Protected Speech

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Is a Sandy Shack sitting in for Jeff Cooner here
on the Kooner Report. Before the break, we were talking
to Tommy in West Virginia. I'm sorry we were so
rudely interrupted. Tommy continue, please, no no worries.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
I mean heartbreaks are heartbreaks. But getting back to the
point of hate speech in the old Soviet Union. Number one,
if you lived in the Soviet Union, whether you were
in Kazakhstan or Afghanistan, or Poland or Croatia, you were
part of the big picture of the Soviet Union. And

(00:35):
what they tried to do was get rid of nationalism.
That was the whole point of hate speech crimes back then.
And this is what the American left have done with
regards that, trying to make the American flag to be
a symbolism of racism, oppression and all the above is
these people just basically are paralleling what the old Soviet

(00:59):
Union did. And the state is, you know, more important
than your individual rights. The needs of the many outweigh
the needs of the few. Is basically is how you
can sum communism up. And Nita remind you there was
a talking head on MSNBC named Melissa Perry Harris I

(01:20):
believe who said we have to start thinking about our
children in the collective, give me a break, Okay. Children
belong to their parents. And what we're seeing in this
country now is that there's a swing going back to
the right, and it's the pendulum theory of politics, and
the American left is pushed too far. I don't have

(01:42):
a problem if people if they're homosexual, you're free to
live your life. Marriage is a contract as far as
I'm concerned, It's been a sacrament, you know, as far
as the Catholic religion and other religions between a man
and a woman. But I believe in freedom being an American,
and it's not going to ruin my life. If people live,

(02:07):
you know, as homosexuals, I want them to have the
same freedom that I have. But when it with regards
to freedom of speech, you know, you will not be
arrested for burning a Bible, but you will be arrested
for burning a Koran. You will be arrested if you
burn a gay Pride flag. You'll not be arrested for

(02:27):
burning an American flag, you burn a Confederate flag, Nothing's
going to happen. And there's people that occasionally you'll see
a Confederate flag down here. And the reason why most
white people fly a Confederate flag, it's not that they
hate black people and they want to go back to
the Civil War. It's the middle finger towards the federal

(02:48):
government in many ways. And I had to explain that
to a couple of friends of mine that are moonbats
from Maine that came to visit me a few months ago,
that they're like, oh my god, I can't believe people
fly the Confederate flag. Well, number one, it's on their
own property. Number two, those are people that basically are
the anti establishment of today as compared to a hippie

(03:11):
in nineteen sixty seven that wear long air and bell bottoms.
So you know, things go up and down. And I
believe what Maria and Ludlow said that what Trump is
doing is poking the bear. And this is not the
first time there's been an attempt at the federal legislative

(03:32):
level to make burning the American flag a crime. It
happened in nineteen eighty nine. And if this was nineteen
eighty nine, I was a Democrat and I was very
liberal back then, and what made me change was the
so called progressives of the Democratic Party. I'm a blue

(03:53):
collar working person that believes in labor unions and the
right to collectively bargain. And that's when I started hearing
this term progressive. And I went to two Massachusetts state
conventions as a delegate from Ward ten Mission Hill. The
first one was nineteen eighty eight in Springfield, Massachusetts. The

(04:16):
second one was at Walter Brown Arena at Northeastern University
in Boston. And that's when I started hearing that term progressive.
And I used to say to myself, tom I know
you're a Democrat, but what the hell are these other people? And,
like I say, just slowly, but surely, they've pushed the

(04:36):
party now to the point of where the movers and shakers,
the mouthpieces of the American Democratic Party hate this country.
They hate its founding, they hate everything about it, and
they constantly rant and rave about slavery. And I'm really
tired of hearing about slavery. And I don't mean to

(04:57):
offend anybody who's black, but enough, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
No, I think a lot of people feel that way. Tommy.
I would disagree with something that you said, and that
you said, there's a move a foot legislatively to deal
with desecrating the flag. This is not a legislative movement
that's happening. This is an executive branch. Legislative means Congress
is doing it and Congress is not doing it. Congress
has to do it. You can't have the president just

