September 29, 2023 • 26 mins
Hero Gregg Rosenthal is joined by SB Nation Football Writer JP Acosta to recap Week 4's Thursday night football clash between NFC North rivals the Green Bay Packers and the Detroit Lions . We break down the Lions dominant performance on both sides of the ball and touch on what went wrong for the Packers.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thirty five yards GoF deep again wide open, making the
grab and taking it and.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Is shak Brown second in goal.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Id's gonna keep it himself touchdown Green Bay.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Here it is again. You heard that talking about it.
Here's the foul on Walker, but you talk about a
late flag.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Thirty four to twenty. The Lions owned the NFC North
Detroit takes care of business in Lambeau, their fourth straight
win against Attackers, the second straight time they put a
herd on him on national television. These are new times
and you can tell that a Packers fan, big Funk
(00:51):
Randy Javez put that highlight package together because he included
a Packers' penalty to finish it. That led to the
game ceiling touchdown by David Montgomery, his third of the night.
I'm Greg Rosenthal talking TNF with a new friend of
the pod. Very excited to welcome JP Acosta to the show.
(01:13):
He does great workover at sp Nation.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Jp.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
We got a pretty gun one for you for your
first time on the Round the NFL Podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Welcome, thanks for having me. This is a fun one
because this is right up my alley. This is this
is a Lions offensive line run run the rock, established
that defensive lines playing great. This is right up my alley.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Wow, what you're at, You're like, you're at dight, Dan Campbell,
tough guy. I want to run the ball. How many
times did he do it tonight? Forty three times? And
just dominate the line of scrimmage. That's your game.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
That's right, that's right. Football is one and lost on
the line of scrimmage, and Dan Campbell made sure to
put an emphasis on that going into his game.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
You're absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Although I'm gonna start on the defensive side, and they
won it up front there too. We can go in
a lot of directions here, and we will. We're gonna
go over this game. It was a lot of fun
if you're like me and have been loving this Lion's
rise over the last two seasons. But I think we
got to start with the first twenty two plays that
(02:19):
the Packers ran on offense, which got us almost a halftime.
Those twenty two plays, JP gained one get into negative yard.
They did not gain a yard in their first twenty
two plays. At that point in the game, it was
twenty seven to three. The game was all but over.
(02:42):
The Packers did what they've been doing the last couple
weeks made a little interesting in the second half, But
tell me from your advantage point what you saw what
they did in that first half defensively, that just made
the Packers look like they didn't even belong on the
field with Detroit.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
It was so interesting just for a Packers offensive line
that did not allow a lot of pressure through the
first few games this season just looked completely overwhelmed against
a Detroit Lions front that we remember a couple of
weeks ago did not look that great against the Seattle Seahawks,
Like this is a this is the second week out
(03:21):
of two weeks set. The Lions have looked really good
up front, and I think it kind of has to
do with the development and the growth of the young
guys they have on that side of the ball. We
all know about Aiden Hutchinson, the way that he's playing
to start the season. One of the things I've enjoyed
that they're doing is moving him inside. You just be
basically match up hunt find the best way to get
(03:41):
your guys isowed on their weakest links, and that's something
that the Lions are doing right now. Ali McNeil is
playing fantastic football to start the season at defensive tackle.
But it's not even those guys. You're getting good play
from Benito Jones, Isaiah Bugs doing really good things in
the run game. So basically you've taken the Packers entire
outside zone boot action. You negated that because they cannot
(04:05):
run the ball. So you're forcing Jordan Love to essentially
become a primary drop back passer, forcing him to make
the throws. And then on the back end, you know,
those guys are playing really well. I think that Jordan
Love sailed a few passes early. It's still very clear
that he still needs time to actually like play the games,
(04:27):
to get more, get his feet wet a little more.
But it's really just the domination up front. It's been
a long time since I've seen the Packers look so
overwhelmed up front, especially by a Detroit Lions football team.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
I couldn't agree more because you're right, even in this
four game windustry, it's the Packers offensive line has mostly
been a mainstay. Tonight, they were without back to Ari again.
He was placed on injured reserve actually since we last
taped a podcast, so that means he's he's kinda miss
at least a few more games. That's a big, big
letdown for them and raises a whole lot of questions
(05:06):
about his contract and all this other stuff we don't
need to get into. They're also without el Elton Jenkins
and you mentioned it, and this is why I wanted
you on JP goes deep, check out it, check them
out on X on Twitter, and he's breaking down a
Lee McNeil earlier this week, who is coming off a
big time game and he's just thrown out Bugs and
I'll throw out you know, Kaminsky had a nice stop
(05:27):
on that two point conversion and they're winning their on
one match with Charles Harris had to play. I mean
they Isaiah Bugs wasn't even active a couple of weeks ago.
So that's the depth that I think Campbell and Brad
Holmes when they're putting this team together, really wanted. And
what's impressed me in this three and one start, and
I do want to stay on the defense for now,
(05:48):
is they've had injuries. They've had injuries on both sides,
but they've especially had injuries on defense, and they've kind
of built a roster that can withstand it. And they
had one bad week really against Seattle where they got
it handed to them for the most part defensively, but
other than that, man, this is this is a different defense.
Those guys are tough upfront. They're gonna make it very
(06:10):
tough to run the ball. And they barely even tried
with with Aaron Jones and aj Dillon and by the
time they tried, the game was essentially over. And they've
been able to withstand injuries on the back end. And
that's impressive. That that's team building and that's depth because
they don't really have superstars.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
They just have good players.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Like Derek Barnes has been flashing to me all season
like he's not a guy I ever really paid that
much attention to, but he's been a great run stopper.
