On the latest NFL Players: Second Acts podcast, former All-Pro receiver turned private equity businessman Muhsin Muhammad joins Peanut and Roman. The guys start out talking Super Bowls, including Muhsin’s record-setting touchdown catch in Super Bowl XXXVIII and playing with Peanut in Super Bowl XLI. Muhsin later shares how legendary coach Nick Saban’s forgiveness changed the trajectory of his life. In the NFL, Muhsin was known as a hothead early in his career, and he tells the guys how Hall of Famer Reggie White’s influence helped him eventually bloom into a team captain.
Muhsin started to prepare for life after football while he played. He shares his decision to attend Wharton Business School, which led him to achieve success in the world of private equity. And Muhsin gives flowers to the four people who made his personal Mount Rushmore. All that, and more, in a conversation you don’t want to miss.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Musai Mohammad, fourteen year NFL VET, retired player now
and businessman and family man. And this is NFL player
Second Actors Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thanks for tuning in.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I'm Peanut tuning and this is the NFL Player's Second
Acts Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
I'm Peanut.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
This is my guy Rome.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
What's good dog? Thanks man for always having that was
very normal coming.
Speaker 5 (00:36):
In so but I guess you're gonna be professional because
you got a professional. We got a real professional on
the show right now.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
So I have a nickname for you this time I
saw that.
Speaker 5 (00:45):
Thanks for all the viewers and listeners. Always tune in.
Make sure you give us a five star rating. Get
that give us a review, leave a couple of comments,
and don't forget to hit that follow button and subscribe
wherever you pick up. Your podcast was Apple Podcasts. iHeartRadio
app Thanks for as always, And Peanut, I'm really really
excited about this gentleman that we have in He's become
a good friend of mine. I would say he's a
(01:07):
legend in the community in which I live right now
in Charlotte, North Carolina, and many many other places, especially
with all the things that he's doing off the field
as well.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
So go ahead and tell us who we got.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
This next guest is a really good personal friend of mine,
and yeah, we had some battles in Chicago.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
We've heard.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Yeah, he played fourteen years in this league. He is
in the Panthers Hall of Honor. He's an entrepreneur, he
is a Emmy winning broadcaster. Ladies and gentlemen, Moussa mohammeds, Yeah,
the pop Welcome to the pop man, No, you know
not any huh?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah, well, I mean I started with kind of doing
stuff with you back and don't know if you remember
that Chicago. We had a little messing up, playing around
with it, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I forgot about that.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
We forgot about that.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
You and I had a radio show right there in
Chicago at Hell's Hall. About that.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I did forget about that.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yeah yeah, so yeah, no, I mean, you know, we
cut our teeth early. I mean I spent a little
bit of time going over the NFL. You're doing games
and stuff like that. But yeah when when uh what
was that the my first year in Chicago? You know,
you and I had a radio show together, man, that
used to mess around a little bit there. Yeah, you
forget about that. My first bringing up old stuff I'm
bringing up old.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Yeah it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Remember, I just honestly I remember now, but.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Put his hands on me so much today he started
forgetting about all the all the other stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Hey, you just took me back with that.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
That moves you.
Speaker 5 (02:44):
Are one of four players to score a touchdown in
the Super Bowl with multiple teams.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Multiple teams?
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Yeah, do you know who the other three are?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Gosh, that's a good question. Now, I don't take a guess.
I'm gonna guess Andre Rising might have been one of them.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
No, no, he only scored with Green Bay.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Green Bay.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Good guest though.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
Okay, all right, the other one, come on, I want
you to get this one.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
In the Super Bowl with multiple teams.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Greatest of all time?
Speaker 1 (03:17):
J Rice? Yes, okay, Jerry Rice, Jerry Rice. Then I'll
give you a tight end, oh tight end Gronkowski.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
There we go.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
The other guys is a former teammate of yours and.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
The other guys a former teammate. Yes, I'm gonna say.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
There it is.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
It is.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
He guess with you, guys, right, he did? Yes, exactly bad.
If you give me a little.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
The horse, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah that makes sense.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
Now, yeah, it does all right, So, and back in
Super Bowl thirty eight for all of you that don't know,
that was when the Panthers played the New England Patriots.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Now you called an eighty five yard touchdown.
Speaker 5 (04:00):
I watched that in my college apartment, and uh, man,
that was awesome.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
I was cheering for you guys. I really was.
Speaker 5 (04:07):
Going for the Panthers big time that year. I just
really is a big fant of Steve Smith. Yourself, Jake
Delone seemed like just the guy that was just making
it happen.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
It was.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
You guys were a fun team to watch.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
I was, you know, you weren't Peanut, get out of here, Jake.
I was to take a sarcast.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
That wasn't fake. We're gonna get the raise occasion.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
We met in the hole. But but I had to
get on a line of screience with this guy, you know,
like he's grabbing the whole stuff, you know, fighting and
touching every day and practice, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5 (04:41):
Uh, after you call that ball, because it was I
think it was at the sixth minute mark, a little
bit a little bit around that mark.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
In the fourth quarter, you guys took the lead. Uh
in your mind?
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Is that over in my mind, Tom Brady wasn't absolutely
not no, because I don't know if you watched like
these Super Bowl throwbacks and all that kind of stuff
and these uh, you know, documentaries of the game. But
when I came to the sideline, I told Steve, I said,
it ain't over. I said, you know what the quarterback
is on the other side. I said, that's Tom Brady.
Bro this this game any close to being over with?
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:11):
And you know, I mean I think we had a
record how many points was scored in that Super Bowl
in the fourth quarter, maybe like almost thirty five forty points?
Speaker 4 (05:19):
That real back and forth.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah, it was real back and forth. But I mean
I knew that I was strapped up and ready to
go because we weren't even close going to be done
on that game.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
And do you know that is also I don't know
you may know this. I assume you know this longest
touchdown in passing.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
In Super Bowl history history?
Speaker 5 (05:35):
Yeah, record, yeah, still the record to the record five
yards old. To make sure all of our viewers know this,
because we're here to educate and entertain. Yeah, usually not
in that order.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
But yeah, So we had the luxury, we had the
privileged honor to play in Super Bowl forty one. Forty one,
that was your second loss, So it was my first one.
And then I went on to play in Super Bowl
fifty and I went on to lose that one. How
tough was it for you to lose that first.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
One, the first one? It was. It was very tough
the first one. It was very emotional, and you know,
we were the underdogs. What we had to overcome that
year by beating Dallas in the first round and then
(06:22):
going to Saint Louis, beating Kirk Warner Mike Marks the
greatest show on turf in Saint Louis and then walk
off style right, Smitty Smitty walking off.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
This is when you guys happened.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I was all in, yeah and that you know, and
then you know, you got Andy Reid, Donovan McNabb with
Philly and you need to win that championship game. And
I don't know if you guys know this story, but
like the night before the game that in that championship game,
one of these Philly fans set off the alarm, the
fire alarm in the hotel. So we were outside in
(06:56):
the cold right before the championship game. It was crazy,
but Philly, right. But anyway, so like that build up,
man was amazing, like for the game, and it was
a letdown. That was a big letdown. But I would
say this that the only people in the world that
expected us to win that game were probably the guys
(07:17):
in that locker room and maybe a few Carolina fans.
When we lost that in the Bears, we were supposed
to win that game.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Everybody thought, you guys, we were supposed.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
To win that game. And we had the talent and
everything else to win that game. So that one hurt.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
What do you what do you think kept us from
winning that game?
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Tell it loose, This is what we do.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
Andre Risen came in here and pointy things that everybody
I've come to hear, and pointy things that everybody who
fifty lost. Yeah, let's be real. What happened besides the ring?
Don't say that.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Well, you know, when you got Purple Rain, you got
Prince in his last so iconic, his last live performance,
you know, in the Stilettos. I don't know if y'all
watched that documentary, but you know, when you got Prince
coming out there seeing Purple Rain in the rain, you know,
in the stilettos. You know, that to me was probably
(08:09):
the only good part of the game, you know, as
I look back on it. But everything else, like, we
just didn't we didn't show up. I mean, you know,
it was a perfect week of weather, the whole week,
and we woke up that morning. I remember doing an
interview with Salmon Wilcox that morning. I woke up and
outside the hotel and it was like, guy's raining out here. So, oh, yeah,
it's gonna rain the whole day. It's like the whole day. Yeah,
(08:31):
it's gonna rain the whole day. And so yeah, that
was a factor. But we ain't show up as a
team when we're show up as a team. And then
we had I don't know, four or five turnovers in
the in the game. Can't do it, you know, we
had I mean I think a lot of people know this,
but we had a lot of controversies surrounding you know,
(08:52):
who was the right quarterback to play? Was it Brian Greasy?
Was it Rex? Rex was hurt? He was coming off
of this with Dad running back, said Benson got hurt.
You know. Thomas Jones was balling right, So we had
like all this balling right, So like there was all
this kind of political satire going on in the background,
and I thought that it just became a distraction.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
Instead, it's going out there and being the best team.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
That your main thing got to be the main thing,
you know, the main thing. If at any time it's
not that, then there's distractions, right, And it's not about
us putting our best foot forward to winning. It was
a whole lot of stuff that distracted us. And offensively,
there's no excuse when you got anar barian over there,
there was lighting stuff up, right, You got me over there.
(09:34):
You got Rashid Davis that was lighting stuff up. You
got two running backs. It don't matter who you get
a ball to. Just getting got Olden Cruits up front
this ball. You know, like we had this squad that
it didin't make no sense for that game. And then
let's not even talk about what our defense was doing, right,
and you know with Peanut, Nate Vash, Mike Brown, like
(09:54):
we had all these guys up front Atawailea Gula. I mean,
we just had this squad that was like amazing, right,
And let's not even bring up Lax and Lance Briggs
and you know, like Hunter Hill and Meyer. We had
all these guys that were just amazing guys, and the
main thing didn't stay the main thing, And that's what
(10:16):
it was. It was. You know, I can't necessarily say
that they were that spectacular. It was just that, you know, boom,
boom boom. We just kept shooting ourselves in the foot, right. Yeah,
so you know, I'm not gonna play any blame. I
take it myself because hell, I didn't have the greatest game,
you know, like I wasn't on the same page my
quarterback and I mean, it's just a lot of stuff
(10:38):
that happen in that game that the best team, I
think the best team that played the best that day one.
But I think the better team didn't show up to
play their best way.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
That's the best thing about football is the team that
plays the best that day wins. Yes, and then the
biggest games, you can't have four or five turnovers. I've
been in a game like that. You look back, you.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Liked, Yeah, I know, defense probably kept grabbing Hime and
like Peanut probably looking at us like come on, man,
y'all got his back on the field again.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Exactly what happens. We did that.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
But it's like low key, like you don't want to
make it so obvious, like god, dang, we just I
remember when I got that, uh, when I got the
force force fumble and then I recovered it, I was
like all right, and I remember going to the sideline
It's like all right, yeah, cool. And then something happened
was a turn off, and I was like.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
God damn, what is we doing again?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
You don't want to project that, and you don't want
your offense to see that, Like come on, y'all, y'all
letting us like you don't it's I think that's bad energy.