(05:23):
completely ignoring a Supreme Court case and the lack of
congressional action on this. They've tried, but they haven't been
able to legislatively pass anything regarding desecrating the flag or
a national desecration law. They tried to do it in
the sixties, but that they passed something, but it didn't
it didn't pass the Supreme Court muster, and they've tried

(05:46):
a couple times to amend the Constitution to get around that,
but they haven't done it. And so now you have
the President of the United States signing an executive order
completely doing an end run around both the Supreme Court
and Congress. And that is dangerous because I think, as
other callers have pointed out today, regardless of how proud

(06:11):
you are of the American flag and how much hold
you you revere it, and how much you are upset
by people desecrating it, it's a violation of the Constitution.
It's a violation of the separation of powers. It's a
violation of the First Amendment. There's all sorts of issues here,
and I think another caller pointed out that this is

(06:31):
kind of funny doing it right now before as you're
starting to gear up for the twenty twenty eight mid
terms or twenty twenty six mid terms. I think that's
a problem. So we will wait and see where this goes.
But I think President Trump, regardless of his motivation, has
made a mistake in doing this and signing an executive

(06:54):
order that basically gives a big fat middle finger to
the Supreme Court. Don't think he should have done that,
And I think his motivations may be pure, protecting people
from violence may be pure, but his methodology leaves something
to be desired here. Thank you for the call, Tommy.
I appreciate it very much. When we come back, I'm

(07:16):
going to play for you again President Trump's rationale. I'm
Sandy Shack sitting in for Jeff Pooner. The First Amendment
protecting speech has come under fire in the past twenty
four hours simply because one of the protected forms of
speech is political expression, and the Supreme Court has included

(07:39):
flag burning as an accepted form of political expression. They
did that in the case in nineteen eighty nine. So
in President Trump signs an executive order criminalizing flag burning,
isn't that flipping the verd of the Supreme Court? Or
you know, do you think he was within his rights
to do so? Do you agree with the executive order

(08:01):
that he signed? Ronnie in Boston, Welcome to WRKO. How
are you Ronnie?

Speaker 3 (08:08):
Hey, Hey, good morning, Sandy. Thanks has always for taking
the call. Really enjoying this morning show. I respectfully disagree.
I think Trump knows exactly what he's doing. I don't
think this is a mistake at all, because if Trump,
even if Trump quote unquote loses, he still wins. And

(08:29):
the reason I say that is because if you're going
to make a stretch, this very well indeed may be
a bit of a stretch for Trump given the Supreme
Court decision. But that being said, I think most Americans
would rather prefer overreach on the side of America than
against America. And secondly, you know, if Democrats, you know,

(08:53):
they're on the ninety ten or eighty twenty side of everything,
let them go into the mid terms with their only
victory against Trump being they protected Americans' rights to burn
the flag. What a victory for Democrats, you know, ye,
And that's my point, Standy. Even if Trump, you know,
quote unquote loses this, he still wins. And you know,

(09:16):
and I think that he's also very well aware of
the fact that there's a massive cultural shift taking place.
I've said it before speaking with you. Traditional femininity is back.
You saw that with the Sydney Sweeney ad. Traditional masculinity
is back, and traditional patriotism is also back. Trump knows this,

(09:39):
and Trump is leveraging that position with his position, and
so this is a victory for him. Even if this
gets stepped on by the Supreme Court or Congress or
the Senate, nobody's going to fall President Trump for siding
with the American flag and siding with patriotic America. Nobody's
going to fault him for that, even if he moves Well.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
I agree with you in that respect. I think that
traditional patriotism is back, and I think nobody is going
to fault President Trump for being too patriotic. I think
the problem comes from what a former previous caller said
in that the overreach. You said, you'd rather have overreach

(10:22):
on the side of America than against America. The problem
is who decides what that overreach is. Under Trump, you
trust it to be on the side of America. But
what about the next president who says, well, Trump did this,
so I can do this, and only this time it's
not on the side of America. Overreach is overreach. Whether
you approve of it or not, it's still overreach. And
there's a reason why we have these very clearly delineated

(10:45):
lines between branches of government, because that's how the system works.
And when one branch oversteps into the territory of another branch,
then you start to have chaos happen and things break down.
Now this one may actually this particular overreach you approve of,
you don't mind it because you don't like flag desecration.

