Could You Use A Digital Fast?

Could You Use A Digital Fast?

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I want you to start this conversation by just telling
you that what I'm about to say is in no
way or shape an endorsement of any specific behavioral trait
or anybody's personal habits. It has everything to do with
what I am seeing happen, what one school is attempting
to do, and maybe that we need to think a
little bit more outside the box about how we live. Matt,
tell the people what I'm holding in my hand. He's

(00:21):
got a smartphone. When did you get your first smartphone?
That's a good question. Well, let's go back you here further.
When did you get your first cell phone?

Speaker 2 (00:27):
First cell phone was about how old I was early
college years. I did not have a cell phone in
high school, so I don't know what that's like.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Then you're a few years older than me. So I
think I got it right as people were starting to
get tom in high school and I was a freshman.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
It's like six ish, and that's right around when I
got mine, and I would have been early college around then.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Okay, so six mid two thousands is when kids of
high school college age now were being outfitted with a
cellular device.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
I got mine back in the day when you only
had a certain amount of text that you could send
or it would charge you.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
You would buy well also yes that, but also you
could get like what they would call a go phone,
which essentially was you would buy the little cards that
would put minutes onto your device, and a text was
like a quarter of a minute. So if you sent
four texts, that was the same about as using minutes, right,
and you could buy up to like I think we
were buying like fifty minutes, and then when you'd use

(01:21):
those minutes, you'd go back and buy another card. I
didn't like, like you didn't pay for like month to
month stuff right, Like, Like it wasn't like you had
a cell phone plane. You bought the phone. You could
buy cards to activate the phone, and once your minutes
ran out, then you had to buy a new card.
That makes sense, Yeah, that's the kind of thing, like
I I it is as long ago, long enough ago
to where Singular was the phone company that I had

(01:44):
my phone through. Remember Singular, the Orange guy? Yeah? Yeah,
So anyway, I mentioned this because that changed everything. You
weren't all of a sudden needing to be at a
pay phone to get ahold of home. You could call
or text somebody from where you were sitting wherever, and
that mattered. Now it was still prohibited in school. They
didn't want to see your cell phone out anywhere in school.

(02:06):
I don't know if you had that issue as well,
but that is something that I had an issue with, right.
It's just like when I got to early college, cell
phones had become prevalent enough where I mean, there was
a very strict policy of don't have your phone out
for any reason, no matter what your phone is. I
didn't get a smartphone, which essentially is a computer in
your pocket, until after college I had my first professional job.

(02:28):
This thing is so nice. It's really nice to have
for a lot of reasons. I can watch TV on it,
I can listen to music on it. I can play
games on it. I can scroll social media. I can
get any information, any answer to any question I could
possibly have right in my hand. You know how important
it is to have something like this. You're trying to
navigate somewhere, Like, what did we do without this type
of navigation? You needed to buy like one of those

(02:49):
GPS devices for your vehicle. And even then, if you
were in a strange place trying to navigate through, there
was difficult, or you had to go to a desktop
computer and print off map quest directions. Remember those days,
I do. I mean I did that too, I mean
it was difficult. Nowadays we're spoiled rotten. However, the generations
that have followed us, Matt, have grown up with nothing
but screens in front of their face and in their hands,

(03:11):
and we at this point, I think you and I
are probably both pretty similar in the way that we
have our phone in our hand a lot for a
bunch of different reasons. I mean, you kind of need it.
I need to check my work email regularly. I need
to be able to get in touch with somebody regularly.
I need answers to questions regularly. I like to be
able to. Oh, if I'm like in the bathroom while
the hockey game is going on tonight, I'm gonna have

(03:33):
my phone with me so I can watch it while
I'm sitting on a toilet. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
It's a handy thing to have it, sure is handy.
Just don't do it for more than ten minutes. I
read a study about that. Why because of your leg
star falling asleep.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
It's just not good for you. Don't sit on the
can for more than ten minutes. It's a good rule
of thumb. I'm probably broken that multiple times. Oh me too. Anyway,
I read about this thing that was happening at De
moy Christians School. Of course it came from the Moynes,
so I still get a lot of stuff from there,
And I know that this isn't necessarily local, and maybe
somebody locally has done this before and I'm just not
aware of it. I apologize, but this is the inspiration

