The Mental Health Crisis

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Mental Wellness Center. Put the name of your state before that,
So Massachusetts Wellness Center or Florida Wellness Center or Kentucky
Wellness Center. Does this sound like a good idea to you?
This is Sandy Shack sitting in for Jeff Cooner here
on the Cooner Report. President Trump wants to reopen state
mental hospitals. Maybe changing the name will make that sound

(00:23):
a little less draconian to help the criminally insane and
you know, make our state streets safer at the same time.
Is this a good idea? Sandy from Swampscott, Welcome to WRKL.
How are you Sandy?

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Here your voice? I loved listening to you for years
when you were on the radio on a constant basis
that I miss you.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Oh, thank you, thank you very much.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
I like the name that you were just speaking of.
I totally agree with you. It needs different branding. I
hate this stigma because it's just one big broad strip
of someone who really has been stolen because of their
illness from daily life. And what is your opinion of

(01:14):
Compassion Center?

Speaker 3 (01:17):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:17):
I like Compassion Center. That's nice, although I think that
it's maybe a little true, too broad based. Maybe how
about mental Wellness and Compassion Center.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
I think anytime that we address because of the years
of mental illness, mental mental, you know, I think I
think the term mental, even though it identifies that it
comes from my head, I think it has a bad
Oh they're mentally ill, they're funny, you know, they're weird

(01:50):
or whatever. But it's I think it's inviting people into
being compassionate for the suffering. Also, people who go there,
as it was mentioned earlier, their heart is broken to
see one of their loved ones going through what they're
going through and feeling very helpless. Is they're not able

(02:11):
to help them as they'd love to. So I think
it's a lot of compassion from both sides because they
are suffering.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
Okay, how about Wellness and Compassion Center.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
That's even better. There you go, Yeah, that's even better
because how can you be snarky when they come out
and you know, say, I know you love that word yo, right, yeah,
because compassion is from the heart. And like you said,

(02:47):
what did you say again? Say it again?

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Wellness and Compassion Center?

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yes? Yes, And another point you brought out I thought
was very interesting. Are you going to be able to
carry these names on to Trump? In some way. Yeah, sure,
that's good because I think as Salem and you know
the way he talks, plus his heart, he just can't
help himself. The whole thing. Asylum, it just really has

(03:19):
a horrible sound, and it had a really bad reputation
in so many ways back then. I would love to
see that very well.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
I don't disagree with that asylum. As an asylum, to
be honest with you, kind of evokes like eighteen hundreds.
To me. It's an asylum, you know from Actually, you
know what it makes me think of is Dracula and
Renfrew and taking over them insane Islama eating bugs. That's
what I think of when I hear the term asylum
is count Dracula and friends. So I completely get the

(03:52):
asylum and one flew over the Cuckoo's nest. Same thing,
same kind of bad connotations when I hear the word asylum.
But you know President Trump, and he's a straight shooter
and he sometimes lacks tact, but I don't think that
makes his intent any less pure. And I think in
this particular case, he's looking at a broad picture of

(04:15):
fighting crime, one which is on his front burner right now,
as well as compassion for the Crimlin saying, because what
kind of life is it to be crazy and on
the streets and so that you were hurting yourself and
other people. I can't imagine that, no matter how far
gone you are, if you have a choice, that you
want to do that. But a lot of these people

(04:35):
don't have a choice. And that's why President Trump thinks
it's a good I think that's why I started the conversation,
and I think we can certainly, we can certainly respond
to that. And we may not be able to achieve
all the things that we've talked about today, but we
can certainly achieve a number of them. And I think
the first step is reopening the hospitals and putting into place,

(04:56):
you know, the oversight that we need in order to
make them a safe place for people to be. And
then work on the legislative issues that we need in
regard to insurance and in regard to people being committed
to them without their without their permission. I think you

(05:17):
need to find a due process way to do that,
and then and then that will start trickling down and
taking care of Not to steal a phrase from President Biden,
who like to you know, bad mouth trickle down theory.
But I think once you alleviate that stress of the
criminally insane and the people who are really profoundly disturbed

(05:38):
from the mid level and lower level programs, I think
they'll start to straighten themselves out a little bit, don't
you think, Sandy, Well, I see it.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
More as a you know, there's a lot of eyes
in those hospitals where they can look at them without
people have been terribly exposed not only to weather, but
to a lot of quality and unsanitary situations that's been
happening when they're let go closings in the fund was cool.