But at the same time, you're just like, come on, y'all,
like we were doing it, like I need y'all to
like help us out a little bit. Like that was
kind of one of the things in Chicago that you
are accustomed to. Defensively, I think the majority of my
(11:52):
time in Chicago we were squared away. It was always
the offense trying to get their footing and the defense.
For the most part, we had our footing, but it
was just like, yo, come on, get you, let's go.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
It was kind of the whole mantra too, because I
remember when I came and I was looking at Chicago.
I love you and I talked about like what it
was that we needed, what it was what could take
the Bears over the top. And you know, I was
going into a free agent year that year, and I'm
like I saw the pieces there, and it was a
little bit of offense, right, and a lot of it
(12:26):
was confidence more than it was talent, because the guys
in my room, they just didn't know how to believe
in themselves. Just engage anarbarian Rashid Davis. I mean, we
had guys there that were talented, but I don't know
if they believed in themself at fact. For Sheid was
on defense and we snatched him up and put it,
brought him in the offensive room.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
You know, was killing us on scouts, killing us.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Right, playing arena football or something like that.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Yeah, he was playing arena football, worked at Best Buys
from San Jose State.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Like a real life.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
He had a real life. I don't even know if
you want the Europe NF Europe, I don't think it.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
No, he was just like like Europe or something like that.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
But he got the thickest list. His essence is thrown.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Right there.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Oh my god, Rashik gonna coming.
Speaker 5 (13:14):
But I want to know about this though, Because you
guys were teammates me and you never crossed pass like that,
always against each other.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
What was it like as teammates?
Speaker 5 (13:22):
I know you guys had a radio show that Peanut
didn't remember until today. But what was that like lining
up against each other every day? Because Peanut, he said
you were his first like guy he had to like
really battle and have wars with that practice on a
consistent basis.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Right right, I don't know. I mean from my perspective.
I mean, like I I got challenged early in my
career by some pretty good corners, right, I mean, like
going up against Eric Davis every day. He faced Jerry Rice,
you know, on a regular basis when he was with
the forty nine ers, and I went into a veteran
locker room. So having guys like that, and then like
(13:57):
Doug Evanson where he came from Green Bay, so I
had these big corners I had to go up again.
So when I came to Chicago and I was like
going with a Peanut, I was like he was he
he was frustrating, Like the peanut punch got developed while
we were in practice, and it was frustrating because he
would come up after you make a good move on it,
knock the ball out right, and he'd be like, man,
(14:19):
it was just frustrating, but you know the old saying,
goals her iron shoppings iron right. And it made me
better because you got to remember that I was thirty one.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah, it was my third year, five right, five yeah, five, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I was thirty one years old. Five, So I was
brand new and you were brand new in the league.
And I was like, this young dude is like giving
me the flux every day. But I just was helding
for leather on fighting him every day.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
And because he was getting better though he keeps me young.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I was.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
It was like that.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
That was probably one of the hardest training camps I
went to because I had Martin book or my rookie year.
But Marty was like, come on, man, chill out, Like
you're going too hard.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
Marty.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Marty was that kind of guy, like you're practicing too hard,
Like what are you doing where I have the mentality
of iron Sharper's arm, Like no, man, Like I'm trying
to stay on this field, like I'm I'm not a
star yet, Like I'm trying to develop or be a person,
like in this league, I want to be feared. And
when we got Moose, I didn't know a lot about
(15:26):
him at the time. But then obviously training camp comes
and we are literally just.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Like every day battling. I ain't taking the day off like.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Like we were.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Like, we went at it, and that's how I like it.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I'm not brother in law nobody like, yeah, we went it.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Was just like this.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
We went back and forth, but it was all out
of love though, Like it was like I can honestly say,
like you truly you were the first receiver like to
really get me better early in my career. You got
like the early the young dumb peanut who was just
pure athleticism. No, I wasn't smart. I didn't really know
the game.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
I just was playing.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I was just playing. I was out there like a
dumb ass. I'm just playing, just pure athleticism. And you
kind of taught me how to you know, like, Okay,
maybe I need to not stack him this way like
you you kind of helped me develop my game.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Man.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Now we had our battles and we went to work,
which was beautiful because I mean, if you like with
Penda how he's describing it, I started off my career
that way. I mean, I had this receiving coach god
rest is soul, Richard Williamson, And I'm glad I had
him early on because he coached under Bear Bryant. He
played for Bear Bryant, and you know Joe Namath was
(16:42):
his quarterback back in the day. You know what I'm saying.
So it's like this junction boy mentality, right, Dude, I
played like three years before he even told me good job.
I was in the Pro Bowl before he told me
I had a good season, right, And in the year
in the age where you got like Jerry Rice, and
you got Shannon Sharp or Sterling Sharp, right, and you
got I mean you name it. I mean there was
(17:04):
Chris Carter's and all these different guys. Like if you've
been making a Pro Bowl with them, guys, you better
go to work every day. And so like having that
kind of mentality starting out in the league, that's what
shaped my work habits. So every day I came to practice,
I mean, p know, you know I caught balls before practice. Yeah,
after practice, I went and got some guys and brought
them with me. Put Bernard in front of that jug machine.
(17:27):
Put justin Gage in front of that jumg. Everybody right,
like it's a standard, and so that's what I thought,
like it was always supposed to be. Like so when
you and I were fighting every day, I was like, Oh,
this shit is normal for me. This is normal for me.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
It wasn't for me because my first years I didn't
I didn't have like I wanted that. I was trying
to do that, but I didn't have that that veteran
receiver who was it was just complaining like.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Oh, you're going too hard, You're practicing too much.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
So I'm like, bro, I'm trying to get right, like
I'm I'm trying to be great in this league lane,
trying to just fly another radar.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
And will be right back talking about guys bringing guys
with you.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
Steve Smith said there is no Steve Smith without Moss
and Muhammad.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
But one, how does that make you.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
Feel when you hear that, and for such a great
player as Smitty is that he said, he's I'm nothing
without this man.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
I you know, I don't know invest in people. Man.
This kind of my thing was like I loved my brothers,
and even if they were more successful than me, I
still love my brothers because you know, it's just kind
of who I was, and and I got to this
point in my career where after three or four years
(18:41):
of ups and downs, and I want to win, Like
I don't love anything more than winning, right, Or should
I say I hate to lose more than I love
to win. But I really hate to lose. But I
don't hearing that from Smitty man, because it was a
long time before we could even say that to each other,
because it was this competitive spirit amongst us, but it
(19:03):
was still a route. It was still about like competing
for the sake of the same common goal, but who's
gonna get the most glory and all that kind of
stuff was also a competition, correct. But I think I did,
in a sense brought him with me because I didn't
let him take a day off either, you know. And
I knew that Smitty, I mean the dude run four
(19:25):
two four three, right. He his cast probably wider than
this table right here, right. But I knew that in
order for us to be great, he had to play
great every day, and so I challenged him to be that.
In the days he wanted to take off, I went harder,
which made him look a bat it, so he got
to go harder than I'm going and if I'm going hard,
you going hard and everybody going hard. So it's that's
(19:46):
just the that's the bar that we set was that
we're gonna were just gonna go hard. And when we
got to the games, the games were easy. It was
like almost like I became the voice of reason. I
used to be the attitude person on the team, like
going there, smack safeties, you know, like you know you've
met the whole mini on the occasion, right, I wasn't
(20:08):
gonna slow down.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
You better know, Yeah, you better know about moose out.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
There, right, But some of those attitude issues I had
to like calm steve down because when I get him
hyped up, like he don't know how to slow down,
Like I'm like, man, I better chill out because.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
I'm he gonna go over there.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, he going over the edge, right, and he's gonna
mess around and you know, like get kicked out a
game or something. But it was you know, it was
a it was a It was a really beautiful brotherhood.
And I think we celebrate the connections that we made
both from a competitive spirit and we can appreciate a
whole lot more like what we both got out of
it because he challenged me too, and I learned from
him too, Like let's not get him mistaken, right, like
(20:46):
Smitty took it, took it and said okay, and then
took it to a whole other level. Right, And even
in broadcasting, right, I mean, I gave up TV and broadcasting.
I'm just like focused on a lot of other things
right now. But he's great at that too, right, And
challenged him on a lot of different things. And so
there's a lot there that to the point, iron sharpens iron, right,
(21:09):
So there's a level of admiration, there's a level of
what I would say is humility, and I appreciate him
saying those things. I wouldn't expect it out of them.
I never expected out of them. And I never come
out there and say, oh, I'm the reason he's this,
And like jay Z say when they say, oh I
(21:34):
can I'm the reason jay Z is successful. Jay Z said, well,
if you may, hold will make another hole and you
can't make another Steve Smith. And I didn't make Steve Smith. Right.
I might have challenged him, but I'm honored to be
a part of his legacy. And I'm honored to be
a part of your legacy, right, And I'm honored to
be a part of any of my teammates that I
(21:55):
played with success because that's who I am fundamentally.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
I got I got a question for you. The title captain,
it means something, especially when you're your peers, your teammates,
they vote that or they vote you with that that title.
You've been on two teams and uh, you've been a captain.
You've been voted captain on both teams. How does that
make you feel honored?
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Man? I mean when you captain Pro Bowl? You know,
those are votes that your peers, your opponents, those votes
mean something special to me. They do, right, Yeah, I
mean because we all made money, we all did well
with that. But then there's like this whole other fundamental
part of like building up people, right, and those relationships
that you build while you're in the game are far
(22:42):
more important. It lasts longer than anything else. Right, So
those things are those things are special to me. And yeah,
I mean being a team captain, voted amongst your peers
and embracing it. And I'll tell you where I got
that from, because I wasn't that way early on in
my my life. Right about was it my third year
(23:05):
in the league, Reggie White came on our team, right,
and Reggie he embodies what it means to be a
captain and a leader.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Yeah right.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
I don't know if any of y'all ever got a
chance to never lead around, but Reggie White in the
locker room was amazing. And he's the one to meet
that came to me and was like, man, you're great
and all these You're gonna be real good in your career.
I was like my third year, right before I made
my first Pro Bowl, and he was like, you got
to take some guys with you. He was like, you're
(23:37):
doing all this stuff you're doing. I'm watching you, young guy,
because you stay after practice, you come before practice, You're
doing all this stuff. You get all these work habits,
you stay in the film room, take some guys with you,
and we're gonna it's gonna make the team better. And
that's where I kind of like shifted my whole career
around being unselfish and building up other people around me,
(24:01):
you know what I mean. And that's that's when I
started to become a captain of the team, like after
my fourth year in the league and then beyond was
about building.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Up men do you remember when you were the captain
in Chicago. Funny story. We were playing baseball in our
locker room, and it's all the captains. It's t Jones,
it's you, it's Olan, Mike Brown. So they decided to
play some baseball. We got like this makeshift bat with
like a little hook in it. Right, So we're getting
(24:30):
ready to go to a meeting and we had a
little We had a towel and you wrapped it up
with some tape. Somebody throws a pitch. I don't know
who was batting. Somebody swung dirty cloth bands with the basis. Yeah,
dirty close bands were the basis. So whoever pitches someone
bad at whatever they swing it, they hit it, make
full contact. The damn hook piece flies off the bat
(24:55):
and goes into Fred Miller's leg. It flew right into
his leg in there like in there. It's so he
got to get stitches.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
It's just like Thursday or Friday.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Kids is playing and got wild.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Somebody next thing, you know, they gotta go see lovey Well,
and I'm only I'm telling it. I should let you
tell the story. But the way Mike Brown told he
was like, so, guys, where are the captains what happened?
