Cigarettes on the Black Market

The FDA weighs heavy regulations to consumable tobacco. Would the black market take over if cigarettes were banned?

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Are we not due?

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (00:04):
Are we not due for something here coming up? You know,
I know that you're looking at the forecast there, but
sometimes it's late January. Sometimes it's February where we kind
of get smashed with some stuff. Yeah, So I'm doing
my best to understand that. Earlier today, also, a couple
of sources have thrown out there, and I don't know,

(00:27):
I don't know if this is I don't know if
this is legitimately what's going to happen. But I just
wanted to note this because we talked about it before.
But it is being reported that there's some legislation in
the works introduced to make daylight saving time permanent and

(00:48):
not the other way around. Because remember we talked about
the plausibility of what that would look like. Because Donald
Trump was that last week or two weeks ago he
said something about wanting to make daylight saving time or
he wanted to make he wanted to end daylight saving
time essentially, but we couldn't figure out in the interpretation
if he was going to eliminate daylight saving time or

(01:10):
if he was going to end standard time and we
were going to just like stay in one spot and
just stay there forever, and it sounds like from these reports,
and again these are non confirmed and these are not
something that is actually like, they're not signed or anything,
and there's no names on the bill, but there is

(01:30):
apparently legislation being worked on to make daylight saving time permanent,
so we would need to spring forward and then we
would stay there theoretically. Now, I would prefer that we
talked about that and we'll see what people are doing.
But all sorts of different people are jumping in on

(01:50):
the issue. Of course, as we always will. If we
learn more, we know more, you know what we're gonna do,
we'll tell you then, because I'm still not buying it,
because we're hearing different things from different people as to
what they would like to do. But it sounds like
there's growing support to just leave us in one of
those spots. And even though I prefer one of them,
maybe for reasons unbeknownst to me that I don't care about,

(02:13):
people would much rather go to standard it. Maybe we
have an American vote on it. I don't know, So anyway,
I wanted to talk about this. The FDA is apparently
moving forward with a regulatory rule before Biden gets out
of Office here that essentially would be banning cigarettes which

(02:35):
are currently on the market in favor of lower, more
controlled nicotine levels. Now, this is something that the FDA
spokesperson told Fox News earlier today, and I quote the
proposed rule Tobacco Product Standard for Nicotine Level of certain

(02:57):
tobacco products. What a crazy name for that. Listen to
the name of this rule, the Tobacco Product Standard for nicked.
Let me start over, the Tobacco Product Standard for nicotine
level of certain tobacco products. Come up with something better anyway,

(03:21):
The proposed rule is displaying in the Office of Management
and Budget's ROCIS system as having completed regulatory review January
the third, so that would have been right before the weekend.
As the FDA has previously said, a proposed product standard
to establish a maximum nicotine level to reduce the addictiveness
of cigarettes and certain other combusted tobacco products, when finalized,

(03:45):
is estimated to be among the most impactful population level
actions in the history of US tobacco product regulation. At
this time, the FDA cannot provide any further common until
it is published. Now, what would this be right now,
the FDA is the power to regulate tobacco products because
Barack Obama signed the Family Smoking Prevention in Tobacco Control

(04:08):
Act at the beginning of his presidency in two thousand
and nine, and each in every year, you know, there's
chatter about trying to continue to lower the nicotine level
in these things. And July twenty seventeen, under the Trump administration,

(04:29):
FDA Commissioner at the time, Scott Gottlieb, said that he
would seek to require tobacco companies to drastically cut nicotine
in tobacco products in an effort to help adult smokers quit.
In twenty twenty two, the FDA under the Biden administration
announced their plans for a proposed rule that would lower
levels of nicotine so they were less addictive or non addictive.

