Flag Burning Crackdown

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Boston's Bulldozer operates seven days a week. The Kuoner Report
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Speaker 2 (00:08):
President Trump signed in an executive order yesterday making burning
the American flag a jelable offense. I don't know excessive.
Isn't burning the American flag protected by the First Amendment
of the Constitution as free speech? Six one seven two
sixty eight sixty eight is the number here, six one

(00:28):
seven two six six six' eight six.' eight This is
Sandy shack In For jeff coooner here On The. Kooner
report the, executive order Signed By president trump In The
oval office with full press, and attendance Instructs The attorney,
general too and this is, his quote vigorously prosecute people

(00:51):
who violate flag desecration laws and to pursue litigation to
clarify the scope Of The first amendment regarding the Issue
was it was an. INTERESTING moment i have. To say
it took me. By surprise maybe it didn't take a
lot of other people, by surprise but This Was president
trump In The oval. Office yesterday cut one, A, please mike.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
What the penalty is going? To be if you burn?
A flag you get one year, In jail no, early exits.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
No nothing you get one year.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
In jail if you burn, a flag You get and
what it does is insight to. WRITE it i hope
they use.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
That language by, the way did the insight?

Speaker 1 (01:33):
To riot and you burn, a flag you get one year.
In jail you don't get, ten years you don't get.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
One month you get one year, in jail and it
goes on, your record and you will see flag burning.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Stopping immediately.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
If there's a year in jail attached, TO it i
think you would in fact see flag burning. Stop immediately
the order Signed by trump also Directs The attorney general
to refer flag desecration cases to state or local authorities
and in stracks the administration to prohibit and, terminate, visas,

(02:08):
residents permits and naturalization proceedings for those who desecrate. The,
flag so if you are a guest in this country
and hoping to stay and you burn, the flag your
dream will be. Short lived you will not get to
you will not get. To stay so flag burning has

(02:29):
been litigated At The supreme court level as a free,
speech level as a free. Speech issue In the big
case Was in june of nineteen eighty nine when a
DEEPLY Divided Us supreme court upheld the rights of protesters

(02:50):
to Burn the american flag in A Landmark first. Amendment
decision it Was called Texas, versus johnson and it was
a deeply deeply. DIVIDED court, i mean it was. Razor
thin five to four was the decision in favor of A.
Mister johnson he was the protester who had burned. The flag,

(03:11):
johnson's actions according to the majority, the court were, symbolic
speech political, in nature and could be expressed even at
the expense of, the flag which is our, national symbol
and very offensive to a lot of people who disagreed

(03:32):
with him and. His, Actions Now Justice william brennan wrote the,
majority decision and he also had on His Side, anthony
kennedy A Third Good Marshal Harry. Blackman scalia they were
all part of. The majority and According, To brennan johnson
was convicted for engaging in expressive conduct and the state's

(03:55):
interest in preventing breaches of the piece does not support.
That conviction, this is according To The, supreme Court because
johnson's conduct did not threaten to disturb, the peace so,
they said because burning a flag didn't disturb. The peace
there was no local Interest in They couldn't they couldn't.

(04:17):
Stop him so nor does the state interest in preserving
the flag as a symbol of nationhood and national unity
justify his criminal conviction for engaging in. Political expression so
they didn't reach the Bar that brennan thought they. Should
reach and Just as kennedy wrote a concurrence to that,

(04:37):
and said this is this is verbatim what's written in.
The decision the hard fact is that sometimes we must
make decisions we do. Not like we make them because
they are right right in the sense that the law
And the constitution as we, see them compel, the result
and so great is our commitment to the process that

(04:58):
accept in rare cases we do not pause to express
distaste for, the result perhaps for fear of undermining a
valued principle that dictates. The decision this is one of those.
Rare cases so, he's saying even though you find it
distasteful to burn, the flag it is right to protect

(05:19):
your right to. Do so that's that's how he is he.
Is holding now Dissenting Were Justice Chief, Justice Rehnquist John,
Paul stevens sandrade O'Connor And Wizzer White. Byron white rehnquist
said in his, dissenting opinion the flag is not simply
another idea or point of view competing for recognition in

