Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Sandy Shack sitting in for Jeff Cooner here
on the Kooner Report. We're talking about the demise of
the state mental hospitals, which President Trump wants to bring
him back. And before the break we were speaking with
Dave and Vermont, who I believe. Dave, tell me if
I if I'm saying's correctly. So you were talking about
a state sponsored farm prior to that that you used
(00:22):
to see growing up, and you were impressed by the
fact that the farm gave the people, the people who'd
been at the hospital or the school purpose and so
then the farm closed because somebody else was more was
was because their production was not as good as another farm.
Is that the deal?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I don't think that's so much a deal as the state.
It's like like any government organization. There was greed involved,
in corruption involved in mismanagement involved, and the wrong the
blame went to the wrong people and everything. But from
what I've seen, I mean, these people really need to
TELP and there wasn't the state facilities weren't really that
(01:08):
much existent back then, and the people weren't trained back
then because mental illness really wasn't that big of a
problem back then. Or I would say.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I would say, David, it wasn't as identifiable as it
is now. They didn't know what it was. I think
back then we've learned more and more about it as
we've evolved. I think there were mental illness, but it
wasn't identifiable. People didn't know that that's what it was.
I think in a lot of cases it was also
more hidden. You know, it used to be you know,
they used to put people mental illness was basically in
(01:43):
regard to other illnesses, was in the backyard, and I
think now it's on the front porch. So I think
that's one of the differences why it made it a
peer that it wasn't as big a problem back then.
I think it was we just didn't know that's what
it was. I think that's part of it. I mean,
you don't have to agree it did.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Back back then was kind of like in the backwoods.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, And there was a.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Lot of farm fields and everything, and it was a
very calmer, peaceful type of life. You didn't have horns
blaring all the time. They were on farms, real real
working farms. They got wood. They like I said, they grew,
they grew crops, They had girry, they had beef, they
had we put up silo. I remember silos and chopping
(02:27):
corn and uh drinking some of the white lightning coming
off the bottom of the silos and uh yeah. But
I remember working with some of these people, watching the
crafts that they did and everything, and it was it
was actually it was a place for them to be
where they really were didn't seem like that. Maybe I
(02:49):
don't know what went on behind the scenes, but they
all had a smile on their face and they were
talking happy when they would greet you, and.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
They they were contribute. They had a place to contribute, is.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
What you're saying, exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I think that goes a long way for people to
feel like they have a purpose, that they have that
they can contribute to their environment. Is very very important,
and I think that a lot of that was lost
when the asylums, the mental hospital state mental hospitals were
closed and people were just basically ejected. They were essentially
just they opened the door and said here, have a
(03:26):
good life and kicked people out who had nowhere to go.
And not only did they lose their home, but they
lost as you were saying, they lost their the means
by which they could contribute. They lost the means by
which they could feel that they could function on any level,
because you know, they went from from not having to
worry about a roof over their head and their medication
(03:49):
and food to now worrying about survival. And that's a
whole different environment that requires that that turns some people
into animalistic or brings out the animalistic tendencies. And I think,
you know, it only makes somebody who has teetering on
the brink worse. And I think it contributed to the
(04:12):
level of criminal insanity rising. But thank you so much
for the call, Dave. I appreciate it very much. President
Trump says, one of the answers to crime on the
streets is let's reopen the state mental facilities because that
were closed decades ago because these people had nowhere to
go but on the street, and it made them worse,
It made the streets worse. And isn't it more humane
(04:34):
to open those hospitals and to help those people than
to just let them room free. Carrie in Franklin, Welcome
to WRKO. How are you Carrie?
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Hello? Hi?
Speaker 4 (04:49):
Hi you still there?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Oh okay, Yeah, I'm good. My name is Carrie, and
I'm calling about a situation in my family, and there
was a solution there. She was my sister in law
a long time ago. She was diagnosed with schizophrenia. She
was nineteen, so therefore she was an adult and she
(05:12):
had rights. So she was on the street and we
couldn't get her off the street and she was getting
into trouble and getting hurt. So her parents went to
court and they were able to get legal guardianship. I
don't know exactly how that works, but that's what they did.
And they were able to, you know, make her go
(05:33):
to a place where she could be taken care of.
Because she wouldn't take her meds and she didn't take
her met she's kind of had to control. So they
got her into a halfway house and I was probably
twenty years ago. She's still there and she's doing great.
And one of the stipulations was you can stay here,
(05:53):
but you have to take your meds. If you don't
take your meds, you have to go somewhere else, and
you may not like it there.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
So so she made friends, she has a part time
job and as long as she takes a mitch, she's fine.
See that that was the only way that we could
do that.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, well, that's what those houses are for for people
like your sister in law. I mean, that's what it's for.
It's not for the criminally insane. But the problem is
when they when they closed the hospitals, there was nowhere
else for those people to go, and so they got
lumped in with people like your sister in law who
could be helped. And these are people that you know.
(06:32):
Saying to them, take your medsor you have to move
someplace else means nothing. They that doesn't help them. So
that's that's a wonderful story. I'm so glad that that happened,
and and see it does I think we really need
And I'm so grateful that her parents were able to
get a guardianship and a guardian adled them for her.
But that's not usually what I hear. I hear that
(06:55):
people weren't able to do that. So I think we
need to find a way to talk to our legislators
about putting something in place. This is Sandy Shack sitting
in for Jeff Khoner here on the Kooner Report, and
we're talking about President Trump's idea to reopen state mental
hospitals to get the criminally insane off the streets. Is
this a first necessary step to fixing our broken mental
(07:19):
health system and cleaning up our streets all at the
same time. On the text line nine seven eight says
Governor du Kaka has closed all of the mental state
hospitals or state mental hospitals in the seventies or so
to get us where we are today on purpose. We
have plans to open them up, get them back on
track to become a productive member of society. Otherwise they'll
(07:42):
be institutionalized unfortunately, but still taken care of. I agree,
So it's I understand that they're not that. They weren't,
you know, paradise on earth here, But those people were
taken care of. They had a roof over, they had
they were fed, they were medicated, they got help, they
(08:05):
were safe relatively speaking, and none of that. All that
went out the window when they were forced out onto
the streets was their abuse.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Do we need to put safeguard into place so that
doesn't happen again?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Are we better at that than we used to be? Absolutely?
Are there better medications, better treatment now? Absolutely? Will this
help the whole system by taking pressure off the interim
level care units that cannot handle the criminally insane and
allow them to focus on the people they can help. Yes, absolutely,
(08:39):
I don't see a downside to opening the reopening the
state facilities, do you. I guess that's my question for you.
Let's go to Rick in Cambridge. Rick, Welcome to WRKO.
How are you.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Good morning? Great topic. I commend you on your staff
or somehow coming up with this up. One of the
things that I heard a previous call I say, was
forced medication. In my opinion, you can't help someone that
doesn't want to help themselves. Alcohol, drugs, mental illness. Some
(09:17):
some people have all free. Now being a you know,
I hate to say it, as a veteran, I was,
you know, misdiagnosed and I was. I mean, I've been
through the mill myself, and it's just now you get
to know, I'm a little better now.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
You know.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
I don't count your age to her hats But anyway,
you know, you go to life and you do all
these things, but you get to look at someone. In
my opinion, you know the underlying causes, you know, And
I used to dread going to my VA doctor and say,
can you tell me about your childhood and a violent
and I said, they're not sitting here with you today.
