Wednesday and they cut me. I was like,

(36:15):
but I just I made the team, you know, like,
I mean, how can you just cut me when I
made the team? And so, I mean I was I
was pretty piste off at that point. I got no
idea like they could cut you from week to week. Um.
That's when Miami called and said they're gonna pay me
like a thousand extra bucks a month to be on
their practice squad. And I was like sold of ups

(36:39):
and downs in that life. Even when he thought he
made the breakthrough, he was he was going out on
his ear again. Yeah, when he told we were a
little bit in shock because we kind of went into
it thinking, you know, let's get West moving around. The
plan was we were gonna do a lot of walking
talks with him with the high school coach and and
just to kind of inject energy by virtue of having
some moving scenes with him and stuff, because I was

(37:00):
kind of concerned he might not be a great interview.
And then you know, this was you know, the early stuff.
I want to talk a little bit more about these
two all time iconic quarterbacks who he shared the field
with um and because there are great moments in the
film with with each one of them. There's a really
neat moment where Welker describes the way he and Brady
would study off the field. Let's listen to that. He

(37:25):
picked up the system really quick. There was an instant
connection with Tom and you could tell that right away.
What's up, baby, Let's come back to that smash hold
a good route, right There was instant chemistry. You know,
he had physical skills, but he was so intelligent on
the field. He had great recall. I mean, you could
talk about things in practice had come up to the game.

(37:47):
He do him exactly the exactly the way you wanted
them to. The quarterback and receiver spoke the same language
and work to get better on and off the field.
I think some of the really cool things we did
was watching uh, you know Montana and Rice there one
on ones in San Francisco. He would watch Montana and

(38:10):
study is throwing motion and everything. I'm watching Rice on
you know how you're in this round, how he ran
that route and we'd watch it together. Okay, we could
use this against this coverage in this game or whatever.
And you know, just just constantly having those conversations over
and over and over again. I guess what makes a
great receivers When the quarterback communicates something, they take in

(38:33):
the information they're able to apply it. West could do
that as well as anybody. There's a piece of footage,
um that you'd see over that sequence in the film,
and it's Jerry Rice running a sort of an out
route and then West and Brady running almost the exact
same route. How did you find that? I mean, because
it's a great idea on paper and the bites are great,
but really it comes to life when you see how

(38:54):
you guys edited those that footage from from sometime thirty
years ago with with five years go. Where did that
who dug that up? Well, the cool thing about when
you get a scene like that he you know, we're
interviewing and Nick's interviewing him, and he just kind of
goes into this Montana Rice thing. We didn't know about
that ahead of time. Yeah, that was you know sometimes
you know, you have an idea about what these guys

(39:15):
are gonna say, and then all of a sudden they
give you a little nugget like that, and you're like, oh,
this is really cool, and this is something that I
think we try and find. So, you know, being NFL Films,
we have access to lots of archival type footage. So
then you start going through the Jerry Rice football life
and seeing what footage was in there, and sure enough
there's a shot of Jerry Rice running out and then um,

(39:35):
you know, you put the scene together and you're like, well,
let's see if we can find something that matches that,
that that works. And sure enough, there was something that
that worked. Like there, uh, you know, that was similar
between Brady and and Welker and you know, you know
those That's the best part about this job is is
that we have that stuff that there's so much of it,
and and speaking of the archives and and and coming

(39:57):
back in unexpected ways. And like you said, this is
what's so great about being here UM at NFL Films
because everything we ever shot, you know, is in our vault.
And so I think it was the summer of Chris
Barlow and I spent the summer with Peyton Manning for
a secret project. We didn't know what it was going

(40:18):
to becommon. It wound up becoming UM an episode of
our other documentary series, the Timeline Peyton Manning Summer School,
and it was a documentary about that summer Peyton's life,
which also happened to be the offseason when Wes Welker
arrived in Denver. And one of the things we shot
with Peyton was when he went to Duke University to