(05:42):
the marketplace. Of ideas he did not agree with the
first That The first amendment Invalidates the Act of congress
and the laws of forty eight of The, fifty states
which make criminal the public burning of. The flag so
he didn't see a conflict Between The first amendment and
the burning of. The, flag now the battle in the
courts about the flag desecration goes back to the turn

(06:06):
of the. Last century around nineteen, oh seven there was
a Case called Halter, versus nebraska which upheld a state
law that prohibited two businessmen from selling beer that had
flag labels on. The bottles so that's when this whole.
Thing started then in nineteen, Sixty eight congress Approved The

(06:26):
Federal Flag, desecration law and that happened After A vietnam,
war protest and that law made it illegal to knowingly
cast contempt upon any flag Of The united states by publicly,
mutilating it, defacing it, defiling it, burning it or trampling.
Upon it and then the court inch closer to the

(06:51):
a nineteen Eighty one johnson decision in nineteen seventy four
in a Case called Spence, versus washington where they held
that a person couldn't be convicted for using tape to
put a peace sign On an. American flag, they said that's.
Not desecration the decision made it clear that a majority

(07:11):
of the court saw the act as protected expression Under The.
First amendment so fast forward to the nineteen eighties and
you've got Greg Y lee johnson burning a flag At
The Republican national Convention, in dallas and Officials in Texas
arrested johnson and convicted him of Breaking a texas law

(07:33):
that prohibited desecration of. The flag he was sentenced to
a one year in prison in ordered to pay a
two thousand. Dollars Fine the Court of appeals For The
fifth District of Texas in dallas affirmed, that conviction But
The texas Court Of criminal, appeals reversed and Then The
supreme court Affirmed The texas Court of appeals in reaction

(07:57):
To the, johnson decision which, only applied by, the way
To the texas flag desecration law didn't apply. Anywhere else
it was that narrow. A decision congress then passed a
national anti flag burning law Called The Flag protection act
of nineteen. Eighty nine so this all happened within months of.
Each other but a, year later in another court case

(08:19):
THAT was Us, versus eichmann the court struck down, that
Law The Flag, protection act, as unconstitutional and that was
another five to, four decision a really. Close decision in,
That Opinion, justice brennan Citing the johnson case from nineteen, eighty,
nine said if there is a bedrock principle Underlying The,
first amendment it is that the government may not prohibit

(08:41):
the expression of an idea simply because society finds the
idea itself offensive. Or disagreeable and, that case, that decision
And the johnson case have remained controversial right up until
yesterday When the president signed his. EXECUTIVE order i think

(09:04):
back in two thousand, And six congress tried to Amend
the constitution to prohibit, flag desecration but that failed by
one vote In. The senate so it's always been a
really razor thin majority that has won the one the
day when it comes to allowing, flag burning.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
And it's.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
It's really a huge Issue That president trump has reopened
with his executive. ORDER yesterday i always found it very
Interesting That, justice scalia, you know, a conservative a conservative
legend On The, supreme court ruled what he actually cast

(09:50):
the deciding vote In the johnson case that allowed. Flag
burning and he was asked in one of his last
public events to explain why he, did that and and
he said he explained citing the principle of a textual
reading Of The, first amendment because that's he was a.
Strict constructionist, he said if it were up, TO me

(10:11):
i would put in jail every, sandal wearing scruffy bearded
wirdo who Burns the. American FLAG but i am, not
king and that's what it comes. Down to you may
find burning the. Flag abhorrent, YOU may i if you're.
LIKE me i was raised by my mother with strict.
Flag etiquette how to fold, the flag what to do
with a flag that is has aged itself out and

(10:35):
is starting, to wear how to how to, you know
get rid of. A flag and we didn't, burn them,
you know we took them to THE. Nearest VFW and
i was raised to respect and hold the. Flag sacred
But the constitution Says The first amendment is more important,

(10:57):
than that and so far there've been just enough people
to support your right to burn. The Flag Did president
trump do the right thing yesterday when he signed an
executive order basically making burning the flag a. Jailable offense
what is the right to? Do that or is that
a violation Of The, first amendment because that's What The

(11:19):
supreme court has to this. Day holds you think it'll stay,
That way.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
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