(04:04):
for my conversation from today, From this morning when school
started through Sunday night, the students at the Moyne Christian
School are doing what they're calling a digital fast where
the kids will have no electronics whatsoever for those four
days Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. On the surface, I'm
explaining you nothing else except hey, these kids in their

(04:24):
eighth graders. It's only for the eighth graders. These kids
cannot have their phone. They cannot listen to the radio,
which that's a little blasphemist for me for my taste, obviously,
but they can't listen to radio, they can't watch television,
they can't have any electronics whatsoever. It is a full
on digital fast for four.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
Days, your knee, your reaction to that, just during school hours, no, no,
all the time, for four days, no electronics. I think
at that age I could see that only being a
good thing, only a good thing. I think about my
life right now. I couldn't do that because well, we
couldn't do that.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
I know.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
Isn't that kind of sad? Though, I'm just sitting here
while you were talking that whole time, just doing the
logistics of like why I can't really do that, and it's.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
Kind of sad. It's not sad, it is, though, No,
it's not. We are more efficient and productive in our
lives now than our forefathers because we can work, we
can think about work, we can get it hold of
people at work, we can work from remote locations. As
a generation, we are further along because we have this. Now.
I go camping and I'm able to dip out for
thirty six hours on a weekend. But like during the week,

(05:28):
You're right, I mean, if somebody has an urgent text
or something, I need to be able to answer that.
Back in the day, I mean, if you didn't have
a car phone and you were on the road somewhere,
you were kind of sol in that regard.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
I can't just sit here and agree with that, because
I there is an absolute sadness to the idea that
we are chained to this technological world that we've developed
for ourselves. We have chained ourselves to it. It's that
there's no denying that reality, and it's sad. It is sad.
But why is it sad? Because there because we're less free,
and I would say we are far less joyful and

(06:01):
happy and present.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
We're definitely less present. I don't want to say joyful
and happiness are directly tied to technology or presence in general,
because I think a lot of people, especially in the
generations below us, they are incredibly joyful and happy when
they have their screen in front of them. They are
able to interact with people through the internet, TikTok, content creation,
that sort of thing. You know, you talk to some

(06:24):
twenty year olds, now, I mean living in front of
a screen is how they're going to make living for
the rest of their lives. In a lot of ways.
They love that. They're happy about that. So I don't
want to tie joyfulness to it. Even though you and
me got to be kids without cell.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Phones, and so we know so I don't know why
we wouldn't tie joyfulness to it.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
You and me can, Matt, but you can't assign that
to people who don't know what that's like.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
It's all relative. But wouldn't you like to give it
to them? And that's why I like this idea. Give
them those four days and maybe you know what will happen.
This is what I wonder will happen. I bet a
bunch of those students will be like, you know what,
this is kind of nice, But what do they do
right now? They can go through the school day and
function just fine because they're generally not going to be
using an electronic device during school anyway, and the school
obviously isn't going to give them their school laptop to

(07:05):
do work on while they're on this little digital fast
It's going to be the old worksheet style or maybe
lecture style, and you take notes or whatever, you do
some math problems. Don't get that calculator out though, you know,
like you got to. Your curriculum has to adjust for
the fact that we are, in a lot of ways
we need this device in order to be fully functional.

(07:26):
So you got to give them homework, or you got
to give them school work. That's going to keep them
away from their electronic devices.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
But what do they do to keep their mind at ease?
Because I would argue and you're saying, like, yeah, it
changed us to work, but at what point, Like they
invented beepers first, right, Like you could get a beeper
or you could install a car phone that would make
it people. It would be capable for people while you
were away from your home phone the only phone that
you had, or you're not at work, for them to

(07:54):
be able to reach you in the event that they
needed to for any reason, whether it was a family
emergency or something tied to work or whatever, or you
needed more information about something. It's not just work. I
mean there's a lot of stuff in my personal life,
Like without this phone, I couldn't see what my sibling
is up to, or what my nieces and nephews, or
if my dad was wanting to come to town or
something like. This allows me to have that conversation and