(04:52):
So with that being said, and I suppose this, you know,
can go a couple of different ways, yeay or nay
on it, because the response immediately from the political right,
the conservatives, would be this is a bad move because
it's going to open the door for nicotine to now

(05:13):
be a black market product, much like recreational marijuana would
be in states that don't have legalized marijuana. You buy
your marijuana from a guy on the corner and there's
no regulation on that. Anything could be that in there, Okay,
And we've had that conversation about, you know, some of
the dangers of marijuana and why you know, some people

(05:35):
just don't want it at all anywhere. But as you
can tell, that's not keeping it out of here. And
this goes back to the prohibition of alcohol as far
as I'm concerned. When we tried to make America better
and keep people off of the booze back in the
nineteen twenties, what happened, Well, it basically opened the door
for organized crime in America, the compones, the mafias, the

(05:58):
mobs to essentially bootleg create make to still acquire their
own variations of alcohol and then sell it on the
black market underground and made them a lot more money.
And there was no regulation onto the quality or what
it actually was, to the point where so much bad
stuff was happening that they had to repeal prohibition back

(06:23):
you just twelve years after it began. It's quite interesting
the history of that and how we can continue to
kind of lose the plot of that.

Speaker 4 (06:32):
Now.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
I'm not here advocating for tobacco products. It's not something
I've ever been interested in. It's not something that I
use under any circumstance. But if we're talking about limiting
the amount of nicotine, that certainly is going to limit
the I mean, let's be honest with you. And I'm
not here to judge. I'm not trying to judge, and
I'm not saying I'm not an advocate for this, and

(06:53):
I'm not saying that people shouldn't have the right to
do it. What I'm saying is if you take the
nicotine out have cigarettes, who's smoking them?

Speaker 2 (07:03):
If you take the nicotine out of cigarettes.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yeah, or or to a point where it's non addictive, nobody.
I mean, and what's and why? And what does that
mean for the tobacco companies? First of all, is I
mean they're gonna their business is dead. Tobacco farmers their businesses,
their farm is dead. This is this is bad. But

(07:27):
then that opens up the back end black market to
acquire these things that are being regulated, and people are
paying a lot of money to get them now. They're
highly taxed, they're highly regulated now, but people want them
because they want them. And I'm not saying that it's
good because people are absolutely getting addicted. Even if it's
less and less people because of the alternatives like vape

(07:49):
and zen and all this other stuff that doesn't necessarily
need tobacco for people to get the nicotine that they're
looking for. But there it's the addiction that you know,
and I get the health aspect of this, but you're
not telling me that there are people who want tobacco
products that aren't still going to go out of their
way to try to find tobacco products, even if it's
from a cartel or from the guy on the corner

(08:11):
that is operating through the cartel or some you know,
drug dealers or anything like that. Drugs are illegal pretty
much everywhere in various ways, and we still know that
people are getting their hands on them with absolutely no regulation.
Now I'm not saying legalize hard drugs. I'm just saying
that you're going to just add another way for black
market people to sell what is right now available on

(08:35):
the regular market in regulated forms, and now people are
just going to go behind the scenes to find them
if they really want them, is my point. Now I'm
seeing different people on social media with the argument that's
this is not the kind of thing that people are
going to go out of their way to buy on
the black market. Are we sure about that?

Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah? Are you sure about that? Yeah? I would say
that if all tobacco products become illegal because tobacco has nicotine,
so will you separate that?

Speaker 3 (09:04):
Correct? And that's the thing is, if we're regulating nicotine more,
we're already kind of getting there with zen in vapes,
aren't we. So I guess it's up to gen Z
and the younger people. If that's the direction that this
is going, instead of people trying to buy combustible tobacco products,
then is there even a room for a black market theoretically,

(09:26):
or for the cartels, or for any sort of bad
guy organized crime unit essentially to sell these tobacco products
when the people who are addicted to nicotine could just
go get a vapor a zin.

Speaker 5 (09:39):
Now.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
I don't know if it's that easy for people who
are already smoking combustible tobacco products, But if that's the
direction that most of the you know, people in their
college age, or even people who are experimenting even younger
than that, which again I'm not saying is good, but
we know it happens. They're experimenting with vapes and zen,

(10:00):
they're not actually buying combustible tobacco products. Does that make sense?
So wouldn't people kind of lean going that direction instead
of buying it from people on the corner. That's where like, Okay,
regulating this might be good, and it might actually be
healthier for America, and we can more easily regulate the
nicotine in the vapes and the zen's and all that stuff.

