Criminalizing Flag Burning

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
President Trump signed with an executive order yesterday making burning
the American flag a gable offense. I don't know excessive.
Isn't burning the American flag protected by the First Amendment
of the Constitution as free speech? Six one seven sixty
eight sixty eight is the number here six one seven

(00:20):
two six six six 't eight six'. Eight this Is
sandy Shack in For Jeff coooner here on The Kooner.
Report the executive order signed By President trump in The
Oval office with full press and attendance and strucks The
Attorney general, too and this is his, quote vigorously prosecute

(00:42):
people who violate flag desecration laws and to pursue litigation
to clarify the scope of The First amendment regarding the
issue it. Was it was an interesting. MOMENT i have to.
Say it took me by. Surprise maybe it didn't take
a lot of other people by. Surprise but this Was
President trump in The Oval office. Yesterday cut one a,

(01:03):
Please mike.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
To what the penalty is going to. Be if you
burn a, flag you get one year in, jail no early,
exits no.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
Nothing you get one year in.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Jail if you burn a flag you Get and what
it does is insight to write out they use that.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
Language by the, way did the insight to?

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Riot and you burn a, flag you get one year in.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
Jail you don't get ten, years you don't get one.
Month you get one year in, jail and it goes
on your, record and you will see flag burning stopping.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Immediately if there's a year in jail attached to, IT
i think you would in fact see flag burning stop.
Immediately the order signed By trump also directs The Attorney
general to refer flag desecration cases to state or local,
authorities and instructs the administration to prohibit and terminate, visas residence,

(02:00):
permits and naturalization proceedings for those who desecrate the. Flag
so if you are a guest in this country and
hoping to stay and you burn the, flag your dream
will be short. Lived you will not get to you
will not get to. Stay so flag burning has been

(02:21):
litigated at The Supreme court level as a free speech,
level as a free speech issue in the big case
was In june of nineteen eighty, nine when a deeply
DIVIDED Us Supreme court upheld the rights of protesters to

(02:42):
burn The american flag in a landmark First amendment. Decision
it was Called texas Versus, johnson and it was a,
deeply deeply divided. COURT i mean it was razor. Thin
five to four was the decision in favor of a Mister.
Johnson he was the protester who had burned the. Flag johnson's,

(03:03):
actions according to the majority of the court were symbolic,
speech political in, nature and could be expressed even at
the expense of the, flag which is our national, symbol
and very offensive to a lot of people who disagreed
with him and his. Actions, Now Justice William brennan wrote

(03:27):
the majority, decision and he also had on his Side Anthony,
Kennedy Thirdgood Marshal Harry, Blackman. Scalia they were all part
of the. Majority and according To, Brennan johnson was convicted
for engaging in expressive conduct and the state's interest in

(03:47):
preventing breaches of the piece does not support that. Conviction
this is according to The Supreme, court Because johnson's conduct
did not threaten to disturb the, peace so they, said
because burning a flag didn't disturb the, peace there was
no local interest in they couldn't they couldn't stop. Him,

(04:09):
so nor does the state interest in preserving the flag
as a symbol of a nationhood and national unity justify
his criminal conviction for engaging in political. Expression so they
didn't reach the bar That brennan thought they should. Reach
and just As kennedy wrote a concurrence to that and,
said this is this is verbatim what's written in the.

(04:31):
Decision the hard fact is that sometimes we must make
decisions we do not. Like we make them because they
are right right in the sense that the law and
The constitution as we see, them compel the, result and
so great is our commitment to the process that accept
in rare cases we do not pause to express distaste

(04:54):
for the, result perhaps for fear of undermining a valued
principle that dictates the. Decision this is one of those rare.
Cases so he's, saying even though you find it distasteful
to burn the, flag it is right to protect your
right to do. So that's that's how he is he

(05:14):
is holding. Now dissenting Were Justice Chief Justice, Rehnquist John Paul,
Stevens sandrade, O'Connor And Wizzer. White Byron. White rehnquist said
in his dissenting, opinion the flag is not simply another
idea or point of view competing for recognition in the
marketplace of. Ideas he did not agree with the first

(05:36):
that The First amendment invalidates The act Of congress and
the laws of forty eight of the Fifty states which
make criminal the public burning of the. Flag so he
didn't see a conflict between The First amendment and the
burning of the. Flag, now the battle in the courts
about the flag desecration goes back to the turn of

(05:57):
the last. Century around nineteen oh, seven there was a
case Called halter Versus, nebraska which upheld a state law
that prohibited two businessmen from selling beer that had flag
labels on the. Bottles so that's when this whole thing.
Started then in nineteen sixty, Eight congress approved The Federal

(06:18):
Flag Desecration, law and that happened after A Vietnam war,
protest and that law made it illegal to knowingly cast
contempt upon any flag of The United states by publicly mutilating,
it defacing, it defiling, it burning, it or trampling upon.
It and then the court inch closer to the a