(09:57):
I am, you know, and it brings up these memories
and this and that whatever may have happened. And there
are multiple causes in art different you know, everybody has
a horror story, not everybody, but you know, one uh
differential is you know, it's compounded if you're doing if
you've got mental illness to begin with, and then you
(10:18):
go seek help and then they medicate you, and uh,
I mean and then you know, say, jeez, you know,
I mean, I've been The VA used to be notorious
for dispensing certain pharmaceuticals and listening that and a number
one time I went to the pharmacy and the guy
gave me this and they gaming and I'd be coming
(10:38):
outside the door at the VA and hey, what do
you got? What do you got? What do you And
I say, not that you let me out of here.
But anyway, you know, if somebody needs help, you can't
help someone that doesn't want it. But maybe they get
to the point in their life where they're not capable
of making a decision like that. Another thing that I
think is important is they has to be trained to
(11:03):
deal with. You know, these you're going to get people
from all aspects of life. You're going to get this
guy and that girl, and you know, and you know
then when they wind up on the streets, you know
they get God forbid. You know, you look at mounts
and casts, you know, the holes and any these young ladies,
God bless them if they can make it. You know,
(11:25):
they hook up with these individuals and they got one
thing on their minds. You know, what's what's in it
for me? Blah blah blah, how can I make money?
Blah blah blah. And you know, and one of the
things you remember years ago when the pharmaceutical companies, We're
going to the doctors and offering them these huge benefits
(11:46):
of you know, prescribe this drug, prescribe that drug. And
it's just like, oh wow. And these are people, you know,
with education and they're running this and I think you know,
what's the phrase in that movie to tell about avengeance. Yeah,
and uh, once you go to a facility, if you
don't have the proper health insurance. You know, I used to.
(12:09):
I worked for the City of Cambridge. I had the
VA benefits and anywhere, you know, at some certain points.
You know, I struggle with alcoholism and I still do.
You know, every days of battle, you know, and that's
thet you know, you got to remember, you know, the individual.
And there's so many as they call primary secondary underlying cars.
(12:31):
Oh my god. I can go on and on, but uh,
you know the best thing to do is to have
qualified people to deal with. Like as you said earlier,
I think about teaching the car the kids that are
going to college, you know, I think actually they have to, uh,
if they go to a medical profession, they have to
take certain aspects. One of them is drinking, drug and
(12:53):
mental illness and this and that and depending on what
field they go. But uh, it's it's a it's a
you know, it's just it's kind of like air. I
always have a good outlook and see, you know, there's
a right at the in the ternel. Yeah what I
used to say, I hope it's not the train. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Well, I think what you're talking about in regard to
the hospitals and a lot of things being dependent upon insurance,
I think if you reopen the state hospitals, they're not
as dependent upon insurance. So I think that would alleviate
one of those problems. There's one thing that I kind
of disagree with you on, and that was when you're
talking about you can't force somebody to take meds. I
(13:33):
agree you can't force somebody to take meds in the
long term, but you know, the medication thing is a
catch twenty two situation. If you don't take it, you
won't be well enough to know that you need to
take it. So it's a it's an unpleasant kind of
thing that falls back in on itself. I think if
you can get somebody, if you can get them to
take the meds initially, and maybe so the first time
(13:57):
or two they take the meds it's not voluntary, but
maybe that helps them enough so they can make up
they can now discern that it's in their best interests
and then start voluntarily taking it, or get them to
the point where they understand the incentive behind taking it.
Like the caller who was talking about, you know, her
sister in law. They told her basically, if you don't
(14:19):
take your medags, you can't stay here, and here's a
pretty nice place to stay. That was an incentive, and
she was in a place where she could weigh the
options and understand it. That it was in her best interests,
and I think maybe that's I agree with you. For
long term. You can't make somebody take their meds if
they don't want to, if they don't want to be there.
But I think you can initially. And so I don't
(14:41):
know if you agree with that or not, Rick.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
To a certain extent, but the individual, if they have
enough marbles to make the decision. Yeah, I don't mean
to put out right.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
No, but I understand what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Yeah, it's yeah. And you know if I mean, life
is too shot, right, two persons I've been I have.
I have a big problem just getting into an appointment
with Social Security. And when I finally get in there
one day, I looked around and between the people with
mental illness and the people who couldn't speak English. That's
for another day, but it's like I just walked out,
(15:14):
and Uh, it's just a situation where you know, better
days are common. You ever have to have a good outlook,
and there's the sport and help is there if you
have the mental capabilities to make that decision, because somedays
they'll become a point where you are not capable of
making that decision, and you have to be put in
a walk word which happened to happen to me. And
(15:36):
I said to myself, I said, you got to be
kidney here I am. I got an honorable b rategy
fought from my country. And uh I heard it, you
know many many years ago, you know, freedom a free
and I used to sit and uh I got committed
by a judge. I went to some program called Spikeer
of this and that, and I said, holy cow, what
did I do?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
You know?
Speaker 3 (15:58):
And uh now, I'll tell you just one of my
personal So. I know it sounds crazy because no one
is legal now, but that's the gateway, the key in
my opinion. Many people don't agree, but yeah, it starts
with that, and then you try this, then you try this,
you talk about it. Geez. Yeah, But anyway, I'll let
(16:21):
you go. I know you've got a lot of callers
or not a good subject and you get a great staff.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Thank you so much, Rick, I appreciate your call. And
I'm so you sound like you're doing pretty well now.
So I'm very happy for you that it all turned
out all right. And it sounds like even though it
was a excuse me and arduous and probably frightening proposition.
Being committed seems to have put you on a track
to success eventually, and because that's where it sounds like
(16:47):
you are right now, so thank you so much for
the call. I think more people deserve that opportunity to
get the help that they need and possibly get back
on the road to to being productive members of society,
to being able to live their own lives in peace
and with the people around them, like Rick is, like
(17:08):
our earlier caller. Sister in law was at the halfway House,
where she's been for twenty years. And I think the
first step to that is reopening the state mental hospitals
to get people help who may not recognize that they
needed themselves, and to take the pressure off the less
severe programs that are helping or the programs that are
helping people with a less severe issue, because right now
(17:31):
they're overwhelmed, and they're overwhelmed with people who should not
be there, who maybe would be better off in the
state mental facilities. So I know it has stigma attached
to it, and I know it has stigma in regard
to one flew over the Cuckoo's Nest and a place
of abuse, but it doesn't have to be that we
haven't we learned enough, haven't we evolved enough to make
it to make them better places this time around. I
(17:52):
think President Trump is on the right track with this idea.
Do you The number is six one seven two six
six sixty eight sixty eight. We're talking about reopening state
mental hospitals because President Trump gave a print interview to
the Daily Caller during which he said, we need to
open up our asylums again to get the criminally insane
(18:16):
off the straight street. This is all part of his
broader approach to combating crime. And you can't argue with
the success in DC implementing his policies regarding fighting crime.
And so I'm wondering, is this also a successful policy?
Do you think that this would serve its purpose and
help the criminally insane as well as alleviate stress and
(18:37):
pressure on interim programs before you get to the state
institutional level. The text number seven zero four seven zero
two seven says Sandy, Massachusetts doing the same thing to
the intellectually disabled community closing the long term residential treatment facilities.