And then somebody was like, all the captains were there,
we were playing. All the captains was playing It's our fault.
(25:38):
But that was oh yeah, that was that was Oh man,
I'll never forget that story where the captains that the captains.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Was playing coach first base coach.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Oh my god, I don't. I've never been in the
Saints locker room. I ain't been in the locker room
or Michigan State. But I'd be hard pressed to tell
you that Chicago back in the five oh six, o seven,
I'd be willing to bet that locker room games, the
games that we played in our locker rooms are up here.
(26:15):
It's we set a.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Game, shooting game, four square.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
The soccer game we used to play, the voluin or whatever.
Oh my yeah, we we had some games.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
We had a game today.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
The whole culture of the whole.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Box them up box.
Speaker 5 (26:33):
I think that's that's the one thing that a lot
of people don't give. They see the results on Sundays, yeah,
but it's all those little things in the camaraderie, the companionship,
the togetherness that you build from Monday to.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
Saturday is what allows you to be great on Saturday.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
On Sundays, it's like the willingness to go a little
bit more for that guy because of the hit that
he had on Wednesday in the locker room we're playing baseball.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Right Like.
Speaker 5 (26:59):
Those are the things that I don't think a lot
of people get. And it's also the little things like
what you said, Reggie White.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
I thought that was beautiful.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
Yeah, because we know of Reggie White, his spirit, the
person he was, but for him to see you as
a young player, be like, hey, you need to bring
somebody which spoke like that. Those things you never know
who that veteran guy is, or those little words that's
gonna stick with somebody forever. And it's like, man, like
(27:25):
the fact that Reggie even said something to me, yeah
means gold.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
I remember I.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
Covered Steve Smith in the back line of an zone
my rookie year before I tore my ACL Week two
playing in Carolina.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
I don't even know.
Speaker 5 (27:36):
I think you guys won the game. I don't even remember,
but I covered him. He said, hey, man, i've been
watching you on film.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
You're gonna be a good player.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
For him to say that to me when I told
you I was a fan of you guys since when
you guys went to Super Bowl and I didn't even.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
Think he knew who I was.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
But those little things like that checking the box in
your memory.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
You never let it go.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
So why you hit him in the back, man?
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Because I didn't run over there for.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
I remember that.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
But it made the better though it did. It did.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
There was something about that I was his smitty and then.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
It was.
Speaker 5 (28:24):
But those things are why they remember me, and I'm
cool with that.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
We're going to take a short break and we'll be
back in a minute.
Speaker 5 (28:33):
What I want to get to you about is post career.
Number one, what was that transition like for you? Because
that's what we always like to ask everybody about that.
And then also number two, how did you get into
private equity?
Speaker 4 (28:47):
I know you went to uh the.
Speaker 5 (28:48):
Business school, that Wharton business school that you pen but
kind of lead us into that.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Tell us that story, man, that's interesting. So the transition
was I think I was ready. You know, I came
back to Carolina to play thirteen and fourteen years I
was thirty seven years old. I had a young family
at the time, you know, my kids were like going
into high school at that time, and I was ready
(29:14):
to just I wasn't ready to keep moving around and going.
And I had this opportunity that I had been developing
around the private equity sector. And you know, up until
that point, I had some experiences investing capital, had been
involved in some real estate and some operating companies as
a passive investors at LP, So I got to sit
(29:36):
in the backseat and just kind of understand and learn.
And when I came back from Chicago back to Carolina,
I approached Jerry Richardson, who was the owner of the
Panthers at the time, and I painted this vision for
him of what I wanted to build. And I wanted
to have this opportunity to invest capital in a larger
(29:58):
platform and owned some operating companies, built some businesses, and
create some generational wealth. And so he introduced me, well,
actually he brought in Hugh McCall, who was called and Charlotte.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
He was a former chairman of Bank of America. And
there was a gentleman that worked for mister McCall. His
name is Dennis Akaensu, and Dennis and I met and
over the next two years we started developing a plan
for UH, this private equity firm, and so we started
(30:33):
meeting with some people. It's another guy named Ray Growth
who's a partner of mine. He started the investment banking
division four what's now Wells Fargo, but at the time
it was First Union became Wakovia and Ray had a
law degree. He practiced law with Crevaswayne and Moore and
got into transactions with First Boston. It was acquired by
(30:54):
Credit Swiss, and so we all came together and really
started thinking about raising capital and buying some operating companies.
And so, you know, after playing for a couple of
years with the Carolina Panthers, I said, you know, it's
time to go try something else, to do something else,
be available for my family, and do some other things
(31:15):
that I think, you know, challenged me a little bit, right,
challenged me, intellectually, challenged me in a lot of different ways.
And so I decided to leave playing ball and start
this private equity fund. And so, you know, we raised
some capital and then we're off to the races.
Speaker 5 (31:32):
So well, you the exact example that everybody says, like,
start planning for your career after it's like while you're
in your career.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Yeah, but you did it right. Well, thank you. I
appreciate that, but you know it was organic. I mean
it happened. You know, I was early in my career.
I was exposed at private equity. Actually it was more
venture capital. I just put a little bit of money
in with Ronnie Lott and Joe Montana and Harris Bartan.
They approached me when they were starting Champion Venure. So
(32:01):
you know, I like golf, so it got me a
chance to go out to Pebble Beach and play golf.
But you know that exposure to these Fortune five hundred
companies and Deutsche Bank and you know, Sequoia Capital and
all these different platforms started to sort of shape my
thoughts around investing. And then I was able to, you know,
(32:24):
kind of get involved in some other operating companies and
things like that. So I had this kind of mix
of experience as an LP and also invest in capital.
And then I did some stuff around real estate as well,
so I could really start to shape my mind around
what I wanted to do. And if you play for
thirteen or fourteen years, you have a luxury of kind
of crafting and extra strategy, right, And you know, it's
(32:48):
a luxury that a lot of us don't have because
we don't get a chance to play that long and
the rug gets pulled from underneath our feet. But you know,
I've always been a guy that challenged myself both in
the lectury. I'm an avid reader. You know, Peanut probably
tell you that I used to be sticking on the
back of the bus with Dan Brown books and all
other kind of stuff. So you know, I've always been
a person that sort of challenged myself in different ways.
(33:10):
And when I got back to the Carolinas, I had
two years and I said, you know, I don't want
to be beholden to this game anymore. And after, you know,
I had a good my fourteen year, I had eight
hundred something yards and had a good I mean, it
was just time for me. I thought it was time
for me to pursue some other interest. So that's kind
of my story of how I decided just to cut
(33:34):
it off and go in a different direction.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
So all your kids are grown, and yeah, they're all
out the house. You're an empty nester, empty nestor man.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
My oldest is in law school at Syracuse. My second
oldest graduated from culinary school, and there's a chef and
does her own She has like a healthcare beauty line. Yeah,
of products. My third oldest is in medical school up
in Boston. My two boys are undergrad in the middle,
(34:03):
and my baby girl, she runs the whole show man.
She's twenty years old. She works for this insurance company
and she's doing quite well. So they're all grown and
gone and me and a wife are free to move
about the country. Man.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
So yeah, so I think I know the answer. But
what what's bringing you happiness right now?
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Man? Just watching watching them grow? Yeah, I'm really into
my kids and into my wife and uh so I'm
into my family. I enjoy fishing a lot, man. I'm like,
you know, I got a couple of ponds on my place,
so I like enjoy fishing, still enjoy reading. Yeah, but
(34:48):
you know, just watching the kids kind of be successful. Man,
that's I I'm like, really, really really getting into that.
And I started to get saw a peanut. Like back
in the day, you know, I was a dude. So
like I actually cry and stuff that makes me happy.
Now it's crazy, Like I it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
I brag about it all the time.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
I'm like, man, my budding's going on. Like I find
myself crying because I'm happy sometimes, like what the heck
is going on with me? Man? Like this this thing
is crazy, right, But like my oldest is really doing
well in law school with Syracuse, right and calls me
and tells me about you know, some of the stuff
that's taking place and stuff they're studying, and it's just beautiful,
(35:33):
Like I love it, right, And then you know, I
got a son. I got two boys that are My
younger son runs track and he just broke the school
record in the fifteen hundred. He ran in three forty
one in the fifteen hundred. So like I got emotional
about that because they posted this thing on Instagram that
he broke the school record in the fifteen hundred. And
(35:56):
then I got another boy. Now he's like, you know,
playing college football and having success there. So like watching
the kids be successful, man, it's like I find so
much joy in that.
Speaker 5 (36:08):
Well, talking about that number one, I see moose moose
the second a lot because I heard the third. Sorry,
I see him a lot covering the SEC and he's
at text A and M. The one handed catch you
had his freshman year was amazing. But talking about kids
and being proud of them, I'd be remorse if I
(36:29):
didn't bring this up. And that is the fact. How
often Nick Saban uses you as an example to everybody
else that always tries to say.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Everybody, I meant yes, describe what it was.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Right.
Speaker 5 (36:46):
No, No, I didn't. And I never played for Nick.
He came to Alabama at the year after I left. Okay,
So but he uses you as a great example. So
the media when some some player gets in trouble, and
he's always the first to say, well, I know the
media wants me to run the kid off, throw the
kid off the team, whatever, whatever, And I refuse to
(37:07):
do that. I believe in second chances. These young men
make mistakes and it's okay, and so I'll reprimand him
the way I'm going to do it. But he said,
the best example is you that you have got in
trouble on the Michigan State and everybody wanted me to
get rid of the kid. And he's like, if you
want the kid on the street, or is he better
on this field getting better in this locker room and
where we can you know he's going to grow and
(37:29):
he's gonna make mistakes, but he's going to be better
if we keep him. And he's like, the man grew
up he's owning her own company. He's got a kid
at Princeton, he's got a kid doing this, he's got
a kid, all these other things. The man's more successful
than anything else. And you guys want me to get
rid of him. And so he takes pride in an
example of you. And so when you hear that and
you know these things, what does that do for you?
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Like I said, that makes me appreciative, right, because like
he invested in me. Yes, he believed in me. So
I'm trying to make him look good. Right. I think
it's and it's a way to show appreciation and thanks too, right,
And I am thankful that Nick believed in me. And
(38:15):
I think he promotes this example because it's an example
that actually played out the right way. That I think
the stories that he loves to happen for kids, right.
