Is Trump Jumping the Gun?

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What the penalty is going to be. If you burn
a flag, you get one year in jail, no early exits,
no nothing. You get one year in jail. If you
burn a flag, you get and what it does is
insight to write. I hope they use that language. By
the way, did insight to riot? And you burn a
flag you get one year in jail. You don't get

(00:21):
ten years, you don't get one month. You get one
year in jail, and it goes on your record, and
you will see flag burning stopping immediately.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah, you might see flag burning stopping immediately. But the
problem is that it's already been already been litigated at
the Supreme Court level, and they said it's okay to
burn a flag. That was President Trump signing the executive
order criminalizing burning the flag.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
Now.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Well, it's funny because while Dems are in strong opposition
to basically anything that President Trump does, there have been
a lot of people on Capitol Hill, a lot of
your elected representatives on both sides of the including Democrats,
who voted in favor of measures to crack down on
the desecration of the American flag. I think back in gosh,

(01:16):
almost thirty years ago, Cliburn from South Carolina. You had
a captor from Ohio, Jim McGovern and Richie Neil from Massachusetts,
Frank Polone from the Jersey, Adam Smith from Washington, Benny
Thompson from Mississippi. They all voted for a constitutional amendment

(01:38):
that would have prohibited the desecration of the American flag,
but they lost. And then in two thousand and five
they tried again. You had again Clyburn and Captain and mcgovernor, Neil,
Polon Smith, and then you also had Koilar and Stephen
Lynch from Massachusetts. David Scott of Georgia, and bat Brad

(01:58):
Sherman of California added their names to that list, all
trying to pass an amendment that would in fact criminalize
desecrating the flag. But it didn't pass. Congress hasn't passed it,
so it is not a crime. So instead President Trump

(02:19):
a signed an executive order making it so. And what
they've done is that they've made it Pam Bondi's job,
Attorney General Pam Bondy. She is now tasked with investigating
and prosecuting instances of flag burning. And this is the
contstil that they put in there when they announced this
executive order yesterday where prosecution wouldn't fall afoul of the

(02:41):
First Amendment. But what situations would those be? Can anybody
tell me an instance where the First Amendment would not
be involved and burning the flag? That to me is
they put this codicil in there to make it palatable.
But how does that work? I mean, how do you

(03:03):
say this is not a First Amendment issue when the
very act of burning a flag is a First Amendment issue.
So it seems to me they're trying to create loophole,
a loophole for prosecutions. But that loophole can't exist. It's nonsensical.
So that's well, at least that's how I read it
as nonsensical. Do you agree with me? Do you think

(03:27):
do you approve of what President Trump's signed into law yesterday?
Charles N. Sudbury, Welcome to WRKO. How are you, sir?

Speaker 4 (03:36):
And thank you for taking my call. And I just
wanted to say first, Sandy, I really appreciate your fair
minded dialogue with your callers on this issue. I really
admire it. I agree with Janice, I don't think President
Trump has the right under our constitution to make a

(04:00):
law like this himself. Especially when Supreme Court has ruled
that the First Amendment protects this kind of behavior. I
fly the American flag on my home. I love the flag,
but I love what the flag represents. It is not
It is not a golden calf. It represents ideas like

(04:23):
freedom of speech, and so a part of my revering
the flag is revering the right of people to say
things that I abhor. So I think President Trump is
trying to provoke a new Supreme Court case with this

(04:45):
executive action. But what would need be needed is a
but at past three quarters of I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
Charles, we lost you for a minute. Could we could
you what we needed? And I didn't hear anything after that?
So could you go ahead with that? I'm sorry?

Speaker 4 (05:05):
Oh, I'm sorry. A constitutional amendment which not only Congress
would have to pass but three quarters of the states. So,
and a constitutional amendment against flag desecration, not just flag burning.
How do you interpret desecration? Is flag burning? Sure? That

(05:27):
could be considered desecration. What about putting the flag on
rolls of toilet paper?

Speaker 3 (05:32):
Sure?