(10:21):
But is it actually a useful situation to combat that
if we think that people are still going to try
to sell traditional combustible tobacco products like cigarettes on the
black market because all of a sudden they are essentially
banned because of the level of tobacco or the level

(10:42):
of nicotine in there. I guess that's what we need
to talk about. If you've got thoughts, call us four
h two five five eight eleven ten four H two
five to five eight eleven ten, News radio eleven ten KFAB.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
And raised longer on news radio eleven ten KFAB.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
Would the youth of America or Americans in general, who
are basically being told that the cigarettes that they're buying
now are going to become illegal or because or or
the tobacco companies cooperate with the FDA and lower the
nicotine level to an almost non addictive or very limited
addiction level. Is that going to drive people to try

(11:19):
to take more nicotine? Is it going to get them
off of smoking? Which is the whole point of this
is to try to keep people from smoking, which, again,
from a health standpoint, that's absolutely fantastic. From an economic standpoint,
I'm not sure that you know you're completely ending an
industry essentially in that situation. But does it also open

(11:40):
a back door for organized crime to sell these tobacco
products to get nicotine or will the American public that
are already using these shift more towards the zens or
shift more towards vaping, which we've already seen from the
you know, millennials and Gen Z generations that has become
more and more of a thing that they are doing

(12:00):
versus traditional smoking.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
What's the verdict, Well, I do think we've already seen
that with youation, you're kind of already leaning that way,
which makes me feel like maybe there isn't that kind
of market anymore.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
And I find it hard to believe that a fifty
five year old person who's been smoking for thirty years
is going to all of a sudden be looking for
somebody on the street corner that's illegally selling the cigarettes
they like, versus if I really want my nicotine, now,
this is what's going to push me to a more artificial,
more regulated, and albeit likely to be a bit healthier

(12:37):
at least, we still are unsure about the healthiness, if
you will, of vaping versus traditional smoking. But you would
figure it's a little bit more controlled, a little bit
more regulated. Is that kind of what the older generations
would do to make the adjustment if they're prefer tobacco
products no longer become available. I find it hard to

(13:00):
believe that people of that age would be looking for
illegal ways to get the tobacco products they prefer.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yeah. I also find it hard to believe that the
you know, the older guy who likes to have a
stogi every once in a while is going to switch
to a vape.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
Yeah, I suppose maybe cigars or not. Like, what's the
nicotine level in cigars? Anyway? I don't know anybody who's
enjoying cigars for the nicotine. I could be wrong on that.
I feel like people just enjoy the taste of cigars.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
I think some people do. I mean, I remember hearing
JFK would smoke like a handful of cigars a day.

Speaker 3 (13:41):
Yeah, I mean there's a lot of celebrities that have
the ability to get very high quality cigars and you know,
enjoy them. But again, I don't know anybody who's smoking
those for the nicotine as much as they're smoking them
for the I don't know the culture or for their
thoughts on you know, the taste or just the status

(14:02):
of what it means. Either way, I am curious as
to how you feel about this. And this is a
non judgmental zone. It's just this is a this is
the kind of thing. This is an important health concern
that I think, you know, has been growing since the
sixties when the Surgeon General essentially said that smoking is

(14:22):
bad for you and could prove it with science, and
they've been trying to figure out ways to limit people's
not their access, but you know, make sure people understand
under no circumstance that this is a healthy habit to have,
and doing everything they can to try to help people
who are trying to quit or get rid of the

(14:43):
most dangerous part of this. So if you have thoughts,
call us. We'll take phone calls. Next four h two
five five eight eleven ten. Four h two five five
eight eleven ten, News Radio eleven ten kfab.