The problem of homelessness is going to get a lot worse. Also,
(19:00):
the community halfway houses are likely facing another issue those
with intellectual disability face. The workers are not well trained,
and they are usually illegal immigrants. Those with temporary protected
status these homes in the community get no state oversight.
The Boston Globe has written about the abuse faced by
the disabled clients in these homes. I'm sure it happens
(19:21):
to the mentally ill as well. They would all be
safer and receive proper treatment in institutional settings. I have
firsthand knowledge of what you're talking about in regard to
the disabled community, and I completely agree with your assessment
of what's happening there. But the problem with the disabled
community is the same as with the mental ill mentally
(19:42):
ill community, and that is you have different gradations going
on here, one of which is, you know, you have
people who are so profoundly disabled that they really can't
take care of themselves and do a benefit from an
institutional environment. And you have people who are less disabled
or less profoundly disabled and can function outside with a
(20:05):
little assist And so again, I think if you have
institutionalized accommodations available, that you take the pressure off those
houses that are not equipped to deal with the more
profoundly disabled or the more profoundly mentally ill, and therefore
(20:26):
they can hire more better trained people, they can focus
more on those clients that can really benefit from being
in that environment instead of those that are just being
warehoused in that environment. I think it's a win win
for everybody. Do you agree. Let's go to Heather in Maine. Heather,
Welcome to WRKO. How are you, Heather?
Speaker 5 (20:45):
Good morning, Sandy. I'm doing great. How are you?
Speaker 1 (20:48):
I'm fine. So do you think this is a good
idea to reopen the mental hospitals?
Speaker 5 (20:54):
I do think on different levels. First off, I wish
Jeff my best. So growing up in the eighties, my
mother works at Hogan Regional when Danvers State Hospital was closing,
thank God, because she used to tell me about the
people they are being chained, having loblotomies, just crazy stuff happening.
(21:17):
So she worked at the greenhouse with the clients and
they would grow vegetables and flowers and sell them. And
so I really appreciate the earlier crawler talking about the
farms and we on your purpose in life, and I
think that's like as much as we can. I think
that's what we should aim to do with any level
(21:39):
of intellectual or mental disability. So my son works at
one of the intellectually disabled homes on the North Shore.
He's been doing it for a long time. I think
it's a great place for the people that he is
taking care of. But I too have run into things
(22:03):
as another family member where if you try to get
insurance coverage for mental health stuff, the insurance company will
deny it. So unless you are well off, that person's
going to fall through the cracks. And I think that's
where you see the people that are addicted to drugs
(22:23):
and are homeless. So I think personally the villain in
this entire story is the insurance companies. When you have
a psychiatrist recommending, you know, a treatment for somebody that
they know well, but then the insurance company has their
psychiatrists who they pay to deny these people coverage. It
(22:45):
is absolutely criminal. That's why they have the biggest buildings
in the world. They are corrupt. And I would say
that's where Trump needs to start.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Well, I honestly mean start, but I think he need
to pay attention to it. I agree with you. I
think also that sounds like something for Congress to get
involved in regard to passing legislation. Maybe setting up a
board that only has maybe one in maybe insurance people
have to bring in a doctor. Maybe their opinion of
(23:21):
their doctor only gets weighed thirty percent as opposed to
the primary care physician, which gets weighed, you know, seventy percent.
I mean, there are all sorts of ways you can
do that, but we need legislation to make that legal.
So I agree with you that that's one of the
top places that we need to focus our efforts on.
(23:41):
But don't you think opening the state asylums would also help,
because if it's a state asylum, insurance is not going
to be the issue. That they don't rely upon insurance
the same way private houses do or private facilities do.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
I do not like the name asylum, and I think
it's got negative oh yeah connotation. It's really outdated in
my opinion. I like that earlier kl of It said
it should be a wellness center.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Yeah, mental wellness center. I like very much. That's one
of my times I.
Speaker 5 (24:12):
Think that's great.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:13):
Yeah, And I think it should be tiered based on
ability and based on disability. I agree, And you know
the same thing with like the work programs, those should
all be tiered and that should all be teased out.
But that's going to take a lot of people and
a lot of money to do that. But I do
think an auncer prevention is worth a poun of care.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
I agree with you, and I think I think one
of the questions here is is fixing the mental health
system worth our time, effort, and tax money treasure? And
for me, the answer is a big, absolutely thumbs up.
I would rather see our money being spent on this,
(24:57):
our time and effort and energy being spent on on this,
then on detention centers for illegal immigrants that shouldn't be here.
I mean, that's finish. Let's finish what President Trump started
and then closed those down. We don't need to be
supporting those. We don't need to be sending uh the
cell phones and hotel rooms or or allowing illegal aliens
(25:21):
to have hotel rooms and free cell phones and free
clothes and free food, none of that. That can all
be spent on doing these mental wellness centers, as well
as various other programs along with You know, I love
the idea from the earlier color about you said all
billions of dollars went through you said to help people
(25:42):
in other countries. Why can't that money which exists be
funneled back into the mental health system here. So I mean,
I think that there are a lot of things that
tax money is wasted on, and a lot of things
don't need the support of the federal government. But I
think I think this is one of those things that does.
And if we put our mind to it, much like
(26:04):
we put our mind to the space program in the
sixties that was a national effort, if we make a
national effort in regard to mental wellness, I think we
could do something amazing that benefits everybody. It benefits the
people who are criminally insane, who, to be honest with you,
there probably is no hope for, but they will be
(26:25):
taken care of and they will be in a safe
place and be provided for. It will help the people
who are not criminally insane that still have the ability
to maybe get better and function on a level that
is maybe beyond where they are right now. That it
takes the pressure off of that. It takes the pressure
off the halfway houses where people who can really function
(26:47):
every day in life with just a little bit of assistance.
It takes the pressure off of people walking down the
street who are afraid they're going to be assaulted. There's
nobody who does not benefit from this. Do you think
I'm I'm painting to Rosie a picture, Heather.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
I totally agree with you. It all stats with mental health,
you know. I think your physical health stats with your
mental health. So you know, all of us could benefit
from more mental health and more yoga and more, you know,
just taking care of our souls. And I think it
absolutely would help society to bring all of these people up.
(27:27):
And I think I think that is a great policy.
I trust Trump and I do think it's a great idea.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Me too, Heather, absolutely positively. Thank you so much for calling.
I appreciate it very much. I think that President Trump
meant to start the conversation. He obviously did. It was
on his platform when he ran for president, and he's
been to bring back the insane asylums. And I know
that's a pejorative term, Heather, I know for everybody, but
that's the term that President Trump used, and so that's
(27:57):
why I'm using it, even though I actually agree with you.
It's pejorative. You want to take the stigma out of it,
so let's call them something else. Fine. I have no
problem or rose buying any other name, call it whatever
you want to call, whatever you think is going to be,
make it more publicly palatable. I think that's fine, But
I think he meant to start this conversation regarding what
(28:18):
do we need to do. And it is not a
little problem. It's not a problem where you know your
local councilman can just sign something into being and fix everything.
This is a huge problem that affects all of us.