Speaker 4 (05:33):
What about putting it on kleenex?

Speaker 2 (05:36):
What about hanging it upside down?

Speaker 5 (05:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (05:39):
There are all sorts of ways you can. You know,
there are all sorts of issues. Or the case that
the Supreme Court heard in the seventies where somebody put
a peace sign on the American flag with tape that
was found not to be desecration. But if there's an amendment,
would that become desecration? I don't know.

Speaker 4 (05:58):
Yeah, that's where we get it.

Speaker 6 (06:00):
It gets really difficult.

Speaker 4 (06:02):
And what if somebody appended to this proposed amendment the
idea that we criminalize flying the Confederate flag in the
United States, but that is tantamount to treason and terrorism too.

Speaker 6 (06:18):
I mean, this could just.

Speaker 4 (06:19):
Go on and on and on. And the fact that
you would criminalize desecration of the American flag but would
not criminalize flying the flag of treason to the United States.
What would that tell the American people?

Speaker 6 (06:39):
What would that tell the rest of the world about.

Speaker 4 (06:42):
Who we are and what we think we're doing by
making the flag sacred and by the way that itself
is a form of blasphemy. There's only one thing that's
truly sacred, and that is God. When you make a
national symbol sacred, you are worshiping a golden calf.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
I really love that analogy that you just made about
making the flag sacred equals a golden calf. I really do.
It speaks to me very much, and I think that's
that's correct. I understand the awe people have for the
American flag and what it has done, but I think

(07:22):
you're right. It doesn't need to be a golden calf.
And I think that's one of the one of the
principles that the Supreme Court upheld in nineteen eighty nine
is that it is not. There are things that are
more important than the flag, one of which is your
right to free speech, which is ironically enough represented by
the flag. So the flag represents, as you put out,

(07:44):
your freedoms, your freedom to speak, your mind, and your
freedom to disagree. I think you are absolutely right when
you say that President Trump is trying to is trying
to provoke another Supreme Court case. I think that's exactly
what's happening here. I think he's a brilliant man who's
smart enough to know that you just can't sign something

(08:04):
into law that flies in the face of a thirty
year president like the Johnson case, the nineteen eighty nine
Johnson case, without looking for trouble. And I think he's
poking the bear, and I think that's why he wants
to do it, and they tried very hard to make
it sound reasonable so there could be a court case.
And that means this is Sandy Shack sitting in for

(08:26):
Jeff Kuhner here on the Kooner Report. Our text line
is seven zero four seven zero two o seven. On
the text line says, I think it's funny how the
people burning the flag don't realize the flag represents the
freedom to do so. That is a little bit of irony.
I think that is lost in a lot of people,
and that is for me what the flag represents. President

(08:49):
Trump has signed an executive order which holds flag burning
to be a jailable offense. He acknowledges that the Supreme
Court said it was protected political expression under the First Amendment,
but still he says, violence can sue, So what the
hell we're going to criminalize it? Cut number one, please, Mike.

Speaker 7 (09:14):
All over the country, they're burning flags, all over the world,
they burn the American flag. And as you know, through
a very say at court.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
I guess it was a five to four decision.

Speaker 7 (09:26):
They called it freedom of speech. But there's another reason,
which is perhaps much more important.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
It's called death because.

Speaker 7 (09:33):
What happens when you burn a flag is the area
goes crazy. If you have hundreds of people, they go crazy.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
You could do other things.

Speaker 7 (09:42):
You can burn this piece of paper, you can and
it's but when you burn the American flag, it incites
riots at levels that we've never seen before.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
People go crazy, people go crazy. Can he do this?
Can he give them the five that Congress has failed
to do it? Given the fact that the Supreme Court
said it's okay to burn the flag, can President Trump
sign that executive order and enforce criminal penalties for burning
the flag. Let's go to David in California. David, Welcome

(10:15):
to w RKO.

Speaker 4 (10:16):
How are you, sir, Thank you.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
How you doing, Sandy?

Speaker 2 (10:19):
I'm doing okay. So do you support President Trump's executive order?