(06:42):
nineteen eighty One johnson. Decision in nineteen seventy four in
a case Called spence Versus, washington where they held that
a person couldn't be convicted for using tape to put
a peace sign on An american. Flag they, said that's not.
Desecration decision made it clear that a majority of the

(07:04):
court saw the act as protected expression under The First.
Amendment so fast forward to the nineteen eighties and you've
got greg Y Lee johnson burning a flag at The
Republican National convention In, dallas and officials In texas Arrested
johnson and convicted him of breaking A texas law that

(07:25):
prohibited desecration of the. Flag he was sentenced to a
one year in prison in order to pay a two
thousand dollars. Fine The court Of appeals for The Fifth
district Of texas In dallas affirmed that, conviction but The
Texas court Of Criminal appeals, reversed and then The Supreme
court affirmed The Texas court Of appeals in reaction to

(07:50):
The johnson, decision which only, applied by the, way to
The texas flag desecration law didn't apply anywhere. Else just
it was that narrow a. Decision congress then passed a
national anti flag burning law called The Flag Protection act
of nineteen eighty. Nine so this all happened within months
of each. Other but a year, later in another court

(08:10):
case that WAS us Versus, eichmann the court struck down that,
law The Flag Protection, act as, unconstitutional and that was
another five to four, decision a really close. Decision in that,
Opinion Justice, brennan citing The johnson case from nineteen eighty, nine,
said if there is a bedrock principle underlying The First,
amendment it is that the government may not prohibit the

(08:33):
expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea
itself offensive or. Disagreeable and that, case that, decision and
The johnson case have remained controversial right up until today
yesterday when The president signed to his executive. ORDER i

(08:55):
think back in two thousand and, Six congress tried to
amend The constitution to prohibit flag, desecration but that failed
by one vote in The. Senate so it's always been
a really razor thin majority that has won the one
the day when it comes to allowing flag, burning and

(09:18):
it's it's really a huge issue That President trump has
reopened with his executive order. YESTERDAY i always found it
very interesting That Justice, scalia you, know a, conservative a
conservative legend on The supreme court ruled what he actually

(09:41):
cast the deciding vote in The johnson case that allowed flag,
burning and he was asked in one of his last
public events to explain why he did, that and he
said he explained citing the principle of a textual reading
of The First, amendment because that's he was a straight.
Constructionist he, said if it were up to, ME i

(10:03):
would put in jail every sandal, wearing scruffy bearded wirdo
who burns The american. Flag BUT i am not, king
and that's what it comes down. To you may find
burning the flag. Abhorrent you MAY i if you're like.
ME i was raised by my mother with strict flag.
Etiquette how to fold the, flag what to do with
a flag that is has aged itself out and is

(10:27):
starting to, wear how to how to you, know get
rid of a. Flag and we didn't burn, them you,
know we took them to the NEAREST. Vfw AND i
was raised to respect and hold the flag. Sacred but
The constitution says The First amendment is more important than,

(10:49):
That and so far there have been just enough people
to support your right to burn the. Flag Did President
trump do the right thing yesterday when he signed in
a executive order basically burning the flag a jailable. Offense
this Is Sandy, shack by the, way filling in For Jeff.
Cooner President trump yesterday signed an executive order making it

(11:12):
a criminal offense to burn The american flag with a
when your jail sentence attached to? It do you agree
with his executive? Order And i'm making up the poll
question today which is sponsored By Mario's Quality, Roofing siding And,
windows which you can take on x at The Kooner
report or on our website w rkos Slash. Coooner do

(11:37):
you agree With President trump's executive order making burning the
flag a criminal? Offense didn't The Supreme court already deal
with this issue decades? Ago and AS i was talking
to you just before the, Break Justice, scalia the deciding,
vote said he didn't like. It he found burning the flag,

(11:59):
abhorrent but he said The constitution said you can do,
it and since he was not, king he wasn't going
to go against The. Constitution Is President trump setting himself
up as king in this instance with his order ignoring
both The Supreme court and The constitution in making burning

(12:20):
the flag ajailable? Offense do you agree with what he's.
Done lawrence And. Maldon welcome TO. Wrko how are, You
Lawrence holy.

Speaker 4 (12:30):
MACKEREL i can't BELIEVE i got In, okay Love President? Trump?

Speaker 1 (12:35):
Okay do you agree with it?

Speaker 4 (12:37):
All? Four not one year in a, day five years
in a? Day you burn off? FLAG i lost And
i'm blowing a grandfather in war defending this. Country And
i'm so upset right. NOW i don't want to lose

(12:58):
my Track, anyways my name, again everyone in the city
to hand. ME i had a big hot you do
down at the police station? Yesterday what about seven offices
and the?

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Chief, Okay, LAWRENCE i got to stop. You i'm NOT
i can't USE i can't let you use this as
a personal platform to go over what happened to you.
Yesterday And, lawrence we asked a very specific question about
whether burning the flag is okay or. Not if you
can confine yourself to, that then then we're.