And the reality is that we probably don't have enough
good examples in our communities, right, growing up of these
situations where guys are come from these in battle, you know,
(38:38):
Detroit is like home for me. I don't know if
you know that, but like I was born in Lands
in Michigan, but my parents are from Detroit. So my
dad went to Northwestern. My mom went to Southwestern Detroit
right here, So I spent a lot of time in
this city. And matter of fact, my old man is
a police officer here in Detroit. He's seventy four years old,
and he's out here right now at the super Bowl
(39:01):
on patrol, on patrol right now, working as a police
officer right now. The reason I say all that is
because we don't have a lot of good examples in
these communities, but we have these in battled communities, and
then anytime somebody gets in trouble, it's like throw them
to the wayside, right, And I think I think Nick,
(39:21):
even if the second chances don't work, he believes in
the best in people. Yeah, and you should, right to
a certain degree. The people who take those examples, excuse me,
those second chances, and they do something real with it. Yeah,
I think he wants to use that as an example,
(39:43):
and rightfully so. And I feel indebted in a way, right.
But I'm also appreciative of the second chance because it
was a mistake, right, and people make those in life,
So you know, what you do with your opportunities are important, right,
And so I got real serious about life after that. Yeah,
So and and then just grew as a purse continued
(40:06):
to grow every day. Man, you learn something from you know,
you can learn something from people every days. Homeless person
on the street can teach you something, right, So it
doesn't matter who it is, man, you can learn something
from anybody anytime if you're willing and you're open to it.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
So what was your welcome to the NFL moment?
Speaker 5 (40:24):
Yeah, I mean you came here the second year of
Panthers existence, Yeah, second round.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
My welcome to the NFL moment was training camp my freshman,
my rookie said, freshman, my rookie year. There was this
guy he wore number twenty seven. You remember back in
the day I did, probably still do. Hold on, I'm
(40:51):
gonna tell you the story. But you remember, back in
the day, you spend a week in training camp, right,
and the drills were live practices, alive, all this stuff. Right.
So we go out to Denver and we got training
camp in the mile High was you know, all the
elements and everything. But there was this guy would I
think it's just twenty seven. His name was Steve Atwater.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
Oh oh that twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Yeah, And we had live drills and I remember it was.
It was a live team drill and they were in
corters coverage and I was outside and I had to
run a slant rock and I can hear him calling
it out lance slants, lands land slant corners, backing up
and I could see him, you know, coming down, looking
(41:37):
down in the and all of a sudden, you know,
I'm fearless, right, I'm gonna run this slant. So so
after I wake up looking up and you know, I
got Steve Atwater like this all of me like, because
he just leveled me. Right, So you know what I
had to do wrong? I got up and start a fight, bro.
Speaker 6 (41:57):
You know, he was like I got to fight you, right,
because after you did knock me silly, and I'm sitting
there and you know, as I'm coming to.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
I'm like here this dude over me like barking, right,
I gotta fight. I gotta fight. So I got up
and I started a nice little you know, training camp,
bra the news and the whole thing. Man, Yeah, that.
Speaker 4 (42:26):
Was bigger than you too.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
Everybody fights.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
He's taller than me. That is so big taller than me. Yeah,
he brought that heat, man, and he was like, uh,
like a coil. He was tall, but he could. He
was linky like a basketball player. He can coil up
like this and it just boom and just explode on
you just knock you in the next week, Right, And
that joker hit me so hard. He hit me so hard.
(42:51):
I was just and and I was out for a second,
you know how you just laying there for a second.
But you know back then they just got your bell run. Yeah,
and I could. I can just hear him over the
top me like, and I'm just looking. By the time
I came to, I could see his jersey and I
could see his legs over the top of me.
Speaker 4 (43:05):
Right.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
It was time to fight, That's all I know. I was, Yeah,
it was it was time to fight.
Speaker 4 (43:09):
It to fight.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
I want to know about the time you put the
word decoy on your jersey when you when when you.
Speaker 4 (43:23):
One that's fighting.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
What's what's the story behind that?
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Yeah? That was like what my third year in the league.
Speaker 4 (43:32):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
He was a young one.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, I was young and feisty, man, you know, but
we we got George Seaffert as a as a head coach,
and I had been balling. Man, I was like, I
mean at that year, I wound up I think leading
the NFL and catches. I had like one hundred something
catches that year. But about midway through the season, Seafford
(43:56):
comes to me. He's like, you know, you're drawing a
lot of double coverage. I'm like and and and he's like, well,
you know, this week, you know, I think you know,
we just want you to kind of be a decoy
because you know you're doing these double coverages. We can
start leaking the tight ends behind you and this, this,
this and the other. And I'm looking at him like,
who says that to a dude who's in the middle
(44:18):
of a season balling like killing me right? I said,
so you let me get this right, Coach, you want
me to be a decoy? He was like, yeah, you know, decoy.
Speaker 4 (44:31):
You know, dress it up by shivering your shoulders.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Decoy.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
So so I was like, okay, well I'll be decoy
this week. And I wrote decoy on the back of
my jersey, went out to practice with I taped it
right nuts and they were like, what are you doing
with that on your jersey? Coach told me I was
decoy this week. So that's what I am. Decoy.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
Such a jerk.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
It was, man, it was, it was. It was shallow, man,
I was you know, I was fight it was you know,
it was it was I was acting out and I
was you know, my pride was a little hurt.
Speaker 4 (45:04):
So what did you learn from that? Were you right?
Speaker 1 (45:11):
You know, what did you learn from that in the moment,
Probably not a lot other than you know, I was
probably more stubborn than I should have been. I was
being selfish, you know, I shouldn't have been that way.
As I look back on it now, you know, we
do have these things, even though we call ourselves mature,
(45:31):
but it's you know, there's a learning process along the way, right,
It's also going to be maybe a setback here and there.
So I did kind of learn that. Man. It was
probably not the best decision, right, I know, I probably
didn't have the best but you know, like I said, man,
it was one of these things where I don't think
(45:55):
either George Seaffert or I don't think we either one
of us made good decisions there. Because there's a way
to either handle that, even as a head coach with
your top players, where you donna go to them and
tell them that they're gonna be a decoy. Yeah, right,
So I didn't handle it that well though, and I
could have handled it better. I think that's the takeaway.
Speaker 5 (46:13):
Yeah, man, we appreciate you coming on the podcast. Man,
you gotta let me know your the question. Man, we
asked everybody this. It can't let you out without that though.
Who is on Mussim Muhammad's Mount Rushmore of influence football coaching, family,
Like who's influenced you the most?
Speaker 4 (46:35):
You get four to be who you are? Right now?
Speaker 1 (46:39):
That's good. I would say it's a good question. It's
a good question never asked.
Speaker 3 (46:48):
I won't if I never heard that one.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
I'm gonna start off with Jesus first, all right, I'm
gonna start off with faith, right, Hey, Zeus, I like it. Yeah,
in terms of just the game itself, I'm gonna say
Richard Williamson man my first position coach.
Speaker 4 (47:13):
Man, like the one that didn't tell you good job, to.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
The one I hated until I love until I loved him.
You know what I'm saying. Yeah, I spoke at his funeral, right,
but I also like punched him in the chest after
you had heart surgery, you know what I'm saying. Like
I was like this, like we had this love hate relationship, right. Uh.
(47:39):
Of influence right, I would say, Kyle Lee. For people,
all I get is four huh m hmm.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
I mean we know there's a lot more, but we
just gotta you can bunch it up. Yeah, we ain't
got that much tape, man.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
I know, right. I would definitely say my uh my
father in law. Man. He was a guy, Bob Holtz Man.
He was a valedictorian of his Bible school, married a
black woman in the sixties and went through a whole
lot or seventies, kicked out of school as a valedictorian,
(48:21):
and he's still married over forty years, I guess for
almost fifty years. His library is ridiculous. The books he
has is unmatched. There's no way you can even And
(48:42):
then Lee, I only give four. So I would say
those three pretty impactful. And then I would say, Lee,
this is kind of random, man, but probably Brah Obama,
you know really, yeah, why Brah? The power and influence
(49:09):
and leadership man and poise under pressure, being able to
handle so much with the weight on your shoulder and
having that composure unmatched, Right, I agree, So I will
(49:30):
start with them for but.
Speaker 4 (49:32):
I'm cool with that. I like it.
Speaker 5 (49:34):
Your word, your your your mount Rushmore has been accepted,
and we'll put it out accepted.
Speaker 3 (49:40):
We've never rejected.
Speaker 4 (49:42):
That's why I said it's been accepted.
Speaker 5 (49:45):
Does he doesn't need to know you've never rejected anybody
accept it?
Speaker 1 (49:49):
Okay, I don't know. I guess that's my randomness, but
you know, like.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
I will accept it.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Yeah whatever. Yeah, but that's off the top of my head.
That would be the That would be the four right there,
for you know.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
I like the four good ones.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
Yeah, it would be my four. Just to thinking of it.
Right now.
Speaker 3 (50:06):
We appreciate you again. Have you got anything else before
I say I appreciate you for you cut me off
for like the fifth time, the fifth time.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
Let me just say this too before y'all we wrap
to show up.
Speaker 4 (50:14):
Man.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
I love y'all platform too. Man. I think y'all do
an amazing job. Man, you know, thank you. Yeah. I
don't know what they call either. Trop I watch from
a distance, right, and I just admire guys who are
good at what they do, take it serious and have
you know, a certain level of professionalism, and so I
really appreciate what you guys bring in this forum and
(50:35):
the exposure to topics y'all covering what y'all do. Man,
it's because there's a whole lot of media out there
that I don't really think is the right kind of
influence on people. But I like what y'all doing.
Speaker 4 (50:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 5 (50:51):
I'm trying to get that emmy, like you, Broat, I
put that on my vision board.
Speaker 4 (50:55):
Is it one of my goals?
Speaker 3 (50:57):
And you can't get it with sec nation. You got
to get it with us.
Speaker 4 (51:00):
Well, I'm cool. I don't care how I get it.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
You gotta get it with us.
Speaker 5 (51:03):
I don't care whose names on it. You know you
got to. I got to be on it with you. You
take take me with you, take somebody with you, Take me.
Speaker 6 (51:11):
With you, take me with you.
Speaker 4 (51:15):
Take me with you.
Speaker 3 (51:16):
Take me and Thomas we got you dog, and I see,
take us all with you.
Speaker 4 (51:22):
Hey, all right, we're gonna get out of here on that. Man.
Appreciate that, Moose Man number love.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
Man.
Speaker 5 (51:27):
You know how much you mean to us individually, to
the city, your family. I'm so proud and happy for
you for real. There it is that he knows what
up though. Okay, that's that's all you all right, man,
(51:48):
We don't get you out of here. Man, Thank you
for all our listeners and viewers always out there tuning in,
give us that five star rating, leave us a review, leave.
Speaker 4 (51:55):
A couple of comments, ask the questions we love to love.
Get back up, man. We will continue keep this thing going.
Speaker 5 (52:01):
Our beautiful guest Musy and Muhammad today and wherever you
pick up your podcast with its iHeartRadio app or the
Apple podcasts, please continue to tell a friend to tell
a friend, to tell a friend. We're doing big things,
shining on big lights, big lights on all of our
great NFL legends man, and getting to know so many
more of our heroes that we got to watch, play
alongside and be a part of your lives.