(11:06):
I don't like flag desecration. But what I like even
less is the idea of an executive branch that oversteps
its boundaries the same way I don't like it when
Congress oversteps its boundaries, the same way I don't like
it when the Supreme Court oversteps its boundaries. Those lines
are there for a reason. They are what keep us

(11:27):
moving forward and safe and protect our rights. When they
start to blur when you start to erase them. Even
if you like the underlying cause, you have to look
twenty steps ahead strategically and see what could happen if
you do that. Even though you like this, and even
though I like the idea of flag burning not being
constitutionally protected, it is and the Supreme Court says it is,

(11:51):
and so far Congress has says it is. So for
the President to say it isn't is a serious problem
for me. Ronnie.

Speaker 3 (12:00):
It's not a problem for me because Trump's not erasing anything.
He's simply challenging and existing ruling. And you had just said, Sandy, well,
who gets to decide what's America first and what isn't? Well,
the seventy seven million Americans that voted for Trump get
to decide, the seventy seven million Americans that carried every
single swing space.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
Well, what about ten years, Ronnie. In ten years, when
it isn't magas who's in the White House? What if
if there are great if they're not, what happens then
what if it's you know, Mom, Donnie's party, that's and
they decide at that point, if you've allowed this to happen,
It's kind of like when you think about it, the
Democrats wholesale attack on Trump when Biden got into power,

(12:42):
all you know, all gloves are off. They could they were,
they weren't passing legislation. They were spending all their time
going after Donald Trump. And they did that actually during
his his administration as well. So that lowered the bar
so to speak for attacking political opponents. That made it
possible to attack everybody and anything and waste our time

(13:06):
and our taxpayer dollars with specious arguments. That's what happens
when you lower the bar. And this kind of thing
lowers the bar. When you sign an executive order that
flies in the face of both Congress and a Supreme Court,
an established Supreme Court case, you are asking for trouble.
Maybe not now, maybe not during this administration, but maybe

(13:28):
two administrations from now, or maybe even in the next administration,
because who knows what's going to happen in the I mean,
we didn't expect during President Trump's administration for there to
be a worldwide pandemic that upset his beautifully working economy
and made it possible for the Democrats to to become elected. Now.
I know people argue that they that election was stolen,

(13:50):
But that aside the fact that they were that they
could actually get close enough to make that argument. If
that's what you believe that was created by the pandemic,
who knows what's going to have and next to put
somebody in power that you do not agree with. That
is why even when you like something, you have to
look at what the overall effect is. Is this going

(14:11):
to cause trouble if we are not in power, because
there will come a day when you are not in power,
and so you can't establish a precedent of ignoring the
other branches of the government, because then you're concentrating too
much power in one particular branch. And that's exactly what
our founders did not want and why they set everything

(14:34):
up the way they did. And that's why we have
a First Amendment, why we have a Supreme Court, why
we have the executive branch and the legislative branch. And
if you allow one branch to say screw it to
the other two, we don't have a government anymore. I
understand you like this fact, and I understand that this
makes you feel good. It makes me feel good. I

(14:54):
don't like this a creation of the flag. Don't like
it but this I like even less, Ronnie. That's all
I'm saying to you.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
Well, one I'll just say in closing, Sandy, is that
you know, back in two thousand and eight, when Obama won,
we had a huge natural disaster in Haiti and other
areas of the world, and the Obama administration ordered all
our military personnel and foreign aid do not fly the
American flag. It's provocational. You know, a country over you know,

