October 3, 2023 • 47 mins
In a virtual room fill of heroes - Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, and Marc Sessler recap Week 4's Monday Night Football matchup between the Seahawks and the Giants. After the guys talk Monday Night Football, they get you caught up on news from around the NFL including an update on Kenny Pickett's injury (22:25), Jonathan Taylor's status with the Colts (25:10), a tough week for the Patriots (32:06), and the latest development in the Chase Claypool drama (38:00).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Smith that to his right.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
End zone shot cap.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
For the Scorn.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
First and goal one on one at the top with
DK metcalp.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Here is Horker for the touchdown.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
This's what's back tap the other.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Way Witherspoon, Devin wetherspoone cuts.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Back one a night for the rookie.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
You think they love him in Seattle.
Speaker 5 (00:44):
How about six points touchdown Witherspoon.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
No flags.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
You know, typically with these Island games, we'd like to
give you that little buff of highlights and we'll mix in,
you know, one from one of the losing team and then.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
A couple from the winning team.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
But some games you gotta go triple play for the victor,
and this was that case for the Seattle Seahawks who
went to the Medalands and really put the Giant season.
I don't want to get crazy here, and we'll get
to it, but to me kind of on ice in
some ways, with a twenty four to three win in
(01:28):
front of seventy five let's say about sixty six thousand
furious Giants fans and about ten thousand delirious Seattle fans,
or at least that's how it sounded as they took
over that building in the swamp late in the game.
A dominating performance by the defense of the Seahawks. Bobby
Wagner one of four Seahawks to have two sacks in
(01:52):
this game. I believe they had eleven total, and it
was that pick six that put the game away. But
in many ways this was really as one sided as
it gets, even if the score wasn't quite as dramatic
as one would say for a total boat race.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Dan Hans is here with.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Greg Rosenthal and Mark Sessler on a Monday night. Gregy,
you love your Seahawks, you love your Geno Smith, but
this is like, this is a beautiful win for.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Pete Carroll's team.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
And you could tell by Carl's reaction on the sideline
this is right up his alley.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
He's going to sleep well.
Speaker 6 (02:29):
Tonight, yeah, because all he's wanted for what eight years
now is to bring it back, bring it back to
those legion of boom defenses that they celebrated in twenty thirteen.
Just a week ago, they had a big celebration in
Seattle as all the players coming back except for one
player who's still on the team that they were celebrated,
(02:50):
and that's Bobby Wagner and him being one of the
guys with two sacks to me was fitting because they
had eleven sacks. Just it's just bonkers in a good
defense this year. I think they have the pieces to
get better. Stomping on incompetent opposition is a sign of
a good defense. But Wagner is part of a second
level of a defense that got those sacks. You mentioned
(03:13):
that the four guys got too. Jordan Brooks was one
of them. Devin Witherspoon was one of them. He had
the game of the year I think any rookie has
had on defense, and then Nuoso had the other two.
It was just crazy, and they have playmakers on those
second level. And when you're playing the Giants, everyone looks
like they have defensive playmakers because they can't block anyone.
Speaker 7 (03:33):
Yeah, I mean, it was the perfect storm of like
absolutely celebrating what the Seahawks did, but you are facing
a Giants line that already arguably the worst line in
the league, had no Andrew Thomas, they lost their starting
center John Michael Schmidt's in the middle of the game
early on, and it just seemed like a fiery, angry
(03:56):
boulder rolling downhill because it became almost an absurd.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Sport event to me to watch because it's, you.
Speaker 7 (04:02):
Know, it's like you're not gonna win this game, like
you're just simply We're watching Daniel Jones, who is a
massive athletic man being punished over and over, and it's
like every couple seconds, another takedown, another sack, And I
don't really remember a game like that because this was
only one sack away from the NFL record of twelve
and this is a very kind of rare event, and
(04:23):
it like for the Giants, I think, like you know,
Dan and I were both friends with a ton of
Giants fans. It's like the hope is receding and disappearing
with each drive that crumbles into nothingness.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
There's no explosive plays.
Speaker 7 (04:34):
And you can criticize Daniel Jones, I don't really because
it's like he yes, he's indecisive, Yes he's getting nothing
done back there, but go find me a quarterback that
can survive behind the offensive line as it currently stands
for the Giants.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, and you have.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
It's interesting and it's crazy because no one got more praise,
and rightfully so, the way Brian Dable took this Giants
team from dumpster fire under Joe Judge to a really
co adhesive, strong willed team that played tough every week.
Even the games the Giants didn't win last year, many
of them. They were competitive in the losses. They get
(05:10):
to the playoffs, didn't they got to win in the playoffs.
And you know this team now a year later, they
look Dare I say poorly coached or is it the
personnel that's that much worse this year?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I don't know. And I think when you saw a.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Great job and it's one of the benefits of these
primetime games because you have such great coverage and so
many cameras and you know they're capturing everything, so many
cutaways to the Giants fans because and just they're stunned,
they're angry because this was not supposed to be this season.
And I think that's what you're trying to figure out,
(05:47):
how this team that with the same coaching staff when
everybody was saying they are on the right track and
they're a smart, well coached team that's getting better. Now
they look like one of the worst teams in football
through four weeks. And I think that's been one of
the biggest surprises of the league for me.
Speaker 6 (06:02):
They had a shot of a fan with a brown
paper bag on and I think this was such a
perfect night for what you were talking about. I don't
think Brian Dables a bad coach, but there was one
team in this game that was missing both starting tackles
and were playing like late round afterthoughts at tackles and
then lost both their starting guards in this game and
(06:27):
won the game twenty four to three. Now, the Seahawks
offense was no great shakes in this game either. They
missed some opportunities. They didn't top three hundred yards. They
scored I guess seventeen points as an offense, but they
looked like they made sense. They had positive plays. They
certainly had, you know, a quarterback who wasn't making as
(06:47):
many negative plays. But I'm with you, Mark, this wasn't
a game that to me, was on Daniel Jones for
the most part. And I'm always happy to blame Daniel
Jones for things because when he was at the back
of his drop on most of those sacks, the pressure
was there.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
It was instant like this.
Speaker 6 (07:05):
His first fumble came from one of the many plays
where he avoided a sack, and that was because there
was an absolutely free rusher. But it wasn't like a
creative defensive blitz. It was Uchenna Nuosu, their edge rusher
who was just completely unblocked and they only rushed four
on that play, so it was like a total meltdown
(07:26):
and you lose your center at the beginning of the game.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
That hurts.
Speaker 6 (07:28):
But I think you can give credit to the Seahawks
for like, look, they're making it work Shane Waldron and
making their offense very functional and the Giants can't. So
that's personnel, but that's coaching too.
Speaker 7 (07:40):
Yeah, I mean I think there's like you ask us
he is it a Brian table thing? I mean I
give him credit for last year. I mean coaching his
human too, and like the locker room presence and who
he was was like embraced for a lot of good
reasons and he brought results. But right now they have
PFF's thirty first ranked offense and defense going into tonight.
I don't know what's going to happen to the offense
(08:02):
after that, And I'd argue that the special teams has
been equally a huge problem. That's the three things that
make up your organization and your success. Over the course
of the campaign, they've been getting They've scored three points
in the entire first quarter. In the first quarter all
season long, they've been outscored seventy seven to nine in
the first half, So that changes everything you do coming
out of half. And like they've had some of the
worst quarters we've seen by any team. And it's just like,
(08:25):
to me, it's the it's like the the I don't
know what to do about this, but these teams should
not be treating us on national television.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I don't care what time of year it.
Speaker 6 (08:32):
Is, Sunday night football in two weeks, I know that
it's even four times in six weeks, and it's it's
not it's just like it's for their fans and Jets
fans you know this too.
Speaker 7 (08:40):
It's just like it's we've got to find a solution
to this. That's a separate topic. But it's just like
we're we're two quarters into this game, and I'm thinking,
this is utterly absurd to put in front of an
international audience.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
With the two New York teams and it's both of them,
and it's doubled up and they're both having bad years
so far, and yeah, City.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Such a beautiful voice.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
It's a sad.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
New York City and I'm wearing my Knickerbockers hat today.
The New York Knicks, the NBA, the Yankees are out
of the playoffs this year. The Mets didn't make it,
had one of the more dissipate pointing years ever for
their big budget, and the Jets had Aaron Rodgers and
then we know what happened there, and the Giants.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
What's happening here? Now?
Speaker 4 (09:32):
We got to go in all on the Knicks, and
I guess the Rangers and whatever major League soccer clubs
happened to be in the Tri state area.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I'm not you got to ed.
Speaker 6 (09:40):
The WNBA finals team right now, the Liberty versus Tom
Brady's Aces.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
So okay, do you stay on top of that if
you can for me and just let me know because
those flags fly forever as well. That's true, but it
is it's so frustrating because, like from a New York
sports fan perspective, it's been a pretty dark ride in
the wilderness for you know, most of the century for
the New York sports teams and for the NFL teams.
(10:06):
This was supposed to be like a great year of
growth and maybe even the Jets are a potential Super
Bowl team, and the Giants were going to hang in
this beastly NFC East And let's face it, like what
I said at the top of the show is, yeah,
this feels with the schedule the way it is they have.
They're in Miami next week, and I think, like you said,
(10:27):
they got Buffalo Sunday Night Football the week after that,
and you know you're staring down the barrel at one
to five and a good night nurse. So Bill, the
Giants and Dables got a huge job ahead of him
now to try to keep this locker room from not
completely burning down under all the disappointment. And for the
Seattle side of things, yeah, I would be willing to
(10:49):
stick a fork in the Giants at this stage. It
just had that feeling to me that it's just not
going to be their year. And for the Seahawks, you know,
they had one really bad loss greg one against a
Rams team that now in retrospect, was not nearly as
big an upset as it seemed at the time because
the Rams turned out to be pretty damn feisty this year.
(11:09):
But since then, they beat the Lions in Week two,
they took care of business against the Panthers last week,
they whipped the Giants this week, and now they go
to Cincinnati and look at you, off to a what
are you?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Four? And oh four? O? Okay, well I'm right behind.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
You, baby. They were an underdog at the time.
Speaker 6 (11:29):
I think eventually all the casuals like me kept putting
money on them and they became the favorite.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
So and with this.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Pass rush against a week offensive line or a quarterback
who's compromised like they're getting next week again, Joe Burrow,
he could be a tasty lunch for this defense the
way they played today.