And just say each spot, it's like they have guys
that make sense exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
It's more they're more they're not individual stars like you said,
but they're much more than the some they're they're basically
they work as a team. You know, I think the
team defense up front has been so played so well.
I know it's against Atlanta. The Atlanta game was really
a huge test for them going into this game because
(07:01):
both these teams want to run the ball, they want
to be physical, with you up front, and the Lions
basically just lined up and kick their butts the entire game.
It was it was wild to see this team just
essentially go in and be like, Yeah, we're just gonna
We're gonna line up and you're not gonna be able
to block us. And like you said, Derek Barnes playing
(07:22):
great football. I think Jack Campbell has had really nice
moments in the run and pass game. They lined them
up on the edge on early downs because you know,
with James Houston out for a long time with an
ankle injury, they lined Jack Campbell up down on the
edge on early downs, so I thought was kind of interesting.
They did it a little bit last week. I think
it's kind of due to their lack of depth out
(07:44):
on the edge, but I was like, okay, I'll put
a little pin in that. You know. Maybe maybe I
mean Jack Campbell's like six five, two forty, maybe this
will be a thing that they just keep doing. But
they're working with the pieces that they have and they're
turning it into a machine. Though. Front.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
It's like what you want out of team building because
they stuck with Aaron Glenn, who's always thought to be
a really promising defensive coordinator, a guy they really believed
in in the results because of the roster and because
they were putting it together. Weren't really there the first
couple of years, and you're seeing it to come together.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So I love when that happens.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
This is year three of their program and they've pretty
much done it, and yeah, it's funny. Actually, remember when
they call I remember the call where they call Campbell
when he was drafted. They actually ask him like if
he would ever want to line up as you know,
you want to line up on the edge a little bit.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
You think you can do that, And he said, I'll
do whatever.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
So they're putting into motion, they get creative, and I
guess let's slip it to the Packers offense.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Love.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
His experience, to me, is a little bit like the
Packers in general this season, Like they are Jordan Love.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
They're like all or nothing.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
They're like either falling down seventeen nothing against the Saints
or they're coming back in this game. You know, they
were pretty good in the third course this game. They
made it interesting. There was a moment there where they
had a two point conversion that would have cut it
to one score. So so that they got back into
it against the Falcons. The Packers h were way ahead
(09:13):
and then they blew that lead in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
And that's that's Jordan Love to be right now.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Everything is either like a big time throw and you're
just like, wow, that that is impressive, And when he runs,
I think, wow, he's a better runner than I expected.
But the other stuff is just like the throws are
either way off or it's you saw tonight when he's
really faced a good front for the first time under pressure.
It was just taking a little too long for the
(09:39):
Gears to grind and and just taking some bad sacks.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
It was. It was an up and down performance for
Jordan Love. I think there was some stuff they kind
of did pretty well. I think in the second half
they started to put together some drives. He started to
play a little better under pressure. But I think an
even larger issue than Jordan Love is kind of just
I hate to say the offense in general, but you
know at halftime AJ Dillon was third on the team
(10:05):
and routes run like that's an issue for this team
going forward. You cant have AJ Dillon out there running
all these routes. Aaron Aaron Jones usage has been weird
for the entire season. I know he's been injured, but
seven snaps, five routes run at halftime in one target,
that's not gonna get it done. For the best offensive
(10:25):
player on your team, you have to find a way
to consistently get him involved. I know that the run
game wasn't working as much because the offensive line wasn't
as good, but you have to find a way to
get him involved. You have to find a way to
make it a little easier for this young quarterback.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, maybe I'll give laflaur the benefit of the doubt
or with usage, because yeah, Jones was a little in
and out in that first week too, and then he
missed a couple week and maybe they were just easing
him back into the lineup tonight. Christian Watson also returned,
which was a good sign. Didn't get a chance to
make many catches. Four targets, two catches twenty five yards.
(11:04):
He did have a touchdown on a good play call
right at the goal line where he was wide open,
and had one other play. I tried to keep an
eye on him because I'm watching Do you watch the
Prime Vision?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, yeah, I know you do. You're a dork. I
love it.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
I mean I love it like I wish I wish
I had that option for every game, but I especially
like it on these Thursday nights, just as a changeup
so you can watch the route. Sometimes you lose track
of what's going on upfront. But I was trying to
watch Watson and to me, he looked good. And it's
just crazy, though you're counting on this guy from where
was it North Dakota State that he's like your true
(11:40):
one with the most experienced he's like a second second
year player. I think Dobbs has looked good this year,
and Jaydeen Reid made it a couple of plays. But
I just think this team is going to be better
in December offensively than they are right now.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Yeah, I think it's going to take a lot of time,
especially if Botiari is indeed done for the season, because
that's a massive piece that you were hoping. Like the
optimism for the Packers going into the season was Okay,
everybody on the offensive line is going to be healthy,
and now four games into the season, Jenkins has hurt
Baktyaris on ir and so those are two immediately out
(12:15):
the window.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
So you just have you heard anything on Baktyari or something?
Is there?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Is there a is there talk that he might be
out for more because this this news happened today and
I was surprised to see it.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
So I saw he was on IR. I saw they
had he went under arthroscopic knee surgery, which I mean,
if you want to hold him out for four games
after knee surgery, like, I don't know if he's coming back,
I really don't. It's the whole Baktyari thing has been
very weird. I think he's been adamant about not playing
on turf, which yeah, I understand not wanting to play
(12:47):
on turf, but he's also the fourth highest paid offensive
tackle in the NFL, so you need we got to
actually have him playing games. And he's played one of
the first four games of the season. That's not a
great number. So it's just it's just been a very weird,
weird time for David Botiari posts like twenty.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Twenty, Okay, I am looking and I see I missed
this rap sheet. Our guy at in NFL Networking, Rapports,
said the latest surgery is probably a precursor for a
bigger surgery later and there's all sorts of cap implications,
and they're gonna have to eat a dead cap it
if he's not on their roster next year.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
No matter what. It's unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
You hate to see a guy who was on a
Hall of Fame trajectory and actually will still even have
a case for it, really have his career cut short.