Whether you have somebody who's been through the mental health
system or not. It affects you because you can't walk
(28:38):
down the street. It's because you know you're affected by
people who have no place to go, homeless as much
as anybody else. And it's heartbreaking to see a lot
of these people. And we can fix this if we
put our mind to it. And I think that President
Trump tosses things out there to start cushions, to start
(29:01):
people thinking about what they can do to help. And
in this particular case, I think when he says let's
open these sant Assance because we can't have crazy people
walking around, that's the Donald Trump way of saying we
need to focus our attention on the mental health system,
and in my view, reopening the state hospitals which were
closed in the seventies and eighties. Is a first step
(29:25):
toward focusing our attention on fixing the whole system, one
step at a time. But you start with there, and
then you do the legislation that you need to support it,
and then if we all focus on it, don't you
think we could get it done? Tommy in West Virginia,
welcome to WRKO.
Speaker 6 (29:42):
How are you, Tommy, I'm very well this morning. I
grew up in Foxboro, and I do remember in the
mid seventies do Cacus closing down the Foxboro State Hospital,
and that was on the corner of Payson Road and
Chestnut Street, and they used to be, what my grandfather
(30:06):
told me, a farm on the corner of Chestnut Street
and Baker Street, big open field, and they had mentally
ill patients that were capable of working a garden doing
that during the summer months. And I also worked at
the Lafayette House during my high school years as a dishwasher.
(30:30):
I wasn't one of those white kids that was fortunate
enough to have so called white privilege. I had to
work washing dishes making minimum wage back then, like many
kids I grew up with. And there were men that
were mentally ill, that were capable of showing up to
work every day doing kitchen type help. And I never
(30:54):
felt threatened being around them or any stigma, and they
were just guys that you know, or whatever reason. Life
had not been kind to them as far as mentally developing.
But in my observation back then, it gave these men
a sense of purpose. And some geniuses at Boston University
(31:17):
had to make a movie called Titticut Follies back in
the sixties of where this was filmed in the town
of Bridgewater with the mentally insane back then, and it
started this reformer movement of well intended, highly educated white
liberals who just know everything. And then it was probably
(31:38):
when I started living in Boston around nineteen seventy eight
that fall that I started seeing really odd people living
on the streets of Boston going to the bathroom. There
was one guy who used to call Mayor White because
he was bald and he combed his air over like
the mayor at that time that I remember him using
(31:59):
the corner of me to have in Newbury Street as
a men's room, so to speak, and that I started
seeing more and more of that, and those are the
people that highly educated white liberals back then thought, oh,
we can just put them in halfway houses and they
won't be cooped up like prisoners. Well that's when we
(32:20):
started hearing the term in the language of lexicon homelessness.
It was another gnome chompskyist type term back then of
people who couldn't afford a house. Well, when I grew up,
I never witnessed anyone in Foxborough, Massachusetts, or Mansfield the
(32:42):
surrounding town that was homeless. There are now homeless people
living in those pounds. Not a whole lot, but I
certainly see it at mass in cass and other parts
of Boston. And at some point, progress have progressive thought
has to realize that, you know, some of the things
(33:05):
that we thought were well intended just backfire. There were
unintended consequences. And Trump is right, we need to reopen
mental institutions. And there are some people that you know,
I live in Brockton, and Brockton is about to elect
their first Cape Verdian mayor. He's a very good guy
(33:26):
and I had a conversation with him and he said,
what he's going to do with the homeless in Brockton.
There's many people there that are mentally ill, and there
are some people there that are addicted to drugs. But
he's going to give them two choices. You either go
into the shelters and get help, or we're going to
arrest you. And I said, you realize the ACLU is
(33:49):
going to pay you a visit. And he said, I
don't care about the acl you, He said, I care
about getting Brockden back to where it once was, which
was a business hub, business center. And I totally agree
with him.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Well, that's President Tommy for the homeless in Washington, d C.
That's what they've been doing. Either we can put you
in a shelter or we can put you in jail.
And that's what they've been doing in DC for the
past few.
Speaker 6 (34:17):
Weeks here here. And you know, like I say, there's
some people that really do I don't know the legalities
of it, but there are some people that at some
point a judge has to realize, you know something, this
person is incapable of taking taking care of themselves. And
(34:42):
for the greater good of this country, we need to
start putting people like that away in institutions. And it's
warehousing people is basically what it comes down to. But
at some point you just can't have some person that
schizophrenic that decides to go and push a little old
lady in front of a subway train at the last minute.
(35:02):
That's not helping out the rest of society. And like
I said, I hope Bill from Sudbury will call in
and tell me where I am incorrect on my point
of view on this. And I hope some other fool
up there on the North Shore calls up and said, well,
that guy from West Virginia and who grew up in
(35:24):
Foxborough is just obviously a mean spirited person. And like
I said, I remember growing up as a kid not
seeing homeless people living on the streets, and that included Boston.
Back then, you could go to Downtown Crossing and you
would not see bums sleeping on the streets or heroin
(35:48):
addicts sleeping on the streets of Downtown Crossing. Now it's everywhere,
and at some point we have to clean this up.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Well, tell me.
Speaker 6 (35:58):
Anyway, I don't say.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
I don't think you're mean spirited at all. So and
I understand there has to be a way of helping everybody,
And I don't think it's mean spirited to say go
to jail or to or go to the shelter, because
you're you're basically doing the same thing that that halfway
(36:22):
house was doing to that earlier callers sister in law
saying you can take your meds and you can live here,
or you can not take your meds and not live here.
That's basically the same option that that gives the homeless
people who have a myriad of problems as to why
they're homeless. I mean, it could be addiction, it could
be mental illness, it could be both, it could be
(36:42):
just down on your luck circumstances. Either way, no matter
what the issue is, there is more help and there's
more salvation at the shelter. And that's all it's meant
to do. It's not meant to be mean to the homeless.
It's meant to say, we can help you, but you've
got to help us first and come this way and
will do what we can to help you. And I
(37:02):
think that's the first step. They have to want to
be helped, and that's how you decide somebody wants to
be helped. Now, I can't imagine people would rather pick jail,
but maybe they will, in which case they're still off
the street, and they are they're in government housing, and
from there, maybe you've got to figure out what the
right transition is to get them out of there and
into a place where they can be helped, either through
(37:26):
hospitalization or a rehabilitation. I'm not sure what the answer is,
and it's going to be a very idiosyncratic process for
that particular person. But I don't think it's mean spirited
to put that there. I don't think the I think
the whole part of this is to make people aware
of what programs are available, and I think a really
big part of what the President is planning on doing
(37:48):
is reopening these hospitals. I don't view it as warehousing people.
I view it as protecting people who can't protect themselves
and who may be dangerous to themselves or you know,
dangerous to other people. The street is no place for them,
you know, first of all, you know, the animal instincts
come out in regard to survival, and if they have
(38:11):
no judgment to begin with due to mental illness, that's
when they hurt themselves and other people, and crime, crime
starts to have no meaning for them because all they're
thinking about is survival. And that's why you have these
horrific crime statistics in a lot of cities where people
are just trying to survive and don't know how to
do it elsewhere because they don't have the wherewithal to
(38:33):
figure out that they need help. And that's what the
that's what the hospitals will do. I know, on the
face of it, it sounds like putting people in hospitals
is a drastic, mean thing to do, and Tommy just
pointed that out, and thank you for the call, Tommy,
But I think it really it's kind of like people
(38:55):
are gonna laugh at me for using this. It's kind
of like tough love essentially. It's it's knowing that these
people will have a better existence in a hospital situation.
And gone are the days of changing people up and
having lobotomies. And one flew over the cuckoo's nest. That
was what it was at one point in time. It
isn't what it is anymore.