Speaker 6 (11:48):
Yeah, and they get a bye week before that. I
think that's huge they get they're getting into the buy
three and one. They've had almost as many injuries as
any team in football, so the bye week is big
for them. They have their offensive line, but the pass
rush and the defense in general has come along. And
Pete Carroll defenses, even throughout this six or seven years
(12:09):
of mediocrity, usually start out terrible. There's actually d VOI's
stats about this where September they're always bottom five, and
then they improve and they end up being average. They
usually end up being a little better than average down
the stretch. And I think there's a very real reason
for it this year. It's their two cornerbacks. Riek Willin
missed a couple of weeks. He was back in there today,
(12:30):
almost had an interception himself, and then Devin Witherspoon. That's
one of the best games I've ever seen out of
a cornerback ever forget to run.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
It was just fun to watch.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
I know, like it wasn't all in coverage, you'd have
to go watch all the coverage snaps, but in terms
of just making plays on the ball with those sacks,
those instinctual plays on one that was gonna be a
trick play where Paris Campbell was gonna throw it and
he recognized it immediately, and some of the tackles were
just crazy. That's not what you think of when you
(13:06):
think of a cornerback. But Devin Witherspoon is just a playmaker.
And even in his first game, I said he was
the main character of the game, and it was like
a lot bad and some good. He's just like he
pops off the screen. He was incredible last week. He
was even better this week. And he seems the embodiment
of whatever Pete Carroll wants in a defender like he's
(13:26):
Seattle all the way. I feel like a lot of
Weatherspoon jerseys were sold tonight.
Speaker 7 (13:30):
I also like that from a broadcasting angle, because you're
righty popped off the screen that Troy Aikman had a
major win because before the ninety seven yard pick six occurred,
he mentioned Weatherspoon like probably six or seven times. At
one point he said, he reminds me of another twenty
one that I know, Dion Sanders with his profano.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
It's like he kept.
Speaker 7 (13:52):
Propping him up and then bang the pick six happened,
and like the announcers booth was relatively quiet, and you're like,
you know that Aikman's up there just being like, yes.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
I nailed that Gino Smith quiet game statistically, and he
left this game for a series and shout out. Drew
Locke came in connected with Noah fen on a catch
and run that really put the game in control for
Seattle for about a fifty yard game. I like that
taunting penalty Gino got. He is speaking of feisty. He's
(14:21):
feisty as well. I think he got admonished by Troy
by the way for that, which is like, yeah, the
quarterback he got to be a little more under control.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
But I didn't mind it.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Greg I thought Gino showing a little fire. He didn't
like the hit that led to his injury on the sideline,
and in general seemed to have.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
An issue with some of the Giants defenders.
Speaker 6 (14:39):
Well, yeah, I think there was a question whether that
was a late hit or a dirty hit. I started
just as he was going out of bounds and then
really continued and rolled up, and so he was angry
about that. And I think the reason he was so mad,
and this is just a guest they didn't guess on
the broadcast, was Tyler Lockett got hit in a very
similar fashion just as he was going out of bounds,
right when Gino came back in, and it was that
(15:00):
play where he ended up getting the penalty. And yeah,
they didn't they didn't need much out of him. He
actually made a couple of really nice plays moving inside
the pocket. But I felt like every nice play he
made or that they were making was getting called back
by penalty. I mean, they were sloppy as hell on offense.
And that's the thing where you're watching this game and
(15:21):
you're thinking, Man, if the Giants could either make some
big plays defensively or had any sort of an offense.
Seattle was leaving the door open, especially in the first
half of this game for the Giants to show up
because they were just making so many mental errors and
the Giants just weren't ready.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
I mean, it could have been if Eli, if Daniel
Jones doesn't throw the pick six, they're at the five
yard line. There you got a touchdown and go for two.
It's a three point game going into the fourth quarter.
So that was obviously a massive game ending swing the
pick six. The only person probably not smiling connected to
the Seahawks tonight, is Jamal Adams, who finally returned.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
This was actually tough to see.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Just it reminded me when he, you know, he had
his great moments with the Jets. Things got ugly, gets
traded there, and it's been a pretty rough ride after
that first season when he had all those sacks. And
he finally gets on the field after missing like a
year and a half, about a year and a quarter,
and on the first series he gets knead in the
helmet by Daniel Jones. Clearly woozy, it was the right
(16:23):
move to pull him out of the game. The Independent
specialist on the sideline ruled him out and he has
words with him, and it seemed to be how to
be separated from the independent neurologists.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Which I feel like is a first.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
I don't think I've ever seen like that situation play
out before, so that was a bit of a bummer
to see. And then my final takeaway on this rather
mundane game is I did a double screenwatch.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
On this one.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
I came back to the Manucass for the first time
in quite a while. It was very it was delightful.
I just it's such a great product and I'm going
to continue to screen it for the of the season.
They even had Will Ferrell on and that was nice.
And even our NFL media colleague Sean O'Hara stepped in
and made a joke about Eli putting his hands between
(17:12):
his legs that old center cornerback humor and stuff, waka wakast.
Speaker 7 (17:23):
I love Maning cast. I think like others have tried
to duplicate versions of it and you can't.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
But I would say this, but you mean, like us
on our NFL Plus Monday show.
Speaker 7 (17:32):
I would point to that as something that I'm hoping
we're not trying to duplicate with this we're.
Speaker 6 (17:36):
Doing recap today's one with Colts Rams was a delight
for the senses.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
I think it would be intellectually disingenuous to say that
our Monday stream is not somewhat not modeled after it,
but you know, visually it would be a striking coincidence.
And it's it's just there's something really to me, almost
wholesome about the two brothers just kind of watching this
game and seeing how they interact with each other and
(18:02):
talk about the game as two kind of famous quarterbacks,
one in a legendary star and one even though Greg
will try to stop it, who will go into the
Hall of Fame one day.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Just a great program.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Well, I think both of them.
Speaker 6 (18:16):
I saw a clip going around of them just kind
of admiring and in a real quarterbacky way. Gino Smith
like play action fakes, like Peyton Manning, who is just
like the master of the play action fake was just like, oh, Gino,
like he has been going to play action fake school,
and it is one of the things I like about you.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
You know, he's good at all the like.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
One hundred and ten yards stay.
Speaker 7 (18:40):
If there was night to pipe down, just a tad
maybe even three to four percent of this topic.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
I mean he goes back to New York and wins
a game. Pete Carroll goes to New York and wins literally.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
But you there is no going back to the Giants
to win the game. It's not a thing.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Did seem testy against the Giants?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Though?
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Did I seem to be something there?
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Little he was somebody trying to give him a double
acl tair on a tackle on the sideline.
Speaker 6 (19:04):
He's yeah, that I hope that this isn't something that
you hear afterwards that they do tests and m Ryan
ends up turning into something more like a sprain that
that keeps him out the bye week seems well timed.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
What a couple of quick last things.
Speaker 6 (19:19):
Just like the Giants attempted to passes over ten yards,
they attempted to That's that's insane. For the amount of
dropbacks that Daniel Jones had thirty four plus the eleven sacks,
so that's plus the scrambles, he dropped back almost fifty
times and he didn't have time to throw more than
ten yards down the field.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
That's a catastrophe.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
Tennessee alum Peyton Manning losing his mind that they're not
even finding any way to get Jalen High involved, the
guy who's an absolute playmaker, just just a nightmare evening.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
It's a mess.
Speaker 7 (19:53):
It's hard to get high It involved though when I mean,
I don't know tonight, especially your quarterback Scott right half
of a second half of millimeter to throw the ball
like I don't.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
If he'd have good coaching there, there there's a way
to clean this stuff up during the week. It's gonna
be a huge test for Dable and the entire Coach
of the Year platform.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Let's be honest, well, let's let's be real. Coach of
the year.
Speaker 6 (20:17):
I said, how defense matters a lot in terms of
the schedule you play. I think if you looked at
old Coach of the Year winners, I think schedule matters
a lot. We've had some Dick Geron's and Matt Naggi's
and it just guys that get to eleven wins off
of a weird schedule. One tiny fly in the ointment
for the seahawkss I've been noticing this year. The last
one for me is just Jackson Smith and Jigba. They
(20:37):
tried to get him involved. Six targets, five yards couldn't
be the guy in the.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (20:45):
And so many receivers have come into the league, Mark
Mark you you smartly mentioned Michael Wilson today. So many
receivers coming to the league flying, and they've really struggled
to get any production or anything going from me. And
I think they really tried tonight and it just it
wasn't happening.
Speaker 7 (20:57):
That's like the eighth summer long narrative that we basted
ourselves in. I did on the Jackson Smith and Jigba thing,
and it's not panning out. I don't know if maybe
we should be, you know, putting a box in the
summer because it's just it's becoming embarrassing.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
We will a couple of years, a couple of years,
we'll just shut it down for the summer. See in September, everybody,
big old wave. All right, that's it for this game.
Let's now pivot now and get you caught up to
date on all of the news.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I kind of like that as a segment.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
I feel like I brought it up and then we
never actually do it because it doesn't sound overly pleasant.
But I feel like in October check in and what
we were most wrong about in terms of what we
were talking about ceaselessly and August and into September. Things
that surprised us that could be something.
Speaker 6 (21:48):
The Steelers offense is up there. They are dead last,
and any paper playing I was buying it too. Almost
anything that happened in the preseason now that I'm thinking
about it, like c J. Stroud was the quarterback people
were worried about. Everyone thrilled.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
It's so much better with the final week's your summer.
Just savor them.
Speaker 6 (22:08):
Meaning on the table and in the fantasy spectacular is
my one main thing to draft Damien Pierce. I guess
it looks a little better after this last week. I'm
not totally giving up, but that.
Speaker 7 (22:17):
Look, the Steelers can still win twelve games. I'm not
completely that.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
The door is not closed. The door is not closed.
Let's do some news. The door is speaking of the
Steelers pivot.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Bro That was good.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Kenny Pickett suffered a knee injury in that dreadful loss
uh this week to the Texans. Wow, look at all
these things tying together, and it seemed like a bad
injury at the time. But here's the good news. Rap
Sheet reports that Pickett has a bone bruise in his
(22:54):
knee could miss Week five against the Ravens. It's also
a muscle according to Rappaport, but he's it's in play
that he could be on the field this week, but
they have a buy in week six. So there's a
pretty decent chance we're gonna see Mitch Trubisky this weekend,
but also a pretty decent chance unless unless Mitch Trubisky
(23:18):
balls out, that Kenny Pickett will be back on the field,
as opposed to a worst case scenario which seemed in
play when he went down on Sunday.
Speaker 7 (23:26):
It's like the inverse scenario from a year ago where
we were waiting and knowing that Mitch Trubisky would have
essentially at some point be benched or injured or remove
from the lineup, and you come into this season with
these glowing reports of Kenny Pickett that I fell for
like a complete rube based off of July action in
(23:47):
August action, and he's not looked apart, and so I
have to question like if he if there were no
injury or no injury, like would he be on a leash?