But for this year, man, that's gonna hurt the Packers,
who until this.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Week hadn't really played a good pass rush.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
And that's why those those numbers, including Jordan's love numbers,
I was was kind of looking a little side eye
just because they hadn't played a team. They played the
Saints last week, but I don't think of the Saints
as elite pass rush. I think of them as a defense.
But this week you saw it kind of come home
to Russ. Let's slip it to the other side. Let's
talk about some Ben Johnson. Give me your Ben Johnson take,
(14:08):
because I thought, like most games, he had just a
couple of.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Plays in this game.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
I love the overall philosophy, but a couple of individual
plays in this game where it's just like he won
and he got his team points.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
One of my favorite play calls that they had is
the Khalif Raymond reverse where Jared Goff ends up getting
steamrolled by this edge rusher. I think it's Kingsley ingenbarre,
but it ends up going for thirty yards because everybody
else on the other side of the field near Piney
Sewell leading out in front of you. That's what Johnson
can do. They have their bread and butter up front
(14:41):
with the offensive line. That's going to raise the floor
of this offense. I say it a lot about the
Eagles offensive line, but the Lions are right there as well.
That is a game changing positional group. They can slow
a game down if they want. They can completely flip
the momentum of a game if they choose to, and
they did it tonight. I think the Pack have been
really bad defending the run out of their base personnel
(15:04):
this year, and the Lions was like, yeah, we're just
gonna get big and you're not gonna be able to
stop us. They dominated in the run game. It was
great to see Jonah Jackson play as well as he did.
Taylor Decker on one leg still looked really well, and
Pinay Sewell. I feel like every time they need a
big run or they need a big play, you're run
behind fifty eight and it works most of the time.
(15:25):
But you still see what Ben Johnson can do in
terms of coaxing a little more aggression out of Jared Goff.
He gets them to kind of play a little bit
outside of his shell. It was a lot of quick
passing still, but you could see the gears kind of
turning for Jared goffeel like, Okay, I can hit this
throw down field if I want it. He's all I
(15:46):
said on Twitter. He's like the king of the twelve
yard dig and that's what they've built the offense around.
They know that that's his comfort, that's his bread and butter.
Build it around him.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, I want to get to what you said on
Johnson and second, but while we're on golf, Look, you
had a bad interception early, quickly bounced back, had some
really nice accurate throws. One of those digs I think
it was to Laporte, a nice touch pass down the
sideline to Reynolds where Reynolds made a couple of just
fantastic catches in this game. They're just getting contributions out
(16:18):
of everyone. But the one thing I've noticed, and I
know Jared Goff has worked on this and it's only
gonna work so much. But you are getting like one
pretty good second reaction play a week from Jared Goff,
and it's like, Okay, I see that, Jared Goff because
I didn't even get you weren't even getting that one,
I don't think in Los Angeles, and he's worked on it.
Where in one of them, I'm trying to think which
(16:40):
play was it the play to a play where he's
rolling to Reynolds where he got It's like, you're getting
kind of one, like the play breaks down and Jared
Goff makes a play a week and that I'll take it.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I'll take it.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah it was. It was a rollout where he's getting pressured,
rolls to his left, flips back and he throws laporta
and I was like.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
That and he was accurate, and yeah, once in a
while you'll see you'll see him check it down a
little earlier than you would maybe want. But that is
a small price to pay for the way he's playing overall,
and they're not asking him to do much.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
You mentioned it.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
I love the way you put that that they can
slow the game down. And then yeah, I watched that
Seahawks Lions game and they can speed it up to
when when they need to, and that, man, that's a
dangerous thing to be as an offense that you can
play any type of way, depending on what type of
game it is, what situation you're in. And I was
surprised someone tweeted out I think it was Pat Dlarready
(17:39):
at the end of the game. They came into this
game thirtieth and expected pass rate like in neutral situations,
which means they are among the most run heavy teams
in the league, which is surprising to me. That's not
their profile, and that that's going up because they just
ran the ball forty three times. I mean, I'd like
to split up the carries a little more evenly, just
because thirty two carries for David Montgomery coming off a
(18:03):
couple of weeks injured, like that's not good for his
long term health. And Jamir gum Gibbs was running well,
so I'd like to even that out. But I can't
fault them. It was working that they were moving the
ball in Montgomery was running well.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Yeah, I think the thirty two carries for David Montgomery
might stun a lot of people and disappoint a lot
of Jamir Gibbs fantasy owners. But it makes a lot
of sense for this game. For this game, Detroit knew
that they were going to be the more physical team
up front.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
I hear you.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
But when they're up by seventeen late, just give the
last five to Gibbs.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
You're asking for an injury there, But I hear you. Continue.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Yeah, it felt like late in the game they were
kind of getting Montgomery like, hey, we'll throw you a
little bit of a bone in here, we'll get you
over one hundred. But David Montgomery right now is the
more physical runner between the tackles. That's where you know
you can beat this Packers team. This Packers team for
having seven eight however many first round picks they have
(18:58):
on defense, the spine of that defense is really bad
up the middle. And it stunned me because you have
guys like Kenny Clark, who is a very very good player.