Speaker 3 (10:23):
Well, what I support is you can't go out on
the streets or on the sidewalk and burn anything or
even two feet into my lawn. The city owns that.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
Well, I don't think they're talking about burning it on
your city streets.

Speaker 3 (10:36):
They mean yeah, yeah, no, yeah. But if you want
to burn any flag in your backyard or front yard,
yeah no, do whatever you want. That's fine.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
Well, not according to President Trump. President Trump says, if
you do that, you can be jailed for a year.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
Well yeah, well okay, So if I went outside and
just in my front guard and burned some plastic or
paper bags, you know, the grocery store, right, no one's
going to trip out. They're like, oh, this guy's crazy.
But if they see a flag, then that's going to
incite company. So I understand that. So, but I totally
understand that that has to be passed through you know,

(11:15):
the house and everything, and you know, descending. But you know,
it's crazy because when I see video footage of people
burning the America or any flag, they're not burning in
their backyard. They're not on the streets, they're protesting in
front of a public building. They're they're on the sidewalk
or something burning the flag. And that's what I So,

(11:38):
that's anything. If you're burning anything, that should be totally
outlawed and you should go to jail.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
I think it is so I actually I think I
think for most but it depends on where you are.
But most cities have a have a ordinance that says
you can't do that, but it's not jailable. It's usually
a fine.

Speaker 3 (11:59):
Coins a whole differ right situation. But for some reason,
you can burn the American flag on the sidewalk in
California and nothing happens to you. But if I burn
some paper bags or some trash I have or whatever, yeah,
then oh no, that's that's bad. You're going to jail.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
That sounds like selective prosecution to me.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
Oh it is, Well I don't, that's California for you.
But that's that's how I would take That's how I
would look at it. If I was truck, I would say, hey,
if you're outside on public property, on your sidewalk or whatever,
you burn anything, you're going to you know, if I

(12:40):
was keen, which you know he's not keen, but I
would if I could pass a law and if you're
caught burning anything on public streets, sidewalk or whatever, right
then you should go to jail for a year. Hands down.
I think that that would stop it. You don't even
have to say the American flag like I can't go
can Can you imagine if I went to Canada or

(13:02):
Mexico or Brazil or England and I went on on
the streets and started burning their flag, Oh.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
They kick your ass out of there. So fast as
oh my.

Speaker 3 (13:09):
Gosh, I would be either be dead or hurt really bad.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
Well, hopefully not, but they would certainly they would not
ignore you. Let's put it that way. They would not.
They would not just walk on by. There would be
hell to pay. My guess is that you're looking at,
maybe you know, getting your butt thrown in jail or
and and most likely they would also escort you to
the nearest airport if if there was water, or the

(13:36):
nearest border, depending on where you are. I agree with you.
The problem is that two and that you can't enact
a national law that prohibits burning things in public. That's
up to the states. That's a state issue, and in
many cases within the state, it's a city or town
ordinance as well. So I think, well, I understood exactly

(13:58):
what you're saying. That eliminate the burning part of that,
then that would cover the flag as well, and then
we wouldn't have to worry about tangling with the Supreme
Court over past president. But the president's office can't outlaw
burning public things in that kind of a blanket way.
That's up to the city in town. So that's why
I think that it's tailor made for I think that's

(14:22):
a brilliant idea. I think it's I think it's it
takes care of a lot of issues, but you just
can't do it because of you know, States rights and
over the federal government overstepping there. So that's why they
probably didn't do it. But I think it's very creative thinking,
and I think it's trying to think outside the envelope,
which President Trump does all the time. I think this

(14:43):
case here at the executive order is an example of
him trying to think outside the envelope. He doesn't like
flag burning, He's always said he doesn't like flag burning.
Who I don't like flag burning. But he's trying to
find a way around the nineteen eighty nine case, and
so I think his caller had it correctly. He's come
up with something that's going to provoke another Supreme Court case,

(15:04):
and that is how he's going to try to get
around it. He does not expect this executive order, I
don't believe, and I could be wrong, but I don't
think he thinks this is going to fly with very
many people. Because of the nineteen eighty nine Supreme Court
case and because of the efforts of Congress to pass
a constitutional amendment that would make an exception for flag

(15:25):
burning to the First Amendment. They haven't been able to
do it, and so I think President Trump is trying
to poke the Supreme Court into doing it. Do you
think that I thank you for the call, David. I
appreciate it very much. Do you think I'm right there?
Steve and Revere?