(08:15):
not me have to be sitting at home next to
my phone to be able to get that phone call.
So I think that there's a usefulness to it. I
just think that we lived in a life that we
couldn't be fully present to the people who weren't present
around us.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
If that makes any sense, you're applying usefulness to our
society today. It was not that long ago that people
didn't really have that same usefulness idea exactly.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
But what I'm saying is because we didn't have that
usefulness idea, stuff was missed. It was harder to get
a hold of people when you needed to get a
hold of them for whatever reason. It doesn't have to
be work related. Like if Grandma ended up in the
hospital and I was at the mall with my mom
and nobody was at home to take that call. It
wasn't until we come home hours later that we're like,
oh man, we better get to grandma's house or to
the hospital to see grandma. You know, nowadays, like I

(09:01):
can get a text the same minute that is happening.
I can be alerted of this, so it's like, you know,
a beeper was the first idea that people has, like, hey,
you're getting a phone call. You need to get to
a phone and call this number quickly, that kind of thing.
And before that, it was just like you had to
live with the fact that you were not going to
know as much as we know now, so I think
that they're useful. But I also think that for four days,

(09:24):
if you can fast, and you can digitally fast for
four days at fourteen years old, which is probably the
average age of these eighth graders, you're going to have
like a withdrawal syndrome for people like these fourteen year
olds probably were. I mean they were in the early
generation of getting a smartphone every time they cried when
they were two, you know, like, oh, kids crying, give
them Little Bear to watch on their cell phone. A

(09:45):
great show. By the way, I don't know what kids
were watching ten years ago, but you know, like that's
the thing, right And I to me, this is going
to be a challenge for them mentally. How do they
distract themselves for four full days without having the capability
of utilizing some electronic device.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
What a wonderful challenge to have. It'll it'll help forge,
I believe, new habits, and it'll be only good for them.
I really think that.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Open the phones. Let's go ahead and talk about this.
If you got some thoughts, or you've done a digital fast,
or your kids have done a digital fast, or you're
interested in the idea, call us at four roh two
five five eight eleven ten. Four oh two five five
eight eleven ten on news Radio eleven ten, Kfab Emery
Sunger on news Radio eleven ten, Kfab how you can
digital fast and what you can do to kind of

(10:32):
occupy your brain in different ways to help build yourself
to a point where you don't have to be reliant
on a cell phone. Well, phone lines are open. Four
two five five eight eleven ten. Bill, Welcome to the
show today. What's on your mind?

Speaker 3 (10:44):
I just love you guys, showy. I'm kind of in
between checking some farm funds on techness site and I
heard this, so you know, wait, I got to stop
here on the heel so you can hear me. Okay,
way back in the in the day, you know, on xophone.
I don't know if you guys remember those. I don't
see the Midland back phones is like kind of like

(11:04):
a little miniature suitcase but it's a phone and it
went off the satellite kind of really back. That's when
I kind of started. I all your listeners are going
to probably be calling in the older guys that remember
all these but yeah, and it's you know, and you
had to pay for it. But that was the way
you talk to your Like when I was driving over
the road, that's the way to talk to your dispatcher.

(11:25):
Otherwise you had to go into the truck stop to
call back home to kind of talk to dis packs
to find out where your next flow to pick up
and whatnot was going to be at. Okay, Emory, Yeah, yeah,
Well so single back in the day, lady friend, what
do you do? You use that phone to talk to
your lady friend? Right? Okay, Well, that death accumulates your minutes,

(11:48):
and minutes turns into longer time and longer time, and
then you're you know, it comes out of your paycheck
and that's just not a free for all. Then you know,
you finally get home in your week check or two
week checks, you know you're kind of minus to three
hundred dollars, and then it's like we cent of a gun?
Is that? You know, here's she I'm out making money
and the girlfriends out don't know what she's doing, but

(12:09):
you're talking to her. And then I kind of wonder,
is that lady really work? Losing two three four hundred
dollars all you out on the road just to talk
to her. But that was kind of like you know,
using the satellite phone that was before. We have all
the towers throughout the whole United States right right right
making it easy for us. Now, you know, I don't know.
You know there's cell phone that use the satellite. I don't.