Speaker 4 (52:22):
So step one, man.
Speaker 3 (52:23):
This podcast only work when y'all listen, So we preachate
y'all listening and tuning in on Peanut Moose, That's wrong,
NFL Player second X podcast. We out
I'm Musai Mohammad, fourteen year NFL VET, retired player now
and businessman and family man. And this is NFL player
Second Actors Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thanks for tuning in.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I'm Peanut tuning and this is the NFL Player's Second
Acts Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
I'm Peanut.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
This is my guy Rome.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
What's good dog? Thanks man for always having that was
very normal coming.
Speaker 5 (00:36):
In so but I guess you're gonna be professional because
you got a professional. We got a real professional on
the show right now.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
So I have a nickname for you this time I
saw that.
Speaker 5 (00:45):
Thanks for all the viewers and listeners. Always tune in.
Make sure you give us a five star rating. Get
that give us a review, leave a couple of comments,
and don't forget to hit that follow button and subscribe
wherever you pick up. Your podcast was Apple Podcasts. iHeartRadio
app Thanks for as always, And Peanut, I'm really really
excited about this gentleman that we have in He's become
a good friend of mine. I would say he's a
(01:07):
legend in the community in which I live right now
in Charlotte, North Carolina, and many many other places, especially
with all the things that he's doing off the field
as well.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
So go ahead and tell us who we got.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
This next guest is a really good personal friend of mine,
and yeah, we had some battles in Chicago.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
We've heard.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Yeah, he played fourteen years in this league. He is
in the Panthers Hall of Honor. He's an entrepreneur, he
is a Emmy winning broadcaster. Ladies and gentlemen, Moussa mohammeds, Yeah,
the pop Welcome to the pop man, No, you know
not any huh?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah, well, I mean I started with kind of doing
stuff with you back and don't know if you remember
that Chicago. We had a little messing up, playing around
with it, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I forgot about that.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
We forgot about that.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
You and I had a radio show right there in
Chicago at Hell's Hall. About that.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I did forget about that.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yeah yeah, so yeah, no, I mean, you know, we
cut our teeth early. I mean I spent a little
bit of time going over the NFL. You're doing games
and stuff like that. But yeah when when uh what
was that the my first year in Chicago? You know,
you and I had a radio show together, man, that
used to mess around a little bit there. Yeah, you
forget about that. My first bringing up old stuff I'm
bringing up old.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Yeah it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Remember, I just honestly I remember now, but.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Put his hands on me so much today he started
forgetting about all the all the other stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Hey, you just took me back with that.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
That moves you.
Speaker 5 (02:44):
Are one of four players to score a touchdown in
the Super Bowl with multiple teams.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Multiple teams?
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Yeah, do you know who the other three are?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Gosh, that's a good question. Now, I don't take a guess.
I'm gonna guess Andre Rising might have been one of them.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
No, no, he only scored with Green Bay.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Green Bay.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Good guest though.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
Okay, all right, the other one, come on, I want
you to get this one.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
In the Super Bowl with multiple teams.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Greatest of all time?
Speaker 1 (03:17):
J Rice? Yes, okay, Jerry Rice, Jerry Rice. Then I'll
give you a tight end, oh tight end Gronkowski.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
There we go.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
The other guys is a former teammate of yours and.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
The other guys a former teammate. Yes, I'm gonna say.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
There it is.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
It is.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
He guess with you, guys, right, he did? Yes, exactly bad.
If you give me a little.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
The horse, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah that makes sense.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
Now, yeah, it does all right, So, and back in
Super Bowl thirty eight for all of you that don't know,
that was when the Panthers played the New England Patriots.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Now you called an eighty five yard touchdown.
Speaker 5 (04:00):
I watched that in my college apartment, and uh, man,
that was awesome.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
I was cheering for you guys. I really was.
Speaker 5 (04:07):
Going for the Panthers big time that year. I just
really is a big fant of Steve Smith. Yourself, Jake
Delone seemed like just the guy that was just making
it happen.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
It was.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
You guys were a fun team to watch.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
I was, you know, you weren't Peanut, get out of here, Jake.
I was to take a sarcast.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
That wasn't fake. We're gonna get the raise occasion.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
We met in the hole. But but I had to
get on a line of screience with this guy, you know,
like he's grabbing the whole stuff, you know, fighting and
touching every day and practice, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5 (04:41):
Uh, after you call that ball, because it was I
think it was at the sixth minute mark, a little
bit a little bit around that mark.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
In the fourth quarter, you guys took the lead. Uh
in your mind?
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Is that over in my mind, Tom Brady wasn't absolutely
not no, because I don't know if you watched like
these Super Bowl throwbacks and all that kind of stuff
and these uh, you know, documentaries of the game. But
when I came to the sideline, I told Steve, I said,
it ain't over. I said, you know what the quarterback
is on the other side. I said, that's Tom Brady.
Bro this this game any close to being over with?
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:11):
And you know, I mean I think we had a
record how many points was scored in that Super Bowl
in the fourth quarter, maybe like almost thirty five forty points?
Speaker 4 (05:19):
That real back and forth.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah, it was real back and forth. But I mean
I knew that I was strapped up and ready to
go because we weren't even close going to be done
on that game.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
And do you know that is also I don't know
you may know this. I assume you know this longest
touchdown in passing.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
In Super Bowl history history?
Speaker 5 (05:35):
Yeah, record, yeah, still the record to the record five
yards old. To make sure all of our viewers know this,
because we're here to educate and entertain. Yeah, usually not
in that order.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
But yeah, So we had the luxury, we had the
privileged honor to play in Super Bowl forty one. Forty one,
that was your second loss, So it was my first one.
And then I went on to play in Super Bowl
fifty and I went on to lose that one. How
tough was it for you to lose that first.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
One, the first one? It was. It was very tough
the first one. It was very emotional, and you know,
we were the underdogs. What we had to overcome that
year by beating Dallas in the first round and then
(06:22):
going to Saint Louis, beating Kirk Warner Mike Marks the
greatest show on turf in Saint Louis and then walk
off style right, Smitty Smitty walking off.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
This is when you guys happened.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I was all in, yeah and that you know, and
then you know, you got Andy Reid, Donovan McNabb with
Philly and you need to win that championship game. And
I don't know if you guys know this story, but
like the night before the game that in that championship game,
one of these Philly fans set off the alarm, the
fire alarm in the hotel. So we were outside in
(06:56):
the cold right before the championship game. It was crazy,
but Philly, right. But anyway, so like that build up,
man was amazing, like for the game, and it was
a letdown. That was a big letdown. But I would
say this that the only people in the world that
expected us to win that game were probably the guys
(07:17):
in that locker room and maybe a few Carolina fans.
When we lost that in the Bears, we were supposed
to win that game.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Everybody thought, you guys, we were supposed.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
To win that game. And we had the talent and
everything else to win that game. So that one hurt.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
What do you what do you think kept us from
winning that game?
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Tell it loose, This is what we do.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
Andre Risen came in here and pointy things that everybody
I've come to hear, and pointy things that everybody who
fifty lost. Yeah, let's be real. What happened besides the ring?
Don't say that.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Well, you know, when you got Purple Rain, you got
Prince in his last so iconic, his last live performance,
you know, in the Stilettos. I don't know if y'all
watched that documentary, but you know, when you got Prince
coming out there seeing Purple Rain in the rain, you know,
in the stilettos. You know, that to me was probably
(08:09):
the only good part of the game, you know, as
I look back on it. But everything else, like, we
just didn't we didn't show up. I mean, you know,
it was a perfect week of weather, the whole week,
and we woke up that morning. I remember doing an
interview with Salmon Wilcox that morning. I woke up and
outside the hotel and it was like, guy's raining out here. So, oh, yeah,
it's gonna rain the whole day. It's like the whole day. Yeah,
(08:31):
it's gonna rain the whole day. And so yeah, that
was a factor. But we ain't show up as a
team when we're show up as a team. And then
we had I don't know, four or five turnovers in
the in the game. Can't do it, you know, we
had I mean I think a lot of people know this,
but we had a lot of controversies surrounding you know,
(08:52):
who was the right quarterback to play? Was it Brian Greasy?
Was it Rex? Rex was hurt? He was coming off
of this with Dad running back, said Benson got hurt.
You know. Thomas Jones was balling right, So we had
like all this balling right, So like there was all
this kind of political satire going on in the background,
and I thought that it just became a distraction.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
Instead, it's going out there and being the best team.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
That your main thing got to be the main thing,
you know, the main thing. If at any time it's
not that, then there's distractions, right, And it's not about
us putting our best foot forward to winning. It was
a whole lot of stuff that distracted us. And offensively,
there's no excuse when you got anar barian over there,
there was lighting stuff up, right, You got me over there.
(09:34):
You got Rashid Davis that was lighting stuff up. You
got two running backs. It don't matter who you get
a ball to. Just getting got Olden Cruits up front
this ball. You know, like we had this squad that
it didin't make no sense for that game. And then
let's not even talk about what our defense was doing, right,
and you know with Peanut, Nate Vash, Mike Brown, like
(09:54):
we had all these guys up front Atawailea Gula. I mean,
we just had this squad that was like amazing, right,
And let's not even bring up Lax and Lance Briggs
and you know, like Hunter Hill and Meyer. We had
all these guys that were just amazing guys, and the
main thing didn't stay the main thing, And that's what
(10:16):
it was. It was. You know, I can't necessarily say
that they were that spectacular. It was just that, you know, boom,
boom boom. We just kept shooting ourselves in the foot, right. Yeah,
so you know, I'm not gonna play any blame. I
take it myself because hell, I didn't have the greatest game,
you know, like I wasn't on the same page my
quarterback and I mean, it's just a lot of stuff
(10:38):
that happen in that game that the best team, I
think the best team that played the best that day one.
But I think the better team didn't show up to
play their best way.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
That's the best thing about football is the team that
plays the best that day wins. Yes, and then the
biggest games, you can't have four or five turnovers. I've
been in a game like that. You look back, you.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Liked, Yeah, I know, defense probably kept grabbing Hime and
like Peanut probably looking at us like come on, man,
y'all got his back on the field again.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Exactly what happens. We did that.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
But it's like low key, like you don't want to
make it so obvious, like god, dang, we just I
remember when I got that, uh, when I got the
force force fumble and then I recovered it, I was
like all right, and I remember going to the sideline
It's like all right, yeah, cool. And then something happened
was a turn off, and I was like.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
God damn, what is we doing again?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
You don't want to project that, and you don't want
your offense to see that, Like come on, y'all, y'all
letting us like you don't it's I think that's bad energy.
But at the same time, you're just like, come on, y'all,
like we were doing it, like I need y'all to
like help us out a little bit. Like that was
kind of one of the things in Chicago that you
are accustomed to. Defensively, I think the majority of my
(11:52):
time in Chicago we were squared away. It was always
the offense trying to get their footing and the defense.