(15:23):
the country overwhelmingly voted for Obama, and those were the
types of sensibilities that came with Obama. Well, seventy seven
million voted for Trump, you know, and none of them
have a problem with Trump challenging this Supreme Court decision.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah, dude, that's that's a statement you can't make. You
have no idea how many people approve of it, how
many disapprove. You've heard this morning a number of people
who support bought Donald Trump in fact don't support this,
including myself. So it's you know, you can't. That's a
blanket statement that has no basis in fact whatsoever. And
you know that, you know, I respect you and like you, Ronnie,

(16:00):
but still you can't make statements like that. And just
you know, and just assume that I'm not going to
challenge it. One and two, you just proved my point.
You had Obama going out there himself denigrating the flag,
not desecrating it, but denigrating the flag. And then sensibility
has changed, and now we have a president who wants
to stop the flag burning. Okay, that's great, But what

(16:22):
happens in another four years when an Obama like guy
gets back in office. You don't want to blur the
lines between what the power bases are. That is my point.
Thank you so much for the call, Ronnie. I appreciate
it very much. Let's go to Susan in Florida. Susan,
Welcome to w RKO. How are you, Susan.

Speaker 4 (16:40):
I am well, and I hope you're having a great
day because I totally disagree with you. Okay, as a
as a smider of soldiers, ye, and as a wife
of soldiers, And when I see the flag drake confidence
coming home from war, and when I see the the kids,

(17:00):
the thirty that thirty in undercrowd that probably have not
pledged the allegiance to the flag in their classrooms. A
lot of classrooms in our country don't even have the
American flag. A lot of kids have never pledged the
flag since kindergarten, and I think it's this generation that
don't understand the meaning of our American flag. It's just

(17:22):
not freedom, a freedom of speech. It is allegiance. It's
allegiance to your country. And I don't understand why people
just don't get that. I'm all for it now when
you think about the Supreme Court decision, Susan.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
I'm going to I need you to hang on through
the break we're about to go into. You're about to
hear the music. We're going to go into a break,
and I understand you want to make a point about
the Supreme Court decision, and I want to give you
the time to do it, So if you'll hang on,
I will come back to you on the other side.
Before the break, we were speaking with Susan and Florida
about President Trump's executive order criminalizing the burning of the flag,

(18:00):
and she was telling us what the flag means to
her as the mother, as a mother whose children are
in military service, and decrying the level of patriotism in
the schools and in the current generation. And Susan, you
wanted to say something about the nineteen eighty nine case
Supreme Court case Texas versus Johnson, the case that said

(18:22):
you can burn the flag.

Speaker 4 (18:24):
Well, within that Supreme Court Justice Supreme Court decision, there
was a little clause in it that said, as long
as it doesn't incite violence or lawlessness. And then in
nineteen nineteen sixty nine Brandenburg versus Ohio, they also said
the key that they act itself as symbolic speech. However,

(18:48):
if flag burning would directly incite eminent lawless action and
violence per Brandenburg versus Ohio nineteen sixty nine, it could
lose its protection. Look at I know that Donald Trump
loves this country. He loves our flag. I love our flag.
I fly it every day. I have a light on
it at night. I just don't understand why the left

(19:14):
doesn't understand that. And I don't think they teach their
children to love their country, to respect their country, to
honor their country, and honoring the flag is not burning it.
That's all I have to say, Sandy. It just really
gets my heart going. You know what I mean, I do.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
I completely understand. I hold the flag in high esteem,
as do you. I do not have children in the military,
but I can understand the added influence of that on
children who are risking their lives to uphold what that
flag stands for. I completely understand that. I wouldn't say,

(19:52):
I wouldn't make your blanket assertion that the left is
responsible for I think there's a section left because there
are many Democrats and I've listed specifically listed them earlier
today who have who are also hold the flag in
high esteem, and who have tried to pass a congressional
i'm sorry, constitutional amendment to bar desecration of the flag,