(40:39):
spend a week with his old coach, David Cutcliffe, and
he brought all the Broncos receivers and in that week
is the first time Peyton took the field with West
as teammates. And we sat there that week and watched
those two guys connect, and it was like watch in

(41:01):
two physicists, you know, with pH d s speak a
completely foreign language. What I like about it in the
No Huddle is it. It's just just kind of talk
through routes. You know, we're able to come to some
conclusions on everything, on how we wanted it done, if
it's covered to you skip step, if the safety is
coming down, and you want somebody who can communicate on

(41:21):
the same level with you. So it's almost like a
scissors West where you're gonna hit it because you're so open,
and I want to get it to you stick and
just go right over that inside. I'm taking it there.
That's what I want. That's what I'm talking about right there.
So Welker played with Brady and Manning and played for
saban In Belichick. I mean, correct around some pretty pretty market,

(41:45):
some some incredible football minds thought Wes Welker is pretty
and Mike leach Well was Marty the coach of the
Chargers when he made the Chargers, he was and he
refers to it as one of the worst mistakes he
ever made releasing him. Marty does, yeah, I mean it
was it was a cutting him in hopes of putting
him back on the practice squad, and West was like
screw that. He was passed, we should say, for thousand

(42:07):
dollars more months. Mary lost him there's there's a clean
man thousand dollars a month claim. All right, So, um, guys,
congratulations on the film. It's great. Everyone who's seen well,
we all think so. Anyway, Hopefully, hopefully fans do. If

(42:28):
you're listening to this before you've seen the episode or after,
hopefully it has added an enhanced your experience with Wes
Welker of Football Life, an underrated classic in NFL films history,

(43:02):
Cossacks charge and appropriate for the great Greg Coastin charging In, didn't.
I didn't know the title, I believe it or not.
Of that song I've I've probably heard it a thousand times,
if not more, Charges in for the hardcore football section
of the initial NFL films. Feel like I should have

(43:23):
a sword and a shield with me. Now Paul has
a sword in a shield. Yeah, in an accident, yeah,
I think. Yeah, Greg, you watched the West Welker thoughts. Oh,
really really enjoyed it. Really enjoyed for me. And I'm
sure it's because I've worked here now for thirty eight seasons,

(43:46):
so I'm familiar with his pro career. But I really
enjoyed the material. On his college career and particularly coming
out of high school when apparently no one wanted him,
and then Mike Leach, who is a little different cat
to begin with, decided there was a place for him
in his air Raid offense and obviously that kind of
worked out. Which is an interesting place to start because

(44:07):
Wes Welker played for the air Raid offense. He arrives
in New England in two thousand seven when the Patriots
become a historically great offense, and then goes to Denver
the year that Peyton delivers a historical So I guess

(44:28):
the first question is this coincidence that has nothing to
do with Brady and Manning and it's all Wes Welker. Well,
they're they're fine, They're fine, they're fine. But is Wes
Welker a common thread that vaulted those offenses to a
different level? When you talk about Welker, I think when

(44:49):
he goes to New England, it's hard for me anyway,
as someone who studies tape and thinks about this stuff,
to separate West Welker from the coach and the quarterback.
Because Bill Belichick didn't just bring in west Welker because
he thought he was a good player. He brought in
west Welker because he had a defined role for that
kind of player, and I think that's so critical in

(45:12):
today's NFL for players who don't fit the game from
a measurable standpoint, you have to have a defined role
and understand how they can be used. I thought that
was an interesting comment Leach made about I watched in
the high school tape. Well. The reason he said that
Welker what didn't catch on anywhere in the eyes of
a recruiter was real. He's too short and too slow,
and yet that overlooks what a tremendous player he was.