Speaker 5 (14:55):
Em Rise's songer on news radio eleven ten KFAB.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
The FDA is is considering or at least moving forward
with a regulatory rule for combustible tobacco products, which is,
you know, cigarettes mostly, But the idea of lowering the
standard of maximum nicotine that can be used to a
point where people generally are not going to be addicted

(15:19):
to them, that's I think the end goal. I don't
know if that's exactly what's going to happen, but there
is some pushback from people who are on the more
conservative side saying this could lead to organized crime for
tobacco products, and I'm just wondering if that's actually true,
considering most young people are already kind of shifting more
towards zins and vaping and more artificial nicotine products to

(15:43):
get nicotine that they are more addicted to than traditional
combusted tobacco products. Well, the phones are open, we'll get
your thoughts on this. Let's start with Lyle at four
h two five five eight eleven ten. Lyle, what do
you think about this?

Speaker 4 (15:57):
Well, I used to fill vending machines cigarette vending machines.
In the sixties, they were thirty cents a pack. Then
the state taxes went up on them, they were thirty
five cents a pack. Then in the two thousands at
the casinos they were eight and nine dollars a pack.

Speaker 5 (16:18):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (16:19):
People want them, They're going to buy them. They're going
to get them any way they can. It's just like
anything else. If they told you you couldn't watch sports
on TV anymore, you would try to find a way
to jury rig of TV to get the sports.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yeah, so, so, Lyle, I think that's good. That's a
good example there as well. You know, like you're one
hundred percent right. They have raised the prices with the
hope that the price increases would get keep people from smoking.
That hasn't necessarily worked too much for people. People are
just budgeting more to buy them. Like you said, I
guess my only thing would be the with the advent
of other nicotine products, like they being in those impacts

(17:01):
that kind of simulate chewing tobacco, would that be easier
for people to switch to because I think most people
who smoke do you do it for the nicotine more
than anything.

Speaker 4 (17:11):
Else right, No, I think they do it because it's
a habit of having something in their hands. They need
to be fidgeting with something. A lot of people, because
I've watched them over the years, they take a few puffs,
set it down, tack it up, take a few puffs,
set it down. They have to have something to do

(17:32):
with their hands. The nicotine is addictive, but also just
having something in their hands is what's addictive.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
Think so so lyele on that front, and I'll let
you go after this. Do you think that with cigarettes,
then let's say they lower the nicotine levels and the
cigarette manufacturers still make the product, they just have lower
levels of nicotine. Do you think that people will still
just buy them with the lower levels of nicotine if
that's what they want, and then they won't even have

(18:01):
to buy them off the black market they just have
the lower nicotine levels of cigarettes.

Speaker 5 (18:05):
Is that?

Speaker 3 (18:06):
Is that something you think was possible?

Speaker 4 (18:08):
No, Because there's so many of these cigarette machines that
you can lower your own, people will figure ways to
get it so they can't buy it on the full,
you know, legally, they'll do it illegally with other kinds
of stuff to put in there and they'll get addicted
to that.

Speaker 3 (18:28):
Interesting Lyle, I appreciate your thoughts on this. Thanks for
calling in.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
Okay, have a good day you too.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
Rita's on our phone line four O two five five
eight to eleven ten. Hey, Rita, what do you think?

Speaker 4 (18:38):
All right?

Speaker 5 (18:39):
Hey?

Speaker 4 (18:41):
Did that drop off?

Speaker 3 (18:42):
No, Rita, you're right there, no problem, go ahead and
the go go go ahead.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
It's all good.

Speaker 4 (18:48):
I used to be an addict and there's nothing I
wouldn't have done to get a cigarette. I remember going
out in the middle of the night selling nice silver.

Speaker 5 (19:00):
Good cigarette.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
So so you think just I mean, it's a nicotine.

Speaker 4 (19:06):
It's psychological too, because you think you have to have
it in the uh, the the manipulation of it. He
was right in your hands.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
Do you think, uh.

Speaker 4 (19:20):
Problem, people aren't gonna just let it go.

Speaker 5 (19:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
So I think if there's if there's something that read
let let me uh, let me ask you this. I
guess then if the vaping would have been available in
that time of your life and you could have had
something that was similar to a traditional cigarette that it

(19:44):
wasn't it was, but you were still getting the same
nicotine rush from it, would that have been something you
would have leaned on versus you know, trying to buy
a traditional cigarette or or do you think that that's
still okay?