Because I thought that Tomlin's comments after that game, we're
very Mike Tomlin. It was just like, yeah, major changes
could be coming, and really no one's safe. And it's like,
I think that when you say that, you're not talking
about your left defensive tackle. You're talking about the quarterback situation.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Hmmm.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
I think all right, I think Mitch Trubisky is an upgrade.
Speaker 6 (24:17):
The smallest hill I'll ever die on is that Mitch
Trubisky when he came back in for the Steelers last year,
played pretty well. It's very similar to my Andy Dalton
was sneaky good for the Saints last year, which which
is another one that feel like.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
It's acts like an an hill, right, yeah.
Speaker 6 (24:34):
It is, but it's aging, okay, because like Derek Carr
looks a hell of a lot like Andy Dalton are
worse right now in that offense. I was just like,
I'm just saying, it's not a good situation. I think
Trubisky could be an upgrade on what Picket is now
now how much of it is just the offense is
totally broken. Pickett's taken a huge step back from where
Pickett was even as a rookie. I mean, that's it's
not even arguable. He's really struggling. So I think Trubisky
(24:57):
has been around, could be an up great and if
he plays well enough, I think Tomlin is I guess
I don't know what the word is practical enough that
he would keep Trubisky.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
In blame Canada.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
In other news, Hey, the Cults, they're engine toward getting
Jonathan Taylor back on the field, Shane Stike, And we're
pivoting now to talking to the team of Zeus TL,
who were covered with great fanfare along with the Los
Angeles Rams on NFL Plus in our atn Game of
the Week.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Which is what is the word? It is.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Pristine for the senses.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
No, I'm saying like it is.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
It is a show that is indebted to the Manning
cast but also cast its own shadow.
Speaker 6 (25:45):
How about that it's not derivative, right, familiar? Right, it's
it's like a two and a half hour shorter. It's
not a live game that we're watching.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
Anyway, We did Rams Cults check that out on NFL Plus.
Shane Stiken, the coach of the Colts, said there's a
chance Jonathan Taylor could be on the field at Week
five against the Titans.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Of course, he started the league the season.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
On the pup list with an ankle injury that may
or may not still be a thing. Everything, of course,
is connected to a very gnarly contract dispute between Taylor
and management. The Colts opened up the twenty one day
practice window, which means they have three weeks to kind
of get him onto the field, and it does seem
(26:30):
like that could happen as soon as this week. Stiken
said there could be yeah, when asked about the chances
that he plays.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Sunday.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
So that's great news for the Colts, and I like
Zach Moss, but he's not Jonathan Taylor.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
I'm shocked.
Speaker 6 (26:49):
I mean, I was not expecting this because I want
to hear from Jonathan Taylor first, actually, before I get
too excited about it. Jonathan Taylor has not spoken to
the media since July, I believe, and so we haven't
really known what's going on. But I just was expecting
this to stay as ugly as possible and if they
get him back, I mean, this this division's wide open.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
To that point.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
Greg The reporting out there as recently as last week
was that Taylor was still digging in his heels, So
maybe either that was erroneous reporting or something had changed
between then and now. But it's certainly Listen, Taylor has
as frustrated as he is Mark, he has a reason
to get back on the field as well, because he
(27:34):
is playing, trying to get paid at some point, and
just disappearing for the whole.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Year is not going to work for him at all.
So guess it makes sense.
Speaker 7 (27:44):
This tells me like two things. One that the Colts,
who didn't seem like too hot on trading him or
doing anything with him, and like you got ownership, sort
of just digging in their heels as you say, Like
there were no major trade offers that ever came, even
behind the scenes. So he's not able to go anywhere else.
And if he doesn't play, or if he's not physically
(28:04):
able to perform by week six, then he loses in
accrued year on his rookie contract and he's not a.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Free agent after the season.
Speaker 7 (28:11):
So I think he's you know, I don't know, always
being guided by his agent and stuff, but I think
there'd be a massive motivation to get back on the field,
finish out the season if you have nowhere, if you
can't go anywhere else, and then go to free agency.
I mean, they're not going to franchise him with this situation.
Speaker 6 (28:28):
A lot of motivation too, I think because he heard
that I took him in my running back draft and
they were like that would Mark and Dan really made
fun of my guy Greg for taking me and Kamara
and Bijon in the running back draft.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
I want to prove Greg right, that's just what.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Do they call it when they put the pig on
the thing and it spins with the apple on him out?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Is that the spit roast? That was Greg?
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Yeah, that was Greg when we did the running back draft.
Just a tough not from us, even Greg. A lot
of the criticism coming from outside the walls of your fortress, Well.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
It was put up to them.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
You didn't get that right.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
There was a public poll.
Speaker 7 (29:03):
I mean, you can blame the two of us, but
like the public largely weighed in and they deemed the
results not the two of us.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah, I mean, you gotta trust the public.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
They should probably make.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Decisions in elections. Forget about it.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
We should probably stop honking and check who we all
drafted and see where that is. Eric Roberts behind the
virtual glass, can you check in on that and get
us that info at some point? Also heading back to
the field for Week five, Desmond Ritter, the Atlanta Falcons
quarterback who has struggled through much of this season and
(29:40):
really did not do himself any favors in London and
a tough loss to the Jaguars. It's led to a
lot of heat around Arthur Smith to make a change
of QB. But Smith is standing by his guy. Here
is Smith's comments on the situation.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Just as a follow up.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
If you did, is this Desmond still your starter to
be clear by court?
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Look?
Speaker 5 (30:02):
Absolutely, and I wouldn't be sitting there and get on
that antificating about what went on in the game if
we're making a.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Change wearing right now.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
But you know, and we saw it happened on the
sidelines with Mac Collins, which is actually even worse when
you watched it on replay where he missed Hollands and
then he went to dap him up and Hollands gave
him a look like are you even kidding me?
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Right now? Bro? He's losing that locker.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Room and Smith risks losing the locker room as well.
So this is I would think guys that this is
this is it for Desmond Ridder in terms of play
well this week, or you're gonna take it almost out
of Smith's hands because he knows they'll have to make
the change to stave off a revolt. That's kind of
how these things tend to go.
Speaker 7 (30:41):
Yeah, I mean, I think the thing is like if
you get a coach or an organization that's like sold
or bought into like draft pedigree, Well he doesn't have that.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
It's it.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
There wasn't much munch.
Speaker 7 (30:52):
There's not a lot of stakes in Desmond Ridder outside
the fact that you know, we got glowing remarks from
the owner and the coach all off season, and we've
got and it's fair to give him a test and
he's failing, and he's letting the team down a pretty
talented roster. And I just think it's like if you
had know him behind him, like when we talk about
pulling Burrow, and I'm really with you on the concept
of why they might do That's like the problem with
(31:12):
him is they've got nothing behind them. But Taylor Heinekey
just literally a year ago, came in around mid season
and brought a little bit of life. He's imperfect, I
get it, but he brought some juice and some energy
to the Commanders and he's the same guy and It's
like I think Taylor Heineke and this offense is almost
a much what must watch sooner than later, and it's
they're a weird team because they didn't take a bye
(31:35):
after London. They have to go right back and face
the Texans, and it's like, I wonder if there was
a buy and they had more time to marinate in this,
that maybe they make a change or do we just.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Need one more terrible ridd or start.
Speaker 6 (31:45):
And that's because of them they request that usually there
is a bye. The only reason they wouldn't have a
buye is they say we don't want it then. And
now they face a team that I'll save for Wednesday.
But this team's kind of entering my house just saying,
maybe it's injuring the hoo.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
Stick a pin in it, Greg, I like that. Let's
go through some other injuries from around the league. Coming
out of Sunday tough, tough, really one of the worst
Sundays in recent memory for the Patriots, the worst blowout
of the Belichick era, and their two best young defensive
players go out with injuries. Matthew Judan is out indefinitely
(32:23):
with a biceps injury. It's a lower bicep tendon tear.
He's gonna miss multiple weeks. He could land on injured reserve,
so it's kind of a wait and see when they
get Judon back, if they get him at all. Also,
Christian Gonzalez, who's really immediately stepped in and become kind
of a stud cornerback for this team, he went down
awkwardly on his shoulder and he is out indefinitely with
(32:46):
a shoulder injury. With this also, we don't know exactly
how long he's going to be out, but indefinitely is
never what you want to hear. And this is the
defensive player of the month last weekend as a rookie.
So double setback Greggie. And it's kind of coming from
all sides for Belichick right now.
Speaker 6 (33:03):
This is you know, the biggest, you know, most unique
test of Belichick I think since he's been in New
England in terms of his job security. Now, there was
a minute when they were zero and two in two
thousand and one. They were already chattering about it a
little bit in Boston because he started five and eleven
then zero and two. But this is everything happening all
at once. They do have the softest part of their
(33:23):
schedule coming up. In theory, it's such a hard schedule,
but they have the Saints and the Raiders. But the
Saints of the Raiders are also looking at the Patriots
and being like, ooh, we got a soft part of
our schedule coming up.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
It's the Patriots.
Speaker 7 (33:34):
Yeah, it's a defensive built team, which I innately don't trust.
That lost Marcus Jones, Jack Jones, Jonathan Jones, everyone with
the last name of Jones.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
You've now lost Gonzales.
Speaker 7 (33:44):
Judon had thirty two sacks and thirty five games as
a really good, you know, free agent pickup. But this
is their identity and they're losing a piece by piece,
and like that offense under duress is an eyesore.
Speaker 6 (33:55):
It's possibly their two best players of the team, judah
On and Gonzales.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Right now, that's great, not good, not good.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
Other injury news rap Sheet reports that Justin Herbert broke
a finger on his non throwing hand in that Week
four win over the Raiders. He not a pleasant thing,
but the idea is that it is not a serious injury.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
They have a bye in Week five, which is ideal.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
A few of the Week five you're Cleveland Browns mark
another team that perfectly time by for them as well,
with their quarterback dealing with some health issues. So he
gets two weeks before the Cowboys on Monday Night Football, and.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
We'll see where he is by then. I would imagine
that he will play.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
And I just want to give a shout out to
Justin Herbert because I did talk about earlier in the season,
you know, wanting to see him with those big dagger
plays to put teams away and take his team to
the finish line.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
And we kind of glossed over it a little bit.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
Just a beautiful deep strike on third and ten to
put that game away after the Santa Samuel bizarre step
out of bounds after the interception late game. So that
was a money throw from a banged up Herbert and
you love to see it. And they're back to five
hundred and hopefully they'll have him on the field when
they play again. Also out Tron Armstead, the Dolphins left tackle.
(35:11):
He will not play in Week five against the Giants.