Speaker 8 (15:42):
Steve like in preference with saying that, you know, I'm
a veteran of the United States there.

Speaker 9 (15:49):
Force, thank you for your service.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
Steve.

Speaker 8 (15:52):
Oh, yeah, You're very welcome. But you know the plang
I displayed outside of my house here while I'm not
just on know, like the fourth of July. I you know,
I'm a Trump supporter, and you know I I do
believe it's a First Amendment right, But beyond all that,

(16:16):
you know, constantly you know, here and talk about the
upcoming mid terms and how close the margins are, and
I'm just really kind of wondering about the timing. I mean,
I just I just fear that mister Trump, our President Trump,
maybe handing the bullets to his political opponents to shoot
him with. You know, you think I.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Think, well, except that you know, I I see what
you're saying. You're saying that by he if he if
he signs an executive order, that makes him appear as
if he's trying to be king by overturning a Supreme
Court case, by by signing an executive order, which is
exactly what he's accused the other side of doing on
more than one occasion, that he is he is handed being.

(17:01):
He is going to give a foot up to his
political opponents who said, see, we told you be worried
about him being a king, being a fascist, being a dictator.
Look at what he's doing. Is that what you're saying, Oh,
I have to hold Steve, hang on and we'll finish
this conversation on the other side of the break. This
is the Kooner Report. I am Sandy Shack sitting in
for Jeff Cooner. President Trump has signed an executive order

(17:24):
which allows for criminal prosecution of flag burning. Before the break,
we were speaking with Steve from Revere and Air Force
Vet who says he too revers to flag But isn't
the president handing his political opponent's bullets for the midterm elections?
Given the fact that the executive order is an opposition
to an established Supreme Court president which finds flag burning

(17:49):
to be protected under the First Amendment, and does not
this make President Trump look like a dictator? Did I
word that correctly? Steve? Is that your position?

Speaker 6 (17:58):
Yeah, yes, it is.

Speaker 8 (18:00):
You know. I think the metaphor that comes to mind
is like, let's not pull the baby out with the
bath water. You know, I think we need to look
at so big a picture right now. You know, there's
so many things that we're dealing with that are so important,
and I think this one can wait. I really do. Well.

Speaker 9 (18:19):
I think.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
You have a very good point. I think that, except
there's one thing that makes me think that might have
factored into his consideration of doing that. And this is
what I spoke about a little bit earlier that flags
an amendment, a constitutional amendment for flag desecration, really has

(18:42):
bipartisan support. You have a lot of Democrats who have
signed on to it, and very powerful Democrats too, like
Jim Clyburn of South Carolina, like Benny Thompson did from Mississippi,
like Jim McGovern, Richie Neil and Steve Lynch from Massachusetts.
These are all high profile Democrats and they have and

(19:04):
they've done it. David Scott of Georgia Brad Sherman of
California at Kuehlar from Texas. These are all really high
profile Democrats, and they support an amendment to the Constitution
which makes an exception for flag burning under that first Amendment,
saying that you know you can't do it. This is
not free free this is not free expression. So I

(19:27):
think that protects him a little bit from that, not entirely.
I think your point is well taken, but I think
that's probably one of the factors that he thought of
in going after this. And I also think that that
the point made earlier by other callers that he was
trying to provoke the Supreme Court into taking a case. Obviously,

(19:49):
he has to provoke somebody into challenging this law. Who's
going to be progressive, left wing, and I think they
will try to make a lot out of it, like
you said, and may to have the Supreme Court be
the bad guy, not him. But I think your point
is well taken. I mean, don't we have other fish
to fry right now? And why would you expend your

(20:09):
political capital on this if you don't have to, I
think is what you're asking, is it not?