Speaker 2 (19:58):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (19:58):
Is it? You know at smoking a stinky.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
Right right, and and the vaping that there there there
isn't that with the vaping you can you know, people
are getting away with it.

Speaker 4 (20:09):
It's expecting a lot for people to just change up.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
No, that's that's for sure, especially if this is a
big drop in the nicotine level of these products. I
don't know if that's what it's going to be, but
it's something they're talking about, that's for sure.

Speaker 4 (20:22):
Read it.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
Thanks for.

Speaker 4 (20:25):
I've heard of children getting hold of a cigar and
showing on it and getting them like very ill. Yeah,
there's a lot of nicotine in this cigar. Probably care
part of guitar.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
And are a good cigar and smoke it.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
Interesting. Hey, read I appreciate your thoughts on this. Thanks
for calling in. Yeah you as well. Yeah, I don't,
I don't know, and I'm I I don't know. I
don't think cigars are going to be touched much by this.
Because I had a couple of people texting and or
email me and say, yes, that's exactly right, that the

(21:02):
cigars are more of the taste than they are of
nicotine content, even though they have a lot of nicotine
Based on the product that is in there, I just
think with the technology of the vaping and of the
those impacts and stuff, I just I don't know that
people would go that much further to find a traditional

(21:23):
combustible tobacco product. George is on the line. Thanks George
for listening. What's going on with you today, George, Well,
I haven't.

Speaker 5 (21:31):
Got a little deeper concern. If people go to the
black market to get their product, what's going to keep
the cartel from lacing them with all kinds of chemicals?

Speaker 3 (21:45):
Yeah, I mean the Well, the argument would then be,
you know, George, it's already laced with a lot of
chemicals to begin with. But when you deregulate something and
people are still finding it on the black market, this
is the exact argument with marijuana. People are getting a
hold of like synthetic marijuana and stuff like that which
is so unsafe and it's making people violently ill. But

(22:06):
that's because people are buying that stuff in a state
that doesn't have recreational marijuana, so there's no regulation on it.
We have no idea what's in that stuff? So I
guarantee that would be happening if that happened, you know
what I mean?

Speaker 2 (22:16):
Which which would be the.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
Biggest danger I think of putting it on the black market.
I just don't know if the demand would be there
right because of the vaping in the zens and all
that stuff. I think there are alternatives that people can
still get the kind of nicotine that they're looking for
without having to spend you know, twelve dollars on a
pack of cigarettes that don't even have, you know, a

(22:39):
high addictive level of nicotine that they're used to. I
think in today's day and age, I think, you know,
you can legally buy a vape pen and not have
to worry about a lot of that stuff. If that
is the case, then we don't have a problem. If
that's not the case, though your scenario is going to happen,
people are going to have other stuff that they're going
to be exposed to by buying this stuff on the

(23:01):
black market. There's no doubt. Yep, Thanks George, appreciate it.
Tom's on the line four two, five, five, eight eleven, ten,
Hey Tom, what's going on?

Speaker 4 (23:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (23:11):
I really don't understand the concept behind lowering the nicotine
level and cigarettes, because it's going to do exactly the
same thing that we've got.

Speaker 5 (23:18):
Now.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
You have several brands of light cigarettes, and they find
that people, no matter what brand they smoke, get the
same level nicodeine because you either draw harder or you
smoke moral mm hmm yeah. They yeah, more money for
the country.

Speaker 5 (23:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
And that's the other thing too, Tom, the tax dollars
that are generated off tobacco sales. I mean, how do
you replace that. I get the whole health aspect of it, right,
And I'm not here to say that, you know, I
advocate for you know, using tobacco products at all, but
it's an industry that makes a ton of money, and
it makes a ton of money based on taxes as well.
And I know the idea of raising the tax money

(23:59):
on those products was to try to get people to
quit eventually, but it's also turned out to be an
incredibly profitable thing for these states that have instituted these
high taxes. So I don't know, I think you're right.
I think people, you know, if they're available, people will
try to get as much nicotine as possible. I just
think there are alternatives like the vape pens that are
going to allow them to get the nicotine beyond just

(24:22):
you know, a traditional tobacco product. I appreciate the thought, Tom,
thanks for listening to us. We could go one hundred
different ways with this, I think my my my thought
process is if this happens, if the FDA does lower

(24:42):
the nicotine levels to a standard that is essentially very
much more manageable levels of addiction or no addiction at
all for whatever reason.