(12:32):
Maybe your listeners will call in and tell me what
the going rate is to have that phone off the satellite,
like Elon Musk has got his starlink for for using
a dish. I don't know what their going rate is now,
but thank god it's all changed. We have towers that
were to make it cheaper. But yeah, that was my story,
and I decided to get a little humor out of
that with the bagphone. I don't know. Yeah, I think

(12:53):
you guys remember those.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
I don't. I'm sure I've seen them somewhere or seen
movies or something with them, Bill, But it's kind of
funny like that predates, like the pocket cell phone, people
were still clamoring for a way to better communicate with
each other. And I just I one hundred percent agree
with you that, you know, that's just something I think
you and many many other people did when that was

(13:15):
an option. I appreciate the call, Buddy, thanks for listening
to our show took sure, yep, see yeah, that tells me,
you know, Matt, it's a medium. I want to have
this cell phone for the directions and navigation. I want
to have this cell phone to be able to message
somebody when I want to talk to them immediately. I
want to be able to receive messages when they need
to talk to me immediately. I want to be able
to check things or watch TV when I want to

(13:36):
watch them. But there's a level where you cross the
line and you become dependent on having it and you
can't go without it. It like burns your leg when
it's in your pocket and you're not looking at it.
How do we find the medium of using this thing
for the convenience that it gives us when we need it,
and not just use all of our free time by
scrolling on it and just screwing around on it.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
And it's just like any other addiction. There's a moment
when you drink alcohol because it enhances your time. But
then there's a moment there's a switch where you become
a person where you can't have a good time, you
can't even relax, you can't even enjoy who you are
as a person until you have a drink, and that
is the moment when you're not using alcohol to have

(14:20):
a good time, alcohol is using you. And I think
we're I think a lot of people have the same
situation with their technology.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
I mean, it's a fascinating conversation. We'll see how that
goes and what the reports are from those fourteen year
olds in Des Moines that are gonna have to go
without their cell phones and all electronics including television in
front of this hockey game. Though you can't let the
kids watch the hockey game. Come on now, Yeah, I'm
watching some pots terrible timing on that. Yeah, but we'll
see how that goes in if they feel like they've

(14:46):
come out with something new, you know, if you got
thoughts on cell phones, you got thoughts on digital fasting
and whatnot, feel free to call us at four oh
two five to five, eight eleven ten, four h two
five to five, eight eleven ten. We'll talk to you
more here on news radio eleven ten kfa Emery Sunger Angie.
It's on our phone line though, at four o two
five five eight eleven ten. Four two five five eight
eleven ten. Welcome to the show, Angie. How's it going.

Speaker 4 (15:11):
Wonderful except it's so cold.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
Oh yeah, I.

Speaker 4 (15:13):
Would teach these kids how to read the random whatever
mely map, like the old maps that we always add, right,
or a plat map. Does anybody know how to read
a plat map besides people that live in the country.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
I mean I do, But you know, like I just
love geography, right, I mean, and you haven't needed to
write because you could just punch in something and let
you know, Google tell you where to go. I mean, heck,
before that, who owns the property? What do you know?

Speaker 4 (15:42):
Who owns the property? When you google? When you google
something up? Because when you look on the plat map,
you know who owns the property, right.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Oh oh yeah, that's what you're okay, yeah yeah, yeah, yeahah.

Speaker 4 (15:54):
So if you want to go fishing or go hunting
on somebody's property, you know exactly who that property. It's
a good point, and you can get a hold of
them when you're looking at a plat map. But a
lot of people don't know how to bread a plat map.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
That's a good point. I misunderstand what you're talking about. Yeah,
I haven't looked at one of those before, but I'm
generally not a fisher or hunter type. I uh, yeah,
I wonder though if there's a you know, I was
thinking about this too. Is before we had the phones
that you had to print out directions to something you.