(20:15):
and so far they've come within one vote of being
able to do it. So it's not just it's not
a Republican versus Democrat issue. It is, I think an
issue regarding a lot of conservatives, a lot of independence,
a lot of center of the road, and some Democrats
versus a very vocal, woke minority, progressive minority, and communist

(20:41):
minority who don't have a problem with desecration of the flag.
But what's happened is that there are some things that
are actually even more important than the symbolism of the flag,
and one of those things is the First Amendment. The
First Amendment is held by many, including myself, to be

(21:03):
probably the most important freedom that is codified in the
US Constitution, and that is what Texas versus Johnson upheld.
They upheld even above flag burning, even above the flag itself,
they upheld freedom of speech and found that burning the
flag and you are absolutely right, as long as it

(21:26):
did not incite violence, was protected political expression. And in
Johnson Texas versus Johnson, they found specifically that burning the
flag in this instant did not incite violence and therefore
was protected speech. And as I said before, each of
these cases has been very specifically tailored to whatever form

(21:48):
of a political protest was going on. The putting of
the tape of the peace sign on the flag was
in the nineteen seventy four case was not desecration. The
burning of the flag is not desecration. All of these
cases were not desecration because no violence was incited. And

(22:11):
that's basically the issue. President Trump's executive order specifically says,
and I have played the cuts a couple times this morning,
saying where violence is incited. They put that in there
specifically to tailor what they were doing to the decision,

(22:32):
the Texas decision. But the problem is is that none
of these cases, none of them have anything to do
with violence. And I know people interpret burning the flag
is violent, but the Supreme Court is said it isn't
unless it results in somebody getting hurt, and so far
that has not happened. So I understand your point, and

(22:55):
I think President Trump understands your point extremely well, and
that is why he tailored his executive order to say
where violence may happen the problem, but he also said
where it also does not run a foul of the
First Amendment. And my issue is there is no instance
when it doesn't run a foul of the First Amendment.

(23:16):
And it's always going to be an issue with the
First Amendment. And there is a violence exception to the
First Amendment. And that's why you have the the you
can't yell fire in a in a crowded movie theater
because that's held not to be that's it felt to
be not a violation the First Amendment because there is

(23:36):
danger associated to it. By the way, just want to
point out that that example drives me crazy all the
time when people say you can't yell fire in a
movie theater. You can yell fire in a movie theater
if there is a fire. So it has to do
with what happens afterward, the violence afterward. You are exactly
right in regard to your interpretation of both the Johnson

(23:58):
case and the brandon Burg case and all the other cases.
If violence happens, then this does not apply. Is what
all of these cases stand for, and what President Trump's
executive Order stands for. That still doesn't That still doesn't
make it okay to criminalize burning the flag under the

(24:23):
executive order because you have to you have to prove
that it didn't run a foul of the First Amendment.
And I don't see any instance where that can happen.
But I understand the exception. It stands for all First
Amendment exceptions. Whenever there's violence, of the First Amendment is
not applied. So your point is very well taken, Susan,

(24:45):
and I appreciate it very much. Let's go to Mike
in Linfield. Mike, welcome to w RKO. Do you approve
of President Trump's Executive Order?

Speaker 5 (24:56):
Absolutely not. I didn't approve of ORR, and has to
attempting that two thousand and six he tried to pass
an amendment back then he did. I consider there's a
win for the flag burners. They pushed Trump's buttons and
then got them to sign the CEO after he has
such a great head of esteem on the economy and
foreign policy and the illegals, and you know, with the

(25:18):
terifts and everything else. I mean, why would he do
this now before the mid terms. It's going to deal
off libertarians, and it's upsetting a lot to a lot
of people, including me, because it's a win for the flag.
It's a win for the flag burners.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
So you agree with it with the earlier caller who
thought that doing signing this executive order was handing his
opposition bullets for the next for the midterm elections.