This is Sandy Shack sitting in for Jeff Cooner here
on the Kooner Report. We're talking about the demise of
the state mental hospitals, which President Trump wants to bring
him back. And before the break we were speaking with
Dave and Vermont, who I believe. Dave, tell me if
I if I'm saying's correctly. So you were talking about
a state sponsored farm prior to that that you used
(00:22):
to see growing up, and you were impressed by the
fact that the farm gave the people, the people who'd
been at the hospital or the school purpose and so
then the farm closed because somebody else was more was
was because their production was not as good as another farm.
Is that the deal?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I don't think that's so much a deal as the state.
It's like like any government organization. There was greed involved,
in corruption involved in mismanagement involved, and the wrong the
blame went to the wrong people and everything. But from
what I've seen, I mean, these people really need to
TELP and there wasn't the state facilities weren't really that
(01:08):
much existent back then, and the people weren't trained back
then because mental illness really wasn't that big of a
problem back then. Or I would say.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I would say, David, it wasn't as identifiable as it
is now. They didn't know what it was. I think
back then we've learned more and more about it as
we've evolved. I think there were mental illness, but it
wasn't identifiable. People didn't know that that's what it was.
I think in a lot of cases it was also
more hidden. You know, it used to be you know,
they used to put people mental illness was basically in
(01:43):
regard to other illnesses, was in the backyard, and I
think now it's on the front porch. So I think
that's one of the differences why it made it a
peer that it wasn't as big a problem back then.
I think it was we just didn't know that's what
it was. I think that's part of it. I mean,
you don't have to agree it did.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Back back then was kind of like in the backwoods.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, And there was a.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Lot of farm fields and everything, and it was a
very calmer, peaceful type of life. You didn't have horns
blaring all the time. They were on farms, real real
working farms. They got wood. They like I said, they grew,
they grew crops, They had girry, they had beef, they
had we put up silo. I remember silos and chopping
(02:27):
corn and uh drinking some of the white lightning coming
off the bottom of the silos and uh yeah. But
I remember working with some of these people, watching the
crafts that they did and everything, and it was it
was actually it was a place for them to be
where they really were didn't seem like that. Maybe I
(02:49):
don't know what went on behind the scenes, but they
all had a smile on their face and they were
talking happy when they would greet you, and.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
They they were contribute. They had a place to contribute, is.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
What you're saying, exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I think that goes a long way for people to
feel like they have a purpose, that they have that
they can contribute to their environment. Is very very important,
and I think that a lot of that was lost
when the asylums, the mental hospital state mental hospitals were
closed and people were just basically ejected. They were essentially
just they opened the door and said here, have a
(03:26):
good life and kicked people out who had nowhere to go.
And not only did they lose their home, but they
lost as you were saying, they lost their the means
by which they could contribute. They lost the means by
which they could feel that they could function on any level,
because you know, they went from from not having to
worry about a roof over their head and their medication
(03:49):
and food to now worrying about survival. And that's a
whole different environment that requires that that turns some people
into animalistic or brings out the animalistic tendencies. And I think,
you know, it only makes somebody who has teetering on
the brink worse. And I think it contributed to the
(04:12):
level of criminal insanity rising. But thank you so much
for the call, Dave. I appreciate it very much. President
Trump says, one of the answers to crime on the
streets is let's reopen the state mental facilities because that
were closed decades ago because these people had nowhere to
go but on the street, and it made them worse,
It made the streets worse. And isn't it more humane
(04:34):
to open those hospitals and to help those people than
to just let them room free. Carrie in Franklin, Welcome
to WRKO. How are you Carrie?
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Hello? Hi?
Speaker 4 (04:49):
Hi you still there?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Oh okay, Yeah, I'm good. My name is Carrie, and
I'm calling about a situation in my family, and there
was a solution there. She was my sister in law
a long time ago. She was diagnosed with schizophrenia. She
was nineteen, so therefore she was an adult and she
(05:12):
had rights. So she was on the street and we
couldn't get her off the street and she was getting
into trouble and getting hurt. So her parents went to
court and they were able to get legal guardianship. I
don't know exactly how that works, but that's what they did.
And they were able to, you know, make her go
(05:33):
to a place where she could be taken care of.
Because she wouldn't take her meds and she didn't take
her met she's kind of had to control. So they
got her into a halfway house and I was probably
twenty years ago. She's still there and she's doing great.
And one of the stipulations was you can stay here,
(05:53):
but you have to take your meds. If you don't
take your meds, you have to go somewhere else, and
you may not like it there.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
So so she made friends, she has a part time
job and as long as she takes a mitch, she's fine.
See that that was the only way that we could
do that.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, well, that's what those houses are for for people
like your sister in law. I mean, that's what it's for.
It's not for the criminally insane. But the problem is
when they when they closed the hospitals, there was nowhere
else for those people to go, and so they got
lumped in with people like your sister in law who
could be helped. And these are people that you know.
(06:32):
Saying to them, take your medsor you have to move
someplace else means nothing. They that doesn't help them. So
that's that's a wonderful story. I'm so glad that that happened,
and and see it does I think we really need
And I'm so grateful that her parents were able to
get a guardianship and a guardian adled them for her.
But that's not usually what I hear. I hear that
(06:55):
people weren't able to do that. So I think we
need to find a way to talk to our legislators
about putting something in place. This is Sandy Shack sitting
in for Jeff Khoner here on the Kooner Report, and
we're talking about President Trump's idea to reopen state mental
hospitals to get the criminally insane off the streets. Is
this a first necessary step to fixing our broken mental
(07:19):
health system and cleaning up our streets all at the
same time. On the text line nine seven eight says
Governor du Kaka has closed all of the mental state
hospitals or state mental hospitals in the seventies or so
to get us where we are today on purpose. We
have plans to open them up, get them back on
track to become a productive member of society. Otherwise they'll
(07:42):
be institutionalized unfortunately, but still taken care of. I agree,
So it's I understand that they're not that. They weren't,
you know, paradise on earth here, But those people were
taken care of. They had a roof over, they had
they were fed, they were medicated, they got help, they
(08:05):
were safe relatively speaking, and none of that. All that
went out the window when they were forced out onto
the streets was their abuse.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Do we need to put safeguard into place so that
doesn't happen again?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Are we better at that than we used to be? Absolutely?
Are there better medications, better treatment now? Absolutely? Will this
help the whole system by taking pressure off the interim
level care units that cannot handle the criminally insane and
allow them to focus on the people they can help. Yes, absolutely,
(08:39):
I don't see a downside to opening the reopening the
state facilities, do you. I guess that's my question for you.
Let's go to Rick in Cambridge. Rick, Welcome to WRKO.
How are you.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Good morning? Great topic. I commend you on your staff
or somehow coming up with this up. One of the
things that I heard a previous call I say, was
forced medication. In my opinion, you can't help someone that
doesn't want to help themselves. Alcohol, drugs, mental illness. Some
(09:17):
some people have all free. Now being a you know,
I hate to say it, as a veteran, I was,
you know, misdiagnosed and I was. I mean, I've been
through the mill myself, and it's just now you get
to know, I'm a little better now.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
You know.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
I don't count your age to her hats But anyway,
you know, you go to life and you do all
these things, but you get to look at someone. In
my opinion, you know the underlying causes, you know, And
I used to dread going to my VA doctor and say,
can you tell me about your childhood and a violent
and I said, they're not sitting here with you today.