(06:11):
John F. Kennedy, with his compassion with his sister, you know,
was the one who really opened a door in a
positive way. And then unfortunately, you know, practically a decade later,
they were almost closing all of them.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
So well, you know, the Kennedy family has still been
very involved in issues regarding the disabled, and it's to
this day and so they're besides running the Special Olympics
and but they're also involved in the day to day
issues regarding uh, some of the independent living systems that

(06:49):
are in Massachusetts. I can't speak for other states, but
I know those in Massachusetts so you know that legacy
lives on. Thank you for the call, Sandy. I appreciate
it very much. Yeah. I know people say it's just
a name who cares, But I think Sandy's right. You
need a positive name, You need to put a positive
spin on things, and you need to put resources behind

(07:11):
opening state hospitals so they're not prisons and they're not
the asylums of the eighteen hundreds. If there's some place
where people can go to be safe. In his jihad
against crime, President Trump has suggested that one of the
things that would help would be reopening the insane asylums.

(07:31):
Those are his words, because you don't want crazy people
walking around. Do you agree with that. I think that
what he did by tossing that out there was open
the discussion on mental health and how it needs to
be fixed, because it affects not just the people who are,
in his term, crazy, it affects everybody because if those

(07:53):
people are left out on the streets, they create dangerous situations,
not just for themselves, but for everybody. And that's when
the reasons why President Trump wants to reopen the state
mental hospitals. I see it even further to open the
state mental hospitals. One corrects a wrong that was done
in the seventies and eighties, because they shouldn't have been

(08:13):
closed to begin with, and an earlier caller, I think
put their finger right on it. You had well meaning
people who really didn't know what they were doing, who
thought that by they were doing something positive for people
by getting rid of these centers that had become known
for abuse. But in actuality, what they did was turn

(08:35):
the denizens of the asylums into homeless people. They just
tossed them out onto the street and let them fend
for themselves. There was nothing in place to help these people,
and so you know, a lot of them ended up
dying on the street and taking other people with them.
So there's it was just a whole raft of unintended

(08:57):
consequences that were dire, and I think I think that
by bringing those hospitals back in a different, more modern way,
where there's a lot more supervision and a lot more
humane treatment, I think that takes pressure off the rest
of the system and enables the rest of the system
to operate as it should and not be clogged up

(09:19):
with people who are too profoundly disturbed to really take
advantage of the middle to lower level systems, and the
people who could take advantage of them can't because the
resources are too badly stretched. And so I think it's
a win win for everybody. But he's getting a lot
of criticism regarding opening the state hospitals because the people

(09:43):
who close them to begin with now have to look
at their failed experiment and take ownership of it, and
they don't want to do that, and they certainly don't
want President Trump to be the person to salvage the situation.
So I think that is why people are putting roadblocks
up against what should be a win win for everybody.

(10:05):
I think it's a fantastic idea. What do you think,
Bob in Raynham, Welcome to w RKO. How are you, Bob?

Speaker 4 (10:13):
Good?

Speaker 5 (10:13):
O you Sandy?

Speaker 1 (10:14):
I'm doing fine. Do you think this is a good
idea to reopen the state mental hospitals?

Speaker 5 (10:19):
I do, But I can already hear the lefties saying,
oh my god, this is what Hitler did. He rounded
up the mentally ill. So I think instead of doing
going at it at a state level, I think President
Trump should begin at the federal level with the VA

(10:41):
Hospital and the homeless and or mentally ill vets and
I'm speaking from experience here. Unfortunately, my dad was mentally
ill and he was in the VA system back in
the sixties when they did do shock meant they did do.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
It was one flow over their menders asked in the sixties.

Speaker 5 (11:05):
Yeah, it pretty much was.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (11:07):
But fast forward to the eighties and unfortunately my brother
was involved in the VA system and although it's not
at that level, it really isn't much better. And you know,
everybody comes out and says, oh, we love that, thanks
for your service, blah blah blah blah blah. But when
it when it And I've heard good things about the
VA regarding like, you know, if you're a cognizance that

(11:31):
you know you need knee surgery or whatever. I guess
that type of care is top notch. But as far
in my both of my experiences them, dealing with mental
illness is a disgrace. And President Trump should start with that,
which is something he has control of. I know he
put Scott Brown in charge his first term. I don't

(11:53):
know who's in charge now, but no.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Scott, Scott Brown was not in charge his first term.
Scott Brown was in bad to New Zealand in his
first term.

Speaker 5 (12:03):
Oh okay, I thought he was put I think.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
He was one of the finalists for his Secretary of
the of the Veterans Administration. Okay, but he had no
he was the ambassador to New Zealand. He was not
had nothing to do with the VA.