Speaker 5 (25:40):
Neighbors who want who are pushing his buttons, they know
what buttons to push that he gets so upset about.
That's why there's probably more flag burnings. And now there's
going to be even a lot more because now he's
going into pieces for civil disobedience. So I can see
a lot more flag burnings because of the executive order.
He had hundreds of millions of us respecting the flag
with no one because it was from our heart. Now

(26:04):
what's that worth.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
It's still worth the same thing it was worth before.
It doesn't go away just because it's an executive order.
It has nothing to do with if you respect and
revere the flag. This doesn't affect you.

Speaker 5 (26:20):
Play I considered stand for freedom, your freedom anymore it
has the stain on it, this executive order stain on it.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
In my mind, See, I don't understand why I think
the executive Order is a stain on the flag. The
executive I don't see how, to be honest with you,
I don't see that at all. I see. What I
see is an issue with the separation of powers in
regard to the Supreme Court, which has ruled upon the subject,

(26:48):
the Legislature which is trying to rule on the subject,
and the Executive Order, which is running roughshod over both
of them. That's where I see the issue. I don't
view it as a stain on the flag.

Speaker 5 (26:58):
How So, the flag flew on its own. It was free,
It stood for freedom, no matter what it made it made.
Lunatics who burned the flag made them look stupid. So
the burning very simple of the freedom to do that.
So these are just idiots, and there's always idiots among everything,
a very small percentage.

Speaker 6 (27:18):
I mean, these are stupid people. That's what way I
always thought of them. Yeah, you're how stupid? Could you
be to burn this flag is your symbol of the
right to do that.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
So what's changed about that? Because that's been good and
that's not new by the way, that's been going on
since you know, the Vietnam War or before. So stupid
people burning the flags, I mean, their protest is not
a novel thing. So why does President Trump coming up
with an executive order to codify this is criminal? How
does that put a stain on the flag.

Speaker 5 (27:48):
That it's a basis for civil disobedience.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
It's always been a basis for civil disobedience. It's always
been that.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
Civil disobedience is why it's against the law. And it
wasn't against law before, so it wasn't so disobedience. It's
still disbeedios to do it in spite of the law
it wasience.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
What it's been is a sign of disdain for the
United States and that hasn't changed. So it's like the
guys kneeling at the football football games to show disdain
for the flag, I mean, the people burning, it's like
they're all the same, ilk, all the same. I want
to show you I disdained. So I'm going to take
your your biggest symbol that you have and I'm going
to do something disrespectful to it. That's what that it's not.

(28:29):
That's not going to change. That's the way it's been.
I mean, it didn't cause a rash of flag burnings
in the past few years. Why do you think it's
going to start start doing that now? They've been the
same people who were doing it thirty years ago. Are
the same people who are doing it now.

Speaker 5 (28:44):
Oh, there'd be more people. Don now they're going to
increase it because you see more flag burnings because now
it's against the law, whereas before it wasn't. So they
always how luitics doing it before.

Speaker 6 (28:54):
Now you're left.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
It's still going to be lunatics doing it. Mike, that
that hasn't changed.

Speaker 5 (29:00):
Not people that want to you know, Pope Trump, that's
what the that's to be thinking.

Speaker 6 (29:05):
They're going to get away with it because we are
all these judges.

Speaker 5 (29:07):
They're not going to throw people in jail.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
For well, you know that that's a good point. We'll see,
you know how many rogue judges there are out there.
They may just do that because it looks you know,
it makes them look like they're following the loss, and
maybe they'll throw people in jail for it. Maybe they won't.
We'll have to find out. I think that's do you
think this is all part of President Trump's master plan
to see exactly how crazy the left is?

Speaker 5 (29:32):
It was a stupid move on his part. I like
to know who in his cabinet agreed with him. We
won't find out too after his term, but I think
there's a lot his cabinets don't do this.

Speaker 6 (29:41):
Now. This is not a good move after all that,
Like I said, he has such a great record.