Speaker 6 (20:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (20:16):
You know again, I think it's about the timing. I mean,
you get all you know, I don't know. Yeah, you
do have all the you know, the people you know
in government who were supporting who are not necessarily on
his side. But you know, you also have you know,
the press who were just going to just run with this,
and you know, you got people out there who are
just going to be who are on the fence, you know,

(20:38):
who may be swayed by whatever the you know, the
media feeds them, and I just I just don't think
the time is really great for this fight, you know.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, you know, I don't disagree with that. I was
kind of surprised when I saw when he was doing
a whole slew of things yesterday. You know, he has
this he is the most transparent president we've ever had.
He almost every if he's in there, if he's in
the Oval office, he opens the door and says, come
on in to the press gaggle, which is such a
refreshing change from what happened after President Biden, who you

(21:09):
didn't see for months at a time. And so he
had he had everybody in again yesterday and he was
signing executive orders and among other things, he was also
meeting with President of South Korean and so forth. But
it was really it was I did not I had
not realized the flag burning thing was coming up again,

(21:30):
and there you had it, and I was like, wow,
that's interesting timing, And much like you, I thought, why now,
Why are we doing this now? Except that maybe he's
thinking he has a window of opportunity before the midterm
elections to get stuff done that he wants done, and
he's letting people know that this is important to him.
I don't know, but I kind of agree with you, Steve.

(21:52):
I think it could have been saved for a later time,
maybe after the twenty twenty eight midterms might have been
a better time. So you know, you and I agree
on that. Thank you so much for the cost, Steve.
I appreciate it very much. Let's go with Jared in Georgetown. Jared,
Welcome to WRKO. How are you pretty good?

Speaker 8 (22:13):
How are you?

Speaker 2 (22:13):
I'm doing fine. Do you agree with President Trump's executive
order criminalizing flag burning?

Speaker 10 (22:19):
I can't really say I agree with it or disagree
with it. I've never been for desecrating the flag, and
I feel like there's plenty of other forms of political
demonstrations and stuff like that, So like I can't really
agree with it or disagree with it because there's already
a rule in place thing you can do it that
he should probably go through the proper channels. But like

(22:42):
growing up, I always thought it was illegal to desecrate
the flag.

Speaker 11 (22:47):
Well, it is.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
Illegal to do certain things to the flag, but burning
the flag was specifically held to be protected political expression
under the First Amendment in the nineteen eighty nine case.
And you know, very small things that have happened over
the years where people have tested what desecration means. You know,
we had an earlier caller say that that's a slippery slope.

(23:10):
You know, who decides, and so far it's been piecemeal.
You know, what has been decided to be desecration, what
isn't desecration has been tested by the Supreme Court coming
up for gosh decades. You had in nineteen sixty eight,
you know, they tried to pass that law that made

(23:33):
it illegal to knowingly cast contempt upon any flag of
the United States by publicly mutilating, defacing, defiling, burning, or
trampling upon it. But that did not survive the Supreme Court.
They found in nineteen seventy four that you could not
be convicted for using tape to put a peace sign
on an American flag, and so that was what was that.

(23:56):
That was Spence versus Washington, and so that you know
each so these every time somebody tries to do something
and they have the resources or they get the attention
of somebody who has the resources to take it to
the Supreme Court, they do and the Supreme Court has
agreed to hear these cases. And so that's you know, desecration,

(24:16):
I don't it depends on what level of abuse you're
giving the flag. I suppose it's going to be infinite
if desecration becomes the watchword. So I think they're going
to have to spell out what desecration means if they
pass an amendment, or if they if they pass any

(24:37):
kind of of law. But I was raised the same
way you were, Jared. I mean, I was taught to
respect the flag. We've we had a flag pole in
front of our house, and we would put the flag
up and we were very careful not to let it
touch the ground, and we folded it a certain way
and we didn't leave it out in the rain. And
when it became old and tattered, we brought it to
the VFW for disposal. I mean that's what we did.