This is an injury plagued player, but a great player
when he's on the field. McDaniel said that he believes
that Armstead will play again this season, but this seems
like a week to week injury.
Speaker 6 (35:26):
When you say they're going to play again this season.
That always is very concerning, especially for a player that
I feel like is an injury or two away from,
you know, wondering if this is worth it because he
he's crazy. On the injury report, they list Tehran Armstead
with like four different injuries. I've never seen it before.
It's like knee, ankle, shoulder, It's like a bunch of
(35:47):
different things, and this seem one seems serious. It sounded
like a just reading between the lines that it's probably
month or month at least, and they're not the same
without him.
Speaker 7 (35:57):
Yeah, it was such a I mean it was you know,
vague in terms of any sort of timeline. He had
left knee surgery in the off season. Your right, He's
always banged up, and they were so different without him
a year ago, and you just wonder how many people
they can lose on the offensive line, and like he
is sort of a Jenga piece for them. They have
Kendall Lamb kind of a quality player, but Toron harm
(36:19):
Armstead is sort of irreplaceable.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
Other injury news, we saw this coming and you heard
from the comments from Sean McDermott that it was not
good news around tre Dave's white. But the veteran cornerback
did indeed suffer torn achilles in the Bills this week
four win over those Dolphins, so his season is over.
He's now suffered season ending injuries in two of his
last three years. He tore a ACL in twenty twenty one.
(36:42):
So you lose an All Pro and that team got
worse and they have to find a way to make
it work without him.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Do they have the dogs to back them up? GREGI?
Speaker 6 (36:53):
I mean they have a first round pick, Kyrie Elm
who's been a healthy scratch up points this year in
that they could really use to step up. No, I
would say cornerback was one of the thinnest positions on
their team. They have Toron Johnson who's a good slot corner.
Christian Benford is this late round pick from a year
ago who's stepped up and has been solid. But that's
one of their thinner spots and players injured. It's it's something,
(37:17):
it's something to attack if you're Buffalo or playing Buffalo.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
And guess what.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
The trade deadline is a little less than one month away,
and we talked about it, Mark, you and I were
in lockstep on it entering the season. The urgencies through
the roof for this Bills team, this core. Uh, if
you think you need it, go get it, go use
use some draft capital and add some depth to that
secondary if if need be so.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
They that feels like a potential.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Area Giants could be sellers.
Speaker 6 (37:46):
A Dorri Jackson is a guy on their team who
I feel like could still have some good football in them.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Might be you're the GM. You have the GM. All right,
let's do.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
That later this month.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
Yeah, and just button up a couple other things. So
Chase Claypool, you know the drama there about the wide
receiver traded for the number thirty two overall pick just
last year at the trade deadline, buyer beware. And now
because of comments he's made in general, lack of effort
at other times on the field and just being a knucklehead,
(38:19):
has fallen out of favor with the Bears. And then
some weird messaging because everything with the Bears is just
a little messed up these days or a lot messed up,
where Ibra Flu's first kind of let the media know
that it was the team's or is the player's decision
not to be at the Broncos game, and then it
was clarified that it was the team's decision and Ibra
(38:42):
Flu said Monday that Claypool will remain away from the
team ahead of the Week five matchup, but the Commanders
hear something from fluse.
Speaker 5 (38:48):
To correct the record. For Chase Claypool. We did tell
him not to be here for the weekend, including the game.
We told him to be an active and active on Saturday,
you know, and this morning we informed him he's not
going to be here this week for the game as well,
(39:09):
and we just feel that's best for the team at
this time. So and again Ryan and I have informed
him of that and that's where it is. So we
just feel that's best for the team right now.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
Ryan is Ryan Poles, the GM who is probably having
nightmares about that trade, which I think there, you know,
I think you could say the San Francisco trade for
Trey Lance is maybe the worst trade of the decade
so far, or near the top the Russell Wilson trade.
The returns are not are dreadful. We mentioned Jamal Adams
that trade was not great for the Seahawks, but when
(39:43):
you just look at what they got, what they gave
up even in the moment, it was like, that's a
little rich for a guy that has been a little
spotty as a player, and now what it's turned into,
which is a three ring circus. One of the worst
trades of the decade, right near the top of the
list for me.
Speaker 7 (39:58):
Anyway, Yeah, I throw some of the cults transactions for
various failed veteran quarterbacks over the past couple of years
that didn't go well. But I mean I'm watching eber
flues during that thing, and it's just like sometimes if
as you get higher and higher up in management, in
this case, it's like you're going up the food chain
and it's like, yeah, it's not so bad to be
(40:18):
a coordinator where no one's asking me the tough questions
you got to see. I mean, just watching his body
leguage having to go up and deliver like a essentially
an editorial retraction. I mean, it's just an uncomfortable situation.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Feel good, No, like that.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
That was a tough scene.
Speaker 6 (40:33):
I mean, Claypole just probably goes without saying, but he gone,
He'll be for I'm gonna put the over under on
a twenty twenty four to sixth.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Just a hard conditional seventh.
Speaker 7 (40:47):
I have a prediction where he goes okay, because there
was reports for me and over the weekend that one
team like that. I mean, I'm sure there's others, but
we're very actively looking for wide receivers, which was the
Carolina Panthers.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
So maybe they think they can bring that guys.
Speaker 7 (41:01):
I'm not saying I'm not saying it's a magical leverpole,
just that I think that I could see the team
that's desperate for help.
Speaker 4 (41:09):
The guy that is a team that needs talent, But
do they need like a cancer in their locker room,
which I get the vibes Claypool because.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
I don't think he.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
I don't think Mike Tomlin was a huge fan of
Chase Claypool the person either.
Speaker 7 (41:24):
So I don't think any team is saying, you know,
what we really need is a cancer to destroy our
locker room.
Speaker 4 (41:28):
So as a surprise the Panthers, it's like that's a
little bit of a sensitive situation with the rookie there
and stuff.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
I wouldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
But you know, I mean.
Speaker 6 (41:39):
Crazy trades like they put the graphic up tonight when
you saw the old lock to fant touchdown. By the way,
I'm still here in the Chris Westling podcast studio, and
Noah Fan was going down the siland I was remembering
our friend Chris going wild for a little Noah Fan
catching passes from Drew Locke back when they were in Denver.
I went through an article I loved you, lock, but
(42:00):
they got Drew Locke Noahfense Shelby Harris in the number
five overall pick who turned into Devin Witherspoon, and then
they what a trade?
Speaker 2 (42:09):
What a trade? How about that?
Speaker 4 (42:11):
Yeah, when Devin Witherspoon's playing like he played tonight, that's
gonna quiet all the Jayalen Carter stuff as well if
they nailed that pick all right. Finally, in the news,
did not see this coming. Nobody was tracking this. Jameson
Williams was totally off the radar after his gambling suspension,
but the league amended it's gambling policy on Friday in
(42:31):
a new a news dump uh, and it led to
Williams having his suspension changed by nature.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Of the new wording to the policy.
Speaker 4 (42:41):
Uh, he's a first time offender caught betting on a
non NFL game from inside team facilities, so that suspension
now with the rules, it was six now it's two
and he's already missed four, so that kind of sucks.
But the good news is he's now activated, and he's
and he's part of the team, and everyone wants to
(43:02):
see what happens with Jameson Williams in this offense because
you know, he's probably the most physically gifted wide receiver
on that team. It's just now, where is what is
his role? Like what kind of player is he as
a professional, because his rookie year was mostly compromised by
rehab from a knee injury and finding his way.
Speaker 6 (43:21):
I know this is tempting, Mark, but because we do
work for the NFL, but I think it's different for
league employees. And so your plans to go to the
Chargers facility tomorrow and Costa Mesa and start wagering on cricket,
you know, a non NFL sport, don't do it.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Don't do it, can't do it. We need you foolish.
It would be foolish, Mark.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
That's great, Council. I'll follow that. I know we have
an off data roll.
Speaker 7 (43:45):
I I do feel in a way because like the
whole point of this was like to try to raise
awareness among players, which, like I didn't know this.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Rule or that rule.
Speaker 7 (43:53):
It's like, Okay, why did they need to announce this now?
And maybe maybe it's just like they went through the process,
they came up with the results and here we go.
But it brings these players and Jamison Williams primarily onto
a sexy team back into our world where you can
spend two games telling us why he's back and why
the policy has changed, and all the players see it
(44:14):
and hear about it, and they found a way to
double down on awareness for an issue that they don't
want hanging around NFL locker rooms. So it's like you
don't have to wait till next offseason for like four more,
like you know, Dingleberry's to do the same thing and
get caught and find you know, they were like these
rash of fines. Now it's like, let's get into everyone's
head that this is the rule, and like this was
(44:34):
a great way to do it in the middle of
the season when everyone's talking about these players in this
whole entire thing.
Speaker 4 (44:39):
Counterpoint, roll out the policy in a clean way in
the offseason, and then everybody knows what the situation is
and that guy like Jameson Williams is back in week
three instead of week five.
Speaker 6 (44:51):
Counterpoint, This guy, Mark Sessler gets it and he used
Dingleberry in a big spot.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
One guy that didn't get it.
Speaker 4 (44:59):
I don't know if we've touched on this on this
show was Greg Rosenthal, the ATM running backstraft back in June.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Let's let's take a look at that graphic.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
See where we're at now now that we're working at Ober.
Check it out on YouTube. Mark I recall having the
first overall pick, which is an immense advantage for the
Cesstag and he had Christian McCaffrey, Saquon Barkley, Derrick Henry,
and Ramandre Stevenson. Dan uh had actually I think Greg
(45:29):
had the second pick, as I recall, and he took
Bjon Robinson, Alvin Kamara, Jonathan Taylor, and Aaron Jones, and
then Dan took Nick Chubb, Austin Eckler, Josh Jacobs, and
Berice Hall. Interesting, it's it's kind of interesting. Boys, that
is anybody doing?
Speaker 7 (45:47):
I don't think there's a runaway here. Now, there's a
lot of unavailable players.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Is this?
Speaker 4 (45:53):
Oh no, is this like gonna be used in negotiations
against running backs? Because I'm not seeing a lot of
major values here.
Speaker 6 (46:00):
I think Mark wins because he's the one that has
McCaffrey right.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
And Bson's been great, Bon's been great.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
Yeh, I've been I've been undercut by injuries to Chubb
and and Eckler unfortunately. And Jacobs finally did something, and
Halls had moments, but he got Aaron Rodgers, so that
was that was a tough one. I stand by my draft,
but Real Football had a harsh reality call for my group.
Speaker 7 (46:24):
I wouldn't put this back out on Twitter, slash x
or wherever to gain new opinions on this variant.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
All right, good stuff.