Speaker 4 (13:29):
Good Lawrence auto garage In, malden AND i paid for
the flagpole across the street from the, garage uh. Huh
and the city the mayiam won't allow me to put
the Police american flag up on.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
The FLAG i put it up in front of your. Garage,
yep right in.

Speaker 4 (13:49):
Front it's on the city island THAT i maintained that
they put across from my. GARAGE i bought it in
nineteen eighty, four the garage at twenty seven without a
high school. Education, yeah and because of the. Flag they
don't like the idea of the police flag up on the,
pole and they come down and they keep taking it
down on.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
Me do they let you keep The american flag up
on the?

Speaker 4 (14:11):
Pole, yeah they want they want the red one on the,
talk which is, Okay and THEN i put the police
flag below it with the blue. Stripe they continuously come
and harass me to take down the. Flag they take my,
flags they won't give them, back AND i got to
continue to buy them on my.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Own why why do they tell you that you can't
put The what is their? Reasoning what do they say
to you when they take your police?

Speaker 4 (14:35):
Flag this mayor In, maldon he created this pea click thing,
online see something click on the, computer and so many
people do not support the.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
Police, Okay, LAWRENCE i still don't understand why he. Won't
is it just Because malden don't like? Police is that
what you're?

Speaker 4 (14:56):
Saying, well the. Maya the maya is he supports the gay.
Flag he could put the gay flag, up BUT i.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
CAN'T i, SEE i get. It so he only lets
you put flags up that he. CAN'T i appreciate, That
but you. Can't you can't use this as a as
a as a personal platform to docs or out. PEOPLE
i can't let you do. That BUT i think THAT i.
DON'T i think that's. HORRIBLE i think you either let

(15:31):
everybody put whatever group flags up they, want or you
don't put any flags up other than The american. FLAG
i think that is completely and utterly. Discriminatory AND i
understand your. Ire thank you for the, Call. LAWRENCE i
appreciate it very. Much let's go To dave In. Dorchester,
dave do you believe that the that The president did

(15:51):
the right thing and signing an executive order making it
ajailable offense to burn The american? Flag, SANDY i love, It,
Okay so it doesn't bother you that The Supreme court
has already said, no you can't do.

Speaker 5 (16:08):
That you, KNOW i look, Good, seidney WHEN i think
about this whole.

Speaker 6 (16:14):
Scenario you, know the flag represents The United states Of.
America it represents all the veterans of The United states
who went to the wars During World War, One World war,
two all the other wars we have to deal. With

(16:34):
it represents the freedom of the, country and anybody who
wants to burn the flag should be locked up put
in jail for a year because they have no right
to burn the. Flag they want to, say, oh it's
part of a protest and The First amendment and all
that freedom of. Speech, no it lives in freedom of.

(16:55):
Speech it's des acration and it's an insult to The american,
people and especially the fact Of World war, One World war, Two, Vietnam.
Siddy my dad was at The battle of The, boat
my mother was At Coro, haba my older brother was In.
Vietnam it would be an insult to them today.

Speaker 7 (17:16):
If they knew what was going on. Today with the
way people want to disgrace the, flag it's not all
right to do, it not.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Just, Today. DAVE i, mean this whole thing. Started this
issue started because of The Vietnam war protests where they
were burning the. Flag but here's the. THING i find
it abhorrent, Too so Does Justice so Did Justice scalia
find it, abhorrent And i've BEEN i was raised to
treat the flag with respect and hold it as a sacred, object,
basically but The constitution says. Otherwise and The Supreme court

(17:45):
has already decided. This so when you are when you
are saying you disagree That President trump can do, this
and he's flying in the face of The Supreme, court
aren't you saying That Supreme court decisions mean? Nothing so
why do we?

Speaker 7 (17:58):
Care it's A Supreme.

Speaker 6 (18:02):
Court it's saying that they don't care if people want.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
To they decided. This dave in nineteen eighty, Nine Sandy
shack is sitting in For Jeff cooner here on The Kooner,
report and just before the, break a hard, break by the,
way we're not allowed to we can't stretch those. Out
we were talking To dave In, dorchester whose entire family
has served in the military and defended our country and
finds a flag burning. Abhorrent AND i completely agree with, You,

(18:29):
DAVE i do. Too but The Supreme court has already
decided this issue back in nineteen eighty. Nine that's over
thirty years. Ago and, basically according to the, law it's
okay to burn the flag even if you find it
disgusting LIKE i. Do like you. Do and here's my
issue with, This. Dave The democrats take a lot of, hits,

(18:52):
rightly so for picking and choosing the laws that they
want to. Obey they only will enforce ones that they
want to anything. Else that's that's that gets in the
way of pol political expediency for. Them they like to.
Ignore isn't that What President trump is doing right? Now
isn't he ignoring a law that he doesn't?

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Like?

Speaker 1 (19:12):
Dave, Dave, Yes i'm, sorry did you hear? Me?

Speaker 5 (19:21):
Yes And, sandy you know.