For the most part, we had our footing, but it
was just like, yo, come on, get you, let's go.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
It was kind of the whole mantra too, because I
remember when I came and I was looking at Chicago.
I love you and I talked about like what it
was that we needed, what it was what could take
the Bears over the top. And you know, I was
going into a free agent year that year, and I'm
like I saw the pieces there, and it was a
little bit of offense, right, and a lot of it
(12:26):
was confidence more than it was talent, because the guys
in my room, they just didn't know how to believe
in themselves. Just engage anarbarian Rashid Davis. I mean, we
had guys there that were talented, but I don't know
if they believed in themself at fact. For Sheid was
on defense and we snatched him up and put it,
brought him in the offensive room.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
You know, was killing us on scouts, killing us.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Right, playing arena football or something like that.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Yeah, he was playing arena football, worked at Best Buys
from San Jose State.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Like a real life.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
He had a real life. I don't even know if
you want the Europe NF Europe, I don't think it.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
No, he was just like like Europe or something like that.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
But he got the thickest list. His essence is thrown.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Right there.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Oh my god, Rashik gonna coming.
Speaker 5 (13:14):
But I want to know about this though, Because you
guys were teammates me and you never crossed pass like that,
always against each other.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
What was it like as teammates?
Speaker 5 (13:22):
I know you guys had a radio show that Peanut
didn't remember until today. But what was that like lining
up against each other every day? Because Peanut, he said
you were his first like guy he had to like
really battle and have wars with that practice on a
consistent basis.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Right right, I don't know. I mean from my perspective.
I mean, like I I got challenged early in my
career by some pretty good corners, right, I mean, like
going up against Eric Davis every day. He faced Jerry Rice,
you know, on a regular basis when he was with
the forty nine ers, and I went into a veteran
locker room. So having guys like that, and then like
(13:57):
Doug Evanson where he came from Green Bay, so I
had these big corners I had to go up again.
So when I came to Chicago and I was like
going with a Peanut, I was like he was he
he was frustrating, Like the peanut punch got developed while
we were in practice, and it was frustrating because he
would come up after you make a good move on it,
knock the ball out right, and he'd be like, man,
(14:19):
it was just frustrating, but you know the old saying,
goals her iron shoppings iron right. And it made me
better because you got to remember that I was thirty one.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah, it was my third year, five right, five yeah, five, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I was thirty one years old. Five, So I was
brand new and you were brand new in the league.
And I was like, this young dude is like giving
me the flux every day. But I just was helding
for leather on fighting him every day.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
And because he was getting better though he keeps me young.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I was.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
It was like that.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
That was probably one of the hardest training camps I
went to because I had Martin book or my rookie year.
But Marty was like, come on, man, chill out, Like
you're going too hard.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
Marty.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Marty was that kind of guy, like you're practicing too hard,
Like what are you doing where I have the mentality
of iron Sharper's arm, Like no, man, Like I'm trying
to stay on this field, like I'm I'm not a
star yet, Like I'm trying to develop or be a person,
like in this league, I want to be feared. And
when we got Moose, I didn't know a lot about
(15:26):
him at the time. But then obviously training camp comes
and we are literally just.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Like every day battling. I ain't taking the day off like.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Like we were.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Like, we went at it, and that's how I like it.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I'm not brother in law nobody like, yeah, we went it.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Was just like this.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
We went back and forth, but it was all out
of love though, Like it was like I can honestly say,
like you truly you were the first receiver like to
really get me better early in my career. You got
like the early the young dumb peanut who was just
pure athleticism. No, I wasn't smart. I didn't really know
the game.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
I just was playing.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I was just playing. I was out there like a
dumb ass. I'm just playing, just pure athleticism. And you
kind of taught me how to you know, like, Okay,
maybe I need to not stack him this way like
you you kind of helped me develop my game.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Man.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Now we had our battles and we went to work,
which was beautiful because I mean, if you like with
Penda how he's describing it, I started off my career
that way. I mean, I had this receiving coach god
rest is soul, Richard Williamson, And I'm glad I had
him early on because he coached under Bear Bryant. He
played for Bear Bryant, and you know Joe Namath was
(16:42):
his quarterback back in the day. You know what I'm saying.
So it's like this junction boy mentality, right, Dude, I
played like three years before he even told me good job.
I was in the Pro Bowl before he told me
I had a good season, right, And in the year
in the age where you got like Jerry Rice, and
you got Shannon Sharp or Sterling Sharp, right, and you
got I mean you name it. I mean there was
(17:04):
Chris Carter's and all these different guys. Like if you've
been making a Pro Bowl with them, guys, you better
go to work every day. And so like having that
kind of mentality starting out in the league, that's what
shaped my work habits. So every day I came to practice,
I mean, p know, you know I caught balls before practice. Yeah,
after practice, I went and got some guys and brought
them with me. Put Bernard in front of that jug machine.
(17:27):
Put justin Gage in front of that jumg. Everybody right,
like it's a standard, and so that's what I thought,
like it was always supposed to be. Like so when
you and I were fighting every day, I was like, Oh,
this shit is normal for me. This is normal for me.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
It wasn't for me because my first years I didn't
I didn't have like I wanted that. I was trying
to do that, but I didn't have that that veteran
receiver who was it was just complaining like.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Oh, you're going too hard, You're practicing too much.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
So I'm like, bro, I'm trying to get right, like
I'm I'm trying to be great in this league lane,
trying to just fly another radar.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
And will be right back talking about guys bringing guys
with you.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
Steve Smith said there is no Steve Smith without Moss
and Muhammad.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
But one, how does that make you.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
Feel when you hear that, and for such a great
player as Smitty is that he said, he's I'm nothing
without this man.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
I you know, I don't know invest in people. Man.
This kind of my thing was like I loved my brothers,
and even if they were more successful than me, I
still love my brothers because you know, it's just kind
of who I was, and and I got to this
point in my career where after three or four years
(18:41):
of ups and downs, and I want to win, Like
I don't love anything more than winning, right, Or should
I say I hate to lose more than I love
to win. But I really hate to lose. But I
don't hearing that from Smitty man, because it was a
long time before we could even say that to each other,
because it was this competitive spirit amongst us, but it
(19:03):
was still a route. It was still about like competing
for the sake of the same common goal, but who's
gonna get the most glory and all that kind of
stuff was also a competition, correct. But I think I did,
in a sense brought him with me because I didn't
let him take a day off either, you know. And
I knew that Smitty, I mean the dude run four
(19:25):
two four three, right. He his cast probably wider than
this table right here, right. But I knew that in
order for us to be great, he had to play
great every day, and so I challenged him to be that.
In the days he wanted to take off, I went harder,
which made him look a bat it, so he got
to go harder than I'm going and if I'm going hard,
you going hard and everybody going hard. So it's that's
(19:46):
just the that's the bar that we set was that
we're gonna were just gonna go hard. And when we
got to the games, the games were easy. It was
like almost like I became the voice of reason. I
used to be the attitude person on the team, like
going there, smack safeties, you know, like you know you've
met the whole mini on the occasion, right, I wasn't
(20:08):
gonna slow down.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
You better know, Yeah, you better know about moose out.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
There, right, But some of those attitude issues I had
to like calm steve down because when I get him
hyped up, like he don't know how to slow down,
Like I'm like, man, I better chill out because.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
I'm he gonna go over there.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, he going over the edge, right, and he's gonna
mess around and you know, like get kicked out a
game or something. But it was you know, it was
a it was a It was a really beautiful brotherhood.
And I think we celebrate the connections that we made
both from a competitive spirit and we can appreciate a
whole lot more like what we both got out of
it because he challenged me too, and I learned from
him too, Like let's not get him mistaken, right, like
(20:46):
Smitty took it, took it and said okay, and then
took it to a whole other level. Right, And even
in broadcasting, right, I mean, I gave up TV and broadcasting.
I'm just like focused on a lot of other things
right now. But he's great at that too, right, And
challenged him on a lot of different things. And so
there's a lot there that to the point, iron sharpens iron, right,
(21:09):
So there's a level of admiration, there's a level of
what I would say is humility, and I appreciate him
saying those things. I wouldn't expect it out of them.
I never expected out of them. And I never come
out there and say, oh, I'm the reason he's this,
And like jay Z say when they say, oh I
(21:34):
can I'm the reason jay Z is successful. Jay Z said, well,
if you may, hold will make another hole and you
can't make another Steve Smith. And I didn't make Steve Smith. Right.
I might have challenged him, but I'm honored to be
a part of his legacy. And I'm honored to be
a part of your legacy, right, And I'm honored to
be a part of any of my teammates that I
(21:55):
played with success because that's who I am fundamentally.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
I got I got a question for you. The title captain,
it means something, especially when you're your peers, your teammates,
they vote that or they vote you with that that title.
You've been on two teams and uh, you've been a captain.
You've been voted captain on both teams. How does that
make you feel honored?
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Man? I mean when you captain Pro Bowl? You know,
those are votes that your peers, your opponents, those votes
mean something special to me. They do, right, Yeah, I
mean because we all made money, we all did well
with that. But then there's like this whole other fundamental
part of like building up people, right, and those relationships
that you build while you're in the game are far
(22:42):
more important. It lasts longer than anything else. Right, So
those things are those things are special to me. And yeah,
I mean being a team captain, voted amongst your peers
and embracing it. And I'll tell you where I got
that from, because I wasn't that way early on in
my my life. Right about was it my third year
(23:05):
in the league, Reggie White came on our team, right,
and Reggie he embodies what it means to be a
captain and a leader.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Yeah right.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
I don't know if any of y'all ever got a
chance to never lead around, but Reggie White in the
locker room was amazing. And he's the one to meet
that came to me and was like, man, you're great
and all these You're gonna be real good in your career.
I was like my third year, right before I made
my first Pro Bowl, and he was like, you got
to take some guys with you. He was like, you're
(23:37):
doing all this stuff you're doing. I'm watching you, young guy,
because you stay after practice, you come before practice, You're
doing all this stuff. You get all these work habits,
you stay in the film room, take some guys with you,
and we're gonna it's gonna make the team better. And
that's where I kind of like shifted my whole career
around being unselfish and building up other people around me,
(24:01):
you know what I mean. And that's that's when I
started to become a captain of the team, like after
my fourth year in the league and then beyond was
about building.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Up men do you remember when you were the captain
in Chicago. Funny story. We were playing baseball in our
locker room, and it's all the captains. It's t Jones,
it's you, it's Olan, Mike Brown. So they decided to
play some baseball. We got like this makeshift bat with
like a little hook in it. Right, So we're getting
(24:30):
ready to go to a meeting and we had a
little We had a towel and you wrapped it up
with some tape. Somebody throws a pitch. I don't know
who was batting. Somebody swung dirty cloth bands with the basis. Yeah,
dirty close bands were the basis. So whoever pitches someone
bad at whatever they swing it, they hit it, make
full contact. The damn hook piece flies off the bat
(24:55):
and goes into Fred Miller's leg. It flew right into
his leg in there like in there. It's so he
got to get stitches.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
It's just like Thursday or Friday.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Kids is playing and got wild.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Somebody next thing, you know, they gotta go see lovey Well,
and I'm only I'm telling it. I should let you
tell the story. But the way Mike Brown told he
was like, so, guys, where are the captains what happened?