Speaker 4 (25:00):
Will you raise the same way exactly?

Speaker 9 (25:02):
Yeah, pretty much, especially with military and the family and
stuff like that.

Speaker 10 (25:06):
And it was just you always gave respect to it.

Speaker 9 (25:09):
And that's that's why I called too, is because one
of the callers had said something about the Pledge of
Allegiance and how you're you're pledging allegiance to a leader,
and that a lot of people don't like the leader.
But in the Pledge of Allegiance, you're not pledging to
a leader. And nowhere doesn't say you have to respect
the president. You're pledging allegiance to the United States itself,

(25:31):
You're country, You're you're expressing patriotism towards the country. It
doesn't say that you have to respect the president or
like the president. So like that earlier caller kind of
confused me by saying that.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
So you're saying you algience to an idea, the idea
that that are represented, that are codified in the Constitution
is what you're pledging allegiance to.

Speaker 10 (25:53):
A nation stands for.

Speaker 9 (25:54):
So like the whole idea of like freedom of speech
and everything like that. That's why we pledged to the
flags okay, but the other caller too. It said that
the flag was flying during these racist events and during
the sixties or whatever, when black people were getting attacked
and beat up on the streets and all this, but
the flag was also flying when the Union liberated the

(26:17):
slaves and other events like you had mentioned, during the
World War One and World War Two. So it's like
it was just kind of silly. Yeah, it was like
it kind of got to me.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
So I had to call I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
No, I can understand. He kind of took me back, too, like,
what do you mean? You know, so, because of course
the flags were flying during bad times, but they're also
flying during positive good times and times of national celebration
and joy and accomplishment. It's a US flag that we
planted on the moon. I mean, didn't that fit feel
filled the country with enormous pride that we had accomplished

(26:51):
something like that as a as a nation. We had
put our mind to it, and we had did it
within John Kennedy's ten year time perce, which everybody thought
was impossible. So I agree with you. There are many
things that that the flag represents that are positive, I think,
And what I said to him, And what I say

(27:11):
to you is that I think it takes a particular
mindset looking for a craven definition of the flag to
see that in the flag. I think that even if
you have felt oppressed, or I think even if you
felt that the flag has flown in bad times, to
only see that when you see the flag means that

(27:34):
that's all you see, period, I think, with everything, so
I don't think the flag is any different than anything
else you look at, and in that respect that you
see everything through that lens and not just the flag.
Do you agree with me?

Speaker 11 (27:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (27:48):
Thank you for the call, Jared. I appreciate it very much,
and I'm glad. I'm glad you decided to weigh in
because I was feeling a little odd about that that
particular phone call myself. Chris from Missouri, Welcome to WRKO.
How are you Chris?

Speaker 11 (28:01):
Doing fine? I want to make the point caller said that, uh,
a flag, if you if you have a law against
desecrating a flag or burning it, that somehow makes the
flag sacred.

Speaker 3 (28:14):
We already have that.

Speaker 11 (28:16):
We already have a sacred flag that if it is
in our society, is not allowed to be touched.

Speaker 6 (28:22):
That's called the lgbt Q flag.

Speaker 11 (28:26):
See what happens if you if you do anything to
that on a public square.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
I believe, I believe you would be written out of
town on a rail crash.

Speaker 5 (28:35):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. We already have a sacred flag, So
that's a we have a serious, serious problem. Also, you
might want to take a look at what they're doing
in Britain right now.

Speaker 11 (28:45):
They're actually actually displaying the British flag is becoming criminalized.
So symbol I'm saying. My point is symbols matter. Yeah,
the left nose symbols matter, and if they can get
rid of our symbols, they can elevate their symbols. So
it is a I believe it isn't us in them.

(29:06):
Think that's my point.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
Well, I think I understand what you're saying, and but
I think the US at versus them, that them needs
to be defined. I think that them is the woke,
not necessarily the Democrats. I said before, there are a
lot of Democrats who who feel that flag desecration should
be codified and should be an exception to the First Amendment.