(09:57):
I am, you know, and it brings up these memories
and this and that whatever may have happened. And there
are multiple causes in art different you know, everybody has
a horror story, not everybody, but you know, one uh
differential is you know, it's compounded if you're doing if
you've got mental illness to begin with, and then you
(10:18):
go seek help and then they medicate you, and uh,
I mean and then you know, say, jeez, you know,
I mean, I've been The VA used to be notorious
for dispensing certain pharmaceuticals and listening that and a number
one time I went to the pharmacy and the guy
gave me this and they gaming and I'd be coming
(10:38):
outside the door at the VA and hey, what do
you got? What do you got? What do you And
I say, not that you let me out of here.
But anyway, you know, if somebody needs help, you can't
help someone that doesn't want it. But maybe they get
to the point in their life where they're not capable
of making a decision like that. Another thing that I
think is important is they has to be trained to
(11:03):
deal with. You know, these you're going to get people
from all aspects of life. You're going to get this
guy and that girl, and you know, and you know
then when they wind up on the streets, you know
they get God forbid. You know, you look at mounts
and casts, you know, the holes and any these young ladies,
God bless them if they can make it. You know,
(11:25):
they hook up with these individuals and they got one
thing on their minds. You know, what's what's in it
for me? Blah blah blah, how can I make money?
Blah blah blah. And you know, and one of the
things you remember years ago when the pharmaceutical companies, We're
going to the doctors and offering them these huge benefits
(11:46):
of you know, prescribe this drug, prescribe that drug. And
it's just like, oh wow. And these are people, you know,
with education and they're running this and I think you know,
what's the phrase in that movie to tell about avengeance. Yeah,
and uh, once you go to a facility, if you
don't have the proper health insurance. You know, I used to.
(12:09):
I worked for the City of Cambridge. I had the
VA benefits and anywhere, you know, at some certain points.
You know, I struggle with alcoholism and I still do.
You know, every days of battle, you know, and that's
thet you know, you got to remember, you know, the individual.
And there's so many as they call primary secondary underlying cars.
(12:31):
Oh my god. I can go on and on, but uh,
you know the best thing to do is to have
qualified people to deal with. Like as you said earlier,
I think about teaching the car the kids that are
going to college, you know, I think actually they have to, uh,
if they go to a medical profession, they have to
take certain aspects. One of them is drinking, drug and
(12:53):
mental illness and this and that and depending on what
field they go. But uh, it's it's a it's a
you know, it's just it's kind of like air. I
always have a good outlook and see, you know, there's
a right at the in the ternel. Yeah what I
used to say, I hope it's not the train. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Well, I think what you're talking about in regard to
the hospitals and a lot of things being dependent upon insurance,
I think if you reopen the state hospitals, they're not
as dependent upon insurance. So I think that would alleviate
one of those problems. There's one thing that I kind
of disagree with you on, and that was when you're
talking about you can't force somebody to take meds. I
(13:33):
agree you can't force somebody to take meds in the
long term, but you know, the medication thing is a
catch twenty two situation. If you don't take it, you
won't be well enough to know that you need to
take it. So it's a it's an unpleasant kind of
thing that falls back in on itself. I think if
you can get somebody, if you can get them to
take the meds initially, and maybe so the first time
(13:57):
or two they take the meds it's not voluntary, but
maybe that helps them enough so they can make up
they can now discern that it's in their best interests
and then start voluntarily taking it, or get them to
the point where they understand the incentive behind taking it.
Like the caller who was talking about, you know, her
sister in law. They told her basically, if you don't
(14:19):
take your medags, you can't stay here, and here's a
pretty nice place to stay. That was an incentive, and
she was in a place where she could weigh the
options and understand it. That it was in her best interests,
and I think maybe that's I agree with you. For
long term. You can't make somebody take their meds if
they don't want to, if they don't want to be there.
But I think you can initially. And so I don't
(14:41):
know if you agree with that or not, Rick.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
To a certain extent, but the individual, if they have
enough marbles to make the decision. Yeah, I don't mean
to put out right.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
No, but I understand what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Yeah, it's yeah. And you know if I mean, life
is too shot, right, two persons I've been I have.
I have a big problem just getting into an appointment
with Social Security. And when I finally get in there
one day, I looked around and between the people with
mental illness and the people who couldn't speak English. That's
for another day, but it's like I just walked out,
(15:14):
and Uh, it's just a situation where you know, better
days are common. You ever have to have a good outlook,
and there's the sport and help is there if you
have the mental capabilities to make that decision, because somedays
they'll become a point where you are not capable of
making that decision, and you have to be put in
a walk word which happened to happen to me. And
(15:36):
I said to myself, I said, you got to be
kidney here I am. I got an honorable b rategy
fought from my country. And uh I heard it, you
know many many years ago, you know, freedom a free
and I used to sit and uh I got committed
by a judge. I went to some program called Spikeer
of this and that, and I said, holy cow, what
did I do?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
You know?
Speaker 3 (15:58):
And uh now, I'll tell you just one of my
personal So. I know it sounds crazy because no one
is legal now, but that's the gateway, the key in
my opinion. Many people don't agree, but yeah, it starts
with that, and then you try this, then you try this,
you talk about it. Geez. Yeah, But anyway, I'll let
(16:21):
you go. I know you've got a lot of callers
or not a good subject and you get a great staff.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Thank you so much, Rick, I appreciate your call. And
I'm so you sound like you're doing pretty well now.
So I'm very happy for you that it all turned
out all right. And it sounds like even though it
was a excuse me and arduous and probably frightening proposition.
Being committed seems to have put you on a track
to success eventually, and because that's where it sounds like
(16:47):
you are right now, so thank you so much for
the call. I think more people deserve that opportunity to
get the help that they need and possibly get back
on the road to to being productive members of society,
to being able to live their own lives in peace
and with the people around them, like Rick is, like
(17:08):
our earlier caller. Sister in law was at the halfway House,
where she's been for twenty years. And I think the
first step to that is reopening the state mental hospitals
to get people help who may not recognize that they
needed themselves, and to take the pressure off the less
severe programs that are helping or the programs that are
helping people with a less severe issue, because right now
(17:31):
they're overwhelmed, and they're overwhelmed with people who should not
be there, who maybe would be better off in the
state mental facilities. So I know it has stigma attached
to it, and I know it has stigma in regard
to one flew over the Cuckoo's Nest and a place
of abuse, but it doesn't have to be that we
haven't we learned enough, haven't we evolved enough to make
it to make them better places this time around. I
(17:52):
think President Trump is on the right track with this idea.
Do you The number is six one seven two six
six sixty eight sixty eight. We're talking about reopening state
mental hospitals because President Trump gave a print interview to
the Daily Caller during which he said, we need to
open up our asylums again to get the criminally insane
(18:16):
off the straight street. This is all part of his
broader approach to combating crime. And you can't argue with
the success in DC implementing his policies regarding fighting crime.
And so I'm wondering, is this also a successful policy?
Do you think that this would serve its purpose and
help the criminally insane as well as alleviate stress and
(18:37):
pressure on interim programs before you get to the state
institutional level. The text number seven zero four seven zero
two seven says Sandy, Massachusetts doing the same thing to
the intellectually disabled community closing the long term residential treatment facilities.