Speaker 5 (12:17):
Sorry, but yeah, I mean I think President Trump instead
of fighting all these crazy lefties that as you say,
they they won't. They won't give him credit for anything. No,
I mean, just look at just look at what happened
in his first term when he brought the hospital ships
up to New York and they wouldn't put one patient

(12:38):
on there. Instead they would have rather them, which they did,
put him back in the nursing homes and allow them
to die.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (12:45):
So I think I think again, he has control over
the federal issues, so he should begin there because he's
just going to get flat tooth and nailed by the states,
I believe.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
Well, can he do both the same time? I mean,
he is bringing reform to the VA system, and I
agree that a focus on mental health is required, and
absolutely he needs to put attention there. But is there
any reason why they can't do both? Because he can't
order the states to open their mental asylums. What he

(13:19):
can do is make it appealing to the states to
do it by offering federal funding, by offering federal resources
to make them want to do it. That's how he
has to do that. He can't make them, so I think.
But he can make the VA do stuff. So I
think he could do both of those things, don't you think, Bob.

(13:39):
He can focus federal resources on beefing up the mental
health facilities of the VA, while at the same time
the Congress can make it appealing for state hospitals to reopen.
I think they can both be done at the same time.
I think they can multitask that, don't you.

Speaker 5 (13:58):
File You would think so, and you would hope so,
because as you say, and I agree with you that,
you know, get these people off the streets is a
benefit to all of us, the US and really everyone
involves society.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
I don't see any downside for anybody. So thank you
so much for the call, Bob, and I hope your
family is doing well. Let's go to Priscilla in Florida. Priscilla,
Welcome to WRKO. How are you, Priscilla? Is Priscilla there?
I don't think so I think Priscilla may have a

(14:36):
phone problem. Okay, let's go to Jay on the South Shore.

Speaker 5 (14:38):
Jay.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Welcome to WRKO.

Speaker 3 (14:41):
Hey, Sandy, great job, what a beautiful day today. Part
of the problem is they just keep enabling these kids
and adults to continue with their drug addiction.

Speaker 6 (14:53):
Like everybody has.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
A family member that got hooked up on the pills
or the heroine or whatever.

Speaker 6 (14:59):
And there's no one incentive to ever make them better.
They just keep prolonging it with methadone and all that.
But I think one approach Trump should take is he
should put together a little task force and go out,
have it all filmed, go to these places and ask
people who wants help today. Start there, who wants help today?

(15:22):
And I guarantee you half of those people don't want
to be there. They're trapped, they're looking for a way out.
And he could televise and show we're here to help.
We're not here to lock anybody up. But let's start
with those who want the help. Whoever wants to help,
come here, step forward, will help you. And instead of

(15:43):
sugar coating the name and call it, you know, rock
a by Baby Rehab, call it was, let's call it
what it really is the last resort because for many
of these folks, it is the last resort because to

(16:04):
maintain that lifestyle, you know, I know, it's a death sentence. Yeah,
So why don't we start with going out and saying, hey,
you had a tough go at it, would you like
some help? We're here to help. And if even you
can pull four or five people out of a thousand,
it's a place to start. So what do you think
about that?

Speaker 1 (16:24):
I think that's not a bad idea at all, Jay,
I think I think, first of all, you can't help
somebody until they want to be helped. But what I
think what in regard to but I think what you're
talking about there is mid level. These are not the
people that would go into a statemental hospital to begin with.
I think these are mid level programs that serve a

(16:46):
vital function and we need to preserve and protect. But
what President Trump, I believe, is talking about is clearing
out people who are currently either a danger to themselves
or to others that are on this STA and also
clearing them out of these mid level programs because they
really cannot be helped at this point in time. What

(17:07):
you're trying to do now is protect them from themselves
and protect others from them. You're not talking about people
who are going to volunteer for help and try to
try to better themselves. These are people who are just
trying to survive that. I think there's a big difference,
and I think that's what he's trying to focus on
first because it also helps with the crime issue. This
is the Kooner Report. I am Sandy Shack sitting in

(17:28):
for Jeff Kooner, and the question we've asked is should
the state medical hospitals be reopened? Because President Trump says yes?
What do you say? Let's go to Brian in Tewksbury. Brian,
Welcome to WRKO.

Speaker 4 (17:43):
The great topic. Listen, let me preface this by saying,
you're talking to a guy that disagrees with Donald Trump
on almost everything, but he is spot on this. And
I think it was Tommy that called a little earlier.
He gave a lot of the good history. I just
want to kind of expand on that a little bit.
Fifteen years ago in Massachusetts we had as much as

(18:08):
sixteen hundred state operated in patient beds for mental health
were down to under six hundred.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Oh wow.