You have Lucas van Nessa's played made a lot of
really nice moments in the run and pass game. Rashan
Gary still looks awesome, but.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
He looked good tonight. He's look good all year.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
This looks fantastic, But for some reason, this team is
always bad against the run, and it goes back to
I mean, you gotta look at coaching at that point.
But the Lions know so well, like their bread and
butter is built up front, and they can run every
concept in the book. They mixed in outside zone with
(19:41):
counter power. They do everything. They throw the oral kitchen
sink at you because the offensive line can do everything.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
This is like just the Lions dream.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Like last year on this podcast, we made them the
team of the Around the NFL Podcast, and I said
right afterwards, like right after it ended, it ended on
such a high, big funk.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I know you got the the sting back there that
like I wanted to run it back. Let's just go.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Let's just go a second time around, make them the
team of the Around the NFL Podcast a second year.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
So we've never done that before, we might have to
do it again.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
And even if we don't, I don't care. I'm going
to en enjoy the journey. It's fun and you're seeing
like really smart, smart guys who build a team in
a certain way but also coach the team in a
certain way, and and guys out there just playing with
all sorts of energy and yeah, Ben Jonson like that
that early touchdown to Ammon Ross Saint Brown.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
They knew that what was coming.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
They knew they were gonna burn Razulo Douglas on that play,
and they did it, and that is awesome to see.
One thing that was a little concerning. Brian Branch left
this game. Had an ankle injury that look quite serious.
He was carted off, he taped it up, returned to
the game, but then left again at the end.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
So hopefully he's okay.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
But otherwise, Luke Musgrave had a concussion in this game
for the Packers. I hated to see that. Sam Laporta
winning that kind of rookie tight end battle. Another nice
game for him, fifty six yards. To talk to me
on Laporta before we get out of here, because man,
I was I've been, I was honking. I have a
text thread with Danny Kelly over at the Ringer that
(21:28):
is just about Sam Laporta, because I was so big
on Sam Laporta, and like at this point I'm texting
saying like I'm going to be texting you when he's
making his speech in Canton. That's the trajectory he's on
right now.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
With the way that Sam Laporta has played for the
first four weeks. I have never ever, ever been more
convinced that Brian Farrens and the Iowa offense is offence
literally an a fence to everything in football. Now you're
not able to get that guy more involved or get
that guy more targets. Is wild to me what the
Mayas have done, and it's so cool just I think
(22:01):
before the game, Next Gen Stats tweeted out that most
of Sam Laporter's production has come on in breaking routes.
They know where his bread and butter is made. After
the catch, get the ball in his hands and let
them run. And that's really what they're letting them do.
You know, they've basically created another underneath intermediate area target
for Jared Goff, but this time you've given him a
(22:22):
bigger body, someone who can move after the catch. The
play that Golf threw to him over the middle, I
think the Packers were a man coverage. He beats linebacker,
catches the ball, then breaks the linebacker's tackle, runs for
another twenty yards. That's what Sam Laporter can do, and
that's what he's shown that he's been able to do.
It provides not only a safety blanket for Jared Goff, underneath,
(22:45):
but another level of explosiveness that I really thought the
Lions wouldn't be able to have with Jamison Williams out
for the first six game this season, But it just
so happens that they have a two hundred and fifty
pounds tight end who can also provide some of that.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Oh they needed it too, because you just look to
you know, Reynolds is doing a nice job and Khalif
Raman will pop up for a player two, but it
felt like they needed someone else to throw to, and
Laporta has just stepped right into that role. And I
know Gibbs fantasy owners are frustrated, but I think his
days will come, and the way they're using it, it's
hard to really fault him. And even tonight he picked
(23:20):
up two key third downs, one as a receiver, one
as a runner where he's running through that first tackle
too most of the time. So I like his day
will come. I'm not worried about him and where they
took him there. They're loving life. I'm loving having you
on JP. We gotta do this again. You're the man
staying up late in Orlando? What's the Orlando NFL seee?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Like? Like, who do people even root for in Orlando.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
So it's a real it's a very peatri dish thing,
you know, I see, I see a lot of Buccaneers fans.
Tampa is like an hour hour and a half away,
so there's a lot of Buccaneers fans. Not a lot
of Jacksonville fans considering, but it's very heavy Tampa. Every
every Tampa game is broadcast locally, and then they also
get the Jaguars games. But they're very much Tampa fans.
(24:09):
And you know, with UCF being here, it's a whole
lot of a whole lot of nights and Buccaneers, which
does not bode well for my FAU fandom and the
Jacksonville Jaguars.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Oh that's right, you are, mister f A.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
I mean, it's gonna be a little bit of a comdown,
I would think after the year you've had.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
It's been a little bit of a comdown. You know.
You ride the high the Final four and next thing
you know, Clemson is blasting your favorite team on the
ACC network. It's it's a little rough.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
But again, check out JP. He's doing great stuff at
eSPI Nation.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
You can check them out on Twitter at Acosta thirty
two Underscore JP, appreciate you, appreciate the analysis, and appreciate
you breaking records. You gotta, you gotta be the youngest
person on the show that we've ever had because you
just graduated like two years ago.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Like I said, thanks again to JP. That is it
for us tonight. A great night if you're a fan
of the Detroit Lions, great night really for America in general.
We will be back on Sunday with the flagship show.
Until then, heed the car.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Hey, everyone's Scott Hansen here. And this is NFL Plus
where you can catch every play all in one place.
You get access to live local and primetime games on
your mobile phone and tablet. That's every in market game
with you on the go.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
I never knew that was the thing.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
Oh yeah, and here's my favorite part. You can stream
NFL Red Zone live every Sunday. What are you waiting for?