Speaker 4 (46:35):
We will be out of your hair for a day,
but don't worry. We'll be back on Wednesday with another EP,
another NFL plus EP Thursday Thursday Week five preview TNF
free cap.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
A lot of good stuff coming away. Thanks for hanging around.
He's the call.
Smith that to his right.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
End zone shot cap.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
For the Scorn.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
First and goal one on one at the top with
DK metcalp.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Here is Horker for the touchdown.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
This's what's back tap the other.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Way Witherspoon, Devin wetherspoone cuts.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Back one a night for the rookie.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
You think they love him in Seattle.
Speaker 5 (00:44):
How about six points touchdown Witherspoon.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
No flags.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
You know, typically with these Island games, we'd like to
give you that little buff of highlights and we'll mix in,
you know, one from one of the losing team and then.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
A couple from the winning team.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
But some games you gotta go triple play for the victor,
and this was that case for the Seattle Seahawks who
went to the Medalands and really put the Giant season.
I don't want to get crazy here, and we'll get
to it, but to me kind of on ice in
some ways, with a twenty four to three win in
(01:28):
front of seventy five let's say about sixty six thousand
furious Giants fans and about ten thousand delirious Seattle fans,
or at least that's how it sounded as they took
over that building in the swamp late in the game.
A dominating performance by the defense of the Seahawks. Bobby
Wagner one of four Seahawks to have two sacks in
(01:52):
this game. I believe they had eleven total, and it
was that pick six that put the game away. But
in many ways this was really as one sided as
it gets, even if the score wasn't quite as dramatic
as one would say for a total boat race.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Dan Hans is here with.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Greg Rosenthal and Mark Sessler on a Monday night. Gregy,
you love your Seahawks, you love your Geno Smith, but
this is like, this is a beautiful win for.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Pete Carroll's team.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
And you could tell by Carl's reaction on the sideline
this is right up his alley.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
He's going to sleep well.
Speaker 6 (02:29):
Tonight, yeah, because all he's wanted for what eight years
now is to bring it back, bring it back to
those legion of boom defenses that they celebrated in twenty thirteen.
Just a week ago, they had a big celebration in
Seattle as all the players coming back except for one
player who's still on the team that they were celebrated,
(02:50):
and that's Bobby Wagner and him being one of the
guys with two sacks to me was fitting because they
had eleven sacks. Just it's just bonkers in a good
defense this year. I think they have the pieces to
get better. Stomping on incompetent opposition is a sign of
a good defense. But Wagner is part of a second
level of a defense that got those sacks. You mentioned
(03:13):
that the four guys got too. Jordan Brooks was one
of them. Devin Witherspoon was one of them. He had
the game of the year I think any rookie has
had on defense, and then Nuoso had the other two.
It was just crazy, and they have playmakers on those
second level. And when you're playing the Giants, everyone looks
like they have defensive playmakers because they can't block anyone.
Speaker 7 (03:33):
Yeah, I mean, it was the perfect storm of like
absolutely celebrating what the Seahawks did, but you are facing
a Giants line that already arguably the worst line in
the league, had no Andrew Thomas, they lost their starting
center John Michael Schmidt's in the middle of the game
early on, and it just seemed like a fiery, angry
(03:56):
boulder rolling downhill because it became almost an absurd.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Sport event to me to watch because it's, you.
Speaker 7 (04:02):
Know, it's like you're not gonna win this game, like
you're just simply We're watching Daniel Jones, who is a
massive athletic man being punished over and over, and it's
like every couple seconds, another takedown, another sack, And I
don't really remember a game like that because this was
only one sack away from the NFL record of twelve
and this is a very kind of rare event, and
(04:23):
it like for the Giants, I think, like you know,
Dan and I were both friends with a ton of
Giants fans. It's like the hope is receding and disappearing
with each drive that crumbles into nothingness.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
There's no explosive plays.
Speaker 7 (04:34):
And you can criticize Daniel Jones, I don't really because
it's like he yes, he's indecisive, Yes he's getting nothing
done back there, but go find me a quarterback that
can survive behind the offensive line as it currently stands
for the Giants.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, and you have.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
It's interesting and it's crazy because no one got more praise,
and rightfully so, the way Brian Dable took this Giants
team from dumpster fire under Joe Judge to a really
co adhesive, strong willed team that played tough every week.
Even the games the Giants didn't win last year, many
of them. They were competitive in the losses. They get
(05:10):
to the playoffs, didn't they got to win in the playoffs.
And you know this team now a year later, they
look Dare I say poorly coached or is it the
personnel that's that much worse this year?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I don't know. And I think when you saw a.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Great job and it's one of the benefits of these
primetime games because you have such great coverage and so
many cameras and you know they're capturing everything, so many
cutaways to the Giants fans because and just they're stunned,
they're angry because this was not supposed to be this season.
And I think that's what you're trying to figure out,
(05:47):
how this team that with the same coaching staff when
everybody was saying they are on the right track and
they're a smart, well coached team that's getting better. Now
they look like one of the worst teams in football
through four weeks. And I think that's been one of
the biggest surprises of the league for me.
Speaker 6 (06:02):
They had a shot of a fan with a brown
paper bag on and I think this was such a
perfect night for what you were talking about. I don't
think Brian Dables a bad coach, but there was one
team in this game that was missing both starting tackles
and were playing like late round afterthoughts at tackles and
then lost both their starting guards in this game and
(06:27):
won the game twenty four to three. Now, the Seahawks
offense was no great shakes in this game either. They
missed some opportunities. They didn't top three hundred yards. They
scored I guess seventeen points as an offense, but they
looked like they made sense. They had positive plays. They
certainly had, you know, a quarterback who wasn't making as
(06:47):
many negative plays. But I'm with you, Mark, this wasn't
a game that to me, was on Daniel Jones for
the most part. And I'm always happy to blame Daniel
Jones for things because when he was at the back
of his drop on most of those sacks, the pressure
was there.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
It was instant like this.
Speaker 6 (07:05):
His first fumble came from one of the many plays
where he avoided a sack, and that was because there
was an absolutely free rusher. But it wasn't like a
creative defensive blitz. It was Uchenna Nuosu, their edge rusher
who was just completely unblocked and they only rushed four
on that play, so it was like a total meltdown
(07:26):
and you lose your center at the beginning of the game.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
That hurts.
Speaker 6 (07:28):
But I think you can give credit to the Seahawks
for like, look, they're making it work Shane Waldron and
making their offense very functional and the Giants can't. So
that's personnel, but that's coaching too.
Speaker 7 (07:40):
Yeah, I mean I think there's like you ask us
he is it a Brian table thing? I mean I
give him credit for last year. I mean coaching his
human too, and like the locker room presence and who
he was was like embraced for a lot of good
reasons and he brought results. But right now they have
PFF's thirty first ranked offense and defense going into tonight.
I don't know what's going to happen to the offense
(08:02):
after that, And I'd argue that the special teams has
been equally a huge problem. That's the three things that
make up your organization and your success. Over the course
of the campaign, they've been getting They've scored three points
in the entire first quarter. In the first quarter all
season long, they've been outscored seventy seven to nine in
the first half, So that changes everything you do coming
out of half. And like they've had some of the
worst quarters we've seen by any team. And it's just like,
(08:25):
to me, it's the it's like the the I don't
know what to do about this, but these teams should
not be treating us on national television.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I don't care what time of year it.
Speaker 6 (08:32):
Is, Sunday night football in two weeks, I know that
it's even four times in six weeks, and it's it's
not it's just like it's for their fans and Jets
fans you know this too.
Speaker 7 (08:40):
It's just like it's we've got to find a solution
to this. That's a separate topic. But it's just like
we're we're two quarters into this game, and I'm thinking,
this is utterly absurd to put in front of an
international audience.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
With the two New York teams and it's both of them,
and it's doubled up and they're both having bad years
so far, and yeah, City.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Such a beautiful voice.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
It's a sad.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
New York City and I'm wearing my Knickerbockers hat today.
The New York Knicks, the NBA, the Yankees are out
of the playoffs this year. The Mets didn't make it,
had one of the more dissipate pointing years ever for
their big budget, and the Jets had Aaron Rodgers and
then we know what happened there, and the Giants.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
What's happening here? Now?
Speaker 4 (09:32):
We got to go in all on the Knicks, and
I guess the Rangers and whatever major League soccer clubs
happened to be in the Tri state area.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I'm not you got to ed.
Speaker 6 (09:40):
The WNBA finals team right now, the Liberty versus Tom
Brady's Aces.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
So okay, do you stay on top of that if
you can for me and just let me know because
those flags fly forever as well. That's true, but it
is it's so frustrating because, like from a New York
sports fan perspective, it's been a pretty dark ride in
the wilderness for you know, most of the century for
the New York sports teams and for the NFL teams.
(10:06):
This was supposed to be like a great year of
growth and maybe even the Jets are a potential Super
Bowl team, and the Giants were going to hang in
this beastly NFC East And let's face it, like what
I said at the top of the show is, yeah,
this feels with the schedule the way it is they have.
They're in Miami next week, and I think, like you said,
(10:27):
they got Buffalo Sunday Night Football the week after that,
and you know you're staring down the barrel at one
to five and a good night nurse. So Bill, the
Giants and Dables got a huge job ahead of him
now to try to keep this locker room from not
completely burning down under all the disappointment. And for the
Seattle side of things, yeah, I would be willing to
(10:49):
stick a fork in the Giants at this stage. It
just had that feeling to me that it's just not
going to be their year. And for the Seahawks, you know,
they had one really bad loss greg one against a
Rams team that now in retrospect, was not nearly as
big an upset as it seemed at the time because
the Rams turned out to be pretty damn feisty this year.
(11:09):
But since then, they beat the Lions in Week two,
they took care of business against the Panthers last week,
they whipped the Giants this week, and now they go
to Cincinnati and look at you, off to a what
are you?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Four? And oh four? O? Okay, well I'm right behind.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
You, baby. They were an underdog at the time.
Speaker 6 (11:29):
I think eventually all the casuals like me kept putting
money on them and they became the favorite.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
So and with this.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Pass rush against a week offensive line or a quarterback
who's compromised like they're getting next week again, Joe Burrow,
he could be a tasty lunch for this defense the
way they played today.