Speaker 4 (18:18):
Rooted is something called the Olmsted decision. It was a
court case, a federal court case that said, wherever possible,
states should strive to deliver care in the community. It
was called the Community First initiative, and as Tommy said,
it was well intentioned. But what has happened over time

(18:40):
is Community First has essentially become community only, and there
are no more inpatient beds in the state. And that's
why you've got people bordered in emergency rooms in prisons,
and that's why you've got people walking around the streets
homeless because there is no place for them to go.

(19:00):
Even further compounding the problem is the state has basically
handed off all of this care to so called private
nonprofits to deliver the care. And if you look at
these nonprofits, the state literally contracts with hundreds of them,
and each one of them has their own highly compensated

(19:24):
team of executives. And we know this because their tax
loans in their nine nineties are available online through a
website called guide Star. And I'm talking people. There are
people who are getting really, really rich off this stuff.
People making high million dollar salaries to run these so

(19:44):
called nonprofits. They pay their staff nothing. A lot of
the staff are on public assistance, so they're not adequately
staffed in the community. And you know, you've been kicking
around a lot of great names. There is actually a
shining example in Massachusetts that's still left. It's called the

(20:06):
Worcester Recovery Center and it was built under mid Romney.
Actually it's a brand new that it's not brand new anymore,
but actually within the Department of Mental Health. The nickname
for it is the Courtyard at DMH. It is absolutely
beautiful and it has beauty polish in there for example,

(20:31):
you know, for for patients to go down and you
get makeovers, I mean, and that's just in the absolutely
beautiful facilities, beautiful grounds. But it's essentially other than the
hospital in Taunton, which daval Patrick tried to close it repeatedly.
And uh, it's it's really the only place for state

(20:55):
operated in patient beds in What Donald Trump could do,
all these are all funded through federal fonts. What he
could do was is they could stipulate that this federal
money be only used for state operated care and that
would get rid of a lot of these nonprofit ventors

(21:17):
that are sucking hundreds of millions of dollars in an
executive pay alone out of the system and bring up
this stock because these facilities, they're not just for people
that need to spend years there, right. There are some
people that go out into the community care and they
do very very well, but then they have a relapse

(21:39):
but whatever reason, and they need what they call respite
care where they have to go in maybe for thirty
or sixty days, but there's no place for them to go,
and that's why they end up sitting in the hallways
of an emergency room.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
I think that is a great idea stipulate for the
stake here. I am very familiar with the nonprofits that
you're talking about. I've dealt firsthand with a number of them,
so it's on behalf of a family member. So I
do understand exactly what you're talking about. And you've made

(22:16):
me want to go to the Guide Star and start
making a list of salaries to use it, you know,
in the next time we have a conversation with why
you know, the staff members are not of the of
the correct experience level that they should be in in
some of these homes. I think you've given the Trump

(22:40):
administration some very good advice Brian as to how to
move forward, not just in Massachusetts, but I think in
other places as well. Who knew I did not know
about the Worcester Recovery Center. I think that is a
place absolutely worth exploring. Thank you so much for the information, Brian,
and for the call. Let's go to Judy in Maine. Judy,

(23:01):
welcome to w r KO. How are you.

Speaker 7 (23:05):
Either know that I'm calling on behalf of medical professionals
like myself who have worked in healthcare with these types
of situations, And how can I put this? I think
any legislation or any decision. I have seen so many
co workers get injured by mentally ill patients, and we

(23:32):
can see what's happening, like the guy said pushing a
little old lady off a subway platform. The community is
getting hurt in general, but a lot of medical professionals
get hurt by patients. By these patients, because you're on
the front behind well, it's no wonder people don't want
to work in the industry. I got out of it

(23:53):
for that reason. I saw a nurse get beat up
by a mentally ill patient and she ended up in
the hospital for months that could never work again. And
the poor girl was trying to pay off loans that
she went to nursing school, and she had to pay
off loans because she wanted to do good for them. Anyway,
I think every decision that is made has to be

(24:14):
made not necessarily patience centric, the general population centric. We
are so focused. I mean, I don't want to I'm
a compassionate person. As a matter of fact, I had
mental illness in my family. My mother almost had almost
killed my father. I won't go into detail, but she
almost killed them because of her mental work.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
I need to stop you there because we're out of time,
but I understand what you're saying. You're saying that you
also have to take into not just the patients, but
the community at large and the medical community that takes
care of these people. I think that's what Donald Trump
had in mind when he's talking about reopening the state
mental hospitals, because he's talking about removing people such as
the person who hurt your friends, your fellow co work

(25:00):
or there, putting them in a place that's more suited
for the illness or for the disturbance that they have.