Speaker 8 (19:26):
It's THE nod has no matter who wants to change,
one nobody has the right and you know what they
should be, Regularly, dave.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
You're, ignoring you're ignoring my. Question my question is there
is a law that exists, now it's a presidential law
in the books that says you can and even the
huge strong conservatives of the nineteen eighty Nine Supreme court
said we hate, this but we have no choice and
signed it into. Law congress has had an opportunity to

(19:59):
overturn that. Law they. Haven't so Isn't President trump picking
and choosing the laws that he wants to? Follow and
isn't that one of our main complaints against The democrats
that they do the same. Thing, well the whole.

Speaker 6 (20:13):
Thing The democrats don't. Care The democrats don't care What
Donald trump wants to try to do because he's always.

Speaker 9 (20:20):
Trying to do the right.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Thing, well but here's the, Problem. Dave is he doing
the right thing here because there is a, law it.
Exists it's not as if there's a, vacuum there is no.
Law there is a law that specifically says you. Can
and his executive, order which is not passed By, congress
Says i'm going to jail you if you do. It

(20:42):
so isn't He isn't he doing something that we decry
The democrats for. Doing isn't this? Hypocritical what?

Speaker 6 (20:54):
HYPOCRITICAL cnd is that this is A, melica this Is,
america and it's like people should.

Speaker 7 (21:02):
Be proud of the.

Speaker 5 (21:03):
FLAG i, Agree, okay.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
YEAH i don't have A i do not have a
problem with people being proud of the. FLAG i do.
NOT i find it disgusting to burn the. FLAG i
find it. Appalling BUT i am A First amendment, absolutist
and if The First amendment says that you, can you,
can and it's not me that says The First amendment
says that it's The Supreme court that says, that so

(21:27):
don't we have to abide by. It thank you for the, Call.
DAVE i appreciate that this is a very emotional personal
issue for, you but you're not answering my question, basically
and that essentially is Is President trump doing what he
and myself And Jeff cooner and a lot of other
people Accused democrats of, doing and that is picking the

(21:49):
law that he wants to. Follow and hasn't this already been?
Adjudicated diane In New, Hampshire welcome TO. Wrko how are You? Diane?

Speaker 5 (22:01):
Hi?

Speaker 9 (22:03):
Hi, YEAH i was just calling because you, KNOW i
agree it With President. Trump maybe we need it's time
for new. Laws then maybe they should pass a. Law
first of, all two points, ONE i need a permit
WHENEVER i burn a fire in my backyard even SO

(22:23):
i can't imagine people lighting up fires in the middle
of the street and that's. Okay so, that first of,
all is another law they're probably breaking and everyone just ignores.
It and the other thing is it's a hate. Crime
it's literally they want to set us on. Fire they
hate this, country they want to burn it. Up it's
a hate. Crime they literally hate this, country and it

(22:47):
seems like a terrorism act of terrorism when they want
to destroy and burn. Something it's not free speech to,
me that is not free. Speech free speech is supposed
to be non.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
Violent, yeah, NO i, agree AND i find. It but
the problem that we have is that it's it's we
are a law of. NATIONS i, mean we are a
nation of. LAWS i got that. COMPLETELY i got the
completely mixed. Up we are a nation of, laws and
we have laws on the books for a. Reason and

(23:20):
one of the laws on the books is a presidential,
law meaning that The Supreme court has ruled on it
and has said that it can you can in fact
burn a, flag and specifically they said and while it
only addressed The texas law desecration, law basically it's said

(23:41):
that That texas's interest in preventing breaches of the, peace
which is what you're talking, about you, know burning a
flag in. Public basically preserving the flag is a symbol
of nationhood and national unity does not justify a criminal
conviction for aging and political. Expression they did not view

(24:03):
burning a flag as. Terrorism they viewed it as political.
Expression there is a there is presidential law The Supreme
court has said THAT i may not agree with. That
you may not agree with. That so what is the
answer if we don't agree with. It the answer is
to pass a law, Saying, okay we do find it
an act of, terrorism we do find it a hate.

(24:24):
Crime so this is what's going to happen to you
if you burn a. Flag But congress hasn't done, that
and they've had over thirty years to do. That they've
come close to doing, it you, know but they haven't
managed to do. It so Can President trump just override
both the will of the, people which is represented By
congress and A Supreme court precedent which has been established

(24:47):
for over thirty years with an executive? Order isn't that
a little hypocritical whether or not you like burning of
the whether or not you support burning of the. FLAG
i don't support burning of the, Flag. DIANE i THINK
i find it. APPALLING i really, do AND i find it.
Disgusting AND i AND i pretty much agree with you
that it's an act of. Terrorism but the law doesn't
find it that. Way so Doesn't President trump have to

(25:10):
follow the? Law?

Speaker 9 (25:12):
OH i agree that if it's a, Law, yeah we
all have to follow the, law but maybe it's time
for new. Legislation THEN i don't disagree with.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
THAT i don't disagree with that at, all the.