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Right now? Right now?
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Go to Plus dot nfl dot com. Sign up today.
Thirty five yards GoF deep again wide open, making the
grab and taking it and.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Is shak Brown second in goal.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Id's gonna keep it himself touchdown Green Bay.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Here it is again. You heard that talking about it.
Here's the foul on Walker, but you talk about a
late flag.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Thirty four to twenty. The Lions owned the NFC North
Detroit takes care of business in Lambeau, their fourth straight
win against Attackers, the second straight time they put a
herd on him on national television. These are new times
and you can tell that a Packers fan, big Funk
(00:51):
Randy Javez put that highlight package together because he included
a Packers' penalty to finish it. That led to the
game ceiling touchdown by David Montgomery, his third of the night.
I'm Greg Rosenthal talking TNF with a new friend of
the pod. Very excited to welcome JP Acosta to the show.
(01:13):
He does great workover at sp Nation.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Jp.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
We got a pretty gun one for you for your
first time on the Round the NFL Podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Welcome, thanks for having me. This is a fun one
because this is right up my alley. This is this
is a Lions offensive line run run the rock, established
that defensive lines playing great. This is right up my alley.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Wow, what you're at, You're like, you're at dight, Dan Campbell,
tough guy. I want to run the ball. How many
times did he do it tonight? Forty three times? And
just dominate the line of scrimmage. That's your game.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
That's right, that's right. Football is one and lost on
the line of scrimmage, and Dan Campbell made sure to
put an emphasis on that going into his game.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
You're absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Although I'm gonna start on the defensive side, and they
won it up front there too. We can go in
a lot of directions here, and we will. We're gonna
go over this game. It was a lot of fun
if you're like me and have been loving this Lion's
rise over the last two seasons. But I think we
got to start with the first twenty two plays that
(02:19):
the Packers ran on offense, which got us almost a halftime.
Those twenty two plays, JP gained one get into negative yard.
They did not gain a yard in their first twenty
two plays. At that point in the game, it was
twenty seven to three. The game was all but over.
(02:42):
The Packers did what they've been doing the last couple
weeks made a little interesting in the second half, But
tell me from your advantage point what you saw what
they did in that first half defensively, that just made
the Packers look like they didn't even belong on the
field with Detroit.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
It was so interesting just for a Packers offensive line
that did not allow a lot of pressure through the
first few games this season just looked completely overwhelmed against
a Detroit Lions front that we remember a couple of
weeks ago did not look that great against the Seattle Seahawks,
Like this is a this is the second week out
(03:21):
of two weeks set. The Lions have looked really good
up front, and I think it kind of has to
do with the development and the growth of the young
guys they have on that side of the ball. We
all know about Aiden Hutchinson, the way that he's playing
to start the season. One of the things I've enjoyed
that they're doing is moving him inside. You just be
basically match up hunt find the best way to get
(03:41):
your guys isowed on their weakest links, and that's something
that the Lions are doing right now. Ali McNeil is
playing fantastic football to start the season at defensive tackle.
But it's not even those guys. You're getting good play
from Benito Jones, Isaiah Bugs doing really good things in
the run game. So basically you've taken the Packers entire
outside zone boot action. You negated that because they cannot
(04:05):
run the ball. So you're forcing Jordan Love to essentially
become a primary drop back passer, forcing him to make
the throws. And then on the back end, you know,
those guys are playing really well. I think that Jordan
Love sailed a few passes early. It's still very clear
that he still needs time to actually like play the games,
(04:27):
to get more, get his feet wet a little more.
But it's really just the domination up front. It's been
a long time since I've seen the Packers look so
overwhelmed up front, especially by a Detroit Lions football team.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
I couldn't agree more because you're right, even in this
four game windustry, it's the Packers offensive line has mostly
been a mainstay. Tonight, they were without back to Ari again.
He was placed on injured reserve actually since we last
taped a podcast, so that means he's he's kinda miss
at least a few more games. That's a big, big
letdown for them and raises a whole lot of questions
(05:06):
about his contract and all this other stuff we don't
need to get into. They're also without el Elton Jenkins
and you mentioned it, and this is why I wanted
you on JP goes deep, check out it, check them
out on X on Twitter, and he's breaking down a
Lee McNeil earlier this week, who is coming off a
big time game and he's just thrown out Bugs and
I'll throw out you know, Kaminsky had a nice stop
(05:27):
on that two point conversion and they're winning their on
one match with Charles Harris had to play. I mean
they Isaiah Bugs wasn't even active a couple of weeks ago.
So that's the depth that I think Campbell and Brad
Holmes when they're putting this team together, really wanted. And
what's impressed me in this three and one start, and
I do want to stay on the defense for now,
(05:48):
is they've had injuries. They've had injuries on both sides,
but they've especially had injuries on defense, and they've kind
of built a roster that can withstand it. And they
had one bad week really against Seattle where they got
it handed to them for the most part defensively, but
other than that, man, this is this is a different defense.
Those guys are tough upfront. They're gonna make it very
(06:10):
tough to run the ball. And they barely even tried
with with Aaron Jones and aj Dillon and by the
time they tried, the game was essentially over. And they've
been able to withstand injuries on the back end. And
that's impressive. That that's team building and that's depth because
they don't really have superstars.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
They just have good players.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Like Derek Barnes has been flashing to me all season
like he's not a guy I ever really paid that
much attention to, but he's been a great run stopper.
And just say each spot, it's like they have guys
that make sense exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
It's more they're more they're not individual stars like you said,
but they're much more than the some they're they're basically
they work as a team. You know, I think the
team defense up front has been so played so well.