Speaker 5 (29:46):
Up to now, Yeah he did.

Speaker 6 (29:47):
It's like, why do this?

Speaker 1 (29:49):
Well, you know, I'm sure we were going to find
out over the next few weeks what exactly the grand
plan is, whether this was all about. But in order
to get to the Supreme Court again, somebody's going to
have to be arrested. And so there's going to be,
like you said, a lunatic who's going to burn a
flag in public, and then there's going to be an arrest,

(30:10):
and then there's going to be a group is going
to try to get him out, or the DOJ is
going to go after some hapless ada who's not prosecuting,
or who knows what the combination is going to be.
But if there if their purpose behind this was to
get it to the Supreme Court to get it codified
again or to overturn the Johnson, Texas versus Johnson case.

(30:32):
Then we're going to find out within the next you know,
six months to a year, if that's the plan and
how that shakes out. So but thank you so much
for your call, Mike. I appreciate it very much. Let's
talk to Larry in Boston. Larry, do you approve of
the executive order?

Speaker 7 (30:51):
Somewhat?

Speaker 1 (30:52):
Okay?

Speaker 7 (30:53):
I think I think that the main thing we have
to remember is that during nine to eleven we saw
nothing but flags everywhere, on every cab and everybody's houses.
There's follow the place, and there seems to be a
lot of respect for the flag. Now. I just came
from a funeral from a veteran of a World War

(31:16):
Two vet and they had a great ceremony with the flag.
And that's been going on now since I don't know
when it's said it, but it's been going on for
a very long time. And all those veterans that lost
their lives, you know, died after being in the service,
they did their job to give these people this freedom

(31:40):
that they have, and now it seems to be taking
the being abusing it. But you just to look at
who's burning the flag and on these TV news clips
and stuff, and it's not it's not freedom that's being represented.
It's like the freedom is being stomped on. And I

(32:01):
just so you know, no one else to say it
just seems like it's his idea is good, But what's
going to happen, you know as a results of it.
We saw what happened when nine to eleven happened. Everybody
was patriotic and then it disappeared.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
And well, do you think, Larry, do you think Larry
that now there's a resurgence in patriotism? Has there been
a resurgence in the past couple of years? I mean,
for you know, during the Biden administration and actually before that,
during the Obama administration. Somebody pointed out earlier that you know,
President Obama didn't want the American flag hungover areas where

(32:45):
the US was giving aid to natural disaster countries. He
also went on an apology tour for you know, across
the US. Oh and I remember in his first term,
you remember Michelle Obama getting up and saying, for the
first time she was proud to be an American as
an adult fact, I have that cut hang on, I

(33:05):
know I have that cut in my in my arse.
I do play cut fifty please, Mike.

Speaker 8 (33:13):
Let me tell you something. For the first time in
my adult lifetime, I'm really proud of my country, and
not just because Barack is done well, but because I
think people are hungry for change.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
So I mean, so that's kind of what set the
tone for patriotism in that administration that was followed through
in the Biden administration too, because you know, President Biden
used to get out there and say, you know, we're
an idea. We may not hit, we may not we
may not be successful in that idea, planting the seed

(33:48):
that you know, we weren't about freedoms. And so I
think that patriotism took a big hit in the past,
you know, a dozen years or so, with the exception
of you know, President Trump when he at the White
House for four years. But do you think now, Larry,
that it's starting to come back again.

Speaker 7 (34:06):
I think I think it will cause a lot of
what's the same thing that's going on now. The people
that believe in patriotism and believe in the country and
the people that are here that.