Speaker 9 (25:22):
Law but as for like starting fires on the sidewalk
in the middle of the, STREET i think that's already.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
Illegal and nobody says that this has to do with
burning a flag in the middle of the street that
this IS i, mean it can be, nobody nobody is out.
There that's not what that's not what this. Says that's
not what his executive order. Says it's there is Are you're,
right absolutely, Right there is a law that you can't
burn things in. Public it depends on where you. Live

(25:51):
some places don't have that, law some places. Do, SO i,
mean what we're not talking about that we're talking about
In President trump's executive. Order it doesn't matter where you
burned the. Flag so if you burned the flag in
your backyard and your town doesn't have a you, know
no fire zone zoning, issue you can still go to

(26:13):
jail for a year because you burned the. Flag say
you burned the flag in your fire pit in your
backyard and took a video of it and put it
up for political, expression then THE fbi can come and
arrest you for a year and you, know put you
in jail for your if you're. Convicted that's what this
executive order. Says now you may agree with, that that that's,
okay that that that that should be with the. Laws

(26:33):
but don't we have to change the law first to
make that a criminal.

Speaker 9 (26:37):
Offense yeah they, Should, yeah they should make a. Law
then they should pass the legislation and make it a.
Law but it absolutely is an act of. Terrorism it's
like an attack on our. Country and then the communists
love to hide behind our. Constitution we know they. Do

(26:57):
they use it against us all the. Time, yes yes they.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
Do AND i think you have an absolutely good point. There,
yeah know that you're, right AND i think those are
all the reasons to support a law that makes it
a jailable offense to burn the. FLAG i think if
that's what you want to, do BUT i think it
takes an act Of congress to do. That thank you so, Much.
DIANE i appreciate the. Call let's talk To anthony In. Plainville,

(27:22):
Anthony good, morning how are, you? Sir good, Morning.

Speaker 10 (27:26):
Sandy i'm really glad you're touching on this topic. TODAY
i do agree With President. Trump BUT i think there's some.

Speaker 5 (27:32):
Context THAT i don't believe you've touched on.

Speaker 10 (27:35):
Yet, OKAY i watched the press, conference and the REASON
i don't believe he's he's signed this executive order because
he's permitting just the burning of the, flag but he's
he's he wants to permit the or restrict what happens
after he did say in his press conference that the
burning of the, flag it kind of stirs up violence

(27:57):
on both, sides both people that are pro burning of
the flag and anti burning of the.

Speaker 7 (28:01):
Flag and while.

Speaker 10 (28:03):
It is a, rule it is a law that it
is the freedom of, SPEECH i Think President trump sees
it as. Arson he sees it as a way to
establish a reason for people to become, violent, protesting, rioting
burning of the flag kind of leads to more. Violence
AND i Think President trump he's the most anti, war

(28:25):
anti violent president of our. Lifetime and by.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
It i'm sorry we have to hold you there because the,
Break BUT i think you're making an excellent, Point. Anthony
this Is Sandy shack sitting in For Jeff kooner here
On The Kooner, report and we're Discussing President trump's executive
order criminalizing the burning of The american. Flag this issue
was decided in nineteen eighty nine by The Supreme court
who said it was, abhorrent but you can do it

(28:51):
as an expression of free. Speech and to, me that
ends the question Unless congress basically brings up or or
enacts another law saying, otherwise which they haven't. Done they
have tried to a couple of, times but they have not.
Succeeded and so to, Me President trump is ignoring the

(29:14):
law when he assigned this executive. Order now before the,
break we were talking To anthony And, plainville who raised
the point that What President trump was worried about was
the was violence that is flamed inflamed and no pun

(29:35):
intended by the burning of the. Flag and that's what
this executive order was. About and in signing the executive,
Order President, trump you, know which is kind of skirting
around the nineteen eighty Nine texas. V johnson, case he

(29:56):
said that the court in that case had not ruled
that burning the flag in a manner that can incite
a riot or violence is constitutionally. Protected so he's finding
a what he views as a loophole in that particular.
Case you can hear it from his own. Mouth cut number. One, please.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
All over the, country they're burning. Flags all over the,
world they burn The american, flag and as you, know
through a very sad. COURT i guess it was a
five to four. Decision they called it freedom of. Speech
but there's another, reason which is perhaps much more. Important
it's called. Death because what happens when you burn a

(30:44):
flag is the area goes. Crazy if you have hundreds
of people that go, crazy you can do other. Things
you can burn this piece of, paper you, can but
when you burn The american, flag it incites riots at
levels that we've ever seen. Before people go.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
Equations so that's basically what he is. Saying is is
the reasoning for his executive order because violence ensues when
you burn a, flag and so therefore he wants to
find it as a you, know as a define it
as a criminal offense to avoid. VIOLENCE i applaud the,

(31:22):
motivation but that doesn't change the fact that for me
that it's been adjudicated and to make it criminal a criminal,
offense you need to go To congress on the text
line seven zero four seven zero is the text. Line
let's see seven eighty, one Says. Sandy other contentious decisions
have been revisited fifty years later and. Overturned. Absolutely but