I know it's against Atlanta. The Atlanta game was really
a huge test for them going into this game because
(07:01):
both these teams want to run the ball, they want
to be physical, with you up front, and the Lions
basically just lined up and kick their butts the entire game.
It was it was wild to see this team just
essentially go in and be like, Yeah, we're just gonna
We're gonna line up and you're not gonna be able
to block us. And like you said, Derek Barnes playing
(07:22):
great football. I think Jack Campbell has had really nice
moments in the run and pass game. They lined them
up on the edge on early downs because you know,
with James Houston out for a long time with an
ankle injury, they lined Jack Campbell up down on the
edge on early downs, so I thought was kind of interesting.
They did it a little bit last week. I think
it's kind of due to their lack of depth out
(07:44):
on the edge, but I was like, okay, I'll put
a little pin in that. You know. Maybe maybe I
mean Jack Campbell's like six five, two forty, maybe this
will be a thing that they just keep doing. But
they're working with the pieces that they have and they're
turning it into a machine. Though. Front.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
It's like what you want out of team building because
they stuck with Aaron Glenn, who's always thought to be
a really promising defensive coordinator, a guy they really believed
in in the results because of the roster and because
they were putting it together. Weren't really there the first
couple of years, and you're seeing it to come together.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So I love when that happens.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
This is year three of their program and they've pretty
much done it, and yeah, it's funny. Actually, remember when
they call I remember the call where they call Campbell
when he was drafted. They actually ask him like if
he would ever want to line up as you know,
you want to line up on the edge a little bit.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
You think you can do that, And he said, I'll
do whatever.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
So they're putting into motion, they get creative, and I
guess let's slip it to the Packers offense.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Love.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
His experience, to me, is a little bit like the
Packers in general this season, Like they are Jordan Love.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
They're like all or nothing.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
They're like either falling down seventeen nothing against the Saints
or they're coming back in this game. You know, they
were pretty good in the third course this game. They
made it interesting. There was a moment there where they
had a two point conversion that would have cut it
to one score. So so that they got back into
it against the Falcons. The Packers h were way ahead
(09:13):
and then they blew that lead in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
And that's that's Jordan Love to be right now.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Everything is either like a big time throw and you're
just like, wow, that that is impressive, And when he runs,
I think, wow, he's a better runner than I expected.
But the other stuff is just like the throws are
either way off or it's you saw tonight when he's
really faced a good front for the first time under pressure.
It was just taking a little too long for the
(09:39):
Gears to grind and and just taking some bad sacks.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
It was. It was an up and down performance for
Jordan Love. I think there was some stuff they kind
of did pretty well. I think in the second half
they started to put together some drives. He started to
play a little better under pressure. But I think an
even larger issue than Jordan Love is kind of just
I hate to say the offense in general, but you
know at halftime AJ Dillon was third on the team
(10:05):
and routes run like that's an issue for this team
going forward. You cant have AJ Dillon out there running
all these routes. Aaron Aaron Jones usage has been weird
for the entire season. I know he's been injured, but
seven snaps, five routes run at halftime in one target,
that's not gonna get it done. For the best offensive
(10:25):
player on your team, you have to find a way
to consistently get him involved. I know that the run
game wasn't working as much because the offensive line wasn't
as good, but you have to find a way to
get him involved. You have to find a way to
make it a little easier for this young quarterback.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, maybe I'll give laflaur the benefit of the doubt
or with usage, because yeah, Jones was a little in
and out in that first week too, and then he
missed a couple week and maybe they were just easing
him back into the lineup tonight. Christian Watson also returned,
which was a good sign. Didn't get a chance to
make many catches. Four targets, two catches twenty five yards.
(11:04):
He did have a touchdown on a good play call
right at the goal line where he was wide open,
and had one other play. I tried to keep an
eye on him because I'm watching Do you watch the
Prime Vision?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, yeah, I know you do. You're a dork. I
love it.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
I mean I love it like I wish I wish
I had that option for every game, but I especially
like it on these Thursday nights, just as a changeup
so you can watch the route. Sometimes you lose track
of what's going on upfront. But I was trying to
watch Watson and to me, he looked good. And it's
just crazy, though you're counting on this guy from where
was it North Dakota State that he's like your true
(11:40):
one with the most experienced he's like a second second
year player. I think Dobbs has looked good this year,
and Jaydeen Reid made it a couple of plays. But
I just think this team is going to be better
in December offensively than they are right now.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Yeah, I think it's going to take a lot of time,
especially if Botiari is indeed done for the season, because
that's a massive piece that you were hoping. Like the
optimism for the Packers going into the season was Okay,
everybody on the offensive line is going to be healthy,
and now four games into the season, Jenkins has hurt
Baktyaris on ir and so those are two immediately out
(12:15):
the window.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
So you just have you heard anything on Baktyari or something?
Is there?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Is there a is there talk that he might be
out for more because this this news happened today and
I was surprised to see it.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
So I saw he was on IR. I saw they
had he went under arthroscopic knee surgery, which I mean,
if you want to hold him out for four games
after knee surgery, like, I don't know if he's coming back,
I really don't. It's the whole Baktyari thing has been
very weird. I think he's been adamant about not playing
on turf, which yeah, I understand not wanting to play
(12:47):
on turf, but he's also the fourth highest paid offensive
tackle in the NFL, so you need we got to
actually have him playing games. And he's played one of
the first four games of the season. That's not a
great number. So it's just it's just been a very weird,
weird time for David Botiari posts like twenty.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Twenty, Okay, I am looking and I see I missed
this rap sheet. Our guy at in NFL Networking, Rapports,
said the latest surgery is probably a precursor for a
bigger surgery later and there's all sorts of cap implications,
and they're gonna have to eat a dead cap it
if he's not on their roster next year.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
No matter what. It's unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
You hate to see a guy who was on a
Hall of Fame trajectory and actually will still even have
a case for it, really have his career cut short.