And then somebody was like, all the captains were there,
we were playing. All the captains was playing It's our fault.
(25:38):
But that was oh yeah, that was that was Oh man,
I'll never forget that story where the captains that the captains.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Was playing coach first base coach.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Oh my god, I don't. I've never been in the
Saints locker room. I ain't been in the locker room
or Michigan State. But I'd be hard pressed to tell
you that Chicago back in the five oh six, o seven,
I'd be willing to bet that locker room games, the
games that we played in our locker rooms are up here.
(26:15):
It's we set a.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Game, shooting game, four square.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
The soccer game we used to play, the voluin or whatever.
Oh my yeah, we we had some games.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
We had a game today.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
The whole culture of the whole.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Box them up box.
Speaker 5 (26:33):
I think that's that's the one thing that a lot
of people don't give. They see the results on Sundays, yeah,
but it's all those little things in the camaraderie, the companionship,
the togetherness that you build from Monday to.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
Saturday is what allows you to be great on Saturday.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
On Sundays, it's like the willingness to go a little
bit more for that guy because of the hit that
he had on Wednesday in the locker room we're playing baseball.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Right Like.
Speaker 5 (26:59):
Those are the things that I don't think a lot
of people get. And it's also the little things like
what you said, Reggie White.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
I thought that was beautiful.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
Yeah, because we know of Reggie White, his spirit, the
person he was, but for him to see you as
a young player, be like, hey, you need to bring
somebody which spoke like that. Those things you never know
who that veteran guy is, or those little words that's
gonna stick with somebody forever. And it's like, man, like
(27:25):
the fact that Reggie even said something to me, yeah
means gold.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
I remember I.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
Covered Steve Smith in the back line of an zone
my rookie year before I tore my ACL Week two
playing in Carolina.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
I don't even know.
Speaker 5 (27:36):
I think you guys won the game. I don't even remember,
but I covered him. He said, hey, man, i've been
watching you on film.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
You're gonna be a good player.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
For him to say that to me when I told
you I was a fan of you guys since when
you guys went to Super Bowl and I didn't even.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
Think he knew who I was.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
But those little things like that checking the box in
your memory.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
You never let it go.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
So why you hit him in the back, man?
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Because I didn't run over there for.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
I remember that.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
But it made the better though it did. It did.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
There was something about that I was his smitty and then.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
It was.
Speaker 5 (28:24):
But those things are why they remember me, and I'm
cool with that.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
We're going to take a short break and we'll be
back in a minute.
Speaker 5 (28:33):
What I want to get to you about is post career.
Number one, what was that transition like for you? Because
that's what we always like to ask everybody about that.
And then also number two, how did you get into
private equity?
Speaker 4 (28:47):
I know you went to uh the.
Speaker 5 (28:48):
Business school, that Wharton business school that you pen but
kind of lead us into that.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Tell us that story, man, that's interesting. So the transition
was I think I was ready. You know, I came
back to Carolina to play thirteen and fourteen years I
was thirty seven years old. I had a young family
at the time, you know, my kids were like going
into high school at that time, and I was ready
(29:14):
to just I wasn't ready to keep moving around and going.
And I had this opportunity that I had been developing
around the private equity sector. And you know, up until
that point, I had some experiences investing capital, had been
involved in some real estate and some operating companies as
a passive investors at LP, So I got to sit
(29:36):
in the backseat and just kind of understand and learn.
And when I came back from Chicago back to Carolina,
I approached Jerry Richardson, who was the owner of the
Panthers at the time, and I painted this vision for
him of what I wanted to build. And I wanted
to have this opportunity to invest capital in a larger
(29:58):
platform and owned some operating companies, built some businesses, and
create some generational wealth. And so he introduced me, well,
actually he brought in Hugh McCall, who was called and Charlotte.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
He was a former chairman of Bank of America. And
there was a gentleman that worked for mister McCall. His
name is Dennis Akaensu, and Dennis and I met and
over the next two years we started developing a plan
for UH, this private equity firm, and so we started
(30:33):
meeting with some people. It's another guy named Ray Growth
who's a partner of mine. He started the investment banking
division four what's now Wells Fargo, but at the time
it was First Union became Wakovia and Ray had a
law degree. He practiced law with Crevaswayne and Moore and
got into transactions with First Boston. It was acquired by
(30:54):
Credit Swiss, and so we all came together and really
started thinking about raising capital and buying some operating companies.
And so, you know, after playing for a couple of
years with the Carolina Panthers, I said, you know, it's
time to go try something else, to do something else,
be available for my family, and do some other things
(31:15):
that I think, you know, challenged me a little bit, right,
challenged me, intellectually, challenged me in a lot of different ways.
And so I decided to leave playing ball and start
this private equity fund. And so, you know, we raised
some capital and then we're off to the races.
Speaker 5 (31:32):
So well, you the exact example that everybody says, like,
start planning for your career after it's like while you're
in your career.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Yeah, but you did it right. Well, thank you. I
appreciate that, but you know it was organic. I mean
it happened. You know, I was early in my career.
I was exposed at private equity. Actually it was more
venture capital. I just put a little bit of money
in with Ronnie Lott and Joe Montana and Harris Bartan.
They approached me when they were starting Champion Venure. So
(32:01):
you know, I like golf, so it got me a
chance to go out to Pebble Beach and play golf.
But you know that exposure to these Fortune five hundred
companies and Deutsche Bank and you know, Sequoia Capital and
all these different platforms started to sort of shape my
thoughts around investing. And then I was able to, you know,
(32:24):
kind of get involved in some other operating companies and
things like that. So I had this kind of mix
of experience as an LP and also invest in capital.
And then I did some stuff around real estate as well,
so I could really start to shape my mind around
what I wanted to do. And if you play for
thirteen or fourteen years, you have a luxury of kind
of crafting and extra strategy, right, And you know, it's
(32:48):
a luxury that a lot of us don't have because
we don't get a chance to play that long and
the rug gets pulled from underneath our feet. But you know,
I've always been a guy that challenged myself both in
the lectury. I'm an avid reader. You know, Peanut probably
tell you that I used to be sticking on the
back of the bus with Dan Brown books and all
other kind of stuff. So you know, I've always been
a person that sort of challenged myself in different ways.
(33:10):
And when I got back to the Carolinas, I had
two years and I said, you know, I don't want
to be beholden to this game anymore. And after, you know,
I had a good my fourteen year, I had eight
hundred something yards and had a good I mean, it
was just time for me. I thought it was time
for me to pursue some other interest. So that's kind
of my story of how I decided just to cut
(33:34):
it off and go in a different direction.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
So all your kids are grown, and yeah, they're all
out the house. You're an empty nester, empty nestor man.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
My oldest is in law school at Syracuse. My second
oldest graduated from culinary school, and there's a chef and
does her own She has like a healthcare beauty line. Yeah,
of products. My third oldest is in medical school up
in Boston. My two boys are undergrad in the middle,
(34:03):
and my baby girl, she runs the whole show man.
She's twenty years old. She works for this insurance company
and she's doing quite well. So they're all grown and
gone and me and a wife are free to move
about the country. Man.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
So yeah, so I think I know the answer. But
what what's bringing you happiness right now?
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Man? Just watching watching them grow? Yeah, I'm really into
my kids and into my wife and uh so I'm
into my family. I enjoy fishing a lot, man. I'm like,
you know, I got a couple of ponds on my place,
so I like enjoy fishing, still enjoy reading. Yeah, but
(34:48):
you know, just watching the kids kind of be successful. Man,
that's I I'm like, really, really really getting into that.
And I started to get saw a peanut. Like back
in the day, you know, I was a dude. So
like I actually cry and stuff that makes me happy.
Now it's crazy, Like I it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
I brag about it all the time.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
I'm like, man, my budding's going on. Like I find
myself crying because I'm happy sometimes, like what the heck
is going on with me? Man? Like this this thing
is crazy, right, But like my oldest is really doing
well in law school with Syracuse, right and calls me
and tells me about you know, some of the stuff
that's taking place and stuff they're studying, and it's just beautiful,
(35:33):
Like I love it, right, And then you know, I
got a son. I got two boys that are My
younger son runs track and he just broke the school
record in the fifteen hundred. He ran in three forty
one in the fifteen hundred. So like I got emotional
about that because they posted this thing on Instagram that
he broke the school record in the fifteen hundred. And
(35:56):
then I got another boy. Now he's like, you know,
playing college football and having success there. So like watching
the kids be successful, man, it's like I find so
much joy in that.
Speaker 5 (36:08):
Well, talking about that number one, I see moose moose
the second a lot because I heard the third. Sorry,
I see him a lot covering the SEC and he's
at text A and M. The one handed catch you
had his freshman year was amazing. But talking about kids
and being proud of them, I'd be remorse if I
(36:29):
didn't bring this up. And that is the fact. How
often Nick Saban uses you as an example to everybody
else that always tries to say.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Everybody, I meant yes, describe what it was.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Right.
Speaker 5 (36:46):
No, No, I didn't. And I never played for Nick.
He came to Alabama at the year after I left. Okay,
So but he uses you as a great example. So
the media when some some player gets in trouble, and
he's always the first to say, well, I know the
media wants me to run the kid off, throw the
kid off the team, whatever, whatever, And I refuse to
(37:07):
do that. I believe in second chances. These young men
make mistakes and it's okay, and so I'll reprimand him
the way I'm going to do it. But he said,
the best example is you that you have got in
trouble on the Michigan State and everybody wanted me to
get rid of the kid. And he's like, if you
want the kid on the street, or is he better
on this field getting better in this locker room and
where we can you know he's going to grow and
(37:29):
he's gonna make mistakes, but he's going to be better
if we keep him. And he's like, the man grew
up he's owning her own company. He's got a kid
at Princeton, he's got a kid doing this, he's got
a kid, all these other things. The man's more successful
than anything else. And you guys want me to get
rid of him. And so he takes pride in an
example of you. And so when you hear that and
you know these things, what does that do for you?
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Like I said, that makes me appreciative, right, because like
he invested in me. Yes, he believed in me. So
I'm trying to make him look good. Right. I think
it's and it's a way to show appreciation and thanks too, right,
And I am thankful that Nick believed in me. And
(38:15):
I think he promotes this example because it's an example
that actually played out the right way. That I think
the stories that he loves to happen for kids, right.
And the reality is that we probably don't have enough
good examples in our communities, right, growing up of these
situations where guys are come from these in battle, you know,
(38:38):
Detroit is like home for me. I don't know if
you know that, but like I was born in Lands
in Michigan, but my parents are from Detroit. So my
dad went to Northwestern. My mom went to Southwestern Detroit
right here, So I spent a lot of time in
this city. And matter of fact, my old man is
a police officer here in Detroit. He's seventy four years old,
and he's out here right now at the super Bowl
(39:01):
on patrol, on patrol right now, working as a police
officer right now. The reason I say all that is
because we don't have a lot of good examples in
these communities, but we have these in battled communities, and
then anytime somebody gets in trouble, it's like throw them
to the wayside, right, And I think I think Nick,
(39:21):
even if the second chances don't work, he believes in
the best in people. Yeah, and you should, right to
a certain degree. The people who take those examples, excuse me,
those second chances, and they do something real with it. Yeah,
I think he wants to use that as an example,
(39:43):
and rightfully so. And I feel indebted in a way, right.