(31:45):
this is not a case of The court overturning a previous.
Decision this is an executive order being signed in the
face of that earlier. Decision it's not up to The
president to overturn The Supreme. Court it's up to The
Supreme court to overturn The Supreme. Court that's what happens
In row Versus. Wade that's how legal precedent. Works you

(32:07):
can't have another branch of government overturning that case unless
they codify something specifically tailor that does not fly in
the face of the earlier. Decision and that's what they
would have to. Do congress would have to do for
flag burning seven eight one, SAYS i don't agree with
burning the, flag BUT i do believe in Your First.
Amendment but step back and look at it this. Way

(32:29):
IF i burn a gray rainbow, flag a gay rainbow,
FLAG i get arrested for a hate. Crime but burn
The american flag and. Nothing and the same sentiment is
in another nine seven, eight which, SAYS i find it
disturbing that it's perfectly fine to say you Hate america
and burn The american flag and face zero. Consequences, however
if you were to burn a rainbow flag or a
trance flag or A blm flag in the same, manner

(32:50):
you would face severe, consequences including hate crime. CHARGES i
agree with you that those are very bad, situations that
those are hypocritical, situations that a flag that you hold,
sacred The american, flag should be held to a higher
standard than political flags such as THE blm flag or

(33:15):
the Gay pride flag or rainbow flag or whatever flag you.
WANT i agree with you those are. Bad those are
bad situations and bad applications in the. Law but does
that mean that you should make another bad application of
the law in order to make it more palatable to.
YOU i don't like flag burning period in particularly The

(33:36):
american flag. BURNING i find it absolutely soul. CRUSHING i
find it. Abhorrent but The Supreme court has said you
can do, it that it is protected by The First
amendment of The, constitution which And i'm getting another text,
saying where are the constitutions that say that The First
amendment doesn't specify specific instances of flag. Burning what it

(33:59):
says this is political expression is allowed under The First,
amendment not only allowed but celebrated under The First, amendment
and The Supreme court is held at burning a flag
is a political expression and therefore covered by The First.
Amendment that's what our current laws. Say so For President,

(34:20):
trump even though his motivation is the best motivation to
prevent violence that may occur after burning the, flag there
are a lot of things that create violent response to.
It and this has already been codified as a legal.
Expression so Isn't President trump being hypocritical by going against

(34:43):
The Supreme court when in fact he ridicules people who
don't follow the laws put out by The Supreme. Court
that's one of my. Points let's go To janice In.
Melrose janis welcome TO. Wrko how are you Find how are?

Speaker 11 (35:00):
You seems LIKE i disagree with a lot of your,
callers BUT, i as a, CONSERVATIVE i support What Justice scalia.
Said The constitution gives us the right to protest the,
government and to, me that should come before. EVERYTHING i
don't like burning of the. FLAG i didn't even like
kneeling for the. Flag but we have to consider that

(35:26):
we're not always going to Have President trump in The White,
house and what presidents are we? Setting AND i think
back to The biden administration where they shut down free
speech DURING covid because it didn't agree with the official
state line that they wanted to put. Out and if
we set this president now and say well we'll ignore

(35:46):
the right to protest the government because other things are more,
important then you'll have a progressive in The White. House we'll, say,
well preserving democracy is more. Important so your speech mad
inside of, Riot we're going to shut you, down OR
i just we have to consider the constitution should be?

Speaker 2 (36:06):
It and.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
What say you you're a strict constructionist Like scalia. Is
Like i'm a strict constructionist as. Well so you're basically
saying the slippery slope is being ignored By President trump
and people who are supporting that executive order because h
once once it's once you outlaws something because it might cause,
violence then you are opening a Huge pandora's box of

(36:32):
anything you don't, like you can claim is going to cause,
violence and you can make it. Illegal that's your.

Speaker 11 (36:37):
Position the preachers who are outside abortion clinics and they're,
peaceful BUT i could see where they could, say, well
this mind inside. Violence so you're you, know within a,
jail you if you do this OR i just to,
me we have the right to protest the, government and
how does that make us any better than Communist? China

(36:59):
if if people can't protest the, government we have that,
right AND i think we need to preserve that.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
Right BUT i completely agree with, You. JANIS i think
that that is besides the flying in the face of
legal president. ISSUE i think your your argument of we
have to protect free, speech and particular protect our free
speech as it goes toward protesting our, government even if
you find that form, appalling WHICH i, do which you,

(37:30):
do must be. Protected AND i completely agree with. YOU
i think that is what a lot of. People your
point is what a lot of people are losing sight,
of and That President, trump while you may agree with
this particular, incantation this particular version of a inciting, violence

(37:53):
therefore must stop. Argument what happens when he's no longer
in The White? House what happens If mondami, is If
mamdani is in The White. HOUSE i, MEAN i can't
even imagine that. Happening it's a horrific. Idea but what
happens if that's what happens in fifteen twenty, years then
he can make saying, hey are you a communist? Illegal

(38:17):
you can't mention the word. Communism you can't mention because
it might incite. VIOLENCE i think that argument is absolutely
the rock bad argument Against President trump's executive, order no
matter how well meaning it. IS i don't think anybody
disagrees That President trump means well, here that there is

(38:41):
there is a larger, purpose but behind him signing that executive,
order AND i completely agree with him that the flag
is a sacred. Thing and the court's decision was very
narrow it was five to. Four and the congressional attempts
to hold to pass desecration laws have been very narrowly.