The problem of homelessness is going to get a lot worse. Also,
(19:00):
the community halfway houses are likely facing another issue those
with intellectual disability face. The workers are not well trained,
and they are usually illegal immigrants. Those with temporary protected
status these homes in the community get no state oversight.
The Boston Globe has written about the abuse faced by
the disabled clients in these homes. I'm sure it happens
(19:21):
to the mentally ill as well. They would all be
safer and receive proper treatment in institutional settings. I have
firsthand knowledge of what you're talking about in regard to
the disabled community, and I completely agree with your assessment
of what's happening there. But the problem with the disabled
community is the same as with the mental ill mentally
(19:42):
ill community, and that is you have different gradations going
on here, one of which is, you know, you have
people who are so profoundly disabled that they really can't
take care of themselves and do a benefit from an
institutional environment. And you have people who are less disabled
or less profoundly disabled and can function outside with a
(20:05):
little assist And so again, I think if you have
institutionalized accommodations available, that you take the pressure off those
houses that are not equipped to deal with the more
profoundly disabled or the more profoundly mentally ill, and therefore
(20:26):
they can hire more better trained people, they can focus
more on those clients that can really benefit from being
in that environment instead of those that are just being
warehoused in that environment. I think it's a win win
for everybody. Do you agree. Let's go to Heather in Maine. Heather,
Welcome to WRKO. How are you, Heather?
Speaker 5 (20:45):
Good morning, Sandy. I'm doing great. How are you?
Speaker 1 (20:48):
I'm fine. So do you think this is a good
idea to reopen the mental hospitals?
Speaker 5 (20:54):
I do think on different levels. First off, I wish
Jeff my best. So growing up in the eighties, my
mother works at Hogan Regional when Danvers State Hospital was closing,
thank God, because she used to tell me about the
people they are being chained, having loblotomies, just crazy stuff happening.
(21:17):
So she worked at the greenhouse with the clients and
they would grow vegetables and flowers and sell them. And
so I really appreciate the earlier crawler talking about the
farms and we on your purpose in life, and I
think that's like as much as we can. I think
that's what we should aim to do with any level
(21:39):
of intellectual or mental disability. So my son works at
one of the intellectually disabled homes on the North Shore.
He's been doing it for a long time. I think
it's a great place for the people that he is
taking care of. But I too have run into things
(22:03):
as another family member where if you try to get
insurance coverage for mental health stuff, the insurance company will
deny it. So unless you are well off, that person's
going to fall through the cracks. And I think that's
where you see the people that are addicted to drugs
(22:23):
and are homeless. So I think personally the villain in
this entire story is the insurance companies. When you have
a psychiatrist recommending, you know, a treatment for somebody that
they know well, but then the insurance company has their
psychiatrists who they pay to deny these people coverage. It
(22:45):
is absolutely criminal. That's why they have the biggest buildings
in the world. They are corrupt. And I would say
that's where Trump needs to start.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Well, I honestly mean start, but I think he need
to pay attention to it. I agree with you. I
think also that sounds like something for Congress to get
involved in regard to passing legislation. Maybe setting up a
board that only has maybe one in maybe insurance people
have to bring in a doctor. Maybe their opinion of
(23:21):
their doctor only gets weighed thirty percent as opposed to
the primary care physician, which gets weighed, you know, seventy percent.
I mean, there are all sorts of ways you can
do that, but we need legislation to make that legal.
So I agree with you that that's one of the
top places that we need to focus our efforts on.
(23:41):
But don't you think opening the state asylums would also help,
because if it's a state asylum, insurance is not going
to be the issue. That they don't rely upon insurance
the same way private houses do or private facilities do.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
I do not like the name asylum, and I think
it's got negative oh yeah connotation. It's really outdated in
my opinion. I like that earlier kl of It said
it should be a wellness center.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Yeah, mental wellness center. I like very much. That's one
of my times I.
Speaker 5 (24:12):
Think that's great.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:13):
Yeah, And I think it should be tiered based on
ability and based on disability. I agree, And you know
the same thing with like the work programs, those should
all be tiered and that should all be teased out.
But that's going to take a lot of people and
a lot of money to do that. But I do
think an auncer prevention is worth a poun of care.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
I agree with you, and I think I think one
of the questions here is is fixing the mental health
system worth our time, effort, and tax money treasure? And
for me, the answer is a big, absolutely thumbs up.
I would rather see our money being spent on this,
(24:57):
our time and effort and energy being spent on on this,
then on detention centers for illegal immigrants that shouldn't be here.
I mean, that's finish. Let's finish what President Trump started
and then closed those down. We don't need to be
supporting those. We don't need to be sending uh the
cell phones and hotel rooms or or allowing illegal aliens
(25:21):
to have hotel rooms and free cell phones and free
clothes and free food, none of that. That can all
be spent on doing these mental wellness centers, as well
as various other programs along with You know, I love
the idea from the earlier color about you said all
billions of dollars went through you said to help people
(25:42):
in other countries. Why can't that money which exists be
funneled back into the mental health system here. So I mean,
I think that there are a lot of things that
tax money is wasted on, and a lot of things
don't need the support of the federal government. But I
think I think this is one of those things that does.
And if we put our mind to it, much like
(26:04):
we put our mind to the space program in the
sixties that was a national effort, if we make a
national effort in regard to mental wellness, I think we
could do something amazing that benefits everybody. It benefits the
people who are criminally insane, who, to be honest with you,
there probably is no hope for, but they will be
(26:25):
taken care of and they will be in a safe
place and be provided for. It will help the people
who are not criminally insane that still have the ability
to maybe get better and function on a level that
is maybe beyond where they are right now. That it
takes the pressure off of that. It takes the pressure
off the halfway houses where people who can really function
(26:47):
every day in life with just a little bit of assistance.
It takes the pressure off of people walking down the
street who are afraid they're going to be assaulted. There's
nobody who does not benefit from this. Do you think
I'm I'm painting to Rosie a picture, Heather.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
I totally agree with you. It all stats with mental health,
you know. I think your physical health stats with your
mental health. So you know, all of us could benefit
from more mental health and more yoga and more, you know,
just taking care of our souls. And I think it
absolutely would help society to bring all of these people up.
(27:27):
And I think I think that is a great policy.
I trust Trump and I do think it's a great idea.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Me too, Heather, absolutely positively. Thank you so much for calling.
I appreciate it very much. I think that President Trump
meant to start the conversation. He obviously did. It was
on his platform when he ran for president, and he's
been to bring back the insane asylums. And I know
that's a pejorative term, Heather, I know for everybody, but
that's the term that President Trump used, and so that's
(27:57):
why I'm using it, even though I actually agree with you.
It's pejorative. You want to take the stigma out of it,
so let's call them something else. Fine. I have no
problem or rose buying any other name, call it whatever
you want to call, whatever you think is going to be,
make it more publicly palatable. I think that's fine, But
I think he meant to start this conversation regarding what
(28:18):
do we need to do. And it is not a
little problem. It's not a problem where you know your
local councilman can just sign something into being and fix everything.
This is a huge problem that affects all of us.