Speaker 4 (16:24):
Know, you know, and I did that on the map
quest thing. I definitely did that, and that was more difficult,
but it was better than probably anything else you.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
Had at the time, Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 4 (16:34):
Yeah. But and the other thing, I just wanted to
tell this story really quick.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
So yeah, go for it.

Speaker 4 (16:40):
When I was grown up and I'm older, right, but
I used to detastle corn and walk beans. Right. I
don't know if people will remember this, but I was
at my grandma's one time and I was complaining about
how the awful, awful job of detasseling corn was and
it wasn't a fun job, right, yeah, And my grandma
looked at me and she said, you know, your grandpa

(17:02):
and I used to have to pick corn by hand
with a horse and a wagon just to make money
to pay our you know, our bills. And you know,
I never said anything again. Yes, I mean, it's all
relative of what you're doing, right, But when you think
about what your grandparents had to do or your great

(17:24):
grandparents probably to just make ends meet and how hard
they work, and it's just yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, it instills some gratefulness, is what you're saying.

Speaker 4 (17:38):
Of how the whole technology kind of thing, I think
it just makes it way too easy to just kind
of maybe be a little lazy and not realize what
really people have to do in order to make life
better for you.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
Yeah, for sure, I mean yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
So yeah, it's a good point. Angie. Thanks, thanks for
listening to our show.

Speaker 4 (18:00):
You take care.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
You too. Yeah, I got a I did. I talked
about this quite a bit on my morning show, and
I had a guy sending a text message. You always said,
these people are snowflakes. You can't live with that your
phone a little bit. I mean, remember the days when
you didn't even have indoor plumbing or running water in
your house. And I had to answer to the guy.
Uh No, that was a thing that you know, we

(18:23):
solved with increased technology, so no one had to do
that ever again. So I guess my thing is there's
a way to embrace what our forefathers did or how
they feel about things. But in the same breath, I
wonder the reason that we have the answers to the

(18:43):
questions technologically now that we didn't have before is because
we wanted to make things easier, more convenient, more efficient.
And I don't think that's inherently wrong, and I don't
think that it's really even that applicable to go that
far back and say, well, back in my day, when
I was a young whipper snapper, I could I had

(19:04):
to go to the outhouse, even in like freezing weather
to relieve myself, and I remember my our house didn't
even have electricity, and all of that studden. It was
just like I hear you, But there's a reason nobody
has that now, because we realized that there was a
way to have it, and we didn't just want to
torture ourselves by not having it. You know, all they

(19:27):
had back then was a corn husk and no gold bond.
I think goldbond was still a thing. You had gold bond,
but no electricity that we got that backward.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
Okay, waiter, are you saying there's more chafing in today's society.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
I'm saying that people are a little less aware of
chafing these days, simply because there's so many things to
distract them from it. And our underwear is generally better. Okay,
so Jeremiah is on a phone line four h two
five five, eight eleven ten. Welcome into the show, Jeremiah.
What do you think?

Speaker 5 (19:58):
Well, I was just going to say it. I know,
for when it comes to grades and everything like that,
do you have a certain grade that's or below a
certain grade or whatever, you're on a digital fest, you
lose your cell phone, you lose your TV, everything like
that until those grades are back up. And with the
kids nowadays, even just seeing for my kids, you'd think

(20:20):
they lost a limb.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, well but I mean that's a challenge. I mean
taking the phone away is the equivalent of what it
was like for probably Matt and I to be sent
to our room and we couldn't leave for however long.
Like that's like a true grounding, right because that was
like you feel like you've lost all your freedom at
that point exactly.

Speaker 5 (20:40):
I mean, And my two youngest or nine and ten,
so they don't have phones yet or whatever, but they
have their tablets and they're on and all the time.
We're having to take it away all the time wherever
it's like, no, go read a book something like that,
or where because they're just too dependent on it.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
Yeah, and well you're doing a good job there, Jeremiah,
of trying to avoid them being reliant. Right. That that
balance of having it for the usefulness of the functionality
and also just not feeling like you need it all
the time. It's really interesting to kind of look into that.
I appreciate the call man, yep, thank you all right.
Appreciate everybody for calling in if you'd like to call in.