(39:01):
Defeated but it's they've still been. Defeated that's the. Problem
they have still been. Defeated and until you can pass
something that's going to hold that. Up until the all
The american people can agree that that this should be
a jailable, offense this should be a criminalized, offense you

(39:22):
just can't sign it into law and not be hypocritical
and in my, Esteem, derek and thank you for the
call very. Much JANIS i appreciate. It derek and cohas?
It do you agree With President trump's executive order to
criminalize burning the. Flag, NO i do.

Speaker 7 (39:40):
NOT i agree with, You. Sadie as you, said it's
the first it's the First, amendment and you, know people
have the right to do. It you. Can't you can't
set making laws based on what people might do as
far as rioting and crimes. Concerned you to answer your

(40:00):
questions that you asked that one of the gentlemen, before
if he refused to answer, It, Yes trump is being
hypocritical by by by doing, this you. Know BUT i
support burning the, flag but let's be honest. TOO i
think it's time we have a flag That america can stand.

(40:23):
Behind you, know The american flag carries a lot of
controversy with, it the same way The confederate flag does
the same way The nazi flag. DOES i mean it's
TIME i think that we we create a flag That
american people can get, behind BECAUSE i think that's the
big that's the problem that we're that we need to to.

(40:46):
Rectify people are burning the flag because they don't support.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
It you, know, WELL i don't agree with you in that, Respect.
Derek first of, ALL i don't think that The american
flag is commensurate with the confessed rich flag or The nazi.
FLAG i think that that's that to, me is just
a ridiculous, notion to be honest with, you and somewhat. Offensive,
ACTUALLY i don't think it has anything to. Nobody nobody

(41:13):
looks at The american flag and things confederacy Or, nazis
AND i don't think people's issues are with the. FLAG
i think their issues are with the policies of The american,
government and the flag is the nearest emblem they have
to respond. To, SO i think The american flag means
different things to different people depending on which administration is

(41:33):
in is in. Power, so and when you want to
change The american, flag what is it that you would
rather see than the stars and, Stripes.

Speaker 7 (41:42):
Well say THE i Would i'd like to see something
that eccludes. EVERYONE i, mean, look.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
How does the stars and stripes not include? Everybody you
haven't told.

Speaker 9 (41:50):
Me.

Speaker 7 (41:53):
I'll tell. You during, slavery of, times it was The
american flag that was. Flying during The Civil rights movement
when the police officers were beating up, blacks it was
it was The american flag that was, flying The american
flags on the chests of the police. Officers that, flag
unfortunately carried the same condinations that The confederate flag. Does

(42:21):
it's just as, bad you, know and people don't think
of it that. Way but when the black people were
being you, know tortured under the civil during the fifties
of the, sixties it was The american flag that was their.
Sandy how could that not be seen as? Racist obviously
the people don't see that way because the leaders have

(42:42):
not told them that.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
Yet and they haven't told them.

Speaker 7 (42:45):
Yet they haven't told them what to think. Yet but
when they when they finally, do then The american people
will be, like, yeah you know, what that flag is.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
RACIST i, Don't, derek to be honest with, YOU i
don't believe under any, circumstances even even the died in
the world democrats are aren't saying that the flag is.
Racist that flag was also on the uniforms of the
soldiers In World war, One World war, two The Iraq,
war and and all the other wars where we have

(43:13):
liberated other countries from. Fascism that that flag has flown
over wonderful things as well as terrible. Things it represents
a country there is it is not representative of, racism
and to see it as, SUCH i think you have
to have a particularly jaded viewpoint of the flag and the.

(43:34):
Country AND i think you have to be looking for
racism in order to see it that. Way SO i
don't agree with you at. All and you still haven't
described to me a flag that you would find and
without these you, know big, overarching well flag that represents. Everybody, well,
physically what are you talking? ABOUT i, mean how are
the stars and, stripes which represent the states and the original?

(43:56):
Colonies how are those not representative of? Everybody? Now what
would you physically change in the? Flag what is the
flag that you would like to? See And i'm not
talking about these ephemeral. Ideas i'm talking about, physically what
would you like to see as the?

Speaker 7 (44:12):
Flag, well you, KNOW i probably would like to see
a flag similar to the Gay prize, flag probably a rainbow.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
Flag you think that's a better representation in The United.
STATES i do each their, own you, Know. OKAY i
think it's highly unlikely that the stars and stripes would
ever be, basically you, know supplanted by the rainbow. Flag
but and but if we put it up to a,
VOTE i think you'll. Lose but everybody's entitled to their.
Opinion thank you so, Much. DEREK i appreciate it very.