(29:29):
I think the woke don't have respect for anything but themselves,
and those are the people that I think you're talking
about that revere political group flags more than they revere
a country's flag. Do you think that's a fair statement.

Speaker 11 (29:46):
I think that the that side does not want to
would would would gladly outlaw the display of an American
flag of any kind.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
Well, what I'm trying to get you to do is
to find that side. Who is it that because I
don't think it's.

Speaker 11 (30:00):
I don't hate this that the people on the left
that hate this country hate the American flag and they
want to see it go away.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Well, I think that's true, but I'm trying to define
more the people of the left. I guess there are
because as I said before, there are you know, left
leaning democrats. There are Democrats and liberals who revere the flag.
So I think it's an even smaller subset than that.
I think it's a progressive, communist group or far far

(30:31):
left group who are who have created, you know, the
woke religion. That are the people that you are talking about,
and I think it's a smaller subset. I'm trying to
really make this not so much about political lines meaning
Republican versus Democrat, as it is about ideological meaning the conservatives,

(30:53):
the center of the road, and even some liberals aren't
as far left as the progressive, the Marcus Marxist and
the communists who absolutely want to destroy any positive symbolism
of the United States. But I think it's a it's
a much smaller group than people think it is. Thank
you for the call, Chris, I appreciate it very much.

(31:14):
Let's talk to you Maria in Ludlow. Maria, good morning.
How are you.

Speaker 12 (31:19):
Good? How are you misstandy?

Speaker 2 (31:21):
I am fine. Are you a supporter of President Trump's
executive order criminalizing burning the flag?

Speaker 1 (31:30):
I am okay, And.

Speaker 12 (31:32):
I understand about the First Amendment, I really truly do,
but I think it's just taken way too fast. I mean,
I've been on this earth today forty nine years, and
I've been in America since nineteen ninety and to become

(31:53):
a US citizen, I studied the book, I took the classes,
and I learned about American histories, and I learned I
developed a special love for this country because I will
forever be Portuguese. That will never change. But now I

(32:14):
am an American Portuguese citizens, and I fly the American
flag proudly in my house, and a lot of people
take offense if they see an American flag. They get joys,
overjoyed if they see an American flag being burned, And

(32:35):
to me, that is hateful. I understand that it's their
First Amendment and they need to understand, and I don't
think they do that. It is their first Amendment right.
I give them that right to do that, and that
in my in my belief, my book is wrong, and
I agree with President Trump doing that. The polk that

(32:59):
bear to see if something can be changed because Biden
was that the Supreme Court said no to especially like
the giving money to the loans.

Speaker 11 (33:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 12 (33:14):
Yeah, the Supreme Court said no, no, no, And what
did Biden do you want to have it?

Speaker 10 (33:20):
Did it?

Speaker 5 (33:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 12 (33:21):
Nobody called them names, nobody did anything. They were all
happy because they wanted the government to pay for their
debt that they consumed. So I don't think President Trump
is doing this. He understands about the First Amendment. I
think he's a very big, smart businessman. He knows that

(33:42):
he's poking the bear, and he wants to poke the
bear because I don't agree with people burning the flag. Gosh,
a bid like that. Last young man said, if they
burned the flag of the LGBTQ and the trends people.
How would brick mose and do what they but burning
the American flag? These stems, these woke people are okay,

(34:09):
and they don't have no respect for it. They don't
have no respect for nobody, and I believe they don't
even have respect for their own self. And I hope
to that that someday, looking back, when they're older, they say,
oh my goodness, what have I done? Why did I
do that? I cannot believe. I let them make me

(34:31):
believe that burning the American flag was the right thing
to do. So in that aspect, I agree, and I
understand about the First Amendment, but I agree less residents
Trump poke the bear and see what can be done.
Because you know what, regardless of what Trump does, regardless,

(34:52):
I've come to that assumption people will call him names
no matter what right's wrong. They will all him names regardless,
And I say to him, moved forward, not to be disrespectful.
I love the American flag. To me, it symbolizes what
this country has given me, an opportunity and patriotism and

(35:18):
the love that I have for this country and the
love that I have for this flag and what it
has done for me, right or wrong. That that's the way.
I think it might not be the right way for everybody,
and that's okay, but that's what I believe, and it's
very wrong.