(45:34):
I think that's always an interesting thing when you talk
about a coach or a personnel guy evaluating sort of
the metrics of the biometrics versus the performance of a player.
And I think it's always easy when a guy steps
outside sort of those metrics because he doesn't fit the metrics,
and then he makes it and everybody says, oh, everybody
else was an idiot. But you can always go back
to sort of the Bill Parcel's view of life as

(45:55):
well with players that you can't make a living trying
to determine if a guy is an exception, and I
think Welcer, to some degree is an exception. And now
obviously we look at at smaller receivers and say, oh
they they can be like Wes Welker. Some can, some can,
but it also depends on a defined role because Welker,

(46:16):
Welker really did one thing, but he did it so
so well. Welker was not a guy you could line
up outside. He was not going to win on the perimeter.
And I think one of the things about the history
of the game is there's a lot of guys who
have played in the slot, but they played not only
in the slot but outside. Welker and I certainly don't
have numbers. He played a long time, but wouldn't you

(46:37):
guys think that of his snaps if not more came
in the slot. Well, I think that's a good place
to like, let's let's step back. What is a slot receiver. Well,
slot receiver is when you line up with three wide receivers.
You can line up with more, but normally there's three
wide receivers, so obviously there have to be two on

(46:59):
one side and one on the other side of the formation.
So the slot receiver is the inside receiver of the
two wide receivers to one side of the field. Is
there a body type that that position lends itself to.
Not necessarily, There's been many guys over the years who
have played in the slot who are not necessarily small,

(47:20):
quick guys. You can have bigger guys play in the
slot as well. It's really how you structure your offense
and what you ask your slot receiver to do. If,
as the case in New England, you want your slot
receiver to essentially work ten yards from the line of
scrimmage and closer than you're putting a premium in your
philosophy on quickness in a small area. That's a great point,

(47:43):
and I want to there's a bite that um West
has from his interview that didn't make the show. Let's
let's listen to that and here what he has to
say specifically about the Patriots offense. The slot position existed,
I mean it was there. It was just you know,
I think a lot of teams and kind of the

(48:03):
pro way of doing things was run the ball, run
the ball, get it a third and manageable. And now
we bring the slot in and we try to get it,
you know, find a guy can get us a first
down and so we can run the ball again. No,
we're gonna be like first down, second now there, whatever
down it is, it doesn't matter. We're gonna be you know,
in slot formations. We're gonna you know, mix it up

(48:26):
and doing a lot of different plays and stuff where
it was basically a run play, but you were throwing
it and so they put their base defense in there,
and now you've got a linebacker on a slot receiver
and it's just it's a matchup nightmare. So now it's
one of those deals were we're able to you know,
it seems out routes whatever, you know, basically whatever we
wanted to do as far as that when made defensives

(48:49):
change with us and and how they played us, and
you know, now it's the game has completely changed, you know,
And so you know it was it was cool to
be a part of. And you're saying that's a goal
that Belichick had sort of already been working on and
then identified Welker as the perfect profile to fit into
that role that he wanted to implement. Is that accurate?

(49:09):
I would say that's fair. I don't think Bill Belichick
just decided that Wes Welker was a nice player, let's
bring him in and then let's see what happens. I
don't think Bill works that way. But listening to West
right there almost brings me back to Mike Martz with
the Greatest Show on Turf. And I remember talking to
Mike Martz and he basically said that when he was
in Washington with North Turner, one of their philosophies that

(49:31):
they were sitting around as coaches do at night, probably
over a scotch or something, and thinking about pass offense,
and they thought, why don't we run our third down
offense on first down? And they said, that's a good
idea because this is back and maybe the mid nineties
when the slot receiver just as a pure position wasn't
really in vogue yet. So they decided to run their
third down offense on first down, and that involved three

(49:54):
wide receivers. Then, of course, when he got to the Rams,
sometimes it would involve four wide receivers because they had Bruce,
they had Hold, they had Hazakim, and they had Ricky Prole.
So sometimes they line up with in a sense to
slot receivers and they just that's sort of how it
it evolved and grew, and then the position started to
become defined, and along with that, concurrent with that was

(50:16):
the the change in the NFL to wear what we
call eleven personnel, meaning one back, one tight end, and
three wide receivers really became the predominant personnel package that
teams used in the NFL. And if you're lining up
with three wide receivers, somebody has to be in the slot.
When you listen to the To the Bight we just heard,
there are elements in there where I listen and say