But I'm also appreciative of the second chance because it
was a mistake, right, and people make those in life,
So you know, what you do with your opportunities are important, right,
And so I got real serious about life after that. Yeah,
So and and then just grew as a purse continued
(40:06):
to grow every day. Man, you learn something from you know,
you can learn something from people every days. Homeless person
on the street can teach you something, right, So it
doesn't matter who it is, man, you can learn something
from anybody anytime if you're willing and you're open to it.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
So what was your welcome to the NFL moment?
Speaker 5 (40:24):
Yeah, I mean you came here the second year of
Panthers existence, Yeah, second round.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
My welcome to the NFL moment was training camp my freshman,
my rookie said, freshman, my rookie year. There was this
guy he wore number twenty seven. You remember back in
the day I did, probably still do. Hold on, I'm
(40:51):
gonna tell you the story. But you remember, back in
the day, you spend a week in training camp, right,
and the drills were live practices, alive, all this stuff. Right.
So we go out to Denver and we got training
camp in the mile High was you know, all the
elements and everything. But there was this guy would I
think it's just twenty seven. His name was Steve Atwater.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
Oh oh that twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Yeah, And we had live drills and I remember it was.
It was a live team drill and they were in
corters coverage and I was outside and I had to
run a slant rock and I can hear him calling
it out lance slants, lands land slant corners, backing up
and I could see him, you know, coming down, looking
(41:37):
down in the and all of a sudden, you know,
I'm fearless, right, I'm gonna run this slant. So so
after I wake up looking up and you know, I
got Steve Atwater like this all of me like, because
he just leveled me. Right, So you know what I
had to do wrong? I got up and start a fight, bro.
Speaker 6 (41:57):
You know, he was like I got to fight you, right,
because after you did knock me silly, and I'm sitting
there and you know, as I'm coming to.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
I'm like here this dude over me like barking, right,
I gotta fight. I gotta fight. So I got up
and I started a nice little you know, training camp,
bra the news and the whole thing. Man, Yeah, that.
Speaker 4 (42:26):
Was bigger than you too.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
Everybody fights.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
He's taller than me. That is so big taller than me. Yeah,
he brought that heat, man, and he was like, uh,
like a coil. He was tall, but he could. He
was linky like a basketball player. He can coil up
like this and it just boom and just explode on
you just knock you in the next week, Right, And
that joker hit me so hard. He hit me so hard.
(42:51):
I was just and and I was out for a second,
you know how you just laying there for a second.
But you know back then they just got your bell run. Yeah,
and I could. I can just hear him over the
top me like, and I'm just looking. By the time
I came to, I could see his jersey and I
could see his legs over the top of me.
Speaker 4 (43:05):
Right.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
It was time to fight, That's all I know. I was, Yeah,
it was it was time to fight.
Speaker 4 (43:09):
It to fight.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
I want to know about the time you put the
word decoy on your jersey when you when when you.
Speaker 4 (43:23):
One that's fighting.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
What's what's the story behind that?
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Yeah? That was like what my third year in the league.
Speaker 4 (43:32):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
He was a young one.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, I was young and feisty, man, you know, but
we we got George Seaffert as a as a head coach,
and I had been balling. Man, I was like, I
mean at that year, I wound up I think leading
the NFL and catches. I had like one hundred something
catches that year. But about midway through the season, Seafford
(43:56):
comes to me. He's like, you know, you're drawing a
lot of double coverage. I'm like and and and he's like, well,
you know, this week, you know, I think you know,
we just want you to kind of be a decoy
because you know you're doing these double coverages. We can
start leaking the tight ends behind you and this, this,
this and the other. And I'm looking at him like,
who says that to a dude who's in the middle
(44:18):
of a season balling like killing me right? I said,
so you let me get this right, Coach, you want
me to be a decoy? He was like, yeah, you know, decoy.
Speaker 4 (44:31):
You know, dress it up by shivering your shoulders.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Decoy.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
So so I was like, okay, well I'll be decoy
this week. And I wrote decoy on the back of
my jersey, went out to practice with I taped it
right nuts and they were like, what are you doing
with that on your jersey? Coach told me I was
decoy this week. So that's what I am. Decoy.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
Such a jerk.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
It was, man, it was, it was. It was shallow, man,
I was you know, I was fight it was you know,
it was it was I was acting out and I
was you know, my pride was a little hurt.
Speaker 4 (45:04):
So what did you learn from that? Were you right?
Speaker 1 (45:11):
You know, what did you learn from that in the moment,
Probably not a lot other than you know, I was
probably more stubborn than I should have been. I was
being selfish, you know, I shouldn't have been that way.
As I look back on it now, you know, we
do have these things, even though we call ourselves mature,
(45:31):
but it's you know, there's a learning process along the way, right,
It's also going to be maybe a setback here and there.
So I did kind of learn that. Man. It was
probably not the best decision, right, I know, I probably
didn't have the best but you know, like I said, man,
it was one of these things where I don't think
(45:55):
either George Seaffert or I don't think we either one
of us made good decisions there. Because there's a way
to either handle that, even as a head coach with
your top players, where you donna go to them and
tell them that they're gonna be a decoy. Yeah, right,
So I didn't handle it that well though, and I
could have handled it better. I think that's the takeaway.
Speaker 5 (46:13):
Yeah, man, we appreciate you coming on the podcast. Man,
you gotta let me know your the question. Man, we
asked everybody this. It can't let you out without that though.
Who is on Mussim Muhammad's Mount Rushmore of influence football coaching, family,
Like who's influenced you the most?
Speaker 4 (46:35):
You get four to be who you are? Right now?
Speaker 1 (46:39):
That's good. I would say it's a good question. It's
a good question never asked.
Speaker 3 (46:48):
I won't if I never heard that one.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
I'm gonna start off with Jesus first, all right, I'm
gonna start off with faith, right, Hey, Zeus, I like it. Yeah,
in terms of just the game itself, I'm gonna say
Richard Williamson man my first position coach.
Speaker 4 (47:13):
Man, like the one that didn't tell you good job, to.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
The one I hated until I love until I loved him.
You know what I'm saying. Yeah, I spoke at his funeral, right,
but I also like punched him in the chest after
you had heart surgery, you know what I'm saying. Like
I was like this, like we had this love hate relationship, right. Uh.
(47:39):
Of influence right, I would say, Kyle Lee. For people,
all I get is four huh m hmm.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
I mean we know there's a lot more, but we
just gotta you can bunch it up. Yeah, we ain't
got that much tape, man.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
I know, right. I would definitely say my uh my
father in law. Man. He was a guy, Bob Holtz Man.
He was a valedictorian of his Bible school, married a
black woman in the sixties and went through a whole
lot or seventies, kicked out of school as a valedictorian,
(48:21):
and he's still married over forty years, I guess for
almost fifty years. His library is ridiculous. The books he
has is unmatched. There's no way you can even And
(48:42):
then Lee, I only give four. So I would say
those three pretty impactful. And then I would say, Lee,
this is kind of random, man, but probably Brah Obama,
you know really, yeah, why Brah? The power and influence
(49:09):
and leadership man and poise under pressure, being able to
handle so much with the weight on your shoulder and
having that composure unmatched, Right, I agree, So I will
(49:30):
start with them for but.
Speaker 4 (49:32):
I'm cool with that. I like it.
Speaker 5 (49:34):
Your word, your your your mount Rushmore has been accepted,
and we'll put it out accepted.
Speaker 3 (49:40):
We've never rejected.
Speaker 4 (49:42):
That's why I said it's been accepted.
Speaker 5 (49:45):
Does he doesn't need to know you've never rejected anybody
accept it?
Speaker 1 (49:49):
Okay, I don't know. I guess that's my randomness, but
you know, like.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
I will accept it.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Yeah whatever. Yeah, but that's off the top of my head.
That would be the That would be the four right there,
for you know.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
I like the four good ones.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
Yeah, it would be my four. Just to thinking of it.
Right now.
Speaker 3 (50:06):
We appreciate you again. Have you got anything else before
I say I appreciate you for you cut me off
for like the fifth time, the fifth time.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
Let me just say this too before y'all we wrap
to show up.
Speaker 4 (50:14):
Man.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
I love y'all platform too. Man. I think y'all do
an amazing job. Man, you know, thank you. Yeah. I
don't know what they call either. Trop I watch from
a distance, right, and I just admire guys who are
good at what they do, take it serious and have
you know, a certain level of professionalism, and so I
really appreciate what you guys bring in this forum and
(50:35):
the exposure to topics y'all covering what y'all do. Man,
it's because there's a whole lot of media out there
that I don't really think is the right kind of
influence on people. But I like what y'all doing.
Speaker 4 (50:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 5 (50:51):
I'm trying to get that emmy, like you, Broat, I
put that on my vision board.
Speaker 4 (50:55):
Is it one of my goals?
Speaker 3 (50:57):
And you can't get it with sec nation. You got
to get it with us.
Speaker 4 (51:00):
Well, I'm cool. I don't care how I get it.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
You gotta get it with us.
Speaker 5 (51:03):
I don't care whose names on it. You know you
got to. I got to be on it with you. You
take take me with you, take somebody with you, Take me.
Speaker 6 (51:11):
With you, take me with you.
Speaker 4 (51:15):
Take me with you.
Speaker 3 (51:16):
Take me and Thomas we got you dog, and I see,
take us all with you.
Speaker 4 (51:22):
Hey, all right, we're gonna get out of here on that. Man.
Appreciate that, Moose Man number love.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
Man.
Speaker 5 (51:27):
You know how much you mean to us individually, to
the city, your family. I'm so proud and happy for
you for real. There it is that he knows what
up though. Okay, that's that's all you all right, man,
(51:48):
We don't get you out of here. Man, Thank you
for all our listeners and viewers always out there tuning in,
give us that five star rating, leave us a review, leave.
Speaker 4 (51:55):
A couple of comments, ask the questions we love to love.
Get back up, man. We will continue keep this thing going.
Speaker 5 (52:01):
Our beautiful guest Musy and Muhammad today and wherever you
pick up your podcast with its iHeartRadio app or the
Apple podcasts, please continue to tell a friend to tell
a friend, to tell a friend. We're doing big things,
shining on big lights, big lights on all of our
great NFL legends man, and getting to know so many
more of our heroes that we got to watch, play
alongside and be a part of your lives.
Speaker 4 (52:22):
So step one, man.
Speaker 3 (52:23):
This podcast only work when y'all listen, So we preachate
y'all listening and tuning in on Peanut Moose, That's wrong,
NFL Player second X podcast. We out
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