Speaker 6 (11:48):
Yeah, and they get a bye week before that. I
think that's huge they get they're getting into the buy
three and one. They've had almost as many injuries as
any team in football, so the bye week is big
for them. They have their offensive line, but the pass
rush and the defense in general has come along. And
Pete Carroll defenses, even throughout this six or seven years
(12:09):
of mediocrity, usually start out terrible. There's actually d VOI's
stats about this where September they're always bottom five, and
then they improve and they end up being average. They
usually end up being a little better than average down
the stretch. And I think there's a very real reason
for it this year. It's their two cornerbacks. Riek Willin
missed a couple of weeks. He was back in there today,
(12:30):
almost had an interception himself, and then Devin Witherspoon. That's
one of the best games I've ever seen out of
a cornerback ever forget to run.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
It was just fun to watch.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
I know, like it wasn't all in coverage, you'd have
to go watch all the coverage snaps, but in terms
of just making plays on the ball with those sacks,
those instinctual plays on one that was gonna be a
trick play where Paris Campbell was gonna throw it and
he recognized it immediately, and some of the tackles were
just crazy. That's not what you think of when you
(13:06):
think of a cornerback. But Devin Witherspoon is just a playmaker.
And even in his first game, I said he was
the main character of the game, and it was like
a lot bad and some good. He's just like he
pops off the screen. He was incredible last week. He
was even better this week. And he seems the embodiment
of whatever Pete Carroll wants in a defender like he's
(13:26):
Seattle all the way. I feel like a lot of
Weatherspoon jerseys were sold tonight.
Speaker 7 (13:30):
I also like that from a broadcasting angle, because you're
righty popped off the screen that Troy Aikman had a
major win because before the ninety seven yard pick six occurred,
he mentioned Weatherspoon like probably six or seven times. At
one point he said, he reminds me of another twenty
one that I know, Dion Sanders with his profano.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
It's like he kept.
Speaker 7 (13:52):
Propping him up and then bang the pick six happened,
and like the announcers booth was relatively quiet, and you're like,
you know that Aikman's up there just being like, yes.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
I nailed that Gino Smith quiet game statistically, and he
left this game for a series and shout out. Drew
Locke came in connected with Noah fen on a catch
and run that really put the game in control for
Seattle for about a fifty yard game. I like that
taunting penalty Gino got. He is speaking of feisty. He's
(14:21):
feisty as well. I think he got admonished by Troy
by the way for that, which is like, yeah, the
quarterback he got to be a little more under control.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
But I didn't mind it.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Greg I thought Gino showing a little fire. He didn't
like the hit that led to his injury on the sideline,
and in general seemed to have.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
An issue with some of the Giants defenders.
Speaker 6 (14:39):
Well, yeah, I think there was a question whether that
was a late hit or a dirty hit. I started
just as he was going out of bounds and then
really continued and rolled up, and so he was angry
about that. And I think the reason he was so mad,
and this is just a guest they didn't guess on
the broadcast, was Tyler Lockett got hit in a very
similar fashion just as he was going out of bounds,
right when Gino came back in, and it was that
(15:00):
play where he ended up getting the penalty. And yeah,
they didn't they didn't need much out of him. He
actually made a couple of really nice plays moving inside
the pocket. But I felt like every nice play he
made or that they were making was getting called back
by penalty. I mean, they were sloppy as hell on offense.
And that's the thing where you're watching this game and
(15:21):
you're thinking, Man, if the Giants could either make some
big plays defensively or had any sort of an offense.
Seattle was leaving the door open, especially in the first
half of this game for the Giants to show up
because they were just making so many mental errors and
the Giants just weren't ready.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
I mean, it could have been if Eli, if Daniel
Jones doesn't throw the pick six, they're at the five
yard line. There you got a touchdown and go for two.
It's a three point game going into the fourth quarter.
So that was obviously a massive game ending swing the
pick six. The only person probably not smiling connected to
the Seahawks tonight, is Jamal Adams, who finally returned.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
This was actually tough to see.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Just it reminded me when he, you know, he had
his great moments with the Jets. Things got ugly, gets
traded there, and it's been a pretty rough ride after
that first season when he had all those sacks. And
he finally gets on the field after missing like a
year and a half, about a year and a quarter,
and on the first series he gets knead in the
helmet by Daniel Jones. Clearly woozy, it was the right
(16:23):
move to pull him out of the game. The Independent
specialist on the sideline ruled him out and he has
words with him, and it seemed to be how to
be separated from the independent neurologists.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Which I feel like is a first.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
I don't think I've ever seen like that situation play
out before, so that was a bit of a bummer
to see. And then my final takeaway on this rather
mundane game is I did a double screenwatch.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
On this one.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
I came back to the Manucass for the first time
in quite a while. It was very it was delightful.
I just it's such a great product and I'm going
to continue to screen it for the of the season.
They even had Will Ferrell on and that was nice.
And even our NFL media colleague Sean O'Hara stepped in
and made a joke about Eli putting his hands between
(17:12):
his legs that old center cornerback humor and stuff, waka wakast.
Speaker 7 (17:23):
I love Maning cast. I think like others have tried
to duplicate versions of it and you can't.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
But I would say this, but you mean, like us
on our NFL Plus Monday show.
Speaker 7 (17:32):
I would point to that as something that I'm hoping
we're not trying to duplicate with this we're.
Speaker 6 (17:36):
Doing recap today's one with Colts Rams was a delight
for the senses.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
I think it would be intellectually disingenuous to say that
our Monday stream is not somewhat not modeled after it,
but you know, visually it would be a striking coincidence.
And it's it's just there's something really to me, almost
wholesome about the two brothers just kind of watching this
game and seeing how they interact with each other and
(18:02):
talk about the game as two kind of famous quarterbacks,
one in a legendary star and one even though Greg
will try to stop it, who will go into the
Hall of Fame one day.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Just a great program.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Well, I think both of them.
Speaker 6 (18:16):
I saw a clip going around of them just kind
of admiring and in a real quarterbacky way. Gino Smith
like play action fakes, like Peyton Manning, who is just
like the master of the play action fake was just like, oh, Gino,
like he has been going to play action fake school,
and it is one of the things I like about you.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
You know, he's good at all the like.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
One hundred and ten yards stay.
Speaker 7 (18:40):
If there was night to pipe down, just a tad
maybe even three to four percent of this topic.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
I mean he goes back to New York and wins
a game. Pete Carroll goes to New York and wins literally.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
But you there is no going back to the Giants
to win the game. It's not a thing.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Did seem testy against the Giants?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Though?
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Did I seem to be something there?
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Little he was somebody trying to give him a double
acl tair on a tackle on the sideline.
Speaker 6 (19:04):
He's yeah, that I hope that this isn't something that
you hear afterwards that they do tests and m Ryan
ends up turning into something more like a sprain that
that keeps him out the bye week seems well timed.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
What a couple of quick last things.
Speaker 6 (19:19):
Just like the Giants attempted to passes over ten yards,
they attempted to That's that's insane. For the amount of
dropbacks that Daniel Jones had thirty four plus the eleven sacks,
so that's plus the scrambles, he dropped back almost fifty
times and he didn't have time to throw more than
ten yards down the field.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
That's a catastrophe.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
Tennessee alum Peyton Manning losing his mind that they're not
even finding any way to get Jalen High involved, the
guy who's an absolute playmaker, just just a nightmare evening.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
It's a mess.
Speaker 7 (19:53):
It's hard to get high It involved though when I mean,
I don't know tonight, especially your quarterback Scott right half
of a second half of millimeter to throw the ball
like I don't.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
If he'd have good coaching there, there there's a way
to clean this stuff up during the week. It's gonna
be a huge test for Dable and the entire Coach
of the Year platform.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Let's be honest, well, let's let's be real. Coach of
the year.
Speaker 6 (20:17):
I said, how defense matters a lot in terms of
the schedule you play. I think if you looked at
old Coach of the Year winners, I think schedule matters
a lot. We've had some Dick Geron's and Matt Naggi's
and it just guys that get to eleven wins off
of a weird schedule. One tiny fly in the ointment
for the seahawkss I've been noticing this year. The last
one for me is just Jackson Smith and Jigba. They
(20:37):
tried to get him involved. Six targets, five yards couldn't
be the guy in the.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (20:45):
And so many receivers have come into the league, Mark
Mark you you smartly mentioned Michael Wilson today. So many
receivers coming to the league flying, and they've really struggled
to get any production or anything going from me. And
I think they really tried tonight and it just it
wasn't happening.
Speaker 7 (20:57):
That's like the eighth summer long narrative that we basted
ourselves in. I did on the Jackson Smith and Jigba thing,
and it's not panning out. I don't know if maybe
we should be, you know, putting a box in the
summer because it's just it's becoming embarrassing.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
We will a couple of years, a couple of years,
we'll just shut it down for the summer. See in September, everybody,
big old wave. All right, that's it for this game.
Let's now pivot now and get you caught up to
date on all of the news.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I kind of like that as a segment.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
I feel like I brought it up and then we
never actually do it because it doesn't sound overly pleasant.
But I feel like in October check in and what
we were most wrong about in terms of what we
were talking about ceaselessly and August and into September. Things
that surprised us that could be something.
Speaker 6 (21:48):
The Steelers offense is up there. They are dead last,
and any paper playing I was buying it too. Almost
anything that happened in the preseason now that I'm thinking
about it, like c J. Stroud was the quarterback people
were worried about. Everyone thrilled.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
It's so much better with the final week's your summer.
Just savor them.
Speaker 6 (22:08):
Meaning on the table and in the fantasy spectacular is
my one main thing to draft Damien Pierce. I guess
it looks a little better after this last week. I'm
not totally giving up, but that.
Speaker 7 (22:17):
Look, the Steelers can still win twelve games. I'm not
completely that.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
The door is not closed. The door is not closed.
Let's do some news. The door is speaking of the
Steelers pivot.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Bro That was good.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Kenny Pickett suffered a knee injury in that dreadful loss
uh this week to the Texans. Wow, look at all
these things tying together, and it seemed like a bad
injury at the time. But here's the good news. Rap
Sheet reports that Pickett has a bone bruise in his
(22:54):
knee could miss Week five against the Ravens. It's also
a muscle according to Rappaport, but he's it's in play
that he could be on the field this week, but
they have a buy in week six. So there's a
pretty decent chance we're gonna see Mitch Trubisky this weekend,
but also a pretty decent chance unless unless Mitch Trubisky
(23:18):
balls out, that Kenny Pickett will be back on the field,
as opposed to a worst case scenario which seemed in
play when he went down on Sunday.
Speaker 7 (23:26):
It's like the inverse scenario from a year ago where
we were waiting and knowing that Mitch Trubisky would have
essentially at some point be benched or injured or remove
from the lineup, and you come into this season with
these glowing reports of Kenny Pickett that I fell for
like a complete rube based off of July action in
(23:47):
August action, and he's not looked apart, and so I
have to question like if he if there were no
injury or no injury, like would he be on a leash?
Because I thought that Tomlin's comments after that game, we're
very Mike Tomlin. It was just like, yeah, major changes
could be coming, and really no one's safe. And it's like,
I think that when you say that, you're not talking
about your left defensive tackle. You're talking about the quarterback situation.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Hmmm.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
I think all right, I think Mitch Trubisky is an upgrade.