(50:37):
that I feel like I could be listening to Bill
Walsh talking about the West Coast offense that we're going
to use the past as a run play. What what's
different about what the Patriots were doing in two thousand
seven with Welker, with what they were doing with Montana
and the West Coast offense in the eighties. Well, I

(50:57):
think what the Patriots did and it cleared the evolves,
and I think the the football life with Wes Welker
gave you a sort of a glimpse into this. With
the relationship that Welker had with Brady and Manning, I'm
talking about the football relationship is the Patriots used a
lot of what are called choice or option routes where

(51:19):
Welker had to work off the leverage of the defender.
Assuming it was not straight man to man, but if
it was a zone type concept, you have to work
off the leverage of the defender, and the quarterback and
receiver don't necessarily know exactly what that leverage might be
until after the ball is snapped, and so they have
to developer a poor and a chemistry. And I know

(51:40):
chemistry can be an overused word, but that's really what
it is, because Brady has to read the leverage of
the defender the same way that Welker reads the leverage
of the defender. And I think that's what sort of
has developed, certainly in New England, but I think there's
other teams that do the same thing. It's hard for
me to say that Brady and Welco were the absolute first.
I was leary of making those kinds of comments, but

(52:02):
they certainly I think took it to another level. There's
a great scene in the in the film where between
Bill Belichick and Welcer where we see the for the
first time an unknown and unheralded punt returner Um in
a preseason game for the Patriots. Um and Welker's reaction

(52:23):
to his emergence. Let's listen to that, so welcer, no go,
He's out like quite the warm up and he said
didn't feel great. So okay. In a preseason game against Philly,
I wasn't playing and Julian returns a punt the seventh
round pick, Julian Edelman, number eleven. Keep an eye on him,
and you know it takes it to the house thirty
five yard line, forty forty five yard line. He he's

(52:45):
gone out tech hit on us pitch Jodi and Edeline
Patriot's seven proud rookie draft pick. You know, of course,
which Belichick comes up to me. He says, you know,
like you heard Wally Pip Wally Pip. Uh you never
heard of him? What he played first base before lou Gary?
Oh okay, that lou Garry started like whatever, it was

(53:06):
twenty three thousand straight games, right, yeah, a little man.
It might be a return story. Oh there you go.
Way to compete, Way to compete. That's his way of
doing things, needling and needln and needling. And I guess
he always felt like I always performed my beat, my

(53:27):
best when my back was against the wall, and I
think that was kind of one of the first time.
So if like kind of really kind of you know,
trying to get at me a little bit. So it
Hallway conversation here at NFL Films, certainly over the last
couple of years. And of course Julian Edelman is out

(53:48):
this year injured. Who's better? Yeah, did Edelman surpass Welker?
I think that Welkered Welker. I think they're different. Okay,
I know that everybody wants to look at them is
the same for many reasons. I think Edelman is a
little more let's put this way. I think Welker is
really short area explosive. I think Edelman has a little

(54:10):
more kind of long speed, not in terms of being
a fourth three eight guy, but I think Edelman can
run routes at a little deeper level more consistently than Welker.
I think they're different players. And I think when you
watch the Patriots with Edelman, he lines up not solely
in the slot, and I think that's because they know
he can do a little more. And again it's not

(54:31):
they're not thinking of it as a comparison. They're just
looking at the player, Edelman and what his strengths are.
And I think he just has the ability to line
up outside as well. We always, you know here at
NFL Films look at the historical aspect of things too.
We talked about Welker in his career kind of coinciding
and catalyzing the definition of this position. If we had
to look back in history, though, and you've been studying

(54:52):
the game a long time, who's the first or a
couple of first slot receivers that we would point to
and say, this is the guy that really represents the
beginning of this type of position showing up on a
regular basis. Like I said, it's hard for me to
say the first, but one guy I absolutely remember, and
he was always talked about as being an absolute master
route runner, was Charlie Joyner Because you go back to