But for this year, man, that's gonna hurt the Packers,
who until this.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Week hadn't really played a good pass rush.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
And that's why those those numbers, including Jordan's love numbers,
I was was kind of looking a little side eye
just because they hadn't played a team. They played the
Saints last week, but I don't think of the Saints
as elite pass rush. I think of them as a defense.
But this week you saw it kind of come home
to Russ. Let's slip it to the other side. Let's
talk about some Ben Johnson. Give me your Ben Johnson take,
(14:08):
because I thought, like most games, he had just a
couple of.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Plays in this game.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
I love the overall philosophy, but a couple of individual
plays in this game where it's just like he won
and he got his team points.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
One of my favorite play calls that they had is
the Khalif Raymond reverse where Jared Goff ends up getting
steamrolled by this edge rusher. I think it's Kingsley ingenbarre,
but it ends up going for thirty yards because everybody
else on the other side of the field near Piney
Sewell leading out in front of you. That's what Johnson
can do. They have their bread and butter up front
(14:41):
with the offensive line. That's going to raise the floor
of this offense. I say it a lot about the
Eagles offensive line, but the Lions are right there as well.
That is a game changing positional group. They can slow
a game down if they want. They can completely flip
the momentum of a game if they choose to, and
they did it tonight. I think the Pack have been
really bad defending the run out of their base personnel
(15:04):
this year, and the Lions was like, yeah, we're just
gonna get big and you're not gonna be able to
stop us. They dominated in the run game. It was
great to see Jonah Jackson play as well as he did.
Taylor Decker on one leg still looked really well, and
Pinay Sewell. I feel like every time they need a
big run or they need a big play, you're run
behind fifty eight and it works most of the time.
(15:25):
But you still see what Ben Johnson can do in
terms of coaxing a little more aggression out of Jared Goff.
He gets them to kind of play a little bit
outside of his shell. It was a lot of quick
passing still, but you could see the gears kind of
turning for Jared goffeel like, Okay, I can hit this
throw down field if I want it. He's all I
(15:46):
said on Twitter. He's like the king of the twelve
yard dig and that's what they've built the offense around.
They know that that's his comfort, that's his bread and butter.
Build it around him.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, I want to get to what you said on
Johnson and second, but while we're on golf, Look, you
had a bad interception early, quickly bounced back, had some
really nice accurate throws. One of those digs I think
it was to Laporte, a nice touch pass down the
sideline to Reynolds where Reynolds made a couple of just
fantastic catches in this game. They're just getting contributions out
(16:18):
of everyone. But the one thing I've noticed, and I
know Jared Goff has worked on this and it's only
gonna work so much. But you are getting like one
pretty good second reaction play a week from Jared Goff,
and it's like, Okay, I see that, Jared Goff because
I didn't even get you weren't even getting that one,
I don't think in Los Angeles, and he's worked on it.
Where in one of them, I'm trying to think which
(16:40):
play was it the play to a play where he's
rolling to Reynolds where he got It's like, you're getting
kind of one, like the play breaks down and Jared
Goff makes a play a week and that I'll take it.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I'll take it.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah it was. It was a rollout where he's getting pressured,
rolls to his left, flips back and he throws laporta
and I was like.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
That and he was accurate, and yeah, once in a
while you'll see you'll see him check it down a
little earlier than you would maybe want. But that is
a small price to pay for the way he's playing overall,
and they're not asking him to do much.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
You mentioned it.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
I love the way you put that that they can
slow the game down. And then yeah, I watched that
Seahawks Lions game and they can speed it up to
when when they need to, and that, man, that's a
dangerous thing to be as an offense that you can
play any type of way, depending on what type of
game it is, what situation you're in. And I was
surprised someone tweeted out I think it was Pat Dlarready
(17:39):
at the end of the game. They came into this
game thirtieth and expected pass rate like in neutral situations,
which means they are among the most run heavy teams
in the league, which is surprising to me. That's not
their profile, and that that's going up because they just
ran the ball forty three times. I mean, I'd like
to split up the carries a little more evenly, just
because thirty two carries for David Montgomery coming off a
(18:03):
couple of weeks injured, like that's not good for his
long term health. And Jamir gum Gibbs was running well,
so I'd like to even that out. But I can't
fault them. It was working that they were moving the
ball in Montgomery was running well.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Yeah, I think the thirty two carries for David Montgomery
might stun a lot of people and disappoint a lot
of Jamir Gibbs fantasy owners. But it makes a lot
of sense for this game. For this game, Detroit knew
that they were going to be the more physical team
up front.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
I hear you.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
But when they're up by seventeen late, just give the
last five to Gibbs.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
You're asking for an injury there, But I hear you. Continue.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Yeah, it felt like late in the game they were
kind of getting Montgomery like, hey, we'll throw you a
little bit of a bone in here, we'll get you
over one hundred. But David Montgomery right now is the
more physical runner between the tackles. That's where you know
you can beat this Packers team. This Packers team for
having seven eight however many first round picks they have
(18:58):
on defense, the spine of that defense is really bad
up the middle. And it stunned me because you have
guys like Kenny Clark, who is a very very good player.
You have Lucas van Nessa's played made a lot of
really nice moments in the run and pass game. Rashan
Gary still looks awesome, but.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
He looked good tonight. He's look good all year.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
This looks fantastic, But for some reason, this team is
always bad against the run, and it goes back to
I mean, you gotta look at coaching at that point.