Speaker 6 (24:17):
The smallest hill I'll ever die on is that Mitch
Trubisky when he came back in for the Steelers last year,
played pretty well. It's very similar to my Andy Dalton
was sneaky good for the Saints last year, which which
is another one that feel like.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
It's acts like an an hill, right, yeah.
Speaker 6 (24:34):
It is, but it's aging, okay, because like Derek Carr
looks a hell of a lot like Andy Dalton are
worse right now in that offense. I was just like,
I'm just saying, it's not a good situation. I think
Trubisky could be an upgrade on what Picket is now
now how much of it is just the offense is
totally broken. Pickett's taken a huge step back from where
Pickett was even as a rookie. I mean, that's it's
not even arguable. He's really struggling. So I think Trubisky
(24:57):
has been around, could be an up great and if
he plays well enough, I think Tomlin is I guess
I don't know what the word is practical enough that
he would keep Trubisky.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
In blame Canada.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
In other news, Hey, the Cults, they're engine toward getting
Jonathan Taylor back on the field, Shane Stike, And we're
pivoting now to talking to the team of Zeus TL,
who were covered with great fanfare along with the Los
Angeles Rams on NFL Plus in our atn Game of
the Week.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Which is what is the word? It is.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Pristine for the senses.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
No, I'm saying like it is.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
It is a show that is indebted to the Manning
cast but also cast its own shadow.
Speaker 6 (25:45):
How about that it's not derivative, right, familiar? Right, it's
it's like a two and a half hour shorter. It's
not a live game that we're watching.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
Anyway, We did Rams Cults check that out on NFL Plus.
Shane Stiken, the coach of the Colts, said there's a
chance Jonathan Taylor could be on the field at Week
five against the Titans.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Of course, he started the league the season.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
On the pup list with an ankle injury that may
or may not still be a thing. Everything, of course,
is connected to a very gnarly contract dispute between Taylor
and management. The Colts opened up the twenty one day
practice window, which means they have three weeks to kind
of get him onto the field, and it does seem
(26:30):
like that could happen as soon as this week. Stiken
said there could be yeah, when asked about the chances
that he plays.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Sunday.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
So that's great news for the Colts, and I like
Zach Moss, but he's not Jonathan Taylor.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
I'm shocked.
Speaker 6 (26:49):
I mean, I was not expecting this because I want
to hear from Jonathan Taylor first, actually, before I get
too excited about it. Jonathan Taylor has not spoken to
the media since July, I believe, and so we haven't
really known what's going on. But I just was expecting
this to stay as ugly as possible and if they
get him back, I mean, this this division's wide open.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
To that point.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
Greg The reporting out there as recently as last week
was that Taylor was still digging in his heels, So
maybe either that was erroneous reporting or something had changed
between then and now. But it's certainly Listen, Taylor has
as frustrated as he is Mark, he has a reason
to get back on the field as well, because he
(27:34):
is playing, trying to get paid at some point, and
just disappearing for the whole.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Year is not going to work for him at all.
So guess it makes sense.
Speaker 7 (27:44):
This tells me like two things. One that the Colts,
who didn't seem like too hot on trading him or
doing anything with him, and like you got ownership, sort
of just digging in their heels as you say, Like
there were no major trade offers that ever came, even
behind the scenes. So he's not able to go anywhere else.
And if he doesn't play, or if he's not physically
(28:04):
able to perform by week six, then he loses in
accrued year on his rookie contract and he's not a.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Free agent after the season.
Speaker 7 (28:11):
So I think he's you know, I don't know, always
being guided by his agent and stuff, but I think
there'd be a massive motivation to get back on the field,
finish out the season if you have nowhere, if you
can't go anywhere else, and then go to free agency.
I mean, they're not going to franchise him with this situation.
Speaker 6 (28:28):
A lot of motivation too, I think because he heard
that I took him in my running back draft and
they were like that would Mark and Dan really made
fun of my guy Greg for taking me and Kamara
and Bijon in the running back draft.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
I want to prove Greg right, that's just what.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Do they call it when they put the pig on
the thing and it spins with the apple on him out?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Is that the spit roast? That was Greg?
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Yeah, that was Greg when we did the running back draft.
Just a tough not from us, even Greg. A lot
of the criticism coming from outside the walls of your fortress, Well.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
It was put up to them.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
You didn't get that right.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
There was a public poll.
Speaker 7 (29:03):
I mean, you can blame the two of us, but
like the public largely weighed in and they deemed the
results not the two of us.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah, I mean, you gotta trust the public.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
They should probably make.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Decisions in elections. Forget about it.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
We should probably stop honking and check who we all
drafted and see where that is. Eric Roberts behind the
virtual glass, can you check in on that and get
us that info at some point? Also heading back to
the field for Week five, Desmond Ritter, the Atlanta Falcons
quarterback who has struggled through much of this season and
(29:40):
really did not do himself any favors in London and
a tough loss to the Jaguars. It's led to a
lot of heat around Arthur Smith to make a change
of QB. But Smith is standing by his guy. Here
is Smith's comments on the situation.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Just as a follow up.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
If you did, is this Desmond still your starter to
be clear by court?
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Look?
Speaker 5 (30:02):
Absolutely, and I wouldn't be sitting there and get on
that antificating about what went on in the game if
we're making a.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Change wearing right now.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
But you know, and we saw it happened on the
sidelines with Mac Collins, which is actually even worse when
you watched it on replay where he missed Hollands and
then he went to dap him up and Hollands gave
him a look like are you even kidding me?
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Right now? Bro? He's losing that locker.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Room and Smith risks losing the locker room as well.
So this is I would think guys that this is
this is it for Desmond Ridder in terms of play
well this week, or you're gonna take it almost out
of Smith's hands because he knows they'll have to make
the change to stave off a revolt. That's kind of
how these things tend to go.
Speaker 7 (30:41):
Yeah, I mean, I think the thing is like if
you get a coach or an organization that's like sold
or bought into like draft pedigree, Well he doesn't have that.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
It's it.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
There wasn't much munch.
Speaker 7 (30:52):
There's not a lot of stakes in Desmond Ridder outside
the fact that you know, we got glowing remarks from
the owner and the coach all off season, and we've
got and it's fair to give him a test and
he's failing, and he's letting the team down a pretty
talented roster. And I just think it's like if you
had know him behind him, like when we talk about
pulling Burrow, and I'm really with you on the concept
of why they might do That's like the problem with
(31:12):
him is they've got nothing behind them. But Taylor Heinekey
just literally a year ago, came in around mid season
and brought a little bit of life. He's imperfect, I
get it, but he brought some juice and some energy
to the Commanders and he's the same guy and It's
like I think Taylor Heineke and this offense is almost
a much what must watch sooner than later, and it's
they're a weird team because they didn't take a bye
(31:35):
after London. They have to go right back and face
the Texans, and it's like, I wonder if there was
a buy and they had more time to marinate in this,
that maybe they make a change or do we just.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Need one more terrible ridd or start.
Speaker 6 (31:45):
And that's because of them they request that usually there
is a bye. The only reason they wouldn't have a
buye is they say we don't want it then. And
now they face a team that I'll save for Wednesday.
But this team's kind of entering my house just saying,
maybe it's injuring the hoo.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
Stick a pin in it, Greg, I like that. Let's
go through some other injuries from around the league. Coming
out of Sunday tough, tough, really one of the worst
Sundays in recent memory for the Patriots, the worst blowout
of the Belichick era, and their two best young defensive
players go out with injuries. Matthew Judan is out indefinitely
(32:23):
with a biceps injury. It's a lower bicep tendon tear.
He's gonna miss multiple weeks. He could land on injured reserve,
so it's kind of a wait and see when they
get Judon back, if they get him at all. Also,
Christian Gonzalez, who's really immediately stepped in and become kind
of a stud cornerback for this team, he went down
awkwardly on his shoulder and he is out indefinitely with
(32:46):
a shoulder injury. With this also, we don't know exactly
how long he's going to be out, but indefinitely is
never what you want to hear. And this is the
defensive player of the month last weekend as a rookie.
So double setback Greggie. And it's kind of coming from
all sides for Belichick right now.
Speaker 6 (33:03):
This is you know, the biggest, you know, most unique
test of Belichick I think since he's been in New
England in terms of his job security. Now, there was
a minute when they were zero and two in two
thousand and one. They were already chattering about it a
little bit in Boston because he started five and eleven
then zero and two. But this is everything happening all
at once. They do have the softest part of their
(33:23):
schedule coming up. In theory, it's such a hard schedule,
but they have the Saints and the Raiders. But the
Saints of the Raiders are also looking at the Patriots
and being like, ooh, we got a soft part of
our schedule coming up.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
It's the Patriots.
Speaker 7 (33:34):
Yeah, it's a defensive built team, which I innately don't trust.
That lost Marcus Jones, Jack Jones, Jonathan Jones, everyone with
the last name of Jones.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
You've now lost Gonzales.
Speaker 7 (33:44):
Judon had thirty two sacks and thirty five games as
a really good, you know, free agent pickup. But this
is their identity and they're losing a piece by piece,
and like that offense under duress is an eyesore.
Speaker 6 (33:55):
It's possibly their two best players of the team, judah
On and Gonzales.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Right now, that's great, not good, not good.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
Other injury news rap Sheet reports that Justin Herbert broke
a finger on his non throwing hand in that Week
four win over the Raiders. He not a pleasant thing,
but the idea is that it is not a serious injury.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
They have a bye in Week five, which is ideal.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
A few of the Week five you're Cleveland Browns mark
another team that perfectly time by for them as well,
with their quarterback dealing with some health issues. So he
gets two weeks before the Cowboys on Monday Night Football, and.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
We'll see where he is by then. I would imagine
that he will play.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
And I just want to give a shout out to
Justin Herbert because I did talk about earlier in the season,
you know, wanting to see him with those big dagger
plays to put teams away and take his team to
the finish line.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
And we kind of glossed over it a little bit.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
Just a beautiful deep strike on third and ten to
put that game away after the Santa Samuel bizarre step
out of bounds after the interception late game. So that
was a money throw from a banged up Herbert and
you love to see it. And they're back to five
hundred and hopefully they'll have him on the field when
they play again. Also out Tron Armstead, the Dolphins left tackle.
(35:11):
He will not play in Week five against the Giants.
This is an injury plagued player, but a great player
when he's on the field. McDaniel said that he believes
that Armstead will play again this season, but this seems
like a week to week injury.
Speaker 6 (35:26):
When you say they're going to play again this season.