(21:15):
Four oh two five five eight eleven ten. Four oh two,
five five eight eleven ten. And also guess what we
got emails I talked about it. I will read those
two coming up on news radio eleven ten KFAB. You're
listening to Emory Songer on news radio eleven ten KFAB.

(21:36):
Some emails at Emory at kfab dot com about what
we were talking about with digital fasting, the use of
cell phones, over reliance of children on cell phones, especially
Sarah emails and said, I stopped paying for monthly internet
and I use my smartphone. That's one way to trim
some of the addictive qualities of screen time when I'm
at home and save some money. Also, life pre internet

(21:57):
as a child living in rural America was super healthy
and fun for me, lots of outdoor activities all the time.
Now I appreciate that because that's kind of what my
thought was. Now, this is a difficult time to be
telling kids in the Midwest, hey, don't use technology for
four straight days, because what are you gonna be able
to do outside? Right? But I was thinking about this.
If this was me and I was in eighth grade

(22:18):
and I was being forced to do go on a
four day fast of digital technology or any electronics, you
know what I would do. This is what I do.
I do all my schoolwork or whatever. But you know
what I do. I'll get through today. I'll go to
school tomorrow. After tomorrow, I'm gonna call up my friends.
I'm gonna have you know, five or six friends. We're
all gonna get together at one of our houses and
we're all gonna do a sleepover and we're gonna play

(22:39):
board games. We're gonna play card games. We're gonna talk
about things. We might like drive to the mall or something.
You know, people still go to the mall or shopping centers,
and we're gonna hang out. We're gonna go to restaurants.
We're gonna do stuff even if outside is not perfect.
There are things that you can go do and we
can be present in the moment, to use your word,
very present in who we're around and what we're up to.

(23:02):
And that's what I would do until I got to
the end of this digital fast and I'm sure you're
gonna be able to make good positive memories about that.
Remember that time in eighth grade where we couldn't have
our phones, Man, that was a fun time. We got
to hang out altogether, and there's none of that distraction
that takes you away from each other. Marcus out West says, man,
I love those bag phones. He got coverage everywhere in Nebraska,

(23:22):
although I wasn't allowed to use it unless I needed
picked up or someone was near death because those by
the mimutent charges were nuts. Also, I'm old enough to
remember not using the bagphone and just listening to Rosie
do nightly sports or sports nightly from the tractor while
I waited for somebody to come get me. Shout out,
Jim Rose, there we go. Chris emails it says, I

(23:44):
agree with Matt. It is sad how reliant we are
on this. Tell the kids to play boarding, card games
or something risk Catan Jungle speed and then the you know,
just it's pretty interesting man. A lot of other emails
this Richard says, can you leave your house for a
few hours with out your phone? No, well, then you
are addicted.

Speaker 4 (24:02):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
I don't agree with that because your phone is Like
what if you're on the road and somebody's like hey,
Like like I'm strained. Like if my wife were to
call me and be like, hey, flat tire in the
car right, this is something I just dealt with. Luckily
the flat was in our garage, but like, what if
she was in this weather somewhere else and she had
to call me. You know, nothing's more frustrating than when

(24:23):
I'm trying to call my wife and she doesn't pick
up for whatever reason. I need to talk to you.
I have something I need to relate to you soon,
like immediately. Why aren't you answering the phone. I don't
want to be in an emergency situation not be able
to answer my phone, so I need my phone. But
I do tend to agree that, Well, if you're literally
just unable to stay off of your phone while you're
sitting there and just like hanging out with somebody and

(24:46):
you have to have your phone. You have to keep
checking social media or something. That's a different thing that's addiction.
But I'm not leaving the house without my phone like that.
There's just too many things that I could need to
be alerted of, and I'd like to have the ability
to be alert. Or they did not miss something.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Important somehow, some way, they all got along without it,
did they, though? Remember how people would just leave and
you'd be like bye, and you hope they got to
where they're going, but you didn't know.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
You didn't need to know, You just see them later.
That's all. We have made technological improvements so that doesn't
happen anymore. But I agree there is a line that
can be crossed.