But the Lions know so well, like their bread and
butter is built up front, and they can run every
concept in the book. They mixed in outside zone with
(19:41):
counter power. They do everything. They throw the oral kitchen
sink at you because the offensive line can do everything.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
This is like just the Lions dream.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Like last year on this podcast, we made them the
team of the Around the NFL Podcast, and I said
right afterwards, like right after it ended, it ended on
such a high, big funk.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I know you got the the sting back there that
like I wanted to run it back. Let's just go.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Let's just go a second time around, make them the
team of the Around the NFL Podcast a second year.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
So we've never done that before, we might have to
do it again.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
And even if we don't, I don't care. I'm going
to en enjoy the journey. It's fun and you're seeing
like really smart, smart guys who build a team in
a certain way but also coach the team in a
certain way, and and guys out there just playing with
all sorts of energy and yeah, Ben Jonson like that
that early touchdown to Ammon Ross Saint Brown.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
They knew that what was coming.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
They knew they were gonna burn Razulo Douglas on that play,
and they did it, and that is awesome to see.
One thing that was a little concerning. Brian Branch left
this game. Had an ankle injury that look quite serious.
He was carted off, he taped it up, returned to
the game, but then left again at the end.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
So hopefully he's okay.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
But otherwise, Luke Musgrave had a concussion in this game
for the Packers. I hated to see that. Sam Laporta
winning that kind of rookie tight end battle. Another nice
game for him, fifty six yards. To talk to me
on Laporta before we get out of here, because man,
I was I've been, I was honking. I have a
text thread with Danny Kelly over at the Ringer that
(21:28):
is just about Sam Laporta, because I was so big
on Sam Laporta, and like at this point I'm texting
saying like I'm going to be texting you when he's
making his speech in Canton. That's the trajectory he's on
right now.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
With the way that Sam Laporta has played for the
first four weeks. I have never ever, ever been more
convinced that Brian Farrens and the Iowa offense is offence
literally an a fence to everything in football. Now you're
not able to get that guy more involved or get
that guy more targets. Is wild to me what the
Mayas have done, and it's so cool just I think
(22:01):
before the game, Next Gen Stats tweeted out that most
of Sam Laporter's production has come on in breaking routes.
They know where his bread and butter is made. After
the catch, get the ball in his hands and let
them run. And that's really what they're letting them do.
You know, they've basically created another underneath intermediate area target
for Jared Goff, but this time you've given him a
(22:22):
bigger body, someone who can move after the catch. The
play that Golf threw to him over the middle, I
think the Packers were a man coverage. He beats linebacker,
catches the ball, then breaks the linebacker's tackle, runs for
another twenty yards. That's what Sam Laporter can do, and
that's what he's shown that he's been able to do.
It provides not only a safety blanket for Jared Goff, underneath,
(22:45):
but another level of explosiveness that I really thought the
Lions wouldn't be able to have with Jamison Williams out
for the first six game this season, But it just
so happens that they have a two hundred and fifty
pounds tight end who can also provide some of that.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Oh they needed it too, because you just look to
you know, Reynolds is doing a nice job and Khalif
Raman will pop up for a player two, but it
felt like they needed someone else to throw to, and
Laporta has just stepped right into that role. And I
know Gibbs fantasy owners are frustrated, but I think his
days will come, and the way they're using it, it's
hard to really fault him. And even tonight he picked
(23:20):
up two key third downs, one as a receiver, one
as a runner where he's running through that first tackle
too most of the time. So I like his day
will come. I'm not worried about him and where they
took him there. They're loving life. I'm loving having you
on JP. We gotta do this again. You're the man
staying up late in Orlando? What's the Orlando NFL seee?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Like? Like, who do people even root for in Orlando.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
So it's a real it's a very peatri dish thing,
you know, I see, I see a lot of Buccaneers fans.
Tampa is like an hour hour and a half away,
so there's a lot of Buccaneers fans. Not a lot
of Jacksonville fans considering, but it's very heavy Tampa. Every
every Tampa game is broadcast locally, and then they also
get the Jaguars games. But they're very much Tampa fans.
(24:09):
And you know, with UCF being here, it's a whole
lot of a whole lot of nights and Buccaneers, which
does not bode well for my FAU fandom and the
Jacksonville Jaguars.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Oh that's right, you are, mister f A.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
I mean, it's gonna be a little bit of a comdown,
I would think after the year you've had.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
It's been a little bit of a comdown. You know.
You ride the high the Final four and next thing
you know, Clemson is blasting your favorite team on the
ACC network. It's it's a little rough.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
But again, check out JP. He's doing great stuff at
eSPI Nation.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
You can check them out on Twitter at Acosta thirty
two Underscore JP, appreciate you, appreciate the analysis, and appreciate
you breaking records. You gotta, you gotta be the youngest
person on the show that we've ever had because you
just graduated like two years ago.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Like I said, thanks again to JP. That is it
for us tonight. A great night if you're a fan
of the Detroit Lions, great night really for America in general.
We will be back on Sunday with the flagship show.
Until then, heed the car.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Hey, everyone's Scott Hansen here. And this is NFL Plus
where you can catch every play all in one place.
You get access to live local and primetime games on
your mobile phone and tablet. That's every in market game
with you on the go.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
I never knew that was the thing.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
Oh yeah, and here's my favorite part. You can stream
NFL Red Zone live every Sunday. What are you waiting for?
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Right now? Right now?
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Go to Plus dot nfl dot com. Sign up today.
Host
Gregg Rosenthal
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