That always is very concerning, especially for a player that
I feel like is an injury or two away from,
you know, wondering if this is worth it because he
he's crazy. On the injury report, they list Tehran Armstead
with like four different injuries. I've never seen it before.
It's like knee, ankle, shoulder, It's like a bunch of
(35:47):
different things, and this seem one seems serious. It sounded
like a just reading between the lines that it's probably
month or month at least, and they're not the same
without him.
Speaker 7 (35:57):
Yeah, it was such a I mean it was you know,
vague in terms of any sort of timeline. He had
left knee surgery in the off season. Your right, He's
always banged up, and they were so different without him
a year ago, and you just wonder how many people
they can lose on the offensive line, and like he
is sort of a Jenga piece for them. They have
Kendall Lamb kind of a quality player, but Toron harm
(36:19):
Armstead is sort of irreplaceable.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
Other injury news, we saw this coming and you heard
from the comments from Sean McDermott that it was not
good news around tre Dave's white. But the veteran cornerback
did indeed suffer torn achilles in the Bills this week
four win over those Dolphins, so his season is over.
He's now suffered season ending injuries in two of his
last three years. He tore a ACL in twenty twenty one.
(36:42):
So you lose an All Pro and that team got
worse and they have to find a way to make
it work without him.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Do they have the dogs to back them up? GREGI?
Speaker 6 (36:53):
I mean they have a first round pick, Kyrie Elm
who's been a healthy scratch up points this year in
that they could really use to step up. No, I
would say cornerback was one of the thinnest positions on
their team. They have Toron Johnson who's a good slot corner.
Christian Benford is this late round pick from a year
ago who's stepped up and has been solid. But that's
one of their thinner spots and players injured. It's it's something,
(37:17):
it's something to attack if you're Buffalo or playing Buffalo.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
And guess what.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
The trade deadline is a little less than one month away,
and we talked about it, Mark, you and I were
in lockstep on it entering the season. The urgencies through
the roof for this Bills team, this core. Uh, if
you think you need it, go get it, go use
use some draft capital and add some depth to that
secondary if if need be so.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
They that feels like a potential.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Area Giants could be sellers.
Speaker 6 (37:46):
A Dorri Jackson is a guy on their team who
I feel like could still have some good football in them.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Might be you're the GM. You have the GM. All right,
let's do.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
That later this month.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
Yeah, and just button up a couple other things. So
Chase Claypool, you know the drama there about the wide
receiver traded for the number thirty two overall pick just
last year at the trade deadline, buyer beware. And now
because of comments he's made in general, lack of effort
at other times on the field and just being a knucklehead,
(38:19):
has fallen out of favor with the Bears. And then
some weird messaging because everything with the Bears is just
a little messed up these days or a lot messed up,
where Ibra Flu's first kind of let the media know
that it was the team's or is the player's decision
not to be at the Broncos game, and then it
was clarified that it was the team's decision and Ibra
(38:42):
Flu said Monday that Claypool will remain away from the
team ahead of the Week five matchup, but the Commanders
hear something from fluse.
Speaker 5 (38:48):
To correct the record. For Chase Claypool. We did tell
him not to be here for the weekend, including the game.
We told him to be an active and active on Saturday,
you know, and this morning we informed him he's not
going to be here this week for the game as well,
(39:09):
and we just feel that's best for the team at
this time. So and again Ryan and I have informed
him of that and that's where it is. So we
just feel that's best for the team right now.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
Ryan is Ryan Poles, the GM who is probably having
nightmares about that trade, which I think there, you know,
I think you could say the San Francisco trade for
Trey Lance is maybe the worst trade of the decade
so far, or near the top the Russell Wilson trade.
The returns are not are dreadful. We mentioned Jamal Adams
that trade was not great for the Seahawks, but when
(39:43):
you just look at what they got, what they gave
up even in the moment, it was like, that's a
little rich for a guy that has been a little
spotty as a player, and now what it's turned into,
which is a three ring circus. One of the worst
trades of the decade, right near the top of the
list for me.
Speaker 7 (39:58):
Anyway, Yeah, I throw some of the cults transactions for
various failed veteran quarterbacks over the past couple of years
that didn't go well. But I mean I'm watching eber
flues during that thing, and it's just like sometimes if
as you get higher and higher up in management, in
this case, it's like you're going up the food chain
and it's like, yeah, it's not so bad to be
(40:18):
a coordinator where no one's asking me the tough questions
you got to see. I mean, just watching his body
leguage having to go up and deliver like a essentially
an editorial retraction. I mean, it's just an uncomfortable situation.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Feel good, No, like that.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
That was a tough scene.
Speaker 6 (40:33):
I mean, Claypole just probably goes without saying, but he gone,
He'll be for I'm gonna put the over under on
a twenty twenty four to sixth.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Just a hard conditional seventh.
Speaker 7 (40:47):
I have a prediction where he goes okay, because there
was reports for me and over the weekend that one
team like that. I mean, I'm sure there's others, but
we're very actively looking for wide receivers, which was the
Carolina Panthers.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
So maybe they think they can bring that guys.
Speaker 7 (41:01):
I'm not saying I'm not saying it's a magical leverpole,
just that I think that I could see the team
that's desperate for help.
Speaker 4 (41:09):
The guy that is a team that needs talent, But
do they need like a cancer in their locker room,
which I get the vibes Claypool because.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
I don't think he.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
I don't think Mike Tomlin was a huge fan of
Chase Claypool the person either.
Speaker 7 (41:24):
So I don't think any team is saying, you know,
what we really need is a cancer to destroy our
locker room.
Speaker 4 (41:28):
So as a surprise the Panthers, it's like that's a
little bit of a sensitive situation with the rookie there
and stuff.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
I wouldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
But you know, I mean.
Speaker 6 (41:39):
Crazy trades like they put the graphic up tonight when
you saw the old lock to fant touchdown. By the way,
I'm still here in the Chris Westling podcast studio, and
Noah Fan was going down the siland I was remembering
our friend Chris going wild for a little Noah Fan
catching passes from Drew Locke back when they were in Denver.
I went through an article I loved you, lock, but
(42:00):
they got Drew Locke Noahfense Shelby Harris in the number
five overall pick who turned into Devin Witherspoon, and then
they what a trade?
Speaker 2 (42:09):
What a trade? How about that?
Speaker 4 (42:11):
Yeah, when Devin Witherspoon's playing like he played tonight, that's
gonna quiet all the Jayalen Carter stuff as well if
they nailed that pick all right. Finally, in the news,
did not see this coming. Nobody was tracking this. Jameson
Williams was totally off the radar after his gambling suspension,
but the league amended it's gambling policy on Friday in
(42:31):
a new a news dump uh, and it led to
Williams having his suspension changed by nature.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Of the new wording to the policy.
Speaker 4 (42:41):
Uh, he's a first time offender caught betting on a
non NFL game from inside team facilities, so that suspension
now with the rules, it was six now it's two
and he's already missed four, so that kind of sucks.
But the good news is he's now activated, and he's
and he's part of the team, and everyone wants to
(43:02):
see what happens with Jameson Williams in this offense because
you know, he's probably the most physically gifted wide receiver
on that team. It's just now, where is what is
his role? Like what kind of player is he as
a professional, because his rookie year was mostly compromised by
rehab from a knee injury and finding his way.
Speaker 6 (43:21):
I know this is tempting, Mark, but because we do
work for the NFL, but I think it's different for
league employees. And so your plans to go to the
Chargers facility tomorrow and Costa Mesa and start wagering on cricket,
you know, a non NFL sport, don't do it.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Don't do it, can't do it. We need you foolish.
It would be foolish, Mark.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
That's great, Council. I'll follow that. I know we have
an off data roll.
Speaker 7 (43:45):
I I do feel in a way because like the
whole point of this was like to try to raise
awareness among players, which, like I didn't know this.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Rule or that rule.
Speaker 7 (43:53):
It's like, Okay, why did they need to announce this now?
And maybe maybe it's just like they went through the process,
they came up with the results and here we go.
But it brings these players and Jamison Williams primarily onto
a sexy team back into our world where you can
spend two games telling us why he's back and why
the policy has changed, and all the players see it
(44:14):
and hear about it, and they found a way to
double down on awareness for an issue that they don't
want hanging around NFL locker rooms. So it's like you
don't have to wait till next offseason for like four more,
like you know, Dingleberry's to do the same thing and
get caught and find you know, they were like these
rash of fines. Now it's like, let's get into everyone's
head that this is the rule, and like this was
(44:34):
a great way to do it in the middle of
the season when everyone's talking about these players in this
whole entire thing.
Speaker 4 (44:39):
Counterpoint, roll out the policy in a clean way in
the offseason, and then everybody knows what the situation is
and that guy like Jameson Williams is back in week
three instead of week five.
Speaker 6 (44:51):
Counterpoint, This guy, Mark Sessler gets it and he used
Dingleberry in a big spot.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
One guy that didn't get it.
Speaker 4 (44:59):
I don't know if we've touched on this on this
show was Greg Rosenthal, the ATM running backstraft back in June.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Let's let's take a look at that graphic.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
See where we're at now now that we're working at Ober.
Check it out on YouTube. Mark I recall having the
first overall pick, which is an immense advantage for the
Cesstag and he had Christian McCaffrey, Saquon Barkley, Derrick Henry,
and Ramandre Stevenson. Dan uh had actually I think Greg
(45:29):
had the second pick, as I recall, and he took
Bjon Robinson, Alvin Kamara, Jonathan Taylor, and Aaron Jones, and
then Dan took Nick Chubb, Austin Eckler, Josh Jacobs, and
Berice Hall. Interesting, it's it's kind of interesting. Boys, that
is anybody doing?
Speaker 7 (45:47):
I don't think there's a runaway here. Now, there's a
lot of unavailable players.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Is this?
Speaker 4 (45:53):
Oh no, is this like gonna be used in negotiations
against running backs? Because I'm not seeing a lot of
major values here.
Speaker 6 (46:00):
I think Mark wins because he's the one that has
McCaffrey right.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
And Bson's been great, Bon's been great.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
Yeh, I've been I've been undercut by injuries to Chubb
and and Eckler unfortunately. And Jacobs finally did something, and
Halls had moments, but he got Aaron Rodgers, so that
was that was a tough one. I stand by my draft,
but Real Football had a harsh reality call for my group.
Speaker 7 (46:24):
I wouldn't put this back out on Twitter, slash x
or wherever to gain new opinions on this variant.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
All right, good stuff.
Speaker 4 (46:35):
We will be out of your hair for a day,
but don't worry. We'll be back on Wednesday with another EP,
another NFL plus EP Thursday Thursday Week five preview TNF
free cap.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
A lot of good stuff coming away. Thanks for hanging around.
He's the call.
Host
Gregg Rosenthal
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