Speaker 6 (35:35):
Well.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
I think that was beautifully put, Maria, I really do.
I don't agree with you necessarily, but I think you
articulated your position extremely well.

Speaker 3 (35:45):
To me.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
I think there has to be another way to poke
the bear than becoming a scoff law like Joe Biden was.
I mean, you pointed out how he didn't care what
the Supreme Court said and ignored them when it came
to a public policy that he wanted to enact. In
that case, it was the student loans, and I thought
that was horrific. I couldn't believe that a sitting president

(36:10):
would thumb his nose at the Supreme Court. And I
feel the same way here and that I understand that
maybe the motivation here is one protecting people from violence,
but two also trying to get this adjudicated by the
Supreme Court again, but I think there has to be
a better way than taking a look at a nineteen
eighty nine case and saying, screw it, I'm not going

(36:31):
to pay attention to it. I think that makes him
as bad as Joe Biden in that respect, in regard
to being a scoff law, and I find that very
very upsetting. But also in regard to what you were saying,
you were proud to be American and you're proud of
the flag. So am I. I'm proud to be an American,

(36:53):
and I'm very proud of the flag. But isn't part
of that pride also and upholding the Constitution and the
law in the Supreme Court of the country. Isn't that
what the part of the things that make our country great.
I understand the motivation behind President Trump, and obviously you
do too, and you approve of it, and you agree

(37:14):
with it, but I think there had to be a
better way to do it than this. That I think
that's where we differ.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
I again, I.

Speaker 12 (37:23):
See what you're saying, and and I partially agree with it,
and I hope that he can come up with a
better way. I truly do.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
But sometimes.

Speaker 12 (37:36):
You have to pick up in love and fight fire
with fire.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
Yeah yeah, And I.

Speaker 12 (37:43):
Hope to God that there is a better way. But
until then, this might be the best way.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
Okay, Well, you know, I don't.

Speaker 12 (37:52):
Know I hope there is the best way. I pray
it there is the best way that it can happen
and be a better solution to the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Well, I think you have made your support very clear
and you have articulated it very well. Thank you so
much for the call, Maria. I appreciate it very much.
Let's go to Tommy in West Virginia. Tommy, welcome to
w RKO. How are you this morning.

Speaker 6 (38:19):
I'm doing good, just getting a little bit of the
ragweed fever from.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
I know that problem.

Speaker 6 (38:25):
Yeah, it's that time of year again. But no, freedom
of speech is freedom of speech is freedom of speech.
You want to burn an American flag for protest, I
really don't have an issue with it. And you know me,
nobody is more Trump than Tommy in West Virginia.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Well that's for damn sure.

Speaker 6 (38:43):
Now you had a previous caller who brought up the
Sacred cath the LGBTQ flag. My god, if you burn that,
that's a hate crime. I hate hate crime legislation. And
do you know where hate crime legislation started? Where Soviet Union?

Speaker 2 (39:05):
Oh you surprised me with that. In other word, okay, yeah.

Speaker 6 (39:09):
If someone from Croatia called somebody from Poland to Polock,
a derogatory term. You could be imprisoned for that, And
all I can say is thank God for mister Bill Mullen,
the teacher my senior year in high school at Foxborough,
mass That when I finally stopped being Beavis and Butthead
and put down the weed and sobered up, I learned

(39:31):
an awful lot from Russian history, and especially with the
Communist Revolution and everything that we've been seeing the last
thirty years. From this from the American left from the
late eighties when it started that hate speech on college campuses,
hate speech that was the silence.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
You hold on, Tommy, I'm sorry, we're up against We're
up against a break. Hang on, and I'll pick you
up again on the other side.