(55:12):
Eric Corriel when they had John Jefferson West channeler and
Charlie Joyner and and Charlie joined the predominantly played in
the slot, not but predominantly. And he was a little smaller,
bigger than Welker, but smaller by wide receiver standard certainly
back in that day, and not as short area quick

(55:33):
as someone like Wes Welker, but a phenomenal route runner,
just a great feel for getting open against man end
zone Charlie Joyner comes to mind. Uh, Keith and I
had talked about someone like Art Monk talking about totally
different body types. Okay, Art Monks six three, probably two
fifteen or two twenty. He lined up in the slot
in that era with Joe Gibbs, when they had Ricky Sanders,

(55:54):
Gary Clark. So you know these are guys you look
back historically they were not solely slot receivers, but they
lined up in this lot. Well, an interesting connection. Gibbs
comes from Core. Is there direct lineage there from coreol
with Join to the to the Art Monk. That's a
philosophy thing. Again, he's very familiar with Don Corriel's philosophy,

(56:18):
because I mean, this is just a very quick aside.
But but Gibbs was there when they drafted Killing Winslow,
and they knew they had this special athlete and they
were lining them up as a conventional tight end in
nineteen seventy nine, I think it was or eighty, and
he was getting beat up off the line of scrimmage.
And it seems so obvious today when we sit here
with the benefit of years. But they said to each other, well,

(56:39):
this guy is really talented. Why do we want him
to get beat up, why don't we just remove him
from the formation. And they split Kellen Winslow out and
that was one of the few times, the first times
that a tight end really was split out wide. So
those guys were thinking different things and Gibbs was part
of that. So when he got to Washington, he sort
of had an expansive philosophy to again with. So last

(57:01):
question from us, and let's Paul, you got anything else
for Craig. This has been great. The last thing we
wanted to talk about. This year marks a major change
in in what Peter King and many others are called
the most underrated football show on television, the Matchup Show
on ESPN. Greg Costel, the longtime producer of that show,

(57:24):
has stepped in front of the camera and there solely
for content. Keith obviously, not for a look, just for content. Yeah,
how's it going. I feel like it's going well. It's
always tough for me to judge, you know. Now. I
watched the show at home on both Saturday morning and
Sunday morning morning. Sometimes it's painful, sometimes it's okay. You know,

(57:45):
I'm trying to get to the point where it's okay.
Um and are you happy with the state of the
This is a totally new you know we you obviously
must miss Jaws and Meryl. Well, yeah, I mean that's
really high standard and the legacy is just, you know,
really hot because of them. Um, I would say the
show is a little different. I would say that Lewis Riddick,
who's really smart and really good, I would say that

(58:07):
he and I are probably in our presentation a little
more clinical than Jaws and Meryl. And I think if
the show was longer, we'd have to work through some
of that a little bit a little more, uh, and
maybe do a few different things here and there. But
it's a twenty one minute show basically, that's that's the
running time, so I think it's okay. I'm still trying
to sort of figure out organically how to create a

(58:30):
little more conversation and you know, again not contrive it,
because I'm not a believer in that, but just to
sort of generate a little more looser conversation and we'll
get there. What what time? What where can we find?
The two main times, you know, are eight thirty am
on ESPN two on Sunday morning, a Saturday morning, excuse me,

(58:51):
Saturday morning these are Eastern times and then Sunday morning
on ESPN at six thirty am, so for most of
their dv our events. But we seem to be getting
a really positive response on Twitter. It's you're a social
media guy, Greg, what's the nature that comes? I don't
know if I'm a social people can follow you onto
what's your Twitter had? Amazingly enough, it's it's you'd never

(59:13):
know it's at Greg co Cel, very good intuitive and
and what kind of Twitter conversation you typically do you
get and do you engage? And well, during the Matchup season,
we were doing a lot on Matchup now with with
with Twitter. But normally I'm very fortunate to be able
to do some radio shows and things like that. So
normally I get a lot of responses to to when

(59:35):
I do radio shows, which now of course people stations
tweet out all the time and uh generate some some discussion. Cool,
all right, Greg, great to have you. Um I know that, Uh, well,
I don't know, but I'm guessing that that the boss
would have been proud. I hope so, I hope so
he he always encouraged this and uh, hopefully this works