Speaker 9 (34:22):
Say they don't, they demonstrate that that they don't. They
are here, but they don't like what the flag represents
and what freedom represents. But yet they're you know, showing
everything the wrong way that you know, with all with

(34:43):
all the riots and all the all the other stuff
that's been going on. And I can say Sanny is
like Allan's and National Cemetery. That's that's what this country,
these people fought for from going I have.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Grew up in DC, I've been, I've spent time in Arlington.
It is one of the few places on Earth that
I would call awe inspiring I've been to, uh there.
Only one other place has the same feeling for me,
and that would be the American Cemetery in Normandy and France,
where I had the same sense when I was there.
But Arlington is literally awe inspiring when you look at

(35:24):
the people who are buried there and what they gave
for their country, and you see whole You'll see like
whole flight crews being buried together from World War two
or one, or or Vietnam War, any of the wars,
and it is it is one of those very sobering,
uh just breath taking places that I think everybody should

(35:46):
visit at some point in time.

Speaker 7 (35:48):
It's it's it's just po and there's a lot of beers.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
There are a lot of bears. Larry absolutely thank you
for the call. I appreciate it very much. I think
I think Larry's point is well taken. I think that
the President Trump is doing this to I don't know.
Do you think he's doing this too to gin up patriotism?
Is he hoping to generate support for the flag and

(36:18):
patriotism in order to have Americans coalesce more? Because Lord knows,
unto the last president, who claimed he was a peacemaker,
he did nothing but divide this country, you know, ferociously.
So maybe what President Trump is doing by signing the
executive order is trying to get people to coalesce around

(36:40):
the American flag and generate more patriotism. I don't know
is that a reasonable reading of what President Trump did,
because he can't honestly think he can do an end
run around the Supreme Court by signing an executive order.
I would not think Bill from Sudbury, welcome to w RKO.
How are you Bill?

Speaker 6 (36:59):
A little good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning,
instead of the free speech argument. I kind of like
the personal property argument. My big thinking is, if you
go down to the store and you buy that flag,
that flag belongs to you. It's yours. You can do
with it what you will.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
The guy down the street has no say in it.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
Well, what about this? What about the symbolism of the flag?

Speaker 2 (37:23):
Bill?

Speaker 6 (37:24):
Do you want to trigger a thousand calls to your
local police department because somebody doesn't have a spotlight on
the flag at night or something? Do you want to deputize.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
Nobody is talking about Nobody is talking about calling, not
putting a spotlight on a flag desecration. They're talking about
burning bill. There's a huge difference, don't you think.

Speaker 6 (37:44):
How about tearing it down off of the Capitol and
hoisting a Trump flag in its place, and everybody cheers.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
Nobody's done. Nobody did that either bill. Again, nobody has
talked about that that particular action, but specifically talking about
burning the flag. Do you have a problem with President
Trump signing an executive order criminalizing burning the flag?

Speaker 6 (38:09):
The condemnedment, tearing the flag down off the capitol and
hoisting the bill.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
Flag, that's not what we're talking about. Nobody has hoisted
a Trump flag over anything. We're talking about burning the
American flag.

Speaker 6 (38:23):
The reverence for the flag is completely fake, and you
proved it on January sixth.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
Reverence for the flag capital. First of all, my reverence
for the flag is completely fake. You don't know nothing
about me. How would you know how I feel about
the flag other than what I've told you, which is.

Speaker 6 (38:39):
Because I'm not outraged on January sixth when they tore
it down to hoist the Trump.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
Nobody hoisted a Trump flag over the Capitol on January sixth.
I mean, I don't know if you had a dream
or you thought that happened, but it did not happen.
Nobody did that, And absolutely I feel strongly about the flag,
as do I. Just I think everybody who called this
morning has some feeling for the flag, except for you,

(39:05):
who seemed to be obsessed with something called a Trump flag, which,
by the way, I've never seen. Is there a Trump flag,
I'm unaware of it. Did he hang it over mar
A Lago or did he do it over his hotels?
I don't know. I've never seen it, nor have I
seen anybody even try to hoist a Trump flag, never
mind put it over the Capitol or take down the
United States flag. I think if there's one thing that

(39:25):
everybody can agree upon, both friends and enemies alike, is
that Donald Trump is a pretty patriotic guy. You may
not agree with how he follows through on his patriotism.