Speaker 5 (24:55):
Right.

Speaker 3 (24:57):
I just think with the advent of the vaping, in
the advent of zen packs, in things of that nature,
if you're looking for the nicotine high, which there's a
debate as to how damaging nicotine itself is beyond being
addictive and you need to rely on it, it's the lungs,
it's the you know, mouth cancer that people develop from

(25:17):
using these tobacco products. We're talking about combustible tobacco products
mostly though for this so we'll stick with cigarettes for now.
But I just think that people would be way more
apt to go in try vaping then they would be, oh, oh,
I gotta go find like an old fashioned pack of cigarettes.

(25:41):
I don't you. I mean, it just feels like that's
just way more convenient, and it actually probably ends up
cheaper and way more easy to get your hands on
without having to worry about any quote illegal activity or
any you know issues, not really knowing what's in the
products that you're buying.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
I think most people will, some people won't. But those
people who won't, I would guess, and I'm pretty confident
on this, they're going to be in the strong minority
in that because I do think, especially if you have to,
especially if this is aimed towards the younger generations, which
we all we know that they mess around with these products.

(26:20):
They're just messing around with vape pins more than they're
messing around with traditional tobacco products, right, more than anything else. Right,
So yeah, I mean I think this to me, this
is more of a air pollution issue here. This is
a let's let's get the the uh, what's the term
for it, the combustible combustible. Let's let's get the combustible

(26:42):
products out of our society because people don't like the
smell and the air pollution of it, and.

Speaker 3 (26:47):
People will generally quit. I think if the nicotine isn't
in there now, will they quit nicotine products altogether. Probably not. Well,
they you know, like the gum, like the smoking gum,
like what they call it, nicotine gum. Yeah, like nicotine gum,
Like people chew on that instead, right, Like they're not
quitting nicotine, They're quitting the act of smoking.

Speaker 5 (27:08):
Right.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
But that's what this whole idea from the FDA is
in the first place. Five forty nine, we wou wrap
it up next news radio eleven to ten KFAP. We'll
be in, we'll talk to them. I'm excited for the
show if you see me out there, and I'm led
to believe that potentially Scott Vorhees is going to be
going to the show tonight as well. But you know,
it's weird a musical. I don't know is it a musical.
I'm not sure if it's a musical. I don't do
a lot of I don't do a lot of recon

(27:31):
on these shows. I just like going to the shows. Sure,
So I'm going to go to the show tonight and
I don't really know what to expect. But it's based
on a game. You know, you don't usually see shows
that are based on games.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
And a fantastic movie as well.

Speaker 3 (27:44):
Have you seen it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, and a lot
of I think murder mysteries just in general are kind of,
you know, based on the idea of the unpredictability of
something like clue, where you have three things that you're
looking for, which room, the person who does it in,
the weapon that they use, us and it gives you
endless possibilities of how you get to that moment with

(28:06):
just those three variables you add in, you know, like
you watch Knives Out or Glass Onion or any of
these murder mystery movies and you're just kind of like, oh,
I'm constantly guessing as to what exactly is going on
here until the end. It's fun, and people do murder
mystery nights too, so I'm excited for it. It's gonna
be a good time. Tomorrow, We're gonna have a Wednesday show.
It's a hump day. You've got plenty of things going on.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
Tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
We are scheduled to talk to Senator Pete Ricketts. The
senator is in session, so we'll chat with him, and
you know what else we're gonna do. We're gonna talk.
I am scheduled at least to talk with the University
of Nebraska Omaha. They have a huge basketball game nationally
televised tomorrow night. We're scheduled to talk to their head
basketball coach ahead of that game tomorrow. We'll do that
in more Talk to you then on news Radio eleven
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