(59:56):
out great. It was fun talking to you guys. All right, Well,
hopefully we do it again very soon, Greg Costell. If
there's one detail that that we heard today and that

(01:00:18):
pops through in the in the West Welker Football Life,
that that I think raises your eyebrows more than anything
else is is the moment where West talks about watching
old film of Joe Montana and Jerry Rice with Tom Brady.
It made us think that maybe the best way to
wrap up the first ever NFL Films podcast would would

(01:00:39):
be to play some of an old interview that Steve
Sable himself did with Jerry Rice, which was recorded on
top of a hill in I Believe. Hi, I'm Steve
Sable and I'm out of breath. That's what I am,
because I've just walked to the top of this mountain

(01:01:00):
here in the outskirts of San Francisco. And you might wonder, well,
this is sort of a strange place to begin our
show this week, but actually it's not because my guest
host is the king of the hill when it comes
to wide receivers, and that's Jerry Rice, and this mountain
trail is actually part of his personal workout program and

(01:01:23):
uh here he comes right now, Hey, now, you're not
even out of breath. No, I'm getting how often do this?
Every day? You do this mountain? Everything? When we run
this hill three times, they we on the track for
two days, and Uh, I think it's really starting to
pay off for me. You know, this is something I've
been been doing for a long long time. You know.
Walter Payton used to do something like this, but not

(01:01:44):
a big hill, you know, like a like an incline.
And he used to he used to have a little
voice inside that. He told me, said that this little
voice used to say, you gotta do better, You gotta
do better. Do you have some sort of little voice
inside of you or some motto that you keep repeating
to do this for for this long and to get
to the level of excellence that you but you must
have something inside of you saying repeating over and over it.
I think it never quit. You know. If you get

(01:02:07):
into that quit and mode when you're tired, Uh, you're
gonna stop. Whenever I challenge this. Hell, I make it
a purpose not to quit if I'm doing anything. If
I'm not there just running sprints, you never want want
to really get it inside you. Okay, I'm tired. I
can quit now when I'm running this hill by myself,
if there's no one else around, I'm not gonna quit now.

(01:02:28):
When all the audience thinks that Jerry Rice, you think
of number one, the greatest receiver whoever played the game.
You think to work ethic. And I hear all these
things written about you. What do you think is your
most overrated virtue? The thing that you hear about you
or you hear written about you. But you think and
you say, you know, I don't think that's true. Well, uh,

(01:02:48):
you know, coming out of college, I was not because
of my speed. Uh. You know when I read a
little close saying, well, Jerry Race, he's not as fast.
I think it. Really, I'm fast as fast as I
want to be. Uh. You know, there's so many guys
they are faster. But when I put that in uniform on,
you know, I feel like I confort into Superman or

(01:03:09):
something like that. I believe I can't be called Uh.
And if I get a step on you, I feel
like I can go to distance. What I think is
fascinating about this interview is that even though Jerry Rice
is a very different player than Wes Welker, both of
them were underdogs in their own way, and and Jerry
Rice carried a very similar chip on his shoulder to

(01:03:31):
Wes and you hear that come out in this interview.
You can follow NFL Films and all of your favorite
social media channels at NFL Films on Twitter, you can

(01:03:57):
like us on Facebook and de Graham. There's an NFL
Films YouTube channel constantly being populated with our latest works.
Where can we watch the Welcer film Keith? NFL Network.
The premiers Friday night, October six, and it'll be on

(01:04:18):
demand on your local network wherever you might live. Thanks
to our engineer Terry, our producer Bennett, our assistant Rich
who helped make this first broadcast. See that, Paul, you're
talking over the best part. The song just opened up.

(01:04:41):
We're talking over the crescendo. Will be more melody there
it is, so it was. That's the good stuff right there.
Steve say Able's birthday, October two. Hopefully the Boss would

(01:05:04):
have liked this one. Thanks everyone,