Whether you have somebody who's been through the mental health
system or not. It affects you because you can't walk
(28:38):
down the street. It's because you know you're affected by
people who have no place to go, homeless as much
as anybody else. And it's heartbreaking to see a lot
of these people. And we can fix this if we
put our mind to it. And I think that President
Trump tosses things out there to start cushions, to start
(29:01):
people thinking about what they can do to help. And
in this particular case, I think when he says let's
open these sant Assance because we can't have crazy people
walking around, that's the Donald Trump way of saying we
need to focus our attention on the mental health system,
and in my view, reopening the state hospitals which were
closed in the seventies and eighties. Is a first step
(29:25):
toward focusing our attention on fixing the whole system, one
step at a time. But you start with there, and
then you do the legislation that you need to support it,
and then if we all focus on it, don't you
think we could get it done? Tommy in West Virginia,
welcome to WRKO.
Speaker 6 (29:42):
How are you, Tommy, I'm very well this morning. I
grew up in Foxboro, and I do remember in the
mid seventies do Cacus closing down the Foxboro State Hospital,
and that was on the corner of Payson Road and
Chestnut Street, and they used to be, what my grandfather
(30:06):
told me, a farm on the corner of Chestnut Street
and Baker Street, big open field, and they had mentally
ill patients that were capable of working a garden doing
that during the summer months. And I also worked at
the Lafayette House during my high school years as a dishwasher.
(30:30):
I wasn't one of those white kids that was fortunate
enough to have so called white privilege. I had to
work washing dishes making minimum wage back then, like many
kids I grew up with. And there were men that
were mentally ill, that were capable of showing up to
work every day doing kitchen type help. And I never
(30:54):
felt threatened being around them or any stigma, and they
were just guys that you know, or whatever reason. Life
had not been kind to them as far as mentally developing.
But in my observation back then, it gave these men
a sense of purpose. And some geniuses at Boston University
(31:17):
had to make a movie called Titticut Follies back in
the sixties of where this was filmed in the town
of Bridgewater with the mentally insane back then, and it
started this reformer movement of well intended, highly educated white
liberals who just know everything. And then it was probably
(31:38):
when I started living in Boston around nineteen seventy eight
that fall that I started seeing really odd people living
on the streets of Boston going to the bathroom. There
was one guy who used to call Mayor White because
he was bald and he combed his air over like
the mayor at that time that I remember him using
(31:59):
the corner of me to have in Newbury Street as
a men's room, so to speak, and that I started
seeing more and more of that, and those are the
people that highly educated white liberals back then thought, oh,
we can just put them in halfway houses and they
won't be cooped up like prisoners. Well that's when we
(32:20):
started hearing the term in the language of lexicon homelessness.
It was another gnome chompskyist type term back then of
people who couldn't afford a house. Well, when I grew up,
I never witnessed anyone in Foxborough, Massachusetts, or Mansfield the
(32:42):
surrounding town that was homeless. There are now homeless people
living in those pounds. Not a whole lot, but I
certainly see it at mass in cass and other parts
of Boston. And at some point, progress have progressive thought
has to realize that, you know, some of the things
(33:05):
that we thought were well intended just backfire. There were
unintended consequences. And Trump is right, we need to reopen
mental institutions. And there are some people that you know,
I live in Brockton, and Brockton is about to elect
their first Cape Verdian mayor. He's a very good guy
(33:26):
and I had a conversation with him and he said,
what he's going to do with the homeless in Brockton.
There's many people there that are mentally ill, and there
are some people there that are addicted to drugs. But
he's going to give them two choices. You either go
into the shelters and get help, or we're going to
arrest you. And I said, you realize the ACLU is
(33:49):
going to pay you a visit. And he said, I
don't care about the acl you, He said, I care
about getting Brockden back to where it once was, which
was a business hub, business center. And I totally agree
with him.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Well, that's President Tommy for the homeless in Washington, d C.
That's what they've been doing. Either we can put you
in a shelter or we can put you in jail.
And that's what they've been doing in DC for the
past few.
Speaker 6 (34:17):
Weeks here here. And you know, like I say, there's
some people that really do I don't know the legalities
of it, but there are some people that at some
point a judge has to realize, you know something, this
person is incapable of taking taking care of themselves. And
(34:42):
for the greater good of this country, we need to
start putting people like that away in institutions. And it's
warehousing people is basically what it comes down to. But
at some point you just can't have some person that
schizophrenic that decides to go and push a little old
lady in front of a subway train at the last minute.
(35:02):
That's not helping out the rest of society. And like
I said, I hope Bill from Sudbury will call in
and tell me where I am incorrect on my point
of view on this. And I hope some other fool
up there on the North Shore calls up and said, well,
that guy from West Virginia and who grew up in
(35:24):
Foxborough is just obviously a mean spirited person. And like
I said, I remember growing up as a kid not
seeing homeless people living on the streets, and that included Boston.
Back then, you could go to Downtown Crossing and you
would not see bums sleeping on the streets or heroin
(35:48):
addicts sleeping on the streets of Downtown Crossing. Now it's everywhere,
and at some point we have to clean this up.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Well, tell me.
Speaker 6 (35:58):
Anyway, I don't say.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
I don't think you're mean spirited at all. So and
I understand there has to be a way of helping everybody,
And I don't think it's mean spirited to say go
to jail or to or go to the shelter, because
you're you're basically doing the same thing that that halfway
(36:22):
house was doing to that earlier callers sister in law
saying you can take your meds and you can live here,
or you can not take your meds and not live here.
That's basically the same option that that gives the homeless
people who have a myriad of problems as to why
they're homeless. I mean, it could be addiction, it could
be mental illness, it could be both, it could be
(36:42):
just down on your luck circumstances. Either way, no matter
what the issue is, there is more help and there's
more salvation at the shelter. And that's all it's meant
to do. It's not meant to be mean to the homeless.
It's meant to say, we can help you, but you've
got to help us first and come this way and
will do what we can to help you. And I
(37:02):
think that's the first step. They have to want to
be helped, and that's how you decide somebody wants to
be helped. Now, I can't imagine people would rather pick jail,
but maybe they will, in which case they're still off
the street, and they are they're in government housing, and
from there, maybe you've got to figure out what the
right transition is to get them out of there and
into a place where they can be helped, either through
(37:26):
hospitalization or a rehabilitation. I'm not sure what the answer is,
and it's going to be a very idiosyncratic process for
that particular person. But I don't think it's mean spirited
to put that there. I don't think the I think
the whole part of this is to make people aware
of what programs are available, and I think a really
big part of what the President is planning on doing
(37:48):
is reopening these hospitals. I don't view it as warehousing people.
I view it as protecting people who can't protect themselves
and who may be dangerous to themselves or you know,
dangerous to other people. The street is no place for them,
you know, first of all, you know, the animal instincts
come out in regard to survival, and if they have
(38:11):
no judgment to begin with due to mental illness, that's
when they hurt themselves and other people, and crime, crime
starts to have no meaning for them because all they're
thinking about is survival. And that's why you have these
horrific crime statistics in a lot of cities where people
are just trying to survive and don't know how to
do it elsewhere because they don't have the wherewithal to
(38:33):
figure out that they need help. And that's what the
that's what the hospitals will do. I know, on the
face of it, it sounds like putting people in hospitals
is a drastic, mean thing to do, and Tommy just
pointed that out, and thank you for the call, Tommy,
But I think it really it's kind of like people
(38:55):
are gonna laugh at me for using this. It's kind
of like tough love essentially. It's it's knowing that these
people will have a better existence in a hospital situation.
And gone are the days of changing people up and
having lobotomies. And one flew over the cuckoo's nest. That
was what it was at one point in time. It
isn't what it is anymore.
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