(44:48):
Much let's talk with let's, See oh my, heavens we
have full. Fallons and when a collar drops, off by the,
way it means the line has opened up for. You
six one seven, two, six, six sixty eight sixty eight
is a number. Here let's talk To john In. Peabody,
John welcome TO. Wrko how are, you, sir.

Speaker 5 (45:06):
Jol good, Morning. Sandy how are?

Speaker 8 (45:08):
You i'm.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
Fine so do you Think President trump has done the
right thing by signing the executive order criminalizing burning the? Flag?

Speaker 5 (45:15):
YEAH i think with maybe just a, fine not jail,
time because let's talk about one, word AND i think
one word has spocked controversy right from the very, beginning
and that word is, allegiance the pleasure of, allegiance, okay
which means you're committing to a subordinate and one leader
running in. Office so MAYBE i know it may not,

(45:38):
happen not in my, lifetime but maybe instead of just
SAYING i pledge my honor to the flag of The
United states Of america in that, way LIKE i, says
you're not committing to, say a, king a, ruler someone
who forces you to like. Him you can walk right
by the, president not shake his hand and still pay.

(45:59):
Taxes you know WHAT i. Mean you don't have to like, them.
Yep but the idea is you do show, pride you
show honor for people far for this country with one,
word and allegiance means you bowing to. Somebody AND i
don't think that's. CORRECT i don't think that's. RIGHT i
think basically you want to show the world of, freedom

(46:19):
but you want to show it respectfully so people feel
a little bit of. Pride but you you basically eliminate
something that you know puts you in chains or it's
some type of boot camp word that just doesn't push
you into liking something and being fined for.

Speaker 7 (46:35):
It that's a.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
Very interesting, TAKE i must, Say, JOHN i DON'T i
don't disagree with your word of of your utilizing the word,
allegiance AND i don't disagree with what people perceive the flags.
Meaning my problem just besides the fact THAT i think

(46:59):
that From melrose put her finger on it when she's,
taught when she talked about you have to be very
careful even making things finable under one, president because that
can be expanded under the next. President and you have
to be very careful with your free speech. Rights BUT
i think that my big issue with all of this

(47:22):
is the fact that there is A Supreme court case
that says you can do this and it's not finable
and it's not, jailable that it's a complete it's under
a political, expression and even a, fine to me is
an erosion into Your First amendment. Rights If, congress who

(47:44):
is who are theoretically supposed to be the voice of the,
people decide that they want to amend That First amendment
to include or to exclude flag, desecration then so be.
It that's the decision of the. Country but that hasn't happened.
Yet so Is President trump OVERSTEPPING i guess this is
the question regardless of whether you think it's wrong to burn,

(48:06):
flags WHICH i think it, is but it's still not,
criminal and a fine is still a, criminal a criminal,
punishment whether you, know it doesn't have to be, jail
it can be you, know what if it's a two
thousand dollars. Fine what if it's a ten thousand dollars, Fine,
JOHN i, mean wouldn't you find that that would be
soul crushing for? People and maybe ten years from now

(48:27):
it's not the ten thousand dollars fine isn't attached attached
to burning the. Flag it's attached to saying you didn't
vote for somebody or this group is. Crazy what if
it's attached to, that doesn't that worry?

Speaker 5 (48:40):
You, Well, shady you make a very good point about
like it says the fine. Itself it's just people eat
to The no one understands someone burns a flag doesn't
mean they want to burn the country. Down does it mean?
No they just stating That i'm not committing my heart
and my life to a, leadership a leadership that first,

(49:05):
OFF i don't trust a. LEADERSHIP i. Don't it's just
it's a. Statement.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
Yeah and you're saying it's not doesn't mean, terrorism it means. Dissatisfaction, yeah.

Speaker 5 (49:14):
Exactly and it's LIKE i, said the one word that
would change most of.

Speaker 7 (49:20):
IT i think our.

Speaker 5 (49:22):
PRIDE i pledged my pride to the.

Speaker 7 (49:25):
Flag.

Speaker 5 (49:25):
Yeah and THEN i think it would simmer down, that you,
know acceptance.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
A little, bit and get rid of the idea of
bondage to the.

Speaker 5 (49:35):
Flag exactly. Exactly, WELL i think that makes sense at.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
All it does make, Sense, John AND i think that's
very well thought. Out AND i think that that's an
interesting idea and might change some people's viewpoint of what
the flag. Means and maybe that was part of What
derek And cohassett was finding having an. Issue and when
he was calling the flag, racist maybe it was not

(50:00):
the flag so much is what you're talking, about the
allegiance to the. Flag maybe if it was more of
a you, KNOW i, pledge you, know my loyalty and
support or my support for the. Flag but it doesn't
mean no matter what you. Know in other, words it
doesn't mean if there's a corrupt administration that, that you,

(50:23):
Know i'm held at the same. Standard maybe that would
make a difference to people